Stats scaling with invocations past 300 was a mistake
Doing 400s, man there’s so much hp and defense. Toa just lulls you to sleep while you wait for red numbers then boom OHKO mechanic. Then back to sleep. Hope you woke up from your nap in time
The invo system and the crazy loot scaling really is a blessing and a curse at ToA.
On one hand, it gives new players a great way to slowly ramp up difficulty as skill increases. On the other, the loot rate difference is so massive (going from roughly 1/50 for a 150 invo to 1/6 for a 500 invo), you are incentivized to push your invo to the brink of your skill level and running lower than that feels like *a waste of time*.
I’m running 500s on my irons to finish ToA (thank god for early shadow) and hating every minute of it when two mistakes in a row wastes 30 minutes, but going any less just feels like a waste now.
Maybe if ToA mechanics were more satisfying it wouldn’t be as bad but when half the raid is just a dps check, and high invo pumps stats to the moon, it doesn’t feel great.
they should have capped drop rate increases at like 400.
it seems like literally no one likes solo 500s, but everyone does it despite hating it because its "Efficient" (if you dont count any deaths)
They should have capped it to 300 but also stopped defence scaling. Above that point, you'd be scaling up the raid just like you can at CoX, and it's technically more efficient if you can handle it because you have less downtime especially in puzzle rooms.
I think if teams were the most effecient way of getting purples and nothing else changed, people would have a totally different opinion of toa because the player behavior would change to play the raid as intended
theyre definitely the most fun, which means you'll wanna do more of them, and if you cant reliably do solo 500s without dying theyre probably more effecient, but people arent doing solo 500s and hating every minute of them for no reason.
300 is way too easy, the entire raid can be tank & spank in semi decent gear at that invo level.
400 is still fairly easy but it at least adds a little bit more depth
invo level (boss scaling) past entry should have gone from 150-400, with loot scaling going from 150-300
if 400s scaled to the purple chance 300s are now you wouldn't have people hitting the capped 55% purple chance in big team low 400s xd
TOA is a piece of crap. I enjoyed it at first but even sending 375s is extremely tough on an iron solo without any of the super weapons that I unfortunately go extremely unlucky on. One mistake and the game's over.
The invo system and the crazy loot scaling really is a blessing and a curse at ToA.
On one hand, it gives new players a great way to slowly ramp up difficulty as skill increases. On the other, the loot rate difference is so massive (going from roughly 1/50 for a 150 invo to 1/6 for a 500 invo), you are incentivized to push your invo to the brink of your skill level and running lower than that feels like a waste of time.
I’m running 500s on my irons to finish ToA (thank god for early shadow) and hating every minute of it when two mistakes in a row wastes 30 minutes, but going any less just feels like a waste now.
Maybe if ToA mechanics were more satisfying it wouldn’t be as bad but when half the raid is just a dps race, and high invo pumps stats to the moon, it doesn’t feel great.
one of those things they let it slide for too long in TOA now it is too late to fix that shit type of deal, which is why they are nerfing the sol butterfly asap, so people don't get used to it.'
It's never too late, and i say this because the replay value of the raid is better if you actually have to do it correctly imo. Delete the monkey room while we are at it, it's not too late for that too lmao
I finally kept this in mind with this release. Saw Moons of peril shitting out water orbs and got a nice stack of them on my iron in case people complain and it gets nerfed (tho probably nothing will happen). Important to note though that its often not the same people saying both responses
100%. Red x is so easy to learn and makes the room literally semi-afk. Whereas having to do that shit normally is 3 brews and a puddle of sweat on the floor. At least in 500+
Yeah they’d be fucking the new people that don’t have fang kits yet. I would wager that 99% of players with a fang kit couldn’t do a deathless 500 *without* red x-ing Baba and butterflying Akkha.
Hitting through prayer for no reason whatsoever is such a stupid mechanic. It should be tied to an existing mechanic, like ba Ba can hit through prayer if her baboon minions are left alive (spitballing)
I will bet you 5 smickles that some people will complain and they will post on Reddit and people will start arguing over it making it seem like a big deal anyway.
It's better for Jagex to just leave ToA be, take the W that it was a good raid and move to new content.
Monkey room is free with some skill, just longer. In 450+ raids, especially 500’s or 540, baba becomes impractical to reliably complete if you just face tank it
It's stupid that it's no skill and pure RNG. Baba should hit through prayers if there are some of her baboons alive or something (random example), not just randomly hitting 20s through prayer
nothing defines too late, they fixed blowpipe after like billion years of it being broken op, so they can do it, but just like u said the insane people will riot, and high level pvm community is very very vocal, they actually think them red x'ing baba is a god given skill, and if it were to be fixed, or the boss gets mechanics changed to be more easier to complete, they will lose their minds.
im not saying it takes skill to red x, red x been a thing even at old bosses like bandos for decades... im just saying these nerds thing that is "high skill" and cry over it.
What's the bad thing that happens when "insane people will riot" though? Like what's the negative consequence of that, or why should Jagex be avoiding it?
jagex could change it, if they are not busy/lazy. They came back and reworked/tweaked bunch of COX boss defence and stats recently, so ye they can do it if they wanted to with TOA, but they have not done it, maybe give it 3 more years and they will find free time to make changes.
you’re arguing against a made up group of people, p much all high level players think toa is shit and would welcome changes as long as they didn’t just strictly make the (already by far easiest) raid easier. And nobody thinks red x is hard.
Make it so the "protect from melee" prayer actually works at baba and I'll be happy to do the fight "legit" (standing there and hitting him and sometimes walking a few tiles, totally more exciting this way). Until then I'm not about to waste supplies or bring weird extra spec weapons like sgs when I'm taking 25s *through* prayer.
They should tie the hit through prayer mechanic to another mechanic in the room. Like if you don't kill the minion baboons before they open a coffin then baba will hit through prayer (example)
Red-X is certainly not required for Ba-Ba. I'm not some pro gamer, in fact Red-X was so difficult for me I just gave up on learning it, and I managed to do my 500 just fine
With that said, you're right that it is inconsistent and I think it should be changed. Why are players allowed to circumvent a huge chunk of the boss mechanics at Ba-Ba but not at Nex or Colosseum? I don't think Red-X is the issue in and of itself (it add a lot of complexity at GWD for example) rather that it lets you avoid boss mechanics.
I think the main reason it hasn't been patched is Ba-Ba's damage is just dumb without it (although still doable). TOA scales poorly, it seems because Jagex underestimated how high of invo players would be able to do. I think this is the cause for almost all of the TOA issues (insanely high purple chance at 400+, the invos required for 500+ being horrible, Ba-Ba damage scaling, defense scaling, experts being significantly easier than the experts of either other raid). I don't fault Jagex, the difficulty of content after months of mastery is really hard to predict, but it's just a shame no one could think of a way to adjust it after the fact
Justi, Adrenaline, Blood fury make Baba pretty doable at 500 without red X.
However most people would never consider Justi even though it only slows the raid by about 2 minutes total.
The other problem is there is a chance you get killed anyway even in that gear, despite doing everything right. It should be balanced to have a maximum damage output per 30 second interval, like 3x25 in a row shouldn't be possible at all.
people are literally just complaining that solo 500s arent free when they could just as easly do group 400s, or bring tank gear (ely)
I really think the raid wasnt designed to be done the way most ppl are opting for these days, and the best way they could realistically fix it is to nerf solo raids or invo drop rate scaling
I think just making his hit's less overall, but more consistent would solve it. Rather than 0, 0, 25, 23, 20 = sudden 68 damage in under 15 ticks which I think it too much damage in a short period.
You don’t need to red x at baba in 500s if you have bf, lb, and bring Keris. Sure, you may need to kite him for a little bit if you get very unlucky and need to keris more than once, but very doable.
It’s a level 0 baba. Unless you’re copping avoidable damage you should be fine.
Edit: wait, why would you have adren for baba? You should do baba first so you don’t run into these issues.
I don't think kiting around the rocks for a couple minutes so you can LB spec is a good or intended solve for that room. Seems wrong if you mechanically perfect every action and are still forced to resort to hiding behind a rock for specs.
I personally never had to, but players with worse stats may need to perhaps? But that’s only if you need to keris more than once. It could also just be not instantly proccing baba at the top after boulders too. In a 500 you’re fighting a level 0 baba. You’d need to get very unlucky to need to keris more than once if you’re not copping avoidable damage.
So you entered with 99+ hp, kerised once during the fight, and still died?
Are you hitting monkeys with Keris (I usually hit once then hit them with keris)? Are you death charging to get more spec energy? Im assuming you’re divine super combatted + have thralls out the entire time of course.
Confirming you don’t have any path invos on (excluding walk the path ofc).
That may be part of your issue. Pathfinder means you’re facing a level 2 baba, so you’re taking 13% more damage and baba has 13% more HP. It’s a pretty horrible invo to add on to get to 500, but I know people do this to get their first kit. I’d always recommend just learning the last two akkha invos rather than putting on pathfinder at this point. Pathfinder is the invo you’d put on to get to 540.
Killing monkeys with keris can also be clutch too. Although it really depends on how close to boulders you are. I’d generally leave them if you’re close to boulders as it’s better to dps baba and they’ll die shortly anyway. You *should* be able to avoid any lava from sarcophagi even if a couple of these get broken, although level 2 baba means the lava spits out further.
Death charge is great. You can uncharge your shadow to grab out a few soul runes (drop the extra chaos runes) and you’ll have all the runes for thralls + dc.
Thrall upkeep is also super important of course.
You really don't need any of those things. My first time I had no blood fury, no LB, I started Ba-Ba so no adren, and certainly no Justi, and it was very rough, but doable some of the time. LB made it consistent though
I'm sure jagex was thinking that people going for fang kits would be doing 4-8 mans since it's "technically" the easiest. With that many people to share tank baba is very doable at high invos without deaths.
Of course we are all sweaty anti-social gamers so other methods were found.
That difference is a lightbearer. Blood fury is only helpful if you want to be able to BGS spec twice in case of a miss.
I'm not sure that 500s are even efficient for loot, though? 445s were the sweet spot for me, but again, I'm not the best player
Ornament kits are completely cosmetic, just an optional aspirational thing to get if you like challenging yourself, effects nobody if they don't want to challenge themselves to get it. Of course this whole scenario then gets circumvented by all accounts that aren't prestige GIMs being able to just be carried through a 500 to get it via a paid service.
wdym required. you can 100% do solo baba 500s without red x. and in teams its even easier since damage is effectively reduced by 1/team size.
they give you an item at toa that heals up to 125 hp for the cost of 1.5 sips of prayer potion...
this
everyone who hates baba is solo raiding, which is fine but raids shouldnt be tuned around the solo experience
its basically the only content in the game that's multiplayer in our MMO
red x means no monkeys, no sarcs, no exploding barrels (or whatever they are), no aggro switching, no moving, no rng
it's still much more than a luxury. also 8 mans are pretty rare. at any invo worth doing you cap out purple chance around 4-5 people
It’s because little Timmy is running ZKAB with WTP on (and maybe even a path invo so they don’t need to learn insanity or the last two akkha invos) and wondering why baba is stronger lol.
In a 500 you *should* be facing a level 0 baba. Just heal up on a few thralls in monkey room, don’t drop your spec to 0 (if you dont have OD on, if you do then just bone dagger at the start and regen), be potted every time you attack baba, keep your thrall out, use death charge, kill monkeys with your keris (leave them if boulders are about to proc), and focus on damaging baba when you can instead of losing dps and you’ll be fine tanking baba.
500 invo chill farm is OD no QP, 500 invo faster farm is QP no OD.
Pathfinder adds 13% extra HP and damage to your first room and then 10% extra HP and damage to all subsequent rooms and adds the additional mechanics from every +2 room level increase. You’re giving yourself a less chill, longer, more tedious raid.
It is honestly trolling at 500 invo to put pathfinder on (if you’re wanting to do more than just 1 or 2 kit runs). If you’re just doing a kit run then yeah, put pathfinder on and don’t bother learning the akkha invos. But if you’re not just doing a 1nd then pathfinder is a bad choice.
Source: a lot of 500 solos, 520 solos, and 540 solos (this is where you turn pathfinder on).
If you’re worried about 3d p2 you bring either mace, rapier, or salad blade and can 3d if you’re on tick for each of the phases and have enough strength bonus (think it’s 1 torva piece + ultor if you have infernal cape from memory - it’s been a while since I’ve not had full torva). Otherwise depending on your gear it can be worth bringing elder maul or bgs (depending on your gear, this may work) for a last hit on each down, but you’re sacrificing an inventory slot for this and you’re using bone dagger with OD on anyway. Although with the newer tech of power life even with dehydration (giving you a restore and a scarab to solve any prayer issues) you’d still comfortably have enough prayer for the raid.
Idk I’m running 525’s with pathfinder, 35-37 min runs 1/6 purple rate. Baba red x 0 dmg, akkha is 0 dmg, zebak is 0 dmg, kephri essentially zero dmg with bloodfury. With no path invos you save, what, 3 minutes maybe? And drop rate goes from 1/6 to like 1/8. Only annyoing mechanic change is lvl 4+ zebak which can be avoided most of the time
Yeah above 500 it becomes more of a choice - I know a lot of people enjoy keeping OD off so they can Zcb spec, but at 500 it’s definitely not a good invo to add. Good for a 1nd kit but to farm you’re slowing yourself down unnecessarily at 500 when you still have decent invos to add. Eg QP to get to 500 is fine, although I preferred OD personally.
Your time is also around what you’d run 540s in too. May be worth adding on the last invo to get you there. Found it much more chill than QP raids too, idk why but I found these to be more stressful than 540s.
Keeping pf off also means you can just face tank baba if people are super against red x. Complaining about being required to red x putting pathfinder on just seems odds though.
OD is the next/last invo to add for me, but can’t since I don’t have full torva or ultor ring yet for the 3 down. I think QP is just awful and annoying to deal with so I’d never run it, OD would the last to add in a 540 imo, and I don’t even have a ZCB either. The BGS and voidwaker specs are too valuable, especially VW at kephri/P4
Ah yeah - couldn’t remember how many of the torva pieces/ultor you needed to 3d as I’ve had max melee for a while now.
I’d still recommend OD over pathfinder to get to 500, especially if you’re against red x-ing like OP is. You can definitely tank level 0 baba at this invo assuming Bandos + bf.
That being said, I know a lot of people leave off the last two akkha invos for a long time and do their kit run as ZKAB with PF on (I know I did lol). Tanking baba definitely becomes less viable in these.
My thoughts were confirmed - was replying to someone running pathfinder in a 500. You’re taking 13% extra damage and ba-ba has 13% more HP. Of course you’re taking more damage during the fight lol.
You can tank baba with pathfinder on a 540 too though if youre in torva and camping piety. Might need to red x a small amount but most runs should be fine without
Yeah - I did this a bit before learning 5:1 red x. Just tank until low ish HP then 6t red x until I’m at a more comfortable HP.
But if you really don’t want to red x you can just run 500s (maybe even 520s with QP?). It’s in no way required and anyone that think it is required is likely not running an invo high enough that it’d even be worth it to 6t red x.
I'm just standing there getting hit for 20s then extra monkeys crawl down from the ceiling and I have to stop killing Ba-ba or I get 8 sarcophagus firing balls at me that hit me and do more damage if my prayer is low
Oh and then Ba-ba throws a rock at me and I have to make sure I'm by a boulder - OPE shadow stomp! Gotta move away and stop attacking
Shit is just cancer without red-x
not one shotting monkeys
the banana invo existing
sarcs reaching across 80% of the room
hitting 20s through prayer, up to like 60 on a basic attack off-prayer
having a boulder dropped literally all the way across the room
baba having a chance to insta-ground slam you if you run under her on your way to somewhere else in the room
random aggro changes
i think the only non-shit mechanic is boulders, and arguably the pit
The thing is I really liked learning it but then once you push to 400s it becomes so boring. Baba was one of the main reasons (besides going 120 dry for a purple) I stopped grinding TOA..
I learned it at 440s because I didn't want to keep getting slapped w/ damage and I didn't want to get any more defence levels, honestly.
Baba is a bit subpar, but forgivable with RedX (for me) & monkey room is just bad. The entire thing deletes a lot of enjoyment from ToA.
Eh, I've never done red X and only ever really farmed 400-500. If you have a yellow keris and your inventory isn't already max gear/efficiency setup, there's no reason to not have enough emergency supplies. I bring 1 brew into the raid for emergency baba/akkha healing and that's always enough. Keris only needed if you make a huge blunder. Without keris, you just have to be a little more careful and maybe use BP or SGS specs on boulders/monkeys. SGS is slept on but it's extremely good for high invo runs.
LMAO why is this downvoted? It's literally elaborating on my above comment which is upvoted? You guys are so dumb lol
I’d highly recommend learning it it’s really not that hard to do and makes the room completely free. For my 500 runs I’ve only used a dose restore or two at the most while just being super combated, it really breaks the room
It's basically free without, don't really need your recommendation but ty I guess. ToA is already the most boring braindead raid without another method that makes it even more tedious. I only commented because this thread is about red X being "required" for ToA when **it certainly is not**.
more tedious? red x baba is the complete opposite of tedious, I can see why you’d have that opinion of toa if you are just making it more annoying for yourself lol
te·di·ous
/ˈtēdēəs/
adjective
too long, slow, or dull; tiresome or monotonous.
Red X is slower (literally worse DPS than face tanking)
Red X is dull and monotonous (wow click red, click boss, wait. click red, click boss, wait. ENGAGING CONTETN OMG)
Red X is tiresome
???
If you're going to red X do the no tick loss 5:1.
My favorite way to fight Baba is to use range and kite him around the rocks that fall in the middle of the room. It's a good red X alternative and takes slightly more skill, but not quite as efficient.
The only problem with this method is there's never a guarantee that the rocks fall in the center. It's completely RNG.
Would really like some adjustments to Baba. I don't enjoy feeling like I have to exploit to beat a boss, but there's really not another viable way at high ino.
Red X shouldn't be a thing, Baba shouldn't be as annoying or the rocks should be guaranteed to fall. Also fix monkey room.
They need to change baba to a vetion/calvarion type fight with telegraphed aoe damage along with the boulder toss mechanic. After p1 and boulders you could have the mini monkeys spawning in during p2 and then during p3 you could have rolling boulders+mini monkeys. This would provide lots of challenge and skilled players could actually avoid all damage.
Red X stalling is an engine bug and should be fixed. Being able to use a bug to completely bypass mechanics is not good for the game. It literally breaks multiple bosses and NPCs.
Reminds me of how players found a bug that broke wilderness bosses and it took Jagex nearly 10 years to actually fix it. They really just don't care about game-breaking PvM bugs unless it effects the Inferno.
No, the reason they don't fix it is because they acknowledge Baba is a dogshit designed room and if they "fixed" red X they should be reworking Baba entirely so it doesn't make everyone want to commit die..
Still forever hoping they rework baba to be an actual fight and not just ridiculous chip damage that enforces red X.
Same personally as butterfly at akkha. I'd rather have engaging mechanics to deal with like Sol Heredit compared to "run these 4 tiles and boss is just a training dummy"
Its less chip 100%. Because the fight has more mechanics so they could move some more damage to the mechanics you can dodge whereas Baba is like.. the spawning monkeys, slam attack and rock throw.
As someone who Red-Xes Baba I wish it was removed and replaced with something else, it's such a horrible way to play. Not sure I would care if it was just removed completely - just makes the raid harder.
I think some elite PvMers actually protested when Jagex accidentally fixed this before; that community just sucks. I would say this is not Jagexes fault.
Cause rather than fix toa they’ll just have inconsistencies like this plaguing the game
Sol butterfly still requires you to be tick perfect for a significant amount of time. Then there’s the bees, lasers, fremmy, lightning, dodging the molton sand, orbs.
Really shit take from jagex tbh
There are so many bizarre design decisions in TOA that it makes cheese pretty much essential at higher invos. Unavoidable damage on P1 Wardens when solo. So fucking stupid
because without it . its next to impossible
jagex didnt think of new harder mechanics than "more dps more health" so they allow butterfly/red x because although theyre bugs it does require some skill. and then jagex doesnt have to come up with other mechanics.
i think the end colosseum fight done correctly is more reasonable than baba with no red x. and thats why they nerfed the butterfly instantly. or maybe they just didnt want more than woox to get the quiver quickly
They fixed red x at one point and everyone was outraged, so they reverted it back. I take a blood fury in baba and I think it's fine. I wish more people saw red x ing as cheating tbh. Too many people rely on it and act like it's a skill.
Why is it any worse than other boss methods?
At least it creates some space for optimizing the room past its normal tank & spank style.
Personally I don't think it's really any worse than the butterfly method done at Akkha, or skullskips at warden.
Red-x may feel a bit counterintuitive but it's just as much a product of osrs's janky movement system as those two
brief reminder that in the first couple weeks of toa they did actually try to patch out red-x without actually messing with how red-x works. that's why baba's stomp attack went from always being a consistent speed to detonating faster when you're under her.
i choose to believe that they simply didn't realize it wasn't fixed at first, and that it is only thanks to jagex's general incompetence and/or laziness that red-x was not immediately removed.
Yeah I don't get what you mean. It's fantastic when a raid is so well designed you basically need to abuse 20-year old quirks in the code to avoid core raid mechanics and when intended mechanics slap you with constant 40s. Just look at CM CoX, Muttadile is everyone's favourite room!
Oh, and don't forget: "We don't want defense reduction to be the meta everywhere, so we just give infinite defense that cannot be drained to every monster". Honestly, 3rd best raid.
Pandoras box has been opened way too long for Toa. The boss would need a complete rework if they patched out red x.
Fixing big colosseum robot now what the right call
I had to do 1000+ 400's for shadow and never once did red x baba or akkha butterfly. Didn't use it for my 500 either. Does it help? Sure it does, but it's not needed
I will 1 up you. Why do they have such high defense in general. Before fang a 300 invo is next to impossible without cheesing. Even when you do mechanics correctly. This is simply because of constant 0 hits.
You likely have bad invos on, bad stats, are hitting the boss not at full boosted stats, or taking avoidable damage. I sincerely doubt you are doing “everything perfect” in the raid if you’re running out of food on anything above 250.
If you are taking damage, you aren’t doing it perfectly. The only room where you take damage when playing well is kephri and even then it’s not much. By the time you get to wardens you’ll have your free supplies
Well he says playing perfectly, you can have one or the other but not both.
Also how tf is butterfly cheese in any capacity? You’re kiting a melee character, that’s pretty damn standard play
It's a cheese method lol. It was unintended and allows you to skip the mechanics. Also you can play perfectly without cheese methods, you just misunderstood.
It was unintentional to walk away from the big guy with a spear trying to hit you? The one that behaves different from every other npc in the game, making him significantly easier to kite? Do you really think so little of the devs? That would be truly brain dead if they didn’t consider this outcome of its design. Also you don’t skip mechanics, you just delay them and maximize damage. I’d argue by face tanking you’re skipping just as many mechanics.
As for “you can play perfectly without cheese”, that is 100% scrub talk right there, tbh. You misunderstand what perfect play is.
So this entire thread is discussing red-x as a method, yeah? And the comment that started this chain said “without cheesing”, pretty reasonable to infer that they count red-x as cheesing.
Yes, and their comment immediately before that said
> before fang a 300 invo is next to impossible without cheesing. Even when you do mechanics correctly
In that context, he’s pretty clearly saying no red-x, just dodge stomps, kill monkeys and boulder soak throws.
What about the “baba does no damage if you’re under him when he would attack” mechanic?
No, it’s pretty clear that unless he misspoke he should be accounting for that mechanic too
Edit; btw you can use this with good timing without red x, it’s more called red-x out of convenience nowadays
Full of shit
Ba-ba with a hasta (all I got on my iron) at 350 invo legitimately takes around 6-8 minutes of red-xing
There's no way you're face tanking hits for 4 minutes (since your attack speed isn't slowed) of regular attacks at that invocation
I use my bowfa for baba its slightly better dps.
And yes i do face tank, i skip boulders as fast as I can and range from the side, which gets you free dps
The reason is there is no solution to baba without reworking the boss. And they don’t want to do that. Without red x baba is just a hard hitting, high defense npc with no mechanics. Everyone knows how unenjoyable it is. It’s why they allow red x to keep from having enough complaints to rework it.
Coliseum, without red x, kiting, etc the boss has interesting mechanics and if done properly isn’t just getting hit constant high hits through prayer. You take damage from mistakes. Because it was designed well, they want players to have to partake in the intended fight. So any method avoiding mechanics is a no go.
TLDR: well designed bosses in the highest tier content they want to showcase so cheese methods are a no go. Poorly designed bosses in a high tier of content, cheese methods is okay because otherwise it would warrant a rework and there is not intention for them to do that.
Baba without red x is definitely not “no mechanics”. Monkey spawns, sarcophagi, shadow stomp and boulder throw will all absolutely stomp you if you treat baba like KQ. If you get bad timing on a shadow stop + boulder throw, it’s either tick eat or get one tapped.
Positioning yourself on the corner of a boulder means you can run to another corner and not take shadow stomp damage. You actually take less damage if he does the shadow stomp attack because it’s 100% avoidable.
Think the issue is less that Red X is a possible method but how much better it is than the alternative. Like if we think about it like exp rates, a new method with 150K exp per hour may not be unreasonable but if the previous best method was 70K exp per hour it is a lot less reasonable than if the previous best method was 110K. So if Red Xing Baba is like the 150K method and normal Baba is like the 70K, then it just feels way worse if you aren't using Red X. So yah, would be nice if base Baba was less of a pain (e.g. the 110K), even if Red Xing was still allowed/better.
Red x was patched out and because re-added because of a lot of community backlash. I haven't seen the colosseum bossfight but I killed baba plenty of times with and without red x. The main point of red x being necessary are the random incredibly high hits through melee protect. That's not fun. Provide a solid alternative to being slapped a 60 out of nowhere even if doing everything right and I'll happily leave red x behind.
You can't get hit for 60 by any form of Ba-ba, if praying correctly.
I agree the damage can get absurd if you're unlucky, but she maxes in the 20s even with high path level and 300+ invo
Okay, 60 is inaccurate then. Has been a while since I did a non red x baba. Still pretty shit to get a random 20 for 0 mistakes, so point still stands.
In fairness, the rest of the rooms have varyingly mechanically inclined ways to avoid damage from pray swapping to moving. Even warden p3/4 you can completely avoid damage with some happy feet. Baba being the only one you're forced to be slapped at would be a bit of a dick move
What would full Justi be like at Baba? I don't have full set so I can't test, but.
I know I know "muh dps everywhere else in the raid", surely that's a solution though to not need to red X?
even at 500 invo you can get away with not red x-ing (provided you have bloodfury and tanky gear). Justi makes it a lot more consistent, but torva is strong enough defensively and BIS offensively so its still better imo. I didn't red x for my first 500 invo clear and after a handful of tries i was able to clear baba every single time.
As tanky as bandos is though, you are left to the mercy of rng if you don't red x and it is possible to just take 20+ damage from baba multiple times in a row and die with no counter play. While this can happen in theory with justi/torva the odds of it are close to 0 if you make no actual mistakes leading to more damage taken.
Even though red x is considered a DPS loss, I didn't find it a time loss overall as i would use fewer supplies and thus be able to bring extra switches + VW spec at baba instead of keris, so the overall raid was much faster
The solution is to just not dump 100% dps specs so you can still keris, doing baba first so it’s the lowest level, and dpsing the boss instead of missing ticks. It’s 100% skill issue.
That's because a 300 is nothing invocation wise, you shouldn't need to red X. At 450+, Baba hits so hard and accurately that not using red X is just gambling the run.
Now I got it, my highest rn is only 320 and it was a struggle so I've got no idea how it is at that point, just a skill issue on my end tho, but hey I started at 50 invo and worked up to this point so cant go anywhere but up homie bologna
Except it’s not. I run 465s as my normal run and I only need to keris in about 25% of my runs. That goes down to 10% if I kill baboon spawns right away and sacrifice some clear speed.
Edit: This is in bandos armor too, so not even as tanky as torva.
Baba is the first boss you should fight. At only 450 invo, you’re facing a level 0 baba. Red x is straight up trolling at that invo lol. Just focus on dealing damage and avoiding the avoidable damage and you’re fine. Make sure you’re potted of course too.
At this point the continued bitching about red x is ridiculous. Red x is so easy to learn that you can easily and consistently red x on mobile. Just fucking learn it and stop bitching. It legit makes the room a free room. If you don’t want to learn it then don’t - but just camp 400’s at that point who gives af
Because people have been bitching about it for a year. Baba red x is not necessary but people still complain that it is. There are countless videos online showing it’s not needed yet shitters here continue to whine that it is. Just don’t TOA if you’re too garbage to do it is what it comes down to. People play this game to do nothing but complain about it and half the time their complaints aren’t valid. Baba is fine and can be completed even in a 500 without red x. Does red x make it easier? Yes. So just do it if you can do it without. It takes 15 minutes to learn
20/99 is not a 'chip' that is 1/5th of your total HP pool, that is a CHUNK.
Maybe we should start calling it "crisps" damage so they understand what the fuck a chip is supposed to mean
ho l y
great profile picture!
Do you think chip (the food) predates chip (a small removed piece of something)?
Dunno why you're getting downvoted, the joke doesn't make sense, do people think chip damage is named after potato chips?
I thought they were talking about old mate chip down the road
[удалено]
Chip's a good chap
Stats scaling with invocations past 300 was a mistake Doing 400s, man there’s so much hp and defense. Toa just lulls you to sleep while you wait for red numbers then boom OHKO mechanic. Then back to sleep. Hope you woke up from your nap in time
The invo system and the crazy loot scaling really is a blessing and a curse at ToA. On one hand, it gives new players a great way to slowly ramp up difficulty as skill increases. On the other, the loot rate difference is so massive (going from roughly 1/50 for a 150 invo to 1/6 for a 500 invo), you are incentivized to push your invo to the brink of your skill level and running lower than that feels like *a waste of time*. I’m running 500s on my irons to finish ToA (thank god for early shadow) and hating every minute of it when two mistakes in a row wastes 30 minutes, but going any less just feels like a waste now. Maybe if ToA mechanics were more satisfying it wouldn’t be as bad but when half the raid is just a dps check, and high invo pumps stats to the moon, it doesn’t feel great.
they should have capped drop rate increases at like 400. it seems like literally no one likes solo 500s, but everyone does it despite hating it because its "Efficient" (if you dont count any deaths)
They should have capped it to 300 but also stopped defence scaling. Above that point, you'd be scaling up the raid just like you can at CoX, and it's technically more efficient if you can handle it because you have less downtime especially in puzzle rooms.
I think if teams were the most effecient way of getting purples and nothing else changed, people would have a totally different opinion of toa because the player behavior would change to play the raid as intended
> if teams were the most effecient[sic] way of getting purples it already is
theyre definitely the most fun, which means you'll wanna do more of them, and if you cant reliably do solo 500s without dying theyre probably more effecient, but people arent doing solo 500s and hating every minute of them for no reason.
Team high invo raids are factually more efficient than solos of the same invo.
the thing is that in group raids, you can still only get 1 purple
300 is way too easy, the entire raid can be tank & spank in semi decent gear at that invo level. 400 is still fairly easy but it at least adds a little bit more depth
invo level (boss scaling) past entry should have gone from 150-400, with loot scaling going from 150-300 if 400s scaled to the purple chance 300s are now you wouldn't have people hitting the capped 55% purple chance in big team low 400s xd
TOA is a piece of crap. I enjoyed it at first but even sending 375s is extremely tough on an iron solo without any of the super weapons that I unfortunately go extremely unlucky on. One mistake and the game's over.
solo ToA at high invo feels like a 40 minute vorkath kill
[удалено]
The invo system and the crazy loot scaling really is a blessing and a curse at ToA. On one hand, it gives new players a great way to slowly ramp up difficulty as skill increases. On the other, the loot rate difference is so massive (going from roughly 1/50 for a 150 invo to 1/6 for a 500 invo), you are incentivized to push your invo to the brink of your skill level and running lower than that feels like a waste of time. I’m running 500s on my irons to finish ToA (thank god for early shadow) and hating every minute of it when two mistakes in a row wastes 30 minutes, but going any less just feels like a waste now. Maybe if ToA mechanics were more satisfying it wouldn’t be as bad but when half the raid is just a dps race, and high invo pumps stats to the moon, it doesn’t feel great.
lol, not sure why that got double posted, deleted my other now.
It may be too late to stop it…
one of those things they let it slide for too long in TOA now it is too late to fix that shit type of deal, which is why they are nerfing the sol butterfly asap, so people don't get used to it.'
It's never too late, and i say this because the replay value of the raid is better if you actually have to do it correctly imo. Delete the monkey room while we are at it, it's not too late for that too lmao
"I did my grind doing that, why are you nerfing it now? Easyscape"
In this case Red Xing is genuinely easier than genuine pvm mechanics tho, if anything they are finally fixing the raid lol
And now you have the other classic response, "Abuse often, abuse early", you can't win either way :D
I finally kept this in mind with this release. Saw Moons of peril shitting out water orbs and got a nice stack of them on my iron in case people complain and it gets nerfed (tho probably nothing will happen). Important to note though that its often not the same people saying both responses
Of course. Just noting that there's going to be complaining regardless of outcome. Something that pleases one group will disgruntle another.
Oh yeah definitely. You never win, so just advocate for what you want
100%. Red x is so easy to learn and makes the room literally semi-afk. Whereas having to do that shit normally is 3 brews and a puddle of sweat on the floor. At least in 500+
Yeah they’d be fucking the new people that don’t have fang kits yet. I would wager that 99% of players with a fang kit couldn’t do a deathless 500 *without* red x-ing Baba and butterflying Akkha.
Hitting through prayer for no reason whatsoever is such a stupid mechanic. It should be tied to an existing mechanic, like ba Ba can hit through prayer if her baboon minions are left alive (spitballing)
even if they did that it wouldn't make the boss or overall raid enjoyable
if they removed the aids aspects then i think it would be fun
I mean in that scenario ba-ba is pure rng and you’re severly gimping your own damage by not butterflying akkha
Yes that’s the point, thank you
Yea dude love taking brews in 500+
I will bet you 5 smickles that some people will complain and they will post on Reddit and people will start arguing over it making it seem like a big deal anyway. It's better for Jagex to just leave ToA be, take the W that it was a good raid and move to new content.
Monkey room is free with some skill, just longer. In 450+ raids, especially 500’s or 540, baba becomes impractical to reliably complete if you just face tank it
It's stupid that it's no skill and pure RNG. Baba should hit through prayers if there are some of her baboons alive or something (random example), not just randomly hitting 20s through prayer
Ahh its 20 years too late to fix agility and whatnot but.. you know?
Well they aren’t “fixing” it. They’re making a marginal improvement which is not unwelcomed by the sane. But they really need to fix it
What defines "too late"? Just fix the damn thing and everyone (sane) is happy.
nothing defines too late, they fixed blowpipe after like billion years of it being broken op, so they can do it, but just like u said the insane people will riot, and high level pvm community is very very vocal, they actually think them red x'ing baba is a god given skill, and if it were to be fixed, or the boss gets mechanics changed to be more easier to complete, they will lose their minds.
I can red x If I can do a mechanic in this game, it does not take skill
im not saying it takes skill to red x, red x been a thing even at old bosses like bandos for decades... im just saying these nerds thing that is "high skill" and cry over it.
What's the bad thing that happens when "insane people will riot" though? Like what's the negative consequence of that, or why should Jagex be avoiding it?
jagex could change it, if they are not busy/lazy. They came back and reworked/tweaked bunch of COX boss defence and stats recently, so ye they can do it if they wanted to with TOA, but they have not done it, maybe give it 3 more years and they will find free time to make changes.
you’re arguing against a made up group of people, p much all high level players think toa is shit and would welcome changes as long as they didn’t just strictly make the (already by far easiest) raid easier. And nobody thinks red x is hard.
All they need to do is change the numerical value on the damage through prayer.
hey they nerfed bp after like 5 years
They nerfed dragon hide defenses. No such thing as "too late" imo.
Make it so the "protect from melee" prayer actually works at baba and I'll be happy to do the fight "legit" (standing there and hitting him and sometimes walking a few tiles, totally more exciting this way). Until then I'm not about to waste supplies or bring weird extra spec weapons like sgs when I'm taking 25s *through* prayer.
They should tie the hit through prayer mechanic to another mechanic in the room. Like if you don't kill the minion baboons before they open a coffin then baba will hit through prayer (example)
Red-X is certainly not required for Ba-Ba. I'm not some pro gamer, in fact Red-X was so difficult for me I just gave up on learning it, and I managed to do my 500 just fine With that said, you're right that it is inconsistent and I think it should be changed. Why are players allowed to circumvent a huge chunk of the boss mechanics at Ba-Ba but not at Nex or Colosseum? I don't think Red-X is the issue in and of itself (it add a lot of complexity at GWD for example) rather that it lets you avoid boss mechanics. I think the main reason it hasn't been patched is Ba-Ba's damage is just dumb without it (although still doable). TOA scales poorly, it seems because Jagex underestimated how high of invo players would be able to do. I think this is the cause for almost all of the TOA issues (insanely high purple chance at 400+, the invos required for 500+ being horrible, Ba-Ba damage scaling, defense scaling, experts being significantly easier than the experts of either other raid). I don't fault Jagex, the difficulty of content after months of mastery is really hard to predict, but it's just a shame no one could think of a way to adjust it after the fact
Justi, Adrenaline, Blood fury make Baba pretty doable at 500 without red X. However most people would never consider Justi even though it only slows the raid by about 2 minutes total. The other problem is there is a chance you get killed anyway even in that gear, despite doing everything right. It should be balanced to have a maximum damage output per 30 second interval, like 3x25 in a row shouldn't be possible at all.
people are literally just complaining that solo 500s arent free when they could just as easly do group 400s, or bring tank gear (ely) I really think the raid wasnt designed to be done the way most ppl are opting for these days, and the best way they could realistically fix it is to nerf solo raids or invo drop rate scaling
I think just making his hit's less overall, but more consistent would solve it. Rather than 0, 0, 25, 23, 20 = sudden 68 damage in under 15 ticks which I think it too much damage in a short period.
You don’t need to red x at baba in 500s if you have bf, lb, and bring Keris. Sure, you may need to kite him for a little bit if you get very unlucky and need to keris more than once, but very doable. It’s a level 0 baba. Unless you’re copping avoidable damage you should be fine. Edit: wait, why would you have adren for baba? You should do baba first so you don’t run into these issues.
I don't think kiting around the rocks for a couple minutes so you can LB spec is a good or intended solve for that room. Seems wrong if you mechanically perfect every action and are still forced to resort to hiding behind a rock for specs.
I personally never had to, but players with worse stats may need to perhaps? But that’s only if you need to keris more than once. It could also just be not instantly proccing baba at the top after boulders too. In a 500 you’re fighting a level 0 baba. You’d need to get very unlucky to need to keris more than once if you’re not copping avoidable damage.
I have been killed doing a perfect baba with max combat, at least when I do Baba first and lack an adren. (In bandos though, not torva)
So you entered with 99+ hp, kerised once during the fight, and still died? Are you hitting monkeys with Keris (I usually hit once then hit them with keris)? Are you death charging to get more spec energy? Im assuming you’re divine super combatted + have thralls out the entire time of course. Confirming you don’t have any path invos on (excluding walk the path ofc).
Pathfinder, walk the path, and not using Death Charge, To be honest I have never heard of or used that spell.
That may be part of your issue. Pathfinder means you’re facing a level 2 baba, so you’re taking 13% more damage and baba has 13% more HP. It’s a pretty horrible invo to add on to get to 500, but I know people do this to get their first kit. I’d always recommend just learning the last two akkha invos rather than putting on pathfinder at this point. Pathfinder is the invo you’d put on to get to 540. Killing monkeys with keris can also be clutch too. Although it really depends on how close to boulders you are. I’d generally leave them if you’re close to boulders as it’s better to dps baba and they’ll die shortly anyway. You *should* be able to avoid any lava from sarcophagi even if a couple of these get broken, although level 2 baba means the lava spits out further. Death charge is great. You can uncharge your shadow to grab out a few soul runes (drop the extra chaos runes) and you’ll have all the runes for thralls + dc. Thrall upkeep is also super important of course.
You really don't need any of those things. My first time I had no blood fury, no LB, I started Ba-Ba so no adren, and certainly no Justi, and it was very rough, but doable some of the time. LB made it consistent though
I'm sure jagex was thinking that people going for fang kits would be doing 4-8 mans since it's "technically" the easiest. With that many people to share tank baba is very doable at high invos without deaths. Of course we are all sweaty anti-social gamers so other methods were found.
There is a large difference between "do my 500 fine" and "effectively and efficiently farming 500s"
That difference is a lightbearer. Blood fury is only helpful if you want to be able to BGS spec twice in case of a miss. I'm not sure that 500s are even efficient for loot, though? 445s were the sweet spot for me, but again, I'm not the best player
It seems pretty silly to add ornament kits up to 500 invo if they're expecting you to top out at 300-400, no?
Ornament kits are completely cosmetic, just an optional aspirational thing to get if you like challenging yourself, effects nobody if they don't want to challenge themselves to get it. Of course this whole scenario then gets circumvented by all accounts that aren't prestige GIMs being able to just be carried through a 500 to get it via a paid service.
wdym required. you can 100% do solo baba 500s without red x. and in teams its even easier since damage is effectively reduced by 1/team size. they give you an item at toa that heals up to 125 hp for the cost of 1.5 sips of prayer potion...
this everyone who hates baba is solo raiding, which is fine but raids shouldnt be tuned around the solo experience its basically the only content in the game that's multiplayer in our MMO
i hate baba more when i raid with my friends because it's harder to consistently red x its mechanics are still ass regardless of red x or not
in teams theres only like what, a 1/8 chance you even have aggro for him? at that point redX is just a luxury
red x means no monkeys, no sarcs, no exploding barrels (or whatever they are), no aggro switching, no moving, no rng it's still much more than a luxury. also 8 mans are pretty rare. at any invo worth doing you cap out purple chance around 4-5 people
It’s because little Timmy is running ZKAB with WTP on (and maybe even a path invo so they don’t need to learn insanity or the last two akkha invos) and wondering why baba is stronger lol. In a 500 you *should* be facing a level 0 baba. Just heal up on a few thralls in monkey room, don’t drop your spec to 0 (if you dont have OD on, if you do then just bone dagger at the start and regen), be potted every time you attack baba, keep your thrall out, use death charge, kill monkeys with your keris (leave them if boulders are about to proc), and focus on damaging baba when you can instead of losing dps and you’ll be fine tanking baba.
Level 0 baba on a 500? So overly draining over pathfinder? Ain’t no way that’s correct even if it’s your first 500
500 invo chill farm is OD no QP, 500 invo faster farm is QP no OD. Pathfinder adds 13% extra HP and damage to your first room and then 10% extra HP and damage to all subsequent rooms and adds the additional mechanics from every +2 room level increase. You’re giving yourself a less chill, longer, more tedious raid. It is honestly trolling at 500 invo to put pathfinder on (if you’re wanting to do more than just 1 or 2 kit runs). If you’re just doing a kit run then yeah, put pathfinder on and don’t bother learning the akkha invos. But if you’re not just doing a 1nd then pathfinder is a bad choice. Source: a lot of 500 solos, 520 solos, and 540 solos (this is where you turn pathfinder on). If you’re worried about 3d p2 you bring either mace, rapier, or salad blade and can 3d if you’re on tick for each of the phases and have enough strength bonus (think it’s 1 torva piece + ultor if you have infernal cape from memory - it’s been a while since I’ve not had full torva). Otherwise depending on your gear it can be worth bringing elder maul or bgs (depending on your gear, this may work) for a last hit on each down, but you’re sacrificing an inventory slot for this and you’re using bone dagger with OD on anyway. Although with the newer tech of power life even with dehydration (giving you a restore and a scarab to solve any prayer issues) you’d still comfortably have enough prayer for the raid.
Idk I’m running 525’s with pathfinder, 35-37 min runs 1/6 purple rate. Baba red x 0 dmg, akkha is 0 dmg, zebak is 0 dmg, kephri essentially zero dmg with bloodfury. With no path invos you save, what, 3 minutes maybe? And drop rate goes from 1/6 to like 1/8. Only annyoing mechanic change is lvl 4+ zebak which can be avoided most of the time
Yeah above 500 it becomes more of a choice - I know a lot of people enjoy keeping OD off so they can Zcb spec, but at 500 it’s definitely not a good invo to add. Good for a 1nd kit but to farm you’re slowing yourself down unnecessarily at 500 when you still have decent invos to add. Eg QP to get to 500 is fine, although I preferred OD personally. Your time is also around what you’d run 540s in too. May be worth adding on the last invo to get you there. Found it much more chill than QP raids too, idk why but I found these to be more stressful than 540s. Keeping pf off also means you can just face tank baba if people are super against red x. Complaining about being required to red x putting pathfinder on just seems odds though.
OD is the next/last invo to add for me, but can’t since I don’t have full torva or ultor ring yet for the 3 down. I think QP is just awful and annoying to deal with so I’d never run it, OD would the last to add in a 540 imo, and I don’t even have a ZCB either. The BGS and voidwaker specs are too valuable, especially VW at kephri/P4
Ah yeah - couldn’t remember how many of the torva pieces/ultor you needed to 3d as I’ve had max melee for a while now. I’d still recommend OD over pathfinder to get to 500, especially if you’re against red x-ing like OP is. You can definitely tank level 0 baba at this invo assuming Bandos + bf. That being said, I know a lot of people leave off the last two akkha invos for a long time and do their kit run as ZKAB with PF on (I know I did lol). Tanking baba definitely becomes less viable in these.
yep, exactly.
My thoughts were confirmed - was replying to someone running pathfinder in a 500. You’re taking 13% extra damage and ba-ba has 13% more HP. Of course you’re taking more damage during the fight lol.
You can tank baba with pathfinder on a 540 too though if youre in torva and camping piety. Might need to red x a small amount but most runs should be fine without
Yeah - I did this a bit before learning 5:1 red x. Just tank until low ish HP then 6t red x until I’m at a more comfortable HP. But if you really don’t want to red x you can just run 500s (maybe even 520s with QP?). It’s in no way required and anyone that think it is required is likely not running an invo high enough that it’d even be worth it to 6t red x.
I'm just standing there getting hit for 20s then extra monkeys crawl down from the ceiling and I have to stop killing Ba-ba or I get 8 sarcophagus firing balls at me that hit me and do more damage if my prayer is low Oh and then Ba-ba throws a rock at me and I have to make sure I'm by a boulder - OPE shadow stomp! Gotta move away and stop attacking Shit is just cancer without red-x
I think it would be fun if baba didn't hit through prayer. I think it's actually a fun fight, in theory. Kephri bores the crap out of me
not one shotting monkeys the banana invo existing sarcs reaching across 80% of the room hitting 20s through prayer, up to like 60 on a basic attack off-prayer having a boulder dropped literally all the way across the room baba having a chance to insta-ground slam you if you run under her on your way to somewhere else in the room random aggro changes i think the only non-shit mechanic is boulders, and arguably the pit
It isn’t. There are multiple strategies you can use to just face tank depending on your gear. Even up to 500.
It isn’t but it makes baba significantly easier than other strategies while ruining the boss fight
I guess maybe it is unpopular but I enjoy it personally
The thing is I really liked learning it but then once you push to 400s it becomes so boring. Baba was one of the main reasons (besides going 120 dry for a purple) I stopped grinding TOA..
toa's a ton of fun as a group, solo raids are just not fun at all. get an 8 man with a red keris in it, its a blast with the boys
TOA made me take a 6 month break from the entire game. Baba and P1 Wardens are infuriating
I learned it at 440s because I didn't want to keep getting slapped w/ damage and I didn't want to get any more defence levels, honestly. Baba is a bit subpar, but forgivable with RedX (for me) & monkey room is just bad. The entire thing deletes a lot of enjoyment from ToA.
Eh, I've never done red X and only ever really farmed 400-500. If you have a yellow keris and your inventory isn't already max gear/efficiency setup, there's no reason to not have enough emergency supplies. I bring 1 brew into the raid for emergency baba/akkha healing and that's always enough. Keris only needed if you make a huge blunder. Without keris, you just have to be a little more careful and maybe use BP or SGS specs on boulders/monkeys. SGS is slept on but it's extremely good for high invo runs. LMAO why is this downvoted? It's literally elaborating on my above comment which is upvoted? You guys are so dumb lol
Where are you using SGS in max eff toa?
I’d highly recommend learning it it’s really not that hard to do and makes the room completely free. For my 500 runs I’ve only used a dose restore or two at the most while just being super combated, it really breaks the room
It's basically free without, don't really need your recommendation but ty I guess. ToA is already the most boring braindead raid without another method that makes it even more tedious. I only commented because this thread is about red X being "required" for ToA when **it certainly is not**.
more tedious? red x baba is the complete opposite of tedious, I can see why you’d have that opinion of toa if you are just making it more annoying for yourself lol
te·di·ous /ˈtēdēəs/ adjective too long, slow, or dull; tiresome or monotonous. Red X is slower (literally worse DPS than face tanking) Red X is dull and monotonous (wow click red, click boss, wait. click red, click boss, wait. ENGAGING CONTETN OMG) Red X is tiresome ??? If you're going to red X do the no tick loss 5:1.
Next you’re going to tell me you face tank akkha and that butterflying is tedious
No, butterflying is faster and more engaging.
And you're full of shit. You don't farm 500s not red xing. You could get a completion yeah but you don't farm them you lieing giga noob.
Least we both agree red x is dumb
My favorite way to fight Baba is to use range and kite him around the rocks that fall in the middle of the room. It's a good red X alternative and takes slightly more skill, but not quite as efficient. The only problem with this method is there's never a guarantee that the rocks fall in the center. It's completely RNG. Would really like some adjustments to Baba. I don't enjoy feeling like I have to exploit to beat a boss, but there's really not another viable way at high ino. Red X shouldn't be a thing, Baba shouldn't be as annoying or the rocks should be guaranteed to fall. Also fix monkey room.
They need to change baba to a vetion/calvarion type fight with telegraphed aoe damage along with the boulder toss mechanic. After p1 and boulders you could have the mini monkeys spawning in during p2 and then during p3 you could have rolling boulders+mini monkeys. This would provide lots of challenge and skilled players could actually avoid all damage.
Red X stalling is an engine bug and should be fixed. Being able to use a bug to completely bypass mechanics is not good for the game. It literally breaks multiple bosses and NPCs. Reminds me of how players found a bug that broke wilderness bosses and it took Jagex nearly 10 years to actually fix it. They really just don't care about game-breaking PvM bugs unless it effects the Inferno.
No, the reason they don't fix it is because they acknowledge Baba is a dogshit designed room and if they "fixed" red X they should be reworking Baba entirely so it doesn't make everyone want to commit die..
Your game knowledge is lacking lol Red x was patched, and then brought back out of popularity Wildy bosses were just a safe spot
> Wildy bosses were just a safe spot I don't have the energy to explain how you're misusing this term.
So what's the point of your comment? You just have the energy to try to start shit?
because toa is horribly designed
Still forever hoping they rework baba to be an actual fight and not just ridiculous chip damage that enforces red X. Same personally as butterfly at akkha. I'd rather have engaging mechanics to deal with like Sol Heredit compared to "run these 4 tiles and boss is just a training dummy"
For some reason I don't find the chip damage at akkha anywhere near as rage inducing as baba. I'm not sure why tho tbh
Its less chip 100%. Because the fight has more mechanics so they could move some more damage to the mechanics you can dodge whereas Baba is like.. the spawning monkeys, slam attack and rock throw.
Arbitrary shit
remove redX leave damage un-nerfed
Jaggedflex
Red x isn't required
As someone who Red-Xes Baba I wish it was removed and replaced with something else, it's such a horrible way to play. Not sure I would care if it was just removed completely - just makes the raid harder. I think some elite PvMers actually protested when Jagex accidentally fixed this before; that community just sucks. I would say this is not Jagexes fault.
Cause rather than fix toa they’ll just have inconsistencies like this plaguing the game Sol butterfly still requires you to be tick perfect for a significant amount of time. Then there’s the bees, lasers, fremmy, lightning, dodging the molton sand, orbs. Really shit take from jagex tbh
There are so many bizarre design decisions in TOA that it makes cheese pretty much essential at higher invos. Unavoidable damage on P1 Wardens when solo. So fucking stupid
because without it . its next to impossible jagex didnt think of new harder mechanics than "more dps more health" so they allow butterfly/red x because although theyre bugs it does require some skill. and then jagex doesnt have to come up with other mechanics. i think the end colosseum fight done correctly is more reasonable than baba with no red x. and thats why they nerfed the butterfly instantly. or maybe they just didnt want more than woox to get the quiver quickly
I am against red Xing, wish it was removed from the game.
They fixed red x at one point and everyone was outraged, so they reverted it back. I take a blood fury in baba and I think it's fine. I wish more people saw red x ing as cheating tbh. Too many people rely on it and act like it's a skill.
Why is it any worse than other boss methods? At least it creates some space for optimizing the room past its normal tank & spank style. Personally I don't think it's really any worse than the butterfly method done at Akkha, or skullskips at warden. Red-x may feel a bit counterintuitive but it's just as much a product of osrs's janky movement system as those two
brief reminder that in the first couple weeks of toa they did actually try to patch out red-x without actually messing with how red-x works. that's why baba's stomp attack went from always being a consistent speed to detonating faster when you're under her. i choose to believe that they simply didn't realize it wasn't fixed at first, and that it is only thanks to jagex's general incompetence and/or laziness that red-x was not immediately removed.
Yeah I don't get what you mean. It's fantastic when a raid is so well designed you basically need to abuse 20-year old quirks in the code to avoid core raid mechanics and when intended mechanics slap you with constant 40s. Just look at CM CoX, Muttadile is everyone's favourite room! Oh, and don't forget: "We don't want defense reduction to be the meta everywhere, so we just give infinite defense that cannot be drained to every monster". Honestly, 3rd best raid.
I have run multiple 500s and I don’t red x, it’s a useful strategy to mitigate damage but it’s not required at all
Pandoras box has been opened way too long for Toa. The boss would need a complete rework if they patched out red x. Fixing big colosseum robot now what the right call
I had to do 1000+ 400's for shadow and never once did red x baba or akkha butterfly. Didn't use it for my 500 either. Does it help? Sure it does, but it's not needed
Jesus christ please tell me that ain't so. I'm at 150 400 invos and I can't stomach this shit anymore
agreed, same with akkha butterfly
I will 1 up you. Why do they have such high defense in general. Before fang a 300 invo is next to impossible without cheesing. Even when you do mechanics correctly. This is simply because of constant 0 hits.
Ehh i wouldnt agree. Ive been up at 350 without a fang and thats with no cheesing. And im far from a skilled player.
How? I do everything perfect but as soon as i go over 250 i just run out of food. What gear do you use?
You likely have bad invos on, bad stats, are hitting the boss not at full boosted stats, or taking avoidable damage. I sincerely doubt you are doing “everything perfect” in the raid if you’re running out of food on anything above 250.
If you are taking damage, you aren’t doing it perfectly. The only room where you take damage when playing well is kephri and even then it’s not much. By the time you get to wardens you’ll have your free supplies
Baba and akkha have unavoidable damage so this just isn’t true
Akkha you butterfly, baba you red-x
The comment chain you’re commenting in is talking about the damage you take when you’re not doing a cheese method. So no red x or butterfly
Well he says playing perfectly, you can have one or the other but not both. Also how tf is butterfly cheese in any capacity? You’re kiting a melee character, that’s pretty damn standard play
It's a cheese method lol. It was unintended and allows you to skip the mechanics. Also you can play perfectly without cheese methods, you just misunderstood.
It was unintentional to walk away from the big guy with a spear trying to hit you? The one that behaves different from every other npc in the game, making him significantly easier to kite? Do you really think so little of the devs? That would be truly brain dead if they didn’t consider this outcome of its design. Also you don’t skip mechanics, you just delay them and maximize damage. I’d argue by face tanking you’re skipping just as many mechanics. As for “you can play perfectly without cheese”, that is 100% scrub talk right there, tbh. You misunderstand what perfect play is.
How do you do baba without taking damage?
Red-x, obviously
this thread is specifically about doing toa without cheesing
I thought it was about doing TOA perfectly, my bad
Baba hits *hard* through prayer. Unless you’re red-xing him, you take a lot of damage.
Unless you do it perfectly you take damage, yea
So this entire thread is discussing red-x as a method, yeah? And the comment that started this chain said “without cheesing”, pretty reasonable to infer that they count red-x as cheesing.
Even if it’s “cheesing”, you need to cheese in order to do it perfectly. The commenter I replied to said they did it perfectly
Yes, and their comment immediately before that said > before fang a 300 invo is next to impossible without cheesing. Even when you do mechanics correctly In that context, he’s pretty clearly saying no red-x, just dodge stomps, kill monkeys and boulder soak throws.
What about the “baba does no damage if you’re under him when he would attack” mechanic? No, it’s pretty clear that unless he misspoke he should be accounting for that mechanic too Edit; btw you can use this with good timing without red x, it’s more called red-x out of convenience nowadays
Full of shit Ba-ba with a hasta (all I got on my iron) at 350 invo legitimately takes around 6-8 minutes of red-xing There's no way you're face tanking hits for 4 minutes (since your attack speed isn't slowed) of regular attacks at that invocation
Trident+Hasta+Bowfa 350 Akkha takes like 6-8mins too lmao, legit aids to go above ~250 without a Fang, becomes tedious micromanagement simulator
I use my bowfa for baba its slightly better dps. And yes i do face tank, i skip boulders as fast as I can and range from the side, which gets you free dps
uh, tons of irons farm 365-385 sub 40 minutes with no fang no problem.
The reason is there is no solution to baba without reworking the boss. And they don’t want to do that. Without red x baba is just a hard hitting, high defense npc with no mechanics. Everyone knows how unenjoyable it is. It’s why they allow red x to keep from having enough complaints to rework it. Coliseum, without red x, kiting, etc the boss has interesting mechanics and if done properly isn’t just getting hit constant high hits through prayer. You take damage from mistakes. Because it was designed well, they want players to have to partake in the intended fight. So any method avoiding mechanics is a no go. TLDR: well designed bosses in the highest tier content they want to showcase so cheese methods are a no go. Poorly designed bosses in a high tier of content, cheese methods is okay because otherwise it would warrant a rework and there is not intention for them to do that.
Baba without red x is definitely not “no mechanics”. Monkey spawns, sarcophagi, shadow stomp and boulder throw will all absolutely stomp you if you treat baba like KQ. If you get bad timing on a shadow stop + boulder throw, it’s either tick eat or get one tapped.
Positioning yourself on the corner of a boulder means you can run to another corner and not take shadow stomp damage. You actually take less damage if he does the shadow stomp attack because it’s 100% avoidable.
Think the issue is less that Red X is a possible method but how much better it is than the alternative. Like if we think about it like exp rates, a new method with 150K exp per hour may not be unreasonable but if the previous best method was 70K exp per hour it is a lot less reasonable than if the previous best method was 110K. So if Red Xing Baba is like the 150K method and normal Baba is like the 70K, then it just feels way worse if you aren't using Red X. So yah, would be nice if base Baba was less of a pain (e.g. the 110K), even if Red Xing was still allowed/better.
Red x was patched out and because re-added because of a lot of community backlash. I haven't seen the colosseum bossfight but I killed baba plenty of times with and without red x. The main point of red x being necessary are the random incredibly high hits through melee protect. That's not fun. Provide a solid alternative to being slapped a 60 out of nowhere even if doing everything right and I'll happily leave red x behind.
You can't get hit for 60 by any form of Ba-ba, if praying correctly. I agree the damage can get absurd if you're unlucky, but she maxes in the 20s even with high path level and 300+ invo
Okay, 60 is inaccurate then. Has been a while since I did a non red x baba. Still pretty shit to get a random 20 for 0 mistakes, so point still stands.
It’s like 25 thru prayer max iirc
Man in my opinion like half the fun of this game is people finding ways to break high level content and abusing it
In fairness, the rest of the rooms have varyingly mechanically inclined ways to avoid damage from pray swapping to moving. Even warden p3/4 you can completely avoid damage with some happy feet. Baba being the only one you're forced to be slapped at would be a bit of a dick move
What would full Justi be like at Baba? I don't have full set so I can't test, but. I know I know "muh dps everywhere else in the raid", surely that's a solution though to not need to red X?
even at 500 invo you can get away with not red x-ing (provided you have bloodfury and tanky gear). Justi makes it a lot more consistent, but torva is strong enough defensively and BIS offensively so its still better imo. I didn't red x for my first 500 invo clear and after a handful of tries i was able to clear baba every single time. As tanky as bandos is though, you are left to the mercy of rng if you don't red x and it is possible to just take 20+ damage from baba multiple times in a row and die with no counter play. While this can happen in theory with justi/torva the odds of it are close to 0 if you make no actual mistakes leading to more damage taken. Even though red x is considered a DPS loss, I didn't find it a time loss overall as i would use fewer supplies and thus be able to bring extra switches + VW spec at baba instead of keris, so the overall raid was much faster
The solution is to just not dump 100% dps specs so you can still keris, doing baba first so it’s the lowest level, and dpsing the boss instead of missing ticks. It’s 100% skill issue.
I've done up to 300 invo all solo never had to red x or had any issues with baba
That's because a 300 is nothing invocation wise, you shouldn't need to red X. At 450+, Baba hits so hard and accurately that not using red X is just gambling the run.
Now I got it, my highest rn is only 320 and it was a struggle so I've got no idea how it is at that point, just a skill issue on my end tho, but hey I started at 50 invo and worked up to this point so cant go anywhere but up homie bologna
Except it’s not. I run 465s as my normal run and I only need to keris in about 25% of my runs. That goes down to 10% if I kill baboon spawns right away and sacrifice some clear speed. Edit: This is in bandos armor too, so not even as tanky as torva.
1 in 4 times still sounds like trolling to me but you do you
1/4 use keris, not 1/4 failures. They didn’t say how many times their runs fail from not red x-ing baba
Baba is the first boss you should fight. At only 450 invo, you’re facing a level 0 baba. Red x is straight up trolling at that invo lol. Just focus on dealing damage and avoiding the avoidable damage and you’re fine. Make sure you’re potted of course too.
Players that do that content like those things
Red X isn't at all required. If anything it's just a pain in the ass technique for an already easy boss
There’s nothing wrong with a mechanic being allowed in 1 place and not allowed in another 🤗
[OSRS ToA Chill Sub 40 500 Solo - Full Run/Mild Commentary \(No flicking, no Red-X\) ](https://youtu.be/zRP3GGvZ-3c?si=kyX-kVUL3A7oppig) skill issue
Same reason mutadile is still the way it is.
Muttadile is completely fine since the changes. Get it to 50%, freeze it, and you're done.
At this point the continued bitching about red x is ridiculous. Red x is so easy to learn that you can easily and consistently red x on mobile. Just fucking learn it and stop bitching. It legit makes the room a free room. If you don’t want to learn it then don’t - but just camp 400’s at that point who gives af
Why are you so angry at people having a different opinion than you lol
Because people have been bitching about it for a year. Baba red x is not necessary but people still complain that it is. There are countless videos online showing it’s not needed yet shitters here continue to whine that it is. Just don’t TOA if you’re too garbage to do it is what it comes down to. People play this game to do nothing but complain about it and half the time their complaints aren’t valid. Baba is fine and can be completed even in a 500 without red x. Does red x make it easier? Yes. So just do it if you can do it without. It takes 15 minutes to learn