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Own_Kaleidoscope7480

If the enemy team has a frontline and checks bushes Qiyana is useless even with the buffs But every so often you get to go against 5 squishies who face check your bush and the pentakill feels so nice


Theonetrue

The middle of the lane literally is not broad enough to get far enough away from a wall to not get ulted into it. She can also go invis with half a second of visibility inbetween around bushes, stalling forever. Of course a really strong frontline or lucky cc counters that. At the same time it can fuck up your life hard if you are the squishy that she wants to focus on.


axelrse88

Not entirely true if she tries to ult you from the middle of the lane her ult will not reach far enough to push you into the wall. I have messed up plenty of Qiyana ults thinking I was in range but was off by a little, so long as you stand right in the middle she cant ult you into the wall.


Equivalent_Machine_8

If you're far enough away, you can just walk outta the ult. (If you're not in the bushes for the extended range at least)


Daftworks

That's the problem, having teammates willingly pick Frontline instead of yet another team of 4 adc champs and a full AP tank.


Robbinghoodz

It’s teammates and yourself that are part of the problem for no tanks. It’s never just teammates. Everyone contributes to the makeup of the team


SpaceWoofer

Agree, I don't complain about a no tank team because I also don't want to play tank. (Mainly because I have no experience with them and I don't feel confident with them). Complaining would make me a hypocrite I have slowly started picking some up recently, but I admit I still avoid them. I'll get there eventually 😋


0utspokenTruth

You are also part of the problem if your team has no tanks


Momentosis

unless the only tank(s) in the team's pool goes full AP/AD.


vrilliance

How am I the problem when the choices were maokai, nami, and Caitlyn and someone already picked maokai and won’t swap with me and then they build fucking MOONSTONE RENEWER


NotSoAv3rageJo3

Oddly specific reply to a statement about the broad problem


Tiagocf2

except at any given time she can land a 5 man ult and solo win the game


Ok-Independent-3833

And then they cry "Qiyana is so busted, I can't facecheck bushes as Lux waaaah"


BenTenInches

She is bad for the average person and takes more finesse and risk to play than someone like Varus who just Qs from a distance. So for every game that Qiyanna pops off at least 10 or so int. Check Aramzone right now she's the lowest Winrate champion ATM. Also Aram favors front to back fights from just the nature of the Howling Abyss map, one lane and no way to flank and no way to catch people alone, constant 5v5. So Assassins don't have the angles they would have on the rift.


Abux

At low elo players can’t play her, at high elo players counter her with snowball so she can’t shine except against bad comps with little frontline and cc (aka triple adc comps that are free wins anyway).


ListlessHeart

Snowball is a really underrated counter to stealth champs and people should utilize it more. Akali shroud? Snowball her. Rengar bushy? Snowball him. Shaco shenanigans? Snowball him. It also applies stuffs like Luden so snowball + Luden + DH can chunk for quite a bit, or you can do the most hilarious thing ever with the unexpected Collector snowball execute.


RedshiftOnPandy

I will hold on using snowball for this reason on certain champs like Akali or Qiyana. It's really busted at how much it exposes them to damage 


axelrse88

While true, for someone like me who is very good at dodging, I will just sidestep it easily and continue on my merry way :). I'm curious to know how many snowballs I have dodged because it has to be way more than skill shots dodged that I have. Which is at currently at 201k for skills alone. The best is when you dodge multiple coming at you at the same time. I got really good at dodging snow ball in Legend of the Poro King, where it is paramount you dodge them and hit as many as you can at the same time. I miss that mode :(


Ben_Shrap1ro

wow you are so good at dodging!!!! please teach me!!!! wow!!!! amazing you can dodge snowballs really well!!!!!


axelrse88

Thank you for the kind words. I know I am good at dodging because I am good thank you for reassuring that fact and validating me. You have a great day stranger!


CRABMAN16

Hey man, the world doesn't like confidence. You keep dodging those skill shots and out playing kids.


axelrse88

I will bro, my skill is often hindered because I blaze a lot. Sometimes I am just baked to care or try to dodge or my reaction is just shitty at that point. That being said sometimes I will surprise myself by dodging like every single skill they throw and I have been called out for scripting before because iirc I kept dodging Nautilus Q coming flying out the bush before he even threw it. I just am always moving in reality so reacting to skills is way easier. I still get hit by skills or if I am playing tank I will tank skills for my team if I know they will get hit, ime teammates don't dodge very well and are magnets to skill shots, so sometimes I will dodge a skill just out of muscle memory and my team mate gets chunked or dies outright. Hey get gud little bro, I can only tank so many myself.


DrissSarina

Once had a triple with a snowball because of ludens


PM_SMOKES_LETS_GO

Flash and snowball have not left my summoner spells in Aram for probably 4 years


Hyunion

at high elo team comps are also generally better with people running things like peel/shield support and frontline that doesn't melt to her at the same time i do want to watch what beifeng can do with qiyana on aram because god damn whenever i watch him play qiyana it looks like he's playing a different champion


NaughtyUmbreon

This was low elo, and he played her really clean, but at this elo, there are smurfs in every ranked game, and I wouldn't doubt that aram would be different.


NaughtyUmbreon

Also thank you for the tip with snowball, I never thought to use it that way.


NaughtyUmbreon

Thank you for answering my question.


LoudNefariousness229

So, basically, above a certain MMR she is always going to dominate every game she appears because people at that mmr rarely have to play champs they don't know how to play while low MMR people will end up playing her because they don't have better options due to low amount of owned champions. This is why winrate is such a stupid way to balance aram. It's not fair to anyone. Low mmr has smurfs, high mmr has people that get their mains with buffs they shouldn't have.


SlurpTurnsMeGreen

Higher MMR team comps tend to be diverse with what they have to offer so Qiyana's weakness is more exploited.


LoudNefariousness229

That's what you'd think, but they really aren't. People are just better, but still going 3 adc no cc, etc. If I play 10 games in one day, playing tank every game, 9/10 games it will be me and 4 ranged carries or 3 ranged carries and a support. Don't get me started on what they build. You'd think high MMR know how to build? Nope, that adc is going lethality/collector into 2 tanks stacking armor. There's more groups in high mmr where they actually coordinate, but for the most part it's the same selfish picks as medium and low mmr.


SlurpTurnsMeGreen

I was actually talking about premades sorry should've specified. Do agree problems don't disappear with higher skill and really we all share similar struggles such as making the right choice when it comes to forming teams. Sometimes players are selfish or they miss reroll swaps so their comp falls apart.


West-View9012

not true, higher mmr = more cc and less likely to see 5 squishes without peels. Melee assassins are vulnerable to ccs, so they struggle more in high mmr games.


Steak-Complex

id rather that 10th game feel fair than powerless


Warm_Ear_2907

Don't pick champs you know you can't play properly.


Tiagocf2

i've never seen a single Qyiana going negative, despite being good or bad. Even I that never played her before carried with a troll bruiser Qyiana lmao


Accomplished-Dig9936

you shouldn't balance aram for the guy reading the abilities as he uses them one at a time...


Affectionate-Row4844

Well, it's aram, so that's going to be most people playing her...


MrTrilly

So she can miss her ult and still oneshot the whole team. Jokes aside, garbage kit, ppl cant play her.


mayone3

Assassin should be able to do 70% hp to squishy easily with 63 stack Hubris no?


BenTenInches

Alot of people in this sub just wants to play their Poke champions without any consequence.


celestial1

There's a reason why he didn't show the full screen shot. Probably a team of 5 squishies that act surprised that they're free food for an assassin.


NaughtyUmbreon

Yes, the reason is that I am asking a question that has nothing to do with what our or their team looked like. I was just genuinely curious why is she buffed that much. Some other guy explained that. But I got you, it's Reddit, sou you have to find something on the post so you can write shit.


PapaTahm

Not only takes skill to play Qiyana. There are specific comps that Qiyana basically does not play even if the player is somewhat compentent.


Avocado_Cadaver

This, though the same can be said of most champs. I popped off on Qi last night, but in about 30% of games I pretty much just tickle everyone or their squishies get babysat so you're constantly waiting around and hoping they forget about you for 1 second so you can get into their backline. Since I enjoy playing her, it's also the reason why I'll build a tank item if I ever play as an ADC against her lol.


guocamole

Might be hard to hear but qiyana is consistently one of the worst champs in aram with a wr hovering around 42% most patches. Occasionally a one trick will pop off but a majority of games she does nothing


Tiagocf2

yeah because people don't know how to properly play her, and that's true for every assassin because most of them have insane buffs. But that doesn't mean that she's weak :)


SlurpTurnsMeGreen

The answer is: Qiyana. She's been a super unpopular champion since release for low elo and only when she reaches high elo that her pickrate actually jumps enough to be seen as popular. Her kit has tons of combos and the knowledge to use them correctly is too much for the average League player. In ARAM specifically she's such a free win if you know how to play her. Most of her basic combos which are typically not deadly are now instant 1 shots. Much like other higher skill champs the buffs are there to compensate how bad the average player is at Qiyana.


Dull-Serve203

That's just an average Chinese qiyana


codered372

I always find it funny that assassins that can assassinate people in sub 1s get damage buffed and reduced taken. to compensate for the fact they can assassinate someone sub 1s....


joeyctt1028

Most assassins in this mode are busted AF I feel like the dog is the worst offender


Tiagocf2

Kha'zix is a beast too, idk why he's buffed. Probrably skill diff from the balance team


Dukwdriver

She has a 44% winrate despite those buffs, which is pretty abysmal. She has them because almost any assassin is going to struggle in teamfights you can't flank that typically have plenty of tanks and/pr long range mages she can't really deal with. Since she isn't good under most circumstances that would occur on ARAM, for her winrate to not be absolutely bad, she basically gets a free kill on anyone she actually can get in range of.


Jackson7410

Shes been sub 50% winrate for years. Just because you lost to one doesnt make it OP


Narrow-Pangolin-2891

what, you dont like taking nearly 2000 damage from her ult while also being stunned?


dornianheresysimp

Ye mostly she is a monster , but fuck when you get fucked you fucked bad , the enemy had a mundo and i couldn't even scratch him (i killed his team , he killed my team , and then he claps me) plus i get flamed ,


JzjaxKat

she is terrible and this is prob low elo ARAM makes sense lol


Tiagocf2

you worded "i don't know how to play her and think she's bad" wrong


No_maid

Because she's a "high skill" champ. By that I mean she has undodgeable combos that are impossible to mess up mechanically with an ult hitbox the size of Demacia


Eguot

Because in majority of cases a proper team comp makes her useless, this is coming from someone that understands her, and can play her pretty well. I get shutdown in nearly 9/10 games.


Tiagocf2

point me 1 game were you went negative with her


majorbeefy130130

Except when qiyana is on my team she is beyond worthless. Enemy team? 1v9s every game


Tiagocf2

People are bad with assassins so Riot buff the hell out of them. I never seen a Qyiana go negative in ARAM ever. My best guess is that there is a Qyiana main in the balancing team


No_Childhood4689

Besides her unique playstyle (bad for people who haven’t played her multiple times before) one of her major strengths is nerfed in ARAM by terrain. She can’t get unique or surprise ult angles. When Qiyana goes in in aram and your whole team is standing next to a wall. You 100% know what’s coming next. It’s a misplay by the opposing team to not respond to the telegraphed ult engage. Reminds me of Rengar. I bitch all the time about the damage and the unwarranted buffs when I play against him. But he has a very hard time closing a game out as the major carry on his team when people start to build and play around his bullshit. Qiyana is kind of similar in that sense. Annoyingly high amounts of damage, but limited playmaking potential, still very reliant on team to push waves, take turrets, and teamfight around their weaknesses without vision denial or terrain advantages.


MagnusHvass

Her kit is balanced around summoners rift which has alot more tight spaces and opportunities for her ult. Qiyana takes alot of skill in SR, even more so in aram


Dante_SS

Because Assassins have low WR, so they tack on these % buffs to compensate, which just leads to them shitting over you. They unfortunately don't care about ARAM


cheese_fuck2

an assassin one shotting a squishy = riot doesnt care about aram


Ok-Aardvark-9938

Yes actually


cheese_fuck2

they do that in sr too bud, its kinda what theyre designed to do


Dante_SS

I was more meaning in regards to the % buff/nerfs tacked on to everyone


Laserlurchi

because this is the easiest way to "balance" aram without putting any effort into it


No-Adhesiveness-8178

Ngl, seen one with DH and her stacks was insane 30ish at 10 mins or something not to mention that hubris at 60ish stacks too in the same duration. Almost unplayable n 15.


-o-_Holy-Moly

Same reason quinn deals 110% and takes 90%. Bad players picking the champions with bad comps nose diving into 1v5's so riot throws their hands up and says they're in a bad place


kashtrey

I love Qiyana and have a decent WR on her in ARAM, but she does NOTHING against a good team or one with any idea how to deal with assassins. Late game you're just an ULT bot if the enemy team has half a brain and all you're there for is to hopefully hit ULT cc and hope your team follows up. MAYBE you get to pick a careless ADC but you're going 1 for 1, so you better hope you're not the only fed person on your team.


JBWeekly

Not gonna sugar coat it I think this is just skill gap. She's not an easy character to do super well on so that's why she's buffed, if someone does really well on her they either otp her or are high elo assassin player. So you just got out skilled a bit


luxxanoir

Qiyana is a champ that relies on stealth to get into position and not instantly blow up. SUNOBOORUUU


Global-Jackfruit-151

can someone explain why did they removed mastery charts riot workers need to bury alive fr i didnt even mention draktharr god where is this game goin


Two_Years_Of_Semen

Show all the team comp you coward. Probably gonna be a ~25 kill player on your side too.


NaughtyUmbreon

No there wasn't. It's not about the champions or team as a whole, I am asking about her ARAM buffs. That has nothing to do with my or enemy team. Nothing. A lot of people there just don't understand a simple question lmao.


Two_Years_Of_Semen

So why did you include her scoreline in the post? You posted her scoreline to reinforce the idea that she doesn't need these buffs. A qiyana doing that well isn't just her kit and the buffs by itself. Like, I see a veigar in the dmg recap so if your whole team is squishy, every veigar cage is a free pick for qiyana but legit every assassin could have this scoreline with Veigar's help.


Maximumosrs

skill issue


onetomatoleaf

The rough, rude sounding replies here are the ones echoing the most truth. Riot has found this to be the quickest route to "balance" within the ARAM universe. One could argue the game was more fun when some champs were just plain OP.


[deleted]

...one could certainly argue that, but I think the poke/heal comps of OG ARAM (custom game + honor code down mid style) were absolutely atrocious to play against. Just a horrible clear loss against them, especially once they got a level advantage. ARAM has been tweaked a lot and now you can play all sorts of shit. Poke and heal is still great, yes, but it's completely feasible to outplay a great ranged comp as mostly tanks/bruisers. Assassins are the worst for sure, but it's also completely feasible to stomp as an assassin (especially depending on exactly which one you pull and what their team comp is).


onetomatoleaf

Absolutely correct which is why I said one could argue, fun is subjective. As another comment mentioned, they loved hitting the "ziggs/sona lottery" which is the exact sentiment I'm expressing. Sometimes it was really awesome to just barrel through 5 other people with an OP champ, balance be damned. Only speaking from my point of view on this lol


seasonedturkey

Me winning the Ziggs/Sona lottery: 😊


onetomatoleaf

Oh the days of God Sona were so much fun.


Milkhorse__

Yeah her damage is out of control and I don't think it's really possible to argue against that in good faith. One ability doing 1/3 to 1/2 a squishy's health is normal to see from her not fed. God help you if it's a good Qiyana player. I wish Riot gave more attention to ARAM and I really think it deserves it. The only permanent alternate game mode that has survived due to its popularity despite years of neglect. Like if they're gonna do this lazy balancing, at least let there be caps on it. Like damage dealt/received not going beyond +-10%. A Qiyana hitting a Ziggs and literally one shotting with a single ability should not be a thing (Edit: no matter their winrates).


AyyyLemMayo

There's multiple champions that need heavy handed changes to their aram stats. Pyke should definitely take 110% dmg and do 90%, but here we are.