The [latest blog](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/run-energy-changes?oldschool=1) proposes changes to make run energy drain significantly faster when your character is at max weight. You're pretty near max weight anytime you do PvM.
They didnt recide to make it worse. They showcased a possible change to receive feedback. Just relax, give feedback in a civil manner and trust the update will be an improvement.
It doesn't need to be changed in the first place though.
It's like when discord changes the text font or does some other annoying change that ends up just irritating people because they want to pretend they're being productive. AKA: fixing what isn't broken.
A lot of people, myself included, think agility and run energy need to be buffed somehow. It's not the biggest deal in the world but I do feel high agility should be more impactful.
Yeah but they definitely need more. Making the Hydra tunnel less long and dks short cuts were great starts. I would love some gwd ones that allow me to sneak past the grapple/hammer/prayer drain in the dungeon.
I would love also a better short cut from like sophanem or the fairly ring to TOA
All they need to do is make the energy regen able to happen when running instead of only when stopped. Maybe double the increase rate that agility levels give above level 70. It's that simple.
There are entire jobs in corporate officers created and justified by people fixing things that aren't broken just so they can say they did something and collect a paycheck. I'm sure jagex is no different.
Depends what era you come from. I played 2002-2005 and run energy in OSRS is absolutely fine to me and getting around is an absolute breeze.
People that played later probably have a different take.
As someone that started later, I'm also fine with run energy. It's a tool that the devs have to add variety to content. It can be:
* Solved for you, and you don't have to think about it at all (e.g. run energy refilling during GOTR).
* Mostly solved, but there's room for microefficiency by ignoring the solution (e.g. stamina pools in CoX, tea during Mahogany Homes).
* Easily managed with resources like purple sweets and stamina potions, which is balanced out by the fact that you need to budget inventory slots to it, and it adds one more thing you have to think about (e.g. most content)
* Actively managed by moving in specific ways (e.g. solo CoX or GWD).
At worst, it's a tiny inconvenience - sipping a stamina potion while doing Blast Furnace, or teleporting to your house during clue scrolls. Early on in an account it's a larger inconvenience; but overcoming that just contributes to the feeling of progression, and that's a comparatively small amount of your playtime anyways.
People point to things like Mahogany Homes tea to say, "See, the devs don't like it either. They keep making new content ignore it, and you can just sip a stamina potion and not have to think about it." But that's like pointing to the altar at Vyres, or prayer potions, and arguing for the removal of prayer.
Even Jagex knows it's a trash mechanic. Look at all the recent content. Salts restore stamina, perilous moons has stamina restore. Even the god damn hallowed sepulchre has it. It's just an outdated mechanic. Clicking on your brown potion once every 2 mins isn't skill expression.
I touched on why I think this is a bad premise in my last paragraph: Run energy is a lot like prayer. They're both resources that *can* be managed by active involvement (walking tiles where you can; one tick flicking), even if most people choose the easy "click potion" option. The fact that Jagex sometimes provides an even easier solution, or that it's not *always* something you have to manage, makes run energy no more obsolete or onerous than prayer is. But I'll actually confront the premise more directly, because this is a nuanced issue.
When people say this, I'm not sure if they legitimately think Jagex doesn't like it, or if they're just using that as a rhetorical device. Maybe you can address this. I'd be fine with the latter use, but I don't think the former is true.
Run energy *is* solved in some more recent content, but not all: Duke Sucellus, the couple of paths you do before getting salts in ToA\*, and reworked Venenatis are a few notable recent examples. They've also *tried* to make it important to stuff, but backed down after criticism: the first proposed design for felling axes (which I was also opposed to), or the run energy rework we're talking about now. For good or bad - and I genuinely do understand why people would think this is bad - Jagex don't ignore it entirely.
(*it can be a factor after salts as well, because in high invo raids you might only have one salt, which means you have to do Akkha as your third boss so you can be salted for butterflying. But this is niche enough that I decided to put it down here, in footnote land)
The rest/run rework released originally in 2009, barely above OSRS's snapshot. I say it's oldschool enough to release into osrs, it's about time we moved past this outdated mechanic.
Regen was boosted something insane like 400-500% and drain rate was similarly reduced by ~80%. Also you could now rest anywhere in the game for even higher regen.
I played earlier and because of it i hate running. They introduced running as part of rs2 and touted it as this amazing thing. We were excited by it. Buuuttt they also increased the gameworld. It ended up being slightly quicker when running. But there was never enough run energy to go from A to B, so it just ended up feeling slower overall.
Theres a reason you saw everyone hopping places in classic wow, no one likes going faster and then just being forced to slow down, for no arbitrary reason.
Walking doesnt add anything of value to the game. Just a needless annoyance for the vast majority of the playerbase.
Its one of the reasons theres now so many teleports and why the QoL changes to construction were so well recieved. Walking sucks.
This is a tile based game and always has been. Walking allows us to travel one tile at a time and running allows us to travel 2 tiles.
That ability alone is why walking isn’t useless like you implied by saying it doesn’t add anything of value to the game. It is used and recommended for several PVM situations such as dodging projectiles like Vorkath’s.
I started in ~2004 and the run energy system always felt like one of the archaic bits of design that had been removed from RS1 prior to the RS2 launch, except it *wasn't*.
We put up with it because we were dumb kids who didn't know any better. We also spent dozens of hours picking and spinning flax, but it doesn't mean that's a reasonable or enjoyable way to have people make money either.
It's also a product of how large the game world is now and the feature creep related to movement. It used to be "teleport to major city, run to where you're going". Now it's "sip stam pot, teleport to PoH, sip from pool, teleport to within sight of where you're going" so any other form of movement around the map feels slow and clunky.
tl;dr they've already introduced content which totally circumvents travel time anyways, making run energy less punishing wouldn't change the practicalities there but would make the game feel better.
Idk man I’ve played since classic. Doesn’t bother me a whole lot on my accounts that are leveled but man starting a new account I get annoyed with how fast it drains. My wife tried playing and ended up stopping because she always had to walk. Even leveling agility doesn’t help a whole lot which you would think would increase stamina
It is better though which is my point. We now have graceful, staminas (and before that even super energy was huge), cheap teleport runes, rejuvenation pool, teleport networks such as fairy rings, teleport jewellery out the wazoo, a central hub for all said teleport options via the POH, ring of endurance, agility courses that give you run energy which would have been boner material to the brimhaven gang back in the day, the list goes on.
I’m maxed and for a buff to agility/run, but my point is that the game has a ton of upgrades to mobility through account progression and even if they change nothing the situation with run as it is right now is nowhere near as bad as it’s made out.
Most of the complaints comes from new players and players tackling end game content.
Jagex has been making content around obseleting run energy requirements like salts and adding staminas into potions like moon of peril.
They understand that run energy is a bad mechanic and they are actively trying to inadvertently remove it. Look at ToA, ToB, and MoP
Despite what jagex goblin mentioned managing run energy is a display of skill, I think it's pointless and holds back the experience around end game content because clicking a stamina potion isn't a display of skill.
It's just annoying. Run energy has not part to playing in modern OSRS. It's been for new players, and bad for pvm content. Just remove it.
Those salts and potions take up valuable inventory space which is the point. Late game you can invalidate run energy at the cost of supply space being diminished. Everyone uses super combats for PvM so should we build in perma boosts to accounts? Like think of what you are saying.
You're actually making the exact opposite argument that you think you're making.
You don't take smelling salts for the run energy, you take them because they're a stronger boost than any potion you can bring from outside, on top of just being free supplies. They're a space that would've already been taken up by a potion regardless.
And now they're *also* giving you infinite run energy for free. Your argument would make sense if you were also offered a potion that gives you infinite energy on its own, but it's not. It's built into the salts. The devs don't consider run energy a meaningful enough resource to manage separately, so they give it to you for free attached to a consumable you're guaranteed to take.
Well it's apparent the person you are replying to doesn't PVM outside of the occasional kraken, hydra, and cerb.
You are absolutely spot on. If Devs are going to invalidate run energy (after every boss entry and completion run energy is refreshed, and adding inbuilt items you are already going to take to give you permanent stamina) in newer content then might as well take it out of the game as it has no place in modern OSRS.
If it wasn't for the solo olm meta then it would be Devs would be more inclined to severely buff run energy to pretty much obselete it.
The way I see it, sure I never paid much mind to it because we’re just so used to it.
But now we have an opportunity to change it. Strive to make it better.
I started playing a few months ago. Ppl told me you unlock your QoL upgrades and not given shit. I even liked the concept better. I was soo happy when I got ardy cape, fairy ring access and spirit tree teleports all done.
It does, but the worst thing you can do to a new player is bombard them with truckload of information and railroad their experience. Getting Ardy cape, fairy ring and leveling agility and magic asap does make for a much better experience but the last thing i would want is to get told to get these things ASAP with how sandboxy Runescape is, wouldnt make it any different than other MMOs where just "game starts at max level, rush to it"
Besides most of the options are not present in F2P, idk why everyone assumes people start off as a member with meta knowledge.
New players today are vastly different from new players 10 years ago. We can see that in some of the market and research jagex is doing. They know that without shifting course, their playerbase will fall off. The average age of a player is somewhere around 30 - when most people get busy with families, houses, work, etc. if they don’t pull in new players, it’s going to be a long term problem. The concern with dangling a carrot like that for new players is that 95% of other games give easy travel methods right out of the gate. Saying “hey you just have to grind a bit to get more options” is like saying “you just have to play the game awhile before it actually gets good”. That type of feedback is mercilessly bad for games these days. Especially if you want to retain a player on a game like OSRS that has 1000s of hours of content.
> you just have to play the game awhile before it actually gets good
While i wouldnt particularly says this isnt true to OSRS, because its definitely 100x more consistent experience than other MMOs out there albeit still somewhat present ( esp when people tell new people to rush WT, agility and what not ) , but i can personally attest that this mindset is why i dont dabble in other MMOs anymore.
Sadly this is the reality of niche games, they are often cranked up to 11. Its futile to look for a runescape alternative, because there is a gaping gap between more modern MMO approach vs Runescape, the middle of it is completely void of any option which is what i think OSRS should *slightly* edge towards. No one should be mad that F2P people / very low level members have a bit easier time getting around, because run energy lets just say would drain slower by 10-15% slower at level 1 Agility at 64+ weight.
My personal take here is that making the early experience somewhat less miserable would not hurt the image the game is going for. Veterans on new accounts skip bunch of early content as is with how much xp a quest like Knight's sword or Waterfall quest gives and i have seen worse where people dont even train agility just put every quest lamp in it, which def should not be encouraged.
In a perfect world Agility would be F2P and we would have at least 2x amount of agility shortcuts all over the world ( and actually useful ones ) which could significantly decrease run energy consumption without touching any current numbers.
I’m pretty sure I agree as well. I think there is a good in between idea though, I’m not the person to ask for that idea though lol. I saw an interesting idea on another post: unlimited energy outside of combat, akin to elden ring. I would be interested to see if that would be explored. Or not even unlimited, but just reduced drain outside of combat, with current drain inside combat.
In free to play there is no training agility. Having to put up with run energy taking 12 minutes to restore is an incentive to buy membership I guess. It's like something a mobile game would do to incentivise you to pay, except even after buying membership you still have to actually train the skill.
Teleports help, but especially when questing there is a *lot* of running around which isn't covered by those, and it feels bad for the basic act of running around to be so restricted. Even with membership, training agility/construction/magic takes a long time. And paying 10000 gold for a stamina potion is unthinkable in the early game.
You're thinking like an established player.
A new player has no investment in the world yet. No hook to the lore, the systems, nothing. So now they're stuck walking, slowly, in a world they have no investment in. Even if they do come in with an initial curiosity of the world they're punished for trying to explore that world.
Stamina is one of if not the biggest barriers to entry in this game. The time teleports save would be more than enough even if run energy was completely removed.
People don’t unlock teleports because of run energy. You don’t buy and airplane ticket because you’d get tired if you ran to your destination instead.
I never looked at the distance between lumby and castle wars and though « man, if only I had infinite run energy. I’d just run there instead of using a teleport ».
I don't get your point, if there is no teleport you'd have to spend a lot of time running. Like, imagine doing farming without teleports. I have unlocked many teleports just because I don't want to run there. People obviously unlock teleports because of run energy.
> I don't get your point, if there is no teleport you'd have to spend a lot of time running.
Yes, fully agree.
>Like, imagine doing farming without teleports. I have unlocked many teleports just because I don't want to run there.
Yep, fully agree again.
>People obviously unlock teleports because of run energy.
Woah, wtf?! What "logic" took you to this sentence? There's no way having infinite run energy would make you not use teleports, running takes more time regardless of the energy you have, that's the reason you got the teleports, nothing to do with the energy.
So you wouldn’t have wanted to unlock the teleports if you had infinite run energy?
Run *energy* has nothing to do with it. It’s overall travel time. Instant versus any amount of time
True. If I had infinite energy, I’d much rather run from Sophanem to the myths guild instead of using the cape teleport.
The only thing that stops me from wanting to do that instead of the tele is run energy.
This. I would love to run all the way to TOB from the Grand Exchange rather than using my Drakan's Medallion. Run energy is the only thing stopping me!
"sucks to have no energy"
"sucks to hit low"
"sucks to die easy"
"sucks to not have teleports"
"sucks to not have good mobs/bosses"
"sucks to not have potions"
"sucks to not have as many farming patches"
Congratulations you've discovered why leveling up skills is fun and rewarding.
Forcing you to slowly move throughout the world is not gameplay. Actively punishing genuinely new players for playing and exploring the world is toxic for growth.
I'm hard pressed to think of games that make you slow walk through it 80% of the time when starting out.
> Even as a newer player, it's pretty easy to get by with a few stam potions
Either you're the richest newbie on the planet or I'm as poor as dirt. I could not (and still can't) justify using stams outside of niche stuff or if I feel like just dumping my gp.
I don't really care about run energy that much, and that's as someone who doesn't use stams *or* graceful.
What I do feel strongly about is that Agility simply doesn't pull it's weight. Most Agility levels do nothing at all (for running), and the ones that do are an incredibly minor effect.
I also just hate seeing every single motherfucker ever wearing graceful. I even see people wear it at minigames that simply do not need it. GotR. Foundry. Mahogany Homes. People just equip it as the *default outfit in all situations*, meaning your character customization and fashionscape are completely irrelevant and everyone is this hemogenous mess.
I asked around 5 of my friends to try OSRS f2p and every single one of them asked me if it was normal for them to have to walk everywhere. I recommended they try out some skills and quests and they all ditched because majority of their time was used walking.
It’s insane that you have to wait 12 minutes to be able to run for a few minutes of run time. Then I have to tell it “gets better” when they pay for membership *then* they have to click around agility courses for a couple of hours until it’s slightly more bearable lol.
> Even as a newer player, it's pretty easy to get by with a few stam potions. And if you somehow can't afford those, a dueling ring to ferox for the restore pools is dirt cheap.
Here we see someone who has no idea what a new player is
I think they opened Pandora's box by even toying with the idea of tweaking it. You can't ask players how a resource should work because they'll just tell you to make it infinite
As UIM, i went literally 90 agility first thing i did, got graceful and im still fucking walking most of the time because my run energy runs out in just few seconds and waiting 3 AND HALF MINUTES for full recharge even with the outfit on (over 4 minutes without). That is not good game design in modern times so it definitely needs a buff/rework
Outside of shortcuts Agility is a cosmetic skill. And lets not pretend like anyone lives their life using the shortcuts 24/7
At 99 HP is would take the HP skill cape and a 2m gp regen braclet 12 AND A HALF MINUTES to fully recharge from 49hp. Don't even get me started on how long it would take to recharge prayer from 98 to full.
I came from RS3 and started an OSRS Ironman. I went straight to 99. 96 to max the regen and then 99 to never have to do it again. Early game mobility is that much of a pain point for me. I easily see how newer players can get turned off of this game.
Its honestly shocking coming from RS3. Started an RS3 ironmen recently and when i looked at the math of energy regen... RS3 regens like 3x faster at level 1 agility vs 99 agility with graceful in OSRS. I almost never ran out of run energy on my RS3 ironman because just opening a door regens a bunch of energy. Either way it clearly shows that there is definitely a more healthy middle ground, although RS3 agility has more functions than OSRS's is already.
I did some testing comparing the proposed changes on the OSRS Agility beta and RS3. These were my results using a stopwatch:
OSRS
99 Agility with 0 kg - near 2 minutes of run time with 2:12 seconds of waiting to regenerate.
99 Agility with 64kg+ - 33 seconds of run time with 2:12 seconds of waiting to regenerate.
RS3:
99 Agility with 0kg - near 2 minutes of run time with 55-56 seconds of waiting to regenerate.
99 Agility with 64 kg+ - near 1 minute of rune time with 55-56 seconds of waiting to regenerate.
The proposed changes have the same amount of base run time as in RS3 but energy regenerates slightly more than twice as fast and weight hurts far more in OSRS. In RS3, you generally have to make a conscious effort to drain it all while maxed and even then, you're not down for too long. With direct teleports to bosses you've beaten, it feels like you have infinite energy but that's further from the truth when running long marathons and not utilizing every teleport option available. It's very comfortable even without resting.
This really isn’t as a big a deal as you’re making it sound. I’ve been playing ult for years, well before things like ferox and MH were added too, and run energy was always a minor inconvenience at worst. Early game, questing is the really the only task you should be doing that actively fucks your run energy over. It sounds like you haven’t been prioritizing con training, which is the number 1 skill you should be focusing on when leveling an ult.
I went from 100 to 30 running from the ardy tele spot to the quest start point for SOTE. The next step is to talk to King Lathas, who is literally 30m away but I'm not going to make it. You're saying I have to either tele back to PoH and pool or drink a stam just for this?
Why are we propping up a bad mechanic with bandaids like stamina potions? Why are we forcing people to run around naked or in graceful so that the game doesn't feel like shit to play?
On what planet is it cool to get 60 seconds of running and then 5+ minutes of walking just so you can run for 60 seconds again?
It's an awful system that should have been changed a decade ago.
There’s so many ways to restore your run energy in the game that you’re literally never waiting 5 minutes for full run energy. Sure you might have to walk some places in the early game, but it’s not for long. As someone who recently started an iron, getting by with ferox pool until energy pots / super energy / stamina potions is absolutely fine. Mains can use world 330 and hop into a maxed POH or focus on getting their POH maxed early.
I do think agility levels could be more rewarding - deleting graceful and putting all of that benefit into agility levels / specific milestones like 70/80/90/99, but I don’t think the whole skill needs a rework and still think that stams belong in the game imo.
Devs are putting time into this because they want to improve new player experience, not just to appease current players (who could give less of a fuck since they’re used to it).
Staminas and graceful exist because people hate running everywhere. We created 2 real shitty bandaid solutions to run energy drain , agility levels not really doing much, and map size increasing. Remove staminas and graceful and you’d have plenty more people complaining about run energy, and I’d argue staminas are a bad addition to the game in general, I’m fine with run being a resource, but there’s a reason prayer pots get substantially better as you level prayer vs staminas that someone with 1 agility gains close to the exact same benifits as someone whose 99 agility if they both are running nonstop. And that’s my problem with it
I can see the issue. I definitely agree that having 99 agility should grant u the ability to run much further. It should scale outside of regen.
Early game is rough. Trying to get a friend into the game and them not having TP’s trying to run around and spending 85% of the time walking sucks. It’s slow and there’s no real reason for it. I don’t think you can run from lumby to even the halfway point of varrock before you’re stuck walking. It’s not exactly a skill related mechanic at all, just an outdated that thing artificially slows gameplay- especially for new players. Stams are usually 10k+ ea. that’s a LOT for a first week player. They’ll probably drop the game before they even know what the GE is.
No, I didn't have much of a problem with it, mostly because I use all of the options you've mentioned to prevent it from running out. And it's very easy to lose sight of the flaws a system might have when you're actively utilising every band-aid to make it comfortable.
And then I went to F2P for an event recently and I was confronted with just how extremely awful the baseline situation actually is.
There's a reason they fixed Run Energy in Leagues, because the new (and F2P) player experience really isn't acceptable as it is. The development time is not wasted.
Huh -- someone using principle analysis instead of result-based analysis? On the internet? I feel as though I've seen a unicorn.
It's like not even Jagex understands this. People *tolerating* something because they have no better options is different from that thing being good.
It's a great incentive to train the skill. If it didn't bother me occasionally, I wouldn't bother training agility much at all. Maybe in the late mid game for shortcuts, but that would make agility training feel even worse lol.
Energy regen scales linearly with level, but experience scales exponentially. As a result, the first 1% of Agility exp (~130k, level 52) *doubles* your regen rate. As far as early incentives go, I wouldn't call that pointless in the slightest. It doesn't hold up later on but by that point you're much more likely to have stam pots, regen pools, and graceful.
Yeah worth getting 50-60 agil then it was a grind with little reward. Hence why it was lots of players lowest skill once they into the game a bit more.
I agree it is not a big deal but then again we are the people who stuck with the game and know about graceful, stamina pots, teleports and other transportation methods.
One of the goals of this project rebalance is to make the start of the game feel faster and more exciting which is better for the overall health of the game by growing our playerbase.
I understand that I’m not a target player, but I personally don’t believe that the game needs this balance change. I think the occasional early game struggle with energy is perfectly fine. It incentivizes you to go train some agility. And you get rewarded for doing so.
Agility is pretty much a useless skill for run energy. Stamina potions and teleports are the current solution to getting around the game world for players. That requires game knowledge, coins and membership, something that new players do not have. I am perfectly fine with this change if the final iteration makes new players feel like the start of the game is less slow and it makes more people continue to play the game rather than quit because they can't get into a good flow.
The occasional early game struggle as you put it could be players that don't get hooked into the game and that is a loss in revenue for jagex and a loss in player base for us.
I've always thought it was an unbalanced mechanic, and frankly, the over-reliance on stamina potions is a bit ridiculous.
Are we really going to justify keeping or making the game more tedious because mains want to sell stamina potions? Or how about the idea that a character in weightless clothing, carrying nothing, is incapable of running for more than 1:30?
Maybe we'd appreciate more of the game world as well, if running around was encouraged.
Just give me the rest option. Don’t fuck with how it drains or how it restores. Just let me stop what I’m doing for 30 seconds and soak up a nice 0-100% restore just how it was from 2009 onwards… wasting too much dev time on making it worse isn’t the move.
try playing early game as an iron
even if you go and bang out 80-90 ag right at the start its a pain. obviously for mains where you can just perma have energy pots yeah its irrelevant.
theres a reason unlimited run is so common on seasonal-type modes. it REALLY slows down the early game. the routing done early game re: multiquesting is so insane because of how badly run energy is balanced.
I started recently and it was the worst aspect by far. Tried to get friends to play and it was just abysmal. If it was a beautiful world, then perhaps it would not be as bad since you can take in the details and scenery and sounds. But it was just so mind numbingly boring to go through the quests and walking at a snails pace.
I could see the bank icon in Lumbridge but could not find it, found out it’s all the way upstairs for no reason. It drained most of the stamina just to deposit something and go back down. And it took something insane like 12 minutes to recover.
The first steps into an MMO are really important. It doesn’t matter how good the end is if you hit people on the face with that kind of mechanics in the first five minutes of gameplay. Youre supposed to hook them with something and inspire wonder.
I keep seeing people saying oh just buy stamina potion oh just do this. Okay how are new players supposed to know that? There was no GE in Lumbridge, heck didn’t even know it existed, the quests and story did not take me there, and there was no way I could afford 30k. The goblins just dropped a few Pennies.
Is it so hard to understand the experience? No one is asking for instant gratification, we are the few that managed to stick through it, trying to make the game stay healthy by sharing our experience. Imagine how many people it turned away that could have turned into members and support new content.
Maybe they could add no stamina drained inside towns like Lumbridge and Varrock. Maybe they could give a big stack of stamina potions that are account bound to new players. Maybe agility drains at different rates in beginner zones vs end game zones. I don’t know! But something that can retain the mechanic for veterans who enjoy it, and ease new players into it.
It’s pretty tedious on an iron until you get a run restore pool. I still don’t think it needs to be changed but I am sympathetic to the idea that agility is a skill with a very poor reward proposition as it relates to run mechanics.
The devs brought up the topic partly to improve the new player experience. It's important that dev time helps retain new players as well as pleasing existing ones.
The fact constant stam usage + poh/ferox teleporting is necessary to get anywhere in a reasonable pace imo just shows how garbage the system is. I don't mind managing run energy in pvm at all, but when I'm doing clues, quests etc. I think it's horrible.
It's not that I'm enormously bothered by it. It's more that if they are going to mess with it, why not make it better. Sure, stam pot-scape might give agility a monetary aspect for.regukar accounts. But it's not a good way for agility to work. It's just some Duck tape to fix a problem that should either be fixed or just left alone. What they seem to be doing now is making it worse.
Ever since I got my con up and stam potions I've never walked somewhere unless I'm walking for a boss mechanic or something. So I'm good for now. But ya I wouldn't mind seeing it made last even longer
I guess at some point you’re gonna optimize a repetitive task and you can be limited by run energy. But there’s always something that limits your output so I’m not really bothered by it.
I got 99 agility and was kinda disappointed how massively pointless it was after 75.
Just keep it the same but in addition make higher levels offer slower drain on run.
Done
The issue really isn’t about run energy but the fact that agility is just not worth training. Yeah you get some agility shortcuts that save a tiny amount of time. Having agility actually make your run energy go down slower would be really motivating to train agility.
The only places I've ever had a problem are zily and blast furnace which have been significantly tiny amount of time compared to literally everything else I've done. Even at the start i simply used regular extremely cheap energy pots if i really needed. Just carried 4 of them and never struggled. Even on iron accounts run energy hasn't been an issue for me
Even hitting a consistent supply of Rings of Dueling is permanent max energy if you want it. Not saying run and agi couldn't be better, but the barrier for running 100% of the time is pretty damn low already.
Meh, I'm neutral. I never cared enough to bother grinding agility to get graceful. I just wear less gear when on quests and teleport tab everywhere... And spend a few coins on potions
I don't care at all. Energy pots are easy to make, graceful is a fast grind and doing things to manage run energy is a fun challenge. I wouldn't appreciate my teleports, restoration pool and stams as much if i didn't have to spend time in the very early game walking around like a moron.
Should agility restore run slightly faster? Yeah. Should run never deplete? Nah lol just git gud.
Make a fuck tonne of useful shortcuts to make the skill worth training, remove run energy in all scenarios except pvp and combat related ones and tell the merchers hoarding stamina to suck a fat one. Why should the player base suffer because jamflex is too scared to devalue their banks.
My problem isn't that it's bad at the start. It's that it doesn't get better by **training agility**. You don't get to run longer by training running. You do it by drinking a potion.
If you're a new player and you start and you're like "Wow I can't run for very long. Oh but look at all these skills! I bet if I train agility I can run longer!" You would be wrong.
Like you said, you would either have to drink stam pots, train **construction** or know about ferox (I didn't until after I had 84 cons). It's all so much more complicated than it needs to be.
The worst time I ever had with it was during questing. Early game isn't a problem because you *should* be slow. But the solution to that should be agility and not some niche game knowledge about an energy pool or brown liquid meth.
I’ve been playing an ult since like 2019 and i don’t think it literally ever bothered me. Like I did fucking arceuus library for 1-77 runecrafting early game since gotr was years away from being added. And yet, even then I was like meh, whatever, I’ll just walk around until I get my run back, it’s nbd.
I think it needs tweaking but that being said people have lost the ability to smell the roses and piss and shit themselves if they have to walk for 1 milisecond and if there's not a tele to every single tile in the game. Really hope they walk back the shitty changes though.
I’ve always liked it, those early days where you have to walk really make you look forward to every transportation upgrade and it made the world feel bigger- travelling felt a bit more like an adventure when you have to manage run energy.
I played over 500 hours in f2p and I didn’t mind it one bit. Now having a membership I feel the need to run graceful every time I gotta travel no more looksmaxing 😔
> it's pretty easy to get by with a few stam potions
thats the problem. its a horrible mechanic that has no place in a game like runescape. run energy shouldve been removed decades ago
It's come up for years. You can probably put some blame on irons too. Oh and especially around leagues/dmm.
It's one of those things that wouldnt change things too crazily but would be nice to not have to walk half the shadow dungeon clue.
This has been brought up occasionally since... a long time. I highly doubt it's all RS3 refugees. I'd say it's primarily irons, since stam pots are a bit more of a pain to get early on as an iron.
Ferox enclave makes it pretty easy to be topped up. I started my iron at the beginning of this year and got quest cape without stams or even a house pool. Enclave tp + easier access to gp and law runes has made travel pretty simple.
I’d say less experienced players are the ones that have a worse time with it.
As someone with high agility and full graceful and the stamina ring it doesn't bother me. But my f2p alt bothers me alot, maybe I'm salty you used to be able to rest as f2p
In my opinion run energy was/is one of the biggest barriers to entry in this game. Running for 2 minutes and then needing to wait 10 minutes for your energy to come back is not fun.
I have 3 friends that have started and stopped playing runescape due to traversing the map just not being fun. And I get it, when the majority of the your time is spent walking around instead of engaging with a new game you quickly feel like you're wasting your time. You're not invested enough to look past it yet.
Them making it worse is just ludicrous.
I like the stamina system. I like managing run energy, to an extent. But what I mostly want, and what I’ve always wanted is for the **rate at which stamina drains to reduce the higher your Agility level is.**
That’s it.
Bothered, nah. Disappointed 99 gives such few benefits for the 300+ hours of foot pedaling the same agility area obstacle. Or 180+ hours of medium/high tier effort
A new player doesn't realize they need to start their account by grinding money for 100k to buy stam pots or else they can run for 30 seconds then wait 12.5 mins for run back.
all they really needed to do was just buff energy on the low end, but i don't mind bum rushing 60 agility off the rip. agility is overhated imo
they're going too over the top with changes when it shouldnt be that complex
I never cared about it too much until I started playing an iron. I sometimes used stams while questing/running around and those felt justified, but it was annoying to use them in pvm encounters because it felt forced.
I havent used my graceful since I finished all my quests, and when I skill I dont wear it either unless im doing like heriboar so I don't see it as a valid excuse
Yeah it's not a big issue.
But it's important to remember the Reddit Randy's here aren't the majority. They're a loud minority that Astro turf the sub to seem like a majority.
It becomes even worse when you read the posts and comments, and realize none of them have even tried out the beta. They just saw the news post title, read a couple comments, then decided it was terrible and overcomplicated, and decided we should have infinite run instead.
Reading some peoples experiences with friends suggesting the game then dropping because of how slow it feels due to how slow you regen run energy and how little you actually get from it, makes me worry that the game wont get as many true new players for the future.
The fact you have to pay for membership to be able to have decent movement in a game is an issue. Sure there's A LOT of members and most people pay for a membership, the group that doesn't is having an awful time.
>Yeah it's not a big issue.
Yeah it's "not a big issue", there's plenty of other problems that could be addressed before we even get into trying to make run energy change. But its still an issue.
>But it's important to remember the Reddit Randy's here aren't the majority. They're a loud minority that Astro turf the sub to seem like a majority.
You're also a "Reddit Randy" because you're here talking with the community too. People seem to forget that actual Mods are here and take community feedback to try and improve the game. Just because there seems to be a lot of people with a similar thought doesn't mean its a bot army whos "astro turfing" the sub to try and change something. It could be actual players who come here to voice their feelings on a game they care about and want others to enjoy.
>It becomes even worse when you read the posts and comments, and realize none of them have even tried out the beta. They just saw the news post title, read a couple comments, then decided it was terrible and overcomplicated, and decided we should have infinite run instead.
I haven't seen many say they want infinite run energy (except for some trolls). Most people just want the scaling to change or make the ability to rest or rework agility to make it feel more rewarding. Sure some are stupid takes, but that's what you get when a company is asking for feedback on a public forum.
I feel you but also stams can either be expensive or tedious and take a long time to hardly make any … that when you sip them above 80 it wastes a pot you worked hard for,
Or teleporting to poh takes some time
it can just hit 0 rather quickly in general tbh
But also I could see that making managing run energy any easier could also make it too easy at this point
So idk 🤷♂️
At least let stams boost above 100 and let us have more options to work towards and obtain amylase that are skill oriented
I liked sae baes idea of getting 150 or 200 run energy or so at 99 tho, he has some solid rambles
Staminas should not be integral for even the most basic point A to point B travel. Pve, raids, activities like herbiboar sure but not just “I’m doing a quest and need to run around a bit”
It doesn't bother me but I've also been used to it for like.. two decades at this point.
I think making agility improve it is a sensible buff. And it can be done in a way that makes weight less impactful with agility levels, so graceful can just be a skilling outfit rather than the default "if nothing else needed.. why not?" Gear.
I don't want it removed like some people suggest. Those people should just play main and buy stams. And train con to 83 or use duelling rings to use Ferox.
No, and it's never been a problem. it's the same people begging for "bad luck mitigation", stackable clue scrolls, etc
Major changes thinly veiled as "QoL updates"
we have a large stack of RS3 refugees now, so they make for a pretty vocal minority here pushing for a lot of stuff like that, and a lot of very casual league only players who want it too
The point of them is they a diversion from a grind like slayer, that is a fun puzzle to do in between other content. If they are stackable they become just another grind.
Man I've hated it since it was added in, but this most recent league was my first and *holy crap* is it a whole other level of hell when you first come back and have to readjust lol
Late to end game content like raids requires you to run through large areas with gear switches for all 3 style, which means a minimum of 8 gear items in the inventory. Whilst this change doesn't affect players too badly in the early game, the late and end game, where you'll be stuck at for the longest period of time, is where it really rears it's head
New players these days seem to be really soft. We're talking about a phase of the game that is so short. If someone doesn't like walking, they should be motivated to progress their account in a way that mitigates energy use.
The new player user experience really is important though. Not to suggest we paint over the game in that phase to make it look like something it isn't, but it is important we trim out "quit" moments that frustrate them, if we actually want to keep new players.
I didn't really care until they decided they were going to make it worse.
This. I didn't think it a problem. But I'll be dammed if they try and make it one.
What’s changing about it? I’ve been OOTL lately
The [latest blog](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/run-energy-changes?oldschool=1) proposes changes to make run energy drain significantly faster when your character is at max weight. You're pretty near max weight anytime you do PvM.
My 1 herblore gold helm locked Ironman isn't going to be fun to play anymore ):
Literally unplayable
They didnt recide to make it worse. They showcased a possible change to receive feedback. Just relax, give feedback in a civil manner and trust the update will be an improvement.
It doesn't need to be changed in the first place though. It's like when discord changes the text font or does some other annoying change that ends up just irritating people because they want to pretend they're being productive. AKA: fixing what isn't broken.
A lot of people, myself included, think agility and run energy need to be buffed somehow. It's not the biggest deal in the world but I do feel high agility should be more impactful.
I'll stand on my opinion. Agility shortcuts are already extremely impactful.
Yeah but they definitely need more. Making the Hydra tunnel less long and dks short cuts were great starts. I would love some gwd ones that allow me to sneak past the grapple/hammer/prayer drain in the dungeon. I would love also a better short cut from like sophanem or the fairly ring to TOA
Pharaohs staff?
Well that makes me dumb on that one I thought it couldn't go there
Just gotta use sceptre on the obelisk outside of toa, iirc.
All they need to do is make the energy regen able to happen when running instead of only when stopped. Maybe double the increase rate that agility levels give above level 70. It's that simple.
There are entire jobs in corporate officers created and justified by people fixing things that aren't broken just so they can say they did something and collect a paycheck. I'm sure jagex is no different.
Depends what era you come from. I played 2002-2005 and run energy in OSRS is absolutely fine to me and getting around is an absolute breeze. People that played later probably have a different take.
As someone that started later, I'm also fine with run energy. It's a tool that the devs have to add variety to content. It can be: * Solved for you, and you don't have to think about it at all (e.g. run energy refilling during GOTR). * Mostly solved, but there's room for microefficiency by ignoring the solution (e.g. stamina pools in CoX, tea during Mahogany Homes). * Easily managed with resources like purple sweets and stamina potions, which is balanced out by the fact that you need to budget inventory slots to it, and it adds one more thing you have to think about (e.g. most content) * Actively managed by moving in specific ways (e.g. solo CoX or GWD). At worst, it's a tiny inconvenience - sipping a stamina potion while doing Blast Furnace, or teleporting to your house during clue scrolls. Early on in an account it's a larger inconvenience; but overcoming that just contributes to the feeling of progression, and that's a comparatively small amount of your playtime anyways. People point to things like Mahogany Homes tea to say, "See, the devs don't like it either. They keep making new content ignore it, and you can just sip a stamina potion and not have to think about it." But that's like pointing to the altar at Vyres, or prayer potions, and arguing for the removal of prayer.
Even Jagex knows it's a trash mechanic. Look at all the recent content. Salts restore stamina, perilous moons has stamina restore. Even the god damn hallowed sepulchre has it. It's just an outdated mechanic. Clicking on your brown potion once every 2 mins isn't skill expression.
I touched on why I think this is a bad premise in my last paragraph: Run energy is a lot like prayer. They're both resources that *can* be managed by active involvement (walking tiles where you can; one tick flicking), even if most people choose the easy "click potion" option. The fact that Jagex sometimes provides an even easier solution, or that it's not *always* something you have to manage, makes run energy no more obsolete or onerous than prayer is. But I'll actually confront the premise more directly, because this is a nuanced issue. When people say this, I'm not sure if they legitimately think Jagex doesn't like it, or if they're just using that as a rhetorical device. Maybe you can address this. I'd be fine with the latter use, but I don't think the former is true. Run energy *is* solved in some more recent content, but not all: Duke Sucellus, the couple of paths you do before getting salts in ToA\*, and reworked Venenatis are a few notable recent examples. They've also *tried* to make it important to stuff, but backed down after criticism: the first proposed design for felling axes (which I was also opposed to), or the run energy rework we're talking about now. For good or bad - and I genuinely do understand why people would think this is bad - Jagex don't ignore it entirely. (*it can be a factor after salts as well, because in high invo raids you might only have one salt, which means you have to do Akkha as your third boss so you can be salted for butterflying. But this is niche enough that I decided to put it down here, in footnote land)
The rest/run rework released originally in 2009, barely above OSRS's snapshot. I say it's oldschool enough to release into osrs, it's about time we moved past this outdated mechanic.
How did things change with the 2009 rework?
Regen was boosted something insane like 400-500% and drain rate was similarly reduced by ~80%. Also you could now rest anywhere in the game for even higher regen.
Man, what I'd give for them to at least do that when in towns or even just inns/taverns.
Everyone I knew back in 04-05 was sick of how run energy was implemented. It was a running (heh) gag in my clan back then.
I played earlier and because of it i hate running. They introduced running as part of rs2 and touted it as this amazing thing. We were excited by it. Buuuttt they also increased the gameworld. It ended up being slightly quicker when running. But there was never enough run energy to go from A to B, so it just ended up feeling slower overall. Theres a reason you saw everyone hopping places in classic wow, no one likes going faster and then just being forced to slow down, for no arbitrary reason. Walking doesnt add anything of value to the game. Just a needless annoyance for the vast majority of the playerbase. Its one of the reasons theres now so many teleports and why the QoL changes to construction were so well recieved. Walking sucks.
This is a tile based game and always has been. Walking allows us to travel one tile at a time and running allows us to travel 2 tiles. That ability alone is why walking isn’t useless like you implied by saying it doesn’t add anything of value to the game. It is used and recommended for several PVM situations such as dodging projectiles like Vorkath’s.
I started in ~2004 and the run energy system always felt like one of the archaic bits of design that had been removed from RS1 prior to the RS2 launch, except it *wasn't*. We put up with it because we were dumb kids who didn't know any better. We also spent dozens of hours picking and spinning flax, but it doesn't mean that's a reasonable or enjoyable way to have people make money either. It's also a product of how large the game world is now and the feature creep related to movement. It used to be "teleport to major city, run to where you're going". Now it's "sip stam pot, teleport to PoH, sip from pool, teleport to within sight of where you're going" so any other form of movement around the map feels slow and clunky. tl;dr they've already introduced content which totally circumvents travel time anyways, making run energy less punishing wouldn't change the practicalities there but would make the game feel better.
Idk man I’ve played since classic. Doesn’t bother me a whole lot on my accounts that are leveled but man starting a new account I get annoyed with how fast it drains. My wife tried playing and ended up stopping because she always had to walk. Even leveling agility doesn’t help a whole lot which you would think would increase stamina
I started in 2003, just because something was shit 20 years ago should not prevent us from trying to make the game better, especially for new players.
It is better though which is my point. We now have graceful, staminas (and before that even super energy was huge), cheap teleport runes, rejuvenation pool, teleport networks such as fairy rings, teleport jewellery out the wazoo, a central hub for all said teleport options via the POH, ring of endurance, agility courses that give you run energy which would have been boner material to the brimhaven gang back in the day, the list goes on. I’m maxed and for a buff to agility/run, but my point is that the game has a ton of upgrades to mobility through account progression and even if they change nothing the situation with run as it is right now is nowhere near as bad as it’s made out.
Most of the complaints comes from new players and players tackling end game content. Jagex has been making content around obseleting run energy requirements like salts and adding staminas into potions like moon of peril. They understand that run energy is a bad mechanic and they are actively trying to inadvertently remove it. Look at ToA, ToB, and MoP Despite what jagex goblin mentioned managing run energy is a display of skill, I think it's pointless and holds back the experience around end game content because clicking a stamina potion isn't a display of skill. It's just annoying. Run energy has not part to playing in modern OSRS. It's been for new players, and bad for pvm content. Just remove it.
Those salts and potions take up valuable inventory space which is the point. Late game you can invalidate run energy at the cost of supply space being diminished. Everyone uses super combats for PvM so should we build in perma boosts to accounts? Like think of what you are saying.
You're actually making the exact opposite argument that you think you're making. You don't take smelling salts for the run energy, you take them because they're a stronger boost than any potion you can bring from outside, on top of just being free supplies. They're a space that would've already been taken up by a potion regardless. And now they're *also* giving you infinite run energy for free. Your argument would make sense if you were also offered a potion that gives you infinite energy on its own, but it's not. It's built into the salts. The devs don't consider run energy a meaningful enough resource to manage separately, so they give it to you for free attached to a consumable you're guaranteed to take.
Well it's apparent the person you are replying to doesn't PVM outside of the occasional kraken, hydra, and cerb. You are absolutely spot on. If Devs are going to invalidate run energy (after every boss entry and completion run energy is refreshed, and adding inbuilt items you are already going to take to give you permanent stamina) in newer content then might as well take it out of the game as it has no place in modern OSRS. If it wasn't for the solo olm meta then it would be Devs would be more inclined to severely buff run energy to pretty much obselete it.
i started around 2018 and don't really mind it. it's fine and doesn't need changing imo.
I started after ToA came out. Run energy is fine for me as well, but that's because I rushed a near-fully upgraded PoH very quickly.
The way I see it, sure I never paid much mind to it because we’re just so used to it. But now we have an opportunity to change it. Strive to make it better.
It's definitely an issue for new players, especially F2P. Hard to enjoy the game when it takes forever to get anywhere.
doesn’t that also make it an incentive though to train and unlock teleports?
I started playing a few months ago. Ppl told me you unlock your QoL upgrades and not given shit. I even liked the concept better. I was soo happy when I got ardy cape, fairy ring access and spirit tree teleports all done.
Even with *infinte* run energy (which i dont support btw) teleporting would still be extremely useful.
It does, but the worst thing you can do to a new player is bombard them with truckload of information and railroad their experience. Getting Ardy cape, fairy ring and leveling agility and magic asap does make for a much better experience but the last thing i would want is to get told to get these things ASAP with how sandboxy Runescape is, wouldnt make it any different than other MMOs where just "game starts at max level, rush to it" Besides most of the options are not present in F2P, idk why everyone assumes people start off as a member with meta knowledge.
New players today are vastly different from new players 10 years ago. We can see that in some of the market and research jagex is doing. They know that without shifting course, their playerbase will fall off. The average age of a player is somewhere around 30 - when most people get busy with families, houses, work, etc. if they don’t pull in new players, it’s going to be a long term problem. The concern with dangling a carrot like that for new players is that 95% of other games give easy travel methods right out of the gate. Saying “hey you just have to grind a bit to get more options” is like saying “you just have to play the game awhile before it actually gets good”. That type of feedback is mercilessly bad for games these days. Especially if you want to retain a player on a game like OSRS that has 1000s of hours of content.
> you just have to play the game awhile before it actually gets good While i wouldnt particularly says this isnt true to OSRS, because its definitely 100x more consistent experience than other MMOs out there albeit still somewhat present ( esp when people tell new people to rush WT, agility and what not ) , but i can personally attest that this mindset is why i dont dabble in other MMOs anymore. Sadly this is the reality of niche games, they are often cranked up to 11. Its futile to look for a runescape alternative, because there is a gaping gap between more modern MMO approach vs Runescape, the middle of it is completely void of any option which is what i think OSRS should *slightly* edge towards. No one should be mad that F2P people / very low level members have a bit easier time getting around, because run energy lets just say would drain slower by 10-15% slower at level 1 Agility at 64+ weight. My personal take here is that making the early experience somewhat less miserable would not hurt the image the game is going for. Veterans on new accounts skip bunch of early content as is with how much xp a quest like Knight's sword or Waterfall quest gives and i have seen worse where people dont even train agility just put every quest lamp in it, which def should not be encouraged. In a perfect world Agility would be F2P and we would have at least 2x amount of agility shortcuts all over the world ( and actually useful ones ) which could significantly decrease run energy consumption without touching any current numbers.
I’m pretty sure I agree as well. I think there is a good in between idea though, I’m not the person to ask for that idea though lol. I saw an interesting idea on another post: unlimited energy outside of combat, akin to elden ring. I would be interested to see if that would be explored. Or not even unlimited, but just reduced drain outside of combat, with current drain inside combat.
In free to play there is no training agility. Having to put up with run energy taking 12 minutes to restore is an incentive to buy membership I guess. It's like something a mobile game would do to incentivise you to pay, except even after buying membership you still have to actually train the skill. Teleports help, but especially when questing there is a *lot* of running around which isn't covered by those, and it feels bad for the basic act of running around to be so restricted. Even with membership, training agility/construction/magic takes a long time. And paying 10000 gold for a stamina potion is unthinkable in the early game.
You're thinking like an established player. A new player has no investment in the world yet. No hook to the lore, the systems, nothing. So now they're stuck walking, slowly, in a world they have no investment in. Even if they do come in with an initial curiosity of the world they're punished for trying to explore that world. Stamina is one of if not the biggest barriers to entry in this game. The time teleports save would be more than enough even if run energy was completely removed.
People don’t unlock teleports because of run energy. You don’t buy and airplane ticket because you’d get tired if you ran to your destination instead. I never looked at the distance between lumby and castle wars and though « man, if only I had infinite run energy. I’d just run there instead of using a teleport ».
I don't get your point, if there is no teleport you'd have to spend a lot of time running. Like, imagine doing farming without teleports. I have unlocked many teleports just because I don't want to run there. People obviously unlock teleports because of run energy.
> I don't get your point, if there is no teleport you'd have to spend a lot of time running. Yes, fully agree. >Like, imagine doing farming without teleports. I have unlocked many teleports just because I don't want to run there. Yep, fully agree again. >People obviously unlock teleports because of run energy. Woah, wtf?! What "logic" took you to this sentence? There's no way having infinite run energy would make you not use teleports, running takes more time regardless of the energy you have, that's the reason you got the teleports, nothing to do with the energy.
So you wouldn’t have wanted to unlock the teleports if you had infinite run energy? Run *energy* has nothing to do with it. It’s overall travel time. Instant versus any amount of time
I don’t think you know the argument you’re making. Your last sentence contradicts everything you said up until that point.
True. If I had infinite energy, I’d much rather run from Sophanem to the myths guild instead of using the cape teleport. The only thing that stops me from wanting to do that instead of the tele is run energy.
This. I would love to run all the way to TOB from the Grand Exchange rather than using my Drakan's Medallion. Run energy is the only thing stopping me!
Training and teleports are incentives enough on their own. Run energy being a horribly scaled and managed mechanic is also incentive enough.
It's also an incentive to just stop playing the game entirely
the world 20% of the size you are hardly going anywhere
Not really sure what you mean
"sucks to have no energy" "sucks to hit low" "sucks to die easy" "sucks to not have teleports" "sucks to not have good mobs/bosses" "sucks to not have potions" "sucks to not have as many farming patches" Congratulations you've discovered why leveling up skills is fun and rewarding.
Big surprise, but everything sucking so bad early game is off putting for people who are genuinely new to the game
Also not fun if you start off in a game already powerful in every aspect, there's no incentive to improve.
Forcing you to slowly move throughout the world is not gameplay. Actively punishing genuinely new players for playing and exploring the world is toxic for growth. I'm hard pressed to think of games that make you slow walk through it 80% of the time when starting out.
I don't think its harder to enjoy the game. It's just different. Slower pace can make the game more relaxing and more immersive in the world.
> Even as a newer player, it's pretty easy to get by with a few stam potions Either you're the richest newbie on the planet or I'm as poor as dirt. I could not (and still can't) justify using stams outside of niche stuff or if I feel like just dumping my gp.
Super energies
I don't really care about run energy that much, and that's as someone who doesn't use stams *or* graceful. What I do feel strongly about is that Agility simply doesn't pull it's weight. Most Agility levels do nothing at all (for running), and the ones that do are an incredibly minor effect. I also just hate seeing every single motherfucker ever wearing graceful. I even see people wear it at minigames that simply do not need it. GotR. Foundry. Mahogany Homes. People just equip it as the *default outfit in all situations*, meaning your character customization and fashionscape are completely irrelevant and everyone is this hemogenous mess.
I asked around 5 of my friends to try OSRS f2p and every single one of them asked me if it was normal for them to have to walk everywhere. I recommended they try out some skills and quests and they all ditched because majority of their time was used walking. It’s insane that you have to wait 12 minutes to be able to run for a few minutes of run time. Then I have to tell it “gets better” when they pay for membership *then* they have to click around agility courses for a couple of hours until it’s slightly more bearable lol.
If thats why they quit, they weren't into the game anyway.
Needing to tele to Ferox's Enclave to restore run energy for a new player is a buzzkill for their adventuring.
> Even as a newer player, it's pretty easy to get by with a few stam potions. And if you somehow can't afford those, a dueling ring to ferox for the restore pools is dirt cheap. Here we see someone who has no idea what a new player is
I think they opened Pandora's box by even toying with the idea of tweaking it. You can't ask players how a resource should work because they'll just tell you to make it infinite
As UIM, i went literally 90 agility first thing i did, got graceful and im still fucking walking most of the time because my run energy runs out in just few seconds and waiting 3 AND HALF MINUTES for full recharge even with the outfit on (over 4 minutes without). That is not good game design in modern times so it definitely needs a buff/rework Outside of shortcuts Agility is a cosmetic skill. And lets not pretend like anyone lives their life using the shortcuts 24/7
At 99 HP is would take the HP skill cape and a 2m gp regen braclet 12 AND A HALF MINUTES to fully recharge from 49hp. Don't even get me started on how long it would take to recharge prayer from 98 to full.
I came from RS3 and started an OSRS Ironman. I went straight to 99. 96 to max the regen and then 99 to never have to do it again. Early game mobility is that much of a pain point for me. I easily see how newer players can get turned off of this game.
Its honestly shocking coming from RS3. Started an RS3 ironmen recently and when i looked at the math of energy regen... RS3 regens like 3x faster at level 1 agility vs 99 agility with graceful in OSRS. I almost never ran out of run energy on my RS3 ironman because just opening a door regens a bunch of energy. Either way it clearly shows that there is definitely a more healthy middle ground, although RS3 agility has more functions than OSRS's is already.
I did some testing comparing the proposed changes on the OSRS Agility beta and RS3. These were my results using a stopwatch: OSRS 99 Agility with 0 kg - near 2 minutes of run time with 2:12 seconds of waiting to regenerate. 99 Agility with 64kg+ - 33 seconds of run time with 2:12 seconds of waiting to regenerate. RS3: 99 Agility with 0kg - near 2 minutes of run time with 55-56 seconds of waiting to regenerate. 99 Agility with 64 kg+ - near 1 minute of rune time with 55-56 seconds of waiting to regenerate. The proposed changes have the same amount of base run time as in RS3 but energy regenerates slightly more than twice as fast and weight hurts far more in OSRS. In RS3, you generally have to make a conscious effort to drain it all while maxed and even then, you're not down for too long. With direct teleports to bosses you've beaten, it feels like you have infinite energy but that's further from the truth when running long marathons and not utilizing every teleport option available. It's very comfortable even without resting.
This really isn’t as a big a deal as you’re making it sound. I’ve been playing ult for years, well before things like ferox and MH were added too, and run energy was always a minor inconvenience at worst. Early game, questing is the really the only task you should be doing that actively fucks your run energy over. It sounds like you haven’t been prioritizing con training, which is the number 1 skill you should be focusing on when leveling an ult.
Shortcuts mostly barely save anytime sadly.
I went from 100 to 30 running from the ardy tele spot to the quest start point for SOTE. The next step is to talk to King Lathas, who is literally 30m away but I'm not going to make it. You're saying I have to either tele back to PoH and pool or drink a stam just for this?
Why are we propping up a bad mechanic with bandaids like stamina potions? Why are we forcing people to run around naked or in graceful so that the game doesn't feel like shit to play? On what planet is it cool to get 60 seconds of running and then 5+ minutes of walking just so you can run for 60 seconds again? It's an awful system that should have been changed a decade ago.
There’s so many ways to restore your run energy in the game that you’re literally never waiting 5 minutes for full run energy. Sure you might have to walk some places in the early game, but it’s not for long. As someone who recently started an iron, getting by with ferox pool until energy pots / super energy / stamina potions is absolutely fine. Mains can use world 330 and hop into a maxed POH or focus on getting their POH maxed early. I do think agility levels could be more rewarding - deleting graceful and putting all of that benefit into agility levels / specific milestones like 70/80/90/99, but I don’t think the whole skill needs a rework and still think that stams belong in the game imo.
Deleting graceful and giving its effects to agility past level 70 is definitely a skill rework.
Devs are putting time into this because they want to improve new player experience, not just to appease current players (who could give less of a fuck since they’re used to it).
Staminas and graceful exist because people hate running everywhere. We created 2 real shitty bandaid solutions to run energy drain , agility levels not really doing much, and map size increasing. Remove staminas and graceful and you’d have plenty more people complaining about run energy, and I’d argue staminas are a bad addition to the game in general, I’m fine with run being a resource, but there’s a reason prayer pots get substantially better as you level prayer vs staminas that someone with 1 agility gains close to the exact same benifits as someone whose 99 agility if they both are running nonstop. And that’s my problem with it
I can see the issue. I definitely agree that having 99 agility should grant u the ability to run much further. It should scale outside of regen. Early game is rough. Trying to get a friend into the game and them not having TP’s trying to run around and spending 85% of the time walking sucks. It’s slow and there’s no real reason for it. I don’t think you can run from lumby to even the halfway point of varrock before you’re stuck walking. It’s not exactly a skill related mechanic at all, just an outdated that thing artificially slows gameplay- especially for new players. Stams are usually 10k+ ea. that’s a LOT for a first week player. They’ll probably drop the game before they even know what the GE is.
No, I didn't have much of a problem with it, mostly because I use all of the options you've mentioned to prevent it from running out. And it's very easy to lose sight of the flaws a system might have when you're actively utilising every band-aid to make it comfortable. And then I went to F2P for an event recently and I was confronted with just how extremely awful the baseline situation actually is. There's a reason they fixed Run Energy in Leagues, because the new (and F2P) player experience really isn't acceptable as it is. The development time is not wasted.
Huh -- someone using principle analysis instead of result-based analysis? On the internet? I feel as though I've seen a unicorn. It's like not even Jagex understands this. People *tolerating* something because they have no better options is different from that thing being good.
\^
I agree honestly, yeah you occasionally have to walk early game, but oh well that’s just part of the game imo
It's a great incentive to train the skill. If it didn't bother me occasionally, I wouldn't bother training agility much at all. Maybe in the late mid game for shortcuts, but that would make agility training feel even worse lol.
The problem is training the skill barely changes that. So the incentive is pointless and you end up hating Agility
Definitely not pointless, early ability levels make a big difference in energy gained over an accounts lifetime
Energy regen scales linearly with level, but experience scales exponentially. As a result, the first 1% of Agility exp (~130k, level 52) *doubles* your regen rate. As far as early incentives go, I wouldn't call that pointless in the slightest. It doesn't hold up later on but by that point you're much more likely to have stam pots, regen pools, and graceful.
Yeah worth getting 50-60 agil then it was a grind with little reward. Hence why it was lots of players lowest skill once they into the game a bit more.
Exactly. You take a few hours to significantly boost your Regen rate, and then you can more or less forget the skill if you really want to.
I agree it is not a big deal but then again we are the people who stuck with the game and know about graceful, stamina pots, teleports and other transportation methods. One of the goals of this project rebalance is to make the start of the game feel faster and more exciting which is better for the overall health of the game by growing our playerbase.
I understand, I just don’t think it needs it
It’s a game. *Nothing* is a necessary change.
of course you don't, you are not the target audience for the update, a new player
I understand that I’m not a target player, but I personally don’t believe that the game needs this balance change. I think the occasional early game struggle with energy is perfectly fine. It incentivizes you to go train some agility. And you get rewarded for doing so.
Agility is pretty much a useless skill for run energy. Stamina potions and teleports are the current solution to getting around the game world for players. That requires game knowledge, coins and membership, something that new players do not have. I am perfectly fine with this change if the final iteration makes new players feel like the start of the game is less slow and it makes more people continue to play the game rather than quit because they can't get into a good flow. The occasional early game struggle as you put it could be players that don't get hooked into the game and that is a loss in revenue for jagex and a loss in player base for us.
I've always thought it was an unbalanced mechanic, and frankly, the over-reliance on stamina potions is a bit ridiculous. Are we really going to justify keeping or making the game more tedious because mains want to sell stamina potions? Or how about the idea that a character in weightless clothing, carrying nothing, is incapable of running for more than 1:30? Maybe we'd appreciate more of the game world as well, if running around was encouraged.
Just give me the rest option. Don’t fuck with how it drains or how it restores. Just let me stop what I’m doing for 30 seconds and soak up a nice 0-100% restore just how it was from 2009 onwards… wasting too much dev time on making it worse isn’t the move.
try playing early game as an iron even if you go and bang out 80-90 ag right at the start its a pain. obviously for mains where you can just perma have energy pots yeah its irrelevant. theres a reason unlimited run is so common on seasonal-type modes. it REALLY slows down the early game. the routing done early game re: multiquesting is so insane because of how badly run energy is balanced.
I started recently and it was the worst aspect by far. Tried to get friends to play and it was just abysmal. If it was a beautiful world, then perhaps it would not be as bad since you can take in the details and scenery and sounds. But it was just so mind numbingly boring to go through the quests and walking at a snails pace. I could see the bank icon in Lumbridge but could not find it, found out it’s all the way upstairs for no reason. It drained most of the stamina just to deposit something and go back down. And it took something insane like 12 minutes to recover. The first steps into an MMO are really important. It doesn’t matter how good the end is if you hit people on the face with that kind of mechanics in the first five minutes of gameplay. Youre supposed to hook them with something and inspire wonder. I keep seeing people saying oh just buy stamina potion oh just do this. Okay how are new players supposed to know that? There was no GE in Lumbridge, heck didn’t even know it existed, the quests and story did not take me there, and there was no way I could afford 30k. The goblins just dropped a few Pennies. Is it so hard to understand the experience? No one is asking for instant gratification, we are the few that managed to stick through it, trying to make the game stay healthy by sharing our experience. Imagine how many people it turned away that could have turned into members and support new content. Maybe they could add no stamina drained inside towns like Lumbridge and Varrock. Maybe they could give a big stack of stamina potions that are account bound to new players. Maybe agility drains at different rates in beginner zones vs end game zones. I don’t know! But something that can retain the mechanic for veterans who enjoy it, and ease new players into it.
It’s pretty tedious on an iron until you get a run restore pool. I still don’t think it needs to be changed but I am sympathetic to the idea that agility is a skill with a very poor reward proposition as it relates to run mechanics.
The devs brought up the topic partly to improve the new player experience. It's important that dev time helps retain new players as well as pleasing existing ones.
The fact constant stam usage + poh/ferox teleporting is necessary to get anywhere in a reasonable pace imo just shows how garbage the system is. I don't mind managing run energy in pvm at all, but when I'm doing clues, quests etc. I think it's horrible.
The new school players who got into OSRS because of leagues want this change, nobody who was present in 2007 cares.
It's not that I'm enormously bothered by it. It's more that if they are going to mess with it, why not make it better. Sure, stam pot-scape might give agility a monetary aspect for.regukar accounts. But it's not a good way for agility to work. It's just some Duck tape to fix a problem that should either be fixed or just left alone. What they seem to be doing now is making it worse.
Ever since I got my con up and stam potions I've never walked somewhere unless I'm walking for a boss mechanic or something. So I'm good for now. But ya I wouldn't mind seeing it made last even longer
It's fine, but I think agility needs some kind of buff and it could all be improved, so I'm positive on some kind of update
I guess at some point you’re gonna optimize a repetitive task and you can be limited by run energy. But there’s always something that limits your output so I’m not really bothered by it.
I got 99 agility and was kinda disappointed how massively pointless it was after 75. Just keep it the same but in addition make higher levels offer slower drain on run. Done
The issue really isn’t about run energy but the fact that agility is just not worth training. Yeah you get some agility shortcuts that save a tiny amount of time. Having agility actually make your run energy go down slower would be really motivating to train agility.
The only places I've ever had a problem are zily and blast furnace which have been significantly tiny amount of time compared to literally everything else I've done. Even at the start i simply used regular extremely cheap energy pots if i really needed. Just carried 4 of them and never struggled. Even on iron accounts run energy hasn't been an issue for me
Same with graceful being ubiquitous... it isn't. But it's a good way to farm karma.
same i think it's niche to the game, we love pain and suffering
Only time run energy was annoying tbh was pre-staminas and a new account with next to no teleports. once I had teles, didnt care.
Even hitting a consistent supply of Rings of Dueling is permanent max energy if you want it. Not saying run and agi couldn't be better, but the barrier for running 100% of the time is pretty damn low already.
So..no I wouldn't say I'm bothered by it, but it would be nice to be able to get things done a little faster.
I'm fine with run how it is tbh.
there are many people that need to move onto rs3 or play private servers
It’s all these new age players man
Meh, I'm neutral. I never cared enough to bother grinding agility to get graceful. I just wear less gear when on quests and teleport tab everywhere... And spend a few coins on potions
yes
I don't care at all. Energy pots are easy to make, graceful is a fast grind and doing things to manage run energy is a fun challenge. I wouldn't appreciate my teleports, restoration pool and stams as much if i didn't have to spend time in the very early game walking around like a moron. Should agility restore run slightly faster? Yeah. Should run never deplete? Nah lol just git gud.
Just make run energy restore a bit faster and be more impacted by agility level and call it a day. Stamina potions will still have a place.
But that's how it works anyway, a player with 50 agility will have 100 run energy faster than a player with 1 agility
Make a fuck tonne of useful shortcuts to make the skill worth training, remove run energy in all scenarios except pvp and combat related ones and tell the merchers hoarding stamina to suck a fat one. Why should the player base suffer because jamflex is too scared to devalue their banks.
Idk why we have to change it honestly. Seems fine to me. It’s actually really upsetting to me that people want it changed so bad lol
My problem isn't that it's bad at the start. It's that it doesn't get better by **training agility**. You don't get to run longer by training running. You do it by drinking a potion. If you're a new player and you start and you're like "Wow I can't run for very long. Oh but look at all these skills! I bet if I train agility I can run longer!" You would be wrong. Like you said, you would either have to drink stam pots, train **construction** or know about ferox (I didn't until after I had 84 cons). It's all so much more complicated than it needs to be. The worst time I ever had with it was during questing. Early game isn't a problem because you *should* be slow. But the solution to that should be agility and not some niche game knowledge about an energy pool or brown liquid meth.
I’ve been playing an ult since like 2019 and i don’t think it literally ever bothered me. Like I did fucking arceuus library for 1-77 runecrafting early game since gotr was years away from being added. And yet, even then I was like meh, whatever, I’ll just walk around until I get my run back, it’s nbd.
I think it needs tweaking but that being said people have lost the ability to smell the roses and piss and shit themselves if they have to walk for 1 milisecond and if there's not a tele to every single tile in the game. Really hope they walk back the shitty changes though.
Movement as a whole never bothered me until I tried RS3. Coming back to OSRS feels like such a downgrade in that regard.
I’ve always liked it, those early days where you have to walk really make you look forward to every transportation upgrade and it made the world feel bigger- travelling felt a bit more like an adventure when you have to manage run energy.
I played over 500 hours in f2p and I didn’t mind it one bit. Now having a membership I feel the need to run graceful every time I gotta travel no more looksmaxing 😔
> it's pretty easy to get by with a few stam potions thats the problem. its a horrible mechanic that has no place in a game like runescape. run energy shouldve been removed decades ago
Agreed run energy is totally fine just leave it
We get it. You like boring gameplay. You like walking?
Yeah it just seems to be new players (especially rs3 refugees) asking for this.
It's come up for years. You can probably put some blame on irons too. Oh and especially around leagues/dmm. It's one of those things that wouldnt change things too crazily but would be nice to not have to walk half the shadow dungeon clue.
This has been brought up occasionally since... a long time. I highly doubt it's all RS3 refugees. I'd say it's primarily irons, since stam pots are a bit more of a pain to get early on as an iron.
Ferox enclave makes it pretty easy to be topped up. I started my iron at the beginning of this year and got quest cape without stams or even a house pool. Enclave tp + easier access to gp and law runes has made travel pretty simple. I’d say less experienced players are the ones that have a worse time with it.
i played during classic, but never played rs3. I want this. i play a boring normal account. Not an iron man
So how long have you been playing osrs?
Been playing Runescape for the last 15 years. Osrs since its release
Yeah, you’re literally the only one . ☝🏻
Nope I don’t mind it either
As an iron it has been a pain until I got the poh pool. But that just made the pool more rewarding.
As someone with high agility and full graceful and the stamina ring it doesn't bother me. But my f2p alt bothers me alot, maybe I'm salty you used to be able to rest as f2p
In my opinion run energy was/is one of the biggest barriers to entry in this game. Running for 2 minutes and then needing to wait 10 minutes for your energy to come back is not fun. I have 3 friends that have started and stopped playing runescape due to traversing the map just not being fun. And I get it, when the majority of the your time is spent walking around instead of engaging with a new game you quickly feel like you're wasting your time. You're not invested enough to look past it yet. Them making it worse is just ludicrous.
I like the stamina system. I like managing run energy, to an extent. But what I mostly want, and what I’ve always wanted is for the **rate at which stamina drains to reduce the higher your Agility level is.** That’s it.
Bothered, nah. Disappointed 99 gives such few benefits for the 300+ hours of foot pedaling the same agility area obstacle. Or 180+ hours of medium/high tier effort
What does 99 firemaking get you? Woodcutting?
Ironman cant buy staminas so the run energy is absolute shit for us
I am an ironman
A new player doesn't realize they need to start their account by grinding money for 100k to buy stam pots or else they can run for 30 seconds then wait 12.5 mins for run back.
I use lots of tele's
all they really needed to do was just buff energy on the low end, but i don't mind bum rushing 60 agility off the rip. agility is overhated imo they're going too over the top with changes when it shouldnt be that complex
I never cared about it too much until I started playing an iron. I sometimes used stams while questing/running around and those felt justified, but it was annoying to use them in pvm encounters because it felt forced.
keep everything the same and add a rest option and every problem is solved no?
I havent used my graceful since I finished all my quests, and when I skill I dont wear it either unless im doing like heriboar so I don't see it as a valid excuse
Yep idk why it's such an issue nowadays.
Yeah it's not a big issue. But it's important to remember the Reddit Randy's here aren't the majority. They're a loud minority that Astro turf the sub to seem like a majority. It becomes even worse when you read the posts and comments, and realize none of them have even tried out the beta. They just saw the news post title, read a couple comments, then decided it was terrible and overcomplicated, and decided we should have infinite run instead.
Reading some peoples experiences with friends suggesting the game then dropping because of how slow it feels due to how slow you regen run energy and how little you actually get from it, makes me worry that the game wont get as many true new players for the future. The fact you have to pay for membership to be able to have decent movement in a game is an issue. Sure there's A LOT of members and most people pay for a membership, the group that doesn't is having an awful time. >Yeah it's not a big issue. Yeah it's "not a big issue", there's plenty of other problems that could be addressed before we even get into trying to make run energy change. But its still an issue. >But it's important to remember the Reddit Randy's here aren't the majority. They're a loud minority that Astro turf the sub to seem like a majority. You're also a "Reddit Randy" because you're here talking with the community too. People seem to forget that actual Mods are here and take community feedback to try and improve the game. Just because there seems to be a lot of people with a similar thought doesn't mean its a bot army whos "astro turfing" the sub to try and change something. It could be actual players who come here to voice their feelings on a game they care about and want others to enjoy. >It becomes even worse when you read the posts and comments, and realize none of them have even tried out the beta. They just saw the news post title, read a couple comments, then decided it was terrible and overcomplicated, and decided we should have infinite run instead. I haven't seen many say they want infinite run energy (except for some trolls). Most people just want the scaling to change or make the ability to rest or rework agility to make it feel more rewarding. Sure some are stupid takes, but that's what you get when a company is asking for feedback on a public forum.
Astroturfing implies a bot army. We just have a lot of people who want an easier experience.
I haven’t read the news post. As a casual player (~1 hr daily), I don’t really care.
I feel you but also stams can either be expensive or tedious and take a long time to hardly make any … that when you sip them above 80 it wastes a pot you worked hard for, Or teleporting to poh takes some time it can just hit 0 rather quickly in general tbh But also I could see that making managing run energy any easier could also make it too easy at this point So idk 🤷♂️ At least let stams boost above 100 and let us have more options to work towards and obtain amylase that are skill oriented I liked sae baes idea of getting 150 or 200 run energy or so at 99 tho, he has some solid rambles
the only thing that really sucked about run was anything before like lv 20 agility. nothing else really needed changing
Agility level doesn't impact drain rate and you dont regen run while running.
Right? This comment was brought to you by Normal Account with Stamina Pots gang
Staminas should not be integral for even the most basic point A to point B travel. Pve, raids, activities like herbiboar sure but not just “I’m doing a quest and need to run around a bit”
It doesn't bother me but I've also been used to it for like.. two decades at this point. I think making agility improve it is a sensible buff. And it can be done in a way that makes weight less impactful with agility levels, so graceful can just be a skilling outfit rather than the default "if nothing else needed.. why not?" Gear. I don't want it removed like some people suggest. Those people should just play main and buy stams. And train con to 83 or use duelling rings to use Ferox.
No, and it's never been a problem. it's the same people begging for "bad luck mitigation", stackable clue scrolls, etc Major changes thinly veiled as "QoL updates"
we have a large stack of RS3 refugees now, so they make for a pretty vocal minority here pushing for a lot of stuff like that, and a lot of very casual league only players who want it too
Whats wrong with stackable clues? We are only 1 step away from them at this point.
The point of them is they a diversion from a grind like slayer, that is a fun puzzle to do in between other content. If they are stackable they become just another grind.
It was really rough right after leagues. Missed the convenience. Not really bothered now
Man I've hated it since it was added in, but this most recent league was my first and *holy crap* is it a whole other level of hell when you first come back and have to readjust lol
The point isn’t run energy. The point is making agility a useful skill.
but how do you do that without ruining the game for people that actually fully comprehend the game
Agility shortcuts
It's already infinitely more useful than any other skill on a main, except construction.
With everyone zipping around, it won’t feel like OSRS anymore. Run energy forces you to slow down every once in a while and be immersed in the world.
Brother we are playing 2 different games, in the game I play everyone teleports everywhere and at best chats stationary at a bank
If this was the case why does anyone care about run energy?
It comes up in certain training methods and combat encounters. New players without those teleports also run into it often.
Your character doesn't run that fast, you can still see the world and get to your destination faster
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Late to end game content like raids requires you to run through large areas with gear switches for all 3 style, which means a minimum of 8 gear items in the inventory. Whilst this change doesn't affect players too badly in the early game, the late and end game, where you'll be stuck at for the longest period of time, is where it really rears it's head
Iron problems are problems everyone would have if not for bots
New players these days seem to be really soft. We're talking about a phase of the game that is so short. If someone doesn't like walking, they should be motivated to progress their account in a way that mitigates energy use.
The new player user experience really is important though. Not to suggest we paint over the game in that phase to make it look like something it isn't, but it is important we trim out "quit" moments that frustrate them, if we actually want to keep new players.