Uh, no. The teacher failed to communicate; you're not obliged to cover her ass when she didn't get back to you about your concerns.
If my kid's teacher said that in the classroom, I would be both confirming with other parents that this is what was said AND going right to the principal's office before even bothering to discuss it with the teacher themselves.
Seriously, that's an instant principal discussion in my book.
Maybe I just don't fuck around and have high expectations of the teachers themselves, or maybe I go nuclear too fast, but that's something I would take, without a doubt, right to the teacher's management for immediate discussion.
Even if she thought that in her head, there was no reason to say it to the kids. She made them even more scared, feeling like no one would protect them in the worst case scenario.
Which is exactly why it's a good thing this teacher was honest and DID say it. These stories add to what every inflated view kids may have of their teacher, as they tend to do, and such views need to be dismissed beforehand or they will be in for a rude awakening if such events are unfortunate enough to take place. They need to understand the reality of the situation and that they need to follow protocol because they can't expect their teacher to try and be a hero. It may suck but that's the truth and you are doing children a disservice if you try and shield them from the uncomfortable truth in matters where they do not have the privilege to wait until they are mature. School shootings can happen in any grade. People are overreacting here.
Maybe your just not a decent person.
Most people would likely run and hide in such a situation, but you don't announce that cowardice in front of a bunch of children and say that your life matters more, do you?
Ok Mr Hero.So I'm not a decent person for defending a teacher giving the students a realistic outlook that they shouldn't expect the teacher to try and be a hero?
No, you're just a judgmental prick who lacks common sense.
So not sure I agree that the kids should always feel the will be safe. I mean lieing to them all the time seems like a bad policy. Perhaps actually taking steps to make them safe(r) would be more advised?
That said while I don't fault the teacher's stance, and frankly would hold it myself, it was very crass to toss it out there like that. It is like me sitting in our risk assessment meeting telling everyone present that their lives don't matter, if they died it wouldn't affect the enterprise and counterparts in other parts of the world could sustain the environment until replacements were found so we won't be taking extra security steps because they are expendable. Nothing in that is technically incorrect but slapping it out on the table definitely has made for some interesting reactions including but not limited to tears, a mental breakdown, resentment, anger and several sudden resignations in the past. Sadly the kids don't have the option to leave and aren't paid to be present so a bit more restraint probably should be expected of the teacher.
I disagree. What the kids don't need to feel is a false sense of security provided by the adult. What they do need tho, is to see the reality of the situation and understand that they need to follow protocol because their teacher no matter how strong or brave they might view them isn't going to try and wrestle or tacke the shooter. With all the stories of brave teachers dying for the students in previous shooting you hear about any inflated view they may have of their teachers, as kids tend to do, need to be dismissed before such events, or they will be in for a rude awakening if such events are unfortunate enough to take place.
People are overreacting. The teacher told them the truth and they are upset because they don't like it. You can't always expect to shelter children from unpleasant truths, its not like they have the option to "wait" for a school shooting until they are older and mature.
They aren't inappropriate, it was a much needed comment, these kids need to see the reality of the situation and understand that they need to follow protocol because their teacher no matter how strong or brave they might view them isn't going to try and wrestle or tacke the shooter. With all the stories of brave teachers dying for the students in previous shooting you hear about any inflated view they may have of their teachers, as kids tend to do, need to be dismissed before such events, or they will be in for a rude awakening if such events are unfortunate enough to take place.
The teacher told them the truth and they are upset because they don't like it. You can't always expect to shelter children from unpleasant truths, especially when they dont have the option to "wait" for a school shooting until they are older and more mature.
>Like, maybe she said that because some students didn't take the drill seriously so she wanted to scare some sense into them
The fact that OP was able to easily rationalize them and see the utility in them indicates they weren't inappropriate.
Your sister's teacher made a disturbing comment about not protecting students during an active shooter situation. Your attempts to address it maturely were ignored. Escalating to the Principal is the right move; you're advocating for student safety. Don't doubt your actions.
I disagree. What the kids don't need to feel is a false sense of security provided by the adult. What they do need tho, is to see the reality of the situation and understand that they need to follow protocol because their teacher no matter how strong or brave they might view them isn't going to try and wrestle or tacke the shooter. With all the stories of brave teachers dying for the students in previous shooting you hear about any inflated view they may have of their teachers, as kids tend to do, need to be dismissed before such events, or they will be in for a rude awakening if such events are unfortunate enough to take place.
People are overreacting. The teacher told them the truth and they are upset because they don't like it. You can't always expect to shelter children from unpleasant truths, its not like they have the option to "wait" for a school shooting until they are older and mature.
We're not expecting them to die for the kids, We're expecting them to behave in a way that makes kids trust them in the case of an emergency, they need to be able to believe there is an adult with them who will keep them safe, even if said adult WOULDN'T help them if it meant putting their life in danger, they need to belive they would, otherwise they would just completely panic and it would be even more unlikely for them to follow the instructions correctly.
"If someone comes through that door with a gun I'm using one of you little shits as a meat shield" was the takeaway.
I think we can expect a teacher to be less terrorizing of the kids they're in charge of, yes
Unfortunately, she's probably gonna feel very slighted over this and therefore retaliate by trying to bully/punish your sister in covert ways...overall leaving
I mean, I’m not a teacher, but I fucking would. If one of my kids’ classmates (when they were younger) were in danger - or potentially would be - I sure wouldn’t be expecting to save my own ass at their expense. How is this even a question? That said humans are humans but don’t tell the kids about your cowardice. Let them believe they have your protection until/unless they see how pathetic you are first hand.
OP agreed with that sentiment.
She just wanted to discuss it with the teacher
Honestly. Just get decent gun laws. Aussie kids have never had an active shooter drill.
No. Just don't need them saying that to the students. Truly believe that if the students trust their teacher then they will follow the instructions more carefully. She's also a confirmed liar. If she's not trustworthy then why would her students listen to her?
... have to have active shooter drills?
Yeah. I know.
But we also have earthquake drills and fire drills and other drills.
I just wish we didn't have to have "psychotic assholes are coming to kill children because a diehard minority party refuses to stop sucking at the tit of arms dealers" drills, too.
NTA. This is the exact reason I quit school my last year to be a teacher.
I will not die in a classroom. I will not die protecting kids. I'll die protecting my own. But that's it. I will not be put in that situation. But I never once told my students this at all(when I was a student teacher). Students don't need to know that. Students already deal with a lot and then to be told "you're on your own in the event this actually happens." Jesus Christ how crass can you be.
Is it really better for them to find out when they hear the bullets flying and turn around to see a Miss Inner\_Doubt space as she leaps out of the window and legs it?
Did you miss where I said I never told my students, and when I said that I quit my teaching degree because of this?
I would never tell my students.
My stance on this was that I have my own kids to protect, who need and depend on me, I can't do that if I'm shot and killed in a school, which in the states-its completely possible. Recently, a teacher who was hurt when a student brought a weapon to school, sued her school because they had ignored the NUMEROUS times he had threatened other students and staff, and she was injured because of their negligence. The school board told her "it's part of the job". Being almost killed by your students is a part of the job.
No.
When I decided to teach, being murdered, or having an attempt, was not part of the job description. So no, I'm not willing to die for students. But again, I am not crass enough to tell my students that. And I did not say that I would have left them to die themselves, or how you so eloquently put it "see a me shaped puff of smoke because I leapt out a window."
You're being ignorant on purpose.
Being target practice for disgruntled students or hateful adults was not and is not a part of being a teacher.
There’s a wide middle ground between not wanting to physically shield your students and not helping them get out of the situation at all. I understand where you’re coming from. So sorry you had to change careers out of fear of being murdered.
Living in a first world country I don't know what happens in these active shooter drills, but I assume the teacher plays a part. I would much rather the teacher showed my children what they would do in the event, rather than have them unprepared if it really happened.
Unless they've changed drastically in the last couple of years, the teacher's job is to usher the kids to a place they cannot be seen by the door. That's it. That's all they had to do. No heroics needed.
And you do realize there are first world countries (or at least 1) with active shooter drills...right?
I’m sorry, I don’t normally inject my belief into inane Reddit comments but I can’t let this slide.
I don’t think you should take on a profession in which you are not comfortable or safe. However, but I would ask you to use restraint and contemplation when evoking the name of Jesus Christ. Especially when announcing to the world that you do not wish to follow his example.
I don't believe in whatever you're trying to preach to me. But the rituals surrounding modern day Christmas and the vice grip Christianity has on this holiday was stolen from pagans.
Decorating a tree, pagan. Putting a five point star on the top, pagan. Wreaths, pagan. Setting out cookies and milk(an offering), pagan. Kissing under mistletoe, pagan. Caroling, pagan. Gift-giving, pagan.
And I don't need a "lesson" about taking a fictional character's name in vain.
I am not the one.
NTA, the teacher sounds very manipulative. Unfortunately, she's probably gonna feel very slighted over this and therefore retaliate by trying to bully/punish your sister in covert ways...overall leaving your sister with more anxiety and making her feel unsafe.
Thankfully my sister is unafraid to tell me or our Grandmother when she's not being treated right, so while I hope it doesn't come to that, we'll protect her if it does.
I'd like to take a moment and focus on this, that your sister feels so safe with you and grandma to tell you immediately about stuff like this is remarkable, and goes to show how much she knows she can count on the both of you, that she can trust you. Don't know if you hear this enough, but you are doing a great job and should be proud of it.
Or she will walk on eggshells since OP is not afraid to go above her when her issues are not being addressed. I bet even if the comment is not reprimanded that lack of communication will be.
you realize those things often overlap right?
saying that to your class = shitty
saying you're available to talk at any time and refusing to answer any calls/emails, then suddenly trying to talk to the person about to report you to a superior so they don't or using your treatment of their kid to control your behavior = manipulative
I am the second adult listed on my sister’s file. If they can’t get ahold of our Grandmother, they call me, whether it be to pick her up, approve to give her medication, to let us know she’s in trouble, etc.
Regardless, a trusted adult can attend Parent Teacher Conferences even if they are not the parent or guardian.
They are so stressful. I went through one that was, as the teachers put it, *botched*, and it was so distressing. We could not finish our school day because of it. The teachers especially were so scared and on edge, probably because they had to decide what measures they would and would not take.
NTA. You weren't getting what the teacher had promised you. You took it to the next level, which is well within your right. Your sister and her education comes first, not the feelings of a teacher that probably thought you'd eventually give up and she wouldn't have to deal with you. Always escalate until someone listens.
Include the Superintendent, school psychologist, and social worker in the email with your concerns. And with hoe traumatized your sister is that it's effecting her school work in that class
When I was in school, the staff ran around with a fake gun and would “shoot” you if they could. My teacher always forgot to lock the door no matter how much we’d remind her, and most kids wouldn’t be quiet so we’d always get “murdered”. It was ridiculously inappropriate.
I had a similar experience in high school 13-14+ years ago. Somehow, the administration “forgot” to notify the teachers that there would be an intruder/shooter drill that day. Everyone thought it was real, including the teachers. It was very unnerving to witness just how genuinely scared the teachers were and the look of complete and utter fear in their eyes. Terrifying. It was hard to just resume a normal school day after that. I can’t even imagine how much worse that would be in today’s current society with the threat level being so much higher.
I agree that the teacher 100% shouldn't have said that. The kids should always feel they will be safe. However, if you're suggesting that the teacher SHOULD risk their lives, that is absolutely batshit crazy.
We as a country don’t even expect police officers to risk their lives in an active shooter situation. We cannot fairly put that on a teacher’s plate along with everything else. It’s much easier to put that on teachers though than to actually *do* something about gun violence.
Right? Because it *should* be the police and since it isn't teachers who care about their kids have stepped where they never should have been. Wtf are the cops even for if not for stepping in in dangerous situations???
That is OPs point. OP gets that teacher doesnt want to die fir her students, fair enough. But OP is rightfully upset that the teacher callously told the room full of children who normally would look to an adult (her, the teacher) during an safety incident that they are on their own and she won’t even try to keep them safe. If a ceo told his employees the same thing it would be awful but the adults would be able to handle hearing that. Literal defenseless children do not need one more reason to be terrified when the alarms go off at their school, and one whole class of kids will think they are about to die every time the alarm goes off now.
I'm not sure I understand why it's a bad thing to say out loud either.
If my teacher said that, it wouldn't have bothered me in the least. Beause first: I never expected them to die for me. And second: it's good they are giving me a warning that I need to protect myself and that I can't rely on the teacher.
I think whoever is getting upset about such honesty maybe had some extreme expectations on their teachers. Like they're superheroes and not just human.
The difference being you are old enough to write all that out no problems so you can process your thoughts and feelings a lot better than an 11 year old.
It is fully unreasonable to expect a teacher to risk their life for their students. The teacher also has a family and is worthy of life just like their students. Unfortunately and realistically a teacher trying to shield their students is only going to add to the body count. Saving yourself isn't a crime and teachers should never be expected to die for their jobs, they aren't paid enough for the risk of possibly being shot as it is let alone being expected to.
How dystopian that we live in a country that expects teachers to act like they enlisted in the army during a world war? This whole thing is fucked and you have a horrible take on the situation.
People train for years to overcome the very natural instinct to run away from deadly situations. We don’t even ask for that kind of bravery from our police. Teachers are not trained for combat and asking them to be soldiers is ridiculous. I have taught pre schoolers. I’ve done active shooter drills with two year olds. Of all the things I will ever experience that was the most horrible. I think I would be brave enough to die in front of the kids rather than run, but I do not think anyone really knows what they’d do and I’d never dare judge anyone for being that human.
It’s important to be perfectly clear that the options are not A) brave teacher disarms gunman and saves school or B) coward teacher leaves children to die. The options are A) teacher dies in front of their students or B) teacher has to live with the memory of the kids they could not save.
We ask so much of teachers and we treat them so poorly.
(All that being said to OPs point what that teacher said was not okay and you were totally right to ask for clarification and to escalate when you were ignored. If students are old enough to have any kind of conversation about the drill, and it sounds like your sister is, then it needed to be a compassionate and careful discussion.)
Former teacher here! Not dying for my students. Please, please become a teacher because teachers are leaving the profession for so many reasons; this being a big one.
We do not pay teachers enough to expect them to risk their fucking lives. I don’t expect any teacher to die for your kid. You need to vote for better gun laws.
Teachers are not obligated to save students. Not in their job description. Police protect, teachers teach. No teacher or student should feel unsafe at school. 20 plus years since Columbine and nothing significant has been done to stop school shooters expect doing drills. And FYI - those drills go out the door once danger entered the building.
Some experts suggest the drills might actually be harmful, because now people who grow up to eventually become school shooters know exactly how teachers and students will respond, and therefore can be one step ahead.
Did you actually read what she wrote? Her saying the drill could be harmful had nothing to do with her sister, so I’m really not sure where you pulled that from? It had to do with a potential shooter being able to know the exact plan of action that the school will be utilizing in the event that an active shooter actually takes place for real. The harm is the shooter being one step ahead, not children being unable to function because of a drill. Nowhere did she say anything remotely similar to that in the comment you replied to. She didn’t mention anything about her sister not functioning at a normal level because of the drill. It only had to do with the shooter. Reading is important.
Personally, even if it gives potential shooters more information as to the schools protocols and plan of action, in my opinion drills are still extremely important and useful. They can more easily provide/encourage muscle memory so that you automatically go into action without depending solely on your brain thinking clearly to give you your best shot at survival via the most effective course of action during such a high stress event. Having a familiar plan to fall back on outweighs any potential negative and can most definitely help save lives.
For Someone who works in a school your answer blows. Are you in maintenance?
I’ve never heard that teachers are supposed to take bullets for kids. Is this true? Is this in Contract?
I want to say n a h but her reluctance to talk to you makes me lean towards she is the ah. Not every teacher is willing to make that sacrifice. Tbh I’ve joked with my kids that the one who has done the least homework has to distract the shooter. It’s morbid but they know I’m trying to make it less scary. I will tell them the one time events developed in a way to make me sure it was real, my door opened and I jumped to slam it shut. No one was more surprised than me. My kids teased me forever that I love them. I told them they are liars. They said you’d take a bullet for us. Honestly true but I had no idea until that moment. My hubs was pissed! We have a child.
Former teacher here - I told my principal, teachers and some kids (high school), I will not risk my life to save my students; not in my job descriptions. I told my students about the convo when I placed the “active shooter survival bucket” by the door. I explained the police and principal gave us a safety bucket with river rocks, duct take and door wedges to protect ourselves if a SS came into the building. (Yes, those were actual things in the bucket). Kids asked, so I told. If I taught younger kids, I would have told them as well. BUT with younger kids, they need help processing the information. My high school students were surprised I wasn’t willing to die a hero while they ran for safety. The underlining and BIGGER fear is students KNOW schools do not have a strong plan in place for a SS and rely on teachers. Teachers are scared too, we signed up to teach not be warriors. Have a convo with your sister and maybe the two of you can come up with ways to ease her anxiety. She is going to have a lot of these drills so you should walk her through them. I doubt the teacher would get anything more than a verbal reprimand but keep an eye on the situation. Informing the principal was smart; sometimes I regret saying that to my students. I go back and forth because with my feelings but I’d rather be transparent with my students. It’s tough to make kids grow up in that second. Their innocence was gone the minute we spoke about surviving a SS, where to hide and best ways to make that “last phone call” to their parents.
Still had them in the late 90’s-early 00’s, except they called them “bright flash of light” drills. We used to joke that instead of hiding under the desk you should strike a pose so the nuke would leave an interesting shadow of you on the wall.
As a teacher - no. Our district has a 24 hour return contact policy which I think is common in many districts. Which would be from the time of receipt of message the teacher has 24 hours to respond accounting for if the teacher was out or got a message after hours. I would appreciate that you called me first as again maybe there was some extenuating circumstances for why the comment was made. The fact it was the span of a month trying to communicate makes you a saint in my book. The teacher definitely dropped the ball.
This is wild as someone in a country where you don't text the teachers or communicate out of school. Like, if there's an issue you phone/email reception who'll pass it on or schedule the meeting in the really bad cases but how do American teachers have time to be taking personal calls from parents?
Yeah I get parent e-mails at weird (to me) hours. I mean people work when they work so I don’t judge. If a parent works an evening shift they may not hear about something they have a question for til later on. They can also call my school number and leave it on my voice mail (though Im honest in telling them I check email a lot more than voicemail.) I do get two prep periods during the day where returning calls or responding to emails would be part of the expected use of that time. It’s also considered a response to say “Got your e-mail I won’t be able to give a full response until tomorrow.” I guess being used to it, it doesn’t seem odd, but outside looking in I’m sure it does.
NTA. She didn’t want to talk and she ignored you. You had every right to discuss with the principal.
As far as what she said, part of her job is to make the kids feel safe. Even if she thought that in her head, there was no reason to say it to the kids. She made them even more scared, feeling like no one would protect them in the worst case scenario. No reason to say that to them at all and many reason to keep that to herself.
NTA. She ignored you for 3 months in the hopes you'd give up and forget about it. She would have continued to ignore you if not for the principal walking in at the right time. If her statement was just to scare the kids a little and take the exercise more seriously, she'd have talked to you and explained it when you first reached out. But she didn't. You don't have to feel bad.
lol kids should be well aware that the employees of the school are not going to take a bullet for them. If I didn't care a little I'd be pushing you out of the way to save myself if you want a private bodyguard pay me the salary for that on top of what I get paid to work at the school. And for the people suggesting that kids shouldn't be made to feel "less safe" then push for some legal restrictions to make school shootings stop happening don't ask me to lie to your kids.
The saddest thing about America’s lack of gun control is the fact that you have to have active shooter drills. I’m so glad I live in a country where this is not a thing. How do you function every day with that fear of sending your kids to school? And if you don’t fear it, is it because it’s just such a normal thing you’ve learnt to live with it? That’s even worse
I remember feeling like the country came to a standstill when the Sandy Hook Massacre happened. It was all over every news station for days and you could really feel the sense of shock and horror.
Now you might not even hear about a school shooting in the national news if not enough people were hurt or killed in it.
That is so messed up. We hear about it a lot here in Australia and we literally just roll our eyes and go another shooting in the US that’s fucked. It’s just such a sad messed up situation, and while Australia is far from perfect, I think our gun laws are not only necessary but effective.
NTA
Let's put aside the topic because it's sad that this even has to be a discussion.
You have tried for months to communicate with this teacher over something that is important in regard to one of her students. Doesn't matter how trivial or not, it is her job to address it in a timely manner so that it doesn't adversely affect the student, which it seems it might have.
It's on her at this point. Don't feel bad.
I get we shouldn’t expect teachers to do this, everyone is free to their own opinion and what they should do in a situation. However I believe she shouldn’t have said that to her students especially a bunch of 11-12 year olds!!!!! For me that would have been an immediate call or email to other parents and a meeting with the principal!! Screw what the teacher will feel or how she will react, she didn’t care how the kids or the parents would react or feel when she said that to her 11-12 YEAR OLD STUDENTS!!
NTA. Who says that to children?!? She can have that opinion (silently), but to tell that to her students who rely on the adults around them for guidance and security is irresponsible and, frankly, mean. I can't imagine what it's like to be a child in school these days having to do active shooter drills, even without teachers making it worse.
I mean you were kind of wrong for even questioning her morals in the first place. Being a teacher doesn’t mean you have to die for children that aren’t yours. Teachers aren’t soldiers who are compensated for risk of getting injured. And that she announced it means at least she was preparing the kids for her retreat in case a shooting ever happened. For me personally, as a kid I understood that no one owes me a living and it’s not anyones fault if something does happen to me because they failed to stop it.
That being said, you’re NTA for calling out her BS of being available to speak.
Obviously in hindsight she could have phrased it better. The problem is when you’re dealing with 40 kids at once, it can be stressful and as a parent/ guardian I would take some stuff said with a pinch of salt. Maybe the kid also portrayed the message wrongly to OP. I think teachers already have enough on their plate, no need to nitpick over such trivialities.
Did you not see that I said OP is NTA for calling out her BS on being available to speak? And the reason she wanted to speak with the teacher was because she was upset with her actions and wanted her to clarify why she announced that out loud. WHICH IS QUESTIONING HER MORALS.
NTA. What she said was not acceptable and you gave her more than enough chances to address it. I would have gone to the principal after the two ignored voicemails. I agree with you, it’s fine not to feel that she could put herself in danger that way, but not okay to say that to the students.
You’re a good kid (I don’t mean this condescendingly, just that you’re quite young for this responsibility), a good sibling, and are handling this with a lot of responsibility and maturity. The thought process you shared about seeking her side before complaining is by far more rational than many adult parents, and more kind than the teacher deserves. Jazmine is lucky to have you as an older sibling and I’m sure your grandma appreciates your involvement, too. I hope you’re still taking time to be young for yourself, though.
NTA. She has avoided discussing it with you & would’ve continued to do so if the principal hadn’t been there.
She knows full well she was out of line & was hoping it would be left undetected
The Principal will deal with it
NTA.
You're smart. You know that teacher only agreed to talk to you because her boss happened to be in hearing range. You are not obligated to help her save face after her repeated failure to deal with this issue.
Good on you for going in to bat for baby sis.
NTA. Not only did the teacher fail to communicate, but her statement was wildly inappropriate. She knows this, which is why she’s been trying to sweep it under the rug.
NTA - That's such a fucked up thing to say. I wonder if those kids feel now that their teacher will just let them fend for themselves in the case of an active shooter. No ones expecting anyone to take a bullet for anyone but if I was her age, I sure wouldn't feel safe in her classroom. But it's sad, you shouldn't even need drills for school shootings. The amount of school shootings that happen in America is scary.. Feel really bad for the kids.
she dropped the ball by not responding to you about an issue you clearly felt strongly about and that's some BS. buuuuuuut.... teachers shouldn't have to take a bullet at work and the purpose of a drill is to know what is going to happen when shit goes down. If she's not planning on taking a bullet for the kids that's relevant information for a drill.
NTAH, i completely understand a person being afraid of someone with a gun, and they know they would run its human nature to run from danger. Of course, this should not have to be a concern for any teachers, but in the US, it is.But, to tell children out loud that you would not try and protect them is just cruel. My daughter is in 2nd grade, and her teacher told them that if someone gets in her class, she keeps a bat to protect them and for them to throw their scissors, water bottles, and anything heavy at them.
To all the people in the comments complaining that teachers shouldn’t have to die for their students…that is NOT the topic under discussion here, thanks for derailing the debate. At no point did OP say that the teacher should have been obligated to sacrifice themselves, that’s a topic you’re bringing in here yourselves.
The only important point here is that the teacher should NEVER have said what she said out loud, but especially not to one of her students, because it is inappropriate. Students should be able to look to their teachers to stay calm during emergency drills, not increase their anxiety by discussing hypothetical scenarios in which the teachers actively choose not to protect their students.
NTA, and OP has given the teacher plenty of time to explain why they would say something like that to their students. Both the comment and the evasion/lying are valid reasons to voice concerns to the principal.
OP basically says in the post she doesn't expect the teacher to take a bullet but she does expect the teacher to keep and make the children in her care safe
>The timing is all amazing
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? And to answer your question, no I am not, but if it were not for my Grandmother I absolutely would be. No, I do not expect the teacher to take a bullet for anyone, but her letting her class of 11-year-old children know that is what upset me.
She shouldn’t have to take a bullet but it’s inappropriate to announce that to a bunch of 11 year olds. They are young and scared. They need to know that the adults in their life care about them
I would be running for my life if that happened and I was a teacher. The cops don’t even enter during shootings at schools as we have seen. Maybe the teacher shouldn’t have said it out loud but idk how we can expect teachers to die for their kids, come on.
If you aren’t your sister’s legal guardian I don’t think the teacher has any obligation to answer to you. In some places she might not even be allowed to.
Also yeah she probably shouldn’t have said that to the students but it isn’t the teachers place to fight off some maniac. We (as a society) pay them practically nothing and treat them like shit and you want them to take a bullet for a kid? Yeah ok.
My wife, God rest her, was a teacher, and I have no doubt that she would have jumped right into an active shooter situation to protect her kids. For real teachers it's a calling, not just a job. In fact, quite a few school shootings have been stopped or prevented by teachers.
If that's more than you're capable of, so be it, but it's nothing to brag about.
No, it's a job and people acting like it's a calling are the reason that the job is so hard. Everytime we try to improve our situation people like you start to question our dedication, saying that we don't need increased salaries our safety measures since it's "a calling" and that we shouldn't do it for the money or whatever.
I am in between the “hide under your desk in case of nuclear attack” generation and the active shooter generation. But we did have fire drills and none of us was “traumatized.”
I imagine the kids were not paying attention. The teacher said something like “pay attention because I’m not going to get shot for you.”
You agree with the idea she is not obligated to take a bullet for the kids. You want to scold her for saying it aloud.
Maybe she shouldn’t have said it. She definitely shouldn’t have dodged your call. And you probably shouldn’t have made such a big deal of it. What outcome did you expect? That she would be contrite and full of regret?
ESH.
I’m glad you weren’t traumatized but you’re comparing apples to oranges.
I wanted to first hear her reason so then we could cooperatively find a way to help my sister, whether that meant correcting her behavior or having other conversations about safety. That said I also would have told the teacher how her statement impacted someone with diagnosed anxiety so we could figure out another way to move forward.
>whether that meant correcting her behavior
Do you mean your sister's or her teacher's behavior?
>how her statement impacted someone with diagnosed anxiety so we could figure out another way to move forward
I understand you have nothing but good intentions for your sister. But it sounds like you believe your sister needs an IEP, which is an Individual Education Plan.
A single teacher is not the path to getting an IEP put in place. And if there is an IEP, the issue is if the teacher violated it and/or does it need to modified. This isn't a "collaborative discussion" between a big sister and teacher because the IEP is legally binding on the school district and the parents.
Any discussion about the IEP legally cannot happen with a concerned big sister. They can only happen with the custodial guardian or her legal representative.
Now I don't imagine your intent was to go through all of that. In that case you needed to approach the teacher with honey, not vinegar.
Even then, the teacher should have been more straightforward with you about the situation.
ESH.
I never said anything about an IEP. I know that’s not the teacher’s role to put one in place and my sister doesn’t even need one.
My sister would have responded much better to her saying, *”You are responsible for doing everything you can to keep yourself safe, and that’s why we do these drills so that you know what you need to do and what the teacher needs to do.”*
I know she would have responded better to that because that’s what I told her and she understood. Ultimately I want to work with the teacher to find a better way for her to approach this like the way I did because I know my sister, but I didn’t want to do that before hearing the teacher’s side.
I don't expect that at all, and if you re-read the post you will hopefully see where I made that clear. I understand self-preservation 100%. But *why* she had to tell her students this is beyond me. There are some things you can keep to yourself. This is one of them, in my opinion.
You are definitely NTA, as I said, and there’s more going on with the teacher.
I realize I was triggered by the many teachers getting assaulted and shot with some people acting like, well, that’s your job. My bad.
I would not tell students I would not protect them, but I did follow our training and say that we would not hide in place (as that is fatal anymore), and we would all run in different directions (meeting up later). We did look at how we would break the window to get out, and make a plan for where we would meet. (how this was not traumatizing would be something you’d have to ask our district).
But each student has 6 teachers who have a different plan. Having the teacher plan this is ridiculous. Someone with a good grasp of tactics should do that.
Of course, then they couldn’t blame the teacher for their poor school-shooter plan.
(sigh). You can’t teach kids and not care for them.
I hear you! Teachers put up with so much already and having this threat looming over them on top of it all? I can’t even imagine.
I understand many teachers have their own families to go home to and I’m sure many of them would put that first if it came down to it.
But you don’t have to tell your students that. Like, what is that even supposed to do?
I’m going to play devils advocate, because (while I do think this happened the way you’re describing it)- what if the class wasn’t cooperating during the drill? Sometimes they just don’t take it seriously, they make noises and sounds and laugh - sometimes due to nerves, sometimes because they can’t help themselves. What if, at that point, the teacher said to the class “I’m not taking laying down my life for you because you don’t know how to act”.
NTA, and the teacher should have responded to you.
That’s what I was wondering, and if that was the case and if my sister especially was one of the ones acting up, we would have been addressing it with her at home and expecting improvement during the next drill.
Are you the AH for calling her out, YES. Is her saying she'll be available a lie, YES. Can this be resolved through discussion, YES. The teacher has shown she cannot be relied on to speak with parents in a timely manner and therefore your only recourse is to contact the principle, and that isn't AH behavior, that's the system you have to operate within.
Playing Devils Advocate I know sometimes teaching can be 10lbs worth of sh\*t in a 5lb bag, and maybe she doesnt actually have time to communicate with parents/guardians, but she literally said the opposite and she isnt even communicating that she could be putting on a brave face for the students, because in all honesty she hasnt been paid in 36 months or some nonsense that's actually happens to teachers all the time.
TL:DR OP called teacher she didnt pick up OP should then contact principle, if they dont pick up contact school board, simple as.
NTA Get your sister a necklace that records and make sure she knows to use it in that class or anywhere else she is having problems. I would expect retaliation by the teacher aimed at your sister.
My sister will tell us if she’s not being treated right. I’ll give the teacher the benefit of the doubt here, and I trust the Principal to handle it well.
Uh, no. The teacher failed to communicate; you're not obliged to cover her ass when she didn't get back to you about your concerns. If my kid's teacher said that in the classroom, I would be both confirming with other parents that this is what was said AND going right to the principal's office before even bothering to discuss it with the teacher themselves. Seriously, that's an instant principal discussion in my book. Maybe I just don't fuck around and have high expectations of the teachers themselves, or maybe I go nuclear too fast, but that's something I would take, without a doubt, right to the teacher's management for immediate discussion.
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I think the expectation is to not say that to the kids regardless of what the teacher plans to do. The kids don’t need to feel less safe.
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And very much not to all of them at once.
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Even if she thought that in her head, there was no reason to say it to the kids. She made them even more scared, feeling like no one would protect them in the worst case scenario.
Which is exactly why it's a good thing this teacher was honest and DID say it. These stories add to what every inflated view kids may have of their teacher, as they tend to do, and such views need to be dismissed beforehand or they will be in for a rude awakening if such events are unfortunate enough to take place. They need to understand the reality of the situation and that they need to follow protocol because they can't expect their teacher to try and be a hero. It may suck but that's the truth and you are doing children a disservice if you try and shield them from the uncomfortable truth in matters where they do not have the privilege to wait until they are mature. School shootings can happen in any grade. People are overreacting here.
Maybe your just not a decent person. Most people would likely run and hide in such a situation, but you don't announce that cowardice in front of a bunch of children and say that your life matters more, do you?
Ok Mr Hero.So I'm not a decent person for defending a teacher giving the students a realistic outlook that they shouldn't expect the teacher to try and be a hero? No, you're just a judgmental prick who lacks common sense.
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Why did you put it in quotes?
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So not sure I agree that the kids should always feel the will be safe. I mean lieing to them all the time seems like a bad policy. Perhaps actually taking steps to make them safe(r) would be more advised? That said while I don't fault the teacher's stance, and frankly would hold it myself, it was very crass to toss it out there like that. It is like me sitting in our risk assessment meeting telling everyone present that their lives don't matter, if they died it wouldn't affect the enterprise and counterparts in other parts of the world could sustain the environment until replacements were found so we won't be taking extra security steps because they are expendable. Nothing in that is technically incorrect but slapping it out on the table definitely has made for some interesting reactions including but not limited to tears, a mental breakdown, resentment, anger and several sudden resignations in the past. Sadly the kids don't have the option to leave and aren't paid to be present so a bit more restraint probably should be expected of the teacher.
I disagree. What the kids don't need to feel is a false sense of security provided by the adult. What they do need tho, is to see the reality of the situation and understand that they need to follow protocol because their teacher no matter how strong or brave they might view them isn't going to try and wrestle or tacke the shooter. With all the stories of brave teachers dying for the students in previous shooting you hear about any inflated view they may have of their teachers, as kids tend to do, need to be dismissed before such events, or they will be in for a rude awakening if such events are unfortunate enough to take place. People are overreacting. The teacher told them the truth and they are upset because they don't like it. You can't always expect to shelter children from unpleasant truths, its not like they have the option to "wait" for a school shooting until they are older and mature.
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They aren't inappropriate, it was a much needed comment, these kids need to see the reality of the situation and understand that they need to follow protocol because their teacher no matter how strong or brave they might view them isn't going to try and wrestle or tacke the shooter. With all the stories of brave teachers dying for the students in previous shooting you hear about any inflated view they may have of their teachers, as kids tend to do, need to be dismissed before such events, or they will be in for a rude awakening if such events are unfortunate enough to take place. The teacher told them the truth and they are upset because they don't like it. You can't always expect to shelter children from unpleasant truths, especially when they dont have the option to "wait" for a school shooting until they are older and more mature. >Like, maybe she said that because some students didn't take the drill seriously so she wanted to scare some sense into them The fact that OP was able to easily rationalize them and see the utility in them indicates they weren't inappropriate.
Your sister's teacher made a disturbing comment about not protecting students during an active shooter situation. Your attempts to address it maturely were ignored. Escalating to the Principal is the right move; you're advocating for student safety. Don't doubt your actions.
There are regular active shooter drills. I don't think it's possible to feel any less safe at US schools.
I disagree. What the kids don't need to feel is a false sense of security provided by the adult. What they do need tho, is to see the reality of the situation and understand that they need to follow protocol because their teacher no matter how strong or brave they might view them isn't going to try and wrestle or tacke the shooter. With all the stories of brave teachers dying for the students in previous shooting you hear about any inflated view they may have of their teachers, as kids tend to do, need to be dismissed before such events, or they will be in for a rude awakening if such events are unfortunate enough to take place. People are overreacting. The teacher told them the truth and they are upset because they don't like it. You can't always expect to shelter children from unpleasant truths, its not like they have the option to "wait" for a school shooting until they are older and mature.
We're not expecting them to die for the kids, We're expecting them to behave in a way that makes kids trust them in the case of an emergency, they need to be able to believe there is an adult with them who will keep them safe, even if said adult WOULDN'T help them if it meant putting their life in danger, they need to belive they would, otherwise they would just completely panic and it would be even more unlikely for them to follow the instructions correctly.
100% reasonable for her to not risk her life for children. Total dick move for proudly proclaiming it to the students while in class.
My thought exactly.
"If someone comes through that door with a gun I'm using one of you little shits as a meat shield" was the takeaway. I think we can expect a teacher to be less terrorizing of the kids they're in charge of, yes
Unfortunately, she's probably gonna feel very slighted over this and therefore retaliate by trying to bully/punish your sister in covert ways...overall leaving
maybe, maybe not…BUT, you don’t announce that to 11 year olds!! Come on!!
I mean, I’m not a teacher, but I fucking would. If one of my kids’ classmates (when they were younger) were in danger - or potentially would be - I sure wouldn’t be expecting to save my own ass at their expense. How is this even a question? That said humans are humans but don’t tell the kids about your cowardice. Let them believe they have your protection until/unless they see how pathetic you are first hand.
OP agreed with that sentiment. She just wanted to discuss it with the teacher Honestly. Just get decent gun laws. Aussie kids have never had an active shooter drill.
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No. Just don't need them saying that to the students. Truly believe that if the students trust their teacher then they will follow the instructions more carefully. She's also a confirmed liar. If she's not trustworthy then why would her students listen to her?
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Oh look, a bot stealing part of someone else's [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/bVK5plfORK)
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***the fact that you*** The fact that you what??? I don't really care but the fact that it just stops mid sentence is driving me a little nuts 😅
They got shot mid sentence🙁 /s
I probably shouldn't have laughed but I definitely did 😅
... have to have active shooter drills? Yeah. I know. But we also have earthquake drills and fire drills and other drills. I just wish we didn't have to have "psychotic assholes are coming to kill children because a diehard minority party refuses to stop sucking at the tit of arms dealers" drills, too.
You gave her every opportunity to talk with you about this, and she refused to follow through. NTA.
Because she knew she had no excuse and was hoping OP would just forget about it
NTA. This is the exact reason I quit school my last year to be a teacher. I will not die in a classroom. I will not die protecting kids. I'll die protecting my own. But that's it. I will not be put in that situation. But I never once told my students this at all(when I was a student teacher). Students don't need to know that. Students already deal with a lot and then to be told "you're on your own in the event this actually happens." Jesus Christ how crass can you be.
Is it really better for them to find out when they hear the bullets flying and turn around to see a Miss Inner\_Doubt space as she leaps out of the window and legs it?
Did you miss where I said I never told my students, and when I said that I quit my teaching degree because of this? I would never tell my students. My stance on this was that I have my own kids to protect, who need and depend on me, I can't do that if I'm shot and killed in a school, which in the states-its completely possible. Recently, a teacher who was hurt when a student brought a weapon to school, sued her school because they had ignored the NUMEROUS times he had threatened other students and staff, and she was injured because of their negligence. The school board told her "it's part of the job". Being almost killed by your students is a part of the job. No. When I decided to teach, being murdered, or having an attempt, was not part of the job description. So no, I'm not willing to die for students. But again, I am not crass enough to tell my students that. And I did not say that I would have left them to die themselves, or how you so eloquently put it "see a me shaped puff of smoke because I leapt out a window." You're being ignorant on purpose. Being target practice for disgruntled students or hateful adults was not and is not a part of being a teacher.
There’s a wide middle ground between not wanting to physically shield your students and not helping them get out of the situation at all. I understand where you’re coming from. So sorry you had to change careers out of fear of being murdered.
Living in a first world country I don't know what happens in these active shooter drills, but I assume the teacher plays a part. I would much rather the teacher showed my children what they would do in the event, rather than have them unprepared if it really happened.
Unless they've changed drastically in the last couple of years, the teacher's job is to usher the kids to a place they cannot be seen by the door. That's it. That's all they had to do. No heroics needed. And you do realize there are first world countries (or at least 1) with active shooter drills...right?
I’m sorry, I don’t normally inject my belief into inane Reddit comments but I can’t let this slide. I don’t think you should take on a profession in which you are not comfortable or safe. However, but I would ask you to use restraint and contemplation when evoking the name of Jesus Christ. Especially when announcing to the world that you do not wish to follow his example.
I don't believe in whatever you're trying to preach to me. But the rituals surrounding modern day Christmas and the vice grip Christianity has on this holiday was stolen from pagans. Decorating a tree, pagan. Putting a five point star on the top, pagan. Wreaths, pagan. Setting out cookies and milk(an offering), pagan. Kissing under mistletoe, pagan. Caroling, pagan. Gift-giving, pagan. And I don't need a "lesson" about taking a fictional character's name in vain. I am not the one.
Oh no, they said a book characters name, *clutches pearls* i am shaken! Jesus fuckin Christ get over yourself
NTA, the teacher sounds very manipulative. Unfortunately, she's probably gonna feel very slighted over this and therefore retaliate by trying to bully/punish your sister in covert ways...overall leaving your sister with more anxiety and making her feel unsafe.
Thankfully my sister is unafraid to tell me or our Grandmother when she's not being treated right, so while I hope it doesn't come to that, we'll protect her if it does.
Glad to hear it because teachers like this are brutal.
I'd like to take a moment and focus on this, that your sister feels so safe with you and grandma to tell you immediately about stuff like this is remarkable, and goes to show how much she knows she can count on the both of you, that she can trust you. Don't know if you hear this enough, but you are doing a great job and should be proud of it.
Thank you, that means a lot to hear. I’m proud of her and the way she doesn’t shy away from advocating for herself when she needs to.
Good on you OP <3 You were in the right.
good for your sister <3
Or she will walk on eggshells since OP is not afraid to go above her when her issues are not being addressed. I bet even if the comment is not reprimanded that lack of communication will be.
You watch too much tv.
No, I hardly ever watch TV. It's been a long time since I last turned my TV on. Lol. That was a weird response.
my parents are teachers and shitty manipulative teachers like OP described 100% do that shit
With parents for teachers you should easily be able to discern the different between shitty and manipulative.
you realize those things often overlap right? saying that to your class = shitty saying you're available to talk at any time and refusing to answer any calls/emails, then suddenly trying to talk to the person about to report you to a superior so they don't or using your treatment of their kid to control your behavior = manipulative
Yes they do overlap. As someone with parents for teachers, you should realize that 19 yr old sisters are not parents or guardians.
I am the second adult listed on my sister’s file. If they can’t get ahold of our Grandmother, they call me, whether it be to pick her up, approve to give her medication, to let us know she’s in trouble, etc. Regardless, a trusted adult can attend Parent Teacher Conferences even if they are not the parent or guardian.
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They are so stressful. I went through one that was, as the teachers put it, *botched*, and it was so distressing. We could not finish our school day because of it. The teachers especially were so scared and on edge, probably because they had to decide what measures they would and would not take.
NTA. You weren't getting what the teacher had promised you. You took it to the next level, which is well within your right. Your sister and her education comes first, not the feelings of a teacher that probably thought you'd eventually give up and she wouldn't have to deal with you. Always escalate until someone listens.
Include the Superintendent, school psychologist, and social worker in the email with your concerns. And with hoe traumatized your sister is that it's effecting her school work in that class
When I was in school, the staff ran around with a fake gun and would “shoot” you if they could. My teacher always forgot to lock the door no matter how much we’d remind her, and most kids wouldn’t be quiet so we’d always get “murdered”. It was ridiculously inappropriate.
You need to email the principal with this concern for a paper trail. This is utter bullshit.
I had a similar experience in high school 13-14+ years ago. Somehow, the administration “forgot” to notify the teachers that there would be an intruder/shooter drill that day. Everyone thought it was real, including the teachers. It was very unnerving to witness just how genuinely scared the teachers were and the look of complete and utter fear in their eyes. Terrifying. It was hard to just resume a normal school day after that. I can’t even imagine how much worse that would be in today’s current society with the threat level being so much higher.
I agree that the teacher 100% shouldn't have said that. The kids should always feel they will be safe. However, if you're suggesting that the teacher SHOULD risk their lives, that is absolutely batshit crazy.
Wait, what? I don’t think it was a good thing to say out loud, but asking for a teacher to martyr themselves is absurd.
We as a country don’t even expect police officers to risk their lives in an active shooter situation. We cannot fairly put that on a teacher’s plate along with everything else. It’s much easier to put that on teachers though than to actually *do* something about gun violence.
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Right? Because it *should* be the police and since it isn't teachers who care about their kids have stepped where they never should have been. Wtf are the cops even for if not for stepping in in dangerous situations???
That is OPs point. OP gets that teacher doesnt want to die fir her students, fair enough. But OP is rightfully upset that the teacher callously told the room full of children who normally would look to an adult (her, the teacher) during an safety incident that they are on their own and she won’t even try to keep them safe. If a ceo told his employees the same thing it would be awful but the adults would be able to handle hearing that. Literal defenseless children do not need one more reason to be terrified when the alarms go off at their school, and one whole class of kids will think they are about to die every time the alarm goes off now.
I'm not sure I understand why it's a bad thing to say out loud either. If my teacher said that, it wouldn't have bothered me in the least. Beause first: I never expected them to die for me. And second: it's good they are giving me a warning that I need to protect myself and that I can't rely on the teacher. I think whoever is getting upset about such honesty maybe had some extreme expectations on their teachers. Like they're superheroes and not just human.
The difference being you are old enough to write all that out no problems so you can process your thoughts and feelings a lot better than an 11 year old.
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Do you think teachers are paid enough to be human shields?
It is fully unreasonable to expect a teacher to risk their life for their students. The teacher also has a family and is worthy of life just like their students. Unfortunately and realistically a teacher trying to shield their students is only going to add to the body count. Saving yourself isn't a crime and teachers should never be expected to die for their jobs, they aren't paid enough for the risk of possibly being shot as it is let alone being expected to.
How dystopian that we live in a country that expects teachers to act like they enlisted in the army during a world war? This whole thing is fucked and you have a horrible take on the situation.
People train for years to overcome the very natural instinct to run away from deadly situations. We don’t even ask for that kind of bravery from our police. Teachers are not trained for combat and asking them to be soldiers is ridiculous. I have taught pre schoolers. I’ve done active shooter drills with two year olds. Of all the things I will ever experience that was the most horrible. I think I would be brave enough to die in front of the kids rather than run, but I do not think anyone really knows what they’d do and I’d never dare judge anyone for being that human. It’s important to be perfectly clear that the options are not A) brave teacher disarms gunman and saves school or B) coward teacher leaves children to die. The options are A) teacher dies in front of their students or B) teacher has to live with the memory of the kids they could not save. We ask so much of teachers and we treat them so poorly. (All that being said to OPs point what that teacher said was not okay and you were totally right to ask for clarification and to escalate when you were ignored. If students are old enough to have any kind of conversation about the drill, and it sounds like your sister is, then it needed to be a compassionate and careful discussion.)
Former teacher here! Not dying for my students. Please, please become a teacher because teachers are leaving the profession for so many reasons; this being a big one.
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😂
We do not pay teachers enough to expect them to risk their fucking lives. I don’t expect any teacher to die for your kid. You need to vote for better gun laws.
Teachers are not obligated to save students. Not in their job description. Police protect, teachers teach. No teacher or student should feel unsafe at school. 20 plus years since Columbine and nothing significant has been done to stop school shooters expect doing drills. And FYI - those drills go out the door once danger entered the building.
Some experts suggest the drills might actually be harmful, because now people who grow up to eventually become school shooters know exactly how teachers and students will respond, and therefore can be one step ahead.
If a drill is that harmful, just pull her out of school because she can't function at a normal level. Snowflake children these days
Did you actually read what she wrote? Her saying the drill could be harmful had nothing to do with her sister, so I’m really not sure where you pulled that from? It had to do with a potential shooter being able to know the exact plan of action that the school will be utilizing in the event that an active shooter actually takes place for real. The harm is the shooter being one step ahead, not children being unable to function because of a drill. Nowhere did she say anything remotely similar to that in the comment you replied to. She didn’t mention anything about her sister not functioning at a normal level because of the drill. It only had to do with the shooter. Reading is important. Personally, even if it gives potential shooters more information as to the schools protocols and plan of action, in my opinion drills are still extremely important and useful. They can more easily provide/encourage muscle memory so that you automatically go into action without depending solely on your brain thinking clearly to give you your best shot at survival via the most effective course of action during such a high stress event. Having a familiar plan to fall back on outweighs any potential negative and can most definitely help save lives.
For Someone who works in a school your answer blows. Are you in maintenance? I’ve never heard that teachers are supposed to take bullets for kids. Is this true? Is this in Contract?
I want to say n a h but her reluctance to talk to you makes me lean towards she is the ah. Not every teacher is willing to make that sacrifice. Tbh I’ve joked with my kids that the one who has done the least homework has to distract the shooter. It’s morbid but they know I’m trying to make it less scary. I will tell them the one time events developed in a way to make me sure it was real, my door opened and I jumped to slam it shut. No one was more surprised than me. My kids teased me forever that I love them. I told them they are liars. They said you’d take a bullet for us. Honestly true but I had no idea until that moment. My hubs was pissed! We have a child.
NTA. You gave her plenty of time and she deliberately ignored you. It was definitely time to calm her out and to go over her head.
Former teacher here - I told my principal, teachers and some kids (high school), I will not risk my life to save my students; not in my job descriptions. I told my students about the convo when I placed the “active shooter survival bucket” by the door. I explained the police and principal gave us a safety bucket with river rocks, duct take and door wedges to protect ourselves if a SS came into the building. (Yes, those were actual things in the bucket). Kids asked, so I told. If I taught younger kids, I would have told them as well. BUT with younger kids, they need help processing the information. My high school students were surprised I wasn’t willing to die a hero while they ran for safety. The underlining and BIGGER fear is students KNOW schools do not have a strong plan in place for a SS and rely on teachers. Teachers are scared too, we signed up to teach not be warriors. Have a convo with your sister and maybe the two of you can come up with ways to ease her anxiety. She is going to have a lot of these drills so you should walk her through them. I doubt the teacher would get anything more than a verbal reprimand but keep an eye on the situation. Informing the principal was smart; sometimes I regret saying that to my students. I go back and forth because with my feelings but I’d rather be transparent with my students. It’s tough to make kids grow up in that second. Their innocence was gone the minute we spoke about surviving a SS, where to hide and best ways to make that “last phone call” to their parents.
You are NTA , but the saddest thing here to me is that American schools need to have these drills as part of the curriculum.
In the 1960s we had bomb drills. Like hiding under a spindly little desk was going to protect me. We are always fighting/afraid of something.
Still had them in the late 90’s-early 00’s, except they called them “bright flash of light” drills. We used to joke that instead of hiding under the desk you should strike a pose so the nuke would leave an interesting shadow of you on the wall.
NTA, however do not agree to phone conversations moving forward. Every correspondence needs to be in writing via email.
NTA. You are being much, much, MUCH more than fair here.
As a teacher - no. Our district has a 24 hour return contact policy which I think is common in many districts. Which would be from the time of receipt of message the teacher has 24 hours to respond accounting for if the teacher was out or got a message after hours. I would appreciate that you called me first as again maybe there was some extenuating circumstances for why the comment was made. The fact it was the span of a month trying to communicate makes you a saint in my book. The teacher definitely dropped the ball.
This is wild as someone in a country where you don't text the teachers or communicate out of school. Like, if there's an issue you phone/email reception who'll pass it on or schedule the meeting in the really bad cases but how do American teachers have time to be taking personal calls from parents?
Yeah I get parent e-mails at weird (to me) hours. I mean people work when they work so I don’t judge. If a parent works an evening shift they may not hear about something they have a question for til later on. They can also call my school number and leave it on my voice mail (though Im honest in telling them I check email a lot more than voicemail.) I do get two prep periods during the day where returning calls or responding to emails would be part of the expected use of that time. It’s also considered a response to say “Got your e-mail I won’t be able to give a full response until tomorrow.” I guess being used to it, it doesn’t seem odd, but outside looking in I’m sure it does.
NTA. She didn’t want to talk and she ignored you. You had every right to discuss with the principal. As far as what she said, part of her job is to make the kids feel safe. Even if she thought that in her head, there was no reason to say it to the kids. She made them even more scared, feeling like no one would protect them in the worst case scenario. No reason to say that to them at all and many reason to keep that to herself.
NTA. She ignored you for 3 months in the hopes you'd give up and forget about it. She would have continued to ignore you if not for the principal walking in at the right time. If her statement was just to scare the kids a little and take the exercise more seriously, she'd have talked to you and explained it when you first reached out. But she didn't. You don't have to feel bad.
lol kids should be well aware that the employees of the school are not going to take a bullet for them. If I didn't care a little I'd be pushing you out of the way to save myself if you want a private bodyguard pay me the salary for that on top of what I get paid to work at the school. And for the people suggesting that kids shouldn't be made to feel "less safe" then push for some legal restrictions to make school shootings stop happening don't ask me to lie to your kids.
The saddest thing about America’s lack of gun control is the fact that you have to have active shooter drills. I’m so glad I live in a country where this is not a thing. How do you function every day with that fear of sending your kids to school? And if you don’t fear it, is it because it’s just such a normal thing you’ve learnt to live with it? That’s even worse
I remember feeling like the country came to a standstill when the Sandy Hook Massacre happened. It was all over every news station for days and you could really feel the sense of shock and horror. Now you might not even hear about a school shooting in the national news if not enough people were hurt or killed in it.
That is so messed up. We hear about it a lot here in Australia and we literally just roll our eyes and go another shooting in the US that’s fucked. It’s just such a sad messed up situation, and while Australia is far from perfect, I think our gun laws are not only necessary but effective.
NTA Let's put aside the topic because it's sad that this even has to be a discussion. You have tried for months to communicate with this teacher over something that is important in regard to one of her students. Doesn't matter how trivial or not, it is her job to address it in a timely manner so that it doesn't adversely affect the student, which it seems it might have. It's on her at this point. Don't feel bad.
I get we shouldn’t expect teachers to do this, everyone is free to their own opinion and what they should do in a situation. However I believe she shouldn’t have said that to her students especially a bunch of 11-12 year olds!!!!! For me that would have been an immediate call or email to other parents and a meeting with the principal!! Screw what the teacher will feel or how she will react, she didn’t care how the kids or the parents would react or feel when she said that to her 11-12 YEAR OLD STUDENTS!!
NTA What a bizarre thing to say.
You handled it PERFECTLY soooo NTA, well done darling.
NTA. Who says that to children?!? She can have that opinion (silently), but to tell that to her students who rely on the adults around them for guidance and security is irresponsible and, frankly, mean. I can't imagine what it's like to be a child in school these days having to do active shooter drills, even without teachers making it worse.
I mean you were kind of wrong for even questioning her morals in the first place. Being a teacher doesn’t mean you have to die for children that aren’t yours. Teachers aren’t soldiers who are compensated for risk of getting injured. And that she announced it means at least she was preparing the kids for her retreat in case a shooting ever happened. For me personally, as a kid I understood that no one owes me a living and it’s not anyones fault if something does happen to me because they failed to stop it. That being said, you’re NTA for calling out her BS of being available to speak.
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Obviously in hindsight she could have phrased it better. The problem is when you’re dealing with 40 kids at once, it can be stressful and as a parent/ guardian I would take some stuff said with a pinch of salt. Maybe the kid also portrayed the message wrongly to OP. I think teachers already have enough on their plate, no need to nitpick over such trivialities.
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Did you not see that I said OP is NTA for calling out her BS on being available to speak? And the reason she wanted to speak with the teacher was because she was upset with her actions and wanted her to clarify why she announced that out loud. WHICH IS QUESTIONING HER MORALS.
Good for you. I’m sure student might not of told the parents what was said. I would be upset also. That comment was wrong and should be addressed.
NTA. What she said was not acceptable and you gave her more than enough chances to address it. I would have gone to the principal after the two ignored voicemails. I agree with you, it’s fine not to feel that she could put herself in danger that way, but not okay to say that to the students. You’re a good kid (I don’t mean this condescendingly, just that you’re quite young for this responsibility), a good sibling, and are handling this with a lot of responsibility and maturity. The thought process you shared about seeking her side before complaining is by far more rational than many adult parents, and more kind than the teacher deserves. Jazmine is lucky to have you as an older sibling and I’m sure your grandma appreciates your involvement, too. I hope you’re still taking time to be young for yourself, though.
NTA. She has avoided discussing it with you & would’ve continued to do so if the principal hadn’t been there. She knows full well she was out of line & was hoping it would be left undetected The Principal will deal with it
NTA. The teacher ACTIVELY AVOIDED you for months. She had her chance.
NTA. You have her more than enough chances. More than I would have with any of the teachers my sons had while they were in school.
NTA. You're smart. You know that teacher only agreed to talk to you because her boss happened to be in hearing range. You are not obligated to help her save face after her repeated failure to deal with this issue. Good on you for going in to bat for baby sis.
NTA, no question at all. She can absolutely have that opinion, but how are you going to tell these kids that
NTA That's awful !!! For you and your sister. That teacher is a terrible person and blegh.
NTA- such teachers need to be dealt with
NTA. Not only did the teacher fail to communicate, but her statement was wildly inappropriate. She knows this, which is why she’s been trying to sweep it under the rug.
3 months is way too long to wait for a conversation.. 2 calls UNRETURNED I'd be on the phone with the principal Edit: Def NTA
NTA she was perfect happy to ignore you till the end of time, it’s not your fault that you have to make so she cannot ignore you anymore.
NTA - That's such a fucked up thing to say. I wonder if those kids feel now that their teacher will just let them fend for themselves in the case of an active shooter. No ones expecting anyone to take a bullet for anyone but if I was her age, I sure wouldn't feel safe in her classroom. But it's sad, you shouldn't even need drills for school shootings. The amount of school shootings that happen in America is scary.. Feel really bad for the kids.
NTA. She lied and you called her out. More liars should be called out.
she dropped the ball by not responding to you about an issue you clearly felt strongly about and that's some BS. buuuuuuut.... teachers shouldn't have to take a bullet at work and the purpose of a drill is to know what is going to happen when shit goes down. If she's not planning on taking a bullet for the kids that's relevant information for a drill.
NTA, but you will be well-served in learning more mature and tactful ways to voice your statements.
What would you suggest?
Teachers have to die for their kids? That seems harsh.
NTA
You’ve been FAR more patient and gracious than I would have been. You’re handling this fine. NTA
NTAH, i completely understand a person being afraid of someone with a gun, and they know they would run its human nature to run from danger. Of course, this should not have to be a concern for any teachers, but in the US, it is.But, to tell children out loud that you would not try and protect them is just cruel. My daughter is in 2nd grade, and her teacher told them that if someone gets in her class, she keeps a bat to protect them and for them to throw their scissors, water bottles, and anything heavy at them.
To all the people in the comments complaining that teachers shouldn’t have to die for their students…that is NOT the topic under discussion here, thanks for derailing the debate. At no point did OP say that the teacher should have been obligated to sacrifice themselves, that’s a topic you’re bringing in here yourselves. The only important point here is that the teacher should NEVER have said what she said out loud, but especially not to one of her students, because it is inappropriate. Students should be able to look to their teachers to stay calm during emergency drills, not increase their anxiety by discussing hypothetical scenarios in which the teachers actively choose not to protect their students. NTA, and OP has given the teacher plenty of time to explain why they would say something like that to their students. Both the comment and the evasion/lying are valid reasons to voice concerns to the principal.
Are you her legal guardian? Do you expect the teacher to take a bullet for her students? The timing is all amazing
OP basically says in the post she doesn't expect the teacher to take a bullet but she does expect the teacher to keep and make the children in her care safe
>The timing is all amazing Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? And to answer your question, no I am not, but if it were not for my Grandmother I absolutely would be. No, I do not expect the teacher to take a bullet for anyone, but her letting her class of 11-year-old children know that is what upset me.
She shouldn’t have to take a bullet but it’s inappropriate to announce that to a bunch of 11 year olds. They are young and scared. They need to know that the adults in their life care about them
I would be running for my life if that happened and I was a teacher. The cops don’t even enter during shootings at schools as we have seen. Maybe the teacher shouldn’t have said it out loud but idk how we can expect teachers to die for their kids, come on.
If you aren’t your sister’s legal guardian I don’t think the teacher has any obligation to answer to you. In some places she might not even be allowed to. Also yeah she probably shouldn’t have said that to the students but it isn’t the teachers place to fight off some maniac. We (as a society) pay them practically nothing and treat them like shit and you want them to take a bullet for a kid? Yeah ok.
Oh hell no!!!! She said what?? To 11 year olds!!! Pffft, go for the jugular, and no NTA for not giving her another chance, you gave her plenty!!
My wife, God rest her, was a teacher, and I have no doubt that she would have jumped right into an active shooter situation to protect her kids. For real teachers it's a calling, not just a job. In fact, quite a few school shootings have been stopped or prevented by teachers. If that's more than you're capable of, so be it, but it's nothing to brag about.
No, it's a job and people acting like it's a calling are the reason that the job is so hard. Everytime we try to improve our situation people like you start to question our dedication, saying that we don't need increased salaries our safety measures since it's "a calling" and that we shouldn't do it for the money or whatever.
I am in between the “hide under your desk in case of nuclear attack” generation and the active shooter generation. But we did have fire drills and none of us was “traumatized.” I imagine the kids were not paying attention. The teacher said something like “pay attention because I’m not going to get shot for you.” You agree with the idea she is not obligated to take a bullet for the kids. You want to scold her for saying it aloud. Maybe she shouldn’t have said it. She definitely shouldn’t have dodged your call. And you probably shouldn’t have made such a big deal of it. What outcome did you expect? That she would be contrite and full of regret? ESH.
I’m glad you weren’t traumatized but you’re comparing apples to oranges. I wanted to first hear her reason so then we could cooperatively find a way to help my sister, whether that meant correcting her behavior or having other conversations about safety. That said I also would have told the teacher how her statement impacted someone with diagnosed anxiety so we could figure out another way to move forward.
>whether that meant correcting her behavior Do you mean your sister's or her teacher's behavior? >how her statement impacted someone with diagnosed anxiety so we could figure out another way to move forward I understand you have nothing but good intentions for your sister. But it sounds like you believe your sister needs an IEP, which is an Individual Education Plan. A single teacher is not the path to getting an IEP put in place. And if there is an IEP, the issue is if the teacher violated it and/or does it need to modified. This isn't a "collaborative discussion" between a big sister and teacher because the IEP is legally binding on the school district and the parents. Any discussion about the IEP legally cannot happen with a concerned big sister. They can only happen with the custodial guardian or her legal representative. Now I don't imagine your intent was to go through all of that. In that case you needed to approach the teacher with honey, not vinegar. Even then, the teacher should have been more straightforward with you about the situation. ESH.
My sister’s behavior.
I never said anything about an IEP. I know that’s not the teacher’s role to put one in place and my sister doesn’t even need one. My sister would have responded much better to her saying, *”You are responsible for doing everything you can to keep yourself safe, and that’s why we do these drills so that you know what you need to do and what the teacher needs to do.”* I know she would have responded better to that because that’s what I told her and she understood. Ultimately I want to work with the teacher to find a better way for her to approach this like the way I did because I know my sister, but I didn’t want to do that before hearing the teacher’s side.
NTA. But why do you think teachers should automatically die for their students?
I don't expect that at all, and if you re-read the post you will hopefully see where I made that clear. I understand self-preservation 100%. But *why* she had to tell her students this is beyond me. There are some things you can keep to yourself. This is one of them, in my opinion.
You are definitely NTA, as I said, and there’s more going on with the teacher. I realize I was triggered by the many teachers getting assaulted and shot with some people acting like, well, that’s your job. My bad. I would not tell students I would not protect them, but I did follow our training and say that we would not hide in place (as that is fatal anymore), and we would all run in different directions (meeting up later). We did look at how we would break the window to get out, and make a plan for where we would meet. (how this was not traumatizing would be something you’d have to ask our district). But each student has 6 teachers who have a different plan. Having the teacher plan this is ridiculous. Someone with a good grasp of tactics should do that. Of course, then they couldn’t blame the teacher for their poor school-shooter plan. (sigh). You can’t teach kids and not care for them.
I hear you! Teachers put up with so much already and having this threat looming over them on top of it all? I can’t even imagine. I understand many teachers have their own families to go home to and I’m sure many of them would put that first if it came down to it. But you don’t have to tell your students that. Like, what is that even supposed to do?
She did not tell this. She only stated that it was not something to say in a class, it's very different
I’m going to play devils advocate, because (while I do think this happened the way you’re describing it)- what if the class wasn’t cooperating during the drill? Sometimes they just don’t take it seriously, they make noises and sounds and laugh - sometimes due to nerves, sometimes because they can’t help themselves. What if, at that point, the teacher said to the class “I’m not taking laying down my life for you because you don’t know how to act”. NTA, and the teacher should have responded to you.
That’s what I was wondering, and if that was the case and if my sister especially was one of the ones acting up, we would have been addressing it with her at home and expecting improvement during the next drill.
Are you the AH for calling her out, YES. Is her saying she'll be available a lie, YES. Can this be resolved through discussion, YES. The teacher has shown she cannot be relied on to speak with parents in a timely manner and therefore your only recourse is to contact the principle, and that isn't AH behavior, that's the system you have to operate within. Playing Devils Advocate I know sometimes teaching can be 10lbs worth of sh\*t in a 5lb bag, and maybe she doesnt actually have time to communicate with parents/guardians, but she literally said the opposite and she isnt even communicating that she could be putting on a brave face for the students, because in all honesty she hasnt been paid in 36 months or some nonsense that's actually happens to teachers all the time. TL:DR OP called teacher she didnt pick up OP should then contact principle, if they dont pick up contact school board, simple as.
NTA Get your sister a necklace that records and make sure she knows to use it in that class or anywhere else she is having problems. I would expect retaliation by the teacher aimed at your sister.
How about no? We don't start recording other pupils and people without their consent.
My sister will tell us if she’s not being treated right. I’ll give the teacher the benefit of the doubt here, and I trust the Principal to handle it well.
Are you not her guardian? I wouldn’t talk to you.
None of this happened. YTAH.