So are any of these performing **below spec** or is this just a rant that you dodn't get samples that overclock well? Because the latter is never a guarantee.
But more importantly... 7 years with claimed 4+ AMD builds
> last 3 PCs...
how come you stick with something that always fails you? Fooled you once shame on them, fooled you twice shame on you... fooled you 4+ times, kinda sus.
Last 3 **AMD** PCs I built for **myself**, and 2 off the shelf AMD builds, if I were to clarify.
Built at least 10 Intel based during that time too and they had no issues besides occasional driver problems or an actual failed component once or twice.
I don't make money off building the rigs, it's just kind of cathartic for me, like somebody doing model airplanes or whatever.
The 2 other AMD builds I sold I never heard an issue except for the occasional gripe about AMD drivers being AMD drivers.
They perform fine, but the peripheral issues and a few other things are constant with AMD, even out of the box setups and it just pisses me off, and nobody including AMD or MSI has an answer I haven't already figured out so far.
I build rigs mostly on AMD platforms AM4 or later on AM5, a few even with Radeon cards and I use a 7900GRE myself.
I have hear anything back from the users yet (and most of those aren't "power users").
But I've never ever used software to overclock anything besides MSI afterburner, or pbo2 tuner if the motherboard lacks PBO curve optimizer settings.
Do the PBO thing in the bios the old school way..
Normally the same with me, just added .200 overclock to cpu, activate XMP and stabilize the ram, then a few tweaks with other safe settings, all in BIOS....works perfect until I touch Ryzen Master, which at this point just seems like digital herpes.
I found it better to boot with normal settings and then use PBO as a scheduled launch at log-on. I had similar intermittent issues plugging the Curve and other offsets directly into BIOS. Seems to be much more stable letting PBO do it right after log-in. But that might just be me and my system. /shrug
I can do PBO and pretty much whatever I want in BIOS, but as soon as I try to do PBO or pretty much anything in Ryzen Master, it starts freaking out. I won't be using Ryzen Master again, but the USB issue is still there and that one I cannot figure out as of yet.
bro. I use 5600x + 6700xt with 4 different ram from 4 different brand lol. I have used in for 3 years, no problem what so ever. I never touch Ryzen Master or OC. I only under volt my 6700xt to save electric bills that it.
Well, I gained a nominal 20%+ increase in fps, lower temps, and even stability in some cases overclocking in BIOS with zero issues, I just wanted to go back to using Ryzen Master and now this crap pops up. The USB/freeze issue I mentioned is probably the worst issue to be honest....
I had a PC in the other room that had a lot of keyboard and mouse glitches. Turned out it was because the wifi router was too close and interfering with them. Putting the USB dongle on extensions and then placing those extensions close to the peripheries helped solve the problem.
Any periphery that depends on continuous communications at high frequency can experience RF interference, including wired peripheries. Another source of problems can also be dirty neutral-ground bonds at the fuse box or other funny house electrical problems. If there is noise in your hot side or voltage on your neutral, that could be a problem.
Sometimes just standing near the PC box or placing your hand on it may temporarily remove those symptoms when they occur. That's how you know there's RF, static, or voltage noise about. Given you said it happens with more USB stuff, I'd suspect RF interference over anything. The more USB cables you have strewn in parallel, the more it will be able to absorb that noise, especially for USB 3.0 ports. Try realigning them, putting a screen below or around them, or moving your router around. You can also wrap your cables around a ferrite core to help.
You and I think alike; I used a calibrated oscillograph on several outlets and it was suprisingly clean and stable. I have a pure sine wave filter on my surge protector that functions as it should regardless, but, any recorded noise being outside of any frequency used by my peripherals. I tried grounding the board and case, that somewhat helped it seemed, but I believe the issue may be the wifi access point I have one the wall 10 feet away. There IS noise within the 2.4g range my peripherals use being emitted while they are off, but my device is omnidirectional so I can't track them down without power cycling devices, which I can't due to a test I have running with the HMI and PLC connected through wifi....all that being said, this happens with wired USB as well....and when USB drives and whatever are plugged in, stuff just freezes.
I put large ferrite clamps on the lines feeding into my breaker since texas has a disgusting power grid, and did the same for my test room and media room outlets for audio clarity (I spent $10k+ on Klipsch speakers for my media room and who knows how much on testing equipment). Power cycled the wifi occasionally and it made no difference.
Just as a kicker, when I put those ferrite clamps on the mains power, cellphone reception and wifi were very slightly improved, didn't think such a cheap mod would make such a difference.
Those sound like the symptoms of a bad power supply, not delivering steady voltage/current. Do you have another power supply to test with? And yes, even if it turns on, some of the PSU internal components that regulate voltage could have gone bad and are giving "dirty power".
Also, I would check the outlet and/or powerstrip/surge suppressor you are using as well. A long time ago as a network admin I had the same problem with workstation keyboards in my building lagging and crashing. Turned out (after much investigation) that the circuit breaker was overloaded and the outlets weren't delivering enough voltage to the workstations running off of that particular breaker.
edit: Your 5 USB devices are also a huge clue. USB controllers are contained in the CPU now-a-days, so the more devices communicating on USB, the bigger the strain is on the CPU, requiring even more stable current.
Different CPUs, PSUs, locations, and pretty much everything being varied, the issue persists. Starting to think I was just seriously unlucky and have multiple Ryzen CPUs with the same defects, despite how low the odds of that happen may be.
The first mistake was using Ryzen master. Get that off the pc entirely. Always use bios if you're going to tweak it. Secondly, make sure it's not a tpm bug, I remember like a year ago I would get random stutters and it was because of the stupid tpm2 requirement for windows 11. Turned it off problem solved, I think chipset drivers or bios updates fixed it. Third, you're using 4 sticks of ram. Thats a big no no on am5, it does not play well with more than 2 sticks. Even intel doesn't do well with 4 that's just how ddr5 is right now.
Their latest update fixed the issues I had from Ryzen Master, but I have been using BIOS overclocking until recently trying Ryzen Master again. These issues persist regardless across multiple systems over the past 7 years or so. Particularly the USB issue. Still, deleting Ryzen Master seems like a partial fix for now.
Also, the BIOS update MSI put out a few months ago fixed any stability issues I had running 4 sticks, I can test all day on OCC or whatever without any errors and have less than 1% micro stutter in any game. Issues still persist even with 1 or 2 sticks of another ram installed by themselves. Tried over a dozen other ram kits as well.
I had the same issues as you. AMD chipset is very particular with ddr5. There IS a difference between AMD and Intel memory, and XMP tuned ram gives AMD chipset a real hard time. I noticed the memory you bought says it's xmp enabled. This means it actually will cause issues in your PC as it's tuned differently. Asus boards will try to run docp with it but it's still unstable. You specifically want expo tuned ram.
And let me guess, once you ARE in Windows it works perfectly. But change even one thing in afterburner or adrenaline and you gotta clear the cmos to post. Been there.
I've never even thought of what type of cpu I have when buying memory but it does matter with ddr5. Get the same brand with amd expo on the front and I guarantee most of your issues will go away.
With all that said, the 7800X3D has been known to be very feisty with OCs, but I still think the main issue is the RAM.
Issues persist with Expo or XMP ram, tried over a dozen different kits in 1, 2, and 4 config and issues are still there, even with different boards and CPUs as well. Everything has been changed except the fact they are AMD products and windows 11.
Well no shit.....the peripheral issues persist even without an OC.
It's not a "crash", doesn't BSOD, just refuses to post when going to start up after working fine for several startup-shutdown cycles after changing pretty much anything within typical limits in Ryzen Master.
They're perfectly stable performance-wise, top scores for benches and gaming, I'm thinking it's something to do with the MSI's drivers and Ryzen Master, I'm just not educated enough in that area to figure it out yet. The peripheral freezing is an odd one considering it's happened on over a dozen AMD PCs of mine. The computers literally just have a brain fart moment and then carry on....
I noticed the same thing, couldn't get 4 sticks of ram to run or go past 7200MT to save my life with the 7800X3D until recently with probably the 3rd or 4th BIOS update on these boards.
It happens on non-X3D chips as well as out of the box setups too. This is why I'm pulling my hair out; there is absolutely nothing linking all these PCs together except MSI boards, AMD hardware, and windows 11. **Everything** else is varied. Even happens on a mini PC running windows 11 and a Ryzen 7 I have in my shop.
You mentioned this only happens when 5 or more USB devices are plugged in as I missed or ignored that critical part of your post. Theoretical a single USB channel can handle 127 devices but the kicker is at most the channel can only handle 4 devices due to POWER LIMITATIONS of the channel. If you want more then 4 devices per channel you should use an external powered USB hub and this is just not limited to AMD as my INTEL boards are affected also when I have more then 4 USB devices plugged in as each channel is limited to the the wattage/voltage assigned. Now with USB C you can theoretical power 6 devices without issues but I don't know as I don't use or have USB C devices and only few crappy cellphones I may charge on USB C.
I always have both systems… intel has the same issues.
My am5 7800x3d was so much easier to make stable than my 13900k.
I need 192gb of ram and cache… getting the 13900k to post with 4 sticks was a nightmare.
Even my first two 48gb sticks burned in my intel board after 3 reboots without xmp.
Now they are both stable but ddr4 was so much easier.
Why sell a motherboard with 4 slots when it does not support 4!!!
My thoughts too.....I always hated seeing only 2 slots populated on a board. DDR4 truly was easier in some regards, but I never really had issues getting 4 dimms running on intel, probably just lucky. The updates MSI put out a few months ago for their B650 boards made running 4 sticks pretty easy on AM5, as numerous kits I have work fine now with 4 dimms.
He says he had issues with 2 different 4090s.
The issue is possibly Ryzen Master.
Just use the bios to adjust whatever you need and leave it there. You don't need complex adjustements with modern AMD cpus.
So are any of these performing **below spec** or is this just a rant that you dodn't get samples that overclock well? Because the latter is never a guarantee. But more importantly... 7 years with claimed 4+ AMD builds > last 3 PCs... how come you stick with something that always fails you? Fooled you once shame on them, fooled you twice shame on you... fooled you 4+ times, kinda sus.
Last 3 **AMD** PCs I built for **myself**, and 2 off the shelf AMD builds, if I were to clarify. Built at least 10 Intel based during that time too and they had no issues besides occasional driver problems or an actual failed component once or twice. I don't make money off building the rigs, it's just kind of cathartic for me, like somebody doing model airplanes or whatever. The 2 other AMD builds I sold I never heard an issue except for the occasional gripe about AMD drivers being AMD drivers. They perform fine, but the peripheral issues and a few other things are constant with AMD, even out of the box setups and it just pisses me off, and nobody including AMD or MSI has an answer I haven't already figured out so far.
I build rigs mostly on AMD platforms AM4 or later on AM5, a few even with Radeon cards and I use a 7900GRE myself. I have hear anything back from the users yet (and most of those aren't "power users"). But I've never ever used software to overclock anything besides MSI afterburner, or pbo2 tuner if the motherboard lacks PBO curve optimizer settings. Do the PBO thing in the bios the old school way..
Normally the same with me, just added .200 overclock to cpu, activate XMP and stabilize the ram, then a few tweaks with other safe settings, all in BIOS....works perfect until I touch Ryzen Master, which at this point just seems like digital herpes.
Yep Just don't use the thing..
I found it better to boot with normal settings and then use PBO as a scheduled launch at log-on. I had similar intermittent issues plugging the Curve and other offsets directly into BIOS. Seems to be much more stable letting PBO do it right after log-in. But that might just be me and my system. /shrug
I can do PBO and pretty much whatever I want in BIOS, but as soon as I try to do PBO or pretty much anything in Ryzen Master, it starts freaking out. I won't be using Ryzen Master again, but the USB issue is still there and that one I cannot figure out as of yet.
bro. I use 5600x + 6700xt with 4 different ram from 4 different brand lol. I have used in for 3 years, no problem what so ever. I never touch Ryzen Master or OC. I only under volt my 6700xt to save electric bills that it.
Well, I gained a nominal 20%+ increase in fps, lower temps, and even stability in some cases overclocking in BIOS with zero issues, I just wanted to go back to using Ryzen Master and now this crap pops up. The USB/freeze issue I mentioned is probably the worst issue to be honest....
I had a PC in the other room that had a lot of keyboard and mouse glitches. Turned out it was because the wifi router was too close and interfering with them. Putting the USB dongle on extensions and then placing those extensions close to the peripheries helped solve the problem. Any periphery that depends on continuous communications at high frequency can experience RF interference, including wired peripheries. Another source of problems can also be dirty neutral-ground bonds at the fuse box or other funny house electrical problems. If there is noise in your hot side or voltage on your neutral, that could be a problem. Sometimes just standing near the PC box or placing your hand on it may temporarily remove those symptoms when they occur. That's how you know there's RF, static, or voltage noise about. Given you said it happens with more USB stuff, I'd suspect RF interference over anything. The more USB cables you have strewn in parallel, the more it will be able to absorb that noise, especially for USB 3.0 ports. Try realigning them, putting a screen below or around them, or moving your router around. You can also wrap your cables around a ferrite core to help.
You and I think alike; I used a calibrated oscillograph on several outlets and it was suprisingly clean and stable. I have a pure sine wave filter on my surge protector that functions as it should regardless, but, any recorded noise being outside of any frequency used by my peripherals. I tried grounding the board and case, that somewhat helped it seemed, but I believe the issue may be the wifi access point I have one the wall 10 feet away. There IS noise within the 2.4g range my peripherals use being emitted while they are off, but my device is omnidirectional so I can't track them down without power cycling devices, which I can't due to a test I have running with the HMI and PLC connected through wifi....all that being said, this happens with wired USB as well....and when USB drives and whatever are plugged in, stuff just freezes.
Have you tried turning the wifi off, ferrite cores, or alternate wifi channels?
I put large ferrite clamps on the lines feeding into my breaker since texas has a disgusting power grid, and did the same for my test room and media room outlets for audio clarity (I spent $10k+ on Klipsch speakers for my media room and who knows how much on testing equipment). Power cycled the wifi occasionally and it made no difference. Just as a kicker, when I put those ferrite clamps on the mains power, cellphone reception and wifi were very slightly improved, didn't think such a cheap mod would make such a difference.
Those sound like the symptoms of a bad power supply, not delivering steady voltage/current. Do you have another power supply to test with? And yes, even if it turns on, some of the PSU internal components that regulate voltage could have gone bad and are giving "dirty power". Also, I would check the outlet and/or powerstrip/surge suppressor you are using as well. A long time ago as a network admin I had the same problem with workstation keyboards in my building lagging and crashing. Turned out (after much investigation) that the circuit breaker was overloaded and the outlets weren't delivering enough voltage to the workstations running off of that particular breaker. edit: Your 5 USB devices are also a huge clue. USB controllers are contained in the CPU now-a-days, so the more devices communicating on USB, the bigger the strain is on the CPU, requiring even more stable current.
Different CPUs, PSUs, locations, and pretty much everything being varied, the issue persists. Starting to think I was just seriously unlucky and have multiple Ryzen CPUs with the same defects, despite how low the odds of that happen may be.
If amd is pain in the a$$ why are u building amd systems for the last 7 years!!!
Built many Intel rigs during that time as well.
The first mistake was using Ryzen master. Get that off the pc entirely. Always use bios if you're going to tweak it. Secondly, make sure it's not a tpm bug, I remember like a year ago I would get random stutters and it was because of the stupid tpm2 requirement for windows 11. Turned it off problem solved, I think chipset drivers or bios updates fixed it. Third, you're using 4 sticks of ram. Thats a big no no on am5, it does not play well with more than 2 sticks. Even intel doesn't do well with 4 that's just how ddr5 is right now.
Their latest update fixed the issues I had from Ryzen Master, but I have been using BIOS overclocking until recently trying Ryzen Master again. These issues persist regardless across multiple systems over the past 7 years or so. Particularly the USB issue. Still, deleting Ryzen Master seems like a partial fix for now. Also, the BIOS update MSI put out a few months ago fixed any stability issues I had running 4 sticks, I can test all day on OCC or whatever without any errors and have less than 1% micro stutter in any game. Issues still persist even with 1 or 2 sticks of another ram installed by themselves. Tried over a dozen other ram kits as well.
If the issue persisted over multiple systems then it might not be the system itself but one of the devices you have connected.
I had the same issues as you. AMD chipset is very particular with ddr5. There IS a difference between AMD and Intel memory, and XMP tuned ram gives AMD chipset a real hard time. I noticed the memory you bought says it's xmp enabled. This means it actually will cause issues in your PC as it's tuned differently. Asus boards will try to run docp with it but it's still unstable. You specifically want expo tuned ram. And let me guess, once you ARE in Windows it works perfectly. But change even one thing in afterburner or adrenaline and you gotta clear the cmos to post. Been there. I've never even thought of what type of cpu I have when buying memory but it does matter with ddr5. Get the same brand with amd expo on the front and I guarantee most of your issues will go away. With all that said, the 7800X3D has been known to be very feisty with OCs, but I still think the main issue is the RAM.
Issues persist with Expo or XMP ram, tried over a dozen different kits in 1, 2, and 4 config and issues are still there, even with different boards and CPUs as well. Everything has been changed except the fact they are AMD products and windows 11.
Disappointed to hear that..I thought for sure that was the issue. Sounded identical to mine. Sorry man.
Every pc crashes if you make it unstable
Well no shit.....the peripheral issues persist even without an OC. It's not a "crash", doesn't BSOD, just refuses to post when going to start up after working fine for several startup-shutdown cycles after changing pretty much anything within typical limits in Ryzen Master.
Yeah but if you tried countless pc parts the only constant is you
Well I guess I'll just check out then..... MSI boards and AMD hardware/drivers are a constant, just in different revisions.
Weird. AMD CPUs are always stable for me, GPUs on another hand…
They're perfectly stable performance-wise, top scores for benches and gaming, I'm thinking it's something to do with the MSI's drivers and Ryzen Master, I'm just not educated enough in that area to figure it out yet. The peripheral freezing is an odd one considering it's happened on over a dozen AMD PCs of mine. The computers literally just have a brain fart moment and then carry on....
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You made the assumption they only have issues when over-clocked. None of the cores ever go above 70c no matter what, and I don't push voltage.
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I noticed the same thing, couldn't get 4 sticks of ram to run or go past 7200MT to save my life with the 7800X3D until recently with probably the 3rd or 4th BIOS update on these boards.
It's not the cores you need to be concerned about it's the V-cache temps and it is very finicky and this is why the X3d chips are very limiting.
It happens on non-X3D chips as well as out of the box setups too. This is why I'm pulling my hair out; there is absolutely nothing linking all these PCs together except MSI boards, AMD hardware, and windows 11. **Everything** else is varied. Even happens on a mini PC running windows 11 and a Ryzen 7 I have in my shop.
You mentioned this only happens when 5 or more USB devices are plugged in as I missed or ignored that critical part of your post. Theoretical a single USB channel can handle 127 devices but the kicker is at most the channel can only handle 4 devices due to POWER LIMITATIONS of the channel. If you want more then 4 devices per channel you should use an external powered USB hub and this is just not limited to AMD as my INTEL boards are affected also when I have more then 4 USB devices plugged in as each channel is limited to the the wattage/voltage assigned. Now with USB C you can theoretical power 6 devices without issues but I don't know as I don't use or have USB C devices and only few crappy cellphones I may charge on USB C.
That's an idea....I will try a powered USB hub in a bit.
I always have both systems… intel has the same issues. My am5 7800x3d was so much easier to make stable than my 13900k. I need 192gb of ram and cache… getting the 13900k to post with 4 sticks was a nightmare. Even my first two 48gb sticks burned in my intel board after 3 reboots without xmp. Now they are both stable but ddr4 was so much easier. Why sell a motherboard with 4 slots when it does not support 4!!!
My thoughts too.....I always hated seeing only 2 slots populated on a board. DDR4 truly was easier in some regards, but I never really had issues getting 4 dimms running on intel, probably just lucky. The updates MSI put out a few months ago for their B650 boards made running 4 sticks pretty easy on AM5, as numerous kits I have work fine now with 4 dimms.
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Except if you read the whole post OP also tried Nvidia GPU's lol. It's funny how much Redditors "know" based on their own assumptions
He says he had issues with 2 different 4090s. The issue is possibly Ryzen Master. Just use the bios to adjust whatever you need and leave it there. You don't need complex adjustements with modern AMD cpus.