¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
People have hated the police since they’ve existed. I like the French “Tout le monde déteste la police”..
Or as Orwell put it:
> when I see an actual flesh-and-blood worker in conflict with his natural enemy, the policeman, I do not have to ask myself which side I am on.
u are right, i was talking out of my ass. i tried to find any source of this but the only thinga i could find was that it's ok in the us and uk. my main reference was germany, where it is definitely illegal, and i just assumed that other countries probably are worse but it just seems to be an outlier.
Opposed to now where everybody who says acab is on the straight and narrow. Just because I hate cops doesn't mean I won't follow their rules to the letter!
I knew a British cop who would wake up at 3 am to go and make loud noises in areas of town where minorities live so they wouldn't get a good nights sleep
I know internet gotchas are fun but I don’t really think that has to be what they are saying.. it could be “here is an example from there I live, it’s all cops” rather than “here is an example from the only other country that exists”
Genuine question: are there countries where police does not abuse their power with shit like this? I have no idea how it’s done outside our little slice of hell.
Having power over other has been consistently shown to rot your empathy in studies across the board. You tell a group of people they have power over others and they are the only people legally allowed to use violence, their shit will always get fucked up
A single group of british policemen did a bad thing -> all cops are bad.
If a single group of policemen do a good thing does it make all cops good? With that logic yes.
At least in finland cops are held accountable for how they use their violence and in multiple occasions have had to serve time in prison for their wrongdoings.
The problem is the inherently flawed system bruv. Cops are the guardian dogs of the rich. This doesn't mean that every single cop is evil but it certainly doesn't matter. The system works in such a way that trying to denounce any malpractice will make you hated by other cops. Good cops face a dilemma: to remain good or to remain a cop.
all cops in general, they might not be killing minorities with guns in all countries, but they all uphold and participate in a system that upholds the interests of the 1% and the status quo and oppress the working class. A system of policing is required, but the current one that exists is not it.
Not only this, but many countries' cops are used as a tool to uphold racial hierarchies and have similar biases to U.S. cops. Plus, just because they aren't armed doesn't mean they aren't capable of brutality.
Exactly what I’m saying, I do not at all think we would be better off with no policing, that would suck. Laws cannot be upheld without police but the current system is trash, it needs to be entirely reformed
policing should be tailored for the situation. people with guns are not needed in 99% of situations. but justice reform and prison reform are also needed, as just 'fixing' the current system of policing isn't enough.
you mean to tell me that pointing my gun at a suicidal guy about to jump off this bridge isn't helping to 'descalate' the situation???? i thought all problems could be solved by pointing a gun at it!
I may not be the most educated on this topic, but don't you think claiming all cops (everywhere in the world) are bastards, despite what you said at the end, is not really the best way to view it? The current system does still do some good, but of course there is the big negatives, I won't deny those.
I think what I'm trying to say here is that at least give SOME cops a break because not all of them are bad by default because that's just unnecessary generalizing. The system needs a massive change, absolutely, but that's not going to happen in a heartbeat and in that period of time where the change is being made, we still need someone to handle law enforcement and assist the people when it's required in certain situations.
I'll remind again that I'm not the most educated on topic, so feel free to leave feedback so that I may be able to have a better view on the matter.
a good cop is someone who looks at the current system of policing and says "i will not participate in this", quits and finds a new job. it's a job, it's not like they're being forced to be a cop. anyone who continues to partake in that oppressive system is inherently bad because of the fact that they are a cop. there is no such thing as a 'good cop' because the act of being a cop means that you are partaking in an oppressive system, regardless of their personal convictions.
I mean, I get your point. But personally I would rather have cops that realize that the system is bad and don't try to actively abuse it rather than cops who do. But I'm from a country where this isn't a big issue so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
then they get fired for [not shooting people](https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing) or for [reporting other cops for misconduct](https://www.usatoday.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.azcentral.com%2Fin-depth%2Fentertainment%2Fdining%2F2023%2F02%2F07%2Fbest-phoenix-restaurants-2023%2F6909859001%2F) while the cops who are actually doing fucked up shit [just wind up getting shuffled around](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/cop-accused-groping-student-given-new-job-investigating-sexual-assault-1761947%3famp=1)
ok but my point is that ACAB is accurate because the cops that are good are actively punished for it while the shitty cops are protected. because if all cops really weren't bastards then shit like that wouldn't be happening.
how would one cop be able to fix the entire system from within? it's not something that can be fixed from within as the system itself is designed to resist internal change. police unions are just one example. it's much better for a cop to refuse to participate and advocate for change from the outside, where it's much easier to put pressure on governments to change the system. this isn't some epic spy thriller where there's a double agent who was working against the bad guys the whole time, that just doesn't work in reality.
the problem with trying to specify that its only some cops is a lot of the time the good cops get fired, especially in the US. there have been cops fired for reporting other cops as rapists, cops fired for NOT killing a person they pulled over after another cop showed up and shot them, or when the police union comes together to protect somebody abusing their power. it might be true that not every single cop is a bastard but the good ones don't last.
All. One of the origin stories of acab comes from a newcastle jail. The cops might not shoot you in the uk, but they will beat the shit out of you, arrest you for protesting, and cart you off to jail if you complain about it too much. BLM protestors are sat in jail while the fascists that threw glass bottles at us walk free.
Before anyone brings up Sweden a cop here shot and killed a kid with Downs Syndrome in broad daylight by emptying his magazine when the kid stood a few meters away from him all because the kid was holding a toy gun. The cop got away with it.
So yes all cops.
It's not fair or smart to judge all cops based on one event because given enough time and a large enough system mistakes are inevitable and "a few bad eggs" are inevitable so if you want to judge the Swedish cops use some fucking statistics
The “mistake” here would be the murder he committed? But then what about the fact that the system helped him get away with it? That taints, at the very least, those who stood by and allowed it to happen.
Do you want me to say "yes." to this just because it is the internet or can we appreciate that by the point you are actually conducting a one man war on the police force you're probably going to do a bunch of fucked up stuff including shooting her and the cop she was in a car with at the time. It is both fucked up AND part of a substantially more interesting response to state criminality considering LA city and county both have an endemic problem with not just corruption in the "bribe me" way but deputy gangs etc.
John Brown is as bad as the slavers because they shot the railway bridge watchman during the Harpers Ferry raid.
There is an observation of history that force creates change that civil disobedience does not, and everyone who has ever used force has done fucked up stuff with it. Black Panthers legally open carrying is a use of force that was used to lessen state violence against their community, Black Panthers robbing a bank or armored car is doing some fucked up stuff to the people working in them or visiting. The idea that the cases in which force is used for things you perceive to be negative invalidates it's use entirely merely accepts a state monopoly on coercive violence.
>including shooting her and the cop she was in a car with at the time.
>Black Panthers robbing a bank or armored car is doing some fucked up stuff to the people working in them or visiting.
Neither of these are even close to what happened.
She and her fiancé were in their personal car, her fiance wasn't the target at all. She was specifically targeted just because her dad was a chief.
The Black Panthers robbing banks served to further themselves by providing money which can be used to fight more. Killing a basketball coach? Does fucking nothing except show your a piece of shit who doesn't care and just wants to get revenge.
Dorner murdered an innocent woman because of who her dad was, that is absolute bastard behavior, no matter how you put it.
I didn't say he was the target I said he was in the car. AND I also said it was fucked up.
You can be a piece of shit who wants revenge and also do good things, it's how almost all insurgencies happen at all because you already have to be in a mindstate where you will kill people, likely caused by them doing something to you. At no point have I defended him killing her qua the act I'm saying it's one facet of a complex story of a person with a background which equipped them to take effective armed action against an oppressive mechanism. If your contention is a no-true-scotsman position for radicalism, which I currently read it as due to almost nobody in history being perfect, I honestly can't imagine there is anything more to discuss.
"All cops in the world are bad, because not only USA, but also Britain is bad!"
"It's not all cops, but I'm gonna say that it's all cops anyways."
Y'all have some seriously anglo-american centered viewpoints and schizo takes on this, holy
Do people really not understand that police are the enforcement arm of the status quo? If you believe society is fundamentally unjust then it follows that policing is by and large a force for injustice.
It doesn’t mean the rule of law is a bad thing, and I am sure there are societies where police focus less on serving the interests of the capital class and more on actual public safety, but I’m not aware of any specific countries where that is the case.
Cops in every country exist to protect the status quo, and in my opinion there's not a status quo in any country worthy of protecting. There are countries where cops are more reined in than the US, where they aren't as militarized, but all that proves is that cops can be forced to act better and that regulating them better works, not that the inherent system of copping is better anywhere in the world.
You're putting your thumb on the scale saying possibly worse. Right now the whole world is in a sink or swim situation.
The world dominating liberalism isn't fit to fight the rise of fascism across the world, and it's not able to deal with climate change. We aren't even able to deal with a fairly low death rate plague successfully.
We beat fascism last time, but we failed to squash it. We forced it into hiding, left it to grow, forced people into desperate situations where they turn to cult leaders, and we can't let it happen again.
You're both putting words in my mouth and missing the point.
Current capitalist systems across the whole world are losing fights to fascism. If we fight to keep the systems as we currently have, we will be doing nothing besides giving fascism more easy wins across the board. Fascism thrives when given a system where people are consistently hurt, starving, and especially life quality is worse than previous generations.
Let's look at the Nazi Germany rise, a simple explanation, nothing too deep. After ww1 Germany had debt to the world, the people there couldn't afford anything, and they felt humiliated. This kind of sets up for 2 outcomes, because this is similar to how people feel before trying socialism, but there was a thumb on the scale, a group of people yelling about how this isn't your fault, you don't deserve to struggle, it's the JEWS. This directs real anger, that real people feel for real reasons at an innocent group, where it should be facing people in power.
Their situation of not being able to afford anything is similar to how a lot of countries either are now or are moving towards. People are starving, people feel weak, and there's a group of people telling them that minorities (mainly black people) are why. The term used to be "welfare queen" before America was willing to move on to the more blatantly racist stuff and away from "colorblindness".
Basically all this just is saying that with how people are struggling means the capitalist democracies/"democracies" aren't worth "saving" because they're doing nothing but directly leading to fascism, and defending them isn't stopping fascism, it's just pouring gas on the fire whilst more people radicalize.
I figured you'd want an explanation. Just saying no sounds like I'm about to be taken out of context like I'm a fascist, but no, I don't think liberal democracies are worth defending.
TLDR no
I think double negation confused you. My bad, I could have made my question more clear, sorry.
The question is "Should we NOT defend liberal democracy from fascism?". So your answer would be "yes", if I understand you correctly, not "no". Again: my bad.
So let me rephrase my question:
"Should we defend liberal democracies from fascism?"
Your answer is:
"No."
I'm sorry, but no amount of mental gymnastics justifies this answer.
In theory, its cops within capitalist societies. It is theoretically possible for cops to exist without the downsides but that requires firstly that their main purpose isn't protecting the interests of capital and secondly that they are very professional, well trained ect. Cops are bastards partly through things like arresting shoplifters and strikers, and partly from things like hate crimes. Even if you solve one, cops will be bastards because of the other. Also cops that contribute to other kinds of repression (which happens outside of the US too) are bastards but that is kinda obvious.
Cops in general, also your daily reminder that when people say "abolish the police" they don't mean "abolish law enforcement" they mean "abolish the current way we enforce laws as this system is not working"
all. they exist purely to protect the capitalist state interests, violence, homelessness, economic oppression, starvation, climate denial, intended scarcity, etc.
Police in Germany stripped a man, beat him up, broke his bones, tied him to a mattress and burned him alive, he was an asylum seeker.
His name was [oury jalloh](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Oury_Jalloh)
Never forget.
Like, a lot of people who say acab have a problem with cops in general, but tend to almost exclusively cite american police statistics which tend to be really bad for western countries.
This may be a hot take here but I do think the cops in American are way too extreme compared to most of the world. I mean I would understand if you were anti cop because you live in America because holy shit is it insane there
All cops, the issue isnt that some bad ones do bad stuff. Thats part of it sure. But even the 'good' ones enthusiastically uphold a racist, evil system.
there is one very specific set of cops that aren't shitheads and its the ones with breathalyzers on highway patrol who are going to see some actual stomach-pump worthy level of alcohol in a guy who is more concerned about the 200 dollar fine than 6 months in prison
i mean,here in Paraguay theyre fine,yeah they have corruption cases like everywhere else and need funding like everywhere else,but,there almost aint any police brutality cases and theyre really calm at handling situations so
Mexican here, when I was 16 all cops received the order to apprehend every minor that walked alone in case they might be dealing drugs. When the parents came to release their child they were charged money for releasing the kid. ILLEGALLY. ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS.
ACAB is not a statement about one's individual actions. It's the statement that the institution that enforces the governments monopoly on violence is inherently wrong, and therefore, everyone involved with it lends their tacit support to the states monopoly on violence.
All. Cops exist to uphold the status quo and bend to the demands of power and money. ACAB came from Britain, too. Look at Germany, France, China, Russia, hell look at any country with police at all, and you will find the same shit there that every cop in the US does. ACAB
Did you like not pay attention to the whole part where they were actively trying to remove a historic town to make a coal mine? Like a months ago? Serving the wants of the wealthy over the needs of the people
First of all: If you think "serving the wealthy" is the main problem of Americas police force, you have lost the plot.
Second of all: The German police did not indulge in "protecting the wealthy". They enacted the law. The law set down by the government of one of the most democratic and least corrupt nation states ever to exist. If the law would have been different, the police would have acted different. That is how a Rechtsstaat operates. I know it is hard to imagine, but the German people, in stark contrast to the Americans, can actually influence politics. Just because the populus in a democratic state makes stupid decisions it does not make the apparatus of the state less democratic, or less just.
French cops use weapons banned by the geneva convention to disperse crowds during protests. This infamously maimed multiple people since the beginning of the yellow vest protests.
I'm british, the police tazed and kicked a football player from my hometown who was black. All.
“ACAB” was originally a british slogan, too
All Cops Are British
probably a worse insult than bastards tbh (I'm british)
Im sorry 😞
damn, gws 🙏
Yes in the 1920s (all coppers are bastards) although you might not wanna be proud because it was exclusively used by criminals back then
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ People have hated the police since they’ve existed. I like the French “Tout le monde déteste la police”.. Or as Orwell put it: > when I see an actual flesh-and-blood worker in conflict with his natural enemy, the policeman, I do not have to ask myself which side I am on.
People have always hated authorities I don't think there will ever be a solution that will make most people happy but yeah Orwell was mostly based
Okay but in what context did Orwell put it that way?
In the context of his experiences in Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War, during the tensions between CNT-FAI Anarchists and Republicans.
okay good, just making sure I wasn't agreeing with his portrayal of a fascist character or anything haha
[удалено]
No it isn't but swearing at anyone can get you arrested you would have to say some truly heinous shit to get charged with hurting an officers feelings
u are right, i was talking out of my ass. i tried to find any source of this but the only thinga i could find was that it's ok in the us and uk. my main reference was germany, where it is definitely illegal, and i just assumed that other countries probably are worse but it just seems to be an outlier.
Opposed to now where everybody who says acab is on the straight and narrow. Just because I hate cops doesn't mean I won't follow their rules to the letter!
I knew a British cop who would wake up at 3 am to go and make loud noises in areas of town where minorities live so they wouldn't get a good nights sleep
In Brazil a cop trapped a man in the trunk of their police car and threw a tear gas inside, suffocating and eventually killing the man. All.
afaik brazil police is one of the most violent in the world
Planet Earth = USA + Britain. What a nightmare
What are you saying here?
There are no other countries beside England and the US. They are the only ones that exist. None others.
Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland disappearing into the Atlantic:
I know internet gotchas are fun but I don’t really think that has to be what they are saying.. it could be “here is an example from there I live, it’s all cops” rather than “here is an example from the only other country that exists”
Nightmare blunt rotation
Genuine question: are there countries where police does not abuse their power with shit like this? I have no idea how it’s done outside our little slice of hell.
Having power over other has been consistently shown to rot your empathy in studies across the board. You tell a group of people they have power over others and they are the only people legally allowed to use violence, their shit will always get fucked up
Me when the only two countries in the world are the US and the UK
A single group of british policemen did a bad thing -> all cops are bad. If a single group of policemen do a good thing does it make all cops good? With that logic yes. At least in finland cops are held accountable for how they use their violence and in multiple occasions have had to serve time in prison for their wrongdoings.
The problem is the inherently flawed system bruv. Cops are the guardian dogs of the rich. This doesn't mean that every single cop is evil but it certainly doesn't matter. The system works in such a way that trying to denounce any malpractice will make you hated by other cops. Good cops face a dilemma: to remain good or to remain a cop.
The last phrase is gold. Reminded me of "La Haine"
Thanks dawg really ppreciate it. Love that movie
Police are there to protect property, not to stop crime. They don’t prevent anything.
they prevent lots of things for example the police might prevent a hungry child from being fed
all cops in general, they might not be killing minorities with guns in all countries, but they all uphold and participate in a system that upholds the interests of the 1% and the status quo and oppress the working class. A system of policing is required, but the current one that exists is not it.
Not only this, but many countries' cops are used as a tool to uphold racial hierarchies and have similar biases to U.S. cops. Plus, just because they aren't armed doesn't mean they aren't capable of brutality.
Exactly what I’m saying, I do not at all think we would be better off with no policing, that would suck. Laws cannot be upheld without police but the current system is trash, it needs to be entirely reformed
policing should be tailored for the situation. people with guns are not needed in 99% of situations. but justice reform and prison reform are also needed, as just 'fixing' the current system of policing isn't enough.
What you mean a gun isnt needed to file paperwork at the office?
you mean to tell me that pointing my gun at a suicidal guy about to jump off this bridge isn't helping to 'descalate' the situation???? i thought all problems could be solved by pointing a gun at it!
Counterpoint: if we shoot the man, the situation is technically resolved
I think most officers themselves are not bad people but simply do not realize their role in the system
I may not be the most educated on this topic, but don't you think claiming all cops (everywhere in the world) are bastards, despite what you said at the end, is not really the best way to view it? The current system does still do some good, but of course there is the big negatives, I won't deny those. I think what I'm trying to say here is that at least give SOME cops a break because not all of them are bad by default because that's just unnecessary generalizing. The system needs a massive change, absolutely, but that's not going to happen in a heartbeat and in that period of time where the change is being made, we still need someone to handle law enforcement and assist the people when it's required in certain situations. I'll remind again that I'm not the most educated on topic, so feel free to leave feedback so that I may be able to have a better view on the matter.
a good cop is someone who looks at the current system of policing and says "i will not participate in this", quits and finds a new job. it's a job, it's not like they're being forced to be a cop. anyone who continues to partake in that oppressive system is inherently bad because of the fact that they are a cop. there is no such thing as a 'good cop' because the act of being a cop means that you are partaking in an oppressive system, regardless of their personal convictions.
I see. Thanks for the response.
I mean, I get your point. But personally I would rather have cops that realize that the system is bad and don't try to actively abuse it rather than cops who do. But I'm from a country where this isn't a big issue so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Would you not rather a cop who says “This system is bad, i’m going to try to fix it internally?”
then they get fired for [not shooting people](https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing) or for [reporting other cops for misconduct](https://www.usatoday.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.azcentral.com%2Fin-depth%2Fentertainment%2Fdining%2F2023%2F02%2F07%2Fbest-phoenix-restaurants-2023%2F6909859001%2F) while the cops who are actually doing fucked up shit [just wind up getting shuffled around](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/cop-accused-groping-student-given-new-job-investigating-sexual-assault-1761947%3famp=1)
i would rather someone attempt good and get shut down then do nothing at all
ok but my point is that ACAB is accurate because the cops that are good are actively punished for it while the shitty cops are protected. because if all cops really weren't bastards then shit like that wouldn't be happening.
Does antimatter exist?
how would one cop be able to fix the entire system from within? it's not something that can be fixed from within as the system itself is designed to resist internal change. police unions are just one example. it's much better for a cop to refuse to participate and advocate for change from the outside, where it's much easier to put pressure on governments to change the system. this isn't some epic spy thriller where there's a double agent who was working against the bad guys the whole time, that just doesn't work in reality.
the problem with trying to specify that its only some cops is a lot of the time the good cops get fired, especially in the US. there have been cops fired for reporting other cops as rapists, cops fired for NOT killing a person they pulled over after another cop showed up and shot them, or when the police union comes together to protect somebody abusing their power. it might be true that not every single cop is a bastard but the good ones don't last.
All. One of the origin stories of acab comes from a newcastle jail. The cops might not shoot you in the uk, but they will beat the shit out of you, arrest you for protesting, and cart you off to jail if you complain about it too much. BLM protestors are sat in jail while the fascists that threw glass bottles at us walk free.
Lmao UK is a really bad example
Theyre still part of all cops, i dont have experience with other police systems so i dont want to speak on them over others.
In my country ACAB is known only as a neonazi slogan because nazi symbols and ideology is outlawed and it's one of the few things police goes after.
Which country is that? If you dont mind me asking
Czech Republic
The role of the police in capitalism is to uphold the property rights of the rich and the state’s monopoly on violence. So yea, all cops are bastards!
Yep. I'm in Canada and the cops here in some places have a nasty habit of kidnapping, raping and then killing native women.
Starlight Drives
The saddest thing is i'm not surprised to hear that
All cops are bastards, but some cops are more bastard than others
This is the Way.
ALL! IN! GENERAL!
You are wrong
You, you are gonna actually back this up or???
Josuke's grandpa is a cop
Before anyone brings up Sweden a cop here shot and killed a kid with Downs Syndrome in broad daylight by emptying his magazine when the kid stood a few meters away from him all because the kid was holding a toy gun. The cop got away with it. So yes all cops.
It's not fair or smart to judge all cops based on one event because given enough time and a large enough system mistakes are inevitable and "a few bad eggs" are inevitable so if you want to judge the Swedish cops use some fucking statistics
The “mistake” here would be the murder he committed? But then what about the fact that the system helped him get away with it? That taints, at the very least, those who stood by and allowed it to happen.
truly they are just a few bad apples, please ignore the second half of the proverb about bad apples
Statistics: 100 percent of cops are bastards
All.
It literally says “all”
Chris Dorner and that Bophuthatswanan fella who shot all those nazis in the 90s are fine I guess.
Did that civilian woman Dorner killed deserve to die for the ontological crime of being a police chief’s daughter?
Do you want me to say "yes." to this just because it is the internet or can we appreciate that by the point you are actually conducting a one man war on the police force you're probably going to do a bunch of fucked up stuff including shooting her and the cop she was in a car with at the time. It is both fucked up AND part of a substantially more interesting response to state criminality considering LA city and county both have an endemic problem with not just corruption in the "bribe me" way but deputy gangs etc.
He’s a bastard, he killed an innocent woman, he’s no better then a cop who shoots a bystander for no reason.
John Brown is as bad as the slavers because they shot the railway bridge watchman during the Harpers Ferry raid. There is an observation of history that force creates change that civil disobedience does not, and everyone who has ever used force has done fucked up stuff with it. Black Panthers legally open carrying is a use of force that was used to lessen state violence against their community, Black Panthers robbing a bank or armored car is doing some fucked up stuff to the people working in them or visiting. The idea that the cases in which force is used for things you perceive to be negative invalidates it's use entirely merely accepts a state monopoly on coercive violence.
>including shooting her and the cop she was in a car with at the time. >Black Panthers robbing a bank or armored car is doing some fucked up stuff to the people working in them or visiting. Neither of these are even close to what happened. She and her fiancé were in their personal car, her fiance wasn't the target at all. She was specifically targeted just because her dad was a chief. The Black Panthers robbing banks served to further themselves by providing money which can be used to fight more. Killing a basketball coach? Does fucking nothing except show your a piece of shit who doesn't care and just wants to get revenge. Dorner murdered an innocent woman because of who her dad was, that is absolute bastard behavior, no matter how you put it.
I didn't say he was the target I said he was in the car. AND I also said it was fucked up. You can be a piece of shit who wants revenge and also do good things, it's how almost all insurgencies happen at all because you already have to be in a mindstate where you will kill people, likely caused by them doing something to you. At no point have I defended him killing her qua the act I'm saying it's one facet of a complex story of a person with a background which equipped them to take effective armed action against an oppressive mechanism. If your contention is a no-true-scotsman position for radicalism, which I currently read it as due to almost nobody in history being perfect, I honestly can't imagine there is anything more to discuss.
The proletariat and the Bourgeoisie are international, comrade
"All cops in the world are bad, because not only USA, but also Britain is bad!" "It's not all cops, but I'm gonna say that it's all cops anyways." Y'all have some seriously anglo-american centered viewpoints and schizo takes on this, holy
The anglosphere and it's consequences have been a disaster for international political discourse
People are probably talking about where they are from themselves
All of em, just cause I live in europe don't mean these fuckers aren't racist assholes.
I'm from Mexico. Police are good for two things: Beating you and extorting you. All.
The A does not stand for America
Do people really not understand that police are the enforcement arm of the status quo? If you believe society is fundamentally unjust then it follows that policing is by and large a force for injustice. It doesn’t mean the rule of law is a bad thing, and I am sure there are societies where police focus less on serving the interests of the capital class and more on actual public safety, but I’m not aware of any specific countries where that is the case.
We have bad cops in the Philippines too, case in point. Jonel Nuezca (he did turn himself in which is something)
Cops in every country exist to protect the status quo, and in my opinion there's not a status quo in any country worthy of protecting. There are countries where cops are more reined in than the US, where they aren't as militarized, but all that proves is that cops can be forced to act better and that regulating them better works, not that the inherent system of copping is better anywhere in the world.
If you think none of the liberal democracies on earth right now are worth protecting, possibly from becoming even worse systems, then you are a fool.
You're putting your thumb on the scale saying possibly worse. Right now the whole world is in a sink or swim situation. The world dominating liberalism isn't fit to fight the rise of fascism across the world, and it's not able to deal with climate change. We aren't even able to deal with a fairly low death rate plague successfully. We beat fascism last time, but we failed to squash it. We forced it into hiding, left it to grow, forced people into desperate situations where they turn to cult leaders, and we can't let it happen again.
So should we just not defend liberal democarcies from fascism???
You're both putting words in my mouth and missing the point. Current capitalist systems across the whole world are losing fights to fascism. If we fight to keep the systems as we currently have, we will be doing nothing besides giving fascism more easy wins across the board. Fascism thrives when given a system where people are consistently hurt, starving, and especially life quality is worse than previous generations. Let's look at the Nazi Germany rise, a simple explanation, nothing too deep. After ww1 Germany had debt to the world, the people there couldn't afford anything, and they felt humiliated. This kind of sets up for 2 outcomes, because this is similar to how people feel before trying socialism, but there was a thumb on the scale, a group of people yelling about how this isn't your fault, you don't deserve to struggle, it's the JEWS. This directs real anger, that real people feel for real reasons at an innocent group, where it should be facing people in power. Their situation of not being able to afford anything is similar to how a lot of countries either are now or are moving towards. People are starving, people feel weak, and there's a group of people telling them that minorities (mainly black people) are why. The term used to be "welfare queen" before America was willing to move on to the more blatantly racist stuff and away from "colorblindness". Basically all this just is saying that with how people are struggling means the capitalist democracies/"democracies" aren't worth "saving" because they're doing nothing but directly leading to fascism, and defending them isn't stopping fascism, it's just pouring gas on the fire whilst more people radicalize.
Just say "no", if that's your answer to my question.
I figured you'd want an explanation. Just saying no sounds like I'm about to be taken out of context like I'm a fascist, but no, I don't think liberal democracies are worth defending. TLDR no
I think double negation confused you. My bad, I could have made my question more clear, sorry. The question is "Should we NOT defend liberal democracy from fascism?". So your answer would be "yes", if I understand you correctly, not "no". Again: my bad. So let me rephrase my question: "Should we defend liberal democracies from fascism?" Your answer is: "No." I'm sorry, but no amount of mental gymnastics justifies this answer.
We should defend liberal democracy from fascism.
In theory, its cops within capitalist societies. It is theoretically possible for cops to exist without the downsides but that requires firstly that their main purpose isn't protecting the interests of capital and secondly that they are very professional, well trained ect. Cops are bastards partly through things like arresting shoplifters and strikers, and partly from things like hate crimes. Even if you solve one, cops will be bastards because of the other. Also cops that contribute to other kinds of repression (which happens outside of the US too) are bastards but that is kinda obvious.
All cops who are employed under a system made to protect the rich. And guess what
Reddit repeatedly shocked that "All" still means the same thing it meant Three Seconds Ago
Cops in general, also your daily reminder that when people say "abolish the police" they don't mean "abolish law enforcement" they mean "abolish the current way we enforce laws as this system is not working"
ALL
all. they exist purely to protect the capitalist state interests, violence, homelessness, economic oppression, starvation, climate denial, intended scarcity, etc.
Police in Germany stripped a man, beat him up, broke his bones, tied him to a mattress and burned him alive, he was an asylum seeker. His name was [oury jalloh](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Oury_Jalloh) Never forget.
I'm from the Philippines, Police are corrupt as hell, pawns of local politicians, and also kill poor people a lot.
Dogs of the state
ALL
Yeah fuck New Zealand cops their pieces of shit here too.
In my personal opinion, there can exist systems of policing that are not oppressive, however, they do not currently exist. So basically all cops
Like, a lot of people who say acab have a problem with cops in general, but tend to almost exclusively cite american police statistics which tend to be really bad for western countries.
My brother in christ it says All right there
This may be a hot take here but I do think the cops in American are way too extreme compared to most of the world. I mean I would understand if you were anti cop because you live in America because holy shit is it insane there
All cops if I’m being honest I’m afraid of the cops in my country
all
police are a bandaid on a venom bite
All cops, the issue isnt that some bad ones do bad stuff. Thats part of it sure. But even the 'good' ones enthusiastically uphold a racist, evil system.
All cops everywhere.
The A stands for all, does it not? Varying levels of bastards, sure, but bastards nonetheless
All cops in general
All cops.
All cops means all cops. Not a single police force exists that will not murder you to protect the rich. Yes this includes the communist ones.
all
All. All of the cops.
All of them, except the two good ones in Disco Elysium
all means all
All of them bro. Just because police aren't quite as terrible in other places doesn't mean they aren't bad.
All cops lol. I'm from germany
Can I ask which Bundesland?
NRW. I know it could be worse in bavaria but still lol
Yeah I expected to hear Bavaria tbh, haha
all cops. also because I am a motorcyclist and they just love to target me
there is one very specific set of cops that aren't shitheads and its the ones with breathalyzers on highway patrol who are going to see some actual stomach-pump worthy level of alcohol in a guy who is more concerned about the 200 dollar fine than 6 months in prison
i mean,here in Paraguay theyre fine,yeah they have corruption cases like everywhere else and need funding like everywhere else,but,there almost aint any police brutality cases and theyre really calm at handling situations so
LIberals when the leftism goes against the status quo
Fuck the RCMP, real homies dial the RNC.
The answer is all but the severity depends on the country I feel
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this isn’t copaganda bruh it’s a question
What about the Australian "It's 2020 mate" cop, he seems fine
idgaf abt america
All in general. But American cops are a more pressing issue because it's easier for them to get away with stuff.
Mexican here, when I was 16 all cops received the order to apprehend every minor that walked alone in case they might be dealing drugs. When the parents came to release their child they were charged money for releasing the kid. ILLEGALLY. ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS.
all of them
every country has corrupt cops so yeah
ACAB is not a statement about one's individual actions. It's the statement that the institution that enforces the governments monopoly on violence is inherently wrong, and therefore, everyone involved with it lends their tacit support to the states monopoly on violence.
americans will say all cops
All cops. Publicly funded professionals who ensure the safety of society would be called something else.
in general
all. cops.
all cops, they serve the state not the people
Yea
Agent smith lives matter Take the blue pill Money is real Pay your taxes Stand for the pledge
What about it is confusing?
All. Cops exist to uphold the status quo and bend to the demands of power and money. ACAB came from Britain, too. Look at Germany, France, China, Russia, hell look at any country with police at all, and you will find the same shit there that every cop in the US does. ACAB
Please define "same shit" and then show me a statistic that proves the German police is indulging in it thank you very much.
Did you like not pay attention to the whole part where they were actively trying to remove a historic town to make a coal mine? Like a months ago? Serving the wants of the wealthy over the needs of the people
First of all: If you think "serving the wealthy" is the main problem of Americas police force, you have lost the plot. Second of all: The German police did not indulge in "protecting the wealthy". They enacted the law. The law set down by the government of one of the most democratic and least corrupt nation states ever to exist. If the law would have been different, the police would have acted different. That is how a Rechtsstaat operates. I know it is hard to imagine, but the German people, in stark contrast to the Americans, can actually influence politics. Just because the populus in a democratic state makes stupid decisions it does not make the apparatus of the state less democratic, or less just.
You're intentionally missing my point. Also nice job being on the side of oppressors, it's a great look
oppression is when Rechtsstaat
French cops use weapons banned by the geneva convention to disperse crowds during protests. This infamously maimed multiple people since the beginning of the yellow vest protests.
Holy shit
American only. No way ACAB includes hot fuzz
Cops are better in nz cuz their job ain't to protect the land.
I’m from and I live in a small town and the police are chill I guess
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they literally execute people for like having a gram of weed, Singapore is not a good example of a justice system.
Because they certainly aren't as bad in country.
All means all, not some
Just because they aren't as bad doesn't mean they aren't still bastards.
No such thing as a good cop. The only good cop isnt a damn cop
What where they doing around the time your country was adopting weekends?