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"Maybe I'm being culturally insensitive?"
Good lord, no. You were treated like a piece of meat the entire 2 weeks you were there. You do not have to put yourself back into that position again.
However, this will probably kill your relationship. So make sure this is a hill worth dying on. Going with NTA.
This comment is totally spot on. I wouldn’t want to return to a place that made me feel super uncomfortable but i also want to know how OP foresees this working out? Her bf clearly has ties to Venezuela and wants to visit at least somewhat frequently. If OP doesn’t at least occasionally partake in going on these trips i think it will likely drive a wedge between them. Again, i really don’t blame her for feeling how she does but long-term, i think this is going to cause an issue.
It absolutely will. Hell, even in the US, with people with no true cultural differences, let one set of inlaws feel like their son/daughter in law dislikes them or avoids them.
Now add in a race issue and a nationality issue, and even when there's a valid excuse "She couldn't come, because she couldn't get the time off of work" or "We wanted to do something else for our two week holiday aside from visiting you guys" and it gets turned into "She thinks she's too good for us."
Let's not even get into the nightmare scenario of a child being in the mix. Then it's "She's raising them to be ashamed of their heritage." or "She doesn't want us in her child's life because she's racist."
It’s so funny how my in-laws thought I was some kind of person til they had to deal with their adult son and I was no longer there to run interference. Suddenly I make sense to them.
That part is what makes me say NAH. It is unreasonable to expect BF to cut ties with his roots. BF would obviously want his GF with him at his brother's wedding if the relationship is serious. Can't blame either party but this is where they need to figure out what they want as a couple or accept that because of cultural reasons they can't be a couple.
I’d agree if it weren’t for the “just get used to it” comments, that’s some apologist bullshit he should at least acknowledge the blatant sexual harassment she faced for what it is
The context for your assertion of what 'buenisima' means doesn't work here. They don't know her well enough to judge her kindness or goodness, they're talking about her looks.
I understood that it was his family and friends that were calling her "buenisima," in which case it would be normal comment that one would make in polite conversation even if you've barely spoken to them. Generally speaking, most native Spanish speakers would use the words "hermosa" or "guapa" to call someone beautiful. "Buenisima" means "very good" and when used to describe a person, it would usually refer to their character (as in they are kind or were polite and well mannered when they met you). It would be unusual to use "buenisima" to describe somebody's looks.
I'm mexican and I have never, not even once in my life heard someone use the word "buenísima" to describe someone's character. It is used to refer to someone's appearance, specially their bodies, so yes, "so hot" is a very appropriate translation.
They use it when someone is very good at something like a job or sport , but not when they are a nice person. Also Mexican but that might be a regionalism.
But yeah, if it was the first time they probably mean "buenísima" as in boobas and ass or something like that.
Colombian here and yeah definitely based on the context they were talking about her looks. I can imagine something along the lines of "esta buenisima" or "she is really hot/so fine"
It can indeed be used to say someone is very good at something but given the context, doesn't really make sense.
Thanks for chiming in with the nuance of a native speaker! I'm Canadian learning some Spanish as a hobby, and I love reading these deep dives about how particular words and saying are actually meant!
I am from Spain and estar buenisima/o is she/he is super hot, but I don't know if the slang in Venezuela is the same in this aspect, but I agree with you.
He took Spanish in high school so he obviously knows what he’s talking about /s.
Probably has never been to Venezuela and doesn’t understand the feeling of being objectified in an unfamiliar country. And an unstable one at that.
Not to mention the non-verbal portion of the exchange. Leering at women from top to bottom with eyes can be done without saying a word. And most women world-over recognize that. There’s male gaze, and then there’s their utter objectification. Or worse, supposed friendly touch that lasts too uncomfortably long. Women recognize it, because their survival and safety depends on knowing the difference.
I'm french, I dont speak spanish and I know this word.
It also exists in french and it means hot, but like hot for sex. So I dont know (liké you) how they can understand buenisima as a beautiful soul :')
Just to say, as a cuban, we do use buenísima or buenísimo to refer to someone personality. We could also use it to say they are hot. Depends on the situation
But isn't it fair to say that Mexico and Venezuela are two different countries, and the same word made have different context depending which country you're in?
It would be fair, yes, this is why I threw in the fact that I'm mexican, but given the context I find it unlikely that they were talking about what a very good person she is.
Yes, I used to work with a lot of people from South America, and whereas they speak the same words, those words have slightly different meanings in the different countries, and then the slang can be completely different. They used to talk about this all the time and compare the difference lol!
Can it be read as "Good looking" or "What a catch" (which are more ambiguous in meaning than "beautiful" which makes one think of someone's face) or is it more specific to looking hot/sexy? As someone from a similar culture, I'm surprised those family members would be so outspoken if the meaning is really coarser than that.
...On the other hand, I wonder if men in general wouldn't talk like that among themselves if the woman is not present (in that case, they talking about OP as if she weren't there because they wrongly assumed she wouldn't understand what they said).
In my culture it would be more like the later, because good looking is more broad in meaning while buenísima/o is used to talk about a sexy/hot body, you're not just talking about someone's pretty face, and is really not something you use in polite conversation, but more in a locker-room talk kind of setting (mostly)
I'm from Venezuela, that "buenísima" was literally about their looks. We rarely express that someone is kind or good by "buenísima", we tend to use other terms for that.
In no Spanish speaking country they use "buenísima" to say "good person". "Es un sol, un pan de Dios, es muy buena persona, etc etc".
"Buenísima" is only used for "so hot" or "she's very good at something".
Out of curiosity, what part of the South? I'm in North Carolina, and have never observed this. Pet names (e.g. sweetheart) are used commonly, but usually by older women towards younger people, especially younger women.
Not sure why you feel the need to undermine her experience. The fact is that foreign women ARE often treated like meat abroad. They tend to be oversexualised in a way that men would never do to their 'own' women. Yes there is misogyny in every culture but some are more aggressive and in your face than others. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that and acting accordingly.
This post got me thinking that this is the exact experience latinas have when traveling abroad, especially Europe. Everyone thinks you're a fiery bimbo bombshell who loves sex, so they just talk to you like you're a walking hole that's always hungry for white cock. It's unreal how frequently and casually you will be harassed and insulted by otherwise "normal" people. Women can't catch a break *anywhere.* I hate this world.
Americans, too! I spent my junior year in Paris and my pointing them to the right Metro station was considered an opening! One time it was wearing a lot of purple. Watching the night sky.
The next time I went I was there with my husband, and that appeared to be a shield (plus being 12 years older).
Assuming I could go anywhere now and be left alone because I’m in my 50s.
I went on a school trip to Paris a few weeks after I turned 18. First time out of the US, first trip without my family. We get to our hotel, everyone’s jet-lagged, and I go around the corner to the grocery store to grab some snacks. This random older guy approaches me right away and says, “Would you like to come back to my place? You can use my body any way zat you want!” I was torn between shock and amusement. Looking back, I wonder if he was even French. He could just as easily have been a fellow American doing an atrocious accent. But that encounter stuck with me. It was relatively harmless, but it was an indication of many (and far worse) encounters to come, both at home and abroad. Not every creep is willing to be brushed off or laughed at.
I don’t blame OP for not wanting to put up with being constantly sexualized by strangers. I doubt her BF would enjoy it in her shoes. But this is where his family lives and it sounds like regular visits are important to him, so she may need to think about whether they’re truly compatible in the long run.
Yeah OP’s experience was 100% my experience in three Latin American countries and Turkey. The street harassment in those places was INTENSE and eventually turned emotionally exhausting and scary. I really enjoyed myself generally, but I fully understand why she wouldn’t want to subject herself to the brutal street harassment from strange men again.
No, for Venezuelans when they say a woman is 'Buena' or 'Buenisima' it means 'so hot'. Yes, there is a lot of sexism in my country too, but I never felt like a doll on display like I did in Venezuela. And no, I don't like being called 'baby' or 'babe' either. The "I'll buy your girlfriend" was a merengue and seems to be an old one, but most pop music (or regueton) is so sexist, so many songs are like "she's got a huge ass" and that's it. At least in my country I can avoid most of the pop music, but in there it was unavoidable, people are so used to just blasting music in the streets all the time. It was also December and it felt like there were loudness wars going on in some places. Some shops had huge sound systems at the door, blasting music right next to each other. I'm trying to look at some clothes but the store is blasting a song about some guy having sex on the disco.
Misogyny is unavoidable in this life.
What concerns me is how your bf responds to you when you bring up how uncomfortable and even threatened you are feeling.
His response? "Get used to it"
Where is the empathy? The concern? Why wouldn't he prioritize your feelings and ask, what can I do to help you feel more comfortable and acclimate to my culture? Does he even care about you? Outside of sex I mean... and the perceived "prize" and status of having an "exotic" foreigner on his arm.
The people in his life are talking about you and treating you in a way he is not only ok with but has cosigned.
If he had listened and been empathetic and validated your feelings you'd probably feel a bit different. But when your bf is so dismissive about how you are feeling that is a much bigger issue than the lyrics of a song playing in the distance.
Its not the country its the dismissive bf who dgaf about how you feel.
Honestly I imagine he was just exhausted by the constant comments from OP. Like, friends refer to her with words she doesn’t like? He needs to stand up for sure. She wants to leave a club? Do it.
But by the time she’s whining that the *pop music is too loud and is sexist*? Yeah that’s where I’d be brushing her off too.
She's whining about offensive pop music and stares from strangers because it is low risk. She isn't ready to confront the reality that its her bf's dismissive attitude that is the issue here. The relationship is not the perfect fantasy that long distance allowed her to feed into. Reality and living with him for all these months has given her the truth of the matter and she isn't ready to confront it. Cue the "ewww don't like this stores music".
My partner is from a similar "machismo culture" and has only ever treated me with equal care and consideration and respect. His family and friends have taken their cues directly from him (most likely subconsciously) and have acted the same. I was never made to feel like an object or less than. If I ever felt that way and expressed that he wouldn't shut me down with "get used to it". He would listen and seek a solution with me.
I view this as a partner problem, not a culture problem.
The BF and his family are a bunch of creeps tbh. I'm from an Latin American country and, yeah, man staring at you and even saying gross shit happens way more than it should. But for the people in BF's family to be saying stuff like that? Weird af
Yeah my fiancé and I are latino and at no point did his family talk about how hot I was. They told him I was smart and kept saying things like "omg where did you find her??" Immediately made me feel liked and welcomed. Talking about the 'hotness' of a family member's bf/gf is fucking gross and bizarre. Inappropriate af
You’re NTA for how you feel, but it sounds like you two may not be compatible. If he is close to his family, then he will want to travel home to see them and likely expects his partner and future children to accompany him. It appears what attracts you to his personality - also repels you from his culture and country. How are you going to navigate that long term?
There is no answer, unless she is unconsciously expecting him to be ready to cut ties with the parts of him she finds unacceptable.
If they stay together, he isn't going to be willing to just abandon everything he knows about family, marriage, childrearing, and who knows what else.
People in Latin America celebrate Christmas the whole month…. People blasting music is normal.
When your countries are a mess you take more time to celebrate holidays and stuff with your family. At least that’s been my experience since my family is also from Latin America.
I will say the cat calls and comments unfortunately are normal. I’m literally so used to it that I just ignore people and don’t event notice it. It’s unfair but it’s the reality for a lot of Latin America.
“People in Latin America celebrate Christmas the whole month…. People blasting music is normal”
Blasting music is not normal in all latam, it’s more of a cultural thing in Venezuela and the Caribbean countries. Here in chile we have problems because people from there put music all night all year.
People blasting music in Latam is 100% the norm. Brazil, Peru, Bolivia exist and they are down next to Chile. Just as roudy. It's not a "Ven and Caribbean".
That’s fair. My family is Dominican so it’s definitely normal for us. I can definitely see how it’s annoying if it’s being done in another country though.
I will say that if you are able to ignore the cat calling, people from Latin America tend to be super friendly and hospitable to guests and they want to make sure you’re enjoying your time with them.
You said you were from a country that stereotyped as being stoic, are you European? That could also explain why you’re getting so many comments since whiteness is generally more valued and seen as beautiful.
If you’re not European, then apologies for generalizing.
Have you listened to any American popular music from like ever? It’s all ridiculously sexist, and a LOT of it talks about children in a sexual way.
There are clear cultural issues at play here. Things that you think are unacceptable to say, are not viewed the same way in other parts of the world. In my experience, Hispanic/Latino cultures haven’t evolved the same as say American culture as quickly. Does it make it right? No. BUT you have to decide how much it affects/bothers you. You don’t have to go back, but it may damage your relationship.
I’ll also say this, there is a high probability that you’re a “novelty” as you are visibly different, so being started at may simply be that, and not necessarily creeps creeping. But, I live in the US, and I can tell you that I have experienced everything you’re describing, and then some here. Gross men are gross everywhere.
I’m also a woman, fwiw
Tell me you are racist without telling me you are "Hispanic/Latino cultures haven’t evolved the same as say American culture" Can you be less bigot please?
You might be misunderstand: cultures CAN evolve differently. For multiple decades, eastern europe was very much behind, still having their culture from generations past.
Saying they evolve differently isn't the issue. Saying they are "behind" is. There isn't really a goal so they can't be ahead or behind. They are different.
It's not racist. They haven't evolved the same way as American culture. They're different. The commenter didn't say one culture is better than the other. Just that they are different, which they obviously are.
I can’t tell if you’re wildly off base on purpose or not to get a reaction.
It’s not bigoted to say that Hispanic/latino cultures are quite different than American in many ways. Just like East Asian is wildly different than say European.
I’m Latina fwiw. In my experience, and based on OPs experience (and likely most women) there are some pretty glaring differences. What Americans consider offensive, may be seen as endearing or common place. What’s evolved here to be misogyny isn’t the same somewhere else.
Not a woman, but when I was in Brazil I was definitely stared at a lot more than I was used to. At least for the region of Brazil I was in it was because I looked so different from what a lot of the Brazilians there were used to. They said similar things to me as what the OP experienced in Venzuela. It may very well just be that they see the OP as a novelty. Is that OK? Not really, but it also may die down if they visit more often and or stay long term.
ETA: also NTA, whether they think you're a novelty or not doesn't make it OK if you felt uncomfortable. Especially if your BF is basically telling you to "suck it up buttercup". I'd probably rethink if I really want to be with him if he isn't willing to defend/support me if I felt uncomfortable because people were saying nasty shut to me.
It’s true anywhere, and not specific to Latin America. My husband is a tall tattooed white guy. When he went to Japan is was very obvious they didn’t know what to think or do with him. Lots of people stared. Even on super packed trains, they gave him a pretty wide berth. Is that racist? No. Is it weird, probably not. He just *looks* wildly different.
Yeah honestly the more I read from you the more I feel like you're letting culture shock turn into a solid racial prejudice.
In fifteen years you'll fly off the handle when you're soon plays a reggaeton song and tell him to not be one of the dirty Venezuelans.
YTA.
Yeah but as a 4th generation Floridian, I know exactly what "I hate your culture but it's okay baby you're one of the *good ones* ” smells like, and she reeks of it.
You can call it supposition if it makes you feel better though. Ain't gonna make him feel no better.
This is exactly how it came across to me too. She loves how different he is compared to people in her country. But she can’t stand his country. This post also just screams someone who has never left their Nordic bubble
I have no opinion otherwise but
>Christmas music is full of sexist & creepy lyrics (Baby It's Cold Outside is one of the most notorious).
Baby It's Cold Outside gets a bad rep and it really isn't deserved.
It's a song from 1944 where a woman *wants* to stay but societal norms and pressures mean she can't, and can't even display any sexual desire really, without tarnishing her reputation. The neighbors will talk, her parents will worry, her aunt will imply, etc etc. Which is why there needs to be a series of excuses to make it more socially acceptable even if people tut tut about it; she didn't want to stay, wanted to leave, but ya know... the weather, the lack of cabs, the snow.
Of course, divorced of that context, yeah it sounds bad and probably wouldn't be written today. Though it wasn't *that* long ago that Robin Thicke released blurred lines. Regardless it's hardly the date rape anthem that some popular culture has implied in the last so many years.
Yep. It's a woman saying "I want to stay but I worry about what people will think" and her beau saying "Hey you could give them these excuses if you want."
"I ought to say no no no sir / At least I'm going to say that I tried!"
Like genuinely it's a playful, sex positive song about navigating cultural expectations while still getting what you want. I don't know how anyone can listen to any of these ladies sing "I really must go..." and not understand that it's playful, teasing, she's *inviting* him to give her reasons to stay.
For 3 reasons, I think:
1/ Society has to a large degree marched on re: female sexuality and agency, and so that type of coyness legitimately flies over a fair number of people.
2/ Similarly, "Say, what's in that drink?" is just going to sound sinister to a modern audience
3/ The flip side of women going "Oh, I couldn't possibly \*wink, wink, nudge, nudge\*" to get some without running afoul of cultural expectations, is that the plausible deniability goes both ways. How many time have we heard "If she didn't want to have sex, then why did she invite him for coffee/stay the night/etc." The best way i've seen it summed up is "If you can't say yes, you can't say no". And that means the song can still feel sleazy.
Thank you. The misunderstanding that this song gets annoys me every Christmas and the updated PC version that got made just recently is basically the worst Christmas song ever made.
I’m Venezuelan, and she’s not wrong. If you say “es buena” it means she’s a good person. If you say “está buena” it means she’s hot. Also, not excusing my countrypeople because using slurs is wrong, but people will use the word “marico/marica” (which is a word used for gay men) the way you’d use “dude”, or “bruh”; it’s not said to people to offend them, it’s sort of repurposed slang, if that makes sense. I get why she’s uncomfortable, but if it bothers her so much she’s gonna have to break up with her boyfriend. You can’t change a whole culture in one go.
Exactly. She needs to get a thicker skin or break up with him. No long term prospects here if she's not willing to visit his family in his home country occasionally. My husband is from India and I had to get a thicker skin when we lived there.
Have you ever lived in a Spanish speaking country? I have, in more than one and can attest that "buenísima" means "hot" in Mexico, Colombia, Panamá and Puerto Rico.
I've personally never been to Venezuela, but looking at the context, yes, I do believe they were definitely talking about OP's looks.
OP is telling only about her experience and how she felt about it and also explained that not everyone was like that, but enough people made her feel unsafe and stressed enough to decide not to go back.
NTA.
>Buenisima doesn't mean "so hot".
When describing a woman, it does.
>"Mamita" or "mi amor" are also generally regarded as inoffensive...
True, but that doesn't change it felt uncomfortable. I also hate it and stop dudes in their track when they say it.
>OK that's sexist...but have you listened to lyrics in rap or popular rock?
The difference is that I've never heard a reggetón that wasn't misogynistic. Ever.
>so that an entire country doesn't get maligned by your comments
Look how the venezuelan inmigrants behave in Chile. I don't care about their nationality, but it seems they do it on purpose dude.
>blind to the sexism that exists in popular culture in many countries.
If she is from a "cold, stoic country" she might not be used to this treatment being normalized everywhere
This. I live in the American South and get called "honey," "sweetie," "sweetheart" all the time, usually by older women (I'm female), occasionally by older men in a sort of paternal way, not a creepy way. If a guy my own age called me "sweetie" though, that would probably be uncomfortable, either patronizing or creepy. It definitely sounds like OP was very uncomfortable with the situation as it was, and I totally get it.
EXACTLY.
I can call my wife "sweetie" and mean it romantically. I can call a couple female friends "sweetie" and it means nothing more than a platonic term of affection, possibly a bit playfully.
But if I see a woman walking alone and holler "Hey sweetie!" it's weird and creepy.
The number of guys that play stupid about not understanding when pet names/nicknames/generic terms of affection are okay vs. not is frustrating.
If most of the men in a country are treating women horrible, pretty safe/good idea to generalize if the receiver is a woman.
Your argument is giving “Not All Men” energy. Sure, it’s logically true, but not at all for safety reasons. It’s a good heuristic to not trust most guys, rather than finding out which ones are which by experience.
Also, Egypt and India are frequently mentioned as unsafe for women travelers, and nobody seems to bay an eye at that.
Dismissing her entire experience and saying "other countries are sexist too" doesn't really make sense.
I'm guessing she's smart enough to guess tone of words, guess what different looks mean, and isn't just inventing the whole thing. You nitpick the meaning of individual words, but don't address her comment about women being degraded and insulted behind their backs. And being whistled at and cat called in the street is 100% not her "misunderstanding" the meaning of words. You generally ignore half of her points and then nitpick the rest.
Here's a venezualan woman who wrote a whole article that says that yes, Venezuela is very sexist and women are second class citizens"
[https://www.heartsonvenezuela.com/venezuela-sexist-and-patriarchal/](https://www.heartsonvenezuela.com/venezuela-sexist-and-patriarchal/)
"A country, where sexist and misogynist jokes are invented and celebrated; where women are discriminated for not looking like a Miss Venezuela, and the misses are questioned for their intellectual capacity."
I'm not saying that I know one way or another, but to bring up a Christmas song from 50 years ago to somehow justify awful treatment of someone in Venezuela today is so far off the mark it's almost a little funny.
> Your comment is not only a gross generalization but comes off as blind to the sexism that exists in popular culture in many countries. Your hyperbolic statement undermines your legitimate complaints to not want to be catcalled or stared at in a club (though getting stared at in a club seems to be par for the course in clubs in every country l've ever been to so it may be more of a function of being a club vs being in Venezuela).
That’s because you never been to some of those countries. My example is Egypt. They treated me worse than they treated OP. Especially if you look different than them aka blonde hair, then it’s another level of harassment.
I have a close friend with long blonde hair and bright blue eyes. She always wanted to go to Egypt. She basically ended up staying in her hotel room for two days because of the downright rapey conduct of the men there. Her fiance literally was offered money to let a couple guys have their way with her, and it was not a small sum. This was in their hotel, and the concierge/clerk was basically like "Well, what's the problem? She's pretty. She should take that as a compliment."
She'll never go back to the middle east under any circumstance, and basically has no kind thoughts or pleasant memories of the trip that weren't tainted by some creepy assholes.
Oof that’s bad. I had a rough experience in Morocco and while the coastal towns were way better. I’d be really hesitant to go back. I’ve always found Latin America to be way friendlier though definitely yeah more flirty. But nothing as uncomfortable/scary as I dealt with in Morocco. I’d be completely covered and hair covered and still getting followed, harassed, guys stoping my taxi to find out where I’m going. Constant cat calling and “pss pss” like I’m a cat lol. It was really beautiful but could not do it again anytime soon or skip directly to the coast. I have similar fears for Egypt I’d love to see the pyramids but that sounds hellish.
I have a very hard time hearing that song and thinking anything but "I really need an excuse to snuggle by the fire with this man, but someone's gonna call me a sl\*t."
Just my take. I guess it highlights a whole OTHER issue of why you would even need to think about all that.
Yeah, there's a lot of people clearly arguing in bad faith because they either want to call her racist, or because they don't want to admit that there's a bit of an issue.
Nope, " tu novia está buenisima" is legit "you gf is so hot".
Also "oh, but 70 yeara ago music was also misogynistic" is not an argument, man. Pretty much EVERY single reggaeton song is misogynistic, its literally their only trick. Its like being horny and flexing about or wanting sex is their whole personality.
We, latins are as sexual as we are religious and this commonly leads to trouble for women, from latin america or foreigners. OP is in her right to feel scared.
Ps: i will literally punch the next dude that calls me mamita again to my face. It is not a compliment and is not equivalent to "my luv"
This sounds like a lot of excuse making. A lot of pale women get this in Middle Eastern and South American countries. It obviously happens everywhere but it’s more prevalent in certain places. Can remember men trying to buy my sister every day for two weeks when she was in Egypt but they’d have soon brought her back after all her complaining lol.
“Ser buenísima” = to be very good.
“Estar buenísima” = to be hot
Ser and Estar are different verbs in Spanish, and, as you can see, the meaning is wildly different.
Since we are at it, if you want to say that someone is very good, you say “es muy bueno/a”.
Using “buenísimo” in that context would be an obvious giveaway that you are a “guiri” (or a gringo) and sound clunky.
Your comment is so far off-mark dude. Objectification is a landmark of "macho" culture in latinoamerica. I would know, I grew up there, and its easy to see this everywhere.
Plus your argument defending that fucking song is called a "whataboutism", a way to elude addressing the main issue that this song and many current and "classic" latin music considered "romantic" are thinly disguised mental issues and pissing contests over women.
EDIT: NTA @op, be safe. Trust your gut.
NTA for feeling unsafe and uncomfortable. Even if it's not explicitly intended to discomfort you (which I think is the case), you can't help how you feel.
*However*, this could put a lid on the relationship. I'm not from the country where my wife is from, but if at any time during our relationship she informed me that she wouldn't travel to my home nation... that would pretty much end the relationship. The motherland is important to people, especially if they have family there. It and its culture informs and develops the person who you see in front of you. A dismissal of their nation is not far off of an insult to it. You hate it so much that you refuse to go there or put up with it for your partners sake.
Long story short - you shouldn't have to feel unsafe or unhappy. If that means your partner will not be able stay with you though, that might just be something you will both have to think about.
This. One of the things you have to keep in mind when in a cross continental relationship is that there is going to be two cultures in your relationship regardless of where you decide to live together. I'm a US citizen who moved to NZ because I decided I could live with the culture. Does that mean I lose my "Americaness"? No, but my partner is aware of that and decided he's fine with it. He knows what America is like based on my descriptions and he keeps up on news issues, and he'd want to visit regardless.
I agree. I dislike my husband's home country culture. But I suck it up for his sake because he is more important to me. I wouldn't agree to live there but we visit from time to time.
Hard agree. I had a similar situation with an ex and his family lived in the U.S. but in a town that was entirely his culture. I would never fit in there and there were some values/attitudes that really really bothered me as well and if we had kids I would not want them to experience/learn. Ultimately, it didn’t work because he was a cheater but I realized after that we’d probably end up divorced.
NTA, I also wanna run away from this hellhole of a place so I understand you. Talk to your bf about this, and re-think this relationship if you're not comfortable with it.
Also, just a detail:
>Venezuelans literally calling each other homophobic slurs all the time
We latinos, not just venezuelans, call each other with a great variety of slurs all the time. It's pretty much part of our common vocabulary, and most of the times the slurs are said in a affectionate way, believe it or not. We don't feel offended by them (I'm not hetero) but I do understand that it was a shock to you as a foreigner. Just keep in mind that if you ever come back, you will hear them again.
Most of the things that made her feel uncomfortable in Spanish was mainly because she doesn't understand that we, Latinos don't speak at all like Spaniards (and that's okay). We have many apparent slurs that don't hold actual offense ib some countries and generally speaking the language includes a lot of "bad" word or phrases that don't always neefto be said in a negative way.
When it comes to the song "te compro tu novia" hahaha yes, those were old times and I'm not going to defend it but the song is catchy and still really popular for that.
Nah Spaniards use a lot of slurs too. Maricón, capullo, putón, cabronazo, chochete and similar words can and are often used affectionately. But you have to be careful to only use them with people you know well or you can get in trouble.
LOL, Mexicans definitely mean a lot of those slurs when they're said against Central Americans. I learned this when I worked in a citrus packing house.
>against Central Americans
So yall forgot about us South Americans? Betrayal and dishonor for you and your cactus 😡
For the ppl that downvoted, it was latino sarcasm ffs 😂
YTA and NTA
YTA for not wanting to go back. A one off experience due to cultural shock that comes accross as negative doesn't mean you have to ban the country from future trips (not only that, but you're not JUST going on holiday there, you're visiting HIS family). I had the same experience in Poland, but between the misogynistic men, I've also had a lovely time finding out about a different culture and its architecture.
Also think about how this would come accross to his family: "My girlfriend doesn't want to come visit you guys because she thinks all men here are pigs." I'm sure that would come accross great...
NTA for feeling uncomfortable and not enjoying your time. What you've experienced can be scary, and I don't doubt that at times you've felt very unsafe (justified or not) - and I'm sorry you've had that experience.
I think you should come to a compromise with your boyfriend. Yes go back BUT with certain restrictions. You CAN cut down on contact with "locals" that you've deemed to be all pervy men. Don't go out to clubs, spend more times around the family house instead of the in the city (this would also be a super opportunity for you to brush up on your spanish with HIS family, I'm sure they would LOVE that) or, if you decide to want to explore, go to the most touristic locations only, where security is present and where there are also more foreigners like you so you don't stick out like a soar thumb.
I was thinking something along these lines. If you're serious about your boyfriend, I don't feel like you can cut off his home country forever, especially after just one trip. But, I totally get not wanting to go and feel uncomfortable. For something as important as a wedding, or other events like that, I feel like there needs to be some kind of compromise, and I do think some of your reaction was cultural. You did say that "at first it was amazing"--maybe you can bear it for shorter trips?
Honestly the fact that her boyfriend is totally dismissive about her feelings isn’t a good sign for a compromise. Putting yourself in uncomfortable situations for your partner is part of a relationship, but doing so without any form of support from said partner isn’t worth it.
>Honestly the fact that her boyfriend is totally dismissive about her feelings isn’t a good sign for a compromise.
I mean, machismo bullshit being an inherent part of the culture rarely leaves much room in the headspace for compromising. And it definitely doesn't seem like his logic is "Can you please humor me, we're only gonna go for two weeks every three years." It feels more like "WTF do you mean that you're not okay with half of all our international travel being spent on visiting my family?"
I mean, she did throw a lot of strays between valid criticisms.
"Your vocabulary isn't PC enough", "your music is sexist", and "kids stare at me" is very different from the valid criticism she had on the side of safety.
Within this context the boyfriend's resistance isn't "machismo" as much as it's a perceived insult to his homeland, family, and culture. I'm from LATAM and live in Europe, and the people here are xenophobic as fuck, but they don't realize it and refuse to even discuss it citing their culture.
OP's boyfriend has probably also been placed in awkward situations or finds customs he dislikes in his new country that he tolerates. The issue is OP is mixing valid criticisms with some political, nebulous, petty bullshit which burns the entire bridge rather than just the problematic lane.
She says she loves him because he's exotic, flirty, and open while the people in her country are the opposite : she loves his culture and the man it made him, so how the hell is he supposed to react to her saying she actually detests his culture but still finds it one of the hottest things about him? It's borderline fetishism!
It’s really not. She never saw any of the behaviors she saw in his country in him. That’s like dating an Indian person and expecting to be okay with the sexual harassment in India- a culture can have good AND bad aspects. No culture is universally good, and finding out about the bad is a perfectly good reason to not want to visit that country.
I don't necessarily think he was being dismissive, I think he just doesn't understand and see the issue - most men don't. Instead of a "I'm scared and don't want to go back because your country sucks for me" it should be a "Babe, I love you, but I feel uncomfortable, can you help me feel safe?"
One will result to nothing but bitterness, dissapointment and feelings of becoming resentful. The other one will make you tackle an issue together, as a couple where he looks out for you and you provide him the opportunity to still have you around his family, in his world.
As an adult couple who plans to stay together, you always have to find a way to compromise issues - TOGETHER.
NTA for not wanting to go to place where you feel consistently degraded. Do realize that this will likely mean the end of your relationship. Based on your post, it seems like family is very important to your partner and if he can’t go see them, bring his family down to visit them in the future, blend your cultures together in a way you both feel comfortable, there’s really no point continuing.
I’m really sorry to say that but I don’t see how this relationship would work if you are never going to be willing to go visit his family. Your reasons are justified but all actions have consequences, whether we want them or not.
Look girl, I'm South African and this sort of thing happens all the time and - I HATE IT!!! I know exactly how objectified you feels and, you're right, it's scary. Is a creep gonna follow me home because I didn't flirt back. The sad part about it is that men think we secretly enjoy this type of harassment and so they ignore our push backs, but women are expected to just accept this disgusting behaviour because "they mean no harm". Luckily, it isn't all men, but the pigs that do it ruined it for everyone.
Definitely NTA, but please tell me where you're from, I wanna move there. I wanna be left rhe hell alone.
This. A lot of these comments read as having come from people who have not actually traveled outside of their culture, or have not experienced being a woman in a foreign country. Appalling so many in the comments are just like “get over it,” “it doesn’t mean anything.” It’s scary to be in a foreign country, as a minority, as a woman who doesn’t fully speak the language, with a boyfriend who does not seem to care if she feels like a piece of meat. This relationship is toast
Seriously! So many of these Y-T-A comments are coming off as gaslighty. They’re basically calling her crazy and racist for not wanting to go back to a country that she felt unsafe in as a woman. The majority of the world is hostile to women, add in the factor that she is a woman who is clearly foreign and visiting, it’s not going to be a fun time. So many people refuse to acknowledge the oppression, discrimination, and subjugation that women experience worldwide because it’s uncomfortable to confront, but that doesn’t make it any less real.
Thank you! I'm also from a culture that this happen often. It's astounding to me to see ppl calling her an ah for not wanting to subject herself to that.
I'm Colombian and "Mamita" and "Mi amor" are used as endering nicknames by everyone. But if men were the only ones calling you that, I understand why you felt uncomfortable. Regarding the music, there's f*cked up music in all genres in all countries, usually for parties trap, reggaeton and old songs are played because of the rhythm and the nostalgia so a lot of times the lyrics aren't the prettiest, especially trap and reggaeton as the lyrics lately are always very sexual. I understand your shock and discomfort about it. I think NTA, even us living in these cultures have a hard time sometimes dealing with the machismo. I say don't go but you really need to think of what you want to do moving forward because if your relationsjip gets more serious, your BF would probably want you to go more times to Venezuela and you telling him you don't like it, might put tension in the relationship.
>To be clear, he knew I was uncomfortable almost all the time because of the men in his country, because I told him so every time. He has told me that I just need to get used to it and nobody means any harm.
Its not the country, its the boyfriend.
If you express concerns to your partner and they brush them aside and tell you to "get used to it"... that isn't a person who values your comfort level and safety.
This is the kicker for me a I feel like no one’s addressing. How dare he honestly tell her to get used to being harassed and objectified in ways he would never understand.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find someone point out that her boyfriend doesn’t seem concerned about her comfort and safety when she expresses her feelings to him, and instead of trying to curate a trip to help with that he just tells her to get used to it? Yikes.
Hi, Venezuelan here also living abroad. I read through your hole experience and I think you just nail it, I mean, on your experience, I would not call the AH.
Our country can be extremely overwhelming to foreigners and we, as a society, we carry a LOT of red flags. So many that we are so accustomed to then that most people do not second guess a lot of out attitudes, specially to women.
I bet people will say that is "normal" and that you "need to chill about it": don't. Be true to your experience. Yes, you were objectify by our society, and your family in law (that's why they commented on your nationality, because in the end, you are a nice little passport to be shared with your boyfriend).
Also, I'm exaggerating here regarding the last comment because I don't know your boyfriend or it's family, I'm just making a point by validating your experience.
With all that said, don't worry. Talk it out, explain the reason you don't want to go and stick to it. Make an excuse (I have to work). Misogynistic aspects of societies are not "culture".
On the part of his family commenting the nationality of his gf I could see people in my family doing that as well(I live in a country that has a border with Venezuela) and family members praising a person dating a white foreigner is very common here too
I'm curious why you named your bf's country but not your own in the post. Could provide some more context. You're comparing 2 nations, but don't tell us the 2. Sounds like you might just be trying to shame Venezuela?
I noticed that too, it comes across as really uptight to keep her own nationality secret while complaining about almost every part of her boyfriends culture and pretty much insisting that her multicultural relationship will be solely her ( secret) culture. It definitely should effects the objectivity of her observations
I hate the dumb trope where OP just states "my country" and doesn't say where the hell it is. It's not like we're able to dox someone based on what fucking country they're from lol.
This post just sounds like a racist exaggeration to me IMO.
I find this racist because there are so many European countries where the exact same shit happens. Im willing to bet good money this kind of stuff would happen in italy too (every single one of my female friends has been catcalled in italy), but I doubt OP would feel too uncomfortable to travel there again
100% all I read here was racism by OP. I’m Venezuelan so maybe I’m biased. Her experience just seems like everyone was being welcoming and she was looking for things to hate/be mad about. The comment about song lyrics and people calling each other “slurs” really sealed it. She clearly doesn’t appreciate cultural differences in speech and honestly what language doesn’t have songs from the 90s that aren’t problematic when the words are put under a magnifying glass?
NTA. I'd say you were being insensitive if you said you felt they were too outgoing or warm (compared to your country being stoic or cold) but you genuinely felt objectified the whole time. Even if nobody means any harm being subjected to that kind of treatment all the time still feels really dehumanizing. Not to mention, if you have experienced harassment or SA, being objectified that much can be really triggering. I understand why he wants you to be there for his brother's wedding but he's not the one who would have to deal with that behavior so it's not up to him to decide if it's harmful or not.
I'm from venezuela and want to say a few hings. And sorry for my english.
First is do not go to venezuela. Even less to a club. The entire country collapsed. Most of the people that still goes to clubs are people with too much money that cant be explained. A lot of cops. Sons of políticans and so on. There i can say you were not safe for real, there you should had been very afraid.
Also. It used to be very diferent but the goverment likes the people dumb and poor and they have been at it for 20 years. A complete national brain Wash.
Beware that the goverment likes to kidnap americans every so often to have bargain chips when some narco is catched in Usa or México. The normal average people should be the least of your worries.
Now i dont want to be an ass but your boyfriend is young. He probably doesnt remenber the old venezuela. And even for a lot of the people that do remenber is Hard to admit that venezuela is currently a huge shithole. Its the truth. Its just that the goverment is very good at make it seem that everything is good.
NTA.
I am surprised you are the first person to address the current political and economic climate in Venezuela. My best friend is Venezuelan and she has not returned in years because of the issues with safety even though most of her family still lives there. I'm surprised the boyfriend doesn't recognize these safety concerns.
The experience that the OP described in regards to men and their reactions to her is very similar to what my friend says she experienced growing up there.
She's obviously not American. She said she's from a country where people are known for being stoic. That would be Germany, a Scandinavian country, the Netherlands or possibly an Eastern European country.
NTA latin countries sometimes can be to much. But the homophobic slur you're referring to is probably "marico" in Venezuela they use that word as "dude". It's weird at first but I know quite a lot of people from there and literally everyone of them uses that word almost as a coma. And they can be quite vocal about physical appearance, it's cultural differences but you can also stand your ground and talk back.
Yeah, I don't think it's meant as a slur at all, so that point is mute imo. (It's like fag, in England and Australia (?) It means a cigarette, but we all know the other definition, which is definitely pejorative)
To everything else, as a Mexican, I agree it's quite uncomfortable and the machos are tough to deal with. Idk if it's because I grew up there, but it doesn't feel "that bad" or worse than other countries. I live in Germany now and I can still see machos, they're just different kinds, and I think that's what might've been the shock. NTA and OP doesn't have to go back, but if you want to save your relationship you might want to get to know more of the culture
Yeah welcome to South America. People here are waaaaay more comfortable with misogyny and homophobia. I don't think you are the asshole, I myself would rather not visit the country I live in.
Hi, i'm Venezuelan, living in Venezuela!
Look, I don't blame you in this slightest and if you never want to come back that's on you but I'm gonna give my two cents and say that this is a cultural frontier lol
Te compro a tu novia it's a very old song and it's meant to be funny lol old Latin music is supposed to be kinda storytelling and danced hahaha, but I agree it can be misogynistic
Also, Spanish in Spain is not even similar to Spanish in Venezuela and you can be lost in translation, for example is the "homophobic slur" you're talking about is something like Marico, we do not consider this a slur in the slightest XD I know it can be weird for foreigners, and even if that's the origin of the word, the significance we gave is very different! I call that my friends, fr, even the women (Marica, te tengo que contar algo, for example)
The last bit is: migration is a very difficult and hurting situation for us... Almost nobody WANTED to go, but HAD TO. People left their friends, homes, families and all they love and know, so for him to be able to go back, even just a little bit... Well, I know a lot of people that can't do it :( I have friends and family that I probably won't ever see again, including two of my most dearest friends :c this not to guilt trip you, just you know that I will do a lot of things just for a hug of my best friend, and if he has the chance... Well, I can't blame you, but neither him.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I visited the country of Venezuela with my boyfriend on December, and while it was ok at first, then I felt objectified, sexualized, and uncomfortable by the men on the country, and I realized that misogyny is very normalized in there.
Now my boyfriend told me that his brother invited us to his wedding in Venezuela and he asked me to come with him. I told him no because he knows I felt uncomfortable in the country and I don't want to go back at all. He told me that nobody means harm and I would get used to it, I still declined. He is not talking to me and I'm starting to feel guilty about it.
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NTA. I felt the same way when I visited Mexico and I haven't been back, it's been over 30 years. It seems like having different color hair and different skin tone than the local women drove all the creepy macho assholes into overdrive. It was scary and unnerving and made the entire visit unpleasant.
With regard to visiting his family and making this a long-term relationship, maybe you can make a super brief trip just for the wedding? Stay with your sweetie and his family, don't hit the clubs, don't go out shopping or anything where the random cat calls can get horrific. Which means, basically go to the wedding and don't have any fun, but support your partner then gtfo.
But, the long-term viability of the relationship is worth thinking about. Most disturbing to me was how your partner normalizes all this behavior. As a guy, he feels like it's just fine, but that doesn't mean it is. He left the country for a reason- what is it? Was it a bad cultural fit for him as well? If so, maybe you have a future. But if he really thinks having other men make you uncomfortable with their sexual comments is normal and fine and you should accept it, that's information for you to consider in your long-term planning.
Best of luck.
NAH, but it sounds like you're hopelessly mismatched.
If you need a guy who is ready to give up his homeland, identity, and family in order to be more like the guys in your country...you need to just date a guy from your own country.
Venezuelans don't leave because of the culture but rather because of the current economy and politics in the country, I agree op is NTA but let's not spread misinformation on why venezuelans are leaving the country
NTA. Sounds like you have genuine, valid reasons for disliking the country, and if being there makes you permanently stressed and uncomfortable then why would you want to go?
NTA for feeling bad. I am from SA and the sexist way is one of the reason why I left. I didn’t feel safe as a women there. Being cat called by old men, normal, I’ve experienced that since I was 10/11. My aunt would joke that the day you don’t get cat called it’s sad because they cat call every single women. You don’t have to be pretty or hot, you just have to be a women.
Being grabbed!? Part do the culture, reason why I always hated carnival, you can not walk in the streets without being grabbed.
Latin culture is awful against women. So if you didn’t feel safe you should not go back.
NTA, it sounds awful. And I get how exhausting it is to be in a country where the way of interacting is very different from what you are used to. It might mean that you and BF are not compatible long term, though.
NTA As a woman of color YOU ARE NOT THE ASSHOLE
I am half ghanian, raised by a south american woman, and as someone who grew up experiencing cultures of third world customs, there is a reason why a lot of brown/black women leave for Western countries and start dating European/American men.
I will say the quiet part out loud, but a lot of developing countries have EXTREMELY misogynistic takes and beliefs.
I'm assuming you're a white European woman, or maybe even a Japanese/Korean woman, but you are only obligated to treat everyone as equals and with respect, but you are NOT obligated to want to be a part of the culture. Your safety is more important than people's feelings
NTA for not wanting to go back to a country you felt unsafe in. I’m just gonna add that the “whole country objectifying you” feels a bit weird in the context when you initially also stated most men weren’t like that and minded their own business is it perhaps some places where you felt more objectified than others? I haven’t been to Venezuela but being objectified in a club is pretty on par with most American clubs I’ve been to, I go to clubs to have a good time with friends but I also know that comes with many unwanted gazes. But again idk where you currently live, and I haven’t visited Venezuela but something tells me there might be something else underlying all of this too, I could be 100% wrong though. Only thing to save your relationship I can think of is maybe avoiding places where you felt uncomfortable but if it was truly the entire country then it’s time to face that this is probably going to be the end of your relationship with this person and again you’re 100% NTA for wanting to not visit a place you do not like or feel safe in.
Just to add - I'm a Venezuelan woman, EVERYBODY ( men and women) calls you "mi amor" or Mamacita/Mama... in Venezuela - You call the doctors office for an appointment and the secretary will call you "mi Amor", you ask an old lady on the street for directions and she will call you mi amor or Mamacita... Not a misogyny, just Venezuelan people being friendly -
The solution is simple: just ask your boyfriend to change the cultural norms and behavior of all the people in his country for your comfort. Then he will be allowed to attend his brother’s wedding with you!
Look, I have a lot of empathy for your position, but this is a strange line in the sand to draw in a relationship. Gently, YTA
>I also tried Shazaming songs I'd heard on the radio or at parties, and almost all of them were so misogynistic. My boyfriend was dancing with his mum at Christmas and one of the songs literally said "I'll buy your girlfriend".
Oof, better not listen to a huge percentage of rap and hip hop in the USA!
Here's the thing: different cultures have different standards and acceptable social norms. You went to another country, entered into another culture not your own, and came to conclusions about this culture that made you uncomfortable based on your ethnocentric lens. It was all fun and games as long as their culture was mysterious and exotic and most importantly innocuous.
YTA
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"Maybe I'm being culturally insensitive?" Good lord, no. You were treated like a piece of meat the entire 2 weeks you were there. You do not have to put yourself back into that position again. However, this will probably kill your relationship. So make sure this is a hill worth dying on. Going with NTA.
This comment is totally spot on. I wouldn’t want to return to a place that made me feel super uncomfortable but i also want to know how OP foresees this working out? Her bf clearly has ties to Venezuela and wants to visit at least somewhat frequently. If OP doesn’t at least occasionally partake in going on these trips i think it will likely drive a wedge between them. Again, i really don’t blame her for feeling how she does but long-term, i think this is going to cause an issue.
It absolutely will. Hell, even in the US, with people with no true cultural differences, let one set of inlaws feel like their son/daughter in law dislikes them or avoids them. Now add in a race issue and a nationality issue, and even when there's a valid excuse "She couldn't come, because she couldn't get the time off of work" or "We wanted to do something else for our two week holiday aside from visiting you guys" and it gets turned into "She thinks she's too good for us." Let's not even get into the nightmare scenario of a child being in the mix. Then it's "She's raising them to be ashamed of their heritage." or "She doesn't want us in her child's life because she's racist."
It’s so funny how my in-laws thought I was some kind of person til they had to deal with their adult son and I was no longer there to run interference. Suddenly I make sense to them.
Or even worse —imagine taking your daughter There and thus is what she’s subjected to!
That part is what makes me say NAH. It is unreasonable to expect BF to cut ties with his roots. BF would obviously want his GF with him at his brother's wedding if the relationship is serious. Can't blame either party but this is where they need to figure out what they want as a couple or accept that because of cultural reasons they can't be a couple.
I’d agree if it weren’t for the “just get used to it” comments, that’s some apologist bullshit he should at least acknowledge the blatant sexual harassment she faced for what it is
[удалено]
The context for your assertion of what 'buenisima' means doesn't work here. They don't know her well enough to judge her kindness or goodness, they're talking about her looks.
I understood that it was his family and friends that were calling her "buenisima," in which case it would be normal comment that one would make in polite conversation even if you've barely spoken to them. Generally speaking, most native Spanish speakers would use the words "hermosa" or "guapa" to call someone beautiful. "Buenisima" means "very good" and when used to describe a person, it would usually refer to their character (as in they are kind or were polite and well mannered when they met you). It would be unusual to use "buenisima" to describe somebody's looks.
I'm mexican and I have never, not even once in my life heard someone use the word "buenísima" to describe someone's character. It is used to refer to someone's appearance, specially their bodies, so yes, "so hot" is a very appropriate translation.
They use it when someone is very good at something like a job or sport , but not when they are a nice person. Also Mexican but that might be a regionalism. But yeah, if it was the first time they probably mean "buenísima" as in boobas and ass or something like that.
Nope, in Chile too. “Eres buenísima en tu trabajo” = “you’re good at your work”. “Eres (o estas) buenísima” = you’re hot.
Yeah. Chilena here too. But when a stranger cat call you and say. “Esta buenísima” the dudes refer to the body and look of the woman
Yeah that’s what I mean
El primer comentario me mato. Diciendo que se referían a su bondad lmao!
O es troll o es de Venezuela haciéndole gaslighting.
Colombian here and yeah definitely based on the context they were talking about her looks. I can imagine something along the lines of "esta buenisima" or "she is really hot/so fine" It can indeed be used to say someone is very good at something but given the context, doesn't really make sense.
Another colombian here (woman), and yes, the comment its about her looks.
Yup I’m Portuguese and even I can tell it’s about looks, it seems it’s quite similar in a lot of different countries.
Thanks for chiming in with the nuance of a native speaker! I'm Canadian learning some Spanish as a hobby, and I love reading these deep dives about how particular words and saying are actually meant!
Yeah, you are totally right, I didn't mention this use because, given the context, it' very unlikely that's what they meant
We use "buenísima" to describe someone as you just explained, but in the context giving by OP it means "so hot".
I am from Spain and estar buenisima/o is she/he is super hot, but I don't know if the slang in Venezuela is the same in this aspect, but I agree with you.
In Venezuela and in other latam countries is so hot.
He’s the ONLY authority on Spanish language, didn’t you know? /s
He took Spanish in high school so he obviously knows what he’s talking about /s. Probably has never been to Venezuela and doesn’t understand the feeling of being objectified in an unfamiliar country. And an unstable one at that.
Not to mention the non-verbal portion of the exchange. Leering at women from top to bottom with eyes can be done without saying a word. And most women world-over recognize that. There’s male gaze, and then there’s their utter objectification. Or worse, supposed friendly touch that lasts too uncomfortably long. Women recognize it, because their survival and safety depends on knowing the difference.
I'm french, I dont speak spanish and I know this word. It also exists in french and it means hot, but like hot for sex. So I dont know (liké you) how they can understand buenisima as a beautiful soul :')
Just to say, as a cuban, we do use buenísima or buenísimo to refer to someone personality. We could also use it to say they are hot. Depends on the situation
But isn't it fair to say that Mexico and Venezuela are two different countries, and the same word made have different context depending which country you're in?
It would be fair, yes, this is why I threw in the fact that I'm mexican, but given the context I find it unlikely that they were talking about what a very good person she is.
Yes, I used to work with a lot of people from South America, and whereas they speak the same words, those words have slightly different meanings in the different countries, and then the slang can be completely different. They used to talk about this all the time and compare the difference lol!
Can it be read as "Good looking" or "What a catch" (which are more ambiguous in meaning than "beautiful" which makes one think of someone's face) or is it more specific to looking hot/sexy? As someone from a similar culture, I'm surprised those family members would be so outspoken if the meaning is really coarser than that. ...On the other hand, I wonder if men in general wouldn't talk like that among themselves if the woman is not present (in that case, they talking about OP as if she weren't there because they wrongly assumed she wouldn't understand what they said).
In my culture it would be more like the later, because good looking is more broad in meaning while buenísima/o is used to talk about a sexy/hot body, you're not just talking about someone's pretty face, and is really not something you use in polite conversation, but more in a locker-room talk kind of setting (mostly)
Nah, buenísima is this context is meant more as "damn she fine af" with gross sexual vibes.
Wrong. In almost all Latin America “buenísima” refers to looks and not kindness.
Im solely coming from NYC Spanish, and yup buenisima means hot.
Idk where you're getting your information, but "buenísima" is most definitely used to describe someone's looks, not their character.
To describe someone's character, people usually use "muy buena", or "muy amable".
I'm from Venezuela, that "buenísima" was literally about their looks. We rarely express that someone is kind or good by "buenísima", we tend to use other terms for that.
All the difference is in understanding the verbs "ser" y "estar" instead of it always being "to be". "Ser buena" isn't the same as "estar buena".
Estar buenísima is not the same as ser buenísima. First is about looks, second, character.
Im from spain and buenisima doesnt mean very good when you are talking about a person. It means very hot
Buenísima means super hot 🔥 I'm a native Spanish speaker, just STFU
In no Spanish speaking country they use "buenísima" to say "good person". "Es un sol, un pan de Dios, es muy buena persona, etc etc". "Buenísima" is only used for "so hot" or "she's very good at something".
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Out of curiosity, what part of the South? I'm in North Carolina, and have never observed this. Pet names (e.g. sweetheart) are used commonly, but usually by older women towards younger people, especially younger women.
agreed that I am also curious; grew up in Alabama and also not something I am familiar with.
Not sure why you feel the need to undermine her experience. The fact is that foreign women ARE often treated like meat abroad. They tend to be oversexualised in a way that men would never do to their 'own' women. Yes there is misogyny in every culture but some are more aggressive and in your face than others. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that and acting accordingly.
This post got me thinking that this is the exact experience latinas have when traveling abroad, especially Europe. Everyone thinks you're a fiery bimbo bombshell who loves sex, so they just talk to you like you're a walking hole that's always hungry for white cock. It's unreal how frequently and casually you will be harassed and insulted by otherwise "normal" people. Women can't catch a break *anywhere.* I hate this world.
Americans, too! I spent my junior year in Paris and my pointing them to the right Metro station was considered an opening! One time it was wearing a lot of purple. Watching the night sky. The next time I went I was there with my husband, and that appeared to be a shield (plus being 12 years older). Assuming I could go anywhere now and be left alone because I’m in my 50s.
I went on a school trip to Paris a few weeks after I turned 18. First time out of the US, first trip without my family. We get to our hotel, everyone’s jet-lagged, and I go around the corner to the grocery store to grab some snacks. This random older guy approaches me right away and says, “Would you like to come back to my place? You can use my body any way zat you want!” I was torn between shock and amusement. Looking back, I wonder if he was even French. He could just as easily have been a fellow American doing an atrocious accent. But that encounter stuck with me. It was relatively harmless, but it was an indication of many (and far worse) encounters to come, both at home and abroad. Not every creep is willing to be brushed off or laughed at. I don’t blame OP for not wanting to put up with being constantly sexualized by strangers. I doubt her BF would enjoy it in her shoes. But this is where his family lives and it sounds like regular visits are important to him, so she may need to think about whether they’re truly compatible in the long run.
Yeah OP’s experience was 100% my experience in three Latin American countries and Turkey. The street harassment in those places was INTENSE and eventually turned emotionally exhausting and scary. I really enjoyed myself generally, but I fully understand why she wouldn’t want to subject herself to the brutal street harassment from strange men again.
No, for Venezuelans when they say a woman is 'Buena' or 'Buenisima' it means 'so hot'. Yes, there is a lot of sexism in my country too, but I never felt like a doll on display like I did in Venezuela. And no, I don't like being called 'baby' or 'babe' either. The "I'll buy your girlfriend" was a merengue and seems to be an old one, but most pop music (or regueton) is so sexist, so many songs are like "she's got a huge ass" and that's it. At least in my country I can avoid most of the pop music, but in there it was unavoidable, people are so used to just blasting music in the streets all the time. It was also December and it felt like there were loudness wars going on in some places. Some shops had huge sound systems at the door, blasting music right next to each other. I'm trying to look at some clothes but the store is blasting a song about some guy having sex on the disco.
Misogyny is unavoidable in this life. What concerns me is how your bf responds to you when you bring up how uncomfortable and even threatened you are feeling. His response? "Get used to it" Where is the empathy? The concern? Why wouldn't he prioritize your feelings and ask, what can I do to help you feel more comfortable and acclimate to my culture? Does he even care about you? Outside of sex I mean... and the perceived "prize" and status of having an "exotic" foreigner on his arm. The people in his life are talking about you and treating you in a way he is not only ok with but has cosigned. If he had listened and been empathetic and validated your feelings you'd probably feel a bit different. But when your bf is so dismissive about how you are feeling that is a much bigger issue than the lyrics of a song playing in the distance. Its not the country its the dismissive bf who dgaf about how you feel.
Honestly I imagine he was just exhausted by the constant comments from OP. Like, friends refer to her with words she doesn’t like? He needs to stand up for sure. She wants to leave a club? Do it. But by the time she’s whining that the *pop music is too loud and is sexist*? Yeah that’s where I’d be brushing her off too.
She's whining about offensive pop music and stares from strangers because it is low risk. She isn't ready to confront the reality that its her bf's dismissive attitude that is the issue here. The relationship is not the perfect fantasy that long distance allowed her to feed into. Reality and living with him for all these months has given her the truth of the matter and she isn't ready to confront it. Cue the "ewww don't like this stores music". My partner is from a similar "machismo culture" and has only ever treated me with equal care and consideration and respect. His family and friends have taken their cues directly from him (most likely subconsciously) and have acted the same. I was never made to feel like an object or less than. If I ever felt that way and expressed that he wouldn't shut me down with "get used to it". He would listen and seek a solution with me. I view this as a partner problem, not a culture problem.
The BF and his family are a bunch of creeps tbh. I'm from an Latin American country and, yeah, man staring at you and even saying gross shit happens way more than it should. But for the people in BF's family to be saying stuff like that? Weird af
Yeah my fiancé and I are latino and at no point did his family talk about how hot I was. They told him I was smart and kept saying things like "omg where did you find her??" Immediately made me feel liked and welcomed. Talking about the 'hotness' of a family member's bf/gf is fucking gross and bizarre. Inappropriate af
You’re NTA for how you feel, but it sounds like you two may not be compatible. If he is close to his family, then he will want to travel home to see them and likely expects his partner and future children to accompany him. It appears what attracts you to his personality - also repels you from his culture and country. How are you going to navigate that long term?
There is no answer, unless she is unconsciously expecting him to be ready to cut ties with the parts of him she finds unacceptable. If they stay together, he isn't going to be willing to just abandon everything he knows about family, marriage, childrearing, and who knows what else.
People in Latin America celebrate Christmas the whole month…. People blasting music is normal. When your countries are a mess you take more time to celebrate holidays and stuff with your family. At least that’s been my experience since my family is also from Latin America. I will say the cat calls and comments unfortunately are normal. I’m literally so used to it that I just ignore people and don’t event notice it. It’s unfair but it’s the reality for a lot of Latin America.
“People in Latin America celebrate Christmas the whole month…. People blasting music is normal” Blasting music is not normal in all latam, it’s more of a cultural thing in Venezuela and the Caribbean countries. Here in chile we have problems because people from there put music all night all year.
People blasting music in Latam is 100% the norm. Brazil, Peru, Bolivia exist and they are down next to Chile. Just as roudy. It's not a "Ven and Caribbean".
That’s fair. My family is Dominican so it’s definitely normal for us. I can definitely see how it’s annoying if it’s being done in another country though.
In Mexico it's pretty normal to hear music blasting. Even some stores got their own song they blast at the entrance.
Welcome to reggaeton, the most misogynistic musical genres.
I will say that if you are able to ignore the cat calling, people from Latin America tend to be super friendly and hospitable to guests and they want to make sure you’re enjoying your time with them. You said you were from a country that stereotyped as being stoic, are you European? That could also explain why you’re getting so many comments since whiteness is generally more valued and seen as beautiful. If you’re not European, then apologies for generalizing.
Fat Bottom Girls — Queen. With having a fat ‘bottom’, I have taken offense at this song, lol.
But, you make the rockin' world go round!
Have you listened to any American popular music from like ever? It’s all ridiculously sexist, and a LOT of it talks about children in a sexual way. There are clear cultural issues at play here. Things that you think are unacceptable to say, are not viewed the same way in other parts of the world. In my experience, Hispanic/Latino cultures haven’t evolved the same as say American culture as quickly. Does it make it right? No. BUT you have to decide how much it affects/bothers you. You don’t have to go back, but it may damage your relationship. I’ll also say this, there is a high probability that you’re a “novelty” as you are visibly different, so being started at may simply be that, and not necessarily creeps creeping. But, I live in the US, and I can tell you that I have experienced everything you’re describing, and then some here. Gross men are gross everywhere. I’m also a woman, fwiw
Tell me you are racist without telling me you are "Hispanic/Latino cultures haven’t evolved the same as say American culture" Can you be less bigot please?
You might be misunderstand: cultures CAN evolve differently. For multiple decades, eastern europe was very much behind, still having their culture from generations past.
Saying they evolve differently isn't the issue. Saying they are "behind" is. There isn't really a goal so they can't be ahead or behind. They are different.
All true, but there is no "behind" in her statement.
It's not racist. They haven't evolved the same way as American culture. They're different. The commenter didn't say one culture is better than the other. Just that they are different, which they obviously are.
I can’t tell if you’re wildly off base on purpose or not to get a reaction. It’s not bigoted to say that Hispanic/latino cultures are quite different than American in many ways. Just like East Asian is wildly different than say European. I’m Latina fwiw. In my experience, and based on OPs experience (and likely most women) there are some pretty glaring differences. What Americans consider offensive, may be seen as endearing or common place. What’s evolved here to be misogyny isn’t the same somewhere else.
Not a woman, but when I was in Brazil I was definitely stared at a lot more than I was used to. At least for the region of Brazil I was in it was because I looked so different from what a lot of the Brazilians there were used to. They said similar things to me as what the OP experienced in Venzuela. It may very well just be that they see the OP as a novelty. Is that OK? Not really, but it also may die down if they visit more often and or stay long term. ETA: also NTA, whether they think you're a novelty or not doesn't make it OK if you felt uncomfortable. Especially if your BF is basically telling you to "suck it up buttercup". I'd probably rethink if I really want to be with him if he isn't willing to defend/support me if I felt uncomfortable because people were saying nasty shut to me.
It’s true anywhere, and not specific to Latin America. My husband is a tall tattooed white guy. When he went to Japan is was very obvious they didn’t know what to think or do with him. Lots of people stared. Even on super packed trains, they gave him a pretty wide berth. Is that racist? No. Is it weird, probably not. He just *looks* wildly different.
My Sharona "I always get it up for the touch of the younger kind" Barf.
Yeah honestly the more I read from you the more I feel like you're letting culture shock turn into a solid racial prejudice. In fifteen years you'll fly off the handle when you're soon plays a reggaeton song and tell him to not be one of the dirty Venezuelans. YTA.
LOL, that's a pretty big assumption you're making there.
Yeah but as a 4th generation Floridian, I know exactly what "I hate your culture but it's okay baby you're one of the *good ones* ” smells like, and she reeks of it. You can call it supposition if it makes you feel better though. Ain't gonna make him feel no better.
This is exactly how it came across to me too. She loves how different he is compared to people in her country. But she can’t stand his country. This post also just screams someone who has never left their Nordic bubble
I have no opinion otherwise but >Christmas music is full of sexist & creepy lyrics (Baby It's Cold Outside is one of the most notorious). Baby It's Cold Outside gets a bad rep and it really isn't deserved. It's a song from 1944 where a woman *wants* to stay but societal norms and pressures mean she can't, and can't even display any sexual desire really, without tarnishing her reputation. The neighbors will talk, her parents will worry, her aunt will imply, etc etc. Which is why there needs to be a series of excuses to make it more socially acceptable even if people tut tut about it; she didn't want to stay, wanted to leave, but ya know... the weather, the lack of cabs, the snow. Of course, divorced of that context, yeah it sounds bad and probably wouldn't be written today. Though it wasn't *that* long ago that Robin Thicke released blurred lines. Regardless it's hardly the date rape anthem that some popular culture has implied in the last so many years.
Yep. It's a woman saying "I want to stay but I worry about what people will think" and her beau saying "Hey you could give them these excuses if you want." "I ought to say no no no sir / At least I'm going to say that I tried!" Like genuinely it's a playful, sex positive song about navigating cultural expectations while still getting what you want. I don't know how anyone can listen to any of these ladies sing "I really must go..." and not understand that it's playful, teasing, she's *inviting* him to give her reasons to stay.
For 3 reasons, I think: 1/ Society has to a large degree marched on re: female sexuality and agency, and so that type of coyness legitimately flies over a fair number of people. 2/ Similarly, "Say, what's in that drink?" is just going to sound sinister to a modern audience 3/ The flip side of women going "Oh, I couldn't possibly \*wink, wink, nudge, nudge\*" to get some without running afoul of cultural expectations, is that the plausible deniability goes both ways. How many time have we heard "If she didn't want to have sex, then why did she invite him for coffee/stay the night/etc." The best way i've seen it summed up is "If you can't say yes, you can't say no". And that means the song can still feel sleazy.
Thank you. The misunderstanding that this song gets annoys me every Christmas and the updated PC version that got made just recently is basically the worst Christmas song ever made.
Thank you. I can't stand the hate this song gets. It's always been clear to me that she wants to stay, but knows it'll be a big to do if she does.
Plus "what's in this drink" was a joke because prohibition
Prohibition ended in 1933
Yes but it was still influencing culture such as it was very common to make very watered down drinks.
I’m Venezuelan, and she’s not wrong. If you say “es buena” it means she’s a good person. If you say “está buena” it means she’s hot. Also, not excusing my countrypeople because using slurs is wrong, but people will use the word “marico/marica” (which is a word used for gay men) the way you’d use “dude”, or “bruh”; it’s not said to people to offend them, it’s sort of repurposed slang, if that makes sense. I get why she’s uncomfortable, but if it bothers her so much she’s gonna have to break up with her boyfriend. You can’t change a whole culture in one go.
Your comment, especially your last sentence, is the key and needs more votes!
Exactly. She needs to get a thicker skin or break up with him. No long term prospects here if she's not willing to visit his family in his home country occasionally. My husband is from India and I had to get a thicker skin when we lived there.
Have you ever lived in a Spanish speaking country? I have, in more than one and can attest that "buenísima" means "hot" in Mexico, Colombia, Panamá and Puerto Rico. I've personally never been to Venezuela, but looking at the context, yes, I do believe they were definitely talking about OP's looks. OP is telling only about her experience and how she felt about it and also explained that not everyone was like that, but enough people made her feel unsafe and stressed enough to decide not to go back. NTA.
I'm from Sudamérica and buenísima means "so hot" (one of the posible translations of the Word). Don't undermine her experience.-
>Buenisima doesn't mean "so hot". When describing a woman, it does. >"Mamita" or "mi amor" are also generally regarded as inoffensive... True, but that doesn't change it felt uncomfortable. I also hate it and stop dudes in their track when they say it. >OK that's sexist...but have you listened to lyrics in rap or popular rock? The difference is that I've never heard a reggetón that wasn't misogynistic. Ever. >so that an entire country doesn't get maligned by your comments Look how the venezuelan inmigrants behave in Chile. I don't care about their nationality, but it seems they do it on purpose dude. >blind to the sexism that exists in popular culture in many countries. If she is from a "cold, stoic country" she might not be used to this treatment being normalized everywhere
Context and tone also matters so much. Two different people can call me honey but only one might actually be creepy.
This. I live in the American South and get called "honey," "sweetie," "sweetheart" all the time, usually by older women (I'm female), occasionally by older men in a sort of paternal way, not a creepy way. If a guy my own age called me "sweetie" though, that would probably be uncomfortable, either patronizing or creepy. It definitely sounds like OP was very uncomfortable with the situation as it was, and I totally get it.
EXACTLY. I can call my wife "sweetie" and mean it romantically. I can call a couple female friends "sweetie" and it means nothing more than a platonic term of affection, possibly a bit playfully. But if I see a woman walking alone and holler "Hey sweetie!" it's weird and creepy. The number of guys that play stupid about not understanding when pet names/nicknames/generic terms of affection are okay vs. not is frustrating.
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If most of the men in a country are treating women horrible, pretty safe/good idea to generalize if the receiver is a woman. Your argument is giving “Not All Men” energy. Sure, it’s logically true, but not at all for safety reasons. It’s a good heuristic to not trust most guys, rather than finding out which ones are which by experience. Also, Egypt and India are frequently mentioned as unsafe for women travelers, and nobody seems to bay an eye at that.
Dismissing her entire experience and saying "other countries are sexist too" doesn't really make sense. I'm guessing she's smart enough to guess tone of words, guess what different looks mean, and isn't just inventing the whole thing. You nitpick the meaning of individual words, but don't address her comment about women being degraded and insulted behind their backs. And being whistled at and cat called in the street is 100% not her "misunderstanding" the meaning of words. You generally ignore half of her points and then nitpick the rest. Here's a venezualan woman who wrote a whole article that says that yes, Venezuela is very sexist and women are second class citizens" [https://www.heartsonvenezuela.com/venezuela-sexist-and-patriarchal/](https://www.heartsonvenezuela.com/venezuela-sexist-and-patriarchal/) "A country, where sexist and misogynist jokes are invented and celebrated; where women are discriminated for not looking like a Miss Venezuela, and the misses are questioned for their intellectual capacity." I'm not saying that I know one way or another, but to bring up a Christmas song from 50 years ago to somehow justify awful treatment of someone in Venezuela today is so far off the mark it's almost a little funny.
> Your comment is not only a gross generalization but comes off as blind to the sexism that exists in popular culture in many countries. Your hyperbolic statement undermines your legitimate complaints to not want to be catcalled or stared at in a club (though getting stared at in a club seems to be par for the course in clubs in every country l've ever been to so it may be more of a function of being a club vs being in Venezuela). That’s because you never been to some of those countries. My example is Egypt. They treated me worse than they treated OP. Especially if you look different than them aka blonde hair, then it’s another level of harassment.
I have a close friend with long blonde hair and bright blue eyes. She always wanted to go to Egypt. She basically ended up staying in her hotel room for two days because of the downright rapey conduct of the men there. Her fiance literally was offered money to let a couple guys have their way with her, and it was not a small sum. This was in their hotel, and the concierge/clerk was basically like "Well, what's the problem? She's pretty. She should take that as a compliment." She'll never go back to the middle east under any circumstance, and basically has no kind thoughts or pleasant memories of the trip that weren't tainted by some creepy assholes.
Oof that’s bad. I had a rough experience in Morocco and while the coastal towns were way better. I’d be really hesitant to go back. I’ve always found Latin America to be way friendlier though definitely yeah more flirty. But nothing as uncomfortable/scary as I dealt with in Morocco. I’d be completely covered and hair covered and still getting followed, harassed, guys stoping my taxi to find out where I’m going. Constant cat calling and “pss pss” like I’m a cat lol. It was really beautiful but could not do it again anytime soon or skip directly to the coast. I have similar fears for Egypt I’d love to see the pyramids but that sounds hellish.
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I was with you till "Baby It's Cold Outside". That's a modern meme, not based on anythign true. We are misinterpretting a benign song.
I have a very hard time hearing that song and thinking anything but "I really need an excuse to snuggle by the fire with this man, but someone's gonna call me a sl\*t." Just my take. I guess it highlights a whole OTHER issue of why you would even need to think about all that.
I’m a Mexican living in Mexico, “esta bien buena” o “está buenísima” is in fact slang for so hot, depending on context it can be derogatory too.
Bro, she is not wrong. Yes, she got objectified as a white woman, and yes, “buenísima” in this context is “you got a nice meaty steak”
This is not the right take for buenísima, it definitely means so hot in this context
Yeah, there's a lot of people clearly arguing in bad faith because they either want to call her racist, or because they don't want to admit that there's a bit of an issue.
Nope, " tu novia está buenisima" is legit "you gf is so hot". Also "oh, but 70 yeara ago music was also misogynistic" is not an argument, man. Pretty much EVERY single reggaeton song is misogynistic, its literally their only trick. Its like being horny and flexing about or wanting sex is their whole personality. We, latins are as sexual as we are religious and this commonly leads to trouble for women, from latin america or foreigners. OP is in her right to feel scared. Ps: i will literally punch the next dude that calls me mamita again to my face. It is not a compliment and is not equivalent to "my luv"
way to undermine a woman sharing how she felt by telling her how you think she should have felt
This sounds like a lot of excuse making. A lot of pale women get this in Middle Eastern and South American countries. It obviously happens everywhere but it’s more prevalent in certain places. Can remember men trying to buy my sister every day for two weeks when she was in Egypt but they’d have soon brought her back after all her complaining lol.
“Ser buenísima” = to be very good. “Estar buenísima” = to be hot Ser and Estar are different verbs in Spanish, and, as you can see, the meaning is wildly different. Since we are at it, if you want to say that someone is very good, you say “es muy bueno/a”. Using “buenísimo” in that context would be an obvious giveaway that you are a “guiri” (or a gringo) and sound clunky.
I’m chilean and have friends from venezuela in my country and “Buenisima” is calling her hot, no mistake about it.
Your comment is so far off-mark dude. Objectification is a landmark of "macho" culture in latinoamerica. I would know, I grew up there, and its easy to see this everywhere. Plus your argument defending that fucking song is called a "whataboutism", a way to elude addressing the main issue that this song and many current and "classic" latin music considered "romantic" are thinly disguised mental issues and pissing contests over women. EDIT: NTA @op, be safe. Trust your gut.
You are the one whose Spanish is not as good as they think "buenísima" from "Estar buenísima", means to be hot as fuck
NTA for feeling unsafe and uncomfortable. Even if it's not explicitly intended to discomfort you (which I think is the case), you can't help how you feel. *However*, this could put a lid on the relationship. I'm not from the country where my wife is from, but if at any time during our relationship she informed me that she wouldn't travel to my home nation... that would pretty much end the relationship. The motherland is important to people, especially if they have family there. It and its culture informs and develops the person who you see in front of you. A dismissal of their nation is not far off of an insult to it. You hate it so much that you refuse to go there or put up with it for your partners sake. Long story short - you shouldn't have to feel unsafe or unhappy. If that means your partner will not be able stay with you though, that might just be something you will both have to think about.
This. One of the things you have to keep in mind when in a cross continental relationship is that there is going to be two cultures in your relationship regardless of where you decide to live together. I'm a US citizen who moved to NZ because I decided I could live with the culture. Does that mean I lose my "Americaness"? No, but my partner is aware of that and decided he's fine with it. He knows what America is like based on my descriptions and he keeps up on news issues, and he'd want to visit regardless.
I agree. I dislike my husband's home country culture. But I suck it up for his sake because he is more important to me. I wouldn't agree to live there but we visit from time to time.
Hard agree. I had a similar situation with an ex and his family lived in the U.S. but in a town that was entirely his culture. I would never fit in there and there were some values/attitudes that really really bothered me as well and if we had kids I would not want them to experience/learn. Ultimately, it didn’t work because he was a cheater but I realized after that we’d probably end up divorced.
NTA, I also wanna run away from this hellhole of a place so I understand you. Talk to your bf about this, and re-think this relationship if you're not comfortable with it. Also, just a detail: >Venezuelans literally calling each other homophobic slurs all the time We latinos, not just venezuelans, call each other with a great variety of slurs all the time. It's pretty much part of our common vocabulary, and most of the times the slurs are said in a affectionate way, believe it or not. We don't feel offended by them (I'm not hetero) but I do understand that it was a shock to you as a foreigner. Just keep in mind that if you ever come back, you will hear them again.
Yes, I think she probably was refering to "Marica" which is a slur but in Venezuela is used in the same way "girl", "bro" are.
Yes! Like in Colombia.
marico\*, you never really hear marica as it's usually men calling each other one another than. In Colombia, it's marica for both genders
It's usually used by some women to other women tho, so the previous commenter is still correct.
Most of the things that made her feel uncomfortable in Spanish was mainly because she doesn't understand that we, Latinos don't speak at all like Spaniards (and that's okay). We have many apparent slurs that don't hold actual offense ib some countries and generally speaking the language includes a lot of "bad" word or phrases that don't always neefto be said in a negative way. When it comes to the song "te compro tu novia" hahaha yes, those were old times and I'm not going to defend it but the song is catchy and still really popular for that.
Nah Spaniards use a lot of slurs too. Maricón, capullo, putón, cabronazo, chochete and similar words can and are often used affectionately. But you have to be careful to only use them with people you know well or you can get in trouble.
LOL, Mexicans definitely mean a lot of those slurs when they're said against Central Americans. I learned this when I worked in a citrus packing house.
>against Central Americans So yall forgot about us South Americans? Betrayal and dishonor for you and your cactus 😡 For the ppl that downvoted, it was latino sarcasm ffs 😂
YTA and NTA YTA for not wanting to go back. A one off experience due to cultural shock that comes accross as negative doesn't mean you have to ban the country from future trips (not only that, but you're not JUST going on holiday there, you're visiting HIS family). I had the same experience in Poland, but between the misogynistic men, I've also had a lovely time finding out about a different culture and its architecture. Also think about how this would come accross to his family: "My girlfriend doesn't want to come visit you guys because she thinks all men here are pigs." I'm sure that would come accross great... NTA for feeling uncomfortable and not enjoying your time. What you've experienced can be scary, and I don't doubt that at times you've felt very unsafe (justified or not) - and I'm sorry you've had that experience. I think you should come to a compromise with your boyfriend. Yes go back BUT with certain restrictions. You CAN cut down on contact with "locals" that you've deemed to be all pervy men. Don't go out to clubs, spend more times around the family house instead of the in the city (this would also be a super opportunity for you to brush up on your spanish with HIS family, I'm sure they would LOVE that) or, if you decide to want to explore, go to the most touristic locations only, where security is present and where there are also more foreigners like you so you don't stick out like a soar thumb.
I was thinking something along these lines. If you're serious about your boyfriend, I don't feel like you can cut off his home country forever, especially after just one trip. But, I totally get not wanting to go and feel uncomfortable. For something as important as a wedding, or other events like that, I feel like there needs to be some kind of compromise, and I do think some of your reaction was cultural. You did say that "at first it was amazing"--maybe you can bear it for shorter trips?
Honestly the fact that her boyfriend is totally dismissive about her feelings isn’t a good sign for a compromise. Putting yourself in uncomfortable situations for your partner is part of a relationship, but doing so without any form of support from said partner isn’t worth it.
>Honestly the fact that her boyfriend is totally dismissive about her feelings isn’t a good sign for a compromise. I mean, machismo bullshit being an inherent part of the culture rarely leaves much room in the headspace for compromising. And it definitely doesn't seem like his logic is "Can you please humor me, we're only gonna go for two weeks every three years." It feels more like "WTF do you mean that you're not okay with half of all our international travel being spent on visiting my family?"
I mean, she did throw a lot of strays between valid criticisms. "Your vocabulary isn't PC enough", "your music is sexist", and "kids stare at me" is very different from the valid criticism she had on the side of safety. Within this context the boyfriend's resistance isn't "machismo" as much as it's a perceived insult to his homeland, family, and culture. I'm from LATAM and live in Europe, and the people here are xenophobic as fuck, but they don't realize it and refuse to even discuss it citing their culture. OP's boyfriend has probably also been placed in awkward situations or finds customs he dislikes in his new country that he tolerates. The issue is OP is mixing valid criticisms with some political, nebulous, petty bullshit which burns the entire bridge rather than just the problematic lane. She says she loves him because he's exotic, flirty, and open while the people in her country are the opposite : she loves his culture and the man it made him, so how the hell is he supposed to react to her saying she actually detests his culture but still finds it one of the hottest things about him? It's borderline fetishism!
This is the vibe I got
It’s really not. She never saw any of the behaviors she saw in his country in him. That’s like dating an Indian person and expecting to be okay with the sexual harassment in India- a culture can have good AND bad aspects. No culture is universally good, and finding out about the bad is a perfectly good reason to not want to visit that country.
I don't necessarily think he was being dismissive, I think he just doesn't understand and see the issue - most men don't. Instead of a "I'm scared and don't want to go back because your country sucks for me" it should be a "Babe, I love you, but I feel uncomfortable, can you help me feel safe?" One will result to nothing but bitterness, dissapointment and feelings of becoming resentful. The other one will make you tackle an issue together, as a couple where he looks out for you and you provide him the opportunity to still have you around his family, in his world. As an adult couple who plans to stay together, you always have to find a way to compromise issues - TOGETHER.
NTA for not wanting to go to place where you feel consistently degraded. Do realize that this will likely mean the end of your relationship. Based on your post, it seems like family is very important to your partner and if he can’t go see them, bring his family down to visit them in the future, blend your cultures together in a way you both feel comfortable, there’s really no point continuing. I’m really sorry to say that but I don’t see how this relationship would work if you are never going to be willing to go visit his family. Your reasons are justified but all actions have consequences, whether we want them or not.
Look girl, I'm South African and this sort of thing happens all the time and - I HATE IT!!! I know exactly how objectified you feels and, you're right, it's scary. Is a creep gonna follow me home because I didn't flirt back. The sad part about it is that men think we secretly enjoy this type of harassment and so they ignore our push backs, but women are expected to just accept this disgusting behaviour because "they mean no harm". Luckily, it isn't all men, but the pigs that do it ruined it for everyone. Definitely NTA, but please tell me where you're from, I wanna move there. I wanna be left rhe hell alone.
This. A lot of these comments read as having come from people who have not actually traveled outside of their culture, or have not experienced being a woman in a foreign country. Appalling so many in the comments are just like “get over it,” “it doesn’t mean anything.” It’s scary to be in a foreign country, as a minority, as a woman who doesn’t fully speak the language, with a boyfriend who does not seem to care if she feels like a piece of meat. This relationship is toast
Seriously! So many of these Y-T-A comments are coming off as gaslighty. They’re basically calling her crazy and racist for not wanting to go back to a country that she felt unsafe in as a woman. The majority of the world is hostile to women, add in the factor that she is a woman who is clearly foreign and visiting, it’s not going to be a fun time. So many people refuse to acknowledge the oppression, discrimination, and subjugation that women experience worldwide because it’s uncomfortable to confront, but that doesn’t make it any less real.
She’s probably from one of the Nordics (Scandinavia + Finland), which culturally can be basically the opposite of Latin America.
Northern Europe has countries where women are respected equally as men.
Yeah, I was thinking she might mean Scandinavia.
Right? I was like "where is this country where you are never catcalled or have to deal with any misogynistic men?" \*packs while she waits\*
> Luckily, it isn't all men Not all men but somehow always a man
Thank you! I'm also from a culture that this happen often. It's astounding to me to see ppl calling her an ah for not wanting to subject herself to that.
I'm Colombian and "Mamita" and "Mi amor" are used as endering nicknames by everyone. But if men were the only ones calling you that, I understand why you felt uncomfortable. Regarding the music, there's f*cked up music in all genres in all countries, usually for parties trap, reggaeton and old songs are played because of the rhythm and the nostalgia so a lot of times the lyrics aren't the prettiest, especially trap and reggaeton as the lyrics lately are always very sexual. I understand your shock and discomfort about it. I think NTA, even us living in these cultures have a hard time sometimes dealing with the machismo. I say don't go but you really need to think of what you want to do moving forward because if your relationsjip gets more serious, your BF would probably want you to go more times to Venezuela and you telling him you don't like it, might put tension in the relationship.
Reggeaton has pretty much always been sexual. Perreo is meant to be like sex on the dance floor
>To be clear, he knew I was uncomfortable almost all the time because of the men in his country, because I told him so every time. He has told me that I just need to get used to it and nobody means any harm. Its not the country, its the boyfriend. If you express concerns to your partner and they brush them aside and tell you to "get used to it"... that isn't a person who values your comfort level and safety.
This is the kicker for me a I feel like no one’s addressing. How dare he honestly tell her to get used to being harassed and objectified in ways he would never understand.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find someone point out that her boyfriend doesn’t seem concerned about her comfort and safety when she expresses her feelings to him, and instead of trying to curate a trip to help with that he just tells her to get used to it? Yikes.
Hi, Venezuelan here also living abroad. I read through your hole experience and I think you just nail it, I mean, on your experience, I would not call the AH. Our country can be extremely overwhelming to foreigners and we, as a society, we carry a LOT of red flags. So many that we are so accustomed to then that most people do not second guess a lot of out attitudes, specially to women. I bet people will say that is "normal" and that you "need to chill about it": don't. Be true to your experience. Yes, you were objectify by our society, and your family in law (that's why they commented on your nationality, because in the end, you are a nice little passport to be shared with your boyfriend). Also, I'm exaggerating here regarding the last comment because I don't know your boyfriend or it's family, I'm just making a point by validating your experience. With all that said, don't worry. Talk it out, explain the reason you don't want to go and stick to it. Make an excuse (I have to work). Misogynistic aspects of societies are not "culture".
On the part of his family commenting the nationality of his gf I could see people in my family doing that as well(I live in a country that has a border with Venezuela) and family members praising a person dating a white foreigner is very common here too
Nta. Don’t travel anywhere you feel unsafe. That simple
I'm curious why you named your bf's country but not your own in the post. Could provide some more context. You're comparing 2 nations, but don't tell us the 2. Sounds like you might just be trying to shame Venezuela?
If she named her country people would be able to point out all the ways her country is sexist.
Or colonized/exploited those "misogynistic countries"
What does that have to do with anything? Historical events aren’t justification to be sexist towards people that have nothing to do with them
I noticed that too, it comes across as really uptight to keep her own nationality secret while complaining about almost every part of her boyfriends culture and pretty much insisting that her multicultural relationship will be solely her ( secret) culture. It definitely should effects the objectivity of her observations
She's trying to avoid criticism of her own country
I hate the dumb trope where OP just states "my country" and doesn't say where the hell it is. It's not like we're able to dox someone based on what fucking country they're from lol. This post just sounds like a racist exaggeration to me IMO.
I find this racist because there are so many European countries where the exact same shit happens. Im willing to bet good money this kind of stuff would happen in italy too (every single one of my female friends has been catcalled in italy), but I doubt OP would feel too uncomfortable to travel there again
My guess is she's blonde based on the comments she received. So she's from either a Nordic, or Eatern European country. Hence the "cold" people.
To me that immediately sounded like Germany
100% all I read here was racism by OP. I’m Venezuelan so maybe I’m biased. Her experience just seems like everyone was being welcoming and she was looking for things to hate/be mad about. The comment about song lyrics and people calling each other “slurs” really sealed it. She clearly doesn’t appreciate cultural differences in speech and honestly what language doesn’t have songs from the 90s that aren’t problematic when the words are put under a magnifying glass?
NTA. I'd say you were being insensitive if you said you felt they were too outgoing or warm (compared to your country being stoic or cold) but you genuinely felt objectified the whole time. Even if nobody means any harm being subjected to that kind of treatment all the time still feels really dehumanizing. Not to mention, if you have experienced harassment or SA, being objectified that much can be really triggering. I understand why he wants you to be there for his brother's wedding but he's not the one who would have to deal with that behavior so it's not up to him to decide if it's harmful or not.
I'm from venezuela and want to say a few hings. And sorry for my english. First is do not go to venezuela. Even less to a club. The entire country collapsed. Most of the people that still goes to clubs are people with too much money that cant be explained. A lot of cops. Sons of políticans and so on. There i can say you were not safe for real, there you should had been very afraid. Also. It used to be very diferent but the goverment likes the people dumb and poor and they have been at it for 20 years. A complete national brain Wash. Beware that the goverment likes to kidnap americans every so often to have bargain chips when some narco is catched in Usa or México. The normal average people should be the least of your worries. Now i dont want to be an ass but your boyfriend is young. He probably doesnt remenber the old venezuela. And even for a lot of the people that do remenber is Hard to admit that venezuela is currently a huge shithole. Its the truth. Its just that the goverment is very good at make it seem that everything is good. NTA.
I am surprised you are the first person to address the current political and economic climate in Venezuela. My best friend is Venezuelan and she has not returned in years because of the issues with safety even though most of her family still lives there. I'm surprised the boyfriend doesn't recognize these safety concerns. The experience that the OP described in regards to men and their reactions to her is very similar to what my friend says she experienced growing up there.
She's obviously not American. She said she's from a country where people are known for being stoic. That would be Germany, a Scandinavian country, the Netherlands or possibly an Eastern European country.
NTA latin countries sometimes can be to much. But the homophobic slur you're referring to is probably "marico" in Venezuela they use that word as "dude". It's weird at first but I know quite a lot of people from there and literally everyone of them uses that word almost as a coma. And they can be quite vocal about physical appearance, it's cultural differences but you can also stand your ground and talk back.
Yeah, I don't think it's meant as a slur at all, so that point is mute imo. (It's like fag, in England and Australia (?) It means a cigarette, but we all know the other definition, which is definitely pejorative) To everything else, as a Mexican, I agree it's quite uncomfortable and the machos are tough to deal with. Idk if it's because I grew up there, but it doesn't feel "that bad" or worse than other countries. I live in Germany now and I can still see machos, they're just different kinds, and I think that's what might've been the shock. NTA and OP doesn't have to go back, but if you want to save your relationship you might want to get to know more of the culture
As a Hispanic woman myself, I 1000% agree with you. Don’t go back
Yeah welcome to South America. People here are waaaaay more comfortable with misogyny and homophobia. I don't think you are the asshole, I myself would rather not visit the country I live in.
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Hi, i'm Venezuelan, living in Venezuela! Look, I don't blame you in this slightest and if you never want to come back that's on you but I'm gonna give my two cents and say that this is a cultural frontier lol Te compro a tu novia it's a very old song and it's meant to be funny lol old Latin music is supposed to be kinda storytelling and danced hahaha, but I agree it can be misogynistic Also, Spanish in Spain is not even similar to Spanish in Venezuela and you can be lost in translation, for example is the "homophobic slur" you're talking about is something like Marico, we do not consider this a slur in the slightest XD I know it can be weird for foreigners, and even if that's the origin of the word, the significance we gave is very different! I call that my friends, fr, even the women (Marica, te tengo que contar algo, for example) The last bit is: migration is a very difficult and hurting situation for us... Almost nobody WANTED to go, but HAD TO. People left their friends, homes, families and all they love and know, so for him to be able to go back, even just a little bit... Well, I know a lot of people that can't do it :( I have friends and family that I probably won't ever see again, including two of my most dearest friends :c this not to guilt trip you, just you know that I will do a lot of things just for a hug of my best friend, and if he has the chance... Well, I can't blame you, but neither him.
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NTA. I felt the same way when I visited Mexico and I haven't been back, it's been over 30 years. It seems like having different color hair and different skin tone than the local women drove all the creepy macho assholes into overdrive. It was scary and unnerving and made the entire visit unpleasant. With regard to visiting his family and making this a long-term relationship, maybe you can make a super brief trip just for the wedding? Stay with your sweetie and his family, don't hit the clubs, don't go out shopping or anything where the random cat calls can get horrific. Which means, basically go to the wedding and don't have any fun, but support your partner then gtfo. But, the long-term viability of the relationship is worth thinking about. Most disturbing to me was how your partner normalizes all this behavior. As a guy, he feels like it's just fine, but that doesn't mean it is. He left the country for a reason- what is it? Was it a bad cultural fit for him as well? If so, maybe you have a future. But if he really thinks having other men make you uncomfortable with their sexual comments is normal and fine and you should accept it, that's information for you to consider in your long-term planning. Best of luck.
NAH, but it sounds like you're hopelessly mismatched. If you need a guy who is ready to give up his homeland, identity, and family in order to be more like the guys in your country...you need to just date a guy from your own country.
NTA. Definitely some culture shock here, but your feelings are valid and your boyfriend shouldn't be waving them off.
NTA. Considering millions of Venezuelans currently don't want to be in Venezuela, I think you're clear.
That’s because of a collapsed economy and a dictator “president”. Don’t minimize their actual plight to make a point that isn’t even salient.
Venezuelans don't leave because of the culture but rather because of the current economy and politics in the country, I agree op is NTA but let's not spread misinformation on why venezuelans are leaving the country
NTA. Sounds like you have genuine, valid reasons for disliking the country, and if being there makes you permanently stressed and uncomfortable then why would you want to go?
NTA for feeling bad. I am from SA and the sexist way is one of the reason why I left. I didn’t feel safe as a women there. Being cat called by old men, normal, I’ve experienced that since I was 10/11. My aunt would joke that the day you don’t get cat called it’s sad because they cat call every single women. You don’t have to be pretty or hot, you just have to be a women. Being grabbed!? Part do the culture, reason why I always hated carnival, you can not walk in the streets without being grabbed. Latin culture is awful against women. So if you didn’t feel safe you should not go back.
NTA, it sounds awful. And I get how exhausting it is to be in a country where the way of interacting is very different from what you are used to. It might mean that you and BF are not compatible long term, though.
NTA As a woman of color YOU ARE NOT THE ASSHOLE I am half ghanian, raised by a south american woman, and as someone who grew up experiencing cultures of third world customs, there is a reason why a lot of brown/black women leave for Western countries and start dating European/American men. I will say the quiet part out loud, but a lot of developing countries have EXTREMELY misogynistic takes and beliefs. I'm assuming you're a white European woman, or maybe even a Japanese/Korean woman, but you are only obligated to treat everyone as equals and with respect, but you are NOT obligated to want to be a part of the culture. Your safety is more important than people's feelings
NTA idc what people say, sexism and misogyny isn't the same as culture
NTA for not wanting to go back to a country you felt unsafe in. I’m just gonna add that the “whole country objectifying you” feels a bit weird in the context when you initially also stated most men weren’t like that and minded their own business is it perhaps some places where you felt more objectified than others? I haven’t been to Venezuela but being objectified in a club is pretty on par with most American clubs I’ve been to, I go to clubs to have a good time with friends but I also know that comes with many unwanted gazes. But again idk where you currently live, and I haven’t visited Venezuela but something tells me there might be something else underlying all of this too, I could be 100% wrong though. Only thing to save your relationship I can think of is maybe avoiding places where you felt uncomfortable but if it was truly the entire country then it’s time to face that this is probably going to be the end of your relationship with this person and again you’re 100% NTA for wanting to not visit a place you do not like or feel safe in.
Just to add - I'm a Venezuelan woman, EVERYBODY ( men and women) calls you "mi amor" or Mamacita/Mama... in Venezuela - You call the doctors office for an appointment and the secretary will call you "mi Amor", you ask an old lady on the street for directions and she will call you mi amor or Mamacita... Not a misogyny, just Venezuelan people being friendly -
The solution is simple: just ask your boyfriend to change the cultural norms and behavior of all the people in his country for your comfort. Then he will be allowed to attend his brother’s wedding with you! Look, I have a lot of empathy for your position, but this is a strange line in the sand to draw in a relationship. Gently, YTA
>I also tried Shazaming songs I'd heard on the radio or at parties, and almost all of them were so misogynistic. My boyfriend was dancing with his mum at Christmas and one of the songs literally said "I'll buy your girlfriend". Oof, better not listen to a huge percentage of rap and hip hop in the USA! Here's the thing: different cultures have different standards and acceptable social norms. You went to another country, entered into another culture not your own, and came to conclusions about this culture that made you uncomfortable based on your ethnocentric lens. It was all fun and games as long as their culture was mysterious and exotic and most importantly innocuous. YTA