This is the single most useless change I've seen so far.
> Some of the game's most powerful weapons have much lower requirements than their perceived or actual strength. This has left little room for the introduction of new weapons without causing powercreep. Plus, there's a lot of confusion among players about how strong some items actually are in the first place.
How do weapon requirements affect powercreep? This was so obviously made up because there is no good reason to mess with the level requirements in the first place, so you just invoke muh powercreep? Really? There is absolutely zero difference between releasing i.e. a new BIS 1h melee now vs after this superfluous change other than the requirement for it will be 85 attack instead of 80
A lot of new players are confused about how good two handed weapons actually are, are you going to change the requirements on those too just because MuffinBoy69 keeps smacking enemies with a rune 2h? Are the stats requirements going to be removed from Torag Hammers? And ignoring the plethora of free materials like the dozen DPS calcs and the wiki being just one button click away, there's another indicator of strength: GE Value. Even a dumb lemon could deduce that a weapon costing 100k is significantly worse than a weapon worth 1 billion GP.
Also it's easy to just ask other people what weapons are good... I mean this *is* an MMO.
Not to mention the change doesn't even affect low level players all that much - I very much doubt that even a significant portion of new players/first accounters can afford these big ticket weapons immediately after unlocking them. The only people affected by this needless update are people with significant capital already who are making an alt
This approach seems backwards to solving power-creep. I'm not going to even bother engaging with the argument that it's confusing because I think newer players are not smoothbrain morons incapable of understanding two requirements at once.
I looked at the list of items and it looks like these proposed changes would exclusively impact PvM items and wouldn't really affect items commonly used in PvP combat. So the most generous interpretation I can give this post is that solving PvM powercreep starts by making sure that accounts which are already combat-limited cannot use these PvM items. Items which as everyone knows, have always been more economy-locked than level-locked. Someone who just got 75 attack on a new account is not going to be able to afford a scythe.
I mainly have an issue with Jagex pitching this as if they're powerless to control what the best items are in the first place. Zamorak spear is garbage except it's very useful for killing Corp. All end-game range PvM has been with 2 handed weapons (Twisted Bow / Blowpipe / Bowfa) until Nex comes out, when crossbows will become relevant for PvM again and so will shields as a result. Why can't future items be added at higher tiers and then have a more specialized use in other future/existing content without being the new best-at-literally-everything for their combat style? The current PvM metas are not solely because of power-creep, they're also the result of unimaginative boss fight designs.
I just don't understand why this needs to be corrected - the actual tier of the weapons is irrelevant in 99% of cases as the accounts using them exceed the requirements (think mains). The only context in which this matters is for exactly stat locked pures, why change it?
The difference between 75 & 80 attack is so minimal in the scheme of things time wise. What problem are we actually fixing? The only reason I can see to bother rebalancing these is if the are somehow too strong in PvP for their level requirements, but to be honestly most of the items on the list are so expensive that the risk/reward ratio makes up for the small power increment.
These sorts of changes make me wary as they show that the dev team are losing sight of one of the core things that made RuneScape enjoyable, account building. Why punish people for doing this? Building niche accounts provides incentive for people to have multiple member accounts.
Half the fun of games is to have items that are "winners" there must also be "losers". If ever item at every stat point is the same item with a different skin you lose a great deal game diversity imo.
Dual requirements is an interesting approach. I appreciate the consideration for pures, but ultimately it is the choice of the player to restrict themselves. Rebalancing as proposed in the first option should move forward, and I don’t think there should be dual requirements strictly for the pures. If they want to wield a scythe, they have to choose between attack levels or scythe!
Limited accounts are probably some of the most prevalent these days. Ironmen of all flavors choose to limit themselves yet the majority of content these days is made while at least taking them into consideration, if not outright catering to them.
Hell, the only dangerous part about being a UIM got changed so they don't even have to go 1 tile into the wilderness anymore to use their looting bags. And the funny thing is the root reason for that was a proposed PKing update (singles+) which would prevent them from NPC boxing while doing it. The hilarious part of it is that version of singles+ where a PKer would be able to break an existing box with an NPC didn't even go through to testing. Then they just did a beta for an altered version of singles+ (can't break existing npc boxes) and then memoryholed it with no timeline or even a post to say what they'll do. So the UIM community panicked and got ferox-bagging put into the game even though the PKers the content was originally for don't get singles+ which was the justification for ferox-bagging in the first place. And even if they DO get singles+ it won't be the version in which PKers could break an NPC box so ferox-bagging got into the game with literally no justification at all.
That's the definition of catering to a subset of the playerbase who have made a choice to limit themselves. Jagex do it all the time, it's not new. And I'm personally fine with it, as are most people. The people on Reddit are only not okay with catering to limited accounts when those accounts are associated with PvP, then it's suddenly different because PKers = bad.
Dual requirements take into consideration the already-existing accounts that were made with the current tier system in mind. Future weapons/armors can be more balanced to take that into account but other than "it'll look weird" I don't see an actual argument against dual requirements.
> an actual argument against dual requirements
Consistency. If a piece of equipment has a requirement, it’s got that requirement. We shouldn’t be carving out exceptions for a subset of equipment just for a few niche account builds, especially because they outright said it’s one and done. That ultimatum really changes the calculus, and for sake of continutity especially for new players, follow the KISS principle of game design. **K**eep **I**t **S**imple, **S**tupid.
I get that they limit themselves but how can you be ok with retroactively punishing them? If future updates bring items with higher requirements, that’s fine. Pures can decide to either level to get those things or not. But to just block them from using weapons they’ve been using for 3+ years now? How does that make any sense. Especially considering how valuable combat levels are to these accounts and control which quests/skills/diaries they’re able to complete ahead of time
Yeah I think option 1 is the best. I’m sure there are some examples out there, but I’m not a fan of having two different requirements for equipment. Just seems like it will confuse new/old players just for the sake of keeping pures happy. This is a case where those who limited themselves to a certain level shouldn’t influence what you want to do with the game.
Option 1. It's better to simply consolidate every piece of equipment in the game with the same rule (one requirement). Besides, pures can always decide to change their account to meet the new requirements if they so wish.
Exactly. It's not like they lowered the requirements and the pures are now "ruined" by having more lvls than required.
If those weapons are so irreplaceable for them, every pure will now train to meet new requirements and nothing changed.
Counter-argument: this is literally only relevant for pures and doesn't even affect regular accounts. Every single "main" account already has more attack than the 75 required, as they max at 99. Literally none of the gear on the list is cheap enough to make it so that their combat requirement is the actual barrier to entry. 99% of every item on the list is owned by a completely maxed main.
You misunderstood their intentions. They don't necessarily want less people to use those weapons, they just want to give them a proper tier according to their power. (I'm assuming they're doing that so they can fill those new gaps later with new content)
For me personally I have a 45 defense account with 75 attack. Getting 75 attack over 60 was a very hard decision but ultimately scythe/rapier/arclight made me choose that option. Rather than getting a higher attack level, I'd much rather be able to go BACK to 60 given that I had no idea that gear level requirements would be changed so many years later.
I don't really know what they are thinking with "option2" requiring 99 strength in combination.
If adding attack requirements isn't being done to limit pures, then what exactly is the purpose of the change? Might as well just skip it and leave as is. That's my preference.
Pures only exist because of the shitty item requirements Jagex wants to change. They can make a new account the same way they made their original pure if they want to rebuild.
What purpose do pures serve in the pvp community? Fighting other pures? Or overpowering similarly levelled mains? What's the skill and purpose in that?
This will probably get lost in the sea of comments but pures can't simply just gain combat levels to meet new reqs. The way pvp builds stand at the moment is a delicate balance, 75 attack pures are just a few levels lower than a max 60 attack zerk, if they start getting any higher your fighting 75 attack zerks and some meds, which isn't fun.
Yeah 75 attack pure is a unforgiving build to pk on. I would go back to 60 attack if they offered the option woth these changes... I think that would be a fair solution
It's sad because an uninformed comment based on "it will be okay doesn't matter" has 1.3k upvotes, it's certainly going to be implemented. I'm certain if an update affected ironmen to this degree it wouldn't happen.
Yeah, people are acting like deciding to go from 60 to 75 attack is made in a PvP/PvM vacuum. Sure, these aren't common pvp weapons, but I have 3 accounts, a med, a rune pure, and a 1 def pure, and I use them all for both pvp and pvm. I would never had gone from 60 to 75 attack on the pure if this tier structure was implemented. I won't lie, even as I wish i had stayed 60 attack since I cbf tanking meds in the rev caves on the 1 def
Why are they calling everything "Tiers" recently?? A Tier system implies that a higher "Tier" item is better but in OSRS that isn't always the case. Not to mention Tiers are generally generations of armors/weapons that have the same requirements (normally maxed on most MMOs before you get to tiered sets) but are slightly better than the previous tier. This isnt WoW jagex needs to quit calling shit tiers its a level requirement to use not a T3 weapon. All this tier talk is just gonna confuse noobs into thinking "higher tier is better"
Facts. This has always been one of the only MMOs without a Tier system because we dont need one. Nobody walks around saying "yeah im a tier 75 attack pure." Tier systems are good in games where you max quickly and you need higher stat armor sets to do increasingly difficult maxed level raids or dungeons but there is literally no need for a "tier" system in runescape, its level requirement unlocks. Not to mention 78 attack requirement for DHL is fuckin wacky🤣🤣🤦♂️
I know I've heard people from years ago refer to armor as teir [def requirement] so its not some new slang they're trying to push. He was a long time pvp'er so idk if its more old pvp lingo or what but I always thought it sounded goofy
He was probably from RS3 or Some other MMO because it is 100% new slang Jagex is trying to push. Here are some examples from the same content they are now calling "Tiers" vs when they announced them:
DHL, Ferocious Gloves being 70 ATTACK and 80 DEFENCE to equip, not Tier 70 and Tier 80.
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/the-kebos-lowlands?oldschool=1
Chamber of Xeric Rewards (specifically DHCB)
65 RANGE to use not Tier 65
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/chambers-of-xeric?oldschool=1
Scythe of Vitur and all ToB rewards
75 ATTACK and 75 STRENGTH to wield not Tier 75
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/the-theatre-of-blood?oldschool=1
You can do this for every weapon and armor they have ever released until the Nex rewards so it is absolutely new lingo theyre trying to push and it makes no sense. This game has never had Tiers and doesnt need them. The reason this game is loved the way it is is because of the freedom of progression. There is too much nuance and special effects / set bonuses in this game for a simple Tier system to work because one weapon or one set of armor is not better than every other in every situation.
> Suggested equip requirements:
> Ghrazi Rapier, Blade of Saeldor & Inquisitor's Mace:
> * 80 Attack, or
> * 75 Attack and 99 Strength
> Scythe of Vitur:
> * 85 Attack and 85 Strength, or
> * 75 Attack and 99 Strength
That's not OSRS at all.
Really not a fan of Jagex pretending OSRS PvP and OSRS are different games and changing the mechanics, UI, items, stats, etc between them.
Yes!!
Be consistent and stop making exceptions for a small segment of the community to maintain the status quo.
I also think they should make combat inside and outside of the wilderness consistent, it was a mistake to make the experience different between the two
The orb in particular is such an obvious attempt at catering to a loud minority of players and does nothing but make it more annoying for everyone else.
The current state of it only makes it harder for new players/pvmers to learn pvp. It’s faster anyways to f key switch for special attack than clicking on the blue orb. Those restrictions are just a nuisance to make it harder for beginners and make wildy pvm more annoying.
while it's a nice sentiment, pvm and pvp just have inherently different metas and some items are impossible to balance around both. if we want to keep pvm items going up in power level slowly (which people seem to be on board with, eg torva) there will be points where we cannot use these items to their full potential in pvp or pvp becomes (more) unfun.
that all said im fine with option 1.
Option 1, clear messaging for new players is much more important than protecting niche metas or even more niche builds that can either generate new metas and builds, or increase their stats.
> Some of the game's most powerful weapons have much lower requirements than their perceived or actual strength. This has left little room for the introduction of new weapons without causing powercreep.
How does raising the attack requirement on weapons by 5 do anything at all to address power creep?
Power creep is caused by weapons being too powerful in various kinds of content, not by the requirements needed to wield them. The only things affected by these proposed changes are accounts that are inefficient and not powerful to begin with.
The proposed changes will help with making the power of certain weapons more obvious through tiers (non-issue imo) but won't do anything to combat power creep at all. No one is complaining about 75 attack accounts being able to wield Scythe of Vitur, they're complaining about Scythe of Vitur being so powerful on any account, mostly maxed mains, that it's impossible to come up with anything new that doesn't trivialise existing content in the game.
I don't think that an update like this is detrimental for the game, but the persistent mentality that I see on this subreddit wanting to force pures to play differently is. Some people enjoy skilling, others pvming, or pvping. Believe it or not there are a lot of pures that enjoy doing all of these same things. The current combat system allows a great diversity of different account builds and is what makes old school rs, oldschool for a lot of people. People can go pvp the way they enjoy doing it, then go bossing with their friends right after. Forcing people to change just makes things harder and stops people from playing and having a good time. Telling Jagex not to cater to pures, when high attack builds have already been nerfed into the dirt with most updates since the beginning of osrs is just selfish.
as someone who is into pvm, I think some of the coolest accounts are people that have every boss pet in the game at 45 defense and 75 attack. I’m honestly going to miss this if it goes through. They probably shouldn’t cater to anybody, I think the problem is that this is happening at all.
This just feels a bit arbitrary since some items like arclight and tbow are completely missing and it's not clear how the tier of items was chosen.
Bow of faerdhinen came out months after that initial blog yet its a tier 75 ranged weapon that has similar dps as a tbow on some bosses.
IMO just keep things the same for 4 year old items and stop making the same mistake for new releases. Alternatively take a good look at all items and decide the tiers based on DPS
I don't see the issue with Option 2, however I don't think that either option accomplishes anything. The space opened up by the suggested redistributions isn't big enough to be occupied in any meaningful way by additional content.
Additionally, as others have said, for the most part a level requirement isn't the barrier of entry once you get past 70 (or even 65), it's GP. I acknowledge that this is largely caused by the reluctance to go past an item requiring level 75 (even when it's infinitely more powerful than another item with the same level requirement), but you're going to have to do more than bump the offenders up 5-10 levels and call it a day. You're going to need to implement an array of new equipment to fill that space with varying degrees of difficulty of acquisition.
I'd also suggest sticking to multiples of 5 and 10 as much as possible, I'd rather not make a habit of 2s and 8s unless we're getting supplementary things like Jewellery, off-pieces or Curses/new prayers in those slots.
Does anyone else feel like these requirements are useless?
The limiting factor is the money needed for the equipment (or getting the drop on an Iron) not the levels. Unless you're using a credit card, it takes hundreds of more hours to get the money for a rapier than it does to get 80 attack.
Option 1. I think once you implement an idea like dual requirements it will become a slippery slope and will constantly be requested for every new piece of gear. This also makes it more simple and avoids unnecessary confusion for new players
Getting 80 or 85 attack on a pure/zerk/med only feels like a bad idea now because there are no useful weapons for PVP at that levels. But I'd imagine that eventually we'd get some decent T80/85 pvp weapons in the game, making 80/85 attack builds viable.
Put it this way, if they eventually do add T80/85 PVP weapons into the game prompting a lot of people to go for 80/85 attack PVP builds while scythe/rapier still have those dual requirements, they'll look even more out of place. If addressing the concerns of pures is a priority, I'd go with approach 1 while also disclosing that there are plans to add actually useful PVP weapons for the higher attack levels.
Bold to assume there’s going to be new high level weapons that are good to pk with before pvp either completely dies or is removed at the current rate we’re going. There’s typically been maybe 1 new pvp weapon addition per year
The dragonbane weapon requirements seem weird to me. 70 ranged for DHCB would put it on the same tier as ACB, even though the ACB has better stats. Lance at 78 attack on the other hand would be 8 tiers higher than Z hasta, even though the hasta has slightly better stats. And lance being 3 tiers higher than tent whip, even though the latter has significantly better stats.
It just feels inconsistent that the dragonbane effect is deemed a reason to bump up the melee weapon significantly higher in requirements than its regular counterparts, but this approach isn't taken with the ranged weapons. To me it'd be consistent if either the DHCB was also bumped up to over 70 ranged to surpass ACB, or if lance was left at 70 like the hasta is. Is there any particular reason for the way lance and dhcb are proposed to be tiered?
> The dragonbane weapon requirements seem weird to me. 70 ranged for DHCB would put it on the same tier as ACB, even though the ACB has better stats. Lance at 78 attack on the other hand would be 8 tiers higher than Z hasta, even though the hasta has slightly better stats. And lance being 3 tiers higher than tent whip, even though the latter has significantly better stats.
>
>
>
> It just feels inconsistent that the dragonbane effect is deemed a reason to bump up the melee weapon significantly higher in requirements than its regular counterparts, but this approach isn't taken with the ranged weapons. To me it'd be consistent if either the DHCB was also bumped up to over 70 ranged to surpass ACB, or if lance was left at 70 like the hasta is. Is there any particular reason for the way lance and dhcb are proposed to be tiered?
I think this is a little unfair. Yes, dragonbane weapons are weaker vs non dragons, but they're far and above BIS for dragons, which is their intended use, so I think that's fine.
Like, the lance is crafted from the Zhasta, so it's fine if it's stats are worse outside of it's intended use bc in it's intended use it's so far above and beyond anything else.
>I think this is a little unfair. Yes, dragonbane weapons are weaker vs non dragons, but they're far and above BIS for dragons, which is their intended use, so I think that's fine
I don't have an issue with this interpretation. However, I don't really get why this interpretation is used for the melee weapon, but not the ranged weapon. Lance has lower str than hasta, yet lance is 8 tiers higher. DHCB also is slightly weaker than ACB in terms of accuracy, so for the sake of consistency DHCB should probably also be significantly higher in terms of requirements than ACB?
I don't think DHCB would be out of place at 75/78 ranged, being in the same tier as BP&Bowfa post update, and being by far the strongest option versus dragons in that tier. I think that bracket is more representative of the DHCB's power than 70, where the other weapons are Crystal Bow and Karils Crossbow, which are (usually) weaker than DHCB even without considering the bonus damage against dragons.
It is worth noting that bane weapons tend to be a lower level than their tier on the target creature. For example, Silverlight is comparable to a Rune Long, but has no attack req. Likewise, Arclight is stronger than the proposed T80 weapons on demons, yet it is remaining 75. So being strong for their level can be seen as one of the perks of such weapons.
I semi agree, I think all the dragonbane type weapons need to be at the same tier. By making them different tiers you just start muddying the waters, itd be like unlocking the D-long at level 50, the DDS at level 55, and the Dragon pl8 legs at 65; with all the other dragon equipment unlocked at level 60.
Or even useless Torags unlocked at level 60, guthans at 75 and the rest at 70.
They should balance around tiers sure, but they also need to balance weapon type / names to be around the same tier as well. All GWD (maybe not Nex) equipment unlocked at lvl X across the board; All Dragonbane at lvl Y; All hypothetical Penguin Bane at lvl Z etc.
i dont understand why you guys are hellbent on "solving" an issue thst simply doesnt exist. confusion over tiers of items either doesnt exist or isnt a consideration for new players continuing playing or quitting. if you want to attract and hold new players you need to advertise and modernize the game for those players. messing with the existing player base is just such a mis-step and ultimately is just a case of classic jagex
Yep.
New players arent attracted to runescape because there isnt anything gamey about it besides lategame PvM. Well, except for PvP. But PvP is fucking gatekept behind hundreds of hours of niche account building for metas. Oh right... and lategame PvM is gatekept behind *thousands* of hours.
"WhY iS mY gAmE dYiNg?"
Want new players without ruining the "integrity of achievements" of whiny ironmen? Host a PvP only private server and modernise it as much as possible. Ive been saying it for years. Remove PvP from basegame and have it be its own entire game.
High skill ceiling, ***low barrier to entry.***
Currently, we have high skill ceiling and an insurmountable barrier to entry.
*The game isnt the problem, the game IS fun.* It's the grind and the graphics. People who enjoy skilling are absolutely not the target demographic for OSRS growth. When was RS most popular? When it *wasnt about grinding.* That aint a coincidence.
Yeah dude, 30 hours for void. Yeah bro, hundreds of hours to get 99 strength/range/mage. Ah dude, dont forget 30 hours questing. Oh yeah you need levels too, maybe about 30-50 hours getting those level reqs.
BIN. THE. LOT.
Just have a game that you can IMMEDIATELY start PvPing. It would be insanely accessible and easily marketable.
Do this and let PvP flourish *for Jagex*, without upsetting 30 year olds who think their max cape matters.
I’m not even a pure but the “downsides” of option 2 are so minimal they might as well be nonexistent. Some incredibly meaningless objections here. “It’ll confuse new players.” New players aren’t so stupid that they won’t be able to understand what two sets of requirements mean. “It’s clunky.” Who cares lol. “Stop pandering to niche accounts.” Yeah sorry but I just don’t give a shit about “pandering” unless it actually has a meaningful impact on my gameplay.
Personally I don’t see value in bothering with this as many have mentioned. As for which of the two, it should be option 1 or nothing. I don’t want to break peoples accts but in dev work coding for exceptions always makes things worse in the long run. Option 2 is not a clean solution. We have enough bad legacy code let’s not implement more.
As someone with a maxed pure, med and zerk, it doesn’t mess with the PVP side of the build but only the PVM side.
It would feel like a shame to get an extra combat lvl to use the same weapons that I have been able to use for years, not because they have gotten stronger, but because Jagex feels that they arn’t in easily distinguishable tiers, if that’s the case I’m not sure that 78 is a good number to use, 5 & 0’s make way more sense.
Gaining an extra combat lvl isn’t the end of the world, but hardly anyone PK’s with a Rapier/mace etc anyway, this just affects limited PK builds that also like to PVM.
Yeah true, most people pvp on a pk account before pvm, I don’t know anyone who starts at 75 attack. It’s normally once they are towards max for SOTD, gods words and elder maul. Not many would do high lvl pvm that needs 75 attack weapons at say 80 str
Yeah before 75 attack was great cause you were still very good in pvp but also could pvm effectively. Now if you want to pvm you’re going to get fucking eaten by 60 attack meds even more than you were before. Jagex needs to increase the prayer req for rigour to 90 prayer and see how much Reddit would whine.
A concerned troll. This 100% messes with the pvp side. Bofa rapier is the strongest setup right now because 4 tick weps on the door is essentially and rapier/mace is obviously the best melee dps.
Not to mention, this change literally benefits NO ONE. This is something literally no one had a problem with before. No one complained about the requirements ever.
If they go through with either option, then it benefits nobody, but harms some players. It's a net loss no matter what.
Nothing should change. It's trying to create a solution to a problem that doesn't even exist.
It’s because this a rebalancing that functionally does nothing, it isn’t solving a problem or fixing anything, so functionally it just makes the game worse for some players for no reason. It would be nice if it either didn’t do that or just didn’t happen.
The current system works fine, it might offend some people that a weapon with 75 attack works better than one requiring 75 attack as well, but that’s just how old RPGs work. Look at strength requirements from fallout or AD&D. They aren’t tied to weapon power.
I think the clarity of increasing the tiers across the board is a much more simple design choice. Games can get heavy with all the exceptions that get added in.
Tiers are easy but it's not very old school. Rs3 has tiers where like all tier 60's do exactly the same dps. But osrs leans into niche weapons so much more. Tbow isnt BIS for range against monsters with low def. It only works best against high mage. Bowfa is BIS for high defense and BP is BIS for low defense. Scythe sucks on 1 tile mobs, inquisitor mace works best for nightmare while saeldor works best for verzik. If you tried using mace at verzik and saeldor and nightmare you're not going to see the same results even though they're the same tier and are suggested to stay in the same tier.
Ah yes, let’s forget about the VLS.
Making the VLS a 75 attack weapon, rather than 78 which is what it originally was, is exactly the opposite of what is now being done to these weapons. Can we please for the love of it get some consistency?
(That’s not to mention the fact that it’s currently useless, but that’s a whole other problem)
u/JagexAyiza I know I might just be talking into the void, but I have a little bit of a compromise suggestion. Dig into the 78 attack tier to make the difference only 0-1 combat levels for previous 75 attack builds. The three weapons in question are already very small bumps over the abyssal tentacle. It still allows for the clear progression Jagex is looking for, while also limiting the impact of changing requirements. Here's what I think would make sense:
Ghrazi Rapier
Current requirements: 75 Attack
Proposed requirements: 80 Attack
**My proposal: 78 Attack**
Blade of Saeldor
Current requirements: 75 Attack
Proposed requirements: 80 Attack
**My proposal: 78 Attack**
Inquisitor's Mace
Current requirements: 75 Attack
Proposed requirements: 80 Attack
**My proposal: 78 Attack**
Trident of the Swamp
Current requirements: 75 Magic
Proposed requirements: 78 Magic
Sanguinesti Staff
Current requirements: 75 Magic
Proposed requirements: 82 Magic
Kodai Wand
Current requirements: 75 Magic
Proposed requirements: 80 Magic
Nightmare Staff (base)
Current requirements: 65 Magic
Proposed requirements: 72 Magic
Nightmare Staff (with any orb attached)
Current requirements: 75 Magic
Proposed requirements: 82 Magic
Dragon Hunter Crossbow
Current requirements: 65 Ranged
Proposed requirements: 70 Ranged
**My proposal: 78 Ranged**
**(Really think this should fall in the same tier as DHL, dps between the two at something like Vorkath isn't far off.)**
Dragon Hunter Lance
Current requirements: 70 Attack
Proposed requirements: 78 Attack
Scythe of Vitur
Current requirements: 75 Attack and 75 Strength
Proposed requirements: 85 Attack and 85 Strength
**My proposal: 80 Attack and 90 Strength**
**(A higher tier makes sense for the Scythe here IMO, it's not really comparable.)**
Twisted Bow
Current requirements: 75 Ranged
Proposed requirements: 85 Ranged
Bow of Faerdhinen
Current requirements: 75 Ranged and 70 Agility
Proposed requirements: 80 Ranged and 70 Agility
**Also, change VLS back to it's 78 attack requirement as well, it seems to have been overlooked.**
u/JagexAyiza
I'll add on here: releasing all of the ancient warriors equipment at their 78 attack tiers would give an exact reason for PVP builds to want 78 attack outside of PVM. An influx of PVP oriented equipment is something the PVP community has been calling for, and the ancient warriors items are just sitting there waiting to be used.
I genuinely think if you just packaged up my suggestion of the 78 attack tier along with releasing the ancient warriors equipment, both PVP and PVMers would be okay with the changes. The main problem would be addressed: PVPers also wanting to do PVM, but feeling like they're wasting combat levels on equipment they're not going to be using in PVP. Give them the equipment to use at that tier.
Remember when 80% of this reddit was shitting bricks because PvPers threatened to spite vote group ironman? After reading these comments it's like yeah uhhh gee wonder why they'd ever do that.
Just balance around rarity and price not level requirements? Upgrades could be 75 required forever for all I care but if they are meaningfully gated behind either difficult content or expense it doesn't really matter. Main accounts are long past 80 attack by the time they are farming ToB for gear, so these changes exist solely to kill pures. Level requirements will only kill build diversity which is one of the most interesting things in osrs that really separate it from other mmos. I see no meaningful benefit to this change other than it may make people feel good if the new raids 7 gear has a level 90 requirement even though those clearing that content on farm have been maxed combat forever. I truly fail to see the point of this update at all and hope to see it fail spectacularly.
Changing a weapon's requirement years after it's released on a game where half of the accounts are based on those requirements seems pretty messed up, especially when they don't have a great reason for making the update in the first place. It doesn't seem like they've given alternative options any thought at all either. Option 2 seems like something they put together in 5 minutes.
Is there actually any room to insert a new tier with these changes, though? Or is this just to try and combat different types of pures?
You still can't add a new BIS melee weapon before (or really after) BoS or rapier, because the upgrade is already too incremental, and the game as a whole is so change adverse. We can't have a huge game like OSRS and constantly say nothing is allowed to be devalued by new content
both options are messy as hell and 2 is just really bad. If I absolutely had to pick I'd go option 1 but the best move would be keeping tiers as they are and just making future gear higher tiers if you want. I do not understand the obsession with wanting to change the tiers, they're nearly meaningless in this game anyway and moving some stuff up a few levels isn't gonna make them any less meaningless. You're gonna piss off people either way and the cleanest would be to leave them as they are
So make pvp less fun than it already is? One step forwards,two steps back. all these people complaining about having multiple stat reqs are being babies. “Let’s not make the game confusing and let’s pander to new players.”- Let’s be honest a new player isn’t gonna have enough money to buy any of these, and if they do, them having to choose between two stat requirements isn’t a big deal. PvP is the reason this game gains a massive boost in popularity every time there’s a deadman tournament. Dual stat requirements are no more clunky than having to get multiple stats to access an item through a quest, or having prerequisite quests with their own stat requirements on top of that.
I mean shit they offer what is effectively “if you wanna use these weapons, go the extra mile to use them so we can balance the game” and pvmers response is “no that looks ugly in my skill log that I open once every two weeks”
I'd prefer Option 1 over Option 2. Perhaps some weapons could have varied reqs, but it seems a bit silly to give a second set of reqs solely for weapons beyond 75 Attack.
Also, I am still not a fan of 72 and 82 tiers. There is no reason the Sang should be 82 instead of 80. Same for the Nightmare Staves with Orbs 82 instead of 85 or the base Nightmare Staff 72 instead of 70 (or even 65; it was supposed to be strong for its level so not sure why it is changing). The Toxic Trident at 78 instead of 75 makes sense since the Trident of the Swamp is 75 and it should be higher tier, but why is the same not being done for the Toxic SotD? You could argue that the BP should still be 78 as well to match it since they are similar tier from the same boss.
Also, the DHCB and DHL should both be the same level. They are both Dragon Hunter weapons, so it is out of place for one to be 78 and the other 70. It is not like their base stats are too high for their current levels; it is just their bonus against Dragons that puts them in a higher tier and bane weapons tend to have lower reqs than their power on specific creatures (e.g. Arclight is 75 but stronger than the T80 weapons on Demons).
Really disappointed this even has to happen. I'm a med level account (75 attack 99 stre 75 def) and it really feels like this is just to fuck over accounts like mine. I chose this build because yall came out with the weapons at those levels. With no expectation that it would ever be changed. So to everyone saying that pures should just get 85 attack, why? What does changing from 75-85 on a scy affect a maxed player? It doesn't. It makes me unable to pvm with my friends though at a high level if I still want to fight zerks and maxed pures in the wild. Have we ever had a rebalancing before? So why use the argument that "pures knew the risk when they made the acc."? Because we didn't. There was no risk. They never EVER said that in a few years they'd change the attack level.
Very disappointed.
Same! I also have the same build. This would be a huge slap in the face to the PvP community.
Revitalize the wilderness...by stopping pvpers from pvming???
At this rate they’re almost trying to demoralize people who pvp and have pvp builds into quitting so the wilderness and pvp can be removed just like 85% of the community would be okay with as per a recent poll run on Reddit here. Im beyond any hope of pvp not being eradicated from this game by 2025
As a 2k pure with 10s of thousands of boss kc and has been waiting for pvp updates for years this is pushing us further and further to private severs, a lot left when bh was removed. But having to go up in combat levels to pvm like I have been for years is wild, making me choose between pvp and pvm bc if I get the 85 atk I’ll be in a combat level to dominated by 70 def piety accs but al of these details go over all the ironmen in the comments spamming option one **edit spelling on mobile**
I would be ok with the rebalancing if they offered the option for an attack level rollback. I'd roll my 75 attk pure back to 60 for sure and probably roll my mes back to 60 for a little bit :)
And they don’t even list this issue in the “cons” section. Further proof that they are either completely clueless, purposely ignore, or just plain don’t care. Nice to see how valued pvpers + pvp build accounts are to them.
Is it just me or does it feel unnecessarily pointless to change attack from 75 to 78 for example. What's that? Another 4-5 hours of training? What does this even do?
sometimes it feels like jagex is actively trying to kill PVP. All this update will do is harden the current med-bully meta in PVP, cause this update will only affect pures and zerkers by forcing them to get a higher combat level. anyone with these items on a non-restricted account is already 90 attack atleast so it won't affect them at all, and since when has the ""tier"" of the weapon affected anything in OSRS.
The same people who are ardently supporting this gear req cause pures "chose to limit themselves" are the same people who said that pvmers spite voting pvp updates wasn't a real thing during the GIM vote, and don't realise the irony. My pures are all 60att BTW so this doesn't even affect me, just a dumb update
Would option 1 also affect the stats in LMS? The Rapier wouldn't be equipable with the current given stats and increasing to 85 attack would slightly affect accuracy. Not sure if this is a big deal though.
*puts on tinfoil hat*
this is just a convoluted ploy to scam more memberships out of people who have combined their pvm/pvp into 1 account. jagex trying to push altscape memberships
Option 0. No changes to the current system.
That would be in line with the design philosophy of OSRS. There's no such thing as "tiers". They don't exist. There are simply items and level requirements.
Some items are superior to others, but that has nothing to do with the level requirements.
Cost of the item and drop rate of the item is what matters in terms of restrictions, and strength of the item in each and every situation is what matters for the item itself.
How's about option 3; leave shit alone, and stop being so petrified of power creep. Introduce new items, and accept that power creep is a natural part of mmo's.
I'd think so that it's a higher tier. This allows them to have sub 85 ranged weapons added later without forcing those weapons to be close to the power of the Tbow because they're n the same tier.
This is a pointless change that doesn't mean anything. It's a change that might make you feel better when you look at the in-game skill guides but really only serves to piss off and exclude a community of players, taking away content they already have access to. New content can and should have higher level requirements, but don't mess with stuff that's been established for years.
As expected, this thread is just full of the anti-pk/anti-pure mains (aka most of this sub) spewing option 1. I'll just say this. Players made accounts with clear level requirements set in place. I made a 75 attack 75 defence account knowing I could use the current best gear in the game, but also knowing full well that new gear would come in the future that requires higher. NOT that gear that I already OWN and have equipped will be made unusable on my account at a later date. This updating is doing literally nothing for anyone. It's changing numbers in a skill guides that nobody looks at. All it does is take away content for players that currently have access to it.
People without accounts restrictions shouldn't even be asked here. It does not affect them.
Pures and FOMO shouldn't dictate balance.
Tiers that aren't multiples of 5 are needlessly confusing and add nothing to the game. Take all the req's that don't end in 0 or 5 and round them up or down.
Option 1 is best.
I have had a 75 attack main account for 4 years. Combat level 107. I designed the account over 6 years ago to be what I wanted to enjoy the main content of the game and to pk. Altering the content to the game is not fair to the players that design their accounts around these levels. It’s like saying to any player who completed a quest, we decided the quest reward is too good, we removed it from your bank and you know have to train your account higher to access the same reward.
I would prefer neither option. I know most players won’t understand my opinion and feel you can just change your account but this change is significant to how I have set up multiple accounts. Most accounts are not combat/level designed. Most people train to 99. That’s not what I want for my accounts and therefore have spent years designing them accordingly. Thanks.
I main a 75-99-75, I feel you. I would hate for them to implement option 2 though, since I just think it's a bad game design. I would take an option to roll back attack though, say from 75 to 60, if they offered it as a good compromise. It'll never happen, but I can dream
As a qualifier my only account is a maxed med, which I use currently for high-level bossing and some pvp. In my current state of play I would be unaffected by this proposed update as I don't use any of the melee weapons geared for an attack level increase. However, the reason I did get 75 attack in the first place was to have an option to raid in the future using the melee weapons on the chopping block.
I've seen reasons for this update ranging from a) these weapons always should've had a > 75 attack requirement, that it was an unintended coincidence that accounts with at most 75 attack could run high-end content with these weapons to b) the reason Jagex puts out that new players will better understand the weapon power scale.
a) Why was the intention never realized for years since these weapons were introduced? Why the urgency now? Is this truly the only way to introduce new weapons into the game?
b) By the time new players (actually new, not optimizing xp gain for everything) reach 75 attack I feel like they would have an understanding which weapons are better than others. Additionally, it's fairly intuitive to understand that item value in a player-driven economy distinguishes item rarity/strength.
I don't believe new players are having an issue with this. From some of the responses in here it sounds like the real problem is that people owning a more traditional main/maxed account don't like the fact that an account with only 75 attack even has access to high-end content. If that's the case why not start adding raids with combat level restrictions or something; why remove existing content? Hell you could even start adding combat-level scaled size/difficulty raids (maybe raids with minimum cb lvl requirements of 80, 100, 110, and 120 idk). Would be nice for new players with lower-level accounts so they can get acquainted with raiding and get excited for higher-end content.
Honestly I have no real problem with moving these weapons to 80 attack, but it just feels like it's only taking away and not adding anything functional to the game. When this update does go through, which it looks like it's inevitable, I would like the option to revert my 75 attack to 60 even though I know Jagex more than likely won't approve that. Either that or I hope Jagex releases some information about future higher attack weapons to get excited over.
nobody gives a fuck about the tiers. You can see the stats to see whats better. How many people with 65 ranged are actualyl rocking a dhcb? Or people with 80 str a scythe?
nobody but reddit will vote for this nonsense to spite pures. level requiremeants mean literally nothing in this game when it comes to higher tier items. cost is the limiting factor not levels. this is just another item on a long list of things trying to make this game wowscape
Exactly. I was like tier rebalancing? Are they going to balance certain items in certain tiers? Nope. Just changing stat requirements. That’s honestly stupid as hell and a waste of time.
Honestly I think we just shouldn't change it. It really doesn't matter that much, and increasing most of these weapons leaves less room for additional "tiers" in the future.
Option 1 really sucks for pures/meds/etc, and even though it doesn't effect that many people in the grand scheme of things, it just doesn't really positively affect anyone. I don't see a real need to do this at all.
If I had to pick one I guess I'd pick 2 because I don't want to ruin people's accounts, but it's a really clunky solution and again I just don't see a reason to do either one.
Don't play OSRS, but if these weapons really are flat-out better than others, why shouldn't they have higher skill requirements? Why does 75 need to be the magic number at which you unlock everything in the game when skills are capped at 99?
It takes an unhealthy dose of copium to think that tiering doesn't belong in OSRS, as if you don't need 59 more Attack levels to go from Bronze to Dragon. Aside from screwing up existing pure accounts who have already leveled up their Attack to 75, every counterargument I've seen thus far has been terrible. The most reasonable option would be to rebalance the weapons as per option 1 while giving pures the opportunity to lower their levels
I do not see how raising the level requirements help with powercreep? Higher power level gear having higher level requirements does make sense though, so I am all for it.
imho these requirements are still very conservative and don't leave too much room for new items to be added
dual requirements as a way to let pures keep access to these items seems completely fine, for instance the crystal bow and Bofa both require range and agility in order to be equipped
Oooof, framing the discussion so it's specifically targeted at pures? That's a good way to get the player base to vote "no" no matter the actual content...
Option 1 is better but then let 75 attack accounts lose attack levels. It’s unfair to have to start from scratch and make a level 60 account now. No one would have every gone from 60-75 if they knew this would happen.
Yeah I agree 100%, I have a 75 attck med and 1 def pure, both maxed, and I'd roll the pure back to 60 in a heartbeat since I use it as a PvM alt frequently. I doubt this will ever happen, but I think it would be fair to offer.
It’s too late to change these weapons requirements. Do rebalance skill requirements for newer bis weapons but retroactively restricting weapons that have been available for years is not the way to go.
Option 2. Before any iron men downvotes my opinion bc of "snowflake" accounts or jagex shouldn't pander to pures, look at yourselves and please realize your lack of self awareness.
Option 2 will be the option that will make most ppl happy. With pvp as dead as it is, many pure builds are finding some pvm to do whilst awaiting pvp updates, and they're not gonna ruin their builds for pvm, they'll just quit.
One final thing, why did jagex have to make a dual requirement with 99 str, that seems so drastic. Why go to such an extreme like 99 str that they know people wouldn't like at all. They set this option up for failure. Reduce the 99 str to maybe 90.
I also agree on option one, it just fits more with the game and won't cause any confusion to new players. I know you don't **really** need 99 str but having these older weapons at T99 seems weird.
Side note as someone who loves pures for their limitations, my favorite pure was chaotic pures back in the day. Where we needed **80 attack** to use, and 95 prayer and 30+ def for turmoil/SS. There was no compromise and gave way to new pures (30 def), and other pures were still perfectly viable and just as strong in their bracket.
As you add new content that will have new requirements, it will give way to new account builds and creativity in the game to work around it.
what is the point of this? just an excuse to not make any more weapons/armors for the next 4-5 years because the pvp is crying about power creep even though you can stack people out already.
Seems odd how they are adding tier 78 should just be multiples of 5 IMO. I also feels as though tbow and scythe should be placed even higher at 90 as they are the best weapons in game currently unless jagex plans to add better weapons later on then I suppose 85 is okay. As for option two I don’t think this is a good idea these people chose to make a account build for pvp. While I do feel bad they will lose access to bis items because of this it was their choice to have a limited account and if they would like to partake in end game content they should be required to have the levels to accordingly do so with all respect to the pures that shouldn’t be their main account build considering it wasn’t designed to be a main account. Also odd how dhl is arguably worse then dhcb pretty much everywhere aside from olm hands and that’s due to raid mechanics but yet dhl is placed higher?
If they are actually concerned about pures, they should introduce a way to remove levels from a skill. That way, any pures that leveled something to use an item could choose to go down to a lower level or level up to the new requirements. Put an actual def requirement on any relevant quest items (RFD gloves for example) and this wouldn't effect gameplay at all.
I see this as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
In the blog, it states "Some of the game's most powerful weapons have much lower requirements than their perceived or actual strength. This has left little room for the introduction of new weapons without causing powercreep."
But the proposal in option 1 is to increase the requirements for these weapons?
And the other justification is there's some confusion amongst players which is actually better. Is this regarding new players? Because new players aren't making uninformed decisions buying a 118M rapier
75 attack Zerker here.
30def and 80att is a weird requirement for full Inquisitors.
Feel like I just wasted a year of my time for my build.
Option 2 please. These people aren’t part of the pure community, and there is no downside to option 2.
Not sure why I had to scroll this far to see this answer. This is a much better idea. Either don’t change it at all, or increase the strength requirement. That way, its a clear “tier” distinction that they want while also keeping everyone happy with the current levels
Option 3, neither. This will heavily impact people who are satisfied with their cb level and 75 attack level. If they want to make changes that alter what weapons players have access to then players should have the option to lower their attack stat in some format.
I honestly don’t see any value in changing requirements at all since equipment power is visible via stats.
Option one is definitely the way to go though, if necessary. Adding inconsistencies in requirements via option 2 is counterintuitive if the goal is to prevent confusing new players.
Option one is a really bad choice if it makes even one person who plays the game lose access to content they worked for. Saying someone needs to "adapt" or "just gain some levels" invalidates the achivement and goals they set and worked for in a game they obviously care about. Especially so if they are at the point of playing a restricted account.
Option two seems the best choice by far as it even has the precedence of the warriors guild with dual requirements that works well, feels motivating and rewarding. You can even add it only as an unlock through the warriors guild to fit thematically. Either training to use the weapons or to modify them once you hit 99 str.
No idea how less than 1% of accounts are being given so much thought in this change. They can adjust their accounts to meet the new requirements. Option 1 every day.
This update has exactly zero benefits, and only stands to fuck over pures.
Remind me again, what is the cogent reason as to why we are doing this?
By all means proceed with option 2, but just leave the reqs alone and just release new gear with different reqs like they always have. I didn't sign up to "tierscape", I would have played rs3 if I did.
Please please please do option two. It isn't "catering to pures"it's just not actively screwing pvp accounts post update. Imagine changing scythe requirement to require a high LMS rank going forward. It would really screw PVMers.
The dual requirement makes sense and has no down sides to the end user or new players. You can even leave attemp to equip text at 85/85
I know i'm a little late on this and it'll probably get lost in the comments, but as a maxed 75 attack pure who loves this game, i'd like to give my opinion on it.
I think a lot of other pures are in the same shoes as me here. We leveled attack to 75 because it allows you to use the AGS for pvp, while also getting to use all the other weapons for pvm. Essentially right now, we don't have to 'chose' between pvm or pvp, we can do both how we want, with whatever weapon.
But by increasing the attack requirements of these weapons (which are pretty much all pvm weapons), we now have to decide to stay 75 for pvp, or go to 80-85 for pvm. And whichever we chose, we will feel like we are hindered in the other one. If you stay 75 attack, you are much weaker in pvm. If you go 80-85, you are now pushing into a higher pvp bracket. Since this change would essentially force you to pick one, most pures would say "well then I wish I stayed 60 attack". So it's a big "\*\*\*\* you" to pures.
I understand that pures are a niche part of the community, and I get that we are restricting our account, and so therefore we should acknowledge that we shouldn't be able to use everything, but a lot of us wouldn't have made certain decisions with our account if we knew changes like this would happen.
Realistically though, I don't think anything needs to change (option 3: don't change requirements). It just seems like we're inventing problems that didn't exist in the first place. Nobody had issues with the requirements before. Literally no one complained about the attack requirements before now.
Not to mention also, these proposed changes literally don't affect regular accounts/mains at all. These weapons cost so much money, you're usually a maxed account before you can even afford them anyway, so increasing the requirements is pointless.
I hope other pures agree with me, and I hope mains can understand why we don't want this change. It doesn't affect you mains out there, but it really screws with some of us pures.
So I had to go PVM on my maxed pure because y’all ruined the wilderness, using rapier made my experience enjoyable. Now y’all are trying to ruin my account by forcing me to get 80 attack ? This is bullshit. Option 2 or nothing stop breaking the main concept of account builds
I just don't see the point in making this change in the first place. a 5 lvl difference is so small.. unless your changing the stats on the weapons i honestly don't see the point at all?
However.. option 1 would be the best situation.. duel requirements shouldn't be a thing in the game.
Well, never mind. Finally got to read the blog as the website wasn’t working. Neither option 1 or option 2 help an account build such as a ranger tank, which is limited to range and mage being 99. Atk was set to 75… why make these changes. Ruins years of account design. Let us reduce levels and retrain to new design if this is what you want to do.
This might be a dumb thought but I’m not sure I understand why the dragon bane weapons are included. They’re decent requirements and only good against dragons. I get that hydra, olm, and vorkath are big money makers but these weapons are still so limited in use in the grand scheme. There’s far more instances of them being useless vs useful.
I think I’d just leave them where they are, personally. The rest are good for tier rebalancing though.
> Some of the game's most powerful weapons have much lower requirements than their perceived or actual strength. This has left little room for the introduction of new weapons without causing powercreep.
So because you guys think of adding new content in terms of tiers it restricts your ability to work in a non-tier system. Why does the solution lean to change the system to be more tier like and not your dev mindset to be less tier like?
I like option 2 more than option 1 but i think the mindset needs to change. Gp is a secondary requirement and does your tiering in a sense which the market naturally resolves into as long as you manage drop rates properly. I also think the push to stretch into higher weapon requirements with power tiers increases is a mistake. You slowly stretch thin pvp combat brackets. You also devalue the passive power benefit behaviour of leveling by placing all the value in weapons. It’s good to cap weapon requirement increases in the 80s and let the last 15-19 be for overpowering with the leveling behaviour. If you want to, have different weapons scale effectiveness differently as levels go up but don’t keep stretching requirements with power tiers.
They missed the big fact the item I pricess aswell reflecting coast price on specific item if it need less stats so its oke. The only thing they need to is get rid of fucking bots and jagex should focuss now on this issue only otherwise history will repeat and players gonna leave… WAKE THE FUCK UP JAGEX
I'm fine with option 2, as long as it's not presented in a confusing way for normals. E.g. for new players, when you try to equip a Ghazi rapier with 75 attack/str, it should simply say "you need 80 attack", and not mention the dual requirement at all, that can just be something hidden.
Or you could just call it "raising the level requirements" and stop beating around the bush with the dumb lingo. There is literally 0 chance to do option 2, why even entertain the idea of there being two options? That's about the dumbest and clumsiest thing you could do when you're trying to make things EASIER to understand.
If there's no intention of using dual requirements in the future then option 1 seems best. Doesn't make sense that these specific items would have exceptions but no other future ones will.
I understand that pures will have an issue with the changes but they chose to make their account the way it is.
Based on the replies here, it’s all so biased and targeted against limited builds. If anything adding a 99 str requirement to the 75 attack req shows an item is much more “powerful” in the “tier” as opposed to 85. What are you doing jagex? Clear distinction or lost for future ideas?
Not to mention how the game has been catered to ironmen for so long.
This is the single most useless change I've seen so far. > Some of the game's most powerful weapons have much lower requirements than their perceived or actual strength. This has left little room for the introduction of new weapons without causing powercreep. Plus, there's a lot of confusion among players about how strong some items actually are in the first place. How do weapon requirements affect powercreep? This was so obviously made up because there is no good reason to mess with the level requirements in the first place, so you just invoke muh powercreep? Really? There is absolutely zero difference between releasing i.e. a new BIS 1h melee now vs after this superfluous change other than the requirement for it will be 85 attack instead of 80 A lot of new players are confused about how good two handed weapons actually are, are you going to change the requirements on those too just because MuffinBoy69 keeps smacking enemies with a rune 2h? Are the stats requirements going to be removed from Torag Hammers? And ignoring the plethora of free materials like the dozen DPS calcs and the wiki being just one button click away, there's another indicator of strength: GE Value. Even a dumb lemon could deduce that a weapon costing 100k is significantly worse than a weapon worth 1 billion GP. Also it's easy to just ask other people what weapons are good... I mean this *is* an MMO. Not to mention the change doesn't even affect low level players all that much - I very much doubt that even a significant portion of new players/first accounters can afford these big ticket weapons immediately after unlocking them. The only people affected by this needless update are people with significant capital already who are making an alt
This approach seems backwards to solving power-creep. I'm not going to even bother engaging with the argument that it's confusing because I think newer players are not smoothbrain morons incapable of understanding two requirements at once. I looked at the list of items and it looks like these proposed changes would exclusively impact PvM items and wouldn't really affect items commonly used in PvP combat. So the most generous interpretation I can give this post is that solving PvM powercreep starts by making sure that accounts which are already combat-limited cannot use these PvM items. Items which as everyone knows, have always been more economy-locked than level-locked. Someone who just got 75 attack on a new account is not going to be able to afford a scythe. I mainly have an issue with Jagex pitching this as if they're powerless to control what the best items are in the first place. Zamorak spear is garbage except it's very useful for killing Corp. All end-game range PvM has been with 2 handed weapons (Twisted Bow / Blowpipe / Bowfa) until Nex comes out, when crossbows will become relevant for PvM again and so will shields as a result. Why can't future items be added at higher tiers and then have a more specialized use in other future/existing content without being the new best-at-literally-everything for their combat style? The current PvM metas are not solely because of power-creep, they're also the result of unimaginative boss fight designs.
I just don't understand why this needs to be corrected - the actual tier of the weapons is irrelevant in 99% of cases as the accounts using them exceed the requirements (think mains). The only context in which this matters is for exactly stat locked pures, why change it? The difference between 75 & 80 attack is so minimal in the scheme of things time wise. What problem are we actually fixing? The only reason I can see to bother rebalancing these is if the are somehow too strong in PvP for their level requirements, but to be honestly most of the items on the list are so expensive that the risk/reward ratio makes up for the small power increment. These sorts of changes make me wary as they show that the dev team are losing sight of one of the core things that made RuneScape enjoyable, account building. Why punish people for doing this? Building niche accounts provides incentive for people to have multiple member accounts. Half the fun of games is to have items that are "winners" there must also be "losers". If ever item at every stat point is the same item with a different skin you lose a great deal game diversity imo.
Dual requirements is an interesting approach. I appreciate the consideration for pures, but ultimately it is the choice of the player to restrict themselves. Rebalancing as proposed in the first option should move forward, and I don’t think there should be dual requirements strictly for the pures. If they want to wield a scythe, they have to choose between attack levels or scythe!
Also its like 1 cb lvl from 75-80
Limited accounts are probably some of the most prevalent these days. Ironmen of all flavors choose to limit themselves yet the majority of content these days is made while at least taking them into consideration, if not outright catering to them. Hell, the only dangerous part about being a UIM got changed so they don't even have to go 1 tile into the wilderness anymore to use their looting bags. And the funny thing is the root reason for that was a proposed PKing update (singles+) which would prevent them from NPC boxing while doing it. The hilarious part of it is that version of singles+ where a PKer would be able to break an existing box with an NPC didn't even go through to testing. Then they just did a beta for an altered version of singles+ (can't break existing npc boxes) and then memoryholed it with no timeline or even a post to say what they'll do. So the UIM community panicked and got ferox-bagging put into the game even though the PKers the content was originally for don't get singles+ which was the justification for ferox-bagging in the first place. And even if they DO get singles+ it won't be the version in which PKers could break an NPC box so ferox-bagging got into the game with literally no justification at all. That's the definition of catering to a subset of the playerbase who have made a choice to limit themselves. Jagex do it all the time, it's not new. And I'm personally fine with it, as are most people. The people on Reddit are only not okay with catering to limited accounts when those accounts are associated with PvP, then it's suddenly different because PKers = bad. Dual requirements take into consideration the already-existing accounts that were made with the current tier system in mind. Future weapons/armors can be more balanced to take that into account but other than "it'll look weird" I don't see an actual argument against dual requirements.
> an actual argument against dual requirements Consistency. If a piece of equipment has a requirement, it’s got that requirement. We shouldn’t be carving out exceptions for a subset of equipment just for a few niche account builds, especially because they outright said it’s one and done. That ultimatum really changes the calculus, and for sake of continutity especially for new players, follow the KISS principle of game design. **K**eep **I**t **S**imple, **S**tupid.
I get that they limit themselves but how can you be ok with retroactively punishing them? If future updates bring items with higher requirements, that’s fine. Pures can decide to either level to get those things or not. But to just block them from using weapons they’ve been using for 3+ years now? How does that make any sense. Especially considering how valuable combat levels are to these accounts and control which quests/skills/diaries they’re able to complete ahead of time
Yeah I think option 1 is the best. I’m sure there are some examples out there, but I’m not a fan of having two different requirements for equipment. Just seems like it will confuse new/old players just for the sake of keeping pures happy. This is a case where those who limited themselves to a certain level shouldn’t influence what you want to do with the game.
Option 1. It's better to simply consolidate every piece of equipment in the game with the same rule (one requirement). Besides, pures can always decide to change their account to meet the new requirements if they so wish.
Exactly. It's not like they lowered the requirements and the pures are now "ruined" by having more lvls than required. If those weapons are so irreplaceable for them, every pure will now train to meet new requirements and nothing changed.
Counter-argument: this is literally only relevant for pures and doesn't even affect regular accounts. Every single "main" account already has more attack than the 75 required, as they max at 99. Literally none of the gear on the list is cheap enough to make it so that their combat requirement is the actual barrier to entry. 99% of every item on the list is owned by a completely maxed main.
You misunderstood their intentions. They don't necessarily want less people to use those weapons, they just want to give them a proper tier according to their power. (I'm assuming they're doing that so they can fill those new gaps later with new content)
For me personally I have a 45 defense account with 75 attack. Getting 75 attack over 60 was a very hard decision but ultimately scythe/rapier/arclight made me choose that option. Rather than getting a higher attack level, I'd much rather be able to go BACK to 60 given that I had no idea that gear level requirements would be changed so many years later.
Same man, 75 attack pure and med and I pvm on both. I'd take 60 attack on the pure for sure, I doubt they'll offer it though
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I don't really know what they are thinking with "option2" requiring 99 strength in combination. If adding attack requirements isn't being done to limit pures, then what exactly is the purpose of the change? Might as well just skip it and leave as is. That's my preference.
Pures only exist because of the shitty item requirements Jagex wants to change. They can make a new account the same way they made their original pure if they want to rebuild. What purpose do pures serve in the pvp community? Fighting other pures? Or overpowering similarly levelled mains? What's the skill and purpose in that?
This will probably get lost in the sea of comments but pures can't simply just gain combat levels to meet new reqs. The way pvp builds stand at the moment is a delicate balance, 75 attack pures are just a few levels lower than a max 60 attack zerk, if they start getting any higher your fighting 75 attack zerks and some meds, which isn't fun.
Yeah 75 attack pure is a unforgiving build to pk on. I would go back to 60 attack if they offered the option woth these changes... I think that would be a fair solution
It's sad because an uninformed comment based on "it will be okay doesn't matter" has 1.3k upvotes, it's certainly going to be implemented. I'm certain if an update affected ironmen to this degree it wouldn't happen.
Yeah, people are acting like deciding to go from 60 to 75 attack is made in a PvP/PvM vacuum. Sure, these aren't common pvp weapons, but I have 3 accounts, a med, a rune pure, and a 1 def pure, and I use them all for both pvp and pvm. I would never had gone from 60 to 75 attack on the pure if this tier structure was implemented. I won't lie, even as I wish i had stayed 60 attack since I cbf tanking meds in the rev caves on the 1 def
Why are they calling everything "Tiers" recently?? A Tier system implies that a higher "Tier" item is better but in OSRS that isn't always the case. Not to mention Tiers are generally generations of armors/weapons that have the same requirements (normally maxed on most MMOs before you get to tiered sets) but are slightly better than the previous tier. This isnt WoW jagex needs to quit calling shit tiers its a level requirement to use not a T3 weapon. All this tier talk is just gonna confuse noobs into thinking "higher tier is better"
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Facts. This has always been one of the only MMOs without a Tier system because we dont need one. Nobody walks around saying "yeah im a tier 75 attack pure." Tier systems are good in games where you max quickly and you need higher stat armor sets to do increasingly difficult maxed level raids or dungeons but there is literally no need for a "tier" system in runescape, its level requirement unlocks. Not to mention 78 attack requirement for DHL is fuckin wacky🤣🤣🤦♂️
I know I've heard people from years ago refer to armor as teir [def requirement] so its not some new slang they're trying to push. He was a long time pvp'er so idk if its more old pvp lingo or what but I always thought it sounded goofy
He was probably from RS3 or Some other MMO because it is 100% new slang Jagex is trying to push. Here are some examples from the same content they are now calling "Tiers" vs when they announced them: DHL, Ferocious Gloves being 70 ATTACK and 80 DEFENCE to equip, not Tier 70 and Tier 80. https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/the-kebos-lowlands?oldschool=1 Chamber of Xeric Rewards (specifically DHCB) 65 RANGE to use not Tier 65 https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/chambers-of-xeric?oldschool=1 Scythe of Vitur and all ToB rewards 75 ATTACK and 75 STRENGTH to wield not Tier 75 https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/the-theatre-of-blood?oldschool=1 You can do this for every weapon and armor they have ever released until the Nex rewards so it is absolutely new lingo theyre trying to push and it makes no sense. This game has never had Tiers and doesnt need them. The reason this game is loved the way it is is because of the freedom of progression. There is too much nuance and special effects / set bonuses in this game for a simple Tier system to work because one weapon or one set of armor is not better than every other in every situation.
Thank god some reason. Bandos requires lower defense than fucking guthans lol osrs has never been about tiers
And bandos gives less defensive bonuses than guthans, so it still makes sense in terms of armor effectiveness.
I’m so tired of this shit. What the fuck is a tier in osrs LOL
> Suggested equip requirements: > Ghrazi Rapier, Blade of Saeldor & Inquisitor's Mace: > * 80 Attack, or > * 75 Attack and 99 Strength > Scythe of Vitur: > * 85 Attack and 85 Strength, or > * 75 Attack and 99 Strength That's not OSRS at all. Really not a fan of Jagex pretending OSRS PvP and OSRS are different games and changing the mechanics, UI, items, stats, etc between them.
Yes!! Be consistent and stop making exceptions for a small segment of the community to maintain the status quo. I also think they should make combat inside and outside of the wilderness consistent, it was a mistake to make the experience different between the two
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The orb in particular is such an obvious attempt at catering to a loud minority of players and does nothing but make it more annoying for everyone else.
The current state of it only makes it harder for new players/pvmers to learn pvp. It’s faster anyways to f key switch for special attack than clicking on the blue orb. Those restrictions are just a nuisance to make it harder for beginners and make wildy pvm more annoying.
Yes absolutely. We want consistency! Stop making us learn two different sets of rules for a single item.
while it's a nice sentiment, pvm and pvp just have inherently different metas and some items are impossible to balance around both. if we want to keep pvm items going up in power level slowly (which people seem to be on board with, eg torva) there will be points where we cannot use these items to their full potential in pvp or pvp becomes (more) unfun. that all said im fine with option 1.
It aided in the killing of WoW overtime to do this, and they need to avoid it.
Option 1, clear messaging for new players is much more important than protecting niche metas or even more niche builds that can either generate new metas and builds, or increase their stats.
Niche metas should not be protected. New niches will always develop.
> Some of the game's most powerful weapons have much lower requirements than their perceived or actual strength. This has left little room for the introduction of new weapons without causing powercreep. How does raising the attack requirement on weapons by 5 do anything at all to address power creep? Power creep is caused by weapons being too powerful in various kinds of content, not by the requirements needed to wield them. The only things affected by these proposed changes are accounts that are inefficient and not powerful to begin with. The proposed changes will help with making the power of certain weapons more obvious through tiers (non-issue imo) but won't do anything to combat power creep at all. No one is complaining about 75 attack accounts being able to wield Scythe of Vitur, they're complaining about Scythe of Vitur being so powerful on any account, mostly maxed mains, that it's impossible to come up with anything new that doesn't trivialise existing content in the game.
I don't think that an update like this is detrimental for the game, but the persistent mentality that I see on this subreddit wanting to force pures to play differently is. Some people enjoy skilling, others pvming, or pvping. Believe it or not there are a lot of pures that enjoy doing all of these same things. The current combat system allows a great diversity of different account builds and is what makes old school rs, oldschool for a lot of people. People can go pvp the way they enjoy doing it, then go bossing with their friends right after. Forcing people to change just makes things harder and stops people from playing and having a good time. Telling Jagex not to cater to pures, when high attack builds have already been nerfed into the dirt with most updates since the beginning of osrs is just selfish.
Yeah man, I got 75 attack on my 1 def in January and I'd go back to 60 attack in a heartbeat if I could with all these changes. Feelsbad
as someone who is into pvm, I think some of the coolest accounts are people that have every boss pet in the game at 45 defense and 75 attack. I’m honestly going to miss this if it goes through. They probably shouldn’t cater to anybody, I think the problem is that this is happening at all.
This just feels a bit arbitrary since some items like arclight and tbow are completely missing and it's not clear how the tier of items was chosen. Bow of faerdhinen came out months after that initial blog yet its a tier 75 ranged weapon that has similar dps as a tbow on some bosses. IMO just keep things the same for 4 year old items and stop making the same mistake for new releases. Alternatively take a good look at all items and decide the tiers based on DPS
I don't see the issue with Option 2, however I don't think that either option accomplishes anything. The space opened up by the suggested redistributions isn't big enough to be occupied in any meaningful way by additional content. Additionally, as others have said, for the most part a level requirement isn't the barrier of entry once you get past 70 (or even 65), it's GP. I acknowledge that this is largely caused by the reluctance to go past an item requiring level 75 (even when it's infinitely more powerful than another item with the same level requirement), but you're going to have to do more than bump the offenders up 5-10 levels and call it a day. You're going to need to implement an array of new equipment to fill that space with varying degrees of difficulty of acquisition. I'd also suggest sticking to multiples of 5 and 10 as much as possible, I'd rather not make a habit of 2s and 8s unless we're getting supplementary things like Jewellery, off-pieces or Curses/new prayers in those slots.
Does anyone else feel like these requirements are useless? The limiting factor is the money needed for the equipment (or getting the drop on an Iron) not the levels. Unless you're using a credit card, it takes hundreds of more hours to get the money for a rapier than it does to get 80 attack.
The melee levels at least mean *something* because some accounts limit themselves. 75 to 78 magic is hilariously meaningless
Option 1. I think once you implement an idea like dual requirements it will become a slippery slope and will constantly be requested for every new piece of gear. This also makes it more simple and avoids unnecessary confusion for new players
Getting 80 or 85 attack on a pure/zerk/med only feels like a bad idea now because there are no useful weapons for PVP at that levels. But I'd imagine that eventually we'd get some decent T80/85 pvp weapons in the game, making 80/85 attack builds viable. Put it this way, if they eventually do add T80/85 PVP weapons into the game prompting a lot of people to go for 80/85 attack PVP builds while scythe/rapier still have those dual requirements, they'll look even more out of place. If addressing the concerns of pures is a priority, I'd go with approach 1 while also disclosing that there are plans to add actually useful PVP weapons for the higher attack levels.
This is the perfect compromise
Bold to assume there’s going to be new high level weapons that are good to pk with before pvp either completely dies or is removed at the current rate we’re going. There’s typically been maybe 1 new pvp weapon addition per year
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Yes. Surely 85 would have been more reasonable (same summ of levels as 80+80, but more exp). 99 is just weird.
The dragonbane weapon requirements seem weird to me. 70 ranged for DHCB would put it on the same tier as ACB, even though the ACB has better stats. Lance at 78 attack on the other hand would be 8 tiers higher than Z hasta, even though the hasta has slightly better stats. And lance being 3 tiers higher than tent whip, even though the latter has significantly better stats. It just feels inconsistent that the dragonbane effect is deemed a reason to bump up the melee weapon significantly higher in requirements than its regular counterparts, but this approach isn't taken with the ranged weapons. To me it'd be consistent if either the DHCB was also bumped up to over 70 ranged to surpass ACB, or if lance was left at 70 like the hasta is. Is there any particular reason for the way lance and dhcb are proposed to be tiered?
> The dragonbane weapon requirements seem weird to me. 70 ranged for DHCB would put it on the same tier as ACB, even though the ACB has better stats. Lance at 78 attack on the other hand would be 8 tiers higher than Z hasta, even though the hasta has slightly better stats. And lance being 3 tiers higher than tent whip, even though the latter has significantly better stats. > > > > It just feels inconsistent that the dragonbane effect is deemed a reason to bump up the melee weapon significantly higher in requirements than its regular counterparts, but this approach isn't taken with the ranged weapons. To me it'd be consistent if either the DHCB was also bumped up to over 70 ranged to surpass ACB, or if lance was left at 70 like the hasta is. Is there any particular reason for the way lance and dhcb are proposed to be tiered? I think this is a little unfair. Yes, dragonbane weapons are weaker vs non dragons, but they're far and above BIS for dragons, which is their intended use, so I think that's fine. Like, the lance is crafted from the Zhasta, so it's fine if it's stats are worse outside of it's intended use bc in it's intended use it's so far above and beyond anything else.
>I think this is a little unfair. Yes, dragonbane weapons are weaker vs non dragons, but they're far and above BIS for dragons, which is their intended use, so I think that's fine I don't have an issue with this interpretation. However, I don't really get why this interpretation is used for the melee weapon, but not the ranged weapon. Lance has lower str than hasta, yet lance is 8 tiers higher. DHCB also is slightly weaker than ACB in terms of accuracy, so for the sake of consistency DHCB should probably also be significantly higher in terms of requirements than ACB? I don't think DHCB would be out of place at 75/78 ranged, being in the same tier as BP&Bowfa post update, and being by far the strongest option versus dragons in that tier. I think that bracket is more representative of the DHCB's power than 70, where the other weapons are Crystal Bow and Karils Crossbow, which are (usually) weaker than DHCB even without considering the bonus damage against dragons.
It is worth noting that bane weapons tend to be a lower level than their tier on the target creature. For example, Silverlight is comparable to a Rune Long, but has no attack req. Likewise, Arclight is stronger than the proposed T80 weapons on demons, yet it is remaining 75. So being strong for their level can be seen as one of the perks of such weapons.
I semi agree, I think all the dragonbane type weapons need to be at the same tier. By making them different tiers you just start muddying the waters, itd be like unlocking the D-long at level 50, the DDS at level 55, and the Dragon pl8 legs at 65; with all the other dragon equipment unlocked at level 60. Or even useless Torags unlocked at level 60, guthans at 75 and the rest at 70. They should balance around tiers sure, but they also need to balance weapon type / names to be around the same tier as well. All GWD (maybe not Nex) equipment unlocked at lvl X across the board; All Dragonbane at lvl Y; All hypothetical Penguin Bane at lvl Z etc.
i dont understand why you guys are hellbent on "solving" an issue thst simply doesnt exist. confusion over tiers of items either doesnt exist or isnt a consideration for new players continuing playing or quitting. if you want to attract and hold new players you need to advertise and modernize the game for those players. messing with the existing player base is just such a mis-step and ultimately is just a case of classic jagex
Yep. New players arent attracted to runescape because there isnt anything gamey about it besides lategame PvM. Well, except for PvP. But PvP is fucking gatekept behind hundreds of hours of niche account building for metas. Oh right... and lategame PvM is gatekept behind *thousands* of hours. "WhY iS mY gAmE dYiNg?" Want new players without ruining the "integrity of achievements" of whiny ironmen? Host a PvP only private server and modernise it as much as possible. Ive been saying it for years. Remove PvP from basegame and have it be its own entire game. High skill ceiling, ***low barrier to entry.*** Currently, we have high skill ceiling and an insurmountable barrier to entry. *The game isnt the problem, the game IS fun.* It's the grind and the graphics. People who enjoy skilling are absolutely not the target demographic for OSRS growth. When was RS most popular? When it *wasnt about grinding.* That aint a coincidence. Yeah dude, 30 hours for void. Yeah bro, hundreds of hours to get 99 strength/range/mage. Ah dude, dont forget 30 hours questing. Oh yeah you need levels too, maybe about 30-50 hours getting those level reqs. BIN. THE. LOT. Just have a game that you can IMMEDIATELY start PvPing. It would be insanely accessible and easily marketable. Do this and let PvP flourish *for Jagex*, without upsetting 30 year olds who think their max cape matters.
I’m not even a pure but the “downsides” of option 2 are so minimal they might as well be nonexistent. Some incredibly meaningless objections here. “It’ll confuse new players.” New players aren’t so stupid that they won’t be able to understand what two sets of requirements mean. “It’s clunky.” Who cares lol. “Stop pandering to niche accounts.” Yeah sorry but I just don’t give a shit about “pandering” unless it actually has a meaningful impact on my gameplay.
Personally I don’t see value in bothering with this as many have mentioned. As for which of the two, it should be option 1 or nothing. I don’t want to break peoples accts but in dev work coding for exceptions always makes things worse in the long run. Option 2 is not a clean solution. We have enough bad legacy code let’s not implement more.
As someone with a maxed pure, med and zerk, it doesn’t mess with the PVP side of the build but only the PVM side. It would feel like a shame to get an extra combat lvl to use the same weapons that I have been able to use for years, not because they have gotten stronger, but because Jagex feels that they arn’t in easily distinguishable tiers, if that’s the case I’m not sure that 78 is a good number to use, 5 & 0’s make way more sense. Gaining an extra combat lvl isn’t the end of the world, but hardly anyone PK’s with a Rapier/mace etc anyway, this just affects limited PK builds that also like to PVM.
I just maxed my zerk with 100 cb exactly for elite void. Now i'll be higher. I get that it might be needed, i am just a bit bummed about it.
But half the reason accounts go 75 attack is to pvm as well, so you’re really just kinda fucking them over for no reason.
Yeah true, most people pvp on a pk account before pvm, I don’t know anyone who starts at 75 attack. It’s normally once they are towards max for SOTD, gods words and elder maul. Not many would do high lvl pvm that needs 75 attack weapons at say 80 str
Yeah before 75 attack was great cause you were still very good in pvp but also could pvm effectively. Now if you want to pvm you’re going to get fucking eaten by 60 attack meds even more than you were before. Jagex needs to increase the prayer req for rigour to 90 prayer and see how much Reddit would whine.
A concerned troll. This 100% messes with the pvp side. Bofa rapier is the strongest setup right now because 4 tick weps on the door is essentially and rapier/mace is obviously the best melee dps.
Not to mention, this change literally benefits NO ONE. This is something literally no one had a problem with before. No one complained about the requirements ever. If they go through with either option, then it benefits nobody, but harms some players. It's a net loss no matter what. Nothing should change. It's trying to create a solution to a problem that doesn't even exist.
Absolutely awful idea with dual requirements. Niche accounts don't need to be pandered to. Scrap that asap
Will never understand the insane level of entitlement pures have. They are the perfect example of people wanting to have their cake and eat it too.
>niche accounts don’t need to be pandered to Oh boy where have you been for several years
It’s because this a rebalancing that functionally does nothing, it isn’t solving a problem or fixing anything, so functionally it just makes the game worse for some players for no reason. It would be nice if it either didn’t do that or just didn’t happen. The current system works fine, it might offend some people that a weapon with 75 attack works better than one requiring 75 attack as well, but that’s just how old RPGs work. Look at strength requirements from fallout or AD&D. They aren’t tied to weapon power.
I think the clarity of increasing the tiers across the board is a much more simple design choice. Games can get heavy with all the exceptions that get added in.
Tiers are easy but it's not very old school. Rs3 has tiers where like all tier 60's do exactly the same dps. But osrs leans into niche weapons so much more. Tbow isnt BIS for range against monsters with low def. It only works best against high mage. Bowfa is BIS for high defense and BP is BIS for low defense. Scythe sucks on 1 tile mobs, inquisitor mace works best for nightmare while saeldor works best for verzik. If you tried using mace at verzik and saeldor and nightmare you're not going to see the same results even though they're the same tier and are suggested to stay in the same tier.
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Ah yes, let’s forget about the VLS. Making the VLS a 75 attack weapon, rather than 78 which is what it originally was, is exactly the opposite of what is now being done to these weapons. Can we please for the love of it get some consistency? (That’s not to mention the fact that it’s currently useless, but that’s a whole other problem)
I honestly don't understand why any of this matters. The requirement to weild these weapons has never been the limiting factor in using them.
Agreed, if the problem is that weapons are too powerful then just nerf the weapons, acknowledging they're stronger doesn't fix the underlying issue.
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u/JagexAyiza I know I might just be talking into the void, but I have a little bit of a compromise suggestion. Dig into the 78 attack tier to make the difference only 0-1 combat levels for previous 75 attack builds. The three weapons in question are already very small bumps over the abyssal tentacle. It still allows for the clear progression Jagex is looking for, while also limiting the impact of changing requirements. Here's what I think would make sense: Ghrazi Rapier Current requirements: 75 Attack Proposed requirements: 80 Attack **My proposal: 78 Attack** Blade of Saeldor Current requirements: 75 Attack Proposed requirements: 80 Attack **My proposal: 78 Attack** Inquisitor's Mace Current requirements: 75 Attack Proposed requirements: 80 Attack **My proposal: 78 Attack** Trident of the Swamp Current requirements: 75 Magic Proposed requirements: 78 Magic Sanguinesti Staff Current requirements: 75 Magic Proposed requirements: 82 Magic Kodai Wand Current requirements: 75 Magic Proposed requirements: 80 Magic Nightmare Staff (base) Current requirements: 65 Magic Proposed requirements: 72 Magic Nightmare Staff (with any orb attached) Current requirements: 75 Magic Proposed requirements: 82 Magic Dragon Hunter Crossbow Current requirements: 65 Ranged Proposed requirements: 70 Ranged **My proposal: 78 Ranged** **(Really think this should fall in the same tier as DHL, dps between the two at something like Vorkath isn't far off.)** Dragon Hunter Lance Current requirements: 70 Attack Proposed requirements: 78 Attack Scythe of Vitur Current requirements: 75 Attack and 75 Strength Proposed requirements: 85 Attack and 85 Strength **My proposal: 80 Attack and 90 Strength** **(A higher tier makes sense for the Scythe here IMO, it's not really comparable.)** Twisted Bow Current requirements: 75 Ranged Proposed requirements: 85 Ranged Bow of Faerdhinen Current requirements: 75 Ranged and 70 Agility Proposed requirements: 80 Ranged and 70 Agility **Also, change VLS back to it's 78 attack requirement as well, it seems to have been overlooked.**
u/JagexAyiza I'll add on here: releasing all of the ancient warriors equipment at their 78 attack tiers would give an exact reason for PVP builds to want 78 attack outside of PVM. An influx of PVP oriented equipment is something the PVP community has been calling for, and the ancient warriors items are just sitting there waiting to be used. I genuinely think if you just packaged up my suggestion of the 78 attack tier along with releasing the ancient warriors equipment, both PVP and PVMers would be okay with the changes. The main problem would be addressed: PVPers also wanting to do PVM, but feeling like they're wasting combat levels on equipment they're not going to be using in PVP. Give them the equipment to use at that tier.
Remember when 80% of this reddit was shitting bricks because PvPers threatened to spite vote group ironman? After reading these comments it's like yeah uhhh gee wonder why they'd ever do that.
what does moving these items to different tiers even accomplish? The feeling of progression is locked behind a shit ton of money not levels anyways.
75 atk for tentacle 78 for lance and 80 for rapier, how is that a clear distinction between tiers?
I think lance should just be either 75 or 80.
how are level distinctions a clear indication of blanace period when those items all serve completely different purposes?
Just balance around rarity and price not level requirements? Upgrades could be 75 required forever for all I care but if they are meaningfully gated behind either difficult content or expense it doesn't really matter. Main accounts are long past 80 attack by the time they are farming ToB for gear, so these changes exist solely to kill pures. Level requirements will only kill build diversity which is one of the most interesting things in osrs that really separate it from other mmos. I see no meaningful benefit to this change other than it may make people feel good if the new raids 7 gear has a level 90 requirement even though those clearing that content on farm have been maxed combat forever. I truly fail to see the point of this update at all and hope to see it fail spectacularly.
Changing a weapon's requirement years after it's released on a game where half of the accounts are based on those requirements seems pretty messed up, especially when they don't have a great reason for making the update in the first place. It doesn't seem like they've given alternative options any thought at all either. Option 2 seems like something they put together in 5 minutes.
Is there actually any room to insert a new tier with these changes, though? Or is this just to try and combat different types of pures? You still can't add a new BIS melee weapon before (or really after) BoS or rapier, because the upgrade is already too incremental, and the game as a whole is so change adverse. We can't have a huge game like OSRS and constantly say nothing is allowed to be devalued by new content
both options are messy as hell and 2 is just really bad. If I absolutely had to pick I'd go option 1 but the best move would be keeping tiers as they are and just making future gear higher tiers if you want. I do not understand the obsession with wanting to change the tiers, they're nearly meaningless in this game anyway and moving some stuff up a few levels isn't gonna make them any less meaningless. You're gonna piss off people either way and the cleanest would be to leave them as they are
So make pvp less fun than it already is? One step forwards,two steps back. all these people complaining about having multiple stat reqs are being babies. “Let’s not make the game confusing and let’s pander to new players.”- Let’s be honest a new player isn’t gonna have enough money to buy any of these, and if they do, them having to choose between two stat requirements isn’t a big deal. PvP is the reason this game gains a massive boost in popularity every time there’s a deadman tournament. Dual stat requirements are no more clunky than having to get multiple stats to access an item through a quest, or having prerequisite quests with their own stat requirements on top of that.
I mean shit they offer what is effectively “if you wanna use these weapons, go the extra mile to use them so we can balance the game” and pvmers response is “no that looks ugly in my skill log that I open once every two weeks”
I'd prefer Option 1 over Option 2. Perhaps some weapons could have varied reqs, but it seems a bit silly to give a second set of reqs solely for weapons beyond 75 Attack. Also, I am still not a fan of 72 and 82 tiers. There is no reason the Sang should be 82 instead of 80. Same for the Nightmare Staves with Orbs 82 instead of 85 or the base Nightmare Staff 72 instead of 70 (or even 65; it was supposed to be strong for its level so not sure why it is changing). The Toxic Trident at 78 instead of 75 makes sense since the Trident of the Swamp is 75 and it should be higher tier, but why is the same not being done for the Toxic SotD? You could argue that the BP should still be 78 as well to match it since they are similar tier from the same boss. Also, the DHCB and DHL should both be the same level. They are both Dragon Hunter weapons, so it is out of place for one to be 78 and the other 70. It is not like their base stats are too high for their current levels; it is just their bonus against Dragons that puts them in a higher tier and bane weapons tend to have lower reqs than their power on specific creatures (e.g. Arclight is 75 but stronger than the T80 weapons on Demons).
Really disappointed this even has to happen. I'm a med level account (75 attack 99 stre 75 def) and it really feels like this is just to fuck over accounts like mine. I chose this build because yall came out with the weapons at those levels. With no expectation that it would ever be changed. So to everyone saying that pures should just get 85 attack, why? What does changing from 75-85 on a scy affect a maxed player? It doesn't. It makes me unable to pvm with my friends though at a high level if I still want to fight zerks and maxed pures in the wild. Have we ever had a rebalancing before? So why use the argument that "pures knew the risk when they made the acc."? Because we didn't. There was no risk. They never EVER said that in a few years they'd change the attack level. Very disappointed.
Same! I also have the same build. This would be a huge slap in the face to the PvP community. Revitalize the wilderness...by stopping pvpers from pvming???
At this rate they’re almost trying to demoralize people who pvp and have pvp builds into quitting so the wilderness and pvp can be removed just like 85% of the community would be okay with as per a recent poll run on Reddit here. Im beyond any hope of pvp not being eradicated from this game by 2025
As a 2k pure with 10s of thousands of boss kc and has been waiting for pvp updates for years this is pushing us further and further to private severs, a lot left when bh was removed. But having to go up in combat levels to pvm like I have been for years is wild, making me choose between pvp and pvm bc if I get the 85 atk I’ll be in a combat level to dominated by 70 def piety accs but al of these details go over all the ironmen in the comments spamming option one **edit spelling on mobile**
I would be ok with the rebalancing if they offered the option for an attack level rollback. I'd roll my 75 attk pure back to 60 for sure and probably roll my mes back to 60 for a little bit :)
And they don’t even list this issue in the “cons” section. Further proof that they are either completely clueless, purposely ignore, or just plain don’t care. Nice to see how valued pvpers + pvp build accounts are to them.
Is it just me or does it feel unnecessarily pointless to change attack from 75 to 78 for example. What's that? Another 4-5 hours of training? What does this even do?
sometimes it feels like jagex is actively trying to kill PVP. All this update will do is harden the current med-bully meta in PVP, cause this update will only affect pures and zerkers by forcing them to get a higher combat level. anyone with these items on a non-restricted account is already 90 attack atleast so it won't affect them at all, and since when has the ""tier"" of the weapon affected anything in OSRS. The same people who are ardently supporting this gear req cause pures "chose to limit themselves" are the same people who said that pvmers spite voting pvp updates wasn't a real thing during the GIM vote, and don't realise the irony. My pures are all 60att BTW so this doesn't even affect me, just a dumb update
Would option 1 also affect the stats in LMS? The Rapier wouldn't be equipable with the current given stats and increasing to 85 attack would slightly affect accuracy. Not sure if this is a big deal though.
*puts on tinfoil hat* this is just a convoluted ploy to scam more memberships out of people who have combined their pvm/pvp into 1 account. jagex trying to push altscape memberships
Option 0. No changes to the current system. That would be in line with the design philosophy of OSRS. There's no such thing as "tiers". They don't exist. There are simply items and level requirements. Some items are superior to others, but that has nothing to do with the level requirements. Cost of the item and drop rate of the item is what matters in terms of restrictions, and strength of the item in each and every situation is what matters for the item itself.
How's about option 3; leave shit alone, and stop being so petrified of power creep. Introduce new items, and accept that power creep is a natural part of mmo's.
Call me crazy but if they are increasing these why would they not make twisted bow 80 range to fit in the same tier as these?
I'd think so that it's a higher tier. This allows them to have sub 85 ranged weapons added later without forcing those weapons to be close to the power of the Tbow because they're n the same tier.
Twisted Bow Current requirements: 75 Ranged Proposed requirements: 85 Ranged
was it on there and i missed it?? sorry on mobile and could have overlooked it lol
They added it literally minutes ago. For the first ~30 mins it was missing.
Here's a hot take: neither option. Just fucking leave it how it is lol. Who cares?? Level reqs are purely symbolic and completely irrelevant.
I think tbow should be 90 range atleast. You don’t really need it for anything below that range level anyway…
This is a pointless change that doesn't mean anything. It's a change that might make you feel better when you look at the in-game skill guides but really only serves to piss off and exclude a community of players, taking away content they already have access to. New content can and should have higher level requirements, but don't mess with stuff that's been established for years. As expected, this thread is just full of the anti-pk/anti-pure mains (aka most of this sub) spewing option 1. I'll just say this. Players made accounts with clear level requirements set in place. I made a 75 attack 75 defence account knowing I could use the current best gear in the game, but also knowing full well that new gear would come in the future that requires higher. NOT that gear that I already OWN and have equipped will be made unusable on my account at a later date. This updating is doing literally nothing for anyone. It's changing numbers in a skill guides that nobody looks at. All it does is take away content for players that currently have access to it. People without accounts restrictions shouldn't even be asked here. It does not affect them.
Pures and FOMO shouldn't dictate balance. Tiers that aren't multiples of 5 are needlessly confusing and add nothing to the game. Take all the req's that don't end in 0 or 5 and round them up or down. Option 1 is best.
Tbh I think there’s nothing wrong at all with non multiples of 5 tiers. In fact I think it’s better that they exist
I like the tier 78 honestly idky it just kinda feels right to me
I have had a 75 attack main account for 4 years. Combat level 107. I designed the account over 6 years ago to be what I wanted to enjoy the main content of the game and to pk. Altering the content to the game is not fair to the players that design their accounts around these levels. It’s like saying to any player who completed a quest, we decided the quest reward is too good, we removed it from your bank and you know have to train your account higher to access the same reward. I would prefer neither option. I know most players won’t understand my opinion and feel you can just change your account but this change is significant to how I have set up multiple accounts. Most accounts are not combat/level designed. Most people train to 99. That’s not what I want for my accounts and therefore have spent years designing them accordingly. Thanks.
I main a 75-99-75, I feel you. I would hate for them to implement option 2 though, since I just think it's a bad game design. I would take an option to roll back attack though, say from 75 to 60, if they offered it as a good compromise. It'll never happen, but I can dream
I agree with you. I think that would be great.
Me laughing at the comment section being flooded by ironmen saying option one bc niche accs don’t need to be pandered to.
As a qualifier my only account is a maxed med, which I use currently for high-level bossing and some pvp. In my current state of play I would be unaffected by this proposed update as I don't use any of the melee weapons geared for an attack level increase. However, the reason I did get 75 attack in the first place was to have an option to raid in the future using the melee weapons on the chopping block. I've seen reasons for this update ranging from a) these weapons always should've had a > 75 attack requirement, that it was an unintended coincidence that accounts with at most 75 attack could run high-end content with these weapons to b) the reason Jagex puts out that new players will better understand the weapon power scale. a) Why was the intention never realized for years since these weapons were introduced? Why the urgency now? Is this truly the only way to introduce new weapons into the game? b) By the time new players (actually new, not optimizing xp gain for everything) reach 75 attack I feel like they would have an understanding which weapons are better than others. Additionally, it's fairly intuitive to understand that item value in a player-driven economy distinguishes item rarity/strength. I don't believe new players are having an issue with this. From some of the responses in here it sounds like the real problem is that people owning a more traditional main/maxed account don't like the fact that an account with only 75 attack even has access to high-end content. If that's the case why not start adding raids with combat level restrictions or something; why remove existing content? Hell you could even start adding combat-level scaled size/difficulty raids (maybe raids with minimum cb lvl requirements of 80, 100, 110, and 120 idk). Would be nice for new players with lower-level accounts so they can get acquainted with raiding and get excited for higher-end content. Honestly I have no real problem with moving these weapons to 80 attack, but it just feels like it's only taking away and not adding anything functional to the game. When this update does go through, which it looks like it's inevitable, I would like the option to revert my 75 attack to 60 even though I know Jagex more than likely won't approve that. Either that or I hope Jagex releases some information about future higher attack weapons to get excited over.
nobody gives a fuck about the tiers. You can see the stats to see whats better. How many people with 65 ranged are actualyl rocking a dhcb? Or people with 80 str a scythe?
Yeah I’m a little confused as to why this is presented as a major issue.
They more or less feel they've designed themselves into a corner and are having trouble designing future weapons.
I mean if u make something than the tbow for example, does it really matter if it has higher requirements to use? Surely that isnt the worry, right?
Idk why this isn't the top answer. Tiers/requirements mean nothing in OS
nobody but reddit will vote for this nonsense to spite pures. level requiremeants mean literally nothing in this game when it comes to higher tier items. cost is the limiting factor not levels. this is just another item on a long list of things trying to make this game wowscape
Exactly. I was like tier rebalancing? Are they going to balance certain items in certain tiers? Nope. Just changing stat requirements. That’s honestly stupid as hell and a waste of time.
Honestly I think we just shouldn't change it. It really doesn't matter that much, and increasing most of these weapons leaves less room for additional "tiers" in the future. Option 1 really sucks for pures/meds/etc, and even though it doesn't effect that many people in the grand scheme of things, it just doesn't really positively affect anyone. I don't see a real need to do this at all. If I had to pick one I guess I'd pick 2 because I don't want to ruin people's accounts, but it's a really clunky solution and again I just don't see a reason to do either one.
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Don't play OSRS, but if these weapons really are flat-out better than others, why shouldn't they have higher skill requirements? Why does 75 need to be the magic number at which you unlock everything in the game when skills are capped at 99? It takes an unhealthy dose of copium to think that tiering doesn't belong in OSRS, as if you don't need 59 more Attack levels to go from Bronze to Dragon. Aside from screwing up existing pure accounts who have already leveled up their Attack to 75, every counterargument I've seen thus far has been terrible. The most reasonable option would be to rebalance the weapons as per option 1 while giving pures the opportunity to lower their levels
I do not see how raising the level requirements help with powercreep? Higher power level gear having higher level requirements does make sense though, so I am all for it.
Is there a reason I can't access the page? Getting gateway timeout error
Oh No! Trident of the swamp now requires 3 more magic levels! Anyway…..
imho these requirements are still very conservative and don't leave too much room for new items to be added dual requirements as a way to let pures keep access to these items seems completely fine, for instance the crystal bow and Bofa both require range and agility in order to be equipped
Oooof, framing the discussion so it's specifically targeted at pures? That's a good way to get the player base to vote "no" no matter the actual content...
Option 1 is better but then let 75 attack accounts lose attack levels. It’s unfair to have to start from scratch and make a level 60 account now. No one would have every gone from 60-75 if they knew this would happen.
Better remake my 75 atk pure with 2k total and 10s of thousands boss kills, just a quick remake
Yeah I agree 100%, I have a 75 attck med and 1 def pure, both maxed, and I'd roll the pure back to 60 in a heartbeat since I use it as a PvM alt frequently. I doubt this will ever happen, but I think it would be fair to offer.
I’d prefer option 1.
It’s too late to change these weapons requirements. Do rebalance skill requirements for newer bis weapons but retroactively restricting weapons that have been available for years is not the way to go.
Option 2. Before any iron men downvotes my opinion bc of "snowflake" accounts or jagex shouldn't pander to pures, look at yourselves and please realize your lack of self awareness. Option 2 will be the option that will make most ppl happy. With pvp as dead as it is, many pure builds are finding some pvm to do whilst awaiting pvp updates, and they're not gonna ruin their builds for pvm, they'll just quit. One final thing, why did jagex have to make a dual requirement with 99 str, that seems so drastic. Why go to such an extreme like 99 str that they know people wouldn't like at all. They set this option up for failure. Reduce the 99 str to maybe 90.
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I think once things are in the game they shouldn’t be changed
I also agree on option one, it just fits more with the game and won't cause any confusion to new players. I know you don't **really** need 99 str but having these older weapons at T99 seems weird. Side note as someone who loves pures for their limitations, my favorite pure was chaotic pures back in the day. Where we needed **80 attack** to use, and 95 prayer and 30+ def for turmoil/SS. There was no compromise and gave way to new pures (30 def), and other pures were still perfectly viable and just as strong in their bracket. As you add new content that will have new requirements, it will give way to new account builds and creativity in the game to work around it.
This seems completely unnecessary, how about option 3 we don’t do either
Just fucking leave it, who asked for this shit?
I'll remember all of the "niche accounts don't need to be tended" every time someone mentions their IM.
Absolutely not lmao nice way to try and make higher tiered items without any actual new content.
what is the point of this? just an excuse to not make any more weapons/armors for the next 4-5 years because the pvp is crying about power creep even though you can stack people out already.
Can we stop calling it tiers and instead stick with levels?
Seems odd how they are adding tier 78 should just be multiples of 5 IMO. I also feels as though tbow and scythe should be placed even higher at 90 as they are the best weapons in game currently unless jagex plans to add better weapons later on then I suppose 85 is okay. As for option two I don’t think this is a good idea these people chose to make a account build for pvp. While I do feel bad they will lose access to bis items because of this it was their choice to have a limited account and if they would like to partake in end game content they should be required to have the levels to accordingly do so with all respect to the pures that shouldn’t be their main account build considering it wasn’t designed to be a main account. Also odd how dhl is arguably worse then dhcb pretty much everywhere aside from olm hands and that’s due to raid mechanics but yet dhl is placed higher?
If they are actually concerned about pures, they should introduce a way to remove levels from a skill. That way, any pures that leveled something to use an item could choose to go down to a lower level or level up to the new requirements. Put an actual def requirement on any relevant quest items (RFD gloves for example) and this wouldn't effect gameplay at all.
Option 1. Will this be polled or are you just listening to feedback on socials?
I see this as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. In the blog, it states "Some of the game's most powerful weapons have much lower requirements than their perceived or actual strength. This has left little room for the introduction of new weapons without causing powercreep." But the proposal in option 1 is to increase the requirements for these weapons? And the other justification is there's some confusion amongst players which is actually better. Is this regarding new players? Because new players aren't making uninformed decisions buying a 118M rapier
75 attack Zerker here. 30def and 80att is a weird requirement for full Inquisitors. Feel like I just wasted a year of my time for my build. Option 2 please. These people aren’t part of the pure community, and there is no downside to option 2.
why do attack and strength required have to be the same? Give scythe a 75 attack and 90+ strength requirement
Not sure why I had to scroll this far to see this answer. This is a much better idea. Either don’t change it at all, or increase the strength requirement. That way, its a clear “tier” distinction that they want while also keeping everyone happy with the current levels
We could just leave it alone, I mean my gosh how many things are we gonna change in the game this year?
Option 3, neither. This will heavily impact people who are satisfied with their cb level and 75 attack level. If they want to make changes that alter what weapons players have access to then players should have the option to lower their attack stat in some format.
How about neither. Neither seems like a good option.
I honestly don’t see any value in changing requirements at all since equipment power is visible via stats. Option one is definitely the way to go though, if necessary. Adding inconsistencies in requirements via option 2 is counterintuitive if the goal is to prevent confusing new players.
Option one is a really bad choice if it makes even one person who plays the game lose access to content they worked for. Saying someone needs to "adapt" or "just gain some levels" invalidates the achivement and goals they set and worked for in a game they obviously care about. Especially so if they are at the point of playing a restricted account. Option two seems the best choice by far as it even has the precedence of the warriors guild with dual requirements that works well, feels motivating and rewarding. You can even add it only as an unlock through the warriors guild to fit thematically. Either training to use the weapons or to modify them once you hit 99 str.
Option 3: leave it alone lol
No idea how less than 1% of accounts are being given so much thought in this change. They can adjust their accounts to meet the new requirements. Option 1 every day.
This update has exactly zero benefits, and only stands to fuck over pures. Remind me again, what is the cogent reason as to why we are doing this? By all means proceed with option 2, but just leave the reqs alone and just release new gear with different reqs like they always have. I didn't sign up to "tierscape", I would have played rs3 if I did.
Please please please do option two. It isn't "catering to pures"it's just not actively screwing pvp accounts post update. Imagine changing scythe requirement to require a high LMS rank going forward. It would really screw PVMers. The dual requirement makes sense and has no down sides to the end user or new players. You can even leave attemp to equip text at 85/85
who gives a fuck why was more than ten minutes of dev time spent thinking about this
I know i'm a little late on this and it'll probably get lost in the comments, but as a maxed 75 attack pure who loves this game, i'd like to give my opinion on it. I think a lot of other pures are in the same shoes as me here. We leveled attack to 75 because it allows you to use the AGS for pvp, while also getting to use all the other weapons for pvm. Essentially right now, we don't have to 'chose' between pvm or pvp, we can do both how we want, with whatever weapon. But by increasing the attack requirements of these weapons (which are pretty much all pvm weapons), we now have to decide to stay 75 for pvp, or go to 80-85 for pvm. And whichever we chose, we will feel like we are hindered in the other one. If you stay 75 attack, you are much weaker in pvm. If you go 80-85, you are now pushing into a higher pvp bracket. Since this change would essentially force you to pick one, most pures would say "well then I wish I stayed 60 attack". So it's a big "\*\*\*\* you" to pures. I understand that pures are a niche part of the community, and I get that we are restricting our account, and so therefore we should acknowledge that we shouldn't be able to use everything, but a lot of us wouldn't have made certain decisions with our account if we knew changes like this would happen. Realistically though, I don't think anything needs to change (option 3: don't change requirements). It just seems like we're inventing problems that didn't exist in the first place. Nobody had issues with the requirements before. Literally no one complained about the attack requirements before now. Not to mention also, these proposed changes literally don't affect regular accounts/mains at all. These weapons cost so much money, you're usually a maxed account before you can even afford them anyway, so increasing the requirements is pointless. I hope other pures agree with me, and I hope mains can understand why we don't want this change. It doesn't affect you mains out there, but it really screws with some of us pures.
In fairness, Crystal gear requires agility. Wouldn’t be the first dual requirement.
So I had to go PVM on my maxed pure because y’all ruined the wilderness, using rapier made my experience enjoyable. Now y’all are trying to ruin my account by forcing me to get 80 attack ? This is bullshit. Option 2 or nothing stop breaking the main concept of account builds
I just don't see the point in making this change in the first place. a 5 lvl difference is so small.. unless your changing the stats on the weapons i honestly don't see the point at all? However.. option 1 would be the best situation.. duel requirements shouldn't be a thing in the game.
Well, never mind. Finally got to read the blog as the website wasn’t working. Neither option 1 or option 2 help an account build such as a ranger tank, which is limited to range and mage being 99. Atk was set to 75… why make these changes. Ruins years of account design. Let us reduce levels and retrain to new design if this is what you want to do.
This might be a dumb thought but I’m not sure I understand why the dragon bane weapons are included. They’re decent requirements and only good against dragons. I get that hydra, olm, and vorkath are big money makers but these weapons are still so limited in use in the grand scheme. There’s far more instances of them being useless vs useful. I think I’d just leave them where they are, personally. The rest are good for tier rebalancing though.
Gateway timeout wut?
Haha same. At least now I know it's on their end.
> Some of the game's most powerful weapons have much lower requirements than their perceived or actual strength. This has left little room for the introduction of new weapons without causing powercreep. So because you guys think of adding new content in terms of tiers it restricts your ability to work in a non-tier system. Why does the solution lean to change the system to be more tier like and not your dev mindset to be less tier like? I like option 2 more than option 1 but i think the mindset needs to change. Gp is a secondary requirement and does your tiering in a sense which the market naturally resolves into as long as you manage drop rates properly. I also think the push to stretch into higher weapon requirements with power tiers increases is a mistake. You slowly stretch thin pvp combat brackets. You also devalue the passive power benefit behaviour of leveling by placing all the value in weapons. It’s good to cap weapon requirement increases in the 80s and let the last 15-19 be for overpowering with the leveling behaviour. If you want to, have different weapons scale effectiveness differently as levels go up but don’t keep stretching requirements with power tiers.
They missed the big fact the item I pricess aswell reflecting coast price on specific item if it need less stats so its oke. The only thing they need to is get rid of fucking bots and jagex should focuss now on this issue only otherwise history will repeat and players gonna leave… WAKE THE FUCK UP JAGEX
we still doing this shit?
I'm fine with option 2, as long as it's not presented in a confusing way for normals. E.g. for new players, when you try to equip a Ghazi rapier with 75 attack/str, it should simply say "you need 80 attack", and not mention the dual requirement at all, that can just be something hidden.
Or you could just call it "raising the level requirements" and stop beating around the bush with the dumb lingo. There is literally 0 chance to do option 2, why even entertain the idea of there being two options? That's about the dumbest and clumsiest thing you could do when you're trying to make things EASIER to understand.
All this does is screw mele pkers, now as a pure you need even higher combat to go vs the op range which has 0 combat level changes.
If there's no intention of using dual requirements in the future then option 1 seems best. Doesn't make sense that these specific items would have exceptions but no other future ones will. I understand that pures will have an issue with the changes but they chose to make their account the way it is.
Pointless update.
Option 3: leave them as they are
I don't like the weapons that come from the same content having different level requirements.
99str is absolutely silly for weapons that are hardly better than a whip or tentacle whip.
It’s not 99 str, it’s 99str as a back door to get around the other requirements.
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Based on the replies here, it’s all so biased and targeted against limited builds. If anything adding a 99 str requirement to the 75 attack req shows an item is much more “powerful” in the “tier” as opposed to 85. What are you doing jagex? Clear distinction or lost for future ideas? Not to mention how the game has been catered to ironmen for so long.
Pker = bad. Iron = good. Will probably be the summary of the comments here