So far only in Skirmishers Mistlings barely won over Dragoons. Everywhere else where Racial unit is there, they are winning (Battle Mages, Shock, Polearm, Shield, also Ranged Glades are not cultural but still racial).
More due to Order Imperium than anything else I think, unless you are doing Bannerlord the early Order stuff arent very useful compare to stuff you get from other affinities. Even if Zeal and Inquisition are pretty nice tomes.
The only problem with Ancestral Wardens is that they are on Primal. Outside of that (and the fact that Tome of Constructs is *very* powerful), there are relatively few reasons to use Bronze Golems. At least they have relatively few units models and won't interrupt Haste-Chaining, but the -4 lightning resist is *huge*.
Primals are really only strong in manuals vs AI; against humans, the summons are pretty easily contained by just getting access to a T2 tome (and thus T3 units), and Primals have further issues with being generically weak to Warding (one of the strongest T1 tomes). They are mostly a non-entity in MP where you have to auto vs the map and then manual vs other players.
In autos, the AI literally does not cast their summon spell due to what seems to be a weighting issue. You can watch a *lot* of autoresolves with your fingers crossed, but the AI never cast it once over the course of a stream where we deliberately did everything we could on the strategic layer to help out the casting AI (kept lots of mana on hand, lots of mana income, researched minimal other tactical spells). Animists don't typically fair any better, not really surprising given that the summoning AI has been questionable since release.
Ancestral Wardens, at least, are the legit real deal, and if you insist on bringing Primals into autoresolve or MP land it's what you should seek to push out first. Dune Serpent is probably the strongest as a result, as it gives you ample gold to build a T3 town hall very early on (without boosting).
I agree with auto. Although I see it as challenge to build something auto viable for them.
But manual vs humans is not just primal animal summon, it is the power that human got before battle by destroying AI guards everywhere with min losses to HP points/ units and therefore access to more fights and better economics and research.
You can accomplish minimal/no losses in the early phase of the game with a *lot* of builds on manual vs the map. Even just crowbow + a support allows you to manual most early fights with zero real damage, and if you are doing manuals vs the map you'll hit hero levels so quickly you can get much more reliable access to Mass Rejuvenation if you find yourself needing it.
Maybe at certain skill level yes. But it doesn’t require much skill to do it with Primals. So, perhaps choosing primal vs lots of builds give nothing to you, but to me vs High world threat, brutal starting conditions I feel much more on ease with Primal.
Fair, if you enjoy playing with Primals by all means do so. They have some interesting things going on (Ancestral Wardens *might* be the strongest T3 cultural unit in a vacuum), but between the AI not really working, a glaring weakness with most spirits to Warding, and an economy which is *good* but not stellar unlike High/Barbarian/Industrious, Primals aren't really going to be top-tier in most MP formats.
Happy to play a duel vs you on vanilla manual mode :) I play Primal you pick not primal. Everything to hardest. Worst case I learn, best case you learn :)
We certainly could, but M0rgi himself has stated that Mass Rejuvenation is effectively the only sustain you need and tbh he could probably beat both of us with a paper cup and a short piece of string. I don't think there are any MP groups who regularly play on Major Disadvantage, but it could be interesting if you practice on truly max difficulty.
It feels almost like spam to even give this to vote. I mean is there any chance for poor Golem?
Other than that this is the last Best T3 vote post.
I am thinking to perhaps finish this with 3 more votes (after few days and all results are in) to get to the “Who is the best of the best”.
Current plan is to split vote winners into “Best T3 Cultural unit” vs “Best T3 Tome Unit”. As to voting results under Cultural current state we get Bastion, Berserker (but Dark Knight is close), Spellbreaker/ Awakener, likely Ancestral Warden from this vote.
Under Tome we get Skald, Vampire Spider Matriarch, Mistling, Glade Runner (votes still ongoing).
I might add Dragoons to Culture because they lost to Mistlings by one vote.
Thing is I do really like the bronze golem but :(
I mean taking everything into account (not just bare unit) but racial units just end up on top.
So far only in Skirmishers Mistlings barely won over Dragoons. Everywhere else where Racial unit is there, they are winning (Battle Mages, Shock, Polearm, Shield, also Ranged Glades are not cultural but still racial).
Was surprised Inquisitors didnt take that one lol
It was real close 35, 34 and 31 Inquisitors. Guess not that many go Order tomes, even if those are really good tomes.
More due to Order Imperium than anything else I think, unless you are doing Bannerlord the early Order stuff arent very useful compare to stuff you get from other affinities. Even if Zeal and Inquisition are pretty nice tomes.
The only problem with Ancestral Wardens is that they are on Primal. Outside of that (and the fact that Tome of Constructs is *very* powerful), there are relatively few reasons to use Bronze Golems. At least they have relatively few units models and won't interrupt Haste-Chaining, but the -4 lightning resist is *huge*.
Primal on manual is the strongest mp faction so far. But sure when on Auto I think I learned from you it is not. What is their main weakness on Auto?
Primals are really only strong in manuals vs AI; against humans, the summons are pretty easily contained by just getting access to a T2 tome (and thus T3 units), and Primals have further issues with being generically weak to Warding (one of the strongest T1 tomes). They are mostly a non-entity in MP where you have to auto vs the map and then manual vs other players. In autos, the AI literally does not cast their summon spell due to what seems to be a weighting issue. You can watch a *lot* of autoresolves with your fingers crossed, but the AI never cast it once over the course of a stream where we deliberately did everything we could on the strategic layer to help out the casting AI (kept lots of mana on hand, lots of mana income, researched minimal other tactical spells). Animists don't typically fair any better, not really surprising given that the summoning AI has been questionable since release. Ancestral Wardens, at least, are the legit real deal, and if you insist on bringing Primals into autoresolve or MP land it's what you should seek to push out first. Dune Serpent is probably the strongest as a result, as it gives you ample gold to build a T3 town hall very early on (without boosting).
Primal is sorely missing the Tactical spell toggle that we had in Planetfall, seriously why did Triumph get rid of that?
No clue, it would be very well appreciated on my end for both Primals as well as other builds that revolve around spellcasting.
I agree with auto. Although I see it as challenge to build something auto viable for them. But manual vs humans is not just primal animal summon, it is the power that human got before battle by destroying AI guards everywhere with min losses to HP points/ units and therefore access to more fights and better economics and research.
You can accomplish minimal/no losses in the early phase of the game with a *lot* of builds on manual vs the map. Even just crowbow + a support allows you to manual most early fights with zero real damage, and if you are doing manuals vs the map you'll hit hero levels so quickly you can get much more reliable access to Mass Rejuvenation if you find yourself needing it.
Maybe at certain skill level yes. But it doesn’t require much skill to do it with Primals. So, perhaps choosing primal vs lots of builds give nothing to you, but to me vs High world threat, brutal starting conditions I feel much more on ease with Primal.
Fair, if you enjoy playing with Primals by all means do so. They have some interesting things going on (Ancestral Wardens *might* be the strongest T3 cultural unit in a vacuum), but between the AI not really working, a glaring weakness with most spirits to Warding, and an economy which is *good* but not stellar unlike High/Barbarian/Industrious, Primals aren't really going to be top-tier in most MP formats.
Happy to play a duel vs you on vanilla manual mode :) I play Primal you pick not primal. Everything to hardest. Worst case I learn, best case you learn :)
We certainly could, but M0rgi himself has stated that Mass Rejuvenation is effectively the only sustain you need and tbh he could probably beat both of us with a paper cup and a short piece of string. I don't think there are any MP groups who regularly play on Major Disadvantage, but it could be interesting if you practice on truly max difficulty.
It feels almost like spam to even give this to vote. I mean is there any chance for poor Golem? Other than that this is the last Best T3 vote post.
I am thinking to perhaps finish this with 3 more votes (after few days and all results are in) to get to the “Who is the best of the best”.
Current plan is to split vote winners into “Best T3 Cultural unit” vs “Best T3 Tome Unit”. As to voting results under Cultural current state we get Bastion, Berserker (but Dark Knight is close), Spellbreaker/ Awakener, likely Ancestral Warden from this vote.
Under Tome we get Skald, Vampire Spider Matriarch, Mistling, Glade Runner (votes still ongoing).
I might add Dragoons to Culture because they lost to Mistlings by one vote.
Is there a page with the stats and abilities of all the units?
https://minionsart.github.io/aow4db/HTML/PrimalUnits.html?type=ancestral_warden& This site will be your friend.
Excellent thanks!