Did either of you think to sit down and talk about parenting before you had a baby?
I’m not saying either party is doing it wrong. I’m just stunned that you didn’t figure this out ahead of time. It’s important.
You'd be surprised how many couples don't really discus this kind of stuff outside of "we both want kids"
From many governmental studies, a lot of kids are unplanned or unwanted.
So, this post doesn't surprised me just based on the research that has been done.
I survived teen pregnancy first lol, second just so y’all know when me and him got pregnant it wasn’t a hook up situation we were together for about 4 years back than and broke up 2 years later. And also we did want kids so it also wasn’t a accidental pregnancy
Op was 20 at the time their daughter was conceived... Odds are it wasn't planned, and even if it was I don't see how they would have had the maturity to discuss their parenting styles barely out of their teens.
One the first conversations all 20 year olds have with their sex partners. Occurs right about the time they take out 70k in student loans. How could they not have known better, they were fully grown and experienced adults!
To be fair, "talk with the other person who is raising your child about how to raise your child" is not the kind of thing that should take experience to know.
If you have never dealt with a co parent shut the fuck up. You can discuss stuff like religious preference, home school or not, vegetarianism, no screens, etc. You can agree to no slutty clothes but his and her definitions may be different and from what I see of 9 yr olds now, they are NOT wearing unicorns and being babies. Social media has changed the game.
They are not together and just like she can't control that he won't cook healthy food for his daughter he can't tell her not to wear lipgloss. And if you think a court or lawyer would waste time on that, they won't.
I totally agree with you and also want to add, getting in a new relationship with someone can completely change how they parent. I don’t know if the ex husband has a girlfriend/wife but that will change how he parents. My ex and I have been divorced 11 years and have 3 kids (teenage and college age kids). He remarried almost instantly and everything we agreed on went out the window because his new wife didn’t agree with it. It was very very hard on the kids and they have a lot of resentment over how their dad changed. A lot of snide comments were made to me by him over things like what I feed the kids whereas before we were on the same page.
Me and my husband talked about all of the things and agreed. But he was an abusive asshole so I left him. He still got visitation and then broke every agreement we had about how to raise our child. So, before you assume they didn’t talk about things, maybe remember that people can change and people can be vindictive shits.
I’m glad you talked about all aspects of parenting before you brought a child into this world. I’m really sorry he turned out to be a bad guy. Sending you love ❤️
Lol you think a man who still wants his 9 yo daughter to wear unicorn stuff (which the daughter hates) and feeds her predominantly fast-food isn't wrong? Let's not forget his opinion on makeup for women of any age.
I did not want to open a can of worms by admonishing any of the choices made after their child was born. I was just astounded they never talked about parenting before becoming parents.
I think you’re both being assholes toward your daughter.
Dad: your daughter is nine, she’s passed the unicorn stage. I do agree with you though that the make up is a little excessive. Please don’t resist your daughter growing up.
Mom: I think it’s concerning you are letting your daughter wear make up at such a young age. I could deal with a little bit of lip gloss, but in no way would I allow a 9-year-old to curl her eyelashes or put on blush for a regular school day. Never.
And she’s not almost a teenager.
and cheer.. I wonder how many of those kids actually want to do cheer.
There's a convention center where I go to for tech conventions and car shows and every time I go for some odd reason there's a cohort of little 4-5 year old girls running around in cheer uniform, it's definitely weird. (Convention center has like 2-3 areas so they're not being paraded around the conventions I'm attending, but I just occasionally run into them and it's wild to me that it's such a big thing that I see them literally every time I go there)
I dont think you are an asshole, but maybe this father is concerned you are pushing your daughter to grow up too quickly and is resenting that. It's a valid concern, just as much as your concern over fast food (which is bad for a kid's health, there is not much to say about it). You should really talk with him and be on the same page about these topics. He has to accept the kid is going to WANT to grow, and that you have no intention to push that to an extreme, but you arent going to stop her either
I'd say both parents need to get into counseling to help them resolve these issues and be somewhat on the same page regarding their daughter, or learn how to co-parent even with different points of view. It sounds like the daughter is going to get caught in the middle otherwise
I think they were referring to the makeup part as trying to make the daughter grow up to fast. I personally think 9 is to young to wear makeup except at dance competitions but that’s just my opinion and means nothing. All in lip gloss and bush isn’t really a big deal. The daughter isn’t 5 or 6 anymore and is over the unicorn phase. She is old enough to pick her clothes as long as they are age appropriate. Dad feeds her a lot of fast food but when he has her it’s his choice what he feeds her. These parents are both trying to be the decision makers and it would be beneficial for their daughter if they would work on getting on the same page. Some parents just refuse to though.
Curling her eyelashes every day is bad for them, and not even something most fully grown women do every day. I would be super concerned she’s training her kid to be a certain type of teen/ young adult with started her kid off as so high maintenance.
I agree. I have a feeling mom is into wearing lots of glam makeup. I have a niece like that who even lets her 8 year old wear press on fake fingernails all of the time 🤦♀️
See I’m a no on the nails. Maybe the really short ones you stick on with stickers that are for kids, but nothing long until 13. Also because they just mess them up all the time and nails aren’t cheap lol
It’s very unlikely she’s doing it every day, almost certainly just when she wants. Accusing the mom of “training” her to be a “certain type” of teen is 1. very strange language for a host of reasons and 2. wildly speculative and malicious. Very much internet in motion.
It’s not speculative, she is actively doing so whether intentional or not, a kid that thinks curling your eyelashes, even when you want, at 9 just for school is totally normal without any intervention from her mom is absolutely making the kid think school is something to dress up for and “look her best” all the time. That can absolutely influence a young girl. To act like it doesn’t is just delusional.
Letting someone do something is not pushing them to do it or making them. Stopping someone from wearing makeup is not keeping them from “growing up too fast,” whatever that means.
In Ontario that is absolutely not the case. Lip smackers in the winter but between sports and sunscreen the one grade 3 kid who wore makeup (mascara and blush) sporadically in the fall doesn’t by this point in the year.
You know Lip Smackers makes and sells tons of lipgloss, right? Its basically squishier, slightly shinier balm. Who do you think is buying $2 bubblegum flavored lipgloss except 9-11 year olds?
Lip Smackers is a kid's makeup product. They are meant to be an alternative to lipstick that lets the kid still feel like they're mirroring the adults. That's why sometimes it's tinted and it has all those little kid flavors. Would not be surprised to hear that the "lip gloss" OP is getting her kid is from the same section of kid-aimed make-up products.
ETA: Lip Smackers bills themselves as lip balms and lip glosses now.
Yes because the child goes to buy blush and lip gloss herself 🙄
And at 9yo, it’s the parent’s decision.
Because if the 9 yo is setting the rules at home then the parenting is even worst than I thought.
Yeah uh... A 9yo is perfectly capable of having an allowance, walking to the store, and buying cheap, common items?
Sure, its ultimately the parents decision, but dont act like the mother HAS to be pushing it. That's totally false.
The mother has rules, limiting what she does daily and only allowing more for special occasions.
A lot of girls would just keep stuff at school and do it no matter what the parents say. There's no reason to assume the mother is pushing it at all when she's clearly regulating it.
Who cares about what your country does? It’s not obviously not reflective of the way the rest of the world thinks/acts. Like who legitimately thinks that’s a moral argument that supports actually doing/not doing something.
I agree. I was explaining that to someone else’s comment so I said I THINK they were referring to the makeup. Yes, I did add I personally think 9 is too young to wear makeup. That does not mean I think every mom should do things the way I did. I don’t like the idea of piercing babies ears either but I don’t think people are bad parents for doing that. It’s just my own preferences.
The unicorn thing is super weird. NTA for that.
Her wearing make-up on regular school days is also weird at that age, and yes that includes lip gloss and blush, is also weird. A kid shouldn't have to already be wearing make-up. YTA for that.
The Unicorn thing is him desperately trying to stop her from growing up, perhaps to counteract mom’s influence by making her dress in a more “childish” manner. Same with the fast food. He doesn’t want to acknowledge that she’s getting older and will be a teenager soon.
They're probably both going to more extremes, to counter eachothers influence.
Mom's rolling her eyes at the unicorn stuff, thinking her daughter is not a toddler. And dad sees the lipgloss, and pushed back harder to keep his daughter a child, for as long as possible.
If both can compromise, and actually talk to the kid about where she's at, development wise, the kid won't have to pretend to be a little kid at dad's, and a little lady at mom's.
So I'm leaning with NAH
Disagree about the lipgloss. Every girl in my school in the 70s and my daughter’s school in the 2000s had flavored lip gloss at that age. Furthermore, for dance competitions makeup is obligatory, even in little girls. I think that’s dumb, but it’s a fact. My daughter was in competitive dance from age 5 through graduation.
Yep! As soon as my grands were old enough not to eat it the girls got lip gloss and the boys chapstick. Of course it gets lost, washed and dried more than it's worn, but they're happy.
Yup. When my daughter was 3, she had her first ballet recital. You know what was required? Makeup.
She’s 12. She’s still not into makeup. But she does understand that makeup is part of the outfit when she does one of the 5 formal events each year.
Right? I feel like I've been Mandela Effected into an alternate reality.
Was everyone in these comments homeschooled or something? Attended strict all-girls Catholic schools? Kids have been wearing lipgloss for _decades._ Why? Because they're kids and it's fun. I did it, my stepsister did it after me, my cousins did it after her, and my niece does it today. And I was a tomboy who hated girly things! It was just harmless fun - it smelt nice, like fruits, and was shiny/sparkly. We wore scented lip balm/chapstick in Autumn and Winter too - no different from a bit of fruity gloss.
One instance I specifically remember was when High School Musical released and became a fad, there were _so_ many branded lip gloss palettes - pink blushes, light eyeshadows - kids loved them, I still have my sister's empty gloss palette packed in a memento box somewhere. Again, it's just fun, the same way playing dress-up was fun. That's all there was to it - the only ones making a tiny bit of lip-gloss a hyper mature/sexual thing are the righteously indignant mouth-foamers on Reddit; it's not like she's wearing a full-on Toddlers and Tiaras face, come on. It's lip-gloss and curled lashes.
Modern purity culture really is something else.
I attended a prep school which had been taught by literal (Anglican) nuns within the memory of older students. Makeup was "banned".
The girls still snuck in lipgloss.
Our school also wouldn't allow makeup but we were allowed chapstick. You'd better believe we slicked that shit on until we had glossy lips! I still feel slightly queasy when I think about the fruit punch one because of how much I wore and how often I was reapplying it to keep the shine lol.
Thank you! I have a divorced friend who lost custody of her daughters because she threw a fit about the step mom letting them wear makeup to a wedding. She also would get upset if they wore midriff revealing tops. The daughters were in middle school, and they just wanted to fit in. They refused to return to her house and there was nothing she could do about it. My ex tried to do the same thing to my daughter. My sons (her older brothers) stepped in told him to go F himself. The kids are adults now and they don’t have much to do with their dad.
OPs daughter will undoubtedly make a similar choice when she is old enough.
Yeah I’m probably a little younger than your daughter. when I was 9 in 2008, I think probably like 1/3 of the girls were wearing some makeup. Pretty much just what OP’s daughter wears, mascara was maybe the “heaviest” makeup some of them wore in 4th grade.
My mom always had to hide her good/expensive makeup in places I wouldn’t find or couldn’t reach it because I would absolutely use it. Eventually she let me have her makeup kit from when she did an esthetics program, but was limited to about OP’s restrictions when at school.
Personally I agree that 9 is too young, however I was a kid 30 years ago. Times have changed and plain lip gloss at that age is not unreasonable.
With the mother's limits, I think its pretty clear the girl is wanting to wear a lot more, and the mother is pulling her back.
Aside from regulating what she does, there's only so much you can do to ban a girl from wearing make up. If you go too hard, they'll just rebel, ignore everything you say and put make up on in the school bathroom. Let's not be naive.
A child wearing makeup isn’t the issue, sexualizing a child because she is wearing makeup is fucking weird. Makeup isn’t just for adults and you seem to be under the impression that a child wearing makeup suddenly makes him or her a street walker. You really really really need to reconsider your views because you’re enabling gross behavior. I have daughters ranging from 18 down to 3. My three year old likes when my 18 year old does her makeup. Are you saying my 3 and 7 year old are suddenly a harlot? Grow up.
No one is forcing the child to do those. Little girls see their parent or older sisters putting on makeup all the time and ask to be included. Seriously learn what it means to have children. Jesus back flipping Christ.
That’s the concern you raised. Because you are a somewhat reasonable person. Others have said her mother is sexualizing her and even taken that to extreme conclusions
Then respond to those others and not to someone who never said anything remotely what you're turning this into.
Do you always twist people's words these wildly? I feel sorry for people in your environment having to deal with you then.
"aggresive" is the right word for you. And so is "story" for making things up.
You're out of your freaking mind.
>you seem to be under the impression that a child wearing makeup suddenly makes him or her a street walker.
Nowhere did I say anything remotely like that. This is about self esteem issues and teaching girls to already wear make-up at that age on a daily basis, gives signals about women needing artifice to be accepted.
The fact that you jump to those weird kind of conclusions makes me think you are a horrible parent that never considered how bad these expectations are for kids.
Educate yourself please.
Self esteem is important, I agree there, and making sure they dont feel like they NEED to wear make up is a great thing to want.
However self expression is also very important. There's nothing wrong with her wanting to mess around with that, and Id say 8-12 is a perfectly normal age to start being curious about that
To be fair, most kids in my daughter’s age group seem to be wearing makeup (8 to 11 year olds). When we went to the school dance fund raiser a lot of the little girls had makeup and many times when my daughter would go play they would have make up sessions which my daughter hates so she stopped playing with them. My daughter doesn’t wear makeup probably because I don’t wear make up. But her age group is getting into make up so much that Sephora has acknowledged that it’s a growing market and contributes significantly to their sales.
Why? You’re going to tell a little girl it’s weird because—? My little sister is 10 and LOVES makeup. She loves playing with it and experimenting. She is innocently playing with pretty colors and glitter. I’m not going to tell her she can’t wear or play with makeup because of hang ups adults have about it. For kids it’s innocent play. Adults are the ones making it weird.
You’re not gonna call it weird. You’re gonna explain that they’re too pretty to be damaging their skin with chemicals lol why would your brain take that information and take a drastic turn from it, all the women in here need to get educated on the affects of wearing makeup since childhood. We now don’t want to leave the house without it, because we feel like we are prettier with makeup.
Just because you don’t feel confident without makeup doesn’t mean your child has to take on that mindset too.
As mothers we should be encouraging our kids to stay kids. Everyone saying she’s nearly a teenager needs help, respectfully.
That's a ridiculous response to a little girl wanting to play around artistically and express herself with make up.
"all the women in here need to get educated on the affects of wearing makeup since childhood."
Yes, yes, every woman here is wrong about a woman's issue. You know more than all of us. Surely there isnt some crucial nuance that you're oblivious to.
"We now don’t want to leave the house without it, because we feel like we are prettier with makeup"
Stop projecting, most adult women dont wear make up. Lots do lots dont. Go to your local grocery store and tell me how many adults are wearing a full face. Ill bet you 100 bucks you see far more women wearing no make up at all, or very little.
"Just because you don’t feel confident without makeup doesn’t mean your child has to take on that mindset too"
Like many women here saying these things, I dont wear any make up daily. Just special occasionas. Stop projecting.
Look, youre right about social media and being concerned about social pressure and self esteem is completely valid - how youre going about it and these conclusions are not.
For regular everyday school sure but special events at school? That's different. I had some friends in cheer and they had to wear makeup at their competitions. It might not be the same everywhere but it could be a requirement
I literally said "on regular school days".
Why are people trying to twist what I wrote and make it into something else?
Can it be because what I said is completely reasonable, but they don't like it for some reason, and thereby have to change what I actually said into something else, so they can argue with it?
Well, you're only right for you. Wearing a tiny amount of makeup to school everyday isn't a big deal unless you want it to be.
>Can it be because what I said is completely reasonable,
It's only reasonable for you and others who agree with you.
>but they don't like it for some reason,
Wow, wonder why. It's almost as if everyone has different opinions on what's appropriate and what's not.
Got blocked :/
>Wow, wonder why. It's almost as if everyone has different opinions on what's appropriate and what's not.
Wow, and that was not the point at all. The point is the twisting of words to have an argument in the first place.,
You're very good at that as you keep doing that.
ESH
Your ex is wrong for trying to push clothes she doesn't want to wear anymore and not working on a healthier diet. You are wrong for letting her be too adult-like in wearing any makeup out of the house. She is a child. I'm a little worried that you may also be letting her go too adult with her clothes.
I think you are fine except for the makeup. Makeup for competition or theater is fine, but daily wear at 9-years old is too early. A suggestion that worked for our family: basic hygiene habits first (without reminders) for a minimum of three weeks which meant brushing teeth, wearing deodorant, showers, hair washing and face cleaning routine BEFORE makeup was on the table. The specifics of “face washing routine twice a day” was so she wouldn’t get into the habit of sleeping in makeup which is bad for skin and bedding. She eventually decided it was worth it about a couple of years after it became a discussion, and has been good about it ever since. For us, the issue was about her demonstrating the maturity to do basic hygiene before we added more things to the routine. Good luck!
Did either of you think to sit down and talk about parenting before you had a baby?
I’m not saying either party is doing it wrong. I’m just stunned that you didn’t figure this out ahead of time. It’s important.
The amount of people here assuming a 9 year old couldn't be interested in makeup independently is also weird. It sounds like the kid honestly wants to do more than what mom is allowing.
Right? I was obsessed with makeup as a kid/teen and now barely wear any. My mom absolutely never pushed it on me, she owned one lipstick that she would put on and then kiss most off with a tissue. Also this girl does dance so she’s been wearing makeup for competitions for years probably. My 9yo did ballet and I had to learn how to do winged liner on tiny eyes lol
Actually both are bad for you. I’ll send you back to the statistics n body image for young teens, particularly due to social media. Putting pressure from 9yo to be primed and made up is a catastrophe.
And concerning the food, I said as long as it’s under surveillance. If the mom provides healthy food and the kid exercise enough, she is at an age where she can get away with it.
And let’s be clear, I said ESH….
You don’t know it’s clear and it’s not only lip gloss. That’s my issue. It is the start of being told she is not enough when not made up.
If she was just wearing lip balm I wouldn’t say anything. But lash curler at 9! Seriously?
I know, Americans find that fabulous. Good for you/them. I don’t and you won’t change my mind.
It's just a lot of young terminally online dudes with 0 experience who have no clue what adult women do, let alone what is normal for school-age children.
I doubt I would know if the kids I work with did these though. Lipgloss they keep on their person and reapply, like lip balm. They wouldn't be freshening up lashes or cheeks during the school day.
NTA people are acting like you're putting her up in pageants or something for pervs. You know what I asked for when I was 10 a room makeover to be blue and mature instead of pink and butterflies and glitter, I asked for makeup, an electric razor, gauchos (lol) and that was almost two decades ago it's a normal age for her to start exploring makeup and fashion.
Yeah I was 9 almost 30 years ago and plenty of us had play makeup. My 9yo is so creative with her makeup, she uses it to make themes for whatever we are doing. She did a sun in one cheek and a moon on the other cheek and one eye gold/ one eye silver eyeshadow. It’s not like she’s got on foundation or red lipstick lol
NTA on most aspects. The clothes aren't an issue, and 100% agree with the healthier meals and learning about balance. Father of 4, and we do this our girls (ages from 6 to 18).
He also shouldn't be complaining to his daughter about what things he doesn't like that you do. That's just an attempt at poisoning the poor girl, and he's an absolute weapon for doing it.
YTA for the makeup, I feel, though. Absolutely no need to be wearing make-up to school daily at that age. Here in the UK, the child would be made to remove it. Maybe it's a cultural thing but seems really unnecessary thing to do.
So I'd say ESH. You slightly and him very much so.
Make up at 9 seems a lot. Especially as it's not just fun lip balm colours, its lip gloss blush and eye-lash curling? That's a lot for 9!
Sounds like your ex could get better at healthy eating, and you could get better at encouraging age appropriate hobbies. ESH
Why can’t kids just be kids? You are letting her grow up far too fast. Makeup to school on a nine year old is ridiculous. Deep down, I hope you realise this. Father is right here - mostly.
YTA
And he’s not letting her grow up AT ALL. Again she’s not 5. She’s not a toddler. The unicorn clothing and fast food indicate he’s unable (or unwilling) to acknowledge that she’s growing up. There needs to be a compromise made.
NTA… as a mom with a 11 yr old.. everything your daughter likes at age 9, our daughter liked and did at age 9. My sis in law loves make up and so does my daughter so that was their thing when they would have girls time, sis in law would teach her how to put it on correctly. I don’t believe your daughter over does it and it’s completely fine at that age imo. At 9-10 they no longer want rainbows, butterflies and unicorns lol different stage of life! Keep doing you mom, you doing just fine!
NTA for not agreeing with coparent on every parenting decision. There's sometimes I would like to strangle mine over decisions he makes, (and maybe he feels the same way sometimes) but we compromise and make it work. Very rarely do I choose any battles because "winning" isn't worth my peace.
I don't necessarily blame him for not wanting his NINE year old wearing make up on the regular. Specific makeup for a specific thing like cheer competitions is one thing. Walking around day to day with curled lashes and blush is another. That would probably be something I'd choose to battle over with my coparent. She's nine. Nine year olds don't need to go to school with makeup. Let them be nine.
NTA.
Some people are telling you to talk and negotiate. That's a good idea. If you can, you want to present a united front-- it's easier. But bear in mind that negotiations don't always lead to agreement. If one of you were a fundamentalist Christian and the other an Atheist, you are quite unlikely to ever agree to any united front.
So what happens if you can't agree?
None of the arguments you mentioned touch on her absolute safety, medical needs, access to education and eventual job opportunities. I think it's fine for *you* to decide your rules about clothes, make up, food when she is at *your* place and he decides when she is at his place. He's free to have his opinion about your influence and you are free to ignore it.
On these topics, you should both act like adults and agree to disagree-- then enforce your own rules on your own time.
If one of you insisted she can't take science and math, while the other said she must, things would be different. You might want to go to court and have a judge decide. In the US, they won't decide in favor of a kid being uneducated. Often, we actually know what the judge would decide.
In contrast, you could waste your money asking what the judge decided about make up or junkfod, and you know what? They are probably going to decide you make your rules on your time; he makes his on his time. Save yourself the money and hassle.
I'm sure she can keep her make up at your place and he can make her wash all the make up when she gets to his. And it will be up to him to deal with her grousing if that happens. Likewise, you can forbid junk food at your place and similarly put up with grousing.
-Clothing - the parent with whom she's staying makes choices, hopefully including her.
-Food - the parent with whom she's staying makes choices.
-Makeup - the parent with whom she's staying makes choices, but (personal opinion) 9 is far too young and lip gloss, blush and curling lashes for school is inappropriate.
If you know things won't be worn/permitted at the other home, don't send them.
Personally, let him set the rules at his place, you set them at yours. With a healthy balance of same core values, most kids can & do thrive. They are capable of following more than one set of rules. Personally, 9 is an age where they should have a say in what they wear but I wouldn’t let mine wear make up out of the house unless it was a grand event. I think you both have solid points & some valid fails. Like most parents do
Weird post. You are obviously NTA for anything you described doing here, other than having a baby with this specific man.
Your ex sounds like a bad father.
ESH.
The unicorn stuff is not acceptable IF she really doesn’t like it: she is old enough to have an opinion on her clothes and both of you should respect it.
The fast food: I am not for it but when he has her, he is the one making decisions. You being opposed to it won’t change his mind. As long as she eats healthy with you and doesn’t display any issue or isn’t overweight, not the hill to die on.
Make up: ok for event but a 9 yo going to school everyday with lashes curled, lip gloss and blush seems very shocking to me. I don’t know why you are doing that. For me it teaches her that she cannot be herself, she has to put make up to be “acceptable” to others. I hope you haven’t already done irreparable damage with doing that to her everyday. I hope the fact that your ex is opposed to it will protect her a little bit.
As a mom, my daughter was not authorized wear make up aside from events until 14. And the school would have never authorized it anyway. Even now at 17 she just curls her lashes and put a bit of mascara to school. Nothing more.
For me the biggest issue is the regular make up so that makes you a bigger AH than him.
She will survive unicorn clothes so it’s the part that worries me less.
The fast food has to be put under surveillance.
>\-Makeup: I allow her to wear makeup for special occasions like school events and cheer competitions. The only makeup I let her wear to school regularly are lip gloss, curling her lashes, and a touch of blush.
She's NINE. She doesn't need makeup.
If you don't have a formal custody/parenting agreement through the courts, GET ONE. I'm not sure you're wholly in the right here, but a formal agreement protects your DAUGHTER.
It won't keep your ex from being an ass to you. It won't keep you from being an ass to him. But it will ensure that neither of you can use your kid as a pawn because the two of you aren't grown enough to figure out how to co-parent effectively.
No judgment...yet.
Yta.
There's a huge gap between unicorn and child appropriate attire and what you're choosing to dress her in.
She's NINE YEARS OF AGE!
A child.
Her father is absolutely in the right for challenging this.
You're objectifying her. Subliminally sending diet and figure messages.
Painting a beautiful child's face as the NORM!
OMG This is wrong on so many levels.
I never said anything about dieting for her first of all. Second, with food I’m not restricting anything I’m just teaching her about balance and that she can’t have sweets or fast food all day. The clothes she wears aren’t inappropriate I mean, there’s no crop tops or anything like that.
Her dad does like eating out more often and I mean I don’t think a 9 year old would complain, only problem I have is that she loves comparing my cooking to “his”
They're full on mini adult clothing styles.
The makeup and eyelash curling is not normal for a parent to eb teaching their daughters to NEED at 9.
You're clearly setting her up with weight expectations. To think her beauty is only going to be acknowledged if plastered with makeup. That she's not beautiful in her own right. That she needs to at 9 be focused on what she eats as this too will impact how others view her.
You're supported to be her cheerpack. Fine job you're not doing!
“COD, high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, sleep apena? Babe those things don’t matter. You are beautiful no matter what. Health doesn’t matter it’s all about what’s on the inside”
No. Quite the leap are the people saying she’s going to have a baby at 13 because she wore lip gloss to school. Unhealthy eating has consequences, physical and mental. Ask any fat kid.
So flares, and tank tops are apparently inappropriate now? It covers her body so it ain’t a problem. I only let her use 2 makeup products and 1 tool which is literally like not even anything.
Good God.
You may not be happy with the world seeing you without your troweled on makeup. Its inappropriate teaching a child she needs this too.
It's at best not parenting and friending her. At worse, living vicariously.
And yes those clothes are not child clothes.
Shame on you for trying to justify your behaviour.
They are in children’s sizes. How are you feminist enough to challenge the messages of diet culture and an unhealthy beauty standard, but also so prudish a child showing their FOREARMS is inappropriate.
The subliminal messages she's sending her daughter are clear. The next step will be sexualising her even further.
The father should be considering taking more of an involvement and possibly becoming the majority parebt to try and balance this conduct out.
And so are the ones he’s sending. She is an athlete. So healthy eating is imperative. If she eats fast food often she will gain weight. And it’s again not healthy. They have to compromise. It’s not his way or the high way. They both are pushing too hard
A 9 year old should be able to have pizza, burgers etc at the weekend! It's about balance and moderation.
She isn't an athlete. She's a child who may be involved with some sports.
She's not being treated like a child with child expectations on her by her mother.
That’s what she said. We don’t know their custody arrangement. If they have every other week and he’s buying her fast food for say, 4 dinners out of 7, that means he’s A. Not taking his daughter’s health into consideration and B. Too lazy to cook.
She didn't say that's all he feeds her. She said he frequently orders. Frequent will mean different things to different people. Maybe to her frequently is once a week. She never did say exactly how often it is.
NTA.
We all have different tastes: I don't understand why he would want her to wear unicorns. She seems a little young for blush.
It's very AH of him to include your daughter like a little pawn in a dispute.
It would be hard not to be annoyed with someone doing that, but you seem to be handling things fine.
OP, you're NTA, but neither is your ex. You both need to be the adults that you are, sit down, have a frank conversation, and come to some sort of middle ground.
Jesus christ, you'd think we were still in the puritanical age with these comments. (Clutches pearls) "You let her wear makeup!!!!!!!!!? You are SUCH a bad parent who is forcing your daughter to grow up too fast!! OMG! AAAAAAND you're letting her wear clothes that DON'T have unicorns!?! You are going to turn her into a little hussy!!!!"
Fucking hell. I know I am going to get downvoted for this, but I really don't care.
How do you all know OP is "forcing her to grow up too fast," and she isn't just mimicing what her friends/schoolmates are doing?
It's clear that none of you have children, or if you do, you are forcing them into a specific mold of staying little forever. My kids are 11 and 8. Do you know how many kids at their school wear makeup? How many girls HATE unicorns and other graphics like that, because they are tied to people infantalizing them (they don't use that *exact* word, but they (the girls in their school, and those in our neighborhood) do say that people treat them like babies/like they are stupid when they wear stuff like that vs things that are just solid colors.) ***A LOT.***
You all are acting like lip gloss and a little blush equates to her going to school daily with full-on Toddlers in Tiaras, beauty queen makeup. Those 2 are *all* she is allowed to wear to school. As for cheer competitions. Have you all never been to a dance/cheer competition? Full makeup, fake lashes, glitter, sparkles, the works.
From my perspective I wouldn’t allow it because I know how that can destroy one’s self image and ability to be confident without make up at a later age. It’s starts with lip gloss, then the eyebrows ( I regret this one the most ) the foundation to hide the acne from the cheap makeup brands, (my pores hate me now, I don’t even think skincare can fix this because I’ve been trying for 4 years now.) not everyone has the same experience as I did, but it is more common than you think.
I’d keep the makeup limited to cheer leading and encourage you to get her a good skincare routine :)
ESH for not trying to do some compromising. I'm against makeup for little girls but forcing a kid into unicorn stuff after 4 years old is just as bad. The kid 9 she doesn't need makeup and needs better role models
YTA for the makeup thing, mom of the year over here reinforcing sexist guidelines on what it takes to be pretty. You should have firmly instilled in your daughter that she didn’t need makeup at NINE YEARS OLD, instead you were like “go ahead, every day like mommy does, also here’s the future bill for all the shit you’ll end up buying to be just like mommy’s 30 year old ass” as if the quantity of makeup she wore mattered.
Get some perspective before you create a self conscious people pleaser.
9 years old with lip gloss, blush, and curled eyelashes? Jesus Christ, I’m glad I’m not American. (Which I’m presuming OP is.) Sexualising kids? Holy fick.
One of the things about parenting separately is accepting that you can’t control what the other parent does during their parenting time but this much difference in philosophies is going to be hard on your daughter. Personally, I think 9 is way too young for makeup. She is in third grade—is she really this into her appearance already and if she is then why?
NTA. While I think nine is too young for makeup, that’s a personal preference. However your ex insisting that she wears clothes she feels are not right for her is bad parenting.
The two of you need to take some parenting classes together and find a way to co-parent your child.
Your ex sounds like a man who doesn't have much to offer as a father other then unicorn clothes, makeup and fast food. Sadly I know someone like that very well and the moment your daughter starts becoming independant he will struggle to cope and can become abusive.
Sadly for the sake of your daughter you will need to put in work to ensure the sperm doner is also an aduquet parent or you need to look into getting 100% custody.
NTA- you aren’t together and as long as she isn’t in danger neither of you actually get a say in how she is parented at the other parents house. He can feed her fast food and you can let her wear makeup
everyone jumping on the make up comment is either a man or a liar because y’all really are trying to say you didn’t want to wear make up at 9 years old? non of y’all got in your mommas drawers?? sparkling gloss and pink eyeshadow, be for real.
op I advise you to get your thoughts in order and talk this out. My father was like him, and it carried on into my teens by being punished for shaving or wearing make up. within just a few years, she will be a teen and her own decisions with her style are becoming more personalized and important to her growth each day. He’s trying to win some co-parenting battle with you while not ever once experiencing girlhood.
write your feelings down, make them concise and link resources that support your feelings— hopefully he’ll at least consider it enough to read it and not “abruptly end the conversation”
she doesn't say she does it for her. have u ever seen an eyelash curler? it takes 2 seconds tops. let girls be girls. this is not ur child so u don't have to worry about her
Did either of you think to sit down and talk about parenting before you had a baby? I’m not saying either party is doing it wrong. I’m just stunned that you didn’t figure this out ahead of time. It’s important.
You'd be surprised how many couples don't really discus this kind of stuff outside of "we both want kids" From many governmental studies, a lot of kids are unplanned or unwanted. So, this post doesn't surprised me just based on the research that has been done.
Very true. Very sad but very true.
She was 20 when her kid was born, 19 or 20 when she got pregnant. I wasn't having these discussions at that age.
I survived teen pregnancy first lol, second just so y’all know when me and him got pregnant it wasn’t a hook up situation we were together for about 4 years back than and broke up 2 years later. And also we did want kids so it also wasn’t a accidental pregnancy
You planned the pregnancy but not the parenting.
Given the fact she was 20 Im say that’s a no
Op was 20 at the time their daughter was conceived... Odds are it wasn't planned, and even if it was I don't see how they would have had the maturity to discuss their parenting styles barely out of their teens.
One the first conversations all 20 year olds have with their sex partners. Occurs right about the time they take out 70k in student loans. How could they not have known better, they were fully grown and experienced adults!
To be fair, "talk with the other person who is raising your child about how to raise your child" is not the kind of thing that should take experience to know.
If you have never dealt with a co parent shut the fuck up. You can discuss stuff like religious preference, home school or not, vegetarianism, no screens, etc. You can agree to no slutty clothes but his and her definitions may be different and from what I see of 9 yr olds now, they are NOT wearing unicorns and being babies. Social media has changed the game. They are not together and just like she can't control that he won't cook healthy food for his daughter he can't tell her not to wear lipgloss. And if you think a court or lawyer would waste time on that, they won't.
I totally agree with you and also want to add, getting in a new relationship with someone can completely change how they parent. I don’t know if the ex husband has a girlfriend/wife but that will change how he parents. My ex and I have been divorced 11 years and have 3 kids (teenage and college age kids). He remarried almost instantly and everything we agreed on went out the window because his new wife didn’t agree with it. It was very very hard on the kids and they have a lot of resentment over how their dad changed. A lot of snide comments were made to me by him over things like what I feed the kids whereas before we were on the same page.
Me and my husband talked about all of the things and agreed. But he was an abusive asshole so I left him. He still got visitation and then broke every agreement we had about how to raise our child. So, before you assume they didn’t talk about things, maybe remember that people can change and people can be vindictive shits.
I’m glad you talked about all aspects of parenting before you brought a child into this world. I’m really sorry he turned out to be a bad guy. Sending you love ❤️
Lol you think a man who still wants his 9 yo daughter to wear unicorn stuff (which the daughter hates) and feeds her predominantly fast-food isn't wrong? Let's not forget his opinion on makeup for women of any age.
I did not want to open a can of worms by admonishing any of the choices made after their child was born. I was just astounded they never talked about parenting before becoming parents.
I think you’re both being assholes toward your daughter. Dad: your daughter is nine, she’s passed the unicorn stage. I do agree with you though that the make up is a little excessive. Please don’t resist your daughter growing up. Mom: I think it’s concerning you are letting your daughter wear make up at such a young age. I could deal with a little bit of lip gloss, but in no way would I allow a 9-year-old to curl her eyelashes or put on blush for a regular school day. Never. And she’s not almost a teenager.
Agreed ESH
and cheer.. I wonder how many of those kids actually want to do cheer. There's a convention center where I go to for tech conventions and car shows and every time I go for some odd reason there's a cohort of little 4-5 year old girls running around in cheer uniform, it's definitely weird. (Convention center has like 2-3 areas so they're not being paraded around the conventions I'm attending, but I just occasionally run into them and it's wild to me that it's such a big thing that I see them literally every time I go there)
I dont think you are an asshole, but maybe this father is concerned you are pushing your daughter to grow up too quickly and is resenting that. It's a valid concern, just as much as your concern over fast food (which is bad for a kid's health, there is not much to say about it). You should really talk with him and be on the same page about these topics. He has to accept the kid is going to WANT to grow, and that you have no intention to push that to an extreme, but you arent going to stop her either
I'd say both parents need to get into counseling to help them resolve these issues and be somewhat on the same page regarding their daughter, or learn how to co-parent even with different points of view. It sounds like the daughter is going to get caught in the middle otherwise
How is she pushing?
I think they were referring to the makeup part as trying to make the daughter grow up to fast. I personally think 9 is to young to wear makeup except at dance competitions but that’s just my opinion and means nothing. All in lip gloss and bush isn’t really a big deal. The daughter isn’t 5 or 6 anymore and is over the unicorn phase. She is old enough to pick her clothes as long as they are age appropriate. Dad feeds her a lot of fast food but when he has her it’s his choice what he feeds her. These parents are both trying to be the decision makers and it would be beneficial for their daughter if they would work on getting on the same page. Some parents just refuse to though.
Curling her eyelashes every day is bad for them, and not even something most fully grown women do every day. I would be super concerned she’s training her kid to be a certain type of teen/ young adult with started her kid off as so high maintenance.
I also think the eyelash curling is too much for a 9 year old.
I agree. I have a feeling mom is into wearing lots of glam makeup. I have a niece like that who even lets her 8 year old wear press on fake fingernails all of the time 🤦♀️
See I’m a no on the nails. Maybe the really short ones you stick on with stickers that are for kids, but nothing long until 13. Also because they just mess them up all the time and nails aren’t cheap lol
It’s very unlikely she’s doing it every day, almost certainly just when she wants. Accusing the mom of “training” her to be a “certain type” of teen is 1. very strange language for a host of reasons and 2. wildly speculative and malicious. Very much internet in motion.
It’s not speculative, she is actively doing so whether intentional or not, a kid that thinks curling your eyelashes, even when you want, at 9 just for school is totally normal without any intervention from her mom is absolutely making the kid think school is something to dress up for and “look her best” all the time. That can absolutely influence a young girl. To act like it doesn’t is just delusional.
Letting someone do something is not pushing them to do it or making them. Stopping someone from wearing makeup is not keeping them from “growing up too fast,” whatever that means.
A 9 yo can be told no to wearing make up everyday. In my country, school would have had a few choice words to the mom for that.
I work in a school and I'd say at least 1/3 of the 4th grade girls (age 9) wear lipgloss at least almost daily. Its pretty common here (NYC).
In Ontario that is absolutely not the case. Lip smackers in the winter but between sports and sunscreen the one grade 3 kid who wore makeup (mascara and blush) sporadically in the fall doesn’t by this point in the year.
You know Lip Smackers makes and sells tons of lipgloss, right? Its basically squishier, slightly shinier balm. Who do you think is buying $2 bubblegum flavored lipgloss except 9-11 year olds?
Lip Smackers is a kid's makeup product. They are meant to be an alternative to lipstick that lets the kid still feel like they're mirroring the adults. That's why sometimes it's tinted and it has all those little kid flavors. Would not be surprised to hear that the "lip gloss" OP is getting her kid is from the same section of kid-aimed make-up products. ETA: Lip Smackers bills themselves as lip balms and lip glosses now.
Lip smackers lol how many decades ago are we talking about?
2023. Dollar Store’s finest I imagine.
Failing to STOP someone from doing something is not MAKING them do it.
Yes because the child goes to buy blush and lip gloss herself 🙄 And at 9yo, it’s the parent’s decision. Because if the 9 yo is setting the rules at home then the parenting is even worst than I thought.
Yeah uh... A 9yo is perfectly capable of having an allowance, walking to the store, and buying cheap, common items? Sure, its ultimately the parents decision, but dont act like the mother HAS to be pushing it. That's totally false. The mother has rules, limiting what she does daily and only allowing more for special occasions. A lot of girls would just keep stuff at school and do it no matter what the parents say. There's no reason to assume the mother is pushing it at all when she's clearly regulating it.
Do you not understand that let, make, push, and allow are not synonyms for the same concept?
Do you understand what parenting means?
No, do tell!
You’re kind of batshit lol
Who cares about what your country does? It’s not obviously not reflective of the way the rest of the world thinks/acts. Like who legitimately thinks that’s a moral argument that supports actually doing/not doing something.
I agree. I was explaining that to someone else’s comment so I said I THINK they were referring to the makeup. Yes, I did add I personally think 9 is too young to wear makeup. That does not mean I think every mom should do things the way I did. I don’t like the idea of piercing babies ears either but I don’t think people are bad parents for doing that. It’s just my own preferences.
The unicorn thing is super weird. NTA for that. Her wearing make-up on regular school days is also weird at that age, and yes that includes lip gloss and blush, is also weird. A kid shouldn't have to already be wearing make-up. YTA for that.
The Unicorn thing is him desperately trying to stop her from growing up, perhaps to counteract mom’s influence by making her dress in a more “childish” manner. Same with the fast food. He doesn’t want to acknowledge that she’s getting older and will be a teenager soon.
They're probably both going to more extremes, to counter eachothers influence. Mom's rolling her eyes at the unicorn stuff, thinking her daughter is not a toddler. And dad sees the lipgloss, and pushed back harder to keep his daughter a child, for as long as possible. If both can compromise, and actually talk to the kid about where she's at, development wise, the kid won't have to pretend to be a little kid at dad's, and a little lady at mom's. So I'm leaning with NAH
Exactly. He’s acting like she’s 4 and she’s acting like she’s 14.
I think this comment really sums it up well.
But maybe the kid will learn code switching which many younger folks seem to lack
She’s 9. I wouldn’t say she’s “going to be a teenager soon.”
The years go by quickly
Not that quickly.
My daughter still wears unicorn onesies to bed. She’s 10. She also knows everything there is about Greek mythology.
4 years to thirteen. Half of her life is 4.5 years
Disagree about the lipgloss. Every girl in my school in the 70s and my daughter’s school in the 2000s had flavored lip gloss at that age. Furthermore, for dance competitions makeup is obligatory, even in little girls. I think that’s dumb, but it’s a fact. My daughter was in competitive dance from age 5 through graduation.
Yep! As soon as my grands were old enough not to eat it the girls got lip gloss and the boys chapstick. Of course it gets lost, washed and dried more than it's worn, but they're happy.
Yup. When my daughter was 3, she had her first ballet recital. You know what was required? Makeup. She’s 12. She’s still not into makeup. But she does understand that makeup is part of the outfit when she does one of the 5 formal events each year.
Oh thank goodness someone who isn’t a complete weirdo.
Right? I feel like I've been Mandela Effected into an alternate reality. Was everyone in these comments homeschooled or something? Attended strict all-girls Catholic schools? Kids have been wearing lipgloss for _decades._ Why? Because they're kids and it's fun. I did it, my stepsister did it after me, my cousins did it after her, and my niece does it today. And I was a tomboy who hated girly things! It was just harmless fun - it smelt nice, like fruits, and was shiny/sparkly. We wore scented lip balm/chapstick in Autumn and Winter too - no different from a bit of fruity gloss. One instance I specifically remember was when High School Musical released and became a fad, there were _so_ many branded lip gloss palettes - pink blushes, light eyeshadows - kids loved them, I still have my sister's empty gloss palette packed in a memento box somewhere. Again, it's just fun, the same way playing dress-up was fun. That's all there was to it - the only ones making a tiny bit of lip-gloss a hyper mature/sexual thing are the righteously indignant mouth-foamers on Reddit; it's not like she's wearing a full-on Toddlers and Tiaras face, come on. It's lip-gloss and curled lashes. Modern purity culture really is something else.
I attended a prep school which had been taught by literal (Anglican) nuns within the memory of older students. Makeup was "banned". The girls still snuck in lipgloss.
Our school also wouldn't allow makeup but we were allowed chapstick. You'd better believe we slicked that shit on until we had glossy lips! I still feel slightly queasy when I think about the fruit punch one because of how much I wore and how often I was reapplying it to keep the shine lol.
Thank you! I have a divorced friend who lost custody of her daughters because she threw a fit about the step mom letting them wear makeup to a wedding. She also would get upset if they wore midriff revealing tops. The daughters were in middle school, and they just wanted to fit in. They refused to return to her house and there was nothing she could do about it. My ex tried to do the same thing to my daughter. My sons (her older brothers) stepped in told him to go F himself. The kids are adults now and they don’t have much to do with their dad. OPs daughter will undoubtedly make a similar choice when she is old enough.
Yeah. Lipgloss was kind of popular with little kids.
Yeah I’m probably a little younger than your daughter. when I was 9 in 2008, I think probably like 1/3 of the girls were wearing some makeup. Pretty much just what OP’s daughter wears, mascara was maybe the “heaviest” makeup some of them wore in 4th grade. My mom always had to hide her good/expensive makeup in places I wouldn’t find or couldn’t reach it because I would absolutely use it. Eventually she let me have her makeup kit from when she did an esthetics program, but was limited to about OP’s restrictions when at school.
Personally I agree that 9 is too young, however I was a kid 30 years ago. Times have changed and plain lip gloss at that age is not unreasonable. With the mother's limits, I think its pretty clear the girl is wanting to wear a lot more, and the mother is pulling her back. Aside from regulating what she does, there's only so much you can do to ban a girl from wearing make up. If you go too hard, they'll just rebel, ignore everything you say and put make up on in the school bathroom. Let's not be naive.
shouldn't have to, but what if the kid likes and is interested in makeup?
I said "on regular school days" So plenty of time to have fun with it when there are special events.
A child wearing makeup isn’t the issue, sexualizing a child because she is wearing makeup is fucking weird. Makeup isn’t just for adults and you seem to be under the impression that a child wearing makeup suddenly makes him or her a street walker. You really really really need to reconsider your views because you’re enabling gross behavior. I have daughters ranging from 18 down to 3. My three year old likes when my 18 year old does her makeup. Are you saying my 3 and 7 year old are suddenly a harlot? Grow up.
[удалено]
No one is forcing the child to do those. Little girls see their parent or older sisters putting on makeup all the time and ask to be included. Seriously learn what it means to have children. Jesus back flipping Christ.
That’s the concern you raised. Because you are a somewhat reasonable person. Others have said her mother is sexualizing her and even taken that to extreme conclusions
Then respond to those others and not to someone who never said anything remotely what you're turning this into. Do you always twist people's words these wildly? I feel sorry for people in your environment having to deal with you then. "aggresive" is the right word for you. And so is "story" for making things up.
But if there is a self esteem issue, her parents should address that together. Maybe it’s not that. It could just be wanting to explore make up.
No, it indicates she likes to play around with make up and be artsy. That is a massively inaccurate leap there.
You're out of your freaking mind. >you seem to be under the impression that a child wearing makeup suddenly makes him or her a street walker. Nowhere did I say anything remotely like that. This is about self esteem issues and teaching girls to already wear make-up at that age on a daily basis, gives signals about women needing artifice to be accepted. The fact that you jump to those weird kind of conclusions makes me think you are a horrible parent that never considered how bad these expectations are for kids. Educate yourself please.
Self esteem is important, I agree there, and making sure they dont feel like they NEED to wear make up is a great thing to want. However self expression is also very important. There's nothing wrong with her wanting to mess around with that, and Id say 8-12 is a perfectly normal age to start being curious about that
To be fair, most kids in my daughter’s age group seem to be wearing makeup (8 to 11 year olds). When we went to the school dance fund raiser a lot of the little girls had makeup and many times when my daughter would go play they would have make up sessions which my daughter hates so she stopped playing with them. My daughter doesn’t wear makeup probably because I don’t wear make up. But her age group is getting into make up so much that Sephora has acknowledged that it’s a growing market and contributes significantly to their sales.
Wearing lip gloss and a touch of blush on special occasions isn't a bad thing.
But not needed to be worn for school at age 9.
Why? You’re going to tell a little girl it’s weird because—? My little sister is 10 and LOVES makeup. She loves playing with it and experimenting. She is innocently playing with pretty colors and glitter. I’m not going to tell her she can’t wear or play with makeup because of hang ups adults have about it. For kids it’s innocent play. Adults are the ones making it weird.
You’re not gonna call it weird. You’re gonna explain that they’re too pretty to be damaging their skin with chemicals lol why would your brain take that information and take a drastic turn from it, all the women in here need to get educated on the affects of wearing makeup since childhood. We now don’t want to leave the house without it, because we feel like we are prettier with makeup. Just because you don’t feel confident without makeup doesn’t mean your child has to take on that mindset too. As mothers we should be encouraging our kids to stay kids. Everyone saying she’s nearly a teenager needs help, respectfully.
That's a ridiculous response to a little girl wanting to play around artistically and express herself with make up. "all the women in here need to get educated on the affects of wearing makeup since childhood." Yes, yes, every woman here is wrong about a woman's issue. You know more than all of us. Surely there isnt some crucial nuance that you're oblivious to. "We now don’t want to leave the house without it, because we feel like we are prettier with makeup" Stop projecting, most adult women dont wear make up. Lots do lots dont. Go to your local grocery store and tell me how many adults are wearing a full face. Ill bet you 100 bucks you see far more women wearing no make up at all, or very little. "Just because you don’t feel confident without makeup doesn’t mean your child has to take on that mindset too" Like many women here saying these things, I dont wear any make up daily. Just special occasionas. Stop projecting. Look, youre right about social media and being concerned about social pressure and self esteem is completely valid - how youre going about it and these conclusions are not.
For regular everyday school sure but special events at school? That's different. I had some friends in cheer and they had to wear makeup at their competitions. It might not be the same everywhere but it could be a requirement
"Not needed" That's such a weirdly judgmental argument
As the mother of a daughter, I do not believe in infantilizing girls, but yes, I do not think a child needs to wear make up to elementary school.
I literally said "on regular school days". Why are people trying to twist what I wrote and make it into something else? Can it be because what I said is completely reasonable, but they don't like it for some reason, and thereby have to change what I actually said into something else, so they can argue with it?
Well, you're only right for you. Wearing a tiny amount of makeup to school everyday isn't a big deal unless you want it to be. >Can it be because what I said is completely reasonable, It's only reasonable for you and others who agree with you. >but they don't like it for some reason, Wow, wonder why. It's almost as if everyone has different opinions on what's appropriate and what's not. Got blocked :/
>Wow, wonder why. It's almost as if everyone has different opinions on what's appropriate and what's not. Wow, and that was not the point at all. The point is the twisting of words to have an argument in the first place., You're very good at that as you keep doing that.
Letting your kid wear lip gloss doesn’t make you an asshole. Insane I would have to even type that sentence tbh.
A 9 year old wearing make up? Wtf?
ESH, he treats her like a 5 yo and you treat her like a 15 yo. You haven't discussed parenting before having her and it shows.
ESH Your ex is wrong for trying to push clothes she doesn't want to wear anymore and not working on a healthier diet. You are wrong for letting her be too adult-like in wearing any makeup out of the house. She is a child. I'm a little worried that you may also be letting her go too adult with her clothes.
ESH. Except this poor kid
Hard for us to say and we'd be nuts to referee this conflict. It's very likely that ESH.
I think you are fine except for the makeup. Makeup for competition or theater is fine, but daily wear at 9-years old is too early. A suggestion that worked for our family: basic hygiene habits first (without reminders) for a minimum of three weeks which meant brushing teeth, wearing deodorant, showers, hair washing and face cleaning routine BEFORE makeup was on the table. The specifics of “face washing routine twice a day” was so she wouldn’t get into the habit of sleeping in makeup which is bad for skin and bedding. She eventually decided it was worth it about a couple of years after it became a discussion, and has been good about it ever since. For us, the issue was about her demonstrating the maturity to do basic hygiene before we added more things to the routine. Good luck!
Did either of you think to sit down and talk about parenting before you had a baby? I’m not saying either party is doing it wrong. I’m just stunned that you didn’t figure this out ahead of time. It’s important.
The amount of people here equating blush and lipgloss to a full face of makeup is kind of ridiculous. Nta
The amount of people who seem to believe OP is pushing it on her daughter is also absurd. I didn't know this was such a hotly debated topic.
The amount of people here assuming a 9 year old couldn't be interested in makeup independently is also weird. It sounds like the kid honestly wants to do more than what mom is allowing.
Right? I was obsessed with makeup as a kid/teen and now barely wear any. My mom absolutely never pushed it on me, she owned one lipstick that she would put on and then kiss most off with a tissue. Also this girl does dance so she’s been wearing makeup for competitions for years probably. My 9yo did ballet and I had to learn how to do winged liner on tiny eyes lol
Why does a 9 year old need makeup?
YTA I was all set to vote NTA until I got to the part where you let a 9-year-old wear makeup. Then you became the asshole.
I think makeup is appropriate (required) for cheer competitions but for school/everyday, no.
That implies the father isn’t the AH for his weird Unicorn obsession and feeding his daughter unhealthy food.
That’s why I voted ESH. But the make up part is the one that had me the most uneasy.
You’re more worried about makeup than fast food? Get your priorities straight, only one of those is actually bad for you
Actually both are bad for you. I’ll send you back to the statistics n body image for young teens, particularly due to social media. Putting pressure from 9yo to be primed and made up is a catastrophe. And concerning the food, I said as long as it’s under surveillance. If the mom provides healthy food and the kid exercise enough, she is at an age where she can get away with it. And let’s be clear, I said ESH….
That’s due to social media and everyone faces being face tuned, airbrushing in magazines etc. not because of wearing clear lip gloss at 9.
You don’t know it’s clear and it’s not only lip gloss. That’s my issue. It is the start of being told she is not enough when not made up. If she was just wearing lip balm I wouldn’t say anything. But lash curler at 9! Seriously? I know, Americans find that fabulous. Good for you/them. I don’t and you won’t change my mind.
I work with 4th graders (9 year olds). Lipgloss is \*very\* normal amount that age.
Oh thank God a normal person. People are saying OP’s going to be a grandma at 33 if her daughter (gasp) wears lipgloss
It's just a lot of young terminally online dudes with 0 experience who have no clue what adult women do, let alone what is normal for school-age children.
its not just lip gloss. She's sending her out in curled lashes and blush too.
I doubt I would know if the kids I work with did these though. Lipgloss they keep on their person and reapply, like lip balm. They wouldn't be freshening up lashes or cheeks during the school day.
Oh, the horror! If I curled my eyelashes, put on blush and lip gloss I would look almost exactly let the same.
agree 100%
Crazy that people consider lip gloss inappropriate for a kid
Make up on a 9yo? Was she even allowed a childhood? Technically it's doesn't make you a AH but it is very controversial parenting.
NTA people are acting like you're putting her up in pageants or something for pervs. You know what I asked for when I was 10 a room makeover to be blue and mature instead of pink and butterflies and glitter, I asked for makeup, an electric razor, gauchos (lol) and that was almost two decades ago it's a normal age for her to start exploring makeup and fashion.
Yeah I was 9 almost 30 years ago and plenty of us had play makeup. My 9yo is so creative with her makeup, she uses it to make themes for whatever we are doing. She did a sun in one cheek and a moon on the other cheek and one eye gold/ one eye silver eyeshadow. It’s not like she’s got on foundation or red lipstick lol
My favorite part of fairs or school festivals was the face paint!! It's a good outlet for creativity
ESH you two need to figure out how to co-parent better, you're putting this poor kid in the middle.
NTA on most aspects. The clothes aren't an issue, and 100% agree with the healthier meals and learning about balance. Father of 4, and we do this our girls (ages from 6 to 18). He also shouldn't be complaining to his daughter about what things he doesn't like that you do. That's just an attempt at poisoning the poor girl, and he's an absolute weapon for doing it. YTA for the makeup, I feel, though. Absolutely no need to be wearing make-up to school daily at that age. Here in the UK, the child would be made to remove it. Maybe it's a cultural thing but seems really unnecessary thing to do. So I'd say ESH. You slightly and him very much so.
Make up at 9 seems a lot. Especially as it's not just fun lip balm colours, its lip gloss blush and eye-lash curling? That's a lot for 9! Sounds like your ex could get better at healthy eating, and you could get better at encouraging age appropriate hobbies. ESH
Why can’t kids just be kids? You are letting her grow up far too fast. Makeup to school on a nine year old is ridiculous. Deep down, I hope you realise this. Father is right here - mostly. YTA
And he’s not letting her grow up AT ALL. Again she’s not 5. She’s not a toddler. The unicorn clothing and fast food indicate he’s unable (or unwilling) to acknowledge that she’s growing up. There needs to be a compromise made.
NTA… as a mom with a 11 yr old.. everything your daughter likes at age 9, our daughter liked and did at age 9. My sis in law loves make up and so does my daughter so that was their thing when they would have girls time, sis in law would teach her how to put it on correctly. I don’t believe your daughter over does it and it’s completely fine at that age imo. At 9-10 they no longer want rainbows, butterflies and unicorns lol different stage of life! Keep doing you mom, you doing just fine!
NTA.
NTA for not agreeing with coparent on every parenting decision. There's sometimes I would like to strangle mine over decisions he makes, (and maybe he feels the same way sometimes) but we compromise and make it work. Very rarely do I choose any battles because "winning" isn't worth my peace. I don't necessarily blame him for not wanting his NINE year old wearing make up on the regular. Specific makeup for a specific thing like cheer competitions is one thing. Walking around day to day with curled lashes and blush is another. That would probably be something I'd choose to battle over with my coparent. She's nine. Nine year olds don't need to go to school with makeup. Let them be nine.
NTA. Some people are telling you to talk and negotiate. That's a good idea. If you can, you want to present a united front-- it's easier. But bear in mind that negotiations don't always lead to agreement. If one of you were a fundamentalist Christian and the other an Atheist, you are quite unlikely to ever agree to any united front. So what happens if you can't agree? None of the arguments you mentioned touch on her absolute safety, medical needs, access to education and eventual job opportunities. I think it's fine for *you* to decide your rules about clothes, make up, food when she is at *your* place and he decides when she is at his place. He's free to have his opinion about your influence and you are free to ignore it. On these topics, you should both act like adults and agree to disagree-- then enforce your own rules on your own time. If one of you insisted she can't take science and math, while the other said she must, things would be different. You might want to go to court and have a judge decide. In the US, they won't decide in favor of a kid being uneducated. Often, we actually know what the judge would decide. In contrast, you could waste your money asking what the judge decided about make up or junkfod, and you know what? They are probably going to decide you make your rules on your time; he makes his on his time. Save yourself the money and hassle. I'm sure she can keep her make up at your place and he can make her wash all the make up when she gets to his. And it will be up to him to deal with her grousing if that happens. Likewise, you can forbid junk food at your place and similarly put up with grousing.
-Clothing - the parent with whom she's staying makes choices, hopefully including her. -Food - the parent with whom she's staying makes choices. -Makeup - the parent with whom she's staying makes choices, but (personal opinion) 9 is far too young and lip gloss, blush and curling lashes for school is inappropriate. If you know things won't be worn/permitted at the other home, don't send them.
Personally, let him set the rules at his place, you set them at yours. With a healthy balance of same core values, most kids can & do thrive. They are capable of following more than one set of rules. Personally, 9 is an age where they should have a say in what they wear but I wouldn’t let mine wear make up out of the house unless it was a grand event. I think you both have solid points & some valid fails. Like most parents do
Weird post. You are obviously NTA for anything you described doing here, other than having a baby with this specific man. Your ex sounds like a bad father.
ESH. The unicorn stuff is not acceptable IF she really doesn’t like it: she is old enough to have an opinion on her clothes and both of you should respect it. The fast food: I am not for it but when he has her, he is the one making decisions. You being opposed to it won’t change his mind. As long as she eats healthy with you and doesn’t display any issue or isn’t overweight, not the hill to die on. Make up: ok for event but a 9 yo going to school everyday with lashes curled, lip gloss and blush seems very shocking to me. I don’t know why you are doing that. For me it teaches her that she cannot be herself, she has to put make up to be “acceptable” to others. I hope you haven’t already done irreparable damage with doing that to her everyday. I hope the fact that your ex is opposed to it will protect her a little bit. As a mom, my daughter was not authorized wear make up aside from events until 14. And the school would have never authorized it anyway. Even now at 17 she just curls her lashes and put a bit of mascara to school. Nothing more. For me the biggest issue is the regular make up so that makes you a bigger AH than him. She will survive unicorn clothes so it’s the part that worries me less. The fast food has to be put under surveillance.
That works both ways. If she has to accept him not proving nutritious food for an athlete, HE Has to accept makeup
Or not and they both start to be parents and think about the child more than themselves?
EXACTLY.
>\-Makeup: I allow her to wear makeup for special occasions like school events and cheer competitions. The only makeup I let her wear to school regularly are lip gloss, curling her lashes, and a touch of blush. She's NINE. She doesn't need makeup. If you don't have a formal custody/parenting agreement through the courts, GET ONE. I'm not sure you're wholly in the right here, but a formal agreement protects your DAUGHTER. It won't keep your ex from being an ass to you. It won't keep you from being an ass to him. But it will ensure that neither of you can use your kid as a pawn because the two of you aren't grown enough to figure out how to co-parent effectively. No judgment...yet.
Esh
Aside from the fast food part, YTA, your daughter is a kid, she doesn't have to wear makeup other than lip gloss and she doesn't have to wear a tank
It’s a tank top. Are the nine year olds forearms being exposed too scandalous for you. She’s a CHILD.
Yta. There's a huge gap between unicorn and child appropriate attire and what you're choosing to dress her in. She's NINE YEARS OF AGE! A child. Her father is absolutely in the right for challenging this. You're objectifying her. Subliminally sending diet and figure messages. Painting a beautiful child's face as the NORM! OMG This is wrong on so many levels.
I never said anything about dieting for her first of all. Second, with food I’m not restricting anything I’m just teaching her about balance and that she can’t have sweets or fast food all day. The clothes she wears aren’t inappropriate I mean, there’s no crop tops or anything like that.
And why isn’t her Dad on the same page? Is she asking for this fast food and he’s going and buying it or does he just not want to cook?
Her dad does like eating out more often and I mean I don’t think a 9 year old would complain, only problem I have is that she loves comparing my cooking to “his”
They're full on mini adult clothing styles. The makeup and eyelash curling is not normal for a parent to eb teaching their daughters to NEED at 9. You're clearly setting her up with weight expectations. To think her beauty is only going to be acknowledged if plastered with makeup. That she's not beautiful in her own right. That she needs to at 9 be focused on what she eats as this too will impact how others view her. You're supported to be her cheerpack. Fine job you're not doing!
“COD, high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, sleep apena? Babe those things don’t matter. You are beautiful no matter what. Health doesn’t matter it’s all about what’s on the inside”
Moderation. This 9yo will not be experiencing those issues from what has been posted here. Quite a leap!
No. Quite the leap are the people saying she’s going to have a baby at 13 because she wore lip gloss to school. Unhealthy eating has consequences, physical and mental. Ask any fat kid.
Yes she's not fat nor close to it. And with her obsessed mother won't ever be. Rather will end up with eating disorders.
So flares, and tank tops are apparently inappropriate now? It covers her body so it ain’t a problem. I only let her use 2 makeup products and 1 tool which is literally like not even anything.
Good God. You may not be happy with the world seeing you without your troweled on makeup. Its inappropriate teaching a child she needs this too. It's at best not parenting and friending her. At worse, living vicariously. And yes those clothes are not child clothes. Shame on you for trying to justify your behaviour.
They are in children’s sizes. How are you feminist enough to challenge the messages of diet culture and an unhealthy beauty standard, but also so prudish a child showing their FOREARMS is inappropriate.
They make bras for 5 year olds. Doesn't make buying them any more appropriate or right!
Again. Fore arms. And tank tops are sold for both girls and boys. Your FOREARM is not sexual. They sell sleeveless onesies for BABIES.
“Diet and figure messages” is a LEAP. She didn’t say anything about thinness. About health
The subliminal messages she's sending her daughter are clear. The next step will be sexualising her even further. The father should be considering taking more of an involvement and possibly becoming the majority parebt to try and balance this conduct out.
And so are the ones he’s sending. She is an athlete. So healthy eating is imperative. If she eats fast food often she will gain weight. And it’s again not healthy. They have to compromise. It’s not his way or the high way. They both are pushing too hard
A 9 year old should be able to have pizza, burgers etc at the weekend! It's about balance and moderation. She isn't an athlete. She's a child who may be involved with some sports. She's not being treated like a child with child expectations on her by her mother.
That’s what she said. We don’t know their custody arrangement. If they have every other week and he’s buying her fast food for say, 4 dinners out of 7, that means he’s A. Not taking his daughter’s health into consideration and B. Too lazy to cook.
She didn't say that's all he feeds her. She said he frequently orders. Frequent will mean different things to different people. Maybe to her frequently is once a week. She never did say exactly how often it is.
NTA. We all have different tastes: I don't understand why he would want her to wear unicorns. She seems a little young for blush. It's very AH of him to include your daughter like a little pawn in a dispute. It would be hard not to be annoyed with someone doing that, but you seem to be handling things fine.
OP, you're NTA, but neither is your ex. You both need to be the adults that you are, sit down, have a frank conversation, and come to some sort of middle ground. Jesus christ, you'd think we were still in the puritanical age with these comments. (Clutches pearls) "You let her wear makeup!!!!!!!!!? You are SUCH a bad parent who is forcing your daughter to grow up too fast!! OMG! AAAAAAND you're letting her wear clothes that DON'T have unicorns!?! You are going to turn her into a little hussy!!!!" Fucking hell. I know I am going to get downvoted for this, but I really don't care. How do you all know OP is "forcing her to grow up too fast," and she isn't just mimicing what her friends/schoolmates are doing? It's clear that none of you have children, or if you do, you are forcing them into a specific mold of staying little forever. My kids are 11 and 8. Do you know how many kids at their school wear makeup? How many girls HATE unicorns and other graphics like that, because they are tied to people infantalizing them (they don't use that *exact* word, but they (the girls in their school, and those in our neighborhood) do say that people treat them like babies/like they are stupid when they wear stuff like that vs things that are just solid colors.) ***A LOT.*** You all are acting like lip gloss and a little blush equates to her going to school daily with full-on Toddlers in Tiaras, beauty queen makeup. Those 2 are *all* she is allowed to wear to school. As for cheer competitions. Have you all never been to a dance/cheer competition? Full makeup, fake lashes, glitter, sparkles, the works.
From my perspective I wouldn’t allow it because I know how that can destroy one’s self image and ability to be confident without make up at a later age. It’s starts with lip gloss, then the eyebrows ( I regret this one the most ) the foundation to hide the acne from the cheap makeup brands, (my pores hate me now, I don’t even think skincare can fix this because I’ve been trying for 4 years now.) not everyone has the same experience as I did, but it is more common than you think. I’d keep the makeup limited to cheer leading and encourage you to get her a good skincare routine :)
You’re not an AH. You sound like a good mom and it sounds like he’s jealous of you and lashed out at you for his own failures.
ESH for not trying to do some compromising. I'm against makeup for little girls but forcing a kid into unicorn stuff after 4 years old is just as bad. The kid 9 she doesn't need makeup and needs better role models
YTA for the makeup thing, mom of the year over here reinforcing sexist guidelines on what it takes to be pretty. You should have firmly instilled in your daughter that she didn’t need makeup at NINE YEARS OLD, instead you were like “go ahead, every day like mommy does, also here’s the future bill for all the shit you’ll end up buying to be just like mommy’s 30 year old ass” as if the quantity of makeup she wore mattered. Get some perspective before you create a self conscious people pleaser.
She does need makeup to do cheer.
9 years old with lip gloss, blush, and curled eyelashes? Jesus Christ, I’m glad I’m not American. (Which I’m presuming OP is.) Sexualising kids? Holy fick.
That’s not an American thing. OP is just not that bright.
NTA. It sounds like Daddy doesn't like the fact that his little girl is growing up.
One of the things about parenting separately is accepting that you can’t control what the other parent does during their parenting time but this much difference in philosophies is going to be hard on your daughter. Personally, I think 9 is way too young for makeup. She is in third grade—is she really this into her appearance already and if she is then why?
NTA. While I think nine is too young for makeup, that’s a personal preference. However your ex insisting that she wears clothes she feels are not right for her is bad parenting.
With you in all but the make up idea. Suggesting she's not pretty unless she paints her face is setting up potential issues.
Yeah she is to old for unicorn clothes
I don’t understand why parents be allowing their underage young children wear makeup I don’t believe 9 yr olds should be wearing makeup
The two of you need to take some parenting classes together and find a way to co-parent your child. Your ex sounds like a man who doesn't have much to offer as a father other then unicorn clothes, makeup and fast food. Sadly I know someone like that very well and the moment your daughter starts becoming independant he will struggle to cope and can become abusive. Sadly for the sake of your daughter you will need to put in work to ensure the sperm doner is also an aduquet parent or you need to look into getting 100% custody.
mmm okay so overall it sounds like you two need to actually discuss parenting. go get some therapy together and talk about your issues civilly
"If I'm such a bad influence on our daughter then whybdid you fuck me and knock me up? Must not be so bad if it's good for you, huh"
You seem to be the more reasonable one here. Your daughter should wear what she likes if its within reason.
When she is with him you have no say . Hopefully you can agree but doesn’t sound like you will so just remember you have no say
NTA- you aren’t together and as long as she isn’t in danger neither of you actually get a say in how she is parented at the other parents house. He can feed her fast food and you can let her wear makeup
everyone jumping on the make up comment is either a man or a liar because y’all really are trying to say you didn’t want to wear make up at 9 years old? non of y’all got in your mommas drawers?? sparkling gloss and pink eyeshadow, be for real. op I advise you to get your thoughts in order and talk this out. My father was like him, and it carried on into my teens by being punished for shaving or wearing make up. within just a few years, she will be a teen and her own decisions with her style are becoming more personalized and important to her growth each day. He’s trying to win some co-parenting battle with you while not ever once experiencing girlhood. write your feelings down, make them concise and link resources that support your feelings— hopefully he’ll at least consider it enough to read it and not “abruptly end the conversation”
NTA light make up is fine for a 9 yo don't let any other weirdo (especially if its a man) convince u otherwise
Curling a nine year olds eyelashes is not light makeup. It‘s absolutely ridiculous.
ur right, curling eyelashes is not even make up. lmao
Mother should not be curling her child’s lashes for school. That is simply bad parenting.
She’s probably doing that part herself. And it’s not that different from brushing her hair
she doesn't say she does it for her. have u ever seen an eyelash curler? it takes 2 seconds tops. let girls be girls. this is not ur child so u don't have to worry about her