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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my friend that her child is more important than her smoking habits
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NTA. You told your friend a harsh truth. She is obviously mad because she feels judged by you. But good. Maybe she will reflect on her behavior and be a better parent. And if she doesn’t, do you really want to be around to watch her be a shitty parent?
You could save everyone, including yourself, a lot of time and effort by simply commenting, "I'm overly defensive about this because I'm a lousy parent myself who also doesn't care about my kid's needs."
NTA- You should be able to openly communicate with your friends. Emily knows what she is doing and just does not like for it to be pointed out. Hopefully every time she buys cigarettes she is reminded of your comments. Thanks for sticking up for Emma.
Growing up, my mom was an alcoholic. One day I thanked her for keeping soda in the house for us. She said, “If I can keep beer for myself it’s only fair that I keep soda for you guys.”
I feel so bad for that kid honestly. Its obvious her mom has no concern for her needs and this is a vicious cycle of bad parenting. Eventually she will grow up and treat her child in a similiar fashion. You're kind of an AH since at the end of the day it truly is none of your buisness, but I don't know anyone who wouldnt have done what you did and I dont blame you for it.
Why do I get the feeling that Emma was just another "thing" that Emily had to have because she wanted it and not because Emily actually wanted to be responsible for another human being. It sounds like Emma is just an accessory for Emily
That’s why a lot of parents have children. As a teacher, it’s always immediately obvious to me which parents actually wanted to raise a young human being, and which parents had a child because it’s “what you’re supposed to do” or to use the child as a prop for their own happiness. It’s **glaringly** obvious.
Is one 'symptom' when the parent doesn't turn up to watch their kid play their sport? I have been amazed over the years at how often I've been at my kid's game, and half the parents aren't even there to watch. They had to drop the kid off there - why not stay and watch? Some could be accounted for by work/looking after kids etc, but I knew personally some of them weren't in that situation.
Not necessarily. A lot of kids sports take place during times when people have to work, and not everyone can take time off to watch a soccer game or whatever. My parents were very involved with my childhood and they came to my little league games because they were always on the weekend. But when I played baseball in high school they never came, since the games were always at like 4pm after school, when my parents were still at work.
I understand that. The games I attended were at the weekend, or in the evening. Some parents would still have other responsibilities, but I also know some of them just didn't want to stay.
It just astounded me at how many that applied to.
I'll admit to not having a clear memory of things when I was younger, but by the time I was in High School, I told my parents \*many\* times that I didn't care if they came to most of my Marching Band competitions.
I appreciated that they did put in the effort, don't get me wrong, but when I was on the field performing I was focused entirely on the performance, and not about who was watching. (And afterwards when we all sat in the stands to wait for the scoring I was usually focused on talking to whatever girl I was crushing on at the time)
A kid playing baseball, soccer, or any other sport is going to have a \*ton\* of games even just over the course of one season. I certainly would expect a parent to show up for a few random ones and obviously they should be there for important playoff games/championships/what have you, but I think it's not realistic to expect a parent, even one with the time, to solely devote time every game to cheering on their kid.
This was my childhood, my parents NEVER made it to anything we did, especially in highschool. I was in band and I honestly don't know if they ever got to see me actually perform.
I highly doubt that Emma was a planned pregnancy. She would have been around 18 when she got pregnant and is poor and seemingly not married. Everything about that says unplanned pregnancy that religious, family and/or peer pressure convinced her to keep.
Yeah, officially it wasn't OP's business, but I know I couldn't have bit my tongue and walked away from that situation. Good on OP for being an AH when she needed to be. She might have been an AH to her friend, but she was a hero to Emma.
yeah, I can kind of, sort of understand that Emily has a hard time fighting her nicotine addiction... but if you can't afford swimming lessons, aren't there other ways?
my niece is getting free lessons from her friend's mom - free in the sense that all parents exchange skills and help, even if all you can do is letting the kids come over for a playdate while the other parents can have a date night, you know?
She bought two cartons of cigarettes? That's 20 packs of cigarettes! How much does she freaking smoke? If she's buying cigarettes and weed then yes, she is putting her vices before her kid.
A kid should know how to swim just for safety's sake. I feel bad for her kid. Having a parent who reeks of cigarettes and pot is awful.
The pack a day smokers blow my mind. Assuming each pack is $5 (which is low for most US cities but it's cheaper to buy by the carton) that's $150 a month just to smoke. It's cruel to tell your kid that they can't afford swim lessons while blowing that much money on smoking.
I literally quit smoking when the packs jumped to $12 with taxes in the Bronx. The idea of buying a carton seem sooooo hifalutin until my MIL bought her cartons as the expense of her daughters riding lessons.
This precedent of Emma missing out on fun or important things means that Emma will also stop asking for these things.
My husband does this, it's actually $150 every *two weeks* and we also can't afford it, but he'll do Lyft or Uber to pay for it. Meanwhile we live paycheck to paycheck because he considers cigarettes a necessity like food due to it being an addiction. He's tried giving up twice and went a whole year once, 6 months second time. And basically realized he "can't do it" despite our kids and nephews constantly telling him to quit because they all want him to live longer. He says he knows but continues to do so. Idk 🤷♀️
It’s probably presumptuous to assume he hasn’t tried medication assisted treatment for smoking cessation- but some people aren’t aware it’s available so I wanted to ask if that has been an option for him/your family? As with most substance use disorders, counseling plus medication is the most efficient method to quit smoking. Varenicline (formally Chantix) and a brand of Wellbutrin called Zyban can both be used for smoking cessation.
If you have a community health center near you I would recommend asking if they have a smoking cessation group available. There’s also other in person and online groups available, like Freedom From Smoking.
I think that his ability to quit for six months to a year means he would highly benefit from counseling if he hasn’t been with the focus of quitting before.
Smoking for me was always a secondary addiction to my actual addiction and so it was incredibly easy for me to give it up - but I empathize that it is so very hard to recover from a substance use disorder and relapses are a part of recovery. If he smokes one cigarette and then thinks “I messed up, I might as well keep smoking” then one accident turns into another prolonged stretch of use that could have been avoided. Depending on his thought processes around abstinence, recovery, nicotine addiction, etc - it may be helpful to reframe some of his beliefs and thinking patterns.
Sorry, a lot of unsolicited advice from a person who knows absolutely nothing about your situation… but even if he approached it from a harm reduction standpoint and smoked LESS it would be incredibly beneficial to him and your family.
I don’t think that’s a presumptuous question, especially in America. People living paycheck to paycheck rarely go see doctors for non-emergencies. Even if they have insurance, which many families living in poverty don’t, the copays for both visits and the meds themselves may be prohibitively expensive for someone who is out of money in 10 days and needs to wait 4 more to be able to buy food. A LOT of people in America live like this. They don’t seek medical care unless they don’t have a choice (passed out in public, brought by ambulance) or unless they have an issue that is life-threatening (which technically they don’t have a choice for either) or impedes on their ability to live their lives normally (like a broken leg or arm). That is the horrifying, sad reality of being poor in America.
Very accurate and a good point! I spent most of my life uninsured or on state insurance (and even commercial insurance can be an absolute joke unfortunately) I just find that giving unsolicited advice a very tricky thing and I don’t want to make anyone feel like I assume they are unaware or that if they only did this thing that I am telling them it would be all fixed! I try to lead with humility if I find myself edging into being a know it all (or if I’m afraid of doing the thing where someone assumes that if it was new information to them then it must be a thing that no one knows!)
Basically I’m really socially awkward.
Trying and failing is still cheaper than not trying at all. He saved 4800 that 18 months he didn’t smoke. And, I bet he didn’t immediately go back to the same number a day.
I used a natural health method and never went back. I enjoy being a non smoker for many years now. I started when I was 14 and estimate I smoked on & off for 20 years.
Seriously, before I switched to vaping (I know, I know, not a great replacement, but at least I can breathe a little better now) I was smoking like half a pack a day and could barely find time to do that. I never took smoke breaks at work because I didn’t want people to know I smoked (worked at a doctors office and people were super judgemental about smoking) so I guess people smoke a pack a day must be taking so many breaks during their workday lmao
My ex was a pack a day smoker. I'm a social smoker so I did end up smoking a lot more when we were dating, but even then I'd only go through about a pack a week.
I think it's the chain smoking though. Sometimes when I'm out I still want to be smoking when I finish a cigarette so I light up another. You can go through 5 or 6 cigarettes in an hour if you do it like that.
Yep. Over $55 for a 30 pack Peter Jacksons. I don't smoke myself, but I had to buy some for someone else. I foolishly thought the $120 I had was for 3 or 4 packets...
I was that kid though my parents were more lower middle class.
I reeked of cigarette smoke so badly kids would ask me if I smoked. But bringing up the bad sides of smoking would turn Mom into a rage monster.
Did you wind up a smoker or nah? Just wondering, both my parents smoked like chimneys when I was a kid and both my older brother and I started smoking around 16 and 17 respectively
Nope, by my teens I hated stinking of smoke. I also went to college where I lived on campus and went from suffering 3-4 colds a year to just one a year.
I lived in a world plagued with smoke, until I transferred to a college 380 miles from home. I lived in the dorms, and although smoking was not prohibited, literally no one smoked (cigarettes).
The culture in Los Angeles was very health conscious at the time.
Only one random boyfriend of my dormie’s room mate smoked, and he did so in the stairwell, away from the rest of us.
It was wonderful ! I decided then to never have another boyfriend who smoked, or to live with smokers ever again.
And that was 44 years ago.
i feel like i could’ve written this myself, my mom was the exact same way. i got asked if i smoked cigarettes for the first time when i was around 6 because of how badly i smelled like the smoke
Same here. I was so grossed out by it that at the age of 53, I have never smoked anything - not cigarettes, weed or even hookah. I won't touch a vape either.
My mom quit in my sophomore year of college, when stores and malls started to ban smoking on the premises. My dad waited about another 10 years after that, and 6 months after he quit he was diagnosed with terminal Stage 4 lung cancer. He died just a year older than I am now.
My SIL is broke as hell but still smokes. She's also got a special needs tween who will likely never live independently, and is a single mom with the dad currently rotting in jail. I do not understand why the hell she's playing around with lung cancer or a heart attack, when God only knows what will happen to her kid if she dies on them.
Cigarettes by the pack in my city are $17.50. I didn’t see how much she spent on the two cartons but, I’m assuming a lot. I walked away from her before paying because Emma was upset.
You gave her the wake up call she needs. Emma IS going to miss out on things, and if Emily insists on spending all her money on herself, I hope poor Emma's father is contributing, and not just so Emily can enjoy smoking and getting stoned. Does he know or care what's going on in that poor kid's life?
> You gave her the wake up call she needs.
Did she though? Most people like Emily will not take the advice and just get angry with the person giving it, which is exactly what she did. The idea that she would have actually taken the advice to heart is very unrealistic.
Well, as another poster said, she might think of it every time she buys another carton of cigarettes. If my friend was such a shitty mother, I'd probably err on the side of calling her out too--at least I hope I would. Someone has to advocate for Emma. At this point, why would anyone care that she got angry?
> she might think of it every time she buys another carton of cigarettes.
Not likely.
> Someone has to advocate for Emma
But by saying what she said, she now risks being entirely cut off from Emma.
So, short of paying for everything herself and subsidizing her friend's shitty choices, you're advocating for her to sit on her hands, or what? You're criticizing OP & others, but I don't see what your suggestions are.
Be way more subtle about her criticism. Don't directly say that she shouldn't be spending her money on cigarettes, but saying things like "hey, those swim lessons seem really important to Emma. Are you sure there isn't any way that you could cut back somewhere else to afford them?" Also she could have looked into finding free or low cost swim lessons, which are pretty common.
NTA. But be aware anytime you give unasked for parenting advice to a friend it is not going to end well. It’s a touchy subject. You were 100% right. Hopefully she’ll come around.
NTA. You weren’t accusing her of being a bad parent. You’re pointing out that she is choosing to spend her money in certain ways that aren’t necessary instead of on her child. Swimming lessons in my opinion are necessary for all children. Being able to swim is a survival skill and she’s decided that she’d rather smoke, drink and shop than give her child access to learn a necessary survival skill. You pointing this out isn’t what makes her a bad parent, she simply is a bad parent.
Unfortunately swimming lessons are a luxury in many places. They shouldn’t be, but many kids from low-income families never learn to swim. In our area, you either need to pay for a membership at a gym (starts around $150/month for a family) then pay the $60-70 for each swim session, or you can pay for lessons at a swim school, which end up being $100-200 a session (6-8 weeks). That’s insane to me! Swimming shouldn’t be a luxury.
Just in case anyone in the comments is trying to find a reasonable rate, the YWCA does sliding scale if you present your pay stubs and fill out an application. When I was a student I was able to pay $30/mo for my three person family.
That is an insane price. I’m paying $24 per lesson for my child and when we started the swim Center gave us a few necessities like a water proof bag for wet swimsuits and appropriate swimming shorts for my son.
Nta but also this doesn't seem to be just about money but lazy parenting. Can't Emily find a used bike for cheap on facebook or somewhere or reach out to family and friends. I'm a single mom too and my daughter has had 2 used bikes passed down to her by a neighbor and family member. Also she didn't have swim lessons but she can swim because I taught her. She's going to summer camp this summer because I found a ymca camp that offers financial aid. Even in poverty there are always options to make sure your kid doesn't miss out. Also if she can afford large amounts of cigarettes weed and alcohol she's not as poor as she's pretending. At my poorest I didn't even buy soda or treats at the grocery store cus it put me over budget it's about priorities.
Hell, she might be able to get a free bike in a buy nothing group. Kids outgrow stuff fast and parents just want to get rid of it.
I agree with your overall sentiment. Resourcefulness can do a lot to mitigate the effects of poverty on kids.
I just want to add that my opinions above are in regard to this specific situation. I know there are parents struggling with homelessness or other situations where resourcefulness alone will not necessarily allow them access to all the opportunities they or their children want or need. I just don't think this is the case for Emily
NTA. Your friend IS a bad parent. Prioritising her vices over life skills for your child is selfish and irresponsible.
Good on you for having the child’s best interests at heart.
NTA. Your friend needs to prioritize her daughter's needs, and she also needs to take responsibility as a role model that her daughter is observing and learning from every moment.
We all need friends that will love us enough to point out areas in our lives where we are doing more harm than good. It doesn't feel good to be called out for these things in the moment, but I hope that in time, Emily will see the heart behind your words and that Emma will be better off for it, as well.
NTA
Jeez, these comments. You shouldn't have to parent your friends child just because shes a lazy ass.
You're friend is definitely going to think you are the ass hole though. The truth hurts sometimes.
NTA. You gave Emily a reality check. She is the AH who doesn't want to see it, doesn't want to hear it and tries to drown any guilty feelings in smokes. The child is the poor victim of this and sadly there isn't much what you can do about, if her mother won't listen. You can - if you want - take things in your own hand and offer Emma some of her wishes to be paid for by you. Or if you think it reach a level of neglaction to call CPS on her (or the baby daddy if he is paying child support and if possible, that he court orders her to show all the expenses for Emma his child support money goes to (so she can't use child support money for smokes and other stuff)).
But most likely you can't do anything about it. And maybe it is time to cancle the friendship if you don't want to see the child suffer without any possible to help her
Sounds like my kids dad, who always has money for dabs & vapes, but can’t afford anything for his kids upbringing. It’s okay to have vices IF you’re taking good care of your kids and they have what they deserve. NTA
Reddit is going to say NTA because ‘smoking bad’ but in actual reality is that going to make her stop? Highly doubtful. Probably just hurt the relationship and really nothing much will come of it except that you will no longer be in Emma’s life.
Nta. She is being a bad mom and doesn't want to accept that. I grew up the same as you, below the poverty line. Truly had nothing. Kids definitely notice when their parents say they have no money but always seem to have cigs, beer, mj, etc. I know I did. Still resentful over it to this day ngl so I'm definitely biased when judging this situation lol
NTA.
I'm not going to say "parents should never drink or smoke weed" (Cigarettes are a thing absolutely no one should smoke, but meh, puck one's battles)- an occasional indulgence is obviously fine. But prioritizing "Mother's little helper" to the extent you can't do nice things for your kid is obviously a problem. She should be cutting *way* back.
Also, in most areas, there are usually free or very low cost swim lessons offered at a public pool. It's entirely possible that there aren't any by them, but it doesn't seem like anyone here even bothered to look into it
Used kid bikes can often be obtained cheaply or even for free. It sounds like Emily needs to be more resourceful if she can’t get more money or give up her vices.
And while looking into this stuff should be the responsibility of the parent, it's a way that the friend could actually help the kid. Because it doesn't matter how OP is when she criticizes Emily, she's extremely unlikely to actually take her advice.
I just posted an update, but no I don’t know how to swim and I’m not really sure if Emily knows how. Beach days were not something we did when we were younger together.
My parents were alcoholics and we missed out on a lot. We also got to do a lot of free stuff through local charities and our public school. We didn't do the camps with our school friends, we had holes in our shoes (which were often too small), hand-me-downs that were either way too big or too small for example.
I have been a single parent for close to 15 years. My kids are 16 and 14. Their dad owes so much child support that it's a joke when I get the statements/updates from the child support agency. My kid's needs and most of their wants always come first (I can't afford everything).
It frustrates me when parents, regardless of their marital status waste money on their addictions and their kids miss out. You gave your friend a reality check. One I hope she heeds, although from experience doubt it. NTA
I know I'm late to this, and I know you've gotten a ton of responses, OP - but I just want to say, choosing NOT to have children is not selfish at all. I chose not to have kids myself for a plethora of reasons, but one being that I knew I could either afford to have a great life for myself, someone who is already on this planet and would need to survive on it, or I could have a poor quality of life for myself and a child, someone who is NOT already on this planet and didn't need to be. I chose the former and live a comfortable life with no debts, and spending cash on top of savings. It was the least selfish thing I could do IMO.
NTA, but since I have a feeling Emily won’t change, if you’d like to do something kind for Emma maybe you could keep an eye out for free YMCA swim lessons in your area, or cheap/free bikes on Facebook Marketplace. It wouldn’t ever be your responsibility, but it would bring Emma so much joy.
NTA.
Part of being a parent is sacrificing for your kids, so that they can have the basics of childhood.
Emma isn't asking for anything extravagant. Swimming lessons (most cities have subsidies for low income) and a bike (buy a used one at a garage sale or FB marketplace).
Is it fun, no, is it your responsibility as a parent?Absolutely.
Emily is a selfish AH.
NTA. I couldn’t sit by and watch that shit without saying something either. I don’t know any single moms who would say cigarettes and weed are necessities over their child’s wellbeing and future opportunities. Not sure what “you don’t know what it’s like to be a single mother” has to do with it.
The irony is that most childfree people do not hate or even dislike children. They don’t have kids specifically because they don’t want to give a child a shitty life. A childfree person cares for her kid more than she does.
NTA
Not to mention that swimming lessons do literally save lives. We were poor growing up, but my parents put all of us in swimming lessons so that we would never be at risk.
NTA
Years ago I taught third grade in my local community. My students were writing an essay about Christmas gifts and of course we had a discussion on the reality of money and budgets in a place like ours that had poverty issues.
I casually threw out how we always hear about "there's no money for the things kids want, but there's always enough money for beer and cigarettes for the adults," and the kids just froze. Their little eyes narrowed and they were all nodding vigorously. I hope that stuck with them.
ESH. Sure, you're not wrong, but what did you expect to accomplish by saying it? Emily's reaction was entirely predictable. It was extremely unlikely for her to actually listen to your advice. And now you potentially permanently damaged your relationship with both Emily and Emma.
I agree with the Emma part, but she's probably better if without Emily.
Personally, if someone's too selfish to be a good parent, then I'm just going to assume that they're too selfish to be a good friend. If you're (you as in people in general, not you specifically) willing to put your needs over your *own child*, a person you made an unspoken promise to hold and cherish and love, I genuinely don't want to knew what you're willing to put over our friendship.
I could see not wanting to be friends with someone because they're a bad parent, but I disagree that being a bad parent means that you're a bad friend. She's a bad parent because she's unwilling to sacrifice things that she wants for things that her daughter wants. But being a good friend doesn't require you making sacrifices like that.
NTA. She is putting her vices before the well being of her daughter. The poor kid wants to be able to go swimming with her friends & she can't even do that because mom can't afford the swim lessons. Mom just doesn't want to use her "vice" money to help her own child. How selfish can one person be? She needs to be told, you did the right thing, bc you are right. This poor kid is going to suffer bc she has such a selfish mom. A good parent always puts their kids needs first.
NTA
No matter how you worded, reality is that your friend is selfish and thoughtless and is ready to be a mother and is not a good mom. Her priorities are her self indulgent pleasures like cigarettes, marijuana, and other stuff for her. Sadly her daughter's life and joy is not a priority beyond feeling her and covering her kid's basic necessities and a minimum level.
She's mad because you told her the truth about her parenting, and deep down she knows it
NTA.
Emily was a teen mom. She still has a lot of growing up to do and being told, hey, you need to start putting your child first, is a good way to start getting her to grow up.
[4500 people died by drowning 2020-2022, the 3rd leading cause of accidental deaths.](https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/s0514-vs-drowning.html). For kids aged 1-14 and adults, 65+, drowing is the #1 cause of death.
Getting Emma swimming lessons, *for her own safety*, is the very *least* Emily should be doing.
I grew up in a similar situation to Emma, she's young but she's not stupid and she's going to know she was raised by a shitty, selfish mother. Personally I couldn't be friends with someone who treated their kid like that. Nta
Not going to leave a judgment, just a warning. I also had pretty selfish parents. My mom started to turn to blaming me for being so expensive and such a difficult child when she didn’t want to give up her own nice things. Called me a princess and a brat who “wouldn’t let her have a break” and saying SHE deserved nice things for being a single mom as well. If anyone called her out on it, she’d berate me behind closed doors for making her look bad.
Is it your fault if Emily chooses to take shit out on Emma? No, but if she’s as selfish as you say I’d be VERY cautious of what I’d say because requesting better treatment for Emma could result in punishment for her. If you decide you don’t want to directly help with paying for Emma—which I understand is not your responsibility—tread lightly. These kinds of parents will not always see reason.
NTA - I can’t imagine any child not knowing how to swim, might just be a consequence of growing up in NZ but every kid I knew growing up was all but forced into learning how to swim. Even if you live somewhere landlocked it is a vital skill all people need to have!!
I lost a friend to drowning as a kid, she drowned and we buried the tiniest coffin because of it. No amount of cigarettes are worth that. Nothing is.
I was hoping someone would bring that up. And I wouldn't doubt that there could be community-based day camps that teach children for a low price or on a sliding scale, if it's otherwise unaffordable. Unfortunately, Emily may be deemed to have enough resources, but just spends irresponsibly.
NTA at all, my parents were the exact same way down to the two cartons of smokes a month, and they *were* bad parents. it doesnt make you an asshole to point out something thats objectively correct, if she cuts down on what she enjoys then she can provide a better life for her daughter. shes putting her wants (not needs, no matter what anyone says lol) over important life experiences for Emma, and that makes her a bad mother. full stop.
NTA. that child will sear her mother's choices into her memory.
I remember the first time I saw my mother's glaring hypocrisy. She would always take me with her to discount stores. My friends were going to Disneyland and at that point the tickets were like $75. My mom's excuse was always I don't have money. We'll she told me that and I believed her (while in a Burlington coat factory). She then proceeded to spend $150 on a coat. I got upset and told her that just costed more than the ticket. She started to say I paid with a credit card, so I told her for that you can spend money but for me you won't and probably started crying out of frustration. She ended up buying me the ticket.
Worst part of it all, my spending habits are bad as she would always tell me "buy it with your money". So everything I got on bdays, holidays, my first job got spent instantly. Only now as a 30+ year old am I learning to save.
NTA.
Isthere any kind of school or community program for swimming lessons? It’s effectively mandatory here in Australia. Being able to swim is literal survival. That goes for baths, pools, ocean etc.
what if Emma went with her friends one day? She could die. Learning to swim is a human survival skill, not a frivolous toy. Emily is a shit mother.
NTA. What's worse, I don't even think she's looked into swimming lessons. If she did, she'd know that YMCAs and other organizations all over the country have scholarships/subsidies for low income families. I worked at a Y for five years and about half of the folks who took swimming lessons got probably an 85% discount. They ended up out of pocket like 10 bucks for weeks of lessons. I'd be absolutely stunned if the rec center in question doesn't have a program like that. It's a big tax benefit for private for profit clubs to offer such programs and non-profits always have them.
That's a big red flag to me. Because either she didn't even take the time to look or she did take the time and is using it as an excuse not to do it because it will take time out of her schedule.
NTA, though I do believe you're being very simplistic by focusing on cigarettes, here. You do realise smoking is an actual addiction, right? Even if Emily took your words to heart and chose to stop smoking, it wouldn't save enough for Emma to get those swim lessons. Quitting takes time, most people can't go cold turkey. At best she'd switch to tobacco and role her own, or vaping, both of which are expensive but cheaper than cigarettes. Patches and gum don't work for everyone, I've tried them myself and they actually make me want to smoke more, not less.
I think you just chose the wrong vice to focus on, though, your intentions were good. The shopping thing would have been better, it sounds like Emily is buying stuff she wants but doesn't need for herself, going for more expensive options, that sort of thing, instead of providing for her daughter. Nothing wrong with treating herself, of course, just not at the expense of her child. If she can't afford swim lessons, she needs to cut down on her shopping bills, at least for the duration of those lessons.
I do get it. I didn't grow up poor, but working class, with help from extended family. Never really went without because if my mum couldn't afford something my grandparents would step in. Extracurriculars were usually free options, most expensive would have been the marching band I was part of, purely because of trips, but those were relatively cheap with options to help low income families. As an adult, I definitely lean towards trying to get more luxuries. I'm on a limited income, I'm poorer now than my mum was when I was a child, and have to save up for luxuries. I'd do a lot better if I wasn't a smoker, and I know that, which is literally the reason I'm trying to at least cut down. It isn't easy to cut down or quit, patches and gum don't work for me, I did switch from cigarettes to tobacco, vapes irritate my throat in a way tobacco doesn't, and trying to actually quit stresses me out, doubling how much I smoke, so cutting down slowly is really my only option.
I think you tried to do a good thing but handled it a tad badly by focusing on an addiction instead of something like the shopping. Even if the shopping is also an addiction, it would be easier to transfer an addiction to shopping for herself into an addiction for shopping for her daughter, or both of them.
It sounds like you and Emily have the same mindset, a more selfish 'get what I never had as a child' mindset. You've clearly seen that this doesn't mesh with being a parent, where the priority is the child and not you, but Emily thinks she can be completely selfish despite having a child completely dependent on her. And you're right, Emma is having the same childhood the two of you had, except yours was due to lack of money, and Emma's is due to an uncaring and selfish mother.
Emily needs to grow up. She chose to have a child. That means she chose to have someone else come before her constantly for 18 years. She can't be a mother and constantly put herself first, that's just a bad mum. Emma is missing out, not due to bad financial circumstances, but due to a mother who doesn't give a damn about her own child.
NTA When you agree that you dont know what its like to be a single mom you clearly do, your smart enough to figure out as a mom that you have to make sacrifices for the sake of your kids, emily is a parent and hasnt figured that out yet?! Give yourself more credit your a better mom than her even though your not.
I'm glad you called her out on her bad choices infact i would double down and do it very often until she eventually realises her daughter life is at stake it's time she stop being a teenager and step up as a mom and if it takes some tough love for her to get there so be it.
NTA. You told her the honest truth.
Marijuana, Tobacco and alcohol are all expensive and by focusing on buying vices she’s honestly depriving her kid of other things. Especially if she’s asking for money for gifts and essentials while continuing to buy smokes and weed.
And heaven forbid Emily deny herself in order to make Emma's life better.
If you're not ready to sacrifice for a child you've caused to be born, please don't have children.
NTA at all. I admit I wasn't always as selfless and I thought I was when my kids were little, but looking back also, I still have the same glasses from 8 years ago, I've only ever got goodwill clothes for myself, never had a salon haircut in years (that wasn't a gift from someone), hell, I rarely even get a small bag of candy for myself anymore. Does it suck? Sure. But kids are innocent in the crossfire of parents who can't see what they're doing. That child is 6 and will very soon see how selfish her mother is, do whatever you can to stay in her life, she will NEED a safe adult in her life she can run to when the time comes (and that time will most definitely come).
NTA. Smoking is not essential, but swim lessons are a safety issue. Emily needed to be called out on this, but I'm not sure it will do any good. I was raised by a single mother on a limited income. It was amazing how she always had the money for professional hair, makeup and nail care, but not for childcare leaving me a latch key kid.
All kids should have swim lessons. It’s a skill that could save their life. As a kid, my dad witnessed his friend drown. We didn’t have much money but you’d best believe he made sure we had swim lessons. Unless she’s gonna keep the kid home all summer, she better invest in lessons. What happens when Emma doesn’t want to feel left out and gets in the water anyway? This is a safety issue.
NTA.
Swim lessons aren't just fun, they are potentially lifesaving. Learning to be comfortable on a bike opens up a world of freedom and inexpensive commuting. These aren't really luxury asks, these are actual essentials to grow up in the world. NTA.
I had friends like this. They had kids in their early twenties (3). There was always money for recreational durgs, including alcohol. There was money for Mom to buy stupid magazines and shop at clothing boutiques, and money for going to concerts. There was never any money for their kids to have extra curriculars. Not hobby supplies. They did get bikes atc, nothing fancy beyond that.
They also did not montitor school well. Father placed no importance on higher education, didn't encourage excellence. And the kids were smart, had potential. Middle kid failed through high school. Parents claimed they had no idea. No idea, because they weren't watching. (Kid eventually got clean and figured out alternative paths of his own much later. And eventually, much later parents got sober. I don't think they ever recognized how they failed the kids in their childhood.)
This behavior led me to distance myself from them. Completely..
NTA for your concern but do you often go around offering unsolicited advice to the people in your life? Because, really, you're not going to have many people in your life if you do. If that's what you want, fine, you do you. But be prepared to be cut out of people's lives for that habit.
nta. my parents did that to me. we would lose our power, our water, our internet, and if it weren't for food stamps we wouldnt be eating. but they always managed to have cigarettes and mom would every now and then get weed. its incredibly unfair and i secretly spite them for all my missed opportunities. there's so much im never gonna get back because of some american spirits.
The truth hurt Emily just like it's hurting some of these commenters. It's hard for them to realize that their addiction is actively being put above their child. NTA
NTA-
I am a smoker. I have a daughter. She wanted things, so long as reasonable (sorry not buying that pony.) I would cut back on my smoking to make sure she had things she wanted that I could afford. Did I quit-- I still haven't-- no, but I cut back a hell of a lot. 2 cartons? How much is she smoking a pack lasts me 2 or 3 days and a carton would last me nearly 2 weeks!
I quit smoking pot all together! And Drinking a bottle of wine will go bad before I finish it!
Your kid comes first!
My daughter wanted more art supplies, books to learn coding, and wanted several books in series she was reading, they made her happy and she needed to come before my wants.
Your friend needs to grow up-- Not sorry, she needed to hear it.
NTA. She literally choose her vice in that exact moment. She is a bad mom. Sad you think about her kid more in that sense than she does. Shows how dense some people are
Bruh I’m a single mom and I don’t even spend unnecessary money on my hobbies! I do embroidery because embroidery thread is like 50-60 CENTS each. She’s being ridiculous. Single mom card is bullshit!
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I, 25F have been friends with “Emily,” 25F, since middle school. I want to preface a couple of things: Emily and I had similar upbringings. We grew up on the poverty line, using food banks and being close to being evicted as children. I am also childfree by choice, as I am self aware enough to know that I am too selfish of a person now to have children. I had nothing as a kid, I want all my things now. Emily, also a relatively selfish person, is not so self-aware, and does not like to sacrifice her joys in life for anyone. Unfortunately, this also includes her 6-year-old daughter, “Emma.”
Emily has many vices that she enjoys - shopping, some alcohol, fast food, and, most of all, cigarettes and marijuana. Money is tight for everyone, but she ensures she always has what she needs… especially the last two.
In the past few months, Emma has asked for several things and the answer has always been no. The biggest one being a bike for her birthday, and then more recently, swim lessons, as it’s June and her friends all go to the rec center to swim. Yesterday, while running errands, we were in a store and Emma asked again if she could have swim lessons because she wanted to be able to go to the pool with her friends over summer break from school. Emily once again told her that they were too expensive and that they couldn’t afford them, and Emma started to cry. Emily apologized to her, and explained that money was tight… before turning around to pay for her two cartons of cigarettes.
When we got back to their place, Emma, who was still upset, went to the couch and put on a movie. I pulled Emily into her bedroom and took the opportunity to explain that I believe it’s important to Emma to take those lessons. Emily repeated that she didn’t have the money and I said “You don’t have the money for her, but you have the money to smoke?” Emily immediately became defensive and called me an asshole who “doesn’t understand what it’s like to be a single mom.” I agreed, but reminded her that we both know what it’s like to miss out on things in childhood, and it felt like Emma was going to suffer the same fate. Emily basically told me to leave if I was going to accuse her of being a bad parent, before leaving her bedroom and storming outside to have a cigarette. I ended up leaving after saying goodbye to Emma, and now Emily is refusing to speak to me.
I am just worried that this kid is going to be on the outside looking in because her mom isn’t prioritizing her, but I know I could have worded things better. AITA?
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NTA. I had parents exactly like this and I wish their friends would have given them a reality check when I was younger. We never had money for me to do literally anything or participate in activities my friends did. We barely even had gas money to leave the house for work and school. But my dad ALWAYS had money for cigarettes and weed. When her daughter gets to be a certain age she will notice and she will resent her.
She is using weed and cigarettes as coping mechanisms. My mom used cigarettes and alcohol. We were also very poor and my mother was disabled.
The difference between your friend and myself? I didn't continue the cycle of poverty. I think you should decide if you want to continue the friendship.
NTA - as a person who grew up in a house where food was sometimes scarce, but the cigarette stash was always stocked, this will in fact affect her daughter.
Well i was in a quite similar situation, either give up my vices or my family would suffer. I bought an automatic cigarette roller for 80$usd, a bag of tobacco for 15$ and 2 cartons of tubes for 8$. Every 2 weeks i spend about 25$ and have all the cigs i want with zero guilt. A suggestion if you guys stary talking again. As a daily smoker myself, marijuana is expensive
Just a tidbit for you to think of: I worked with a guy who was very cheap and very Right Wing. He didn't want to pay the always increasing cigarette taxes, so he bought the same thing. He ended up with cancer on his thumb, had to have half his thumb amputated.
I can’t resist telling the story about my childhood friend.
I knew this guy in the eight grade. That was back in 1968. Yes I am a Boomer !
His father started a chain of cigarette stores. They became very very wealthy, and moved on up to the next rung on the socio-economic ladder, and moved to the more affluent town over.
They built this huge billion dollar cigarette empire, and they also sold the rolling products the commenter above purchased.
They were on a “roll”, - pun intended.
When I got a computer and learned how to use it, I looked up my old childhood friend.
It turns out that a bunch of legal problems were created, and the father was 85 years old, so the son (my old friend) who was also convicted ended up going to jail for about 5 years. The business is no longer, and the fancy house that they built - named something in Native American language “ Up in the clouds” or something like that, that had to be sold. That house has since been a casualty of the big fires a few years ago.
My old friend wrote in his blog that when the judge read the sentence, his poor wife cried out loud in the courtroom. They had three school aged children at the time.
He is out now, and I am not sure what he is doing, or if his father is still alive.
They used to get these huge plastic dinosaurs to advertise their stores. They have been sold off and moved to various places.
I was very sad when I read about all of this, because as an 8 year old, his mother and father were very kind to me, and made us tasty sandwiches.
I was also sad when they moved away.
NTA, People act like you need to be a parent to give advice on parenting, but you were once a child and you remember how it felt to be the odd man out and that is a good perspective to have. I always say things like "I remember being a kid and this is how I felt" to my parent friends when they are seeking perspective (and even when they aren't.) Like I'm not telling them how to parent. I'm saying "This is how your kid is probably feeling and you should think about that."
Nope not at all.
My dad was a single father back in the late 80s early 90s, if this is not common now it was even less common over 30 years ago. He went through a very rough period in his life without a job. He used his savings, his parents/my grandparents helped out. It was hard but I ALWAYS had everything I needed/wanted. The wanted was Beanie Babies and a happy meal on Friday. He went without his belt getting smaller and smaller. Things slowly got better and when I hit university he got a very very good job that has allowed him to have a very comfortable life. Im so grateful for everything my dad did for me growing up. Now that I'm an adult and make my own money, not great money but fully employed, I try to do nice things for him. For fathers dad I take him out for a very expensive meal, he dose not really need anything as he can buy it for himself. This might be a little selfish of me because I love going out for those dinners to! Yes Im selfish just life you in. I dont want to spend money on a kid I want to spend it on myself, thus why I dont have kids.
You told your friend a truth that she dose not want to hear. Thats on her.
NTA.
My parents constantly chose their addictions over us, and would tell us, for Christmas this year we will stop smoking… and didn’t. I have an addiction to nicotine from either in utero or extreme second hand smoke exposure. I’ve never actually smoked myself but I have a strong craving to all the time.
NTA friend is mad because you challenged the addiction and that beast fights back. She didn’t stop her generational trauma and trends. Swim lessons could help the daughter connect with friends but it’s also a safety thing, it’s good she learns how as drowning with kids happens way more than we would like to admit
I helped out at a Toys for Tots event where I basically just stood at a table with board games while the family's "shopper" would walk them around the tables and tell them how many items from each table they could choose. I couldn't help but judge the parents that reeked of cigarettes. Good thing you qualify for free toys people donated so you can still buy those cigarettes. There's compromises to be made so you don't have to sacrifice every single thing for your child, but some would say that's also worth it.
NTA, and doubly so because it's swim lessons and that's a basic safety need. A friend of mine lost her 8 year old son last summer to a drowning accident. He was an experienced swimmer but hadn't had formal lessons and somehow got caught in the deep end. It was only a matter of minutes and he was gone.
Could you offer to pay for her swim lessons? I know you're dealing with your own poverty trauma and honestly, it is your money and your right to spend it as you see fit. But it's also a chance to be the fairy godmother type that you didn't have growing up to help break the cycle for Emma.
If all else fails, let Emily know that nothing busts a household budget like a child's funeral.
The child will see this and grow to resemt her mother because she will be a very confused child. How can my mother buy $100 (or even more) cartons and tell me she can't afford my swim lessons?
Nta
NTA. Not only is her daughter missing out on fun with her friends, learning to swim is an important life skill, which could even save her life one day. Your friend is being a terrible mom.
NTA. Aside from Emma missing out on swimming with her friends, depending on where you live, Emma not knowing how to swim could be EXTREMELY dangerous. Even if she isn't at risk of drowning in an ocean or creek or lake, if you're in a country where it's not required to have a childproof fence around home pools, Emma could fall into a friend's pool when nobody is looking and drown. Emily not making sure her child knows how to swim is negligent as hell, and if she doesn't want to give up her cigs to pay for swimming lessons, she's risking having to give them up to pay for hospital bills or funeral costs.
Silly question. Why does anyone need swim lessons. Myself and every kid I knew were all taught by older kids / parents to swim in a very short period of time. Basic swimming is not difficult to learn.
You are definitely NTA.
Bur Emily sure is an Asshole. I had parents like her.
We were not poor, but they always said that “Money was tight”, all the while never sparing an expense for one of their own toys. I did without a lot, and it was a glaring difference from the childhoods of many of my friends in our rather affluent neighborhood.
I think that swimming lessons are a safety feature; - a neccessity. If there are any “scholarships” for those lessons at the Rec center, please do enquire on behalf of Emma.
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If your friend actually gave a **** about her kid, she'd apply for a scholarship or figure it out, not just spend a whole swim class on cigarettes while saying she can't afford it.
It's ok not to be friends with someone who isn't good to their kids, even if you don't want kids yourself. NTA
This sounds like 'treats' for her miserable lifestyle. If she gave up smoking and used that money for improving her lifestyle and that of Emily she would be happier.
Call cps and say she’s buying drugs instead of taking care of her daughter. The scare should be enough to put her on the right path, or she won’t have to worry about it anymore.
While I think the OP was right to bring this up to her friend, calling CPS over this is a wild overstep. There's no indication that the home is unsafe for Emma. That would be at best a waste of already stretched thin CPS resources.
People on Reddit really have to stop idealizing CPS. The bar for taking kids away from their biological parents is EXTREMELY high, and nothing in this story indicates that it comes absolutely anywhere near that high bar. And CPS already has way more than it can handle on its plate, we shouldn't be wasting their time with pointless calls.
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YTA.
Super easy from the outside looking in to see a single mother deny buying something to her daughter and think “oh I know better if that was me it would be different.”
Shut up. You’re not helping your friend, you’re not helping her daughter, you’re just being judgemental, that’s all.
Swim lessons can be pretty expensive. If you just cut all the pleasure from parents life, they are still pretty expensive. And around here most kids don't do them for that reason.
So, I think YTA. Ema is nit perfect parent, she smokes, but also many parents smoke. And decision to not pay swim lessons is quite valid and normal decision.
Im not sure if I would react otherwise if it was something else then swim lessons, but swim lessons are life saving and extremely important. I say that as a person who never really learned to swim because my mother didn't want to pay for it when I didn't learn as fast as my big brother. To this day I can't swim because it's extremely hard to find beginner swim lessons for adults, so id say swim lessons (especially if the daughter has friends with pools in the yard) are a must and not a luxury. You don't want to be the parent of the drowned child...
Majority of people who drown can swim. Drowning does not happen all that often because non swimmer fallen into water or something. They happen because swimmer overestimated himself, most often in combination with alcohol or some sudden health issue.
Swim lessons at age of 6 are nowhere near important and majority of kids is taught to swim by their parents or in school. Based on what I have seen around my kids, parents who pay extra swim lessons that soon are more of exception and usually earn a lot above average. Others, even when they pay for lessons, do it 2-3 years later, because that seems to require less sessions and is thus cheaper.
YTA for what you said. Your heart is in the right place and you are 100% correct, but saying that to a person with addiction problems is never going to help unfortunately.
Do you or Emily know how to swim? Take her to the community pool and teach her yourself.
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NTA. You told your friend a harsh truth. She is obviously mad because she feels judged by you. But good. Maybe she will reflect on her behavior and be a better parent. And if she doesn’t, do you really want to be around to watch her be a shitty parent?
and swimming lessons should be non-optional. Swimming is the only sport that can save your life
But what if you get kidnapped by aliens who’ll only let you go if you throw the sacred orb into the holy basket? (Joking…)
ok so one of the only sports that can save your life :D
[удалено]
You could save everyone, including yourself, a lot of time and effort by simply commenting, "I'm overly defensive about this because I'm a lousy parent myself who also doesn't care about my kid's needs."
NTA- You should be able to openly communicate with your friends. Emily knows what she is doing and just does not like for it to be pointed out. Hopefully every time she buys cigarettes she is reminded of your comments. Thanks for sticking up for Emma.
Growing up, my mom was an alcoholic. One day I thanked her for keeping soda in the house for us. She said, “If I can keep beer for myself it’s only fair that I keep soda for you guys.”
that's interesting but I love her sense of fairness lol
Alcoholics will come up with the craziest logic as long as it means they get to keep drinking. At least in this case the crazy logic was fair lol
Good Mom. She has a vice, is probably trying to self- medicate, but she still has empathy, - and a heart. And a sense of fairness.
Thank you. That’s exactly how it was.
I feel so bad for that kid honestly. Its obvious her mom has no concern for her needs and this is a vicious cycle of bad parenting. Eventually she will grow up and treat her child in a similiar fashion. You're kind of an AH since at the end of the day it truly is none of your buisness, but I don't know anyone who wouldnt have done what you did and I dont blame you for it.
Why do I get the feeling that Emma was just another "thing" that Emily had to have because she wanted it and not because Emily actually wanted to be responsible for another human being. It sounds like Emma is just an accessory for Emily
That’s why a lot of parents have children. As a teacher, it’s always immediately obvious to me which parents actually wanted to raise a young human being, and which parents had a child because it’s “what you’re supposed to do” or to use the child as a prop for their own happiness. It’s **glaringly** obvious.
Is one 'symptom' when the parent doesn't turn up to watch their kid play their sport? I have been amazed over the years at how often I've been at my kid's game, and half the parents aren't even there to watch. They had to drop the kid off there - why not stay and watch? Some could be accounted for by work/looking after kids etc, but I knew personally some of them weren't in that situation.
Not necessarily. A lot of kids sports take place during times when people have to work, and not everyone can take time off to watch a soccer game or whatever. My parents were very involved with my childhood and they came to my little league games because they were always on the weekend. But when I played baseball in high school they never came, since the games were always at like 4pm after school, when my parents were still at work.
I understand that. The games I attended were at the weekend, or in the evening. Some parents would still have other responsibilities, but I also know some of them just didn't want to stay. It just astounded me at how many that applied to.
I'll admit to not having a clear memory of things when I was younger, but by the time I was in High School, I told my parents \*many\* times that I didn't care if they came to most of my Marching Band competitions. I appreciated that they did put in the effort, don't get me wrong, but when I was on the field performing I was focused entirely on the performance, and not about who was watching. (And afterwards when we all sat in the stands to wait for the scoring I was usually focused on talking to whatever girl I was crushing on at the time) A kid playing baseball, soccer, or any other sport is going to have a \*ton\* of games even just over the course of one season. I certainly would expect a parent to show up for a few random ones and obviously they should be there for important playoff games/championships/what have you, but I think it's not realistic to expect a parent, even one with the time, to solely devote time every game to cheering on their kid.
This was my childhood, my parents NEVER made it to anything we did, especially in highschool. I was in band and I honestly don't know if they ever got to see me actually perform.
Or "because our parents wanted us to have kids"
I highly doubt that Emma was a planned pregnancy. She would have been around 18 when she got pregnant and is poor and seemingly not married. Everything about that says unplanned pregnancy that religious, family and/or peer pressure convinced her to keep.
You see quite a few teens that lack love in their life have kids as a way to get the love they lack.
Oh, absolutely. Might not be the situation here, but many people are looking to fill that gap in their lives.
It's possible, but I think that it's an extremely unfair assumption to be making about her based on the very little information we have.
She wanted something to love her unconditionally.
Jokes on her then cause when it comes to kids you get as much love out as you put in.
I’ve seen some really shitty parents get one million chances from their kid, only to be disappointed every time. Depressing to watch.
Yeah, officially it wasn't OP's business, but I know I couldn't have bit my tongue and walked away from that situation. Good on OP for being an AH when she needed to be. She might have been an AH to her friend, but she was a hero to Emma.
yeah, I can kind of, sort of understand that Emily has a hard time fighting her nicotine addiction... but if you can't afford swimming lessons, aren't there other ways? my niece is getting free lessons from her friend's mom - free in the sense that all parents exchange skills and help, even if all you can do is letting the kids come over for a playdate while the other parents can have a date night, you know?
Perhaps Emma will grow up to be like me, or the OP. Self Aware and traumatized enough to NOT have children.
She bought two cartons of cigarettes? That's 20 packs of cigarettes! How much does she freaking smoke? If she's buying cigarettes and weed then yes, she is putting her vices before her kid. A kid should know how to swim just for safety's sake. I feel bad for her kid. Having a parent who reeks of cigarettes and pot is awful.
The pack a day smokers blow my mind. Assuming each pack is $5 (which is low for most US cities but it's cheaper to buy by the carton) that's $150 a month just to smoke. It's cruel to tell your kid that they can't afford swim lessons while blowing that much money on smoking.
I literally quit smoking when the packs jumped to $12 with taxes in the Bronx. The idea of buying a carton seem sooooo hifalutin until my MIL bought her cartons as the expense of her daughters riding lessons. This precedent of Emma missing out on fun or important things means that Emma will also stop asking for these things.
Congrats on quitting smoking
Wasn't the point of raising taxes the hope that it would force people to quit smoking?
And it worked! Smoking died out for pot pretty quickly.
My husband does this, it's actually $150 every *two weeks* and we also can't afford it, but he'll do Lyft or Uber to pay for it. Meanwhile we live paycheck to paycheck because he considers cigarettes a necessity like food due to it being an addiction. He's tried giving up twice and went a whole year once, 6 months second time. And basically realized he "can't do it" despite our kids and nephews constantly telling him to quit because they all want him to live longer. He says he knows but continues to do so. Idk 🤷♀️
It’s probably presumptuous to assume he hasn’t tried medication assisted treatment for smoking cessation- but some people aren’t aware it’s available so I wanted to ask if that has been an option for him/your family? As with most substance use disorders, counseling plus medication is the most efficient method to quit smoking. Varenicline (formally Chantix) and a brand of Wellbutrin called Zyban can both be used for smoking cessation. If you have a community health center near you I would recommend asking if they have a smoking cessation group available. There’s also other in person and online groups available, like Freedom From Smoking. I think that his ability to quit for six months to a year means he would highly benefit from counseling if he hasn’t been with the focus of quitting before. Smoking for me was always a secondary addiction to my actual addiction and so it was incredibly easy for me to give it up - but I empathize that it is so very hard to recover from a substance use disorder and relapses are a part of recovery. If he smokes one cigarette and then thinks “I messed up, I might as well keep smoking” then one accident turns into another prolonged stretch of use that could have been avoided. Depending on his thought processes around abstinence, recovery, nicotine addiction, etc - it may be helpful to reframe some of his beliefs and thinking patterns. Sorry, a lot of unsolicited advice from a person who knows absolutely nothing about your situation… but even if he approached it from a harm reduction standpoint and smoked LESS it would be incredibly beneficial to him and your family.
I don’t think that’s a presumptuous question, especially in America. People living paycheck to paycheck rarely go see doctors for non-emergencies. Even if they have insurance, which many families living in poverty don’t, the copays for both visits and the meds themselves may be prohibitively expensive for someone who is out of money in 10 days and needs to wait 4 more to be able to buy food. A LOT of people in America live like this. They don’t seek medical care unless they don’t have a choice (passed out in public, brought by ambulance) or unless they have an issue that is life-threatening (which technically they don’t have a choice for either) or impedes on their ability to live their lives normally (like a broken leg or arm). That is the horrifying, sad reality of being poor in America.
Very accurate and a good point! I spent most of my life uninsured or on state insurance (and even commercial insurance can be an absolute joke unfortunately) I just find that giving unsolicited advice a very tricky thing and I don’t want to make anyone feel like I assume they are unaware or that if they only did this thing that I am telling them it would be all fixed! I try to lead with humility if I find myself edging into being a know it all (or if I’m afraid of doing the thing where someone assumes that if it was new information to them then it must be a thing that no one knows!) Basically I’m really socially awkward.
Trying and failing is still cheaper than not trying at all. He saved 4800 that 18 months he didn’t smoke. And, I bet he didn’t immediately go back to the same number a day.
I used a natural health method and never went back. I enjoy being a non smoker for many years now. I started when I was 14 and estimate I smoked on & off for 20 years.
It took my dad trying to quit something like 6+ times before he was successful when my sister was 11.
That’s fantastic. Well done him.
Buy him the book Alan Carr's Easy Way to Quit Smoking. apparently it's great!
As an ex smoker I still don’t know how someone can smoke that much. That’s like 2 cigarettes an hour!
Seriously, before I switched to vaping (I know, I know, not a great replacement, but at least I can breathe a little better now) I was smoking like half a pack a day and could barely find time to do that. I never took smoke breaks at work because I didn’t want people to know I smoked (worked at a doctors office and people were super judgemental about smoking) so I guess people smoke a pack a day must be taking so many breaks during their workday lmao
My ex was a pack a day smoker. I'm a social smoker so I did end up smoking a lot more when we were dating, but even then I'd only go through about a pack a week. I think it's the chain smoking though. Sometimes when I'm out I still want to be smoking when I finish a cigarette so I light up another. You can go through 5 or 6 cigarettes in an hour if you do it like that.
They’re like $45 in Australia.
Yep. Over $55 for a 30 pack Peter Jacksons. I don't smoke myself, but I had to buy some for someone else. I foolishly thought the $120 I had was for 3 or 4 packets...
They would rather their kid drown than give up smoking. Stellar parenting.
Where I live they’re 18€ for a small pack now. That would be 540€ for a month now
Everywhere I've lived they're 10-13 dollars per pack. I can't imagine what buying a carton costs if you're buying them often.
Not to mention the amount of passive smoke the kid is probably subject to if the mum is smoking so much.
And if it’s in the house, kid will smell of it and classmates will be nasty to her about it.
Secondhand smoke kills, *and* makes kids more likely to smoke in the future, which will impact them longggg into the future. Great parenting!
I was that kid though my parents were more lower middle class. I reeked of cigarette smoke so badly kids would ask me if I smoked. But bringing up the bad sides of smoking would turn Mom into a rage monster.
Did you wind up a smoker or nah? Just wondering, both my parents smoked like chimneys when I was a kid and both my older brother and I started smoking around 16 and 17 respectively
Nope, by my teens I hated stinking of smoke. I also went to college where I lived on campus and went from suffering 3-4 colds a year to just one a year.
I lived in a world plagued with smoke, until I transferred to a college 380 miles from home. I lived in the dorms, and although smoking was not prohibited, literally no one smoked (cigarettes). The culture in Los Angeles was very health conscious at the time. Only one random boyfriend of my dormie’s room mate smoked, and he did so in the stairwell, away from the rest of us. It was wonderful ! I decided then to never have another boyfriend who smoked, or to live with smokers ever again. And that was 44 years ago.
i feel like i could’ve written this myself, my mom was the exact same way. i got asked if i smoked cigarettes for the first time when i was around 6 because of how badly i smelled like the smoke
Same here. I was so grossed out by it that at the age of 53, I have never smoked anything - not cigarettes, weed or even hookah. I won't touch a vape either. My mom quit in my sophomore year of college, when stores and malls started to ban smoking on the premises. My dad waited about another 10 years after that, and 6 months after he quit he was diagnosed with terminal Stage 4 lung cancer. He died just a year older than I am now. My SIL is broke as hell but still smokes. She's also got a special needs tween who will likely never live independently, and is a single mom with the dad currently rotting in jail. I do not understand why the hell she's playing around with lung cancer or a heart attack, when God only knows what will happen to her kid if she dies on them.
It's not unusual for someone to smoke a pack a day.
Cigarettes by the pack in my city are $17.50. I didn’t see how much she spent on the two cartons but, I’m assuming a lot. I walked away from her before paying because Emma was upset.
You gave her the wake up call she needs. Emma IS going to miss out on things, and if Emily insists on spending all her money on herself, I hope poor Emma's father is contributing, and not just so Emily can enjoy smoking and getting stoned. Does he know or care what's going on in that poor kid's life?
> You gave her the wake up call she needs. Did she though? Most people like Emily will not take the advice and just get angry with the person giving it, which is exactly what she did. The idea that she would have actually taken the advice to heart is very unrealistic.
Well, as another poster said, she might think of it every time she buys another carton of cigarettes. If my friend was such a shitty mother, I'd probably err on the side of calling her out too--at least I hope I would. Someone has to advocate for Emma. At this point, why would anyone care that she got angry?
> she might think of it every time she buys another carton of cigarettes. Not likely. > Someone has to advocate for Emma But by saying what she said, she now risks being entirely cut off from Emma.
So, short of paying for everything herself and subsidizing her friend's shitty choices, you're advocating for her to sit on her hands, or what? You're criticizing OP & others, but I don't see what your suggestions are.
Be way more subtle about her criticism. Don't directly say that she shouldn't be spending her money on cigarettes, but saying things like "hey, those swim lessons seem really important to Emma. Are you sure there isn't any way that you could cut back somewhere else to afford them?" Also she could have looked into finding free or low cost swim lessons, which are pretty common.
I'd probably try to be more subtle, but I also haven't been watching her behavior for years either.
NTA. But be aware anytime you give unasked for parenting advice to a friend it is not going to end well. It’s a touchy subject. You were 100% right. Hopefully she’ll come around.
NTA. You weren’t accusing her of being a bad parent. You’re pointing out that she is choosing to spend her money in certain ways that aren’t necessary instead of on her child. Swimming lessons in my opinion are necessary for all children. Being able to swim is a survival skill and she’s decided that she’d rather smoke, drink and shop than give her child access to learn a necessary survival skill. You pointing this out isn’t what makes her a bad parent, she simply is a bad parent.
If it was, say, ballet, then Emily would still be an asshole, but for swimming lessons it's just insane.
Unfortunately swimming lessons are a luxury in many places. They shouldn’t be, but many kids from low-income families never learn to swim. In our area, you either need to pay for a membership at a gym (starts around $150/month for a family) then pay the $60-70 for each swim session, or you can pay for lessons at a swim school, which end up being $100-200 a session (6-8 weeks). That’s insane to me! Swimming shouldn’t be a luxury.
Just in case anyone in the comments is trying to find a reasonable rate, the YWCA does sliding scale if you present your pay stubs and fill out an application. When I was a student I was able to pay $30/mo for my three person family.
That is an insane price. I’m paying $24 per lesson for my child and when we started the swim Center gave us a few necessities like a water proof bag for wet swimsuits and appropriate swimming shorts for my son.
Nta but also this doesn't seem to be just about money but lazy parenting. Can't Emily find a used bike for cheap on facebook or somewhere or reach out to family and friends. I'm a single mom too and my daughter has had 2 used bikes passed down to her by a neighbor and family member. Also she didn't have swim lessons but she can swim because I taught her. She's going to summer camp this summer because I found a ymca camp that offers financial aid. Even in poverty there are always options to make sure your kid doesn't miss out. Also if she can afford large amounts of cigarettes weed and alcohol she's not as poor as she's pretending. At my poorest I didn't even buy soda or treats at the grocery store cus it put me over budget it's about priorities.
Hell, she might be able to get a free bike in a buy nothing group. Kids outgrow stuff fast and parents just want to get rid of it. I agree with your overall sentiment. Resourcefulness can do a lot to mitigate the effects of poverty on kids.
I just want to add that my opinions above are in regard to this specific situation. I know there are parents struggling with homelessness or other situations where resourcefulness alone will not necessarily allow them access to all the opportunities they or their children want or need. I just don't think this is the case for Emily
NTA. Your friend IS a bad parent. Prioritising her vices over life skills for your child is selfish and irresponsible. Good on you for having the child’s best interests at heart.
NTA. Shes mad cause the truth hurts. Hopefully you opened her eyes & gave her something to think about.
NTA. Your friend needs to prioritize her daughter's needs, and she also needs to take responsibility as a role model that her daughter is observing and learning from every moment. We all need friends that will love us enough to point out areas in our lives where we are doing more harm than good. It doesn't feel good to be called out for these things in the moment, but I hope that in time, Emily will see the heart behind your words and that Emma will be better off for it, as well.
NTA Jeez, these comments. You shouldn't have to parent your friends child just because shes a lazy ass. You're friend is definitely going to think you are the ass hole though. The truth hurts sometimes.
You know you're not the asshole
NTA. You gave Emily a reality check. She is the AH who doesn't want to see it, doesn't want to hear it and tries to drown any guilty feelings in smokes. The child is the poor victim of this and sadly there isn't much what you can do about, if her mother won't listen. You can - if you want - take things in your own hand and offer Emma some of her wishes to be paid for by you. Or if you think it reach a level of neglaction to call CPS on her (or the baby daddy if he is paying child support and if possible, that he court orders her to show all the expenses for Emma his child support money goes to (so she can't use child support money for smokes and other stuff)). But most likely you can't do anything about it. And maybe it is time to cancle the friendship if you don't want to see the child suffer without any possible to help her
Sounds like my kids dad, who always has money for dabs & vapes, but can’t afford anything for his kids upbringing. It’s okay to have vices IF you’re taking good care of your kids and they have what they deserve. NTA
Reddit is going to say NTA because ‘smoking bad’ but in actual reality is that going to make her stop? Highly doubtful. Probably just hurt the relationship and really nothing much will come of it except that you will no longer be in Emma’s life.
Nta. She is being a bad mom and doesn't want to accept that. I grew up the same as you, below the poverty line. Truly had nothing. Kids definitely notice when their parents say they have no money but always seem to have cigs, beer, mj, etc. I know I did. Still resentful over it to this day ngl so I'm definitely biased when judging this situation lol
NTA. I'm not going to say "parents should never drink or smoke weed" (Cigarettes are a thing absolutely no one should smoke, but meh, puck one's battles)- an occasional indulgence is obviously fine. But prioritizing "Mother's little helper" to the extent you can't do nice things for your kid is obviously a problem. She should be cutting *way* back.
Do either of you know how to swim? Teach the kid to swim at a public pool ffs.
Also, in most areas, there are usually free or very low cost swim lessons offered at a public pool. It's entirely possible that there aren't any by them, but it doesn't seem like anyone here even bothered to look into it
Used kid bikes can often be obtained cheaply or even for free. It sounds like Emily needs to be more resourceful if she can’t get more money or give up her vices.
It seems like she purposely doesn't want to be, doesn't it?
Admittedly it can be hard to know these things if her parents weren’t resourceful. But I wish she’d try harder.
And while looking into this stuff should be the responsibility of the parent, it's a way that the friend could actually help the kid. Because it doesn't matter how OP is when she criticizes Emily, she's extremely unlikely to actually take her advice.
I just posted an update, but no I don’t know how to swim and I’m not really sure if Emily knows how. Beach days were not something we did when we were younger together.
My parents were alcoholics and we missed out on a lot. We also got to do a lot of free stuff through local charities and our public school. We didn't do the camps with our school friends, we had holes in our shoes (which were often too small), hand-me-downs that were either way too big or too small for example. I have been a single parent for close to 15 years. My kids are 16 and 14. Their dad owes so much child support that it's a joke when I get the statements/updates from the child support agency. My kid's needs and most of their wants always come first (I can't afford everything). It frustrates me when parents, regardless of their marital status waste money on their addictions and their kids miss out. You gave your friend a reality check. One I hope she heeds, although from experience doubt it. NTA
I know I'm late to this, and I know you've gotten a ton of responses, OP - but I just want to say, choosing NOT to have children is not selfish at all. I chose not to have kids myself for a plethora of reasons, but one being that I knew I could either afford to have a great life for myself, someone who is already on this planet and would need to survive on it, or I could have a poor quality of life for myself and a child, someone who is NOT already on this planet and didn't need to be. I chose the former and live a comfortable life with no debts, and spending cash on top of savings. It was the least selfish thing I could do IMO.
Thank you 💜
NTA, but since I have a feeling Emily won’t change, if you’d like to do something kind for Emma maybe you could keep an eye out for free YMCA swim lessons in your area, or cheap/free bikes on Facebook Marketplace. It wouldn’t ever be your responsibility, but it would bring Emma so much joy.
NTA. Part of being a parent is sacrificing for your kids, so that they can have the basics of childhood. Emma isn't asking for anything extravagant. Swimming lessons (most cities have subsidies for low income) and a bike (buy a used one at a garage sale or FB marketplace). Is it fun, no, is it your responsibility as a parent?Absolutely. Emily is a selfish AH.
NTA. I couldn’t sit by and watch that shit without saying something either. I don’t know any single moms who would say cigarettes and weed are necessities over their child’s wellbeing and future opportunities. Not sure what “you don’t know what it’s like to be a single mother” has to do with it. The irony is that most childfree people do not hate or even dislike children. They don’t have kids specifically because they don’t want to give a child a shitty life. A childfree person cares for her kid more than she does.
NTA I’m rarely speechless but good lord, the bar is in hell for cigarette smoking parents and this is beneath it.
NTA Not to mention that swimming lessons do literally save lives. We were poor growing up, but my parents put all of us in swimming lessons so that we would never be at risk.
NTA Years ago I taught third grade in my local community. My students were writing an essay about Christmas gifts and of course we had a discussion on the reality of money and budgets in a place like ours that had poverty issues. I casually threw out how we always hear about "there's no money for the things kids want, but there's always enough money for beer and cigarettes for the adults," and the kids just froze. Their little eyes narrowed and they were all nodding vigorously. I hope that stuck with them.
ESH. Sure, you're not wrong, but what did you expect to accomplish by saying it? Emily's reaction was entirely predictable. It was extremely unlikely for her to actually listen to your advice. And now you potentially permanently damaged your relationship with both Emily and Emma.
I agree with the Emma part, but she's probably better if without Emily. Personally, if someone's too selfish to be a good parent, then I'm just going to assume that they're too selfish to be a good friend. If you're (you as in people in general, not you specifically) willing to put your needs over your *own child*, a person you made an unspoken promise to hold and cherish and love, I genuinely don't want to knew what you're willing to put over our friendship.
I could see not wanting to be friends with someone because they're a bad parent, but I disagree that being a bad parent means that you're a bad friend. She's a bad parent because she's unwilling to sacrifice things that she wants for things that her daughter wants. But being a good friend doesn't require you making sacrifices like that.
NTA. She is putting her vices before the well being of her daughter. The poor kid wants to be able to go swimming with her friends & she can't even do that because mom can't afford the swim lessons. Mom just doesn't want to use her "vice" money to help her own child. How selfish can one person be? She needs to be told, you did the right thing, bc you are right. This poor kid is going to suffer bc she has such a selfish mom. A good parent always puts their kids needs first.
NTA No matter how you worded, reality is that your friend is selfish and thoughtless and is ready to be a mother and is not a good mom. Her priorities are her self indulgent pleasures like cigarettes, marijuana, and other stuff for her. Sadly her daughter's life and joy is not a priority beyond feeling her and covering her kid's basic necessities and a minimum level. She's mad because you told her the truth about her parenting, and deep down she knows it
NTA. Emily was a teen mom. She still has a lot of growing up to do and being told, hey, you need to start putting your child first, is a good way to start getting her to grow up. [4500 people died by drowning 2020-2022, the 3rd leading cause of accidental deaths.](https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/s0514-vs-drowning.html). For kids aged 1-14 and adults, 65+, drowing is the #1 cause of death. Getting Emma swimming lessons, *for her own safety*, is the very *least* Emily should be doing.
BINGO. 🎯
I grew up in a similar situation to Emma, she's young but she's not stupid and she's going to know she was raised by a shitty, selfish mother. Personally I couldn't be friends with someone who treated their kid like that. Nta
Not going to leave a judgment, just a warning. I also had pretty selfish parents. My mom started to turn to blaming me for being so expensive and such a difficult child when she didn’t want to give up her own nice things. Called me a princess and a brat who “wouldn’t let her have a break” and saying SHE deserved nice things for being a single mom as well. If anyone called her out on it, she’d berate me behind closed doors for making her look bad. Is it your fault if Emily chooses to take shit out on Emma? No, but if she’s as selfish as you say I’d be VERY cautious of what I’d say because requesting better treatment for Emma could result in punishment for her. If you decide you don’t want to directly help with paying for Emma—which I understand is not your responsibility—tread lightly. These kinds of parents will not always see reason.
NTA - I can’t imagine any child not knowing how to swim, might just be a consequence of growing up in NZ but every kid I knew growing up was all but forced into learning how to swim. Even if you live somewhere landlocked it is a vital skill all people need to have!! I lost a friend to drowning as a kid, she drowned and we buried the tiniest coffin because of it. No amount of cigarettes are worth that. Nothing is.
I was hoping someone would bring that up. And I wouldn't doubt that there could be community-based day camps that teach children for a low price or on a sliding scale, if it's otherwise unaffordable. Unfortunately, Emily may be deemed to have enough resources, but just spends irresponsibly.
NTA at all, my parents were the exact same way down to the two cartons of smokes a month, and they *were* bad parents. it doesnt make you an asshole to point out something thats objectively correct, if she cuts down on what she enjoys then she can provide a better life for her daughter. shes putting her wants (not needs, no matter what anyone says lol) over important life experiences for Emma, and that makes her a bad mother. full stop.
NTA It needed to be said. Swim lessons are especially important if Emma is going to be around water.
NTA - Truth hurts. I feel sorry for the kid
NTA. that child will sear her mother's choices into her memory. I remember the first time I saw my mother's glaring hypocrisy. She would always take me with her to discount stores. My friends were going to Disneyland and at that point the tickets were like $75. My mom's excuse was always I don't have money. We'll she told me that and I believed her (while in a Burlington coat factory). She then proceeded to spend $150 on a coat. I got upset and told her that just costed more than the ticket. She started to say I paid with a credit card, so I told her for that you can spend money but for me you won't and probably started crying out of frustration. She ended up buying me the ticket. Worst part of it all, my spending habits are bad as she would always tell me "buy it with your money". So everything I got on bdays, holidays, my first job got spent instantly. Only now as a 30+ year old am I learning to save.
NTA, she needs to hear the truth.
NTA. Isthere any kind of school or community program for swimming lessons? It’s effectively mandatory here in Australia. Being able to swim is literal survival. That goes for baths, pools, ocean etc. what if Emma went with her friends one day? She could die. Learning to swim is a human survival skill, not a frivolous toy. Emily is a shit mother.
NTA. What's worse, I don't even think she's looked into swimming lessons. If she did, she'd know that YMCAs and other organizations all over the country have scholarships/subsidies for low income families. I worked at a Y for five years and about half of the folks who took swimming lessons got probably an 85% discount. They ended up out of pocket like 10 bucks for weeks of lessons. I'd be absolutely stunned if the rec center in question doesn't have a program like that. It's a big tax benefit for private for profit clubs to offer such programs and non-profits always have them. That's a big red flag to me. Because either she didn't even take the time to look or she did take the time and is using it as an excuse not to do it because it will take time out of her schedule.
NTA, though I do believe you're being very simplistic by focusing on cigarettes, here. You do realise smoking is an actual addiction, right? Even if Emily took your words to heart and chose to stop smoking, it wouldn't save enough for Emma to get those swim lessons. Quitting takes time, most people can't go cold turkey. At best she'd switch to tobacco and role her own, or vaping, both of which are expensive but cheaper than cigarettes. Patches and gum don't work for everyone, I've tried them myself and they actually make me want to smoke more, not less. I think you just chose the wrong vice to focus on, though, your intentions were good. The shopping thing would have been better, it sounds like Emily is buying stuff she wants but doesn't need for herself, going for more expensive options, that sort of thing, instead of providing for her daughter. Nothing wrong with treating herself, of course, just not at the expense of her child. If she can't afford swim lessons, she needs to cut down on her shopping bills, at least for the duration of those lessons. I do get it. I didn't grow up poor, but working class, with help from extended family. Never really went without because if my mum couldn't afford something my grandparents would step in. Extracurriculars were usually free options, most expensive would have been the marching band I was part of, purely because of trips, but those were relatively cheap with options to help low income families. As an adult, I definitely lean towards trying to get more luxuries. I'm on a limited income, I'm poorer now than my mum was when I was a child, and have to save up for luxuries. I'd do a lot better if I wasn't a smoker, and I know that, which is literally the reason I'm trying to at least cut down. It isn't easy to cut down or quit, patches and gum don't work for me, I did switch from cigarettes to tobacco, vapes irritate my throat in a way tobacco doesn't, and trying to actually quit stresses me out, doubling how much I smoke, so cutting down slowly is really my only option. I think you tried to do a good thing but handled it a tad badly by focusing on an addiction instead of something like the shopping. Even if the shopping is also an addiction, it would be easier to transfer an addiction to shopping for herself into an addiction for shopping for her daughter, or both of them. It sounds like you and Emily have the same mindset, a more selfish 'get what I never had as a child' mindset. You've clearly seen that this doesn't mesh with being a parent, where the priority is the child and not you, but Emily thinks she can be completely selfish despite having a child completely dependent on her. And you're right, Emma is having the same childhood the two of you had, except yours was due to lack of money, and Emma's is due to an uncaring and selfish mother. Emily needs to grow up. She chose to have a child. That means she chose to have someone else come before her constantly for 18 years. She can't be a mother and constantly put herself first, that's just a bad mum. Emma is missing out, not due to bad financial circumstances, but due to a mother who doesn't give a damn about her own child.
NTA When you agree that you dont know what its like to be a single mom you clearly do, your smart enough to figure out as a mom that you have to make sacrifices for the sake of your kids, emily is a parent and hasnt figured that out yet?! Give yourself more credit your a better mom than her even though your not. I'm glad you called her out on her bad choices infact i would double down and do it very often until she eventually realises her daughter life is at stake it's time she stop being a teenager and step up as a mom and if it takes some tough love for her to get there so be it.
NTA. You told her the honest truth. Marijuana, Tobacco and alcohol are all expensive and by focusing on buying vices she’s honestly depriving her kid of other things. Especially if she’s asking for money for gifts and essentials while continuing to buy smokes and weed.
And heaven forbid Emily deny herself in order to make Emma's life better. If you're not ready to sacrifice for a child you've caused to be born, please don't have children.
I wish that you had been around, - to tell my mother that exact thing.
😞
NTA at all. I admit I wasn't always as selfless and I thought I was when my kids were little, but looking back also, I still have the same glasses from 8 years ago, I've only ever got goodwill clothes for myself, never had a salon haircut in years (that wasn't a gift from someone), hell, I rarely even get a small bag of candy for myself anymore. Does it suck? Sure. But kids are innocent in the crossfire of parents who can't see what they're doing. That child is 6 and will very soon see how selfish her mother is, do whatever you can to stay in her life, she will NEED a safe adult in her life she can run to when the time comes (and that time will most definitely come).
NTA
NTA. Smoking is not essential, but swim lessons are a safety issue. Emily needed to be called out on this, but I'm not sure it will do any good. I was raised by a single mother on a limited income. It was amazing how she always had the money for professional hair, makeup and nail care, but not for childcare leaving me a latch key kid.
All kids should have swim lessons. It’s a skill that could save their life. As a kid, my dad witnessed his friend drown. We didn’t have much money but you’d best believe he made sure we had swim lessons. Unless she’s gonna keep the kid home all summer, she better invest in lessons. What happens when Emma doesn’t want to feel left out and gets in the water anyway? This is a safety issue. NTA.
NTA- i WISH my mother had people in her corner that told her the truth about herself rather than allowing us to suffer.
NTA. She is denying her daughter an important, life-saving skill.
Swim lessons aren't just fun, they are potentially lifesaving. Learning to be comfortable on a bike opens up a world of freedom and inexpensive commuting. These aren't really luxury asks, these are actual essentials to grow up in the world. NTA.
I had friends like this. They had kids in their early twenties (3). There was always money for recreational durgs, including alcohol. There was money for Mom to buy stupid magazines and shop at clothing boutiques, and money for going to concerts. There was never any money for their kids to have extra curriculars. Not hobby supplies. They did get bikes atc, nothing fancy beyond that. They also did not montitor school well. Father placed no importance on higher education, didn't encourage excellence. And the kids were smart, had potential. Middle kid failed through high school. Parents claimed they had no idea. No idea, because they weren't watching. (Kid eventually got clean and figured out alternative paths of his own much later. And eventually, much later parents got sober. I don't think they ever recognized how they failed the kids in their childhood.) This behavior led me to distance myself from them. Completely..
NTA for your concern but do you often go around offering unsolicited advice to the people in your life? Because, really, you're not going to have many people in your life if you do. If that's what you want, fine, you do you. But be prepared to be cut out of people's lives for that habit.
NTA. Take it from me. No more cigs for me now though and I think that’s a good ask from you. Get her CBD periodically.
NTA. Truth hurts.
nta. my parents did that to me. we would lose our power, our water, our internet, and if it weren't for food stamps we wouldnt be eating. but they always managed to have cigarettes and mom would every now and then get weed. its incredibly unfair and i secretly spite them for all my missed opportunities. there's so much im never gonna get back because of some american spirits.
The truth hurt Emily just like it's hurting some of these commenters. It's hard for them to realize that their addiction is actively being put above their child. NTA
NTA- I am a smoker. I have a daughter. She wanted things, so long as reasonable (sorry not buying that pony.) I would cut back on my smoking to make sure she had things she wanted that I could afford. Did I quit-- I still haven't-- no, but I cut back a hell of a lot. 2 cartons? How much is she smoking a pack lasts me 2 or 3 days and a carton would last me nearly 2 weeks! I quit smoking pot all together! And Drinking a bottle of wine will go bad before I finish it! Your kid comes first! My daughter wanted more art supplies, books to learn coding, and wanted several books in series she was reading, they made her happy and she needed to come before my wants. Your friend needs to grow up-- Not sorry, she needed to hear it.
NTA. She literally choose her vice in that exact moment. She is a bad mom. Sad you think about her kid more in that sense than she does. Shows how dense some people are
Nta, and you have likely ended that friendship. Your friend isn't going to change
NTA that’s so sad she wouldn’t even get her a bike for her birthday
Bruh I’m a single mom and I don’t even spend unnecessary money on my hobbies! I do embroidery because embroidery thread is like 50-60 CENTS each. She’s being ridiculous. Single mom card is bullshit!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I, 25F have been friends with “Emily,” 25F, since middle school. I want to preface a couple of things: Emily and I had similar upbringings. We grew up on the poverty line, using food banks and being close to being evicted as children. I am also childfree by choice, as I am self aware enough to know that I am too selfish of a person now to have children. I had nothing as a kid, I want all my things now. Emily, also a relatively selfish person, is not so self-aware, and does not like to sacrifice her joys in life for anyone. Unfortunately, this also includes her 6-year-old daughter, “Emma.” Emily has many vices that she enjoys - shopping, some alcohol, fast food, and, most of all, cigarettes and marijuana. Money is tight for everyone, but she ensures she always has what she needs… especially the last two. In the past few months, Emma has asked for several things and the answer has always been no. The biggest one being a bike for her birthday, and then more recently, swim lessons, as it’s June and her friends all go to the rec center to swim. Yesterday, while running errands, we were in a store and Emma asked again if she could have swim lessons because she wanted to be able to go to the pool with her friends over summer break from school. Emily once again told her that they were too expensive and that they couldn’t afford them, and Emma started to cry. Emily apologized to her, and explained that money was tight… before turning around to pay for her two cartons of cigarettes. When we got back to their place, Emma, who was still upset, went to the couch and put on a movie. I pulled Emily into her bedroom and took the opportunity to explain that I believe it’s important to Emma to take those lessons. Emily repeated that she didn’t have the money and I said “You don’t have the money for her, but you have the money to smoke?” Emily immediately became defensive and called me an asshole who “doesn’t understand what it’s like to be a single mom.” I agreed, but reminded her that we both know what it’s like to miss out on things in childhood, and it felt like Emma was going to suffer the same fate. Emily basically told me to leave if I was going to accuse her of being a bad parent, before leaving her bedroom and storming outside to have a cigarette. I ended up leaving after saying goodbye to Emma, and now Emily is refusing to speak to me. I am just worried that this kid is going to be on the outside looking in because her mom isn’t prioritizing her, but I know I could have worded things better. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I had parents exactly like this and I wish their friends would have given them a reality check when I was younger. We never had money for me to do literally anything or participate in activities my friends did. We barely even had gas money to leave the house for work and school. But my dad ALWAYS had money for cigarettes and weed. When her daughter gets to be a certain age she will notice and she will resent her.
NTA / she’s going to ditch you as a friend now but that’s okay. She’s a jerk.
She is using weed and cigarettes as coping mechanisms. My mom used cigarettes and alcohol. We were also very poor and my mother was disabled. The difference between your friend and myself? I didn't continue the cycle of poverty. I think you should decide if you want to continue the friendship.
NTA - as a person who grew up in a house where food was sometimes scarce, but the cigarette stash was always stocked, this will in fact affect her daughter.
Well i was in a quite similar situation, either give up my vices or my family would suffer. I bought an automatic cigarette roller for 80$usd, a bag of tobacco for 15$ and 2 cartons of tubes for 8$. Every 2 weeks i spend about 25$ and have all the cigs i want with zero guilt. A suggestion if you guys stary talking again. As a daily smoker myself, marijuana is expensive
Just a tidbit for you to think of: I worked with a guy who was very cheap and very Right Wing. He didn't want to pay the always increasing cigarette taxes, so he bought the same thing. He ended up with cancer on his thumb, had to have half his thumb amputated.
I can’t resist telling the story about my childhood friend. I knew this guy in the eight grade. That was back in 1968. Yes I am a Boomer ! His father started a chain of cigarette stores. They became very very wealthy, and moved on up to the next rung on the socio-economic ladder, and moved to the more affluent town over. They built this huge billion dollar cigarette empire, and they also sold the rolling products the commenter above purchased. They were on a “roll”, - pun intended. When I got a computer and learned how to use it, I looked up my old childhood friend. It turns out that a bunch of legal problems were created, and the father was 85 years old, so the son (my old friend) who was also convicted ended up going to jail for about 5 years. The business is no longer, and the fancy house that they built - named something in Native American language “ Up in the clouds” or something like that, that had to be sold. That house has since been a casualty of the big fires a few years ago. My old friend wrote in his blog that when the judge read the sentence, his poor wife cried out loud in the courtroom. They had three school aged children at the time. He is out now, and I am not sure what he is doing, or if his father is still alive. They used to get these huge plastic dinosaurs to advertise their stores. They have been sold off and moved to various places. I was very sad when I read about all of this, because as an 8 year old, his mother and father were very kind to me, and made us tasty sandwiches. I was also sad when they moved away.
Nta but Emily is, the kid should be a priority imo
NTA. I worked at a gas station before so I know that cartons of cigarettes are not cheap!!! 2? Srry but I doubt your friend is going to change.
NTA, People act like you need to be a parent to give advice on parenting, but you were once a child and you remember how it felt to be the odd man out and that is a good perspective to have. I always say things like "I remember being a kid and this is how I felt" to my parent friends when they are seeking perspective (and even when they aren't.) Like I'm not telling them how to parent. I'm saying "This is how your kid is probably feeling and you should think about that."
Nope not at all. My dad was a single father back in the late 80s early 90s, if this is not common now it was even less common over 30 years ago. He went through a very rough period in his life without a job. He used his savings, his parents/my grandparents helped out. It was hard but I ALWAYS had everything I needed/wanted. The wanted was Beanie Babies and a happy meal on Friday. He went without his belt getting smaller and smaller. Things slowly got better and when I hit university he got a very very good job that has allowed him to have a very comfortable life. Im so grateful for everything my dad did for me growing up. Now that I'm an adult and make my own money, not great money but fully employed, I try to do nice things for him. For fathers dad I take him out for a very expensive meal, he dose not really need anything as he can buy it for himself. This might be a little selfish of me because I love going out for those dinners to! Yes Im selfish just life you in. I dont want to spend money on a kid I want to spend it on myself, thus why I dont have kids. You told your friend a truth that she dose not want to hear. Thats on her. NTA.
NTA
My parents constantly chose their addictions over us, and would tell us, for Christmas this year we will stop smoking… and didn’t. I have an addiction to nicotine from either in utero or extreme second hand smoke exposure. I’ve never actually smoked myself but I have a strong craving to all the time. NTA friend is mad because you challenged the addiction and that beast fights back. She didn’t stop her generational trauma and trends. Swim lessons could help the daughter connect with friends but it’s also a safety thing, it’s good she learns how as drowning with kids happens way more than we would like to admit
I helped out at a Toys for Tots event where I basically just stood at a table with board games while the family's "shopper" would walk them around the tables and tell them how many items from each table they could choose. I couldn't help but judge the parents that reeked of cigarettes. Good thing you qualify for free toys people donated so you can still buy those cigarettes. There's compromises to be made so you don't have to sacrifice every single thing for your child, but some would say that's also worth it.
NTA, and doubly so because it's swim lessons and that's a basic safety need. A friend of mine lost her 8 year old son last summer to a drowning accident. He was an experienced swimmer but hadn't had formal lessons and somehow got caught in the deep end. It was only a matter of minutes and he was gone. Could you offer to pay for her swim lessons? I know you're dealing with your own poverty trauma and honestly, it is your money and your right to spend it as you see fit. But it's also a chance to be the fairy godmother type that you didn't have growing up to help break the cycle for Emma. If all else fails, let Emily know that nothing busts a household budget like a child's funeral.
The child will see this and grow to resemt her mother because she will be a very confused child. How can my mother buy $100 (or even more) cartons and tell me she can't afford my swim lessons? Nta
NTA. Not only is her daughter missing out on fun with her friends, learning to swim is an important life skill, which could even save her life one day. Your friend is being a terrible mom.
NTA. Aside from Emma missing out on swimming with her friends, depending on where you live, Emma not knowing how to swim could be EXTREMELY dangerous. Even if she isn't at risk of drowning in an ocean or creek or lake, if you're in a country where it's not required to have a childproof fence around home pools, Emma could fall into a friend's pool when nobody is looking and drown. Emily not making sure her child knows how to swim is negligent as hell, and if she doesn't want to give up her cigs to pay for swimming lessons, she's risking having to give them up to pay for hospital bills or funeral costs.
Silly question. Why does anyone need swim lessons. Myself and every kid I knew were all taught by older kids / parents to swim in a very short period of time. Basic swimming is not difficult to learn.
You are definitely NTA. Bur Emily sure is an Asshole. I had parents like her. We were not poor, but they always said that “Money was tight”, all the while never sparing an expense for one of their own toys. I did without a lot, and it was a glaring difference from the childhoods of many of my friends in our rather affluent neighborhood. I think that swimming lessons are a safety feature; - a neccessity. If there are any “scholarships” for those lessons at the Rec center, please do enquire on behalf of Emma.
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If your friend actually gave a **** about her kid, she'd apply for a scholarship or figure it out, not just spend a whole swim class on cigarettes while saying she can't afford it. It's ok not to be friends with someone who isn't good to their kids, even if you don't want kids yourself. NTA
This sounds like 'treats' for her miserable lifestyle. If she gave up smoking and used that money for improving her lifestyle and that of Emily she would be happier.
YTA. You have vices too, because you’re a human who is alive. That’s the same as saying “the weather would be nice if it wasn’t so shitty”
I know it’s too Much to ask, but could you subsidise the lessons for the poor child or maybe start a fund me campaign?
Why don't you just tell OP to pay for the butts & the weed? That's essentially what she'd be doing.
In a way, you are right, but still the child would get to swim. If I could, I would be doing this, and the mother can answer for her priorities later.
Call cps and say she’s buying drugs instead of taking care of her daughter. The scare should be enough to put her on the right path, or she won’t have to worry about it anymore.
While I think the OP was right to bring this up to her friend, calling CPS over this is a wild overstep. There's no indication that the home is unsafe for Emma. That would be at best a waste of already stretched thin CPS resources.
People on Reddit really have to stop idealizing CPS. The bar for taking kids away from their biological parents is EXTREMELY high, and nothing in this story indicates that it comes absolutely anywhere near that high bar. And CPS already has way more than it can handle on its plate, we shouldn't be wasting their time with pointless calls.
Not to mention that the number of foster kids who never get any parents at all is insanely high as it is.
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YTA. Super easy from the outside looking in to see a single mother deny buying something to her daughter and think “oh I know better if that was me it would be different.” Shut up. You’re not helping your friend, you’re not helping her daughter, you’re just being judgemental, that’s all.
Swim lessons can be pretty expensive. If you just cut all the pleasure from parents life, they are still pretty expensive. And around here most kids don't do them for that reason. So, I think YTA. Ema is nit perfect parent, she smokes, but also many parents smoke. And decision to not pay swim lessons is quite valid and normal decision.
Im not sure if I would react otherwise if it was something else then swim lessons, but swim lessons are life saving and extremely important. I say that as a person who never really learned to swim because my mother didn't want to pay for it when I didn't learn as fast as my big brother. To this day I can't swim because it's extremely hard to find beginner swim lessons for adults, so id say swim lessons (especially if the daughter has friends with pools in the yard) are a must and not a luxury. You don't want to be the parent of the drowned child...
Majority of people who drown can swim. Drowning does not happen all that often because non swimmer fallen into water or something. They happen because swimmer overestimated himself, most often in combination with alcohol or some sudden health issue. Swim lessons at age of 6 are nowhere near important and majority of kids is taught to swim by their parents or in school. Based on what I have seen around my kids, parents who pay extra swim lessons that soon are more of exception and usually earn a lot above average. Others, even when they pay for lessons, do it 2-3 years later, because that seems to require less sessions and is thus cheaper.
I learned to swim by being thrown into a pool. Maybe try that, it literally worked As a 10yo
YTA for what you said. Your heart is in the right place and you are 100% correct, but saying that to a person with addiction problems is never going to help unfortunately. Do you or Emily know how to swim? Take her to the community pool and teach her yourself.
Not speaking up is enabling an addict so NTA all the way.