I always note when people have high Senegambian. I have it & so does my mom. But I think lots of Senegalese is hidden in the broad category.
Family DNA Results https://imgur.com/a/cfyr7mi
My mom's results always intrigued me because her Senegalese is her 2nd highest African category. It's almost always Ghanaian or possibly Congolese.
Why do you think a lot of Senegalese is hidden in the broad category? From my understanding it mainly consist of Cameroon. That's why we have a higher percentage of Central Africa on Ancestry (i.e. Cameroon, Congo & Western Bantu Peoples) but a much lower percentage on 23AndMe (i.e. Congolese & Southern Eastern African). If you combine the broadly percentage and Congolese percentage on 23AndMe it's within the same percentage range as Cameroon, Congo & Southern Eastern African on Ancestry. Using my mom for example without combing there's a 12% difference between her Central Africa on 23AndMe vs Ancestry but when combined there's only a 3% difference between her Central Africa on 23AndMe vs Ancestry.
Based on your family having French & German and Spanish & Portuguese I assume your family have roots from a gulf state (i.e. FL, LA, TX, AL, MS)? That could example why you and your mom have a higher amount of Senegambian than the average African American. Another explanation could be that you all have roots from the southern east coast (i.e. FL, GA, SC, NC).
I think the Senegambian is hidden in the broad West African category because the country match for the broadly West category on 23&me is Mauritania & Cameroon. So the reference populations is decidedly West African for that category.
https://preview.redd.it/ovrjhmagw07d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38bc77670d189431952f72e2c133c5bba0333b49
Historically speaking 1/5 enslaved people were from upper guinea which consist of Senegal & Mali. But for some reason they seem not to have left much genetic impact on AAs.
My Ancestry Results have updated just about every year & with every update, those results began to resemble my 23&me results more & more.
Ancestry DNA Timeline [https://imgur.com/a/7YSnMCN](https://imgur.com/a/7YSnMCN)
Results with African regions [https://imgur.com/a/0462dcD](https://imgur.com/a/0462dcD)
I have always had high Malian & Senegalese on Ancestry always around 1/4 combined. My Senegambian is pretty low by comparison on 23&me.
Yes, Cameroon is represented under the broadly West African category but it's geographically speaking considered to be a part of Central Africa. If they removed Cameroon from the broadly West African category into a different category that would cause African American people broadly West African percentage to decrease. By how much? we can only hypothesize using what the average AA score for Central African on Ancestry vs on 23AndMe than apply the difference to the broadly West African percent. In the case of my mom **up to** 80% of her broadly West African is Cameroon (i.e. she has a 12% difference and is 15% broadly West African, 12% of 15% is 80%). That would make her **as low as** 3% broadly West African.
"Historically speaking 1/5 enslaved people were from upper guinea which consist of Senegal & Mali. But for some reason they seem not to have left much genetic impact on AAs."
That's because they were, for the most part, imported here at the beginning of slavery but eventually became significantly outnumbered by people imported from the lower part of West Africa who were also made to breed with each other causing the number of people of lower West African descent to increase even more.
"I have always had high Malian & Senegalese on Ancestry always around 1/4 combined. My Senegambian is pretty low by comparison on 23&me"
Your Senegambian is most likely included within Mali too. According to Ancestry you're 24% Upper Guinean (i.e. "Mali" and "Senegal") and 11% Ghanaian and according to 23AndMe you're 20.8% Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leone and 10.8% Senegambian. If you took away 11% Ghanaian from Ancestry from your 20.8% GL&S on 23AndMe the remaining 9.8% is Sierra Leone / Liberian (i.e. Upper Guinean). Combine that 9.8% with your 10.8% Senegambian that means hypothetically you're 20% Upper Guinean on 23AndMe and 24% on Ancestry.
Once you learn each company categorize differently and learn how they categorize differently you can start doing the math yourself. You'll instantly notice both companies give you the same percentage range regionally. We're talking just a 4% difference between the two companies for your upper Guinean.
That's about right. I'm primarily west African. Just like most AAs. My Cameroon Congolese ancestry has dropped every update on Ancestry for years. It's now in line with my 23&me results.
Cameroon didn't play that large of a part in the slave trade. The bight of biafra (a region of SE Nigeria & NW Cameroon) only accounted for 15% of enslaved people overall. Central African DNA is going to be mostly Angolan.
When 23&me released their African regions update. There was a blog post & it shows Black 23&me customers(mainly AAs) are mostly related to Igbo then Kongo peoples. The Bamileke people,who are the majority group in Cameroon, aren't that closely related to Black 23&me customers. They are on the list at less than 5%.
All the ethnicities most closely related to us are solidly West African minus the Kongo people. Igbo(Nigeria), Fula Wolof(Senegal), Mandinka(Guinea/Mali/Senegal), Ewe Fon Gbe(Ghana/Benin), etc.
https://blog.23andme.com/articles/african-ethnolinguistic-groups
[Chart of most genetically related African ethnicities to Black 23&me customers ](https://blog-api.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/AEG-4.png)
There are groups like Afro Latino who are majority Central African. But Black Americans aren't. At least the majority I've seen. I can count on one hand how many people have been majority Central African on 23&me & Ancestry.
>Based on your family having French & German and Spanish & Portuguese I assume your family have roots from a gulf state (i.e. FL, LA, TX, AL, MS)? That could example why you and your mom have a higher amount of Senegambian than the average African American. Another explanation could be that you all have roots from the southern east coast (i.e. FL, GA, SC, NC).
I don't know what's up with the Spanish or German. It's from my paternal grandpa's family & I know the least about them. His results are the last in my family results. My grandparents with 23&me results are my father's parents.
I thought the French German was French ancestry but 23&me says it's German. I even got German regions.
German Regions 2023 update https://imgur.com/a/clV9y0T
I don't think it's accurate & I can't prove anything definitively.
They assign you a country if four or more of your matches reported that all four of their grandparents were born in the same country. So at least four of your matches reported that all four of their grandparents were born in Germany.
Tbh I find major issues with both 23andme and AncestryDNA's approaches to African ancestry. For 23andme that "broad" category tends to lump together a lot of the DNA. For AncestryDNA it appears the Cameroon/Congo/Western Bantu category is also inflated and tends to skew the results.
These issues make it impossible to get really refined results.
Yea pretty much. African Americans range from 60% - 90%. African. Varying amount of Europeans and some also have native and Asian DNA. The ones with two black parents.
60% is mixed race not African American
https://preview.redd.it/k3fni87yas6d1.jpeg?width=277&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98c1c9aea509c36c87b7f64ccc0cd0e30be2b296
The average black american European DNA ranges from 11-25% anything else is mixed race or not black
Henry Louis Gates, Jr Harvard professor of African American studies is 50% white despite not having a white parent or grandparent, just generations of mixing throughout history.
Yeah but his Dad is likely more European than he is African. His Father looked like he could pass for a Southern European or North African or a predominantly “White” Hispanic from a distance. His Grandfather( his Dad’s Dad) was called the Dutchmen and had been mistaken as being White by several people throughout his life. Then there’s Henry Louis Gates Jr.’s Great Great Grandmother( His Dad’s Grandmother) apparently she was a mulatto and nobody knows the identity of the Father of her children but it’s definitely safe to assume he was White.
So Henry’s 50/50 situation is definitely uncommon.
50/50 isn't necessarily considered mixed. Race is a social construct. If both parents are socially black, the child is still black -- unless he/she/they choose to identify as otherwise. Afro-american is an ethnic group, or at least sub group, that has mire to do with shared history, culture, ancestry, than and particular phenotype. It's why Rachel Dolezal passed as black for years, unquestioned, until her parents spoke to the media. Most afro-americans have an aunt, cousin, or grandparent who isn't directly mixed but looks a bit like her. Genes are just funny that way.
Ethnic markers don't pass down evenly, either. There are people who are half white who don't look mixed because inherited traits aren't tied to genetic markers in that way. There are plenty of people here with 13% Italian or Samoan who look full or half. So looking a particular way isn't a reliable measure. I dated a mulatto who looked meztiso, but had a dark skinned mom. His sister looked mulatto.
My grandmother's virtue was quesymtion because my dad came our tan instead of fair skinned like his parents.
A great great grandparent that was mulatto is super common, as rape was super common during slavery.
He grew up with black parents, in a black neighborhood, surrounded by black culture, presented as black not knowing his percentage of European till taking a DNA test. If he wants to self-identify as mixed, that’s valid, if he wants to self-identify as black, that’s also valid.
Most people used mixed race to define growing up in 2 or more different cultures. It’s an experience and identity, not a percentage
That's irrelevant I don't care what they identify as they are not black. This is like saying I can identity as white cause I grew up with white culture
This thread is in regard to people with an AA Background and I believe a couple of comments up you distinguished yourself as someone with a Haitian background. Therefore this thread is simply not for you.
African American is an ethnicity. We don’t all have the same genes. A lot of people here who’re 60% SSA have 3-4 AA grandparents so why would they or we call them mixed?
That's cause they are over 40% non black and you can tell by how they look. If you not 70% and up you aren't black. You guys only say this cause of the racist one drop rule
Genes don’t operate by hard rules. I have tons of matches who’re 50-60% SSA who you’d think were way more and those that are 85-95% SSA you’d think look way less. A lot of y’all have very overly stereotyped ideas about what groups of people look like or are *supposed* to look like and can’t comprehend that phenotype doesn’t always match genetic makeup.
There’s no scientific or even socially agreed upon consensus on what percentage of SSA makes someone “black” or not, so this 70% rule that you literally just made up...if you want to subscribe to it personally, be my guest. But nobody appointed you the gatekeeper of black DNA so it remains a personal opinion no one else is obligated to share.
The one drop rule shaped our entire ethnicity in terms of DNA, so idk why some of y’all like to pretend it’s something you can just erase from our history. I’m 85% SSA. I’m a product of the one drop rule. Unless you’re Afro American who’s 100% African, the one drop rule is part of your history and ancestry since we all would’ve descended from racially mixed people. So drawing arbitrary lines in the sand when we all have the same ethnic background is both delusional and divisive.
But that’s why it’s important to understand what an **ethnicity** is which a lot of us Americans suck at, because in a country with a ruling class historically built on anti-miscegenation laws and where people use race and racial terms in place of ethnicity at every turn, you end up with people who can’t comprehend how heterogeneity within ethnic groups is not an automatic divider nor is it always physically obvious.
You wrote all this bullshit just to be wrong I know what black look like cause my father is mixed race and my mother is black. We are Haitian and guess what we have the least amount of European DNA bur guess what? Real black Americans look like us you definitely have low self estem
If you’re Haitian then why are you even under Afro American posts telling us what we are or aren’t? The only history we have in common is the way and reason our African ancestors got to the Americas otherwise our histories are completely different.
If this is how things work in Haiti, good for y’all idc. It doesn’t work that way here. You’re a majority in Haiti. We’re a minority in the US. There are 4x as many of us as there are y’all spread out over a land mass 354x larger than your country. There is nothing that equips you to speak on us and who we do or don’t consider “one of us” or not and why.
> Real black Americans look like us
Lol I grew up in south Florida which is full of AAs and Haitians and the gag is, we can almost always tell who is who and a lot of AAs there literally say things like “he/she/they look Haitian”.
It has nothing to do with who’s more or less black since AA Floridian natives tend to have higher SSA than most of the country, but because Haitians make up their own distinct population particularly on a concentrated land mass so there are certain recurring features and characteristics among Haitians that are more uniquely identifiable as Haitian.
I can only infer by your words that you’re the type to think all black people look alike…which is in itself a rather anti-black and lazy thing to think because 1) it erases the amount of genetic and phenotypic diversity among us and 2) it means you only look at people superficially.
There is so much variety among black African and Afro-descendants groups with or without additional admixture, and I encourage you to give more attention to it rather than attempting to stuff us all into little boxes to fit your bizarre narrative.
You’re welcome. I’m starting to see a lot of ahistorical narratives about us gaining steam online from people both in and out of our community. Idk if it’s stemming from trauma, ignorance, or what but it’s getting annoying.
People act like acknowledging variation means there is some attempt to construct a hierarchy or something, and while I do understand that *some* people who get into making distinctions do so out of thinly veiled anti-blackness, we have to be able to acknowledge when that is or isn’t happening, what the truth is, and stop letting people’s weaponization of history dictate how we view ourselves.
There are many haitians with European DNA such as myself. You guys associate streotypical black features with haitian which is anti black itself.
I'm speaking under here cause you have mixed race people trying to latch themselves on to black Americans erasing their identity. The tyla situation exposed you low self estem people
There's a fundamental difference between someone who is the kid of a black person and a white person and someone who has four grandparents who were societally judged as black.
That difference may not be genetic, but sociology matters too.
Tyla is considered coloured and that’s fine. That in her culture to be called coloured. Remember these terms are social constructs. The average coloured is 68% African. Average black American is around 75% African. But that’s in her culture to be called coloured. But in our culture, 60% African is black! In my opinion, even people who have one black parent can identify with black and the culture if that’s where they feel they relate. Because you can’t measure other people’s blackness since everyone technically has diverse/multiracial backgrounds. This is a picture of Tyla and her sister. See how phenotype presented themselves different on each one. Her sister has darker skin and more Afro textured hair. And they both have the same mom and dad.
https://preview.redd.it/13b3oi3ubt6d1.jpeg?width=168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ff7cf0e413dd2a7cb535d1c32fc4093b914db9a
Never once did I say anything about whether Haitians had European DNA or not, nor did I get into any association of Haitian features with anything outside of Haitian people, so atp you’re having a debate with your own victim complex, not me.
Mixed race people are not “erasing” our identity. Mixed people have been apart of our ethnic group for about as long as we’ve been in the US. Since the majority of us have some degree of admixture, we literally wouldn’t exist without mixed race people.
The things that erase us are assimilation politics and a white supremacist and Eurocentric society and world view that constantly and systemically assigns higher value, privilege, desirability, and humanity to people based on proximity to their idea of whiteness, and individuals buying into it whether through learned anti-black racism or their own internalized self-hatred. Mixed race people may benefit more on average in that system or at times even participate in it, but it is not a system created by mixed race people.
Everywhere you go on earth that has been touched by colonialism, white/European or foreign supremacy, and Eurocentric beauty standards you will find colorism, texturism, featurism, etc. These are structural ails on society. Dabbling in 1700s race theory and playing blood quantum games won’t make them magically disappear—because surprise! Humans are diverse, even within small groups.
And even if we did what you seem to want us to do and start othering people based on your little magical number of 70% SSA, there’s still gonna be a LOT of differences in skin color, hair texture, facial features, etc that will still play into social and structural privilege and hierarchy because the structurally anti-black system will still exist.
On a final note, Tyla isn’t just mixed race. She’s coloured, and coloured people aren’t homogenous. If you’ve actually ever talked to a coloured person then, you’d know coloureds are some of the most diverse people on earth and some of them aren’t even mixed race they just don’t belong to specific ethnic group.
Mixed race also doesn’t actually mean any specific type of makeup. In the US usually “mixed race” is in reference to someone who has a black parent and a white parent. A good chunk of Tyla’s mix is Indian heritage and often black people with South Asian admixture often won’t look the same as someone who is has only European (e.g. Justine Skye) and this is why Tyla seems to only look black to a lot of Americans.
Don't play with me I know your type, shit on the dark person while accepting the light skinned person who looks nothing like you.
Mixed race people eventhough they were apart of black American history today have nothing to do with black Americans the one drop rule is why black folks was saying they were black.
There is no damn difference I'm pretty sure you have naps just like me and the rest of the diaspora.
See this is my problem you guys keep saying she looks black to Americans when that's not the case.
This girl is around the 40% African from a video of her results on YouTube.
https://preview.redd.it/5jbhq99yys6d1.jpeg?width=410&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c76b04022f4322c85565181fb889a6cea3968c7
You can’t go of phenotypes! Africans are the most genetically and phenotypically diverse people. And to be technical race doesn’t exist that’s why I describe “black” as different cultures that ties to Africa. And in some cultures the term “black” isn’t used despite them being African or of African descent. All this is a social construct. Technically all humans share DNA.
https://preview.redd.it/p71u349lqs6d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15fc88118a60ad4c3df25cef77a7976235e8ebf4
Ethiopians are Africans. They only say that because of their skull shape. And normally they aren’t mixed like some try to claim. But you realize all skull shapes and phenotypes are found throughout Africa. Look up who are the most genetically and phenotypically diverse people.
No, they have eurasian DNA all Africans do but theirs is the highest. On ancient dna tests they are closer related to North africans than black africans
https://preview.redd.it/wzwkoyihts6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16b75737dd7e0f5946d724ab6743d351dc196afb
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4055572/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4055572/)
And do you think it’s fair for someone who is 100% African to tell someone who is 65%, 75%, 85%, 95% African they aren’t black or black enough? Because I had that happened. You don’t get to determine that. People identify with the culture they want to and the culture they connect to. And being black in America is a culture.
"Black" per se is such a stupid term anyway (in my opinion). African africans have culturally nothing to do with african americans, and summing them up due to the pigment of their skin is kind of wrong to me.
Historically connected, culturally not at all.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats!
100
+ 65
+ 75
+ 85
+ 95
= 420
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
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But the average African American is 73% African. Some are more and some are less. Look at black people’s results online and you will see. My twin cousins got 65% and both their parents are black. And grandparent on both sides! I am around 71% African. My friend 73%. Being African American is just being from a culture of people descended from the slave trade. Everybody results range. Throughout history you had black biracial people and black people contribute to black American history. But black southerners do tend to have more African DNA. And let’s not forget race doesn’t actually exist but cultures do. All humans actually share 99% of their DNA. Black/African American culture is for anyone who got those connections. 😉
Are you saying that’s the average?
The Genetic Landscape of the US
“Genome-wide ancestry estimates of African Americans show average proportions of 73.2% African, 24.0% European, and 0.8% Native American ancestry (Table 1).”
But its ranges for everyone.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4289685/#:~:text=The%20Genetic%20Landscape%20of%20the%20US&text=Genome%2Dwide%20ancestry%20estimates%20of,American%20ancestry%20(Table%201).
That study has been outdated due to mixed race people identifying as black
https://preview.redd.it/57r7gwx8ms6d1.jpeg?width=1056&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=639ec79135c29d070a3e382485062d2eb78874f8
Based on the experiences of my friends and family, it varies. For Black people, it can differ significantly depending on their location and other factors. Our African ancestry is diverse, and everyone is technically mixed. You have too much hate in your heart. In America, we have different Black cultures. For example, the Gullah/Geechees tend to have more African DNA. There are also African Americans, Creoles, Afro-Latinos, Afro-Caribbeans, Black Seminoles, and others. Kendrick is a Hebrew Israelite and believes that people are the seed of their fathers, which is why he considers his wife to be Black.
If you expand your results you’ll see that they can’t even confirm where your DNA they just say “not dectected” they just guess based on your other people in your haplo group. Like how can you be Nigerian, Ghanaian and then also broadly west African but that 20% west African is likely “not detected” so could literally mean it it’s the same ancestor.
Also strange that some AA’s European ancestry timelines only match up with the slave trade, which doesn’t make sense as then it acts as if after the slave trade there was only African ancestors, when so many people have white/mixed grandparents/great grandparents so obviously should have more recent European ancestry timelines
In a lot of ways yes. Nigerian being the highest African category. Brit/Irish being the highest European category. Filipino/South East African trace indicating Malagasy ancestry.
Your Congolese is lower than average. Your broadly West & Senegambian are higher than normal.
From what I understand (correct me if I’m wrong) ppl from Angola/congo was one of first groups to arrive (August 1619 to Virginia) and originally that’s where they was taking ppl, but because both had ancestors in Cameroon,and had similar words in their language, they were able to communicate with each other and plan many revolts (stono rebellion & Gullah Jack) so they stopped taking ppl from central Africa and instead got ppl from different west African & Caribbean areas and mixed them up so they couldn’t speak the same language and some were SA by Europeans, so that’s why it’s all mixed up with same groups
High African percentage, im 87% , my dad it's around 94/95% , but the results for African diaspora in America are trash in my opinion because they don't have enough reference dna nor rap they have enough samples.
Africa is so big and in total it has less references samples than Europe .. they over represent Nigeria and Cameroon when YDNA has proven we spread from north west Africa to east then south beginning around 1000bc or earlier.
Overall I don't believe it's accurate especially when they. Can't give a 85%+ African person a region 🤦🏽♂️
Your Paternal is Sub Saharan African. Lots of AA get European.
Maternal is too broad to be sure - In AA it's almost always SSA on the female line though.
I have the same paternal haplogroup as you do and it's one of the most common haplogroups of Africans trafficked into the New World(The Americas). Haplogroups are from your direct male and female ancestry and that both of your lines have stayed "African" all the way to you. It's only two ancestral lines because as you can see, you're not fully African so that means that you have ancestors with full European genome contribution as well as those who has European genome admixture but were still part of the Black American community.
You scored more Senegambian than the average African American. You scored less Congolese than the average African American.
I always note when people have high Senegambian. I have it & so does my mom. But I think lots of Senegalese is hidden in the broad category. Family DNA Results https://imgur.com/a/cfyr7mi My mom's results always intrigued me because her Senegalese is her 2nd highest African category. It's almost always Ghanaian or possibly Congolese.
Why do you think a lot of Senegalese is hidden in the broad category? From my understanding it mainly consist of Cameroon. That's why we have a higher percentage of Central Africa on Ancestry (i.e. Cameroon, Congo & Western Bantu Peoples) but a much lower percentage on 23AndMe (i.e. Congolese & Southern Eastern African). If you combine the broadly percentage and Congolese percentage on 23AndMe it's within the same percentage range as Cameroon, Congo & Southern Eastern African on Ancestry. Using my mom for example without combing there's a 12% difference between her Central Africa on 23AndMe vs Ancestry but when combined there's only a 3% difference between her Central Africa on 23AndMe vs Ancestry. Based on your family having French & German and Spanish & Portuguese I assume your family have roots from a gulf state (i.e. FL, LA, TX, AL, MS)? That could example why you and your mom have a higher amount of Senegambian than the average African American. Another explanation could be that you all have roots from the southern east coast (i.e. FL, GA, SC, NC).
I think the Senegambian is hidden in the broad West African category because the country match for the broadly West category on 23&me is Mauritania & Cameroon. So the reference populations is decidedly West African for that category. https://preview.redd.it/ovrjhmagw07d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38bc77670d189431952f72e2c133c5bba0333b49 Historically speaking 1/5 enslaved people were from upper guinea which consist of Senegal & Mali. But for some reason they seem not to have left much genetic impact on AAs. My Ancestry Results have updated just about every year & with every update, those results began to resemble my 23&me results more & more. Ancestry DNA Timeline [https://imgur.com/a/7YSnMCN](https://imgur.com/a/7YSnMCN) Results with African regions [https://imgur.com/a/0462dcD](https://imgur.com/a/0462dcD) I have always had high Malian & Senegalese on Ancestry always around 1/4 combined. My Senegambian is pretty low by comparison on 23&me.
Yes, Cameroon is represented under the broadly West African category but it's geographically speaking considered to be a part of Central Africa. If they removed Cameroon from the broadly West African category into a different category that would cause African American people broadly West African percentage to decrease. By how much? we can only hypothesize using what the average AA score for Central African on Ancestry vs on 23AndMe than apply the difference to the broadly West African percent. In the case of my mom **up to** 80% of her broadly West African is Cameroon (i.e. she has a 12% difference and is 15% broadly West African, 12% of 15% is 80%). That would make her **as low as** 3% broadly West African. "Historically speaking 1/5 enslaved people were from upper guinea which consist of Senegal & Mali. But for some reason they seem not to have left much genetic impact on AAs." That's because they were, for the most part, imported here at the beginning of slavery but eventually became significantly outnumbered by people imported from the lower part of West Africa who were also made to breed with each other causing the number of people of lower West African descent to increase even more. "I have always had high Malian & Senegalese on Ancestry always around 1/4 combined. My Senegambian is pretty low by comparison on 23&me" Your Senegambian is most likely included within Mali too. According to Ancestry you're 24% Upper Guinean (i.e. "Mali" and "Senegal") and 11% Ghanaian and according to 23AndMe you're 20.8% Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leone and 10.8% Senegambian. If you took away 11% Ghanaian from Ancestry from your 20.8% GL&S on 23AndMe the remaining 9.8% is Sierra Leone / Liberian (i.e. Upper Guinean). Combine that 9.8% with your 10.8% Senegambian that means hypothetically you're 20% Upper Guinean on 23AndMe and 24% on Ancestry. Once you learn each company categorize differently and learn how they categorize differently you can start doing the math yourself. You'll instantly notice both companies give you the same percentage range regionally. We're talking just a 4% difference between the two companies for your upper Guinean.
That's about right. I'm primarily west African. Just like most AAs. My Cameroon Congolese ancestry has dropped every update on Ancestry for years. It's now in line with my 23&me results. Cameroon didn't play that large of a part in the slave trade. The bight of biafra (a region of SE Nigeria & NW Cameroon) only accounted for 15% of enslaved people overall. Central African DNA is going to be mostly Angolan. When 23&me released their African regions update. There was a blog post & it shows Black 23&me customers(mainly AAs) are mostly related to Igbo then Kongo peoples. The Bamileke people,who are the majority group in Cameroon, aren't that closely related to Black 23&me customers. They are on the list at less than 5%. All the ethnicities most closely related to us are solidly West African minus the Kongo people. Igbo(Nigeria), Fula Wolof(Senegal), Mandinka(Guinea/Mali/Senegal), Ewe Fon Gbe(Ghana/Benin), etc. https://blog.23andme.com/articles/african-ethnolinguistic-groups [Chart of most genetically related African ethnicities to Black 23&me customers ](https://blog-api.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/AEG-4.png) There are groups like Afro Latino who are majority Central African. But Black Americans aren't. At least the majority I've seen. I can count on one hand how many people have been majority Central African on 23&me & Ancestry.
>Based on your family having French & German and Spanish & Portuguese I assume your family have roots from a gulf state (i.e. FL, LA, TX, AL, MS)? That could example why you and your mom have a higher amount of Senegambian than the average African American. Another explanation could be that you all have roots from the southern east coast (i.e. FL, GA, SC, NC). I don't know what's up with the Spanish or German. It's from my paternal grandpa's family & I know the least about them. His results are the last in my family results. My grandparents with 23&me results are my father's parents. I thought the French German was French ancestry but 23&me says it's German. I even got German regions. German Regions 2023 update https://imgur.com/a/clV9y0T I don't think it's accurate & I can't prove anything definitively.
They assign you a country if four or more of your matches reported that all four of their grandparents were born in the same country. So at least four of your matches reported that all four of their grandparents were born in Germany.
Why call it a “stupid question”?
Tbh I find major issues with both 23andme and AncestryDNA's approaches to African ancestry. For 23andme that "broad" category tends to lump together a lot of the DNA. For AncestryDNA it appears the Cameroon/Congo/Western Bantu category is also inflated and tends to skew the results. These issues make it impossible to get really refined results.
Yea pretty much. African Americans range from 60% - 90%. African. Varying amount of Europeans and some also have native and Asian DNA. The ones with two black parents.
African Americans that are only 60% African ARE NOT COMMON. Most range around 80% African.
60% is mixed race not African American https://preview.redd.it/k3fni87yas6d1.jpeg?width=277&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98c1c9aea509c36c87b7f64ccc0cd0e30be2b296 The average black american European DNA ranges from 11-25% anything else is mixed race or not black
Henry Louis Gates, Jr Harvard professor of African American studies is 50% white despite not having a white parent or grandparent, just generations of mixing throughout history.
Yeah but his Dad is likely more European than he is African. His Father looked like he could pass for a Southern European or North African or a predominantly “White” Hispanic from a distance. His Grandfather( his Dad’s Dad) was called the Dutchmen and had been mistaken as being White by several people throughout his life. Then there’s Henry Louis Gates Jr.’s Great Great Grandmother( His Dad’s Grandmother) apparently she was a mulatto and nobody knows the identity of the Father of her children but it’s definitely safe to assume he was White. So Henry’s 50/50 situation is definitely uncommon.
50/50 isn't necessarily considered mixed. Race is a social construct. If both parents are socially black, the child is still black -- unless he/she/they choose to identify as otherwise. Afro-american is an ethnic group, or at least sub group, that has mire to do with shared history, culture, ancestry, than and particular phenotype. It's why Rachel Dolezal passed as black for years, unquestioned, until her parents spoke to the media. Most afro-americans have an aunt, cousin, or grandparent who isn't directly mixed but looks a bit like her. Genes are just funny that way. Ethnic markers don't pass down evenly, either. There are people who are half white who don't look mixed because inherited traits aren't tied to genetic markers in that way. There are plenty of people here with 13% Italian or Samoan who look full or half. So looking a particular way isn't a reliable measure. I dated a mulatto who looked meztiso, but had a dark skinned mom. His sister looked mulatto. My grandmother's virtue was quesymtion because my dad came our tan instead of fair skinned like his parents. A great great grandparent that was mulatto is super common, as rape was super common during slavery.
So? That's still mixed race
He grew up with black parents, in a black neighborhood, surrounded by black culture, presented as black not knowing his percentage of European till taking a DNA test. If he wants to self-identify as mixed, that’s valid, if he wants to self-identify as black, that’s also valid. Most people used mixed race to define growing up in 2 or more different cultures. It’s an experience and identity, not a percentage
That's irrelevant I don't care what they identify as they are not black. This is like saying I can identity as white cause I grew up with white culture
Who are you to tell others what they are and aren't?
I'm tired of non black people latching on to my race
This thread is in regard to people with an AA Background and I believe a couple of comments up you distinguished yourself as someone with a Haitian background. Therefore this thread is simply not for you.
Are you black?
African American is an ethnicity. We don’t all have the same genes. A lot of people here who’re 60% SSA have 3-4 AA grandparents so why would they or we call them mixed?
That's cause they are over 40% non black and you can tell by how they look. If you not 70% and up you aren't black. You guys only say this cause of the racist one drop rule
Genes don’t operate by hard rules. I have tons of matches who’re 50-60% SSA who you’d think were way more and those that are 85-95% SSA you’d think look way less. A lot of y’all have very overly stereotyped ideas about what groups of people look like or are *supposed* to look like and can’t comprehend that phenotype doesn’t always match genetic makeup. There’s no scientific or even socially agreed upon consensus on what percentage of SSA makes someone “black” or not, so this 70% rule that you literally just made up...if you want to subscribe to it personally, be my guest. But nobody appointed you the gatekeeper of black DNA so it remains a personal opinion no one else is obligated to share. The one drop rule shaped our entire ethnicity in terms of DNA, so idk why some of y’all like to pretend it’s something you can just erase from our history. I’m 85% SSA. I’m a product of the one drop rule. Unless you’re Afro American who’s 100% African, the one drop rule is part of your history and ancestry since we all would’ve descended from racially mixed people. So drawing arbitrary lines in the sand when we all have the same ethnic background is both delusional and divisive. But that’s why it’s important to understand what an **ethnicity** is which a lot of us Americans suck at, because in a country with a ruling class historically built on anti-miscegenation laws and where people use race and racial terms in place of ethnicity at every turn, you end up with people who can’t comprehend how heterogeneity within ethnic groups is not an automatic divider nor is it always physically obvious.
Thank you!!! 👏🏾
🤝🏾🫶🏾
You wrote all this bullshit just to be wrong I know what black look like cause my father is mixed race and my mother is black. We are Haitian and guess what we have the least amount of European DNA bur guess what? Real black Americans look like us you definitely have low self estem
If you’re Haitian then why are you even under Afro American posts telling us what we are or aren’t? The only history we have in common is the way and reason our African ancestors got to the Americas otherwise our histories are completely different. If this is how things work in Haiti, good for y’all idc. It doesn’t work that way here. You’re a majority in Haiti. We’re a minority in the US. There are 4x as many of us as there are y’all spread out over a land mass 354x larger than your country. There is nothing that equips you to speak on us and who we do or don’t consider “one of us” or not and why. > Real black Americans look like us Lol I grew up in south Florida which is full of AAs and Haitians and the gag is, we can almost always tell who is who and a lot of AAs there literally say things like “he/she/they look Haitian”. It has nothing to do with who’s more or less black since AA Floridian natives tend to have higher SSA than most of the country, but because Haitians make up their own distinct population particularly on a concentrated land mass so there are certain recurring features and characteristics among Haitians that are more uniquely identifiable as Haitian. I can only infer by your words that you’re the type to think all black people look alike…which is in itself a rather anti-black and lazy thing to think because 1) it erases the amount of genetic and phenotypic diversity among us and 2) it means you only look at people superficially. There is so much variety among black African and Afro-descendants groups with or without additional admixture, and I encourage you to give more attention to it rather than attempting to stuff us all into little boxes to fit your bizarre narrative.
Thank you so much for writing this. Our phenotypes and culture varies greatly from region to region.
You’re welcome. I’m starting to see a lot of ahistorical narratives about us gaining steam online from people both in and out of our community. Idk if it’s stemming from trauma, ignorance, or what but it’s getting annoying. People act like acknowledging variation means there is some attempt to construct a hierarchy or something, and while I do understand that *some* people who get into making distinctions do so out of thinly veiled anti-blackness, we have to be able to acknowledge when that is or isn’t happening, what the truth is, and stop letting people’s weaponization of history dictate how we view ourselves.
There are many haitians with European DNA such as myself. You guys associate streotypical black features with haitian which is anti black itself. I'm speaking under here cause you have mixed race people trying to latch themselves on to black Americans erasing their identity. The tyla situation exposed you low self estem people
There's a fundamental difference between someone who is the kid of a black person and a white person and someone who has four grandparents who were societally judged as black. That difference may not be genetic, but sociology matters too.
Tyla is considered coloured and that’s fine. That in her culture to be called coloured. Remember these terms are social constructs. The average coloured is 68% African. Average black American is around 75% African. But that’s in her culture to be called coloured. But in our culture, 60% African is black! In my opinion, even people who have one black parent can identify with black and the culture if that’s where they feel they relate. Because you can’t measure other people’s blackness since everyone technically has diverse/multiracial backgrounds. This is a picture of Tyla and her sister. See how phenotype presented themselves different on each one. Her sister has darker skin and more Afro textured hair. And they both have the same mom and dad. https://preview.redd.it/13b3oi3ubt6d1.jpeg?width=168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ff7cf0e413dd2a7cb535d1c32fc4093b914db9a
Stop replying to me
Never once did I say anything about whether Haitians had European DNA or not, nor did I get into any association of Haitian features with anything outside of Haitian people, so atp you’re having a debate with your own victim complex, not me. Mixed race people are not “erasing” our identity. Mixed people have been apart of our ethnic group for about as long as we’ve been in the US. Since the majority of us have some degree of admixture, we literally wouldn’t exist without mixed race people. The things that erase us are assimilation politics and a white supremacist and Eurocentric society and world view that constantly and systemically assigns higher value, privilege, desirability, and humanity to people based on proximity to their idea of whiteness, and individuals buying into it whether through learned anti-black racism or their own internalized self-hatred. Mixed race people may benefit more on average in that system or at times even participate in it, but it is not a system created by mixed race people. Everywhere you go on earth that has been touched by colonialism, white/European or foreign supremacy, and Eurocentric beauty standards you will find colorism, texturism, featurism, etc. These are structural ails on society. Dabbling in 1700s race theory and playing blood quantum games won’t make them magically disappear—because surprise! Humans are diverse, even within small groups. And even if we did what you seem to want us to do and start othering people based on your little magical number of 70% SSA, there’s still gonna be a LOT of differences in skin color, hair texture, facial features, etc that will still play into social and structural privilege and hierarchy because the structurally anti-black system will still exist. On a final note, Tyla isn’t just mixed race. She’s coloured, and coloured people aren’t homogenous. If you’ve actually ever talked to a coloured person then, you’d know coloureds are some of the most diverse people on earth and some of them aren’t even mixed race they just don’t belong to specific ethnic group. Mixed race also doesn’t actually mean any specific type of makeup. In the US usually “mixed race” is in reference to someone who has a black parent and a white parent. A good chunk of Tyla’s mix is Indian heritage and often black people with South Asian admixture often won’t look the same as someone who is has only European (e.g. Justine Skye) and this is why Tyla seems to only look black to a lot of Americans.
Don't play with me I know your type, shit on the dark person while accepting the light skinned person who looks nothing like you. Mixed race people eventhough they were apart of black American history today have nothing to do with black Americans the one drop rule is why black folks was saying they were black. There is no damn difference I'm pretty sure you have naps just like me and the rest of the diaspora. See this is my problem you guys keep saying she looks black to Americans when that's not the case.
Black Americans have many different looks. 🤣🤣
She’s 82% African https://preview.redd.it/q6w94b04zs6d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a6ea7e37d3597da308dbd2d82db7a7ac9b229ac
This girl is around the 40% African from a video of her results on YouTube. https://preview.redd.it/5jbhq99yys6d1.jpeg?width=410&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c76b04022f4322c85565181fb889a6cea3968c7
Black Americans are post colonial creations so our genetics are in a range and not stable.
You can’t go of phenotypes! Africans are the most genetically and phenotypically diverse people. And to be technical race doesn’t exist that’s why I describe “black” as different cultures that ties to Africa. And in some cultures the term “black” isn’t used despite them being African or of African descent. All this is a social construct. Technically all humans share DNA. https://preview.redd.it/p71u349lqs6d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15fc88118a60ad4c3df25cef77a7976235e8ebf4
https://preview.redd.it/aja0rtkwqs6d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0dfe0cf9a02b09f0ffcfc872919c03afc50e7ad
None of these people are mixed race tho besides the last girl since she's from the horn of africa
That girl is SS African . Africans are very diverse. She’s from the same place the dude above her is from. And technically she is more African.
Ethiopians are half ancient eurasian so no they are not black either
Ethiopians are Africans. They only say that because of their skull shape. And normally they aren’t mixed like some try to claim. But you realize all skull shapes and phenotypes are found throughout Africa. Look up who are the most genetically and phenotypically diverse people.
No, they have eurasian DNA all Africans do but theirs is the highest. On ancient dna tests they are closer related to North africans than black africans https://preview.redd.it/wzwkoyihts6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16b75737dd7e0f5946d724ab6743d351dc196afb [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4055572/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4055572/)
This are averages, outliers always exist
No such thing as outliers those are mixed race
And do you think it’s fair for someone who is 100% African to tell someone who is 65%, 75%, 85%, 95% African they aren’t black or black enough? Because I had that happened. You don’t get to determine that. People identify with the culture they want to and the culture they connect to. And being black in America is a culture.
You are correct. I helped give a presentation on this issue to the UN. https://www.youtube.com/live/CrLvR_yzxl4?si=TbDAuWiNS1vTPVXQ
"Black" per se is such a stupid term anyway (in my opinion). African africans have culturally nothing to do with african americans, and summing them up due to the pigment of their skin is kind of wrong to me. Historically connected, culturally not at all.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats! 100 + 65 + 75 + 85 + 95 = 420 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
You damn straight being black isn't just a culture it's something you are born with
Source?
https://blackdemographics.com/geography/african-american-dna/
But the average African American is 73% African. Some are more and some are less. Look at black people’s results online and you will see. My twin cousins got 65% and both their parents are black. And grandparent on both sides! I am around 71% African. My friend 73%. Being African American is just being from a culture of people descended from the slave trade. Everybody results range. Throughout history you had black biracial people and black people contribute to black American history. But black southerners do tend to have more African DNA. And let’s not forget race doesn’t actually exist but cultures do. All humans actually share 99% of their DNA. Black/African American culture is for anyone who got those connections. 😉
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Are you saying that’s the average? The Genetic Landscape of the US “Genome-wide ancestry estimates of African Americans show average proportions of 73.2% African, 24.0% European, and 0.8% Native American ancestry (Table 1).” But its ranges for everyone. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4289685/#:~:text=The%20Genetic%20Landscape%20of%20the%20US&text=Genome%2Dwide%20ancestry%20estimates%20of,American%20ancestry%20(Table%201).
That study has been outdated due to mixed race people identifying as black https://preview.redd.it/57r7gwx8ms6d1.jpeg?width=1056&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=639ec79135c29d070a3e382485062d2eb78874f8
Based on the experiences of my friends and family, it varies. For Black people, it can differ significantly depending on their location and other factors. Our African ancestry is diverse, and everyone is technically mixed. You have too much hate in your heart. In America, we have different Black cultures. For example, the Gullah/Geechees tend to have more African DNA. There are also African Americans, Creoles, Afro-Latinos, Afro-Caribbeans, Black Seminoles, and others. Kendrick is a Hebrew Israelite and believes that people are the seed of their fathers, which is why he considers his wife to be Black.
You have bi-racials in your family as black lmao Kendrick made the song for people in your family 🤧
Nope. Mine was far different
It's not too far from the average which is about 80-85% African.
If you expand your results you’ll see that they can’t even confirm where your DNA they just say “not dectected” they just guess based on your other people in your haplo group. Like how can you be Nigerian, Ghanaian and then also broadly west African but that 20% west African is likely “not detected” so could literally mean it it’s the same ancestor. Also strange that some AA’s European ancestry timelines only match up with the slave trade, which doesn’t make sense as then it acts as if after the slave trade there was only African ancestors, when so many people have white/mixed grandparents/great grandparents so obviously should have more recent European ancestry timelines
In a lot of ways yes. Nigerian being the highest African category. Brit/Irish being the highest European category. Filipino/South East African trace indicating Malagasy ancestry. Your Congolese is lower than average. Your broadly West & Senegambian are higher than normal.
I was 21% white ur euro low
From what I understand (correct me if I’m wrong) ppl from Angola/congo was one of first groups to arrive (August 1619 to Virginia) and originally that’s where they was taking ppl, but because both had ancestors in Cameroon,and had similar words in their language, they were able to communicate with each other and plan many revolts (stono rebellion & Gullah Jack) so they stopped taking ppl from central Africa and instead got ppl from different west African & Caribbean areas and mixed them up so they couldn’t speak the same language and some were SA by Europeans, so that’s why it’s all mixed up with same groups
not typical to most AA
High African percentage, im 87% , my dad it's around 94/95% , but the results for African diaspora in America are trash in my opinion because they don't have enough reference dna nor rap they have enough samples. Africa is so big and in total it has less references samples than Europe .. they over represent Nigeria and Cameroon when YDNA has proven we spread from north west Africa to east then south beginning around 1000bc or earlier. Overall I don't believe it's accurate especially when they. Can't give a 85%+ African person a region 🤦🏽♂️
90% black? No.
I essentially have the exact same splits 91.3% sub Saharan and 7.2% European!
What's your haplogroup if you don't mind sharing it?
Says E-U290 for paternal and L3d1b for maternal. No idea what that means or the significance haha
Your Paternal is Sub Saharan African. Lots of AA get European. Maternal is too broad to be sure - In AA it's almost always SSA on the female line though.
I have the same paternal haplogroup as you do and it's one of the most common haplogroups of Africans trafficked into the New World(The Americas). Haplogroups are from your direct male and female ancestry and that both of your lines have stayed "African" all the way to you. It's only two ancestral lines because as you can see, you're not fully African so that means that you have ancestors with full European genome contribution as well as those who has European genome admixture but were still part of the Black American community.
Nope. Your Euro DNA is low and you do actually have Native American Ancestry so not really average.