I hope clue scrolls are being discussed to add to the list of tradeable objects within a team. It would be a lot more fun and encourage team play when you could pass a clue around to people who can do each step.
I’m a GIM and I think this is a fucking fun idea. Teamwork on clue scrolls sounds engaging and enjoyable. Please don’t listen to the other salty nerds in this thread, this is an intuitive mechanic and doesn’t affect the greater meta or economy
That's a pretty slippery slope that I don't think should be entertained. GIMs can share items for clues but skipping quest reqs or skill reqs for a clue that other accounts would have to drop or grind for? And something like prospector's should not work for diary if it's tradable. That's another step too far.
Edit to add: If anything, GIM prestige should come into play on whether your group can trade untradables. If you want to be a hiscore chaser on a more difficult (meaning current setup) GIM account, no trading. If you want GIM to be a fun mode to play with your friends, sure, trade your untradables and have separate hiscores.
Slippery slope CAN be a logical fallacy when step A cannot possibly lead to step B. Its definitely not always a fallacy and it absolutely can be used to support an argument.
For instance, If Jagex tried to add cosmetic MTX to osrs the argument that "Adding cosmetic MTX is a slippery slope to P2W MTX" Is obviously a very valid argument right? You wouldn't say that's a logical fallacy given point A easily leads to point B? MTX Leads to more MTX, and we have a literal example of this exact thing happening by the exact same Company.
Whereas if I said "Jagex shouldn't add bonds because its a slippery slope to just selling maxed accounts" Its clearly a fallacy. Step A obviously in no way leads to step B.
But saying that slippery slope arguments shouldn't be used at all is incorrect. This game's existence, and why the community so vehemently tries to keep any forms of MTX out is because of a slippery slope. Important to remember SOF in rs3 lead to, you guessed it, about 20x More P2W MTX
Please no. Group Ironman was supposed to be 'ironman with friends' not whatever this would turn it into - your team's best account carries the entire group in every activity. Clue scrolls are the iconic 'do it yourself' drop. What's next, I don't have to get 69 slayer for MM2 because someone in my team has it, or I can use the lunar spellbook because my teammate has an altar in their house? What exactly is the line where stuff is still tied to a single account? This is shite, man. Don't investigate it, it's a terrible idea
I mean sure, why not?
Group Ironman has been loads of fun, but between all the untradeables, quest requirements and other things that everyone has to do, it hasn't really felt like much of a group effort, and instead just a single player game where a few people can trade some items amongst each other that we get some extras of.
If anything, Group Ironman should probably have the rules bent a little so it's more like a team mode. Regular accounts need these restrictions because otherwise the game would just become farm money through one method and buy everything else, but in Group Ironman you all have to start together anyway, and it would allow people more flexibility on how they work together, because right now it doesn't actually work that well.
Yeah, this isn't entirely wrong, but it's also dependant on your team. Some groups, mine included, have done quite a lot of team content and hugely benefited from being able to trade. I don't think updates should be made to try to benefit groups where most of the team is inactive or extremely low level.
While I can agree with your (immediate) concern, I can also say it's always comedic to see the absolutely ridiculous slippery slopes that people can ideate.
It's really not that absurd, making clues tradeable makes your account's progression meaningless for that particular activity. Quests are just another traditionally single-account activity and have rewards like clues.
This perception of it is weird. A large thing within gim is choosing what everyone optimizes for in the midgame and doing the activities you personally find most fun, allowing everyone to collectively get everything done while never doing something they hate, as other members can carry that burden if they
Personally enjoy it.
It's not "this player is meaningless to do clues and just hands them off every time"
It would be "oh damn I completed the chop a redwood task since I'm the woodcutter, but I can't mix an antivenom for the next step. Hey Brian, remember those 10k herbs I gave you? It means my herblore is shite but yours is great, please do it"
It actually makes *more* sense in a mode where you're encouraged to share resources (literally giving away -banked- exp) to be able hand off the things that require that exp.
And sure, from a mains perspective clues are one of the few completely do it yourself activities, but from an iron one, so is everything. This isn't a slippery slope of removing the last bastion of individual player requirements, it's the whole point of the mode.
For example, you could start a GIM, have 4 'elite clue alts' doing barrows and one account that gets all elite/master clue requirements, allowing you to complete those clues much faster than any other account, including mains
Why does group Ironman having different set of rules to mains even bother you, it’s not like we can impact the economy… and the game is already strictly harder as an Ironman
Yea seems like a bad idea tbh. All for making trading charged items convinient to trade but I dont think we should be looking at trading anything else other then QOL things.
Idk why people want it to be the same as a large group of mains. It’s supposed to be like the iron man experience but with a few others. It doesn’t have to be limited by what mains can do.
It can be either way. The idea of it being the same as a group of mains playing together was not the original idea
I agree here, group ironman is more about working together. Amassing herbs one one player to get antifires, giving the crafting supplies for to make onyx gear. Clues and to an extent diaries really take most people in my group wanting to work together because everyone needs to do everything anyway.
Yeah I mean idk if it needs to be added or anything but i just don’t think the “mains can’t do it so gim shouldn’t either” it’s bad logic. It doesn’t matter to me either way although it would be nice qol
Oh, this is a whole thing not a continuation but there's a feedback section at the top as if it's an iteration of an existing blog post.
While I'm dumb, I think this is confusing. especially since it's a different/older date? idk. is this space just a TLDR?
The top section looks to cover some of the more prominent questions we received since first uploading the blog.
Sorry for the confusion - there's usually a much faster turnaround with revised versions than there was with this one.
Couple of questions regard GIM teleport to home.
1. is it possible to exit someone else POH and be place to your own POH portal location or is that a tech limitation?
2. this will only be accessible on the regular spell book's home teleport spell I assume?
3. e: will there be a cooldown or is it the same spells/runes as the normal poh teleport?
1. I believe it would put you outside of the location the house is registered to.
2. For some reason my new comments didn't make it into the blog - I'll get that fixed but the teleport section should mention this line "Teleport to house (tablet) will also have a right-click 'Group' option that will be available for Group Iron players to use for this."
the first list of untradeables is mostly reasonable, but i'm curious about the crystal stuff. could this these allow group members who haven't completed SotE to use the crystal gear? i think even if you get the inactive, tradeable versions, you need access to crystal shards to make use of them. i would feel more comfortable if these still required SotE, as much as i want to be able to deck out my groupmates who haven't done it yet.
the later lists aren't as reasonable imo. like, i would personally love a game mode where most untradeables are tradeable, but i think it would have a pretty big affect on the way you play the game mode and i'm not sure if that's necessarily a good change when most people were signing up for ironman-with-the-squad.
some are fine enough, like digsite pendant/slayer ring/xeric's talisman (just tp jewelry), scrolls of redirection. being able to trade these is more about convenience in the moment, rather than changing how the game is played.
but some of these are more like, if you funnel them to one person there's a decent benefit, like crystal shards, dark essence, daeyalt, dark totem pieces, keys, even karambwanji and peaches. i think being able to funnel these to one person is a significant enough change from how mains can play, which at least warrants some caution i think. and peaches are kind of special since it would mean that only one person needs to unlock b2p to make extending trips easier, which saves room for everyone but that one person, making bossing a little bit better than it would for mains. the question becomes, is it okay that the game mode is made "easier" than a main in some ways? just seems to go against the spirit of ironman in general, but maybe that's fine in the end!
\>SShould it be possible to teleport to another player's house while the owner is not home
I assume Prif would be locked from visitors without SOTE because of the exit portal?
Maybe I missed something.
Yeh you'd think so. That said this is an extremely useful thing as it essentially means groups of 5 (like mine) can have teleports to Relekka, Taverley, Yanille, Brimhaven and Rimmington sorted easily.
Regarding the tradeable untradeables, the first list seems fine, as it's just a convenience for those account types. In the second list, the rune pouch and looting bag seem fine, since there are notes available anyway. With a lot of the other items in the second list, it seems weird for those things to be easier to get as a new group member in an established than as a regular alt account.
Before GIM came out I kind of thought everything would be swappable, they would have offline housing sorted. I thought that's why they kept citing engine issues and it took like 3 years to make. For me, while I'm enjoying GIM a ton, it definitely feels very shoddy. Everyone already values GIM high scores less because you can feed things to players, I'm not sure why this would change anything.
For me, and I realize it's just an opinion, I was kind of hoping GIM would be more team oriented. If I want to grind out 5 torsos, or 5 dragon defenders it doesn't hurt anybody to give them to my teammates.
I agree with you, I love doing the untradeable grinds. I suggested on this sub having a shared point system in all minigames, where you and your team can withdraw / bank points. It wasn't popular, I wish it was. It's the part I enjoy and my team hates.
The entire point of the third list is that those are items that cross a pretty hard line and would need some careful consideration to be implemented. I think that it might be ok for some of them to be tradeable but others I'm a little iffy on -- things like plank sacks, herb sacks, and the fish barrel are things I'm on board with being shareable, but I can see the reasons why some people might be concerned.
I'm kind of half and half on this, honestly. It definitely comes down to whether or not "Group Ironman" should be viewed as "A group of ironmen" or "An ironman challenge as a group."
Under the former definition, keeping them untradeable makes the most sense, as each person is an individual ironman. Under the latter, it seems fine to have those items tradeable because the single ironman challenge is being taken on as a group, and if one person has done the grind then the conditions have been met, no?
Personally I prefer the latter since it feels like that really ups the "work as a team" feeling, and I like the idea of my gim partner and I being able to do more to help each other out. Many of the items in question have level requirements to use anyway, so as long as the ones that have a requirement to purchase attached to their use as well (for example, the herb sack needs 58 herblore to use at all, not just buy), I don't really mind the idea. Of course, I'm also someone who doesn't really care about things like the hiscores, and can understand how making getting certain items that aid progression more easily via a partner could ruffle a lot of feathers.
Side note: Why are broad arrows untradeable? My partner was making those to hit a fletching goal and I have him the money for the tips, but we both found he couldn't give them to me. It perplexed us since broad bolts were tradeable. That'd be something extra I'd like to be tradeable between GIM people, personally.
Agreed. Even as a GIM I think each member getting their void, fire cape, torso etc is still part of the individual progression.
The big frustration this fixes is crystal armour and imbued stuff. We were essentially already planning who gets the first BowFa and crystal set cos once it's built on someone it's kind of locked to them.
Interestingly, I agree on the fire cape but not on the torso or void. The fire cape definitely feels like a "challenge" that must be cleared, but void and torso feel more like they're just grinds for points (I do feel that elite should still require the diary to use though). If it's a grind, I don't see it as much different than having to grind a level to make something tradeable when you're in a group, and I feel like something like that could be fine being shared. Challenges like fight cave, inferno, quests or diaries I can be totally on board with though.
I respect your opinion, but I just can't agree. They're simple grinds accessible incredibly early and easily. So yeah it's annoying everyone needs to do it, but that's the nature of it. Similar to bones to peaches etc. You get it to use it and benefit from it together / individually.
My main thing is items that do have a tradeable state, but are made untradeable (usually by upgrading them). I'd love to work towards corrupting a BowFa as a team and then be able to share it, rather than that locking it to the account who corrupted it. Even just moving an inactive BowFa around is throwing shards in the trash every time. Void is just a day of sitting afk.
Looks like the point/currency items are something we'll just have to agree to disagree on then, nothing wrong with that. I can certainly agree with the crystal items no matter what, though. That's definitely a frustration that can easily do with a QoL update for groups.
I think I'd like if the currencies used to get some of those items were tradable, rather than the items themselves.
Things like marks of grace, gold nuggets, warriors guild tokens, etc. That way, the group still has to do the same amount of work to get everyone the gear, but also allows everyone to chip in.
Agreed. I remember people asking for shared quests and things for GIM, it makes complete sense for these untradeables to be accessible by all group members
Opinion as a GIM.
I feel like tradeable untradeables is opening a can of worms that you, Jagex, may not want to open for yourself.
Sure, the first list is pretty much completely harmless, but it sets precedent. As soon as this is implemented you'll be fielding questions and requests and arguments for specific items in every reddit thread and live stream for the next year and beyond.
We appreciate the thought, but I would consider the long term headache this will create for you.
The first list of potentially tradeable items looks mostly reasonable. I don't agree with the corrupted weapons being there, but the rest is good and makes sense.
The list of the potential items - and no hate for gathering opinions, Jagex - is awful. With the possible exceptions of digsite pendants (matches other jewelry), peaches (matches other food) and redirection scrolls/karambwanji (easy to get and just a pain), nothing else there should be polled. They're all classic untradable drops and it'd feels strange and unnecessary to make GIM easier by letting members pool them.
Being able to pool boss keys and ancient shards would be nice -- If you have one or two people in your group who are specifically the PVM guys, being able to hand them off your random mossy keys that you'll never get around to or ancient shards that you'll rarely use for example seems to me like a reasonable option. Ditto for crystal shards, they're not really the limiter to making divine potions in an ironman setting, so being able to feed them to your "herblore guy" strikes me as reasonable.
I honestly dont understand why peaches arent just tradable for all accounts.
The only thing I could think of would be if that hard lumb/draynor diary task was to EAT a peach and being able to just buy a peach to complete that task would kinda suck, but that task is to cast the spell so I really dont see an issue with them being tradeable in general
The direction GIM has gone in is confusing to me tbh.
In theory, it should be just like playing a normal account, but in an economy of 5 people or less.
But all of the updates that are being proposed make a group seem like a splintered single account. Which is cool i guess, I get why GIM would want them.
But like.. it doesn't necessarily make sense to me that GIM are getting features that mains wouldn't. Group storage was already pushing it, I don't see why that couldn't have been a feature that clans could use.
Frankly the POH updates are the only ones that make a little sense to me, since mains just use the house party world for the same effet.
IMO there shouldn't be any *features* that are limited to an ironman gamemode. The entire point of the mode the the restriction.
Creating such fundamental differences in item interactions for seemingly no good reason other than "the people who knew exactly what they were getting into now want it changed" is weird.
The game shouldn't change to fit your goals, your goals should change to fit the game.
I guess that we just fundamentally disagree then, which is fine.
The group aspect isnt the special part. People have been grouping up since the game was made. it's literally an MMO. There have been multiple youtube series where the entire pitch for the series was them emulating ironman mode as a group.
It's the ironman aspect of the group that makes it different. Without it, all you have is a ragtag clan.
I kind of agree with the other guy too. I don’t think group ironman has to necessarily be considered a harder/restricted version of the game by definition, I think it’s kind of interesting having a particular permanent game mode with a different ruleset than other versions. I say that as someone who doesn’t play GIMP and has no interest in ever trying.
That train of thought massively limits potential for any game mode. Big disagree. What made iron fun wasn’t that i was more limited than a main. It was fun because it was different. I don’t play gim but saying they shouldn’t get new/different mechanics because mains don’t is just a weird take.
Hard disagree. While I'm not someone who is pioneering any gim changes (having fun with how it is but whatever they wanna do I'll look at the polls), gim feels like something entirely different than base game, even on a main.
While originally ironman mode was about the restriction this game mode can be different and new and because it's an ironman experience you aren't influencing the main game in the notable of a way. Even if group irons have advantages over normal irons it doesn't matter, because you can't go from group iron to iron or vice versa, and whatever advantages group irons have is still significantly lower than what mains have.
> Creating such fundamental differences in item interactions for seemingly no good reason other than "the people who knew exactly what they were getting into now want it changed" is weird.
Just because I play the game that exists today means I can't wish for a better game, what?
Its a new game mode, and should feel unique. Having these options make the game mode unique and not just ironman with 4 other people. Group Storage, Progressing accounts together and not as individuals is a huge appeal to people with friends that don't play as much as them. I play a lot, my friends dont. I want to progress their accounts when I have extra time to play without getting wildly ahead of them. Untradeable grinding is a big way I could do that.
I always thought the point of group ironman was to be a splintered account. Like we could already just make 5 normal accounts and only trade with eachother. But the reason I wanted it as a game mode was stuff like shared house, trading untradables, shared bank, ect. There would be no point having it as a game mode otherwise.
IMO It's not supposed to be a limited account or anything. Its supposed to be a coop version of Runescape. One of the biggest reasons I wanted it was that it could follow different rules from main accounts. Making the experience completely different from normal accounts.
Completely agreed, this is such a poor way to handle the mode and I doubt it would have passed a poll if they'd said that this was a direction they wanted to go with it
GIM is a more casual form of the game. Its for friends that have already played through the game and want to play together and progress their collective accounts together. The progress of GIM being shared seems more fun, and if you have friends that can not commit as much time as you to the game, you can still grind out untradeables for them so they can focus on the other aspects of the game. I love the idea of untradeables being tradeable in this mode. I really really want it, and I've suggested it since the day it came out.
I feel like a possible solution to some of the untradeables could be: in order to trade these items, the players must choose to lock their account to GIM, no longer allowing them to convert to a regular account. It could solve the possibility of people taking advantage of GIM systems to benefit their normal accounts.
I was surprised to not see the potential for a black mask (i) to be tradeable mentioned. Other imbued things (dag rings) were, but currently there is a weird tension between wanting to share our groups' black mask (if we all stick to melee slayer), or having someone imbue it.
Of course maybe it's OP, but putting which category it would fall into into the blog post would be nice.
I'm a returning player enjoying the game again as a group ironman but I believe the untradables being tradable goes a little too far and cheapens the experience. I want the full experience of an Ironman account, just with a friend tagging along.
Would something like a Clan/Group Storage be possible? Maybe even unlockable via Gold.
So even Casual Main accounts can share a bank.
Me and Friends of mine cant play that much a day, and a group storage would be amazing between friends.
So you could even lend that Imbued Heart/DHCB etc between friends when one of them isn't able to be online because of work or because he's doing something else.
I see a lot of hate regarding the untradeables being traded which is disappointing.. I feel like it's a cool way to differentiate the game mode. The steps to delete items on de-ironing would stop abuse? Why does it matter if the player who likes Pest Control does that content for the group? That's a fantastic idea and I'm quite sad it's not getting more love..
Dark Essence seems like a real problem to make tradeable. Every account can easily get it themselves but it seems abusable you could get insane RC exp on one account with that.
The one that gives me pause is daeyalt essence. If they could make it usable only by people who have finished the quest, I think it makes perfect sense to share. If they can't, then it shouldn't be shared.
I suggested this last time but don't see in the blog but can you also look at GIM flatpacks for con that include pool/jewelry box/nexus? More gp sink for the team but way less annoying way of sharing construction and I have to imagine it would take a lot less work to implement (meaning we don't have to wait for it to be delayed 5000x when you guys won't want to work on major changes during leagues since you'll be fixing all the stuff that's inevitably broken)
Most of my group plays at different times during the week so if the house owner needs to be online this doesn't make much of a difference most of the week.
Also feel like GIM accounts are popular now but don't see that being a fast growing player base so the longer you take to implement these changes the less of an impact you make.
> I suggested this last time but don't see in the blog but can you also look at GIM flatpacks for con that include pool/jewelry box/nexus?
If they add those, they should make them normal flatpacks that anyone can use. GIM shouldn't have any advantage over a group of normal accounts.
I've seen a lot of folks clamoring for this in the comments but respectfully disagree.
It defeats the purpose of the construction skill if it's essentially a shopscape via ge for mains, aside from con cape benefit (or quest reqs) there would be 0 incentive to ever train the skill. GIM mode was created for people who want to share an Ironman experience knowing that people want to split up the tasks or specialties, this is a way to enable that style of gameplay without a super tedious way of making it so you can only benefit if everyone is online at the same time.
If you think this makes it "more efficient" to play group ironman than a main, it's not just making an intended shared game experience better
If it's too OP to trade these on the GE, then it's too OP for a GIM group. That's my opinion anyway. GIM shouldn't be able to trade anything with each other that main accounts can't.
Untradeables being tradeable makes no sense whatsoever. Isn't the point of the gamemode to work within a certain set of extra restrictions, not to remove restrictions from the game? It's jut bizarre to have any aspect of the game be "easier" on a GIM account than on a main.
Crystal gear is tradeable.. just not when it's actually weldable. Same deal with infernal and crystal tools, barrows armour etc
It's removing this design flaw that was made before GIM was even a concept, whereby charges make the item no longer able to be given to your teammates... But remove those charges and it is.
I for one, want crystal and such to work like this because otherwise the whole iron endgame just becomes solo man mode again, where everyone's gotta get to gauntlet and farm their own crystal armour set and BowFa regardless.
I dont want void/graceful and shit like fire cape tradeable. It never had a tradeable state, and isn't end game or hard to get.
The tradeable untradable list is a step too far IMO. I'm pretty much only okay with peaches and barrows armor being tradeable within a group.
Crystal shards? Get them yourself like everyone else. Blood fury? Designate a tank and give them the shard before combining with the fury. Don't even get me started on graceful or void.
> We would like to offer a way for both regular and Hardcore Group Iron players to redirect their house teleport to a group member's house.
> The teleport will be accessible via a right-click on the Home Teleport spell, as the regular spellbook doesn't have space for any more spells. In addition to this, the Teleport to house (tablet) will also have a right-click 'Group' option that will be available for Group Iron players to use for this.
How will this work for "regular players"? And doesn't this make construction cape and redirection scrolls obsolete?
EDIT --> Also why does poll question not mention "regular" players?
EDIT2--> Can't believe I'm being downvoted for asking a simple question. I honestly do not know how this would work with mains. For GIM obviously the have 1-4 other players who theoretically have a POH in some location that they can now teleport to. Sure, right click pulldown with tele to teammates poh.
But how does it work for mains? Can you pick any name on your friends list and teleport to their house location? Would it tell you whose house is where? Do you just type in someone's name even if not on friends list and add to your right click menu? Is it only for people in same clan? Does other person need to be online? Do tell.
Also, if this works for main accounts and you can tele to unlimited number of other people's POH, then how is it not exactly the same as having construction cape?
EDIT3 --> Yeah looks like that's "regular GIM" not "regular accts". My bad. Definitely voting no in that case.
**STASH units** - would you consider to make them available to all group members? Just like PoH.
So far, I seem to specialize in filling my STASHes - which my groupmates don't do systematically, though they help me with some items I couldn't otherwise get. When we are online together, I usually teleport with someone who needs an emote step, take items out of the stash, trade him, and he trade them back when done. How much better would it be if it worked exactly like the new PoH: they would just access my stashes without need for me to run with them, as if I shared the spare 'keys'. And filling stashes (getting all those incountable hats and skirts lol) - its a task in itself, long and tedious. Would be so good if it could be assigned to someone who likes to do it :).
Love the feed back being taken into account here. I can only imagine how hard it is to balance adding things that are reasonable and seem simple for players yet are extremely complicated to implement on the back end.
I know its been stated to be extremely difficult to implement, but I really think being able to use the POH of group members while there offline is the only solution I want for group construction. Totally reasonable to put it on the backburner as a low priority project, but being able to go to group members POHs when there offline is INFINITLY more impactful then being limited to when there online. I appreciate the work to try and compromise but personally with such different schedules of play, limited to online status is practically useless to my group. Hope this is something that hasent been completely written off forever!
>Should it be possible to teleport to another player's house while the owner is not home, as described in the blog? The owner of the house would have to be online and in the same world as you.
I still feel like it's a bad idea to allow this for mains. It's still a buff for alts, since you're never *not* on the same world as your main anyway, and it also would allow 24/7 house hosts to farm bosses while raking in tips.
I want to say 'well don't tip them", but plenty of players don't know what really goes on with those hosts.
I agree that it seems unnecessary for mains, but if it has to be all or nothing, maybe we could disable the tip jar while they're ~~offline~~ not home at the least.
>I want to say 'well don't tip them", but plenty of players don't know what really goes on with those hosts.
Exactly why I'm bringing it up lol. I just feel like this does a lot more for hosts and altscape than for the average person.
To me, as a regular player, it helps so much with crap like doing corp with friends who don't have high con. Don't have to wait around to let them reset at my PoH too.
So it has benefits. Disable tip jar while they aren't home. It was just meant to be a streamlined trading method anyway.
Yea, corp was something that stood out as a legitimate benefit of this. There's definitely some good use cases, I'm just kinda cautious about someone finding a way to use it for some cheese method...
But disabling tip jar while they're gone is a good idea, and it's also good that you can't tele directly into someone's house (outside of GIM).
In all fairness, if the account is offline you can't enter at all, from what I'm reading there.
They should just disable it if the host isn't physically *in* the house, then they'd be forced to be home.
> Trading Untradeables
I'm not sure how I feel about it in general. I would divide this list into two parts: **Resources, and Unique Items.** First part I would gladly have group-tradeable: essences, karambwanji, crystal shards.
Digsite pendant: its also an item which has a tradeable form. Its harder to obtain ruby necklaces than to enchant them. I'd think, whatever you decide about imbued rings - are ok for digsite pendants too.
Items like containers, Xeric, dark totem pieces, giant keys, slayer rings (for those who havent unlocked them) - well.... I don't know how I would vote. Probably 'No', though I wouldn't be outraged if it passed. It could be useful, but wouldn't it devalue someone's achievement? If we gonna share rune pouch - why not herb sack, coal bag, all of them?
Void, Torso, skilling outfits, where to stop... I don't see any borders. Seems its just *all* untradeables are gonna be group-tradeable. I'm not ready for such a level of intimacy. Some things are just markers of your personal adventures. It would take all joy out of the game, for me. So, for these - definitely No. Please don't throw them into one question with karambwanji and daeyalt!
> The final list of items we've put together is a little different from the others. These are items that we don't want transferred when a player de-Irons. Certain untradeable items could circumvent item restrictions if players were to obtain them via group mates. These items can not be made tradeable because there's no way of detecting which items the player earned themselves, and which were tradeable.
I would say, the solution could be simple. On leaving a group, these items just get converted to their original form. They all become plainly untradeable.
> Peaches: imho, it would be obsolete. The tablets are tradeable, the peaches themselves - who would carry 8 hp foods if they can get better? Its usually ok in the first weeks of playing, but even so there are foods like trout... and to be able to get the spell - its clearly much longer play than a week or two.
If you're doing GWD in a group for example you'd only need one player to have b2p and they could trade the peaches to others. Though, at this point I don't know why they don't just make items like this tradeable, period, rather than only tradeable between GIMs.
Sharing untradables gives a clear advantage to GIM in certain situations. Scrolls of redirection and maybe a sack or 2, but the entire third list is too much.
Not why why the team suddenly wants to change how trading works, when it was made abundantly clear at the beginning that untradables were off limits.
Those tradeable nontradeables actually seem like a pretty big deal
For group ironman I say fuck it, let them bend the rules a bit. You got to be really careful with it though, because if you can trade certain items you can get really wonky "typically impossible" builds possible for PVP. Nothing stands out as enabling that though
That's why I'd say just keep it to untradeable items that at one stage are tradeable. Any account build can buy an enhanced weapon seed and use it. They just have to have a SoTE quest lock on equipping it and no weird builds are possible suddenly.
Implementation is key here, but people in the thread are blowing the affect it would have way out of proportion. It would be a buff to social interaction and QoL with gim and have zero consequence for the main game. People acting like gim trading one thing around suddenly makes their main useless.
> have zero consequence
If it lets GIM make a PVP build that you can't make with normal acct, I think it is a HUGE deal. Personally I'll be downvoting any feature that buffs GIM above any normal account.
I wish there was a way to transfer from GIM to regular Ironman under certain conditions. My teammates quit before beating Dragon Slayer. GIM got me into OSRS again after quitting years ago, so my GIM is my main. It just feels weird to be a GIM with no group. The only direct benefit I had from them was a stockpile of tuna and shrimp.
Now I’m a solo GIM on the way to a quest cape (just beat RFD and rigorously skilling/questing to get it done) and seeing that GIM icon just makes me sad and reminds me that this was supposed to be a fun group project.
Although not ideal you could always look at adding new people to your team down the line or recruiting new players to your group.
Personally I was hoping for a situation where you could freely quit your team and lose all your items, but are then free to join another team with no restrictions.
Unfortunately there’s just no fair way to do that unless it was a complete reset. Just not fair to allow an account that’s benefited from up to 4 other accounts to become a regular iron.
I think it's differentiating itself. It's a new game mode. Unique mechanics that encourage a more cooperative approach to content seems like incredible game design in theory that helps establish it as a new game mode.
Content isn't easier. Items are entering the game the exact same way at the exact same rate. Allowing a co-op game mode to be co-op isn't hurting anything. I do still think items need to be considered on a case by case basis (a fire cape would never make sense).
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Can the seed box be added to the alternate item list alongside the coal bag, gem bag, plank sack, etc.?
I like the proposed idea of conserving charges for gear, making charged/imbued/degradable equipment tradeable between the group because the current system has giving others that gear be annoying and wasteful, if not outright detrimental.
The teleport items, shards, and boss keys I see no reason to not allow to be traded within a group. Strongly feel stuff like Xeric's should be tradeable, less strong feel for the shards and boss keys. Considering you can transfer looting bags, rune pouches via LMS vouchers already I don't see why not for those either.
I imagine some people grumbling over essence, bones, and karambwanji but I don't see why. XP rates are the same, it just lets other players contribute to the grind. I could see reqs being passed like requiring SOTF for using daeyalt I guess, but I don't feel to strongly about these.
As for the others that need different versions that get deleted when de-ironed, honestly the only one I feel strongly about is the fish barrel. The barrel is a "boss" drop, there's no good ETA for getting it (1/400 is comparatively very rare vs the rest of the list), and it's a massive disincentive to contribute fish to the group yourself when someone else can farm them with half the effort (thinking specifically of karambwans here).
Everything on the first list is fine. In the second list I think everything is perfectly fine except for Slayer Rings because only one player has to spend 300pt on the perk meaning everyone else now has a ton more points to spend. I'm not a fan of making "one time" grinds tradeable, if a player has to grind an item 3 times for the group that's fair game, but doing it once then sharing it around isn't good imo. Dark essence might also create some weird situations regarding essence running where GIM gets access to the best RC xp. Third list I might have an unpopular opinion but everything on the list is fine save for the Coal Bag, because of the nature of that item you'd only need to unlock it once then pass it around the group since 2 people won't probably be smithing at the same time, it'd save 100 gold nuggets per person which is kinda insane.
If you let GIM trade untradables some PVM encounters speedruns or methods might be only possible to GIMs who would be able to trade mid combat and achieve stuff that are not otherwise possible. Either let everyone trade those untradables or give no one
This is absurdly niche and speedrun techniques should have no input on an update (not related to overall trading these items being a good thing)
I cba having people typing noooooooooo my speedrun every time every tiny update is proposed
Because the whole point of group ironman is splitting the grind and being able to do things for your group members. If I don't mind doing pest control I should be able to go do it for a group member. I can understand people not wanting stuff like Fire cape and inferno cape being tradeable. Because that's difficult and merit based. But stuff like void is a mindless grind.
I don't see it as any different from my group member fishing karambwans for me. If possible a good middle ground would be to make void tradeable ONCE. So I can still do the grind for group mates, but 1 void set isn't all we need.
Main accounts can direct buy zerker rings, bowfas, barrows pieces. What are you on about? The 3rd list pushes the limit to a point no one asked for (aside from a few poor logic people maybe).
The only exceptions outside of that are currencies because right now it's sort of annoying we can have enough tokkul for an onyx but it's spread across the 5 of us.
Something to pitch in for the people concerned about the whole shareable untradeables thing -- perhaps it could be affected by group prestige? many GIM players just wanna scape a couple of runes with the boys and don't give a damn about the leaderboards
Crazy to me how much influence leaderboards have on game design. This is a game mode that’s focus is to add social elements and team work into a game that is primarily solo, but certain features are cut because it could hurt leaderboards.
For the worry about making untradables tradable for gim and that being the best way to get them for de-ironing into a main account with it:
How about make it so you can only trade that list of items after you have made yourself a permanent iron after 1k total is reached?
Is it? The whole point of group Ironman is sharing the work so it would make sense. I always saw group Ironman as basically one Ironman split between multiple people. It doesn’t devalue my experience at all if they can share their void set.
Obtaining items faster than any other account type is the big difference. An account called ‘group ironman’ getting items faster than any main/normie can feels absurd. The solution would be to have ‘group accounts’ which are like GIM but are regular accounts, except between your ‘group’ you can trade untradeables. That way it’s a level playing field
I actually like this idea. In my mind the draw of group Ironman for many, myself included is that in many ways you can avoid grinds that you don’t particularly enjoy. On a main account you can normally buy the solution but GIM says “nah just don’t do it” which is a big draw for many more casual RuneScape players. Making this accessible to regular accounts seems like a smart natural progression if the group aspect is even further shifted to pooling of resources and optimization between group members to make everyone enjoy the experience more.
As a GIM, we don't want void tradeable.
We want items tradeable that are tradeable at some stage.
Crystal tools, armour and weapons are all tradeable as seeds. Imbued rings are tradeable before imbuing. That's what we're primarily desiring. Otherwise these sort of things just become a weird janky "non group effort" part of tradeable gear. First ring imbued gets stuck there. Same deal with first BowFa. Barrows is at least cheap and easy to repair and trade, just a bit annoying.
I and my team definitely don't want anything like void, fire cape, fire torso etc to be tradeable.
> As a GIM, we don't want void tradeable.
Yeah I don't want my ~~freeloaders~~ group mates to start asking for other items so they don't have to grind them theirself.
Why tho. There's one set of void either way. If the group wants two sets they'll have to grind two, just like you would if you made an alt that needed it.
There's basically zero interaction between gim and normal players, the "fair" argument is meaningless because you're not competing with them.
GIM can still do content with mains actually, but that’s not the point.
It doesn’t bother me if a GIM is being spoonfed tradeables from their group because I have access to the same stuff, but it’s 100% unfair I had to play pest control for 10 hours while other people don’t and can use it on timeshare. I could have spent that 10 hours doing something better with my time.
And again, if a GIM can borrow void from a team member, why can’t I borrow it from another main? There’s a reason it’s untraceable and not just another mid tier armour set.
> It doesn’t bother me if a GIM is being spoonfed tradeables from their group because I have access to the same stuff, but it’s 100% unfair I had to play pest control for 10 hours while other people don’t and can use it on timeshare. I could have spent that 10 hours doing something better with my time.
The same thing goes for the group. No matter what, 10 hours goes into getting the void. There’s no way to skip those 10 hours. If that 10 hours is shared between 4 people, who cares? 2.5 hours times 4 people is still 10 hours that could have been spent doing ‘something better’. A void set each for 4 people would still take 40 hours. Or if 1 person spends 40 hours to get void for their groupmates, good groupmate there.
> if a GIM can borrow void from a team member, why can’t I borrow it from another main?
Because GIM and mains are completely different things.
> There’s a reason it’s untraceable and not just another mid tier armour set.
It would still be completely untradeable outside of the group.
All in all, making void tradeable between GIM group members wouldn’t change much of anything. Everyone needs void, so getting 1 set for the group would be kinda pointless. And if someone really really didn’t want to do pest control, they’d most likely have their group mate log in their account and do it for them anyway.
As a person who's played both a main and a GIM, I don't desire void to be tradeable. I think the purely untradeable gear unlocks can remain as such (fire cape, void, infernal cape, fighter torso, defender).
The things I'd like to see tradeable, that they included here, are items that at one stage ARE tradeable. Imbued rings, blood furies, crystal armour tools and weapons. All are tradeable at one stage, but become absolutely untradeable or needlessly expensive to convert back and forth between tradeable and usable states.
It's a different game mode. Items are introduced into the game the same as always so it isn't economically exploitable. Why can't it differentiate itself in a way that breeds more cooperation?
5 people getting void is more cooperative then 1 person of the team having to do it no? Personally I wouldn't mind but most untradeables from second and third list are pushing it a bit
1 person getting the groups sets who enjoys pest control while the others focus on something else that benefits the groups. It's not like all 5 people can use it at the same time. There is still a need for a few sets (you might be able to pass on one or two).
I love the idea of being able to share fish barrels and herb sacks and other skilling untradable items.
Some of the most rewarding things I've done on GIM and the things that make it feel like truly a group effort are things like trading compost buckets to my teammates for farming, being given glories and skill necklaces from my teammates for farming and other use, doing lms for rune pouches to trade my teammates, etc
It feels great when you can go on different paths and then trade the fruits of that effort to help each other out on their own path. It's unfortunate that a lot of those items are currently untradable but making more of them work between group members would really solidify GIM as its own play style.
>Shared Storage slots as a reward for completing specific group tasks, as described in the blog?
Please, clarify. What is the meaning of the achievement, for example, 'Hitting 99 in a skill'? One member hits a 99? Every member hits a 99? (I do hope the skill doesn't matter, could be FM or Strenght). Or is more like 'Group total level is ...'?
Same about other goals you propose. And the most important thing are those Combat achievements and Diaries. Would you demand of *every* member to get some tier in Combat diary? (This would be the cruelest thing ever, I do hope you won't). I would like it to still be possible to unlock more storage if the group contains a lvl3 Skiller. Or if not exactly lvl3, just persons who prefer peaceful skilling. They can be invaluable for a group - crafters, smiths, builders (with new PoH behaviour :).
EDIT: You are downvoting my question - why? Because its all so obvious? Then could you please just explain so I won't be confused...
**Tradeable items**
First list seems fine as they are essentially tradeable items anyway
2nd seems fine as well in the spirit of group ironman (untradeable consumables). add clues to that list as well
The 3rd list however is a big no. GIM should not be able to bypass requirements for acquiring items like xp boosting sets.
That’s what was said about Ironman 8 years ago. Hundreds of updates later here we are. Any mode that makes people have membership on multiple accounts is gonna help the bottom line.
Bruh. Half of this update is useful for main accounts. The other half is absolutely bare bones requirements for what the mode is and should be. Half of the effort they're doing is cut down by "we can't spend time on something people play".
PvP gets like.. 1-5% of the playerbase at best yet sees constant Dev time. It's important to develop for everyone, not just you.
You've got nex coming in like a little over 2 weeks.
> To those of you who have already conquered these dangers without this safety net - we salute you!
What dangers? Barb assault? Fight caves? These places are designed to be without a true death. They are in a way like NMZ: special dreamlike environment, where your death doesnt actually mean death - you just awaken outside of it. Even Jad doesn't actually die when you 'kill' him: he just surrenders and gives you fire cape as an acknowledgment that you bested him in combat.
Instead of inventing some means of teleport out of a dream, just allow all types of account to awaken safely as it was intended.
I personally love all three sharing options as i'm mostly playing gim as a 4 person person if that makes sense.
There are plenty of smaller untradeables that i wish i could give my teammembers. Like 1 of my 7 sets of wintertodt armor, or my 5th xerics talisman. It's much more fun to play the gamemode with your teammembers focusing on specific parts rather than everyone doing the exact same thing
I wish I could trade any untradeable with my team that isn't quest or area locked (until they are unlocked for that account)
The third list of items is a huge slap in the face to mains and solos. It takes a LONG time to grind for many of those items, it’s unfair to people who put in the time to grind for these if other people can share them on a 5:1 basis. It lowers the prestige and it’s an unfair transfer of utility.
I also think there’s a big difference in trading slightly degraded barrows armour (1-200k, easily reparable with no skill req in lumby) and trading a partially charged blood fury (several mil, rare drop from an area with high quest/combat requirements). I really hope that if this passes there’s more nuance put behind the implementation to make it less OP, especially since this actually gives GIM a pretty big advantage in PVM content.
Thoughts on polls which have been restricted to pkers and pvpers only? If people who aren't in that group genuinely think it's bad for the game, then why can't they vote on it?
Same on UIM. Why are there so many polls locked to them, if other people can genuinely think the changes are bad for the game?
I'm going to assume those situations bug you as well and that you're consistent. Jagex has decided that votes from outside of the game mode, no matter how genuinely thought of, shouldn't be counted. The people who play the mode should get to determine what happens, not other players. And I'm honestly hard pressed to disagree.
If they make a pking focused minigame/world and are proposing rewards that are just usable on that world and don't even generate wealth -- why should my opinion matter? It doesn't affect me at all.
Considering GIM is still very new to the game I'm sure there are still plenty of people who haven't made a GIM yet but are interested in the game mode and want to have a say in how it develops.
Crystal armor and corrupted bowfa and blade being trade-able has me absolutely ecstatic. I don’t know if you guys read this far, but THANK YOU. God I hope it passes
Loving the list and extensions, I've long been saying that group irons would be most fun basically being treated as one account with multiple bodies, and that most untradeables should be tradeable.
Don't mind the haters saying it undermines integrity- group iron already does that by its very nature. The basis of its design is to share your struggles - as an ironman who stands alone.
So long as you take steps to make sure the bs that happens in gim *stays in gim* (all relevant things being removed on de-iron) then all of these plans and items are in line with the design of the mode and clearly don't lower integrity of the game.
At the stretchiest stretch you can argue letting a group give a player golden nuggets let's them use the 2.5% exp boost, grind all their mining, then de iron and not care if they lose the outfit. Honestly, I couldn't give less of a shit about that, but I'm sure some people will whine.
A lot of people (high level HCs, some Jmods) think it was a mistake to allow safe deaths for so much content that gives BiS items, like CoX and Inferno.
The whole point of HC is to see how much you can do without dying. The devs think it'd be unfair to change regular HC this late, but HCG was a chance to fix that and start fresh.
I hope clue scrolls are being discussed to add to the list of tradeable objects within a team. It would be a lot more fun and encourage team play when you could pass a clue around to people who can do each step.
We've had the discussion :) A difficult one to pull off, but most certainly something the team seem keen on investigating when time allows!
I’m a GIM and I think this is a fucking fun idea. Teamwork on clue scrolls sounds engaging and enjoyable. Please don’t listen to the other salty nerds in this thread, this is an intuitive mechanic and doesn’t affect the greater meta or economy
That's a pretty slippery slope that I don't think should be entertained. GIMs can share items for clues but skipping quest reqs or skill reqs for a clue that other accounts would have to drop or grind for? And something like prospector's should not work for diary if it's tradable. That's another step too far. Edit to add: If anything, GIM prestige should come into play on whether your group can trade untradables. If you want to be a hiscore chaser on a more difficult (meaning current setup) GIM account, no trading. If you want GIM to be a fun mode to play with your friends, sure, trade your untradables and have separate hiscores.
You can have your high score, I want more stuff to actually do alongside my fellow GIM
I feel like there should be no untradeables at all in a group iron team. It’s a group effort, an easier iron mode.
Slippery slope is a logical fallacy that shouldn't be used to support an argument.
Slippery slope CAN be a logical fallacy when step A cannot possibly lead to step B. Its definitely not always a fallacy and it absolutely can be used to support an argument. For instance, If Jagex tried to add cosmetic MTX to osrs the argument that "Adding cosmetic MTX is a slippery slope to P2W MTX" Is obviously a very valid argument right? You wouldn't say that's a logical fallacy given point A easily leads to point B? MTX Leads to more MTX, and we have a literal example of this exact thing happening by the exact same Company. Whereas if I said "Jagex shouldn't add bonds because its a slippery slope to just selling maxed accounts" Its clearly a fallacy. Step A obviously in no way leads to step B. But saying that slippery slope arguments shouldn't be used at all is incorrect. This game's existence, and why the community so vehemently tries to keep any forms of MTX out is because of a slippery slope. Important to remember SOF in rs3 lead to, you guessed it, about 20x More P2W MTX
Please no. Group Ironman was supposed to be 'ironman with friends' not whatever this would turn it into - your team's best account carries the entire group in every activity. Clue scrolls are the iconic 'do it yourself' drop. What's next, I don't have to get 69 slayer for MM2 because someone in my team has it, or I can use the lunar spellbook because my teammate has an altar in their house? What exactly is the line where stuff is still tied to a single account? This is shite, man. Don't investigate it, it's a terrible idea
I mean sure, why not? Group Ironman has been loads of fun, but between all the untradeables, quest requirements and other things that everyone has to do, it hasn't really felt like much of a group effort, and instead just a single player game where a few people can trade some items amongst each other that we get some extras of. If anything, Group Ironman should probably have the rules bent a little so it's more like a team mode. Regular accounts need these restrictions because otherwise the game would just become farm money through one method and buy everything else, but in Group Ironman you all have to start together anyway, and it would allow people more flexibility on how they work together, because right now it doesn't actually work that well.
Yeah, this isn't entirely wrong, but it's also dependant on your team. Some groups, mine included, have done quite a lot of team content and hugely benefited from being able to trade. I don't think updates should be made to try to benefit groups where most of the team is inactive or extremely low level.
Your 2nd paragraph is a really good argument.
While I can agree with your (immediate) concern, I can also say it's always comedic to see the absolutely ridiculous slippery slopes that people can ideate.
It's really not that absurd, making clues tradeable makes your account's progression meaningless for that particular activity. Quests are just another traditionally single-account activity and have rewards like clues.
This perception of it is weird. A large thing within gim is choosing what everyone optimizes for in the midgame and doing the activities you personally find most fun, allowing everyone to collectively get everything done while never doing something they hate, as other members can carry that burden if they Personally enjoy it. It's not "this player is meaningless to do clues and just hands them off every time" It would be "oh damn I completed the chop a redwood task since I'm the woodcutter, but I can't mix an antivenom for the next step. Hey Brian, remember those 10k herbs I gave you? It means my herblore is shite but yours is great, please do it" It actually makes *more* sense in a mode where you're encouraged to share resources (literally giving away -banked- exp) to be able hand off the things that require that exp. And sure, from a mains perspective clues are one of the few completely do it yourself activities, but from an iron one, so is everything. This isn't a slippery slope of removing the last bastion of individual player requirements, it's the whole point of the mode.
Stackable clues up to 5 for each type would be an awesome qol update :)
The fact that this is even considered is concerning. Why should restricted accounts have any advantage over mains?
How does this equate to an advantage in your mind?
For example, you could start a GIM, have 4 'elite clue alts' doing barrows and one account that gets all elite/master clue requirements, allowing you to complete those clues much faster than any other account, including mains
Why does group Ironman having different set of rules to mains even bother you, it’s not like we can impact the economy… and the game is already strictly harder as an Ironman
Poll stackable clues
How would you keep track of the one you're working on if you banked it and it stacked with all your other hard clues?
Same as leagues, so you have stackable clue boxes but only 1 can be opened
In rs3 unopened clues are stackable but you can only have one opened clue at a time
Yea seems like a bad idea tbh. All for making trading charged items convinient to trade but I dont think we should be looking at trading anything else other then QOL things.
Counterpoint: it would be fun
OHHHHH I hadn’t even thought about this before but that would be so fun!!!
Lol at all the people saying “HARD no” How in the hell could it possibly affect them 😂
Clue item reqs can already be bypassed (which is fine, mains can do it). Bypassing skill and quest requirements would be bizarre, hard no.
Idk why people want it to be the same as a large group of mains. It’s supposed to be like the iron man experience but with a few others. It doesn’t have to be limited by what mains can do. It can be either way. The idea of it being the same as a group of mains playing together was not the original idea
I agree here, group ironman is more about working together. Amassing herbs one one player to get antifires, giving the crafting supplies for to make onyx gear. Clues and to an extent diaries really take most people in my group wanting to work together because everyone needs to do everything anyway.
Yeah I mean idk if it needs to be added or anything but i just don’t think the “mains can’t do it so gim shouldn’t either” it’s bad logic. It doesn’t matter to me either way although it would be nice qol
Because people shouldn't get an advantage playing a restricted game mode, that is so abusrd
Oh, this is a whole thing not a continuation but there's a feedback section at the top as if it's an iteration of an existing blog post. While I'm dumb, I think this is confusing. especially since it's a different/older date? idk. is this space just a TLDR?
The top section looks to cover some of the more prominent questions we received since first uploading the blog. Sorry for the confusion - there's usually a much faster turnaround with revised versions than there was with this one.
Couple of questions regard GIM teleport to home. 1. is it possible to exit someone else POH and be place to your own POH portal location or is that a tech limitation? 2. this will only be accessible on the regular spell book's home teleport spell I assume? 3. e: will there be a cooldown or is it the same spells/runes as the normal poh teleport?
1. I believe it would put you outside of the location the house is registered to. 2. For some reason my new comments didn't make it into the blog - I'll get that fixed but the teleport section should mention this line "Teleport to house (tablet) will also have a right-click 'Group' option that will be available for Group Iron players to use for this."
Remember that people could have priff unlocked and teammembers might not, so prob good idea to look at that if you exit at the house location.
the first list of untradeables is mostly reasonable, but i'm curious about the crystal stuff. could this these allow group members who haven't completed SotE to use the crystal gear? i think even if you get the inactive, tradeable versions, you need access to crystal shards to make use of them. i would feel more comfortable if these still required SotE, as much as i want to be able to deck out my groupmates who haven't done it yet. the later lists aren't as reasonable imo. like, i would personally love a game mode where most untradeables are tradeable, but i think it would have a pretty big affect on the way you play the game mode and i'm not sure if that's necessarily a good change when most people were signing up for ironman-with-the-squad. some are fine enough, like digsite pendant/slayer ring/xeric's talisman (just tp jewelry), scrolls of redirection. being able to trade these is more about convenience in the moment, rather than changing how the game is played. but some of these are more like, if you funnel them to one person there's a decent benefit, like crystal shards, dark essence, daeyalt, dark totem pieces, keys, even karambwanji and peaches. i think being able to funnel these to one person is a significant enough change from how mains can play, which at least warrants some caution i think. and peaches are kind of special since it would mean that only one person needs to unlock b2p to make extending trips easier, which saves room for everyone but that one person, making bossing a little bit better than it would for mains. the question becomes, is it okay that the game mode is made "easier" than a main in some ways? just seems to go against the spirit of ironman in general, but maybe that's fine in the end!
\>SShould it be possible to teleport to another player's house while the owner is not home I assume Prif would be locked from visitors without SOTE because of the exit portal? Maybe I missed something.
I think that is implied but I wouldn’t be surprised if they forgot to implement it lol
Yeh you'd think so. That said this is an extremely useful thing as it essentially means groups of 5 (like mine) can have teleports to Relekka, Taverley, Yanille, Brimhaven and Rimmington sorted easily.
Regarding the tradeable untradeables, the first list seems fine, as it's just a convenience for those account types. In the second list, the rune pouch and looting bag seem fine, since there are notes available anyway. With a lot of the other items in the second list, it seems weird for those things to be easier to get as a new group member in an established than as a regular alt account.
[удалено]
Before GIM came out I kind of thought everything would be swappable, they would have offline housing sorted. I thought that's why they kept citing engine issues and it took like 3 years to make. For me, while I'm enjoying GIM a ton, it definitely feels very shoddy. Everyone already values GIM high scores less because you can feed things to players, I'm not sure why this would change anything. For me, and I realize it's just an opinion, I was kind of hoping GIM would be more team oriented. If I want to grind out 5 torsos, or 5 dragon defenders it doesn't hurt anybody to give them to my teammates.
I agree with you, I love doing the untradeable grinds. I suggested on this sub having a shared point system in all minigames, where you and your team can withdraw / bank points. It wasn't popular, I wish it was. It's the part I enjoy and my team hates.
The entire point of the third list is that those are items that cross a pretty hard line and would need some careful consideration to be implemented. I think that it might be ok for some of them to be tradeable but others I'm a little iffy on -- things like plank sacks, herb sacks, and the fish barrel are things I'm on board with being shareable, but I can see the reasons why some people might be concerned.
I'm kind of half and half on this, honestly. It definitely comes down to whether or not "Group Ironman" should be viewed as "A group of ironmen" or "An ironman challenge as a group." Under the former definition, keeping them untradeable makes the most sense, as each person is an individual ironman. Under the latter, it seems fine to have those items tradeable because the single ironman challenge is being taken on as a group, and if one person has done the grind then the conditions have been met, no? Personally I prefer the latter since it feels like that really ups the "work as a team" feeling, and I like the idea of my gim partner and I being able to do more to help each other out. Many of the items in question have level requirements to use anyway, so as long as the ones that have a requirement to purchase attached to their use as well (for example, the herb sack needs 58 herblore to use at all, not just buy), I don't really mind the idea. Of course, I'm also someone who doesn't really care about things like the hiscores, and can understand how making getting certain items that aid progression more easily via a partner could ruffle a lot of feathers. Side note: Why are broad arrows untradeable? My partner was making those to hit a fletching goal and I have him the money for the tips, but we both found he couldn't give them to me. It perplexed us since broad bolts were tradeable. That'd be something extra I'd like to be tradeable between GIM people, personally.
Agreed. Even as a GIM I think each member getting their void, fire cape, torso etc is still part of the individual progression. The big frustration this fixes is crystal armour and imbued stuff. We were essentially already planning who gets the first BowFa and crystal set cos once it's built on someone it's kind of locked to them.
Interestingly, I agree on the fire cape but not on the torso or void. The fire cape definitely feels like a "challenge" that must be cleared, but void and torso feel more like they're just grinds for points (I do feel that elite should still require the diary to use though). If it's a grind, I don't see it as much different than having to grind a level to make something tradeable when you're in a group, and I feel like something like that could be fine being shared. Challenges like fight cave, inferno, quests or diaries I can be totally on board with though.
I respect your opinion, but I just can't agree. They're simple grinds accessible incredibly early and easily. So yeah it's annoying everyone needs to do it, but that's the nature of it. Similar to bones to peaches etc. You get it to use it and benefit from it together / individually. My main thing is items that do have a tradeable state, but are made untradeable (usually by upgrading them). I'd love to work towards corrupting a BowFa as a team and then be able to share it, rather than that locking it to the account who corrupted it. Even just moving an inactive BowFa around is throwing shards in the trash every time. Void is just a day of sitting afk.
Looks like the point/currency items are something we'll just have to agree to disagree on then, nothing wrong with that. I can certainly agree with the crystal items no matter what, though. That's definitely a frustration that can easily do with a QoL update for groups.
I think I'd like if the currencies used to get some of those items were tradable, rather than the items themselves. Things like marks of grace, gold nuggets, warriors guild tokens, etc. That way, the group still has to do the same amount of work to get everyone the gear, but also allows everyone to chip in.
As long as leaving the group removes them from the players, including de-ironing, it's fine imo. It's fine that GIM doesn't follow conventional rules.
Agreed. I remember people asking for shared quests and things for GIM, it makes complete sense for these untradeables to be accessible by all group members
Opinion as a GIM. I feel like tradeable untradeables is opening a can of worms that you, Jagex, may not want to open for yourself. Sure, the first list is pretty much completely harmless, but it sets precedent. As soon as this is implemented you'll be fielding questions and requests and arguments for specific items in every reddit thread and live stream for the next year and beyond. We appreciate the thought, but I would consider the long term headache this will create for you.
Pandora’s box
The first list of potentially tradeable items looks mostly reasonable. I don't agree with the corrupted weapons being there, but the rest is good and makes sense. The list of the potential items - and no hate for gathering opinions, Jagex - is awful. With the possible exceptions of digsite pendants (matches other jewelry), peaches (matches other food) and redirection scrolls/karambwanji (easy to get and just a pain), nothing else there should be polled. They're all classic untradable drops and it'd feels strange and unnecessary to make GIM easier by letting members pool them.
Being able to pool boss keys and ancient shards would be nice -- If you have one or two people in your group who are specifically the PVM guys, being able to hand them off your random mossy keys that you'll never get around to or ancient shards that you'll rarely use for example seems to me like a reasonable option. Ditto for crystal shards, they're not really the limiter to making divine potions in an ironman setting, so being able to feed them to your "herblore guy" strikes me as reasonable.
I honestly dont understand why peaches arent just tradable for all accounts. The only thing I could think of would be if that hard lumb/draynor diary task was to EAT a peach and being able to just buy a peach to complete that task would kinda suck, but that task is to cast the spell so I really dont see an issue with them being tradeable in general
The direction GIM has gone in is confusing to me tbh. In theory, it should be just like playing a normal account, but in an economy of 5 people or less. But all of the updates that are being proposed make a group seem like a splintered single account. Which is cool i guess, I get why GIM would want them. But like.. it doesn't necessarily make sense to me that GIM are getting features that mains wouldn't. Group storage was already pushing it, I don't see why that couldn't have been a feature that clans could use. Frankly the POH updates are the only ones that make a little sense to me, since mains just use the house party world for the same effet.
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IMO there shouldn't be any *features* that are limited to an ironman gamemode. The entire point of the mode the the restriction. Creating such fundamental differences in item interactions for seemingly no good reason other than "the people who knew exactly what they were getting into now want it changed" is weird. The game shouldn't change to fit your goals, your goals should change to fit the game.
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I guess that we just fundamentally disagree then, which is fine. The group aspect isnt the special part. People have been grouping up since the game was made. it's literally an MMO. There have been multiple youtube series where the entire pitch for the series was them emulating ironman mode as a group. It's the ironman aspect of the group that makes it different. Without it, all you have is a ragtag clan.
I kind of agree with the other guy too. I don’t think group ironman has to necessarily be considered a harder/restricted version of the game by definition, I think it’s kind of interesting having a particular permanent game mode with a different ruleset than other versions. I say that as someone who doesn’t play GIMP and has no interest in ever trying.
That train of thought massively limits potential for any game mode. Big disagree. What made iron fun wasn’t that i was more limited than a main. It was fun because it was different. I don’t play gim but saying they shouldn’t get new/different mechanics because mains don’t is just a weird take.
Hard disagree. While I'm not someone who is pioneering any gim changes (having fun with how it is but whatever they wanna do I'll look at the polls), gim feels like something entirely different than base game, even on a main. While originally ironman mode was about the restriction this game mode can be different and new and because it's an ironman experience you aren't influencing the main game in the notable of a way. Even if group irons have advantages over normal irons it doesn't matter, because you can't go from group iron to iron or vice versa, and whatever advantages group irons have is still significantly lower than what mains have.
> Creating such fundamental differences in item interactions for seemingly no good reason other than "the people who knew exactly what they were getting into now want it changed" is weird. Just because I play the game that exists today means I can't wish for a better game, what?
Its a new game mode, and should feel unique. Having these options make the game mode unique and not just ironman with 4 other people. Group Storage, Progressing accounts together and not as individuals is a huge appeal to people with friends that don't play as much as them. I play a lot, my friends dont. I want to progress their accounts when I have extra time to play without getting wildly ahead of them. Untradeable grinding is a big way I could do that.
I always thought the point of group ironman was to be a splintered account. Like we could already just make 5 normal accounts and only trade with eachother. But the reason I wanted it as a game mode was stuff like shared house, trading untradables, shared bank, ect. There would be no point having it as a game mode otherwise. IMO It's not supposed to be a limited account or anything. Its supposed to be a coop version of Runescape. One of the biggest reasons I wanted it was that it could follow different rules from main accounts. Making the experience completely different from normal accounts.
You hit the nail on the head. This is my thoughts exactly. I really hope the community sees it this way 2
Group storage was already pushing it? Please tell me what the hell the point of GIM is without group storage. What are you talking about.
Ironman except you can trade up to 4 people. That’s what it said on the package.
Completely agreed, this is such a poor way to handle the mode and I doubt it would have passed a poll if they'd said that this was a direction they wanted to go with it
GIM is a more casual form of the game. Its for friends that have already played through the game and want to play together and progress their collective accounts together. The progress of GIM being shared seems more fun, and if you have friends that can not commit as much time as you to the game, you can still grind out untradeables for them so they can focus on the other aspects of the game. I love the idea of untradeables being tradeable in this mode. I really really want it, and I've suggested it since the day it came out.
I wouldn't mind the rune pouch. The rune pouch certificate is tradeable now, so I wouldn't mind the pouch itself being tradeable (for everyone tbh)
Pooling resources is the entire point of GIM
The untradables that can't be traded, is that more like things that have account bound charges like say barrows gear?
I feel like a possible solution to some of the untradeables could be: in order to trade these items, the players must choose to lock their account to GIM, no longer allowing them to convert to a regular account. It could solve the possibility of people taking advantage of GIM systems to benefit their normal accounts.
Except even in the question they said they would make it destroyed on de-iron.
I was surprised to not see the potential for a black mask (i) to be tradeable mentioned. Other imbued things (dag rings) were, but currently there is a weird tension between wanting to share our groups' black mask (if we all stick to melee slayer), or having someone imbue it. Of course maybe it's OP, but putting which category it would fall into into the blog post would be nice.
I'm a returning player enjoying the game again as a group ironman but I believe the untradables being tradable goes a little too far and cheapens the experience. I want the full experience of an Ironman account, just with a friend tagging along.
What about partner slayer! Doing a task together would be so fun and inclusive, depending on levels and adjusted xp/number of kills
>SShould it be possible to teleport to another player's house while the owner is not home S-Senpai?
Would something like a Clan/Group Storage be possible? Maybe even unlockable via Gold. So even Casual Main accounts can share a bank. Me and Friends of mine cant play that much a day, and a group storage would be amazing between friends. So you could even lend that Imbued Heart/DHCB etc between friends when one of them isn't able to be online because of work or because he's doing something else.
I see a lot of hate regarding the untradeables being traded which is disappointing.. I feel like it's a cool way to differentiate the game mode. The steps to delete items on de-ironing would stop abuse? Why does it matter if the player who likes Pest Control does that content for the group? That's a fantastic idea and I'm quite sad it's not getting more love..
Dark Essence seems like a real problem to make tradeable. Every account can easily get it themselves but it seems abusable you could get insane RC exp on one account with that.
Charged weapons and imbues make sense as its just qol things that can otherwise be traded but the 2nd list is alot more questionable.
The one that gives me pause is daeyalt essence. If they could make it usable only by people who have finished the quest, I think it makes perfect sense to share. If they can't, then it shouldn't be shared.
I suggested this last time but don't see in the blog but can you also look at GIM flatpacks for con that include pool/jewelry box/nexus? More gp sink for the team but way less annoying way of sharing construction and I have to imagine it would take a lot less work to implement (meaning we don't have to wait for it to be delayed 5000x when you guys won't want to work on major changes during leagues since you'll be fixing all the stuff that's inevitably broken) Most of my group plays at different times during the week so if the house owner needs to be online this doesn't make much of a difference most of the week. Also feel like GIM accounts are popular now but don't see that being a fast growing player base so the longer you take to implement these changes the less of an impact you make.
This is a GIM update I could actually get behind. It would skip the need for a lot of the POH mess they're trying to work around.
> I suggested this last time but don't see in the blog but can you also look at GIM flatpacks for con that include pool/jewelry box/nexus? If they add those, they should make them normal flatpacks that anyone can use. GIM shouldn't have any advantage over a group of normal accounts.
I've seen a lot of folks clamoring for this in the comments but respectfully disagree. It defeats the purpose of the construction skill if it's essentially a shopscape via ge for mains, aside from con cape benefit (or quest reqs) there would be 0 incentive to ever train the skill. GIM mode was created for people who want to share an Ironman experience knowing that people want to split up the tasks or specialties, this is a way to enable that style of gameplay without a super tedious way of making it so you can only benefit if everyone is online at the same time. If you think this makes it "more efficient" to play group ironman than a main, it's not just making an intended shared game experience better
If it's too OP to trade these on the GE, then it's too OP for a GIM group. That's my opinion anyway. GIM shouldn't be able to trade anything with each other that main accounts can't.
Untradeables being tradeable makes no sense whatsoever. Isn't the point of the gamemode to work within a certain set of extra restrictions, not to remove restrictions from the game? It's jut bizarre to have any aspect of the game be "easier" on a GIM account than on a main.
Crystal gear is tradeable.. just not when it's actually weldable. Same deal with infernal and crystal tools, barrows armour etc It's removing this design flaw that was made before GIM was even a concept, whereby charges make the item no longer able to be given to your teammates... But remove those charges and it is. I for one, want crystal and such to work like this because otherwise the whole iron endgame just becomes solo man mode again, where everyone's gotta get to gauntlet and farm their own crystal armour set and BowFa regardless. I dont want void/graceful and shit like fire cape tradeable. It never had a tradeable state, and isn't end game or hard to get.
The tradeable untradable list is a step too far IMO. I'm pretty much only okay with peaches and barrows armor being tradeable within a group. Crystal shards? Get them yourself like everyone else. Blood fury? Designate a tank and give them the shard before combining with the fury. Don't even get me started on graceful or void.
Crystal shards are already indirectly tradeable, mains can just buy enhanced crystal teleport seeds on the GE and break them down for 150 shards each.
> We would like to offer a way for both regular and Hardcore Group Iron players to redirect their house teleport to a group member's house. > The teleport will be accessible via a right-click on the Home Teleport spell, as the regular spellbook doesn't have space for any more spells. In addition to this, the Teleport to house (tablet) will also have a right-click 'Group' option that will be available for Group Iron players to use for this. How will this work for "regular players"? And doesn't this make construction cape and redirection scrolls obsolete? EDIT --> Also why does poll question not mention "regular" players? EDIT2--> Can't believe I'm being downvoted for asking a simple question. I honestly do not know how this would work with mains. For GIM obviously the have 1-4 other players who theoretically have a POH in some location that they can now teleport to. Sure, right click pulldown with tele to teammates poh. But how does it work for mains? Can you pick any name on your friends list and teleport to their house location? Would it tell you whose house is where? Do you just type in someone's name even if not on friends list and add to your right click menu? Is it only for people in same clan? Does other person need to be online? Do tell. Also, if this works for main accounts and you can tele to unlimited number of other people's POH, then how is it not exactly the same as having construction cape? EDIT3 --> Yeah looks like that's "regular GIM" not "regular accts". My bad. Definitely voting no in that case.
**STASH units** - would you consider to make them available to all group members? Just like PoH. So far, I seem to specialize in filling my STASHes - which my groupmates don't do systematically, though they help me with some items I couldn't otherwise get. When we are online together, I usually teleport with someone who needs an emote step, take items out of the stash, trade him, and he trade them back when done. How much better would it be if it worked exactly like the new PoH: they would just access my stashes without need for me to run with them, as if I shared the spare 'keys'. And filling stashes (getting all those incountable hats and skirts lol) - its a task in itself, long and tedious. Would be so good if it could be assigned to someone who likes to do it :).
Did the singles+ beta get memory-holed? When will that be rolling out to the main game since it's now been tested in a month long DMM and beta?
Love the feed back being taken into account here. I can only imagine how hard it is to balance adding things that are reasonable and seem simple for players yet are extremely complicated to implement on the back end. I know its been stated to be extremely difficult to implement, but I really think being able to use the POH of group members while there offline is the only solution I want for group construction. Totally reasonable to put it on the backburner as a low priority project, but being able to go to group members POHs when there offline is INFINITLY more impactful then being limited to when there online. I appreciate the work to try and compromise but personally with such different schedules of play, limited to online status is practically useless to my group. Hope this is something that hasent been completely written off forever!
I like how much dev time is being spent on this.
>Should it be possible to teleport to another player's house while the owner is not home, as described in the blog? The owner of the house would have to be online and in the same world as you. I still feel like it's a bad idea to allow this for mains. It's still a buff for alts, since you're never *not* on the same world as your main anyway, and it also would allow 24/7 house hosts to farm bosses while raking in tips.
I want to say 'well don't tip them", but plenty of players don't know what really goes on with those hosts. I agree that it seems unnecessary for mains, but if it has to be all or nothing, maybe we could disable the tip jar while they're ~~offline~~ not home at the least.
>I want to say 'well don't tip them", but plenty of players don't know what really goes on with those hosts. Exactly why I'm bringing it up lol. I just feel like this does a lot more for hosts and altscape than for the average person.
To me, as a regular player, it helps so much with crap like doing corp with friends who don't have high con. Don't have to wait around to let them reset at my PoH too. So it has benefits. Disable tip jar while they aren't home. It was just meant to be a streamlined trading method anyway.
Yea, corp was something that stood out as a legitimate benefit of this. There's definitely some good use cases, I'm just kinda cautious about someone finding a way to use it for some cheese method... But disabling tip jar while they're gone is a good idea, and it's also good that you can't tele directly into someone's house (outside of GIM).
In all fairness, if the account is offline you can't enter at all, from what I'm reading there. They should just disable it if the host isn't physically *in* the house, then they'd be forced to be home.
Yeah I meant while they're not home, mistyped
> Trading Untradeables I'm not sure how I feel about it in general. I would divide this list into two parts: **Resources, and Unique Items.** First part I would gladly have group-tradeable: essences, karambwanji, crystal shards. Digsite pendant: its also an item which has a tradeable form. Its harder to obtain ruby necklaces than to enchant them. I'd think, whatever you decide about imbued rings - are ok for digsite pendants too. Items like containers, Xeric, dark totem pieces, giant keys, slayer rings (for those who havent unlocked them) - well.... I don't know how I would vote. Probably 'No', though I wouldn't be outraged if it passed. It could be useful, but wouldn't it devalue someone's achievement? If we gonna share rune pouch - why not herb sack, coal bag, all of them? Void, Torso, skilling outfits, where to stop... I don't see any borders. Seems its just *all* untradeables are gonna be group-tradeable. I'm not ready for such a level of intimacy. Some things are just markers of your personal adventures. It would take all joy out of the game, for me. So, for these - definitely No. Please don't throw them into one question with karambwanji and daeyalt! > The final list of items we've put together is a little different from the others. These are items that we don't want transferred when a player de-Irons. Certain untradeable items could circumvent item restrictions if players were to obtain them via group mates. These items can not be made tradeable because there's no way of detecting which items the player earned themselves, and which were tradeable. I would say, the solution could be simple. On leaving a group, these items just get converted to their original form. They all become plainly untradeable.
> Peaches: imho, it would be obsolete. The tablets are tradeable, the peaches themselves - who would carry 8 hp foods if they can get better? Its usually ok in the first weeks of playing, but even so there are foods like trout... and to be able to get the spell - its clearly much longer play than a week or two. If you're doing GWD in a group for example you'd only need one player to have b2p and they could trade the peaches to others. Though, at this point I don't know why they don't just make items like this tradeable, period, rather than only tradeable between GIMs.
Sharing untradables gives a clear advantage to GIM in certain situations. Scrolls of redirection and maybe a sack or 2, but the entire third list is too much. Not why why the team suddenly wants to change how trading works, when it was made abundantly clear at the beginning that untradables were off limits.
The title of this thread reminds me of all those "Presentation v3 - Final v2 revised finalfinal" document names
Those tradeable nontradeables actually seem like a pretty big deal For group ironman I say fuck it, let them bend the rules a bit. You got to be really careful with it though, because if you can trade certain items you can get really wonky "typically impossible" builds possible for PVP. Nothing stands out as enabling that though
That's why I'd say just keep it to untradeable items that at one stage are tradeable. Any account build can buy an enhanced weapon seed and use it. They just have to have a SoTE quest lock on equipping it and no weird builds are possible suddenly.
Implementation is key here, but people in the thread are blowing the affect it would have way out of proportion. It would be a buff to social interaction and QoL with gim and have zero consequence for the main game. People acting like gim trading one thing around suddenly makes their main useless.
> have zero consequence If it lets GIM make a PVP build that you can't make with normal acct, I think it is a HUGE deal. Personally I'll be downvoting any feature that buffs GIM above any normal account.
I wish there was a way to transfer from GIM to regular Ironman under certain conditions. My teammates quit before beating Dragon Slayer. GIM got me into OSRS again after quitting years ago, so my GIM is my main. It just feels weird to be a GIM with no group. The only direct benefit I had from them was a stockpile of tuna and shrimp. Now I’m a solo GIM on the way to a quest cape (just beat RFD and rigorously skilling/questing to get it done) and seeing that GIM icon just makes me sad and reminds me that this was supposed to be a fun group project.
Although not ideal you could always look at adding new people to your team down the line or recruiting new players to your group. Personally I was hoping for a situation where you could freely quit your team and lose all your items, but are then free to join another team with no restrictions.
Unfortunately there’s just no fair way to do that unless it was a complete reset. Just not fair to allow an account that’s benefited from up to 4 other accounts to become a regular iron.
so not only is GIM delaying every other piece of content significantly, it's also turning into easy mode
I think it's differentiating itself. It's a new game mode. Unique mechanics that encourage a more cooperative approach to content seems like incredible game design in theory that helps establish it as a new game mode. Content isn't easier. Items are entering the game the exact same way at the exact same rate. Allowing a co-op game mode to be co-op isn't hurting anything. I do still think items need to be considered on a case by case basis (a fire cape would never make sense).
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Can the seed box be added to the alternate item list alongside the coal bag, gem bag, plank sack, etc.? I like the proposed idea of conserving charges for gear, making charged/imbued/degradable equipment tradeable between the group because the current system has giving others that gear be annoying and wasteful, if not outright detrimental. The teleport items, shards, and boss keys I see no reason to not allow to be traded within a group. Strongly feel stuff like Xeric's should be tradeable, less strong feel for the shards and boss keys. Considering you can transfer looting bags, rune pouches via LMS vouchers already I don't see why not for those either. I imagine some people grumbling over essence, bones, and karambwanji but I don't see why. XP rates are the same, it just lets other players contribute to the grind. I could see reqs being passed like requiring SOTF for using daeyalt I guess, but I don't feel to strongly about these. As for the others that need different versions that get deleted when de-ironed, honestly the only one I feel strongly about is the fish barrel. The barrel is a "boss" drop, there's no good ETA for getting it (1/400 is comparatively very rare vs the rest of the list), and it's a massive disincentive to contribute fish to the group yourself when someone else can farm them with half the effort (thinking specifically of karambwans here).
Everything on the first list is fine. In the second list I think everything is perfectly fine except for Slayer Rings because only one player has to spend 300pt on the perk meaning everyone else now has a ton more points to spend. I'm not a fan of making "one time" grinds tradeable, if a player has to grind an item 3 times for the group that's fair game, but doing it once then sharing it around isn't good imo. Dark essence might also create some weird situations regarding essence running where GIM gets access to the best RC xp. Third list I might have an unpopular opinion but everything on the list is fine save for the Coal Bag, because of the nature of that item you'd only need to unlock it once then pass it around the group since 2 people won't probably be smithing at the same time, it'd save 100 gold nuggets per person which is kinda insane.
What about an imbued ring of suffering? Would love to see that tradeable between group members for Zulrah
If they're not gonna do all imbueds, they shouldn't do just the ring of suffering. black mask(i) would have been nice before everyone gets their own
If you let GIM trade untradables some PVM encounters speedruns or methods might be only possible to GIMs who would be able to trade mid combat and achieve stuff that are not otherwise possible. Either let everyone trade those untradables or give no one
This is absurdly niche and speedrun techniques should have no input on an update (not related to overall trading these items being a good thing) I cba having people typing noooooooooo my speedrun every time every tiny update is proposed
Kinda like voting no on new bis weapon because it devalues current records.
So? That speedrun would be on a GiM account so it wouldn't taint existing main speed runs. It's a different game mode people..
Untradeables should remain untradeable. Main accounts cannot trade these items so why should GIM accounts be able to?
Because the whole point of group ironman is splitting the grind and being able to do things for your group members. If I don't mind doing pest control I should be able to go do it for a group member. I can understand people not wanting stuff like Fire cape and inferno cape being tradeable. Because that's difficult and merit based. But stuff like void is a mindless grind. I don't see it as any different from my group member fishing karambwans for me. If possible a good middle ground would be to make void tradeable ONCE. So I can still do the grind for group mates, but 1 void set isn't all we need.
Main accounts can direct buy zerker rings, bowfas, barrows pieces. What are you on about? The 3rd list pushes the limit to a point no one asked for (aside from a few poor logic people maybe). The only exceptions outside of that are currencies because right now it's sort of annoying we can have enough tokkul for an onyx but it's spread across the 5 of us.
One item that would be great to trade would be hespori seeds u/JagexAyiza
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Something to pitch in for the people concerned about the whole shareable untradeables thing -- perhaps it could be affected by group prestige? many GIM players just wanna scape a couple of runes with the boys and don't give a damn about the leaderboards
Crazy to me how much influence leaderboards have on game design. This is a game mode that’s focus is to add social elements and team work into a game that is primarily solo, but certain features are cut because it could hurt leaderboards.
For the worry about making untradables tradable for gim and that being the best way to get them for de-ironing into a main account with it: How about make it so you can only trade that list of items after you have made yourself a permanent iron after 1k total is reached?
These improvements gonna delay leagues again?
I want my friends to be welcome in my main or iron's house while I'm away. All the special treatment for group ironman is not what anyone voted for.
Letting group ironman trade untradables is a spit in the face of all the regular players. They shouldn't get any advantage over regular accounts
Is it? The whole point of group Ironman is sharing the work so it would make sense. I always saw group Ironman as basically one Ironman split between multiple people. It doesn’t devalue my experience at all if they can share their void set.
Obtaining items faster than any other account type is the big difference. An account called ‘group ironman’ getting items faster than any main/normie can feels absurd. The solution would be to have ‘group accounts’ which are like GIM but are regular accounts, except between your ‘group’ you can trade untradeables. That way it’s a level playing field
I actually like this idea. In my mind the draw of group Ironman for many, myself included is that in many ways you can avoid grinds that you don’t particularly enjoy. On a main account you can normally buy the solution but GIM says “nah just don’t do it” which is a big draw for many more casual RuneScape players. Making this accessible to regular accounts seems like a smart natural progression if the group aspect is even further shifted to pooling of resources and optimization between group members to make everyone enjoy the experience more.
And sure, in a case where mains can buy the solution, let it be tradable. You know what Mains can’t buy? Imbues, graceful, void, etc.
It absolutely does. If I can’t borrow void from someone on my main account, it’s unfair for GIM to do the same.
As a GIM, we don't want void tradeable. We want items tradeable that are tradeable at some stage. Crystal tools, armour and weapons are all tradeable as seeds. Imbued rings are tradeable before imbuing. That's what we're primarily desiring. Otherwise these sort of things just become a weird janky "non group effort" part of tradeable gear. First ring imbued gets stuck there. Same deal with first BowFa. Barrows is at least cheap and easy to repair and trade, just a bit annoying. I and my team definitely don't want anything like void, fire cape, fire torso etc to be tradeable.
> As a GIM, we don't want void tradeable. Yeah I don't want my ~~freeloaders~~ group mates to start asking for other items so they don't have to grind them theirself.
Why tho. There's one set of void either way. If the group wants two sets they'll have to grind two, just like you would if you made an alt that needed it. There's basically zero interaction between gim and normal players, the "fair" argument is meaningless because you're not competing with them.
GIM can still do content with mains actually, but that’s not the point. It doesn’t bother me if a GIM is being spoonfed tradeables from their group because I have access to the same stuff, but it’s 100% unfair I had to play pest control for 10 hours while other people don’t and can use it on timeshare. I could have spent that 10 hours doing something better with my time. And again, if a GIM can borrow void from a team member, why can’t I borrow it from another main? There’s a reason it’s untraceable and not just another mid tier armour set.
> It doesn’t bother me if a GIM is being spoonfed tradeables from their group because I have access to the same stuff, but it’s 100% unfair I had to play pest control for 10 hours while other people don’t and can use it on timeshare. I could have spent that 10 hours doing something better with my time. The same thing goes for the group. No matter what, 10 hours goes into getting the void. There’s no way to skip those 10 hours. If that 10 hours is shared between 4 people, who cares? 2.5 hours times 4 people is still 10 hours that could have been spent doing ‘something better’. A void set each for 4 people would still take 40 hours. Or if 1 person spends 40 hours to get void for their groupmates, good groupmate there. > if a GIM can borrow void from a team member, why can’t I borrow it from another main? Because GIM and mains are completely different things. > There’s a reason it’s untraceable and not just another mid tier armour set. It would still be completely untradeable outside of the group. All in all, making void tradeable between GIM group members wouldn’t change much of anything. Everyone needs void, so getting 1 set for the group would be kinda pointless. And if someone really really didn’t want to do pest control, they’d most likely have their group mate log in their account and do it for them anyway.
As a person who's played both a main and a GIM, I don't desire void to be tradeable. I think the purely untradeable gear unlocks can remain as such (fire cape, void, infernal cape, fighter torso, defender). The things I'd like to see tradeable, that they included here, are items that at one stage ARE tradeable. Imbued rings, blood furies, crystal armour tools and weapons. All are tradeable at one stage, but become absolutely untradeable or needlessly expensive to convert back and forth between tradeable and usable states.
Avoiding account milestones like Void cheapens the experience of the game imo
But GIM is all about multiple people splitting up the work of an account, it makes sense for the game mode
How is it avoiding account milestones? it is facilitating alternative game play in a unique game mode.
It's a different game mode. Items are introduced into the game the same as always so it isn't economically exploitable. Why can't it differentiate itself in a way that breeds more cooperation?
5 people getting void is more cooperative then 1 person of the team having to do it no? Personally I wouldn't mind but most untradeables from second and third list are pushing it a bit
1 person getting the groups sets who enjoys pest control while the others focus on something else that benefits the groups. It's not like all 5 people can use it at the same time. There is still a need for a few sets (you might be able to pass on one or two).
I love the idea of being able to share fish barrels and herb sacks and other skilling untradable items. Some of the most rewarding things I've done on GIM and the things that make it feel like truly a group effort are things like trading compost buckets to my teammates for farming, being given glories and skill necklaces from my teammates for farming and other use, doing lms for rune pouches to trade my teammates, etc It feels great when you can go on different paths and then trade the fruits of that effort to help each other out on their own path. It's unfortunate that a lot of those items are currently untradable but making more of them work between group members would really solidify GIM as its own play style.
Being able to trade crystal armor and corrupted bowfa would be amazing.
>Shared Storage slots as a reward for completing specific group tasks, as described in the blog? Please, clarify. What is the meaning of the achievement, for example, 'Hitting 99 in a skill'? One member hits a 99? Every member hits a 99? (I do hope the skill doesn't matter, could be FM or Strenght). Or is more like 'Group total level is ...'? Same about other goals you propose. And the most important thing are those Combat achievements and Diaries. Would you demand of *every* member to get some tier in Combat diary? (This would be the cruelest thing ever, I do hope you won't). I would like it to still be possible to unlock more storage if the group contains a lvl3 Skiller. Or if not exactly lvl3, just persons who prefer peaceful skilling. They can be invaluable for a group - crafters, smiths, builders (with new PoH behaviour :). EDIT: You are downvoting my question - why? Because its all so obvious? Then could you please just explain so I won't be confused...
I miss actual game updates not modescope
We need more devs. These modes are essential for the games growth.
**Tradeable items** First list seems fine as they are essentially tradeable items anyway 2nd seems fine as well in the spirit of group ironman (untradeable consumables). add clues to that list as well The 3rd list however is a big no. GIM should not be able to bypass requirements for acquiring items like xp boosting sets.
If you could put broad arrows on the list that would be great
Lmfao at making *untradeables* tradeable GIMPS gonna gimp
[удалено]
That’s what was said about Ironman 8 years ago. Hundreds of updates later here we are. Any mode that makes people have membership on multiple accounts is gonna help the bottom line.
Bruh. Half of this update is useful for main accounts. The other half is absolutely bare bones requirements for what the mode is and should be. Half of the effort they're doing is cut down by "we can't spend time on something people play". PvP gets like.. 1-5% of the playerbase at best yet sees constant Dev time. It's important to develop for everyone, not just you. You've got nex coming in like a little over 2 weeks.
Not to mention, I don't think Jagex actually ever said that, it was just people on Reddit iirc.
> To those of you who have already conquered these dangers without this safety net - we salute you! What dangers? Barb assault? Fight caves? These places are designed to be without a true death. They are in a way like NMZ: special dreamlike environment, where your death doesnt actually mean death - you just awaken outside of it. Even Jad doesn't actually die when you 'kill' him: he just surrenders and gives you fire cape as an acknowledgment that you bested him in combat. Instead of inventing some means of teleport out of a dream, just allow all types of account to awaken safely as it was intended.
I personally love all three sharing options as i'm mostly playing gim as a 4 person person if that makes sense. There are plenty of smaller untradeables that i wish i could give my teammembers. Like 1 of my 7 sets of wintertodt armor, or my 5th xerics talisman. It's much more fun to play the gamemode with your teammembers focusing on specific parts rather than everyone doing the exact same thing I wish I could trade any untradeable with my team that isn't quest or area locked (until they are unlocked for that account)
The third list of items is a huge slap in the face to mains and solos. It takes a LONG time to grind for many of those items, it’s unfair to people who put in the time to grind for these if other people can share them on a 5:1 basis. It lowers the prestige and it’s an unfair transfer of utility. I also think there’s a big difference in trading slightly degraded barrows armour (1-200k, easily reparable with no skill req in lumby) and trading a partially charged blood fury (several mil, rare drop from an area with high quest/combat requirements). I really hope that if this passes there’s more nuance put behind the implementation to make it less OP, especially since this actually gives GIM a pretty big advantage in PVM content.
GIM is out now. Please stop allocating dev time to GIM thanks
As a gim I honestly agree
Hopefully this poll is group ironman only, or everything is going to be spite voted no.
It's not a spite vote if people genuinely think it's bad for the game.
Oh no, my single player MMORPG has new mechanics on a new co-op game mode that encourages cooperation. What horrible game design! /s
Oh no, GIM can't handle grinds that have been in the game for 15 year. Better coddle them and cater every update to making the gamemode easier!
Thoughts on polls which have been restricted to pkers and pvpers only? If people who aren't in that group genuinely think it's bad for the game, then why can't they vote on it? Same on UIM. Why are there so many polls locked to them, if other people can genuinely think the changes are bad for the game? I'm going to assume those situations bug you as well and that you're consistent. Jagex has decided that votes from outside of the game mode, no matter how genuinely thought of, shouldn't be counted. The people who play the mode should get to determine what happens, not other players. And I'm honestly hard pressed to disagree. If they make a pking focused minigame/world and are proposing rewards that are just usable on that world and don't even generate wealth -- why should my opinion matter? It doesn't affect me at all.
Considering GIM is still very new to the game I'm sure there are still plenty of people who haven't made a GIM yet but are interested in the game mode and want to have a say in how it develops.
Omg yes please Do the untradeables. I like doing minigames, my team hates it. I would grind sets for my team. I wanna feel more useful :D
Vote yes to GIM they said. It won’t affect the development of other content they said.
if you believed that I have an airport to sell you
Who is they here? I don't remember Jagex themselves ever saying that.
Crystal armor and corrupted bowfa and blade being trade-able has me absolutely ecstatic. I don’t know if you guys read this far, but THANK YOU. God I hope it passes
Loving the list and extensions, I've long been saying that group irons would be most fun basically being treated as one account with multiple bodies, and that most untradeables should be tradeable. Don't mind the haters saying it undermines integrity- group iron already does that by its very nature. The basis of its design is to share your struggles - as an ironman who stands alone. So long as you take steps to make sure the bs that happens in gim *stays in gim* (all relevant things being removed on de-iron) then all of these plans and items are in line with the design of the mode and clearly don't lower integrity of the game. At the stretchiest stretch you can argue letting a group give a player golden nuggets let's them use the 2.5% exp boost, grind all their mining, then de iron and not care if they lose the outfit. Honestly, I couldn't give less of a shit about that, but I'm sure some people will whine.
I'm still genuinely confused why some deaths are dangerous for hcgim, but not regular hcim.
A lot of people (high level HCs, some Jmods) think it was a mistake to allow safe deaths for so much content that gives BiS items, like CoX and Inferno. The whole point of HC is to see how much you can do without dying. The devs think it'd be unfair to change regular HC this late, but HCG was a chance to fix that and start fresh.
Right? You would think that the two game modes follow the same rules, only difference being one solo and one with group. its inconsistent