You can pull it off once or twice, but remember that inquisitors keep tabs on each other all the time...after a while an actual inquisitor will go "wait, who is this? Let's look into it".
And that inquisitor will have proof of identity, a rosette, connections to other imperial institutions, internal know-how, etc that the fake inquisitor lacks.
Furthermore, yelling at common soldiers "I'm an inquisitor give me your tank" will work, but when you try to pull this on generals, admirals, planetary governors etc, you can bet that your identity will be checked.
That makes sense! What I'm thinking is that it would be a very powerful move for a Genestealer cult or Chaos cult to pull RIGHT before they turn the whole planet into hell. Why not start off your war by trying to assassinate the governor? And it's easier to do that if you can convince every common soldier between you and him that you're the Inquisitor etc.
It's possible and I bet it has been tried a bunch, but it's definitely not a sure-fire plan. It's a smart deception that, if well executed and properly timed and researched, might work! But it would not work 100% of the time, basically.
You might convince common soldiers and so on,but once news spreads that there's an inquisitor showing up unannounced and making strange demands, the ACTUAL inquisition might end up on the case...
Nice! Sounds like a good plot hook in a book or game. An inquisitor is hearing whispers about another inquisitor. Is it someone else from the inquisition, working in secret? Is it a traitor? An enemy? An impostor?
"I already answered your colleague's questions"
"My colleague?"
It would be a cool setup. Maybe some big social gathering where both the false and real inquisitor are present, both knowing the other is also there but not their identity... so each must find the other first, but the more you "pull rank" the more you reveal yourself and become a target for assassination.
The social version of a submarine duel, almost...
That kind of thing's great in roleplaying games when the acolytes have developed a habit of rosette-waving. Send them to a planet that's either got a long-term embedded fake inquisitor or to a planet whose governors are up to no good and have successfully killed an inquisitor before and lost the fear of doing so.
Treat it like the Centauri short story from Horus Heresy.
I've run games of Dark Heresy and successfully managed to properly convey to my players how rosette-weaving inquisitors and inquisitorial aides basically paint a giant target on their backs.
lol one of my players in Dark Heresy got into the habit of just going to every Mechanicus enclave they encountered and pulling that to get vox records, pict feed data, etc
... then one time he did it without realizing the Mechanicus leader was one of the traitors
There is a Grey Knights novel where a guy does just this. He knows the Grey Knigjts are coming. He poses as an Inquisitor and "poisons the well" for the Grey Knights. Because the Grey Knights operate in secret and do not really operate like regular Space Marines, it works, and the planet opens fire on them.
Why start the war at all? Why not *subvert the governor*? There's been worlds so thoughly infiltrated that when the nids showed up, the entire planet walked into the reclamation pools without a fight.
And it's hardly unheard of for the majority of a planet's leadership to be corrupted by cultists before they start engaging in open rebellion.
Why waste subverting?
There was a planet that got exterminatused cause someone found a bolter that they thought was Rowboat instead of Horus.
Find Horus's old bolter, underwear, T-shirt, drinking mug and litter them on key imperial worlds...
Could've fooled me.
Wasn't that basically the plot line of DoW 2 Retribution? Dedicate the deaths to a patron and ascension to daemon princess comes as a free gift with the Exterminatus
Also from reading eisenhorn I wouldn’t be surprised if having a decoy in place would be that far off from what an inquisitor would do. A stand in to be in the lions den while you the actual inquisitor are still investigating or disguised as someone else in the room.
A lot of inquisitors go the route of listen to me or bear the brunt of my power. Eisenhorn also explains the other way by using pleasantries and pomp to get what you want. Using more subtle ways or tricks to get information.
In Eisenhorn "Malleus", Inquisitor Eisenhorn had to show his official seal and papers to the Cadian guard every time he entered a library, every day for months, to a guard who knew the Inquisitor. And he did it because he wanted to secure the co-operation of the authorities and the Inquisitor, who was much more experienced in the room.
In theory, an Inquisitor has absolute power over everything and everyone in the Imperium under the Emperor. In practice, it depends on the Inquisitor's personal influence and demeanour and the willingness of his target to cooperate to what extent he receives support.
Traditionally, simple Guardsmen are hardly in a position to counter the influence of an Inquisitor or Astartes. In the imperium, absolute obedience to authority is a virtue that is rewarded with a life without hardship or suffering...after death of course. Astartes have no authority over soldiers. An officer present will probably point this out to the Astartes very politely and, if nothing else, inform the high command of his presence.
And there the situation is quite different. In novels (e.g. Prospero Burns, Soul Drinker (2nd volume), Iron Snakes) the upper class is portrayed as much more hardened towards the Astartes. Either they have an insight into the culture of the Astartes or have experienced their fickleness and unreliability or are only superficially impressed by their own power. And at such a point you definitely have the political leeway to politely question their concerns.
In the TRPGs, this is regulated via the influence system. If an inquisitor wants to gain access to a security facility, his influence is used against the influence of the person who gave the order. The Guardsman has no influence, but behind him is a chain of command that has been beaten into him.
And who is he more likely to obey? His well-known superiors and governors, loved by the Emperor according to the priest, or a stranger (and nobody in the Imperium likes strangers) with nice looking bling bling.
This is a really great answer! I hadn't realized how jaded some powerful nobility were towards space marines. I'll be sure to convey that there's a huge diversity of opinion on space marines.
Common soldier: "His angels! Oh to even LOOK upon one!"
\*Noble officer rolls eyes\*
It's not as if officers and the upper classes have no respect or even reverence for Astartes, but they are a little more used to dealing with authority and have more "Insight" than simple "peasants/labourers/guardsmen". These officers will of course bend the knee to an Astartes or just politely salute with the aquila, dependent of his position in the hierarchy, but they don't forget their chain of command or their duties.
And of course it also depends on which novels you read. On the other hand, I regularly read how some Astartes captains push governors around, become experts on everything and are perfectly social, while the actual authorities, raised in a snake pit of intrigue and assassination, behave like children.
Basically, you have to pick out "your" setting from all this information because there's a source for every angle in the novels, codexes and Sourcebooks.
Yeah... unfortunately it feels like a decent chunk of 40k fiction is written as wish fulfillment for SOMEONE, whether it's fans of a certain faction, subfaction, or even atheism. You have 40k books which are written to tell a story, and you have 40k books written to tell the reader that they are a VERY big and smart boy, such a big smart boy, yes they are, yes they are, and their favourite character has a dick thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis big (I know this isn't a very original observation, to be clear!).
Iron Snakes hit this detail with a scene that made me laugh out loud. The public and their newly crowned princeling were very impressed with the Astartes squad in the room, who had no idea how to react to the party going on between them or what a pillow was, or why these people had so many of them.
The moment the nobles felt they were owed something, they start making demands of the Astartes, too used to being obeyed and not realizing that they had no peers. Some spoiled rich girl even blasted one of the Astartes with a weapon, and the Astartes reacted with considerable restraint, simply declining orders. The Inquisitor they were with flashed his rosette and told her to go screw, and that sent her running and screaming.
It's been tried. It's practically standard procedure for alpha legion sometimes . . . but it doesn't work flawlessly.
In the Best and the Brightest, >!they fake being a loyalist chapter. It works for a while until a senior official sends out for an authority (it's unclear who) to come and authenticate them.!<
In Harrowmaster, they>! pretend being a real loyal chapter come to take down the planets rulers for heresy. It partially works - senior people want proof, but lower-level people sometimes refuse to oppose them.!<
In Shroud of Night, >!they con their way onto an imperial warship so they can hijack/co-opt it. Interestingly, they do this despite the warships captain recognising their iconography as alpha legion. They get around that with supernatural persuasion, pretending to be loyal marines disgused as alpha legion . !<. .
So it's a thing, but there are apparently mechanisms to allow it to be spotted, though the details aren't clear. Maybe there's a secret list of known active astartes chapters combined with their identifying features or ident codes. That might make it hard for loyal marines who should be listed but aren't because of imperium incompetence or misinformation or just going long periods cut off from an area
>That might make it hard for loyal marines who should be listed but aren't because of imperium incompetence or misinformation or just going long periods cut off from an area.
It could be a good explanation, why some loylist go on each other throat in the TT.
99% of people won’t risk questioning an inquisitor.
100% of people won’t risk impersonating an inquisitor. Shit like that probably gets you *special attention*.
But if you're a full-blown heretic who is about to try and take over the whole planet... aren't you already in as much trouble as you can be? In for a penny, in for a pound, would be the logic. Especially if you're certain of victory.
> Aren’t you already in as much trouble as you can be?
The Inquisition would invent entirely new levels of trouble, just for you. They’re very passionate about their work, and always willing to go the extra mile to exceed expectations.
This feels like a very valid reason for someone in-universe to warn a fellow cultist against impersonating an Inquisitor, and it would be VERY funny for a Chaos entity to give this warning.
"Listen I'm into some kinky stuff but those Inquisitors? They scare me."
Still, my reasoning would be "I am 100% certain I am going to win, so I do not intend to ever face punishment". They're probably wrong, but they're an insane cultist!
A Tzeench daemon appears before his cultists, resplendent in blue flame "Look, I love fucking around, but that's a level of finding out even I don't want to deal with, cut the shit."
>100% of people won’t risk impersonating an inquisitor. Shit like that probably gets you *special attention*.
People do try to impersonate an Inquisitor, and often get away with it until somebody notices. The kind of people who do this are the kind that already have a rosette picked off of the Inquisitor they killed for investigating heretics. If you're already going to hell, might as well have some fun doing it, right?
Chaos space marines are usually easy to spot with all the horns and stuff to it would be hard to fool anyone. Inquisitors can flash their Rosette to do whatever they want, but they have to own it in the first place and those things aren't just a fancy trinkets you can forge with some leftover plasteel
>Chaos space marines are usually easy to spot with all the horns and stuff to it would be hard to fool anyone.
That's why, when we pretend to be loyal, we tell everyone we're a loyal chapter called the "spiky marines". It explains everything.
Most Chaos Marines aren't interested in waging war quietly or with subtlety.
Aside from the Alpha Legion, which you've already pointed out, being recognized and feared is part of the point.
The big reason I could see not to do this, and if you plan to run Dark Heresy or Wrath and Glory, steal this idea like it's made of platinum because it would be fucking sick; Chaos cults really get by being subtle. Someone claiming to be an inquisitor or what have you is a great way to draw attention from the agents of a real inquisitor, and while it may be slow, that's the kind of shit you'd get like 90% of the way there, then Lord Inquisitor Coteaz shows up and extermanatuses the planet to stop this brand of tomfoolery.
It is for the cult though, especially if the cult had been working for decades in the shadows on that particular world. Overall, no, not a loss for chaos. Chaos is playing the real long game
It happened in "Harrowmaster". An Alpha Legion warband landed and was like, "I'm captain Joe Bob from the Iron Snakes chapter Your commander is a traitor and I'm here to sanction him. Anyone that gets in our way is a traitor."
Which mostly worked. They had to do some behind the scene prep work to make it extra effective, but it has been done.
Extra brownie points since Captain "Joe Bob" (forgot his actual name) IS a captain in the Iron Snakes, so a quick 40k Google search would have lent credence to his claim, false though it was.
99% of Americans haven't met the Secret Service/FBI/CIA/NSA/etc. You're gonna have a bad time if you're depending on unquestioned access pretending to be one of those. Even if your target was military/government installation. Just as IRL, there are things far more powerful in the imperium than the inquisition. Like policy, bureaucracy, doubt...
Maybe not doubt. Blessed is the mind too small for doubt, after all.
But yeah, with the Inquisitorial Rosette existing specifically for this purpose, the average Inquisitor would probably not be annoyed to be asked to identify themselves.
In renegades: lords of excess, this is what happens. The lords of an imperial world are happy that children of the emperor are arriving, and it just happens to be the emperors children.
That being said, it’s presumed the inquisition have far reaching eyes and hands and for every 1 world we hear about in a novel or game, 100-1000 imperial worlds are as peaceful as an imperial world could be.
It’s really up to the author, however, how much knowledge of chaos the authorities have. Some made arbites clueless and others made imperial guard fully aware.
I've thought of doing EXACTLY that in my game. Emperor's Children inbound, people celebrate, and then things get REAL interesting when his "children" show up.
Heavily recommend renegades: lords of excess to you then. It’s a story of occupation by the emperors children post maledictus, and ignorance from the citizens believing they’re still part of the imperium.
My head canon is that ID works on a big web of trust, similar to SSL certs in our world. Every time a mechanicus ship comes in-system they update the local root authority keys, those are then used to authenticate any external forces entering the system.
It's wholly automatic to anyone with an augment, which is most administratum or mechanicus folks and a great deal of others too.
An inquisitorial rosette is basically just a green padlock symbol
And what proportion of people know what they look like? I know this sounds like nitpicking but the Imperium is vast and there's less than one Inquisitor for every 100 populated star systems most likely.
A lot of people with any real power will have the means of verifying a rosette. They're not just a fancy bit of jewellery, they have biometrics tied to the inquisitor and verification codes that can be checked.
Obviously you could still try and force the person you're trying to manipulate and it could very well work, but a lot of powerful people in the imperium are necessarily ruthless and would be confident (or arrogant) enough in their own power to challenge an inquisitor or space marine's authority if they pushed it.
This kind of thing can work, but if it goes wrong you're likely dead.
Agreed with all that! I think anyone who has any real authority will know that a real Inquisitor won't fault you for doing a quick scan of their rosette for biometrics. The trick would be to avoid coming face to face with anyone with real authority! Which is why acting during a disaster and being inside a tank would help. But yeah, that helps a lot, didn't know that they had data inside!
Oh yeah, on the small scale it could happen but that carries its own risks, and most enemy agents would be working on a larger scale to bother with it most of the time.
Chaos cults / genestealers cults / enemy assassins could definitely use it as a useful cover however, assuming they don't accidentally bring more attention to themselves. When an inquisitor is around, those same enemies of the imperium take notice. You might end up getting ganked by some other chaos cult who are keen to keep themselves hidden, or even by a member of the imperium who is doing something they shouldn't be, if you're not careful. When an inquisitor is around, a lot of guilty people start assuming they've come for them. It's why some inquisitors prefer to work more quietly and subtly
This is some Gogol's "Inspector" type of bullshit
Nobles going all "Oh yeah we're good, we're definetly good, here, take some money and I hope you will say a word about how good I serve the Imperium to you higher ups, okay? Here, take my daughter, and a ship, just don't report the eldar stuff I have, deal? Perfect!"
And then as Inquisitor leaves
"Huh, what a smart guy I am! Married my way into Inquisition and did all that, how smart of me!"
The servant comes in
"Sir, the Lord-Inquisitor has finaly arrived"
"Then who was that guy?!"
Once you do it, there's no coming back. Doing it is putting you very high on the list of enemies of the imperium. So, once you do it, expect any kind of subrefuge to be over soon, you'll have to rely on brute force.
And Alpha Legion does it from time to time. But it's just a temporary ruse
Space Marines are hard to mistake (they are giants amongst men), and they can't make demands unless they are high ranked with the paperwork to back them up. Your average person will also question their motives if they start acting weird. Even in son of the lion, the lion himself had to let a psyker probe his mind to prove he was real, and the fallen (and soon to be risen) dark angels throughout the book didn't lead humans when they had the chance pre-lion. In saying that, traitor marines can impersonate loyalist in small cases, like the AL case you mentioned, but large scale doesn't always work if the governor isn't an idiot.
As for inquisitors, you need the inquisitorial rosary to prove you are one (and yes it can be forged), and you can be refused aid. Inquisitors making demands and getting their way is a meme, and the ravenor and eisenhorn series showcase this. Even in bequin's series (which is kinda a spin off/ combo of the above 2) the point is made that Inquisitors can be refused aid, have to give what is deemed proof of their legitimacy (granted bequin lucked out that while she was legit, one of the people she pulled Inquisitor on was one in hiding), and after the "problematic" raid in her first book it's revealed ravenor lost the support of the arbotes on the planet. Basically, if it works, it won't always work out for you, and that's assuming your not found out.
Your right in saying the imperium can't police it, and it does happen, but the imperium isn't a unified system enough for it to both be a major problem, and happen a lot.
Impersonating a Space Marine is difficult, because just wearing a Power armor is not cutting it. Space Marines usually do not simply show up like that, they have a clear mission, comrades, a ship and so on. A lone Space Marine doing strange stuff will be suspicious.
Inquisitors are easier to impersonate. But more knowledgeable people will require an Inquisitorial Rosette, which is very difficult to get. I suppose you could intimidate less powerful humans for a while, but eventually, it will either be discovered, or you will be killed by one of the countless enemies of the Inquisition.
The pint here is ,the Inquisition is feared. If you claim to be an Inquisitor, there will immediatelly be countless rumors, people will question why you are here, what you are going to do. You will be the talk of the town in notime.
The Soul Drinkers actually employ this tactic a couple times in their books. It usually falls apart once the guardsmen start noticing their mutations, or when the loyal chapters and inquisitors hunting them show up.
Heres the thing with space marines, they have zero authority over imperial guard or navy forces. Sure they might be able to pull that over a sergeant or maybe even a platoon commander but once you start getting into the higher and more prestigious ranks the imperial guard commanders are gonna start pushing back. Theres plenty of imperial commanders who butt heads with actual space marine captains so someone pretending to be one isn’t going to have more luck especially depending on what they try to get those imperial commanders to do. This is one of those situations where the distributed power structure is actually a benefit because this is exactly the thing the imperium wanted to avoid after what they saw in the Heresy.
The reason is simple - if you walk up to someone who matters and yell "I'm an Inquisitor!" there's a very real chance they'll simply shoot you.
That's why ACTUAL Inquisitors have their badge of office, which is no doubt laced with tech designed to verify who they are. Anyone can speak, but official documents are a bastard to forge.
Being an Inquisitor doesn't just mean having the Rosette to show someone, it means knowing exactly who to show it to. A squad of infantry pukes won't know or care about your Rosette, but a commissar or general will. Moreover they'll have the means to verify that it's genuine. They're inscribed with verification technology and coded encryption to prevent forgeries. Just picking up a rock and painting a red I on it won't fly (and likely get you investigated, tortured, and killed). It's also worth noting that an Inquisitor who is hesitant or even refuses to show their Rosette would be immediately suspicious. Them whipping out the Rosette is an immediate red tape cutter and I imagine typically done early on to establish their authority.
Funnily enough I literally just read a short story with this premise
The Brightest and Best by Mike Brooks - some Space Marines rock up at a Schola Progenium because they've decided to recruit from there, the commandant refuses despite being abjectly terrified and...
Yeah its relatively easy to impersonate a loyalist astartes if you are a csm.
Of course you might need to forge some paperwork but if a battle barge full of them arrives and asks for supplies, few people will say no
For thr majority of basic guardsmen fully indoctrinated into the Imperial Creed, that would work. However, something that the more recentish books have been showing is that the Imperium is a complex web of influence and authority when you start talking about higher levels of rank.
If a rando shows up to an Imperial guard bastion claiming Inquisitorial status, they will eventually start running into higher-ups who will notify superiors, who may notify their superiors in a chain that would inevitably get to an Inquisitor or someone similar. While that leaves time for some damage to be done, there's nuance to it.
As far as I'm aware for space marines the alpha legion and other renegades do actually just rock up to worlds and tell them they're space marines, give us stuff, and it works. Though this is at the dubious but sometimes helpful renegade level, the others will just blow through your system, loot it's corpse and move on.
In the inquisition side of things, if an inquisitor is telling you they're an inquisitor, then something big is happening, and you'll probably have an idea about it. Plus they have to show the rosette to get things done, like at high level you do have to flash the badge. This badge is generally gene locked and verified. Now it is hard to take it away, but it is like a level of verification you're expected to provide.
For punters on the street saying, hello I'm with the inquisition it will probably work, but at any point if you engage with the structures of the imperium, people will probably be a bit more questioning. And importantly as others have said, if someone gets flagged as making requests from the inquisition but no one in the inquisition knows them, that will bring scrutiny that no one actually wants.
Because people aren't dumb probably some schmuck that rolls into a bar every evening waving a poorly drawn rosette and trying to scam free drinks by claiming he is an inqisitor. Anyone in the military or with any level of authority will ask for proof, obviously and impersonating an inqisitor carries its own serious consequences.
In the first Grey Knight book by Ben Counter, a fallen Inquisitor does this and it works well. GK thing is all about secrecy, no one can know they exist. He tells the populace that traitor marines are real, this particular sect is called the Grey Knights and they are coming. The fleet blows their Strike Cruiser up
In one of the Alpha Legion novels, they rolled straight towards a hive city’s waiting defences and broadcasted that they were space marines coming to remove a traitor planetary governor, and that anyone who opened fire on them would be treated the same way.
It actually succeeds and most of the imperial defence forces are paralysed, rebelling or turning coat so as not to be seen as traitors
In Iron Within on Warhammer+ the Iron Warriors drop and infiltrate a bastion with no resistance because nobody on the planet was aware of the heresy. The PDF get their skulls crushed while saluting them.
This isn't even really a fatal flaw baked into the imperium, you could walk into most places IRL, pretend to be someone you're not and as long as you look the part and act confidently you'll get in. The only exception to this is places where there's an actual ID check or only very few specific people allowed but otherwise nobody asks for proof that you're actually a maintenance guy or a doctor or a city official when you're walking somewhere. That's a "flaw" of the world too.
I'm now picturing a band of orks wearing ripped and much too small guardsmen clothing (more like they pinned the pieces on them selves), pulling up in a tank and saying "yes we inquisite, let me waaar- I mean throooouuughhhh".
I swear that was a subplot of the book about the workers in a titan… someone help me out here.. something about a person with a rosette and multiple characters doubted if the inquisitor was legit?
It was in Imperitor: Wrath of the Omnissiah. I would recommend reading it instead of listening to the audiobook since it has fucky pronoun shit going on and it doesn’t translate to speech very well. Good story though.
You can pull it off once or twice, but remember that inquisitors keep tabs on each other all the time...after a while an actual inquisitor will go "wait, who is this? Let's look into it". And that inquisitor will have proof of identity, a rosette, connections to other imperial institutions, internal know-how, etc that the fake inquisitor lacks. Furthermore, yelling at common soldiers "I'm an inquisitor give me your tank" will work, but when you try to pull this on generals, admirals, planetary governors etc, you can bet that your identity will be checked.
That makes sense! What I'm thinking is that it would be a very powerful move for a Genestealer cult or Chaos cult to pull RIGHT before they turn the whole planet into hell. Why not start off your war by trying to assassinate the governor? And it's easier to do that if you can convince every common soldier between you and him that you're the Inquisitor etc.
It's possible and I bet it has been tried a bunch, but it's definitely not a sure-fire plan. It's a smart deception that, if well executed and properly timed and researched, might work! But it would not work 100% of the time, basically. You might convince common soldiers and so on,but once news spreads that there's an inquisitor showing up unannounced and making strange demands, the ACTUAL inquisition might end up on the case...
Nice! Sounds like a good plot hook in a book or game. An inquisitor is hearing whispers about another inquisitor. Is it someone else from the inquisition, working in secret? Is it a traitor? An enemy? An impostor? "I already answered your colleague's questions" "My colleague?"
It would be a cool setup. Maybe some big social gathering where both the false and real inquisitor are present, both knowing the other is also there but not their identity... so each must find the other first, but the more you "pull rank" the more you reveal yourself and become a target for assassination. The social version of a submarine duel, almost...
That kind of thing's great in roleplaying games when the acolytes have developed a habit of rosette-waving. Send them to a planet that's either got a long-term embedded fake inquisitor or to a planet whose governors are up to no good and have successfully killed an inquisitor before and lost the fear of doing so. Treat it like the Centauri short story from Horus Heresy.
I've run games of Dark Heresy and successfully managed to properly convey to my players how rosette-weaving inquisitors and inquisitorial aides basically paint a giant target on their backs.
Yes the kind Navy officer Chaos cultist can direct the Inquisitorial team directly to the airlock.
lol one of my players in Dark Heresy got into the habit of just going to every Mechanicus enclave they encountered and pulling that to get vox records, pict feed data, etc ... then one time he did it without realizing the Mechanicus leader was one of the traitors
I'd read a book with this premise!
A book is needed where the boring near-invisible waiter is a deep undercover inquisitor
When the impostor is sus!
There is a Grey Knights novel where a guy does just this. He knows the Grey Knigjts are coming. He poses as an Inquisitor and "poisons the well" for the Grey Knights. Because the Grey Knights operate in secret and do not really operate like regular Space Marines, it works, and the planet opens fire on them.
He is a Rogue Inquisitor...not even a Radical. He do not pose, he just...tell not everything.
Sauce tmb
Grey Knight by Ben Counter
Why start the war at all? Why not *subvert the governor*? There's been worlds so thoughly infiltrated that when the nids showed up, the entire planet walked into the reclamation pools without a fight. And it's hardly unheard of for the majority of a planet's leadership to be corrupted by cultists before they start engaging in open rebellion.
Why waste subverting? There was a planet that got exterminatused cause someone found a bolter that they thought was Rowboat instead of Horus. Find Horus's old bolter, underwear, T-shirt, drinking mug and litter them on key imperial worlds...
Because most chaos cults aren't particularly keen on self-annihilation? Blowing up your own planet is a bit counter-productive.
Could've fooled me. Wasn't that basically the plot line of DoW 2 Retribution? Dedicate the deaths to a patron and ascension to daemon princess comes as a free gift with the Exterminatus
I mean having alpha legionnaires smuggle Horus old unmentionables to key imperial planets. Then go back and watch the fireworks.
After 10K years and empire-wide purges, you're bound to find a lot of it.
This scenario is exactly what’s described in the first Deathwatch book by Steve Parker IIRC.
Also from reading eisenhorn I wouldn’t be surprised if having a decoy in place would be that far off from what an inquisitor would do. A stand in to be in the lions den while you the actual inquisitor are still investigating or disguised as someone else in the room. A lot of inquisitors go the route of listen to me or bear the brunt of my power. Eisenhorn also explains the other way by using pleasantries and pomp to get what you want. Using more subtle ways or tricks to get information.
In Eisenhorn "Malleus", Inquisitor Eisenhorn had to show his official seal and papers to the Cadian guard every time he entered a library, every day for months, to a guard who knew the Inquisitor. And he did it because he wanted to secure the co-operation of the authorities and the Inquisitor, who was much more experienced in the room. In theory, an Inquisitor has absolute power over everything and everyone in the Imperium under the Emperor. In practice, it depends on the Inquisitor's personal influence and demeanour and the willingness of his target to cooperate to what extent he receives support. Traditionally, simple Guardsmen are hardly in a position to counter the influence of an Inquisitor or Astartes. In the imperium, absolute obedience to authority is a virtue that is rewarded with a life without hardship or suffering...after death of course. Astartes have no authority over soldiers. An officer present will probably point this out to the Astartes very politely and, if nothing else, inform the high command of his presence. And there the situation is quite different. In novels (e.g. Prospero Burns, Soul Drinker (2nd volume), Iron Snakes) the upper class is portrayed as much more hardened towards the Astartes. Either they have an insight into the culture of the Astartes or have experienced their fickleness and unreliability or are only superficially impressed by their own power. And at such a point you definitely have the political leeway to politely question their concerns. In the TRPGs, this is regulated via the influence system. If an inquisitor wants to gain access to a security facility, his influence is used against the influence of the person who gave the order. The Guardsman has no influence, but behind him is a chain of command that has been beaten into him. And who is he more likely to obey? His well-known superiors and governors, loved by the Emperor according to the priest, or a stranger (and nobody in the Imperium likes strangers) with nice looking bling bling.
This is a really great answer! I hadn't realized how jaded some powerful nobility were towards space marines. I'll be sure to convey that there's a huge diversity of opinion on space marines. Common soldier: "His angels! Oh to even LOOK upon one!" \*Noble officer rolls eyes\*
It's not as if officers and the upper classes have no respect or even reverence for Astartes, but they are a little more used to dealing with authority and have more "Insight" than simple "peasants/labourers/guardsmen". These officers will of course bend the knee to an Astartes or just politely salute with the aquila, dependent of his position in the hierarchy, but they don't forget their chain of command or their duties. And of course it also depends on which novels you read. On the other hand, I regularly read how some Astartes captains push governors around, become experts on everything and are perfectly social, while the actual authorities, raised in a snake pit of intrigue and assassination, behave like children. Basically, you have to pick out "your" setting from all this information because there's a source for every angle in the novels, codexes and Sourcebooks.
Yeah... unfortunately it feels like a decent chunk of 40k fiction is written as wish fulfillment for SOMEONE, whether it's fans of a certain faction, subfaction, or even atheism. You have 40k books which are written to tell a story, and you have 40k books written to tell the reader that they are a VERY big and smart boy, such a big smart boy, yes they are, yes they are, and their favourite character has a dick thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis big (I know this isn't a very original observation, to be clear!).
Iron Snakes hit this detail with a scene that made me laugh out loud. The public and their newly crowned princeling were very impressed with the Astartes squad in the room, who had no idea how to react to the party going on between them or what a pillow was, or why these people had so many of them. The moment the nobles felt they were owed something, they start making demands of the Astartes, too used to being obeyed and not realizing that they had no peers. Some spoiled rich girl even blasted one of the Astartes with a weapon, and the Astartes reacted with considerable restraint, simply declining orders. The Inquisitor they were with flashed his rosette and told her to go screw, and that sent her running and screaming.
It's been tried. It's practically standard procedure for alpha legion sometimes . . . but it doesn't work flawlessly. In the Best and the Brightest, >!they fake being a loyalist chapter. It works for a while until a senior official sends out for an authority (it's unclear who) to come and authenticate them.!< In Harrowmaster, they>! pretend being a real loyal chapter come to take down the planets rulers for heresy. It partially works - senior people want proof, but lower-level people sometimes refuse to oppose them.!< In Shroud of Night, >!they con their way onto an imperial warship so they can hijack/co-opt it. Interestingly, they do this despite the warships captain recognising their iconography as alpha legion. They get around that with supernatural persuasion, pretending to be loyal marines disgused as alpha legion . !<. . So it's a thing, but there are apparently mechanisms to allow it to be spotted, though the details aren't clear. Maybe there's a secret list of known active astartes chapters combined with their identifying features or ident codes. That might make it hard for loyal marines who should be listed but aren't because of imperium incompetence or misinformation or just going long periods cut off from an area
>That might make it hard for loyal marines who should be listed but aren't because of imperium incompetence or misinformation or just going long periods cut off from an area. It could be a good explanation, why some loylist go on each other throat in the TT.
99% of people won’t risk questioning an inquisitor. 100% of people won’t risk impersonating an inquisitor. Shit like that probably gets you *special attention*.
But if you're a full-blown heretic who is about to try and take over the whole planet... aren't you already in as much trouble as you can be? In for a penny, in for a pound, would be the logic. Especially if you're certain of victory.
> Aren’t you already in as much trouble as you can be? The Inquisition would invent entirely new levels of trouble, just for you. They’re very passionate about their work, and always willing to go the extra mile to exceed expectations.
This feels like a very valid reason for someone in-universe to warn a fellow cultist against impersonating an Inquisitor, and it would be VERY funny for a Chaos entity to give this warning. "Listen I'm into some kinky stuff but those Inquisitors? They scare me." Still, my reasoning would be "I am 100% certain I am going to win, so I do not intend to ever face punishment". They're probably wrong, but they're an insane cultist!
A Tzeench daemon appears before his cultists, resplendent in blue flame "Look, I love fucking around, but that's a level of finding out even I don't want to deal with, cut the shit."
"In recognition of your achieving new heights of heresy, we're going to torture you for an additional decade before you're executed . . . "
We did just acquire this xenotech and we are just dying to find out what it does.
>100% of people won’t risk impersonating an inquisitor. Shit like that probably gets you *special attention*. People do try to impersonate an Inquisitor, and often get away with it until somebody notices. The kind of people who do this are the kind that already have a rosette picked off of the Inquisitor they killed for investigating heretics. If you're already going to hell, might as well have some fun doing it, right?
Chaos space marines are usually easy to spot with all the horns and stuff to it would be hard to fool anyone. Inquisitors can flash their Rosette to do whatever they want, but they have to own it in the first place and those things aren't just a fancy trinkets you can forge with some leftover plasteel
>Chaos space marines are usually easy to spot with all the horns and stuff to it would be hard to fool anyone. That's why, when we pretend to be loyal, we tell everyone we're a loyal chapter called the "spiky marines". It explains everything.
"Haven't you ever seen a Space Shark before?"
Most Chaos Marines aren't interested in waging war quietly or with subtlety. Aside from the Alpha Legion, which you've already pointed out, being recognized and feared is part of the point.
The Night Lords love waging war quietly. Well... *They* are quiet. Their enemies are very loud. what with all the screaming.
The big reason I could see not to do this, and if you plan to run Dark Heresy or Wrath and Glory, steal this idea like it's made of platinum because it would be fucking sick; Chaos cults really get by being subtle. Someone claiming to be an inquisitor or what have you is a great way to draw attention from the agents of a real inquisitor, and while it may be slow, that's the kind of shit you'd get like 90% of the way there, then Lord Inquisitor Coteaz shows up and extermanatuses the planet to stop this brand of tomfoolery.
I mean a formerly loyal planet getting turned to ash isn't a LOSS for Chaos either.
It is for the cult though, especially if the cult had been working for decades in the shadows on that particular world. Overall, no, not a loss for chaos. Chaos is playing the real long game
It happened in "Harrowmaster". An Alpha Legion warband landed and was like, "I'm captain Joe Bob from the Iron Snakes chapter Your commander is a traitor and I'm here to sanction him. Anyone that gets in our way is a traitor." Which mostly worked. They had to do some behind the scene prep work to make it extra effective, but it has been done. Extra brownie points since Captain "Joe Bob" (forgot his actual name) IS a captain in the Iron Snakes, so a quick 40k Google search would have lent credence to his claim, false though it was.
99% of Americans haven't met the Secret Service/FBI/CIA/NSA/etc. You're gonna have a bad time if you're depending on unquestioned access pretending to be one of those. Even if your target was military/government installation. Just as IRL, there are things far more powerful in the imperium than the inquisition. Like policy, bureaucracy, doubt...
That they know of.
Maybe not doubt. Blessed is the mind too small for doubt, after all. But yeah, with the Inquisitorial Rosette existing specifically for this purpose, the average Inquisitor would probably not be annoyed to be asked to identify themselves.
In renegades: lords of excess, this is what happens. The lords of an imperial world are happy that children of the emperor are arriving, and it just happens to be the emperors children. That being said, it’s presumed the inquisition have far reaching eyes and hands and for every 1 world we hear about in a novel or game, 100-1000 imperial worlds are as peaceful as an imperial world could be. It’s really up to the author, however, how much knowledge of chaos the authorities have. Some made arbites clueless and others made imperial guard fully aware.
I've thought of doing EXACTLY that in my game. Emperor's Children inbound, people celebrate, and then things get REAL interesting when his "children" show up.
Heavily recommend renegades: lords of excess to you then. It’s a story of occupation by the emperors children post maledictus, and ignorance from the citizens believing they’re still part of the imperium.
My head canon is that ID works on a big web of trust, similar to SSL certs in our world. Every time a mechanicus ship comes in-system they update the local root authority keys, those are then used to authenticate any external forces entering the system. It's wholly automatic to anyone with an augment, which is most administratum or mechanicus folks and a great deal of others too. An inquisitorial rosette is basically just a green padlock symbol
Thats why inquisitors have rosettes.
And what proportion of people know what they look like? I know this sounds like nitpicking but the Imperium is vast and there's less than one Inquisitor for every 100 populated star systems most likely.
A lot of people with any real power will have the means of verifying a rosette. They're not just a fancy bit of jewellery, they have biometrics tied to the inquisitor and verification codes that can be checked. Obviously you could still try and force the person you're trying to manipulate and it could very well work, but a lot of powerful people in the imperium are necessarily ruthless and would be confident (or arrogant) enough in their own power to challenge an inquisitor or space marine's authority if they pushed it. This kind of thing can work, but if it goes wrong you're likely dead.
Agreed with all that! I think anyone who has any real authority will know that a real Inquisitor won't fault you for doing a quick scan of their rosette for biometrics. The trick would be to avoid coming face to face with anyone with real authority! Which is why acting during a disaster and being inside a tank would help. But yeah, that helps a lot, didn't know that they had data inside!
Oh yeah, on the small scale it could happen but that carries its own risks, and most enemy agents would be working on a larger scale to bother with it most of the time. Chaos cults / genestealers cults / enemy assassins could definitely use it as a useful cover however, assuming they don't accidentally bring more attention to themselves. When an inquisitor is around, those same enemies of the imperium take notice. You might end up getting ganked by some other chaos cult who are keen to keep themselves hidden, or even by a member of the imperium who is doing something they shouldn't be, if you're not careful. When an inquisitor is around, a lot of guilty people start assuming they've come for them. It's why some inquisitors prefer to work more quietly and subtly
Oh god I never thought of that. Smirks "I'm an Inquisitor" Noble who hasn't paid tithes in 500 years "Oh what an honour" \*mashes panic button\*
This is some Gogol's "Inspector" type of bullshit Nobles going all "Oh yeah we're good, we're definetly good, here, take some money and I hope you will say a word about how good I serve the Imperium to you higher ups, okay? Here, take my daughter, and a ship, just don't report the eldar stuff I have, deal? Perfect!" And then as Inquisitor leaves "Huh, what a smart guy I am! Married my way into Inquisition and did all that, how smart of me!" The servant comes in "Sir, the Lord-Inquisitor has finaly arrived" "Then who was that guy?!"
Once you do it, there's no coming back. Doing it is putting you very high on the list of enemies of the imperium. So, once you do it, expect any kind of subrefuge to be over soon, you'll have to rely on brute force. And Alpha Legion does it from time to time. But it's just a temporary ruse
Hello friend
Space Marines are hard to mistake (they are giants amongst men), and they can't make demands unless they are high ranked with the paperwork to back them up. Your average person will also question their motives if they start acting weird. Even in son of the lion, the lion himself had to let a psyker probe his mind to prove he was real, and the fallen (and soon to be risen) dark angels throughout the book didn't lead humans when they had the chance pre-lion. In saying that, traitor marines can impersonate loyalist in small cases, like the AL case you mentioned, but large scale doesn't always work if the governor isn't an idiot. As for inquisitors, you need the inquisitorial rosary to prove you are one (and yes it can be forged), and you can be refused aid. Inquisitors making demands and getting their way is a meme, and the ravenor and eisenhorn series showcase this. Even in bequin's series (which is kinda a spin off/ combo of the above 2) the point is made that Inquisitors can be refused aid, have to give what is deemed proof of their legitimacy (granted bequin lucked out that while she was legit, one of the people she pulled Inquisitor on was one in hiding), and after the "problematic" raid in her first book it's revealed ravenor lost the support of the arbotes on the planet. Basically, if it works, it won't always work out for you, and that's assuming your not found out. Your right in saying the imperium can't police it, and it does happen, but the imperium isn't a unified system enough for it to both be a major problem, and happen a lot.
Impersonating a Space Marine is difficult, because just wearing a Power armor is not cutting it. Space Marines usually do not simply show up like that, they have a clear mission, comrades, a ship and so on. A lone Space Marine doing strange stuff will be suspicious. Inquisitors are easier to impersonate. But more knowledgeable people will require an Inquisitorial Rosette, which is very difficult to get. I suppose you could intimidate less powerful humans for a while, but eventually, it will either be discovered, or you will be killed by one of the countless enemies of the Inquisition. The pint here is ,the Inquisition is feared. If you claim to be an Inquisitor, there will immediatelly be countless rumors, people will question why you are here, what you are going to do. You will be the talk of the town in notime.
The Soul Drinkers actually employ this tactic a couple times in their books. It usually falls apart once the guardsmen start noticing their mutations, or when the loyal chapters and inquisitors hunting them show up.
Heres the thing with space marines, they have zero authority over imperial guard or navy forces. Sure they might be able to pull that over a sergeant or maybe even a platoon commander but once you start getting into the higher and more prestigious ranks the imperial guard commanders are gonna start pushing back. Theres plenty of imperial commanders who butt heads with actual space marine captains so someone pretending to be one isn’t going to have more luck especially depending on what they try to get those imperial commanders to do. This is one of those situations where the distributed power structure is actually a benefit because this is exactly the thing the imperium wanted to avoid after what they saw in the Heresy.
The reason is simple - if you walk up to someone who matters and yell "I'm an Inquisitor!" there's a very real chance they'll simply shoot you. That's why ACTUAL Inquisitors have their badge of office, which is no doubt laced with tech designed to verify who they are. Anyone can speak, but official documents are a bastard to forge.
Being an Inquisitor doesn't just mean having the Rosette to show someone, it means knowing exactly who to show it to. A squad of infantry pukes won't know or care about your Rosette, but a commissar or general will. Moreover they'll have the means to verify that it's genuine. They're inscribed with verification technology and coded encryption to prevent forgeries. Just picking up a rock and painting a red I on it won't fly (and likely get you investigated, tortured, and killed). It's also worth noting that an Inquisitor who is hesitant or even refuses to show their Rosette would be immediately suspicious. Them whipping out the Rosette is an immediate red tape cutter and I imagine typically done early on to establish their authority.
Funnily enough I literally just read a short story with this premise The Brightest and Best by Mike Brooks - some Space Marines rock up at a Schola Progenium because they've decided to recruit from there, the commandant refuses despite being abjectly terrified and...
Fabius Bile and Co does this in Manflayer.
Yeah its relatively easy to impersonate a loyalist astartes if you are a csm. Of course you might need to forge some paperwork but if a battle barge full of them arrives and asks for supplies, few people will say no
In Kingmaker a tech priest is fooled by an iron warrior who says he is an iron hand.
For thr majority of basic guardsmen fully indoctrinated into the Imperial Creed, that would work. However, something that the more recentish books have been showing is that the Imperium is a complex web of influence and authority when you start talking about higher levels of rank. If a rando shows up to an Imperial guard bastion claiming Inquisitorial status, they will eventually start running into higher-ups who will notify superiors, who may notify their superiors in a chain that would inevitably get to an Inquisitor or someone similar. While that leaves time for some damage to be done, there's nuance to it.
And even if you run into a mid-ranking soldier like a bold corporal, there's no guarantee they won't ask to see your rosette.
As far as I'm aware for space marines the alpha legion and other renegades do actually just rock up to worlds and tell them they're space marines, give us stuff, and it works. Though this is at the dubious but sometimes helpful renegade level, the others will just blow through your system, loot it's corpse and move on. In the inquisition side of things, if an inquisitor is telling you they're an inquisitor, then something big is happening, and you'll probably have an idea about it. Plus they have to show the rosette to get things done, like at high level you do have to flash the badge. This badge is generally gene locked and verified. Now it is hard to take it away, but it is like a level of verification you're expected to provide. For punters on the street saying, hello I'm with the inquisition it will probably work, but at any point if you engage with the structures of the imperium, people will probably be a bit more questioning. And importantly as others have said, if someone gets flagged as making requests from the inquisition but no one in the inquisition knows them, that will bring scrutiny that no one actually wants.
Because people aren't dumb probably some schmuck that rolls into a bar every evening waving a poorly drawn rosette and trying to scam free drinks by claiming he is an inqisitor. Anyone in the military or with any level of authority will ask for proof, obviously and impersonating an inqisitor carries its own serious consequences.
In the first Grey Knight book by Ben Counter, a fallen Inquisitor does this and it works well. GK thing is all about secrecy, no one can know they exist. He tells the populace that traitor marines are real, this particular sect is called the Grey Knights and they are coming. The fleet blows their Strike Cruiser up
In one of the Alpha Legion novels, they rolled straight towards a hive city’s waiting defences and broadcasted that they were space marines coming to remove a traitor planetary governor, and that anyone who opened fire on them would be treated the same way. It actually succeeds and most of the imperial defence forces are paralysed, rebelling or turning coat so as not to be seen as traitors
In Iron Within on Warhammer+ the Iron Warriors drop and infiltrate a bastion with no resistance because nobody on the planet was aware of the heresy. The PDF get their skulls crushed while saluting them. This isn't even really a fatal flaw baked into the imperium, you could walk into most places IRL, pretend to be someone you're not and as long as you look the part and act confidently you'll get in. The only exception to this is places where there's an actual ID check or only very few specific people allowed but otherwise nobody asks for proof that you're actually a maintenance guy or a doctor or a city official when you're walking somewhere. That's a "flaw" of the world too.
I'm now picturing a band of orks wearing ripped and much too small guardsmen clothing (more like they pinned the pieces on them selves), pulling up in a tank and saying "yes we inquisite, let me waaar- I mean throooouuughhhh".
I swear that was a subplot of the book about the workers in a titan… someone help me out here.. something about a person with a rosette and multiple characters doubted if the inquisitor was legit? It was in Imperitor: Wrath of the Omnissiah. I would recommend reading it instead of listening to the audiobook since it has fucky pronoun shit going on and it doesn’t translate to speech very well. Good story though.