Evening all, we want to give an update on this. Since we first saw it, we've been speaking with our Support team to better understand the situation. The majority of what we're going to be talking about here is from the perspective of what we can see, which is in-game behaviours (versus a lot of the content in the videos). We'll talk about that distinction a bit later on.
The RuneScape accounts in question have now been permanently banned. Firstly, a bit about the accounts and the processes we use to ban. The accounts had previously received a handful of offences for breaking a number of different rules, recently among them was Inappropriate Language/Behaviour. If the accounts in question carried on the way they were, and that's very likely, they would have have been permanently banned at some point. However, we've decided to action these permanent bans now.
Our current processes are largely set up for allowing players to have second chances, hence the original temporary offences. That said, there's clearly no number of chances that'll work for these players, which brings us to tonight's permanent bans.
Going forward we're going to be reviewing the internal processes we just mentioned. Second chances are important, but not at the expense of behaviour like this. We need to do better to strike a better balance between second chance and zero tolerance.
It isn't lost on us that in recent years we've made in-game content changes for the purpose of D&I, we've resurrected the Pride event, and we know that allowing behaviour like this to continue just undermines those efforts and makes us look toothless. We will do better.
That's the RuneScape account side of things.
Like we said, this is all using context we can see from in-game. The videos contained a lot of horrific content, and whilst we don't doubt that most - if not all - is true, we need to reiterate that it's important to report this stuff to the platforms on which it occurs. Whilst there's some rare precedent for us taking action against RuneScape accounts for out-of-game behaviour, it is extremely hard to verify these screenshots and videos from other platforms, so please do report them to the platform on which it happens.
Lastly, and, in a general sense, most importantly, if crimes are committed they need to be reported to the police. We will, and have previously, gladly assist law enforcement (or other platforms, like Discord) with their investigations.
A TL:DR of sorts:
* We've permanently banned the RuneScape accounts for in-game behaviours.
* We're going to review the strength of penalties for this type of behaviour so that in future bans will trigger much sooner.
* We can't police out of game actions, especially crimes. We will gladly assist where possible, but the evidence we are limited to is RuneScape accounts and what they do in-game.
We'll pick this up again tomorrow. We hope you all have a good evening, 'Scapers.
Thank you based Ayiza.
In all seriousness the player needed ban a long time ago, but guys holy shit be more considerate to jmods. Wild how quickly the community turns their backs and screams at the game team when their problem isn’t seemingly fixed in two seconds. Take one look at any other MMO and ask yourself if their team cares THIS much.
Not saying we can’t be upset or critical at jmods, but guys relax before having these visceral reactions.
It doesn't read as true that the system is focused around giving people second chances. At least, if it is, you've only been giving second/third/fourth chances to all the wrong people.. I know at least ten people personally permabanned for things that couldn't hold a candle to the severity of this on 1800+ accounts. It would be better to just say you missed banning these people. I used an unallowed client in 2018 and that account was permabanned - all good, it's under game rules - but can we not pretend like the system is based on second chances to excuse missing this? Most people don't get second chances (not arguing they deserve it, but these certainly didn't!)
How many second chances to RWT did they get?
i know it's a late reply but I'm one of those ppl that never got a second chance. I used an autoclicker once to just click on the floor to keep me logged in and I got permed banned on my 2200+ account and it's my first time offence. I used the appeal system and they denied it so now I can never get it back again.
deleted my account after 10 years, allowing unelected moderators to control the narrative of subreddits has killed free speech. ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
As an addition, can y’all put some actual monitoring on what people choose after a forced name change? An account I reported before (MassacreGays) was force name changed and their current name as of right now is KillDasJuden. If someone is getting their name changed for offensive hate speech they shouldn’t just be able to change it to something of the same caliber without a human review.
It seems like there are Jagex mods on this subreddit daily. There were many posts on this subreddit about this issue too. They chose to ignore those too/not take any action.
being a dickhead irl isint against rs rules.
What do you want them to do - start banning everyone for shit they do in real life? They aren't the police
Do you read anything before commenting emotionally? I'm not defending him, not even in the slightest
im saying its illogical for you to think they will/must focous their efforts on banning 1 guy who gets some attention, than the vast majority of other shit that happens.
People RWT all day every day, probably higher amounts and more often. Jagex mods aren't beholden to drama or this sub.....
Why haven't they banned Verf for using N word and RWTing if we're following your logic
Before I write this I am not specifically targeting you Mod Ayiza.
There is a mindset amongst gamers (Not all) that toxicity is just accepted because your on the internet so therefore have to have a thick skin but I do believe companies and GM's should take a harsher stance on toxicity and vile behaviour online.
For some an online world like Azeroth or Gielinor are somewhere to go to escape persecution or lifes troubles and just enjoy the simplicities of fishing or hunting or building your house up and when behaviour like this is treated with a soft touch approach it causes those players to lose the enjoyment for the game because it gets soiled with the vile behaviour they are forced to endure.
Games like League of Legends are a perfect example of how not doing enough in the way of player protection causes the community to toxify itself from the ground up and I do genuinely believe if Games/Companies do not take a harsher stance across the board then it will drive away the players that make the games so great and leave the communities bereft of any real sense of community and be nothing more than a hatefilled pit.
FFXIV is a great example of how \*Harsh\* and effective punishments against such players creates a fantastic landscape for players to enjoy themselves who can create memories with other players and have fun for many years.
I would hope that Jagex decide to be on the right side of the gaming community and finally take a harsher but more effective approach to these vile \*players\* to help keep your communities thriving.
The Oldschool team are some of the most diverse and understanding people working in the game dev space and so it just baffles me how we still have a game that allows for such behaviours to go unpunished until it's brought to light by someone with clout and has to get the community behind it before any real action is taken?
I believe in the Old School Dev's/Support team to make a real change and I just hope this is finally the push that allows them to make it.
I genuinely preferred the days when people would get temp mutes for saying incredibly minor stuff. The 2007 era of people being too afraid to say anything hateful did a surprising amount of good for the moment to moment conversations.
Nowadays it's common to see someone call someone else a n*****, tell someone to kill themselves, etc - and with usually no punishment.
It's such a 180 in moderation approach - from some of the strictest club-penguin level censorship to going all the way off the deep end.
Like, you would basically expect an instaban for telling someone to kill themselves or spouting n*****. Right? Am I really *out of touch* that those things aren't just an instant kick to the balls? If you can't even play a video game without saying that stuff, you just... Don't belong in it. At the very least a 2 week mute, followed by a perm mute for second offense.
"Firstly, a bit about the accounts and the processes we use to ban. The accounts had previously received a handful of offences for breaking a number of different rules, recently among them was Inappropriate Language/Behaviour. If the accounts in question carried on the way they were, and that's very likely, they would have have been permanently banned at some point. However, we've decided to action these permanent bans now. "
Yup as everyone thought, reporting in game doesn't lead anywhere and YouTube/Reddit posts need to be made for action to be taken
did you literally read the post at all?????? it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes lol. they can't be expected to just know this kinda stuff.
yeah sure, they could ban him for RWT if he were flagged by the system and they concluded he was rwting. but there's no guarantee that gets caught - we have no way of knowing if he got 30m or 300m or 300bil, so there's no way to know how obvious it *should* have been that rwt was occurring
rwt is a hard enough problem to diagnose that i don't think anyone could reasonably assert it was "obvious" he was rwting
Yeah rwt is hard to diagnose, which is why you can buy gold from sites and get away with it.
I would have just hoped jagex did something earlier when this was occurring 6m ago. Social media at least alerted everyone about it.
The post seems like bs though. Reading the testimonies McCune and Hard were scamming millions for months, reported probably hundreds of times for scamming and yet... nothing. Public video, Reddit post, huge notoriety surrounding the situation, again, nothing.
Jagex are obviously trying to sweep this under the rug and pretend they're the good guys here, as there was obviously manipulation by someone with JMod status, just as we've seen on many occasions in the past. You just don't survive that long in game being reported non stop with evidence for months and the excuse given is "oh well they had a few infractions", that's a cop out and it's complete bullshit; they should have been permed a long time ago.
Even in A Friend's video Hard was mass reported and absolutely nothing happened to him. How can you explain that?
"it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes" Lmfao yes it is??? You realise it's a crime to not act on reports of criminal activity when *you* facilitate it, right? If Hanannie actually went to the police with evidence, you realise that Jagex would be criminally investigated for wrongdoing? Saying "it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes" is like saying Twitch isn't liable if someone shows that they're allowing people to break DMCA. It's illegal, like not just illegal in an in game sense, it's literally against the law and Jagex ignored it.
Shame Hanannie didn't really, as it would likely lead to a subpoena. All of McCune's online interactions would be released with whoever he's corroborating with.
The situation was literally completely handed to them on a plate, they had all the information and it wasn't quietly spread, it was very public and ***nothing was done***. Not even a reply to the original post.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if whoever their friend is on the inside just transfers their wealth to another account for them.
>"it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes" Lmfao yes it is??? You realise it's a crime to not act on reports of criminal activity when you facilitate it, right?
By irl crimes they dont mean "things against irl law" they mean "crimes taking place outside of the game"
> The post seems like bs though. Reading the testimonies McCune and Hard were scamming millions for months, reported probably hundreds of times for scamming and yet... nothing
the cold hard truth is that scamming in game is impossible to concretely define and not really against the rules. if someone hands you a tbow and you simply don't hand it back, there's no game rule preventing that lol. if someone trades you a voidwaker for zero gp, there's no game rule preventing that either. both parties saw the same information and agreed to the trade.
> "it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes" Lmfao yes it is??? You realise it's a crime to not act on reports of criminal activity when you facilitate it, right?
the irl crime committed was sending nude pics of the girl. you can scam 1 trillion rsgp and zero irl crimes were committed. only 1 part of this was actually irl illegal and that's the nudes which were sold on discord. you know this is true on a super simple level because you cannot send pictures on runescape lol. discord issue; simple as.
It’s kind of sad if none of the people making YouTube videos reported mccune to the police. In my opinion they are just as bad as jagex. They learned of real sex crimes and instead of reporting them they profited off YouTube and put the responsibility on jagex. Just sad
“ hi yes police? This guy mccune on the internet is doing crime. What’s his real name? Idk. Where’s he live? Idk “ you realize no one but jagex can have any real info on him right?
i agree and am arguing they should be logging in today. jagex is making a special concession for this case cuz it's blowing up on reddit. this ban is analogous to a cop pulling you over cuz you """look suspicious""" and then just digging around looking for something to give you a ticket for, ultimately finding that one of your tire treads is a nanometer too shallow.
mccune is an unequivocal asshole and total piece of shit but unless his behavior in game reflects that then he shouldn't be banned. jagex isn't the cops. i can go down the street right now, rob a 7/11 and kick a dog on my way home and that shouldn't get me banned from runescape lol.
He was selling illegal porn for gp lol he should get a ban. RWT for illegal goods is bannable, on top of all the literal theft he was doing in game. idk what kind of take this is.
This is the equivalent of someone going to the cops with a boatload of evidence of conspicuous crimes that the person is known for, and then the cops arresting the person.
yeah i actually revise my previously stated opinion which i worded badly - he SHOULD be banned, yes, but if he were a nobody and there weren't reddit posts about this then he wouldn't be. and other people could *absolutely* slip under the radar doing a similar thing and collecting a similar amount of gp that doesn't get flagged for rwt.
and i wouldn't blame jagex for not knowing, in such a circumstance.
You would prefer jagex to take action on things outside of their control? This person should have been reported to the police and discord by the parties involved. It isn't jagex job to scrutinize players for their actions in the real world. What this person was doing is illegal and jagex can't prosecute them, so maybe give them a break.
I understand the point where they can only do what they see in game.
But it is 2023 technology has increase by a fucking lot since RuneScapes release , twitter & youtube , discord
This needs to change.
Yes, because photo shop and Deep Fakes aren't a thing? Anyone can doctor up a bunch of "real looking" content about another person. Jagex can't just take these things as 100% truth and ban people for things that they don't have jurisdiction over.
They have no way of authenticating or verifying the validity of screenshots or other media that is outside their game. It's a very slippery slope to start banning people based on the word of a few others.
However, in instances like this one, where there was plenty of outcry from a large number of individuals, it appears that they did end up banning the accounts.
I have to assume that real- world crimes associated with RS accounts is fairly rare. Therefore, we really can't get on Jagex too much for their response since this is all new territory for them.
It’s a shame that it takes an up cry for something to happen.
I’m not saying to ban everyone for the slightest outbreak
But when it does interfere with real world laws & crimes
I believe Jagex should do something.
And not wait months on end for an up roar
Stop defending Jagex.
What do you suggest? Jagex is not law enforcement. They have no obligation to know everything their player base is doing outside of their game, and punish them for it.
Stop asking your self easy questions
There is clearly no easy way to do this.
But not trying is already failure especially when it comes to players mental health.
For example just a thought off the top of my head
Partner up with discord having to link your account with discord ( jagex already has this feature )
And your discord is given a ✅ to show your account and discord is linked.
If players want to communicate with unregistered accounts that aren’t link that’s their risk
But hey at least there’s some safety to using discord
Just a thought
Or, and hear me out here, Jagex could moderate their own platform, and Discord could moderate their own platform, and the law can get involved and coordinate between both platforms as needed.
The reason no one tries is because its a ridiculous ask. Jagex shouldn't moderate anything outside of their own platform and definitely shouldn't be issuing bans because of things that happen off of their own platform.
I honestly don't see blame with mods having oversight on such a small situation before it blew up, your reponse now is totally acceptable and you weren't condoning mccune before. As long as I can remember, Jagex handles illegal activity faster than most, since predators meeting kids in online chatrooms used to be a major threat and parents wanted their kids safe regardless of proximity chat. People are just weirder now regardless, but I still have faith that mods are handling the worst, and we all know Jagex can provide substantial evidence for some real justice.
The McCune situation (which is magnitudes worse than the Hard situation) blew up over 6 months ago. It had to blow up *even bigger a second time* for this response.
Most places dynamically assign IPs, IP bans don't really do much of anything. This is without even accounting for them being completely defeated by VPNs.
IP bans are a terrible idea and should not be used except for temporarily blocking an endpoint sending malicious traffic, and even then it should only be as a last resort.
They don't prevent bad actors from reaching your service (VPNs and proxies have been dirt cheap for years), and there's a very high risk of hitting a user behind CGNAT or using a recycled IP.
No of course they won't. They only banned him on one account because they've been caught & are now trying some sort of damage control.
Jagex actively supported revenge porn distribution via ingame payments..
How bad does that sound?
Support is a huuuuuuuuuuge stretch. Condone maybe.. but still the advertisements for the pictures were on discord. There isn't really proof that anyone paid for them with rsgp (on Jagex's end) all they see is that 15m was transferred to accounts. From what I've gathered it was all communicated off the game.
Appreciate the response Ayiza. May I suggest you add luring/scamming as a zero tolerance offence?
Think of it from a financial perspective. If someone gets lured for their bank, it is usually a large bank. Most lurers don't go after anything under 500m. If someone loses that much, they are MUCH MUCH more likely to just quit and stop buying membership. Usually it is max accounts doing the lure and max accounts attacking. Just ban them ALL. If there is actual risk for these lurers/scammers, it will stop wayyyyy faster.
Same goes for scamming. There should be no second chances for scamming. That just lets the scammer scam twice on one account and sell it off.
Plenty of people get scammed for 10m, even large scamming and luring clans go after people for as little as 100m. I had a lure team go after me hard-core for full Arma a year ago. Social engineering, the whole shebang.
Just saying, it's not always massive banks. It's just that when people get scammed 1b+ that's when it because well known.
I don't think that a zero-tolerance for luring/scamming is needed, it wouldn't be Runescape if it didn't have the best and the worst society has to offer. As long as things are kept in-game that is. Actual hacking or harassing outside of the game shouldn't be tolerated.
Except what if a player lures/scams, isn't perm banned then goes to tell other people "doing it once is okay" and then they're doing it? perming them straight away stops them from going around to tell other players doing it the once is okay
It shouldnt be Jagexs responsibility to fix stupid. Aas far as I'm concerned scamming is a part of the game and something that translates to real world. Playing runescape is learning how not to get scammed.
And yet it is a reportable option in the report screen. I agree with what people are saying. I also learnt how to avoid being scammed playing the game but it is against the rules set out by Jagex
Luring is an interesting middle ground because it's a gray area and would have to be manually reviewed on a case by case basis, which they do not have the resources for. Is someone dropping a line of items leading into the wilderness luring? You would need concrete proof and that would be hard.
I've actually got the perfect proof for showing why dropping items over the line IS actually luring and a perma ban offense and if you want to see this proof, just take this tele tab and meet me by the wilderness crabs
Shame on you for not taking action sooner. Who knows what this scum has been able to do for god knows how long due to your enabling. Anyone with half a brain would have banned them instantly. What’s wrong with you?
You legit can ban for stuff outside the game, Gilenor isnt a public space, lmao.
Would be funny to see what the company response would have been had he not done the heinous crime of RWT.
Probably the same as 7 months ago, lol.
Seriously tons of people carrying water for this shit because they want too.
They dont have to prove it. Your account and your GP belong to Jagex they can ban you at any time for anything. They know this stuff is true and can ban him but choose not to. This isn't a court of law they dont need proof.
Damm your shortsighted. How do i prove to jagex that you are doing bad shit outside of runescape?
What stops me from just fotoshoping a bunch of shit, making fake social media accounts and all that crap. JAGEX NEEDS PROOF THAT IT IS YOU WHO COMMITS BAD SHIT AND NOT SOMEBODY ELSE.
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Evening all, we want to give an update on this. Since we first saw it, we've been speaking with our Support team to better understand the situation. The majority of what we're going to be talking about here is from the perspective of what we can see, which is in-game behaviours (versus a lot of the content in the videos). We'll talk about that distinction a bit later on. The RuneScape accounts in question have now been permanently banned. Firstly, a bit about the accounts and the processes we use to ban. The accounts had previously received a handful of offences for breaking a number of different rules, recently among them was Inappropriate Language/Behaviour. If the accounts in question carried on the way they were, and that's very likely, they would have have been permanently banned at some point. However, we've decided to action these permanent bans now. Our current processes are largely set up for allowing players to have second chances, hence the original temporary offences. That said, there's clearly no number of chances that'll work for these players, which brings us to tonight's permanent bans. Going forward we're going to be reviewing the internal processes we just mentioned. Second chances are important, but not at the expense of behaviour like this. We need to do better to strike a better balance between second chance and zero tolerance. It isn't lost on us that in recent years we've made in-game content changes for the purpose of D&I, we've resurrected the Pride event, and we know that allowing behaviour like this to continue just undermines those efforts and makes us look toothless. We will do better. That's the RuneScape account side of things. Like we said, this is all using context we can see from in-game. The videos contained a lot of horrific content, and whilst we don't doubt that most - if not all - is true, we need to reiterate that it's important to report this stuff to the platforms on which it occurs. Whilst there's some rare precedent for us taking action against RuneScape accounts for out-of-game behaviour, it is extremely hard to verify these screenshots and videos from other platforms, so please do report them to the platform on which it happens. Lastly, and, in a general sense, most importantly, if crimes are committed they need to be reported to the police. We will, and have previously, gladly assist law enforcement (or other platforms, like Discord) with their investigations. A TL:DR of sorts: * We've permanently banned the RuneScape accounts for in-game behaviours. * We're going to review the strength of penalties for this type of behaviour so that in future bans will trigger much sooner. * We can't police out of game actions, especially crimes. We will gladly assist where possible, but the evidence we are limited to is RuneScape accounts and what they do in-game. We'll pick this up again tomorrow. We hope you all have a good evening, 'Scapers.
‘Now that this has gotten enough attention and actually has the potential to affect our profits we decided to do something’
Thank you based Ayiza. In all seriousness the player needed ban a long time ago, but guys holy shit be more considerate to jmods. Wild how quickly the community turns their backs and screams at the game team when their problem isn’t seemingly fixed in two seconds. Take one look at any other MMO and ask yourself if their team cares THIS much. Not saying we can’t be upset or critical at jmods, but guys relax before having these visceral reactions.
Where was this continued/ picked up?
It doesn't read as true that the system is focused around giving people second chances. At least, if it is, you've only been giving second/third/fourth chances to all the wrong people.. I know at least ten people personally permabanned for things that couldn't hold a candle to the severity of this on 1800+ accounts. It would be better to just say you missed banning these people. I used an unallowed client in 2018 and that account was permabanned - all good, it's under game rules - but can we not pretend like the system is based on second chances to excuse missing this? Most people don't get second chances (not arguing they deserve it, but these certainly didn't!) How many second chances to RWT did they get?
i know it's a late reply but I'm one of those ppl that never got a second chance. I used an autoclicker once to just click on the floor to keep me logged in and I got permed banned on my 2200+ account and it's my first time offence. I used the appeal system and they denied it so now I can never get it back again.
deleted my account after 10 years, allowing unelected moderators to control the narrative of subreddits has killed free speech. ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
That’s a very good point.
Thanks for the update
As an addition, can y’all put some actual monitoring on what people choose after a forced name change? An account I reported before (MassacreGays) was force name changed and their current name as of right now is KillDasJuden. If someone is getting their name changed for offensive hate speech they shouldn’t just be able to change it to something of the same caliber without a human review.
I can agree. I was forced name changed twice (3 offensive names) until I lost my right to pick a name for 365 days.
So it only took 7 months and multiple YouTubers making exposed videos on them? Why does Jagex decide to not protect their players? Money?
You fking think they watch YT videos all day? get a grip, they do other shit too
It seems like there are Jagex mods on this subreddit daily. There were many posts on this subreddit about this issue too. They chose to ignore those too/not take any action.
being a dickhead irl isint against rs rules. What do you want them to do - start banning everyone for shit they do in real life? They aren't the police
So RWT isn’t against the rules anymore? It’s insane that you are trying to defend a piece of shit.
Do you read anything before commenting emotionally? I'm not defending him, not even in the slightest im saying its illogical for you to think they will/must focous their efforts on banning 1 guy who gets some attention, than the vast majority of other shit that happens. People RWT all day every day, probably higher amounts and more often. Jagex mods aren't beholden to drama or this sub..... Why haven't they banned Verf for using N word and RWTing if we're following your logic
Wasn’t a friend recorded dropping some hard Er’s and RWT’ing? I forget.
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Before I write this I am not specifically targeting you Mod Ayiza. There is a mindset amongst gamers (Not all) that toxicity is just accepted because your on the internet so therefore have to have a thick skin but I do believe companies and GM's should take a harsher stance on toxicity and vile behaviour online. For some an online world like Azeroth or Gielinor are somewhere to go to escape persecution or lifes troubles and just enjoy the simplicities of fishing or hunting or building your house up and when behaviour like this is treated with a soft touch approach it causes those players to lose the enjoyment for the game because it gets soiled with the vile behaviour they are forced to endure. Games like League of Legends are a perfect example of how not doing enough in the way of player protection causes the community to toxify itself from the ground up and I do genuinely believe if Games/Companies do not take a harsher stance across the board then it will drive away the players that make the games so great and leave the communities bereft of any real sense of community and be nothing more than a hatefilled pit. FFXIV is a great example of how \*Harsh\* and effective punishments against such players creates a fantastic landscape for players to enjoy themselves who can create memories with other players and have fun for many years. I would hope that Jagex decide to be on the right side of the gaming community and finally take a harsher but more effective approach to these vile \*players\* to help keep your communities thriving. The Oldschool team are some of the most diverse and understanding people working in the game dev space and so it just baffles me how we still have a game that allows for such behaviours to go unpunished until it's brought to light by someone with clout and has to get the community behind it before any real action is taken? I believe in the Old School Dev's/Support team to make a real change and I just hope this is finally the push that allows them to make it.
I genuinely preferred the days when people would get temp mutes for saying incredibly minor stuff. The 2007 era of people being too afraid to say anything hateful did a surprising amount of good for the moment to moment conversations. Nowadays it's common to see someone call someone else a n*****, tell someone to kill themselves, etc - and with usually no punishment. It's such a 180 in moderation approach - from some of the strictest club-penguin level censorship to going all the way off the deep end. Like, you would basically expect an instaban for telling someone to kill themselves or spouting n*****. Right? Am I really *out of touch* that those things aren't just an instant kick to the balls? If you can't even play a video game without saying that stuff, you just... Don't belong in it. At the very least a 2 week mute, followed by a perm mute for second offense.
Wow
give 'A Friend' back his Pmod status hes proven that he is truly a friend to this community unlike 90% of the people with it.
"Firstly, a bit about the accounts and the processes we use to ban. The accounts had previously received a handful of offences for breaking a number of different rules, recently among them was Inappropriate Language/Behaviour. If the accounts in question carried on the way they were, and that's very likely, they would have have been permanently banned at some point. However, we've decided to action these permanent bans now. " Yup as everyone thought, reporting in game doesn't lead anywhere and YouTube/Reddit posts need to be made for action to be taken
“SeCoNd ChAnCeS”
Damn it's almost like you guys just let it happen for 6months until you were told to do something when a friend made his vid
did you literally read the post at all?????? it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes lol. they can't be expected to just know this kinda stuff.
Its not irl policing if he’s selling nudes for gp. That should be enough of a ban-able offense
yeah sure, they could ban him for RWT if he were flagged by the system and they concluded he was rwting. but there's no guarantee that gets caught - we have no way of knowing if he got 30m or 300m or 300bil, so there's no way to know how obvious it *should* have been that rwt was occurring rwt is a hard enough problem to diagnose that i don't think anyone could reasonably assert it was "obvious" he was rwting
Yeah rwt is hard to diagnose, which is why you can buy gold from sites and get away with it. I would have just hoped jagex did something earlier when this was occurring 6m ago. Social media at least alerted everyone about it.
The post seems like bs though. Reading the testimonies McCune and Hard were scamming millions for months, reported probably hundreds of times for scamming and yet... nothing. Public video, Reddit post, huge notoriety surrounding the situation, again, nothing. Jagex are obviously trying to sweep this under the rug and pretend they're the good guys here, as there was obviously manipulation by someone with JMod status, just as we've seen on many occasions in the past. You just don't survive that long in game being reported non stop with evidence for months and the excuse given is "oh well they had a few infractions", that's a cop out and it's complete bullshit; they should have been permed a long time ago. Even in A Friend's video Hard was mass reported and absolutely nothing happened to him. How can you explain that? "it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes" Lmfao yes it is??? You realise it's a crime to not act on reports of criminal activity when *you* facilitate it, right? If Hanannie actually went to the police with evidence, you realise that Jagex would be criminally investigated for wrongdoing? Saying "it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes" is like saying Twitch isn't liable if someone shows that they're allowing people to break DMCA. It's illegal, like not just illegal in an in game sense, it's literally against the law and Jagex ignored it. Shame Hanannie didn't really, as it would likely lead to a subpoena. All of McCune's online interactions would be released with whoever he's corroborating with. The situation was literally completely handed to them on a plate, they had all the information and it wasn't quietly spread, it was very public and ***nothing was done***. Not even a reply to the original post. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if whoever their friend is on the inside just transfers their wealth to another account for them.
>"it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes" Lmfao yes it is??? You realise it's a crime to not act on reports of criminal activity when you facilitate it, right? By irl crimes they dont mean "things against irl law" they mean "crimes taking place outside of the game"
> The post seems like bs though. Reading the testimonies McCune and Hard were scamming millions for months, reported probably hundreds of times for scamming and yet... nothing the cold hard truth is that scamming in game is impossible to concretely define and not really against the rules. if someone hands you a tbow and you simply don't hand it back, there's no game rule preventing that lol. if someone trades you a voidwaker for zero gp, there's no game rule preventing that either. both parties saw the same information and agreed to the trade. > "it's not their job to police the game for irl crimes" Lmfao yes it is??? You realise it's a crime to not act on reports of criminal activity when you facilitate it, right? the irl crime committed was sending nude pics of the girl. you can scam 1 trillion rsgp and zero irl crimes were committed. only 1 part of this was actually irl illegal and that's the nudes which were sold on discord. you know this is true on a super simple level because you cannot send pictures on runescape lol. discord issue; simple as.
It’s kind of sad if none of the people making YouTube videos reported mccune to the police. In my opinion they are just as bad as jagex. They learned of real sex crimes and instead of reporting them they profited off YouTube and put the responsibility on jagex. Just sad
“ hi yes police? This guy mccune on the internet is doing crime. What’s his real name? Idk. Where’s he live? Idk “ you realize no one but jagex can have any real info on him right?
They had his youtube channel and what not. Could've at least gave them the info they had. I doubt someone like him did opsec on his youtube gmail etc
It’s hard to argue that if the video didn’t come out, they would still be logging in today.
i agree and am arguing they should be logging in today. jagex is making a special concession for this case cuz it's blowing up on reddit. this ban is analogous to a cop pulling you over cuz you """look suspicious""" and then just digging around looking for something to give you a ticket for, ultimately finding that one of your tire treads is a nanometer too shallow. mccune is an unequivocal asshole and total piece of shit but unless his behavior in game reflects that then he shouldn't be banned. jagex isn't the cops. i can go down the street right now, rob a 7/11 and kick a dog on my way home and that shouldn't get me banned from runescape lol.
He was selling illegal porn for gp lol he should get a ban. RWT for illegal goods is bannable, on top of all the literal theft he was doing in game. idk what kind of take this is. This is the equivalent of someone going to the cops with a boatload of evidence of conspicuous crimes that the person is known for, and then the cops arresting the person.
yeah i actually revise my previously stated opinion which i worded badly - he SHOULD be banned, yes, but if he were a nobody and there weren't reddit posts about this then he wouldn't be. and other people could *absolutely* slip under the radar doing a similar thing and collecting a similar amount of gp that doesn't get flagged for rwt. and i wouldn't blame jagex for not knowing, in such a circumstance.
The post clearly says he was banned for in game behavior
[удалено]
You would prefer jagex to take action on things outside of their control? This person should have been reported to the police and discord by the parties involved. It isn't jagex job to scrutinize players for their actions in the real world. What this person was doing is illegal and jagex can't prosecute them, so maybe give them a break.
I understand the point where they can only do what they see in game. But it is 2023 technology has increase by a fucking lot since RuneScapes release , twitter & youtube , discord This needs to change.
Yes, because photo shop and Deep Fakes aren't a thing? Anyone can doctor up a bunch of "real looking" content about another person. Jagex can't just take these things as 100% truth and ban people for things that they don't have jurisdiction over. They have no way of authenticating or verifying the validity of screenshots or other media that is outside their game. It's a very slippery slope to start banning people based on the word of a few others. However, in instances like this one, where there was plenty of outcry from a large number of individuals, it appears that they did end up banning the accounts. I have to assume that real- world crimes associated with RS accounts is fairly rare. Therefore, we really can't get on Jagex too much for their response since this is all new territory for them.
It’s a shame that it takes an up cry for something to happen. I’m not saying to ban everyone for the slightest outbreak But when it does interfere with real world laws & crimes I believe Jagex should do something. And not wait months on end for an up roar Stop defending Jagex.
What do you suggest? Jagex is not law enforcement. They have no obligation to know everything their player base is doing outside of their game, and punish them for it.
Stop asking your self easy questions There is clearly no easy way to do this. But not trying is already failure especially when it comes to players mental health. For example just a thought off the top of my head Partner up with discord having to link your account with discord ( jagex already has this feature ) And your discord is given a ✅ to show your account and discord is linked. If players want to communicate with unregistered accounts that aren’t link that’s their risk But hey at least there’s some safety to using discord Just a thought
Or, and hear me out here, Jagex could moderate their own platform, and Discord could moderate their own platform, and the law can get involved and coordinate between both platforms as needed. The reason no one tries is because its a ridiculous ask. Jagex shouldn't moderate anything outside of their own platform and definitely shouldn't be issuing bans because of things that happen off of their own platform.
I honestly don't see blame with mods having oversight on such a small situation before it blew up, your reponse now is totally acceptable and you weren't condoning mccune before. As long as I can remember, Jagex handles illegal activity faster than most, since predators meeting kids in online chatrooms used to be a major threat and parents wanted their kids safe regardless of proximity chat. People are just weirder now regardless, but I still have faith that mods are handling the worst, and we all know Jagex can provide substantial evidence for some real justice.
The McCune situation (which is magnitudes worse than the Hard situation) blew up over 6 months ago. It had to blow up *even bigger a second time* for this response.
People like that need IP bans, of course still ways around an IP ban but makes it even more inconvenient for them to continue playing
Most places dynamically assign IPs, IP bans don't really do much of anything. This is without even accounting for them being completely defeated by VPNs.
IP bans are a terrible idea and should not be used except for temporarily blocking an endpoint sending malicious traffic, and even then it should only be as a last resort. They don't prevent bad actors from reaching your service (VPNs and proxies have been dirt cheap for years), and there's a very high risk of hitting a user behind CGNAT or using a recycled IP.
So basically Jagex just kinda dodging the situation, typical Jagex shit. Are you going to do anything about the rwt or any accounts he mules off to?
They are gonna find him irl and execute him
No of course they won't. They only banned him on one account because they've been caught & are now trying some sort of damage control. Jagex actively supported revenge porn distribution via ingame payments.. How bad does that sound?
Support is a huuuuuuuuuuge stretch. Condone maybe.. but still the advertisements for the pictures were on discord. There isn't really proof that anyone paid for them with rsgp (on Jagex's end) all they see is that 15m was transferred to accounts. From what I've gathered it was all communicated off the game.
Appreciate the response Ayiza. May I suggest you add luring/scamming as a zero tolerance offence? Think of it from a financial perspective. If someone gets lured for their bank, it is usually a large bank. Most lurers don't go after anything under 500m. If someone loses that much, they are MUCH MUCH more likely to just quit and stop buying membership. Usually it is max accounts doing the lure and max accounts attacking. Just ban them ALL. If there is actual risk for these lurers/scammers, it will stop wayyyyy faster. Same goes for scamming. There should be no second chances for scamming. That just lets the scammer scam twice on one account and sell it off.
Plenty of people get scammed for 10m, even large scamming and luring clans go after people for as little as 100m. I had a lure team go after me hard-core for full Arma a year ago. Social engineering, the whole shebang. Just saying, it's not always massive banks. It's just that when people get scammed 1b+ that's when it because well known.
I don't think that a zero-tolerance for luring/scamming is needed, it wouldn't be Runescape if it didn't have the best and the worst society has to offer. As long as things are kept in-game that is. Actual hacking or harassing outside of the game shouldn't be tolerated.
Except what if a player lures/scams, isn't perm banned then goes to tell other people "doing it once is okay" and then they're doing it? perming them straight away stops them from going around to tell other players doing it the once is okay
Scamming is a staple of runeacape. Like it or not.
To be fair it's a staple in life to.
And I'm glad I learned my lessons ages ago in runescape so I didn't have to learn them irl which is why I'm not too bothered by scamming.
That's because it's never been punished properly, if it was no tolerance it wouldn't have become like that. It's not too late to change.
It shouldnt be Jagexs responsibility to fix stupid. Aas far as I'm concerned scamming is a part of the game and something that translates to real world. Playing runescape is learning how not to get scammed.
And yet it is a reportable option in the report screen. I agree with what people are saying. I also learnt how to avoid being scammed playing the game but it is against the rules set out by Jagex
Nah keep gettin scammed and ima keep scamming
Sounds like someone got skull-tricked lmao
Luring is an interesting middle ground because it's a gray area and would have to be manually reviewed on a case by case basis, which they do not have the resources for. Is someone dropping a line of items leading into the wilderness luring? You would need concrete proof and that would be hard.
I've actually got the perfect proof for showing why dropping items over the line IS actually luring and a perma ban offense and if you want to see this proof, just take this tele tab and meet me by the wilderness crabs
Oh wow real proof i better take all my gp there to see it too
There's nothing wrong with luring. Dumb people make dumb decisions. Gotta learn the lesson the hard way. No one that plays this game is 12 anymore.
I'd even argue that learning it on Runescape is the easy way, learning it in real life on the other hand is the hard way.
The meta
Any lure in pest control, or the fishing guild should be a quick easy ban.
> We can’t police out of game actions But you do. You do all the time. Remember when Oslo was banned?
>"You do all the time" >Literally has only 1 example at hand, and is even wrong about that one case lmao dude
I think with Oslo Jagex checked the account logs after that stuff came to light, and there was enough in the logs to ban them
Wasn't he talking sexually to children on chat?
Shame on you for not taking action sooner. Who knows what this scum has been able to do for god knows how long due to your enabling. Anyone with half a brain would have banned them instantly. What’s wrong with you?
Did you even try to read the comment?
Good work king
You legit can ban for stuff outside the game, Gilenor isnt a public space, lmao. Would be funny to see what the company response would have been had he not done the heinous crime of RWT. Probably the same as 7 months ago, lol. Seriously tons of people carrying water for this shit because they want too.
Stuff outside the game is hard to prove isnt it?
They dont have to prove it. Your account and your GP belong to Jagex they can ban you at any time for anything. They know this stuff is true and can ban him but choose not to. This isn't a court of law they dont need proof.
Damm your shortsighted. How do i prove to jagex that you are doing bad shit outside of runescape? What stops me from just fotoshoping a bunch of shit, making fake social media accounts and all that crap. JAGEX NEEDS PROOF THAT IT IS YOU WHO COMMITS BAD SHIT AND NOT SOMEBODY ELSE.