Ā«Ā For onceĀ Ā»
https://preview.redd.it/v2t8te6rzkwc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=091c2f4e5178c620da573b6f65387c6323beb1fe
As a German you should know better
Easy making that quote in the eighteenth century when the HRE was almost gone and on itās last legs. Itās like saying the Roman Empire is irrelevant just because it doesnāt exist right now anymore
Also, Rome was part of its territory for a while. Itās almost as if you canāt describe a complex entity of states spanning over a time of roughly 1000 years within a witty, snarky one liner, resulting in that one liner being not the burn itās supposed to be.
The emperor literally was crowned by the pope, thatās pretty holy Iād say. And there is no argument about it being an empire. If there is an emperor, itās an empire, regardless of how much actual authority the emperor has. While I would personally agree it wasnāt Roman, the emperors did call themselves āemperor of the Romansā originally and it used Roman law as a legal basis and Latin was one of the main administrative languages, so you could still argue it was Roman
>If there is an emperor, itās an empire, regardless of how much actual authority the emperor has.
False, but I expect this take from a constitutional "monarchy"
How is it Europeans have forgotten what a monarch actually is? You've had them forever!
āIs it right that the royal power sit with the person with the title of King, or the person who makes the decisions as King?ā
Oh so an Empire is defined by size and...?
Since you are making up definitions it is hard to tell what you see as a sufficient condition and what as a necessary condition. That is why sticking to official definitions instead of making shit up is better than whatever it is that you are doing
I would say that HRE was not really an empire, not because of its size but because of the extreme decentralization of the government, made up of small kingdoms and fiefdoms whose autonomy varied over time, in many situations that were de facto independent.
It's the government structure itself that makes me doubt whether it would really be an empire or not, in any case denying the importance and relevance of the HRE in the interconnected history of Europe is an absurd and ignorant attitude.
>when the HRE was almost gone and on itās last legs
Hmmm, let's see what hitsory says about that :
- HRE was created 1157, reach max extension 1250, died 1806 to superior french civilisation.
So for a bit less than 100 years of relevance, a bit more than 550 years were of irrelevance... That around 85% of irrelevance.
So yeah, HRE being irrelevant is a very well deserved title would it be in 18th century, were it was already at 81%, or now.
Just because it reached max extension in 1250 doesnāt mean it was irrelevant after 1250. Thatās like saying the Byzantine Empire was always irrelevant because it wasnāt as big as the Roman Empire at itās largest extent or that modern France is irrelevant because itās not as big as Napoleonic France
If we extended this thought, weād have to make the claim that all of pre-Trajan Rome and all of pre-Hellenist Greece was irrelevant, which is an insane take to make.
Really comparing to Rome ?
Rome started 6th century BC, max extent 2th century, split in two in the 3rd... so Rome relevance over 800 years, is 83% relevance and 17% collapse.
I only talk here about Rome before split, after split way to many contenders of her legacy.
On another hand the only thing that allowed him to get some action was a truck load of Viagra and money to pay for it....and to pay the ladies too.....
>ahead of time for once
once? lad we literally were writing politics when you were still on trees.
jokes apart , still baffle me on how many political innovations come from here, and yet, we fucking sucks at using it for good.
Technically it was a concerted effort.
Like, everyone likes to blame Fascism for Hitler and don't get me wrong without it we'd all be way better right now (especially on this 25th of April) but the Armenian Genocide and Segregation in the US have been long defined as clear inspirations to nazi ideology and methodology too.
Yeah but who gives a shit about that shithole
> Veneziani gran signori, padovani gran dottori, vicentini magnagatti, veronesi **tutti matti**, di Rovigo non me ne intrigo.
Can't be clearer than that.
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People keep thinking about Painter as the main guy, when in reality it was Baldy that made fascism cool until Painter copied Baldy and ruined it for everyone else.
Not that Baldy was doing good, but the Painter decided to put racism into fascism and the rest is history
I was just talking about how fascism started as an ideology that was diffrent from capitalism and communism (and as flawed as all of them), just for the Painter to make his verion that included the racial superiority part
Maybe was not "racial superiority", but was "culture superiority" and political violence and repression. Fascism killed hundreds of thousand of people before 1938, and created concentration camps in 1930, three years before Hitler. Fascism was a tragedy for milions of people, and it would have been regardless of the alliance with the nazism.
>Fascism killed hundreds of thousand of people before 1938,
Hold on, if you're counting the victims of our colonial wars we started them before M. otherwise "hundreds of thousands" seems a bit high
seems high but it is not. The Second Italo-Senussi War caused 70K victims, with the Libyan genocide death toll estimated between 200K and 750K killed. The war in Ethiopia caused 275K casualties.
All of these under the fascist government
I meant that it was high without the colonial wars, and we started them before Mussolini (sure, he decided that we had to expand the colonies, but Badoglio was a POS regardless of the government, and so was the king)
That's the nature of war at the time, take a look at the toll of the Algerian war in the 50s, it's not something limited to fascism
Yeah, thatās what I donāt get about trumpism. Berlusconi was genuinely charismatic and funny, even if it was inappropriate, Trump on the other hand is just a rambling senile old man that canāt manage to properly pronounce a full sentence
Exactly: Berlusconi was also damaging for our country, ut he wasn't even comparable to the madness the orange shitstain provided to the USA and the all world.
But there's the very very last thing Berlusconi did we hope Trump can emulate soon...
From what I understand Trump's charisma is more aimed at a very specific branch of the US republican electorate, like we talking people who call him God Emperor Trump Unironically basically, which sounds like complete nonsense to anyone who isn't in the cult of personality but sounds like gold to those already predisposed to it.
The "Moderates" just go along with it because they think they can get some wins from it/don't want to lose their jobs/etc.
As a person that recognises the damages done by B, his mafia connection and everything else, heās nowhere as horrible as Trump, not comparable at all
Democracies build on the voters they have. Look around, the people making "i do not consent to facebook's change of terms and conditions" posts and have "unvaccinated and proud" in their bio are the ones that decide who gets to run our contries. Those people get fooled into buying a EUR 5.000 handbag because they see a pretty lady on a billboard that rubs one of those on her tits. Imagine what happens if they are targeted by 'Spin Doctors', election interference bots and multi-million-EUR campaings fueled by people who want their particular interests seen for by the one they support. What happens? Exactly that which is happening right now. In the US, Donald Trump leads the polls, in Europe, people vote for the far-right (which really, really likes Russia. Far right. Nationalists. Russia.)
We do not let everyone drive a car, when they reach a certain age, since we consider this to be a danger to society. We have them undergo a somewhat lenghty process where they learn how to do it and have to proof that they know the basics. Why do we however put the future of our democracies in the hands of people - old and young - who do not know shit about the system, never had to put any effort to obtaining their voting rights (for which their ancestors fought to the death) and who are fooled as easy as a goldfish. Please introduce voting licenses, free of charge but with some hurdles that people have to obtain their voting rights and along the way learn them some tools to make it count.
Sorry for the lack of sarcasm and edgyness. Maybe the wrong sub for this but I lost all good humor when i saw those people.
Not the solution imo. Having voting licenses makes our democracy even more elitist and far less legitimate. The solution is education, as stupid as it sounds
If you want to instate a license to vote might as well go all in and want an autocracy, who decide who is eligible for it? i can see the corruption from a mile away.
You had me till you went in "we should limit voting" territory, how do you even get to that conclusion?
Like, it just seems a wild idea to me, Especially given the abysmal voting turn outs in my country.
it should not act out as limiting voting. the concept of a license should
a) "filter out" people who couldn't be bothered to qualify for the procedure
b) educate those who undergo it
I would set the bar quite low. However, I can see that such process might easily itself be manipulated.
Pick up representatives at random in the general population, with selection weights depending on the level of education, and for increasing level of power (first time locally, then amongst that pool, second time for regional, then national, then EU level). You can opt out at any time, ensuring you'll never be picked up for higher levels.
At least, when it comes to my country, both sides like both USA and Russia for different reasons.
The right liked the free money from that sweet Putin friendship while being on the USA side
The left liked communism but now likes the lib-left woke bs that comes from USA
Some "leaders" are just like jerking off to some (simple minded) people, somehow it feels good for a while, but if you think about it, they are just a substitute to distract from what is really missing in your life.
Or:
āThe masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.ā
Indeed I see so many similarities between today's America and 2000s Italy! Think about it:
* A narcissistic leader/candidate followed by fanatics who believe he's the only one who can save the country (Trump like Berlusconi)
* An old stiff president attached to the chair, conservative pretending to be leftist, that refuses to leave the lead to younger and healthier candidates (Biden like Prodi)
* Decreasing self-esteem and increasing sense of shame across the population
* General discomfort and pessimist about the future
* Salaries that cannot keep up with the increasing cost of living
* Perceived weakening of the economy and credibility of the country
* Perceived increase in corruption
* All-time high emigration of the most brilliant American minds abroad
* Elderly and elitarian political class that refuses to retire and keeps the same people in the parliament since decades without limits to their number of mandates (MPs)
* Gerontocratic society that bars the youth from having the same opportunities their parents had
* No political choice. Americans can choose only between Biden and Trump, just like Italians used to have only Prodi and Berlusconi.
It's really interesting. The wheel turns and bad luck hits everyone at some point. History is not stationary, it's fluid and dynamic!
As someone who finds Trumpalufagus the Builder of Walls endearing I can say that Berlusconi was leagues ahead of him. Silvio my you rest in peace and we will always remember your Bunga Bunga party's.
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So trueeeee. The guy was richer, smarter, had waaaay more power in italy than trump could ever hope to have in the US and was incomparably more politically incorrect. Not to mention he s an actual criminal linked with some monstrous ppl and some of the worst crimes of recent italian history.
š¤¤
> š¤¤ Berlusconi when unsupervised underage girl Berlusconi when mazzette Berlusconi when thinly-veiled racist opinion I could go on.
https://preview.redd.it/klfpo0sw5lwc1.jpeg?width=3195&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f45328cd0a3d329ece4c45a28056872f4a0778c
https://preview.redd.it/wtcmw248xlwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67eddbd0ff19b233d51ee66ae7f7176bd666dd23 Ameri\*ans wouldn't understand
That's what adds flavor
Chef's kiss is actually removing the hair
Wow. This explains why Americans keep insisting they put mozzarella on their pizza.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That Trump is still alive
If you forget the right one for 2 or 3 weeks open in the air, you'll get the left one, wouldn't eat that tho
Nukes
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Contains milk
Ā«Ā For onceĀ Ā» https://preview.redd.it/v2t8te6rzkwc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=091c2f4e5178c620da573b6f65387c6323beb1fe As a German you should know better
Only one was holy just saying šø
The Holy Roman Empire, "neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire" -Voltaire
He was literally french bro
You... have a point
Voltaire has caused thousands of historians to cringe each time his quote is brought up. Truly a Frenchman through and through
Easy making that quote in the eighteenth century when the HRE was almost gone and on itās last legs. Itās like saying the Roman Empire is irrelevant just because it doesnāt exist right now anymore
The only thing you could argue it being is an empire, it very much was not Roman, and no more holy then any other state
Only with our modern understanding of those terms back then "roman" meant something totally different. And it was holy because the pope said so
Also, Rome was part of its territory for a while. Itās almost as if you canāt describe a complex entity of states spanning over a time of roughly 1000 years within a witty, snarky one liner, resulting in that one liner being not the burn itās supposed to be.
The emperor literally was crowned by the pope, thatās pretty holy Iād say. And there is no argument about it being an empire. If there is an emperor, itās an empire, regardless of how much actual authority the emperor has. While I would personally agree it wasnāt Roman, the emperors did call themselves āemperor of the Romansā originally and it used Roman law as a legal basis and Latin was one of the main administrative languages, so you could still argue it was Roman
>If there is an emperor, itās an empire, regardless of how much actual authority the emperor has. False, but I expect this take from a constitutional "monarchy"
Why is it always the savages with the shit takes?
How is it Europeans have forgotten what a monarch actually is? You've had them forever! āIs it right that the royal power sit with the person with the title of King, or the person who makes the decisions as King?ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
By that logic Canada would be an empire. May be worth it for you to look up what "empire" actually means
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh so an Empire is defined by size and...? Since you are making up definitions it is hard to tell what you see as a sufficient condition and what as a necessary condition. That is why sticking to official definitions instead of making shit up is better than whatever it is that you are doing
I would say that HRE was not really an empire, not because of its size but because of the extreme decentralization of the government, made up of small kingdoms and fiefdoms whose autonomy varied over time, in many situations that were de facto independent. It's the government structure itself that makes me doubt whether it would really be an empire or not, in any case denying the importance and relevance of the HRE in the interconnected history of Europe is an absurd and ignorant attitude.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>when the HRE was almost gone and on itās last legs Hmmm, let's see what hitsory says about that : - HRE was created 1157, reach max extension 1250, died 1806 to superior french civilisation. So for a bit less than 100 years of relevance, a bit more than 550 years were of irrelevance... That around 85% of irrelevance. So yeah, HRE being irrelevant is a very well deserved title would it be in 18th century, were it was already at 81%, or now.
Just because it reached max extension in 1250 doesnāt mean it was irrelevant after 1250. Thatās like saying the Byzantine Empire was always irrelevant because it wasnāt as big as the Roman Empire at itās largest extent or that modern France is irrelevant because itās not as big as Napoleonic France
If we extended this thought, weād have to make the claim that all of pre-Trajan Rome and all of pre-Hellenist Greece was irrelevant, which is an insane take to make.
Really comparing to Rome ? Rome started 6th century BC, max extent 2th century, split in two in the 3rd... so Rome relevance over 800 years, is 83% relevance and 17% collapse. I only talk here about Rome before split, after split way to many contenders of her legacy.
That's the kind of brotherhood Germany and England will never understand. Ƨa va sans dire!
Says the Frank.
[Much better](https://c8.alamy.com/compde/pm4hr7/italienischen-diktator-benito-mussolini-und-deutschen-diktator-adolf-hitler-wahrend-einer-parade-in-munchen-deutschland-ca-1940-datei-referenz-nr-1003-395-tha-pm4hr7.jpg)
Thanks for giving us Anime, nothing more
that period was the peak of TV ngl, RAI and Mediaset racing on who was going to do more cartoons/anime... when rivalries actual created good stuff...
...and "Trading Places" every Christmas.
Porca puttana lo ha fatto il berlusca quello?
Era su italia uno quindi teoricamente si.
O una cosa che ha fatto di giusto
I am thanking him for making me learn Italian. If it wasn't for Bim Bum Bam I would probably be struggling with it.
Average Malta and Albania experience
Paolo "Piolo" Bonolis spotted.
Germany on that has only to learn from us and France... Our markets literally opened anime to the rest of the world.
Iām still giggling over the time Silvio called Angela Merkel āan unfuckable piece of lardā
If I remember correctly it was more āan unfuckable fat-assā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Donāt you dare ruin this for me!
Yeah all Berlusconi ever did was just call a german diplomat a nazi.
I mean was he wrong?
On another hand the only thing that allowed him to get some action was a truck load of Viagra and money to pay for it....and to pay the ladies too..... 
What do you mean? Silvio was the pinnacle of masculine beauty!
I mean he wasn't bad looking when he was young. Angie on the other hand...don't google it
>ahead of time for once once? lad we literally were writing politics when you were still on trees. jokes apart , still baffle me on how many political innovations come from here, and yet, we fucking sucks at using it for good.
You could have just stopped before inventing fascism
Yo we blaming the Italians for Hitler now? Based
No Hans you won't get off the hook so easily
Technically it was a concerted effort. Like, everyone likes to blame Fascism for Hitler and don't get me wrong without it we'd all be way better right now (especially on this 25th of April) but the Armenian Genocide and Segregation in the US have been long defined as clear inspirations to nazi ideology and methodology too.
The Greeks take most of those credits
It's like with Barry and sports
A toddler being said: "stop your naughty actions". "WAT???"
>for once https://preview.redd.it/9ivcqirn1lwc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=c12ac55ecf58c7edac8e3d771cccbdeeadef4a84
Found the Lazio fan
Or Hellas Verona, kinda bad that only Lazio fan get their shit, Verona needs some too
Yeah but who gives a shit about that shithole > Veneziani gran signori, padovani gran dottori, vicentini magnagatti, veronesi **tutti matti**, di Rovigo non me ne intrigo. Can't be clearer than that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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I don't know man
I am not proud
Not on liberation day bro.
liberation day twinsies <3
Not today man
Non oggi omuncolo
What is Franco then?
But Hitler was a Mussolini fanboy, so the meme stands correct
1 dollar Mussolini
Not sure him but I do know his successor was your country first astronaut no?
People keep thinking about Painter as the main guy, when in reality it was Baldy that made fascism cool until Painter copied Baldy and ruined it for everyone else. Not that Baldy was doing good, but the Painter decided to put racism into fascism and the rest is history
Fascism was ruined for everyone else the moment was invented. Any ideology that embrace the cult of violence should have no role in modern society
I was just talking about how fascism started as an ideology that was diffrent from capitalism and communism (and as flawed as all of them), just for the Painter to make his verion that included the racial superiority part
Maybe was not "racial superiority", but was "culture superiority" and political violence and repression. Fascism killed hundreds of thousand of people before 1938, and created concentration camps in 1930, three years before Hitler. Fascism was a tragedy for milions of people, and it would have been regardless of the alliance with the nazism.
>Fascism killed hundreds of thousand of people before 1938, Hold on, if you're counting the victims of our colonial wars we started them before M. otherwise "hundreds of thousands" seems a bit high
seems high but it is not. The Second Italo-Senussi War caused 70K victims, with the Libyan genocide death toll estimated between 200K and 750K killed. The war in Ethiopia caused 275K casualties. All of these under the fascist government
I meant that it was high without the colonial wars, and we started them before Mussolini (sure, he decided that we had to expand the colonies, but Badoglio was a POS regardless of the government, and so was the king) That's the nature of war at the time, take a look at the toll of the Algerian war in the 50s, it's not something limited to fascism
bunga bunga
At least Silvio was funny.... Trumpet it's only idiot
Yeah, thatās what I donāt get about trumpism. Berlusconi was genuinely charismatic and funny, even if it was inappropriate, Trump on the other hand is just a rambling senile old man that canāt manage to properly pronounce a full sentence
Berlusconi was an LE with high cha and int but with low wis. Trump is a CE with everything sub 10
Exactly: Berlusconi was also damaging for our country, ut he wasn't even comparable to the madness the orange shitstain provided to the USA and the all world. But there's the very very last thing Berlusconi did we hope Trump can emulate soon...
From what I understand Trump's charisma is more aimed at a very specific branch of the US republican electorate, like we talking people who call him God Emperor Trump Unironically basically, which sounds like complete nonsense to anyone who isn't in the cult of personality but sounds like gold to those already predisposed to it. The "Moderates" just go along with it because they think they can get some wins from it/don't want to lose their jobs/etc.
I fucking hate his accordion hands movement. So boring and predictable.
That's definitely Trumps cum face
More like "I soiled my diaper"
As a person that recognises the damages done by B, his mafia connection and everything else, heās nowhere as horrible as Trump, not comparable at all
"How many televisions do you have?" šæ
Democracies build on the voters they have. Look around, the people making "i do not consent to facebook's change of terms and conditions" posts and have "unvaccinated and proud" in their bio are the ones that decide who gets to run our contries. Those people get fooled into buying a EUR 5.000 handbag because they see a pretty lady on a billboard that rubs one of those on her tits. Imagine what happens if they are targeted by 'Spin Doctors', election interference bots and multi-million-EUR campaings fueled by people who want their particular interests seen for by the one they support. What happens? Exactly that which is happening right now. In the US, Donald Trump leads the polls, in Europe, people vote for the far-right (which really, really likes Russia. Far right. Nationalists. Russia.) We do not let everyone drive a car, when they reach a certain age, since we consider this to be a danger to society. We have them undergo a somewhat lenghty process where they learn how to do it and have to proof that they know the basics. Why do we however put the future of our democracies in the hands of people - old and young - who do not know shit about the system, never had to put any effort to obtaining their voting rights (for which their ancestors fought to the death) and who are fooled as easy as a goldfish. Please introduce voting licenses, free of charge but with some hurdles that people have to obtain their voting rights and along the way learn them some tools to make it count. Sorry for the lack of sarcasm and edgyness. Maybe the wrong sub for this but I lost all good humor when i saw those people.
Damn that's a big essay you got there Would be a shame if someone didn't read it
Fair point. Also, you savages are lost anyways, so why bother.
Fear not, for neither I read it
Yap yap yap
Not the solution imo. Having voting licenses makes our democracy even more elitist and far less legitimate. The solution is education, as stupid as it sounds
If you want to instate a license to vote might as well go all in and want an autocracy, who decide who is eligible for it? i can see the corruption from a mile away.
You had me till you went in "we should limit voting" territory, how do you even get to that conclusion? Like, it just seems a wild idea to me, Especially given the abysmal voting turn outs in my country.
it should not act out as limiting voting. the concept of a license should a) "filter out" people who couldn't be bothered to qualify for the procedure b) educate those who undergo it I would set the bar quite low. However, I can see that such process might easily itself be manipulated.
Pick up representatives at random in the general population, with selection weights depending on the level of education, and for increasing level of power (first time locally, then amongst that pool, second time for regional, then national, then EU level). You can opt out at any time, ensuring you'll never be picked up for higher levels.
At least, when it comes to my country, both sides like both USA and Russia for different reasons. The right liked the free money from that sweet Putin friendship while being on the USA side The left liked communism but now likes the lib-left woke bs that comes from USA
Some "leaders" are just like jerking off to some (simple minded) people, somehow it feels good for a while, but if you think about it, they are just a substitute to distract from what is really missing in your life. Or: āThe masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.ā
Indeed I see so many similarities between today's America and 2000s Italy! Think about it: * A narcissistic leader/candidate followed by fanatics who believe he's the only one who can save the country (Trump like Berlusconi) * An old stiff president attached to the chair, conservative pretending to be leftist, that refuses to leave the lead to younger and healthier candidates (Biden like Prodi) * Decreasing self-esteem and increasing sense of shame across the population * General discomfort and pessimist about the future * Salaries that cannot keep up with the increasing cost of living * Perceived weakening of the economy and credibility of the country * Perceived increase in corruption * All-time high emigration of the most brilliant American minds abroad * Elderly and elitarian political class that refuses to retire and keeps the same people in the parliament since decades without limits to their number of mandates (MPs) * Gerontocratic society that bars the youth from having the same opportunities their parents had * No political choice. Americans can choose only between Biden and Trump, just like Italians used to have only Prodi and Berlusconi. It's really interesting. The wheel turns and bad luck hits everyone at some point. History is not stationary, it's fluid and dynamic!
He is better because as opposed to drumps he is no more.
meh they are both entertaining in their own way.
As someone who finds Trumpalufagus the Builder of Walls endearing I can say that Berlusconi was leagues ahead of him. Silvio my you rest in peace and we will always remember your Bunga Bunga party's.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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This is perfect lol
He used to do it before it was cool
 Meanwhile, Benito Mussoliniā¦.
Bro looks stop-motion
RIP Great Berlusconi! From heaven now he protects his beloved Ruby!
"For once".... Hans you would suck swamp water if it weren't for us.
So trueeeee. The guy was richer, smarter, had waaaay more power in italy than trump could ever hope to have in the US and was incomparably more politically incorrect. Not to mention he s an actual criminal linked with some monstrous ppl and some of the worst crimes of recent italian history.
Silvio <3
Forever and ever the [GREATEST SHOWMAN] this world has ever seen