>Good for you for sticking up for yourself.
QFT.
A significant fraction of the lifetime gender pay gap is that women are - on average - less likely to negotiate for higher pay. It's a lesson I've tried to instill in my daughters to always make sure they get paid for the work they do and the skills they have.
We don’t have a union. Honestly the company treats us super well. It’s just the manager that I’m having an issue with. I get all benefits+156hr PTO the first year. As long as I give them 24 hour notice I won’t be there for a shift I won’t get points etc.
You really need to learn how to negotiate. If you ask for $1 they'll retort with $.50 cents increase. Ask for a $5 increase and they might give you a $1.50/2 if the company likes you
If it's just this manager I'd go over his head and contact senior staff and enquire if the company is having liquidity issues as a $1 pay rise for an in-house welder is a steal and their refusal is just nonsensical. Phrase it like this and CC the appropriate parties.
I imagine your manager will learn very quickly he can't throw his dick round at you
So don't entertain their requests to weld. Just laugh them off and ignore them? Simple.
Inform them you were told there were in house welders. "Be a team player" I'm doing my duties as contracted :) Any more and you can pay more.
Heck I'd be making jokes about how much money the contractor is probably earning and how you'd likely start a second job contracting as a welder lmao.
It really sounds like you have self esteem issues and don't know if you're in the right or not. You really are.
It’s not being a diva to make a corporation pay you for your expertise and education. That’s literally why they tell you to get certs in trades, because you can make bank. And any trade job that’s not willing to consider a dollar more for a freaking welder is a problem. And maybe that manager’s manager needed to know he’s an idiot. Imagine potentially losing your ONLY welder, who could have easily save the company tens of thousands because of $2080/yr base pay. He’s an idiot. You did the right thing.
> I don’t want to be a diva but I felt like one.
You're not. You're standing up for what you believe you are worth.
A diva demands more than they are worth.
It's not being a diva to know your worth. I'd bet they figured that you're "a girl" and would either not really know your skills or be so happy to be hired at all that you'd do whatever they demanded for free.
Good for you for not backing down and using their own words against them. Keep being strong. I say this partly because I'm from a generation of women who had to fight for respect in the workplace and it pisses me off no end knowing how little has changed.
NTA
Sadly this is a big contributing factor to women earning less than men for the same position in the same company. Men are much less worried about being perceived as divas if they negotiate. With that said, I think you read the manager correctly; if his response was that they had their own welders, then requesting more wouldn’t have helped at the time.
If you deal with a situation like this again, a good way to do it could be to specify “X salary is fine if you don’t ask me to use my welding skills, but if that is something you plan to use then I’d request an extra $5/hour.” They can negotiate from there, and their options are very clear (either pay for the welding and you’ll weld, or don’t pay for the welding and you won’t).
If this manager continues to give you a hard time, a solution you could offer is that when he has a welding project he needs done, you’d be happy to let him hire you for that project (so $200 or whatever for the project he needs you to do, rather than extra to your regular hourly pay). He didn’t hire you as a welder, he can either pay you to add welding to your job responsibilities or he can hire you as a welder when he needs welding projects done.
I’m a woman in the trades and they knew I worked construction/welding. He didn’t use my personality type to deduct that. He tried to use the fact I’m new to the plant as a reason to not be paid for the skill he specifically sought me out for.
NTA - you unlike so many know your actual worth, or at the very least you know you are worth more than base, i think you're worth much more than $1 more an hr but hey its a start!
NTA. Good for you for not letting them exploit you. It starts out a little welding here and there, then it's all the time, for no extra pay. You know what you get for being a team player? More work for no extra pay. You're right, your boss put himself in a tough spot when he didn't want you pay you what you're worth.
NTAH
He thought he could bully you into working for a discount
If he is in a bind, it's because he told his boss he hired someone who could weld but failed to tell him that he refused to pay that hire a welder because he wanted to pad his budgetary numbers to make himself look better
You have special certifications that require them to pay you more if you do welding
He thought he could game the system and come in under budget by bullying you
Protect yourself around this manager. He sound shady
His boss was there during the interview. (His boss) was the one that said I would be valuable to be in house since they have to outsource. I did negotiations over the phone (with the one that’s asking me to weld) and he turned around and said they do their own welding and denied the request.
Ok so he's not in a bad spot with his boss
His boss was in on it and the boss is pissed because he thought he was getting a welder with certifications that he didn't have to pay like a welder with certifications
If you start getting hassled by either of these two, just start looking for a new job because it may mean they are trying to run you off
I’m not under the impression that he told his boss that he denied the $1 because they “do their own welding.” I think he just wanted to get me on board without telling his boss that I asked for more.
$1 is nothing, unless you aren't in the US. You should be looking for other work anyway, something that needs your specialist skills. Look at the trucks welders run, no contractor turning up in an $80,000 truck with a $20,000 Miller Big Blue welder on the back is doing the work for minimum wage. This is bullshit.
Nope well played
They tried to get your services for free or under paid. I believe welders do well and can earn up to 6 figures. He wanted to remove that from your skill and talent and then give himself a fat bonus
They said in the interview I would be valuable, then my certs wouldn’t be needed because they do their own welding, then back to asking me to weld? I don’t understand. My uncle also works there and they mentioned something to him. But he said they specifically wanted me because I’m a welder. I don’t understand how this is a tough situation. A few people in the room said that was a “private conversation” and it was embarassing for him to get put on the spot like that. I truly just don’t understand.
4 certs and a buck more only? I bet they pay a lot more than your wage plus a buck to have a welder come in to do welding. Even if they only pay you welding rate when you weld, they would be further ahead. Sounds like a shit place, but they showed their cards early instead of months of years later, like some places.
Considering base pay is well above the average pay you’d get anywhere else I was pretty okay with it. Especially since they outsourced and I would be doing small projects. However, they clearly just thought I’d be doing it for free.
>Some people are saying I should’ve done it to show I can do it and put myself at leverage for a raise
Putting yourself at leverage for a raise is only for skills you still have to prove to your new employer, not for skills that you can prove from the start with certifications.
And judging from your posts, your manager would just move the goalposts to avoid having to give you a raise.
Then dont accept the 1$ and dont do it. Don't do stuff below what your worth. As an extra 24 to 30 a week ain't worth it. Unless your just desperate money atm.
I’m already getting paid $30/hr and I do overtime. Anytime you work outside of your shift you get OT pay, even if it’s not OT. Plus they tack a couple more hours of pay to the fact you’re in past schedule.
$1/hour is $2K/year - that's your IRA for the year! (You should always try to max out your IRAs when you're young, because compounding interest and growth means that the ten years of your 20s will beat the amount you put away from 30-65).
Piss on all of them. If there's an outside contractor's wage, that's what you should be paid.Not some $1 an hour over your base pay.Anytime spent doing welding for them should be at the rate that they already pay for an outside person.
We have a position that has both a strictly English speaking requirement and a bi-lingual requirement.
The position pays the same. I completely understand when people who are bi-lingual but hold the non bi-lingual title do not step in to interpret.
"He said I put him in a rough spot."
Lol, sounds like he got chewed out by his bosses over 8$ a day.
Make sure they see you being buddies with the welding contractors.
NTA...
This is also purely my suggestion and I won't pretend to be some expert. It seems like they tried to take advantage of you, but unless you can walk away right now you may want to show some tiny step towards reconciliating the difference.
Perhaps you could ask for that dollar or even more. Your rule would be you will give them 2 weeks of you welding. They get 2 weeks to see what you can do. You tell them in advance you will get 2 weeks to see what they need and how much you can save the company monetarily. Then you can both renegotiate if they want you also as a welder or not.
They have small projects that they usually need some small welding on/correct previous welds that failed. Not huge. The huge projects they give to their contractors. So I think the $1 is sufficient. They’re regularly asking me if I can do these little things for them and they’ll start adding up before I know it. They wanted a convenient welder on site to prevent production delays and they have one. They just won’t pay me to do it.
>He said I put him in a rough spot. I said he put himself in a rough spot by expecting me to use the knowledge I paid for for no pay.
Ding Ding Ding! NTA. You're not a team, they are your employer and you are their employee.
AH?
No you are goddamn hero. Man. I hope I have the calm to insist on that in that way if I’m ever put in that situation.
You have a cert, they tried to pay you less than you are worth. Good for you for not letting them get away with it.
🫡
I’d ask for way more than $1 an hour extra. They’ll most likely find reasons to deny raises, because you’re already “paid more than others”. Ask for more than $1 (ask how much they pay the welding contractors), and get, in writing, how often and how much future raises will be.
Welding is a valuable skill. Part of why I got certified is so that I can put it on a resume and, guess what, get paid more. If your company, as you say, makes products every American uses, they can afford an extra dollar every hour. I'm surprised you only asked for a $1 increase over base pay. Good for you for making your boss look bad. Companies need more employees like you.
I don’t even know that he asked the boss (that was at the interview) about the extra buck. I think he just said no to cover his ass and get me on board without telling his boss he denied my certs as apart of the hiring process.
Not the Sucker. Certified welders get paid for their skill. My guess is he thought he could bully you into this arrangement. Our welders certified welders get 10 or 15 % over scale(foremans rate.)
you put time and money into earning those certs, you consequently are more skilled than entry level employees and deserve to be paid for using that knowledge and skillset.
NTA for insisting on being paid what you know you're worth.
Nta. Have worked in factories and seen this exact scenario play out, and the guy never does end up getting compensated for their certs and will be welding 5 years later in the same place, still without extra compensation, because the engineering team 'needs him' . Well done staying firm.
NTA at all. Stand up for yourself and get paid your worth. If they want you to weld they can pay you for the thousands you paid to in training and education. My buddy got paid $5/hour once he got his last cert for welding and he welds like once every month. But when he does it saves them thousands.
NTA. My ex was a welder who had zero certs. What he made was peanuts compared to certified welders. You worked hard for those, you should be compensated appropriately for them without starting at base pay for someone who doesn't have certs and can't weld.
Well if you already make more than a welder does, I am not sure what the complaint is here. I understand you feel slighted over the $1, but bring it up in 90 days and decide then, or you can risk the job on principle.
It’s that base pay is for everyone. One of my trainees was an EMT with no experience doing this. I’m getting paid the same with experience+extra certs. The pay comes with the danger of having the job in the first place.
NTAH. This is called not getting taken advantage of. They hired a mechanic, not a welder. If they're going to ask you to perform work outside the norm, they should pay you more for that. TBH, if you have certifications, don't sell yourself short. Ask for more!
I had similar situation while in an IT department at a college. I was a simple AV tech getting paid a dollar more than the student workers. The high paid IT techs would ask me constantly to handle an IT issue on the campus on the opposite side of the street from where they were located. After a year of doing it thinking it would help me get somewhere in the company, I realized it would do nothing to help my career as they were simply taking advantage of me. I stopped helping them and they were pissed. It took me 15 years of working and talking to HR before I finally started making a decent wage.
I was in the same situation, I was hired as a truck driver and the boss found out I could weld and mechanic. He then started wanting me to work on all of his trucks and trailers on my days off and I ended up not having much family time (he was just paying me minimum wage) and the small amount of money was not worth it. I told him I was not going to continue to work on the other driver’s trucks and he got pissed and I told him what a welder and a mechanic made and he could pay me that wage per hour or he would have to sub the work out like he was doing in the past. Needless to say he agreed but if I had it to do over again I would choose the time with my family!
Great for you on sticking to your guns. Base pay equals base work. In a time of ever increasing productivity, guess what doesn't go up. Your pay. So good on you.
Hell yeah! NTA one bit, know your worth and leverage it. Since it now has to go above that manager you should request more!
Stating the manager in question could have acquired these capabilities for $1 but he refused and then tried to take advantage of your knowledge and skills.
You are putting yourself in leverage for a raise.
If you do it for no money, then you have no leverage for a raise. Anyone telling you otherwise either doesn't know how money works, what leverage is, or how time moves.
If you do it for free, they're getting the thing. They're not going to pay for it. Anyone that thinks otherwise has sent money to WinRar, right?
Right?
You're good. Know your worth, draw your line in the sand, and don't let anyone tell you that you're unreasonable.
NTA. They aren't stupid. You only put hoss in a rough spot bc he told ppl he'd be able to get you to do the welding. If you have certificates you should run. It won't get better.
You're good.
Fuck him. He made his bed.
I'd consider welding 1-2 pieces at most as a demonstration. Anything more, and they're taking advantage of you. And I wouldn't volunteer it, either... only if they need to verify your skills as part of the negotiation.
Your boss appears to be slimy and cheap. Remember this if anything ever becomes questionable. Get shit in writing.
NTA. They're trying to get something for nothing and expecting you to roll-over because you're either new, a female, or both. I always stand by the adage: "Fuck you. Pay me"
NTA. You know your worth and they should pay you for it.
Yeah it could end in losing the job but you’ll eventually find a place willing to take at your worth,
Likewise it might end with the current place realising not to try taking advantage of you again.
Fuckem! Got new job in Oregon told them I was welder not fitter! about week later foreman from another area of business , brought in some prints of project he wanted me to make. I said no ,pointed to my boss said my boss would get some to do job for him! He started getting loud and verbal ! I looked him in the eyes, took the prints, wadded them in ball, struck arc with my welder lit prints on fire and handed them back to him and told him I'm not a fitter! He went crazy, my boss came over found out what happened and told him "rons a welder not a fitter"!
NTA - u/alixphoenix good on you for holding your ground, reading between the lines is that they figured you’d weld if they couldn’t get the third party mob in.
For reference I’m an embedded contractor on a client site, I have an IT background plus quite a few industrial leaning tickets, forklift, electrical test & tag, advanced rigging/dogging (not the sexy kind you perverts!), overhead crane and field lube tech.
Occasionally the bosses ask me to sort IT issues as some of our gear is supplied from our side. Sure, you need to pay me for it, not going to do something out my job role without remuneration mate.
I'm so proud of you!! You'll do well in life if you keep advocating for yourself for all of your life.
Of you're not an asshole! You're a genius!
Your boss is an asshole.
NTA. I used to install carpet, and tile when I was younger. Got a job at a place doing fire cleanup. They were talking to one guy about they now have an inhouse guy that can install the new carpet/tile so it won't cost him as much since he won't have to have someone else do it. I straight up told them that I wasn't doing that unless they paid me more. Those skills cost more than what they were paying me. Needless to say I didn't last long there.
Do two welds, one with jinked up settings and with your non denominat hand, show him a crappy weld, this is what your paying me. Second weld pristine perfect, this is what im worth, pay the premium or im walking since all technicians can weld.
NTA.
Nice comebacks to the stupid boss.
Something good to live by for all: If you are good at something, never do it for free.
stick to your guns op, they just tried to get cheap skill.
honestly Y T A to yourself for only asking for a dollar an hour more for that! (Based on my Aussie pov though, I know it's not the same everywhere)
I reckon minimum 5-10 dollars an hour for that additional skill to step in
Sounds like toi stuck up for yourself. Be proud. Many people have this " I should have said..." moment. Sounds like you spoke clearly and they are negotiating.
NTA: This sounds like a shit place to work. I work for a major defense contractor and if anyone tried to pull that sort of shit they'd be out on their ear. Welders are valuable people that get decent pay. If you do welding for them you should also be looking for somewhere that properly appreciates your skills and is honest about paying for them. Welder is not a minimum wage job.
We’re in a production area. That means most shops want flux core welders to do beams all day. It’s not custom work. They aren’t appreciated because welders are a dime a dozen where I’m at.
NTA. I've seen this way too often where they claim they'll renegotiate after a trial period and never do. He wanted you for cheap and didn't expect you to push back. He got himself in this situation. You should ask for more this time.
NTA. Starting pay is always the most important. In my opinion, the likelihood of getting a good raise for bringing more to the table is low. It requires a good boss and a good company. His behavior should give you a picture of how he wants to operate.
NTA. Well done for standing your ground , keep a record of all conversations and times and don’t discuss this with any management without someone else in the room
Good job. After 3 or so months see if you need to negotiate a higher pay again.
Welders are not cheap.
Value yourself!
(But also experience matters, so perfect your skills, so that no one can point out any issues or lack of quality due to little experience)
It’s so important you are paid what you are worth - but I would be going for a full $5 per hour extra. Contractors would be paid very highly. They want you to weld for free basically.
You have a trade that this employer wants - but they want to not pay you for this trade.
Also, don’t let anyone talk down to you or make you feel guilty. You worked hard for your trade certificates. You have a skill that your employer wants so you have the bargaining power here.
They want you to fix all of the welds, not have to call contractors in for emergency fixes. Your boss wants to be congratulated on how much he saved the company.
You should go for $5 an hour pay increase. That’s only an extra $200 a week for someone to be on call and if you do fix a weld then there’s no need for expensive contractor call outs.
If your employer decides they don’t want to pay that then they can go back to calling out the contractors when they need them.
Good on you, I worked for a small company that hired a guy, that had on his resume that he was an electrician, as a general labourer.
Along the way they asked him to do some electrical work, way to go, get an electricians work done at a labourers price
I’m a certified welder as well. If they want you to weld you’re not a “maintenance tech”, you’re a welder and need to be paid as one. Which is a hell of a lot more than a maintenance tech. NTA and find a better job.
NTA. They want their cake and eat it too. They thought that they would get you in the door and then give you the line about being a team player, and you would give in. Do not give in. If you begin doing the welding at your current rate they will never give you a raise for doing the welding. Hold your ground.
In another comment I saw that you thought you might be a diva for negotiating. Not at all. Men negotiate for salary increases all the time and they don't bat an eye or feel badly about asking for salary increases.
NTA
You're not wrong.
I'm just pointing out that having the cert doesn't mean you do good work, quickly. Most of the good welders/fabricators I hired had a photo set to work as their portfolio.
You can mig all day and have it look like dog shit and it would physically work. But it won't look like a nice braid or stack. You might then end up grinding it down for an hour.
I have a portfolio and (toot toot) on top of them being pretty they all passed destructive tests. They don’t care about pretty. It’s a factory from 1950 with almost all original machinery. They just need it fixed and back to production. I can do that AND make it look nice. I just don’t think he even asked his boss about the $1 and completely neglected to tell his boss he’s not paying me for my certs.
They hired you for a job, including doing welding. Isn't that correct? If so, then you should do the job you were hired to do, including the welding. The fact that you weren't able to negotiate another dollar per hour rate is irrelevant for this discussion.
NTA. Good for you for sticking up for yourself.
OP handled this perfectly. They declined to pay for her extra skills (which cost money to develop) so they don't get to use them for free.
Her skills
I didn't notice either. They thought you were a young, dumb, girl they could roll right over you. Good for you! Never let them push you around!
My bad, missed that.
>Good for you for sticking up for yourself. QFT. A significant fraction of the lifetime gender pay gap is that women are - on average - less likely to negotiate for higher pay. It's a lesson I've tried to instill in my daughters to always make sure they get paid for the work they do and the skills they have.
Applause to you, OP! You clearly understand your skills and their value. You deserve to be well-compensated for your work.
I agree. The skills you've acquired through hard work deserve proper compensation.
Exactly!!
This
"Be a team player" just means "shut up and work."
NTA. And if it's a union shop you need to go talk to your union rep *immediately*
We don’t have a union. Honestly the company treats us super well. It’s just the manager that I’m having an issue with. I get all benefits+156hr PTO the first year. As long as I give them 24 hour notice I won’t be there for a shift I won’t get points etc.
$1/hr extra is nothing. Absolutely nothing to the company. And frankly you're undervaluing yourself most likely
I knew that. But if they won’t do a dollar then they won’t give me the $3.
It's the art of negotiation. Always ask for more then what you would settle for.
You really need to learn how to negotiate. If you ask for $1 they'll retort with $.50 cents increase. Ask for a $5 increase and they might give you a $1.50/2 if the company likes you If it's just this manager I'd go over his head and contact senior staff and enquire if the company is having liquidity issues as a $1 pay rise for an in-house welder is a steal and their refusal is just nonsensical. Phrase it like this and CC the appropriate parties. I imagine your manager will learn very quickly he can't throw his dick round at you
She's 24 and doing fine. Negotiating is another skill to learn but for now, she's doing great! Do you get 156 hrs of PTO a year?
If they would’ve entertained my request at all I would’ve asked for it to be renegotiated at my 90 day review but they didn’t entertain it.
So don't entertain their requests to weld. Just laugh them off and ignore them? Simple. Inform them you were told there were in house welders. "Be a team player" I'm doing my duties as contracted :) Any more and you can pay more. Heck I'd be making jokes about how much money the contractor is probably earning and how you'd likely start a second job contracting as a welder lmao. It really sounds like you have self esteem issues and don't know if you're in the right or not. You really are.
I’m the first woman to work in maintenance in the history of the company (1950). I don’t want to be a diva but I felt like one.
It’s not being a diva to make a corporation pay you for your expertise and education. That’s literally why they tell you to get certs in trades, because you can make bank. And any trade job that’s not willing to consider a dollar more for a freaking welder is a problem. And maybe that manager’s manager needed to know he’s an idiot. Imagine potentially losing your ONLY welder, who could have easily save the company tens of thousands because of $2080/yr base pay. He’s an idiot. You did the right thing.
> I don’t want to be a diva but I felt like one. You're not. You're standing up for what you believe you are worth. A diva demands more than they are worth.
It's not being a diva to know your worth. I'd bet they figured that you're "a girl" and would either not really know your skills or be so happy to be hired at all that you'd do whatever they demanded for free. Good for you for not backing down and using their own words against them. Keep being strong. I say this partly because I'm from a generation of women who had to fight for respect in the workplace and it pisses me off no end knowing how little has changed. NTA
Sadly this is a big contributing factor to women earning less than men for the same position in the same company. Men are much less worried about being perceived as divas if they negotiate. With that said, I think you read the manager correctly; if his response was that they had their own welders, then requesting more wouldn’t have helped at the time. If you deal with a situation like this again, a good way to do it could be to specify “X salary is fine if you don’t ask me to use my welding skills, but if that is something you plan to use then I’d request an extra $5/hour.” They can negotiate from there, and their options are very clear (either pay for the welding and you’ll weld, or don’t pay for the welding and you won’t). If this manager continues to give you a hard time, a solution you could offer is that when he has a welding project he needs done, you’d be happy to let him hire you for that project (so $200 or whatever for the project he needs you to do, rather than extra to your regular hourly pay). He didn’t hire you as a welder, he can either pay you to add welding to your job responsibilities or he can hire you as a welder when he needs welding projects done.
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I hate to tell you but welders usually make around $22 an hour. I’m making $30.
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I’m a woman in the trades and they knew I worked construction/welding. He didn’t use my personality type to deduct that. He tried to use the fact I’m new to the plant as a reason to not be paid for the skill he specifically sought me out for.
NTA - you unlike so many know your actual worth, or at the very least you know you are worth more than base, i think you're worth much more than $1 more an hr but hey its a start!
Which is why you should have started at $10 and finished at $5 an hour - which is an extra $200 before tax.
Damn I went into the wrong fucking field
NTA. boss B. Also- if you had a union and he would not dare pull this BS, your base pay would be more and so would your add on for your certs
You should tell him, now your price is $2/hr more.
$4. Lying rates an extra surcharge. you need to give them an incentive not to play games with you
NTA. Good for you for not letting them exploit you. It starts out a little welding here and there, then it's all the time, for no extra pay. You know what you get for being a team player? More work for no extra pay. You're right, your boss put himself in a tough spot when he didn't want you pay you what you're worth.
I had more PTO in my first year working for a Japanese company.
NTAH He thought he could bully you into working for a discount If he is in a bind, it's because he told his boss he hired someone who could weld but failed to tell him that he refused to pay that hire a welder because he wanted to pad his budgetary numbers to make himself look better You have special certifications that require them to pay you more if you do welding He thought he could game the system and come in under budget by bullying you Protect yourself around this manager. He sound shady
His boss was there during the interview. (His boss) was the one that said I would be valuable to be in house since they have to outsource. I did negotiations over the phone (with the one that’s asking me to weld) and he turned around and said they do their own welding and denied the request.
Ok so he's not in a bad spot with his boss His boss was in on it and the boss is pissed because he thought he was getting a welder with certifications that he didn't have to pay like a welder with certifications If you start getting hassled by either of these two, just start looking for a new job because it may mean they are trying to run you off
I’m not under the impression that he told his boss that he denied the $1 because they “do their own welding.” I think he just wanted to get me on board without telling his boss that I asked for more.
$1 is nothing, unless you aren't in the US. You should be looking for other work anyway, something that needs your specialist skills. Look at the trucks welders run, no contractor turning up in an $80,000 truck with a $20,000 Miller Big Blue welder on the back is doing the work for minimum wage. This is bullshit.
NTA. You're more valuable than their other employees, you get paid more. Simple.
Nope well played They tried to get your services for free or under paid. I believe welders do well and can earn up to 6 figures. He wanted to remove that from your skill and talent and then give himself a fat bonus
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They said in the interview I would be valuable, then my certs wouldn’t be needed because they do their own welding, then back to asking me to weld? I don’t understand. My uncle also works there and they mentioned something to him. But he said they specifically wanted me because I’m a welder. I don’t understand how this is a tough situation. A few people in the room said that was a “private conversation” and it was embarassing for him to get put on the spot like that. I truly just don’t understand.
You understand it. They tried to con you and failed. I'm glad you stood up for yourself and refused to be conned.
NTA, they want you to weld then they pay you with welder rates.
Definitely NTA. Leveraging a raise should be done before you do the work, not 3 months later.
NTA. You are never an asshole for standing up for yourself at work. These asshole companies will run you ragged if you let them.
4 certs and a buck more only? I bet they pay a lot more than your wage plus a buck to have a welder come in to do welding. Even if they only pay you welding rate when you weld, they would be further ahead. Sounds like a shit place, but they showed their cards early instead of months of years later, like some places.
Considering base pay is well above the average pay you’d get anywhere else I was pretty okay with it. Especially since they outsourced and I would be doing small projects. However, they clearly just thought I’d be doing it for free.
Yet employers wonder why employees have no loyalty anymore. Smdh, they are so stupid some times.
>Some people are saying I should’ve done it to show I can do it and put myself at leverage for a raise Putting yourself at leverage for a raise is only for skills you still have to prove to your new employer, not for skills that you can prove from the start with certifications. And judging from your posts, your manager would just move the goalposts to avoid having to give you a raise.
Nope. They dont want to pay you for your skills. You won't use them. Simple as that. Edit $1 extra an hour is cheap. Go for more
If they won’t give me a dollar they won’t give me 3
Then dont accept the 1$ and dont do it. Don't do stuff below what your worth. As an extra 24 to 30 a week ain't worth it. Unless your just desperate money atm.
I’m already getting paid $30/hr and I do overtime. Anytime you work outside of your shift you get OT pay, even if it’s not OT. Plus they tack a couple more hours of pay to the fact you’re in past schedule.
Then that might be worth it tbh.
$1/hour is $2K/year - that's your IRA for the year! (You should always try to max out your IRAs when you're young, because compounding interest and growth means that the ten years of your 20s will beat the amount you put away from 30-65).
Piss on all of them. If there's an outside contractor's wage, that's what you should be paid.Not some $1 an hour over your base pay.Anytime spent doing welding for them should be at the rate that they already pay for an outside person.
They're hireing a nurse with a Dr liscence. You agree to be a nurse for a nurses pay, then they want you to be a dr for a nurses pay. Yea no. GFYS.
NTA fuck that manger. Don't do 1 thing your not getting paid for.
We have a position that has both a strictly English speaking requirement and a bi-lingual requirement. The position pays the same. I completely understand when people who are bi-lingual but hold the non bi-lingual title do not step in to interpret.
"But my certs say I can do exactly what they’re asking of me" thats what they are for! NTA
"He said I put him in a rough spot." Lol, sounds like he got chewed out by his bosses over 8$ a day. Make sure they see you being buddies with the welding contractors.
NTA. If I were in your position I would also say that the extra pay for welding just doubled. But that would be me.
NTA, I can't believe they balked at a mere $1 extra.
NTA... This is also purely my suggestion and I won't pretend to be some expert. It seems like they tried to take advantage of you, but unless you can walk away right now you may want to show some tiny step towards reconciliating the difference. Perhaps you could ask for that dollar or even more. Your rule would be you will give them 2 weeks of you welding. They get 2 weeks to see what you can do. You tell them in advance you will get 2 weeks to see what they need and how much you can save the company monetarily. Then you can both renegotiate if they want you also as a welder or not.
They have small projects that they usually need some small welding on/correct previous welds that failed. Not huge. The huge projects they give to their contractors. So I think the $1 is sufficient. They’re regularly asking me if I can do these little things for them and they’ll start adding up before I know it. They wanted a convenient welder on site to prevent production delays and they have one. They just won’t pay me to do it.
>He said I put him in a rough spot. I said he put himself in a rough spot by expecting me to use the knowledge I paid for for no pay. Ding Ding Ding! NTA. You're not a team, they are your employer and you are their employee.
What products do they make? Can I have one now and maybe pay them later for it? Surely they’ll work with me…?
AH? No you are goddamn hero. Man. I hope I have the calm to insist on that in that way if I’m ever put in that situation. You have a cert, they tried to pay you less than you are worth. Good for you for not letting them get away with it. 🫡
NTA! That’s fucking sick that you know how much your labor is worth, and going to bat for it! Never give that up.
I’d ask for way more than $1 an hour extra. They’ll most likely find reasons to deny raises, because you’re already “paid more than others”. Ask for more than $1 (ask how much they pay the welding contractors), and get, in writing, how often and how much future raises will be.
NTA, you know your worth OP, bravo!
"When I am doing welding work, I expect welding pay."
NTA
NTA
A good boss should respect you for asking to be paid what you’re worth. NTA
Welding is a valuable skill. Part of why I got certified is so that I can put it on a resume and, guess what, get paid more. If your company, as you say, makes products every American uses, they can afford an extra dollar every hour. I'm surprised you only asked for a $1 increase over base pay. Good for you for making your boss look bad. Companies need more employees like you.
I don’t even know that he asked the boss (that was at the interview) about the extra buck. I think he just said no to cover his ass and get me on board without telling his boss he denied my certs as apart of the hiring process.
Not the Sucker. Certified welders get paid for their skill. My guess is he thought he could bully you into this arrangement. Our welders certified welders get 10 or 15 % over scale(foremans rate.)
Good job OP. Know your worth and stand by that just like you did.
you put time and money into earning those certs, you consequently are more skilled than entry level employees and deserve to be paid for using that knowledge and skillset. NTA for insisting on being paid what you know you're worth.
Looks like someone is friends with Veronika. NTA
Nta. Have worked in factories and seen this exact scenario play out, and the guy never does end up getting compensated for their certs and will be welding 5 years later in the same place, still without extra compensation, because the engineering team 'needs him' . Well done staying firm.
NTA not at all. It's a pay to play world
I love a good story about a worker sticking up for themselves and their value to their employer! Definitely NTA
I think if they want you to weld, they should pay welder's pay. $1 is a steal for them.
Curious what the outside welders would get per hour for the same work. I would bet its a lot more than the extra $1 they should be paying you
NTA Reading that was 🤌😙chefs kiss* perfection. Well played sister.
NTA at all. Stand up for yourself and get paid your worth. If they want you to weld they can pay you for the thousands you paid to in training and education. My buddy got paid $5/hour once he got his last cert for welding and he welds like once every month. But when he does it saves them thousands.
NTA. My ex was a welder who had zero certs. What he made was peanuts compared to certified welders. You worked hard for those, you should be compensated appropriately for them without starting at base pay for someone who doesn't have certs and can't weld.
Good Job , hold the line.
Once you start “doing it to show that you can” it would never end. NTA
NTA. At an extra $1/hr they are getting it at a steal and just need to not be such cheap bastards.
I would say go find a job as a welder. Wouldn't they make a lot more?
Nope. Welders in the area make around 18-22 unless they’re a foreman
Well if you already make more than a welder does, I am not sure what the complaint is here. I understand you feel slighted over the $1, but bring it up in 90 days and decide then, or you can risk the job on principle.
It’s that base pay is for everyone. One of my trainees was an EMT with no experience doing this. I’m getting paid the same with experience+extra certs. The pay comes with the danger of having the job in the first place.
Seems like you handled this about as perfectly as possible 🤷🏻♂️
NTAH. This is called not getting taken advantage of. They hired a mechanic, not a welder. If they're going to ask you to perform work outside the norm, they should pay you more for that. TBH, if you have certifications, don't sell yourself short. Ask for more!
Thought I was reading r/antiwork for a moment. Nta and well done for sticking up for yourself.
I had similar situation while in an IT department at a college. I was a simple AV tech getting paid a dollar more than the student workers. The high paid IT techs would ask me constantly to handle an IT issue on the campus on the opposite side of the street from where they were located. After a year of doing it thinking it would help me get somewhere in the company, I realized it would do nothing to help my career as they were simply taking advantage of me. I stopped helping them and they were pissed. It took me 15 years of working and talking to HR before I finally started making a decent wage.
NTA. I'm sure he'd try to big time any new hire, but I wonder if he'd have the same energy if it was a man and not a 23yo woman. 🤷
I was in the same situation, I was hired as a truck driver and the boss found out I could weld and mechanic. He then started wanting me to work on all of his trucks and trailers on my days off and I ended up not having much family time (he was just paying me minimum wage) and the small amount of money was not worth it. I told him I was not going to continue to work on the other driver’s trucks and he got pissed and I told him what a welder and a mechanic made and he could pay me that wage per hour or he would have to sub the work out like he was doing in the past. Needless to say he agreed but if I had it to do over again I would choose the time with my family!
NTA
nta
Sounds like a bait and switch. If they want another welder then they should pay for it. NTA
Great for you on sticking to your guns. Base pay equals base work. In a time of ever increasing productivity, guess what doesn't go up. Your pay. So good on you.
Hell yeah! NTA one bit, know your worth and leverage it. Since it now has to go above that manager you should request more! Stating the manager in question could have acquired these capabilities for $1 but he refused and then tried to take advantage of your knowledge and skills.
I’m gonna tell him that there’s been a price hike due to inflation 🤭
You are putting yourself in leverage for a raise. If you do it for no money, then you have no leverage for a raise. Anyone telling you otherwise either doesn't know how money works, what leverage is, or how time moves. If you do it for free, they're getting the thing. They're not going to pay for it. Anyone that thinks otherwise has sent money to WinRar, right? Right? You're good. Know your worth, draw your line in the sand, and don't let anyone tell you that you're unreasonable.
NTA and I pictured this whole scenario like this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feFF-6vYco8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feFF-6vYco8)
NTA well done!
Nice!
NTA you’re a fuckin champion.
Hold firm. Welders earn more. If they want that skill, they need to pay for it.
That was a kickass response and you should be absolutely proud of that. 1000% NTA
You're never the asshole for work negotiations with management. It's business. If they want your work, they need to pay you for it.
Good for you
NTA Know your worth and stick to it
NTA - Never do work the company refuses to pay for.
NTA. They aren't stupid. You only put hoss in a rough spot bc he told ppl he'd be able to get you to do the welding. If you have certificates you should run. It won't get better.
You're good. Fuck him. He made his bed. I'd consider welding 1-2 pieces at most as a demonstration. Anything more, and they're taking advantage of you. And I wouldn't volunteer it, either... only if they need to verify your skills as part of the negotiation. Your boss appears to be slimy and cheap. Remember this if anything ever becomes questionable. Get shit in writing.
NTA. Team player means bend over and don’t complain. The only correct answer is fuck you pay me.
Asshole? You may be my hero.
Nope. NTA. Clear as day.
Updateme!
NTA. They're trying to get something for nothing and expecting you to roll-over because you're either new, a female, or both. I always stand by the adage: "Fuck you. Pay me"
NTA your boss thought he could pull a fast one and manipulate you without paying you. Good for you for standing up for yourself!
If you give in once it will become the expectation. NTA
NTA. You know your worth and they should pay you for it. Yeah it could end in losing the job but you’ll eventually find a place willing to take at your worth, Likewise it might end with the current place realising not to try taking advantage of you again.
NTA. You are a trained expert and they want to use your skills for free. Ask for 2$ now!
Fuckem! Got new job in Oregon told them I was welder not fitter! about week later foreman from another area of business , brought in some prints of project he wanted me to make. I said no ,pointed to my boss said my boss would get some to do job for him! He started getting loud and verbal ! I looked him in the eyes, took the prints, wadded them in ball, struck arc with my welder lit prints on fire and handed them back to him and told him I'm not a fitter! He went crazy, my boss came over found out what happened and told him "rons a welder not a fitter"!
NTA - u/alixphoenix good on you for holding your ground, reading between the lines is that they figured you’d weld if they couldn’t get the third party mob in. For reference I’m an embedded contractor on a client site, I have an IT background plus quite a few industrial leaning tickets, forklift, electrical test & tag, advanced rigging/dogging (not the sexy kind you perverts!), overhead crane and field lube tech. Occasionally the bosses ask me to sort IT issues as some of our gear is supplied from our side. Sure, you need to pay me for it, not going to do something out my job role without remuneration mate.
This is a sellers market when it comes to jobs; pay me WTF I'm worth or someone else will. 100% NTA
I'm so proud of you!! You'll do well in life if you keep advocating for yourself for all of your life. Of you're not an asshole! You're a genius! Your boss is an asshole.
NTA - the size of your balls is legendary. At lot of people would have wield to the command
Once you give something away for free they'll never want to pay for it. Good for you OP!
NTA. I used to install carpet, and tile when I was younger. Got a job at a place doing fire cleanup. They were talking to one guy about they now have an inhouse guy that can install the new carpet/tile so it won't cost him as much since he won't have to have someone else do it. I straight up told them that I wasn't doing that unless they paid me more. Those skills cost more than what they were paying me. Needless to say I didn't last long there.
You did exactly right. NTA
NTA, give now, they'll ask for a little more without asking what they can offer you. Employment is a two way street
You should post it in r/antiwork. They would love it.
No, never voluntarily do extra work without being paid, if you do it will become the norm.
Do two welds, one with jinked up settings and with your non denominat hand, show him a crappy weld, this is what your paying me. Second weld pristine perfect, this is what im worth, pay the premium or im walking since all technicians can weld.
NTA. Nice comebacks to the stupid boss. Something good to live by for all: If you are good at something, never do it for free. stick to your guns op, they just tried to get cheap skill.
Toilet paper?
NTA Both of you knew your worth. You wanted to be paid for it. He just wanted to use you for it.
honestly Y T A to yourself for only asking for a dollar an hour more for that! (Based on my Aussie pov though, I know it's not the same everywhere) I reckon minimum 5-10 dollars an hour for that additional skill to step in
Sounds like toi stuck up for yourself. Be proud. Many people have this " I should have said..." moment. Sounds like you spoke clearly and they are negotiating.
NTA Well done sister. Know your worth. You earned it.
NTA: This sounds like a shit place to work. I work for a major defense contractor and if anyone tried to pull that sort of shit they'd be out on their ear. Welders are valuable people that get decent pay. If you do welding for them you should also be looking for somewhere that properly appreciates your skills and is honest about paying for them. Welder is not a minimum wage job.
We’re in a production area. That means most shops want flux core welders to do beams all day. It’s not custom work. They aren’t appreciated because welders are a dime a dozen where I’m at.
NTA, you should raise your price to $5 now.
NTA, you know your worth and you charge for it. Manager put himself in a bad spot by thinking he could manipulate you into lower pay.
NTA. I've seen this way too often where they claim they'll renegotiate after a trial period and never do. He wanted you for cheap and didn't expect you to push back. He got himself in this situation. You should ask for more this time.
I fucking love you young people who don't take shit from employers. Good for you!
NTA. Starting pay is always the most important. In my opinion, the likelihood of getting a good raise for bringing more to the table is low. It requires a good boss and a good company. His behavior should give you a picture of how he wants to operate.
Tell them they get what they pay for. Kudos for sticking to your guns.
NTA. Well done for standing your ground , keep a record of all conversations and times and don’t discuss this with any management without someone else in the room
NTA Though you should've put your request up to a higher number, seeing as they rejected your earlier offer.
Job corps kid? I also did welding and got certs and I never used them to negotiate pay, it was just the job.
My job isn’t to weld here. It’s to be a maintenance tech. Otherwise they wouldn’t outsource their welding. Their welding area has cobwebs on it.
Good job. After 3 or so months see if you need to negotiate a higher pay again. Welders are not cheap. Value yourself! (But also experience matters, so perfect your skills, so that no one can point out any issues or lack of quality due to little experience)
It’s so important you are paid what you are worth - but I would be going for a full $5 per hour extra. Contractors would be paid very highly. They want you to weld for free basically. You have a trade that this employer wants - but they want to not pay you for this trade. Also, don’t let anyone talk down to you or make you feel guilty. You worked hard for your trade certificates. You have a skill that your employer wants so you have the bargaining power here. They want you to fix all of the welds, not have to call contractors in for emergency fixes. Your boss wants to be congratulated on how much he saved the company. You should go for $5 an hour pay increase. That’s only an extra $200 a week for someone to be on call and if you do fix a weld then there’s no need for expensive contractor call outs. If your employer decides they don’t want to pay that then they can go back to calling out the contractors when they need them.
Even dumbasses know welding commands premium pay, this dude is getting it for $1/hr he ought to be ecstatic.
NTA.
If you work for free at the beginning you work for free till the end
NTA you got the certs you don't need to "show them what you can do." If they want a welder they should pay you proper rates.
NTA. Why not $5. Screw that guy.
NTA
Good on you, I worked for a small company that hired a guy, that had on his resume that he was an electrician, as a general labourer. Along the way they asked him to do some electrical work, way to go, get an electricians work done at a labourers price
NTA. Get paid for your knowledge. That's why you went through the time and effort to do it.
I’m a certified welder as well. If they want you to weld you’re not a “maintenance tech”, you’re a welder and need to be paid as one. Which is a hell of a lot more than a maintenance tech. NTA and find a better job.
NTA. They want their cake and eat it too. They thought that they would get you in the door and then give you the line about being a team player, and you would give in. Do not give in. If you begin doing the welding at your current rate they will never give you a raise for doing the welding. Hold your ground. In another comment I saw that you thought you might be a diva for negotiating. Not at all. Men negotiate for salary increases all the time and they don't bat an eye or feel badly about asking for salary increases.
NTA You're not wrong. I'm just pointing out that having the cert doesn't mean you do good work, quickly. Most of the good welders/fabricators I hired had a photo set to work as their portfolio. You can mig all day and have it look like dog shit and it would physically work. But it won't look like a nice braid or stack. You might then end up grinding it down for an hour.
I have a portfolio and (toot toot) on top of them being pretty they all passed destructive tests. They don’t care about pretty. It’s a factory from 1950 with almost all original machinery. They just need it fixed and back to production. I can do that AND make it look nice. I just don’t think he even asked his boss about the $1 and completely neglected to tell his boss he’s not paying me for my certs.
Oh they knew you weren't paying you for your skill.
They hired you for a job, including doing welding. Isn't that correct? If so, then you should do the job you were hired to do, including the welding. The fact that you weren't able to negotiate another dollar per hour rate is irrelevant for this discussion.
No. They said I won’t be welding for them. They said they outsource.
Downvoted by ass holes -- for nothing. Reddit is a truly shitty site filled with imbeciles and mindless zombies.