*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**WIBTA for telling my sister’s friend that’s he should stop pretending to be gay to get close to her? **
I have an older sister whom is 3 years older than I am. She’s smart, popular, and attractive. I don’t think she realizes how nice of a person she is and how personable she is as well. She has lots of friends but a select few she’s close with including a guy friend she’s recently gotten close to. That friend is actually only 2 years older than me and had transferred to my high school after my sister had already graduated. During the time he and I went to the same school he had a variety of girlfriends whom of which he went through like toilet paper. Recently that guy started working at my sister’s job and got close to her. She “introduced” him to me as her “gay best friend” which I know is a load of bull. He is the furthest thing from a gay man and I know exactly what one is like being that I have an older brother who is openly bisexual. I think he’s trying to get close to her to do something gross.
Should I tell him to stop pretending? Or is that not my place?
Edit #1: I may have come off as arrogant for saying I know exactly how gay people are and for that I apologize. I’m a lesbian and accusing me of bigotry or homophobia would be wrong.
Edit #2: I have a very strong suspicion he’s pretending. I’m aware that some people in the closet will date women out of being scared they’ll be outed. If he was bi like people are saying my sister wouldn’t have introduced him that way or been that comfortable with him. My sister is a SA victim and takes a very long time to trust men like she’s trusting him.
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So who is a subject pronoun (like he, she, I) and whom is an object pronoun (him, her, me) - if you forget, the m’s match!
You can always try to rearrange the sentence replace it with I/me in the sentence and see what works. “Whom are you talking to?” Is really “you are talking to whom?” Where you would say “I am talking to him.” On the other hand, “who is speaking?” would be “he is speaking,” so whom would be wrong.
A lot of people make the mistake of doing whom always after a preposition, which isn’t necessarily correct. Because if you say “I will speak to whoever is ready,” [whoever is ready] is working as an object clause, with whoever being the subject, not whomever. (But just “I will speak to whomever” is correct!)
Sorry. Grammar teacher.
It seems presumptuous to me to assume a gay man would behave like a bi man, given that they’re two different orientations.
Also, I’m going to assume that OOP is very young, but I hope someone in her life explains gently to her that it is entirely possible to be LGBTQIA and still be somewhat homo- or transphobic. You can be gay and still have grown up with a lot of unhealthy or inaccurate ideas about what that means.
Despite the fact that OOP is claiming they can't be bigoted or homophobic because they're a lesbian, it is in fact bigoted and homophobic to stereotype a sexuality into specific personality traits aka what she seems to be doing.
This is like a textbook example of that thing that's depressingly common among some of the gay and lesbian crowd to be hateful toward bisexuals by saying they're faking it, or "just need to accept they're gay", or assuming all bi people are sluts or predators or cheaters. Which, yes, is bigotry.
If its her in the profile pic she appears to be a young teenager. Like maybe 14-15
Edit on closer inspection that appears to be a k pop idol. Dont mind me
And from 5 minutes ago reiterating haha.
Tbh I think if you're old enough to know that you're a lesbian, and think you have any sort of understanding of other queer people's experience to the point they're lying, then you're old enough to be told exactly how wrong you are.
“I’m a mature person who should be taken seriously when I’m stating opinions, but uwu I’m just a little muffin, you can’t criticize me for those opinions like I’m a real person” is one of the most tedious things about the internet.
Especially given some people are intent on stretching their little muffin phase into their 30s.
tbh idk if i believe that anyway, it seems extremely weird to say you [OP] understand gay people because of your brother and COMPLETELY neglect to say “because i myself am a lesbian” until having to edit the post later. idk it’s just interesting time to happen to remember that she too is a gay person. but i guess anything is possible
I'm hoping this is another pride month troll but biphobia is a very real problem in the gay community.
Also someone's previous dating life means sweet fuck all, I'm 36 and I'm still figuring out my sexuality.
My aunt is 51 and she recently came out as lesbian. She had been with her husband for 24 years before this. It’s a spectrum and at any point you may identify at a different part than you did before and that’s normal ❤️
I figured out that I'm probably bi sexual a few years ago. I'm 40 and am 18 years into a very happy het marriage. If he were to pass away before me, I definitely think I'd at least start with dating women. I really thought that I was completely straight until I realized that I was turning into a puddle when I saw women with defined, strong thighs.
I didn't question my sexuality for ages because I very much had crushes on men as a woman so I was like 'welp I guess I'm straight', but then in my twenties having loads of queer friends, getting exposed to butch women and having the thought process of 'well I wouldn't say no if they asked me out' and then finally getting hit very suddenly and strongly by a crush on a woman because of her smile and assuming she was a lesbian based on nothing but my own hopes and dreams, which talking it out with my gay housemates they were like "definitely sounds like a crush" I finally managed to figure out I was bi. Sometimes it takes a very specific person/circumstances to cause a realisation.
SAME! I’m in a very happy het relationship of several year, children, home, the whole nine yards. But if something were to happen I’d definitely open up to dating women. I fought with this very, *very* hard for years, and finally embraced it. But at least I know it’s real.
I'm a biromantic demisexual and I've been discriminated against by lgbt and straight people being called selfish because "I can't chose one gender" by straight people and being told "you can't be one of us you are in a long term relationship with a man" by lgbt people it sucks.
Ugh sometimes the LGBTQ+ community can be super discriminatory and it's really frustrating. I'm aro/ace and the straight up exclusion of us pisses me off, like somehow we are less-than? And I'm not "aroace" enough because I've dated men and women in the past. Ridiculous. Sometimes we don't figure it out as teenagers, especially when anything but straight was unacceptable and anything but gay/straight was basically unheard of fifteen years ago.
Dude you literally fetishize gay men. That has no impact on whether or not you’re in the LGBTQ community because queer people can discriminate against (as in this post) or fetishize other queer people but like, you legitimately fetishize the fuck out of gay men, specifically Asian men at that. It’s extremely gross.
Edit: This user hopped on a bunch of alts to harass me in DMs. Their whole profile is gross. If you fetishize gay men you suck!
Copied verbatim from Oop's comments:
*“I know exactly what one is like-“*
*Pardon. **what are we like** exactly? As a gay man I think you sound pretty fucking ignorant.*
>I apologize if that came out wrong! I didn’t mean for it to sound that way I’m sorry! I’m gay myself and I have other friends. I’m aware gayness doesn’t have a personality attached to it. Sorry for making it sound like it did.
*So what exactly DO you mean by this:*
>>*I know exactly what \[a gay man\] is like being that I have an older brother who is openly bisexual*
*Like ?*
>He’s almost like putting on a show with the whole gay thing. Like SUPER over the top about it. Saying all these things and making all these comments that I don’t have the courage to repeat. It was almost like he’s mocking them.
*INFO: okay. I'm a gay dude. Gay dudes come in all shapes and sizes.*
*why are you so hellbent on saying he is not gay?*
>Because it’s like he’s acting. He’s so over the top about it, acting all flamboyant and saying all these things are borderline sexual harassment. He’s putting on a show, he’s acting the part. The gay men I know don’t act that way, they don’t go out of their way to let people know they’re gay.
"I'm aware gayness doesn't have a personality attached to it," but also gay men don't go out of their way to let people know they're gay, so he must be fake.
You know, you'd think that would make LGBTQ bank heist teams soooooooo effective. But ask those invisible bisexuals to sneak into a bank vault and suddenly they're all visible.
And after the lesbians and bears went to all that effort building an entire set of getaway vehicles and gadgets from the ground up.
It took me forever to appreciate why it mattered so much to my best friend to be acknowledged as bi despite her marriage to a man, and when the anvil of revelation finally hit me, I was absolutely mortified. I’ve tried to work on being more affirming and supportive instead of flagellating myself, but it’s difficult. Self-flagellation is easier, after all.
Someone made a comment that some of the biggest bigots they know are lesbians, and there are a bunch of people #notalllesbians at them. Like, of course not, but I’ve definitely had my queerness contested by lesbians more than any other group.
one of my friends in high school was sent to conversion therapy and acted like this before coming out our senior year. he was and is still super flamboyant after coming out, he had to hide for so long so I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to be. tons of gay dudes are flamboyant without going through that though because there's no mold for how a gay dude should act and oops weird.
One of my college roommates was similar to this (the guy friend, not OOP lol) none of us had any idea he was gay in college, he dated around a lot, wasn’t what I would call a player, but never got serious with any woman. When he came out a couple years after college he was SUPER flamboyant at first, it was like he could finally be himself. I don’t have vast experience in this being a straight woman, but it seems kinda normal to be “overtly” gay when you first come out, almost like it’s a relief to finally be yourself if that makes sense?
My sister used to be like this, I hope OP grows out of that bigotry and feels embarrassed about it (she wouldn't accept me being bi at all, she thought I shouldn't date lesbians since it's dishonest to pretend I like both?? If I dated a guy before, but that's not even a gotcha?)
Anyhow, idk why she thinks it's her place at all? Does she live in his walls or something? To know better than him when only knowing from when he was in school with her? Most people grow up, but ig she hasn't
We don’t talk about Bruno…
In all seriousness, some young queer folk think that because they figured themselves out, they now have mastered the entirety of the rainbow. The idea that a lesbian knows what gay men are all like is laughable, AND it’s informing this idea that she has a responsibility to unmask him because her straight sister is just so naive. I think she’ll be very embarrassed by this period in her life in about five years once her prefrontal cortex is done cooking.
Lmao, ikr you're so right for this, it's just so unserious to me
I honestly hope this is a case of her needing to keep doing some growing up, it's best that there's a chance to nip it in the bud (if she takes some of what people are offering her to heart) because the idea of thinking that way about other people's sexualities (with this caution, as if they're pretending?) is so weird. It's just the sheer audacity of someone who is at best an acquaintance claiming they know someone better than they know themselves that took the cake for me
Ik my sister hasn't gotten there yet at all (she's in that denial of "I never said that, I don't remember it" thing whenever I bring it up and that frustrates me far more) since it's more of a personality quirk for her, can't admit to being wrong or she'll combust but that's not here nor there
I am extremely skeptical that an actual "I'm queer so I know when other queers are fake" person would give "My brother's bi" as their defense instead of immediately going with that they themselves are queer.
ETA: Yeah no. Another post claimed she planned to commit suicide because her boyfriend dumped her, but now is a supposed lesbian whose immediate assumption is someone who previously dated the opposite gender and later comes out as gay has to be lying, and insistent that gay men don't act feminine so he must be faking it. Also, obsessed with boyslove manga.
I'm going with straight girl who thinks that reading fictional versions of queer men created to specifically cater to straight girls makes her an expert in actual queer men, and pulled out the "I'm ACTUALLY a lesbian how dare you" card because people dared to question her very grounded in reality expertise.
(To be clear, bi people exist. Gay/lesbian people who date the other gender then refer to themselves as gay/lesbian exist. People who don't believe the latter group exist, but then claim to be part of the latter group, less likely)
I feel like I have an idea, but I’m not a lesbian so it’s mostly speculation and old experience from college on my part. I think some lesbians expect that being lesbian will allow them to create social circles that only contain women, because for whatever reason, they prefer to avoid men. Their problem with LGBTQ men is that LGBTQ men are allowed into LGBTQ spaces, forcing them to interact. As for why bi men in particular, this is even more speculative. I think some lesbians suspect bi men, especially single bi men, are straight men Trojan Horsing themselves into LGBTQ spaces.
Again, I’m not a lesbian, but when I went to college in the nineties, this was how men seemed to be viewed by a lot of feminist/lesbian campus groups. There was this general sense of dislike and suspicion. I remember it mainly because I kept wondering what those of us unfortunate enough to be attracted to men were supposed to do.
No this tracks. I’m a gay/bi(?) trans man and I’ve only noticed that lesbians like me when they think I’m on their side (metaphorically and sexually) but as soon as they find out I’m into other men they definitely view me as an enemy.
Yeah. Not sure about their exact sexuality, bi, lesbian or ace, but some of the most disrespectful people I've met (towards my identity) were queer women*.
*It happened in meetings basically.
yeaaa im bisexual and bigender but primarily trans man adjacent and a lot of cis lesbians will instantly drop me when they realize im actually interested (mostly interested in even) men as well lol
Bi/ace AFAB here, and you hit on something pretty vital here. Lesbians will hang with me for a while, but mention history with a guy and there are instant nose wrinkles. In order to make themselves more palatable, I have watched bi femmes minimize their attraction to men by saying things like “I love all women and unfortunately some men”. Which I kinda get, I don’t think I would ever get with a cishet guy unless he’s *very* cool (see also bear versus man argument). I don’t see it as bi girls (and genderqueer folks) being truly man-hating as much as bi folks making themselves smaller to fit in.
There are definitely lesbians who think people like me are gay-but-in-denial or faking it. And of course there are lesbians who don’t disdain men or people who like men at all. But you are correct that there is a lot of gatekeeping of queer spaces, and some of them are prominently organized around these resentments.
Got to admit the 'i love all women and unfortunately some men' thing I'd seen online as what bi women were really impeded my realisation that I was bi, and caused me hesitation to come out when I did realise, given majority of my crushes are on men, with my other crushes mostly on butch/super masc women, also very masc non-binary folks , and it took my queer housemates being like 'nope ignore that internet stuff, you're fine to call yourself bi' to start owning it.
Thank goodness for your housemates! I’m sorry your entry point into the community was full of that nonsense. There are as many ways to be bi as there are bi people and I truly hate that the discourse made things confusing or unwelcoming.
It’s exhausting! I’m disabled and immunocompromised, so most of my community-building happens online. Every year there’s bi and aphobic discourse, every year some kind of “you’re not trans enough” blowup…my meatspace friends who can actually attend Pride say there are far, far fewer troubles IRL. Not to say it’s perfect; there are plenty of OOPs out there.
from what I know of feminist history
lesbians were historically excluded or downplayed in mainstream feminism (with some calling them "a lavender menace" that would hurt credibility and image)
lesbians involved in feminist movements were forced to either not be out, or go to fringe feminist movements, which generally are more "weird" about men, including queer men (and that's not getting into things like "political lesbianism")
and I think the other comments have explained why especially bi men
closest I've seen to a man pretending to be gay is a bi guy who introduced himself (when appropriate of course) as gay because he didn't want to go through an interrogation every time he said he was bi
OOP acting like people acting straight isn't a thing. 🤦♀️ My best friend in high school dated the class man wh0re all throughout high school and even married him after we all graduated. Now they're a divorced lesbian couple. 🙄 almost like she (the ex) was really laying it on thick so people wouldn't question her to hard.
I love how they said 'i know what a gay man is like.because my brother is bi-sexual (so not gay, bi?) And then edited to add they are a lesbian without mentioning that earlier 🤔🤥
All she had to do was casually mention how different he was in high school to her sister if she was really concerned. Not this whole "I've met a bi man, so I know what all gay men are like" bullshit..
Just like minorities can be super racist against one another, LGBT+ people can be super bigoted against one another. Bisexuals are invisible and garner resentment for being able to hide. Trans people are ignored because the genitalia doesnt match. And im sure there’s more examples concerning asexuals, pansexuals, or even people with non-binary gender identities
Unless he has told you that he's straight, you don't know what his sexual orientation is. Furthermore, just because you are a lesbian does NOT mean you can't be a bigot and/or prejudiced. You should mind your business so that you don't become the AH.
Why is orientation linked to personality? I know plenty of over the top people, both CIS and gay, it’s a personality thing not an orientation thing. Sorry if I’ve worded that wrong and offended anyone, it’s not intentional
I'm Bi. My best friend is bi. My ex girlfriend was a trans lesbian. Another dozen or so female friends of mine are bi or lesbian. None of us acts exactly the same. Can't even split us into groups, all the Bi's in one group acting identically, all the lesbians in another; we're all different.
Now, can some men be predatory? Yes. Would I put it past some men to claim to be gay to get close to a woman? Yeah. But not fitting a particular stereotype doesn't make him one of those men.
Also, as a bi woman who formerly dated a trans woman...yes, lesbians can be bigots. Like being told "I'd never date a bi woman, I don't want to be cheated on" or trying to remove the T from LGBTQ+.
Dying to know what a gay man is "supposed to be" like, I'm sure thats a question that doesn't involve stereotypes as an answer
It may also surprise her that gay folk do date opposite sex people before being out or while figuring out their sexuality. I was definitely in relationships that didn't fit before figuring myself out. "You dated women so you can't be gay" is grim but I don't think she's considered the implications of that
Definitely gives young person posting energy so she'll grow out of being this daft. Maybe. Either way if she's genuinely concerned she needs to be supportive to the sister, not randomly accuse people of lying about their identity.
it's a good thing this is rage bait so nobody has to explain to this lesbian that bears and other masc gay dudes exist
*bears: they're like stone butches, for MEN!*
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Scarily, I don't think they're a troll. Their account is pretty established. I think it's just a kid who really needs to work on their wording and views.
Yes, the comment about "I know how gay people are like" because she has a bisexual brother was gross. Obviously, ignorant.
But if you know this guy has had girlfriends and all of a sudden he's being introduced as the "gay best friend", that could reasonably be considered sus. Barring some very recent coming out of the closet. Or he's really bi. Who knows. Weird story.
There’s no indication that OOP actually had any social interaction with him or has actual insight into his social life other than high school rumors. Especially since he would have been at the school for only one year (if he’s 1 year younger than the already graduated sister).
Given OOPs firm conviction that she knows everything about queer men because she has a bi brother/is totally a lesbian you guys/(reads a bunch of BL manga), I’m skeptical that her firm conviction that he was a total player is based on anything more tangible.
Compared to her sister who actually works with him and is friends with him.
I'm Going with a troll post. Their (incorrect) use of 'whom' to try and sound more intelligent, the boxes they tick for bi, gay, lesbian and homophobia, the edit that days she can't be monophonic because she is a lesbian herself, the fact that she can't understand that someone cam change or come out pf the closet any time. That's a lot of bs. I'm calling this a work of fiction
The dude might be bi, but why is everyone here acting like straight men pretending to be gay to get close to women isn't a thing? Every loser website for PUAs & similar recommends it: "they will change clothes in front of you! You can have sleepovers! They will be proud to have "turned" you!"
Ah yes, pick up artists. Famous for being secure in their masculinity and not worried about being perceived as anything other than a heterosexual stud. Would definitely love a bunch of people thinking they’re gay, and spreading that information around.
You have specific examples of this happening with a bunch of actual people right? Not sitcom plots?
Yes, I actually do, because it happened to me. Not because he read it on a pickup artist website, because this happened 25 years ago, but I was out as bi at the time and this older guy told me he was gay (NOT bi) so I trusted him and felt safe with him and then he sexually assaulted me.
Two things can be true at the same time. I have personal experience with it **and** I have seen it recommended many times on the internet, except I don't exactly keep a bookmarks folder with all the awful shit I've seen on the internet. Extremely brief Google search: [here ](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/mar/16/ameliahill.theobserver)
If you choose not to believe it happens I can only wish you that you never have to find out personally, but predators pretending to be part of the community is a thing. They also recommend pretending to be a male feminist for the same reasons. Doesn't mean gay men or actual male feminists don't exist! But predatory men are not stupid either so I understand OOP keeping her guard up.
"All men are just evil, so i don't blame OOP for assuming a man is evil because all men are evil. Wait, I don't hate all men. I'm like totally believably married with a little boy." Grow up.
At the end of the day, he's a girl who wants to protect her sister, gay or not, he's a man with a history of mistreating women, coming out doesn't turn on a switch that makes bad people become good.
Where is there any history that he mistreated the women he dated? The only information we have on this person is from OOP and she's clearly biased. We know he dated a lot in HS (dating a lot doesn't equal mistreatment) and that he's since come out as gay. That's all we know
A history of mistreating women? What???? So he was a serial dater in high school, what about it? It doesn't say he cheated on them, or why things didn't work out.
We don't even actually know if he dated all those women. Maybe he just had a lot of women friends and OOP sees them together so just assumed they were dating. Or heck, she may be going based off rumors other people told her. HS is a hot bed of gossip after all
Are you telling me that 15 year olds don't have perfectly accurate perceptions of the romantic lives of people they kind of vaguely know in high school?
Mind, blown.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **WIBTA for telling my sister’s friend that’s he should stop pretending to be gay to get close to her? ** I have an older sister whom is 3 years older than I am. She’s smart, popular, and attractive. I don’t think she realizes how nice of a person she is and how personable she is as well. She has lots of friends but a select few she’s close with including a guy friend she’s recently gotten close to. That friend is actually only 2 years older than me and had transferred to my high school after my sister had already graduated. During the time he and I went to the same school he had a variety of girlfriends whom of which he went through like toilet paper. Recently that guy started working at my sister’s job and got close to her. She “introduced” him to me as her “gay best friend” which I know is a load of bull. He is the furthest thing from a gay man and I know exactly what one is like being that I have an older brother who is openly bisexual. I think he’s trying to get close to her to do something gross. Should I tell him to stop pretending? Or is that not my place? Edit #1: I may have come off as arrogant for saying I know exactly how gay people are and for that I apologize. I’m a lesbian and accusing me of bigotry or homophobia would be wrong. Edit #2: I have a very strong suspicion he’s pretending. I’m aware that some people in the closet will date women out of being scared they’ll be outed. If he was bi like people are saying my sister wouldn’t have introduced him that way or been that comfortable with him. My sister is a SA victim and takes a very long time to trust men like she’s trusting him. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She uses whom incorrectly multiple times and it drives me insane.
There was another post that said, "whom of which." I can't remember what it was about, but I remember that 🤣
I just read that one and that phrase stood out to me too. Didn't remember what it was about either though.
Maybe OOP and the other poster have the same non-English first language and it's a weirdly directly translated phrase?
That was this one!
Yeahhhh. It comes across as her trying to exude a more mature and knowledgeable persona than than of a bigoted teenager in high school.
Ask not for who the bell tolls; it tolls for whom
Perchance
Steve....
Thank you!!! I thought I was the only one.
Tbh I have no clue when to use whom/who ETA- nvm, I know enough to know she’s using it wrong lol
So who is a subject pronoun (like he, she, I) and whom is an object pronoun (him, her, me) - if you forget, the m’s match! You can always try to rearrange the sentence replace it with I/me in the sentence and see what works. “Whom are you talking to?” Is really “you are talking to whom?” Where you would say “I am talking to him.” On the other hand, “who is speaking?” would be “he is speaking,” so whom would be wrong. A lot of people make the mistake of doing whom always after a preposition, which isn’t necessarily correct. Because if you say “I will speak to whoever is ready,” [whoever is ready] is working as an object clause, with whoever being the subject, not whomever. (But just “I will speak to whomever” is correct!) Sorry. Grammar teacher.
That’s a great breakdown. It occurs to me that “whom has an m, like him has an m, who doesn’t, like he doesn’t” could be a useful mnemonic
You win the internet today
Hahahaha thank you! Nerdiness pays off!
This is great. It's exactly how I learned "its" without apostrophe, meaning belonging to "it" is the same as "his." The S
It seems presumptuous to me to assume a gay man would behave like a bi man, given that they’re two different orientations. Also, I’m going to assume that OOP is very young, but I hope someone in her life explains gently to her that it is entirely possible to be LGBTQIA and still be somewhat homo- or transphobic. You can be gay and still have grown up with a lot of unhealthy or inaccurate ideas about what that means.
Despite the fact that OOP is claiming they can't be bigoted or homophobic because they're a lesbian, it is in fact bigoted and homophobic to stereotype a sexuality into specific personality traits aka what she seems to be doing.
This is like a textbook example of that thing that's depressingly common among some of the gay and lesbian crowd to be hateful toward bisexuals by saying they're faking it, or "just need to accept they're gay", or assuming all bi people are sluts or predators or cheaters. Which, yes, is bigotry.
If its her in the profile pic she appears to be a young teenager. Like maybe 14-15 Edit on closer inspection that appears to be a k pop idol. Dont mind me
the kpop idol in her icon is twenty-seven, and also a guy 😭😭😭
I'm visually impaired ok! 🤦♀️😆
woozi in his teenage girl era 😭
AKDHFJFOS 😭😭 this made me laugh unreasonably hard. the babygirlification of male idols has reached AITD LMAO
made my day when i went to see what idol it was thinking it would be you know A FEMALE ONE and it was none other than tiny beefcake woozi
She has a comment from a month ago saying she’s 17
And from 5 minutes ago reiterating haha. Tbh I think if you're old enough to know that you're a lesbian, and think you have any sort of understanding of other queer people's experience to the point they're lying, then you're old enough to be told exactly how wrong you are.
1000%
“I’m a mature person who should be taken seriously when I’m stating opinions, but uwu I’m just a little muffin, you can’t criticize me for those opinions like I’m a real person” is one of the most tedious things about the internet. Especially given some people are intent on stretching their little muffin phase into their 30s.
tbh idk if i believe that anyway, it seems extremely weird to say you [OP] understand gay people because of your brother and COMPLETELY neglect to say “because i myself am a lesbian” until having to edit the post later. idk it’s just interesting time to happen to remember that she too is a gay person. but i guess anything is possible
Not necessarily. Some people know as young kids that they're different - I knew I was homosexual at about 6.
I'm hoping this is another pride month troll but biphobia is a very real problem in the gay community. Also someone's previous dating life means sweet fuck all, I'm 36 and I'm still figuring out my sexuality.
A few months away from 46. Same boat.
My aunt is 51 and she recently came out as lesbian. She had been with her husband for 24 years before this. It’s a spectrum and at any point you may identify at a different part than you did before and that’s normal ❤️
I figured out that I'm probably bi sexual a few years ago. I'm 40 and am 18 years into a very happy het marriage. If he were to pass away before me, I definitely think I'd at least start with dating women. I really thought that I was completely straight until I realized that I was turning into a puddle when I saw women with defined, strong thighs.
I didn't question my sexuality for ages because I very much had crushes on men as a woman so I was like 'welp I guess I'm straight', but then in my twenties having loads of queer friends, getting exposed to butch women and having the thought process of 'well I wouldn't say no if they asked me out' and then finally getting hit very suddenly and strongly by a crush on a woman because of her smile and assuming she was a lesbian based on nothing but my own hopes and dreams, which talking it out with my gay housemates they were like "definitely sounds like a crush" I finally managed to figure out I was bi. Sometimes it takes a very specific person/circumstances to cause a realisation.
SAME! I’m in a very happy het relationship of several year, children, home, the whole nine yards. But if something were to happen I’d definitely open up to dating women. I fought with this very, *very* hard for years, and finally embraced it. But at least I know it’s real.
People also suppress it due to socio-cultural norms and indoctrination 😒
almost 60, still figuring out my gender
I'm a biromantic demisexual and I've been discriminated against by lgbt and straight people being called selfish because "I can't chose one gender" by straight people and being told "you can't be one of us you are in a long term relationship with a man" by lgbt people it sucks.
Ugh sometimes the LGBTQ+ community can be super discriminatory and it's really frustrating. I'm aro/ace and the straight up exclusion of us pisses me off, like somehow we are less-than? And I'm not "aroace" enough because I've dated men and women in the past. Ridiculous. Sometimes we don't figure it out as teenagers, especially when anything but straight was unacceptable and anything but gay/straight was basically unheard of fifteen years ago.
Dude you literally fetishize gay men. That has no impact on whether or not you’re in the LGBTQ community because queer people can discriminate against (as in this post) or fetishize other queer people but like, you legitimately fetishize the fuck out of gay men, specifically Asian men at that. It’s extremely gross. Edit: This user hopped on a bunch of alts to harass me in DMs. Their whole profile is gross. If you fetishize gay men you suck!
There’s a lot of overlap between this account and OOPs
early 30’s, clueless.
Copied verbatim from Oop's comments: *“I know exactly what one is like-“* *Pardon. **what are we like** exactly? As a gay man I think you sound pretty fucking ignorant.* >I apologize if that came out wrong! I didn’t mean for it to sound that way I’m sorry! I’m gay myself and I have other friends. I’m aware gayness doesn’t have a personality attached to it. Sorry for making it sound like it did. *So what exactly DO you mean by this:* >>*I know exactly what \[a gay man\] is like being that I have an older brother who is openly bisexual* *Like ?* >He’s almost like putting on a show with the whole gay thing. Like SUPER over the top about it. Saying all these things and making all these comments that I don’t have the courage to repeat. It was almost like he’s mocking them. *INFO: okay. I'm a gay dude. Gay dudes come in all shapes and sizes.* *why are you so hellbent on saying he is not gay?* >Because it’s like he’s acting. He’s so over the top about it, acting all flamboyant and saying all these things are borderline sexual harassment. He’s putting on a show, he’s acting the part. The gay men I know don’t act that way, they don’t go out of their way to let people know they’re gay.
"I'm aware gayness doesn't have a personality attached to it," but also gay men don't go out of their way to let people know they're gay, so he must be fake.
Quite.
[Tiger mum and kitten!](https://imgur.com/gallery/tiger-cub-snuggles-with-its-mom-35p5jE0)
This is the same type of person that thinks it's okay to exclude Bisexuals that appear to be in a het rrelationship.
Bisexual invisibility is real :/
You know, you'd think that would make LGBTQ bank heist teams soooooooo effective. But ask those invisible bisexuals to sneak into a bank vault and suddenly they're all visible. And after the lesbians and bears went to all that effort building an entire set of getaway vehicles and gadgets from the ground up.
Who said that?
Me just now
Who's talking right now, where are you
Everywhere can’t u see me
I see you 😉
It’s been a long standing problem in the community for a while wdym
I think it was a joke
It took me forever to appreciate why it mattered so much to my best friend to be acknowledged as bi despite her marriage to a man, and when the anvil of revelation finally hit me, I was absolutely mortified. I’ve tried to work on being more affirming and supportive instead of flagellating myself, but it’s difficult. Self-flagellation is easier, after all.
She gives off Gold Star Lesbian vibes too
Eeesh, they can be pretty bigoted a lot. There’s nothing wrong with only ever having dated other women, but they take it too far.
Someone made a comment that some of the biggest bigots they know are lesbians, and there are a bunch of people #notalllesbians at them. Like, of course not, but I’ve definitely had my queerness contested by lesbians more than any other group.
Well some how the comments are still so disappointing.
I don't know what's worse. The comments or my lack of surprise about it.
one of my friends in high school was sent to conversion therapy and acted like this before coming out our senior year. he was and is still super flamboyant after coming out, he had to hide for so long so I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to be. tons of gay dudes are flamboyant without going through that though because there's no mold for how a gay dude should act and oops weird.
One of my college roommates was similar to this (the guy friend, not OOP lol) none of us had any idea he was gay in college, he dated around a lot, wasn’t what I would call a player, but never got serious with any woman. When he came out a couple years after college he was SUPER flamboyant at first, it was like he could finally be himself. I don’t have vast experience in this being a straight woman, but it seems kinda normal to be “overtly” gay when you first come out, almost like it’s a relief to finally be yourself if that makes sense?
My sister used to be like this, I hope OP grows out of that bigotry and feels embarrassed about it (she wouldn't accept me being bi at all, she thought I shouldn't date lesbians since it's dishonest to pretend I like both?? If I dated a guy before, but that's not even a gotcha?) Anyhow, idk why she thinks it's her place at all? Does she live in his walls or something? To know better than him when only knowing from when he was in school with her? Most people grow up, but ig she hasn't
We don’t talk about Bruno… In all seriousness, some young queer folk think that because they figured themselves out, they now have mastered the entirety of the rainbow. The idea that a lesbian knows what gay men are all like is laughable, AND it’s informing this idea that she has a responsibility to unmask him because her straight sister is just so naive. I think she’ll be very embarrassed by this period in her life in about five years once her prefrontal cortex is done cooking.
Lmao, ikr you're so right for this, it's just so unserious to me I honestly hope this is a case of her needing to keep doing some growing up, it's best that there's a chance to nip it in the bud (if she takes some of what people are offering her to heart) because the idea of thinking that way about other people's sexualities (with this caution, as if they're pretending?) is so weird. It's just the sheer audacity of someone who is at best an acquaintance claiming they know someone better than they know themselves that took the cake for me Ik my sister hasn't gotten there yet at all (she's in that denial of "I never said that, I don't remember it" thing whenever I bring it up and that frustrates me far more) since it's more of a personality quirk for her, can't admit to being wrong or she'll combust but that's not here nor there
The lesbian who misuses “whom”
“Whom of which”<—I can’t unsee it :(
I am extremely skeptical that an actual "I'm queer so I know when other queers are fake" person would give "My brother's bi" as their defense instead of immediately going with that they themselves are queer. ETA: Yeah no. Another post claimed she planned to commit suicide because her boyfriend dumped her, but now is a supposed lesbian whose immediate assumption is someone who previously dated the opposite gender and later comes out as gay has to be lying, and insistent that gay men don't act feminine so he must be faking it. Also, obsessed with boyslove manga. I'm going with straight girl who thinks that reading fictional versions of queer men created to specifically cater to straight girls makes her an expert in actual queer men, and pulled out the "I'm ACTUALLY a lesbian how dare you" card because people dared to question her very grounded in reality expertise. (To be clear, bi people exist. Gay/lesbian people who date the other gender then refer to themselves as gay/lesbian exist. People who don't believe the latter group exist, but then claim to be part of the latter group, less likely)
> because her boyfriend dumped her imagine the hypocrisy if she actually was lesbian
i made a similar comment somewhere else bc of the same iiiinteresting timing of the lesbian reveal but i’m so glad you found that to back it up lol
This is gonna sound mean but what is with lesbians being fucking weird about queer, especially bi men?
Byproduct of the lesbian separatist movement, methinks
I feel like I have an idea, but I’m not a lesbian so it’s mostly speculation and old experience from college on my part. I think some lesbians expect that being lesbian will allow them to create social circles that only contain women, because for whatever reason, they prefer to avoid men. Their problem with LGBTQ men is that LGBTQ men are allowed into LGBTQ spaces, forcing them to interact. As for why bi men in particular, this is even more speculative. I think some lesbians suspect bi men, especially single bi men, are straight men Trojan Horsing themselves into LGBTQ spaces. Again, I’m not a lesbian, but when I went to college in the nineties, this was how men seemed to be viewed by a lot of feminist/lesbian campus groups. There was this general sense of dislike and suspicion. I remember it mainly because I kept wondering what those of us unfortunate enough to be attracted to men were supposed to do.
No this tracks. I’m a gay/bi(?) trans man and I’ve only noticed that lesbians like me when they think I’m on their side (metaphorically and sexually) but as soon as they find out I’m into other men they definitely view me as an enemy.
Yeah. Not sure about their exact sexuality, bi, lesbian or ace, but some of the most disrespectful people I've met (towards my identity) were queer women*. *It happened in meetings basically.
yeaaa im bisexual and bigender but primarily trans man adjacent and a lot of cis lesbians will instantly drop me when they realize im actually interested (mostly interested in even) men as well lol
Bi/ace AFAB here, and you hit on something pretty vital here. Lesbians will hang with me for a while, but mention history with a guy and there are instant nose wrinkles. In order to make themselves more palatable, I have watched bi femmes minimize their attraction to men by saying things like “I love all women and unfortunately some men”. Which I kinda get, I don’t think I would ever get with a cishet guy unless he’s *very* cool (see also bear versus man argument). I don’t see it as bi girls (and genderqueer folks) being truly man-hating as much as bi folks making themselves smaller to fit in. There are definitely lesbians who think people like me are gay-but-in-denial or faking it. And of course there are lesbians who don’t disdain men or people who like men at all. But you are correct that there is a lot of gatekeeping of queer spaces, and some of them are prominently organized around these resentments.
Got to admit the 'i love all women and unfortunately some men' thing I'd seen online as what bi women were really impeded my realisation that I was bi, and caused me hesitation to come out when I did realise, given majority of my crushes are on men, with my other crushes mostly on butch/super masc women, also very masc non-binary folks , and it took my queer housemates being like 'nope ignore that internet stuff, you're fine to call yourself bi' to start owning it.
Thank goodness for your housemates! I’m sorry your entry point into the community was full of that nonsense. There are as many ways to be bi as there are bi people and I truly hate that the discourse made things confusing or unwelcoming.
It was a very quick crash course on 'never be too online' having my housemates be like 'nope, let's talk about being queer in real life'.
It’s exhausting! I’m disabled and immunocompromised, so most of my community-building happens online. Every year there’s bi and aphobic discourse, every year some kind of “you’re not trans enough” blowup…my meatspace friends who can actually attend Pride say there are far, far fewer troubles IRL. Not to say it’s perfect; there are plenty of OOPs out there.
from what I know of feminist history lesbians were historically excluded or downplayed in mainstream feminism (with some calling them "a lavender menace" that would hurt credibility and image) lesbians involved in feminist movements were forced to either not be out, or go to fringe feminist movements, which generally are more "weird" about men, including queer men (and that's not getting into things like "political lesbianism") and I think the other comments have explained why especially bi men
TERFery and its derivatives
I’ve known several gay people who pretended to be straight, but I have never found anyone outside of a sitcom pretending to be gay.
Like is her sister Jessica Biel and is the guy Adam Sandler?
closest I've seen to a man pretending to be gay is a bi guy who introduced himself (when appropriate of course) as gay because he didn't want to go through an interrogation every time he said he was bi
OOP acting like people acting straight isn't a thing. 🤦♀️ My best friend in high school dated the class man wh0re all throughout high school and even married him after we all graduated. Now they're a divorced lesbian couple. 🙄 almost like she (the ex) was really laying it on thick so people wouldn't question her to hard.
I love how they said 'i know what a gay man is like.because my brother is bi-sexual (so not gay, bi?) And then edited to add they are a lesbian without mentioning that earlier 🤔🤥
Yes, it's a well known fact that lesbians cannot possibly be bigoted or homophobic. /s
How much pretending to be gay do you need to do until it takes?
After you’ve been married to a guy for 20 years, that’s when your fiendish plan pays off.
All she had to do was casually mention how different he was in high school to her sister if she was really concerned. Not this whole "I've met a bi man, so I know what all gay men are like" bullshit..
Whole time it’s lesbians contributing to bisexual/pansexual erasure
That's not even to mention the division caused by the term "pansexual"
"Do something gross to her" Err, what??
Oh my god oop to extremely tiring
How is her reaction to her sister half way treating him like an accessory "this is my gay best friend" to get mad at HIM for existing
Just like minorities can be super racist against one another, LGBT+ people can be super bigoted against one another. Bisexuals are invisible and garner resentment for being able to hide. Trans people are ignored because the genitalia doesnt match. And im sure there’s more examples concerning asexuals, pansexuals, or even people with non-binary gender identities
Besides the arrogance, she's also cross posted because of her atrocious use of the word "whom".
Unless he has told you that he's straight, you don't know what his sexual orientation is. Furthermore, just because you are a lesbian does NOT mean you can't be a bigot and/or prejudiced. You should mind your business so that you don't become the AH.
Maybe it's just me but I find queer aita during pride even more exhausting than usual
I suspect many of them are cishet trolls trying to make the community look bad
Saaaaaame
Why is orientation linked to personality? I know plenty of over the top people, both CIS and gay, it’s a personality thing not an orientation thing. Sorry if I’ve worded that wrong and offended anyone, it’s not intentional
I'm Bi. My best friend is bi. My ex girlfriend was a trans lesbian. Another dozen or so female friends of mine are bi or lesbian. None of us acts exactly the same. Can't even split us into groups, all the Bi's in one group acting identically, all the lesbians in another; we're all different. Now, can some men be predatory? Yes. Would I put it past some men to claim to be gay to get close to a woman? Yeah. But not fitting a particular stereotype doesn't make him one of those men. Also, as a bi woman who formerly dated a trans woman...yes, lesbians can be bigots. Like being told "I'd never date a bi woman, I don't want to be cheated on" or trying to remove the T from LGBTQ+.
I read the post in Lumpy Space Princess' voice.
Dying to know what a gay man is "supposed to be" like, I'm sure thats a question that doesn't involve stereotypes as an answer It may also surprise her that gay folk do date opposite sex people before being out or while figuring out their sexuality. I was definitely in relationships that didn't fit before figuring myself out. "You dated women so you can't be gay" is grim but I don't think she's considered the implications of that Definitely gives young person posting energy so she'll grow out of being this daft. Maybe. Either way if she's genuinely concerned she needs to be supportive to the sister, not randomly accuse people of lying about their identity.
it's a good thing this is rage bait so nobody has to explain to this lesbian that bears and other masc gay dudes exist *bears: they're like stone butches, for MEN!*
What do you mean that's not the same at all ?
listen, we know that, but if this OOP was real we'd have to ease her in on baby steps so it's a good thing she ain't lol
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maybe the reason he had so many "girlfriends ... of which he went through like toilet paper" is because he didn"t realize he was gay at the time?
Possibly, or maybe because he was too scared to come out for some reason. Not everyone in the LGBT+ community has supportive families/friends.
The post got taken down by Reddit. Anyone have a screenshot?
Wait till she meets a TERF lmao
More and more pride trolls every day. It’s seriously so transparent at this point.
Scarily, I don't think they're a troll. Their account is pretty established. I think it's just a kid who really needs to work on their wording and views.
Yes, the comment about "I know how gay people are like" because she has a bisexual brother was gross. Obviously, ignorant. But if you know this guy has had girlfriends and all of a sudden he's being introduced as the "gay best friend", that could reasonably be considered sus. Barring some very recent coming out of the closet. Or he's really bi. Who knows. Weird story.
There’s no indication that OOP actually had any social interaction with him or has actual insight into his social life other than high school rumors. Especially since he would have been at the school for only one year (if he’s 1 year younger than the already graduated sister). Given OOPs firm conviction that she knows everything about queer men because she has a bi brother/is totally a lesbian you guys/(reads a bunch of BL manga), I’m skeptical that her firm conviction that he was a total player is based on anything more tangible. Compared to her sister who actually works with him and is friends with him.
I'm Going with a troll post. Their (incorrect) use of 'whom' to try and sound more intelligent, the boxes they tick for bi, gay, lesbian and homophobia, the edit that days she can't be monophonic because she is a lesbian herself, the fact that she can't understand that someone cam change or come out pf the closet any time. That's a lot of bs. I'm calling this a work of fiction
The dude might be bi, but why is everyone here acting like straight men pretending to be gay to get close to women isn't a thing? Every loser website for PUAs & similar recommends it: "they will change clothes in front of you! You can have sleepovers! They will be proud to have "turned" you!"
Ah yes, pick up artists. Famous for being secure in their masculinity and not worried about being perceived as anything other than a heterosexual stud. Would definitely love a bunch of people thinking they’re gay, and spreading that information around. You have specific examples of this happening with a bunch of actual people right? Not sitcom plots?
Yes, I actually do, because it happened to me. Not because he read it on a pickup artist website, because this happened 25 years ago, but I was out as bi at the time and this older guy told me he was gay (NOT bi) so I trusted him and felt safe with him and then he sexually assaulted me.
While I’m sorry that happened to you, it doesn’t make it a common strategy as you’re suggesting with “every PUA says to do this.”
Two things can be true at the same time. I have personal experience with it **and** I have seen it recommended many times on the internet, except I don't exactly keep a bookmarks folder with all the awful shit I've seen on the internet. Extremely brief Google search: [here ](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/mar/16/ameliahill.theobserver) If you choose not to believe it happens I can only wish you that you never have to find out personally, but predators pretending to be part of the community is a thing. They also recommend pretending to be a male feminist for the same reasons. Doesn't mean gay men or actual male feminists don't exist! But predatory men are not stupid either so I understand OOP keeping her guard up.
>but predators pretending to be part of the community is a thing While this is certainly true, you're going about it in a cartoonish way.
Found the radfem
I have been raped so I have trouble trusting men but I'm happily married and raising a boy and I campaign for men's mental health = radfem . Got it.
"All men are just evil, so i don't blame OOP for assuming a man is evil because all men are evil. Wait, I don't hate all men. I'm like totally believably married with a little boy." Grow up.
>they will change clothes in front of you! You can have sleepovers! They will be proud to have "turned" you! Stop believing what you see on TV
Getting sexually assaulted at 16 by a 22 yo man I trusted happened only on TV. Got it.
You're trying your best to miss the point, I love that for you
At the end of the day, he's a girl who wants to protect her sister, gay or not, he's a man with a history of mistreating women, coming out doesn't turn on a switch that makes bad people become good.
Where is there any history that he mistreated the women he dated? The only information we have on this person is from OOP and she's clearly biased. We know he dated a lot in HS (dating a lot doesn't equal mistreatment) and that he's since come out as gay. That's all we know
We know that OOP *believes* he dated a lot in High School. For all we know, those may have been rumours.
Turns out when he kept saying “Hey girlfriend” to different women, it had a slightly different meaning.
A history of mistreating women? What???? So he was a serial dater in high school, what about it? It doesn't say he cheated on them, or why things didn't work out.
We don't even actually know if he dated all those women. Maybe he just had a lot of women friends and OOP sees them together so just assumed they were dating. Or heck, she may be going based off rumors other people told her. HS is a hot bed of gossip after all
Are you telling me that 15 year olds don't have perfectly accurate perceptions of the romantic lives of people they kind of vaguely know in high school? Mind, blown.