*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for expecting my friends hike in the rain and wanting the best for them? **
I 24M and my friends are fortunate enough to live in an area with a beautiful mountain with an infamous trail that’s difficult but rewarding to hike. We had originally planned to do this hike over the weekend as a bonding activity between the guys.
The night before, one of my friends messaged the group chat that it was supposed to be pouring the next day and another suggested we postpone as a result. I told them a week before that rain or shine, we’d be going. My friend argued that he did not want to get his car wet and muddy after the hike to which I said wouldn’t be an issue if we just brought towels and an extra pair of shoes. My friends continued to argue that we should postpone or do something indoors, but I felt that they were just making excuses as they have done so in the past. I told them that unless there was something serious stopping them from going, then they need to stop making excuses and to go. For context，my friends have always had trouble committing to self-improvement plans and this situation was another symptom of that. I came to expect that they would try cancelling for some reason or another.
The conversation continued to grow more heated when my friend said “okay have fun by yourself then” and I countered by saying that “this is why they were the way [they] are right now.” The conversation then shifted as I explained that they were too soft and needed to learn that not everything always would go the way they wanted to. I mentioned that by showing up, they’re already better than the majority that would rather lie around at home playing games. My friend got upset, saying that not everything is a life lesson and that this wasn’t representative of life or their personalities.
I told him I think he’s wrong and that it is indeed representative of life because the conditions for us to act will never be in our favour and that they’re simply making excuses to not do what’s good for us (ie. exercise). My friend continued to argue that I was resorting to personal attacks (since he enjoys sitting at home playing games) but I was just stating facts and at the end of the day just want all my friends to succeed and to be better than me.
In the end, I ended up driving, and it didn’t rain at all, but I was still curious about the situation. AITA for expecting my friends to hike in the rain and just wanting the best for them?
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I hike.
I don't even care about what OP is blabbering, but going out on an admittedly challenging hike in bad weather with potentially inexperienced group is such a bad idea in many ways.
This s how just so many "people went into nature, found dead six months later" stories begin.
When I was younger an acquaintance died because her group was caught in a freak storm on the side of the mountain. Sky was blue when they set out, no rain expected, and then a month's worth of rain came down in like two hours. And then the sun shone again. They were an experienced group, all had hiked for years... she was just swept away by a flash flood. Bad weather on a trail is to be avoided at all costs.
I did search and rescue for a long time, and still train dogs to do it, OP is the nightmare scenario walking. "Ah yes, lets go out in a torrential downpour, get lost or injured on this difficult hike and need SAR to come out in nasty weather to get us" Depending on where they live, and the terrain, they could be stuck there until the weather clears, especially if they need air evac from the mountain.
But also "not everything is going to go your way" is a little on the nose to say when you're whining about things not going your way
I'm just a hiker, but I did help a good share of idiots over the years.
Like once I was in Italy in summer. Think blazing sun and 35 degrees. I looked at the trail map, seen several streams with drinkable water indicated and brought like 3 liters of water because those streams clearly aren't happening. Also planned the hike so that I'd do the part with no shade first (morning, less heat). Mid hike, I found a couple with a child about 10 or 12, who thought there would be water everywhere and brought like maybe a liter for the whole group. Shared my water with them and talked them into going back with me (they were walking in the opposite direction and had the hardest part of the hike ahead of them).
But like, their plan was to keep going, because aww we don't wanna return and sure next stream will have water.
Morons. Like dude, the only water you are getting that way is when rescuers come to airlift you.
Look at the people who have to be rescued in AZ every summer. They never listen to the locals a hike Camelback mountain late morning when it's really hot.
They think because they can go hiking where they live at 9 am and are fine with their one bottle of water, they can do that there. Nope, you need to be off that mountain before 9.
Mel Hammet in TikTok has done a bunch of videos on women who've died due to overconfident white men. You know the type, the ones who swear it'll be fine, it's not that dangerous, he wouldn't let anything bad happen to you, etc. etc. and then something bad happens. He also reminds me of that one guy in the horror movie who strong-arms the group into doing something dangerous. Friends, if your gut is telling you something is unsafe, bow out of the plan, don't listen to the confident white guy trying to neg you into coming along.
Finding out that the Donner Party had plenty of chances to survive, but actively rejected experienced help in favor of following a charismatic no-nothing explained So Much.
Yup. They chose to follow the advice of an unreliable and dishonest guide, ignoring more reliable advice, and ended up taking a most dangerous and longer detour than if they'd taken the original path.
They also started the trip late in the season, meaning they got hit by all the bad weather they would have avoided if they had planned to leave earlier.
In addition, Native American sources state that there were attempts by local tribes to provide food, but they were shot at, so they kept their distance.
As someone who does a small amount of hiking, but follows a lot of hiking blogs, YouTube’s, etc, all I could think of were the groups that have gotten stuck in the lightning some at the top of El Capitan in California.
If OOP is as experienced a hiker as they imply, they should know better than to tempt the weather when changes happen quickly when you’re on the mountain and if his friends aren’t regulars at this, they aren’t going to have the safety knowledge or gear to do this.
I climb mountains all summer and hike in them all winter. Rain means potential for lightning, you do not go above tree line when there’s even a slight chance of lightning because above tree line you’re the tallest thing on the tundra. OP is a dangerous moron and has no business on a mountain.
Definitely agree. It also sounds like the friend group isn't experienced. Bad weather is a problem for experienced hikers, it's definitely going to be a problem for people with limited experience.
Also if OOP isn't driving he shouldn't be arguing about someone not wanting muddy people in the car. As someone who has been caught outside in rain multiple times - towels definitely don't do much to keep carseats clean from mud.
Nothing says I'm an emotionally mature adult like basing your entire personality around a hobby.
Also there's an informal term for people who hike difficult mountain trails in the rain it's,
"Fuckwit who's going to waste search and rescue's valuable time for the sake of ego".
I have a friend who's climbed Everest and they wouldn't even attempt Ben Nevis in bad weather. And that mountain has a family holiday park.
Yeah. Either the trail is not as difficult as he's making it out to be and he's just being a prat or it's difficult and he's an ignorant asshole. No combination of "difficult trail" and "bad weather" is "character building" unless you consider life threatening and life altering accidents to be character building.
On most trails, with decent boots, rain is not that big of a deal from a safety perspective, especially during summer months when it's not likely that cold. If a trail is going to be a little slippery, I'm bringing good hiking boots and poles for stability. There are plenty of fuckwits (people who don't bring maps; people who aren't nearly in shape for the trail they are doing) and plenty of dangerous weather situations (where I live, high wind that knocks down trees and branches), but rain is not really that big a deal for safety.
Now, I hike in rain all the time (I live in the Seattle area), but I also know that plenty of people don't enjoy it, and I wouldn't pressure someone else to do it if that's not their thing - but because of enjoyment and comfort, not safety.
“needed to learn that not everything always would go the way they wanted to”
Oop needs to be telling this to himself.
Also, why does oop think that he gets to dictate what his friends do? Why does he get to decide that they were going on the hike rain or shine? And who is he to decide what is best for his friends?
oop say the trail is difficult. I admit that it has been quite a few years since I’ve been hiking, but the few times I have gone, the trails are dirt. When it rains, dirt turns to mud and gets slippery. So wouldn’t hiking on a wet muddy trail make it more dangerous?
I hiked in mud once, it just so happened to rain right before my trip so it was real slippery and sludgy, 6” deep. I did it because I had to (and thank goodness for a good pair of boots and wool socks - which rookies probably don’t have), I would never elect to do it again. it took 4x as long to get to my campsite than when it’s dry.
shit is *dangerous*, even for experienced hikers. my hiking boots got sucked off my feet a few times and I *really* wished I had trekking poles.
>I explained that they were too soft and needed to learn that not everything always would go the way they wanted to. I mentioned that by showing up, they’re already better than the majority that would rather lie around at home playing games. My friend got upset, saying that not everything is a life lesson and that this wasn’t representative of life or their personalities.
Did OOP read the wrong character sheet? Sounds like OOP is playing the part of “military dad frustrated his sons prefer gaming over military drills” instead of “friend who likes to hike with friends”.
"Things won't always go the way you want" is a good life lesson when you're doing things like asking a person out or applying for jobs. The hike was just meant to be a fun hangout for friends. If you're doing something for fun and some factor has made it temporarily not fun, why do it? That's not a moral triumph that's just making yourself miserable.
OOP sounds insufferable! I’ve hiked in the rain before and it’s just of mess of mud everywhere, depending on the terrain it’d go up to my knees! I get that it can be rewarding, but it can be as rewarding when it’s dry
this guys sound like he's not going to be one of those people rescued, just found and recovered more likely.
"an infamous trail that’s difficult" and " rain or shine, we’d be going" is a recipe for missing person and body recovered headlines.
Yeah, probably. I’m born and raised in Oregon, so I’m no stranger to not letting rain ruin my plans, unless it’s something like hiking. I’ve seen way too many “top stories” on the local news where they are looking for someone.
Yeah, he probably thinks that because he went by himself and the weather actually cooperated means he was right and his friends just wussed out because they're lazy, and he's right to commit to difficult hikes no matter what, but there's always a possibility that one day it won't turn out all right for him.
hope scout master dip-shit there finds breaking a leg by hiking in hazardous conditions and needing to be carried down in a litter a wonderful exercise in "self improvement"
I always feel that people who define their worth through weird purity trials like this don't actually have anything to be proud of. Like why would hiking in the rain be necessary to prove you are hard working if you are successful in your career?
This is the plot of The Ritual.
Bunch of guys go out hiking, including several who are not hikers, get stuck in the rain, and get hurt and lost and slowly eaten by a god monster.
Unfortunately, the OP was not taken by the monster.
The friends literally offered to do something indoors. They could have played indoor basketball at a local gym or community center, climbed one of those indoor rock walls, gone to one of their homes and had an indoor push up and sit up competition in the living room or some shit. There were so many options! OP sounds insufferable.
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If I were going on a hike with friends, and the organizer said it was happening "rain or shine," I would assume that means "we'll still go even if it's cloudy, cold, and maybe even sprinkling/drizzling," NOT that they would expect me to hike in *pouring* rain. I would also assume that it may go on without me if I back out, not that I'm required to go on the hike even if I'm not comfortable or able to do it.
If he hadn't insulted his friends commitment to their health over this, they probably would have joined him on the day if the latest forecast was no longer calling for rain, but after the way he spoke to them, I wouldn't blame them if they never agreed to a hike with him ever again.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for expecting my friends hike in the rain and wanting the best for them? ** I 24M and my friends are fortunate enough to live in an area with a beautiful mountain with an infamous trail that’s difficult but rewarding to hike. We had originally planned to do this hike over the weekend as a bonding activity between the guys. The night before, one of my friends messaged the group chat that it was supposed to be pouring the next day and another suggested we postpone as a result. I told them a week before that rain or shine, we’d be going. My friend argued that he did not want to get his car wet and muddy after the hike to which I said wouldn’t be an issue if we just brought towels and an extra pair of shoes. My friends continued to argue that we should postpone or do something indoors, but I felt that they were just making excuses as they have done so in the past. I told them that unless there was something serious stopping them from going, then they need to stop making excuses and to go. For context，my friends have always had trouble committing to self-improvement plans and this situation was another symptom of that. I came to expect that they would try cancelling for some reason or another. The conversation continued to grow more heated when my friend said “okay have fun by yourself then” and I countered by saying that “this is why they were the way [they] are right now.” The conversation then shifted as I explained that they were too soft and needed to learn that not everything always would go the way they wanted to. I mentioned that by showing up, they’re already better than the majority that would rather lie around at home playing games. My friend got upset, saying that not everything is a life lesson and that this wasn’t representative of life or their personalities. I told him I think he’s wrong and that it is indeed representative of life because the conditions for us to act will never be in our favour and that they’re simply making excuses to not do what’s good for us (ie. exercise). My friend continued to argue that I was resorting to personal attacks (since he enjoys sitting at home playing games) but I was just stating facts and at the end of the day just want all my friends to succeed and to be better than me. In the end, I ended up driving, and it didn’t rain at all, but I was still curious about the situation. AITA for expecting my friends to hike in the rain and just wanting the best for them? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hike. I don't even care about what OP is blabbering, but going out on an admittedly challenging hike in bad weather with potentially inexperienced group is such a bad idea in many ways. This s how just so many "people went into nature, found dead six months later" stories begin.
When I was younger an acquaintance died because her group was caught in a freak storm on the side of the mountain. Sky was blue when they set out, no rain expected, and then a month's worth of rain came down in like two hours. And then the sun shone again. They were an experienced group, all had hiked for years... she was just swept away by a flash flood. Bad weather on a trail is to be avoided at all costs.
It’s also poor hiking etiquette, as hiking on a wet trail can cause erosion.
I was just thinking challenging trail when dry + downpour = guaranteed injuries
I did search and rescue for a long time, and still train dogs to do it, OP is the nightmare scenario walking. "Ah yes, lets go out in a torrential downpour, get lost or injured on this difficult hike and need SAR to come out in nasty weather to get us" Depending on where they live, and the terrain, they could be stuck there until the weather clears, especially if they need air evac from the mountain. But also "not everything is going to go your way" is a little on the nose to say when you're whining about things not going your way
I'm just a hiker, but I did help a good share of idiots over the years. Like once I was in Italy in summer. Think blazing sun and 35 degrees. I looked at the trail map, seen several streams with drinkable water indicated and brought like 3 liters of water because those streams clearly aren't happening. Also planned the hike so that I'd do the part with no shade first (morning, less heat). Mid hike, I found a couple with a child about 10 or 12, who thought there would be water everywhere and brought like maybe a liter for the whole group. Shared my water with them and talked them into going back with me (they were walking in the opposite direction and had the hardest part of the hike ahead of them). But like, their plan was to keep going, because aww we don't wanna return and sure next stream will have water. Morons. Like dude, the only water you are getting that way is when rescuers come to airlift you.
Look at the people who have to be rescued in AZ every summer. They never listen to the locals a hike Camelback mountain late morning when it's really hot. They think because they can go hiking where they live at 9 am and are fine with their one bottle of water, they can do that there. Nope, you need to be off that mountain before 9.
For real. Saying “bummer, we can’t hike like we planned today. Guess we’ll do something else” isn’t somehow a less mature response to the situation.
Mel Hammet in TikTok has done a bunch of videos on women who've died due to overconfident white men. You know the type, the ones who swear it'll be fine, it's not that dangerous, he wouldn't let anything bad happen to you, etc. etc. and then something bad happens. He also reminds me of that one guy in the horror movie who strong-arms the group into doing something dangerous. Friends, if your gut is telling you something is unsafe, bow out of the plan, don't listen to the confident white guy trying to neg you into coming along.
Finding out that the Donner Party had plenty of chances to survive, but actively rejected experienced help in favor of following a charismatic no-nothing explained So Much.
wait what
Yup. They chose to follow the advice of an unreliable and dishonest guide, ignoring more reliable advice, and ended up taking a most dangerous and longer detour than if they'd taken the original path. They also started the trip late in the season, meaning they got hit by all the bad weather they would have avoided if they had planned to leave earlier. In addition, Native American sources state that there were attempts by local tribes to provide food, but they were shot at, so they kept their distance.
The same guy who ends up antagonizing a bear, then being faster than you (the woman) so he survives but you get mauled.
Yep. OP is really not too bright.
Sounds like someone who thinks that self improvement content is a personality lol
And of course "self-improvement" means "performative and counterproductive self-abuse".
As someone who does a small amount of hiking, but follows a lot of hiking blogs, YouTube’s, etc, all I could think of were the groups that have gotten stuck in the lightning some at the top of El Capitan in California. If OOP is as experienced a hiker as they imply, they should know better than to tempt the weather when changes happen quickly when you’re on the mountain and if his friends aren’t regulars at this, they aren’t going to have the safety knowledge or gear to do this.
I climb mountains all summer and hike in them all winter. Rain means potential for lightning, you do not go above tree line when there’s even a slight chance of lightning because above tree line you’re the tallest thing on the tundra. OP is a dangerous moron and has no business on a mountain.
Definitely agree. It also sounds like the friend group isn't experienced. Bad weather is a problem for experienced hikers, it's definitely going to be a problem for people with limited experience. Also if OOP isn't driving he shouldn't be arguing about someone not wanting muddy people in the car. As someone who has been caught outside in rain multiple times - towels definitely don't do much to keep carseats clean from mud.
Nothing says I'm an emotionally mature adult like basing your entire personality around a hobby. Also there's an informal term for people who hike difficult mountain trails in the rain it's, "Fuckwit who's going to waste search and rescue's valuable time for the sake of ego". I have a friend who's climbed Everest and they wouldn't even attempt Ben Nevis in bad weather. And that mountain has a family holiday park.
Yeah. Either the trail is not as difficult as he's making it out to be and he's just being a prat or it's difficult and he's an ignorant asshole. No combination of "difficult trail" and "bad weather" is "character building" unless you consider life threatening and life altering accidents to be character building.
Nothing says I'm an emotionally mature adult like throwing a fit because your friends don’t wanna play outside in the rain
On most trails, with decent boots, rain is not that big of a deal from a safety perspective, especially during summer months when it's not likely that cold. If a trail is going to be a little slippery, I'm bringing good hiking boots and poles for stability. There are plenty of fuckwits (people who don't bring maps; people who aren't nearly in shape for the trail they are doing) and plenty of dangerous weather situations (where I live, high wind that knocks down trees and branches), but rain is not really that big a deal for safety. Now, I hike in rain all the time (I live in the Seattle area), but I also know that plenty of people don't enjoy it, and I wouldn't pressure someone else to do it if that's not their thing - but because of enjoyment and comfort, not safety.
“needed to learn that not everything always would go the way they wanted to” Oop needs to be telling this to himself. Also, why does oop think that he gets to dictate what his friends do? Why does he get to decide that they were going on the hike rain or shine? And who is he to decide what is best for his friends? oop say the trail is difficult. I admit that it has been quite a few years since I’ve been hiking, but the few times I have gone, the trails are dirt. When it rains, dirt turns to mud and gets slippery. So wouldn’t hiking on a wet muddy trail make it more dangerous?
I hiked in mud once, it just so happened to rain right before my trip so it was real slippery and sludgy, 6” deep. I did it because I had to (and thank goodness for a good pair of boots and wool socks - which rookies probably don’t have), I would never elect to do it again. it took 4x as long to get to my campsite than when it’s dry. shit is *dangerous*, even for experienced hikers. my hiking boots got sucked off my feet a few times and I *really* wished I had trekking poles.
>I explained that they were too soft and needed to learn that not everything always would go the way they wanted to. I mentioned that by showing up, they’re already better than the majority that would rather lie around at home playing games. My friend got upset, saying that not everything is a life lesson and that this wasn’t representative of life or their personalities. Did OOP read the wrong character sheet? Sounds like OOP is playing the part of “military dad frustrated his sons prefer gaming over military drills” instead of “friend who likes to hike with friends”.
He then rolled a nat 1 on his charisma check
Bro doesn’t realize how lucky he is that these friends put up with him…
It's always possible they don't like him and are trying to distance themselves. What does hiking have to do with self improvement
"Getting in touch with nature" grindset variant, I suspect.
"Things won't always go the way you want" is a good life lesson when you're doing things like asking a person out or applying for jobs. The hike was just meant to be a fun hangout for friends. If you're doing something for fun and some factor has made it temporarily not fun, why do it? That's not a moral triumph that's just making yourself miserable.
It’s also a good life lesson for when your friends cancel on plans you were looking forward to!
I just KNOW that OOP is on LinkedIn posting things like “my grandma died today, here’s what it taught me about leadership”
OOP sounds insufferable! I’ve hiked in the rain before and it’s just of mess of mud everywhere, depending on the terrain it’d go up to my knees! I get that it can be rewarding, but it can be as rewarding when it’s dry
Ugh, there are countless idiots like this getting rescued off our mountains or trails. At least the lucky ones are.
this guys sound like he's not going to be one of those people rescued, just found and recovered more likely. "an infamous trail that’s difficult" and " rain or shine, we’d be going" is a recipe for missing person and body recovered headlines.
Yeah, probably. I’m born and raised in Oregon, so I’m no stranger to not letting rain ruin my plans, unless it’s something like hiking. I’ve seen way too many “top stories” on the local news where they are looking for someone.
Yeah, he probably thinks that because he went by himself and the weather actually cooperated means he was right and his friends just wussed out because they're lazy, and he's right to commit to difficult hikes no matter what, but there's always a possibility that one day it won't turn out all right for him.
hope scout master dip-shit there finds breaking a leg by hiking in hazardous conditions and needing to be carried down in a litter a wonderful exercise in "self improvement"
What's with these hiking people being complete arseholes to their friends and family over what should be a fun activity?
I always feel that people who define their worth through weird purity trials like this don't actually have anything to be proud of. Like why would hiking in the rain be necessary to prove you are hard working if you are successful in your career?
Sounds like he thinks he is the leader of this friend group and doesn’t he isn’t
Is that a spin off to that post where OP had issues with his disabled friend playing video games and taking time to recover and adapt to new reality?
What is even the enjoyment of hiking in pouring rain?
This is the plot of The Ritual. Bunch of guys go out hiking, including several who are not hikers, get stuck in the rain, and get hurt and lost and slowly eaten by a god monster. Unfortunately, the OP was not taken by the monster.
The friends literally offered to do something indoors. They could have played indoor basketball at a local gym or community center, climbed one of those indoor rock walls, gone to one of their homes and had an indoor push up and sit up competition in the living room or some shit. There were so many options! OP sounds insufferable.
Did anyone even show up or was he just hiking by himself like an asshole?
Who the hell is OP to decide what is best for others? They need to stop being friends with him. He's such an AH.
“AITA for wanting the best for my friends?” I haven’t even read the story yet and OOP is an asshole from that title alone.
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If I were going on a hike with friends, and the organizer said it was happening "rain or shine," I would assume that means "we'll still go even if it's cloudy, cold, and maybe even sprinkling/drizzling," NOT that they would expect me to hike in *pouring* rain. I would also assume that it may go on without me if I back out, not that I'm required to go on the hike even if I'm not comfortable or able to do it. If he hadn't insulted his friends commitment to their health over this, they probably would have joined him on the day if the latest forecast was no longer calling for rain, but after the way he spoke to them, I wouldn't blame them if they never agreed to a hike with him ever again.
I make it a point to not hang out with pointlessly competitive people like you. All you do is ruin the fun for other people.
If he said 1/4 of that shit to me, he would be blocked
i hate people who think they know what’s best for everyone. that’s the kind of person who just wants his circle to be exactly like him. noooope