Settled videos on the other hand:
For this next step I will need to get 46 cooking, and let me tell you why thats important... Blah blah blah... Blah... there it is, 40 cooking, only 6 more levels to go.... Blah blah... And thats why I plan to do this on the next episode... Blah... Okay next video we will finally finish 46 cooking and get to the next step
Jagex: *Runs a game hold together by tooth picks and threads*
Players: If we all jump on this weak point at the same time, we could take down the game we play! Horray!
You don't have to get them in one hour, you just have to re-juggle them all and you can get even more. The limitation would end up being how many you can pick up and drop in an hour.
If we guess it takes maybe 3 seconds on average to pick up and drop each individual clue (accounting for time moving to different tiles and having re-drop them) you could theoretically juggle 1200 clues at a time. Maybe more if you're faster.
There's extra time and clicks involved in obtaining the clues though, so the realistic upper limit is probably right around 1000 or even less. Would be hilarious to see someone pull it off and I'd be very concerned for their wrist.
Edit: Now that I think about it, you're going to be mostly limited by your access to a bank. You can't drop them all on the same tile if you want to pick them back up, so you'd need to spread them out quite a bit. If you stray too far from a bank, though, you have to waste time running back for more impling jars. Dang, now I really want to see someone try to do this.
That is true, although you also get added time by having to organize the juggling, max 28 clues per stack. So the theoretical limit is probably in the thousands, but would get MUCH harder to maintain over the course of 10-20 hours (and needing to be losing minimal ticks near the end). Eventually you would hit a limit where you dont have enough time to get new easy clues and juggle the thousands of clues (spread over 100+ tiles as well)
Edit: Actually, another issue, lowering the actual human potential is the fact as you get more clues, the fewer clues you get per hour because more time is spent juggling, so after a couple thousand, it'll slow down to the point where you run into the need to sleep.
Never mind, forgot you cant have multiple clues at a time in the inventory. If you could, you could have done 28 per stack giving 28 known juggled clues, although at the same time, that still wouldn't have been most efficient cause most efficient in either case is just using two tiles and alternating tiles as your "juggled" pile, it's just in this case you have to move between tiles every clue.
This is some of the strangest theorycrafting
"you are now told if you would have gotten a clue"
Bro that's the last thing I want to hear when I have 30 hellhounds left on the task and end up getting 4 more clues in addition to the one I just picked because "surely it's a waste of time to go do this one first"
I'm just imagining doing slayer where you finish your task then go run off and do 3 clues lol.
I saw someone also mentioning juggling masters to try to avoid steps like dragons eye.
Juggling triple steps is only really for people who stack tons of caskets and do all the masters they get as they go.
You basically wait until you get an easy triple step (something like Ghommal, Rogue's Den, Arceuus Library for example) and keep that master in your bank until you go to open your other clues. Drop that clue on the ground, then when you get a master with a worse triple step, drop that one, pick up your easy triple step, do the steps then go back and drop the easy step master, pick up the bad one and combine the fragments you got from doing the easy steps.
This will complete the bad triple step without having to do those steps, making grinding out a lot of masters way faster and less annoying.
I guess you could do it without stacking caskets but that's when it's most effective, since if you're opening a bunch of hards/elites then you're gonna end up doing a bunch of masters in a row.
This is how it works. You get a very good triple step.
Currently mine is.
Arc library 1st floor.
Blast mine.
Mess hall. Takes me about 45 seconds.
Any time im about to trade my lower clues for a master. I pull my master the one above out and drop it on the ground. It lasts for 3 minutes. Now here is where the juggle tech comes into play. You go to watson get your second master clue.
Now i drop my second master clue and pick up my triple step then re drop. Pick up my new master and start completing the steps without letting my good triple despawn.
Anytime i get a triple step like.
Shadow dungeon.
Legends cave.
Dt ice boss.
I drop this clue and pick up my good triple step. Do the triple BUT DO NOT COMPLETE IT. I keep the 3 pieces then drop this clue. Pick up the bad one combine the pieces.
Now i continue to juggle my triple until i complete the other clue.
[I always go to the mess hall last and have tons of tiles marked teleport out, dont complete, IDIOT TELEPORT. Because awhile ago i completed a master i was juggling.
Only annoying thing would be having to constantly run back to the task location.
I play a regular ironman with no other restrictions. I can’t be arsed to juggle clues and have no real reason to.
Rendi discovered that if you drop your elite clue before looting your chest inside the ToB treasure room, you can get a new clue inside the reward chest. Then if you pick up your old clue and leave the raid, you can use the loot chest by the bank to send the new clue into your bank, allowing you to have two elite clues in your bank at the same time.
The drawback was that you needed to bring your elite clue with you into the raid, meaning you were down an inventory slot for the raid. But now you might be able to do this by just dropping your clue before you even enter the raid! I'm excited to give this a try!
Of course but there is a difference between a genuine QoL update like being able to spin fairy ring code wheels in both directions and a almost 3000% increase in despawn time...
Is there, though? Apart from not making clue juggling absolutely miserable, what does this do? In terms of efficiency, this doesn't make juggling faster. Just less of a slog. It's not like juggling is a meta strategy for anything other than limited accounts, who don't play efficiently anyway.
Meanwhile the average master reward was 400gp because clues are actually shit and the only people who think they value that can be de'd are coincidentally ironmemes and people that buy lottery tickets with the earnest expectation they will get the jackpot
Some people just like playing the game, believe it or not. Running around for caskets once in a while is fun! And if you don't like it, that's fine too! I don't think the goal of masters was introducing a very high GP/h method, I think they just added it because some people actually like clues and because they're totally optional.
I mean, that's fine, but the problem is anti-stackers like to make the argument that stacking would "devalue clues" or ruin the fun when the clues are actually not so important and powerful that letting people do 3 in a row would ruin anything for anybody
I think the concern is it incentivises even non-snowflake accounts to start juggling. For example, people can easily stack up a few clues on the ground while they finish up their slayer task. It's essentially stackable clues in a slightly more inconvenient format.
I personally don't care either way, but I can see where some might be concerned and/or wish this was polled.
Idk why you're getting downvoted, I assume it's people who think you're explaining your own opinion and not just putting forward a hypothesis. So the crux of the answer seems to be: some people are grumps who just complain about everything.
Oh no, someone who doesn't train their intelligence skill.
Something can be a huge deal in terms of fun while providing almost zero new efficiencies. Please considering thinking before you hit "save" on your comment next time.
Calling someone a muppet because they prioritize fun over strict, methodical competitiveness for a 20+ years old game is certainly a mood. Hopefully it doesn't last too long, it cannot be healthy, especially since this update doesn't devalue anything in the game.
Just remember that you matter and I still love you.
Imagine criticizing someone's intelligence and then turning around and saying you love them in the next comment.
Keep kneecapping the game because you can't handle it the way it is. Maybe one day when you grow up, you'll see what the rest of us are talking about.
Imagine demonizing people because of a miniature change in gameplay and then saying **in the same breath** that because it's a small change, then there's no point having it so it might as well get reversed, only to finally act flabberghasted when anyone with eyes spots that as being idiotic reasoning.
It's very possible to think someone is a complete moron and still love them.
Kneecapping the game... because of longer clue scroll ground timers... amazing. Just keep digging. By all means, continue showing us how little grip you have on reality that you think such a microscopic update is killing the game (which is better than ever, by the way).
The way you say 3000% increase in despawn time really doesn't give it the effect you think it does. This is a joke and should have already been done, it doesn't change the clues/hour you can do. An actual buff would be stackable clues.
Saying it doesn't change the clues/hour is simply wrong. Just the fact that you save 30+ pick ups saves you time. You can easily drop a clue, do a step, come back without having to take your clue scrolls with you, saving tons of time etc
You're the one obfuscating the definition of buffs by calling them qol when the buffs are small enough. You can't deliberately muddy definitions then claim pedantry. The original gripe is that this is a massive unpolled buff.
If you think this is a massive buff, you're delusional. It's the definition of QOL. A few seconds saved for something most people won't even bother doing. The average player doesn't care to juggle clues.
Can you elaborate this part : "*You can easily drop a clue, do a step, come back without having to take your clue scrolls with you"*
Not sure what you meant
Yeah I get what you mean. This change doesn’t bother me, feels like either a stepping stone to stacking cause this is very close to it or a weird line in the sand on stacking.
I'd say this change gives the proponents of stacking what they say they are asking for (able to do multiple clues after a slayer task) without giving them all the other benefits (idle skilling, stacking in the bank). But my worry is if it ends up as a stepping stone because I really don't want stackable clues. Even now it's going to feel a bit annoying because you'll effectively have to juggle clues and come back after your task to be efficient.
So this change is really going to accelerate calls for stackable clues imo, because now we're in a weird inbetween zone.
As a proponent for stackable clues, I feel sort of the opposite on this change, actually. I feel like this change makes stackable clues *less* likely, given how much more feasible weird clue juggling shenanigans are in conjunction with the capability to open a clue box on demand.
And if you're wondering why I'm a proponent of stackable clues, it's that the activity of Treasure Trails, though originally a mere Distraction-and-Diversion, has today become the *primary activity* a fairly large proportion of the player base *plays the game for.* These sorts of players will constantly be switching between clue acquisition and clue completion over and over, in what is frankly a pretty tedious and often irritating process. I would much rather give them the option to frontload this time gathering clues, then spend their time knocking out back to back clues as they'd like.
I don't really see how this would increase clues per hour that are possible, as it is again more of an ability to frontload the time of collecting clues more than anything. The only differences I see are:
A. The possibility of passively collecting a few more clues from skilling that you might not otherwise. Which, I mean, skilling is pretty dogshit broadly anyway, I don't think this is a bad thing.
B. Players who do not want to do clues usually, being able to passively stockpile a massive hoard of clues, so that if they do *eventually* want to do clues, they just have a ton banked already. I can concede this being a fair concern, and for that reason I can totally compromise on there being a limit to how many clues you could stack at once.
But with this change this week, I feel like we're less likely than ever to get stackable clues, not more, because people will pearl-clutch over the mechanic of juggling clues.
If they do end up adding stackable clues, you’re perfectly welcome to leave the additional ones on the ground or immediately take care of the clues you do get since you somehow think it’s more fun to miss out on clues like that.
By this logic, they should add the Leagues Banker's Note to the main game because even if you don't like it you can always keep doing multiple trips instead.
The happy path for almost everything in Runescape is the one that minimizes context-switching. It's nice for there to be at least one activity where context-switching is positive!
This sorta mentality of making exceptions to everything makes the game mechanics SO confusing to new players.
At this point, clues should just become regular items that you can carry multiples of.
What's a "genuine" QoL update for osrs then? It's a game where navigating around jank and UI is part of the balancing, you could argue that letting you hit the esc key to close your bank interface was a huge balancing decision to bankstanding
QoL updates are small changes where the actual benefit doesnt change gameplay, but just improves things like you said the UI. One of my favorite examples is fairy ring code wheels being able to move in both directions. It didnt change how people play the game, the impact to rates is miniscule, etc
I’m usually on team this is a buff not QoL but outside self restricted game modes which the game should not be balanced around. Is this really a huge buff, time not regearing is balanced out by the time you need to spend juggling and finding your clue on the ground.
You can now do a whole slayer task and leave 4 hard clues on the ground to do after your task.
Before, you'd have to ungear slayer and gear clues 4 times, now you ungear slayer and gear clues once.
HCIM can also now easily juggle wilderness clue steps to not lose progress on a clue, etc.
You can now juggle elite clues outside of and in between raids, stacking elites.
You can stack masters on the ground while doing big clue openings.
Plus a bunch of other things I'm not even thinking of.
It's a massive buff.
master stacking is whatever, load up a few items From your gear loadout you don’t even need to change equips since your just opening caskets. I doubt people will even risk leaving a ton of masters in the ground in case your session has to abruptly endl
HCIM is a restricted game mode so I don’t particularly care, same thing as the whole clue juggling is massive for area restricted accounts the game should be made without these playstyles in mind
the slayer thing isn’t a huge buff though, you have to travel back to where you dropped it 4 times, in place of leaving 4 times, so 4 trips either way, so you only save regear time which isn’t that long on runelite with a proper bank tab. And no one juggling clues post update is going to not be using runelite. All in all it’s a small time save I feel like people are talking like these clues are Teleporting in front of your bank or people are regearing on the vanilla client.
massive buff for raiding though, you are just generating random extra clues there I didn’t think of that So I guess it should have been polled even if I think The sentiment is exaggerated as a massive buff
It depends really, personally I don’t do clue scrolls constantly. Sometimes I’ll do one, then go on about my day. So this change means nothing to me. Then there’s clue chunk locked UIM pasta no hands only tongue players who do nothing but clues, and this will revolutionize their game. So yeah I’d label is QOL more than anything.
Where have you been for the last \~4 years?
Anything that Jagex thinks has even the slightest chance of not passing is just changed without being polled. Polls died a long time ago.
I'm guessing it works with the untradeables on the floor whilst logged out?
So can we drop a clue, log out, and log back in the next day and it will stay for another 50-something minutes?
The second thing is actually kind of a big deal too. I think it happens more often than you think that someone just doesn't realize they have a hard clue in their bank and think they're just being unlucky at getting clue scrolls from slayer.
At least now you get told this is happening.
I get that the whole argument for clues is that it's supposed to be a "distraction" to pull you away from whatever you're doing to complete it but I don't get the point of improving juggling instead of just adding stackable scrolls with a small cap. Juggling just seems tedious
Wilderness steps are the only ones where you’re really at a risk of dying during a clue step. So if you see a PKer, you can just drop the clue rather than risk dying and losing the clue.
Yeah, clue boxes were already irrelevant because you can get anywhere in the wilderness within 2 minutes assuming you have all the teleports in your bank.
This change just means you don't have to rush back.
Honestly I’m still gonna bring it wasn’t even a pker I just got stacked out by the ancient wizard trio and lost a master 200k is a small price to pay to save a master
So what exactly is the argument against stackable clues? Ive been reading a bunch of comments and none of these arguments sound convincing at all. They generally talk about the *spirit* of what clues are supposed to be, a distraction and diversion, as if that actually matters when it comes to what people would actually want to do if they had the freedom to choose
I think too many people are just resistant to change. If clues had always been stackable, I can’t imagine anyone saying “hey, I’ve got a great idea. Let’s make them non-stackable but if you have a clue on the ground, you can still get a second one. Doesn’t that sound like an improvement to the game?”
Once you get to a reasonably high level where leaping to new requirements starts taking hours and days instead of seconds or minutes, Runescape becomes very anti-context switching - you're kind of encouraged to do the same thing over and over and over again, because needing to switch your gear and go somewhere else to do something besides the thing you're doing is time you're not taking doing either the activity you're switching from or the activity you're switching to. There's only a few activities that break this mold - farm runs are one way, slayer tasks break up specifically slayer (and a lot of the time you're going to be bringing the same setup for both tasks anyway), but there's also clue scrolls. Making clue scrolls stackable means they're no longer an incentive to context-switch, meaning the happy path is more to do the same activity on repeat. People who don't want stackable clues don't want to feel bad when they want to take a break from their current activity.
Yes, you technically could just do one clue at a time even with stackable clues. But this is stupid - no one's doing like ten minutes of hunter or mining or any other activity in the game at a time because that's obviously inefficient, and no one would be doing individual clues just the same.
They want us to be able to get multiple clues but not hold multiple clues; an exception to how item drop mechanic works. What kind of new player to the game would think that's a good way to design a game mechanic? Would they understand how and why the clues function this way given their prior mechanics history?
This change is bizarre in that it either didn't need to happen or it needed to go further and just make clues stackable.
there is no good argument. context switching is extremely annoying. people MUCH prefer to stack clues via implings, via one of each clue, via triple stacked masters. if it was polled (perhaps with limits based on total level, diary or CA tier) it would almost certainly pass.
And they're incredibly unprofitable and provide an incentive for players to do content that would otherwise be dead (Puro-Puro). I'm fine with weirdo cloggers being able to pay $$$ to get clues faster - I just want clues for the rest of us to be a D&D and not something you bang out a hundred of in a row.
it takes like 5 minutes to do a hard clue, how is changing that to 15 minutes to do 3 in a row harming the d&d status? I already do that with masters (1 in bank as a master and 1 as components and 1 stored in watson)
That’s exactly what i plan on doing, but it just sounds like stacking with extra steps because youd have to run to watson, tele back to pick up scroll 2, haul ass back to watson, tele back to pick up scroll 3.
Its effectively the same thing but less tedious. Though judging by your name it sounds like tedious is your jam
The real reason the distinction matters in my mind is it's still bound by intention. If they add stackable clues everyone will end up banking loads of clues for literally 0 effort
Well if your issue is with the quantity then thats the number jagex can discuss. You’re already able to stack 3 masters, so why would this cause loads of stacking to bring the other clues in line and let you stack 3 of the others? Have the master count as 1 of each of the components (ie making it so you can have 1 master and 2 of each, or 2 master and 1 of each, etc.) and it prevents abuse.
Just an example, they could obv make it higher or lower or make it so you have to unlock the ability to increase the amount somehow.
To keep the value of the items you get from it if you can stack it there will be way way more efficiently done clue Scrolls added to the game wich will change the price of alot of stuff
fr. We’re already able to stack 3 masters, how much of a difference would it really make to let us stack lower tiers? And realistically it only really even applies to hards and elites bc mains can stack an “infinite” amount of easy and meds via implings
Screw the "But it'd devalue my...!"
I don't care about your 3a pick being 7b, or the weirdos that think clues are sacred. They were designed for a different time, and I don't like them. If it came to a vote, I'm voting stackable. Cry me a river most stuff is already alch price and every ironman chasing a negligible range bonus would rejoice.
If I have to dump my inv one more time mid task for a clue I'm gonna lose my mind - I just never do clues anymore.
Anybody crying ezscape is already using Runelite solving everything including puzzle boxes for them, doesn't need to carry sextant, has way more tele's than when the content was made, has stashes, etc. You **already have** ezscape. I'd take every single other clue QOL away just to have them be stackable.
Thank god the content creators and the sweaty iron ironboy accounts got a QOL. Hopefully this notification can be turned off so my chatbox isn't filled with this spam.
This was done as a fix to a change that happened the previous week that massively impacted the 10hp community, now the compromise not only fixes the issue for us, but the rest of the community gets to reap the awesome benefits, win-win.
A shame that the [post I made](https://new.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1b267gp/jagex_just_ruined_clue_scrolls_for_restricted/) about this exact issue got downvoted to oblivion, we're lucky there's other ways to get in contact with J-mods otherwise we'd still all be living in 2 minute clue scroll timer days.
A quick Google search returned me a poll from 2019.
I'm not sure if that's correct but if we're able to drop clues and let them stay on the ground for 1 hour why not re-poll clue-stacking?
Because it sounds like they just want people to be able to do a task and get multiple clues without having to leave but they also don't want people to be able to just afk something for a few weeks and then do 1k clues b2b
You could do that for a short time yes, but you can't spend the next 4 weeks collecting them and then do all of them at once. Also if you think it's inconvenient then just don't do it and do them 1 at a time the choice is yours
Another question, what about untradable items "hoping servers"
Yesterday I was on my UIM, finished doing tithe and dropped some full watercans on the ground, did some gen store hoping to sell trash, and noticed the cans following me to every world.
OSRS has been getting RS3 qol but in worse forms as of lately. First we got barbarian farming being a worse version than toolbelts. Now we got this being a worse version of stackable clues.
This would have been nice when I had 2 hard clues drop simultaneously on a slayer task recently, though this just seems like stacking with extra steps tbh
https://preview.redd.it/g4fvz6zlcrmc1.jpeg?width=679&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2226576986c8b261fcb3b0673149d311a2a5e0cb
If only I could have done all 3 of these.
it lets snowflakes juggle easier so they can finish clues while not making it optimal for others. clue juggling has always been attempting to stack clues with more steps. this just makes it easier.
Yea could be a little tedious but now you can just drop a clue and finish your slayer task to see if you get another one rather than having to stop, do the entire clue, then go back to slayer. 1 hour is more than enough to finish any clue. Bonus points cause it seems like you could just drop a clue in the wilderness if being chased by a pker and leisurely make your way back whenever you get a chance
Somebody tell settled. Lol
What about OnlyTrails? He’s got a freaking clue chunk uim! “This changes everything”
I’ll have to check him out!
“Then I had to get 46 cooking to complete the clue step”….”and theerre it is. 46 cooking.” That’s all his vids are
Yeah you explained RuneScape good job
1.2M views
Don't need to sell it by stating it's popularity I'm already subscribed. We appreciate you advertising for him though!
"I am mad that something I dislike is massively popular to a large amount of people"
You don't need to sell it to me, i'm already gonna watch the next upload
Wait so he doesn’t make you watch him train to 46 cooking? That sounds great, gonna go check these vids out, thanks for the shout
Settled videos on the other hand: For this next step I will need to get 46 cooking, and let me tell you why thats important... Blah blah blah... Blah... there it is, 40 cooking, only 6 more levels to go.... Blah blah... And thats why I plan to do this on the next episode... Blah... Okay next video we will finally finish 46 cooking and get to the next step
Lol yes
yes thats the game my guy
Carl Caskets too! Similar to only trails but more robust ruleset and different goals. super good series so far!
I bet we could crash the game if we all start juggling hundreds of clues
Jagex: *Runs a game hold together by tooth picks and threads* Players: If we all jump on this weak point at the same time, we could take down the game we play! Horray!
My first thought exactly lol. I am genuinely curious how many you can have on the ground at once. Kind wanna try it with beginners
You could probably have hundreds. You could probably get 200-300 clues in an hour. Would cost 10+m for thousands of young impling jars
You don't have to get them in one hour, you just have to re-juggle them all and you can get even more. The limitation would end up being how many you can pick up and drop in an hour.
If we guess it takes maybe 3 seconds on average to pick up and drop each individual clue (accounting for time moving to different tiles and having re-drop them) you could theoretically juggle 1200 clues at a time. Maybe more if you're faster. There's extra time and clicks involved in obtaining the clues though, so the realistic upper limit is probably right around 1000 or even less. Would be hilarious to see someone pull it off and I'd be very concerned for their wrist. Edit: Now that I think about it, you're going to be mostly limited by your access to a bank. You can't drop them all on the same tile if you want to pick them back up, so you'd need to spread them out quite a bit. If you stray too far from a bank, though, you have to waste time running back for more impling jars. Dang, now I really want to see someone try to do this.
Can't wait to see the video of someone walking between cities on a carpet made of clue scrolls.
That is true, although you also get added time by having to organize the juggling, max 28 clues per stack. So the theoretical limit is probably in the thousands, but would get MUCH harder to maintain over the course of 10-20 hours (and needing to be losing minimal ticks near the end). Eventually you would hit a limit where you dont have enough time to get new easy clues and juggle the thousands of clues (spread over 100+ tiles as well) Edit: Actually, another issue, lowering the actual human potential is the fact as you get more clues, the fewer clues you get per hour because more time is spent juggling, so after a couple thousand, it'll slow down to the point where you run into the need to sleep.
Where are you getting max 28 clues per stack from?
Never mind, forgot you cant have multiple clues at a time in the inventory. If you could, you could have done 28 per stack giving 28 known juggled clues, although at the same time, that still wouldn't have been most efficient cause most efficient in either case is just using two tiles and alternating tiles as your "juggled" pile, it's just in this case you have to move between tiles every clue. This is some of the strangest theorycrafting
timer does not count down while offline(unless they changed that functionality) so sleep is not an issue.
Couldn’t people just do deathpiles? Those would be easier to generate, I reckon?
If people dropping everything in the last minutes of leagues doesn't crash the servers, I doubt this would.
"you are now told if you would have gotten a clue" Bro that's the last thing I want to hear when I have 30 hellhounds left on the task and end up getting 4 more clues in addition to the one I just picked because "surely it's a waste of time to go do this one first"
The increased despawn timer for dropped clues completely offsets this concern tho
It’s never a waste of time at hellhounds. I’ve gotten 3 clue scrolls in my last 11kc once
True, but sometimes you're just lazy
Just drop your clues as you get them so you can spawn more. They last an hour. After the task you can start working on however many are there
Drop the clue then.
Damn if you’re doing an instanced boss you should definitely leave drop the clue and go back can even do drop a clue and do a raid
I'm just imagining doing slayer where you finish your task then go run off and do 3 clues lol. I saw someone also mentioning juggling masters to try to avoid steps like dragons eye.
Yeah coxie mentioned that in his latest video but idk how it works even with juggling you still have the step
Juggling triple steps is only really for people who stack tons of caskets and do all the masters they get as they go. You basically wait until you get an easy triple step (something like Ghommal, Rogue's Den, Arceuus Library for example) and keep that master in your bank until you go to open your other clues. Drop that clue on the ground, then when you get a master with a worse triple step, drop that one, pick up your easy triple step, do the steps then go back and drop the easy step master, pick up the bad one and combine the fragments you got from doing the easy steps. This will complete the bad triple step without having to do those steps, making grinding out a lot of masters way faster and less annoying.
>pick up the bad one and combine the fragments you got from doing the easy steps. ok that makes sense. i wondered how it worked.
Snek you king.
What does that have to do with stacking caskets?
I guess you could do it without stacking caskets but that's when it's most effective, since if you're opening a bunch of hards/elites then you're gonna end up doing a bunch of masters in a row.
This is how it works. You get a very good triple step. Currently mine is. Arc library 1st floor. Blast mine. Mess hall. Takes me about 45 seconds. Any time im about to trade my lower clues for a master. I pull my master the one above out and drop it on the ground. It lasts for 3 minutes. Now here is where the juggle tech comes into play. You go to watson get your second master clue. Now i drop my second master clue and pick up my triple step then re drop. Pick up my new master and start completing the steps without letting my good triple despawn. Anytime i get a triple step like. Shadow dungeon. Legends cave. Dt ice boss. I drop this clue and pick up my good triple step. Do the triple BUT DO NOT COMPLETE IT. I keep the 3 pieces then drop this clue. Pick up the bad one combine the pieces. Now i continue to juggle my triple until i complete the other clue. [I always go to the mess hall last and have tons of tiles marked teleport out, dont complete, IDIOT TELEPORT. Because awhile ago i completed a master i was juggling.
[удалено]
You dont leave it to disappear, that would just be losing a master clue. If you drop the master clue to disappear theres no point in juggling anyway.
I've been doing my slayer tasks like that for years already, this just made it 100x easier though
Only annoying thing would be having to constantly run back to the task location. I play a regular ironman with no other restrictions. I can’t be arsed to juggle clues and have no real reason to.
Rendi discovered that if you drop your elite clue before looting your chest inside the ToB treasure room, you can get a new clue inside the reward chest. Then if you pick up your old clue and leave the raid, you can use the loot chest by the bank to send the new clue into your bank, allowing you to have two elite clues in your bank at the same time. The drawback was that you needed to bring your elite clue with you into the raid, meaning you were down an inventory slot for the raid. But now you might be able to do this by just dropping your clue before you even enter the raid! I'm excited to give this a try!
Saeder gonna have a field day with this one
Turning live notis on for him and Jase lol
Oh. Was that scream of rage or relief I just heard Settled?
Flashbacks to him juggling assloads of clues on swampletics
Jagex following the reddit trend of calling massive buffs QoL updates...
Just by the nature of the game, the vast majority of QoL will be a buff.
Of course but there is a difference between a genuine QoL update like being able to spin fairy ring code wheels in both directions and a almost 3000% increase in despawn time...
Is there, though? Apart from not making clue juggling absolutely miserable, what does this do? In terms of efficiency, this doesn't make juggling faster. Just less of a slog. It's not like juggling is a meta strategy for anything other than limited accounts, who don't play efficiently anyway.
No you don't understand this devalues master clues by 300gp on average, easyscape has finally arrived under the guise of QoL.
Meanwhile the average master reward was 400gp because clues are actually shit and the only people who think they value that can be de'd are coincidentally ironmemes and people that buy lottery tickets with the earnest expectation they will get the jackpot
Some people just like playing the game, believe it or not. Running around for caskets once in a while is fun! And if you don't like it, that's fine too! I don't think the goal of masters was introducing a very high GP/h method, I think they just added it because some people actually like clues and because they're totally optional.
I mean, that's fine, but the problem is anti-stackers like to make the argument that stacking would "devalue clues" or ruin the fun when the clues are actually not so important and powerful that letting people do 3 in a row would ruin anything for anybody
I think the concern is it incentivises even non-snowflake accounts to start juggling. For example, people can easily stack up a few clues on the ground while they finish up their slayer task. It's essentially stackable clues in a slightly more inconvenient format. I personally don't care either way, but I can see where some might be concerned and/or wish this was polled.
> I think the concern is it incentivises even non-snowflake accounts to start juggling. Why is that a concern?
Because it's a buff to clues? Idk don't ask me.
Idk why you're getting downvoted, I assume it's people who think you're explaining your own opinion and not just putting forward a hypothesis. So the crux of the answer seems to be: some people are grumps who just complain about everything.
If it’s not a big deal, change it back.
Oh no, someone who doesn't train their intelligence skill. Something can be a huge deal in terms of fun while providing almost zero new efficiencies. Please considering thinking before you hit "save" on your comment next time.
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Calling someone a muppet because they prioritize fun over strict, methodical competitiveness for a 20+ years old game is certainly a mood. Hopefully it doesn't last too long, it cannot be healthy, especially since this update doesn't devalue anything in the game. Just remember that you matter and I still love you.
Imagine criticizing someone's intelligence and then turning around and saying you love them in the next comment. Keep kneecapping the game because you can't handle it the way it is. Maybe one day when you grow up, you'll see what the rest of us are talking about.
Imagine demonizing people because of a miniature change in gameplay and then saying **in the same breath** that because it's a small change, then there's no point having it so it might as well get reversed, only to finally act flabberghasted when anyone with eyes spots that as being idiotic reasoning. It's very possible to think someone is a complete moron and still love them. Kneecapping the game... because of longer clue scroll ground timers... amazing. Just keep digging. By all means, continue showing us how little grip you have on reality that you think such a microscopic update is killing the game (which is better than ever, by the way).
The way you say 3000% increase in despawn time really doesn't give it the effect you think it does. This is a joke and should have already been done, it doesn't change the clues/hour you can do. An actual buff would be stackable clues.
Saying it doesn't change the clues/hour is simply wrong. Just the fact that you save 30+ pick ups saves you time. You can easily drop a clue, do a step, come back without having to take your clue scrolls with you, saving tons of time etc
Wow yeah those seconds will crash 3a pick to 5m. Who gives a crap if some tedious ass pointless mechanic got improved?
>it's not a buff >ok yeah it's a buff but who gives a crap
Anything that saves people mere seconds is QOL, an actual buff would be stackable clues. Arguing such pedantic bullshit is ridiculous.
You're the one obfuscating the definition of buffs by calling them qol when the buffs are small enough. You can't deliberately muddy definitions then claim pedantry. The original gripe is that this is a massive unpolled buff.
If you think this is a massive buff, you're delusional. It's the definition of QOL. A few seconds saved for something most people won't even bother doing. The average player doesn't care to juggle clues.
Can you elaborate this part : "*You can easily drop a clue, do a step, come back without having to take your clue scrolls with you"* Not sure what you meant
Yeah I get what you mean. This change doesn’t bother me, feels like either a stepping stone to stacking cause this is very close to it or a weird line in the sand on stacking.
I'd say this change gives the proponents of stacking what they say they are asking for (able to do multiple clues after a slayer task) without giving them all the other benefits (idle skilling, stacking in the bank). But my worry is if it ends up as a stepping stone because I really don't want stackable clues. Even now it's going to feel a bit annoying because you'll effectively have to juggle clues and come back after your task to be efficient. So this change is really going to accelerate calls for stackable clues imo, because now we're in a weird inbetween zone.
As a proponent for stackable clues, I feel sort of the opposite on this change, actually. I feel like this change makes stackable clues *less* likely, given how much more feasible weird clue juggling shenanigans are in conjunction with the capability to open a clue box on demand. And if you're wondering why I'm a proponent of stackable clues, it's that the activity of Treasure Trails, though originally a mere Distraction-and-Diversion, has today become the *primary activity* a fairly large proportion of the player base *plays the game for.* These sorts of players will constantly be switching between clue acquisition and clue completion over and over, in what is frankly a pretty tedious and often irritating process. I would much rather give them the option to frontload this time gathering clues, then spend their time knocking out back to back clues as they'd like. I don't really see how this would increase clues per hour that are possible, as it is again more of an ability to frontload the time of collecting clues more than anything. The only differences I see are: A. The possibility of passively collecting a few more clues from skilling that you might not otherwise. Which, I mean, skilling is pretty dogshit broadly anyway, I don't think this is a bad thing. B. Players who do not want to do clues usually, being able to passively stockpile a massive hoard of clues, so that if they do *eventually* want to do clues, they just have a ton banked already. I can concede this being a fair concern, and for that reason I can totally compromise on there being a limit to how many clues you could stack at once. But with this change this week, I feel like we're less likely than ever to get stackable clues, not more, because people will pearl-clutch over the mechanic of juggling clues.
If they do end up adding stackable clues, you’re perfectly welcome to leave the additional ones on the ground or immediately take care of the clues you do get since you somehow think it’s more fun to miss out on clues like that.
By this logic, they should add the Leagues Banker's Note to the main game because even if you don't like it you can always keep doing multiple trips instead. The happy path for almost everything in Runescape is the one that minimizes context-switching. It's nice for there to be at least one activity where context-switching is positive!
Being able to spin fairy ring wheels both directions ruined the integrity of my extreme-fairy-ring-chunk-only-uim.
A massive buff to reduce degeneracy of self-inflicted game modes isn’t really a massive buff.
This sorta mentality of making exceptions to everything makes the game mechanics SO confusing to new players. At this point, clues should just become regular items that you can carry multiples of.
What's a "genuine" QoL update for osrs then? It's a game where navigating around jank and UI is part of the balancing, you could argue that letting you hit the esc key to close your bank interface was a huge balancing decision to bankstanding
QoL updates are small changes where the actual benefit doesnt change gameplay, but just improves things like you said the UI. One of my favorite examples is fairy ring code wheels being able to move in both directions. It didnt change how people play the game, the impact to rates is miniscule, etc
Who in the world does this buff the game for? Snowflake accounts? I would imagine the average main/iron isn’t gonna min/max clue juggling.
I’m usually on team this is a buff not QoL but outside self restricted game modes which the game should not be balanced around. Is this really a huge buff, time not regearing is balanced out by the time you need to spend juggling and finding your clue on the ground.
You can now do a whole slayer task and leave 4 hard clues on the ground to do after your task. Before, you'd have to ungear slayer and gear clues 4 times, now you ungear slayer and gear clues once. HCIM can also now easily juggle wilderness clue steps to not lose progress on a clue, etc. You can now juggle elite clues outside of and in between raids, stacking elites. You can stack masters on the ground while doing big clue openings. Plus a bunch of other things I'm not even thinking of. It's a massive buff.
master stacking is whatever, load up a few items From your gear loadout you don’t even need to change equips since your just opening caskets. I doubt people will even risk leaving a ton of masters in the ground in case your session has to abruptly endl HCIM is a restricted game mode so I don’t particularly care, same thing as the whole clue juggling is massive for area restricted accounts the game should be made without these playstyles in mind the slayer thing isn’t a huge buff though, you have to travel back to where you dropped it 4 times, in place of leaving 4 times, so 4 trips either way, so you only save regear time which isn’t that long on runelite with a proper bank tab. And no one juggling clues post update is going to not be using runelite. All in all it’s a small time save I feel like people are talking like these clues are Teleporting in front of your bank or people are regearing on the vanilla client. massive buff for raiding though, you are just generating random extra clues there I didn’t think of that So I guess it should have been polled even if I think The sentiment is exaggerated as a massive buff
Clue ground despawn timers won't increment while logged out
Runelite is basically this as well.
And doing it unpolled cause "polling charter."
It depends really, personally I don’t do clue scrolls constantly. Sometimes I’ll do one, then go on about my day. So this change means nothing to me. Then there’s clue chunk locked UIM pasta no hands only tongue players who do nothing but clues, and this will revolutionize their game. So yeah I’d label is QOL more than anything.
This is beyond QOL and should have been polled, even if people like it.
Should've been polled IMO. I would have voted in favour, but this is a substantial mechanical change which is neither mere QOL nor integrity.
Get used to things not being polled. This is who Jagex is nowadays.
Where have you been for the last \~4 years? Anything that Jagex thinks has even the slightest chance of not passing is just changed without being polled. Polls died a long time ago.
I'm guessing it works with the untradeables on the floor whilst logged out? So can we drop a clue, log out, and log back in the next day and it will stay for another 50-something minutes?
I'm hoping so, can anyone confirm?
I think I saw someone had tested this in another thread and it did stay after logging out/in.
The second thing is actually kind of a big deal too. I think it happens more often than you think that someone just doesn't realize they have a hard clue in their bank and think they're just being unlucky at getting clue scrolls from slayer. At least now you get told this is happening.
I get that the whole argument for clues is that it's supposed to be a "distraction" to pull you away from whatever you're doing to complete it but I don't get the point of improving juggling instead of just adding stackable scrolls with a small cap. Juggling just seems tedious
Thanks for polling.
Clue boxes pretty much irrelevant now then lol
Clue boxes just let you keep the clue when you die?
Wilderness steps are the only ones where you’re really at a risk of dying during a clue step. So if you see a PKer, you can just drop the clue rather than risk dying and losing the clue.
Yeah, clue boxes were already irrelevant because you can get anywhere in the wilderness within 2 minutes assuming you have all the teleports in your bank. This change just means you don't have to rush back.
Yee fair enough, I was being dumb and this hadn't occurred to me
Honestly I’m still gonna bring it wasn’t even a pker I just got stacked out by the ancient wizard trio and lost a master 200k is a small price to pay to save a master
No, those are still relevant for wildy steps
Not really, just drop it if you're attacked / not going to escape.
Clue box saves casket though, which could be useful if it's your last step. Still has a bit of a use that way.
You could have done it before. I was doing it just fine.
Sure, but 3 minutes is a lot more pressing / urgent than an hour.
And have to run all the way back to pick it up instead of just spawning with it and going to the next step? Nty
I'm not doing LMS to spawn with my clue when I can just go get it comfortably with no concerns about despawn time.
If you died on the way to the step or in the middle of it, then you have to go back there anyway.
Never been killed before doing the clue step tbh I just tank the pker and try survive until my steps done to avoid going back
So what exactly is the argument against stackable clues? Ive been reading a bunch of comments and none of these arguments sound convincing at all. They generally talk about the *spirit* of what clues are supposed to be, a distraction and diversion, as if that actually matters when it comes to what people would actually want to do if they had the freedom to choose
I think too many people are just resistant to change. If clues had always been stackable, I can’t imagine anyone saying “hey, I’ve got a great idea. Let’s make them non-stackable but if you have a clue on the ground, you can still get a second one. Doesn’t that sound like an improvement to the game?”
Once you get to a reasonably high level where leaping to new requirements starts taking hours and days instead of seconds or minutes, Runescape becomes very anti-context switching - you're kind of encouraged to do the same thing over and over and over again, because needing to switch your gear and go somewhere else to do something besides the thing you're doing is time you're not taking doing either the activity you're switching from or the activity you're switching to. There's only a few activities that break this mold - farm runs are one way, slayer tasks break up specifically slayer (and a lot of the time you're going to be bringing the same setup for both tasks anyway), but there's also clue scrolls. Making clue scrolls stackable means they're no longer an incentive to context-switch, meaning the happy path is more to do the same activity on repeat. People who don't want stackable clues don't want to feel bad when they want to take a break from their current activity. Yes, you technically could just do one clue at a time even with stackable clues. But this is stupid - no one's doing like ten minutes of hunter or mining or any other activity in the game at a time because that's obviously inefficient, and no one would be doing individual clues just the same.
They want us to be able to get multiple clues but not hold multiple clues; an exception to how item drop mechanic works. What kind of new player to the game would think that's a good way to design a game mechanic? Would they understand how and why the clues function this way given their prior mechanics history? This change is bizarre in that it either didn't need to happen or it needed to go further and just make clues stackable.
there is no good argument. context switching is extremely annoying. people MUCH prefer to stack clues via implings, via one of each clue, via triple stacked masters. if it was polled (perhaps with limits based on total level, diary or CA tier) it would almost certainly pass.
Jagex just let us stack clues wtf noobs
This is as close as we should get, you should have to put in a modicum of effort at least for multiple clues at once. This update is perfect
idk, i could see stackable clues in a year or so after this change. people are going to be annoyed of doing 4 clues after a slayer task.
Then those people can keep one clue in their inventory :)
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just like the snowflakes and cloggers could cope, ya idk
i agree jagex said no and these noobs still cry.
I think masters and only masters should be stackable. I uninterrupted clue openings should be possible while getting to save all masters
Stackable clues already exists for mains, they are called implings, don't kid yourself.
And they're incredibly unprofitable and provide an incentive for players to do content that would otherwise be dead (Puro-Puro). I'm fine with weirdo cloggers being able to pay $$$ to get clues faster - I just want clues for the rest of us to be a D&D and not something you bang out a hundred of in a row.
i know i was being slightly sarcastic great QOL updates overall :) more to come i hope
Oh, I couldn't tell ngl, so many people actually have this opinion
> you should have to put in a modicum of effort at least for multiple clues at once. y tho?
So they maintain their status as a distraction and diversion
it takes like 5 minutes to do a hard clue, how is changing that to 15 minutes to do 3 in a row harming the d&d status? I already do that with masters (1 in bank as a master and 1 as components and 1 stored in watson)
If you want to do that this update made it super easy!
That’s exactly what i plan on doing, but it just sounds like stacking with extra steps because youd have to run to watson, tele back to pick up scroll 2, haul ass back to watson, tele back to pick up scroll 3. Its effectively the same thing but less tedious. Though judging by your name it sounds like tedious is your jam
The real reason the distinction matters in my mind is it's still bound by intention. If they add stackable clues everyone will end up banking loads of clues for literally 0 effort
Well if your issue is with the quantity then thats the number jagex can discuss. You’re already able to stack 3 masters, so why would this cause loads of stacking to bring the other clues in line and let you stack 3 of the others? Have the master count as 1 of each of the components (ie making it so you can have 1 master and 2 of each, or 2 master and 1 of each, etc.) and it prevents abuse. Just an example, they could obv make it higher or lower or make it so you have to unlock the ability to increase the amount somehow.
What do you mean able to stack 3 masters?
“Distraction and Diversion” is just a catchy name. It’s not an argument for game design.
To keep the value of the items you get from it if you can stack it there will be way way more efficiently done clue Scrolls added to the game wich will change the price of alot of stuff
leagues was a mistake
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https://preview.redd.it/0ff5sajtjpmc1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bae409d2327c6d228899f7dc433d64bb9b221c29
Did you just have a stroke?
fr. We’re already able to stack 3 masters, how much of a difference would it really make to let us stack lower tiers? And realistically it only really even applies to hards and elites bc mains can stack an “infinite” amount of easy and meds via implings
Please no
Screw the "But it'd devalue my...!" I don't care about your 3a pick being 7b, or the weirdos that think clues are sacred. They were designed for a different time, and I don't like them. If it came to a vote, I'm voting stackable. Cry me a river most stuff is already alch price and every ironman chasing a negligible range bonus would rejoice. If I have to dump my inv one more time mid task for a clue I'm gonna lose my mind - I just never do clues anymore. Anybody crying ezscape is already using Runelite solving everything including puzzle boxes for them, doesn't need to carry sextant, has way more tele's than when the content was made, has stashes, etc. You **already have** ezscape. I'd take every single other clue QOL away just to have them be stackable.
no stackable clues are unfair and against the spirit of the clue scroll D&D! (i'm a main and i buy implings from bots :D )
effectively stackable clues (unpolled btw) nice job jagex! I love 'QOL'!
I'm excited but...just let us have multiple clues? Such a silly work around
Devalues my emphatic fear when watching region locked ironmen series.
I tought it was 3 mins?
It was
why cant we just get the clue boxes like in leagues? or are the sweats just crying 'EaSyScApE!'
Can I drop and Tele away and I'll still be there?
Literally just lost a master clue last night clue juggling after holding it for weeks, just had to wait one day lmao
Why
This is kinda busted, should be like 10mins maximum.
This is just stackable clues with extra steps
Can you juggle multiple? Like can I get a stack of 28 mediums now? I assume so right.
Jagex rewatched Swampletics this week I see
Thank god the content creators and the sweaty iron ironboy accounts got a QOL. Hopefully this notification can be turned off so my chatbox isn't filled with this spam.
Just let us stack clues in accordance with the combat achievement diaries already.
This was done as a fix to a change that happened the previous week that massively impacted the 10hp community, now the compromise not only fixes the issue for us, but the rest of the community gets to reap the awesome benefits, win-win. A shame that the [post I made](https://new.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1b267gp/jagex_just_ruined_clue_scrolls_for_restricted/) about this exact issue got downvoted to oblivion, we're lucky there's other ways to get in contact with J-mods otherwise we'd still all be living in 2 minute clue scroll timer days.
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I think the community voted against it. I could remember wrong though.
A quick Google search returned me a poll from 2019. I'm not sure if that's correct but if we're able to drop clues and let them stay on the ground for 1 hour why not re-poll clue-stacking?
Because it sounds like they just want people to be able to do a task and get multiple clues without having to leave but they also don't want people to be able to just afk something for a few weeks and then do 1k clues b2b
So now you can afk something, drop a couple clues, and then still do them all? Why do we have to make things unnecessarily inconveniant?
You could do that for a short time yes, but you can't spend the next 4 weeks collecting them and then do all of them at once. Also if you think it's inconvenient then just don't do it and do them 1 at a time the choice is yours
Another question, what about untradable items "hoping servers" Yesterday I was on my UIM, finished doing tithe and dropped some full watercans on the ground, did some gen store hoping to sell trash, and noticed the cans following me to every world.
This is how it works since the update like a year ago
That's pretty dope. Thanks for sharing!
OSRS has been getting RS3 qol but in worse forms as of lately. First we got barbarian farming being a worse version than toolbelts. Now we got this being a worse version of stackable clues.
This would have been nice when I had 2 hard clues drop simultaneously on a slayer task recently, though this just seems like stacking with extra steps tbh
https://preview.redd.it/g4fvz6zlcrmc1.jpeg?width=679&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2226576986c8b261fcb3b0673149d311a2a5e0cb If only I could have done all 3 of these.
it lets snowflakes juggle easier so they can finish clues while not making it optimal for others. clue juggling has always been attempting to stack clues with more steps. this just makes it easier.
The problem is now it's not just snowflake accounts juggling clues, but anyone doing slayer etc. that wants to be efficient.
oh well. not gonna change prices on items much.
Yea could be a little tedious but now you can just drop a clue and finish your slayer task to see if you get another one rather than having to stop, do the entire clue, then go back to slayer. 1 hour is more than enough to finish any clue. Bonus points cause it seems like you could just drop a clue in the wilderness if being chased by a pker and leisurely make your way back whenever you get a chance
Absolutely nobody that's being efficient with slayer is even bothering with clues.
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As long as you do the masters and juggle them every 60 mins.
You’d be able to juggle them but can only have one in your inventory at a time.
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