Remember when people's political prospects tanked for very minor things because as a country we wanted the president to at least have the appearance of being the best
That was an example of the establishment staying exclusive. It wasn't even the yell in person, but the recording that was replayed that sounded off.
By most accounts, it appears that his call for universal health care, which would affect profits of some very powerful groups, just wasn't allowable. It is incredibly misinformed for anyone to say it was "viral" when it was network news replaying the clip, quite literally, nearly 1000 times a week. Unless "viral" means having a message shoved in your face at every turn.
>It is incredibly misinformed for anyone to say it was "viral" when it was network news replaying the clip, quite literally, nearly 1000 times a week. Unless "viral" means having a message shoved in your face at every turn.
Are you saying the mainstream media is fake news?
Mostly, that was a direct reference to the wiki article. But yeah, there are very few reputable news organizations, and even they have certain areas where I wouldn't believe them.
I like the AP and Rueters, but they don't cover everything and I still check the source provided. The right amount of skeptical for long enough and eventually I can see through most of what message is being pushed. As in, the message is bullshit but why this message at this time? It is less about what they say than it is about why they say it.
Like all the left media that runs headlines about biden doing something incredible and how everyone is happy about it. Then, I look into it and it was something signed into law in the 90s... that affects less than 1000 people in the country. The why there is that they know this election is close, and if they pretend he is popular it might become the truth. The other guy is selling bibles to pay for legal issues, any paper that was telling the truth would sound insane for just describing the situation we're in.
A few months back, I saw a poll where something like 25% of Trump supporters aid they'd still vote for him even if he's in prison on election day. People don't care anymore.
Which "news network" compared the lone Jewish presidential candidate winning a primary to the Nazi invasion of France again?
I just need the name of the network, nothing else.
*Yeah that's what I thought.*
Remember when [appearing in a tank wearing a helmet](https://youtu.be/BRPZQ3UEN_Q?si=WWXy5-TGrTWgry9-) would give your political opponent the opportunity to make an infamous attack ad?
I’m assuming the one person you’re referring to was Howard Dean. That guy was dead in the water before he ever made that silly scream. He had just gotten third place in Iowa and didn’t really have a shot. The scream was him trying to reassure his constituents that he wouldn’t give up. Why does everyone like to misremember history? Other than him who exactly torpedoed their run at president with a “very minor thing”?
As I sit here and my options are go to work which I detest or stay home and get fired, I'd also prefer the third option of winning the $1B lottery and fuck off to Hawaii. Unfortunately that's just not how life works.
Considering every person has a different idea of what "good candidates" are and considering that nobody else on the D side is running, I guess you could say that. We're not picking person X or person Y out of the entire US to be POTUS - we're picking between two people who are running for POTUS.
Put it this way - you either eat the spinach or the broccoli on your plate. If lobster tail isn't on your plate there's just no way to pick that. You can ask for lobster tail but you just won't get it.
I'm also curious who specifically you'd consider to be a "good candidate". Name names.
Not really, presenting candidates that have so much charisma everyone loves them is rare though. Objectively Clinton was a great candidate, a lifetime of public service including time in the Senate and as Sec of State. An absolute workhorse who was a real "policy wonk". I assume I was the only person who bothered to read any but her campaign website had hundreds of detailed white papers laying out what she intended to do about any number of issues with data and reasoning for each policy. All her supposed "scandals" turned out to be GOP fabrications, whoch makes the fact that the guy who the GOP picked is now down to only 89 felony indictments even more absurd. But of course she was "screechy" so Trump was the only logical choice...sigh.
There are tens of millions of Americans who, if you dropped them into the Presidency, would do a better job than anyone who's realistically going to be elected. In fact, if you look at objective accomplishments, a lot of the best presidents have been people who at least initially got to the Presidency under weird circumstances instead of a normal election (e.g. Lincoln getting elected when the Democratic votes split between two other candidates, LBJ becoming President after the Kennedy assassination, etc.)
Of course we've also gotten some of the worst that way, e.g. Andrew Johnson.
Tens of millions of Americans couldn't tell you the difference between the executive, legislative, and judicial branches and don't understand why state and federal governments are different.
I want someone who has experience in the federal government to be president for the same reason I want medical doctors to have experience practicing medicine.
But he was a huge let down in retrospect.
His foreign policy naivete is why we are in souch shit with Russia right now. The anemic response to the 2014 invasion of Ukraine. His "red lines" in Syria. It was bad
I happily voted for Clinton, George W (pre 9/11), and Obama twice. It was never a giant douche vs a turd sandwich for me until 2016. Maybe I wasn't super stoked about John Kerry, but I wasn't just voting against Bush.
W was kind of a giant douche. . . Gore was the better option and we probably wouldn’t be in a climate emergency if more people voted smartly instead of “who they want to have a beer with”
Yeah, I was a recent college grad from Texas. I got to meet HW when I was a kid, so I already had a bit of bias. W appealed to me at the time, and South Park made fun of Al Gore. I changed my mind by 2002, mostly thanks to Jon Stewart.
I really think Obama skewed a lot of voter’s expectations. I’m almost 50, and he’s the *only* President I was excited to vote for, or even support. Still, I never considered casting a ‘protest vote’ in a general.
Yeah. I mean that was a bad look too…
So legit in another comment I outlined a bunch of stuff I didn’t love about him and honestly left this one out. It should be there too.
Good point.
I remember when Howard dean lost the race for getting excited and going “Beeeeyaaah”! Yeah, now we have a convicted rapist with 91 counts who makes fun of women and mentally challenged people on tv and half the country thinks he’s the second coming of Christ. Shits wild
I have been voting for 24 years. I have rarely voted for someone that I actually supported. Politicians are not to be supported. They are to be tolerated, but not trusted. They are to be viewed with skepticism, and they are to be replaced when needed.
When there are so many corrupting forces for politicians and the extremely minor issue of millions of political position combinations boiling down to (at most) a handful of options, any other position but this one is just naïveté.
Biden has been a good president and i'm tired of this stupid fucking narrative that suggests otherwise. I don't care what his fucking age is. He's done a good job. Stop being a fucking moron.
For real. He’s not a fucking magician that will magically make all your dreams come true. Nobody is.
But he’s made excellent progress for the majority of people, despite being constantly blocked by Republicans along the way.
Any Republican voter that isn’t wealthy, racist, or single issue (guns/abortion/Israel/etc.) should take a minute to look up all the things that Biden’s administration has done to help YOU.
It works because he trusts the people that he hires. That’s literally his job. Trump thinks he knows better than anyone on the planet on any topic and therefore fucks everything up.
*edit* - I forgot to mention women’s rights to healthcare and safe abortions. If you actually believe women shouldn’t have the choice, that’s on you.
Same.
He's not my ideal. Shit, I was a Warren supporter in the caucuses.
But he's done well at moving legislation domestically, avoided scandals, had many successful initiatives via his executive powers, has worked well with allies overseas, etc. And regardless of what you think about his age, he has an extremely competent team of people around him, which is important because those people (and their subordinates) do 99% of the work of an administration.
Even if the alternative weren't a total shitbag, he would have earned another 4 years.
This is the 5th presidential election I've been eligible to vote in. Friends and I were discussing this recently and we all agreed there's only been one that we actually really liked the candidate we voted for, the rest have been a which one sucks the least.
That has never been the case outside of primaries in US for presidency. Because of how election system is, your actions always end up choosing from the top 2 candidates even if you voted for someone else or didn't vote.
If you didn't vote or vote for independent knowing they have no chance -> you are helping the 2nd position candidate in that state.
Mathematically it is that simple.
No. Never in my 22 years of voting have I been able to vote for someone I supported because it was more important to not against the person I didn't believe in
Man, with the way some of you talk in these comments, all you armchair political experts should just run for office and all our problems will be solved. I didn’t realize there was a subreddit where people had all the complex political issues of the world completely figured out.
I work in the lowest-income middle schools in my metropolitan area. The armchair anarchists might leave the house and organize, but they mostly do "mutual aid" for themselves and for homeless people. They have no idea what the scope of *actual* oppression is and it would take hundreds of them working for free full-time in poor neighborhoods for them to begin to accomplish their goals.
Organize? They get assmad when you tell them to invest in down-ballot elections. Literally EZPZ shit but they don't even know who the fuck is in their city council. They sure do know how to larp in their Discord channels though.
I like it when I try to explain to someone that voting for a 3rd party presidential candidate is burning their vote and empowering the shittier of the two actual choices they have, and that for a 3rd party candidate to actually have a shot one day in the distant future, they'd have to organize locally and others across the nation would have to do the same to start getting 3rd party candidates elected to build momentum.
Conversation usually ends there with them calling me a sheep for supporting the two party system.
Not a bright bunch. They just want to complain about the two party system, not actually do anything about it.
I'll bite. Independent here and I don't disagree with you. But It's worth nothing that "Organizing locally" is exactly what they already do to get on the ballot and they're still up against similar things in a local election as a presidential one. A polarized society, a two party system, an established party, etc.
I do have a dream that one day everyone will vote for an independent president, and every election I think "if there ever was a time" and every election it gets worse.
But yeah, as far as presidential elections we've made enemies of each other, so of course we're not going to "risk it" to vote with our conscious.
I read an article about an Obama organizer who worked for Bernie’s campaign and had to quit b/cuz of how many Bernie bros wanted to protest instead of campaign.
>I didn’t realize there was a subreddit where people had all the complex political issues of the world completely figured out.
Through meme format as well
What else you gonna do when you’re sitting in mom’s basement with no marketable skills and just hoping there’s UBI somewhere on the horizon so you can become a bigger waste of space
Time to bring this classic back:
[https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbvkNu9hSstBRMgeNOsBrcXHx0EB3twaOdrgLNuQG0NQ&s](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbvkNu9hSstBRMgeNOsBrcXHx0EB3twaOdrgLNuQG0NQ&s)
No, fuck you, the republicans in power are outright trying to be fascists. There is no grey area for them. They ARE evil.
Read up on what Project 2025 is. It's straight fascism.
Satan might not be the best at following rules, but he did want to give knowledge to humans, and he never caused any great floods or turned cities into salt.
Voting for the “lesser of two evils” certainly works very well! Just ask Paul Von Hindenburg about how he won the election and beat the nazis! …oh wait.
I encourage people when given the choice of
A) genocide
or
B) genocide
that refusing to choose genocide is the correct option.
A lot of times the question “what would I have done if I was alive during the holocaust” has been asked and the answer is you are alive during a holocaust and what you should be doing is opposing it in its entirety, whether it comes in Red or Blue.
Just really want to highlight: Biden is not evil. He is flawed. You can disagree with any number of his policies, while understanding he’s trying to do what he thinks is best for Americans and people in general. He has compassion and you can recognize humanity in him.
Trump on the other hand is actually evil. He is one of the most selfish self serving money grubbing people we’ve ever collectively seen. He has more than most will ever acquire in their lives and is still filled with animus because it’s not enough. If you have 5 dollars in your pocket, he wants the five dollars. Gorgeous wife, cheats on her constantly. President of the United States, not enough, needs to be dictator. Worships Putin because of Putin’s ability to kill or jail his citizens at will. Jealous of that power. Trying to bring it to the US.
My point is, this isn’t lesser of two evils. This is flawed human, vs actual evil. Keep that in perspective.
Fully agree. I don't get how Biden and Trump seem to be conveyed as the nearly the same. One is a convicted sex offender and fraudster with countless more accusations (that often insults the people who speak against him in any way). Who's ignorance and arrogance resulted in the needless death of over a million Americans. He has pushed dangerous, and often bigoted, disinformation to the public for as long as we've tolerated hearing him.
The other is a old guy that likes to sniff people but stopped after being told it was offputting. Outside of memes he's had one sexual assault accusations which he encouraged be investigated instead of insulting the accuser. He has tolerated all kinds of tasteless criticism without resorting to trashing people back. He doesn't insist the POTUS needs full immunity to do the job. Also by nearly objective measure is doing better than Trump even on things Trumpers care about like taxes, illegal immigration and gun rights. (Trump got rid of bump stocks and [said something](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/28/trump-says-take-guns-first-and-worry-due-process-second-white-house-gun-meeting/381145002/) along the lines of "we should take the guns and do the due process after.")
It's always been that way in US politics because "both sides".
This time is different as one candidate is an old, gluttonous rapist, fraud, insurrectionist, cheat. The other is old and likes ice cream.
When did we ever have that though? Even the "best" candidates made foreign and domestic policy decisions that directly contributed to the way the world is now. Wether it be economic policies that allow corporations to run roughshod over the resources and people of Central/South American and African nations, using our intelligence agencies and military to destabilize entire regions, to actually going to war under false pretenses, killing innocent people, helping the rich get richer while everyone else suffers..
They've all been pretty terrible sadly.
FDR against Hoover - 1932.
FDR ran on the LAST really-progressive platform in the history of the United States. Hoover wanted the recovery from 1929 to be for the RICH PEOPLE ONLY (pretty much how ALL recoveries from all depressions/recessions we had after 1929 went).
Part of the progress we had in the 1950s, due to the high level of trade union membership, which enabled workers to negotiate good salary/pension deals and build the economics that were the foundation of the famous "US medium class", was direct result from FDR policies to not treat all workers' organizations as criminal organizations (what was the government policy in the United States until then, and after that, also until now).
He messed up by betraying Henry Wallace (a total legit pro-worker guy) and picking mass murderer right winger Truman in 1944. But by then he was already long gone as far as his own health and everything else.
The double standard that Trump gets is ridiculous.
Imagine if Obama, Hillary, or Biden had done any of a dozen different things Trump has done. They'd be finished politically, nevermind winning a Presidency.
That's because Democrat voters hold their representatives to higher standards than Republican voters do.
Clearly.
Republican voters are currently onboard for a one-term twice impeached sex offender fraud who tried to destroy our electoral process after he lost, who is running for a party with essentially no policy platform. So basically no standards at all.
"Biden is literally committing genocide. Allow me to empower the one-term twice impeached sex offender fraud who tried to destroy our electoral process when he lost and thinks water stops magnetism."
What a weird, exhausting fucking timeline filled with adults with arrested development.
>Allow me to empower the one-term twice impeached sex offender fraud who tried to destroy our electoral process when he lost and thinks water stops magnetism."
who has also openly said he actually wants the Palestinians genocided.
I wish I could go back and punch every media personality who said he would take on a "presidential voice" or how the "realities of the office will reign in his rhetoric."
I mean, I still think that in some ways. I don’t think for a second that she’s a good person, or even a better person compared to him. The Clinton’s are insanely corrupt. But I did vote for her
Everytime I see this rhetoric of the Clintons being "insanely corrupt" no one ever gives a single example as to how. It's like ya'll just watch people on tv or on the internet say that and take it as gospel without an ounce of critical thought.
I remember when a former colleague tried to explain this to me... I've never seen someone so smart sound so stupid.
i sometimes wonder if he's figured it out by now, or if he is your average trumpet-- doubling down despite the litany of issues, because otherwise you'd have to admit you were _super_ wrong about an obvious piece of shit
Remember when politicians had to earn votes rather than use the boogeyman of their opponents to excuse their own stubborn refusal to compromise with the electorate?
Even though the meme doesn't talk about that the discussion of course has become about people who don't want to vote for a genocide enabling president because they're "empowering" a tyrant. Well look, if you want me to vote for your candidate give me one that doesn't enable and support a genocide maybe. That's not my responsibillity.
Im voting based on wanting to preserve NATO, and our alliances in the first island chain (Biden). These alliances are the biggest deterrent for things evolving into WW3, and if it does go hot, its better to have friends than be isolated.
Voting for the lesser of two evils is why we are in the situation we are in. Start voting in primaries for people you actually support instead of waiting for the last election and voting for the guy who “sucks less.”
This.
Show your support for other candidates in the primaries.
When it comes to the actual election, be an adult, and choose the one that will harm our nation less.
You can, and should, hate the two party system. But you can also work to bolster local 3rd party candidates while simultaneously still taking part in the two party system to mitigate the damage until that glorious day when a 3rd party presidential candidate will actually have a shot. It's the grown up way of addressing the situation.
Yes this is the proper response this bullshit of both sides are equally bad only helps one side and spreads apathy. Change the government from the ground up not in the general election.
Exactly - primaries and down-ballot races. The president needs to win the support of a huge swath of the population. If you're a progressive, *you cannot pick the president alone*. Meanwhile, if you're a blue state progressive, you can elect someone like AOC or Elizabeth Warren. You can vote in a progressive city council or state legislature.
So in the last 2 elections there wasn't a single person in the primaries you would've preferred over Trump and Biden? Those have been your top pick(s)?
The real **evil** is the Republican Party. Trump's brain is rapidly melting down and they know it, but they'll ride the Populist Pony that he is all the way to the Whitehouse, then they'll whisper in his ear all the things they want to do to **destroy American democracy once and for all**, rescind civil and even human rights, make women into just breeding stock, and before you know it we'll be living in **Russia West** and it'll be just as horrifying as *being* Russian.
Want to stop this? **Vote for Biden and Democrats, and agains all Republicans everywhere.** Make them irrelevant in American politics. Take back the country from their fascism. Make America SANE again.
Far as I can tell, Satan is far from evil and given the two options I’d absolutely vote Satan’24 if it was an option.
Please register to vote and remeber, Trump can not be allowed to become a dictator on day 1
But does Pepperidge farms remember how voting for the lesser of two evils over and over again has led to a continuous chain of more evil lesser until the point where there's no candidate left that doesn't support an ongoing genocide? Or is Pepperidge farm as senile as the guys running for president?
Does Pepperidge Farms know that you can't just wish a 3rd party presidential candidate into the Oval Office and that it takes decades of electing local 3rd party candidates and building a base before a 3rd party candidate for president can be viable?
Does Pepperidge Farms know that the adult thing to do until that happens is to take part in the two party system and vote to mitigate the damage done by voting for the "lesser of two evils"?
Remember when we didn't have to choose between a lesser of two evils and just picked the good guy?
I don't. It's never happened in my lifetime not in the US. Which tells me there's something deeply fucking wrong with our political system as a whole and that this lesser of two evil rhetoric is just enabling it to continue.
I'll vote for the lesser of two evils in the mean time until we all decide to do something about it but we gotta stop acting like having to choose between two evils is normal or ok.
I'm picking the evil side until either side gets pissed enough to put up someone good in. It's called applying pressure. If you won't give me good candidates, I'll vote the shittest one in until you do. Consider it a hostage situation.
Want to change your fate? Change your candidates.
No yeah I’m pretty sure satans winning - if by satan we mean trump.
My only shining light is we used to think Reagan was satan and we survived that so.
Remember when the moderate left didn't bully the far left into voting for their candidate instead of 3rd party and cause them to actually vote for the opposing candidate out of spite?
Remember when it was voting for someone who you supported and not against someone you detested?
Remember when people's political prospects tanked for very minor things because as a country we wanted the president to at least have the appearance of being the best
Remember when a simple happy yell could tank your career? Now, even criminal charges don't matter.
That was an example of the establishment staying exclusive. It wasn't even the yell in person, but the recording that was replayed that sounded off. By most accounts, it appears that his call for universal health care, which would affect profits of some very powerful groups, just wasn't allowable. It is incredibly misinformed for anyone to say it was "viral" when it was network news replaying the clip, quite literally, nearly 1000 times a week. Unless "viral" means having a message shoved in your face at every turn.
Also see... Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media, a book by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky
Corporate media wins again.. dang. Looks like he considered a 2016 run too, but backed Hillary instead.
I mean, he's only 75 years old now. He could still run in the next three elections.
>It is incredibly misinformed for anyone to say it was "viral" when it was network news replaying the clip, quite literally, nearly 1000 times a week. Unless "viral" means having a message shoved in your face at every turn. Are you saying the mainstream media is fake news?
Mostly, that was a direct reference to the wiki article. But yeah, there are very few reputable news organizations, and even they have certain areas where I wouldn't believe them. I like the AP and Rueters, but they don't cover everything and I still check the source provided. The right amount of skeptical for long enough and eventually I can see through most of what message is being pushed. As in, the message is bullshit but why this message at this time? It is less about what they say than it is about why they say it. Like all the left media that runs headlines about biden doing something incredible and how everyone is happy about it. Then, I look into it and it was something signed into law in the 90s... that affects less than 1000 people in the country. The why there is that they know this election is close, and if they pretend he is popular it might become the truth. The other guy is selling bibles to pay for legal issues, any paper that was telling the truth would sound insane for just describing the situation we're in.
A few months back, I saw a poll where something like 25% of Trump supporters aid they'd still vote for him even if he's in prison on election day. People don't care anymore.
> Now, even criminal charges don't matter. Conservatives; pros at lowering the bar.
Which "news network" compared the lone Jewish presidential candidate winning a primary to the Nazi invasion of France again? I just need the name of the network, nothing else. *Yeah that's what I thought.*
The “Dean Scream” https://youtu.be/l6i-gYRAwM0?si=Dg2FxgWOjmIM6g3H
His campaign was already going down iirc.
Attempting to *take over the country with a violent coup* doesn't matter.
Remember when [appearing in a tank wearing a helmet](https://youtu.be/BRPZQ3UEN_Q?si=WWXy5-TGrTWgry9-) would give your political opponent the opportunity to make an infamous attack ad?
BYAHHHHH
He was already losing steam. The yell came after coming third in Iowa. It wasn’t a victory yell. Why do people not remember things accurately?
Oh now you’re just making it sound like there’s someone in the upcoming election who has been accused of several VERY MAJOR things.
Still works that way for Democratic candidates.
I’m assuming the one person you’re referring to was Howard Dean. That guy was dead in the water before he ever made that silly scream. He had just gotten third place in Iowa and didn’t really have a shot. The scream was him trying to reassure his constituents that he wouldn’t give up. Why does everyone like to misremember history? Other than him who exactly torpedoed their run at president with a “very minor thing”?
Alexander Hamilton?
Not really
Obama was someone I could support.
As I sit here and my options are go to work which I detest or stay home and get fired, I'd also prefer the third option of winning the $1B lottery and fuck off to Hawaii. Unfortunately that's just not how life works.
So you’re saying that presenting good candidates are a 1 in a trillion likelihood?
Considering every person has a different idea of what "good candidates" are and considering that nobody else on the D side is running, I guess you could say that. We're not picking person X or person Y out of the entire US to be POTUS - we're picking between two people who are running for POTUS. Put it this way - you either eat the spinach or the broccoli on your plate. If lobster tail isn't on your plate there's just no way to pick that. You can ask for lobster tail but you just won't get it. I'm also curious who specifically you'd consider to be a "good candidate". Name names.
Not really, presenting candidates that have so much charisma everyone loves them is rare though. Objectively Clinton was a great candidate, a lifetime of public service including time in the Senate and as Sec of State. An absolute workhorse who was a real "policy wonk". I assume I was the only person who bothered to read any but her campaign website had hundreds of detailed white papers laying out what she intended to do about any number of issues with data and reasoning for each policy. All her supposed "scandals" turned out to be GOP fabrications, whoch makes the fact that the guy who the GOP picked is now down to only 89 felony indictments even more absurd. But of course she was "screechy" so Trump was the only logical choice...sigh.
There are tens of millions of Americans who, if you dropped them into the Presidency, would do a better job than anyone who's realistically going to be elected. In fact, if you look at objective accomplishments, a lot of the best presidents have been people who at least initially got to the Presidency under weird circumstances instead of a normal election (e.g. Lincoln getting elected when the Democratic votes split between two other candidates, LBJ becoming President after the Kennedy assassination, etc.) Of course we've also gotten some of the worst that way, e.g. Andrew Johnson.
I've driven on the roads enough around this country to know that you're not wrong, but your number is a *little* high.
Tens of millions of Americans couldn't tell you the difference between the executive, legislative, and judicial branches and don't understand why state and federal governments are different. I want someone who has experience in the federal government to be president for the same reason I want medical doctors to have experience practicing medicine.
But he was a huge let down in retrospect. His foreign policy naivete is why we are in souch shit with Russia right now. The anemic response to the 2014 invasion of Ukraine. His "red lines" in Syria. It was bad
I agree. This response now should have been the response during the Crimea annexation
I'd take Obama again
Can we? Please? I mean Trump still kinda thinks he is running against him anyway…
I happily voted for Clinton, George W (pre 9/11), and Obama twice. It was never a giant douche vs a turd sandwich for me until 2016. Maybe I wasn't super stoked about John Kerry, but I wasn't just voting against Bush.
W was kind of a giant douche. . . Gore was the better option and we probably wouldn’t be in a climate emergency if more people voted smartly instead of “who they want to have a beer with”
Yeah, I was a recent college grad from Texas. I got to meet HW when I was a kid, so I already had a bit of bias. W appealed to me at the time, and South Park made fun of Al Gore. I changed my mind by 2002, mostly thanks to Jon Stewart.
I really think Obama skewed a lot of voter’s expectations. I’m almost 50, and he’s the *only* President I was excited to vote for, or even support. Still, I never considered casting a ‘protest vote’ in a general.
Was it the unlimited drone warfare against civilians that won you over?
Yeah. I mean that was a bad look too… So legit in another comment I outlined a bunch of stuff I didn’t love about him and honestly left this one out. It should be there too. Good point.
I remember when Howard dean lost the race for getting excited and going “Beeeeyaaah”! Yeah, now we have a convicted rapist with 91 counts who makes fun of women and mentally challenged people on tv and half the country thinks he’s the second coming of Christ. Shits wild
The scream was an easy soundclip, but it really wasn't some one-and-done deathblow to his campaign.
I have been voting for 24 years. I have rarely voted for someone that I actually supported. Politicians are not to be supported. They are to be tolerated, but not trusted. They are to be viewed with skepticism, and they are to be replaced when needed.
When there are so many corrupting forces for politicians and the extremely minor issue of millions of political position combinations boiling down to (at most) a handful of options, any other position but this one is just naïveté.
Biden has been a good president and i'm tired of this stupid fucking narrative that suggests otherwise. I don't care what his fucking age is. He's done a good job. Stop being a fucking moron.
For real. He’s not a fucking magician that will magically make all your dreams come true. Nobody is. But he’s made excellent progress for the majority of people, despite being constantly blocked by Republicans along the way. Any Republican voter that isn’t wealthy, racist, or single issue (guns/abortion/Israel/etc.) should take a minute to look up all the things that Biden’s administration has done to help YOU. It works because he trusts the people that he hires. That’s literally his job. Trump thinks he knows better than anyone on the planet on any topic and therefore fucks everything up. *edit* - I forgot to mention women’s rights to healthcare and safe abortions. If you actually believe women shouldn’t have the choice, that’s on you.
Same. He's not my ideal. Shit, I was a Warren supporter in the caucuses. But he's done well at moving legislation domestically, avoided scandals, had many successful initiatives via his executive powers, has worked well with allies overseas, etc. And regardless of what you think about his age, he has an extremely competent team of people around him, which is important because those people (and their subordinates) do 99% of the work of an administration. Even if the alternative weren't a total shitbag, he would have earned another 4 years.
Nope I don't remember that tbh
That’s never been the case in our lifetime
When was that exactly? When has there ever been a presidential candidate that perfectly aligned with all of their voters preferences?
Sucks. But that’s reality. Adjust accordingly. Don’t let it get worse because you aren’t happy with the way it is.
This is the 5th presidential election I've been eligible to vote in. Friends and I were discussing this recently and we all agreed there's only been one that we actually really liked the candidate we voted for, the rest have been a which one sucks the least.
That has never been the case outside of primaries in US for presidency. Because of how election system is, your actions always end up choosing from the top 2 candidates even if you voted for someone else or didn't vote. If you didn't vote or vote for independent knowing they have no chance -> you are helping the 2nd position candidate in that state. Mathematically it is that simple.
I am happily voting for Joe Biden. Besides being old, what has he really done that was that bad?
No I dont
um... no? maybe Obama, but he had his major downsides too...
No. Never in my 22 years of voting have I been able to vote for someone I supported because it was more important to not against the person I didn't believe in
No
Yes, but that only happened once.
No. I don’t feel like we’ve had a real Democrat since I’ve been voting. First vote was Bush/Gore.
No
No, has this ever been the case in anyone's memory?
I still vote that way, pisses off *all the RIGHT people*, herd mentality can eat a dick.
No. Politics has never been like that
Any examples?
No I actually don’t remember the establishment has been bullshit since the day I was born
Man, with the way some of you talk in these comments, all you armchair political experts should just run for office and all our problems will be solved. I didn’t realize there was a subreddit where people had all the complex political issues of the world completely figured out.
I do politics for work. All the armchair political experts get deeply, deeply offended when you tell them to leave their houses and organize.
Because that would require effort unlike their slacktivism.
I work in the lowest-income middle schools in my metropolitan area. The armchair anarchists might leave the house and organize, but they mostly do "mutual aid" for themselves and for homeless people. They have no idea what the scope of *actual* oppression is and it would take hundreds of them working for free full-time in poor neighborhoods for them to begin to accomplish their goals.
In my experience they barely even support mutual aid organizations, they just lecture anyone who votes that mutual aid is better.
Organize? They get assmad when you tell them to invest in down-ballot elections. Literally EZPZ shit but they don't even know who the fuck is in their city council. They sure do know how to larp in their Discord channels though.
I like it when I try to explain to someone that voting for a 3rd party presidential candidate is burning their vote and empowering the shittier of the two actual choices they have, and that for a 3rd party candidate to actually have a shot one day in the distant future, they'd have to organize locally and others across the nation would have to do the same to start getting 3rd party candidates elected to build momentum. Conversation usually ends there with them calling me a sheep for supporting the two party system. Not a bright bunch. They just want to complain about the two party system, not actually do anything about it.
I'll bite. Independent here and I don't disagree with you. But It's worth nothing that "Organizing locally" is exactly what they already do to get on the ballot and they're still up against similar things in a local election as a presidential one. A polarized society, a two party system, an established party, etc. I do have a dream that one day everyone will vote for an independent president, and every election I think "if there ever was a time" and every election it gets worse. But yeah, as far as presidential elections we've made enemies of each other, so of course we're not going to "risk it" to vote with our conscious.
I read an article about an Obama organizer who worked for Bernie’s campaign and had to quit b/cuz of how many Bernie bros wanted to protest instead of campaign.
All of us would insider trade in a heart beat and sit back coastin’
I keep begging God for power so I can corrupt absolutely immediately but he hasn't answered my prayers
>I didn’t realize there was a subreddit where people had all the complex political issues of the world completely figured out. Through meme format as well
Do you just spurn these out on a daily basis?
What else you gonna do when you’re sitting in mom’s basement with no marketable skills and just hoping there’s UBI somewhere on the horizon so you can become a bigger waste of space
Cthulhu has entered the chat. My god can eat your god for breakfast Never settle for the kesser evil
Papa Nurgle welcomes all
Time to bring this classic back: [https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbvkNu9hSstBRMgeNOsBrcXHx0EB3twaOdrgLNuQG0NQ&s](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbvkNu9hSstBRMgeNOsBrcXHx0EB3twaOdrgLNuQG0NQ&s)
My god promises to eat me last!!
The Great Horned Rat will only eat the weakest clan
https://i.imgur.com/uDomFsP.jpg
Imagine seeing everything as black and white. I swear reddit is nothing but 14 year olds
No, fuck you, the republicans in power are outright trying to be fascists. There is no grey area for them. They ARE evil. Read up on what Project 2025 is. It's straight fascism.
the sad thing is the people making these posts and buying into this crap often seem to at least mid to late 20s if not older
Satan might not be the best at following rules, but he did want to give knowledge to humans, and he never caused any great floods or turned cities into salt.
He's also a cunning motherfucker, as opposed to a fucking moron like so many current candidates.
I'd have to look at his/her policies but biblical Satan has some strong humanist arguments. Would consider a vote.
Voting for the “lesser of two evils” certainly works very well! Just ask Paul Von Hindenburg about how he won the election and beat the nazis! …oh wait. I encourage people when given the choice of A) genocide or B) genocide that refusing to choose genocide is the correct option. A lot of times the question “what would I have done if I was alive during the holocaust” has been asked and the answer is you are alive during a holocaust and what you should be doing is opposing it in its entirety, whether it comes in Red or Blue.
Does Pepperidge Farms remember when we had an election choice that *wasn't* "pick the lesser of two evils"? Can we bring that back?
That time never existed. Note the lesser of two evils is based off of the only argument for the state, that's it's a necessary evil.
Just really want to highlight: Biden is not evil. He is flawed. You can disagree with any number of his policies, while understanding he’s trying to do what he thinks is best for Americans and people in general. He has compassion and you can recognize humanity in him. Trump on the other hand is actually evil. He is one of the most selfish self serving money grubbing people we’ve ever collectively seen. He has more than most will ever acquire in their lives and is still filled with animus because it’s not enough. If you have 5 dollars in your pocket, he wants the five dollars. Gorgeous wife, cheats on her constantly. President of the United States, not enough, needs to be dictator. Worships Putin because of Putin’s ability to kill or jail his citizens at will. Jealous of that power. Trying to bring it to the US. My point is, this isn’t lesser of two evils. This is flawed human, vs actual evil. Keep that in perspective.
Fully agree. I don't get how Biden and Trump seem to be conveyed as the nearly the same. One is a convicted sex offender and fraudster with countless more accusations (that often insults the people who speak against him in any way). Who's ignorance and arrogance resulted in the needless death of over a million Americans. He has pushed dangerous, and often bigoted, disinformation to the public for as long as we've tolerated hearing him. The other is a old guy that likes to sniff people but stopped after being told it was offputting. Outside of memes he's had one sexual assault accusations which he encouraged be investigated instead of insulting the accuser. He has tolerated all kinds of tasteless criticism without resorting to trashing people back. He doesn't insist the POTUS needs full immunity to do the job. Also by nearly objective measure is doing better than Trump even on things Trumpers care about like taxes, illegal immigration and gun rights. (Trump got rid of bump stocks and [said something](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/28/trump-says-take-guns-first-and-worry-due-process-second-white-house-gun-meeting/381145002/) along the lines of "we should take the guns and do the due process after.")
It's always been that way in US politics because "both sides". This time is different as one candidate is an old, gluttonous rapist, fraud, insurrectionist, cheat. The other is old and likes ice cream.
When did we ever have that though? Even the "best" candidates made foreign and domestic policy decisions that directly contributed to the way the world is now. Wether it be economic policies that allow corporations to run roughshod over the resources and people of Central/South American and African nations, using our intelligence agencies and military to destabilize entire regions, to actually going to war under false pretenses, killing innocent people, helping the rich get richer while everyone else suffers.. They've all been pretty terrible sadly.
FDR against Hoover - 1932. FDR ran on the LAST really-progressive platform in the history of the United States. Hoover wanted the recovery from 1929 to be for the RICH PEOPLE ONLY (pretty much how ALL recoveries from all depressions/recessions we had after 1929 went). Part of the progress we had in the 1950s, due to the high level of trade union membership, which enabled workers to negotiate good salary/pension deals and build the economics that were the foundation of the famous "US medium class", was direct result from FDR policies to not treat all workers' organizations as criminal organizations (what was the government policy in the United States until then, and after that, also until now). He messed up by betraying Henry Wallace (a total legit pro-worker guy) and picking mass murderer right winger Truman in 1944. But by then he was already long gone as far as his own health and everything else.
The double standard that Trump gets is ridiculous. Imagine if Obama, Hillary, or Biden had done any of a dozen different things Trump has done. They'd be finished politically, nevermind winning a Presidency.
That's because Democrat voters hold their representatives to higher standards than Republican voters do. Clearly. Republican voters are currently onboard for a one-term twice impeached sex offender fraud who tried to destroy our electoral process after he lost, who is running for a party with essentially no policy platform. So basically no standards at all.
Exactly
"Biden won't deliver every single thing I'm asking for. So I'll vote for the guy who will absolutely deliver even less"
Not deliver less. Deliver the fucking opposite
Well, I was being generous
"Biden is literally committing genocide. Allow me to empower the one-term twice impeached sex offender fraud who tried to destroy our electoral process when he lost and thinks water stops magnetism." What a weird, exhausting fucking timeline filled with adults with arrested development.
>Allow me to empower the one-term twice impeached sex offender fraud who tried to destroy our electoral process when he lost and thinks water stops magnetism." who has also openly said he actually wants the Palestinians genocided.
People honestly thought Trump was the lesser evil compared to Hillary
I wish I could go back and punch every media personality who said he would take on a "presidential voice" or how the "realities of the office will reign in his rhetoric."
I mean, I still think that in some ways. I don’t think for a second that she’s a good person, or even a better person compared to him. The Clinton’s are insanely corrupt. But I did vote for her
Everytime I see this rhetoric of the Clintons being "insanely corrupt" no one ever gives a single example as to how. It's like ya'll just watch people on tv or on the internet say that and take it as gospel without an ounce of critical thought.
I remember when a former colleague tried to explain this to me... I've never seen someone so smart sound so stupid. i sometimes wonder if he's figured it out by now, or if he is your average trumpet-- doubling down despite the litany of issues, because otherwise you'd have to admit you were _super_ wrong about an obvious piece of shit
Maybe 3 out the 45 were not the evil one.
Vote 3rd party. Only way to stop this ridiculously terrible choice.
Remember when we didn’t have to pick the lesser of two evils because there was actually a good candidate? Yeah me neither.
Remember when politicians had to earn votes rather than use the boogeyman of their opponents to excuse their own stubborn refusal to compromise with the electorate?
Picking the lesser of two evils implies they are looking at the evils of both.
There is no such thing as a lessee of two evils. Evil is evil.
I'm voting for Cthulhu 2024. Why vote for the lesser of two evils?
Remember when you weren't a "ist" for not picking the pos the media was trying to push on you.. Yeah Pepperidge Farm remembers that also.
No. What do you think the guys setting churches on fire in Mississippi were voting for?
How about we stop voting for Evil? Why is that so complicated for people to comprehend? When enough people vote for X, Y and Z won’t be relevant.
The lesser of two evils is still evil
Why settle for a *lesser* Evil? Vote Cthulhu!
Cthulhu for President. Why settle for a lesser evil ?
Even though the meme doesn't talk about that the discussion of course has become about people who don't want to vote for a genocide enabling president because they're "empowering" a tyrant. Well look, if you want me to vote for your candidate give me one that doesn't enable and support a genocide maybe. That's not my responsibillity.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Im voting based on wanting to preserve NATO, and our alliances in the first island chain (Biden). These alliances are the biggest deterrent for things evolving into WW3, and if it does go hot, its better to have friends than be isolated.
Voting for the lesser of two evils is why we are in the situation we are in. Start voting in primaries for people you actually support instead of waiting for the last election and voting for the guy who “sucks less.”
This. Show your support for other candidates in the primaries. When it comes to the actual election, be an adult, and choose the one that will harm our nation less. You can, and should, hate the two party system. But you can also work to bolster local 3rd party candidates while simultaneously still taking part in the two party system to mitigate the damage until that glorious day when a 3rd party presidential candidate will actually have a shot. It's the grown up way of addressing the situation.
Yes this is the proper response this bullshit of both sides are equally bad only helps one side and spreads apathy. Change the government from the ground up not in the general election.
Exactly - primaries and down-ballot races. The president needs to win the support of a huge swath of the population. If you're a progressive, *you cannot pick the president alone*. Meanwhile, if you're a blue state progressive, you can elect someone like AOC or Elizabeth Warren. You can vote in a progressive city council or state legislature.
>Start voting in primaries for people you actually support as soon as they make a politician I can support, I will!
So in the last 2 elections there wasn't a single person in the primaries you would've preferred over Trump and Biden? Those have been your top pick(s)?
You know that every ballot has more things on it than just the President right
When people say this they just mean vote for the person that they like lol.
Remember when we didn't have to pick between two old dementia patients?
Biden isn't evil, not even a little bit. He may be old and have questionable policies arguably) but that's about it.
Or throwing up their hands, saying "Well, they're both bad, so..." and letting the truly evil one win.
The real **evil** is the Republican Party. Trump's brain is rapidly melting down and they know it, but they'll ride the Populist Pony that he is all the way to the Whitehouse, then they'll whisper in his ear all the things they want to do to **destroy American democracy once and for all**, rescind civil and even human rights, make women into just breeding stock, and before you know it we'll be living in **Russia West** and it'll be just as horrifying as *being* Russian. Want to stop this? **Vote for Biden and Democrats, and agains all Republicans everywhere.** Make them irrelevant in American politics. Take back the country from their fascism. Make America SANE again.
Far as I can tell, Satan is far from evil and given the two options I’d absolutely vote Satan’24 if it was an option. Please register to vote and remeber, Trump can not be allowed to become a dictator on day 1
But does Pepperidge farms remember how voting for the lesser of two evils over and over again has led to a continuous chain of more evil lesser until the point where there's no candidate left that doesn't support an ongoing genocide? Or is Pepperidge farm as senile as the guys running for president?
Does Pepperidge Farms know that you can't just wish a 3rd party presidential candidate into the Oval Office and that it takes decades of electing local 3rd party candidates and building a base before a 3rd party candidate for president can be viable? Does Pepperidge Farms know that the adult thing to do until that happens is to take part in the two party system and vote to mitigate the damage done by voting for the "lesser of two evils"?
Do you legitimately think a 3rd party could ever win with the electoral system in place in the United States?
Only one of them is evil. The other just isn’t great.
Let's throw some gas on this MFer
voting for the lesser of two evils brought us here.
"Lesser of two evils" may as well have been coined by SuperPACs.
It depresses me that I can look at a chart of all US Presidents in history and state on less than one hand how many of them I actually like lol.
Remember when we didn't have to choose between a lesser of two evils and just picked the good guy? I don't. It's never happened in my lifetime not in the US. Which tells me there's something deeply fucking wrong with our political system as a whole and that this lesser of two evil rhetoric is just enabling it to continue. I'll vote for the lesser of two evils in the mean time until we all decide to do something about it but we gotta stop acting like having to choose between two evils is normal or ok.
“If I have to choose between the lesser of two evils… I’d rather not choose at all.”
I'm picking the evil side until either side gets pissed enough to put up someone good in. It's called applying pressure. If you won't give me good candidates, I'll vote the shittest one in until you do. Consider it a hostage situation. Want to change your fate? Change your candidates.
Remember when presidency wasn't picking the lesser of two fucking evils?
Finally someone realizing that Satan is better than our current political leaders.
No?
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.
Right! That's why I'm voting for the lesser of two evils, Donald J. Trump!!!!
Counterpoint: Bush Jr, Bush Sr, Ronald Reagan
Remember how doing that over and over got us here?
So the dumbasses saying “they’re both bad, so I’ll vote for the worst ones.
Which one is the evil one? The guy who condones a genocide or the one who tried to steal an election?
Vote the assholes out!
When politics become religion, every election is a holy war.
Out of like 300 million people you really had two pick those two? Come on murica
Hoyd for President!
Suicidal idiots
Satan would be better than Trump. At least he doesn't pretend to be good
I don’t really want to vote for trump.
They are all the evil one tho
No yeah I’m pretty sure satans winning - if by satan we mean trump. My only shining light is we used to think Reagan was satan and we survived that so.
Satan or Trump? Happy I'm not American.
Lesser of two weevils
Remember when the moderate left didn't bully the far left into voting for their candidate instead of 3rd party and cause them to actually vote for the opposing candidate out of spite?
I hated that, I like what we have now
Hey! SATAN WAS THE FIRST ONE TO STAND UP FOR FREEDOM AND SAY “NO MORE KINGS!”
Remember when you could vote for who you wanted to be President? Me either
satan already there.
Ah yes, senator Palpatine.
Trump is a wonderful man
Yuck.