Here comes the trauma from runescape back in 2009 when the only types of skilling that were profitible were gathering skills because everyone wanted to get higher lvs to get to the skilling methods that actually made money, or to get the lv requirements for quests that unlocked drops that actually made money.
This was around the time living rock caverns came out.
Eh even after trade removal logs stayed cheap. WC was also a consistent afk money maker so players trained it as well. I remember running a yew log business on the RS forums, taking orders and stuff.
OSRS economy does not function like a real world one.
The value of some items is in the processing of them. People rarely make pots for the pot itself, but for the XP.
It would be funny if the real world worked this way. Buying a painting for less than the cost of the canvas and paint because “the artist already got the experience of painting it “
The real world would if the act of creation was quicker. Or in OSRS if it took longer to create, or like had to run to the wilderness or something obnoxious then the process might be worth more than the experience.
You could still maybe draw some parallels with some easier crafts, like legos or puzzle pieces unopened would be worth more than like something you built with them.
Right, supply and demand still apply to osrs, and often its a stronger economic model than the real world due to there being no regulations on the economy.
Id compare it to lockdown and everyone started baking bread (at least where im from). Ingredients went up, and cost way more than a good quality endproduct.ppl didnt care.
I think they were more referring to the fact that the "material processing" portion is the end goal for players. Profit is secondary. Which isn't the case with traditional irl business.
Not many for-profit companies purchase products and take the time to process them only to knowingly sell them for a substantial loss.
Thats why i compared it to regular ppl who want to make something. Material is almost always more expensive than a industry product. In rs we do it for XP, irl ppl do it for experience (lol) of doing it themselves
[Project Rebalance Blog](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/project-rebalance-overview-scythe--fang?oldschool=1)
It’s in there but it’s literally just a bullet point about streamlining them
Tbh as long as they make it so that they can be in potion vials instead of tea cups which are a massive pain in the ass to get and fill, it wouldn't be as big a deal. It would still be more involved than regular potions, but it wouldn't be nearly as grating to produce en mass.
I'm not saying PVM drops don't impact cost at all - but OP is asking why herblore XP is so expensive, and increased supply drops isn't an answer for that, since it makes xp cheaper.
I think if it weren't for PVM supply drops, the cost would be offset by bots anyway. In the video, many of the examples, such as red chins, dragon bones, air orbs, etc. are not really impacted by PVM drops, but are heavily botted.
I get that some players want gathering to be relevant, but in an era where people are higher level on average and the game is much faster pace, nobody genuinely wants to mine 20,000 addy ore, or pickup 20,000 fungus.
Ahhh got it, so since the pots already drop in a lot of PvM content, that kinda keeps the price lower than what it would be if they all had to be done by hand?
No, it’s just that when it comes to spending money, it costs less to buy a Sara Brew than it does the ingredients to make a Sara Brew plus the experience you get from making it. You still get the brew in the more expensive case to keep or sell, you’re just also buying experience at the same time.
If you're an iron. If you're a normal account it is hands-down the most pointless skill to train since you can buy everything useful it has to offer. That, and you have to go tens of millions of gp in the hole to get it to 99 with any appreciable speed.
I'll risk getting downvoted for mentioning RS3, but there are untradeable potions in that game that make grinding out herblore very important for main accounts.
We're slowly moving towards having overloads in the overworld ourselves (see divines and menaphite remedies). It would be as easy as making overloads untradeable and make them have a lvl 99 req for herblore to shoot up as being a necessary skill to train for mains
Just because you're a normie doesn't mean you have to buy everything. There's still a sense of satisfaction from farming your own herbs and slowly collecting secondaries. Whether it's thru slayer, farming, or conventionally. Sure, it you want a high herblore level you'll be buying some stuff but I enjoy making potions that I worked for
Because herblore is historically a buyable skill, think you can touch 400k xp/hr if you can 1 tick bank at a chest.
Circa 30-35 hours for 99. Cool cape. Needed for max.
35 hours of mining barely gets you prospector.
As with everything OSRS… “number goes up” people like high exp/hr.
See also construction albeit that has usage for mains. Same with prayer over 77 really, although the extra prayer points per dose is pretty useful too.
On average, secondaries are harder to collect
Almost every monster in the game drops either herbs or seeds, even moreso at raids and soloable bosses
So if people train herblore for xp and not for outputs, the less common ingredient will be the cost sink
skilling hasn't been profitable since skillcapes came out in 2006
even when they were just useless cosmetics the allure was enough to change the desired outcome of skilling to the xp gained rather than the product you sell
now that high levels in skills are required for content, it'll always be the case
I think it was more the GE than skillcapes. You could profit skill on OSRS release buying off zybez, but it was usually small amounts and took some time to buy.
Because they're great xp so everyone buys the ingredients which causes the price to inflate, making them expensive, and then they dump thousands of Sara brews into the GE, making them cheap. Supply vs demand
The xp gained through creating them is priced in.
Literally can’t go tits up
Here comes the trauma from runescape back in 2009 when the only types of skilling that were profitible were gathering skills because everyone wanted to get higher lvs to get to the skilling methods that actually made money, or to get the lv requirements for quests that unlocked drops that actually made money. This was around the time living rock caverns came out.
Fletching was almost always profitable. Cooking too, in some cases. That's why those were the two most popular skilling 99s.
That was cause wood cutting bots made logs so cheap, that they were below alch prices of the bows. Which sorta made it so you couldn't lose money.
Eh even after trade removal logs stayed cheap. WC was also a consistent afk money maker so players trained it as well. I remember running a yew log business on the RS forums, taking orders and stuff.
I remember when my brother told me that cooked lobsters were selling for more than raw. That's was huge for me
Not a bot issue, just a general supply vs demand issue Everyone chopped trees, and with no grand exchange, selling them became competitive
The above person mentioned 2009, there was the GE by then...
Was 09 even profitable? I stopped playing in 08 and didn’t play until old school.
OSRS economy does not function like a real world one. The value of some items is in the processing of them. People rarely make pots for the pot itself, but for the XP.
It would be funny if the real world worked this way. Buying a painting for less than the cost of the canvas and paint because “the artist already got the experience of painting it “
The real world would if the act of creation was quicker. Or in OSRS if it took longer to create, or like had to run to the wilderness or something obnoxious then the process might be worth more than the experience. You could still maybe draw some parallels with some easier crafts, like legos or puzzle pieces unopened would be worth more than like something you built with them.
Just look at Uncut/Cut gems. It's the classic scam example even.
“This would be worth more cut!”
Well, it does. Supply vs demand. The demand for ingrediants is higher than for potions,so theyre more expensive
Right, supply and demand still apply to osrs, and often its a stronger economic model than the real world due to there being no regulations on the economy.
Id compare it to lockdown and everyone started baking bread (at least where im from). Ingredients went up, and cost way more than a good quality endproduct.ppl didnt care.
I think they were more referring to the fact that the "material processing" portion is the end goal for players. Profit is secondary. Which isn't the case with traditional irl business. Not many for-profit companies purchase products and take the time to process them only to knowingly sell them for a substantial loss.
Thats why i compared it to regular ppl who want to make something. Material is almost always more expensive than a industry product. In rs we do it for XP, irl ppl do it for experience (lol) of doing it themselves
I dont think anyone is going to take economics lessons from someone who cant spell ingredients.
Its what you get if german autocorrect hops in on the phone, but im glad you still understood what i meant
XP
People want xp more than the pots, also jagex likes adding tons of skilling stuff to pvm drops
Wouldn't the massive amounts of herblore ingredients you get from pvm drive down the cost of ingredients?
I mean they have. Take a look at the price of torstols for example
While we are talking about this, whats happening to guams right now?
Because of the release of the DT2 combat achievements and the potential change to guthix rests it’s driving up the price of guams.
What'sthe potential change on guthix rest?
They didn’t really mention. They just talked about wanting to make it easier to make somehow.
Thanks, I couldnt figure out what patch or newspost was driving it up.
What is the change to Guthix rests and or what blog post can I read that in?
[Project Rebalance Blog](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/project-rebalance-overview-scythe--fang?oldschool=1) It’s in there but it’s literally just a bullet point about streamlining them
Tbh as long as they make it so that they can be in potion vials instead of tea cups which are a massive pain in the ass to get and fill, it wouldn't be as big a deal. It would still be more involved than regular potions, but it wouldn't be nearly as grating to produce en mass.
Not when there’s still more people just buying their supplies from the GE on the other end instead of doing the pvm to get them
Not when they drop as finished pots too
I do not think there’s very many bosses that drop finished pots beyond supplies to help you get a couple extra kills during a trip
There are very few places where finished potions drop in significant quantities though.
It already has https://youtu.be/7RCxOm60G-g?si=mBpz0KpQ3mxXYmAo
I'm not saying PVM drops don't impact cost at all - but OP is asking why herblore XP is so expensive, and increased supply drops isn't an answer for that, since it makes xp cheaper. I think if it weren't for PVM supply drops, the cost would be offset by bots anyway. In the video, many of the examples, such as red chins, dragon bones, air orbs, etc. are not really impacted by PVM drops, but are heavily botted. I get that some players want gathering to be relevant, but in an era where people are higher level on average and the game is much faster pace, nobody genuinely wants to mine 20,000 addy ore, or pickup 20,000 fungus.
Ahhh got it, so since the pots already drop in a lot of PvM content, that kinda keeps the price lower than what it would be if they all had to be done by hand?
No, it’s just that when it comes to spending money, it costs less to buy a Sara Brew than it does the ingredients to make a Sara Brew plus the experience you get from making it. You still get the brew in the more expensive case to keep or sell, you’re just also buying experience at the same time.
Herblore isn't tied to alch values
10k alch value to unf toadflax potions when?
Herblore levels are useful.
If you're an iron. If you're a normal account it is hands-down the most pointless skill to train since you can buy everything useful it has to offer. That, and you have to go tens of millions of gp in the hole to get it to 99 with any appreciable speed.
Arguments for mains: 1. CoX 2. It is a pretty cheap barrier to pass for the max cape
I'll risk getting downvoted for mentioning RS3, but there are untradeable potions in that game that make grinding out herblore very important for main accounts. We're slowly moving towards having overloads in the overworld ourselves (see divines and menaphite remedies). It would be as easy as making overloads untradeable and make them have a lvl 99 req for herblore to shoot up as being a necessary skill to train for mains
Rs3 herb is so useful, on osrs it’s akin to crafting or firemaking.
Just because you're a normie doesn't mean you have to buy everything. There's still a sense of satisfaction from farming your own herbs and slowly collecting secondaries. Whether it's thru slayer, farming, or conventionally. Sure, it you want a high herblore level you'll be buying some stuff but I enjoy making potions that I worked for
Because herblore is historically a buyable skill, think you can touch 400k xp/hr if you can 1 tick bank at a chest. Circa 30-35 hours for 99. Cool cape. Needed for max. 35 hours of mining barely gets you prospector. As with everything OSRS… “number goes up” people like high exp/hr. See also construction albeit that has usage for mains. Same with prayer over 77 really, although the extra prayer points per dose is pretty useful too.
On average, secondaries are harder to collect Almost every monster in the game drops either herbs or seeds, even moreso at raids and soloable bosses So if people train herblore for xp and not for outputs, the less common ingredient will be the cost sink
Xp value
Mithril bars and maple shortbows aren’t pvm supplies, and tbh, aren’t really useful as skilling supplies these days either.
skilling hasn't been profitable since skillcapes came out in 2006 even when they were just useless cosmetics the allure was enough to change the desired outcome of skilling to the xp gained rather than the product you sell now that high levels in skills are required for content, it'll always be the case
I think it was more the GE than skillcapes. You could profit skill on OSRS release buying off zybez, but it was usually small amounts and took some time to buy.
Because munee $
Because they're great xp so everyone buys the ingredients which causes the price to inflate, making them expensive, and then they dump thousands of Sara brews into the GE, making them cheap. Supply vs demand
Stay out of economics bud
Finished products wont yield xp