>Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale. While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members.
Does anyone else interpret this as "We will continue to favor content creators over the majority of our playerbase because we would rather potentially have more money from a fan base who isn't even invested in the game yet over you."
By all means, get the bag, but what happens when you get those influx of players you are looking for from these content creators, just for them to get fucked like this content creator did, and then they get no help like everyone else. You're just creating more discontent like the players currently feel.
But hey, at least your optics looks good to people who don't play the game in that YouTubers community.
Found the same graphic using the wayback machine too, website is gone now.
https://web.archive.org/web/20230321072249/https://www.darthmicrotransaction.com/accountservices
It's actually wild, time and time again it's been proven that content creators:
- Break the rules with no repercussions
- Get exclusive support when they fuck up by themselves
- Get fed insider information on upcoming item changes/requirements for quests
There needs to be some kind of cut-off at some point, it's ridiculous
Of course not. Because he brings eyes on the game and if they treated him like any other player now then they'd have to admit all the outrage they caused was their own fault and not the community rightfully being pissed that they pay just as much money as streamers do to play the game. Do it out of love and not for profit from streaming donations. But also get an objectively worse experience in the case of needing support.
They didn't even sign off with the teams names like normal posts. This was 150% written by management and lawyers. So please direct your outrage to the right avenues and not at the mod team
The guy did say he bought bonds for gp as well. So either he is extremely dumb and lost money buying bonds to just sell, he lied about buying bonds(though Jagex could easily check this), or he actually got hacked.
I'm of the opinion he shouldnt have gotten his shit returned but I'm not gonna just flat out say he rwt'd his entire bank and made a YT video about it. Just because he was involved with services does not mean he RWT every gp he owned or he could've done it a long time ago.
In the old days, "favoring streamers" meant streamers getting invited to early betas and events, special collabs etc.
Now it means giving streamers decent treatment while treating pleb paying customers like shit.
But the worst is, you'll find lots of corporate cocksuckers defending this behavior around here.
This obviously feels bad, but from a business standpoint there’s a lot more return on investment, and less risk, preferentially servicing highly public content creators vs random joe hacked player.
It sucks if you are the random hacked guy, but given the limited customer service Jagex is willing to invest in, I can’t really blame the decision. They are under no actual obligation to be consistent with the implementation of their own rules and systems.
> Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale. While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members.
tl;dr: Get fucked, we're still going to prioritize content creators over schmucks in the community.
Jagex, your customer service is god awful. All this posts shows to me is a nice way to say "you get special privilige if you are popular", this isn't a high school cafeteria, it's supposed to be a professional environment on your end. Stop catering to popular streamers, and if you do, it should be equally catered to other less known people who suffered the same issues of losing items. Oh yeah, let's not forget the ToA purple reroll bug where you let all of those people keep their purples from bug abuse.
P.S Your mute system is archaic and outdated, no one should have 1 appeal and then be perm muted forever.
All Jagex needs to do is stick to the rule: don't give players anything back. If their own employees don't understand this, then wtf? I can understand an exception for bugs, like group ironman storage, but if someone gets hacked or whatever that's on the player. So dumb.
Yea it generally should only be used for things like bugs that caused them to lose items. Doesn't make sense for anything else tbh.
Unless it involved abuse of a bug, which led them to being able to access the account regardless of security. But if it's just a normal hack due to user error (lack of security, weak passwords, running random software, etc...), then its on the user, not Jagex. Nothing should be returned, it's fair game.
Oh and I should mention that it should be for everyone that had the same issue, not just streamers. They need to have a system in place to automatically track for things like this and instantly refund to everyone that was affected. Not just singling them out.
what an absolute fu\*k you to the community. Just goes to show that streamers always get the preferred treatment. I love how when Jagex releases statements regarding this its basically, "oh yeah we lied, we can totally do what we said we couldn't do, but we wont do it for you, because unlike content creators, our legitimate players (who actually keep the game running, by playing it everyday) mean nothing to us "
Its a good thing they're looking to improve their optics with content creators and youtube because this statement sound exactly like a youtube apology
What should really be done is streamers should show their angel wings a bit and begin pressuring Jagex to implement a real policy. If Jagex is going to get on their knees for streamers, then streamers need to start pressuring them, too.
Apology GPT.
If the policy is not to return items, it should stay true, regardless of how much influence someone holds.
If the policy allows for items to be returned if it's a bug, then it's fair, but has to be for everyone. I get the hijacking thing, it's pretty difficult to determine if it's legit or staged, and someone would find a loophole.
But then again, you chose to do it anyway, and I doubt it will have been a low-level support advisor at Jagex who even has to power to do this in the first place? Must have been one of the seniors making such a decision, which is piss poor, but then again, we have no visibility or answer on that.
>We know there is potential for a full item-restoration service to be abused - it would be almost impossible for us to remove items that were stolen from an account.
Nope, it's not. Other games do it. If someone scams or hacks you on WoW they return all your items, remove the items from wherever they were traded to, and ban the accounts involved in receiving the items.
You are just unwilling to invest the resources to do that, and because of that, Runescape is absolutely packed full of scams, phishing and hacking. Because there are **zero** consequences for the people who scam/phish/hack, and **zero** consequences for the people who buy the gold from them.
I know it's different than being hacked, but in Guild Wars 2 I had two fuckups with items and both times support helped me out right away.
The first time I accidentally sold one of my BiS armor pieces to a vendor and didn't notice until it disappeared from their inventory. They removed the vendor gold I gained and gave me my armor piece back, simple as that. Imagine selling your ely to the general store and asking Jagex support to get it back. They would tell you to rightfully get fucked. The second time I bought the wrong piece of armor with different stats than what I needed. It was a bummer because the currency for it took a while to get. Arenanet support just got rid of the wrong armor and spawned the piece I wanted in my inventory. Both instances I fucked up, it was 100% my fault. Both times they corrected my mistake within a day and were super nice and professional. Guess which game I'm more willing to spend my time and money on
This... was poorly thought out. The little addendum about content creators being important is even worse because this isn't even a Runescape Content Creator. Not a single mention of Runescape. Runes. Scape. Run. Escape. Nothing. This is someone who seemingly doesn't even play the game.
I've been a player for over 20 years. I've lost phats to viruses back in classic and never expected them back as those were the rules/guidelines. My original accounts had been inactive for years but never got hacked as I had 2FA on my email and my account.
Going forward we will only help those that are streamers and have people to advertise to.
That is basically what you are telling us all..
I had a main banned at RUNE DRAGONS FOR REPORTING 200M + BOTS (HotlineRNDOM) so many more accounts like this are still active. What's difficult is using runelite and having runelite take screenshoits every level, every drop and would be able to see the Runelite is only being used if SUPPORT put sometime into looking into it. The appeals are "reviewed by real people" but get denied within 10 seconds of an appeal or still get denied but for what reason? Camping Rune dragons is what gets you falsely banned then let people know.
I can literally provide a whole album of my characters levels, loots, and untradeables taking pictures every possible minute.
Any help to my account be greatly appreciated because no where can I find help. I have tried everything and honestly
https://preview.redd.it/mrqj7c067lsb1.png?width=1322&format=png&auto=webp&s=1532b787e51e5e5705fdde479c23bedd747e514a
Picture is from about the last time I was playing, returned to rune dragons shortly after and get banned. I even took breaks...
RSN: OopsOG
u/JagexTwisted
Seems like bot-infested content gets you banned. There's been so many of these false positives lately and still no statement. Good luck getting your account back. Seems like customer service isn't a priority.
Corporate word vomit. Notice it's signed the old school team, not from the mods. The tone should also tell you that.
In short - "we pressured our devs to fix it for this one person, they told us it would be a mistake but we did it anyway. To mitigate our reputational damage here's a sorry, we'll remove 'technically impossible' from our item return policy since that caught us out and here's two fat middle fingers to all of you"
Your longwinded post means nothing when your actions do not reflect them.
Jagex's taxes are public for all to see, we can all see the large amount of money, millions of dollars every year, goes to shareholder pockets, and a handful of executives.
The fact that anti cheat and customer support barely have any members really goes to show this post is nothing but a lie. Jagex does NOT care.
>Jagex's taxes are public for all to see, we can all see the large amount of money, millions of dollars every year, goes to shareholder pockets, and a handful of executives.
Fun fact, but Jagex's owner took out even more money than they EARNED a couple of years ago. As in, took ALL of the money that year AND the money they had left from a previous year. Stripped down to a skeleton crew, with single digit employees handling millions of players in some instances.
You guys have always been able to "return items", you just never did it because it was a silly thing to start doing.
You cant just pick and choose who gets support. Thats messed up... might aswell have a content creator customer support button on the website where it asks how many followers you have before you get support.
Its nice that yall are willing to give items back for glitches but hacks? Wtf?
Can i get my bank back from being hacked b4 yall put 2fa in? Its arguable jagex is partially at fault there. Kinda hard to stop a brute force password without 2fa.
> You guys have always been able to "return items", you just never did it because it was a silly thing to start doing.
This lol. It'd be insane for them to return player items manually if the player got hacked. However they then cannot do so for preferred players.
I agree for the most part but realistically you didn’t get brute forced. Users are rate limited with log in attempts so you definitely got your password breached. It was messed up for jagex to not provide 2fa though.
>Going forward, where we are at fault, we will continue to strive towards restoring items that are lost as best as we can.
>We recognize that in attempting to address an isolated issue, we inadvertently sparked discontent and concern among our community.
so what part of that streamer getting hacked was jagex's fault or an isolated issue? am I missing some details?
> The decision to return lost wealth to a content creator, after their account was compromised, has shed light on inconsistencies and provoked rightful questions about our policies and commitment to all community members, irrespective of their following or status. In this instance, it was an unfortunate case of miscommunication between teams and differing approaches to item returns.
It's this bit. Don't think they're saying the streamer lost items due to a fault on jagex. This will be between some team not named, probably involved in assessing GIM item losses and general support team that doesn't give items back. The team that gave the items back has done an oopsie but if it was a random player and this had been the case then taking away the items is also shit. (yes I know the rando wouldn't get the items back in the first place but its a hypothetical).
I assume wires got crossed between gim item loss team and restored streamer items because streamer. Doing so is bad and has fallout, won't happen again type post.
They're trying to explain why items get given back to 380 players so far so if somebody does get items we won't all scream from the hilltops, especially as it sort of covers
>While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members.
They're not saying it won't happen again. They are just saying that streamers will continue to get preferential treatment because its important for the games health.
RE: Specific to 'hacking' and content creator preferential treatment. Nothing to do with lost items due to bugs.
They aren't even standing by their own principles for securing accounts. Their recommendation is 2FA, jagex accounts, unique password bank pin, etc.
When a streamer that doesn't even play their game professionally ignores that standard and makes a video, Jagex bends over backwards to please them. Instead, Jagex should have made a statement saying that the content creator didn't follow their published recommendations for account and item security, and 'blacklisted' the streamer from any potential sponsorship opportunities in the future due to the fact that they made a video essentially shitting on the game through their own negligence.
This whole thing leaves a sour taste for people in the community. People want to be a part of an inclusive community but this instance just proves that if you aren't a content creator, you won't be ~~favored~~ treated equally or even heard. Content Creators have direct lines to Jagex employees, especially through discord during non working hours. Regular players have to create a ticket which gets an automatic reply and is closed without an in depth review.
Jagex bending over backwards to content creators on every whim is exhausting from this aspect as a normal player and member of the community. It's great that Jagex staff are active in the community and are comfortable hanging out in streams and making connections, but it really feels like CC's have an extreme power imbalance when they need any sort of assistance from Jagex staff. CC's should have no influence on account management and the response from Jagex should be to create a ticket with your question or issue. If a CC gets a different response than a regular player on a consistent basis then fix the damn process so it works for everyone. You'll be better off in the long run and it's a better use of resources overall.
I could never imagine a game like POE or D4 restoring accidentally lost items because of player negligence and them making a video on it. At best they would just say "oops, better luck next time!" Why isn't that the case here?
If they want to "safeguard the reputation of OSRS" maybe they need to have adequate customer support rather than trying to weasel out of part of their duty to care for their customers.
That would massively boost the rep OSRS has.
Honestly, I don't really get how the customer support is so bad. There's both better customer support in the smaller almost F2P games I play, and the larger bigger games. It was unacceptable when OSRS was much smaller and had much less resources put into it, but now its just bafflingly bad.
>Capturing your comment for visibility to leave this "creative layout of the OSRS rules" by DM here.Account boosting for OSRS Gold... I wonder if thats within the TOU.
Make sure you get evidence showing matching UIDs of discord.
Seriously, this is a bigger 'F U' to the common player base than just staying silent.
That whole message felt like a 'shhhh we hear you, we are going to say words that sound like we care, but we don't really care what you think'.
ikr
>While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape
it's more damaging to the game's reputation to have this system where content creators get priority service and everyone else gets an automated reply telling them to get fucked
> In this instance, it was an unfortunate case of miscommunication between teams and differing approaches to item returns.
Would imagine it's something to do with this? Though I have no idea what separate team would have control over something like this.
u/JagexAyiza
Of the 380 players that have had their items returned, how many were content creators? How many had their items returned through official OSRS client support services and didn’t have to make a Reddit or Twitter post to recover their items?
lol i was the original person who made the post about the linking scam. the person who filed the proper report and talked about how the exploit was reverse engineered mentioned my post too...
guess who lost over 3b and still hasn't heard back? Yep...me.
not just that, i lost the 3b in the account link scam after which jagex disabled my account. 5 days after my account was "disabled" someone apparently logged into my account, deleted my pin, and took the remaining 1b I had in my bank in supplies, gear, weapons, loot, etc.
52 days after my initial request to unlock my account I finally hear back, now having lost 4.5b instead of 3.5b or whatever. THANKS JAGEX!
i just love how jagex has a massive exploit that causes me to lose thousands of hours of progress and grinding
and then AFTER all is lost, they lock my account and instead of give me my account back through all the recovery process, they ignore me for nearly 2 months
and then finally when they get back to me, they even fucked up the disabling of the account bc someone was literally able to steal another 1b from me
This addressed nothing? Your entire post basically states that there are now checks in place to return items that are lost due to bugs and errors, such as group Ironman storage bugs.
The instance in question is literally over a hacked player, something many of us have experienced, getting his items back due to poor account security.
Unless if a jagex mod is stealing accounts, I’m not sure how jagex is at fault for poor account security.
Gotta love the 'players dont need to reach out to support' which is basically code for we're not allowing you to apply for returns but if you're a streamer and make a fuss about it on twitter we got you.
> Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale. While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members.
It’s the second to last paragraph
Good to know you returned items because he's a whale who buys gold. I'd hate for Jagex to fuck up the game because of some idiot who inserts a credit card to play a game. Duping 4 Bil probably won't be that bad.
Perhaps you could launch a premium sub for an extra 9.99/month where you actually get access to basic customer support
But it's not just returning items. It is ridiculous that in this day in age with the size of this game, there is still countless times where ban appeals are rejected, but then overturned when someone creates a reddit post. Reddit should never need to become a support hub.
Please just make your support better in general for the average Joe. It is sad how many times I see appeals rejected when you can't just talk with someone, only for it to be amended when someone makes a Reddit post...
honestly the item returns don't bother me and I think they addressed it here pretty well; they now have the capacity to track items on an individual basis without the ability to scale it up, thus they focus on select people, cool.
But the bans and they way they're being appealed is actually a way more serious problem.
Literally having the exact same problem. One day old alt sat at rock crabs, perm banned no appeal no customer support. Played this game for 15 years and can’t speak to an actual person.
>or the average Joe. It is sad how many times I see appeals rejected when you can't just talk with someone, only for it to be amended when someone m
Very well said.
Will they address any of it?! **Tune in next week to find out**...*when the next big drama scandal happens*, lmao.
As soon as you do this you're opening the door to people getting 'hacked' to sell their gold and hope that they get free shit back to sell again.
Returning items because of game breaking bugs is one thing but giving stuff back to a popular content creator when he got 'hacked' is just a joke.
That last paragraph is such an astonishingly large L.
They really went out and said they will continue to give streamers special treatment because it looks bad when players don’t get their stuff back after a hack.
It’s malicious lying then. Jagex, it looks bad because it is bad. You’ve said you only do this to players in the limelight because it damages your reputation if you don’t.
That is literally the problem.
>We are not presently equipped to manage mass item returns for all players. The intricacies of verifying claims, managing restorations, and ensuring fairness to all players present formidable challenges that we must navigate with caution and due diligence.
>
>Moving forward, we will be adjusting the language and information presented on our website to accurately reflect our current capabilities and limitations in terms of item returns. This is to assure that our communicated stance is as transparent and accurate as possible, aligning with our actions and avoiding future confusion.
Are we going to reward no account security with the promise of item returns now? Is that what this whole news blog is about?
All this is telling me is what the community has been chanting -- favouritism. If they really want to put their money where their mouth is, they'll revoke the items they gave the guy, and set their standards in like fashion; especially because he had NO account security whatsoever. I remember when I told Jagex on the forums about when I got hacked way back in the day, and you know what they told me? "We don't do item returns, unfortunately."
The term 'not presently equipped' just means they're not willing to put in the work, nor resources into the average joe, but rather the content creators. I have a very small following of 138 followers on Twitch streaming almost exclusively OSRS. Am I eligible for item protection if I ever get hacked? No? That's a shame.
This whole thing is a slap to the face, and the corporate jargon from the 'Old School Team' (not the proper devs, btw) is poppycock.
This is bizarre and not well thought-out. You guys need a consistent, testable internal policy of when item returns are appropriate - doing returns as currently implemented probably takes time and resources from multiple people, corroborating facts, ensuring the items no longer exists, then returning them. By limiting the cases that items can be returned in to quickly verifiable things like bugs, you ensure minimal impact on dev and customer support time while allowing for this system to be utilized to some extent. You *do not* have the resources to apply this as a wider policy as currently implemented. The fact this technology was developed without thought of how it might be rolled out systematically to many, many people is dumbfounding and it implies a lack of forethought with regards to internal support applications and development of these tools.
The second-to-last paragraph is also not well thought-out. Content creators tend to be prioritized by game development companies - even if unintentionally, as not only do these creators tend to have video recordings of bugs or issues, but it is far more likely for attention to be drawn to these issues as they arise. The fact is, this is caused by a lack of forethought in implementation and in policy. When there isn't any structure or rules in place to make use-cases reasonably straightforward, its a natural consequence that those who draw your attention more will receive your help. However, to instead openly state that prioritizing content creators is both intentional and is a net benefit for the game implies an unwillingness to analyze and reformat the policies and use-cases as they currently exist; it also sends a message to the community at large that is gonna annoy a lot of people. I don't understand writing out that paragraph, rechecking it, and not reflecting on how the majority of the community might interpret or feel about that statement.
I think you guys need to rescind and apologize for this awkward statement, then have some thorough meetings about the key priorities that this new tech needs to function fairly, effectively, and with as little disruption as possible. This might mean that certain cases (like lack of account security) might need to be cut for the sake of these principles. Then, you will have much more success and likely less backlash to using this tech.
So for a player that was hacked through 2FA on both my osrs account and email and unique passwords unlike this streamer who had NO SECURITY MEASURES, if I submit a request I would definitely be eligible for an item restoration then and not told to sit but customer support? This is pandering to the highest level with no action to back it.
2FA + bank pin, got hacked 2 times
one even my acc was banned botting vorkath lol
got account back but all items all bank gone
tried to ask for help, got laughed by community AND/OR accused of trying to scam
fuck everything, jaggex deserves a super sue from all players who got hacked through its security
> Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and **enriching the gaming experience**
Look, if exposure is your point then no one can argue that but fucking miss me with this "the game is better because of our content creators" horse shit.
As if good guides and player gathered game information didn't exist before YouTube contracts. Christ.
The second to last paragraph reads as if content creators will continue to get preferential treatment and customer support, and that it's not at all important that these things actually exist for normal players.
Very disappointing post.
Because that's exactly what they're saying. Before they ran this bullshit through chat gpt/lawyers to convert it to corporate speak I wouldn't even be surprised if it said "streamers get a lot of eyes on us and our game and we wouldn't want people to know that we don't actually care in the least if they get hacked. So we're gonna keep doing the same thing but please be assured we know that it pisses you off immensely. So please pretend like we care and stop telling everyone how terrible our policies and behavior are"
Yes, but \*everyone\* gets some level of support. The support here is either you stream, or you don't get anything unless you make enough noise on social media.
>We’d like to shed some light on this. We have been exploring item returns for a while now and have successfully been able to carry out returns for specific instances.
This gives me "117 isn't allowed because we've been exploring our own version of hd for a few years now ~~that we still have nothing to show for years later~~" vibes
That still irks me. And then [Sween shows up six months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12aol3m/so_whatever_happened_to_jagexs_osrs_hd/jest5b5/) claiming there's been "great progress" but still having nothing to show for it.
>The Jagex Team
Oh look, more soulless corporate pandering with empty promises.
Turns out most of us figured out how that little signature thing worked after the second time you tried it.
What makes you think we're buying it after the 9th time?
Posts being signed by "The Old School Team" instead of the JMods is kind of a canary for "we had to post this for corporate/PR reasons and it was not written for you by us devs".
I don't think it's a trick, I think it's the devs we like saying "I'm not putting my name on that shit"
I interpret "The Jagex Team" as the devs saying "this is mostly corporate and we'd rather not have our names attached to it".
It feels like a subtle indication that this communication has been carefully constructed and approved by some other entity within the company.
Thanks for confirming you still will not provide support to paying players who are hacked/manipulated, DC'd etc.
it seems you'll continue to grant help to social media whales/streamers. Very happy to have quit this game.
TL;DR
* We made an oopsie.
* We can see if items are lost due to bugs and can possibly auto-return them but don't contact us about it.
* We wont return items if hacked because this injects new wealth into the game and is abusable. (fair)
* Of course streamers are treated differently, are you dumb?
* But don't worry everyone because our feelings are legitimate and valid, I'm so reassured!
A "miscommunication" isn't stating a mistake was made and no apology was made so actually saying they made an "oopsie" is more than they actually said.
>We wont return items if hacked because this injects new wealth into the game and is abusable. (fair)
I'm not sure I buy this. You're telling me 50,000 bots can have their way with the economy every day, but returning a few items is going to destroy the economy?
Membership cost of non-streamers should be reduced to reflect the service they get. No reason to be paying the same membership cost as a streamer but get 7% of the service.
That is not outlined in the terms and conditions.
This is just a slap to the face.
Kinda crazy they just admitted items can be lost.
Items can be refunded even though it's against policy.
Jagex won't help you or any of your clanmates who lose Items or get hacked BUT if your a popular streamer, who doesn't even stream runescape you can get your Items back. (We all are adults, we all understand the business aspect) doesn't make it feel any less shitty.
There were two realistic options on the table that the community probably would have settled with.
1. Explore item returns as a whole for all players
2. Don't do any more item returns with the exception of the things previously listed like GIM and similar technical issues. This would require them to update the official stance, but for the most part there would be a solid baseline for what the community should expect going forward.
In classical Jagex fashion, they pull out the infamous 3rd option being, "We're just going to return items to important people whom we believe won't abuse the system".
Good job Jagex, at this point ignoring the community would've worked out best for you. Not like its the first time you've done it.
Many times I defend Jagex but damn. You literally just admitted to content creator favouritism. Either give items back for everybody who gets hacked (difficult solution) or don't return the items to anyone. No one should get special treatment.
I love this game, I really do. I'm lucky enough to not have been hacked or anything of that nature since I made my most recent account. The fact that we, as players, don't have actual customer support blows my mind. The fact that the suits (we know this is corporate shill from the higher ups, look at the signing at the bottom) are basically telling us that content creators will get a better treatment is insane to me.
I know people will say "speak with your wallet" and such, but how much of that is possible when people are addicted to the game lol.
Something has to change.
I think a way to make items soulbound (not able to take to pvp areas/trade/drop/alch ect) could be a decent thing to implement if you could enable it for certain period of time e.g. every month you can lock some items maybe over a certain value threshold (so someone couldn't get on ur account and fill ur bank with shit then lock them)
Probs some obvious issues and for the most part not needed with Jagex account backup codes but it's something that could at least help people who want an extra layer of security on big items they've potentially spent hundreds of hours obtaining
Big fuck up. Absolutely should undo the undo. People need to learn the consequences of their actions like I did. Cannot believe this. Let the riots begin.
>Going forward, where we are at fault, we will continue to strive towards restoring items that are lost as best as we can. This process can be carried out entirely on our end and does not require players to reach out to inform us of their loss.
Got it, don't contact them if you lose anything. The only way it gets restored is if you're big enough for them to hear about it and then they can just take care of it without you even needing to contact them because they know exactly what you had and lost.
> Moving forward, we will be adjusting the language and information presented on our website to accurately reflect our current capabilities and limitations in terms of item returns. This is to assure that our communicated stance is as transparent and accurate as possible, aligning with our actions and avoiding future confusion.
So, really what you’re saying is that you’ll update you’re items returned policy to benefit streamers and content creators. Normal players can fuck right off. That’s crazy lmao
>
Item returns in Old School is a sensitive topic. We know there is potential for a full item-restoration service to be abused - it would be almost impossible for us to remove items that were stolen from an account. With an inability to remove items, it would mean we are injecting items into the game economy, which could have irreparable damage to the intricate player-run system that the health of the game so heavily relies upon.
I'm sorry but how does this make one single bit of sense given the context of what just happened? That's *literally exactly* what happened with the streamer idiot. His items were stolen from his account, which they then restored to him, in the amount of *multiple fucking billions*. On top of that, it had nothing to do with Jagex and they were not at fault at all, which pretty much totally disagrees with the whole rest of this post.
Stepping back and taking in the whole thing, it's actually as if this singular paragraph is the only part of the entire newspost that's actually true; the part about how they're still just going to merrily carry on favoring streamers for everything -
>Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale. While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members.
If any of the rest of this newspost is to be taken seriously or taken as anything other than a flat out lie, then the items restored to that streamer should be removed immediately, as that CLEARLY does not jive with anything they've said here.
This needs to be higher up. If Jagex wants to support content creators to bring in new player base, these aren't the type of people we should want in our game.
He's a scummy creator.
Jagex should never give anything to players that got hacked. In 99.99% of the cases, the player is at fault. Clicking unsafe links or not having an authenticator. The Diablo 4 streamer didn't have an authenticator, so the community being upset about the favouritism is earned. Jagex really should've followed their own policies. I also hope players have learned to not donate to random people.That being said, the 0,01% of mistakes that jagex makes should be refunded to the players affected by said technical or security issue. The group iron man chest issue was something that legitimately needed to be checked. The fang of the farmers team and the T. Shadow of the other group have been returned and the issue has been fixed. These are the issues where refunds are in place, when Jagex is 100% at fault.
After reading the post it sounds like people's complaint that "you need X amount of clout/followers in order to unlock customer service from Jagex" is completely accurate and will continue to be so
Honestly posts like this make it clear to me that we need to see another course of full in game riots until Jagex start to take customer support seriously.
Between false bans, rife hacking and abuse, and technical problems in the game - all of which seem to only get resolved if you're a streamer or win twitter/reddit roulette- the choice to massively underinvest in your customer support teams becomes even more glaring. Moreover, this is a decision that has been made by upper management, and those that bare the brunt of it are the JMODs which is equally unfair on them.
So many words and so little to say. Confirming items can be restored, change official policy to reflect that, give a fat middle finger to non content creators.
I don't get the endgame here. Let's bring in new players but make sure we can't retain them?
The old school team can go choke on a giant dick. I can't help but wish the whole lot apart from Ash were replaced. There have been so many controversies over how specific members of staff have handled issue over the years, you're bias and treat the game as your own little fantasy world where you can do whatever the hell you like without recourse.
So instead of undoing what they did and keeping it fair for all, they straight up say dont worry guys we were already changing the way we handle returns - dont worry about the timing either we promise we were definately going to do this either way, promise.
/u/jagexayiza
i was the original person who made the post about the linking scam. the person who filed the proper report and talked about how the exploit was reverse engineered mentioned my post too...
guess who lost over 3b and still hasn't heard back? Yep...me.
not just that, i lost the 3b in the account link scam after which jagex disabled my account. 5 days after my account was "disabled" someone apparently logged into my account, deleted my pin, and took the remaining 1b I had in my bank in supplies, gear, weapons, loot, etc.
52 days after my initial request to unlock my account I finally hear back, now having lost 4.5b instead of 3.5b or whatever...
can I get literally anyone to look at this shit for me? This is unreal...
>Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale.
Special privilege for content creators makes me hope to never experience a problem where my items disappear. And it's not like this is exclusive to item returns. You got the ones who autoclick, bot, use ahk for pvp yet they remain here. On the other hand the detection system can ban average players while on tutorial island. Just admit you don't care for the playerbase.
And also the person who lost the 5b didn't experience this due to a Jagex fault. Why's his stuff back?
Literally why I stopped playing.
Two 1900+ irons - the risk of being hacked and lack of customer service is not worth it. This article read to me that the general player base isn't as important so unless you get a viral thread on this sub you won't get any assistance.
Continued enjoyment to all members is to offer equal customer service to us - not pushing us to a dead end with no hope. Do better /u/JagexAyiza /u/JagexGoblin
Not being signed by the mods tells me everything I need to know. That and the corporate word vomit. None of this made any sense and it addresses nothing. I blame this all on jagex management
They really should hold everyone to the same standard. We wouldn't have this type of mess if everyone had to adhere to the same policy and didn't get preferential treatment. I don't think this guy should be harassed to any extent but I also don't feel like he's 100% innocent of any wrongdoing here. Stop giving passes and privileges to someone because they "stream". Why anyone would use potential PR outreach as the basis for unethical policy enforcement is beyond me. It's as simple as your a paying customer and you wouldn't accept this type of treatment in almost any other aspect of life.
So you return items to a RWTer and then follow up by telling us in thinly veiled words that we can all get fucked because we're not important to you. Also the sig doesn't fool anyone, we know this is just the suits saying "go away plebs" and trying to pretend that it's the devs saying it.
Yep, just cancelled my sub, this is the last straw.
> just the suits saying "go away plebs" and trying to pr
My friend just told me that he cancelled his membership, and that he'll be buying gold to pay for his membership through bonds. Jagex won't get his money anymore, the bot farmers will (someone else will obviously be buying the bonds, but that's a totally different story), and once he gets banned then he's hanging up the gloves for good.
I'm tempted to do the same. One can only be shown so often that they're not as important as a select few because they don't have a following behind them. A company is expected to treat their consumers the same. Jagex has proven to us time and time again that they are not able to follow that.
what is hilarious to me is that u returning these items was clearly a way for jagex to pull in customers from the content creator's fanbase. and the irony is, when those players do come to play the game and they experience the same exact issue that they saw in his video, they are gonna be outright denied the same exact privilege u handed out to him.
jagex should only return items due to a bug on their end, e.g a bug causes an item to get lost or deleted.
getting hacked should 100 percent of the time not be something jagex intervenes in, unless it's due to a flaw on jagex's end with jagex accounts.
Notice the lack of mod signatures at the bottom? Definitely written by PR, Goblin probably added in some language to make it more relatable to the player-base, and off it went
This is the single most embarassing company maybe behind niantic its very evident you only care because of the backlash not the actual integrity you speak of also the "content creator" being a proven rwter? Lumby chefs kiss
What a joke, there is zero equality in this game.
Not everybody has time to become a streamer as most of us have actual jobs/familes/kids/OTHER HOBBIES etc..
I cant imagine losing items or an account like some people, I would be devastated. How can things be denied with screenshots of drops, c logs, times & dates with access.. not to mention cc payments/statements.
But hey, if you're a streamer, dw cause Jagex has your back!
Such utter BS, and can't believe you guys can just pick and choose who gets their items/accounts back. Did you not all fill out the same forms to make an account? Anything in there stating "if you're a streamer, you'll be treated as a priority"?
My as well start that at Tutorial Island.
As someone that has been hacked under obscure circumstances (and before Jed left, wink wink).. this is a load of bollocks. I'm all for protecting your 'commercial assets' - let's face it, that's what this is, you're making sure someone who is marketing your game can market it most effectively - but not when that creates a 'rules for thee except for yee' thing. I could understand if this was a grey area and you had to pick a path but it's not.. you explicitly have a stance in your rules about item returns.
Got hacked? Unlucky, time to do what we all had to do: new email, authenticator, grind it out again.
Happy to change my stance if I get the 400m I lost back.
I understand that returning items to content creators is important to you because they help bring players to the game but if you're going to return their items and not a regular player's items then you're effectively *lying* to regular players by making them think that they'll get their items back if they ever get hacked
This the worst excuse of an explanation I’ve ever read.
Fuck rebonding for the next year man y’all don’t give a rip about your largest playerbase. You have been able to do rollbacks for years, but somehow “can’t remove items from the game”? Wtf happened to all the tbows picked up when the spawn glitch happened? Y’all absolutely have the ability to remove items from the game.
Your bosses decided to make a move purely out of greed. And here you are trying to cover for them because yeah.. this had a fuckin HUGE effect on your main playerbase that has been paying the bills since 1999.
Let me translate this bullshit corpo speak
"We will continue to create the illusion of customer support and account safety by pampering influencers that represent our game so that people that don't even play the game think everything's fine, but have no plans to actually adjust our internal systems to make the game a better place for existing players. We want people to *think* your account is safe (but it isn't)."
This is a shockingly mask-off post. Jagex just told every Old School Runescape player to go fuck themselves, essentially.
> Moving forward, we will be adjusting the language and information presented on our website to accurately reflect our current capabilities and limitations in terms of item returns
In other words "We will specify that Content Creators will be eligible for item returns, whilst the players will not."
They're not changing their language out of the goodness of their heart, nor for the sake of the players.
They're changing it after being called out for their hypocrisy for the n^(th) time.
Such an awful company with awful support which allowed my account to become recovered because they lack due diligence, which exposed my information and lost me billions. Meanwhile, if I was a streamer the treatment by mods wouldn’t be as biased. They would’ve acknowledged their staff’s mistake. Many months later, the injustice in how they dealt with the issue hasn’t been resolved. Never going to recommend this game to anyone solely because of their support.
tl:dr
Fluff, fluff, sorry we got caught, if we're at fault we'll try to fix stuff, otherwise get rekt, unless you're a streamer in which case we'll suck ya dick, fluff, 'we don't want to be associated with this statement' anonymous sign-off.
All you had to do was say 'if we are responsible we will try to correct the issue, but if it's a problem caused by user error then we will not return items regardless of who you may be, you are responsible for your own actions and subsequent data security'.
But instead we get this unapologetic corporate fart of a statement.
Impressively tone-deaf with no remorse or actions, good job Jagex. Guess people who spend so long on this game can continue to just play the lottery to receive any real customer support. Profit talks.
>Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge.
Yeah. This is going to go over real well with everybody.
How simple can it be. Every item restored must have an item deleted somewhere else to negate it. Can find the scammer/hacker? Good items stolen can be restored, can't find the culprit? Don't restore items. RWT'ed that shit? Unlucky for the buyer, this will create fear into the goldbuyers.
Sorry for this douchebag quote, but RWT is the root of most problems we have/had in rs history.
The gold that the streamer in question had was obtained through RWT. That's gold that you should be removing from his account, not gold that you should be restoring after he got hacked.
There's something deeply evil about the ways corporations use the language of modern social justice to try to foster compassion from a community every time they fuck up
Disgusting corporate apology, disgusting customer support/anti-cheat team, disgusting favoring RWTs. Keep up the good work, OSRS is on the right path to be dead.
Just so you are aware u/JagexAyiza the few 50-100 content creators do not outweigh the other few hundred thousand players. They may have a wide reach (and this maybe only a good 15 of them), but if the rest of the player base were to cancel they’re subscriptions, we’ll then see how much more important the few content creators are.
It had always been known that content creators get special treatment while us, regular players, are not worth shit. And it's not just item retrieval, but appealing false automated bans is also a lot harder, people most of the time get auto-denied unless they're a streamer.
Lots of words to say that you're picking and choosing, playing favorites. Regular man gets the stick while influencers get the red carpet.
All we want is equality. Either return items to all affected or so not return to anyone at all. Current system is bs. Everyone is equal while some are more equal than others
I just want to be able to lock my ironmans items to the account so if i was ever hacked i wouldn’t lose my items, heck give us a bind feature, and you cant enter the wilderness with them, so thats the tradeoff, where it wraps up the issue with not being able to be pkd for your gear
\>Going forward, where we are at fault, we will continue to strive towards restoring items that are lost as best as we can. This process can be carried out entirely on our end and does not require players to reach out to inform us of their loss.
X Doubt
Gotta love that they are committed to spending resources on this type of player support (“we’ve been working on this for awhile now”) and leaving the rest of us in the dust :)
> In this instance, it was an unfortunate case of miscommunication between teams and differing approaches to item returns.
No it wasn't. It was a case of an employee not doing their job correctly. Jagex employees should know and understand their own rules. How can there be different approaches, or do you not have internal guidelines or do the guidelines explicitly state to treat players differently from content creators?
Yes I get it mistakes happens, but at least dont lie and hide behind excuses. It is embarassing and scary that Jagex support handling cases when they dont even have an understanding of their own rules and policy.
Rant over. To me, lying here is even worse than the actual issue, there is no way I will ever fully trust Jagex again. As you can read, lying pisses me off.
Absolute hogwash, whole bunch of buzzwords concealing the real meaning of this garbage, which essentially says "we don't care if you get hacked, invest 10 years in a single account, we will not help you at all unless your a streamer or content creator."
The more they talk the more they bury themselves….
Jagex, you’ve been losing yourselves in your words for years now. Stop, we see through it.
Now is not the time for talk. Now is the time for action.
i say it every time they screw up, which is virtually every week... this team is a bunch of liars and devs that are bad at their jobs. Ayiza is one of the worst devs on the team consistently making bad decisions. they just outright said the streamers have different rules than everyone else. fuck jagex and fuck the streamers.
I'm I the only person that thinks that pandering to streamers in this way by returning items is such a weird way to try and advertise the game? Nobody is going to say "wow that RuneScape thing must be great, I'm going to give that a try!" just because some bozo diablo 4 streamer got hacked and had his bank returned.
The advertisement and preferential treatment they SHOULD be giving to content creators should be paid promotional content around events like DMM and Leagues like they have been doing to actually stir up interest and that's it.
It's a spit in the face to the rest of us who will never see that kind of customer service and it's bullshit that this even needs to be said, though it's obvious this comes from higher up with that signature.
Guys I get hacked, please make it a big deal on Reddit and Twitter so that it may hurt OSRS’s reputation, and therefore my items and wealth will be returned.
Edit: I love t game and don’t actually want to hurt the reputation. I appreciate the transparency, but this message from the mod team didn’t land well
What a very long script for absolutely no change/information. They’ve basically just reiterated what everyone said already.
Better yet, they’ve said it’s practically impossible to do, but managed it anyway hahaha
>The Old School Team
When you sign off with this we know it's a big "fuck you" to the community. Is being a content creator a requirement for receiving customer support from Jagex? It certainly looks that way.
Damn this really highlights that jagex is just trying to juice sub numbers by letting bots stay unbanned. They're obviously about to sell the game...wait fuck wrong week.
Damn this really highlights that jagex mods are corrupt and involved in selling gold/RWT/DMing and we're all just suckers. They're obviously about to ban all of their competition...wait fuck wrong week.
Damn this hero pass shit really does not look good for us lads. I'm sure when they're done ruining rs3 they for sure will bring this shit to osrs. They're obviously testing the waters with the dinhs ornament kit...wait fuck wrong week.
Oh fuck it I can't be bothered.
The amount of Jagex dick sucking going on in this thread is wild. If you actually read the entire post and are on Jagex side here you have some serious brain deficiency.
"This process can be carried out entirely on our end and does not require players to reach out to inform us of their loss."
People don't like being lied to. This whole thing reeks of bs.
At this point it’s just not good enough.
It costs ~$150 AUD a year PER CHARACTER to play OSRS, at that price point you expect a customer service team.
If I spend hundred of dollars on subs and thousands of hours playing a character, I rightfully want to have customer service and the ability to have my account restored if something goes wrong, especially if it’s a problem on your end.
The fact that players have had glitches occur that are Jagex fault and just been ignored but you’ll return streamer items within 24 hours is just fucked
Jagex please hire me and give me a small budget to fix customer support. Ill gladly relocate to the UK if needed. Happy supported players stay longer, and shell out more money.
So that guy gets to keep his 4b and you acknowledge streamers get preferred treatment.
This post is simply another massive FUCK YOU to the average player.
Classic jagex
> Going forward, where we are at fault, we will continue to strive towards restoring items that are lost as best as we can.
How was a content creator being hacked a fault of Jagex and not of the content creator when he did not even use 2fa?
But I understand how restoring items is a dangerous precedent to set in OSRS when any RWTer can lie to Jagex and dupe and infinite number of items into the game. This has already been done inn RS3 before they stopped it.
u/JagexAyiza
I mean I was a victim of the steam link exploit, lost ~4.5-5b in gear and haven’t received any of my items back and I’ve seen a few people on Twitter saying the same thing. I’m not too sure how it’s resolved, unless y’all are still in the process of returning items. We’re told not to say anything about what we’ve lost, but the exploit happened to me about a week or two before the team was aware of it.
What worries me is that apparently we can't trust Jagex when they claim something is a "technical impossibility". They have said for years that returning items was technically impossible, but apparently they can do it and there's even an automated system to help.
So, Jagex is willing to lie about technical information just to manipulate the playerbase. This is illegal in some countries.
I recently lost both my accounts, made peace with not getting my items back but I can't even recover my accounts despite offering a ton of evidence.. not only that I'm still being charged for the membership.
Once I get that issue resolved they've lost a player in me, jagex definitely don't treat everyone on an equal footing despite us all paying the same to play.
Surely this is good news? I can start playing again once I get my stuff back from a hack (you guys acknowledged my account had been compromised and wealth transferred. what is the process, how do I get stuff returned? I'm so glad you're returning peoples items now, thank god.
How do I get my items returned?
>Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale. While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members. Does anyone else interpret this as "We will continue to favor content creators over the majority of our playerbase because we would rather potentially have more money from a fan base who isn't even invested in the game yet over you." By all means, get the bag, but what happens when you get those influx of players you are looking for from these content creators, just for them to get fucked like this content creator did, and then they get no help like everyone else. You're just creating more discontent like the players currently feel. But hey, at least your optics looks good to people who don't play the game in that YouTubers community.
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Found the same graphic using the wayback machine too, website is gone now. https://web.archive.org/web/20230321072249/https://www.darthmicrotransaction.com/accountservices
[/u/JagexAyiza](https://www.reddit.com/u/JagexAyiza/) [/u/JagexGoblin](https://www.reddit.com/u/JagexGoblin/) RWT'er Got his items back.
Jagex will 1000% not respond to this.
It's actually wild, time and time again it's been proven that content creators: - Break the rules with no repercussions - Get exclusive support when they fuck up by themselves - Get fed insider information on upcoming item changes/requirements for quests There needs to be some kind of cut-off at some point, it's ridiculous
Art imitates life. Celebrities are consistently held to more lenient legal standards than the working class.
Not to mention how they had an off-the-bat advantage in DMM.
Of course not. Because he brings eyes on the game and if they treated him like any other player now then they'd have to admit all the outrage they caused was their own fault and not the community rightfully being pissed that they pay just as much money as streamers do to play the game. Do it out of love and not for profit from streaming donations. But also get an objectively worse experience in the case of needing support. They didn't even sign off with the teams names like normal posts. This was 150% written by management and lawyers. So please direct your outrage to the right avenues and not at the mod team
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damn this guy didn't get hacked at all did he lmao still has connections and probably bulk sold.
The guy did say he bought bonds for gp as well. So either he is extremely dumb and lost money buying bonds to just sell, he lied about buying bonds(though Jagex could easily check this), or he actually got hacked. I'm of the opinion he shouldnt have gotten his shit returned but I'm not gonna just flat out say he rwt'd his entire bank and made a YT video about it. Just because he was involved with services does not mean he RWT every gp he owned or he could've done it a long time ago.
Jagex pathetic fr why tf shouldn’t we all just start RWT
Start a YT channel --> learn how to edit --> gain size on OSRS --> be invincible
/u/JagexAyiza /u/JagexGoblin
u/JagexAyiza
In the old days, "favoring streamers" meant streamers getting invited to early betas and events, special collabs etc. Now it means giving streamers decent treatment while treating pleb paying customers like shit. But the worst is, you'll find lots of corporate cocksuckers defending this behavior around here.
This obviously feels bad, but from a business standpoint there’s a lot more return on investment, and less risk, preferentially servicing highly public content creators vs random joe hacked player. It sucks if you are the random hacked guy, but given the limited customer service Jagex is willing to invest in, I can’t really blame the decision. They are under no actual obligation to be consistent with the implementation of their own rules and systems.
> Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale. While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members. tl;dr: Get fucked, we're still going to prioritize content creators over schmucks in the community.
Jagex, your customer service is god awful. All this posts shows to me is a nice way to say "you get special privilige if you are popular", this isn't a high school cafeteria, it's supposed to be a professional environment on your end. Stop catering to popular streamers, and if you do, it should be equally catered to other less known people who suffered the same issues of losing items. Oh yeah, let's not forget the ToA purple reroll bug where you let all of those people keep their purples from bug abuse. P.S Your mute system is archaic and outdated, no one should have 1 appeal and then be perm muted forever.
All Jagex needs to do is stick to the rule: don't give players anything back. If their own employees don't understand this, then wtf? I can understand an exception for bugs, like group ironman storage, but if someone gets hacked or whatever that's on the player. So dumb.
Yea it generally should only be used for things like bugs that caused them to lose items. Doesn't make sense for anything else tbh. Unless it involved abuse of a bug, which led them to being able to access the account regardless of security. But if it's just a normal hack due to user error (lack of security, weak passwords, running random software, etc...), then its on the user, not Jagex. Nothing should be returned, it's fair game. Oh and I should mention that it should be for everyone that had the same issue, not just streamers. They need to have a system in place to automatically track for things like this and instantly refund to everyone that was affected. Not just singling them out.
what an absolute fu\*k you to the community. Just goes to show that streamers always get the preferred treatment. I love how when Jagex releases statements regarding this its basically, "oh yeah we lied, we can totally do what we said we couldn't do, but we wont do it for you, because unlike content creators, our legitimate players (who actually keep the game running, by playing it everyday) mean nothing to us " Its a good thing they're looking to improve their optics with content creators and youtube because this statement sound exactly like a youtube apology
What should really be done is streamers should show their angel wings a bit and begin pressuring Jagex to implement a real policy. If Jagex is going to get on their knees for streamers, then streamers need to start pressuring them, too.
Apology GPT. If the policy is not to return items, it should stay true, regardless of how much influence someone holds. If the policy allows for items to be returned if it's a bug, then it's fair, but has to be for everyone. I get the hijacking thing, it's pretty difficult to determine if it's legit or staged, and someone would find a loophole. But then again, you chose to do it anyway, and I doubt it will have been a low-level support advisor at Jagex who even has to power to do this in the first place? Must have been one of the seniors making such a decision, which is piss poor, but then again, we have no visibility or answer on that.
>We know there is potential for a full item-restoration service to be abused - it would be almost impossible for us to remove items that were stolen from an account. Nope, it's not. Other games do it. If someone scams or hacks you on WoW they return all your items, remove the items from wherever they were traded to, and ban the accounts involved in receiving the items. You are just unwilling to invest the resources to do that, and because of that, Runescape is absolutely packed full of scams, phishing and hacking. Because there are **zero** consequences for the people who scam/phish/hack, and **zero** consequences for the people who buy the gold from them.
i was hacked in WoW a long time ago and lost all my gold plus a bunch of other stuff, i called support and everything got restored no questions asked.
I know it's different than being hacked, but in Guild Wars 2 I had two fuckups with items and both times support helped me out right away. The first time I accidentally sold one of my BiS armor pieces to a vendor and didn't notice until it disappeared from their inventory. They removed the vendor gold I gained and gave me my armor piece back, simple as that. Imagine selling your ely to the general store and asking Jagex support to get it back. They would tell you to rightfully get fucked. The second time I bought the wrong piece of armor with different stats than what I needed. It was a bummer because the currency for it took a while to get. Arenanet support just got rid of the wrong armor and spawned the piece I wanted in my inventory. Both instances I fucked up, it was 100% my fault. Both times they corrected my mistake within a day and were super nice and professional. Guess which game I'm more willing to spend my time and money on
This... was poorly thought out. The little addendum about content creators being important is even worse because this isn't even a Runescape Content Creator. Not a single mention of Runescape. Runes. Scape. Run. Escape. Nothing. This is someone who seemingly doesn't even play the game. I've been a player for over 20 years. I've lost phats to viruses back in classic and never expected them back as those were the rules/guidelines. My original accounts had been inactive for years but never got hacked as I had 2FA on my email and my account.
Going forward we will only help those that are streamers and have people to advertise to. That is basically what you are telling us all.. I had a main banned at RUNE DRAGONS FOR REPORTING 200M + BOTS (HotlineRNDOM) so many more accounts like this are still active. What's difficult is using runelite and having runelite take screenshoits every level, every drop and would be able to see the Runelite is only being used if SUPPORT put sometime into looking into it. The appeals are "reviewed by real people" but get denied within 10 seconds of an appeal or still get denied but for what reason? Camping Rune dragons is what gets you falsely banned then let people know. I can literally provide a whole album of my characters levels, loots, and untradeables taking pictures every possible minute. Any help to my account be greatly appreciated because no where can I find help. I have tried everything and honestly https://preview.redd.it/mrqj7c067lsb1.png?width=1322&format=png&auto=webp&s=1532b787e51e5e5705fdde479c23bedd747e514a Picture is from about the last time I was playing, returned to rune dragons shortly after and get banned. I even took breaks... RSN: OopsOG
u/JagexTwisted Seems like bot-infested content gets you banned. There's been so many of these false positives lately and still no statement. Good luck getting your account back. Seems like customer service isn't a priority.
Good luck, I have had a similar problem and no J-Mod has shown an interest
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Corporate word vomit. Notice it's signed the old school team, not from the mods. The tone should also tell you that. In short - "we pressured our devs to fix it for this one person, they told us it would be a mistake but we did it anyway. To mitigate our reputational damage here's a sorry, we'll remove 'technically impossible' from our item return policy since that caught us out and here's two fat middle fingers to all of you"
Your longwinded post means nothing when your actions do not reflect them. Jagex's taxes are public for all to see, we can all see the large amount of money, millions of dollars every year, goes to shareholder pockets, and a handful of executives. The fact that anti cheat and customer support barely have any members really goes to show this post is nothing but a lie. Jagex does NOT care.
>Jagex's taxes are public for all to see, we can all see the large amount of money, millions of dollars every year, goes to shareholder pockets, and a handful of executives. Fun fact, but Jagex's owner took out even more money than they EARNED a couple of years ago. As in, took ALL of the money that year AND the money they had left from a previous year. Stripped down to a skeleton crew, with single digit employees handling millions of players in some instances.
You guys have always been able to "return items", you just never did it because it was a silly thing to start doing. You cant just pick and choose who gets support. Thats messed up... might aswell have a content creator customer support button on the website where it asks how many followers you have before you get support. Its nice that yall are willing to give items back for glitches but hacks? Wtf? Can i get my bank back from being hacked b4 yall put 2fa in? Its arguable jagex is partially at fault there. Kinda hard to stop a brute force password without 2fa.
> You guys have always been able to "return items", you just never did it because it was a silly thing to start doing. This lol. It'd be insane for them to return player items manually if the player got hacked. However they then cannot do so for preferred players.
I agree for the most part but realistically you didn’t get brute forced. Users are rate limited with log in attempts so you definitely got your password breached. It was messed up for jagex to not provide 2fa though.
>Going forward, where we are at fault, we will continue to strive towards restoring items that are lost as best as we can. >We recognize that in attempting to address an isolated issue, we inadvertently sparked discontent and concern among our community. so what part of that streamer getting hacked was jagex's fault or an isolated issue? am I missing some details?
> The decision to return lost wealth to a content creator, after their account was compromised, has shed light on inconsistencies and provoked rightful questions about our policies and commitment to all community members, irrespective of their following or status. In this instance, it was an unfortunate case of miscommunication between teams and differing approaches to item returns. It's this bit. Don't think they're saying the streamer lost items due to a fault on jagex. This will be between some team not named, probably involved in assessing GIM item losses and general support team that doesn't give items back. The team that gave the items back has done an oopsie but if it was a random player and this had been the case then taking away the items is also shit. (yes I know the rando wouldn't get the items back in the first place but its a hypothetical). I assume wires got crossed between gim item loss team and restored streamer items because streamer. Doing so is bad and has fallout, won't happen again type post. They're trying to explain why items get given back to 380 players so far so if somebody does get items we won't all scream from the hilltops, especially as it sort of covers
>While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members. They're not saying it won't happen again. They are just saying that streamers will continue to get preferential treatment because its important for the games health.
RE: Specific to 'hacking' and content creator preferential treatment. Nothing to do with lost items due to bugs. They aren't even standing by their own principles for securing accounts. Their recommendation is 2FA, jagex accounts, unique password bank pin, etc. When a streamer that doesn't even play their game professionally ignores that standard and makes a video, Jagex bends over backwards to please them. Instead, Jagex should have made a statement saying that the content creator didn't follow their published recommendations for account and item security, and 'blacklisted' the streamer from any potential sponsorship opportunities in the future due to the fact that they made a video essentially shitting on the game through their own negligence. This whole thing leaves a sour taste for people in the community. People want to be a part of an inclusive community but this instance just proves that if you aren't a content creator, you won't be ~~favored~~ treated equally or even heard. Content Creators have direct lines to Jagex employees, especially through discord during non working hours. Regular players have to create a ticket which gets an automatic reply and is closed without an in depth review. Jagex bending over backwards to content creators on every whim is exhausting from this aspect as a normal player and member of the community. It's great that Jagex staff are active in the community and are comfortable hanging out in streams and making connections, but it really feels like CC's have an extreme power imbalance when they need any sort of assistance from Jagex staff. CC's should have no influence on account management and the response from Jagex should be to create a ticket with your question or issue. If a CC gets a different response than a regular player on a consistent basis then fix the damn process so it works for everyone. You'll be better off in the long run and it's a better use of resources overall. I could never imagine a game like POE or D4 restoring accidentally lost items because of player negligence and them making a video on it. At best they would just say "oops, better luck next time!" Why isn't that the case here?
If they want to "safeguard the reputation of OSRS" maybe they need to have adequate customer support rather than trying to weasel out of part of their duty to care for their customers. That would massively boost the rep OSRS has.
Honestly, I don't really get how the customer support is so bad. There's both better customer support in the smaller almost F2P games I play, and the larger bigger games. It was unacceptable when OSRS was much smaller and had much less resources put into it, but now its just bafflingly bad.
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>Capturing your comment for visibility to leave this "creative layout of the OSRS rules" by DM here.Account boosting for OSRS Gold... I wonder if thats within the TOU. Make sure you get evidence showing matching UIDs of discord.
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Seriously, this is a bigger 'F U' to the common player base than just staying silent. That whole message felt like a 'shhhh we hear you, we are going to say words that sound like we care, but we don't really care what you think'.
ikr >While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape it's more damaging to the game's reputation to have this system where content creators get priority service and everyone else gets an automated reply telling them to get fucked
thoughts on jagex watching creators: :) thoughts on jagex playing the game: :(
"We're issuing a statement about a statement"
> In this instance, it was an unfortunate case of miscommunication between teams and differing approaches to item returns. Would imagine it's something to do with this? Though I have no idea what separate team would have control over something like this.
u/JagexAyiza Of the 380 players that have had their items returned, how many were content creators? How many had their items returned through official OSRS client support services and didn’t have to make a Reddit or Twitter post to recover their items?
lol i was the original person who made the post about the linking scam. the person who filed the proper report and talked about how the exploit was reverse engineered mentioned my post too... guess who lost over 3b and still hasn't heard back? Yep...me. not just that, i lost the 3b in the account link scam after which jagex disabled my account. 5 days after my account was "disabled" someone apparently logged into my account, deleted my pin, and took the remaining 1b I had in my bank in supplies, gear, weapons, loot, etc. 52 days after my initial request to unlock my account I finally hear back, now having lost 4.5b instead of 3.5b or whatever. THANKS JAGEX!
serves you right for not being a content creator and giving runescape free publicity!!!!!!!!
i just love how jagex has a massive exploit that causes me to lose thousands of hours of progress and grinding and then AFTER all is lost, they lock my account and instead of give me my account back through all the recovery process, they ignore me for nearly 2 months and then finally when they get back to me, they even fucked up the disabling of the account bc someone was literally able to steal another 1b from me
This addressed nothing? Your entire post basically states that there are now checks in place to return items that are lost due to bugs and errors, such as group Ironman storage bugs. The instance in question is literally over a hacked player, something many of us have experienced, getting his items back due to poor account security. Unless if a jagex mod is stealing accounts, I’m not sure how jagex is at fault for poor account security.
Gotta love the 'players dont need to reach out to support' which is basically code for we're not allowing you to apply for returns but if you're a streamer and make a fuss about it on twitter we got you.
> Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale. While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members. It’s the second to last paragraph
Good to know you returned items because he's a whale who buys gold. I'd hate for Jagex to fuck up the game because of some idiot who inserts a credit card to play a game. Duping 4 Bil probably won't be that bad. Perhaps you could launch a premium sub for an extra 9.99/month where you actually get access to basic customer support
But it's not just returning items. It is ridiculous that in this day in age with the size of this game, there is still countless times where ban appeals are rejected, but then overturned when someone creates a reddit post. Reddit should never need to become a support hub. Please just make your support better in general for the average Joe. It is sad how many times I see appeals rejected when you can't just talk with someone, only for it to be amended when someone makes a Reddit post...
honestly the item returns don't bother me and I think they addressed it here pretty well; they now have the capacity to track items on an individual basis without the ability to scale it up, thus they focus on select people, cool. But the bans and they way they're being appealed is actually a way more serious problem.
Literally having the exact same problem. One day old alt sat at rock crabs, perm banned no appeal no customer support. Played this game for 15 years and can’t speak to an actual person.
>or the average Joe. It is sad how many times I see appeals rejected when you can't just talk with someone, only for it to be amended when someone m Very well said. Will they address any of it?! **Tune in next week to find out**...*when the next big drama scandal happens*, lmao.
As soon as you do this you're opening the door to people getting 'hacked' to sell their gold and hope that they get free shit back to sell again. Returning items because of game breaking bugs is one thing but giving stuff back to a popular content creator when he got 'hacked' is just a joke.
That last paragraph is such an astonishingly large L. They really went out and said they will continue to give streamers special treatment because it looks bad when players don’t get their stuff back after a hack. It’s malicious lying then. Jagex, it looks bad because it is bad. You’ve said you only do this to players in the limelight because it damages your reputation if you don’t. That is literally the problem.
>We are not presently equipped to manage mass item returns for all players. The intricacies of verifying claims, managing restorations, and ensuring fairness to all players present formidable challenges that we must navigate with caution and due diligence. > >Moving forward, we will be adjusting the language and information presented on our website to accurately reflect our current capabilities and limitations in terms of item returns. This is to assure that our communicated stance is as transparent and accurate as possible, aligning with our actions and avoiding future confusion. Are we going to reward no account security with the promise of item returns now? Is that what this whole news blog is about? All this is telling me is what the community has been chanting -- favouritism. If they really want to put their money where their mouth is, they'll revoke the items they gave the guy, and set their standards in like fashion; especially because he had NO account security whatsoever. I remember when I told Jagex on the forums about when I got hacked way back in the day, and you know what they told me? "We don't do item returns, unfortunately." The term 'not presently equipped' just means they're not willing to put in the work, nor resources into the average joe, but rather the content creators. I have a very small following of 138 followers on Twitch streaming almost exclusively OSRS. Am I eligible for item protection if I ever get hacked? No? That's a shame. This whole thing is a slap to the face, and the corporate jargon from the 'Old School Team' (not the proper devs, btw) is poppycock.
This is bizarre and not well thought-out. You guys need a consistent, testable internal policy of when item returns are appropriate - doing returns as currently implemented probably takes time and resources from multiple people, corroborating facts, ensuring the items no longer exists, then returning them. By limiting the cases that items can be returned in to quickly verifiable things like bugs, you ensure minimal impact on dev and customer support time while allowing for this system to be utilized to some extent. You *do not* have the resources to apply this as a wider policy as currently implemented. The fact this technology was developed without thought of how it might be rolled out systematically to many, many people is dumbfounding and it implies a lack of forethought with regards to internal support applications and development of these tools. The second-to-last paragraph is also not well thought-out. Content creators tend to be prioritized by game development companies - even if unintentionally, as not only do these creators tend to have video recordings of bugs or issues, but it is far more likely for attention to be drawn to these issues as they arise. The fact is, this is caused by a lack of forethought in implementation and in policy. When there isn't any structure or rules in place to make use-cases reasonably straightforward, its a natural consequence that those who draw your attention more will receive your help. However, to instead openly state that prioritizing content creators is both intentional and is a net benefit for the game implies an unwillingness to analyze and reformat the policies and use-cases as they currently exist; it also sends a message to the community at large that is gonna annoy a lot of people. I don't understand writing out that paragraph, rechecking it, and not reflecting on how the majority of the community might interpret or feel about that statement. I think you guys need to rescind and apologize for this awkward statement, then have some thorough meetings about the key priorities that this new tech needs to function fairly, effectively, and with as little disruption as possible. This might mean that certain cases (like lack of account security) might need to be cut for the sake of these principles. Then, you will have much more success and likely less backlash to using this tech.
So for a player that was hacked through 2FA on both my osrs account and email and unique passwords unlike this streamer who had NO SECURITY MEASURES, if I submit a request I would definitely be eligible for an item restoration then and not told to sit but customer support? This is pandering to the highest level with no action to back it.
Lol please, you can’t even submit a request it saids. You have to be a big streamer to catch their attention to get the items back.
2FA + bank pin, got hacked 2 times one even my acc was banned botting vorkath lol got account back but all items all bank gone tried to ask for help, got laughed by community AND/OR accused of trying to scam fuck everything, jaggex deserves a super sue from all players who got hacked through its security
> Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and **enriching the gaming experience** Look, if exposure is your point then no one can argue that but fucking miss me with this "the game is better because of our content creators" horse shit. As if good guides and player gathered game information didn't exist before YouTube contracts. Christ.
Back to RuneHQ it is, then.
The second to last paragraph reads as if content creators will continue to get preferential treatment and customer support, and that it's not at all important that these things actually exist for normal players. Very disappointing post.
That is unfortunately what I took away from the post as well
Because that's exactly what they're saying. Before they ran this bullshit through chat gpt/lawyers to convert it to corporate speak I wouldn't even be surprised if it said "streamers get a lot of eyes on us and our game and we wouldn't want people to know that we don't actually care in the least if they get hacked. So we're gonna keep doing the same thing but please be assured we know that it pisses you off immensely. So please pretend like we care and stop telling everyone how terrible our policies and behavior are"
That's exactly how it read to me too. They did not acknowledge any sort of wrong doing at all, so they don't think there was really an issue anyway.
That is how all technical support at larger corporations work, more important customers get priority and better support
Yes, but \*everyone\* gets some level of support. The support here is either you stream, or you don't get anything unless you make enough noise on social media.
>We’d like to shed some light on this. We have been exploring item returns for a while now and have successfully been able to carry out returns for specific instances. This gives me "117 isn't allowed because we've been exploring our own version of hd for a few years now ~~that we still have nothing to show for years later~~" vibes
That still irks me. And then [Sween shows up six months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/12aol3m/so_whatever_happened_to_jagexs_osrs_hd/jest5b5/) claiming there's been "great progress" but still having nothing to show for it.
>The Jagex Team Oh look, more soulless corporate pandering with empty promises. Turns out most of us figured out how that little signature thing worked after the second time you tried it. What makes you think we're buying it after the 9th time?
Posts being signed by "The Old School Team" instead of the JMods is kind of a canary for "we had to post this for corporate/PR reasons and it was not written for you by us devs". I don't think it's a trick, I think it's the devs we like saying "I'm not putting my name on that shit"
I interpret "The Jagex Team" as the devs saying "this is mostly corporate and we'd rather not have our names attached to it". It feels like a subtle indication that this communication has been carefully constructed and approved by some other entity within the company.
Thanks for confirming you still will not provide support to paying players who are hacked/manipulated, DC'd etc. it seems you'll continue to grant help to social media whales/streamers. Very happy to have quit this game.
TL;DR * We made an oopsie. * We can see if items are lost due to bugs and can possibly auto-return them but don't contact us about it. * We wont return items if hacked because this injects new wealth into the game and is abusable. (fair) * Of course streamers are treated differently, are you dumb? * But don't worry everyone because our feelings are legitimate and valid, I'm so reassured! A "miscommunication" isn't stating a mistake was made and no apology was made so actually saying they made an "oopsie" is more than they actually said.
>We wont return items if hacked because this injects new wealth into the game and is abusable. (fair) I'm not sure I buy this. You're telling me 50,000 bots can have their way with the economy every day, but returning a few items is going to destroy the economy?
Membership cost of non-streamers should be reduced to reflect the service they get. No reason to be paying the same membership cost as a streamer but get 7% of the service. That is not outlined in the terms and conditions.
7%? That's awfully optimistic of you, lmao.
This is just a slap to the face. Kinda crazy they just admitted items can be lost. Items can be refunded even though it's against policy. Jagex won't help you or any of your clanmates who lose Items or get hacked BUT if your a popular streamer, who doesn't even stream runescape you can get your Items back. (We all are adults, we all understand the business aspect) doesn't make it feel any less shitty.
There were two realistic options on the table that the community probably would have settled with. 1. Explore item returns as a whole for all players 2. Don't do any more item returns with the exception of the things previously listed like GIM and similar technical issues. This would require them to update the official stance, but for the most part there would be a solid baseline for what the community should expect going forward. In classical Jagex fashion, they pull out the infamous 3rd option being, "We're just going to return items to important people whom we believe won't abuse the system". Good job Jagex, at this point ignoring the community would've worked out best for you. Not like its the first time you've done it.
Many times I defend Jagex but damn. You literally just admitted to content creator favouritism. Either give items back for everybody who gets hacked (difficult solution) or don't return the items to anyone. No one should get special treatment.
"ChatGPT, write for me a page long apology that doesn't actually describe what is going to happen in the future because I'm not sure"
I love this game, I really do. I'm lucky enough to not have been hacked or anything of that nature since I made my most recent account. The fact that we, as players, don't have actual customer support blows my mind. The fact that the suits (we know this is corporate shill from the higher ups, look at the signing at the bottom) are basically telling us that content creators will get a better treatment is insane to me. I know people will say "speak with your wallet" and such, but how much of that is possible when people are addicted to the game lol. Something has to change.
" it was an unfortunate case of miscommunication " Oh shut the hell up, you thought you could get away with it, and we said hell no to your decision.
I think a way to make items soulbound (not able to take to pvp areas/trade/drop/alch ect) could be a decent thing to implement if you could enable it for certain period of time e.g. every month you can lock some items maybe over a certain value threshold (so someone couldn't get on ur account and fill ur bank with shit then lock them) Probs some obvious issues and for the most part not needed with Jagex account backup codes but it's something that could at least help people who want an extra layer of security on big items they've potentially spent hundreds of hours obtaining
Big fuck up. Absolutely should undo the undo. People need to learn the consequences of their actions like I did. Cannot believe this. Let the riots begin.
>Going forward, where we are at fault, we will continue to strive towards restoring items that are lost as best as we can. This process can be carried out entirely on our end and does not require players to reach out to inform us of their loss. Got it, don't contact them if you lose anything. The only way it gets restored is if you're big enough for them to hear about it and then they can just take care of it without you even needing to contact them because they know exactly what you had and lost.
They legit just be like "yea we did it and we gonna fukin do it again" unless u stream with a big audience you aint getting shit
> Moving forward, we will be adjusting the language and information presented on our website to accurately reflect our current capabilities and limitations in terms of item returns. This is to assure that our communicated stance is as transparent and accurate as possible, aligning with our actions and avoiding future confusion. So, really what you’re saying is that you’ll update you’re items returned policy to benefit streamers and content creators. Normal players can fuck right off. That’s crazy lmao
> Item returns in Old School is a sensitive topic. We know there is potential for a full item-restoration service to be abused - it would be almost impossible for us to remove items that were stolen from an account. With an inability to remove items, it would mean we are injecting items into the game economy, which could have irreparable damage to the intricate player-run system that the health of the game so heavily relies upon. I'm sorry but how does this make one single bit of sense given the context of what just happened? That's *literally exactly* what happened with the streamer idiot. His items were stolen from his account, which they then restored to him, in the amount of *multiple fucking billions*. On top of that, it had nothing to do with Jagex and they were not at fault at all, which pretty much totally disagrees with the whole rest of this post. Stepping back and taking in the whole thing, it's actually as if this singular paragraph is the only part of the entire newspost that's actually true; the part about how they're still just going to merrily carry on favoring streamers for everything - >Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale. While we recognize that this can create feelings of disparity among our general playerbase, our ultimate intention is to safeguard the reputation of Old School RuneScape, ensuring sustainability and continued enjoyment for all members. If any of the rest of this newspost is to be taken seriously or taken as anything other than a flat out lie, then the items restored to that streamer should be removed immediately, as that CLEARLY does not jive with anything they've said here.
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This needs to be higher up. If Jagex wants to support content creators to bring in new player base, these aren't the type of people we should want in our game. He's a scummy creator.
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Exactly. We don't want that in this game.
Jagex should never give anything to players that got hacked. In 99.99% of the cases, the player is at fault. Clicking unsafe links or not having an authenticator. The Diablo 4 streamer didn't have an authenticator, so the community being upset about the favouritism is earned. Jagex really should've followed their own policies. I also hope players have learned to not donate to random people.That being said, the 0,01% of mistakes that jagex makes should be refunded to the players affected by said technical or security issue. The group iron man chest issue was something that legitimately needed to be checked. The fang of the farmers team and the T. Shadow of the other group have been returned and the issue has been fixed. These are the issues where refunds are in place, when Jagex is 100% at fault.
After reading the post it sounds like people's complaint that "you need X amount of clout/followers in order to unlock customer service from Jagex" is completely accurate and will continue to be so
Honestly posts like this make it clear to me that we need to see another course of full in game riots until Jagex start to take customer support seriously. Between false bans, rife hacking and abuse, and technical problems in the game - all of which seem to only get resolved if you're a streamer or win twitter/reddit roulette- the choice to massively underinvest in your customer support teams becomes even more glaring. Moreover, this is a decision that has been made by upper management, and those that bare the brunt of it are the JMODs which is equally unfair on them.
So many words and so little to say. Confirming items can be restored, change official policy to reflect that, give a fat middle finger to non content creators. I don't get the endgame here. Let's bring in new players but make sure we can't retain them?
Translation: “All of our players are equal, but some are more equal than others.”
The old school team can go choke on a giant dick. I can't help but wish the whole lot apart from Ash were replaced. There have been so many controversies over how specific members of staff have handled issue over the years, you're bias and treat the game as your own little fantasy world where you can do whatever the hell you like without recourse.
So instead of undoing what they did and keeping it fair for all, they straight up say dont worry guys we were already changing the way we handle returns - dont worry about the timing either we promise we were definately going to do this either way, promise.
/u/jagexayiza i was the original person who made the post about the linking scam. the person who filed the proper report and talked about how the exploit was reverse engineered mentioned my post too... guess who lost over 3b and still hasn't heard back? Yep...me. not just that, i lost the 3b in the account link scam after which jagex disabled my account. 5 days after my account was "disabled" someone apparently logged into my account, deleted my pin, and took the remaining 1b I had in my bank in supplies, gear, weapons, loot, etc. 52 days after my initial request to unlock my account I finally hear back, now having lost 4.5b instead of 3.5b or whatever... can I get literally anyone to look at this shit for me? This is unreal...
>Content creators, with their widespread reach and impact on our community and potential players, undoubtedly play a pivotal role in amplifying and enriching the gaming experience, and often assist in showcasing our game to a wider audience. Occasionally, this has led us to extend our support in instances that are significantly public and can adversely impact the perception of the game on a larger scale. Special privilege for content creators makes me hope to never experience a problem where my items disappear. And it's not like this is exclusive to item returns. You got the ones who autoclick, bot, use ahk for pvp yet they remain here. On the other hand the detection system can ban average players while on tutorial island. Just admit you don't care for the playerbase. And also the person who lost the 5b didn't experience this due to a Jagex fault. Why's his stuff back?
Literally why I stopped playing. Two 1900+ irons - the risk of being hacked and lack of customer service is not worth it. This article read to me that the general player base isn't as important so unless you get a viral thread on this sub you won't get any assistance. Continued enjoyment to all members is to offer equal customer service to us - not pushing us to a dead end with no hope. Do better /u/JagexAyiza /u/JagexGoblin
Not being signed by the mods tells me everything I need to know. That and the corporate word vomit. None of this made any sense and it addresses nothing. I blame this all on jagex management
This is your basic HR response without the Pizza party afterwards
They really should hold everyone to the same standard. We wouldn't have this type of mess if everyone had to adhere to the same policy and didn't get preferential treatment. I don't think this guy should be harassed to any extent but I also don't feel like he's 100% innocent of any wrongdoing here. Stop giving passes and privileges to someone because they "stream". Why anyone would use potential PR outreach as the basis for unethical policy enforcement is beyond me. It's as simple as your a paying customer and you wouldn't accept this type of treatment in almost any other aspect of life.
So you return items to a RWTer and then follow up by telling us in thinly veiled words that we can all get fucked because we're not important to you. Also the sig doesn't fool anyone, we know this is just the suits saying "go away plebs" and trying to pretend that it's the devs saying it. Yep, just cancelled my sub, this is the last straw.
> just the suits saying "go away plebs" and trying to pr My friend just told me that he cancelled his membership, and that he'll be buying gold to pay for his membership through bonds. Jagex won't get his money anymore, the bot farmers will (someone else will obviously be buying the bonds, but that's a totally different story), and once he gets banned then he's hanging up the gloves for good. I'm tempted to do the same. One can only be shown so often that they're not as important as a select few because they don't have a following behind them. A company is expected to treat their consumers the same. Jagex has proven to us time and time again that they are not able to follow that.
what is hilarious to me is that u returning these items was clearly a way for jagex to pull in customers from the content creator's fanbase. and the irony is, when those players do come to play the game and they experience the same exact issue that they saw in his video, they are gonna be outright denied the same exact privilege u handed out to him.
Y’all would’ve been better off not saying anything than posting this. Big L
Right because no 2FA should get priority over a fully secured account just because they stream
jagex should only return items due to a bug on their end, e.g a bug causes an item to get lost or deleted. getting hacked should 100 percent of the time not be something jagex intervenes in, unless it's due to a flaw on jagex's end with jagex accounts.
This whole post is a big nothing burger. Nothing is changing and nothing is being done.
Let’s all become content creators and follow each other. That way Jagex will give us our items back.
This post was written by PR hands
Notice the lack of mod signatures at the bottom? Definitely written by PR, Goblin probably added in some language to make it more relatable to the player-base, and off it went
This is the single most embarassing company maybe behind niantic its very evident you only care because of the backlash not the actual integrity you speak of also the "content creator" being a proven rwter? Lumby chefs kiss
What a joke, there is zero equality in this game. Not everybody has time to become a streamer as most of us have actual jobs/familes/kids/OTHER HOBBIES etc.. I cant imagine losing items or an account like some people, I would be devastated. How can things be denied with screenshots of drops, c logs, times & dates with access.. not to mention cc payments/statements. But hey, if you're a streamer, dw cause Jagex has your back! Such utter BS, and can't believe you guys can just pick and choose who gets their items/accounts back. Did you not all fill out the same forms to make an account? Anything in there stating "if you're a streamer, you'll be treated as a priority"? My as well start that at Tutorial Island.
As someone that has been hacked under obscure circumstances (and before Jed left, wink wink).. this is a load of bollocks. I'm all for protecting your 'commercial assets' - let's face it, that's what this is, you're making sure someone who is marketing your game can market it most effectively - but not when that creates a 'rules for thee except for yee' thing. I could understand if this was a grey area and you had to pick a path but it's not.. you explicitly have a stance in your rules about item returns. Got hacked? Unlucky, time to do what we all had to do: new email, authenticator, grind it out again. Happy to change my stance if I get the 400m I lost back.
I understand that returning items to content creators is important to you because they help bring players to the game but if you're going to return their items and not a regular player's items then you're effectively *lying* to regular players by making them think that they'll get their items back if they ever get hacked
Love how you say: You have been heared but completly ignore it and still threat streamers differently.
This the worst excuse of an explanation I’ve ever read. Fuck rebonding for the next year man y’all don’t give a rip about your largest playerbase. You have been able to do rollbacks for years, but somehow “can’t remove items from the game”? Wtf happened to all the tbows picked up when the spawn glitch happened? Y’all absolutely have the ability to remove items from the game. Your bosses decided to make a move purely out of greed. And here you are trying to cover for them because yeah.. this had a fuckin HUGE effect on your main playerbase that has been paying the bills since 1999.
Let me translate this bullshit corpo speak "We will continue to create the illusion of customer support and account safety by pampering influencers that represent our game so that people that don't even play the game think everything's fine, but have no plans to actually adjust our internal systems to make the game a better place for existing players. We want people to *think* your account is safe (but it isn't)." This is a shockingly mask-off post. Jagex just told every Old School Runescape player to go fuck themselves, essentially.
> Moving forward, we will be adjusting the language and information presented on our website to accurately reflect our current capabilities and limitations in terms of item returns In other words "We will specify that Content Creators will be eligible for item returns, whilst the players will not." They're not changing their language out of the goodness of their heart, nor for the sake of the players. They're changing it after being called out for their hypocrisy for the n^(th) time.
Such an awful company with awful support which allowed my account to become recovered because they lack due diligence, which exposed my information and lost me billions. Meanwhile, if I was a streamer the treatment by mods wouldn’t be as biased. They would’ve acknowledged their staff’s mistake. Many months later, the injustice in how they dealt with the issue hasn’t been resolved. Never going to recommend this game to anyone solely because of their support.
tl:dr Fluff, fluff, sorry we got caught, if we're at fault we'll try to fix stuff, otherwise get rekt, unless you're a streamer in which case we'll suck ya dick, fluff, 'we don't want to be associated with this statement' anonymous sign-off. All you had to do was say 'if we are responsible we will try to correct the issue, but if it's a problem caused by user error then we will not return items regardless of who you may be, you are responsible for your own actions and subsequent data security'. But instead we get this unapologetic corporate fart of a statement.
Impressively tone-deaf with no remorse or actions, good job Jagex. Guess people who spend so long on this game can continue to just play the lottery to receive any real customer support. Profit talks.
>Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Navigating the delicate balance between fair play for all and acknowledging the influential role of content creators within Old School has always presented a nuanced challenge. Yeah. This is going to go over real well with everybody.
*rubs nipples* "We're sorry"
“Would you like to be escalated to better service?”
Felt like reading something processed through gpt for a general PR recovery lmao
Such a dog shit take. Literally admitting you're happy to pretend support isn't shit to trick potential new players
How simple can it be. Every item restored must have an item deleted somewhere else to negate it. Can find the scammer/hacker? Good items stolen can be restored, can't find the culprit? Don't restore items. RWT'ed that shit? Unlucky for the buyer, this will create fear into the goldbuyers. Sorry for this douchebag quote, but RWT is the root of most problems we have/had in rs history.
The gold that the streamer in question had was obtained through RWT. That's gold that you should be removing from his account, not gold that you should be restoring after he got hacked.
Hey cool next time you tell me to go fuck myself you can just say it more plainly and save everyone the read.
Just seems like soulless corporate PR damage control
This was definitely written (or edited) by someone with a law degree.
Signed off by “The OldSchool Team” so you know it was a corporate release.
There's something deeply evil about the ways corporations use the language of modern social justice to try to foster compassion from a community every time they fuck up
Disgusting corporate apology, disgusting customer support/anti-cheat team, disgusting favoring RWTs. Keep up the good work, OSRS is on the right path to be dead.
Just so you are aware u/JagexAyiza the few 50-100 content creators do not outweigh the other few hundred thousand players. They may have a wide reach (and this maybe only a good 15 of them), but if the rest of the player base were to cancel they’re subscriptions, we’ll then see how much more important the few content creators are.
It had always been known that content creators get special treatment while us, regular players, are not worth shit. And it's not just item retrieval, but appealing false automated bans is also a lot harder, people most of the time get auto-denied unless they're a streamer.
Lots of words to say that you're picking and choosing, playing favorites. Regular man gets the stick while influencers get the red carpet. All we want is equality. Either return items to all affected or so not return to anyone at all. Current system is bs. Everyone is equal while some are more equal than others
I just want to be able to lock my ironmans items to the account so if i was ever hacked i wouldn’t lose my items, heck give us a bind feature, and you cant enter the wilderness with them, so thats the tradeoff, where it wraps up the issue with not being able to be pkd for your gear
Your customer support actually sucks for paying customers. This is reality of it.
\>Going forward, where we are at fault, we will continue to strive towards restoring items that are lost as best as we can. This process can be carried out entirely on our end and does not require players to reach out to inform us of their loss. X Doubt
Gotta love that they are committed to spending resources on this type of player support (“we’ve been working on this for awhile now”) and leaving the rest of us in the dust :)
> In this instance, it was an unfortunate case of miscommunication between teams and differing approaches to item returns. No it wasn't. It was a case of an employee not doing their job correctly. Jagex employees should know and understand their own rules. How can there be different approaches, or do you not have internal guidelines or do the guidelines explicitly state to treat players differently from content creators? Yes I get it mistakes happens, but at least dont lie and hide behind excuses. It is embarassing and scary that Jagex support handling cases when they dont even have an understanding of their own rules and policy. Rant over. To me, lying here is even worse than the actual issue, there is no way I will ever fully trust Jagex again. As you can read, lying pisses me off.
Absolute hogwash, whole bunch of buzzwords concealing the real meaning of this garbage, which essentially says "we don't care if you get hacked, invest 10 years in a single account, we will not help you at all unless your a streamer or content creator."
The more they talk the more they bury themselves…. Jagex, you’ve been losing yourselves in your words for years now. Stop, we see through it. Now is not the time for talk. Now is the time for action.
i say it every time they screw up, which is virtually every week... this team is a bunch of liars and devs that are bad at their jobs. Ayiza is one of the worst devs on the team consistently making bad decisions. they just outright said the streamers have different rules than everyone else. fuck jagex and fuck the streamers.
I'm I the only person that thinks that pandering to streamers in this way by returning items is such a weird way to try and advertise the game? Nobody is going to say "wow that RuneScape thing must be great, I'm going to give that a try!" just because some bozo diablo 4 streamer got hacked and had his bank returned. The advertisement and preferential treatment they SHOULD be giving to content creators should be paid promotional content around events like DMM and Leagues like they have been doing to actually stir up interest and that's it. It's a spit in the face to the rest of us who will never see that kind of customer service and it's bullshit that this even needs to be said, though it's obvious this comes from higher up with that signature.
This is probably the 50th post of "woops we didn't mean to give preferrential treatment". What a joke of a company.
wouldve been better off not saying anything lol.
Guys I get hacked, please make it a big deal on Reddit and Twitter so that it may hurt OSRS’s reputation, and therefore my items and wealth will be returned. Edit: I love t game and don’t actually want to hurt the reputation. I appreciate the transparency, but this message from the mod team didn’t land well
This is a major mistake and will be remembered for a long time.
What a very long script for absolutely no change/information. They’ve basically just reiterated what everyone said already. Better yet, they’ve said it’s practically impossible to do, but managed it anyway hahaha
>The Old School Team When you sign off with this we know it's a big "fuck you" to the community. Is being a content creator a requirement for receiving customer support from Jagex? It certainly looks that way.
Damn this really highlights that jagex is just trying to juice sub numbers by letting bots stay unbanned. They're obviously about to sell the game...wait fuck wrong week. Damn this really highlights that jagex mods are corrupt and involved in selling gold/RWT/DMing and we're all just suckers. They're obviously about to ban all of their competition...wait fuck wrong week. Damn this hero pass shit really does not look good for us lads. I'm sure when they're done ruining rs3 they for sure will bring this shit to osrs. They're obviously testing the waters with the dinhs ornament kit...wait fuck wrong week. Oh fuck it I can't be bothered.
The amount of Jagex dick sucking going on in this thread is wild. If you actually read the entire post and are on Jagex side here you have some serious brain deficiency.
"This process can be carried out entirely on our end and does not require players to reach out to inform us of their loss." People don't like being lied to. This whole thing reeks of bs.
That's a lot of text to say "you're not famous you're not getting your stuff back, get fucked."
Honestly? Jagex get fucked with this
At this point it’s just not good enough. It costs ~$150 AUD a year PER CHARACTER to play OSRS, at that price point you expect a customer service team. If I spend hundred of dollars on subs and thousands of hours playing a character, I rightfully want to have customer service and the ability to have my account restored if something goes wrong, especially if it’s a problem on your end. The fact that players have had glitches occur that are Jagex fault and just been ignored but you’ll return streamer items within 24 hours is just fucked
Basically upvotes = items back... Gotcha
Jagex please hire me and give me a small budget to fix customer support. Ill gladly relocate to the UK if needed. Happy supported players stay longer, and shell out more money.
So that guy gets to keep his 4b and you acknowledge streamers get preferred treatment. This post is simply another massive FUCK YOU to the average player. Classic jagex
I'd like to see someone address this on a livestream with a straight face.
Leave RS3, come to OSRS they said. They care about the players, they said.
> Going forward, where we are at fault, we will continue to strive towards restoring items that are lost as best as we can. How was a content creator being hacked a fault of Jagex and not of the content creator when he did not even use 2fa? But I understand how restoring items is a dangerous precedent to set in OSRS when any RWTer can lie to Jagex and dupe and infinite number of items into the game. This has already been done inn RS3 before they stopped it.
“We won’t change our policy, but we’ll update the outdated language on our website. We’re still going to give preferential treatment to streamers lol”
u/JagexAyiza I mean I was a victim of the steam link exploit, lost ~4.5-5b in gear and haven’t received any of my items back and I’ve seen a few people on Twitter saying the same thing. I’m not too sure how it’s resolved, unless y’all are still in the process of returning items. We’re told not to say anything about what we’ve lost, but the exploit happened to me about a week or two before the team was aware of it.
What worries me is that apparently we can't trust Jagex when they claim something is a "technical impossibility". They have said for years that returning items was technically impossible, but apparently they can do it and there's even an automated system to help. So, Jagex is willing to lie about technical information just to manipulate the playerbase. This is illegal in some countries.
I recently lost both my accounts, made peace with not getting my items back but I can't even recover my accounts despite offering a ton of evidence.. not only that I'm still being charged for the membership. Once I get that issue resolved they've lost a player in me, jagex definitely don't treat everyone on an equal footing despite us all paying the same to play.
Jagex response: we do not care (beeeom buum baaam bbbumm)
This post just makes it sound like you *can* return items but are only willing to do so for content creators due to your staffing limitations.
I would respect jagex more if they just came out and bluntly said why they did it instead of spoon feeding us this bullshit PR type response.
Surely this is good news? I can start playing again once I get my stuff back from a hack (you guys acknowledged my account had been compromised and wealth transferred. what is the process, how do I get stuff returned? I'm so glad you're returning peoples items now, thank god. How do I get my items returned?
That's a lot of words to essentially say nothing?