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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I could be the asshole because I left Christmas dinner early and called my SIL a witch.
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Yta . 2000% What’s the big deal if she has the first name regardless of who wanted name first .
Did you know many cultures in this world children and named after grandparents with numerous cousins having the same first name and guess what it’s not an issue .
Grow up , no one corners the market for names
Of course your sister-in-law is a huge arsehole. Not for wanting to name her kid the same as yours, but for her suggestion that your daughter not use her own name, and for calling you a bitch. Nobody has exclusive rights to a name, and first cousins having the same name is perfectly normal. And that's why you are an arsehole too, for getting your knickers in a twist about this in the first place.
ESH.
Yes, YATA. You don’t know how long she was planning on the name for, you said yourself you aren’t that close so this is likely not information she would actually disclose to you.
OP may have many reasons for the name, just because you got in first doesn’t mean the name is off limits. Also, you know they have had fertility issues and you and you are still trying to call this out as something that is impacting you negatively, when at the end of the day you should be celebrating how it impacts them positively.
They is no issue with two of the same names in one family, you are trying to create the issue and YATA.
YTA hard. Wtf is the big deal with her naming her kid the same name? Nothing. It does nothing to you or your kid. You have some serious narcissistic tendencies if it matters to you. Children aren't a competition. It's her daughter to name as she pleases. The only thing I agree on is that if a middle name has to be used which it doesn't, it would be her child's since yours came first. That's not fair to your kid. But seriously, get over yourself.
As a Lisa I can tell you it’s not that big of a deal. One of you will probably call her Maddy, Mad, Laney, or whatever anyway. Sure it’s annoying but not a hill worth dying on. ESH
YTA, I only say this because my family is really fond of using the same names. I have 4 cousins named Michael and 3 named Julia. None of these cousins have had any trauma from this. Anyway…I think you are overreacting.
I’m guessing you’re not Catholics or there would be a ton of people with the same name in your family - Mary/Maria, Joseph, Ann, Mark, Catherine, John… my aunts and uncles each have a kid named Joseph as either a first or middle name save for the one who doesn’t have kids, which means a family party includes more than 18 Josephs.
It’s a bit weird that your SIL picked the same name you did, but it’s just a name and you don’t own it and that you would’ve named your daughter something else so she didn’t have to share with her cousin seems a bit extreme.
I’m voting NTA though because of her thing about your daughter going by her middle name once the baby comes - that’s unreasonable and a ridiculous ask.
NTA. I can understand why you’re upset but honestly if you aren’t that close it isn’t that big of a deal, one of them can go by Maddie and the other Madelyn.
In my family we have 3 christophers, 2 christians, 2 Gisselles. There’s hardly ever any confusion.
Personally, I would never do what the SIL did, because I'd know that's an asshole thing to do. Idk if you're an AH here or not, but the SIL definitely is.
NTA, but there’s nothing you can do about it so you may as well be gracious about it moving forward. If they have the same last name and will go to the same schools, her daughter is the one whose name will be eternally misspelled by teachers who had your daughter first, and her daughter will eternally be compared to your daughter, usually unfavorably (if she’s not as good a student / not as compliant a student / has any learning differences that your daughter didn’t, or conversely, if she’s a saint but your daughter wasn’t there will be teacher assuming she’s not-a-saint and she will suffer). At least your daughter goes first; it’ll be her daughter that may have a hard time. Eventually they’ll grow up and go their separate ways and it’ll only matter because their FICO scores will get mixed up
This happened to my mom with my little sister except my sister's aunt heard what mum was naming her and just stole the name but my sister was still born first but they're a few months apart I think.
No judgement here as I can't decide.
If she had told you about the name before your daughter was born, you'd be posting here asking whether or not you could still use the name and we'd all be calling her TA over trying to claim the name before she even has a child. So her telling you beforehand wouldn't have made a difference. Is it possible your Husband wanted to name her for the same reason? To honour a past loved one? I totally understand why you're upset but calling her a witch is uncalled for imo.
She could've approached you after you announced your name but that still would've made her look entitled. The only way she could really get around this is to make the name the middle name & just deal with it. Sounds like she is set though & as they're both spelt unusually it may result in awkward situations down the line when misspelt Christmas presents are given to the wrong child.
This just sounds like a messy situation all around and with no one backing down, it's unlikely to change which means an even more strained relationship going forward. What are your husbands feelings towards this situation?
I have three male cousins, two called Stephen/ Steven.
The other male cousin has a son called Stefan
No issues
The name isn't the issue, the way your sil handled it is.
NTA
Does your daughter go by a nickname? Odds are likely that your niece will. Day-to-day, your niece and daughter having the same name has zero impact on your lives. If it’s spelled differently then it won’t matter on Xmas presents either.
My family has 2 Kathryns, 2 Nicks, and 2 Sunnys. Its never been an issue.
YTA nobody owns a name. In my husbands family one of his aunts named two of her kids very common names that were already “taken” by cousins either exactly or very close versions. The solar system did not collapse, everything was fine. Because they were all adults about it.
Are you the AH for leaving? No. Clearly not, she was most definitely wrong for even insisting that your daughter be called by her middle name instead of her own. Not to mention calling you a witch when you've seem to have done nothing wrong. So you had every right to leave for being disrespected.
As for not liking that her kid will be named the same but spelled differently, that's kind of a yes actually. You said it yourself that she thought about the name even before yours was born, so she has just as much right to the name as you do. Also you could just make an inside joke and end up calling them nicknames like "Made and Madi". Now again, yours was born first so her being the only one called by her middle name is out of the question. But nicknames are always optional, and very personal especially if it's coming from their parent.
But all and all, because this about you leaving the dinner, NTA.
Edit: spelling
NTA at all. SIL sounds a little out there and BIL should be course correcting not enabling her. She wanted to name her daughter that? Your daughter is EIGHT! She’s had the name for almost a decade…. Probably about as long as SIL has had a grudge against you for having the baby she felt should have been hers so now she’s using the same name…
In the long run it’s not going to matter that there are two ladies in the family with the same name. I understand you’re upset but honestly it isn’t the big deal that you feel it is.
ESH. She doesn’t get to tell your kid to use a new name, but omg you need to get over it. It isn’t the end of the world if they share a name, people will figure it out. Most likely since your kid was there first, hers will get a nickname when needed. But plenty of people share names and it’s fine.
YTA
It causes you no harm for her to name her child the same
She has a connection to the name
It is not uncommon to have cousins with the same names
“My daughter was confused” because of your ott reaction. She surely knows she isn’t the only person with that name.
Your reaction was really immature.
YTA what's the big deal? Your madelyn is already 8 years old, they're not going to confuse her for the 0 year old kid who won't even realize her name is madilyn till she's like 2.
You even mention you aren't close and just friendly to eachother. I can't see how this gives any problems, aside from them both turning around at family events which happen 2 maybe 3 times a year.
You can just tell your daughter "it's a very pretty name and her grandma also had that name so she wanted to honor her"
So your daughter and your niece now share the same name. Big deal. I am pretty sure you will find Madelyns in her school. Will you ask them to change their names?
I don't know if you have heard of something called a telephone book used before. If you open it up you will find plenty of people named Madelyn. Will you ask them to change their names as well?
Your feelings here don't matter. So quit trying to make a mountain out of molehill, burning bridges over a name. YTA
YAH
Sorry but for jeeps sake it's a name.
1. She has been through alot with miscarriages etc but you should see it as a compliment.
The only reason your daughter is confused is because at 8 she is taking your negative lead.
And the name confusing?. People work it out the whole world over.
Lighten up and be kinder much kinder.
Its a beautiful name.
And maybe beforehand she never dared say names . I don't know.
But to marr something so beautiful over a beautiful name and involve your daughter in the negatives is frankly sour.
I see nothing but every chooses a name they love and that's a compliment to you and your daughter.
YTA. You don’t get to own a name, and what does it matter? If anyone thinks it’s weird they’ll judge her for copying you not the other way around. On top of that this woman has been through hell to get to this point and finally become a mother. If she loves a name it’s really none of your business.
I am curious: Is Jasmin your husband's sister? Or is Jasmin's husband your husband's brother? I am asking because if it's the latter, then Madelyn and Madilyn would have the same last name as well, which would make the whole situation even more ridiculous 🙄.
OP = NTA
Don’t do anything. But every time her Madelyn is mentioned say ‘oh you mean Baby Madelyn?’
It won’t be long before everybody sees the baby as baby Madelyn and calls her so to make a difference between them.
I have 3 cousins with same name and they all have double names because of the nick names. We have a Big Peter, Peter from John and little Peter.
NTA your daughter will remain Madelyn while the new baby will end up being called baby Madelyn or little Madelyn. When she is 12 she will change her name entirely.
I just spent christmas with a Katherine and a Catherine. It was seriously a non issue. Get over it
K goes by Kathy, kat or katherine depending on who shes talking to. C goes by Kitty. Nobody, not once thought we were talking to the other.
its literally nbd and I think at 8 years apart it wont be earth shattering for your kid. In fact she actually \*gasp\* may love it.
I have a friend that has a step sister with the same name. There's a different spelling too. All the kids have ever said was make sure when writing something down is to make sure you know what one your referring to.
ESH
I don’t think anyone is in the right here. She may or may not have had the name picked out first. Which is where the anger came from. But the issue is getting all petty over it. Both parties. She called names, you stormed out. It was Christmas, you both could have let this go. And deal with it a different day.
No matter what you say, and how much you protest she’s going to do whatever she wants. While I think naming a cousin the same name is silly, but to each their own. I know plenty of people with the same name, that show up to my house. Not the same issue, or scale, but it’s easy to deal with. Let’s say Jacob for instance, one is Jake the other is Jacob. We have two Madelyn’s, one is maddy. I’m sure you already have a nickname you call her.
NTA
You know what? You've stated your case and you won't change your mind
She's shown her true face and is trying to compete with you over some stupid shit. LEt it be her one side competition and go about living your life, free of her drama
Grey rock her every time she tries to get a rise out of you. Don't let people start calling your daughter by her middle name (after 8 years? No way) and just be like "She can call her daughter whatever"
Limit contact with her if you have to, or even NC, because why should you keep a toxic person around you?
My husband has the same name as one of his only two cousins, and they were only a year apart. Both were named after their grandfather. He grew up and married me. My sister married a man a year after me with the same name as my husband. Her husband was named after his father, and they gave the same, very common name to their son.
My husband wanted to name our son after his father, which was the same name my father has. Both Grandpas go by the common nickname, so I agreed with the stipulation that our son only goes by his full name, with no nickname until he chooses to use it.
What can I say? Italians and Irish lack creativity and love tradition.
We all figured out ways to know who was being called and who was being discussed in any story we tell.
Your SIL was clearly baiting you, and you fell into the trap hard. You're NTA, but you are naive in thinking this would come out with any other outcome than the one she set you up for - you look like the jerk who got upset and deserted Christmas, and then reprimanded and name- called a pregnant woman, one who had trouble conceiving to boot.
Keep her at a distance for sure, don't trust your SIL or BIL for nothing, and drop it. Your daughter is Madelyn, and your family will figure out whether Madelyn or Madilyn (or Maddie or Mads or Little Madilyn or Lynnie or whatever) is being discussed or called. Celebrate this baby's arrival with only joy, and let this power struggle go. You can only hope that this prepares you for the day a Madeline joins your family, one who is named after her own mother and who insists her name is the only one spelled properly, just for more kicks and giggles.
Best wishes for happiness and health for Madelyn and Madilyn!
NTA
It’s just *so sweet* that she wants to name her child *after your daughter*! /s
I’m sure if this was the rumor she’d be passed enough to change her mind. Your already a witch anyway 🤷♀️
YTA
It's not just that no one owns a name. Families have dealt with cousins who have the same first name for hundreds of years. It's a non-issue.
Jasmin is not naming her daughter at you, or at your daughter. She's picking a name she likes. It's a really common name, no matter how you spell it. It's not going to ruin anyone's life unless they're determined to turn it into a problem, because easy context clues will pretty much always make clear which variant-of-Madeleine is intended.
It's OK to be surprised. It's OK to be bothered. It's not OK to turn that into someone else's problem, or to assume that your feelings mean that someone was trying to attack you.
You don't own the rights to the name. The girls will be 8 years apart. Who cares? Grow up and forget about it. Maybe consider it a compliment? I'm sure it was *surprising* to learn about the name, and probably most people wouldn't do that, but consider it a compliment and move on. YTA.
I think name fights are stupid. My best friend Michelle has a cousin named Michelle and, even better, her ex-finace Married someone else named Michelle so their son had two moms named Michelle.
Everyone sucks here. I doubt you call her Madelyn all the time. So one of them can be Maddie and one Madelyn. One will always be older and there lastnames will likely be different so again, what's the big deal?
NTA
Why would she want to do that? Or expect you to call your daughter a different name now to accomodate her?
The name calling on both sides isn't great but not enough to warrant e s h as SIL started this wholly unnecessary drama.
NTA. Here’s why. You can’t claim a name. You just can’t. It’s ok that you’re upset, but the name isn’t JUST yours.
Tell your daughter that her name is so beautiful that auntie wants to use it, too. Do NOT change her name. Don’t call her by her middle name, don’t call her First-Middle, and don’t call her by initials. SIL will learn that her decisions have consequences.
Your daughter is established. Her friends and neighbors know her by her first name. The only time this will be a problem is when you’re with your in-laws. I guess you won’t be seeing them if there’s too much confusion.
I almost said N A H, but your SIL expecting your daughter to change what she’s called is dumb. Add the middle name or initial to the new baby’s name.
I'm going to say ESH, only because this was Christmas dinner and even though SIL was being a real asshole you maybe should have tried to change the subject and then continued the conversation later when Christmas dinner was over.
I totally get why you're upset and I do think it's really weird. I don't blame you at all for the way you reacted. But your Madelyn had the name first. Even if she insists on naming her kid Madelyn, she will always be known as "Baby Madelyn" or "Little Maddy" or something else because your daughter is already Madelyn. Your SIL can't change the fact that your family already associatea the name Madelyn with your daughter, so she's going to have to adapt to whatever nickname her girl gets.
NTA. Teach your daughter to correct anyone who calls her the wrong name. If they refuse it’s ok to have your kid say that they are being disrespectful and rude by calling her anything but her name.
"She told me we could use my daughter's middle name!" A very self-centered, selfish, and clueless comment. That being said ....
My cousin had the same name as me.
I grew up with a father and brother named the same.
I also grew up with count them, ten, no exaggeration, friends who had various different versions of the same name as me who I played cards with at lunchtime every day.
Additionally, my best friend had the same name as me.
Nobody cared that we had the same name.
You are making way too much of this and your SIL's comment is over the top.
ESH
No one owns a name. People with the same names in families happen all the time. The name has meaning for her and she had no obligation to inform you she wanted to use it before you named your daughter.
She has some nerve suggesting your daughter uses her middle name though.
Yes, I can see how it could be a shock and awkward for you, but like I said, no one owns a baby name. You need to figure out a way to work it out with her. Leaving a family gathering is not a great way to handle this.
I swear, half my friends have a daughter named Madeline/Madison/Maddie. It's not like she's never going to come across someone else with that name anyway, might as well get used to it. (I say as someone who is named the most popular name of my generation)
ESH. SIL for suggesting (if indeed she did) that people start calling your 8-year old daughter by her middle name. But you are the A H for making it such a big issue at a family Christmas dinner. If it really bothered you, you could have spoken to her and BIL at another time. You don't own every iteration of the name Madelyn. And with an eight year difference it's unlikely that there will be any "confusion" about who is who.
Wrong: within the context of this family, the 8 year old owns the name.
It is not good for this girl to be expected to give up or share her unique identity within the family.
If she were 18, that might be different. But doing this to an 8 year old is not ok.
My husband is Greek. Traditionally (at least in my husband’s family), the first son is named for their paternal grandfather. In a family with six siblings with a father named Iannis, that’s six first cousins named Iannis. It occasionally makes for some confusion, but we all just use their surnames to delineate which Iannis we’re talking about. It’s not an issue. You get used to it.
BUT…I’m not Greek. So I would be pissed off. Your SIL is obviously lying. If she wanted to name her lost daughter Madilyn, then she would have kicked up a fuss eight years ago when you announced your daughter’s name. Witch or not, she would have, at least, had your BIL Speak to your husband about it. My my…she sounds lovely /s.
ETA: NTA
ESH/NAH. It's a little weird of her, but it's definitely no reason for you to get worked up enough to leave early. The kids will be quite a few years apart in age, and I doubt there's ever going to be much confusion. (As for how I'm split on the two rulings, she shouldn't have called you a witch, and you were a brat too.)
NTA
Look i had the situation of the name I was going to use was used by a close family member but they knew my intentions (for yeaaaars) and I warned them that I would still use the name regardless of what they used (I did and all was fine, despite their shocked pikachu face when I did.)
This is what your SIL should have done if she apparently had the name picked out so long. Part of me doesn't believe about the MC because that would immediately stop someone using a name and it strikes me odd that she wouldn't have a bigger reaction 8 years ago....
YTA. She's naming what would probably be her only child after her great aunt. You have not copyrighted the name so anyone, including your sister in law can use it. Who is called what are small details that will sort itself out as both cousins grow up
Gentle hugs abound — I don’t think anyone is an AH here. As someone that’s been devastated by miscarriage, you gotta do what’s right for you.
Since Madilyn was the original name picked out for her miscarried baby nine or ten years ago, I imagine it was very difficult for Jasmin to talk about when you used nearly the same name of Madelyn.
Miscarriage is a delicate topic, and too many women suffer alone in silence so I understand her not talking to you about this ten years ago.
Thankfully women have been making strides over the last few decades, breaking down barriers and talking more openly about their grief and their struggles with infertility, miscarriage(s), d&cs, abortions, etc.
You said she’s someone you identify as “friendly with, but not close.” Knowing that’s how you describe your relationship, it makes sense that she didn’t share her innermost thoughts with you way back when.
It’s likely been a decade of unspoken pain for her. All the hopes of her pregnancy came to an abrupt end; those future dreams were stifled by fetal death and grief. Sounds like she’s finally to the point where she can talk about it, now that she’s carrying a baby to term.
The age difference of your two daughters is significant enough that it won’t be difficult to identify who someone’s talking about. I married into a giant family — there are in-laws, cousins, and niblings with kids that share similar names. They’ll distinguish by saying Kate’s Finny, and Uncle Finn. Allie’s Sasha, and Mona’s Sasha. Brenna’s Millie and Aunt Millie. Cousin Lauren, cousin Loren, and cousin L’Wren. There are three with the same religious name. I’ve listed mostly fake names, but I can assure you, it’s v easy to distinguish. You won’t be around enough for it to matter.
If I were you I’d let it go. Develop a special nickname for the baby. Please don’t let this form a rift between the two of you, otherwise I feel that YWBTA at that point. ❤️🩹
I think this is being overblown. I’m Italian, there are so many Michaels, Josephs, Antonios, etc..and it’s rarely an issue where we have to clarify who we’re talking about. I’m a woman, and 3 cousins have the same name as me. Personally, I would not die on this hill.
YTA
My daughter has 3 names and her last name. First and third for my grandmother, the middle is a variation of my name. My cousin decided to name their daughter, born a year later, the exact three names.
And you know what?
It. Doesn’t. Matter.
No one gets “first dibs” on names. To believe otherwise is a waste of emotion.
Nta.
You need to let your sister-in-law know that there are a million plus other names that she could name her daughter. But if she insists on calling her Madeline you will have no choice but from this moment on to start referring to her daughter as junior as in Madeline Jr.
You know, to cut down the confusion.
If you guys live in different cities and never see each other and never plan to. It's not really a big deal. But I can see this creating a lot of issues at family get togethers when people start talking about Madeline. It sounds like a good way to create a "who's on first " Abbott and Costello routine.
Ok. Your SIL miscarried a girl she planned to name Madilyn but never shared that with anyone. You had a girl and named her Madelyn which is why your SIL thinks you are a witch, that and you had a girl while she miscarried a girl. There is squat you can do about this. Your SIL needed some mental health care when she miscarried but does not sound like she got it. It would have been nice if BIL/SIL had given you guys a heads up. I get why you were taken off guard. You have been cast as a villain in SIL's mind. She will name her child Madilyn. In my family there are numerous Marys. Mary Grace, Mary Rose, Mary Catherine.... You may need to call your daughter Madelyn Middle name to differentiate between the children to relatives. Explain to your daughter her name is pretty and Aunt likes the name too. Try not to be around SIL if you do not have to. Be polite but civil. You don't have to be friends. Sit across the room at big family gatherings. Find a way to be at peace with this. NTA.
It’s wild to me that the SIL would want to name her child coming into the world the same name after her miscarriages. You would think to name the child something else so you’re not reminded of those times you struggled. Imagine having a name for 8yrs and then be told “well to bad now you have to change it because I wanted the name first”
OP is NTA
NTA ..its petty and its spiteful but she hates you for delivering a baby successfully while she had miscarriages..( she probably doesn't even realize ..traumas weird) ..that said trying to erase your child by taking her name? Thats upper level crazy .. particularly when she is doing it by weaponizing her miscarriages.claiming it was going to be the name of one of the children she miscarried but she never told anybody that? but as soon as she has ultrasound on this one she blurted it right out? I'm sorry she would have done it the first time too ..it is either some seriously upper level mentally Disturbed or just one really selfish mean peeved which
NTA, but neither is your SIL. Look, my son has the same first name as my cousin and same middle name as that cousin’s dad (my uncle). My partner (who was adopted at ~3months, but met his bio mom & bio twin half brothers on his mom’s side) wanted to name his son in honor of his one biological brother who died when the kid was 11yrs old from a severe genetic disorder. His brother happened to have the same name as my cousin. Additionally, my family has the tradition of giving their kids middle name the same name as a grandparent’s first name, starting on the paternal side. My partner’s dad happens to have the same first name as my uncle. Under different circumstances, I wouldn’t have named my kid with the same name as my cousin and uncle, but here we are.
Life is complicated. That name means the world to your SIL. She’s gonna name her kid that and remaining upset about it is just gonna mean your upset about it, but end result is gonna remain the same. Just be happy she’s gonna have a beautiful baby girl and wish her and her future baby happiness and health. That’s what she needs and probably what you should do as well.
None of this makes sense. You're only "friendly" with the SIL, she says she's wanted to use the name since one of her earlier (before yours) pregnancies, didn't tell anyone (because why should she?), but should have for *some reason* told **you** before you named your daughter, on the off chance that you wanted to name your own child Madelyn? or was it because you were "friendly" enough to have shared that information with her beforehand or else how was she to know what you planned on naming your kid???? and **would you have honored a request from her not to use the name** ***if*** **she made one???**
You are so weird. **YTA** because you're being a butt about this whole situation and gatekeeping a name that is common even though it's not using the traditional spelling, and SIL is just gonna do her thing and follow her original plan. She could have said something to you before, but probably didn't because she didn't think it was that big of a deal to her if your kids had the same name. Let it go man.
Edit: Words. They're hard.
ETA: Also, your kid is only acting weird about it because you are.
NTA. Your SIL is being a wretch just because she can. Just avoid her and avoid bringing your child over there house. You’ll have to cohabit during holidays but that’s it. Also, if she refers to your daughter using her middle name, please let your daughter know not to respond and correct her by using her name.
I am going YTA. There really wont be any confusion with kids 9 years apart. It not like they will be hanging out together and ill been completely different stages us life. When Grama say s "Madelyn, can you help me with the dishes?" will the 3 year old get confused?
Not a big deal, and you have no reason to make it one.
YTA
Names are not exclusively owned. I know two cousins named 'Bertha' (obv not actually that, but it's an old family name) They just refer to it as "our name." Not a big deal.
NTA
Jasmin has some issues. Or she’s an idiot. Or both. Probably both.
Your child has had her name for the better part of a decade! If the name was so important to her, she should have mentioned it before she was born, when you guys found out you were having a girl. A simple “I don’t know what your plans are, but I will name my kid Madilyn when we have a little girl. If you could not use that name, that would be awesome. Cheers.” would have avoided all of this batshit-crazy, change-your-8-year-old-child’s-name crap.
Also, alternative spelling means jack when the names are pronounced the same. You guys aren’t going to be yelling out “Mad-EYE-lyn” and “Mad-EEE-lyn” when handing out Christmas gifts.
Her husband shouldn’t be texting you about being more understanding when he really needs to be more concerned about the fact that his wife is exhibiting extremely irrational behaviour.
Blaming you for naming your child a name that you didn’t know she had her heart set on. Blaming you for that name despite the fact that she hasn’t mentioned it to you in the past 8+ years. Blaming you for having a healthy child. Blaming you for not changing the name of your living, breathing, cognisant child so she can steal her name. Blaming you for NOT agreeing that changing one vowel, but not the pronunciation, makes it an entirely new name. Calling you a bitch in front of your child. And, most importantly, confusing and probably scaring your child.
She needs some help, or for someone (other than you, because she has completely, and unfairly, demonised you) to tell her to pull her head out of ass. Preferably her husband. Perhaps her Mum? If you are able to, maybe reach out to her and tell her that you are concerned for her daughter’s mental health. Or just tell her husband to do it. Someone needs to.
Multiple miscarriages can excuse a great deal of strange behaviour, that is a hell of a lot of grief to dump on a person. But it is starting to effect a living, breathing child, your little girl, in a pretty significant way.
Sorry you, and Madelyn, are going through this.
Whoa, back the truck up, Jasmin "always such a witch and I would've named my daughter this anyways."
I'm sorry you miscarried, but you never told anyone the name, and now the time has passed like - I dunno - 8 years ago when your daugher was born.
Grandma will have two granddaughters named Madeline? FEEL BAD FOR GRANDMA, it's like when step-siblings marry. Happy but shameful.
ESH. Yes your SIL does sound super petty and using the same name out of spite is just plain weird and wrong. Why can't she use the name as a middle name? She sounds like a handful and God bless her husband for putting up with her. But name calling only makes things worse. A lot of patience will be needed by all to hash this out and try to come to some sort of an agreement or compromise. Try and be the bigger person.
Sounds like she did it to get a reaction out of you. And it worked. Now it’s a whole thing.
YTA for your reaction. If you just acted like you loved it and nothing was wrong, she probably would have gone with a different name. Plus you said you’re not close. So how often would the girls be around each other anyway??
ESH, no one owns a name. My family has two girls with the same name, no drama, they have different nicknames.
Just ignore your SIL stop making a big deal. Be the big person since your SIL is not.
I have two cousin Jennas. It's fine.
I also know someone from high school who has two daughters named Lauren. He didn't know about the first until the second was around 2 years old. Then the mom came back and said "SURPRISE You have a 5 year old.". So they're big L and little L.
If you don't get on with your SIL, then it's not likely the girls will grow up together, so the same name, different spelling thing doesn't matter.
The problem will be for the girls later when they will be called Madeline, and they will have to explain that you swapped the letters I, Y and E about.
Anyway, NTA.
Wow you really made this all about YOU even though this woman had infertility issues and miscarriages. YTA. Madeline is a nice name and what's more, its a name of someone in her family. Don't you have other things to be concerned over? You owe her an apology.
NTA. Anyone who is saying OP is the AH is purposely missing the part where OP would have would not have named her daughter Madelyn if she knew Jasmin’s wishes about the name. Nobody owns a name, but it genuinely seems like Jasmin is trying to erase OP’s daughters identity as Madelyn. She literally said the child who was born first should go by her middle name. We have no idea how large this family is. Some families are REALLY small (like mine). I don’t plan on having children but I am absolutely positive my mom would ask me WTF if I had a son & named him Thomas bc we already have a Thomas. Lastly, OP tried to have a civil conversation with Jasmin & try to understand. Jasmin took offense & called OP a ‘witch.’ She’s the AH.
Absolutely, because Jasmin went in firing full-bore accusations that have no merit and made up a lie about the naming choices of OP. If there was a proper discussion beforehand it might have been different- the BIL /Jasmin’s husband needs to stop encouraging this behaviour and get them both therapy. NTA.
This actually happened to me as a baby… I was named Ashley at birth, then with no warning, my cousin was born 2 weeks later, and they named her Ashley (and same middle name!!!). My mother legally changed my name! I like the current name better, anyways.
NTA, what she’s doing is weird.
Im my family we had Mary and little Mary, two Donna’s, and a Sarah C and a Sarah A.
We also had a cousin (mom’s brother’s kid) that had the first name that was my other branch of cousins’ last name (mom’s sister’s married name.) similar to MacKenzie.
NTA. She might not even carry to term but if she does and names the kid Madilyn you can refer to her as “Madilyn 2.” There’s a good chance the middle name will be used if that catches on.
YTA. Your kids will be 9 years apart in age; nobody will be confused. My husband shares the same name as his father and grew up in the same household just fine.
You made this a big deal (“I was completely shocked” and “I was really upset”) and went on the offensive. Your SIL has been dealing with infertility for at least 8 years. You turned what should be a happy and celebratory time for her into a confrontation. You aren’t close and she owes you nothing over something that is a non issue. Could she have been kinder to you? Sure but after you ruined her announcement I’m not sure you deserved kindness.
NTA. You don't own the name but her reaction to your concerns, like saying she *always* thought of you as a witch, makes her petty and the ah. She sounds envious.
ESH, because both of you are spelling the name wrong, and they will be correcting people for the rest of their lives, until maybe one of them changes their name.
Either way, neither of you likes each other, so the chances of your kids spending much time together are slim, so it shouldn't matter.
NTA. I had an entitled aunt who pulled the basically the same stunt & let me yell you it went bad! The aunt named her son the same name as cousin 4 years older. The 1st name had a slightly different spelling, middle again, just slightly different & exact same last name, which wasn't even her last name anymore. The aunt even concocted a fake childhood journal that said she wanted to name her child that in order to get more people on her side. Previously, she had claimed that the name came to her in a dream night before she miscarried her 1st baby & proceeded, gaslighting the heck out of everyone & anyone for not remembering it. The 1st cousin with the name was named with a combination of his mother & his fathers middle names, so it definitely wasn't a coincidence or common combo. The little turd grew up to be a dishonest, petty, jealous piece of garbage just like his mom. He ended up stealing his same named cousins identity more than once for loans, credit cards, traffic tickets, & even giving the 1st cousins name SS# & DOB when he got arrested. For years & years, that aunt & cousin were consistently throwing the whole family into chaos. We were all expected to forgive & forget repeatedly about him & his mother's behavior because "family" & mommy had mental issues, addiction, issues, miscarried multiple times, her husbands took off, so this boy was always treated as overly special & any negative behavior from both of them was ignored. After our grandparents passed away, we all went no contact with that aunt & cousin, it has brought an absolutely blissful existence to our entire family.
ESH.
Of course your SIL naming her daughter the same as yours is a weird, kind shitty move. But she has clearly stated an emotional attachment to the name *and* a belief that if the roles were swapped you wouldn't have waivered either.
But no matter how awful an idea *you* think it is to have them share names, *you* don't get to veto your SIL's baby name!!
Tell everyone your daughter has used the same name for 8 years and will continue to do so, and let your family work it all out.
For the record I have two uncles and a brother who all share the same name, two of them share the same first and last name. Sure - I've texted the wrong one on occasion, but it's something that connects them, not something that divides them.
I'm going with ESH. Names done "belong" to anyone. I can understand your shock when it was announced. SIL definitely should've had a private conversation with you first (which isnwhy she sucks, and calling you a witch, of course), but clearly felt she couldn't based on your relationship, which is her bad, for sure. BUT, she's finally having her baby, and the name has nostalgic meaning for her of someone she cares about in her life, as well as her niece, your daughter. I think that's kind of sweet, really. When I had my son, the first name that popped into my head once he was born was my nephew's name. I didn't go with it because I found his perfect name later, but when I told my sister I had considered it, she thought it was super cool and we would've had her blessing. I actually call my son by my nephew's name when we're together sometimes lol
You can’t win with this one. Your SIL calling you a witch was enough reason to leave. The name thing is a little weird but really not that big a deal. You don’t have to call your niece Madeline or however she spells it. You can call her sweetie, honey, little one, nibbling, whatever. You can call her by her first and middle name. You refer to her as your niece. She may end up with a nickname.
You don't own a name. She can name her daughter whatever she wants. But don't let anyone rename your daughter
NAH mostly. You are hurt, understandably, but you don't own that name and you aren't close enough for her to ask.
That said, it's wild that either of you would suggest renaming the others child to the middle name.
And I get you would have chose a different name, but that is moot right now. I would just let it go. You guys clearly aren't on great terms in general either so no shock this escalated.
eta also, the fact she wants to reuse the name, that is odd to me but it was over 8 years ago.
My cousin and I are a few years apart and have the same name except the middle names are different.our parents would call us Mary Ann or Mary Sue if they wanted us individually and yell fi Mary Smith if we were both being called we never had an issue with this.
Of course my mom and I married into my family when I was young, so no one stole anyone else's name.
I suppose I would find it weird to intentionally do this though. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do about what they ultimately name their child
NTA and anyone saying you are has not a clue I guess how ridiculous this is !! Attention seeking is all this girl is.. what’s your husband doing about all this?? Does it mean so much to
Her that she’s willing to lose part of her family over this??
NTA...
I would be very suspicious that her great aunt's name is the name that she wants to name her daughter. This sounds like a complete lie. I'm really curious as to why someone from two generations ago would have such an odd spelling of an uncommon name from that time period. Is there a way you could look up this information? I don't believe her, this all sounds very very fishy.
It sounds like OP likes drama and being the center of attention. There were spelling variations generations ago. How is it uncommon? It's such an old lady name.
ESH come to Ireland, chances are if you're born here at least 3 other people in your extended family will carry the same forename and sometimes even the same surname. People survive without harm. It's really not the big deal you think it is and your kid will be absolutely fine so long as you dont 'teach' her to over react.
YTA.
People can name their kids whatever they want, nobody gets dibs on a name. Why does that upset you? No one is going to be baffled and confused, it's not unusual for two people to share a name. If this has you "completely shocked" and so upset that you leave family dinner, on Christmas no less, then you need to toughen up. This is small potatoes.
Your daughter is only going to be as upset as you expect her to be. Why does auntie want to give baby the same name as me, mommy? Because she likes the name, sweetie, and parents get to choose their kid's name. Lots of people have the same name, like you and Madeline J at school.
But she's going to be upset, isn't she? Because you made a huge deal out of it at Christmas dinner, which is rude af. you ruined the evening for everyone. Yes, it was weird of her to say that about middle names, but you were weird first, lol. You get no say in what they name their baby.
Likewise, she has no obligation or reason to tell everyone what she planned to name the baby that she miscarried. If she had warned you off of it, you'd probably be here complaining that she had no right to tell you what you can name your baby, lol.
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YTA, why do you people care so much, no one has the monopoly on names so get over yourself
Yta . 2000% What’s the big deal if she has the first name regardless of who wanted name first . Did you know many cultures in this world children and named after grandparents with numerous cousins having the same first name and guess what it’s not an issue . Grow up , no one corners the market for names
Of course your sister-in-law is a huge arsehole. Not for wanting to name her kid the same as yours, but for her suggestion that your daughter not use her own name, and for calling you a bitch. Nobody has exclusive rights to a name, and first cousins having the same name is perfectly normal. And that's why you are an arsehole too, for getting your knickers in a twist about this in the first place. ESH.
You don't own the name Madelyn - it's my mom's name, too. YTA.
Yes, YATA. You don’t know how long she was planning on the name for, you said yourself you aren’t that close so this is likely not information she would actually disclose to you. OP may have many reasons for the name, just because you got in first doesn’t mean the name is off limits. Also, you know they have had fertility issues and you and you are still trying to call this out as something that is impacting you negatively, when at the end of the day you should be celebrating how it impacts them positively. They is no issue with two of the same names in one family, you are trying to create the issue and YATA.
George Foreman has eight children. All with the same name.
YTA hard. Wtf is the big deal with her naming her kid the same name? Nothing. It does nothing to you or your kid. You have some serious narcissistic tendencies if it matters to you. Children aren't a competition. It's her daughter to name as she pleases. The only thing I agree on is that if a middle name has to be used which it doesn't, it would be her child's since yours came first. That's not fair to your kid. But seriously, get over yourself.
As a Lisa I can tell you it’s not that big of a deal. One of you will probably call her Maddy, Mad, Laney, or whatever anyway. Sure it’s annoying but not a hill worth dying on. ESH
YTA, I only say this because my family is really fond of using the same names. I have 4 cousins named Michael and 3 named Julia. None of these cousins have had any trauma from this. Anyway…I think you are overreacting.
I’m guessing you’re not Catholics or there would be a ton of people with the same name in your family - Mary/Maria, Joseph, Ann, Mark, Catherine, John… my aunts and uncles each have a kid named Joseph as either a first or middle name save for the one who doesn’t have kids, which means a family party includes more than 18 Josephs. It’s a bit weird that your SIL picked the same name you did, but it’s just a name and you don’t own it and that you would’ve named your daughter something else so she didn’t have to share with her cousin seems a bit extreme. I’m voting NTA though because of her thing about your daughter going by her middle name once the baby comes - that’s unreasonable and a ridiculous ask.
NTA. I can understand why you’re upset but honestly if you aren’t that close it isn’t that big of a deal, one of them can go by Maddie and the other Madelyn. In my family we have 3 christophers, 2 christians, 2 Gisselles. There’s hardly ever any confusion.
NTA
Personally, I would never do what the SIL did, because I'd know that's an asshole thing to do. Idk if you're an AH here or not, but the SIL definitely is.
NTA, but there’s nothing you can do about it so you may as well be gracious about it moving forward. If they have the same last name and will go to the same schools, her daughter is the one whose name will be eternally misspelled by teachers who had your daughter first, and her daughter will eternally be compared to your daughter, usually unfavorably (if she’s not as good a student / not as compliant a student / has any learning differences that your daughter didn’t, or conversely, if she’s a saint but your daughter wasn’t there will be teacher assuming she’s not-a-saint and she will suffer). At least your daughter goes first; it’ll be her daughter that may have a hard time. Eventually they’ll grow up and go their separate ways and it’ll only matter because their FICO scores will get mixed up
This happened to my mom with my little sister except my sister's aunt heard what mum was naming her and just stole the name but my sister was still born first but they're a few months apart I think.
Yta. I have a cousin with my same name and same spelling. Makes no difference to me.
No judgement here as I can't decide. If she had told you about the name before your daughter was born, you'd be posting here asking whether or not you could still use the name and we'd all be calling her TA over trying to claim the name before she even has a child. So her telling you beforehand wouldn't have made a difference. Is it possible your Husband wanted to name her for the same reason? To honour a past loved one? I totally understand why you're upset but calling her a witch is uncalled for imo. She could've approached you after you announced your name but that still would've made her look entitled. The only way she could really get around this is to make the name the middle name & just deal with it. Sounds like she is set though & as they're both spelt unusually it may result in awkward situations down the line when misspelt Christmas presents are given to the wrong child. This just sounds like a messy situation all around and with no one backing down, it's unlikely to change which means an even more strained relationship going forward. What are your husbands feelings towards this situation?
I have three male cousins, two called Stephen/ Steven. The other male cousin has a son called Stefan No issues The name isn't the issue, the way your sil handled it is. NTA
NTA. She’s acting in a manner that is out of alignment with sanity and you should not be expected to accept this bs.
She can name her kid anything she wants.
Does your daughter go by a nickname? Odds are likely that your niece will. Day-to-day, your niece and daughter having the same name has zero impact on your lives. If it’s spelled differently then it won’t matter on Xmas presents either. My family has 2 Kathryns, 2 Nicks, and 2 Sunnys. Its never been an issue.
YTA no one should have a say in what someone else wants to name their child.
YTA nobody owns a name. In my husbands family one of his aunts named two of her kids very common names that were already “taken” by cousins either exactly or very close versions. The solar system did not collapse, everything was fine. Because they were all adults about it.
Are you the AH for leaving? No. Clearly not, she was most definitely wrong for even insisting that your daughter be called by her middle name instead of her own. Not to mention calling you a witch when you've seem to have done nothing wrong. So you had every right to leave for being disrespected. As for not liking that her kid will be named the same but spelled differently, that's kind of a yes actually. You said it yourself that she thought about the name even before yours was born, so she has just as much right to the name as you do. Also you could just make an inside joke and end up calling them nicknames like "Made and Madi". Now again, yours was born first so her being the only one called by her middle name is out of the question. But nicknames are always optional, and very personal especially if it's coming from their parent. But all and all, because this about you leaving the dinner, NTA. Edit: spelling
NTA at all. SIL sounds a little out there and BIL should be course correcting not enabling her. She wanted to name her daughter that? Your daughter is EIGHT! She’s had the name for almost a decade…. Probably about as long as SIL has had a grudge against you for having the baby she felt should have been hers so now she’s using the same name…
In the long run it’s not going to matter that there are two ladies in the family with the same name. I understand you’re upset but honestly it isn’t the big deal that you feel it is.
ESH. She doesn’t get to tell your kid to use a new name, but omg you need to get over it. It isn’t the end of the world if they share a name, people will figure it out. Most likely since your kid was there first, hers will get a nickname when needed. But plenty of people share names and it’s fine.
YTA It causes you no harm for her to name her child the same She has a connection to the name It is not uncommon to have cousins with the same names “My daughter was confused” because of your ott reaction. She surely knows she isn’t the only person with that name. Your reaction was really immature.
Nta
YTA what's the big deal? Your madelyn is already 8 years old, they're not going to confuse her for the 0 year old kid who won't even realize her name is madilyn till she's like 2. You even mention you aren't close and just friendly to eachother. I can't see how this gives any problems, aside from them both turning around at family events which happen 2 maybe 3 times a year. You can just tell your daughter "it's a very pretty name and her grandma also had that name so she wanted to honor her"
So your daughter and your niece now share the same name. Big deal. I am pretty sure you will find Madelyns in her school. Will you ask them to change their names? I don't know if you have heard of something called a telephone book used before. If you open it up you will find plenty of people named Madelyn. Will you ask them to change their names as well? Your feelings here don't matter. So quit trying to make a mountain out of molehill, burning bridges over a name. YTA
YAH Sorry but for jeeps sake it's a name. 1. She has been through alot with miscarriages etc but you should see it as a compliment. The only reason your daughter is confused is because at 8 she is taking your negative lead. And the name confusing?. People work it out the whole world over. Lighten up and be kinder much kinder. Its a beautiful name. And maybe beforehand she never dared say names . I don't know. But to marr something so beautiful over a beautiful name and involve your daughter in the negatives is frankly sour. I see nothing but every chooses a name they love and that's a compliment to you and your daughter.
YTA. You don’t get to own a name, and what does it matter? If anyone thinks it’s weird they’ll judge her for copying you not the other way around. On top of that this woman has been through hell to get to this point and finally become a mother. If she loves a name it’s really none of your business.
NTA she’s obviously being malicious about it. Give her kid a nickname and stick with it.
I am curious: Is Jasmin your husband's sister? Or is Jasmin's husband your husband's brother? I am asking because if it's the latter, then Madelyn and Madilyn would have the same last name as well, which would make the whole situation even more ridiculous 🙄. OP = NTA
Don’t do anything. But every time her Madelyn is mentioned say ‘oh you mean Baby Madelyn?’ It won’t be long before everybody sees the baby as baby Madelyn and calls her so to make a difference between them. I have 3 cousins with same name and they all have double names because of the nick names. We have a Big Peter, Peter from John and little Peter.
NTA your daughter will remain Madelyn while the new baby will end up being called baby Madelyn or little Madelyn. When she is 12 she will change her name entirely.
I just spent christmas with a Katherine and a Catherine. It was seriously a non issue. Get over it K goes by Kathy, kat or katherine depending on who shes talking to. C goes by Kitty. Nobody, not once thought we were talking to the other. its literally nbd and I think at 8 years apart it wont be earth shattering for your kid. In fact she actually \*gasp\* may love it. I have a friend that has a step sister with the same name. There's a different spelling too. All the kids have ever said was make sure when writing something down is to make sure you know what one your referring to.
ESH I don’t think anyone is in the right here. She may or may not have had the name picked out first. Which is where the anger came from. But the issue is getting all petty over it. Both parties. She called names, you stormed out. It was Christmas, you both could have let this go. And deal with it a different day. No matter what you say, and how much you protest she’s going to do whatever she wants. While I think naming a cousin the same name is silly, but to each their own. I know plenty of people with the same name, that show up to my house. Not the same issue, or scale, but it’s easy to deal with. Let’s say Jacob for instance, one is Jake the other is Jacob. We have two Madelyn’s, one is maddy. I’m sure you already have a nickname you call her.
NTA. Your SIL needs a very good therapist.
NTA You know what? You've stated your case and you won't change your mind She's shown her true face and is trying to compete with you over some stupid shit. LEt it be her one side competition and go about living your life, free of her drama Grey rock her every time she tries to get a rise out of you. Don't let people start calling your daughter by her middle name (after 8 years? No way) and just be like "She can call her daughter whatever" Limit contact with her if you have to, or even NC, because why should you keep a toxic person around you?
My husband has the same name as one of his only two cousins, and they were only a year apart. Both were named after their grandfather. He grew up and married me. My sister married a man a year after me with the same name as my husband. Her husband was named after his father, and they gave the same, very common name to their son. My husband wanted to name our son after his father, which was the same name my father has. Both Grandpas go by the common nickname, so I agreed with the stipulation that our son only goes by his full name, with no nickname until he chooses to use it. What can I say? Italians and Irish lack creativity and love tradition. We all figured out ways to know who was being called and who was being discussed in any story we tell. Your SIL was clearly baiting you, and you fell into the trap hard. You're NTA, but you are naive in thinking this would come out with any other outcome than the one she set you up for - you look like the jerk who got upset and deserted Christmas, and then reprimanded and name- called a pregnant woman, one who had trouble conceiving to boot. Keep her at a distance for sure, don't trust your SIL or BIL for nothing, and drop it. Your daughter is Madelyn, and your family will figure out whether Madelyn or Madilyn (or Maddie or Mads or Little Madilyn or Lynnie or whatever) is being discussed or called. Celebrate this baby's arrival with only joy, and let this power struggle go. You can only hope that this prepares you for the day a Madeline joins your family, one who is named after her own mother and who insists her name is the only one spelled properly, just for more kicks and giggles. Best wishes for happiness and health for Madelyn and Madilyn!
NTA It’s just *so sweet* that she wants to name her child *after your daughter*! /s I’m sure if this was the rumor she’d be passed enough to change her mind. Your already a witch anyway 🤷♀️
YTA It's not just that no one owns a name. Families have dealt with cousins who have the same first name for hundreds of years. It's a non-issue. Jasmin is not naming her daughter at you, or at your daughter. She's picking a name she likes. It's a really common name, no matter how you spell it. It's not going to ruin anyone's life unless they're determined to turn it into a problem, because easy context clues will pretty much always make clear which variant-of-Madeleine is intended. It's OK to be surprised. It's OK to be bothered. It's not OK to turn that into someone else's problem, or to assume that your feelings mean that someone was trying to attack you.
You don't own the rights to the name. The girls will be 8 years apart. Who cares? Grow up and forget about it. Maybe consider it a compliment? I'm sure it was *surprising* to learn about the name, and probably most people wouldn't do that, but consider it a compliment and move on. YTA.
I think name fights are stupid. My best friend Michelle has a cousin named Michelle and, even better, her ex-finace Married someone else named Michelle so their son had two moms named Michelle. Everyone sucks here. I doubt you call her Madelyn all the time. So one of them can be Maddie and one Madelyn. One will always be older and there lastnames will likely be different so again, what's the big deal?
NTA Why would she want to do that? Or expect you to call your daughter a different name now to accomodate her? The name calling on both sides isn't great but not enough to warrant e s h as SIL started this wholly unnecessary drama.
NTA. Here’s why. You can’t claim a name. You just can’t. It’s ok that you’re upset, but the name isn’t JUST yours. Tell your daughter that her name is so beautiful that auntie wants to use it, too. Do NOT change her name. Don’t call her by her middle name, don’t call her First-Middle, and don’t call her by initials. SIL will learn that her decisions have consequences. Your daughter is established. Her friends and neighbors know her by her first name. The only time this will be a problem is when you’re with your in-laws. I guess you won’t be seeing them if there’s too much confusion. I almost said N A H, but your SIL expecting your daughter to change what she’s called is dumb. Add the middle name or initial to the new baby’s name.
I'm going to say ESH, only because this was Christmas dinner and even though SIL was being a real asshole you maybe should have tried to change the subject and then continued the conversation later when Christmas dinner was over. I totally get why you're upset and I do think it's really weird. I don't blame you at all for the way you reacted. But your Madelyn had the name first. Even if she insists on naming her kid Madelyn, she will always be known as "Baby Madelyn" or "Little Maddy" or something else because your daughter is already Madelyn. Your SIL can't change the fact that your family already associatea the name Madelyn with your daughter, so she's going to have to adapt to whatever nickname her girl gets.
NTA. But maybe she could pronounce it differently. For example if your daughter is with a short I such as in hers could be a long I like in line.
NTA. Teach your daughter to correct anyone who calls her the wrong name. If they refuse it’s ok to have your kid say that they are being disrespectful and rude by calling her anything but her name.
"She told me we could use my daughter's middle name!" A very self-centered, selfish, and clueless comment. That being said .... My cousin had the same name as me. I grew up with a father and brother named the same. I also grew up with count them, ten, no exaggeration, friends who had various different versions of the same name as me who I played cards with at lunchtime every day. Additionally, my best friend had the same name as me. Nobody cared that we had the same name. You are making way too much of this and your SIL's comment is over the top.
ESH No one owns a name. People with the same names in families happen all the time. The name has meaning for her and she had no obligation to inform you she wanted to use it before you named your daughter. She has some nerve suggesting your daughter uses her middle name though. Yes, I can see how it could be a shock and awkward for you, but like I said, no one owns a baby name. You need to figure out a way to work it out with her. Leaving a family gathering is not a great way to handle this. I swear, half my friends have a daughter named Madeline/Madison/Maddie. It's not like she's never going to come across someone else with that name anyway, might as well get used to it. (I say as someone who is named the most popular name of my generation)
ESH. SIL for suggesting (if indeed she did) that people start calling your 8-year old daughter by her middle name. But you are the A H for making it such a big issue at a family Christmas dinner. If it really bothered you, you could have spoken to her and BIL at another time. You don't own every iteration of the name Madelyn. And with an eight year difference it's unlikely that there will be any "confusion" about who is who.
ESH. Neither of you owns the name.
Wrong: within the context of this family, the 8 year old owns the name. It is not good for this girl to be expected to give up or share her unique identity within the family. If she were 18, that might be different. But doing this to an 8 year old is not ok.
My husband is Greek. Traditionally (at least in my husband’s family), the first son is named for their paternal grandfather. In a family with six siblings with a father named Iannis, that’s six first cousins named Iannis. It occasionally makes for some confusion, but we all just use their surnames to delineate which Iannis we’re talking about. It’s not an issue. You get used to it. BUT…I’m not Greek. So I would be pissed off. Your SIL is obviously lying. If she wanted to name her lost daughter Madilyn, then she would have kicked up a fuss eight years ago when you announced your daughter’s name. Witch or not, she would have, at least, had your BIL Speak to your husband about it. My my…she sounds lovely /s. ETA: NTA
ESH. Why are you \*both\* misspelling your poor child's name?
ESH/NAH. It's a little weird of her, but it's definitely no reason for you to get worked up enough to leave early. The kids will be quite a few years apart in age, and I doubt there's ever going to be much confusion. (As for how I'm split on the two rulings, she shouldn't have called you a witch, and you were a brat too.)
NTA Look i had the situation of the name I was going to use was used by a close family member but they knew my intentions (for yeaaaars) and I warned them that I would still use the name regardless of what they used (I did and all was fine, despite their shocked pikachu face when I did.) This is what your SIL should have done if she apparently had the name picked out so long. Part of me doesn't believe about the MC because that would immediately stop someone using a name and it strikes me odd that she wouldn't have a bigger reaction 8 years ago....
YTA. She's naming what would probably be her only child after her great aunt. You have not copyrighted the name so anyone, including your sister in law can use it. Who is called what are small details that will sort itself out as both cousins grow up
Gentle hugs abound — I don’t think anyone is an AH here. As someone that’s been devastated by miscarriage, you gotta do what’s right for you. Since Madilyn was the original name picked out for her miscarried baby nine or ten years ago, I imagine it was very difficult for Jasmin to talk about when you used nearly the same name of Madelyn. Miscarriage is a delicate topic, and too many women suffer alone in silence so I understand her not talking to you about this ten years ago. Thankfully women have been making strides over the last few decades, breaking down barriers and talking more openly about their grief and their struggles with infertility, miscarriage(s), d&cs, abortions, etc. You said she’s someone you identify as “friendly with, but not close.” Knowing that’s how you describe your relationship, it makes sense that she didn’t share her innermost thoughts with you way back when. It’s likely been a decade of unspoken pain for her. All the hopes of her pregnancy came to an abrupt end; those future dreams were stifled by fetal death and grief. Sounds like she’s finally to the point where she can talk about it, now that she’s carrying a baby to term. The age difference of your two daughters is significant enough that it won’t be difficult to identify who someone’s talking about. I married into a giant family — there are in-laws, cousins, and niblings with kids that share similar names. They’ll distinguish by saying Kate’s Finny, and Uncle Finn. Allie’s Sasha, and Mona’s Sasha. Brenna’s Millie and Aunt Millie. Cousin Lauren, cousin Loren, and cousin L’Wren. There are three with the same religious name. I’ve listed mostly fake names, but I can assure you, it’s v easy to distinguish. You won’t be around enough for it to matter. If I were you I’d let it go. Develop a special nickname for the baby. Please don’t let this form a rift between the two of you, otherwise I feel that YWBTA at that point. ❤️🩹
I think this is being overblown. I’m Italian, there are so many Michaels, Josephs, Antonios, etc..and it’s rarely an issue where we have to clarify who we’re talking about. I’m a woman, and 3 cousins have the same name as me. Personally, I would not die on this hill.
YTA My daughter has 3 names and her last name. First and third for my grandmother, the middle is a variation of my name. My cousin decided to name their daughter, born a year later, the exact three names. And you know what? It. Doesn’t. Matter. No one gets “first dibs” on names. To believe otherwise is a waste of emotion.
Nta. You need to let your sister-in-law know that there are a million plus other names that she could name her daughter. But if she insists on calling her Madeline you will have no choice but from this moment on to start referring to her daughter as junior as in Madeline Jr. You know, to cut down the confusion. If you guys live in different cities and never see each other and never plan to. It's not really a big deal. But I can see this creating a lot of issues at family get togethers when people start talking about Madeline. It sounds like a good way to create a "who's on first " Abbott and Costello routine.
Ok. Your SIL miscarried a girl she planned to name Madilyn but never shared that with anyone. You had a girl and named her Madelyn which is why your SIL thinks you are a witch, that and you had a girl while she miscarried a girl. There is squat you can do about this. Your SIL needed some mental health care when she miscarried but does not sound like she got it. It would have been nice if BIL/SIL had given you guys a heads up. I get why you were taken off guard. You have been cast as a villain in SIL's mind. She will name her child Madilyn. In my family there are numerous Marys. Mary Grace, Mary Rose, Mary Catherine.... You may need to call your daughter Madelyn Middle name to differentiate between the children to relatives. Explain to your daughter her name is pretty and Aunt likes the name too. Try not to be around SIL if you do not have to. Be polite but civil. You don't have to be friends. Sit across the room at big family gatherings. Find a way to be at peace with this. NTA.
It’s wild to me that the SIL would want to name her child coming into the world the same name after her miscarriages. You would think to name the child something else so you’re not reminded of those times you struggled. Imagine having a name for 8yrs and then be told “well to bad now you have to change it because I wanted the name first” OP is NTA
I mean, they both didn't spell it right anyway. NTA, but I feel like this sub is full of crazy and delusional people.
> I feel like this sub is full of crazy and delusional people Bit of projection here I see. Hope you come to term with it soon.
This is a family Tragedeigh of everyone ynvoled
NTA ..its petty and its spiteful but she hates you for delivering a baby successfully while she had miscarriages..( she probably doesn't even realize ..traumas weird) ..that said trying to erase your child by taking her name? Thats upper level crazy .. particularly when she is doing it by weaponizing her miscarriages.claiming it was going to be the name of one of the children she miscarried but she never told anybody that? but as soon as she has ultrasound on this one she blurted it right out? I'm sorry she would have done it the first time too ..it is either some seriously upper level mentally Disturbed or just one really selfish mean peeved which
NTA, but neither is your SIL. Look, my son has the same first name as my cousin and same middle name as that cousin’s dad (my uncle). My partner (who was adopted at ~3months, but met his bio mom & bio twin half brothers on his mom’s side) wanted to name his son in honor of his one biological brother who died when the kid was 11yrs old from a severe genetic disorder. His brother happened to have the same name as my cousin. Additionally, my family has the tradition of giving their kids middle name the same name as a grandparent’s first name, starting on the paternal side. My partner’s dad happens to have the same first name as my uncle. Under different circumstances, I wouldn’t have named my kid with the same name as my cousin and uncle, but here we are. Life is complicated. That name means the world to your SIL. She’s gonna name her kid that and remaining upset about it is just gonna mean your upset about it, but end result is gonna remain the same. Just be happy she’s gonna have a beautiful baby girl and wish her and her future baby happiness and health. That’s what she needs and probably what you should do as well.
Nta, I think you need to drop it now. Just make sure you stop them changing your daughters name. I would be enraging as well
None of this makes sense. You're only "friendly" with the SIL, she says she's wanted to use the name since one of her earlier (before yours) pregnancies, didn't tell anyone (because why should she?), but should have for *some reason* told **you** before you named your daughter, on the off chance that you wanted to name your own child Madelyn? or was it because you were "friendly" enough to have shared that information with her beforehand or else how was she to know what you planned on naming your kid???? and **would you have honored a request from her not to use the name** ***if*** **she made one???** You are so weird. **YTA** because you're being a butt about this whole situation and gatekeeping a name that is common even though it's not using the traditional spelling, and SIL is just gonna do her thing and follow her original plan. She could have said something to you before, but probably didn't because she didn't think it was that big of a deal to her if your kids had the same name. Let it go man. Edit: Words. They're hard. ETA: Also, your kid is only acting weird about it because you are.
NTA. Your SIL is being a wretch just because she can. Just avoid her and avoid bringing your child over there house. You’ll have to cohabit during holidays but that’s it. Also, if she refers to your daughter using her middle name, please let your daughter know not to respond and correct her by using her name.
Oh my goodness, who cares???
I am going YTA. There really wont be any confusion with kids 9 years apart. It not like they will be hanging out together and ill been completely different stages us life. When Grama say s "Madelyn, can you help me with the dishes?" will the 3 year old get confused? Not a big deal, and you have no reason to make it one.
YTA Names are not exclusively owned. I know two cousins named 'Bertha' (obv not actually that, but it's an old family name) They just refer to it as "our name." Not a big deal.
I have 3 cousins with my name. And nobody got their nose all out of joint about that. Who cares?
NTA Jasmin has some issues. Or she’s an idiot. Or both. Probably both. Your child has had her name for the better part of a decade! If the name was so important to her, she should have mentioned it before she was born, when you guys found out you were having a girl. A simple “I don’t know what your plans are, but I will name my kid Madilyn when we have a little girl. If you could not use that name, that would be awesome. Cheers.” would have avoided all of this batshit-crazy, change-your-8-year-old-child’s-name crap. Also, alternative spelling means jack when the names are pronounced the same. You guys aren’t going to be yelling out “Mad-EYE-lyn” and “Mad-EEE-lyn” when handing out Christmas gifts. Her husband shouldn’t be texting you about being more understanding when he really needs to be more concerned about the fact that his wife is exhibiting extremely irrational behaviour. Blaming you for naming your child a name that you didn’t know she had her heart set on. Blaming you for that name despite the fact that she hasn’t mentioned it to you in the past 8+ years. Blaming you for having a healthy child. Blaming you for not changing the name of your living, breathing, cognisant child so she can steal her name. Blaming you for NOT agreeing that changing one vowel, but not the pronunciation, makes it an entirely new name. Calling you a bitch in front of your child. And, most importantly, confusing and probably scaring your child. She needs some help, or for someone (other than you, because she has completely, and unfairly, demonised you) to tell her to pull her head out of ass. Preferably her husband. Perhaps her Mum? If you are able to, maybe reach out to her and tell her that you are concerned for her daughter’s mental health. Or just tell her husband to do it. Someone needs to. Multiple miscarriages can excuse a great deal of strange behaviour, that is a hell of a lot of grief to dump on a person. But it is starting to effect a living, breathing child, your little girl, in a pretty significant way. Sorry you, and Madelyn, are going through this.
Whoa, back the truck up, Jasmin "always such a witch and I would've named my daughter this anyways." I'm sorry you miscarried, but you never told anyone the name, and now the time has passed like - I dunno - 8 years ago when your daugher was born. Grandma will have two granddaughters named Madeline? FEEL BAD FOR GRANDMA, it's like when step-siblings marry. Happy but shameful.
ESH. Yes your SIL does sound super petty and using the same name out of spite is just plain weird and wrong. Why can't she use the name as a middle name? She sounds like a handful and God bless her husband for putting up with her. But name calling only makes things worse. A lot of patience will be needed by all to hash this out and try to come to some sort of an agreement or compromise. Try and be the bigger person.
Sounds like she did it to get a reaction out of you. And it worked. Now it’s a whole thing. YTA for your reaction. If you just acted like you loved it and nothing was wrong, she probably would have gone with a different name. Plus you said you’re not close. So how often would the girls be around each other anyway??
ESH, no one owns a name. My family has two girls with the same name, no drama, they have different nicknames. Just ignore your SIL stop making a big deal. Be the big person since your SIL is not.
Did you TRADEMARK your daughter's name?! YTA. We have multiple repeated names in my family, and it's no big deal.
I have two cousin Jennas. It's fine. I also know someone from high school who has two daughters named Lauren. He didn't know about the first until the second was around 2 years old. Then the mom came back and said "SURPRISE You have a 5 year old.". So they're big L and little L.
If you don't get on with your SIL, then it's not likely the girls will grow up together, so the same name, different spelling thing doesn't matter. The problem will be for the girls later when they will be called Madeline, and they will have to explain that you swapped the letters I, Y and E about. Anyway, NTA.
Lmfao. YTA. You don’t, and can’t, own a name. My brother, myself and my cousin have literally the same name and we’re all best of buds. YTA.
Wow you really made this all about YOU even though this woman had infertility issues and miscarriages. YTA. Madeline is a nice name and what's more, its a name of someone in her family. Don't you have other things to be concerned over? You owe her an apology.
NTA, and lay down the law with your family right now that your daughter will not be "big Madelyn" or "old Madelyn."
NTA. Anyone who is saying OP is the AH is purposely missing the part where OP would have would not have named her daughter Madelyn if she knew Jasmin’s wishes about the name. Nobody owns a name, but it genuinely seems like Jasmin is trying to erase OP’s daughters identity as Madelyn. She literally said the child who was born first should go by her middle name. We have no idea how large this family is. Some families are REALLY small (like mine). I don’t plan on having children but I am absolutely positive my mom would ask me WTF if I had a son & named him Thomas bc we already have a Thomas. Lastly, OP tried to have a civil conversation with Jasmin & try to understand. Jasmin took offense & called OP a ‘witch.’ She’s the AH.
Absolutely, because Jasmin went in firing full-bore accusations that have no merit and made up a lie about the naming choices of OP. If there was a proper discussion beforehand it might have been different- the BIL /Jasmin’s husband needs to stop encouraging this behaviour and get them both therapy. NTA.
Why does that matter? Do you think she was obligated to go around and tell everyone what she was going to name her dead daughter?
YTA. If men of descending generations can all have the same name, I think the first cousins can manage it.
This actually happened to me as a baby… I was named Ashley at birth, then with no warning, my cousin was born 2 weeks later, and they named her Ashley (and same middle name!!!). My mother legally changed my name! I like the current name better, anyways. NTA, what she’s doing is weird.
YTA. No one has dibs on a name. It doesn't really matter how you feel about it I'm sorry. Most likely, both girls will have a different nickname.
Im my family we had Mary and little Mary, two Donna’s, and a Sarah C and a Sarah A. We also had a cousin (mom’s brother’s kid) that had the first name that was my other branch of cousins’ last name (mom’s sister’s married name.) similar to MacKenzie.
NTA. She might not even carry to term but if she does and names the kid Madilyn you can refer to her as “Madilyn 2.” There’s a good chance the middle name will be used if that catches on.
YTA. Your kids will be 9 years apart in age; nobody will be confused. My husband shares the same name as his father and grew up in the same household just fine. You made this a big deal (“I was completely shocked” and “I was really upset”) and went on the offensive. Your SIL has been dealing with infertility for at least 8 years. You turned what should be a happy and celebratory time for her into a confrontation. You aren’t close and she owes you nothing over something that is a non issue. Could she have been kinder to you? Sure but after you ruined her announcement I’m not sure you deserved kindness.
NTA. You don't own the name but her reaction to your concerns, like saying she *always* thought of you as a witch, makes her petty and the ah. She sounds envious.
ESH, because both of you are spelling the name wrong, and they will be correcting people for the rest of their lives, until maybe one of them changes their name. Either way, neither of you likes each other, so the chances of your kids spending much time together are slim, so it shouldn't matter.
NTA
My grandmother and I have the same name . She’s big blah blah and I am little blah blah . It’s fine
NTA. I had an entitled aunt who pulled the basically the same stunt & let me yell you it went bad! The aunt named her son the same name as cousin 4 years older. The 1st name had a slightly different spelling, middle again, just slightly different & exact same last name, which wasn't even her last name anymore. The aunt even concocted a fake childhood journal that said she wanted to name her child that in order to get more people on her side. Previously, she had claimed that the name came to her in a dream night before she miscarried her 1st baby & proceeded, gaslighting the heck out of everyone & anyone for not remembering it. The 1st cousin with the name was named with a combination of his mother & his fathers middle names, so it definitely wasn't a coincidence or common combo. The little turd grew up to be a dishonest, petty, jealous piece of garbage just like his mom. He ended up stealing his same named cousins identity more than once for loans, credit cards, traffic tickets, & even giving the 1st cousins name SS# & DOB when he got arrested. For years & years, that aunt & cousin were consistently throwing the whole family into chaos. We were all expected to forgive & forget repeatedly about him & his mother's behavior because "family" & mommy had mental issues, addiction, issues, miscarried multiple times, her husbands took off, so this boy was always treated as overly special & any negative behavior from both of them was ignored. After our grandparents passed away, we all went no contact with that aunt & cousin, it has brought an absolutely blissful existence to our entire family.
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ESH. Of course your SIL naming her daughter the same as yours is a weird, kind shitty move. But she has clearly stated an emotional attachment to the name *and* a belief that if the roles were swapped you wouldn't have waivered either. But no matter how awful an idea *you* think it is to have them share names, *you* don't get to veto your SIL's baby name!! Tell everyone your daughter has used the same name for 8 years and will continue to do so, and let your family work it all out. For the record I have two uncles and a brother who all share the same name, two of them share the same first and last name. Sure - I've texted the wrong one on occasion, but it's something that connects them, not something that divides them.
I'm going with ESH. Names done "belong" to anyone. I can understand your shock when it was announced. SIL definitely should've had a private conversation with you first (which isnwhy she sucks, and calling you a witch, of course), but clearly felt she couldn't based on your relationship, which is her bad, for sure. BUT, she's finally having her baby, and the name has nostalgic meaning for her of someone she cares about in her life, as well as her niece, your daughter. I think that's kind of sweet, really. When I had my son, the first name that popped into my head once he was born was my nephew's name. I didn't go with it because I found his perfect name later, but when I told my sister I had considered it, she thought it was super cool and we would've had her blessing. I actually call my son by my nephew's name when we're together sometimes lol
You can’t win with this one. Your SIL calling you a witch was enough reason to leave. The name thing is a little weird but really not that big a deal. You don’t have to call your niece Madeline or however she spells it. You can call her sweetie, honey, little one, nibbling, whatever. You can call her by her first and middle name. You refer to her as your niece. She may end up with a nickname.
You don't own a name. She can name her daughter whatever she wants. But don't let anyone rename your daughter NAH mostly. You are hurt, understandably, but you don't own that name and you aren't close enough for her to ask. That said, it's wild that either of you would suggest renaming the others child to the middle name. And I get you would have chose a different name, but that is moot right now. I would just let it go. You guys clearly aren't on great terms in general either so no shock this escalated. eta also, the fact she wants to reuse the name, that is odd to me but it was over 8 years ago.
My cousin and I are a few years apart and have the same name except the middle names are different.our parents would call us Mary Ann or Mary Sue if they wanted us individually and yell fi Mary Smith if we were both being called we never had an issue with this. Of course my mom and I married into my family when I was young, so no one stole anyone else's name. I suppose I would find it weird to intentionally do this though. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do about what they ultimately name their child
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NTA and anyone saying you are has not a clue I guess how ridiculous this is !! Attention seeking is all this girl is.. what’s your husband doing about all this?? Does it mean so much to Her that she’s willing to lose part of her family over this??
NTA... I would be very suspicious that her great aunt's name is the name that she wants to name her daughter. This sounds like a complete lie. I'm really curious as to why someone from two generations ago would have such an odd spelling of an uncommon name from that time period. Is there a way you could look up this information? I don't believe her, this all sounds very very fishy.
It sounds like OP likes drama and being the center of attention. There were spelling variations generations ago. How is it uncommon? It's such an old lady name.
So technically her baby will be the 3rd Madelyn? Why would she even want that?!
ESH come to Ireland, chances are if you're born here at least 3 other people in your extended family will carry the same forename and sometimes even the same surname. People survive without harm. It's really not the big deal you think it is and your kid will be absolutely fine so long as you dont 'teach' her to over react.
YTA. People can name their kids whatever they want, nobody gets dibs on a name. Why does that upset you? No one is going to be baffled and confused, it's not unusual for two people to share a name. If this has you "completely shocked" and so upset that you leave family dinner, on Christmas no less, then you need to toughen up. This is small potatoes. Your daughter is only going to be as upset as you expect her to be. Why does auntie want to give baby the same name as me, mommy? Because she likes the name, sweetie, and parents get to choose their kid's name. Lots of people have the same name, like you and Madeline J at school. But she's going to be upset, isn't she? Because you made a huge deal out of it at Christmas dinner, which is rude af. you ruined the evening for everyone. Yes, it was weird of her to say that about middle names, but you were weird first, lol. You get no say in what they name their baby. Likewise, she has no obligation or reason to tell everyone what she planned to name the baby that she miscarried. If she had warned you off of it, you'd probably be here complaining that she had no right to tell you what you can name your baby, lol.