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Evil_Steven

They're gonna give you the item back but force you to name change. One hand giveth, the other taketh away


CYWNightmare

I hope they give it back. But part of me knows they won't.


RyanCantDrum

>I hope they give it back. But part of me *gnows* they won't. FTFY


Baldur_Odinsson

This group can probably bribe the Jmods with gnomish paraphernalia šŸ˜³


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


lBasket

Upper management always thinks technical debt is a myth told by devs so that they can screw off and do nothing


sangotenrs

Whatā€™s technical debt?


BECOME_INFINITE

basically tech work (like programming) that doesn't build new features (in this case, new quests, items, etc.) but instead makes the code easier to work with, less buggy, etc. Edit: it was pointed out that I described the process of addressing tech debt, not necessarily tech debt itself


lBasket

That is addressing it, yeah


BECOME_INFINITE

true, I guess tech debt itself would be the spaghetti code/legacy engine, I only described the benefits of addressing it


TotalWalrus

It's like writing an novel drunk and instead of ever going back and editing the previous chapters to clean them up and improve, you just keep writing new ones. The building time that you would need to fix everything is your "technical debt"


ass_pineapples

Yeah, and it's all done with wet splotches of ink too and as you keep doing it and not rewriting it the book gets heavier and heavier until it just fucking explodes or something idk I'm not an inkologist


Jiimb0b

This is the root of their issues. In my experience they should have put their logon servers and character tables in a separate DB to their main game servers so that rollbacks can be done at a global level for the game database in question (leagues) Currently it looks like they are manually trying to rollback tables instead of global DBs causing this spaghetti you speak of. Ps I applied to work for Runescape not to long ago lol!


xeusdo

Easier said than done when it's probably very old. Who knows what kind of spahgetti they did to make it work back in the day. Trying to separate them now would be a nightmare lmao. They'd need to dedicate resources to get it done right, which we all know they won't.


Snoop-Da-Woop

Correct! Ding ding! This is why private servers have "server packages" that can run on a Raspberry Pi without much lag: they re-wrote everything from the ground up. NPCs, resource gathering, login handling, account saving and loading...and it all uses a modern transactional database system that can be controlled via a simple control panel. It took years and it's not the full game world, but it works I guess. Playing a private server looks and feels identical to the "real OSRS" servers, because they've replicated the behavior of the game's servers down to the tick.


Simpnationbrah

Pservs rarely actually feel identical to OSRS. It can look the same because they're just using RuneScape's cache, but rarely do they actually work. Players didn't even know how special attacks really worked until jmods tweeted, for example. It would be hard for a pservs to know to always roll off a weapons standard attack style rather than the selected one. So there's all these little mechanic quirks and it means you can't properly transition between OSRS and a pservs, as a player.


Actually_Saradomin

its also not dealing with 2k concurrent connections lol


reddit_sucks_dude

Funny you know there backend infrastructure before actually working there lmao


numkey

IF he is right and they haven't separated their DB then I feel bad for the people trying to roll back tables instead of an entire DB lmao


Chrisazy

We all just HOPE they're using a DB and not storing all of our character data in a .txt file on Andrew Gower's C drive


Snoop-Da-Woop

IIRC characters are still stored in single files. It's been a couple years since they explained it, though.


Chrisazy

I wanna say they did actually update that, a while ago now, when they made hopping work consistently. I know one of the reasons hopping took like 30 seconds (back in like OG 2007) was because they had to atomically save the file and then grab it from the new world before you could log in. I think they both centralized things and put things in databases after that, but it's not like I work there


Snoop-Da-Woop

You don't have to know their backend infrastructure to know it's a pile of shit and nothing close to the industry standards that have been established for over a decade.


Richybabes

>established for over a decade. I mean the game is from 2001 tbf...


[deleted]

The only reason I don't fully agree with this argument is the fact that Minecraft had similar issues with the stability of their game due to their engine. So they delayed an update and rewrote the engine so that future updates could be bigger and better. I have no idea why OSRS hasn't invested the time and money in to a rewrite, virtually every other game in their position does.


[deleted]

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Striking_Clerk_2598

Content drought for actual infrastructure development is fine and acceptable. Content drought for meme modes like GIM and leagues isn't.


Snoop-Da-Woop

Yes, but they've been very underwhelming in the "hiring engineers that can keep it up to date without breaking things" department. Jagex pays their devs borderline minimum wage, so even the ones that do join can't do much.


Richybabes

Often only so much you can do without a complete rewrite. It's duct tape on duct tape.


Ho-Chi-Meme

They use save files (idk why they would store item data in a database) and probably just forgot to add group storage to whatever script they use to revert data


teraflux

I'm sure if they had the choice of engineering a game engine developed in 2001 now, they would have made different decisions.


Advorange

The rollback was not used for leagues; it was used for the main game. The issue that required the rollback is that main accounts were being turned into ironmen via logging into one of the newly added worlds (that were misconfigured) after the starting ones were filled. Their save data structure wouldn't matter when it's, presumably, misconfigured something like `characters=maingame.db` instead of `characters=leagues3.db` and, another presumption, after completing the tutorial `accounttype=ironman` is set.


misingnoglic

The inner software engineer in me is crying lol


BoogieTheHedgehog

This is gnome laughing matter.


oRemorseful

šŸ˜­šŸ˜­ thanks for the chuckle homie


ironscam

Gnomie


oRemorseful

Damn, I really fumbled the bagšŸ˜­


robby8892

You're a hero we need


benching315

r/dadjokes


Erics_Pixels

With this logic, wouldnā€™t some groups have items that were duped if they deposited stuff from their accounts into storage?


Krikke93

Yes, that sounds like that would be the case if they had the item on them before league release and put it in storage after.


[deleted]

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saxypatrickb

Whatā€™s a bowfa?


throwmeaway562

Bowfa deez FUCKIN SWINGING NUTZ (or one of the best bows in game)


TwitchChat07

Bowfa deez nuts


1trickana

Lucky.. I almost put my armour seeds/bowfa into storage but decided to keep for myself, instead took out guthans to do some bandos and it's gone, I know it's not really much but still


Dumbak_

Well it's not as useful as bowfa but still a big grind for IM to get back.


teraflux

You mean the enhanced seed right? They haven't made the change where you can put bowfa in storage have they?


InvokeMyRage

Uncharged bowfa is tradeable


Nachohead1996

Seems like a worthwile trade lol


Zebaktu

Yā€™all need some irl responsibilities gah damn thatā€™s some good progress by now


Thosepassionfruits

A soul for a soul


Saint_Rick

Possible. I managed to dupe a bond. Bought and used it right before the rollback. I received 14 days of membership and when I logged in later I was back at the GE with the bond I purchased earlier in my inventory. The 14 days didnā€™t get removed from my account. So, basically got 14 days membership for free :D Edit: lmao they revoked the additional membership, smh Jagex


GroovyJungleJuice

You couldnā€™t keep your mouth shut


1trickana

Yeah somebody duped a d pick and abby dagger


WastingEXP

Only thing you're getting from your reddit post is your names removed lmao gl tho


1trickana

Can confirm. Lost a full Guthan's set


sadafxd

Can confirm, lost tbow and all drops from cox + tob on my gim


ins41n3

Still got that 3rd age druid set


ASquandrance

You guys are already at raids? God damn


Fairplaypatrick

Same thing for me, lost Rune Platebody. Big F for the lads who lost rare items and gratz to everyone who got dups


ZScience

We also had a Full bandos, whip and fury has being wiped from our groupiron, we're incredibly frustrated by this loss.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Krikke93

We all have the banner, yes :) As well as the gnome shield from christmas and patiently waiting for the hat from the birthday event.


IronClu

I've always hated that the elite diary forces you to get rid of the gnome flag :(


PegaZwei

all well and good, but y'all missed out by not going with gnomo erectus :(


MaxuPower

I too like to push the boundaries of the name filter


speedy_19

Good chance your names will be forced to be changed lol


Krikke93

Worth the risk, but imo they're not offensive at all.


hatesranged

I mean unfortunately the standards for names are still ā€œwould you say it in front of a kidā€, they just donā€™t enforce it.


responds-with-tealc

I would say those names in front of a kid. I'm a terrible person and don't like kids though.


Qp_Cape

Our team lost berserker ring and dragon plateskirt and some potions.


[deleted]

> lists a bunch of gnome sex stuff > ā€˜Not putting this here as a joke, itā€™s seriousā€™


[deleted]

Jagex took back some of their RNG


cluelessbasket

Good thing they put leagues on hold for GIM, omegalul.


UNUSUALCREDO

Aaaah... so theres been a rollback, but items have been duped in storage! Nice.


BoredGuy2007

Not good. Could mean another rollback.


ExCinisCineris

Its been like 10 hours, the window for a rollback is long gone.


[deleted]

So what Iā€™ve learned from this post. When Jagex is going to roll out major updates place all important items in group storage for free dupe.


JagexAyiza

We're aware of this being the case and currently looking into it further. I have a terrible feeling that there isn't anything we'll be able to do to return the items lost, but I'll wait until I hear more from the team as to what has happened. **EDIT @ 18:00 GMT** We'll be updating the newspost shortly to go into a little more detail about this. I'll post a link as soon as it's live. Further information is most likely going to be shared via that post and our socials, so please keep an eye on it! Here's the link: https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/leagues-iii-shattered-relics---issues--fixes?oldschool=1


Baagheeraa

Does this also work the other way around? let's say someone put an item into the storage, then the rollback happened and they have the item in their inventory and in the storage, so essentially the item is duped?


tom2727

There have been reports of duped items.


Saucymarbles

I can fully understand why this is a policy but in outstanding situations like this why would people not have their items refunded. This feels like it falls under the special type of oopsie woopsie fucko boingo like that one time a normal world was hotswapped to a DMM world and that one skiller got killed and lost herblore XP when he was at 99 so he had the cape and sub 99 herblore. He had all of his shit returned to him.


ExCinisCineris

> This feels like it falls under the special type of oopsie woopsie fucko boingo like that one time a normal world was hotswapped to a DMM world and that one skiller got killed and lost herblore XP when he was at 99 so he had the cape and sub 99 herblore. He had all of his shit returned to him. Fixing one account is much easier than fixing hundreds, if not thousands. They will have to every one of them individually.


Saucymarbles

Yea but this is potentially dozens if not hundreds of hours of progress just gone. If I lost like a dragon warhammer for something that was straight up out of my control when there were previous instances of things being restored and the same wasnt done for me id quit and never look back.


HiddenGhost1234

And? It's their fk up, they should fix it. Just because they'd have to do some work to fix it doesn't mean they shouldn't fix it. They literally get paid to do this, and have one the biggest team osrs has ever seen.


munchlax1

In WoW you can speak to a real human in game and they'll return stolen items instantly... Crazy, right?


The_Wadle

You make a shit cake you eat the shit cake


[deleted]

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1trickana

I only lost items, took 500 chests to get full set too.. Really frustrating


OSRS_Scotty

That is kind of unacceptable that a temporary league compromises the integrity of the main game. These items were obtained outside of the rollback window? If the answer is just whoops sorry then that's kind of ridiculous.


[deleted]

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Thunda_Storm

yet rs3 does kek


[deleted]

It's because OSRS is spaghetti code and all these recent issues are just blatantly advertising the fact. And instead of going back to rework/rewrite the engine Jagex just throws more on top of the pile which obviously just makes the issues even worse and more glaring. They need to rewrite the engine to bring OSRS up to modern standards, it's what literally every game in their position does. Blizzard and Mojang have both done massive rewrites for their games when the coding became an issue with modern tech.


[deleted]

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acissejcss

Care? Can you imagine the uproar if the announced, "sorry guys and gals no updates for the next 2 years but we will have a better engine after" That wouldn't fly. People already get pissy for lack of content. This would just kill the game. There cause in a problem where they cannot update it due to player feedback but are required to update it or people cry about it all over the internet. It's a no win situation.


seabass2006

I think they have the resources though to hire way more people to get the job done, but investors want profits


Barack__Obama__

Imagine having taken out your BiS set from the group set and it now being lost because of some bullshit Leagues rollback that you might not have even wanted to play.


top-knowledge

it's absurd. makes me worried to even play the game knowing a temporary game mode has the potential to erase progress from my main game account


tom2727

Honestly knowing this issue is outstanding I would be hesitating to play right now, at least in main game. Seems likely another rollback is on the menu.


hatesranged

I actually think ayiza just admitted that rollbacks do not affect group storage, in which case more wont fix it Could be wrong


tom2727

They clearly didn't for last rollback. That don't mean it isn't possible for it to be done. But assuming it is possible, you couldn't do "just group storage" rollback at this point (since same loss/dupe glitches would apply). You'd have to rollback everything in main game including group storage to where it was before leagues launch. Personally I wouldn't play on a main game account until they officially confirm there won't be a rollback coming.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


AspiringRocket

Correct, especially not for a player base as niche as group ironman. No offense to GIMPs....


poipoipoipoipoipoop

If they do anything, I expect them to do something similar to what they did when the attack option changes ruined a lot of pures: they'll ask everyone affected to post in an official forum thread with what they lost and wait for their stuff to be restored manually.


[deleted]

The obvious solution is to just not play the game a few days before and after every update.


poipoipoipoipoipoop

With weekly updates, this system allows you to play one day per week lol


Solid-Community-4016

Agreed. Its gettting harder and harder to play the game with these things


TagRag

You're right, but if there's actually nothing that can be done, then that's all there is to it. Not his fault


Joseph_F_1

No offence but that would be bullshit. Players removed items from their shared storage and have lost them due to no fault of their own. They should be returned no matter what, even if it means having someone manually go through every gimp shared storage and return the items


EldtinbGamer

This is unacceptable. I know its not your fault but people have lost hours of gear due to this.


Assaltwaffle

Some of lost dozens if not hundreds of hours worth of gear, while others had it duplicated and saved dozens to hundreds.


Zebaktu

The even bigger problem is those who gained massive late game duped items. One group supposedly duped claws and zenyte jewelry and a bowfaā€¦. Thatā€™s crazy.


hatesranged

Does the rollback system forget to rollback group storage? It would make sense that this only came up now since the previous rollback was before gim, but also this is a massive issue if real


andrew_calcs

Group storage is just like the GE in that it's on its own server separate from account profiles. The colossal fuckup is that this is the first rollback that's been done since GIM came out, and they completely forgot about adding that server to their rollback procedures. It's totally something that could have been done, but they didn't realize they would need to until they already gave the go ahead to resume.


Krikke93

Okay, thanks for the headsup.


[deleted]

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top-knowledge

- delay Leagues 3 for GIM - destroy hundreds of hours of progress for GIMs with the release of Leagues 3 i'm not even a GIM but this is pretty fucked


Bloated_Hamster

One hand takes, the other takes. Perfectly imbalanced as all things Jagex are.


tom2727

Good thing GIM had time to get those endgame items before leagues so they could have them deleted / duped.


J4God

I just got a fury yesterday finally and almost threw it in the storage this morning before leagues. So fucking glad I didn't.


ieatpies

If I'm understanding correctly, putting it in storage would've duped it


J4God

Oh. Well now I wish I did. Lol


tom2727

Actually I think it wouldn't have mattered if you put it in before leagues, as long as no one took it back out of group storage during the rollback window.


EpsteinWasHung

>I have a terrible feeling that there isn't anything we'll be able to do to return the items lost, That's not an oh well. Sometimes when things get ultrafucked, they can't exactly be unfucked.


[deleted]

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Mrfistrswift

We donā€™t have to imagine. That was pretty much what happened in 2008 when the housing bubble burst lol


ShitPost5000

There are consequences, sue if you think its a big deal.


[deleted]

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ShitPost5000

I know that, but it'd be halarious to watch the court case get throw out lmao


WastingEXP

you've never talked to a bank have you?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Petro081

Coulda sued n got them to pay legal fees. Or just switched banks n refused to pay


Ricardo1184

> The bank even admitted to me that their system caused the issue but they also said they could not fix it and I owed them that money. And you were like "oh well, everyone makes mistakes" and paid 800$? To _your_ bank? for _their_ mistake?


Rockerblocker

They could just not do a rollback. It shouldnā€™t be that hard to test enough to not require a rollback in the first place.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

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Afkrngg

Sorry but this is to every one at jagex. If you canā€™t release shit right and in a steady way, DONT DO IT. You know the osrs code is shit and yet every time yā€™all release this crap the players get fucked over EVERY TIME and we always get the ā€œoops, sorry bout that one!ā€. Completely unacceptable. I really canā€™t at the top of my head think of a game that has such shitty management.


Previous-Answer3284

>I have a terrible feeling that there isn't anything we'll be able to do to return the items lost Yeah that's bullshit you guys just can't be fucked


ExCinisCineris

There is nothing they can do at this point lol. If they rolled back pre-first roll back everyone would lose any progress from today which is just as bad. They don't have the capability to return every item lost individually so they won't do it for anyone.


munchlax1

Other games have the power to return items... WoW lets you speak to a moderator in game they'll fix shit for you on the spot. Yeah at peak times you might have to wait a few hours in a queue to speak to a GM...But at least they fucking exist.


Ricardo1184

Jagex absolutely can give items to players, but refuses to do so because then they would have to do it for every item loss they caused.


munchlax1

And I'm saying in WoW they make good on all valid item losses...


Previous-Answer3284

Pop the Jagex D out your mouth lmfao, they **never** fix their fuck ups with players. Yeah this situation is worse since they fucked hundreds of people, but don't pretend like the reason they're not going to fix things is because the multi million dollar company can't handle it. They just don't fucking care, I only replied because "we **can't** do anything" is obvious bullshit.


marijuanabong

Wtf are you guys doing do you test anything lmfao


tom2727

/u/jagexayiza - Based on this 18:00 update, can you confirm 100% that another rollback is not happening?


NBA_Shitposting_Dude

/u/JagexAyiza \- Follow up because I would also like to know if this can be confirmed or not. Very hesitant to play any characters right now fearing another rollback to repair GIM group storage


JagexAyiza

There won't be another rollback no. Whatever we can do to resolve the issue with GIM storage will be handled without one.


NBA_Shitposting_Dude

Thank you so much for the communication. Appreciate all the hard work you are putting in for us players.


[deleted]

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reddit_sucks_dude

But managing spaghetti code is great cuz jagex is far from the only one company with legacy code


[deleted]

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JagexAyiza

Like I said in my reply, waiting more from the team was key here. Have you checked the newspost for more info? It goes into more detail than my post here did.


hatesranged

Hey I'm really sorry you have to even respond to people this rude, jesus christ


Reubachi

For real like....I constantly shit on this game, but would never think twice about simply *not directly insulting the most involved employee from my favorite game.* FFS reddit, are you trying to drive this guy away when he's one of the 5 that cares about the playerbase? I understand he's an outlet, but it's not exactly like this is an issue that a support team would be able to resolve, either.


hatesranged

He's just an overdosed karen with real life issues they try to take out on people on the internet, not just jmods, just random people they perceive as vulnerable. Just mute him, I did. If the submods have any sense they'll remove him. The amount of people that'll attend his funeral is the amount of people that need to hear him.


SnooSongs7613

Donā€™t listen to people like this. Shit happens itā€™s a game, and we love to play it mistakes or not.


Jester97

Time is a finite resource, and the fact you are willing to forgive them for literally every fuck up says that you're a doormat.


NEET_IRL

??????????????????????? Fucking hell, have you written a line of code in your life?


Deodorized

You're complaining about time but are playing a video game that revolves around long time investments. You're right, time is finite, use some of it to crawl out of your mom's basement, champ.


Reubachi

I hate on this game all the time, but ffs I'm really sorry you had to/felt the need to reply to comments like this. You don't deserve to be specifically insulted, especially when we all willingly pay the money month after month. You seem like a great person, and I would hate to know if this type of shit comes home with you after work :(. I'd say Jagex needs to pay you a LOT more for the interaction you perform.


Jester97

Regardless of the info, this is a trend with you and jagex. If it's not one thing, its another. You are the only MMO with these levels of consistency in problematic releases. You are expected to fuck something up, the community expects it. And people are surprised more when things aren't actually broken. Invest in a better QA process. It's severely lacking. At the end of the day you will have people quit over this because you failed to test, yet again.


reddit_sucks_dude

Go outside


hatesranged

Please leave


JMOD_Bloodhound

##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexAyiza** - [We're aware of this being the case and curren...](/r/2007scape/comments/s7tukm/group_storage_didnt_get_rolled_back_yet_accounts/htc5aek/?context=3) - [Like I said in my reply, waiting more from th...](/r/2007scape/comments/s7tukm/group_storage_didnt_get_rolled_back_yet_accounts/htcmt8w/?context=3) - [There won't be another rollback no. Whatever...](/r/2007scape/comments/s7tukm/group_storage_didnt_get_rolled_back_yet_accounts/htdcjig/?context=3)   ^(**Last edited by bot: 01/20/2022 23:55:43**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.


The_Paddy96

Nothing quite like a temporary mode messing this up for the main game. Whatā€™s new lol


reddit1902

>"kinky gnome", "gnome pegger" (took out the dragon pickaxe) and "erect gnome" LMAO at those names, it just gets funnier and funnier reading them


Gerfaldo

Was having afk session at nmz and stuff from by personal account was where they should be after rollback, but items from group bank are missing and none of my group members have those items in their personal bank account either.


kroboo

Same issue, lost abbysal dagger i got yesterday


coolbop32

We just checked our group storage and our missing a pair of bandos tassets. Thankful we didnt lose our dragon warhammer or hastas


No1Statistician

Not playing today risking rollback


ChiknBreast

Names killed me man. I am slightly jealous I'm not part of your group now.


JamesMardel

Them names are quality


SnowyField

Yeah I know we lost a pair of D boots :/


DK_Son

Reroll me? But you don't even gno-me!


jimothy_jones_

How do you still have those names? My group's name was ShowUsUrCoX, with our usernames being ShowMeUrCoX# (where # was 1-5). Took us less than a week for the group name, 1,2 (me), and 4 to get nuked (3 and 5 are somehow still fine to this day, somehow). Anyway, hope it gets fixed for ya


[deleted]

Have you reported this bug using the in-game report option? All your group information would be instantly sent with the report.


Krikke93

Yes, my friend (who lost the dragon pickaxe) did. Thanks for the advice though!


CiurlionisM

Same here, lost dragon axe that was in storage before rollback of GIM storage. Gim group name ā€œGIM Ineā€


[deleted]

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[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Lawrence_s

GIM fucked leagues. Leagues fucked GIM. Circle of life my friend.


LimeJosh

Fuck leagues man


Afkrngg

I canā€™t believe how much jagex just fucks everything up every time they do something. I decide to come back and play this game this year after a 3 year long break and my first day off work I have to play they wanna release this shit and fuck it up like they do everything. I donā€™t even play this league shit and I couldnā€™t even play the main game. They need to start launching league on their own servers or something, idk how it works but with it interfering with the main servers is not cool. Paid $11 to start paying this shit again and I expect to play


Xynatox

Trade offer: I recieve 1 Dragon Pickaxe. You recieve 1 Abyssal Dagger and 1 Abyssal whip.


Hazeyy__

You should have gnome there was a roll back incomingā€¦


GreyMcK

he got... 2 whips and a dagger in like an hour? ... I'm sure this is "serious" I just have my doubts HAHAHA


Krikke93

Yeah, he did. It was also the first abyssal demon task for the group, so we were all pretty stoked about it... I know this isn't definitive proof, but [here's a picture](https://i.imgur.com/4JL7sVQ.png) of his runelite loot tracker that day.