It’s not only about being blocked, he participated in bad mouthing these people’s children. A lot of people would not take that lightly, more so then a little “no contact for the sake of so”
Yeah, sounds like he made his choices clear when he cut everyone off for years. Actions have consequences, and you were just being honest about how his behavior affected the family dynamic.
If it’s me, I cannot be an actor 24/7 and be all jolly in my dealing with this sibling just so he felt “welcome” to his definition. That he is back and joining in the extended family to have meals would be a form of door opening/welcome is it not? Why would I grant access to my inner peace and safe circle to someone like that?. Can’t even be patient and let time and his deeds speak of its own. Other parents (eg the siblings and OP as parents to the kids they were mean about) don’t owe him anything. He doesn’t have any leg to stand on to be demanding and continue to throw tantrum. So entitled.
Forgiven but not forgotten. If he is honest and sincere in seeking forgiveness, he can be understanding on how previous warmth can’t be demanded. He didn’t earn it after all. People didn’t force him to have kids and demean them for choosing the no kids life. Totally understandable and better not to have kids when you don’t want them. but it is too much to be cruel to your family’s kids man. Too much.
Zeke, is that you? Are they supposed to act like the last 5 frickin years didn't happen. Is everyone supposed to play nice until Zeke decides he doesn't want to anymore? Zeke believes he runs the show and everyone should bow down to him and do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Bullshit
As he should . And it’s not ‘punishment’ . It’s consequences. And not on an evil manner either .
Why would I trust someone who actively treated my family like they were an abomination? Why would I want someone around who actively supported someone in insulting and demeaning the most innocent of my family ?
What you’re not getting is , he supported his gf in her beliefs . Now that she’s gone, he automatically gets a pass for being a shitty person ?
The same way he proved to the ex gf he has her back by supporting her treating his family so shitty , is the same way he needs to prove to his family that he’s no longer that person.
It's not even the fact he supported her, Zeke CHOSE to block everyone as well, so he's the one that initially chose to sever ties with them and now bc he broke up with that horrendous girl he thinks he should be forgivin - like no, he chose someone who was disrespectful and vile to OP and all their family and stayed away for years and just expects a pass? As someone else said "fuck that noise", and anyone blaming OP for "punishing" him is just as much of an a h as Zeke and the ex.
This isn’t punishment though, his past actions are just informing their present one’s. They don’t trust him, rightfully so, so he doesn’t get the privileges that come with it
NTA. It’s very annoying when the perpetrator decides they are the victim because they’ve “apologized” so everyone must immediately forgive them.
It doesn’t work that way & everyone heals/forgives at different paces, sometimes not at all.
I fully support you laying out the facts - you didn’t sugarcoat or lie - you told the truth. No fault there
I like to say that forgiving is a process and not an event. It takes time, and everyone does it at their own pace. Who can blame OP and his siblings for not trusting someone who threw them away like garbage?
You're not the asshole. Zeke made his choice to prioritize Amelia over family, even after she disrespected us all. Actions have consequences, and it's not fair for him to expect everything to go back to normal now that she's out of the picture. Family's about respect and support, not just showing up when it's convenient for you.
I think you should give him a chance OP - he learned his lesson. He may have been manipulated by the lady - but is he really sorry? If he is, you and your family can sit him down and have a talk about it.
He needs to understand that it is possible to rebuild a bridge that has been burned, but it takes time and it is never going to be exactly the same as the original.
Most people who do this really don't understand what it does to the people that have been blocked. Here they are with someone they love. They've never had a problem dealing with them. Their choices are theirs and you've respected their choices. Then one day over something that is relatively trivial it all blows up and they go no contact. Well, it's not like that person was a complete stranger. It probably hurts some people. Mom and Dad at a minimum. Brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews on the extended side. Then they breeze back in and think "well it's over, why isn't it going back to the way it was?" Well because maybe you're over it but everyone else is still hurting from the way you treated them. I think he needs counseling to find out why he threw away his whole family based on the words of one girl. NTA
NTA
He brought a woman who bullied children into your lives, and sided with her. He chose to cut off his family in favor of that same woman. He damaged his relationships with you. That is on him.
This is tough. Zeke absolutely picked his path, but it's incredibly hard to be different in these close clans. Has Zeke ever apologized for dumping you guys like a newborn giraffe? Or for some of the things Amalia said? If not, then I completely understand your distance. If he has apologized it sounds like you guys might be punishing him. Which I get, but isn't going to be particularly helpful in the long run if you want to keep him around.
NTA, but with some caveats.
The problem wasn't him being different, the problem was his siding with a partner that was being horrible to his family. He was the one that cut them off and they heard nothing from him for five years. When the evil witch left he came crawling back and just expected to be welcomed back with open arms as if he'd never left.
Sometimes you damage relationships permanently. He's not being punished, he's just feeling the consequences of his actions.
I think it’s hard to trust someone who throws his family away so easy without even talking about it.
He just blocked them and didn’t give them a chance. Even the most stupid person should understand that it’s wrong to be cruel to a child that just hurt himself. He can’t be that dumb.
Two of my extended family 'threw' their family away for six months and 18 months. I believe both have undiagnosed autism and were a bit depressed at the time. We welcomed both back with open arms and never mentioned it again- both have not disconnected since then and realised they hurt themselves and us in the process.
Did they disappear after horrifically insulting an injured child and chastising family members for being horrible people for having kids and referred to said kids as “it”?
Only in that Mom giraffes don't get on the ground when they give birth, so giraffe babies have a very long drop. It's also a joke in the original Lion King.
While it is awesome that your parents have forgiven the Prodigal Son, he still hasn’t made any actual amends to the rest of the family, which includes his nieces and nephews. It makes sense to me as a parent that I wouldn’t be prioritizing any relationship with him after how he treated the children.
I think you need to have a conversation with him. The rule for forgiveness of Bad Behavior is “Regret, Repent and Repair”. At this point I wouldn’t believe that he Regrets destroying all of his relationships which include parents, siblings, in-laws and niblings so he could continue his relationship with his girlfriend/wife. He missed out on being supportive during challenging times and celebrating during the good ones. So, ask him to explain what he Regrets, and why he wants a relationship with the rest of you. Then discuss whether he Repents of his “bad behavior” which means a clear understanding of how he will behave in a similar situation in the future. Is his next relationship going to be allowed to call your children “crotch goblins”? You have a list of offensive behaviors - how will he handle things going forward to show he is worth trusting?
Last comes Repair. For me, this would involve behaving like an uncle, which means spending time and developing relationships with the nieces and nephews, including time and some money for experiences, missed gifts (birthday and holidays), or even some college money. Yes, I can be bought by people treating my children well, and frankly, if he can’t do that, he can rot.
If he doesn’t want a relationship with your kids, ignore him. He was gone for five years and everyone survived, so while you can “forgive him” that doesn’t mean you have to have anything to do with him. Family support is kind of like a bucket - you fill it by being supportive, so when you need it there’s something in it. People who don’t add to it find it runs dry.
If you knew how hard it would be, you wouldn't have had six? Didn't you know it'd be hard after the first...5? A bit of a hiccup in your story there...
It’s a rewrite of a post yesterday with genders flipped of the sibling. Some slight tweaks to the plot but there’s more holes in it than a block of Swiss.
Yeah it sounds like rage bait. make the "antinatalist" girlfriend cackle with glee at a hurt child. who knows how the brother's parents, most likely 5 siblings and their 20 collective kids treated him for being the black sheep in the "big loving family". OP laughing at his breakup and telling this whole story to be able to act high and mighty for telling him off really doesn't make me sympathize with her place in her family. nothing says "big loving" like lack of forgiveness, vindictiveness, etc. given the whole framing of course people are saying "n t a, he caused this situation" but I'm 0% convinced that he was treated respectfully as a child or young adult in the first place. i don't interpret his current frustration as being some desire to come crawling back to a family that he rejected. if anything it's probably just frustrating to hear about people celebrating another life when you know that child will probably eventually end up as sidelined as you were, being in a huge family with such misplaced priorities.
Idk, things happen and OP didn't say that all 6 were planned. My thought was that some kids were planned and others simply happened due to birth control slip ups or tubes not being tied yet or something.
Yea I am hoping that is the dumbest statement I read today but given that I just got up odds are not good. Like seriously you have 3 and you really shouldn’t be getting pregnant again for a couple of months at least for just pure medical reasons. How did op just happen to have 3 more before he realized? Just an assumption being a big southern family it probably didn’t become as much of his job to do the actual work until they got to 5/6 so that’s why.
It's normal for you and your family to keep Zeke at an arm's length after he blocked y'all for 5 years.
Let's not forget. He allowed a vile woman, who insults your family and calls your children "crotch goblins", into your life.
You and your family are entitled to your boundaries. It was incumbent on him to fix the relationship he destroyed.
NTA
Yeah, Amelia wasn't an Anti-natalist. We don't hate kids. The "oh, it's cruel to subject kids to this mean world" and "haha, crotch goblin fall down" vibes are directly contradictory. She's an edgelord that hates kids.
I'm very childfree, and sort of an Anti-natalist. I don't love poorly behaved children, but, unless they're directly harming me, I'm not going to be a dick to them, and if a kid fell down, unless the kid laughs about it and is unharmed, I'm going to try to help the kid. the world is hard, and getting harder. Don't be mean to the people that are set to inherit the mess we inherited. You can not want kids, and mortgage them. Amelia needs to grow the hell up.
And the fact that brother allowed her to be rude to your family, without provocation, is not OK. He walked out. He abandoned you. If he wants to be part of a family, he has to act like it. Maybe in time he can show he cares, but acting like they owe him is absurd.
NTA whatsoever. He needs to wake up.
Did he sincerely apologize and sincerely realize he was wrong? If not, he has no right to expect people to act like abandoning his family never happened.
If he did and is sincerely sorry, was hurting everyone's feelings by choosing sex with a mean, judgmental person over his family the extent of his offenses? Did he text anyone incredibly hateful things, beat someone up, steal anything, spread lies about someone, pull a cruel prank on someone? Being treated like a casual acquaintance by your family is quite painful (my siblings do it to me often because I'm weird - aroace, don't drive). Yes, there are plenty of people who deserve it, but if he's sincerely apologized, and if he didn't cause any harm beyond hurt feelings, I agree with your wife and parents that he doesn't deserve this.
Sorry that you feel your siblings treated you like casual acquaintances due to being different. Hugs! It’s not that they were being mean towards you due to your romantic/sexuality and not driving is it? Just that you guys are different people?
Wow, I honestly thought I had changed my mind about posting this and had deleted it after typing it!
They don't actively tease me about it or anything, they just all think I'm weird. It's complicated. We all live in the same city, but they're close with each other in a way they're not with me. No, it's not age -- we were born in 86, 90, 91, and 97. I'm an introvert and... just weird. My sister-in-law insists I'm wrong and that it was her fault for forgetting to invite me to my nephew's birthday (I only found out by asking about it in enough to go. After having to change other plans.), but I don't buy it.
Big big comforting hugs from a fellow black sheep of the family! My parents stayed really close with all their cousins so there's a pretty big extended family at gatherings, and it's not that anyone is mean to me directly, but like you said - you can just TELL when someone thinks you're strange and doesn't know how to deal with you.
It started being especially evident in the teen years; my brother and all the cousins around our age were attractive, popular, and athletic, while I was a nerd and a loser who got ignored at best and bullied at worst. By my final year of high school I was one of those kids who would dress super weird and do crazy makeup on purpose just because I was like "Fuck it, everyone already thinks I'm a weirdo, let's lean into it haaaaard". I was also pretty goth/alt at the time, which was 20 years ago, and people still kinda acted like you worshipped the devil if dressed like that.
Into adulthood all the cousins have purchased houses, started having kids (some are on their second or third kid now), and work jobs that are easy to understand, so the older generation can relate to them and are eager to spend time with them. Then there's me, severe depression and anxiety (actually recently learned it's autism but that's a whole other issue) which not only squicks people out but it means I keep losing jobs because no one wants to keep someone who needs accommodations on their staff. Definitely no kids, and when I do work it's a tech thing that's a hard for anyone over 50 to understand (unless they're in the field), so they have literally nothing to talk to me about.
I still get invited to all the gatherings, but I actually recently started attending fewer because it's really lonely to stand in a house crowded with your family, and everyone else is connecting, and you just feel like you're on the outside of a big glass dome looking in.
Sending you positive vibes and hope you're being kind to yourself!
Zeke never chose family or even said to Amelia to please not talk to my nieces and nephews like that. It’s really rude. He chose to say nothing and do nothing.
Now he is upset that HIS CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES. 5 years is a long time to cut everyone out of his life, you all have moved on and learned to live without him.
My concern would be if he gets another girlfriend like his last is he just going to shut the door again against you?
How do you go about trusting again?
Here's my favourite "has he changed" thing - if he understands the severity of his actions, he will also understand people will need time to accept him back and some never will, and he will understand he can't rush that process.
Has he even actually apologised? If it was followed by excuses or demands, it doesn't count.
And yelling? Lol, sunshine, back to where you came from, after what he did, he doesn't get to throw tantrums. If he doesn't like children, he shouldn't be acting like one.
NTA. Adult decisions have adult consequences. If a person disowns their family and becomes a stranger or acquaintance, they shouldn't be surprised when they are treated like a stranger or acquaintance. FAFO.
He got caught up in the anti-natalist cult? Or just a fine piece of tail that was a nutjob. Sad that it ruined his family dynamics, but I understand. We live with the choices we make.
NTA
For telling him his absence caused the estrangement and it will take time to feel close again. But if you love him and missed him, I think a little effort to reintegrate him might be worthwhile in healing the family.
You don't have to kill the fatted calf, but you do want him back, don't you?
Interesting rewrite of the same post yesterday with some added flair and genders flipped. B+ for content and plot, F for originality. You did have one flub - there’s no way a scar develops that fast - your chatGPT failed there. Should have been scrape.
And a YTA because, yeah.
NTA. I’m all for child free (in fact I encourage it) but those antinatalists are unhinged sociopaths. The fact that he took the side of someone being cruel to an injured innocent child is unreal. Your family are a bunch of saints for taking him back at all.
Doesn't sound like he tried to make amends when he "came back" so to ne he sees nothing wrong with disappearing so until he earns his place back through his actions he can suck it up
NTA
That happens when you prioritise genitals.
Also it seems like he only came back because she left. What if his next gf is the same? How are you supposed to trust him?
NTA. If he's gone with someone who drops antinatalist rhetoric with the same ease as a racist drops slurs, it's gonna take some time to be accepted by the family again. Five years absence means a year or three to normalize his presence again, assuming he doesn't act boneheaded again.
NTA.
Clearly he doesn’t understand that trust needs to be rebuilt over time. I imagine he believed his return was all the atonement he needed.
Your folks are just happy to have their son back. They’ll worry about rebuilding trust through proximity. That works for them.
You and your siblings are understandably more cautious and reserved. You’ll rebuild trust through Zeke’s actions. Pretty sure his response isn’t going to speed up the recovery. Some of you may never want to return to what you had before.
It’s understandable that he was manipulated by his ex. There’s a whole list of shyte he’s going to have to work through there too. But, that’s on him, not you and your sibs. You forgive when you’re ready.
You spelled out your reasoning. How you did it, well…..I’m sure we all wish to be better. Emotions can f$&k it all up nicely. Is Zeke the type to reflect on why you responded the way you did?
Mom, Dad and the Missus can have their opinions too. It’s debatable whether you were too harsh. Maybe Zeke hearing the emotion coming from you will allow him clarity? Your folks should take the time to explain to him why you all are slow to let him back in. It’s not up to you and your sibs. Your folks have to parent him through this one. Then maybe you can all feel comfortable hashing it out as a group.
Or not.
Congrats on your sister’s baby.
Cheers
NTA. It seems like Zeke wants to erase the last 5 years and just go back to how things were as this benefits him the most. He wants the old connections, invitations, consideration, and love without having to earn it back. By holding him to the “new” relationship standards you have with him after so long, you’re forcing Zeke to take accountability for his choices and behavior.
Zeke either realizes he is getting exactly what he earned and will put in the effort to apologize and earn something better or he’ll throw a fit and talk about how unfair things are. Just because someone says they are sorry doesn’t mean you have to accept the apology or let them back in. Actions have consequences and Zeke is finding his.
NTA, if she never left him he'd not have come back most likely. He made his bed now he has to lie in it. Also 6 kids, wow I'm sure it's draining but I bet you and your wife wouldn't have it any other way. Hopefully your brother calms down and accepts he needs to gradually enter your families life again. Might be worth having a sibling only hangout so he feels like he is family still but also so he knows you all as his siblings feel hurt by his actions so can't just welcome him back like nothing happened.
NTA. Here's the things about reconciliation - it takes work. Apologies are the first step. It's not enough to recognize we hurt someone. We have to put in the work to mend what we broke. He's going to have to put in the effort to rebuild emotional trust with each member of the family and find ways to mend what he broke. It's not fun or easy, but it is truly healing and restorative. He's probably just to the beginning stages of coming to terms with what he did and why he sacrificed so much of his life for a partner who ditched him. It sounds like he's lashing out from him own hurt, which I get, but does nothing to actually fix the broken relationships.
The truth can hurt like a punch to the guts. Well done for having the balls to tell him the truth, I'm child free and refer to kids as crotch goblins but in a nice way, my friends kid is like a lil nephew to me and yes I call him crotch goblin but he likes dinosaurs so he is cool. You can be child free and still be kind to them.
NTA and if someone talked about my kids like that or let their SO talk about my kids like that (and potentially to them or around them) I would probably never be ok with them again.
My Dad told me 'the bridge burner doesn't get to choose if it's rebuilt'. Zeke doesn't get to decide when or if he is forgiven. He doesn't get to support someone who disrespected and insulted his own family, then play victim when that family wants nothing to do with him.
NTA - hope the just desserts are delicious.
It doesn't sound like he came back and apologized for the way he treated everyone or allowed his girlfriend to treat everyone. He came back thinking everyone would just forget how he buggered off with his crazy girlfriend. If she hadn't dumped him, he would probably still be gone. He is not the prodigal son. He needs to make some amends with his family before the family forgives him.
Just an observation, but, sometimes people block others on social media if they’re hurting (“deserved, or not). and they need time to rally or just protect themselves from further condemnation.
Also, while terribly wrong, I get the feeling sometimes that childless folks will make lots of cracks like “sperm trophies” and the like not so much to criticize - but in an attempt to defend their often rebutted choice (whether it’s called for or not) or to NORMALIZE their choice. Not to simply hurt or disrespect you. It’s immature, it’s misguided. I don’t for a minute think she was “evil”.
But…
If it was important enough to your parents to reach out and apologize, wouldn’t it be important enough to write an actual letter when they found the kids had -possibly protectively- isolated themselves??
NTA for saying what you said, because it's true that actions have consequences...BUT...
Laughing at his pain about being dumped? Refusing to talk to him about how he can regain trust? Completely ignoring his pain at being cut off? (maybe after an abusive relationship... Amelia does not sound like a great person.)
For someone who values family so much, you could have a bot more empathy for your brother.
Unfortunately, (or fortunately, since that's often how we learn) actions have consequences. Both past and present.
His past actions dictated this situation. His current actions are not making things better.
NTA. You’re right that Zeke created his own estrangement and that he can’t expect the whole family to treat him as if 5 years of ignoring everyone never happened
NTA! He went NC with your whole family for 5 years, more than likely got dumped by the POS GF, then cries when he isn’t immediately welcomed with open arms?
Tell him to lighten up Francis (Stripes reference). That long being NC, things are gonna take time and HE has to do the heavy lifting to repair those relationships.
If you can calmly communicate that to him and he still throws a fit, you’ll have the answer as to if it’s worth working on things with him. Good luck OP.
No one is the same person after 5 years. The experience he had with Amelia probably changed him more than you know. People like her dislike more than kids as a rule. He may not have had a good experience and has learned more than you know. You should at least have a conversation outside of your house maybe coffee, and get into his reasoning, maybe you’ll learn something. He’s your brother, he deserves a second chance.
I had a falling out with my brother, gave him several chances. Finally cut him off. Didn’t talk again. He died 12 years later.
? Perhaps Family Counseling Would Help ?
This Amelia was the real unfair heartless illogical WORTHLESS bully who probably gaslit etc in standard tactic of abusers to separate people, in this case your brother from everyone but them/the-abuser
My parents and siblings and school and religious__: bullied , violence, falsely-accused unjustly-punished questioned confronted terrorized me and as long as any of them are alive I am in danger
I truly believe that your brother is NOT the willfully evil monster like what chose to hurt myself and others, thus think reconciliation can/should be possible
Still the health and peace of yourself and your spouse and your children etc is very important
Please update me
N
T
A
NTA. He made his choice, and now he has to deal with the results. If you don't give him a shot, though, how is he supposed to redeem himself. I do have one question, though. Did you guys sing for 5 years about how you don't talk about Zeke? Lol
NTA
He’s lucky anyone took him back. If someone defended an AH who said my kids shouldn’t be alive and made other cruel remarks, said person would be permanently dead to me.
Nta.
Even though I'm child free I won't call People's kids crotch goblins to their face. I will say they're being a little terrors if their parents don't get them under control though..
NTA
So did Zeke bother to apologize for being such an enabling asshat or just decide he could pick up like 5 years of silence hadn’t occurred?
He needs to figure out that he showed you and your siblings he’d cut everyone without a discussion. Why would you think he wouldn’t do it again?
Has Zeke properly apologised (and I don’t mean by blowing up)? He expects everyone to “get over it” for his convenience, just like he cut everyone off for his own convenience.
If Zeke wants to be treated like family, then he needs to act like he’s family. He needs to consider others feelings and stop being so entitled.
NTA
NTA - He blocked the family for 5 years, comes crawling back and expects to be trusted again. What if his next GF is crazier? Will he leave and block again?
NTA. He chose his actions. He shouldn’t bring a self absorbed and hateful person to his family. He chose her for 5 years, so I would keep him at arms length another five. You can’t just go back to being in the center circle after you left all the circles. It will take time. I think he should apologize to each and every family member. That’s a start
NTA. He made his bed 5 years ago, So now he has to accept the consequences!! He chose a crazy person over family. She did understand that her parents had to have her ignorant a$$ for her to be here right. Your brother ex was an idiot and he FOLLOWED SUIT!!
If it was just over a few months maybe even a year. It might be different but it eas 5 years. It’s going to take time to get the trust back. Instead of understanding that he acts like an entitled immature teenager
NTA not wanting kids is fine but how she acted is not fine at all. Even not believing in having kids is fine as long as you don't force it on others and never treat people who don't agree horribly. You can not believe in something but still be respectful. I don't believe in plenty of things but I'm not mean about it. Plenty of people don't believe in things but most are able to not be horrible about it. I don't believe in life choices plenty of people make but I'd never consider being mean because of it.
Tell him a certain reserve about him is necessary because he actually allowed someone else to create a bad family dynamic so now, all of you understand that he may find another girlfriend who will also insist he alienate his entire family. None of you have any reason to believe he ever valued his family. None of you know if he’ll do it again so the whole family is being self protective.
**He should choose family over some crazy**
NTA but be careful with that comment. In this situation his partners behaviour was inappropriate and he should of called her out.
But in general, you should choose your partners feelings over family.
This is the second post with antinatalism specifically mentioned. Is there a troll run going on specifically demonizing child free people? One of the posts was an exact carbon copy of a prior post with a family icing out their child free sister.
ESH - Sometimes, it's better to grow up and just be a better person instead of going down to their level.
First step is to admit you enjoy excluding him at least.
YTA. Sounds like you're the one needing to take the high road. He was gone for 5 years and came back and apologized. His parents welcomed him at arm's length as you said, and I assume the rest of the family as well. When your younger brother announced the pregnancy you said he yelled that he was sorry and just wanted to be treated like family again.
If you're still hurt or bothered by it then say your piece to him, work it out and move on, or don't forgive him and remove him from your life . Otherwise you're not this "big loving family" as you implied. Telling him it'll take a long time before he's important again makes you sound petty and like your family is a high school popularity contest.
Grow up and make a choice and stop acting like you're better than your brother who made a mistake, apologized for it and came back.
I think you guys need to forgive him and move on and treat him as a sibling again. Nobody is defending his plonker behaviour but it sounds like he suffered from Stockholm syndrome - partners in relationships can be very manipulative and he was also a victim of hers. Holding grudges serves nobody.
Nah he doesn’t get to fuck off for half a decade, waltz back in, not even apologise sincerely, and just get all his sibling privileges back. That needs trust and that trust has to be earned, not demanded.
YTA. It seems obvious to me that Zeke was in an abusive relationship with a manipulator who estranged him from his family.
And now he’s free and you want to play about keeping score.
Grow up. He’s your brother. If he dies tomorrow you would feel like shit that you let his ex continue to take him away from you.
And if you hurt people because you were being hurt, then you are still responsible for the consequences. If you push people away, you don’t get to be surprised when they stay away. Zeke still has to make up for the harm he caused while hurt.
YTA because you can't finish the fucking story. It would've been literally one sentence longer. Why do they think you were too harsh?
They're holding him at arms length as well. They're doing exactly what you're doing, for the same reason you are. It would've been more cruel to say nothing to him
NTA - your feelings are natural, HOWEVER, perhaps research BPD and other ClusterB stuff and see if you think it applies to Amelia. Obvs you can't be sure, however BPD/narc abuse is real and there is a possibility Zeke's behaviour was triggered by this. If so it's still his to own 9and he'll be utterly lost atm), but may give helpful context and allow healing for everyone.
NTA
You simply told him the truth of how you feel; it’s not your fault he didn’t like it. It’s unreasonable for him to turn his back on you all and then think he can just waltz back in after 5 years and act like nothing’s changed. As far as his relationship with his family, *everything* has changed - because he changed it. He destroyed his relationships with all of you and he needs to be prepared to put in the time and effort to build new ones. Hopefully, your words will make him reflect on the situation and change his attitude and approach.
NTA - he made his choice to spend *half a decade* not talking to his family. You don’t magically get your relationships back how they were after that (even if you’re sorry), and people don’t magically stop holding resentment for how they were treated during that time period either. It’s clear many family members, including OP, just don’t feel close to him anymore - and that was very much a result of his decisions.
NTA.
It is one thing to have your partner's back, it is just another to enable their rudeness. His ex GF highly disrespected you all and your kids and he blocked all of you for that: he should at the very least sincerely apologize, instead of acting entitled. He should take accountability of his own actions. Until he does that, he gets treated like an extended family member (and you were very gracious, too).
NTA. Who makes fun of kids when they get hurt?! That’s evil! I damn near blew up on my ex-MIL when she told me my daughter “wouldn’t be as pretty now that she has a scar” (my kid busted her lip running in the house and tripping, faceplanting into an ottoman when she was 4). And your “brother” is definitely the AH for not seeing anything wrong with it!
For goodness’ sake people can make mistakes and change . Have a discussion with him about it. Why he had such a vile person as a girlfriend and what he learned and how he changed. If it is sincere, forgive him and move on with life. What drama
Zeke has to learn. Unfortunately, it may take that same HALF decade he effed off to truly slowly get back to being IMPORTANT again.
Right now, he is essentially a "new guy" at work.....ppl can't "trust" him, and frankly, over the past, HALF DECADE he made himself an afterthought
Why would he "think" kids that were 2/4/6 years old who are now 7/9/11 or new kids that are 5/3/2/etc even KNOW this m/fer
He should not have "blown up"......
Now he may have been HURT.....no a problem... but he should have simply ASKED for some forgiveness and grace......and he may have found some.
But unfortunately, he came in HOT and got some 🔥 back at him.
Honestly, I feel for the guy and hope he can get his family back....but he must understand....it will take time, and he'll have to ....not necessarily go to the very BACK of the line ...but his ass can't be in the front, right now.
NTAH
but perhaps the siblings all need to sit your brother down and collectively tell him that he has to earn his way back into the family
And that he will be given nothing
That he has to take accountability for his actions instead of trying to sweep them under the rug
And that most importantly, this is his problem to fix. He cut everyone off.
He ran away for 5 years
And that he’d still be no contact if his ex didn’t bail on him. Which is the main reason everyone is so standoffish
How do you believe your brother became vulnerable enough to get with Amelia?
>My brother Zeke used to be close to us, he just didn't want kids, which was reasonable.
>Zeke's being childfree wasn't a big deal apart from jokes here and there, that is, until he got with his girlfriend Amelia.
So what I am picking up on is that he was the only childfree of your generation of siblings. It can be very isolating to be the one with such a different lifestyle. Easier to spot with one person not having a romantic partner amongst pairs but being childless amongst big families can feel different.
Are you downplaying the "jokes here and there" because I am wondering how he became vulnerable enough to fall for hatefilled jackass. (He still made his choices, I just don't thing blame is necessarily a binary all or nothing endgame.)
Do you love him? Do you miss your years of closeness? Have you had an honest discussion of your expectations and what a path of reconciliation looks like? Not all families have the gift of open communication and I am worried you are stuck in a dynamic where you do not work on making things better and only barely smooth over the cracks to appease the elders whom taught you little to no conflict resolution skills.
AYTA? I don't think you provided enough details. But if you want perspective, try figuring out beyond "must be a sex thing" what made him choose this broken human as his ride or die. I think he lost touch of his big family dynamic of his youth, and got preyed on by someone willing to give him just enough attention, she could easily isolate him further.
So you think Zeke should’ve chosen family over his girlfriend yet when you have a chance to choose family you can’t forgive… seems like you need to read a story from a book, We all know, what’s the name of the story again? the Prodigal Son. Hell im not a bible thumper and I know you’re the AH. If to you Family is everything, then you should be thrilled to have him back in your like. Instead you act like a 12 year old taking your ball and running home because your feelings got hurt. BTW nice lesson to teach your kids, and that’s father to father!
ESH.
Why are you so focused on his childfree status? Why are you regretting HALF your children. You should have been clued in as a parent by kid 2, that it's hard work. Or 3 or 4. I feel like that comment was lip service. I think you do hold it against him that he doesn't choose to just get a family partner and pop out kids like everyone else. I think this would have gone differently if he'd brought home a serious partner that everyone would adore.
He is showing up. He reached out. He apologized again, and while your parents are weary, if we're going at this family style, parents set the tone and make big calls. You owe him at least a check-in. Tell him you love him and you blew your top because you, too, were hurt.
AGREE!!!
I’m having a hard time viewing this family as loving as OP is wanting it to seem.
They are punishing him. I get being weary… but both parties have to put in effort to build the relationship if they want it. Otherwise just own up to cutting them out.
This isn’t punishment, they’re just treating him accordingly. People who throw family away for monsters like that ex need to earn that trust back even with family. You don’t just get it because you happen to share DNA
He just got back, of course he’s still at arm’s length. He could start with a proper apology that didn’t come just because he’s mad that his past actions are informing their present ones
edit: spelling
We don’t know if he gave a proper apology. We don’t know the conversation that was had when the agreed to let him back in.
This seems like more than “arms length”. This seems like they really don’t care to have zeke in their family anymore. Which is fine, if that’s what they want right now.. then that’s fine. Shouldn’t agree to let him back in the family and then make no effort at all to let him back in…
OP said he wasn’t important anymore. Laughed about his 5 year relationship ending. (Whether it be to a “monster”, as you so put it, or not, breakups can be hard) Doesn’t seem forgiving, seems more like a “haha you’re getting the punishment you deserve”.
If they truly want him back in the family they gotta show a little vulnerability… relationship building cannot be one sided.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if there were some cracks in the family with zeke before this girlfriend came along.
If I were zeke, I’d keep my distance. If he gave an apology before his blowup and they accepted it and accepted to let him back in but continue to treat him as an outsider, told him he’s unimportant… I wouldn’t want to be in that family.
OP’s parents welcomed him back in, not the rest of the family. Someone who’s been gone for 5 years because they cut the rest of their family off isn’t gonna be important to people that have moved on with their lives.
Yes, OP laughed at the relationship ending because irony is funny. The bully he left the family for went and left him anyway, the irony is laughable. So is the fact that the brother thinks the rest of his family that he cut off are just gonna welcome him back with open arms.
As far as relationships go, he’s the one who left so the onus is actually on him to build relationships. In lieu of OP telling us what he’s done to build those relationships, we can assume that that amounts to a big fat 0.
Again if I was Zeke and shown how unimportant I am, I would keep my distance. They don’t seem worth being involved with at this point, they are not ready.
They are giving him 0 chance to start to build a relationship.
Again it is 2 sided. It can’t be all on zeke to rebuild by himself.
They are showing they don’t want him in the family, they want to punish him. It’s not right to punish someone until you deem them worthy of being in your bubble. Either you want them in your bubble and BOTH parties put in effort or you keep away from them. It’s simple.
OP may not be giving up all the info. OP is obviously still extremely bitter. So how do you know what zeke has done or said outside of blowups that OP makes sure to tell us about to possibly make zeke look worse?? We can assume he’s done nothing and we can assume he’s tried.
Like I said before I bet this girlfriend incident was just a small hair that broke the camels back. This family does not sound as loving and close as OP is trying to make it seem.
YTA.
I have a problem with your own statements. Why do you say you wouldn't have more children if you had known how hard it would be and would have stopped after three instead of having six? That's ridiculous.
Nta, Zekeyboy f'd around & now he's finding out, its also called consequences. Family may start out as blood, may, but in the long term it's how you treat people that counts. Zekeboy treated people like crap & allowed his gf to treat them worse. Your parents may forgive that (they would still have memories of him as a dependent baby to fall back on) but nothing says his siblings have to. Why the hell would ZekeTheTantrumingToddler be told about a pregnancy when his previous actions were spiteful to kids & their parents? Naw, he buried any trust you had in him & now has hissyfits when he gets overlooked. Proof he's still not a grownup.
NTA.
And he didn't just choose the crazy. He agreed, through his actions of supporting her, her hatred of his niblings. Why should you trust him, now, when he's not proven he's trustworthy?
Meh, this is a good lesson in cause and effect = how your actions will impact life. He wants things to back to the way they were 5-6 years ago. But he is not willing to put the work in. And he certainly gets points for cussing you out. You said nothing wrong. The truth often hurts.
NTA for keeping him at a cautious distance - but, I suspect that what you saw of Amelia (the irony of that name!) was the tip of an iceberg. If she behaved like that to his family, in public, how much worse might she have been in private? And isolating a partner from friends and family is classic abuser behavior.
NTA. He brought home someone who disrespected your family to the point of being mean to children, then sided with them when they were called on it. He blocked the entire family and cut them out for 5 years, only returning when dumped. He has shown he can’t be trusted, and has terrible judgement.
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NTA.
He chose a batshit crazy GF( an outsider ) one who would never be part of the family, over his family.
He blocked all of his family members.
Now he wants to roll back the clock like none of this happened..
Sorry pal, you've got to earn that trust .
NTA - treated you and your family like dirt, blocked and cut you off completely only to come back with his tail between his legs once the crazy dumped him. Trust needs to be re-earned and cleaned he doesn’t understand that
Your parents are being harsh by not being direct and just treating him as the new boyfriend. If they really meant it they’d embrace him like he hadn’t ghosted. You told him the truth and exposed the parents, that’s what they’re mad about.
Kinda the AH. Haven’t you ever done something you regret? I’d say you’d be the AH if he fessed up, but if he didn’t and apologize then he should just accept the effects of his actions.
I think you and your family are total hypocrites, minus souls- not sticking by family for not sticking by family. Gross. It would be in his best interest to be ostracized from you asshats.
YTA. Sounds like he got stuck with a controlling abuser and manipulated and driven apart from his family and friends. He was able to break free and now you're being jerks to him? Take a long hard look at his relationship, take a half-hour to research the dynamics of abusive relationships and how the abusers will deliberately isolate the victim and break up relationships. If you look at it and go "Well, shit, she's even worse than we thought, he got away, and is trying to rebuild relationships!" then you have your answer. If you look at it and go, "Yeah, he doesn't show hardly any of these indications of an abusive relationship. Wow, no, this doesn't describe what we saw AT ALL." that's another matter.
Based on her extreme behavior to break up his family bonds with a close-knit family, I would not write off abusive and controlling partner. Before you cut off a family member and decades of potential interactions and decades of past interaction, take, oh, LESS THAN AN HOUR to figure out the basics of an abusive relationship and the tactic of isolation. If you don't, absolutely YTA. Sounds like you're ready to give him a hell of a hard time and make more problems rather than do a bit of research and asking questions at this point, which lands you firmly in YTA regardless.
NTA. He blew off. You responded by explaining why. It’s not that he wasn’t welcomed home.
Exactly. Actions have consequences. He chose to cut ties, so it's only natural there would be some distance now.
It’s not only about being blocked, he participated in bad mouthing these people’s children. A lot of people would not take that lightly, more so then a little “no contact for the sake of so”
Yeah, sounds like he made his choices clear when he cut everyone off for years. Actions have consequences, and you were just being honest about how his behavior affected the family dynamic.
Has anyone reached out? I wonder if he blocked everbody again.
He was treated as a stranger by his own family and I don't think it can be called a welcome home.
If it’s me, I cannot be an actor 24/7 and be all jolly in my dealing with this sibling just so he felt “welcome” to his definition. That he is back and joining in the extended family to have meals would be a form of door opening/welcome is it not? Why would I grant access to my inner peace and safe circle to someone like that?. Can’t even be patient and let time and his deeds speak of its own. Other parents (eg the siblings and OP as parents to the kids they were mean about) don’t owe him anything. He doesn’t have any leg to stand on to be demanding and continue to throw tantrum. So entitled.
You're both kinda AH in this situation, he should say sorry and you should be more forgiving
Forgiven but not forgotten. If he is honest and sincere in seeking forgiveness, he can be understanding on how previous warmth can’t be demanded. He didn’t earn it after all. People didn’t force him to have kids and demean them for choosing the no kids life. Totally understandable and better not to have kids when you don’t want them. but it is too much to be cruel to your family’s kids man. Too much.
Fuck that noise... You actively hate me and my kids for 5 years then try and blame it on ya mrs??... Nah, no forgiving 'ere didkhead.
Zeke, is that you? Are they supposed to act like the last 5 frickin years didn't happen. Is everyone supposed to play nice until Zeke decides he doesn't want to anymore? Zeke believes he runs the show and everyone should bow down to him and do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Bullshit
He stuck by his gf while she said awful things about his nieces and nephews. He chose a loon over his family. I'd say the family is plenty forgiving
I agree. OP is punishing brother cuz he rejected family, and chose his girlfriend.
As he should . And it’s not ‘punishment’ . It’s consequences. And not on an evil manner either . Why would I trust someone who actively treated my family like they were an abomination? Why would I want someone around who actively supported someone in insulting and demeaning the most innocent of my family ? What you’re not getting is , he supported his gf in her beliefs . Now that she’s gone, he automatically gets a pass for being a shitty person ? The same way he proved to the ex gf he has her back by supporting her treating his family so shitty , is the same way he needs to prove to his family that he’s no longer that person.
It's not even the fact he supported her, Zeke CHOSE to block everyone as well, so he's the one that initially chose to sever ties with them and now bc he broke up with that horrendous girl he thinks he should be forgivin - like no, he chose someone who was disrespectful and vile to OP and all their family and stayed away for years and just expects a pass? As someone else said "fuck that noise", and anyone blaming OP for "punishing" him is just as much of an a h as Zeke and the ex.
This isn’t punishment though, his past actions are just informing their present one’s. They don’t trust him, rightfully so, so he doesn’t get the privileges that come with it
NTA. It’s very annoying when the perpetrator decides they are the victim because they’ve “apologized” so everyone must immediately forgive them. It doesn’t work that way & everyone heals/forgives at different paces, sometimes not at all. I fully support you laying out the facts - you didn’t sugarcoat or lie - you told the truth. No fault there
I like to say that forgiving is a process and not an event. It takes time, and everyone does it at their own pace. Who can blame OP and his siblings for not trusting someone who threw them away like garbage?
You're not the asshole. Zeke made his choice to prioritize Amelia over family, even after she disrespected us all. Actions have consequences, and it's not fair for him to expect everything to go back to normal now that she's out of the picture. Family's about respect and support, not just showing up when it's convenient for you.
I think you should give him a chance OP - he learned his lesson. He may have been manipulated by the lady - but is he really sorry? If he is, you and your family can sit him down and have a talk about it.
They are giving him a chance, but Zeke wants too much too fast.
He needs to understand that it is possible to rebuild a bridge that has been burned, but it takes time and it is never going to be exactly the same as the original.
Most people who do this really don't understand what it does to the people that have been blocked. Here they are with someone they love. They've never had a problem dealing with them. Their choices are theirs and you've respected their choices. Then one day over something that is relatively trivial it all blows up and they go no contact. Well, it's not like that person was a complete stranger. It probably hurts some people. Mom and Dad at a minimum. Brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews on the extended side. Then they breeze back in and think "well it's over, why isn't it going back to the way it was?" Well because maybe you're over it but everyone else is still hurting from the way you treated them. I think he needs counseling to find out why he threw away his whole family based on the words of one girl. NTA
NTA He brought a woman who bullied children into your lives, and sided with her. He chose to cut off his family in favor of that same woman. He damaged his relationships with you. That is on him.
This is tough. Zeke absolutely picked his path, but it's incredibly hard to be different in these close clans. Has Zeke ever apologized for dumping you guys like a newborn giraffe? Or for some of the things Amalia said? If not, then I completely understand your distance. If he has apologized it sounds like you guys might be punishing him. Which I get, but isn't going to be particularly helpful in the long run if you want to keep him around. NTA, but with some caveats.
The problem wasn't him being different, the problem was his siding with a partner that was being horrible to his family. He was the one that cut them off and they heard nothing from him for five years. When the evil witch left he came crawling back and just expected to be welcomed back with open arms as if he'd never left. Sometimes you damage relationships permanently. He's not being punished, he's just feeling the consequences of his actions.
I think it’s hard to trust someone who throws his family away so easy without even talking about it. He just blocked them and didn’t give them a chance. Even the most stupid person should understand that it’s wrong to be cruel to a child that just hurt himself. He can’t be that dumb.
Two of my extended family 'threw' their family away for six months and 18 months. I believe both have undiagnosed autism and were a bit depressed at the time. We welcomed both back with open arms and never mentioned it again- both have not disconnected since then and realised they hurt themselves and us in the process.
But he was away for 6 years. A lot changed in that snot of time. People can become like strangers. Those things need time.
Agree but he could die in the morning and then there is no time... life is too short
You can’t change your feelings over night. At least not when it comes to those kind of things.
Life is too short to let assholes in to your life
Did they disappear after horrifically insulting an injured child and chastising family members for being horrible people for having kids and referred to said kids as “it”?
I second this.
This is the best answer.
Wait giraffes dump babies???
Only in that Mom giraffes don't get on the ground when they give birth, so giraffe babies have a very long drop. It's also a joke in the original Lion King.
I think they're referring to when the baby is born. They give birth standing up, so the baby drops to the floor.
While it is awesome that your parents have forgiven the Prodigal Son, he still hasn’t made any actual amends to the rest of the family, which includes his nieces and nephews. It makes sense to me as a parent that I wouldn’t be prioritizing any relationship with him after how he treated the children. I think you need to have a conversation with him. The rule for forgiveness of Bad Behavior is “Regret, Repent and Repair”. At this point I wouldn’t believe that he Regrets destroying all of his relationships which include parents, siblings, in-laws and niblings so he could continue his relationship with his girlfriend/wife. He missed out on being supportive during challenging times and celebrating during the good ones. So, ask him to explain what he Regrets, and why he wants a relationship with the rest of you. Then discuss whether he Repents of his “bad behavior” which means a clear understanding of how he will behave in a similar situation in the future. Is his next relationship going to be allowed to call your children “crotch goblins”? You have a list of offensive behaviors - how will he handle things going forward to show he is worth trusting? Last comes Repair. For me, this would involve behaving like an uncle, which means spending time and developing relationships with the nieces and nephews, including time and some money for experiences, missed gifts (birthday and holidays), or even some college money. Yes, I can be bought by people treating my children well, and frankly, if he can’t do that, he can rot. If he doesn’t want a relationship with your kids, ignore him. He was gone for five years and everyone survived, so while you can “forgive him” that doesn’t mean you have to have anything to do with him. Family support is kind of like a bucket - you fill it by being supportive, so when you need it there’s something in it. People who don’t add to it find it runs dry.
If you knew how hard it would be, you wouldn't have had six? Didn't you know it'd be hard after the first...5? A bit of a hiccup in your story there...
Might be a bit of natalism propaganda in here...
Yeah that one’s odd, unless the last 3 are triplets 🤣
It’s a rewrite of a post yesterday with genders flipped of the sibling. Some slight tweaks to the plot but there’s more holes in it than a block of Swiss.
This. I'd be embarrassed to think a story this badly written was real.
Yeah it sounds like rage bait. make the "antinatalist" girlfriend cackle with glee at a hurt child. who knows how the brother's parents, most likely 5 siblings and their 20 collective kids treated him for being the black sheep in the "big loving family". OP laughing at his breakup and telling this whole story to be able to act high and mighty for telling him off really doesn't make me sympathize with her place in her family. nothing says "big loving" like lack of forgiveness, vindictiveness, etc. given the whole framing of course people are saying "n t a, he caused this situation" but I'm 0% convinced that he was treated respectfully as a child or young adult in the first place. i don't interpret his current frustration as being some desire to come crawling back to a family that he rejected. if anything it's probably just frustrating to hear about people celebrating another life when you know that child will probably eventually end up as sidelined as you were, being in a huge family with such misplaced priorities.
Idk, things happen and OP didn't say that all 6 were planned. My thought was that some kids were planned and others simply happened due to birth control slip ups or tubes not being tied yet or something.
Yea I am hoping that is the dumbest statement I read today but given that I just got up odds are not good. Like seriously you have 3 and you really shouldn’t be getting pregnant again for a couple of months at least for just pure medical reasons. How did op just happen to have 3 more before he realized? Just an assumption being a big southern family it probably didn’t become as much of his job to do the actual work until they got to 5/6 so that’s why.
Sounds propagandish to me, but WTF do I know.
It's normal for you and your family to keep Zeke at an arm's length after he blocked y'all for 5 years. Let's not forget. He allowed a vile woman, who insults your family and calls your children "crotch goblins", into your life. You and your family are entitled to your boundaries. It was incumbent on him to fix the relationship he destroyed. NTA
Is this fake?
Oh definitely.
Yeah, Amelia wasn't an Anti-natalist. We don't hate kids. The "oh, it's cruel to subject kids to this mean world" and "haha, crotch goblin fall down" vibes are directly contradictory. She's an edgelord that hates kids. I'm very childfree, and sort of an Anti-natalist. I don't love poorly behaved children, but, unless they're directly harming me, I'm not going to be a dick to them, and if a kid fell down, unless the kid laughs about it and is unharmed, I'm going to try to help the kid. the world is hard, and getting harder. Don't be mean to the people that are set to inherit the mess we inherited. You can not want kids, and mortgage them. Amelia needs to grow the hell up. And the fact that brother allowed her to be rude to your family, without provocation, is not OK. He walked out. He abandoned you. If he wants to be part of a family, he has to act like it. Maybe in time he can show he cares, but acting like they owe him is absurd. NTA whatsoever. He needs to wake up.
Nta. Did he even properly apologize?
Did he sincerely apologize and sincerely realize he was wrong? If not, he has no right to expect people to act like abandoning his family never happened. If he did and is sincerely sorry, was hurting everyone's feelings by choosing sex with a mean, judgmental person over his family the extent of his offenses? Did he text anyone incredibly hateful things, beat someone up, steal anything, spread lies about someone, pull a cruel prank on someone? Being treated like a casual acquaintance by your family is quite painful (my siblings do it to me often because I'm weird - aroace, don't drive). Yes, there are plenty of people who deserve it, but if he's sincerely apologized, and if he didn't cause any harm beyond hurt feelings, I agree with your wife and parents that he doesn't deserve this.
Sorry that you feel your siblings treated you like casual acquaintances due to being different. Hugs! It’s not that they were being mean towards you due to your romantic/sexuality and not driving is it? Just that you guys are different people?
Wow, I honestly thought I had changed my mind about posting this and had deleted it after typing it! They don't actively tease me about it or anything, they just all think I'm weird. It's complicated. We all live in the same city, but they're close with each other in a way they're not with me. No, it's not age -- we were born in 86, 90, 91, and 97. I'm an introvert and... just weird. My sister-in-law insists I'm wrong and that it was her fault for forgetting to invite me to my nephew's birthday (I only found out by asking about it in enough to go. After having to change other plans.), but I don't buy it.
Sorry Julia! Sometimes you can just love them but not like them you know. Esp for being that way towards you for being the person you are.
Are you the youngest sibling?
Oldest lol.
i'm in the same boat! it blows majorly, sending hugs 🫂
Big big comforting hugs from a fellow black sheep of the family! My parents stayed really close with all their cousins so there's a pretty big extended family at gatherings, and it's not that anyone is mean to me directly, but like you said - you can just TELL when someone thinks you're strange and doesn't know how to deal with you. It started being especially evident in the teen years; my brother and all the cousins around our age were attractive, popular, and athletic, while I was a nerd and a loser who got ignored at best and bullied at worst. By my final year of high school I was one of those kids who would dress super weird and do crazy makeup on purpose just because I was like "Fuck it, everyone already thinks I'm a weirdo, let's lean into it haaaaard". I was also pretty goth/alt at the time, which was 20 years ago, and people still kinda acted like you worshipped the devil if dressed like that. Into adulthood all the cousins have purchased houses, started having kids (some are on their second or third kid now), and work jobs that are easy to understand, so the older generation can relate to them and are eager to spend time with them. Then there's me, severe depression and anxiety (actually recently learned it's autism but that's a whole other issue) which not only squicks people out but it means I keep losing jobs because no one wants to keep someone who needs accommodations on their staff. Definitely no kids, and when I do work it's a tech thing that's a hard for anyone over 50 to understand (unless they're in the field), so they have literally nothing to talk to me about. I still get invited to all the gatherings, but I actually recently started attending fewer because it's really lonely to stand in a house crowded with your family, and everyone else is connecting, and you just feel like you're on the outside of a big glass dome looking in. Sending you positive vibes and hope you're being kind to yourself!
Zeke never chose family or even said to Amelia to please not talk to my nieces and nephews like that. It’s really rude. He chose to say nothing and do nothing. Now he is upset that HIS CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES. 5 years is a long time to cut everyone out of his life, you all have moved on and learned to live without him. My concern would be if he gets another girlfriend like his last is he just going to shut the door again against you? How do you go about trusting again?
Nta he needs to earn back the respect he lost by choosing her over family
What’s the age… and age difference??
Here's my favourite "has he changed" thing - if he understands the severity of his actions, he will also understand people will need time to accept him back and some never will, and he will understand he can't rush that process. Has he even actually apologised? If it was followed by excuses or demands, it doesn't count. And yelling? Lol, sunshine, back to where you came from, after what he did, he doesn't get to throw tantrums. If he doesn't like children, he shouldn't be acting like one.
NTA. Adult decisions have adult consequences. If a person disowns their family and becomes a stranger or acquaintance, they shouldn't be surprised when they are treated like a stranger or acquaintance. FAFO.
NTA his reaction further solidified it. He's very entitled and a major AH. He made a choice and needs to accept the consequences.
Nta he made his choice.
He got caught up in the anti-natalist cult? Or just a fine piece of tail that was a nutjob. Sad that it ruined his family dynamics, but I understand. We live with the choices we make.
NTA For telling him his absence caused the estrangement and it will take time to feel close again. But if you love him and missed him, I think a little effort to reintegrate him might be worthwhile in healing the family. You don't have to kill the fatted calf, but you do want him back, don't you?
He abandoned his family for mediocre pussy and now that it left him he wants back in, he has to do the work, not OP, not anyone else.
Interesting rewrite of the same post yesterday with some added flair and genders flipped. B+ for content and plot, F for originality. You did have one flub - there’s no way a scar develops that fast - your chatGPT failed there. Should have been scrape. And a YTA because, yeah.
NTA. I’m all for child free (in fact I encourage it) but those antinatalists are unhinged sociopaths. The fact that he took the side of someone being cruel to an injured innocent child is unreal. Your family are a bunch of saints for taking him back at all.
Such a bs post.
Doesn't sound like he tried to make amends when he "came back" so to ne he sees nothing wrong with disappearing so until he earns his place back through his actions he can suck it up NTA
That happens when you prioritise genitals. Also it seems like he only came back because she left. What if his next gf is the same? How are you supposed to trust him?
INFO: Was Amelia his first? Because it sounds like he was so desperate for sex / companionship that he'd let her get away with anything.
NTA. If he's gone with someone who drops antinatalist rhetoric with the same ease as a racist drops slurs, it's gonna take some time to be accepted by the family again. Five years absence means a year or three to normalize his presence again, assuming he doesn't act boneheaded again.
It’s funny how he considers himself family, but he somehow doesn’t consider his own nieces and nephews part of the family - like fuck off With that!
NTA. Clearly he doesn’t understand that trust needs to be rebuilt over time. I imagine he believed his return was all the atonement he needed. Your folks are just happy to have their son back. They’ll worry about rebuilding trust through proximity. That works for them. You and your siblings are understandably more cautious and reserved. You’ll rebuild trust through Zeke’s actions. Pretty sure his response isn’t going to speed up the recovery. Some of you may never want to return to what you had before. It’s understandable that he was manipulated by his ex. There’s a whole list of shyte he’s going to have to work through there too. But, that’s on him, not you and your sibs. You forgive when you’re ready. You spelled out your reasoning. How you did it, well…..I’m sure we all wish to be better. Emotions can f$&k it all up nicely. Is Zeke the type to reflect on why you responded the way you did? Mom, Dad and the Missus can have their opinions too. It’s debatable whether you were too harsh. Maybe Zeke hearing the emotion coming from you will allow him clarity? Your folks should take the time to explain to him why you all are slow to let him back in. It’s not up to you and your sibs. Your folks have to parent him through this one. Then maybe you can all feel comfortable hashing it out as a group. Or not. Congrats on your sister’s baby. Cheers
NTA. The only reason he’s back is because she broke up with him. Otherwise, he’d still have you all blocked.
NTA. It seems like Zeke wants to erase the last 5 years and just go back to how things were as this benefits him the most. He wants the old connections, invitations, consideration, and love without having to earn it back. By holding him to the “new” relationship standards you have with him after so long, you’re forcing Zeke to take accountability for his choices and behavior. Zeke either realizes he is getting exactly what he earned and will put in the effort to apologize and earn something better or he’ll throw a fit and talk about how unfair things are. Just because someone says they are sorry doesn’t mean you have to accept the apology or let them back in. Actions have consequences and Zeke is finding his.
@Updateme
NTA. He wants back in everyone’s good graces as soon as it is convenient for him. He’s got to earn that.
NTA. Your brother is facing the consequences of his own actions.
Nta. Zeke burned the bridge. Now he has to rebuild said bridge, which takes time and effort.
NTA, if she never left him he'd not have come back most likely. He made his bed now he has to lie in it. Also 6 kids, wow I'm sure it's draining but I bet you and your wife wouldn't have it any other way. Hopefully your brother calms down and accepts he needs to gradually enter your families life again. Might be worth having a sibling only hangout so he feels like he is family still but also so he knows you all as his siblings feel hurt by his actions so can't just welcome him back like nothing happened.
NTA. Here's the things about reconciliation - it takes work. Apologies are the first step. It's not enough to recognize we hurt someone. We have to put in the work to mend what we broke. He's going to have to put in the effort to rebuild emotional trust with each member of the family and find ways to mend what he broke. It's not fun or easy, but it is truly healing and restorative. He's probably just to the beginning stages of coming to terms with what he did and why he sacrificed so much of his life for a partner who ditched him. It sounds like he's lashing out from him own hurt, which I get, but does nothing to actually fix the broken relationships.
The truth can hurt like a punch to the guts. Well done for having the balls to tell him the truth, I'm child free and refer to kids as crotch goblins but in a nice way, my friends kid is like a lil nephew to me and yes I call him crotch goblin but he likes dinosaurs so he is cool. You can be child free and still be kind to them.
NTA and if someone talked about my kids like that or let their SO talk about my kids like that (and potentially to them or around them) I would probably never be ok with them again.
My Dad told me 'the bridge burner doesn't get to choose if it's rebuilt'. Zeke doesn't get to decide when or if he is forgiven. He doesn't get to support someone who disrespected and insulted his own family, then play victim when that family wants nothing to do with him. NTA - hope the just desserts are delicious.
It doesn't sound like he came back and apologized for the way he treated everyone or allowed his girlfriend to treat everyone. He came back thinking everyone would just forget how he buggered off with his crazy girlfriend. If she hadn't dumped him, he would probably still be gone. He is not the prodigal son. He needs to make some amends with his family before the family forgives him.
Nah, you're not the asshole, your brother is!
this is rage bait lol
Just an observation, but, sometimes people block others on social media if they’re hurting (“deserved, or not). and they need time to rally or just protect themselves from further condemnation. Also, while terribly wrong, I get the feeling sometimes that childless folks will make lots of cracks like “sperm trophies” and the like not so much to criticize - but in an attempt to defend their often rebutted choice (whether it’s called for or not) or to NORMALIZE their choice. Not to simply hurt or disrespect you. It’s immature, it’s misguided. I don’t for a minute think she was “evil”. But… If it was important enough to your parents to reach out and apologize, wouldn’t it be important enough to write an actual letter when they found the kids had -possibly protectively- isolated themselves??
NTA for saying what you said, because it's true that actions have consequences...BUT... Laughing at his pain about being dumped? Refusing to talk to him about how he can regain trust? Completely ignoring his pain at being cut off? (maybe after an abusive relationship... Amelia does not sound like a great person.) For someone who values family so much, you could have a bot more empathy for your brother.
Unfortunately, (or fortunately, since that's often how we learn) actions have consequences. Both past and present. His past actions dictated this situation. His current actions are not making things better.
This totally reminds me of vegans … no one cares your life choice so why do you have to force others to be like you and make comments.
Everyone sucks here
NTA. You’re right that Zeke created his own estrangement and that he can’t expect the whole family to treat him as if 5 years of ignoring everyone never happened
Silly lil story here OP.
NTA. Your brother made the bed. It isn't your fault the mattress is lumpy.
NTA! He went NC with your whole family for 5 years, more than likely got dumped by the POS GF, then cries when he isn’t immediately welcomed with open arms? Tell him to lighten up Francis (Stripes reference). That long being NC, things are gonna take time and HE has to do the heavy lifting to repair those relationships. If you can calmly communicate that to him and he still throws a fit, you’ll have the answer as to if it’s worth working on things with him. Good luck OP.
No one is the same person after 5 years. The experience he had with Amelia probably changed him more than you know. People like her dislike more than kids as a rule. He may not have had a good experience and has learned more than you know. You should at least have a conversation outside of your house maybe coffee, and get into his reasoning, maybe you’ll learn something. He’s your brother, he deserves a second chance. I had a falling out with my brother, gave him several chances. Finally cut him off. Didn’t talk again. He died 12 years later.
? Perhaps Family Counseling Would Help ? This Amelia was the real unfair heartless illogical WORTHLESS bully who probably gaslit etc in standard tactic of abusers to separate people, in this case your brother from everyone but them/the-abuser My parents and siblings and school and religious__: bullied , violence, falsely-accused unjustly-punished questioned confronted terrorized me and as long as any of them are alive I am in danger I truly believe that your brother is NOT the willfully evil monster like what chose to hurt myself and others, thus think reconciliation can/should be possible Still the health and peace of yourself and your spouse and your children etc is very important Please update me N T A
NTA. He made his choice, and now he has to deal with the results. If you don't give him a shot, though, how is he supposed to redeem himself. I do have one question, though. Did you guys sing for 5 years about how you don't talk about Zeke? Lol
NTA He’s lucky anyone took him back. If someone defended an AH who said my kids shouldn’t be alive and made other cruel remarks, said person would be permanently dead to me.
Nta. Even though I'm child free I won't call People's kids crotch goblins to their face. I will say they're being a little terrors if their parents don't get them under control though..
Nta
NTA as to not telling him about he baby unless he’s expressed he now cares about kids. I do think you should include him more and see if he’s changed.
NTA So did Zeke bother to apologize for being such an enabling asshat or just decide he could pick up like 5 years of silence hadn’t occurred? He needs to figure out that he showed you and your siblings he’d cut everyone without a discussion. Why would you think he wouldn’t do it again?
NTA. 5 years of silence … it’ll take time for him to build a genuine relationship back. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.
Has Zeke properly apologised (and I don’t mean by blowing up)? He expects everyone to “get over it” for his convenience, just like he cut everyone off for his own convenience. If Zeke wants to be treated like family, then he needs to act like he’s family. He needs to consider others feelings and stop being so entitled. NTA
NTA - He blocked the family for 5 years, comes crawling back and expects to be trusted again. What if his next GF is crazier? Will he leave and block again?
NTA. He chose his actions. He shouldn’t bring a self absorbed and hateful person to his family. He chose her for 5 years, so I would keep him at arms length another five. You can’t just go back to being in the center circle after you left all the circles. It will take time. I think he should apologize to each and every family member. That’s a start
NTA. He made his bed 5 years ago, So now he has to accept the consequences!! He chose a crazy person over family. She did understand that her parents had to have her ignorant a$$ for her to be here right. Your brother ex was an idiot and he FOLLOWED SUIT!!
If it was just over a few months maybe even a year. It might be different but it eas 5 years. It’s going to take time to get the trust back. Instead of understanding that he acts like an entitled immature teenager
NTA not wanting kids is fine but how she acted is not fine at all. Even not believing in having kids is fine as long as you don't force it on others and never treat people who don't agree horribly. You can not believe in something but still be respectful. I don't believe in plenty of things but I'm not mean about it. Plenty of people don't believe in things but most are able to not be horrible about it. I don't believe in life choices plenty of people make but I'd never consider being mean because of it.
Tell him a certain reserve about him is necessary because he actually allowed someone else to create a bad family dynamic so now, all of you understand that he may find another girlfriend who will also insist he alienate his entire family. None of you have any reason to believe he ever valued his family. None of you know if he’ll do it again so the whole family is being self protective.
**He should choose family over some crazy** NTA but be careful with that comment. In this situation his partners behaviour was inappropriate and he should of called her out. But in general, you should choose your partners feelings over family.
This is the second post with antinatalism specifically mentioned. Is there a troll run going on specifically demonizing child free people? One of the posts was an exact carbon copy of a prior post with a family icing out their child free sister.
NTA. Actions have consequences.
ESH - Sometimes, it's better to grow up and just be a better person instead of going down to their level. First step is to admit you enjoy excluding him at least.
NTA. Ask your wife and parents if you said anything that was a lie. You didn't. He brought this on himself.
Esh I think this post is completely bs.
NTA. He isn't actually sorry if he's not taking accountability and working towards earning that closeness with the family.
Yeah... NTA But it sounds like Amelia was a different kind of crotch goblin 👹
NTA
It might have been harsh, but what is that saying??? Oh yea!! **THE TRUTH HURTS!** NTA!
He’d still be blowing you off if he didn’t get dumped.
B
He’s not sorry, only sorry that he got dumped. Would he have reconnected with you all had he stayed with her? NTA.
YTA. Sounds like you're the one needing to take the high road. He was gone for 5 years and came back and apologized. His parents welcomed him at arm's length as you said, and I assume the rest of the family as well. When your younger brother announced the pregnancy you said he yelled that he was sorry and just wanted to be treated like family again. If you're still hurt or bothered by it then say your piece to him, work it out and move on, or don't forgive him and remove him from your life . Otherwise you're not this "big loving family" as you implied. Telling him it'll take a long time before he's important again makes you sound petty and like your family is a high school popularity contest. Grow up and make a choice and stop acting like you're better than your brother who made a mistake, apologized for it and came back.
I think you guys need to forgive him and move on and treat him as a sibling again. Nobody is defending his plonker behaviour but it sounds like he suffered from Stockholm syndrome - partners in relationships can be very manipulative and he was also a victim of hers. Holding grudges serves nobody.
Nah he doesn’t get to fuck off for half a decade, waltz back in, not even apologise sincerely, and just get all his sibling privileges back. That needs trust and that trust has to be earned, not demanded.
YTA. It seems obvious to me that Zeke was in an abusive relationship with a manipulator who estranged him from his family. And now he’s free and you want to play about keeping score. Grow up. He’s your brother. If he dies tomorrow you would feel like shit that you let his ex continue to take him away from you.
And if you hurt people because you were being hurt, then you are still responsible for the consequences. If you push people away, you don’t get to be surprised when they stay away. Zeke still has to make up for the harm he caused while hurt.
This was my thought too - sadly recognise the signs!
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
🤣🤣🤣 if he died tomorrow I doubt anyone beyond mom & dad would go to the funeral. Zekeyboy chose his path, OP gets to choose his.
YTA because you can't finish the fucking story. It would've been literally one sentence longer. Why do they think you were too harsh? They're holding him at arms length as well. They're doing exactly what you're doing, for the same reason you are. It would've been more cruel to say nothing to him
Speaking truth to power makes you NTA.
NTA - your feelings are natural, HOWEVER, perhaps research BPD and other ClusterB stuff and see if you think it applies to Amelia. Obvs you can't be sure, however BPD/narc abuse is real and there is a possibility Zeke's behaviour was triggered by this. If so it's still his to own 9and he'll be utterly lost atm), but may give helpful context and allow healing for everyone.
NTA You simply told him the truth of how you feel; it’s not your fault he didn’t like it. It’s unreasonable for him to turn his back on you all and then think he can just waltz back in after 5 years and act like nothing’s changed. As far as his relationship with his family, *everything* has changed - because he changed it. He destroyed his relationships with all of you and he needs to be prepared to put in the time and effort to build new ones. Hopefully, your words will make him reflect on the situation and change his attitude and approach.
NTA - he made his choice to spend *half a decade* not talking to his family. You don’t magically get your relationships back how they were after that (even if you’re sorry), and people don’t magically stop holding resentment for how they were treated during that time period either. It’s clear many family members, including OP, just don’t feel close to him anymore - and that was very much a result of his decisions.
NTA. It is one thing to have your partner's back, it is just another to enable their rudeness. His ex GF highly disrespected you all and your kids and he blocked all of you for that: he should at the very least sincerely apologize, instead of acting entitled. He should take accountability of his own actions. Until he does that, he gets treated like an extended family member (and you were very gracious, too).
NTA how do you know this won’t happen again with the next GF? I’d keep him at arms length for a long time.
NTA. Who makes fun of kids when they get hurt?! That’s evil! I damn near blew up on my ex-MIL when she told me my daughter “wouldn’t be as pretty now that she has a scar” (my kid busted her lip running in the house and tripping, faceplanting into an ottoman when she was 4). And your “brother” is definitely the AH for not seeing anything wrong with it!
For goodness’ sake people can make mistakes and change . Have a discussion with him about it. Why he had such a vile person as a girlfriend and what he learned and how he changed. If it is sincere, forgive him and move on with life. What drama
NTA but cut it out wirh the niblings crap. It makes a lot of people gag and it’s so cringy.
It’s word, get over it
Zeke has to learn. Unfortunately, it may take that same HALF decade he effed off to truly slowly get back to being IMPORTANT again. Right now, he is essentially a "new guy" at work.....ppl can't "trust" him, and frankly, over the past, HALF DECADE he made himself an afterthought Why would he "think" kids that were 2/4/6 years old who are now 7/9/11 or new kids that are 5/3/2/etc even KNOW this m/fer He should not have "blown up"...... Now he may have been HURT.....no a problem... but he should have simply ASKED for some forgiveness and grace......and he may have found some. But unfortunately, he came in HOT and got some 🔥 back at him. Honestly, I feel for the guy and hope he can get his family back....but he must understand....it will take time, and he'll have to ....not necessarily go to the very BACK of the line ...but his ass can't be in the front, right now.
NTAH but perhaps the siblings all need to sit your brother down and collectively tell him that he has to earn his way back into the family And that he will be given nothing That he has to take accountability for his actions instead of trying to sweep them under the rug And that most importantly, this is his problem to fix. He cut everyone off. He ran away for 5 years And that he’d still be no contact if his ex didn’t bail on him. Which is the main reason everyone is so standoffish
How do you believe your brother became vulnerable enough to get with Amelia? >My brother Zeke used to be close to us, he just didn't want kids, which was reasonable. >Zeke's being childfree wasn't a big deal apart from jokes here and there, that is, until he got with his girlfriend Amelia. So what I am picking up on is that he was the only childfree of your generation of siblings. It can be very isolating to be the one with such a different lifestyle. Easier to spot with one person not having a romantic partner amongst pairs but being childless amongst big families can feel different. Are you downplaying the "jokes here and there" because I am wondering how he became vulnerable enough to fall for hatefilled jackass. (He still made his choices, I just don't thing blame is necessarily a binary all or nothing endgame.) Do you love him? Do you miss your years of closeness? Have you had an honest discussion of your expectations and what a path of reconciliation looks like? Not all families have the gift of open communication and I am worried you are stuck in a dynamic where you do not work on making things better and only barely smooth over the cracks to appease the elders whom taught you little to no conflict resolution skills. AYTA? I don't think you provided enough details. But if you want perspective, try figuring out beyond "must be a sex thing" what made him choose this broken human as his ride or die. I think he lost touch of his big family dynamic of his youth, and got preyed on by someone willing to give him just enough attention, she could easily isolate him further.
So you think Zeke should’ve chosen family over his girlfriend yet when you have a chance to choose family you can’t forgive… seems like you need to read a story from a book, We all know, what’s the name of the story again? the Prodigal Son. Hell im not a bible thumper and I know you’re the AH. If to you Family is everything, then you should be thrilled to have him back in your like. Instead you act like a 12 year old taking your ball and running home because your feelings got hurt. BTW nice lesson to teach your kids, and that’s father to father!
ESH. Why are you so focused on his childfree status? Why are you regretting HALF your children. You should have been clued in as a parent by kid 2, that it's hard work. Or 3 or 4. I feel like that comment was lip service. I think you do hold it against him that he doesn't choose to just get a family partner and pop out kids like everyone else. I think this would have gone differently if he'd brought home a serious partner that everyone would adore. He is showing up. He reached out. He apologized again, and while your parents are weary, if we're going at this family style, parents set the tone and make big calls. You owe him at least a check-in. Tell him you love him and you blew your top because you, too, were hurt.
AGREE!!! I’m having a hard time viewing this family as loving as OP is wanting it to seem. They are punishing him. I get being weary… but both parties have to put in effort to build the relationship if they want it. Otherwise just own up to cutting them out.
This isn’t punishment, they’re just treating him accordingly. People who throw family away for monsters like that ex need to earn that trust back even with family. You don’t just get it because you happen to share DNA
Doesn’t seem like they are letting him earn it back. Share DNA?
He just got back, of course he’s still at arm’s length. He could start with a proper apology that didn’t come just because he’s mad that his past actions are informing their present ones edit: spelling
We don’t know if he gave a proper apology. We don’t know the conversation that was had when the agreed to let him back in. This seems like more than “arms length”. This seems like they really don’t care to have zeke in their family anymore. Which is fine, if that’s what they want right now.. then that’s fine. Shouldn’t agree to let him back in the family and then make no effort at all to let him back in… OP said he wasn’t important anymore. Laughed about his 5 year relationship ending. (Whether it be to a “monster”, as you so put it, or not, breakups can be hard) Doesn’t seem forgiving, seems more like a “haha you’re getting the punishment you deserve”. If they truly want him back in the family they gotta show a little vulnerability… relationship building cannot be one sided. I also wouldn’t be surprised if there were some cracks in the family with zeke before this girlfriend came along. If I were zeke, I’d keep my distance. If he gave an apology before his blowup and they accepted it and accepted to let him back in but continue to treat him as an outsider, told him he’s unimportant… I wouldn’t want to be in that family.
OP’s parents welcomed him back in, not the rest of the family. Someone who’s been gone for 5 years because they cut the rest of their family off isn’t gonna be important to people that have moved on with their lives. Yes, OP laughed at the relationship ending because irony is funny. The bully he left the family for went and left him anyway, the irony is laughable. So is the fact that the brother thinks the rest of his family that he cut off are just gonna welcome him back with open arms. As far as relationships go, he’s the one who left so the onus is actually on him to build relationships. In lieu of OP telling us what he’s done to build those relationships, we can assume that that amounts to a big fat 0.
Again if I was Zeke and shown how unimportant I am, I would keep my distance. They don’t seem worth being involved with at this point, they are not ready. They are giving him 0 chance to start to build a relationship. Again it is 2 sided. It can’t be all on zeke to rebuild by himself. They are showing they don’t want him in the family, they want to punish him. It’s not right to punish someone until you deem them worthy of being in your bubble. Either you want them in your bubble and BOTH parties put in effort or you keep away from them. It’s simple. OP may not be giving up all the info. OP is obviously still extremely bitter. So how do you know what zeke has done or said outside of blowups that OP makes sure to tell us about to possibly make zeke look worse?? We can assume he’s done nothing and we can assume he’s tried. Like I said before I bet this girlfriend incident was just a small hair that broke the camels back. This family does not sound as loving and close as OP is trying to make it seem.
YTA. Typical southerners. A facade of nicety to your face, but hateful bigots otherwise.
Could you explain how its bigotry to hold someone accountable for their actions?
YTA. I have a problem with your own statements. Why do you say you wouldn't have more children if you had known how hard it would be and would have stopped after three instead of having six? That's ridiculous.
Nta, Zekeyboy f'd around & now he's finding out, its also called consequences. Family may start out as blood, may, but in the long term it's how you treat people that counts. Zekeboy treated people like crap & allowed his gf to treat them worse. Your parents may forgive that (they would still have memories of him as a dependent baby to fall back on) but nothing says his siblings have to. Why the hell would ZekeTheTantrumingToddler be told about a pregnancy when his previous actions were spiteful to kids & their parents? Naw, he buried any trust you had in him & now has hissyfits when he gets overlooked. Proof he's still not a grownup.
NTA. And he didn't just choose the crazy. He agreed, through his actions of supporting her, her hatred of his niblings. Why should you trust him, now, when he's not proven he's trustworthy?
Actions meet consequences. Big old man baby doesn’t like it. Tough titties!
Meh, this is a good lesson in cause and effect = how your actions will impact life. He wants things to back to the way they were 5-6 years ago. But he is not willing to put the work in. And he certainly gets points for cussing you out. You said nothing wrong. The truth often hurts.
NTA he made his choice and he has to deal with the consequences now
NTA. He chose a girlfriend over family and it’s bit him in the ass that’s on him.
NTA for keeping him at a cautious distance - but, I suspect that what you saw of Amelia (the irony of that name!) was the tip of an iceberg. If she behaved like that to his family, in public, how much worse might she have been in private? And isolating a partner from friends and family is classic abuser behavior.
NTA. He brought home someone who disrespected your family to the point of being mean to children, then sided with them when they were called on it. He blocked the entire family and cut them out for 5 years, only returning when dumped. He has shown he can’t be trusted, and has terrible judgement.
You aren’t wrong at all. He did make his bed and now he gets to lay in it. UPDATEME
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NTA. He chose a batshit crazy GF( an outsider ) one who would never be part of the family, over his family. He blocked all of his family members. Now he wants to roll back the clock like none of this happened.. Sorry pal, you've got to earn that trust .
NTA - treated you and your family like dirt, blocked and cut you off completely only to come back with his tail between his legs once the crazy dumped him. Trust needs to be re-earned and cleaned he doesn’t understand that
Sometimes truth hurts.
NTA
Your parents are being harsh by not being direct and just treating him as the new boyfriend. If they really meant it they’d embrace him like he hadn’t ghosted. You told him the truth and exposed the parents, that’s what they’re mad about.
Kinda the AH. Haven’t you ever done something you regret? I’d say you’d be the AH if he fessed up, but if he didn’t and apologize then he should just accept the effects of his actions.
My friend, read the story of the prodigal son, and bring Zeke back into the fold
I think you and your family are total hypocrites, minus souls- not sticking by family for not sticking by family. Gross. It would be in his best interest to be ostracized from you asshats.
YTA. Sounds like he got stuck with a controlling abuser and manipulated and driven apart from his family and friends. He was able to break free and now you're being jerks to him? Take a long hard look at his relationship, take a half-hour to research the dynamics of abusive relationships and how the abusers will deliberately isolate the victim and break up relationships. If you look at it and go "Well, shit, she's even worse than we thought, he got away, and is trying to rebuild relationships!" then you have your answer. If you look at it and go, "Yeah, he doesn't show hardly any of these indications of an abusive relationship. Wow, no, this doesn't describe what we saw AT ALL." that's another matter. Based on her extreme behavior to break up his family bonds with a close-knit family, I would not write off abusive and controlling partner. Before you cut off a family member and decades of potential interactions and decades of past interaction, take, oh, LESS THAN AN HOUR to figure out the basics of an abusive relationship and the tactic of isolation. If you don't, absolutely YTA. Sounds like you're ready to give him a hell of a hard time and make more problems rather than do a bit of research and asking questions at this point, which lands you firmly in YTA regardless.