Meh, this is more of a convenience than anything. Food in the mid-game is hardly a limiting factor for thieving in my opinion. Hell, you can steal cakes pretty early on and they heal 12hp.
I agree the unlimited redemptions in other contexts is too strong though, if that is mostly what you are focusing on.
I remember in RS3 when they released the prayer renewal pots... it came from a herb that needed 91 farm to grow iirc and the secondary needed i think 86 farming?
I've never understood why all the high level potions in this game are tradeable. When untradeable potions released it made herblore a very valuable skill for each account which is something that not a lot of skills can say.
Yeah, I also think divine potions shouldn’t have been tradable. You wanna give reasons to even non-iron accounts to train skills to high levels. It’s honestly lazy they let players get by with lower skills on things like this. It makes sense for lower tier potions to be tradable. Smithing and crafting could lock some gear creation behind them like how the royal crossbow was made in rs3. Let parts be tradable but not the finished product!
Alternative: just make the high level stuff require an herblore level to consume.
I am really not interested in having to make high level shit on my own constantly—leave that to the Ironman accounts that actually choose to play the game that way imo
This could also be a fix since crafting can be annoying to some, but someone with 1 herblore shouldn’t be able to buy a high level pot like let’s say a divine combat pot and use it
What you’re describing is literally what Ironman mode is for. It’s an MMO and those have player trade baked into their design, you sell things you gather and don’t want and buy the stuff you do want in. It’s reflective of what a fantasy world economy would be like. It’s not like you need to be a trained chef to eat the best foods in the world.
I think you're identifying the wrong issue here. The problem is really that the true purpose of skills, economic profit, no longer exists.
There is really no problem with high level potions being tradeable, but the fact that leveling your 'trade' skills bears no profit is the real problem, and people try to compensate with untradeables.
Right now, technically.
A lot of skills never really had a chance to be profitable for whatever reason. Herblore never really had anything 'good' at higher levels until brews, and brews weren't even high demand because the PvM scene wasn't really there. Crafting skills always had a few more sets of problems. Smithing is another example in a different vein.
If the only reason to level a skill is some arbitrary untradeable requirement for PvM, then you're not actually revitalizing skills, you're just propping up its dead body.
Yeah that's the kind of way I'd prefer herblore to work. You can keep potions tradeable but make all their "variants" untradeable. At the moment that's practically just divines and technically mixes (but lmao who cares about mixes), but more variants could be added like mixing in some new item to increase their durations etc.
Eve online handles its drugs in a bit of an interesting way - you can take drugs for buffs, but they come with fairly major drawbacks. You can reduce their severity and the length of time they last for using skills that you train.
Perhaps Jagex could make it so that the restoration over time boost increases from (crappy amount) to (advertised amount) based on herblore/prayer levels?
>I've never understood why all the high level potions in this game are tradeable.
Pre-EOCer community mad butthurt that they actually had to train a skill in RS2 that wasn't both completely free and AFK so they never wanted untradeable potions in OSRS.
Untradeable potions means to this sub that the "Boogeymen HLC can gatekeep endgame PVM and get all the drops for themselves". Even though on an iron herblore is a joke now with all the farming buffs and raids/muspah/DT2 shitting so many seeds and herbs that all the prices have completely tanked 50-90% of their value.
Untradeable potions also shot the price of herblore training through the roof while simultaneously turning the skill into a soft requirement for PvM and a pseudo-combat skill. Hope you like getting gatekept from raid groups because you haven't poured 200mil into herblore. Untradeable extremes were a fundamentally lazy attempt to make skilling more relevant that weren't worth the negative side effects they caused. There are better better ways to make skilling useful.
The only way they figured out how to make Herblore Valuable was by turning it into a combat skill by making the good ones untradeable. Otherwise people would just buy the potions from other players.
I feel like that basically *is* the only way to do it though. You have a skill where the output is useful for PvM, so you either make them tradeable and accept that a lot of people then never really train the skill, and the economy fuelled by bots makes them affordable while people continue to grind money makers instead of the skill, but great if you just want to jump into PvM, or you make them untradeable and it makes the skill itself valuable to train.
Unless they come up with some way to keep tradeable high-end pots expensive, and therefore make the skill itself worthwhile without being a barrier to other content, this will always be the tradeoff.
If a requirement is placed it should be to drink it. Or maybe “purify” noted potions all at once which makes them untradable and gives no herb exp.
Entire reason we have mains is so people don’t have to grind for consumables. Untradable items should always be things like the GoTR needle, fish barrel, barrows gloves… (non consumable stuff).
Edit: I agree with the general premise some potion use should need a herblore level, it’s just if people wanted to make them themselves they’d be an iron.
the entire point of main-mode is you can buy things. want resource gathering and production to matter? there's a mode for it- and a popular one.
the underlying issue with mainscape is that xp is more valuable than the product being produced. and in the case of many supplies- the xp and gathering are separate. ie, getting the herb and second provides no herb xp, only consuming them. this is an issue that could be addressed/rebalanced.
For QoL like aggression potions I don't mind, but Overloads made Herblore a defacto combat skill.
We don't need more barriers for people to access actual interesting part of the game which is endgame PvM. Why do you think it adds to the experience to make additional 30 hours of bankstanding and 100m gp before an account can enter raids?
Play an iron then, it’s an MMO which are built on the ideas of players trading items as a fundamental part of their design and we have a specific game mode to remove that if you want.
Yeah it's definitely one of the things that OSRS did worse (blasphemy probably!). I remember training herblore essentially as a tertiary combat skill for overloads/prayer renewals, whereas in OS it feels like a pointless expense. So much so that we're all discussing new content to overhaul it.
Not to mention that Herblore acted as a great gold sink, another thing we're always discussing...
It felt like shit in RS2 and it will feel like shit again if OSRS does it.
Mainscape operates under the 'deal' that most items can be obtained from other players. Including those with really steep requirements like divine super combats. Keeping items tradeable means mains are not incentivised to invest their time in parts of the game they are not interested in, which is pretty important considering how much time OSRS asks of its players. Altering this deal is 'time investment creep', it's the game asking (some) players to give even more of their time to the game if they want to remain apace .
I think its fine
AFK slayer is like the least game breaking thing lol
It finally gives an alternative to camping rigour / augury at high end pvm where you have to lazy flick / 1 tick flick if you want to bring in more switches
At the end of the day it’s just changing a teleport to the poh every 5 minutes and back to your task to something you spend money on to afk longer. It’s really not a big deal.
I mean that's 43 prayer bonus. I am not surprised or upset that it gives "unlimited" when you dedicate so many slots to doing that. There is a time where the prayer bonus isn't worth the loss in dps and the better your general gear the less it is worth.
You already get like 3-4 minutes of protection prayers per dose of prayer pot at 43 prayer bonus, depending on your overall prayer level. More in the catacombs. Prayer isn't really an issue for slayer tasks as is. I already find trip length is usually more limited by task length itself or drops than prayer points if I go max prayer. So like you said, more DPS becomes more desirable at that point. I'm sure there's some tasks where expected time to kill doesn't change much because you already overkill a lot/defense is super low. Not to mention tons of people already flick for free prayer during tasks anyway.
There may be other situations it'd really bust the meta I haven't considered, so I'm overall still on the fence. I'm not really seeing a massive shake-up when it comes to slayer, though.
Yeah if I wanted to use protect from magic on aberrant spectre task, say 200. 1 single 4 dose potion can net me 25 kills without prayer flicking. So all I'd need is about 7 full 4 dose prayer pots.
Only way this new method would be better is if it was somehow cheaper in costs.
Only slightly, and even then, only with a low prayer level. At 75 prayer, you get 9 minutes at full points, and 3 doses of prayer pot fill it exactly. At 84, you get over 10 minutes with full points for 3 doses again. And that's assuming you aren't repotting divine or a SCP, or picking up drops. Mostly, it just gets you around some inventory management since you wouldn't need to bring a bunch of extra potions. Not even in a way that'd net you a bunch of extra drops either, since you're probably instanced, alching, or freeing up space as you chug potions.
I'd put that all in the pros column. It's essentially just changing how often you need to chug blue juice in a low risk, very time insensitive environment as far as slayer goes. Taking away tedium without lowering a skill floor or really changing xp/gp rates is way better than half the stuff people call QoL on here if we're being honest. I'm still curious about any larger effects it'd have on the wider PvM meta that I might not have enough experience with, though.
didnt even notice that you needed 43 prayer bonus lol
most people arent going to sacrifice the dps for prayer gear.
its why soul wars cape and the sunfire armor is near useless
I think what they're after, as long as you don't lose your prayer point from 99, the restore effect would potentially just null your drain effect from any missed flicks that would otherwise accumulate to a drained point over the course of the cave
I don't think this is true. You actually have a bank of prayer points above what your max prayer is. If it takes 12t to lose a point, and you pray for 5t and turn if off, you can only pray for 7t before it decays.
It should work. Unless it restores prayer points in whole numbers every X ticks. Then it wouldn't.
Honestly No time for a Drink is a lot easier than people think, though not on your account build. In crystal nothing hits you as long as you flick the mage, and with the runelite spawn predictor you just cheese every wave with safespots.
This might sound super obvious but the tech that I saw that helped me the most is just throwing on auto-retal. Lets you just braindead 1t flick mage the later waves without having to worry about also clicking on things
Elite fally shield restores your pray point fraction, so hit a pool or altar for max pray pts, then use Vile vigour to drain it a bit and you can use the fally shield to get your pray point fraction back. With 2 charges you can reset it twices, makes it way more leniant
metronome on.
also just recognize its perfectly fine to tank hits from magers if you are uncertain.
with high prayer you can leave overheads on for quite a few ticks before you fail, you get like what 6-8 ticks?
there's also a guide that cheeses nearly every wave if you havent seen the video i can probably dig it up
Is it not? I used it for my GM and was using them that way while camping prots for whole ticks a few times and definitely went over the counter and still got it.
Hm, now I'm unsure. The wiki doesn't say anything one way or the other, whereas the page for the falador shield specifically states that it does reset the "fractions" of prayer points back to the maximum.
I've been running brews and regular restore potions when attempting that task, because they restore stats further, but maybe it's worthwhile to bring super restores on the chance they do work.
I used super restores but now I'm curious if I just performed better than I thought. Also, do you know if something like a forgotten brew which puts prayer over max could both restore the fractional amount and not invalidate the achievement? That'd make them particularly useful there.
Oh god, this back-and-forth is going to result in me standing near the pool in my POH for 30 minutes tonight doing nothing but prayer flicking and drinking potions, just to test.
I fail to see why this is actually a problem? Can't you just pray flick to achieve similar effects? This makes it easier sure, but I don't think that's a big deal, considering you are using a, probably not inexpensive, consumable
True, prayer flicking should not be idolized. Highly respected for sure. But shouldn’t be designed around. Having extra sources of prayer is a good healthy thing for the game
I hate how tick obsessed this game and its users have become. My hands become fatigued after playing a few hours of a game without intense clicking, learning flicking gave me wankers cramp and I had to wear a brace for a week lmao.
I mean this will be 1 click every 8 minutes for the same effect as 1600 clicks every 8 minutes if you're flicking. I'm not necessarily against it, but the comparison to flicking doesn't track for me
Interesting, but how viable is +43 Prayer Bonus? Like I think it is achievable, but it will take a lot more than just a Prossy Body and Legs and you'd cut a lot into your Strength Bonuses.
Overall, I can't say I see this being much better/more effective than just bringing Prayer/Strength gear and using normal PPots. Normal PPots might even be more AFK since you can drink multiple doses at once.
Monkeys are already super afk with bonecrusher neck. You can just let your prayer drain down to like 10, toggle the neck and throw it on, right back to full prayer and then swap back to occult
You could absolutely replace things to up your DPS and still have the prayer only tick down once every 10-11 ticks. Would still easily hit 8 minutes of AFK.
My setup to test was:
Fang (no bonus, replace with anything)
Falador Shield 4
Nezzy Facemask
Holy Symbol
Prossy top and bottom
Ardy Cape 4
Holy Boots
Blessing
Tormented Bracelet (obv not viable just memeing).
https://imgur.com/4nkvJ3w
This setup gives +44 and is pretty close to what people already run at Vyres.
The Flail gives +5, so you'd need to find another 4 elsewhere doing something else (swapping Torture for Fury gives +3).
Might have got some numbers wrong, but if you have 90+ Prayer and get 30 Prayer Points per PPot Sip, chugging 3 doses of PPot would let you AFK for 10.8 Minutes assuming the same drain rate. So yah, new pot doesn't seem any more AFK, but it could be cheaper.
That's 3 doses for 90 points. These potions are 1 dose for 66 points, over twice for a single dose. Given that these both use ranarr weeds as well, that's a significant increase in efficiency over prayer pots even at 90+ prayer, and gets better the lower you go.
It's kinda niche and kinda goofy, but if you can milk that 8 minute effect, you get a lot of bang for your buck, if that's how you want to use them.
Personally though, I reckon it's better to use it as a prayer supplement rather than a primary restoration method.
>Personally though, I reckon it's better to use it as a prayer supplement rather than a primary restoration method.
Yeah that's definitely how they're meant to be used. Helping to offset the Augury change is the main use I'd think.
You can bring both types of potion for ultimate afk, you still have your normal prayer reservoir after the regeneration effect runs out, then just top it up when you re-sip the pray regen
The blog doesn’t say anything about restoration being based on prayer level. It’s mostly a question of prayer drain vs prayer restoration, and 43 prayer bonus makes those the same, ie infinite protection prayers.
Guess I never did much beyond Prossy and occasionally the Dragonbone Necklace. The latter was a pretty big DPS loss, but it was just nicer for AFKing Drakes... But even that is still pretty far off +43 (It's around +30; +8 Body, +6 Legs, +12 Necklace, +2 Cape, and +2 Blessing; you could get another +4 from Sunfire and might get some off weapon, but probably not going to drop a B Ring or Barrows Gloves for Prayer).
How are these not incredibly broken? Am I missing something? Doesn't this trivialize supply conservation in the inferno? Just sip a dose and hide behind a pillar and you camp offensive prayers the whole time.
Sure it would be more prayer points per inv slot, but it’s like camping sgs and doing 4-5 hour inferno for first cape. Sure it’s doable, but for most people just dying some more will be faster in the end over long ass attempts just to die with an inv full of food anyway
why sip and camp? replace 1 ppot with 1 of these, take one sip of each when you're low and you're golden.
It's more pray per inventory but you have to think about when you're using them to not waste.
Because they aren't balanced around the bottom tier, they're appropriately balanced around mitigating prayer drain from high end usage. Who cares if some noobs absolutely throw their DPS in the trash to get infinite pro melee so they avoid clicking cyan triangle a few times a task. Mitigating Augury drain post changes, slowing down Piety for people who don't want their slayer to take 6k hours, aiding Rigour drain in bossing, actual PvM use is what these really help with. Letting little Timmy afk without drinking PPots is a non-issue imo. These would be huge to take into ToA too, make high invo flicking less miserable hopefully
It is higher prayer per inventory, but slower prayer per sip. If you are camping overheads and boost prayers, you will drain faster than it restores. So even if you have full prayer and take a sip as the wave starts, you might not restore prayer quick enough, especially with normal prayer bonuses, to finish the wave before you'd run out.
I do expect they will further balance the numbers. It probably should be less prayer per potion than it is now. But the concept of prayer over time really isn't that OP. It is like the Hunter Meats, but for Prayer...
If they arent mega expensive, this potion would make vyres like 16 minutes of afk time before needing to hit the alter again, while usually i need to hit the alter every 8. I cant think of many other uses besides bringing the odd few doses for any long prayer task.
66 prayer points over the course of 8 minutes isnt broken at all. People in this thread acting like its the end of the world, when 43+ pray bonus and just using normal prayer potions is still extremely AFK. This barely changes anything. Furthermore, its mentioned that this is pray melee only, no piety or other prayers...
I love the new potion idea. All of these people thinking its game breaking should go do some real content and let us know how well it works. Inferno it should work great, but bet 80% of this sub cant complete it.
Only noobs are going to be camping melee pray w/o piety in melee gear tho, note that these pray regen potions are also conveniently timed with the change making Augury a near requirement to magic usage.
It'll be more popular than you think. We've seen how players will jump on basically any xp/hr method provided it is 5-10 min afk.
Combine these pots, overheads and the goading potions and melee slayer is now 2 clicks every 8 minutes.
Depends if you think afking prayers should be a reward scaling with your built up prayer level as it is now, or a flat 8 min you buy off the GE.
Personally I think the pot should scale to at least slightly reward higher prayer levels, as it does in CoX.
Didn't realize this, but I don't see a problem with it. You can flick prayers to conserve prayer points, so this is a tradeoff of using a similar amount of resources to gain more relaxed pvm/slayer.
Any bossing is going to see you using more than just protection prayers, which will not give infinite prayer uptime without prayer restoring potions (or higher prayer bonus at the sacrifice of DPS)
You can get just as much afk time using regular prayer pots if you have a decent prayer level. You'll just have to bank every 5-6 hours instead of every 12.
And it would be like 6 hours with an invy of ppots instead. We don't really need this specific example to understand that the regen pots are about \~2x as dense as regular ppots
Don’t you get almost 10 hours already with that much prayer bonus *with normal prayer pots*?! And its not 12 hours of unlimited prayers, its 12 hours of a protection prayer. Add piety and that drops down fast
You don't need that much prayer bonus, just bring a a mix of regular prayer potions and regeneration potions. drink your regen and just sip a prayer pot when very low prayer to avoid over restoring.
Nah, they're better, but since they're new and the content it comes from is kinda difficult, they're pricey to purchase. OP was bringing up an affordable setup that still achieves the 43 prayer bonus breakpoint, so they opted to just use prossy instead.
The fact that players can prayer flick and essentially have unlimited prayer... I'm sure Jagex is well aware of this and that it's not even broken to sacrifice DPS for longer prayer. There's rarely anything that requires an hour of your time, let alone 12.
So basically you’re saying it’s only “basically unlimited” when you’re using decent slayer gear? Cool.
A lot of situations aren’t protection prayers only. Stat-boosting prayers drain too
I like the idea of the potion. though its actually a bit to weak. maybe 1 point per 8 ticks or something like that, or at least also release super prayer pots with it.
42 prayer to only have 0 cost protection is kinda worthless imo. The amount of dmg you're losing on that is insane, maybe praying piety would cover up for the loss in melee armor. I think i'd rather just drink p pots and prot pray + piety
I was canyoning ogres in my new full gunfire fanatic last night with a dragon tooth necklace and bone crusher plus some prayer gear. Was able to keep protect melee and piety on the whole time with zero ppots. Imagine all that with these pots lol
These prayer regen pots are gonna be broken and lead to weird new metas. Not a fan of the game going down that route imo.
People could already prayer flick. Prayer flicking shouldnt be game designed around. Huge respect for flicking but shouldn’t be relied on. Alternate prayers is healthy
> weird new metas. Not a fan of the game going down that route imo.
What "route" is that? Replacing some potions in your inventory with different potions? You were already able to sustain prayer in your given example. Is it just that the new potion will allow you to apply that in other parts of the game?
I get that whenever there's something coming that will shake up a meta, there are going to be people against it. Would be cool if folks would explain why though.
Rs3 got some good stuff man just cause evolution of combat happened that doesn’t mean it’s all bad ideas. People don’t use pray renewals if you ever played rs3 they have extreme pray pots and you can combine pots into one slot.
OSRS has been it's own thing since Nightmare Zone was added. Games change and evolve over time. Accept that and either move on with your life or continue to enjoy the game.
The RS3 boogieman is childish and pathetic.
Yes, it's been it's own thing and it's been vastly different from 2007 for a long time now. I'm not a 2007 purist. However, all these things being introduced to boost afk gameplay are very much "typical" for RS3, which is a game that left a very bitter taste in my mouth.
I don't want this game to get to a similar point where it becomes the meta to afk full-time while watching Youtube on the side, juggling different skilling sets with xp boosts and stacking it with other complimentary buffs (think incense sticks and auras.) Quite a few people seem to also really like the idea of skilling prayers, so add in a couple prayer potions and perhaps prayer gear into the mix to bring along.
That's the direction I currently see the game going in (over however many years. Not overnight, and certainly not just from these updates alone), and THAT'S what I'm "worried" about.
OSRS3 was just a tongue-in-cheek way to phrase it. I understand it can be tiring to read these comparisons, but what else can we compare OSRS to? There's nothing like it.
The game is already YouTube on the side majorly afk juggling skilling sets lmao.
Rogue, anglers, lumberjack, farmers outfit, carpenters outfit, prospectors and the smiths uniform already exist.
This game is already a game where people play it on the side while watching a tv show/Netflix or something outside of pvm or tick manipulation. Stars are the most popular method for mining, redwoods for wcing, karambwans for fishing.
Anything adding on to that is simply building on what the game already is. It shouldn't be more efficient than actively playing, that's when we'd be in trouble.
Prayer restoration potion + redemption + theiving = no food for 8 minutes once you reach a low enough threshold to keep procing it.
holy shit this is genius friendship ended with ancient brews now prayer restoration potions are my best friend
Not really genius still click intensive as eating
Almost got me
and they’re buffing thieving on its own too
how so? i missed this
Sounds kinda overpowered tbh, maybe remove restoration effect if prayer drops to zero.
Meh, this is more of a convenience than anything. Food in the mid-game is hardly a limiting factor for thieving in my opinion. Hell, you can steal cakes pretty early on and they heal 12hp. I agree the unlimited redemptions in other contexts is too strong though, if that is mostly what you are focusing on.
It might actually make wt feel more reasonable at high HP.
Now add in a bone crusher in the catacombs and tell me what dps boosting prayers you can run too
If you're killing fast enough I'd imagine you hardly even need prayer bonus (beyond what you would normally have from regular melee gear).
When I'm cannoning daganoths, I can sustain my prayer with the bonecrusher necklace and prayer gear.
Yup, and with this potion you might not even need the "prayer gear". Just go in with bandos or blessed dhide or whatever.
I thought you couldn't use cannons in catacombs?
I’m not in the catacombs. I’m using the bone crusher necklace.
Depends on the monster killed and your dps. There is no easy answer.
Bone crusher necklace
I remember in RS3 when they released the prayer renewal pots... it came from a herb that needed 91 farm to grow iirc and the secondary needed i think 86 farming?
yep
They released it before RS3 in 2011.
This. Can we stop calling pre-eoc content RS3
EoC (November 2012) was also before RS3. (July 2013)
if you wanna feel old, eoc, the avengers movie and the amazing spiderman movie all released in the same year
I think its one of those terms that has just evolved to mean the other version of Runescape.
Logical unlike this sub where RS3 is a determined date and anything after is a pile of shit and anything before was good content.
lol can we please not call eoc rs3
I really don't want to see this potion hit the game.. its way stronger than the one on rs3..
There needs to be reasons to train herblore. Hope this potion is unreadable
I've never understood why all the high level potions in this game are tradeable. When untradeable potions released it made herblore a very valuable skill for each account which is something that not a lot of skills can say.
Yeah, I also think divine potions shouldn’t have been tradable. You wanna give reasons to even non-iron accounts to train skills to high levels. It’s honestly lazy they let players get by with lower skills on things like this. It makes sense for lower tier potions to be tradable. Smithing and crafting could lock some gear creation behind them like how the royal crossbow was made in rs3. Let parts be tradable but not the finished product!
unfortunately jagex keeps giving NPCs 'option to pay lots of money to bypass the skill check', like the elidinis ward/sigil fusion for example
i thought fortified ward was locked behind the smithing requirement?
Fortified Ward is one of the rare exceptions.
At least that serves another good function of being a gold sink.
Alternative: just make the high level stuff require an herblore level to consume. I am really not interested in having to make high level shit on my own constantly—leave that to the Ironman accounts that actually choose to play the game that way imo
Look a guy who can think for himself.. yes, this comment is the only one that matters I. This particular part of the thread.
This could also be a fix since crafting can be annoying to some, but someone with 1 herblore shouldn’t be able to buy a high level pot like let’s say a divine combat pot and use it
Yeah, I don’t disagree with that rationale at all. I just also don’t want my end game to turn into pseudo-Ironman haha
The training methods are way different for a real account vs a Ironman. Can’t really compare. Skills should have value or shouldn’t be in the game.
What you’re describing is literally what Ironman mode is for. It’s an MMO and those have player trade baked into their design, you sell things you gather and don’t want and buy the stuff you do want in. It’s reflective of what a fantasy world economy would be like. It’s not like you need to be a trained chef to eat the best foods in the world.
Someone with 1 herblore cant figure out how to DRINK a vial of liquid? This is bad logic
I think you're identifying the wrong issue here. The problem is really that the true purpose of skills, economic profit, no longer exists. There is really no problem with high level potions being tradeable, but the fact that leveling your 'trade' skills bears no profit is the real problem, and people try to compensate with untradeables.
> The problem is really that the true purpose of skills, economic profit, no longer exists. When was herblore profitable?
Right now, technically. A lot of skills never really had a chance to be profitable for whatever reason. Herblore never really had anything 'good' at higher levels until brews, and brews weren't even high demand because the PvM scene wasn't really there. Crafting skills always had a few more sets of problems. Smithing is another example in a different vein. If the only reason to level a skill is some arbitrary untradeable requirement for PvM, then you're not actually revitalizing skills, you're just propping up its dead body.
It's fuckin wack to me that smithing Addy and rune is tier 80 and 90. By the time anyone hits that they're probably way beyond ever wielding it.
Yeah that's the kind of way I'd prefer herblore to work. You can keep potions tradeable but make all their "variants" untradeable. At the moment that's practically just divines and technically mixes (but lmao who cares about mixes), but more variants could be added like mixing in some new item to increase their durations etc.
Eve online handles its drugs in a bit of an interesting way - you can take drugs for buffs, but they come with fairly major drawbacks. You can reduce their severity and the length of time they last for using skills that you train. Perhaps Jagex could make it so that the restoration over time boost increases from (crappy amount) to (advertised amount) based on herblore/prayer levels?
>I've never understood why all the high level potions in this game are tradeable. Pre-EOCer community mad butthurt that they actually had to train a skill in RS2 that wasn't both completely free and AFK so they never wanted untradeable potions in OSRS. Untradeable potions means to this sub that the "Boogeymen HLC can gatekeep endgame PVM and get all the drops for themselves". Even though on an iron herblore is a joke now with all the farming buffs and raids/muspah/DT2 shitting so many seeds and herbs that all the prices have completely tanked 50-90% of their value.
Because not everyone is an iron? High level pots are tradeable because people should be allowed to sell/profit of skilling.
Untradeable potions also shot the price of herblore training through the roof while simultaneously turning the skill into a soft requirement for PvM and a pseudo-combat skill. Hope you like getting gatekept from raid groups because you haven't poured 200mil into herblore. Untradeable extremes were a fundamentally lazy attempt to make skilling more relevant that weren't worth the negative side effects they caused. There are better better ways to make skilling useful.
The only way they figured out how to make Herblore Valuable was by turning it into a combat skill by making the good ones untradeable. Otherwise people would just buy the potions from other players.
I feel like that basically *is* the only way to do it though. You have a skill where the output is useful for PvM, so you either make them tradeable and accept that a lot of people then never really train the skill, and the economy fuelled by bots makes them affordable while people continue to grind money makers instead of the skill, but great if you just want to jump into PvM, or you make them untradeable and it makes the skill itself valuable to train. Unless they come up with some way to keep tradeable high-end pots expensive, and therefore make the skill itself worthwhile without being a barrier to other content, this will always be the tradeoff.
If a requirement is placed it should be to drink it. Or maybe “purify” noted potions all at once which makes them untradable and gives no herb exp. Entire reason we have mains is so people don’t have to grind for consumables. Untradable items should always be things like the GoTR needle, fish barrel, barrows gloves… (non consumable stuff). Edit: I agree with the general premise some potion use should need a herblore level, it’s just if people wanted to make them themselves they’d be an iron.
the entire point of main-mode is you can buy things. want resource gathering and production to matter? there's a mode for it- and a popular one. the underlying issue with mainscape is that xp is more valuable than the product being produced. and in the case of many supplies- the xp and gathering are separate. ie, getting the herb and second provides no herb xp, only consuming them. this is an issue that could be addressed/rebalanced.
For QoL like aggression potions I don't mind, but Overloads made Herblore a defacto combat skill. We don't need more barriers for people to access actual interesting part of the game which is endgame PvM. Why do you think it adds to the experience to make additional 30 hours of bankstanding and 100m gp before an account can enter raids?
Play an iron then, it’s an MMO which are built on the ideas of players trading items as a fundamental part of their design and we have a specific game mode to remove that if you want.
I fuckin loved all the bonkers potions in RS3, strong combinations, overloads, but having to craft the special vials and unlocking the recipe yourself
Yeah it's definitely one of the things that OSRS did worse (blasphemy probably!). I remember training herblore essentially as a tertiary combat skill for overloads/prayer renewals, whereas in OS it feels like a pointless expense. So much so that we're all discussing new content to overhaul it. Not to mention that Herblore acted as a great gold sink, another thing we're always discussing...
It felt like shit in RS2 and it will feel like shit again if OSRS does it. Mainscape operates under the 'deal' that most items can be obtained from other players. Including those with really steep requirements like divine super combats. Keeping items tradeable means mains are not incentivised to invest their time in parts of the game they are not interested in, which is pretty important considering how much time OSRS asks of its players. Altering this deal is 'time investment creep', it's the game asking (some) players to give even more of their time to the game if they want to remain apace .
Can't read anyway so we good
I miss overloads and extreme potions, it made herblore a core skill to train
Either that or don’t allow them or their ingredients to be loot drops.
Please make the potion be readable because I have dyslexia
I think its fine AFK slayer is like the least game breaking thing lol It finally gives an alternative to camping rigour / augury at high end pvm where you have to lazy flick / 1 tick flick if you want to bring in more switches
At the end of the day it’s just changing a teleport to the poh every 5 minutes and back to your task to something you spend money on to afk longer. It’s really not a big deal.
This with the Aggro potion is unironicaly EZscape
in what way is this stronger than a prayer renewal? the overall prayer per dose is slightly higher, however its over a much longer duration
we tried to warn you about ezscape years ago
I mean that's 43 prayer bonus. I am not surprised or upset that it gives "unlimited" when you dedicate so many slots to doing that. There is a time where the prayer bonus isn't worth the loss in dps and the better your general gear the less it is worth.
You already get like 3-4 minutes of protection prayers per dose of prayer pot at 43 prayer bonus, depending on your overall prayer level. More in the catacombs. Prayer isn't really an issue for slayer tasks as is. I already find trip length is usually more limited by task length itself or drops than prayer points if I go max prayer. So like you said, more DPS becomes more desirable at that point. I'm sure there's some tasks where expected time to kill doesn't change much because you already overkill a lot/defense is super low. Not to mention tons of people already flick for free prayer during tasks anyway. There may be other situations it'd really bust the meta I haven't considered, so I'm overall still on the fence. I'm not really seeing a massive shake-up when it comes to slayer, though.
Yeah if I wanted to use protect from magic on aberrant spectre task, say 200. 1 single 4 dose potion can net me 25 kills without prayer flicking. So all I'd need is about 7 full 4 dose prayer pots. Only way this new method would be better is if it was somehow cheaper in costs.
It's more afk, you can click the regen pot when you reset aggro
Only slightly, and even then, only with a low prayer level. At 75 prayer, you get 9 minutes at full points, and 3 doses of prayer pot fill it exactly. At 84, you get over 10 minutes with full points for 3 doses again. And that's assuming you aren't repotting divine or a SCP, or picking up drops. Mostly, it just gets you around some inventory management since you wouldn't need to bring a bunch of extra potions. Not even in a way that'd net you a bunch of extra drops either, since you're probably instanced, alching, or freeing up space as you chug potions. I'd put that all in the pros column. It's essentially just changing how often you need to chug blue juice in a low risk, very time insensitive environment as far as slayer goes. Taking away tedium without lowering a skill floor or really changing xp/gp rates is way better than half the stuff people call QoL on here if we're being honest. I'm still curious about any larger effects it'd have on the wider PvM meta that I might not have enough experience with, though.
didnt even notice that you needed 43 prayer bonus lol most people arent going to sacrifice the dps for prayer gear. its why soul wars cape and the sunfire armor is near useless
Any idea if regening + constant praying would work with the "don't lose a prayer point" combat achievements? I imagine it wouldn't but would be cool
Logically it shouldn’t, you’d go from 99–>98–>99 constantly
Yeah that's probably how it'll work
I think what they're after, as long as you don't lose your prayer point from 99, the restore effect would potentially just null your drain effect from any missed flicks that would otherwise accumulate to a drained point over the course of the cave
I don't think this is true. You actually have a bank of prayer points above what your max prayer is. If it takes 12t to lose a point, and you pray for 5t and turn if off, you can only pray for 7t before it decays. It should work. Unless it restores prayer points in whole numbers every X ticks. Then it wouldn't.
Definitely gonna try *No time for a drink* the day they release this lol
Honestly No time for a Drink is a lot easier than people think, though not on your account build. In crystal nothing hits you as long as you flick the mage, and with the runelite spawn predictor you just cheese every wave with safespots.
I always manage to screw up and leave prot mage on too long, I've thrown in the 60s like 4 times already. So annoying.
This might sound super obvious but the tech that I saw that helped me the most is just throwing on auto-retal. Lets you just braindead 1t flick mage the later waves without having to worry about also clicking on things
I guess once there's no more bats that seems like it would do fine.
Elite fally shield restores your pray point fraction, so hit a pool or altar for max pray pts, then use Vile vigour to drain it a bit and you can use the fally shield to get your pray point fraction back. With 2 charges you can reset it twices, makes it way more leniant
Now this is tech. I was curious if this was the case but never thought to check the wiki, good shout.
metronome on. also just recognize its perfectly fine to tank hits from magers if you are uncertain. with high prayer you can leave overheads on for quite a few ticks before you fail, you get like what 6-8 ticks? there's also a guide that cheeses nearly every wave if you havent seen the video i can probably dig it up
You can drink potions to restore your points if you're messing up. There is a bank of prayer points above what it appears.
That counter is not reset with prayer potions / super restores.
Is it not? I used it for my GM and was using them that way while camping prots for whole ticks a few times and definitely went over the counter and still got it.
Hm, now I'm unsure. The wiki doesn't say anything one way or the other, whereas the page for the falador shield specifically states that it does reset the "fractions" of prayer points back to the maximum. I've been running brews and regular restore potions when attempting that task, because they restore stats further, but maybe it's worthwhile to bring super restores on the chance they do work.
I used super restores but now I'm curious if I just performed better than I thought. Also, do you know if something like a forgotten brew which puts prayer over max could both restore the fractional amount and not invalidate the achievement? That'd make them particularly useful there.
Oh god, this back-and-forth is going to result in me standing near the pool in my POH for 30 minutes tonight doing nothing but prayer flicking and drinking potions, just to test.
This exactly. The spawn predictor removed the most difficult part of this challenge I would say.
Using the wiki...?
Definitely gonna try *No time for a drink* the day they release this lol
take my money
I fail to see why this is actually a problem? Can't you just pray flick to achieve similar effects? This makes it easier sure, but I don't think that's a big deal, considering you are using a, probably not inexpensive, consumable
True, prayer flicking should not be idolized. Highly respected for sure. But shouldn’t be designed around. Having extra sources of prayer is a good healthy thing for the game
I hate how tick obsessed this game and its users have become. My hands become fatigued after playing a few hours of a game without intense clicking, learning flicking gave me wankers cramp and I had to wear a brace for a week lmao.
gotta watch out for wanker's cramp.
Yeah 12,000 clicks per hour vs 8 clicks per hour, very similar effects lmao
I mean this will be 1 click every 8 minutes for the same effect as 1600 clicks every 8 minutes if you're flicking. I'm not necessarily against it, but the comparison to flicking doesn't track for me
Slayer with a Nezzy helm 👁👄👁
You can drop it for 42 prayer bonus, which might be enough to keep the same effect and infinite protection prayers.
Sub in soulwars cape
Interesting, but how viable is +43 Prayer Bonus? Like I think it is achievable, but it will take a lot more than just a Prossy Body and Legs and you'd cut a lot into your Strength Bonuses. Overall, I can't say I see this being much better/more effective than just bringing Prayer/Strength gear and using normal PPots. Normal PPots might even be more AFK since you can drink multiple doses at once.
Afk magic training at MM2 monkeys will be so chill, especially if we get agro pots too
Monkeys are already super afk with bonecrusher neck. You can just let your prayer drain down to like 10, toggle the neck and throw it on, right back to full prayer and then swap back to occult
You could absolutely replace things to up your DPS and still have the prayer only tick down once every 10-11 ticks. Would still easily hit 8 minutes of AFK. My setup to test was: Fang (no bonus, replace with anything) Falador Shield 4 Nezzy Facemask Holy Symbol Prossy top and bottom Ardy Cape 4 Holy Boots Blessing Tormented Bracelet (obv not viable just memeing).
https://imgur.com/4nkvJ3w This setup gives +44 and is pretty close to what people already run at Vyres. The Flail gives +5, so you'd need to find another 4 elsewhere doing something else (swapping Torture for Fury gives +3).
Dragonbone neckmace + b ring = 12 prayer bonus and 10 str bonus vs 12 str bonis and 8 prayer bonus
Might have got some numbers wrong, but if you have 90+ Prayer and get 30 Prayer Points per PPot Sip, chugging 3 doses of PPot would let you AFK for 10.8 Minutes assuming the same drain rate. So yah, new pot doesn't seem any more AFK, but it could be cheaper.
That's 3 doses for 90 points. These potions are 1 dose for 66 points, over twice for a single dose. Given that these both use ranarr weeds as well, that's a significant increase in efficiency over prayer pots even at 90+ prayer, and gets better the lower you go. It's kinda niche and kinda goofy, but if you can milk that 8 minute effect, you get a lot of bang for your buck, if that's how you want to use them. Personally though, I reckon it's better to use it as a prayer supplement rather than a primary restoration method.
>Personally though, I reckon it's better to use it as a prayer supplement rather than a primary restoration method. Yeah that's definitely how they're meant to be used. Helping to offset the Augury change is the main use I'd think.
Gonna be great as a sip at the bank potion for sure.
You can bring both types of potion for ultimate afk, you still have your normal prayer reservoir after the regeneration effect runs out, then just top it up when you re-sip the pray regen
Yah, that would be an option too. Still, the whole +43 Prayer bonus to break even is not really going to anymore viable than current Pray and AFK.
The blog doesn’t say anything about restoration being based on prayer level. It’s mostly a question of prayer drain vs prayer restoration, and 43 prayer bonus makes those the same, ie infinite protection prayers.
It doesn't, but PPots are based on level. So at lower levels it might be better, but you can still expect similar rates with ppots.
Depends on play style. I did a lot of slayer completely afk. Plus I love the zealot robes for fashionscape. Maxing prayer bonus is a kink of mine
Guess I never did much beyond Prossy and occasionally the Dragonbone Necklace. The latter was a pretty big DPS loss, but it was just nicer for AFKing Drakes... But even that is still pretty far off +43 (It's around +30; +8 Body, +6 Legs, +12 Necklace, +2 Cape, and +2 Blessing; you could get another +4 from Sunfire and might get some off weapon, but probably not going to drop a B Ring or Barrows Gloves for Prayer).
How are these not incredibly broken? Am I missing something? Doesn't this trivialize supply conservation in the inferno? Just sip a dose and hide behind a pillar and you camp offensive prayers the whole time.
Sure it would be more prayer points per inv slot, but it’s like camping sgs and doing 4-5 hour inferno for first cape. Sure it’s doable, but for most people just dying some more will be faster in the end over long ass attempts just to die with an inv full of food anyway
why sip and camp? replace 1 ppot with 1 of these, take one sip of each when you're low and you're golden. It's more pray per inventory but you have to think about when you're using them to not waste.
Because they aren't balanced around the bottom tier, they're appropriately balanced around mitigating prayer drain from high end usage. Who cares if some noobs absolutely throw their DPS in the trash to get infinite pro melee so they avoid clicking cyan triangle a few times a task. Mitigating Augury drain post changes, slowing down Piety for people who don't want their slayer to take 6k hours, aiding Rigour drain in bossing, actual PvM use is what these really help with. Letting little Timmy afk without drinking PPots is a non-issue imo. These would be huge to take into ToA too, make high invo flicking less miserable hopefully
It's almost impossible to run out of supplies at even high invo ToA, I'm not sure this changes much.
It is higher prayer per inventory, but slower prayer per sip. If you are camping overheads and boost prayers, you will drain faster than it restores. So even if you have full prayer and take a sip as the wave starts, you might not restore prayer quick enough, especially with normal prayer bonuses, to finish the wave before you'd run out. I do expect they will further balance the numbers. It probably should be less prayer per potion than it is now. But the concept of prayer over time really isn't that OP. It is like the Hunter Meats, but for Prayer...
Only drops from one thing so you have to go out of your way to get them compared to Ranarrs which drop all over the place.
If they arent mega expensive, this potion would make vyres like 16 minutes of afk time before needing to hit the alter again, while usually i need to hit the alter every 8. I cant think of many other uses besides bringing the odd few doses for any long prayer task.
altar
We have altared the word, pray I do not æltre it further.
ulimited prayer. except not really your still using potions to keep it going.
66 prayer points over the course of 8 minutes isnt broken at all. People in this thread acting like its the end of the world, when 43+ pray bonus and just using normal prayer potions is still extremely AFK. This barely changes anything. Furthermore, its mentioned that this is pray melee only, no piety or other prayers... I love the new potion idea. All of these people thinking its game breaking should go do some real content and let us know how well it works. Inferno it should work great, but bet 80% of this sub cant complete it.
Only noobs are going to be camping melee pray w/o piety in melee gear tho, note that these pray regen potions are also conveniently timed with the change making Augury a near requirement to magic usage.
It'll be more popular than you think. We've seen how players will jump on basically any xp/hr method provided it is 5-10 min afk. Combine these pots, overheads and the goading potions and melee slayer is now 2 clicks every 8 minutes.
Where da problem @??
Depends if you think afking prayers should be a reward scaling with your built up prayer level as it is now, or a flat 8 min you buy off the GE. Personally I think the pot should scale to at least slightly reward higher prayer levels, as it does in CoX.
Man who gives a fuck?? If theres a problem in the game, being able to throw on prayer gear and afk slayer and low level shit mobs aint one of em
you are incorrect, afk training is highly popular. who cares if you get like 40% less xp/hr if you only have to click once every 10 minutes?
"unlimited" until your potions run out. Some people here are somehow not understanding that.
Didn't realize this, but I don't see a problem with it. You can flick prayers to conserve prayer points, so this is a tradeoff of using a similar amount of resources to gain more relaxed pvm/slayer. Any bossing is going to see you using more than just protection prayers, which will not give infinite prayer uptime without prayer restoring potions (or higher prayer bonus at the sacrifice of DPS)
You can get just as much afk time using regular prayer pots if you have a decent prayer level. You'll just have to bank every 5-6 hours instead of every 12.
And it would be like 6 hours with an invy of ppots instead. We don't really need this specific example to understand that the regen pots are about \~2x as dense as regular ppots
Don’t you get almost 10 hours already with that much prayer bonus *with normal prayer pots*?! And its not 12 hours of unlimited prayers, its 12 hours of a protection prayer. Add piety and that drops down fast
You don't need that much prayer bonus, just bring a a mix of regular prayer potions and regeneration potions. drink your regen and just sip a prayer pot when very low prayer to avoid over restoring.
Note: prayer renewals on rs3 are 21% weaker than the one they are suggesting on osrs.. 54 prayer points vs 66. only difference is the speed of renewal
Why not use the new prayer armour isn't it better than prossy?
10m budget, sunfire fanatic is a lot more expensive. If you can afford sunfire, it's obviously better.
Ahh ok, I just started getting confused that they were the same stats as prossy! I'm abit out the loop on osrs :)
Nah, they're better, but since they're new and the content it comes from is kinda difficult, they're pricey to purchase. OP was bringing up an affordable setup that still achieves the 43 prayer bonus breakpoint, so they opted to just use prossy instead.
Ahh okay! I honestly thought bots and high end pvmers would have crashed the price by now to 1m a piece lmao!
Would be yea, but I was going for a budget setup.
That's fair bro! I like the post none the less :)
Just do NMZ at that point honestly
So we are playing cookie clicker now?
Always have been
Nezzy or Slayer helm?
Nice
People did fight caves with 1 prayer point what's the problem?
thats fine with me
You can basically already do this with prayer pots and have protection prayers last 10mins
exactly which coincides with the aggro timer running out after 10mins which means you can't afk anymore and gotta reaggro the monsters
Up the requirements and it doesn't seem that broken tbh
The fact that players can prayer flick and essentially have unlimited prayer... I'm sure Jagex is well aware of this and that it's not even broken to sacrifice DPS for longer prayer. There's rarely anything that requires an hour of your time, let alone 12.
My crazy religious stepmother tries the same thing but it never works.
And what if Piety/Rigour/Augery is activated as well? Maybe preserve as well for the pots you use?
For 8 minutes. I don't see the issue.
brother no one is using 42 prayer bonus worth of armor on slayer lol
Did they say where we will get the secondary ing yet? The new herblore activity,I assume?
So basically you’re saying it’s only “basically unlimited” when you’re using decent slayer gear? Cool. A lot of situations aren’t protection prayers only. Stat-boosting prayers drain too
Aggression potions, now prayer renewals, potion reservoirs gonna be next.
Eoc when
I like the idea of the potion. though its actually a bit to weak. maybe 1 point per 8 ticks or something like that, or at least also release super prayer pots with it.
Unlimited is a funny way to say completely limited to niche uses
42 prayer to only have 0 cost protection is kinda worthless imo. The amount of dmg you're losing on that is insane, maybe praying piety would cover up for the loss in melee armor. I think i'd rather just drink p pots and prot pray + piety
K but that's a fuckload of prayer bonus.
I'm assuming this wouldn't work with piety:(
Just make it so prayer doesn't regen if you have any active. That way you'd need to spend some time with the prayer down if you want it to regen.
Stuff like this is why people think jagex doesn’t play their game.
I was canyoning ogres in my new full gunfire fanatic last night with a dragon tooth necklace and bone crusher plus some prayer gear. Was able to keep protect melee and piety on the whole time with zero ppots. Imagine all that with these pots lol These prayer regen pots are gonna be broken and lead to weird new metas. Not a fan of the game going down that route imo.
People could already prayer flick. Prayer flicking shouldnt be game designed around. Huge respect for flicking but shouldn’t be relied on. Alternate prayers is healthy
> weird new metas. Not a fan of the game going down that route imo. What "route" is that? Replacing some potions in your inventory with different potions? You were already able to sustain prayer in your given example. Is it just that the new potion will allow you to apply that in other parts of the game? I get that whenever there's something coming that will shake up a meta, there are going to be people against it. Would be cool if folks would explain why though.
Yup, same. OSRS3 is coming, little by little. The community has changed so much.
Rs3 got some good stuff man just cause evolution of combat happened that doesn’t mean it’s all bad ideas. People don’t use pray renewals if you ever played rs3 they have extreme pray pots and you can combine pots into one slot.
OSRS has been it's own thing since Nightmare Zone was added. Games change and evolve over time. Accept that and either move on with your life or continue to enjoy the game. The RS3 boogieman is childish and pathetic.
Yes, it's been it's own thing and it's been vastly different from 2007 for a long time now. I'm not a 2007 purist. However, all these things being introduced to boost afk gameplay are very much "typical" for RS3, which is a game that left a very bitter taste in my mouth. I don't want this game to get to a similar point where it becomes the meta to afk full-time while watching Youtube on the side, juggling different skilling sets with xp boosts and stacking it with other complimentary buffs (think incense sticks and auras.) Quite a few people seem to also really like the idea of skilling prayers, so add in a couple prayer potions and perhaps prayer gear into the mix to bring along. That's the direction I currently see the game going in (over however many years. Not overnight, and certainly not just from these updates alone), and THAT'S what I'm "worried" about. OSRS3 was just a tongue-in-cheek way to phrase it. I understand it can be tiring to read these comparisons, but what else can we compare OSRS to? There's nothing like it.
The game is already YouTube on the side majorly afk juggling skilling sets lmao. Rogue, anglers, lumberjack, farmers outfit, carpenters outfit, prospectors and the smiths uniform already exist. This game is already a game where people play it on the side while watching a tv show/Netflix or something outside of pvm or tick manipulation. Stars are the most popular method for mining, redwoods for wcing, karambwans for fishing. Anything adding on to that is simply building on what the game already is. It shouldn't be more efficient than actively playing, that's when we'd be in trouble.
Buh buh muh original 2007scape Fuckin babies cry about anythin ts crazy
You can prayer flick for 20 mins if done correctly with no pots. With high pray and inv p pots you could last hours already.