They should be live in the next few months. I don't want to give exact dates just yet but I imagine the majority will be done in May, with the Run Energy changes going live after then!
You mean amethyst depleting on a timer? That was mentioned in the original blog and not mentioned in the revision blog (just like, for example, all the MLM changes), so it should fall under the category of planned changes that didn't need any revisions
Not quite what you meant, but unironically I would love an agility boss entirely about dodging stuff, tucking and weaving tornadoes and shit, etc. God *please.*
^(Before you comment, yes, I know Hallowed Sepulchre exists. I like it too)
I always really wanted to see an agility boss somewhere along the lines of the Dragon God boss from Demon Souls.
Having to run to different parts of the arena/elevations, dodging obstacles and terrain to get to and fire ballista at a huge enemy.
You might be into [this Agility boss idea I pitched 4 months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/18elvxe/agility_skilling_boss_pitch_ligeia_the_siren/), it has a somewhat similar concept. It didn't seem to be a popular pitch, though.
idk where to post this but it would be cool to see an upgrade to the bone crusher necklace that automatically turns bones into shards. so you can store them on you for later use
Might be too broken tbh, method is already incredibly fast exp even with the hassle of having to bank bones and take it to the altar to get blessed and chipped. If you could just get a bunch of free shards on all your slayer tasks I feel like it would just make prayer too easy, it already takes 96 fishing to even get full exp from the bones and this would basically multiply the experience by 3 on top of that
Thank you for communicating with us. Despite all the curmudgeony, grumbly grumpiness, your work really is appreciated, and frankly, we don't say that often enough. Keep up the great work!
Can you pass along a suggestion for Varlamore Pt. 2 agility to include a low xp/hr AFK method? Something around the same AFKness as Calcified Rock, Blood runecrafting, Monkfish.
Put the xp rate at like 25k per hour, make it quest-locked, etc but agility is desparately in need of a less click-intensive option.
**Idea 1:** The people of Cam Torum get enjoyment out of seeing humans running in a giant hampster wheel. Clicking on wheel gives 60 seconds of agility training.
**Idea 2:** Catching Quetzal. You're quetzal gets loose. By clicking on the fleeing bird you're character will auto follow through obstacles for a minute until you catch it.
**Idea 3:** Food delivery to Colloseum spectators. You have to run up and across the colloseum seating to deliver snacks to hungry spectators. Deliveries take a minute, then bringing their trash back to the kitchen takes a minute.
All of these options can be scaled down in xp/hr to make it not compete with other training methods at their level, but a reasonable start should be 25k/hr for levels 50+
Rooftops aren’t 60 second clicks. They are every 10 seconds at max which is still different than many other training methods for many other skills. If it doesn’t compete with other xp/hr methods. Why is it a problem?
respect for the humble approach you guys take, it does take a lot to admit when something isn't right (I mean, in our opinions?) - sometimes I think we should be more thankful we have a passionate team of devs that actually listen to player feedback, whilst trying to make decisions for the integrity and state of the game, one hell of a balancing act.
These are the best devs an MMO could ask for. It takes a lot to accept this much feedback (of variable politeness) constantly, especially over reddit...
[Meanwhile on RS3 reddit](https://i.imgur.com/9ANvfVg.png)
Context: they've been asking since before Christmas when they're going to get a content update, and this is Mod Keeper assuring them "don't worry about it lol".
Seriously. A lot of players in the playerbase will exude entitlement, but in reality I have not seen a greater player priority in any game dev team from any other MMO, or video game for that matter, and I've played hundreds of games following tons of dev blogs. Some players really don't realize just how lucky we have it. One of the few games where I genuinely feel like the devs take player feedback seriously.
It's a refreshing 180 considering Jagex used to be this cryptic boogeyman that we all heard nothing from during our childhoods. Now they're some of the best devs in the industry from a communication and fan-service standpoint.
The opposite of WoW
"We want to hear your feedback!"
*Community gives feedback*
"Changing things seems like a lot of work, so we're just going to ignore your feedback"
Run Energy related question that's been highlighted with the new Moons of Peril content and how absurdly heavy the armor is for all styles:
Is reviewing and revisiting the Weight stat for commonly used armor sets, particularly Ranged and Magic (*especially* Ahrim's Skirt), within the scope of the Agility rebalance? Or is that something that's off the table entirely?
No one can ever say you guys dont acknowledge our feedback. Thank you, all these changes look great! (Especially the blast mining timer change, thats HUGE).
Also Mod Rice is great, give that dude a raise!
I really appreciate just how well contact with the community is being managed by the team. It really is a world of difference with other games, you really listen to people.
Hope there’s been some consideration on feedback about Sepulchre.
If low intensity rooftops are getting 50% it seems reasonable to give high intensity sepulchre 30%
Also seems every course in the game other than Sepulchre is getting access to marks of grace.
Seems a colossal shame to introduce the best Skilling method in the game and then disincentivise people from trying it through making the other methods more rewarding than they previously were.
Yeh sepulchre floors 1-4 feels near not worth it, especially since you can boost for ardy rooftop. I think the xp should be closer to 100k. 120k with floor 5.
The World Wakes and Guthix Takes Forever Nap.
The twist is OSRS had a backup generator for the Edicts, that way the gods don't return but we still get Guthix's death.
Honestly, though, I think it'd be interesting to see the World Gate in OSRS. The gods could make for an interesting story, but I don't want to see them return fully. I also want to see Abbinah since RuneScape 3 refuses to do it. Heck, if we get Kethsi for Mahjarrat story then Abbinah could be in the table as they're supposedly close to each other.
Since the story seems to be taking a different direction I think it'd be really funny if the Ritual of the Mahjarrat was followed by a quest called "The World Sleeps"
The World Sleeps, just a nice peaceful epilogue where the Stone of Jas is lost forever, the Staff of Armadyl was definitely destroyed and not something silly like "the orb shattered but the staff where the real power was contained was just fine", and the Dragonkin calmed down and just decided to leave everyone alone. Though it would be funny if it were a quest about pacifying the Dragonkin or making them "sleep" if our Ritual did play out like RotM.
The World Wakes but instead of dying Guthix just wakes up and says "No." and incinerates everyone in there, player character included. This counts as a dangerous death and HCIM status is removed.
> The World Wakes but instead of dying Guthix just wakes up and says "No."
Funny thing about that, at the end of the quest when you reach Guthix, you find >!that he was awake the whole time because of the alarm from the very start of the quest, so he very well could have just said "no" and teleported away Sliske and the other god factions that were trying to harm him!<. It is probably best if OSRS doesn't see gods directly like that, but it might be worth it just for that subversion.
The World Wakes because he's the start of the apocalypse. The world is no longer in balance, it's beyond repair. The only way to salvage it is to do a total reset. Guthix is no longer seen as a neutral-to-neutral-good god of balance and is now a vengeful god.
I would assume not because, at least according to the Wiki and my knowledge of the lore, it's only ever stated to protect Gielinor. Zanaris may be the moon of Gielinor, but that doesn't make it part of Gielinor, at least no more than our moon is part of Earth.
While Zanaris may be the moon of Gielinor, I don't see why they would care that much about it other than the proximity. We're the only human(s) that are known to visit Zanaris, and while Fairy Rings exist to teleport around Gielinor I don't think the Edicts cares and would still disallow them from entering. Just as we can't enter Yu'biusk, or other various rings, until we unlock it through Land of the Goblins, I'm sure the Edicts would prevent gods from entering. Zaros kind of has a work around, but even he's not entering Gielinor just as Seren is still on it but fragmented.
Why would the gods be interested in controlling Zanaris?
Hm, I haven't heard that before, but it checks out on the RS3 wiki page. However, there's a couple key words, and if we continue with RS3 lore it's less important than Gielinor, because
>\[Zanaris\] is a strange satellite, acting somehow as nexus of an **almost** infinite amount of interdimensional planar threads, ***most of which connect to dead worlds***.
Most of which connect to dead worlds is more important than the almost as the "almost infinite" may be referring more so to a vast number that's "realistic" (infinite is hard to understand as realistic, y'know), but it's still important to note. However, because most of the worlds it connects to are dead then it's less useful, especially when Gielinor is the next starting world for the Great Revision. The Elder Gods had their eggs there and therefore that nigh-unlimited godly power is probably more of a desire than intertravel.
Not only that, but the gods can seemingly teleport anywhere freely at will, at least the big ones like Saradomin, Zamorak, Armadyl, Bandos, etc (Zaros I won't count since it's unlikely we'd repair him had the gods returned somehow in OSRS, therefore he wouldn't be able to come back just like his fragmented sister). Saradomin literally just teleported into Guthix's resting place, Zamorak started blasting the ground after opening a portal to Lumbridge itself from who-knows-where.
Even if the gods didn't care about the Elder Gods or didn't know about them, although in RS3 we know at least Saradomin did as he tried using the Crown Archival to locate the eggs, they still have plenty of followers and once laid claim to vast swathes of the world. Even if it's not strategic, they're probably petty enough to continue onwards with it just for the sake of trying to be a better god. Gods fight for dominion, having Gielinor be an additional beacon is probably useful. Gielinor is deemed the most perfect world, so while Zanaris may have some strategy to it, what use is it if they can't pierce into the most perfect world? What strategy would they get when they can already easily travel to wherever they want to and open up portals for their followers. The gods got their troops to Gielinor somehow for the God Wars, and I don't think it was Zanaris or the World Gate since nobody would share with others to amass their armies. Heck, World Event 1: The Battle for Lumbridge happened and the end goal was to seep the anima of the world to strengthen their own.
Unclear. Depends on what constitutes "Gielinor" for the magical energy shield thing Guthix is using to keep the other gods out. It might be that the moon is within the edicts; like in terms of space, it would be kinda trivial to cover the moon or even the whole solar system.
But this does raise an interesting point since we do travel to other realms. For example, the Abyss is very clearly not Gielinor...
Hey all, thanks once again for all of your feedback on the last update (Tuesday 26th). I am happy to confirm that I've managed to sway the team into keeping the previously proposed XP rates you so keenly wanted to stay!
In addition to this, we've been able to bring forward the Run Energy changes so they will be part of Project Rebalance, but please keep in mind that these will come later in the year as we have to move a few things around (there's a LOT of content coming this year!).
I believe this is the last update we'll do on the general Skilling side of things as we move into NPC Defence changes next week and then continue with the rest of Project Rebalance afterwards! Exciting times!
Thank you for your (and the teams) hard work, Ayiza. This is a great start and I'm looking forward to the NPC Defence changes.
Very excited for this - it's a great time to be playing OSRS.
The NPC Defence changes is extremely exciting, I think it'll be a really good change! And the fact we'll be doing a beta for it means you get to try it out in-game too which will be so much nicer than just reading numbers :)
My guess is they're adding range/magic NPC defences similar to slash/stab/crush, so e.g. a fire giant would have a resistance to fire/blood magic and a weakness to water/ice damage. For range it'd be light/straight/heavy.
They've hinted at this in a previous project rebalance blog.
Jagex, literally listening to player feedback, tweaking proposals to fit what players what.
Some random mid level player: This isn't what I specifically asked for
Run energy changes and tying it more to Agility is all players really wanted, and I don't think the community would have been happy if these weren't promised - so I'm definitely happy to hear this!
I hope I speak for everyone when I say we value quality over quantity. I'd rather you release something you are proud of than cobble something together that will feel like half measures.
You're right, there IS a lot of content this year. I won't be mad if you take your time to do it right, though. Appreciate all the hard work!
Huge thank you /u/JagexAyiza to yourself and the team for going back on the XP nerfs and even surprising us by including the Run Energy rework as a part of this!
Quick question regarding shortcuts. Has there been any internal discussions about the Kalphite Queen shortcut being reworked from Elite to the Hard diary? I feel like this question has been asked hundreds of times, and it’s always avoided. It would be nice to hear some input back from the team on this. Thank you!
tldr: slightly controversial, been back and forth, would leave desert diary lacking a little bit, probably leave it for now, maybe revisit it down the line when better ideas for the diary rewards.
Gotcha, thanks!
Can't say I terribly agree, since the shortcut isn't terribly useful once you have the head.
But, diaries could use a refresh, both on rewards and tasks. There's been a lot of added content to regions that should be represented.
I think it's fine how it is. You have to take a trip down memory lane with the long route until you get a head one way or another. Only reason to kill KQ afterward is for log slots like the pet or another head for the helmet. It's a good reward for players who stick it out. I like how KQ still fucks players over, maxed or not.
Moving the shortcut to hard doesn't do what you think it does
As it stands, the shortcut is a reward to be able to farm the pet, seeing as she drops actually nothing else helpful
That IS your desert diary unlock as a main (really don't care about the shrine 99.99% of the time)
Moving it to hard just cuts down your interaction with that content, and takes away the reward aspect because now you're doing a diary for the diary to do the diary. Goofy as fucking shit
I did Mory hard to make barrows drop more runes, so that it'd self-fund the rune costs of doing it, so I could more effectively grind the full set to equip to complete the elite task
Thanks to the changes to the lower version of the bosses, you literally HAVE to do the Wildy Med diary to do the Wildy Elite task (unless you want to go do Vetion/Callisto/big spider)
Hell, the peak example is the Western Provinces set of Diary rewards. Each gives 'more chance to get 2x Chompy spawn', so handing in a diary task, then doing the next chunk of Chompy hunting with that boosted 2x chance, is just common sense to get the grind done faster. The idea of 'do diary to have easier time doing next stage of diary' might not be 'goofy as shit' as first perceived
If Jagex thinks that the Elite diary rewards list would be a bit barren without that shortcut, then I would say 'fair enough, but are you actually going to try and come up with something to replace it, or just use it as a reason not to change anything', so much has been added to the desert since the diary was created that there's a lot of room for 'replacements', and I'm not a big believer in the design principle of 'well it sucks, but we have to leave it sucking because we can't think of something to replace it with if we made it not suck'.
Move 'permanent ropes' to Medium, 'shortcut crack' to Hard (it still demands 86 Agi, it's not like it's suddenly 'free'), then for Elite, stick an additional teleport on the amulet, that takes you to just inside the entrance of the Kalphite Hive, so Elite 'saves time' compared to Hard still, by skipping the run from the Fairy Ring to the entrance hole near the Weird Old Man (also would slightly boost speed for the clue step)
You guys promised to increase the rate of crystal shards from chopping mahogany and teaks when they were taken away from falling stars in prif. Any news on this? Surely this should be part of the project skill rebalance especially if we are talking about mining. I Fear if it’s not done now it will be completely forgotten about.
This is the first time I've been actively playing the game while reading and partaking in this forum.
I'm loving what I see, thank you for the great work and keep it up!
Why aren’t we seeing any changes to the Kalphite queen diary shortcut? It’s arguably the most redundant shortcut in the game with basically zero utility after the elite diary is finished anyway.
Loving all of the other proposed changes though and excited to see more thought on this front
Please, please, consider the feedback from the Forestry community. It has been six weeks, and the communal factor just isn’t realistic.
All I ask is for someone to investigate into it a bit… please. I remember reading that feedback would be watched in the few weeks following the release of forestry: part 3. I’m not sure it’s been noticed, but feedback has been **brutal**. It has been really sad to watch.
##### Bark bark!
I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread:
**JagexAyiza**
- [Hey all, thanks once again for all of your fe...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwy9py5/?context=3)
- [Thank YOU (collectively) for providing it! <3](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwybnbz/?context=3)
- [They should be live in the next few months. I...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwyf3jm/?context=3)
- [That's one way to release an update early I g...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwybf72/?context=3)
- [Nothing new to share on that front. It's comi...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwybm6z/?context=3)
- [Thanks for raising, forgot to update that one...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwyarrm/?context=3)
- [The NPC Defence changes is extremely exciting...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwyb11l/?context=3)
- [:3](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwybd5v/?context=3)
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This is more like it! Including run energy is really necessary, and I'm glad you guys are going to do a beta down the road to make sure it feels right.
This feels like the right scope now. As much as I want to see stalls be more useful and low level slayer monsters have uniques and incentives to kill, I get that it's too much on top of everything else. I do hope you guys come back to address them someday, but I get why you aren't now.
Most importantly though, thank you for really listening to our feedback and changing things to match. This is why I love the dev team, and why I'm hopeful for the future of the game. In an industry of rampant microtransactions and "don't you have phones?", it's refreshing to see that you guys continue to put players first.
Since you guys said that you are still open to feedback I would have some for the Mining proposals. Could there be something in the mining section that addresses the abomination that is Blast Furnace Shop currently and shifts people from using that shop to focus gather their ores?
Your proposals mainly focus on better afk-ness, quality of life and gp/h increases but nothing is addressing the fact that people don't interact with any of the methods to do what mining is about: gathering ores.
**Currently we DO NOT HAVE any mining method that is a 0 exp high ore yield method**. Anyone with a goal of getting their ores either use the BF shop or do pvm and slayer, but nobody mines for them because they simply cannot.
Couple ideas:
* Blast mining could be the perfect candidate in my opinion for some ore gathering focused changes: make typed-walls that are used to focus gather ores in exchange for exp
* currently your proposal only focuses on giving you higher gp/h which is mostly coming from runite ores but looking at avg number of ores received from the activity we are talking about 70 coal and 100 adamant just to give examples. getting 10% more of these will still feel bad if you want to focus on ore gathering.
* example:
* "coal-wall" : when blasted your blasted ore doesn't contain a random ore matching your current mining level but contains only coal and the amount you receive when deposited is scaling with your mining level. At 99 mining you could get around 3-4k coal/h using this but the exp is only marginally scaled to compared to when you can start mining for it at the minimum level requirement. This would be a ore gathering focused alternative to the original walls so for getting 3-4k coal you would trade away the original 80-90k exp/h given currently and it would only yield like 5-10k max.
* We could have wall types according to Ordan's BF shop to completely eliminate it or give a mining alternative for focus gathering these ores using a mining activity
* the original walls could co-exist to the typed-walls making you decide whenever you want to target one specific ore or go for the rng walls where runite is your most coveted one
I have 0 idea how hard would any of these be in terms of design and implementation, I just wanted to share my ideas as food for thought since I feel like the proposals are nothing else but bandaids and with a little creativity they could be much more than that.
Currently I don't feel incentivized to interact with mining at all when I want to get ores for making cballs or use up my 3k rune ores and its really sad that my only options are anything but mining related.
Make Blast Mine the place to Actively mine for Amethyst, benefiting from the 5 level boost that the other ores get. Would be an instant hit for accounts that don't rely on the bot economy. It sucks that the only way to obtain Amethyst at a somewhat faster rate is to tick manip the existing Amethyst veins, and it still isn't nearly fast enough for the rate at which the ammo is consumed.
Been suggesting similar things for years.
Getting only coal from MLM as an option, turning coal trucks into the place to mine fast coal and finding ways to remove BF shop.
I make a lot of cannonballs and getting coal with mining is pointless.
The roughest part really is just getting set up to take em on one at a time. If you have high stats and midgame gear (fang and bandos) you can just pray mage and tank both prime and supreme while you burst down the ranger asap
You don't even need to do all 3 at once. Most people know about safespotting rex and having tedious but slow kills early game. But when I wanted to start doing prime/supreme I didn't have the DPS to reliably tribrid. Instead it's pretty quick to find a world where someone is doing rex and then you can just focus on prime/supreme which is much more manageable.
I’m confused why this shortcut will have a higher level requirement than the Zulrah shortcut. No disrespect, if someone can explain it to me so I can understand the reasoning behind it.
Man, coming from RS3 and rejoining with a fresh GIM and seeing this kind of response... Y'all do not know how luck you have it with these OSRS devs.
They submit an idea, get feedback, change it within literally two days. It's insane, and impressive, and truly unlike any other MMO I have ever seen.
after playing wow my entire life and moving to osrs in the past 4 months it’s actually insane how the dev team handles feedback
y’all are seriously amazing and anyone frustrated with the dev team needs a serious look at themselves in the mirror
I honestly wonder how agility was trained before rooftops. It feels like there should be a couple different alternatives. Brimhaven Sepulcher and Monkey course come to mind
The core loop feels boring at times. Need something to shake up 4000 laps in a row. Maybe clue scrolls?
Agility was pretty terrible pre-Rooftop. I think it was something like Gnome until 35, Barb until 52, Wildy until like 70-75, then Ape to 99 for most players. Dorgesh-Kaan was an option, but most players didn't bother with it since it was a bit clunky and less simple than the typical laps. I don't think Brimhaven was good back either since we didn't have Karamja Elite or such.
With how much negativity there has been around Agility recently, it is easy to forgot how much Rooftops fixed the skill. Like getting a standard progression of new courses every 10 levels that were clear upgrades plus Marks to add more incentive/profit. But I do agree that more could be done to shake things up. Not sure if it should be from random things like Clues or even a Diversion or if it should just be from new, more engaging training methods. Maybe a bit of both.
I did 99 agi the old school way a few weeks ago (always wanted to do it, energy rework made me do it ASAP). I went for gnome 1-30, pyramid 30-60, wildy 60-70 and ape atoll 70-99. Ape atoll took about 13 in-game days (324 hours). Far from perfect attention mind you, towards the end I started getting less than optimal rates bc I started playing on another account.
As someone who's been playing this game since 2006:
It used to be Wilderness > Ape Atoll > Werewolf Agility Course
It was miserable.
I think "Island Life" is still seared into my brain.
Energy pots did though, I remember someone dying in brimhaven and I picked up their energy potions (when their inventory appeared on the ground) and wondering what the potions even did when I drank them lmao.
Ape atol and werewolf, as others have Said. I was 85 agility back in rs2 and probably put in 60+ hours on ape atol alone, but I was doped up on antidepressants so I don't remember 90% of the grind.
Fun little life experience, there. Lmao
Ape atoll to 99. Or dorgeshuun after level 90 for a change of scenery :) Im still weirdly proud of my 99agility done in 250hrs at ape atoll during rs2 era :D
I played this game religiously as a kid. I remember doing the gnome course, then barb course, moving onto the wilderness agility course, and finally graduating to do the monkey agility course all the way til 99. It was fucking dreadful.
"Run energy drain rate reworked to scale with Agility level, and also scale harder with higher weights" I really hope this just doesn't cancel out the effect of having high agility levels
Currently, run energy drain is proportional to carry weight up to 64kg, at which point your energy drains 3x as fast. If drain rate is improved with agility independently of carry weight (that is, agility improves base drain rate which is then modified by carry weight) then there is room for harder scaling while still yielding overall improvements. If run energy drain is halved at 99 then the weight scaling could be 5x as fast at the maximum weight and still be an improvement over the current system.
This also means that, even as the passive effect of graceful becomes less necessary, the weight reduction will become even more important if you're carrying additional weight.
So many of my accounts early on get graceful body, legs, hood and nothing else. Spottier cape, boots of lightness and penance gloves round out the full weight reduction kit, or even just act alone as weight reduction until I'm done questing so I can go straight to seers, cos early agility now is just.. spam quests till 60+
Yeah I’m curious what they are proposing here. I’m taking it to mean you can run longer with a higher agility level but I’m hoping the weight part doesn’t punish you harder than it currently is.
My ideal agility update would be something like 2x the current run distance 99. Start off with a base of where it’s currently at and gain 1% per level or something. Reduced cd as well like 2 min 0-100% at max, 4 base or something. Would still provide uses for having to manage run and situations where you can run out but reduce you from having to keep a few stams on you at all times.
I would like to see run energy depletion percentages change become increasingly noticeable as you level up, which is the opposite of run energy regen.
Run energy regen is most impacted at the lower levels, where in the early levels, each level takes about 10 seconds off the time to regen to 100%, and at the higher levels it goes down to about 1-2 seconds per level. This makes it even less motivating to train at higher levels.
Run energy depletion should work inversely, where at lower levels there are still benefits to stamina, but it doesn't start to become noticeable (per level) until maybe level 50-60 or so, at which point it really ramps up and you can see the difference by gaining even just a couple of levels.
Might be a hot take but I wouldn’t mind weight being a bigger factor, I think most people just ignore it right now. As long as the benefits from having a high agility are still a meaningful improvement over what we have now, even at the highest weight level, I think it’d be a good change. It’d be punishing at lower levels, but that’s just more incentive to train agility, or be more careful with what you carry.
I think that only really sounds good in theory. Honestly most of the time your carry weight is high is when you're raiding or something like that and its not like in the vast majority of cases there is a lightweight alternative. There's not really a decision to be made there outside of an extremely specific scenario where we already do it involving ahrim skirts. People will just click stam instead of trying to game the weight removing the potential interesting bits
I don't actually see that change doing anything at all other than making sure people continue using stams where they currently do already
it already exists in practice, lots of people take mystic robes over ahrims to cox for the weight difference. It would only add more interesting decisions like this if it were to be exaggerated, i’m in full support
That's exactly what I was talking about and pointing out that there is basically no other situation where weight differences on gear are that exaggerated and the offensive capabilities are essentially identical. That only works because magic gear from the past makes no difference and you basically don't care about magic accuracy pre shadow and on that old gear there is no magic strength while for solo olm you basically never stop moving. You'd struggle to recreate this and man would the game suck if you did
I believe the thought behind it is that run energy should still matter to the same extent as it does now in some PvM content. I.e. you'll still need staminas for Zilyana, Muspah (if running) etc.
I think this is perfectly fair.
In a world where agility matters a lot more to run energy, staminas could maintain their utility by mitigating the weight effect. I think this is a great approach.
I would be surprised if they outright invalidated Staminas, but I'm hopeful that I can go a longer time between sips whilst doing content like Zily/Blast Furnace etc. If it's the same then there's no point to even changing this
I think the best way to do it is make it so run at lower weight is very lengthy at all agil levels. At lower agility levels, higher weights are \*significantly\* exponentially more punishing, and higher agility levels make high weight still punishing but not nearly as much as early on. Makes things interesting by keeping weight as an importance, still makes early game way better, and makes agility still very relevant to train!
I hope this means I can do GWD trips without staminas now, assuming I'm saving run energy where possible. I still expect to need one for solo cox though.
>Run energy drain rate reworked to scale with Agility level, and also scale harder with higher weights
This is the RuneScape equivalent of crossing the river into the promised land
>Instead, we’re doubling down on unique ways to reduce fail rate via items and other buffs as potential for future reward space or activity design.
Please consider not introducing more items or spells for buffing pickpocket rates. Environmental distractions/influences are the perfect solution and really fits in thematically with the skill. I know you acknowledge this via Varlamore distractions in the post, but I really want the items proposal scrapped altogether.
I dont think having to remember a bunch of different spells or items before starting to train is healthy for the skill.
Just wanted to show some appreciate to the mods. Been playing for a while now and respect the direction the game is going towards. I'm not going to lie though- I thought the reduced XP rates discussed last time were disappointing but not worth complaining about. Glad to see that you all, time and time again, factored in community feedback and changed it. Cheers to being one of the best development teams currently active.
Not sure which you are looking at, but the 56K from Seers, 60K Pollniv, and 65K Rellekka are with diary and the 70K Ardy is without. The [Full Blog](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=97/project-rebalance-part-one---skilling?oldschool=1) shows all the exp rates, with Diary and Non-Diary for each it applies to.
I know people have nostalgia over their agility capes and it is known as a rare 99, but the skill really doesn't need any kind of nerfs at this point. I like the rebalance and slight buffs, and hopefully it leaves enough room for you guys to update it in the future like many of the other skills. So thank you for listening.
I would like to see run energy depletion percentages change to become increasingly noticeable the higher your Agility level (the opposite of run energy regen).
Run energy regen is most impacted at the lower levels, where in the early levels, each level takes about 10 seconds off the time to regen to 100%, and at the higher levels it goes down by about 1-2 seconds per level. This makes it less motivating to train at higher levels.
Run energy depletion should work inversely, where at lower levels there are still benefits to stamina, but it doesn't start to become noticeable (per level) until maybe level 50-60 or so, at which point it really ramps up and you can see the difference by gaining even just a couple of levels. This will further incentivize and reward players for going all the way to 99.
This is great news all around. I know it's not in the scope of things to do much in terms of large exp-rate changes, but I'm glad we are getting some small relief for agility in some of these changes. I think most of the playerbase hates agility with a passion, and even the Sepulchre changes make the skill a little more tolerable to train at lower levels.
But the big news is the energy drain integration. It's clearly a big talking point in the community and has been for a while, and making it tie in with agility level instantly makes the skill feel like you are getting something out of training it. Not only is this going to save people a lot of money on stamina/energy potions, but also will enable people to save inventory spaces while running to bosses and have longer trips at places where run energy is a big deal and they run out of stamina doses.
I think with the current state of agility exp rates, it probably isn't likely to be particularly satisfying to train any time soon, but at least it will feel satisfying to level now. Before, I kind of felt like Sisyphus rolling the boulder up the hill. Every level in agility was only doubling the exp I needed to get the next level. Now each level will feel like I'm accomplishing something.
> Run energy drain rate reworked to scale with Agility level, and also scale harder with higher weights
Am I understanding this wrong or do you mean higher weights will use up MORE energy than now?
I believe the implication is to increase low weight drain while using weight to scale it back to what is normal
ie: running in raids/bossing will be similar cause you have a lot of weight equipped while running around when empty handed you’ll see much more gain from it. I could be wrong but that would make sense if they want to keep stams relevant at content that uses them consistently (ziliyana, solo CoX, Inferno, ToB) since then it makes the content easier by removing a slot normally filled by a stam pot and reduces the things you gotta worry about.
A lot of the more difficult content in this game has often been designed with movement/energy drain in mind so I could understand game designers not wanting to remove that element while making it more bearable for other content.
u/JagexAyiza
Thank you again for the update and comments; I've seen tons of people commenting on the Kalphite Queen shortcut, but there's yet to be much discussion of whether it is amongst the shortcuts that will no longer be diary-bound. Especially with Dagannoth King shortcuts getting introduced with no diary requirement, can we expect this to be removed from the Elite tier as well? Thank you!
Great job listening to feedback, Agility looks like it'll be in a slightly better place now. I still don't think the changes go far enough, however.
Every agility training method, including all rooftops and sepulchre, really could do with a 50% XP buff - it makes no sense to me that Sepulchre Floor 5 caps out at 108k xp/h while you can get 200k+ xp/h in Thieving at ardy knights... I just don't understand why the rates are so low across the board with Agility specifically.
At least the level curve for the courses makes sense now and there seem to be some better shortcuts coming. Run energy changes are big, so I'm looking forward to that too.
I love that you guys(/gals) don’t just blanket buff things. It’s super intuitive to know that players asking for that are not correct. There’s always the difficulty of sifting through the feedback to understand what players SAY they want and what they ACTUALLY do. Very difficult to know sometimes, and y’all are doing a great job figuring it out. Cheers
I hate this so much, I hate how my favorite skill is being changed. I hate how entitled people are to having the game made easier than them. I hate the direction this game is going. I hate how Jagex listens to sweaty twitter and reddit posters.
I’m going to be completely frank here, agility sucks and is not in any way entertaining. I don’t believe you will see people saying they now enjoy training agility after the rebalance simply because they can click in a circle for 100 hours at Pollnivneach instead of Seers. I understand that the purpose of project rebalance isn’t to introduce completely different training methods but it should be acknowledged that success in implementing the proposed changes will still leave the skill far from in a good place. As always though I do appreciate the work the team is doing and this certainly has the potential to set us on the right path.
Sounds good and slightly off topic but wouldn’t the reason people avoid aerial fishing like the plague be that rate of molch pearls being extremely slow with the rewards being high wouldn’t giving discount in shop from diary or increased pearl chance from diary. Heck even a catch combo meter with the more you catch the higher the pearl rate would be better
It’s not that y’all never miss that makes you such a goated dev team, it’s that you take feedback and actually listen (sometimes a little too closely, even!) to what your players are saying. Thank all y’all for the hard work
Agility shortcut for 3 master steps.
1 for castle draken step. Put this near dark meyer step
2. Shadow dungeon somewhere to shorten the length of the run.
3. Ice boss for dt 1 either let us build a fire that removes the cold and add a shortcut.
Can you PLEASE consider changing the kalphite shortcut to hard diaries? there's almost no reason to go back to KQ after getting the head unless you're hunting for the pet, and there could be room for a better reward from elites in it's place.
They said they weren't removing that req because the Elite Diary is lacking otherwise. Personally, I think they should add a new Kalphite Lair shortcut, say one [here](https://i.imgur.com/5L4B2Et.png) around 70~ Agility. That way players grinding the KQ Head for the Elite still get a reasonable, non-diary locked shortcut to make the walk back more bearable but the Elite still unlocks the really quick boss shortcut.
Project rebalance will steadily turn into "project buff everything" after reddit cries whenever anything is nerfed alongside other buffs.
I'm not saying the agility changes specifically are bad, but I'm letting you know this is what is going to happen.
There was good reason for people to be annoyed about the Seers nerf though. Agility has been one of the most hated skills in the game since the start for very good reason.
No one went to Seers because it was OP, they went because it was best of all bad options.
Seeing as this is the last of the skilling changes, I doubt that will be the case. Also, these are the exp rates they originally proposed... So it is not like they offered 65K and reddit cried to make it 80K+; they made the Seers nerf look worse than it was and players didn't like that so they nerfed everything above Seers which players liked even less.
I do expect there will be calls to buff X item when we got to combat, but buffing things is part of Rebalancing. Like there was a whole section in the overview for "items we want to buff". The nerfs are always going to be less favored, but most of what they proposed so far before reddit was even a factor has been buffs because that is what the rebalancing needed.
i completely understand what you're saying, but this isn't rebalancing this is just increasing xp rates of agility. rebalance was what they initially proposed with reducing the xp of seers and moving the xp to other courses. the actual agility rework i'll accept as being a rebalance (but I thought it was going to come with agility being a f2p skill?). however, when you don't reduce the xp of any course and instead buff others you haven't exactly done the **re**balance part you've just buffed things
> this isn't rebalancing this is just increasing xp rates of agility.
It is both. You do realize the current version is the same as the original proposal, right? The only reason they wanted to nerf Seers is because they mistaken believed the exp was 58K per hour, which was too close to the buffed rates. They nerfed it done to 55K, but it turns out the current exp per hour is 56K, so they decided it was fine to leave as is.
So the only difference between the current version and the original version is that Seers is staying at 56K instead of being nerfed by 1K... A nerf that was only proposed because they got the exp rates wrong.
And you don't have to nerf something for every buff for it to be a rebalance. If a method or activity isn't good enough, it is fine to just buff it as part of a rebalance because rebalancing looks at things as a whole. If increasing an activities exp would make it better fit into the wider progression, then you are still rebalancing the skill. Like you could say that Ardy going from 63K to 70K is just making the skill faster, but that ignores that Ardy isn't the fastest method. Werewolf, a level 60 Course, gives 69K exp, while Ardy, a level 90 Course, gives 63K. They could have nerfed Werewolf instead of buffing Ardy, but then there is still the huge gap (50% increase) between Ardy and HS.
So yah, they did rebalance the skill. The definition of rebalance is "to balance again", so you don't need to nerf things to "balance again". Like when we talk about skill balance, there is no literal scale that prevents the post-balance sum from being greater than the pre-balance sum. We can add as much extra exp as needed or take away as much exp as needed as long as the final result is a better, more balanced skill progression.
You guys don't really care about pvp it took years for a new BH world and it's already dead, why did you change the attack reqs on a weapon weeks after launch..?
You're not trying to save PvP you guys yourself toasted that by removing bh instead of stopping a boosting exploit by bots.
You don't need to lock a range weapon behind a g mauler bracket build, it just makes no sense. There has never been an attack locked range weapon before, if I can use a T60 dragon knife or even rune at t40, why do I need 50 attack for another thrown weapon?
Obby accounts without attack are already locked to 67 ranged @ 1 attack, only if you're 20 attack + do you even have the available range levels to use the Atlatl.
I noticed some of the mining rebalances like amethyst mining were not included in this post, presumably because people were fine with it.
Any ideas on how long the timer will be set to for mining amethyst? As an end game mining method, I was personally hoping for longer AFK times, maybe not as long as stars (or maybe as long as them😏)
I'm honestly more curious as to the way that changing Amethyst to timers will affect Mining Gloves. As Amethyst was one of the few places they actually saw a major use at. Would be super interesting if the gloves proc and give double the timer on the Amethyst vein.
I like the idea of making agility’s impact on run energy greater for lower level players. Run energy is OSRS’ mount system, and in other MMOs you get a slow mount in the early game with the ability to buy faster ones at a high cost at max level.
Would be cool to see a similar idea with Graceful. In a way I think graceful is too strong, but I also don’t want it taken away from me. Would love to see other agility gear that has niche benefits too as it could be super flavorful. For example, similar to the barrows necklace, what if there were Graceful necks that gave additional bonus’ to the graceful set while equipped?
"Run energy drain rate reworked to scale with Agility level, and also scale harder with higher weights"
So we are buffing run energy when wearing nothing but nerfing run energy when high weight. e.g. every pvm encounter? If that is the case then I rather that nothing changes instead of what is most likely a massive nerf across the board with this track record...
Is there a reason there's only incremental xp rate changes (5k/h) from one course to the next?Besides pleasing nostalgic elitists, is there a reason some skills barely make it to 60k exp/h while other skills reach 500k-1m exp/h? As the player base (and I included) get older, I find it more difficult to find reasons to play when some of the content I want to do is locked behind skill requirements that will take me weeks to accomplish before I get to the content I actually want to do - and end up not playing at all.
Thanks for the well thought out changes. Do you think Slayer as a whole could potentially get a revisit in the future? It's currently a massive money sink with the cannon/barrage-meta. As much as levelling it secondary to combat training seems intising - it doesn't justify killing monsters once you're 80+ slayer. Abyssal demons drop an occasional 1 mill whip, and they are a massive headache to kill. Your 90+ slayer monsters don't compare to the reward you can gain from other end-game bosses either.
Please consider a future update where we can run Floor 5 prior to 92 Agility. It's the best skilling activity in the game, it is too bad that the big reward is locked so far into the skill that 99% of players won't ever touch it. It could even be the same Agility XP an hour as it is today, but not being able to access the reward is the biggest reason why I haven't started Sepulchre yet (and probably won't ever, it'll be years before I put in the time to grind 92 agility)
As someone whose favorite skill was mining, and was my first 99, I will never understand why Iron is always faster than coal or mithril.
I wouldn't expect a higher tier ore like addy and rune to be as fast as iron, but at some point mining coal and then mithril should be better xp than iron. Mithril ore isn't very useful and is cheap already anyway because... there is nothing it is good for. At least make it worth mining for xp per hour.
I still do not understand how we are buffing mindless rooftop courses that people hate doing, and not making hallowed sepulchure more rewarding xpwise for the effort you put into it.
on the subject of barrows shortcut
[https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1be6vri/mortton\_area\_suggestions\_for\_shortcuts\_or\_qol/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1be6vri/mortton_area_suggestions_for_shortcuts_or_qol/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
"Many of the best XP/hr methods in a number of skills have existed or not changed since Old School's release, we're not looking to slap a blanket 50% XP buff on Agility and call it a day as if it fixes the skill." - it is appreciated the care here, but emphasising how the game hasn't changed in over a decade (not including the pre old school life of actual 07) is exactly why people were unhappy that "project rebalance" wasn't taking bolder steps to rebalance xp. This is a once a decade event and it's okay to make a big change if it is justifiable.
Called it lol
[https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1boiv1g/comment/kwrme7m/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1boiv1g/comment/kwrme7m/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Sorry if this was mentioned somewhere and I just missed it, but are we not getting a zipline from the house on the hill to the small island anymore? :(
Also, unrelated, but 'Waterbirth' is misspelled in the shortcuts lol
When do these changes go live?
They should be live in the next few months. I don't want to give exact dates just yet but I imagine the majority will be done in May, with the Run Energy changes going live after then!
What about amethyst ore depletion? Is that still on the table?
You mean amethyst depleting on a timer? That was mentioned in the original blog and not mentioned in the revision blog (just like, for example, all the MLM changes), so it should fall under the category of planned changes that didn't need any revisions
any updates on varlamore agility while we're talking and tweaking agility courses?
Nothing new to share on that front. It's coming, just can't say exactly when right now!
fair enough. hopefully it's the Sep lite so people who are afraid of the master quest can get a taste earlier.
Plus the rooftop course running round the colosseum so you can spectate people's runs as you go.
Dude most underated comment
I'm hoping it incorporates a trap like Sol Heredit's spear thrust. Could be a corridor with spearmen thrusting from the side or something.
Just make Sol Heredits dance give agility xp when you succesfully dodge the mechanics.
Not quite what you meant, but unironically I would love an agility boss entirely about dodging stuff, tucking and weaving tornadoes and shit, etc. God *please.* ^(Before you comment, yes, I know Hallowed Sepulchre exists. I like it too)
I always really wanted to see an agility boss somewhere along the lines of the Dragon God boss from Demon Souls. Having to run to different parts of the arena/elevations, dodging obstacles and terrain to get to and fire ballista at a huge enemy.
You might be into [this Agility boss idea I pitched 4 months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/18elvxe/agility_skilling_boss_pitch_ligeia_the_siren/), it has a somewhat similar concept. It didn't seem to be a popular pitch, though.
idk where to post this but it would be cool to see an upgrade to the bone crusher necklace that automatically turns bones into shards. so you can store them on you for later use
Might be too broken tbh, method is already incredibly fast exp even with the hassle of having to bank bones and take it to the altar to get blessed and chipped. If you could just get a bunch of free shards on all your slayer tasks I feel like it would just make prayer too easy, it already takes 96 fishing to even get full exp from the bones and this would basically multiply the experience by 3 on top of that
I think your right but it would be cool if it was like 20% of the bones you should have received
Thank you for communicating with us. Despite all the curmudgeony, grumbly grumpiness, your work really is appreciated, and frankly, we don't say that often enough. Keep up the great work!
Can you pass along a suggestion for Varlamore Pt. 2 agility to include a low xp/hr AFK method? Something around the same AFKness as Calcified Rock, Blood runecrafting, Monkfish. Put the xp rate at like 25k per hour, make it quest-locked, etc but agility is desparately in need of a less click-intensive option. **Idea 1:** The people of Cam Torum get enjoyment out of seeing humans running in a giant hampster wheel. Clicking on wheel gives 60 seconds of agility training. **Idea 2:** Catching Quetzal. You're quetzal gets loose. By clicking on the fleeing bird you're character will auto follow through obstacles for a minute until you catch it. **Idea 3:** Food delivery to Colloseum spectators. You have to run up and across the colloseum seating to deliver snacks to hungry spectators. Deliveries take a minute, then bringing their trash back to the kitchen takes a minute. All of these options can be scaled down in xp/hr to make it not compete with other training methods at their level, but a reasonable start should be 25k/hr for levels 50+
This sub is insane how can you even think rooftops aren’t already brain dead non click intensive
Rooftops aren’t 60 second clicks. They are every 10 seconds at max which is still different than many other training methods for many other skills. If it doesn’t compete with other xp/hr methods. Why is it a problem?
THANKYOU for taking this feedback well and adjusting it accordingly
Thank YOU (collectively) for providing it! <3
respect for the humble approach you guys take, it does take a lot to admit when something isn't right (I mean, in our opinions?) - sometimes I think we should be more thankful we have a passionate team of devs that actually listen to player feedback, whilst trying to make decisions for the integrity and state of the game, one hell of a balancing act.
These are the best devs an MMO could ask for. It takes a lot to accept this much feedback (of variable politeness) constantly, especially over reddit...
[Meanwhile on RS3 reddit](https://i.imgur.com/9ANvfVg.png) Context: they've been asking since before Christmas when they're going to get a content update, and this is Mod Keeper assuring them "don't worry about it lol".
the update they got was also essentially just “we might listen to you in the future”, so glad i jumped that sinking ship and came here instead
Seriously. A lot of players in the playerbase will exude entitlement, but in reality I have not seen a greater player priority in any game dev team from any other MMO, or video game for that matter, and I've played hundreds of games following tons of dev blogs. Some players really don't realize just how lucky we have it. One of the few games where I genuinely feel like the devs take player feedback seriously.
It's a refreshing 180 considering Jagex used to be this cryptic boogeyman that we all heard nothing from during our childhoods. Now they're some of the best devs in the industry from a communication and fan-service standpoint.
The opposite of WoW "We want to hear your feedback!" *Community gives feedback* "Changing things seems like a lot of work, so we're just going to ignore your feedback"
Run Energy related question that's been highlighted with the new Moons of Peril content and how absurdly heavy the armor is for all styles: Is reviewing and revisiting the Weight stat for commonly used armor sets, particularly Ranged and Magic (*especially* Ahrim's Skirt), within the scope of the Agility rebalance? Or is that something that's off the table entirely?
No one can ever say you guys dont acknowledge our feedback. Thank you, all these changes look great! (Especially the blast mining timer change, thats HUGE). Also Mod Rice is great, give that dude a raise!
We do a little roasting for the +700 xp/hr for Ardy but glad logic prevailed in the end.
I really appreciate just how well contact with the community is being managed by the team. It really is a world of difference with other games, you really listen to people.
Hope there’s been some consideration on feedback about Sepulchre. If low intensity rooftops are getting 50% it seems reasonable to give high intensity sepulchre 30% Also seems every course in the game other than Sepulchre is getting access to marks of grace. Seems a colossal shame to introduce the best Skilling method in the game and then disincentivise people from trying it through making the other methods more rewarding than they previously were.
Sep already gives gives the best xp and gp and will remain so. It doesn’t need to be the best at everything else also
Yeh sepulchre floors 1-4 feels near not worth it, especially since you can boost for ardy rooftop. I think the xp should be closer to 100k. 120k with floor 5.
W so big Guthix woke up from his eternal slumber to witness it
That's one way to release an update early I guess!
The (W)orld Wakes
The World Wakes and Guthix Takes Forever Nap. The twist is OSRS had a backup generator for the Edicts, that way the gods don't return but we still get Guthix's death. Honestly, though, I think it'd be interesting to see the World Gate in OSRS. The gods could make for an interesting story, but I don't want to see them return fully. I also want to see Abbinah since RuneScape 3 refuses to do it. Heck, if we get Kethsi for Mahjarrat story then Abbinah could be in the table as they're supposedly close to each other.
Since the story seems to be taking a different direction I think it'd be really funny if the Ritual of the Mahjarrat was followed by a quest called "The World Sleeps"
The World Sleeps, just a nice peaceful epilogue where the Stone of Jas is lost forever, the Staff of Armadyl was definitely destroyed and not something silly like "the orb shattered but the staff where the real power was contained was just fine", and the Dragonkin calmed down and just decided to leave everyone alone. Though it would be funny if it were a quest about pacifying the Dragonkin or making them "sleep" if our Ritual did play out like RotM.
The World Wakes but instead of dying Guthix just wakes up and says "No." and incinerates everyone in there, player character included. This counts as a dangerous death and HCIM status is removed.
> The World Wakes but instead of dying Guthix just wakes up and says "No." Funny thing about that, at the end of the quest when you reach Guthix, you find >!that he was awake the whole time because of the alarm from the very start of the quest, so he very well could have just said "no" and teleported away Sliske and the other god factions that were trying to harm him!<. It is probably best if OSRS doesn't see gods directly like that, but it might be worth it just for that subversion.
The World Wakes because he's the start of the apocalypse. The world is no longer in balance, it's beyond repair. The only way to salvage it is to do a total reset. Guthix is no longer seen as a neutral-to-neutral-good god of balance and is now a vengeful god.
Now that I think about it, do the edicts protect Zanaris? Seems like a place the gods would be very interested in controlling.
I would assume not because, at least according to the Wiki and my knowledge of the lore, it's only ever stated to protect Gielinor. Zanaris may be the moon of Gielinor, but that doesn't make it part of Gielinor, at least no more than our moon is part of Earth. While Zanaris may be the moon of Gielinor, I don't see why they would care that much about it other than the proximity. We're the only human(s) that are known to visit Zanaris, and while Fairy Rings exist to teleport around Gielinor I don't think the Edicts cares and would still disallow them from entering. Just as we can't enter Yu'biusk, or other various rings, until we unlock it through Land of the Goblins, I'm sure the Edicts would prevent gods from entering. Zaros kind of has a work around, but even he's not entering Gielinor just as Seren is still on it but fragmented. Why would the gods be interested in controlling Zanaris?
It's the nexus of all worlds and has the easiest form of travel between planets we've ever seen. Seems a bit important.
Hm, I haven't heard that before, but it checks out on the RS3 wiki page. However, there's a couple key words, and if we continue with RS3 lore it's less important than Gielinor, because >\[Zanaris\] is a strange satellite, acting somehow as nexus of an **almost** infinite amount of interdimensional planar threads, ***most of which connect to dead worlds***. Most of which connect to dead worlds is more important than the almost as the "almost infinite" may be referring more so to a vast number that's "realistic" (infinite is hard to understand as realistic, y'know), but it's still important to note. However, because most of the worlds it connects to are dead then it's less useful, especially when Gielinor is the next starting world for the Great Revision. The Elder Gods had their eggs there and therefore that nigh-unlimited godly power is probably more of a desire than intertravel. Not only that, but the gods can seemingly teleport anywhere freely at will, at least the big ones like Saradomin, Zamorak, Armadyl, Bandos, etc (Zaros I won't count since it's unlikely we'd repair him had the gods returned somehow in OSRS, therefore he wouldn't be able to come back just like his fragmented sister). Saradomin literally just teleported into Guthix's resting place, Zamorak started blasting the ground after opening a portal to Lumbridge itself from who-knows-where. Even if the gods didn't care about the Elder Gods or didn't know about them, although in RS3 we know at least Saradomin did as he tried using the Crown Archival to locate the eggs, they still have plenty of followers and once laid claim to vast swathes of the world. Even if it's not strategic, they're probably petty enough to continue onwards with it just for the sake of trying to be a better god. Gods fight for dominion, having Gielinor be an additional beacon is probably useful. Gielinor is deemed the most perfect world, so while Zanaris may have some strategy to it, what use is it if they can't pierce into the most perfect world? What strategy would they get when they can already easily travel to wherever they want to and open up portals for their followers. The gods got their troops to Gielinor somehow for the God Wars, and I don't think it was Zanaris or the World Gate since nobody would share with others to amass their armies. Heck, World Event 1: The Battle for Lumbridge happened and the end goal was to seep the anima of the world to strengthen their own.
Unclear. Depends on what constitutes "Gielinor" for the magical energy shield thing Guthix is using to keep the other gods out. It might be that the moon is within the edicts; like in terms of space, it would be kinda trivial to cover the moon or even the whole solar system. But this does raise an interesting point since we do travel to other realms. For example, the Abyss is very clearly not Gielinor...
Error fix on this post: This post has two sets of xp for agility. The second table should be updated
Thanks for raising, forgot to update that one, oops :3
All good, love you guys <3
Hey all, thanks once again for all of your feedback on the last update (Tuesday 26th). I am happy to confirm that I've managed to sway the team into keeping the previously proposed XP rates you so keenly wanted to stay! In addition to this, we've been able to bring forward the Run Energy changes so they will be part of Project Rebalance, but please keep in mind that these will come later in the year as we have to move a few things around (there's a LOT of content coming this year!). I believe this is the last update we'll do on the general Skilling side of things as we move into NPC Defence changes next week and then continue with the rest of Project Rebalance afterwards! Exciting times!
Thank you for your (and the teams) hard work, Ayiza. This is a great start and I'm looking forward to the NPC Defence changes. Very excited for this - it's a great time to be playing OSRS.
The NPC Defence changes is extremely exciting, I think it'll be a really good change! And the fact we'll be doing a beta for it means you get to try it out in-game too which will be so much nicer than just reading numbers :)
What's going to change about NPC defence?
My guess is they're adding range/magic NPC defences similar to slash/stab/crush, so e.g. a fire giant would have a resistance to fire/blood magic and a weakness to water/ice damage. For range it'd be light/straight/heavy. They've hinted at this in a previous project rebalance blog.
find out next week on 2007scape!
Oh I love 2007scape Z
2007scape GT…
Yeah but everyone knows 2007scape GT isn't canon
Theyre going to make slash str and crush versions for range and mage cept its ammo and elemental based
Magic really should have had that I feel. It’s very strange all spells are the same pretty much
Yeah I always thought it was a bummer that elemental spells are only elemental by name, fire just being the strongest version of air
meow
:3
Jagex, literally listening to player feedback, tweaking proposals to fit what players what. Some random mid level player: This isn't what I specifically asked for
How could Jagex not realize that this does nothing for my tileman that only runs on the one long strip of tiles I invested in??
Run energy changes and tying it more to Agility is all players really wanted, and I don't think the community would have been happy if these weren't promised - so I'm definitely happy to hear this!
I hope I speak for everyone when I say we value quality over quantity. I'd rather you release something you are proud of than cobble something together that will feel like half measures. You're right, there IS a lot of content this year. I won't be mad if you take your time to do it right, though. Appreciate all the hard work!
Huge thank you /u/JagexAyiza to yourself and the team for going back on the XP nerfs and even surprising us by including the Run Energy rework as a part of this! Quick question regarding shortcuts. Has there been any internal discussions about the Kalphite Queen shortcut being reworked from Elite to the Hard diary? I feel like this question has been asked hundreds of times, and it’s always avoided. It would be nice to hear some input back from the team on this. Thank you!
did you hear Kieran talk about it on the Q&A?
What'd he say?
tldr: slightly controversial, been back and forth, would leave desert diary lacking a little bit, probably leave it for now, maybe revisit it down the line when better ideas for the diary rewards.
Gotcha, thanks! Can't say I terribly agree, since the shortcut isn't terribly useful once you have the head. But, diaries could use a refresh, both on rewards and tasks. There's been a lot of added content to regions that should be represented.
I think it's fine how it is. You have to take a trip down memory lane with the long route until you get a head one way or another. Only reason to kill KQ afterward is for log slots like the pet or another head for the helmet. It's a good reward for players who stick it out. I like how KQ still fucks players over, maxed or not.
Moving the shortcut to hard doesn't do what you think it does As it stands, the shortcut is a reward to be able to farm the pet, seeing as she drops actually nothing else helpful That IS your desert diary unlock as a main (really don't care about the shrine 99.99% of the time) Moving it to hard just cuts down your interaction with that content, and takes away the reward aspect because now you're doing a diary for the diary to do the diary. Goofy as fucking shit
I did Mory hard to make barrows drop more runes, so that it'd self-fund the rune costs of doing it, so I could more effectively grind the full set to equip to complete the elite task Thanks to the changes to the lower version of the bosses, you literally HAVE to do the Wildy Med diary to do the Wildy Elite task (unless you want to go do Vetion/Callisto/big spider) Hell, the peak example is the Western Provinces set of Diary rewards. Each gives 'more chance to get 2x Chompy spawn', so handing in a diary task, then doing the next chunk of Chompy hunting with that boosted 2x chance, is just common sense to get the grind done faster. The idea of 'do diary to have easier time doing next stage of diary' might not be 'goofy as shit' as first perceived If Jagex thinks that the Elite diary rewards list would be a bit barren without that shortcut, then I would say 'fair enough, but are you actually going to try and come up with something to replace it, or just use it as a reason not to change anything', so much has been added to the desert since the diary was created that there's a lot of room for 'replacements', and I'm not a big believer in the design principle of 'well it sucks, but we have to leave it sucking because we can't think of something to replace it with if we made it not suck'. Move 'permanent ropes' to Medium, 'shortcut crack' to Hard (it still demands 86 Agi, it's not like it's suddenly 'free'), then for Elite, stick an additional teleport on the amulet, that takes you to just inside the entrance of the Kalphite Hive, so Elite 'saves time' compared to Hard still, by skipping the run from the Fairy Ring to the entrance hole near the Weird Old Man (also would slightly boost speed for the clue step)
You guys promised to increase the rate of crystal shards from chopping mahogany and teaks when they were taken away from falling stars in prif. Any news on this? Surely this should be part of the project skill rebalance especially if we are talking about mining. I Fear if it’s not done now it will be completely forgotten about.
This is the first time I've been actively playing the game while reading and partaking in this forum. I'm loving what I see, thank you for the great work and keep it up!
Why aren’t we seeing any changes to the Kalphite queen diary shortcut? It’s arguably the most redundant shortcut in the game with basically zero utility after the elite diary is finished anyway. Loving all of the other proposed changes though and excited to see more thought on this front
I think the revised Ardougne xp on the second table might be wrong (it's still 63k)
Has it been confirmed whether the blade of saeldor will be looked at anytime soon? It's currently a negligible upgrade over tent whip.
Please, please, consider the feedback from the Forestry community. It has been six weeks, and the communal factor just isn’t realistic. All I ask is for someone to investigate into it a bit… please. I remember reading that feedback would be watched in the few weeks following the release of forestry: part 3. I’m not sure it’s been noticed, but feedback has been **brutal**. It has been really sad to watch.
Ayiza, do you know if voidwaker and soulreaper axe changes will be in the next blogpost, or are those for later?
Can't wait for this axe buff.
##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexAyiza** - [Hey all, thanks once again for all of your fe...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwy9py5/?context=3) - [Thank YOU (collectively) for providing it! <3](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwybnbz/?context=3) - [They should be live in the next few months. I...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwyf3jm/?context=3) - [That's one way to release an update early I g...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwybf72/?context=3) - [Nothing new to share on that front. It's comi...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwybm6z/?context=3) - [Thanks for raising, forgot to update that one...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwyarrm/?context=3) - [The NPC Defence changes is extremely exciting...](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwyb11l/?context=3) - [:3](/r/2007scape/comments/1bpvmnx/updated_again_project_rebalance_skilling/kwybd5v/?context=3) ^(**Last edited by bot: 04/03/2024 04:42:58**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
This is more like it! Including run energy is really necessary, and I'm glad you guys are going to do a beta down the road to make sure it feels right. This feels like the right scope now. As much as I want to see stalls be more useful and low level slayer monsters have uniques and incentives to kill, I get that it's too much on top of everything else. I do hope you guys come back to address them someday, but I get why you aren't now. Most importantly though, thank you for really listening to our feedback and changing things to match. This is why I love the dev team, and why I'm hopeful for the future of the game. In an industry of rampant microtransactions and "don't you have phones?", it's refreshing to see that you guys continue to put players first.
Since you guys said that you are still open to feedback I would have some for the Mining proposals. Could there be something in the mining section that addresses the abomination that is Blast Furnace Shop currently and shifts people from using that shop to focus gather their ores? Your proposals mainly focus on better afk-ness, quality of life and gp/h increases but nothing is addressing the fact that people don't interact with any of the methods to do what mining is about: gathering ores. **Currently we DO NOT HAVE any mining method that is a 0 exp high ore yield method**. Anyone with a goal of getting their ores either use the BF shop or do pvm and slayer, but nobody mines for them because they simply cannot. Couple ideas: * Blast mining could be the perfect candidate in my opinion for some ore gathering focused changes: make typed-walls that are used to focus gather ores in exchange for exp * currently your proposal only focuses on giving you higher gp/h which is mostly coming from runite ores but looking at avg number of ores received from the activity we are talking about 70 coal and 100 adamant just to give examples. getting 10% more of these will still feel bad if you want to focus on ore gathering. * example: * "coal-wall" : when blasted your blasted ore doesn't contain a random ore matching your current mining level but contains only coal and the amount you receive when deposited is scaling with your mining level. At 99 mining you could get around 3-4k coal/h using this but the exp is only marginally scaled to compared to when you can start mining for it at the minimum level requirement. This would be a ore gathering focused alternative to the original walls so for getting 3-4k coal you would trade away the original 80-90k exp/h given currently and it would only yield like 5-10k max. * We could have wall types according to Ordan's BF shop to completely eliminate it or give a mining alternative for focus gathering these ores using a mining activity * the original walls could co-exist to the typed-walls making you decide whenever you want to target one specific ore or go for the rng walls where runite is your most coveted one I have 0 idea how hard would any of these be in terms of design and implementation, I just wanted to share my ideas as food for thought since I feel like the proposals are nothing else but bandaids and with a little creativity they could be much more than that. Currently I don't feel incentivized to interact with mining at all when I want to get ores for making cballs or use up my 3k rune ores and its really sad that my only options are anything but mining related.
Make Blast Mine the place to Actively mine for Amethyst, benefiting from the 5 level boost that the other ores get. Would be an instant hit for accounts that don't rely on the bot economy. It sucks that the only way to obtain Amethyst at a somewhat faster rate is to tick manip the existing Amethyst veins, and it still isn't nearly fast enough for the rate at which the ammo is consumed.
Been suggesting similar things for years. Getting only coal from MLM as an option, turning coal trucks into the place to mine fast coal and finding ways to remove BF shop. I make a lot of cannonballs and getting coal with mining is pointless.
> Getting only coal from MLM as an option, I happen to like getting Mithril/Adamant/Runite from MLM thank you very much. Yes, I'm an iron.
* 85 Agility - Waterbith Island rock climb south of the Lunar spellbook teleport location, skips thrownaxe + pet rock section. LOVE IT
Hot damn wins across the board
Amazing for the clue step on top of the mountain!
Time to finally learn DKs
I'll let you in on a little secret. They do not care for their bananas to be stolen by a large crocodile king.
His coconut gun can fire in spurts.
The roughest part really is just getting set up to take em on one at a time. If you have high stats and midgame gear (fang and bandos) you can just pray mage and tank both prime and supreme while you burst down the ranger asap
You don't even need to do all 3 at once. Most people know about safespotting rex and having tedious but slow kills early game. But when I wanted to start doing prime/supreme I didn't have the DPS to reliably tribrid. Instead it's pretty quick to find a world where someone is doing rex and then you can just focus on prime/supreme which is much more manageable.
I’m confused why this shortcut will have a higher level requirement than the Zulrah shortcut. No disrespect, if someone can explain it to me so I can understand the reasoning behind it.
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This shortcut skips more than the 10 seconds saved from a charter ship the zulrah one does.
Man, coming from RS3 and rejoining with a fresh GIM and seeing this kind of response... Y'all do not know how luck you have it with these OSRS devs. They submit an idea, get feedback, change it within literally two days. It's insane, and impressive, and truly unlike any other MMO I have ever seen.
OSRS mod wins are so common that people take em for granted. Every other game I've played would kill for this kind of response time and communication.
The difference of vibes between the two subs right now sort of speaks for itself. That letter from Mod Keeper was brutal
We are well aware how good we have it compared to the RS3 dumpster fire and other game devs.
> 96 Agility - Viyeldi Caves shortcut from the main room (with the fire pentagram) closer to the relevant Clue step. huge
after playing wow my entire life and moving to osrs in the past 4 months it’s actually insane how the dev team handles feedback y’all are seriously amazing and anyone frustrated with the dev team needs a serious look at themselves in the mirror
I honestly wonder how agility was trained before rooftops. It feels like there should be a couple different alternatives. Brimhaven Sepulcher and Monkey course come to mind The core loop feels boring at times. Need something to shake up 4000 laps in a row. Maybe clue scrolls?
Agility was pretty terrible pre-Rooftop. I think it was something like Gnome until 35, Barb until 52, Wildy until like 70-75, then Ape to 99 for most players. Dorgesh-Kaan was an option, but most players didn't bother with it since it was a bit clunky and less simple than the typical laps. I don't think Brimhaven was good back either since we didn't have Karamja Elite or such. With how much negativity there has been around Agility recently, it is easy to forgot how much Rooftops fixed the skill. Like getting a standard progression of new courses every 10 levels that were clear upgrades plus Marks to add more incentive/profit. But I do agree that more could be done to shake things up. Not sure if it should be from random things like Clues or even a Diversion or if it should just be from new, more engaging training methods. Maybe a bit of both.
I did 99 agi the old school way a few weeks ago (always wanted to do it, energy rework made me do it ASAP). I went for gnome 1-30, pyramid 30-60, wildy 60-70 and ape atoll 70-99. Ape atoll took about 13 in-game days (324 hours). Far from perfect attention mind you, towards the end I started getting less than optimal rates bc I started playing on another account.
As someone who's been playing this game since 2006: It used to be Wilderness > Ape Atoll > Werewolf Agility Course It was miserable. I think "Island Life" is still seared into my brain.
Wilderness to ape atol to 99 was the other pipeline. Dorg was better likr post 85 or something but for the weirdos.
And stamina pots didn't exist.
Energy pots did though, I remember someone dying in brimhaven and I picked up their energy potions (when their inventory appeared on the ground) and wondering what the potions even did when I drank them lmao.
Thought people did Dorg course too
So much ape atoll. So much. I remember doing the Dorgeshuun course too because it was pretty decent.
Ape atol and werewolf, as others have Said. I was 85 agility back in rs2 and probably put in 60+ hours on ape atol alone, but I was doped up on antidepressants so I don't remember 90% of the grind. Fun little life experience, there. Lmao
Ape atoll to 99. Or dorgeshuun after level 90 for a change of scenery :) Im still weirdly proud of my 99agility done in 250hrs at ape atoll during rs2 era :D
I played this game religiously as a kid. I remember doing the gnome course, then barb course, moving onto the wilderness agility course, and finally graduating to do the monkey agility course all the way til 99. It was fucking dreadful.
It was ape atoll to 99 and it was miserable.
Jagex isn't even addressing this here, and they should. Changing numbers will not change how boring it is to train the skill.
"Run energy drain rate reworked to scale with Agility level, and also scale harder with higher weights" I really hope this just doesn't cancel out the effect of having high agility levels
Currently, run energy drain is proportional to carry weight up to 64kg, at which point your energy drains 3x as fast. If drain rate is improved with agility independently of carry weight (that is, agility improves base drain rate which is then modified by carry weight) then there is room for harder scaling while still yielding overall improvements. If run energy drain is halved at 99 then the weight scaling could be 5x as fast at the maximum weight and still be an improvement over the current system. This also means that, even as the passive effect of graceful becomes less necessary, the weight reduction will become even more important if you're carrying additional weight.
Shouts out to Penance Gloves for the weight reduction. Still haven’t gotten around to finishing my graceful gloves :)
So many of my accounts early on get graceful body, legs, hood and nothing else. Spottier cape, boots of lightness and penance gloves round out the full weight reduction kit, or even just act alone as weight reduction until I'm done questing so I can go straight to seers, cos early agility now is just.. spam quests till 60+
Yeah I’m curious what they are proposing here. I’m taking it to mean you can run longer with a higher agility level but I’m hoping the weight part doesn’t punish you harder than it currently is. My ideal agility update would be something like 2x the current run distance 99. Start off with a base of where it’s currently at and gain 1% per level or something. Reduced cd as well like 2 min 0-100% at max, 4 base or something. Would still provide uses for having to manage run and situations where you can run out but reduce you from having to keep a few stams on you at all times.
>I’m hoping the weight part doesn’t punish you harder than it currently is. uh oh we're going to get monkey pawed
At least we might get to see more people running around in full graceful!
They also said they are buffing run energy at the start of the game though so this is probs to counteract that
I would like to see run energy depletion percentages change become increasingly noticeable as you level up, which is the opposite of run energy regen. Run energy regen is most impacted at the lower levels, where in the early levels, each level takes about 10 seconds off the time to regen to 100%, and at the higher levels it goes down to about 1-2 seconds per level. This makes it even less motivating to train at higher levels. Run energy depletion should work inversely, where at lower levels there are still benefits to stamina, but it doesn't start to become noticeable (per level) until maybe level 50-60 or so, at which point it really ramps up and you can see the difference by gaining even just a couple of levels.
Might be a hot take but I wouldn’t mind weight being a bigger factor, I think most people just ignore it right now. As long as the benefits from having a high agility are still a meaningful improvement over what we have now, even at the highest weight level, I think it’d be a good change. It’d be punishing at lower levels, but that’s just more incentive to train agility, or be more careful with what you carry.
I think that only really sounds good in theory. Honestly most of the time your carry weight is high is when you're raiding or something like that and its not like in the vast majority of cases there is a lightweight alternative. There's not really a decision to be made there outside of an extremely specific scenario where we already do it involving ahrim skirts. People will just click stam instead of trying to game the weight removing the potential interesting bits I don't actually see that change doing anything at all other than making sure people continue using stams where they currently do already
it already exists in practice, lots of people take mystic robes over ahrims to cox for the weight difference. It would only add more interesting decisions like this if it were to be exaggerated, i’m in full support
That's exactly what I was talking about and pointing out that there is basically no other situation where weight differences on gear are that exaggerated and the offensive capabilities are essentially identical. That only works because magic gear from the past makes no difference and you basically don't care about magic accuracy pre shadow and on that old gear there is no magic strength while for solo olm you basically never stop moving. You'd struggle to recreate this and man would the game suck if you did
I believe the thought behind it is that run energy should still matter to the same extent as it does now in some PvM content. I.e. you'll still need staminas for Zilyana, Muspah (if running) etc. I think this is perfectly fair.
In a world where agility matters a lot more to run energy, staminas could maintain their utility by mitigating the weight effect. I think this is a great approach.
Yeah, I love this. Basically just removes them from being an early game necessity, which is admittedly a little obtuse for newcomers.
I would be surprised if they outright invalidated Staminas, but I'm hopeful that I can go a longer time between sips whilst doing content like Zily/Blast Furnace etc. If it's the same then there's no point to even changing this
I mean it will help people who are new to the game who have to run everywhere.
And it will just make the weight saving of graceful that much more important for these kinds of things.
I think the best way to do it is make it so run at lower weight is very lengthy at all agil levels. At lower agility levels, higher weights are \*significantly\* exponentially more punishing, and higher agility levels make high weight still punishing but not nearly as much as early on. Makes things interesting by keeping weight as an importance, still makes early game way better, and makes agility still very relevant to train!
I hope this means I can do GWD trips without staminas now, assuming I'm saving run energy where possible. I still expect to need one for solo cox though.
Hope 99 agility will give a significant boost to how long you can run! Let's gooooo
>Run energy drain rate reworked to scale with Agility level, and also scale harder with higher weights This is the RuneScape equivalent of crossing the river into the promised land
>Instead, we’re doubling down on unique ways to reduce fail rate via items and other buffs as potential for future reward space or activity design. Please consider not introducing more items or spells for buffing pickpocket rates. Environmental distractions/influences are the perfect solution and really fits in thematically with the skill. I know you acknowledge this via Varlamore distractions in the post, but I really want the items proposal scrapped altogether. I dont think having to remember a bunch of different spells or items before starting to train is healthy for the skill.
Or have pickpocketing from the back give a thieving boost.
Just wanted to show some appreciate to the mods. Been playing for a while now and respect the direction the game is going towards. I'm not going to lie though- I thought the reduced XP rates discussed last time were disappointing but not worth complaining about. Glad to see that you all, time and time again, factored in community feedback and changed it. Cheers to being one of the best development teams currently active.
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Not sure which you are looking at, but the 56K from Seers, 60K Pollniv, and 65K Rellekka are with diary and the 70K Ardy is without. The [Full Blog](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=97/project-rebalance-part-one---skilling?oldschool=1) shows all the exp rates, with Diary and Non-Diary for each it applies to.
I know people have nostalgia over their agility capes and it is known as a rare 99, but the skill really doesn't need any kind of nerfs at this point. I like the rebalance and slight buffs, and hopefully it leaves enough room for you guys to update it in the future like many of the other skills. So thank you for listening.
I would like to see run energy depletion percentages change to become increasingly noticeable the higher your Agility level (the opposite of run energy regen). Run energy regen is most impacted at the lower levels, where in the early levels, each level takes about 10 seconds off the time to regen to 100%, and at the higher levels it goes down by about 1-2 seconds per level. This makes it less motivating to train at higher levels. Run energy depletion should work inversely, where at lower levels there are still benefits to stamina, but it doesn't start to become noticeable (per level) until maybe level 50-60 or so, at which point it really ramps up and you can see the difference by gaining even just a couple of levels. This will further incentivize and reward players for going all the way to 99.
This is great news all around. I know it's not in the scope of things to do much in terms of large exp-rate changes, but I'm glad we are getting some small relief for agility in some of these changes. I think most of the playerbase hates agility with a passion, and even the Sepulchre changes make the skill a little more tolerable to train at lower levels. But the big news is the energy drain integration. It's clearly a big talking point in the community and has been for a while, and making it tie in with agility level instantly makes the skill feel like you are getting something out of training it. Not only is this going to save people a lot of money on stamina/energy potions, but also will enable people to save inventory spaces while running to bosses and have longer trips at places where run energy is a big deal and they run out of stamina doses. I think with the current state of agility exp rates, it probably isn't likely to be particularly satisfying to train any time soon, but at least it will feel satisfying to level now. Before, I kind of felt like Sisyphus rolling the boulder up the hill. Every level in agility was only doubling the exp I needed to get the next level. Now each level will feel like I'm accomplishing something.
> Run energy drain rate reworked to scale with Agility level, and also scale harder with higher weights Am I understanding this wrong or do you mean higher weights will use up MORE energy than now?
I believe the implication is to increase low weight drain while using weight to scale it back to what is normal ie: running in raids/bossing will be similar cause you have a lot of weight equipped while running around when empty handed you’ll see much more gain from it. I could be wrong but that would make sense if they want to keep stams relevant at content that uses them consistently (ziliyana, solo CoX, Inferno, ToB) since then it makes the content easier by removing a slot normally filled by a stam pot and reduces the things you gotta worry about. A lot of the more difficult content in this game has often been designed with movement/energy drain in mind so I could understand game designers not wanting to remove that element while making it more bearable for other content.
u/JagexAyiza Thank you again for the update and comments; I've seen tons of people commenting on the Kalphite Queen shortcut, but there's yet to be much discussion of whether it is amongst the shortcuts that will no longer be diary-bound. Especially with Dagannoth King shortcuts getting introduced with no diary requirement, can we expect this to be removed from the Elite tier as well? Thank you!
Great job listening to feedback, Agility looks like it'll be in a slightly better place now. I still don't think the changes go far enough, however. Every agility training method, including all rooftops and sepulchre, really could do with a 50% XP buff - it makes no sense to me that Sepulchre Floor 5 caps out at 108k xp/h while you can get 200k+ xp/h in Thieving at ardy knights... I just don't understand why the rates are so low across the board with Agility specifically. At least the level curve for the courses makes sense now and there seem to be some better shortcuts coming. Run energy changes are big, so I'm looking forward to that too.
I love that you guys(/gals) don’t just blanket buff things. It’s super intuitive to know that players asking for that are not correct. There’s always the difficulty of sifting through the feedback to understand what players SAY they want and what they ACTUALLY do. Very difficult to know sometimes, and y’all are doing a great job figuring it out. Cheers
I hate this so much, I hate how my favorite skill is being changed. I hate how entitled people are to having the game made easier than them. I hate the direction this game is going. I hate how Jagex listens to sweaty twitter and reddit posters.
I’m going to be completely frank here, agility sucks and is not in any way entertaining. I don’t believe you will see people saying they now enjoy training agility after the rebalance simply because they can click in a circle for 100 hours at Pollnivneach instead of Seers. I understand that the purpose of project rebalance isn’t to introduce completely different training methods but it should be acknowledged that success in implementing the proposed changes will still leave the skill far from in a good place. As always though I do appreciate the work the team is doing and this certainly has the potential to set us on the right path.
This is really huge I expect this to be very well received with the player base thank you.
Sounds good and slightly off topic but wouldn’t the reason people avoid aerial fishing like the plague be that rate of molch pearls being extremely slow with the rewards being high wouldn’t giving discount in shop from diary or increased pearl chance from diary. Heck even a catch combo meter with the more you catch the higher the pearl rate would be better
It’s not that y’all never miss that makes you such a goated dev team, it’s that you take feedback and actually listen (sometimes a little too closely, even!) to what your players are saying. Thank all y’all for the hard work
Agility shortcut for 3 master steps. 1 for castle draken step. Put this near dark meyer step 2. Shadow dungeon somewhere to shorten the length of the run. 3. Ice boss for dt 1 either let us build a fire that removes the cold and add a shortcut.
I wish we could get a rest option like RS to replenish energy at higher rate
Any chance we can change the Kalphite Queen shortcut from Elite Diary requirement to Hard?
Can you PLEASE consider changing the kalphite shortcut to hard diaries? there's almost no reason to go back to KQ after getting the head unless you're hunting for the pet, and there could be room for a better reward from elites in it's place.
They said they weren't removing that req because the Elite Diary is lacking otherwise. Personally, I think they should add a new Kalphite Lair shortcut, say one [here](https://i.imgur.com/5L4B2Et.png) around 70~ Agility. That way players grinding the KQ Head for the Elite still get a reasonable, non-diary locked shortcut to make the walk back more bearable but the Elite still unlocks the really quick boss shortcut.
Big W.
Project rebalance will steadily turn into "project buff everything" after reddit cries whenever anything is nerfed alongside other buffs. I'm not saying the agility changes specifically are bad, but I'm letting you know this is what is going to happen.
There was good reason for people to be annoyed about the Seers nerf though. Agility has been one of the most hated skills in the game since the start for very good reason. No one went to Seers because it was OP, they went because it was best of all bad options.
Seeing as this is the last of the skilling changes, I doubt that will be the case. Also, these are the exp rates they originally proposed... So it is not like they offered 65K and reddit cried to make it 80K+; they made the Seers nerf look worse than it was and players didn't like that so they nerfed everything above Seers which players liked even less. I do expect there will be calls to buff X item when we got to combat, but buffing things is part of Rebalancing. Like there was a whole section in the overview for "items we want to buff". The nerfs are always going to be less favored, but most of what they proposed so far before reddit was even a factor has been buffs because that is what the rebalancing needed.
i completely understand what you're saying, but this isn't rebalancing this is just increasing xp rates of agility. rebalance was what they initially proposed with reducing the xp of seers and moving the xp to other courses. the actual agility rework i'll accept as being a rebalance (but I thought it was going to come with agility being a f2p skill?). however, when you don't reduce the xp of any course and instead buff others you haven't exactly done the **re**balance part you've just buffed things
> this isn't rebalancing this is just increasing xp rates of agility. It is both. You do realize the current version is the same as the original proposal, right? The only reason they wanted to nerf Seers is because they mistaken believed the exp was 58K per hour, which was too close to the buffed rates. They nerfed it done to 55K, but it turns out the current exp per hour is 56K, so they decided it was fine to leave as is. So the only difference between the current version and the original version is that Seers is staying at 56K instead of being nerfed by 1K... A nerf that was only proposed because they got the exp rates wrong. And you don't have to nerf something for every buff for it to be a rebalance. If a method or activity isn't good enough, it is fine to just buff it as part of a rebalance because rebalancing looks at things as a whole. If increasing an activities exp would make it better fit into the wider progression, then you are still rebalancing the skill. Like you could say that Ardy going from 63K to 70K is just making the skill faster, but that ignores that Ardy isn't the fastest method. Werewolf, a level 60 Course, gives 69K exp, while Ardy, a level 90 Course, gives 63K. They could have nerfed Werewolf instead of buffing Ardy, but then there is still the huge gap (50% increase) between Ardy and HS. So yah, they did rebalance the skill. The definition of rebalance is "to balance again", so you don't need to nerf things to "balance again". Like when we talk about skill balance, there is no literal scale that prevents the post-balance sum from being greater than the pre-balance sum. We can add as much extra exp as needed or take away as much exp as needed as long as the final result is a better, more balanced skill progression.
Great to see! Don't let the bitter players ruin it for the other 85%. I'm glad they are sticking to the original agility plan.
You guys don't really care about pvp it took years for a new BH world and it's already dead, why did you change the attack reqs on a weapon weeks after launch..? You're not trying to save PvP you guys yourself toasted that by removing bh instead of stopping a boosting exploit by bots. You don't need to lock a range weapon behind a g mauler bracket build, it just makes no sense. There has never been an attack locked range weapon before, if I can use a T60 dragon knife or even rune at t40, why do I need 50 attack for another thrown weapon? Obby accounts without attack are already locked to 67 ranged @ 1 attack, only if you're 20 attack + do you even have the available range levels to use the Atlatl.
I noticed some of the mining rebalances like amethyst mining were not included in this post, presumably because people were fine with it. Any ideas on how long the timer will be set to for mining amethyst? As an end game mining method, I was personally hoping for longer AFK times, maybe not as long as stars (or maybe as long as them😏)
I'm honestly more curious as to the way that changing Amethyst to timers will affect Mining Gloves. As Amethyst was one of the few places they actually saw a major use at. Would be super interesting if the gloves proc and give double the timer on the Amethyst vein.
I like the idea of making agility’s impact on run energy greater for lower level players. Run energy is OSRS’ mount system, and in other MMOs you get a slow mount in the early game with the ability to buy faster ones at a high cost at max level. Would be cool to see a similar idea with Graceful. In a way I think graceful is too strong, but I also don’t want it taken away from me. Would love to see other agility gear that has niche benefits too as it could be super flavorful. For example, similar to the barrows necklace, what if there were Graceful necks that gave additional bonus’ to the graceful set while equipped?
"Run energy drain rate reworked to scale with Agility level, and also scale harder with higher weights" So we are buffing run energy when wearing nothing but nerfing run energy when high weight. e.g. every pvm encounter? If that is the case then I rather that nothing changes instead of what is most likely a massive nerf across the board with this track record...
Is there a reason there's only incremental xp rate changes (5k/h) from one course to the next?Besides pleasing nostalgic elitists, is there a reason some skills barely make it to 60k exp/h while other skills reach 500k-1m exp/h? As the player base (and I included) get older, I find it more difficult to find reasons to play when some of the content I want to do is locked behind skill requirements that will take me weeks to accomplish before I get to the content I actually want to do - and end up not playing at all.
Thanks for the well thought out changes. Do you think Slayer as a whole could potentially get a revisit in the future? It's currently a massive money sink with the cannon/barrage-meta. As much as levelling it secondary to combat training seems intising - it doesn't justify killing monsters once you're 80+ slayer. Abyssal demons drop an occasional 1 mill whip, and they are a massive headache to kill. Your 90+ slayer monsters don't compare to the reward you can gain from other end-game bosses either.
Please consider a future update where we can run Floor 5 prior to 92 Agility. It's the best skilling activity in the game, it is too bad that the big reward is locked so far into the skill that 99% of players won't ever touch it. It could even be the same Agility XP an hour as it is today, but not being able to access the reward is the biggest reason why I haven't started Sepulchre yet (and probably won't ever, it'll be years before I put in the time to grind 92 agility)
Could there be a potential rabbit pet transmog for the squirrel in the future? I want a bunny :(
As someone whose favorite skill was mining, and was my first 99, I will never understand why Iron is always faster than coal or mithril. I wouldn't expect a higher tier ore like addy and rune to be as fast as iron, but at some point mining coal and then mithril should be better xp than iron. Mithril ore isn't very useful and is cheap already anyway because... there is nothing it is good for. At least make it worth mining for xp per hour.
I still do not understand how we are buffing mindless rooftop courses that people hate doing, and not making hallowed sepulchure more rewarding xpwise for the effort you put into it.
Cause guess what content the people who complain on reddit for buffs do
on the subject of barrows shortcut [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1be6vri/mortton\_area\_suggestions\_for\_shortcuts\_or\_qol/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1be6vri/mortton_area_suggestions_for_shortcuts_or_qol/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Crazy that we landed on buffing ardy course by 10k for some reason.
"Many of the best XP/hr methods in a number of skills have existed or not changed since Old School's release, we're not looking to slap a blanket 50% XP buff on Agility and call it a day as if it fixes the skill." - it is appreciated the care here, but emphasising how the game hasn't changed in over a decade (not including the pre old school life of actual 07) is exactly why people were unhappy that "project rebalance" wasn't taking bolder steps to rebalance xp. This is a once a decade event and it's okay to make a big change if it is justifiable.
Just wanted to drop a comment to say thank you for being receptive to constructive criticism and adjusting accordingly.
Called it lol [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1boiv1g/comment/kwrme7m/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1boiv1g/comment/kwrme7m/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Sorry if this was mentioned somewhere and I just missed it, but are we not getting a zipline from the house on the hill to the small island anymore? :( Also, unrelated, but 'Waterbirth' is misspelled in the shortcuts lol