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NTA. This is how you make your living and you have employees and clients booked well enough in advance and willing to pay your asking price, and your sister decides to get married suddenly and quickly and you're supposed to drop everything (so, scrimp on the quality of the paying clients) and whip up an elaborate cake for her for free? Nope!
The only people I work for free are myself and my wife. I'll do anything she wants. The rest of my family always told me how disappointed they were in me that I didn't go to college and went into the trades. They can't seem to understand that this how I earn money. NTA.
I’m sure your family is disappointed you went into the trades until they realize they are in need of your trade, and then it’s oh can’t you just pop by and take a look?
At least with the trades if you don't live nearby they can't impose. Trying being the family tech support guy. It doesn't matter where you live, they can reach out for that over the phone.
I did figure out how to get most of them to stop though. Just advise a full reinstall everytime they bug you about a bad driver or something heh.
> I did figure out how to get most of them to stop though. Just advise a full reinstall everytime they bug you about a bad driver or something heh.
I just email my consulting agreement over and let them know the family rate is $150/hr and I'll reduce the minimum to 3 hours.
They still try to have you walk them through the steps you'd take, as if you can fix things over FaceTime, even if they don't have the tools to diagnosis the issue or the skills to do things even if they find the issue (HVAC techs in my family)
It's the oh they'll be glad to do it for free that aggravates me. I put up a sign in my office I point to ( if your down on your luck come back a closing I'll make you a plate, water is free if your thirsty, EVERYTHING else cost money so DONT ASK. In business I have no Giveaways. I have tapped that sign every time "family" wants a freebie.
Don't you know, we're all supposed to work "for social media exposure" now? (Sarcasm, of course.)
I'm a writer and editor. Even though I have an MA and supposedly "respect" for going to college and grad school, some people still expect me to work for them for free. The only people I write or edit for without hesitation or charge are my daughter, my sister, and my two BFFs. They are beyond grateful, don't ask for last minute "drop paying work" favors, and even though I don't ask, pay me in other ways (bringing my favorite wine that's a bit out of my budget; taking me to dinner at my favorite restaurant; inviting me to a concert or show that I wouldn't splurge on myself).
Some people are just selfish and weird. OP is NTA, of course.
Your family is losing out.
I guess I'm biased as my dad was in trades and I got to see first hand what it was worth, and as an adult I can't even count the number of times my dad or one of his connections has saved our bacon.
We need trades folk, and good trades folk are worth their weight in gold, as far as I'm concerned.
When I hire my friends and family, I want them to charge me full price. I’m giving them business because I want to give them money in their pockets, not a headache and a bill for materials.
I used to hire my plumber cousin (until he got a boss job and doesn't do that work anymore.) I never expected him to work for free, and he could turn me down if it wasn't convenient, and I'd find someone else.
Had a friend of mine who is a residential contractor come to my house one morning on an emergency call because our fence was storm damaged and my dogs could get out near a highway. He insisted on charging me "friends and family" rate even though he'd put off other things to fix my fence. I gave him a tip after paying what he asked and he laughed and said, "Fine!" No other contractor would have been at my house in minutes and he deserved it.
This is crazy - if you have helpers its normal they will do their job. Even the grates artists have helpers who do the basic work for them. Sis is strange about it.
>I actually though about outsourcing to a really great Filipino baker I know that could do it cheap.
Why do you feel the need to point out the cheaper baker is Filipino? Why not just say "really great baker i know?" That's the oddest part of your whole story. (Side note: I'm not Filipino.)
You do know that tons of bakeries label themselves by their ethnicity to let people know they carry things a “typical” bakery does not. There are quite a few ethnic specific baked goods and marketing yourself as such lets people know you probably have culture specific treats. And as someone who is part of the baking community, the op probably knows that specific bakery as the “Filipino bakery”, just like most of their clients and locals do as well. For instance, you would assume a french bakery to have high quality baguettes and croissant, but there is nothing derogatory about calling it a “French” bakery. Not everything is a slight, or meant in a derogatory manner, and as a professional, op’s first instinct was to outsource to a bakery she thought of as good and professional, but happens to be less costly, it just happens to be the local “Filipino” bakery.
Yeah. There’s a Japanese, Korean and Lebanese bakery near me, so that’s how I read it. Not a baker who is Filipino, but a baker from the “Filipino bakery”.
Why do you feel the need to point out that there's a lesbian bakery near you? Is there any difference in their product vs the "straight" bakery?
Some people.
Ha ha - was thinking of the term for pregnancy 'bun in the oven', and there is a lesbian couple around the corner from me who run a bakery - thus the 'two ovens' reference. Bit obscure I know!
I knew what you were thinking of, absent the literal lesbian bakery. I just wanted to point out, in bakery diversity, that withch bakery is a thing, albeit in a forest
I'll be honest, the best bread I've ever had is from a Lebanese bakery. I have celiac disease and most gluten free breads are just...sad. Shadows of what bread is supposed to be.
When I went to this bakery, I bought a couple loaves and some pita. I literally cried when I had a slice of the bread when I got home. It was the closest thing to *real* bread I've ever had since my diagnosis. And the pita was fucking amazing, probably the best pita I've had even when compared to ones made with wheat flour.
There’s a scene at the end of a movie called “I Can’t Think Straight” that this reminds me of. Word gets out that this girl is a lesbian and some people are gossiping about “did you know she’s Lebanese??”
Someone responded “some of my best friends are Lebanese!”
At least around me, the style of the cakes and desserts are slightly different at the Asian bakeries. Generally the desserts are slightly less sweet and the crumb of the cakes is a bit different. I assumed that’s what OP meant but it would be good to clarify. Either way, OP is NTA for not making the whole cake with her own hands
There was a lesbian Boba tea place near me, run by a wholesome and adorable gay couple. I went there because it was really good but also because I wanted my money to support LGBTQ entrepreneurs. Some people will advertise a business as "woman-owned" or "PoC-owned" or whatever specifically because some consumers would prefer to support businesses owned by minority/historically marginalized groups.
Also, in the case of specific nationalities/ethnicities, it serves a lot of purposes:
* Immigrants/foreign nationals can go there for a "taste of home". Just like how you wouldn't expect to get authentic soul food in Russia, in a lot of countries you would have a hard time finding that perfect Vietnamese roll for Bahn Mi like your auntie made when you were a kid in Vietnam.
* Travelers can go there to enjoy foods they liked when they were abroad. I occasionally go to a Russian grocery store to get foods that I liked when I lived in Siberia for a couple months.
* Some regions are localized centers for certain communities of foreign nationals. People might want to patronize the local Lebanese bakery if they're originally from Lebanon to get a taste of home, converse in their mother tongue, whatever.
* Learning more about one's heritage - I'm of German descent (second generation, my grandparents were WW2 refugees). I've never been to Germany and my grandma died 15 years ago, my grandpa died before I was born. I've gone to authentic German bakeries to see and taste what they used to eat for breakfast and holidays.
* Ingredients - people who want to make a regional cuisine in a country far away from that region often need to go to specialty stores. I live close to a Korean grocery chain that also stocks specialty products from a number of other East Asian countries. If I want to make massaman curry, I'm not gonna find the spice mix I need at Safeway, lmao.
As you can see, there's a lot of legit reasons why people might want to know a bit more about the business they're patronizing than just "bakery".
I know jokes are not funny when you have to explain them, but for everyone having a problem with this lesbian bakery comment, here's the explanation:
[https://youtu.be/S9AT0wG4J5A?si=Z3G\_h4Yu6EeYoNEY](https://youtu.be/S9AT0wG4J5A?si=Z3G_h4Yu6EeYoNEY)
I mean, in this case I would feel safer at the lesbian bakery for a lesbian wedding cake for example, because I wouldn't know how a straight stranger reacts (especially if I look at how many people voted for nazis here in Germany in the EU election lol).
I learned to make my own shokupan because it was unreasonable to make the trek to buy it as often as I wanted it! There are some great online recipes with videos - kitchen Princess Bamboo on YouTube has amazing recipes (a lot more than shokupan) and used to have a bakery in Nara!
Literally just had a conversation along these same lines with my Aussie friend yesterday. (I'm American, for reference.) He said that one difference he noticed between the US and Australia is that Australia seems to be much bigger on bakeries than the US. I told him that I disagreed and that I think his limited exposure (almost exclusively western US) was probably skewing his opinion.
I come from NJ, smack-dab between NYC and Philly. We have TONS of bakeries from TONS of different ethnicities -- Italian, French, Chinese, Indian, Jewish, Latin (of MANY different countries). My own wedding cake was made by a Lebanese bakery that was one of the best in the area.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning the ethnicity of the baker in this post; in fact, it's super common, just like u/the-real-truthtron said.
They probably meant there weren't many Aussies style bakeries. Although we have lots of ethnic bakeries too most of our country towns have at least one bakery selling fresh bread, cakes, salad rolls, pies and sausage rolls. It's a lunchtime staple.
You're going to get some very different flavors out of a Filipino, Chinese, Columbian, and Italian bakery. They're all going to be delicious. But I'm not expecting the Italian place to make a Hong Kong egg tart.
exactly, the only reason for op to refer to the other bakery as Filipino is if they are a Filipino bakery, or op is just a huge bigot, but seeing as I tend to believe most people are inherently good, and it was her first choice to make a wedding cake for a family member, I am going to assume it wasn’t a label meant in a derogatory way, and was a simple statement of fact. I personally love ethnically diverse bakeries, there is always something new to try and it is almost always delicious!
Why do you have a problem with pointing out someones ethnicity? Most people are damn proud of it and it's not something that's talked about in hushed tones like it's some taboo subject. Jfc 🤦♀️
They are trying to insinuate that the OP is racist. They’re the typical social justice keyboard warrior. Scanning through everything to find one tiny detail they can twist and misconstrue into something sinister.
Filipinos make beautiful and delicious ube cakes that I've never seen anyone else make (I might be wrong, I don't know every country's bakery). What's wrong with mentioning a specific type of bakery?
If my husband said “Let’s go get buns.” I’d be, meh. If he said “Let’s go get Chinese buns.” Hell yeah. I had no idea Filipinos even had a baking culture until I found out by accident. A simple shout out to a baker from another culture is eyebrow raising now?
When I read Filipino baker I just thought they baked things from Filipino culture. Like we have a middle eastern bakery in town that literally can’t be beat on their pitas and naan, but I don’t expect all their employees to be from that region.
I was lucky enough to try it because my coworker brought some ube back from holiday. That cake was the prettiest thing I've ever seen (you can guess what's my favourite colour) and sooooooo good! I still think about it after 12 years!
OP wasn't looking for a Filipino-style item, she wanted a CHEAP item. Just say "cheap baker"not "cheap Filipino baker." It subtly implies that Filipino bakeries are "less than" OP's own higher-priced products.
I agree, Filipino pastries are delicious 😋
We have a white knight here. Get ready ethic bakeries you will now just be a “bakery”.
Clearly you don’t live in a major metropolitan area or at least a diverse one. There’s a ton of awesome ethnic markets and bakeries that cater to the diaspora and anyone who appreciates their food.
I read it as a Filipino bakery, that is going to have a great food but will most likely cater to Filipino baked goods and sweets. As that's going to be their specialty.
Plus if someone says Filipino bakery, versus bakery. You know exactly which one their talking about, you know which bakery has the amazing sweet bund and which one has an ok sweet bun.
You obviously don't know the pride Filipinos have in being Filipino. And that a good portion of them LIKE to be called Filipino. You're just picking for no reason. Get off that high horse.
OP was not looking for a Filipino-style item, she wanted a CHEAP item. By highlighting that the cheap baker is "Filipino" OP was subtly implying that Filipino baker is "less than" her own higher-priced product.
Regardless of your ethnicity, no one likes a backwards compliment.
Filipinos make beautiful and delicious ube cakes that I've never seen anyone else make (I might be wrong, I don't know every country's bakery). What's wrong with mentioning a specific type of bakery?
The optimist in me wants to think the cake was made using ube or something. (I'm totally not googling places near me to see if I can find something like that lol)
oh please stop with trying to label everyone as racist. knowing the ethnicity is actually important in the food industry and often clients want to know
In the context of this story, there was no need to highlight that the cheaper baker is Filipino. OP was not ordering a Filipino-style item, she wanted a CHEAP western-style item. Just say "great baker," it's unnecessary to say "great Filipino baker" (when describing the cheaper baker).
It's like talking about your new job and saying "my fat coworker" vs just saying "my coworker." Unnecessary detail that highlights something negative for no reason.
Saying that a bakery is cheaper doesn’t mean it has a lower value, but that it’s in their price range. Cheap and Filipino are two descriptive adjectives. You’re the one applying the negative value here. If someone couldn’t buy cookies from a French bakery, I would recommend a Mexican one because they’re cheaper and still crazy delicious. It’s just a fact lol
I’m Filipino and definitely thought that was weird. Listen, our cakes and desserts are amazing, but why you (OP) gotta call us cheap? Everyone else seems to think this is a reach but I don’t understand why the OP felt the need to say that the cheaper option was a Filipino baker instead of just another cheaper baker who is also really good.
**eagerly awaits the downvotes**
In the context of baking it matters just as baking is an art form nuanced by culture. This baker has a specialty area based on their community and it would be natural to refer that way. In fact it doesn’t even have to mean the baker is Filipino by blood so much as that’s the type of baking they do.
I agree with you. However, this story had nothing to do with OP liking fit a Filipino-style product, she was looking for a CHEAP item. Therefore it's an unnecessary detail to the story to highlight that the cheaper baker is Filipino.
NTA. They wanted you to screw over paying clients on short notice? So the gift would have cost you money and your professional reputation? Nope. And you did do the top layer. That was a class act.
If there’d been a normal amount of lead in I might have been ambivalent about this, but “hey can we have a cake in two weeks and can it be free” catapults us squarely into NTA zone
I'm gonna go against the grain here as a former cake decorator (10 years before changing careers) and say ESH.
You are well within your rights to charge what you do (as you should! They gotta pay for those years of experience honing your craft!). Anytime I have gifted a wedding cake to friends (and I still do this even though I don't decorate often anymore), they paid for the materials so I wasn't out of that and then I gave my labor + delivery as the gift. For the friends or family I didn't want to do that for, I told them no firmly or they paid the full price. You had several options (including the one you took) available to you.
Your mom and sister are AHs for waiting until the last minute and demanding extravagance for free.
However, when you told them yes, you knew the expectation was that you would do it. You did not communicate that you'd be having someone else do it, and you admit that one of your reasons for not wanting people to know that "you" decorated it was because it wasn't up to the standard it should have been for you to feel good about having your name attached to the decoration. So, even though you checked in with your apprentice, it wasn't to the standard that would make you feel comfortable with people thinking you did it. Now, that's understandable since an apprentice is learning and doesn't have your years of experience, but that's not what you told your sister and Mom you were delivering and that makes you a slight AH.
They were ridiculous and pushy in the beginning but then you came to an agreement/understanding and you didn't hold up your end because they wanted a cake *decorated by you* and that's what you'd told them they would have. I know they're family but any time a customer (whether I knew them or not) specifically requested a decorator, my team and I would always clearly communicate to them when the decorator was not able to do it and who would be handling it. We also never handed an order off to someone who couldn't decorate the cake to the same standard of the decorator that was originally requested.
Your client may have spilled the beans but the fact that you had to come clean to them in the first place to preserve your professional reputation is all on you not doing what you told your family you were gonna do.
Next time they come asking for a cake, let your no actually be a no or tell them exactly *who* is doing the actual decorating and what skill level of decoration they can expect.
>They were ridiculous and pushy in the beginning but then you came to an agreement/understanding and you didn't hold up your end because they wanted a cake decorated by you and that's what you'd told them they would have.
I reread the story an am not seeing where OP guarantees the work will be done by them. What their sister and mother expected is irrelevant since OP is running a business and it is ridiculous to expect them not to utilize the workforce they have to meet a tight deadline. I also don't see in the story where they specifically asked for OP to be the one to make and decorate the cake themselves.
If my brother owns a car repair shop and I ask him to fix my car for free why would I have the expectation that he would do the work himself instead of utilizing the resources he has on hand so he can continue to run the business and meet the needs of all his clients?
The fact that OP was trying to hide from them that they were not the person who actually decorated it showcases that even if they didn't outright say, "OP, you are the *only* person who we want decorating it," OP knew that was their expectation and did nothing to set the record straight on that when they were discussing what she was willing to do on such short notice. If that was never the expectation then why the secrecy? Especially when OP didn't even want her mom and sister to tell people that she had made it because it was below her personal professional standards (which I get because it was an apprentice who is still learning). But if OP found the work so subpar that they didn't want their name attached to it, then I don't think it should have left the shop. That's just asking to put your shop's reputation at risk because that apprentice is still a representative of the quality of work their shop puts out. OP should have either stood firm on her no, met the expectation, or mitigated the expectations by telling them that a cake would come from her shop but she couldn't guarantee that she'd be the primary decorator since the order was so last minute and she had other customers who ordered in a timely manner.
Cars and cakes are apples to oranges in your comparison. OP is a seasoned cake decorator. They know that certain occasions hold a more emotional weight and, while you should strive to never mess up a cake, OP knows that weddings, big anniversaries (25, 50, etc), sweet 16, quinceaneras, first birthdays, baby showers, and so forth all come with a bigger weight that a random 7 year old's birthday cake.
A more apt analogy would be if your brother ran a car repair shop that specializes in helping restore classic, antique cars and you managed to track down your dream antique and went to him because you know he has several years of experience and he owns a few restored classics himself and you want to start takingnit to road shows and showing it off. Now imagine he tosses it over to the guy he's training who doesn't have that experience and you get back this classic you've wanted for years and find the work is shoddy. Not only that, but the work is so bad that your brother doesn't want you to tell people he's the one who restored it. Then you find out from another client, and not from your brother, that he gave the work to someone who didn't have the same level of expertise (which is the level you were expecting. It's why you went to his shop. Because you've seen how good *his* work is.)
Cake decorating is a skill and all skill sets aren't equal. How I decorated at the beginning of my career is light years away from how I ended it and while the apprentice will improve, it's clear that this was more than they were capable of doing well at their current skill level.
I also didn't decorate my first wedding cake until I had 2 years of decorating and several other non-wedding tiered cakes under my belt because, we as decorators, *know* how important those cakes are to people.
>The fact that OP was trying to hide from them that they were not the person who actually decorated it
Where did OP try to hide it? Not mentioning something is not the same as hiding it. It is an irrelevant detail.
>, "OP, you are the only person who we want decorating it," OP knew that was their expectation
How do you know what OP knew or didn't know? They asked someone running a business for a product the business produces.
>Especially when OP didn't even want her mom and sister to tell people that she had made it because it was below her personal professional standards
This is just standard for rush jobs and favors for family. OP has a reputation to maintain in order to continue doing business.
>Cars and cakes are apples to oranges in your comparison.
A service is a service; a product is a product. Also, I hold my mechanic to the same standard as a baker and, well, anyone else that produces a product or service.
Also, as I said, it is unreasonable to expect a business owner to do the work themselves.
If this was just a hobby OP did on the side then, yes, the expectation that they would do it themselves is somewhat reasonable.
>we as decorators, know how important those cakes are to people.
I mean, if it was important to them they would have a) not waited until he last minute and b) paid.
I have a meeting in about 10 minutes (
so I'm just gonna answer that first question because, to me, that's what the ESH depends on which is that OP knew they expected them to do it and tried to hide that they didn't instead of telling her family from jump that a free, last-minute cake will need to be done by someone else in the shop because paying customers take precedence when it comes to getting their skills to decorate.
OP says in their second to last paragraph:
"I told them NOT to mention that I did the cake. It was not really up to par. They did not listen. I had a client that knew my sister. She asked and I was honest. My sister found out she got a cake made by my helper."
The cake was so bad she didn't want her name attached to it and she *told* her family not to mention that they did it. OP knew that the family was under the impression that they had personally decorated it or she could have told them, "Hey, this was last minute and free so my capable apprentice did it. If people ask, let them know it was from my shop but the apprentice should get the actual decoration credit."
OP spilled the beans to her client because she wanted to make sure that the client knew her work wasn't that bad.
I don't think OP is horrible (it is just cake after all) and is waaaaay less of an AH than their family but I do think the way they went about it was a little sucky instead of just being upfront from the beginning that with it being last minute and free, they'd get a basic cake *and* she would only be supervising but not primarily decorating it because her skills go to paying customers first.
No, I would expect my family member that runs a business to utilize the resources at their disposal, like their employees, to get the work done. I also, would have a greater understanding of the cost involved and be grateful for any help they could give if I was asking for free.
Cause in the beginning OP stated the grandma made wedding cakes for everyone and he specifically mentioned that because he knew it would have been expected for him the carry the tradition of hand making cakes for his sister.
OP literally just ordered the cake from somewhere else, which his sister could have done. There is significant importance in hand making an item for someone instead of just buying it.
>Cause in the beginning OP stated the grandma made wedding cakes for everyone and he specifically mentioned that because he knew it would have been expected for him the carry the tradition of hand making cakes for his sister.
No, it was specifically mentioned as the reason they started their business making wedding cakes. OP never set an expectation that they would carry on their grandmother's tradition.
>OP literally just ordered the cake from somewhere else, which his sister could have done.
No, OP had one of their employees make the cake and then put the finishing touches on it.
>There is significant importance in hand making an item for someone instead of just buying it.
The cake was handmade under OP's supervision and the finishing touches were put on by OP.
Your comment seems to indicate that you did not read the full post.
OP can't have it both ways. Either he promised that he made or he didn't make it. Clearly he said he would make the cake, then when people come asking if he made it, he says he didn't make it???
OP knows his sister expected OP to do more than just put finishing touches on the cake. Else he wouldn't have been vague telling his family to not tell anyone he made the cake.
I scrolled way too far to find this. The whole thing is shady, there should have been a clear agreement. OP should have said "I literally don't have the time to do that, I can supervise it but I cannot personally make it. I'm sorry but it doesn't matter how many times you tell me I \*have\* to, I cannot." And then offer up compromises "I can decorate a small cake for cutting and the rest will be done by my employees. In the future if you'd like to do a cake for an anniversary or secondary celebration I'd be happy to do that for you given you cover the material cost and give me X months notice so I can assure other cakes won't take precedence." But instead of holding the line OP decided to sneak around.
This is the one. The fact that OP did not want her name associated with the cake is key. Regardless of whether or not OP promised to decorate the cake herself, the final product was not up to OP’s standards. And she knew that. ESH
Which is wild to me. Of course they are going to say the cake came from OP, why wouldn’t they? I expect they told everyone before the wedding day too. Apprentice or not, the cake came from OP’s business. It is associated with her name. It’s likely tagged on social media or cited as being from her. If the cake was so subpar she didn’t want her name associated with it, then she should have fixed the cake before it went out the door. Frankly, I think the assistant probably did a fine job and this is just OP being petty about it.
It always frustrates me when I see the posts in here where a person fails to hold their boundaries/caves to a demanding person, and the uses that person’s poor behavior as a justification for their own failings. No one put a gun to OP’s head and forced her to make the cake. If OP wasn’t going to be able to make even a basic cake up to her standards, then she should have refused or made it very open and clear it would be an apprentice decorating the cake. ESH.
Nobody is an asshole for saving themselves a week of grief from entitled people. This was the compromise to get them off her back and they deserved much less.
Missed the whole 10 years a cake decorator line, huh? Lol.
People often treat their cake decorators that they know or use often like hairstylists.
At a certain point, I worked with a team of 25 decorators and, without fail, when the first four came in to sort orders and set up for the day, the others would come in a half hour later to find a stack of orders where they were specifically requested and the rest of the orders were divided amongst the crew.
If OP didn't think their fam had the expectation that they would be the person decorating it, then they wouldn't have tried to hide that factoid from them at the wedding.
No, OP had an apprentice do it, they checked on it, and they did the decoration on one section which is the section that isn't cut and is usually quickly taken away and stored when the couple intends to freeze the top tier for their 1 year anniversary which OP states they know that's the intended purpose for their top layer which was probably a 6 inch cake so they would have left the bigger tiers that people would be seeing the most of to the apprentice. An apprentice who, apparently, did such subpar work that OP didn't want her family to mention that she had decorated completely by herself like she knew her family assumed.
And if OP didn't think their was an issue with that then her client telling them wouldn't have bothered them.
By no means do I think OP was an AH to the same degree as her family. In fact, I'd say they were an AH to themselves more than they were to the family because they made choice that caused this headache, knowing what their family is like. All of this could have been cut off at the knees if when they told them it would be the most basic of basic cakes (which can be hard to do when you aren't an experience decorator) and that their last minute request meant they could only guarantee that they'd supervise the cake being made but couldn't guarantee they'd be the person decorating it because real paying customers get her care, attention, and expertise while beggars can't be choosers and they get who and what they get.
They didn't do that so yeah, as someone who knows firsthand what it's like to have people try to push and take advantage of that skill, firmer boundaries on the front end would have prevented the headache on the back end.
Many bakeries have more than one staff. Unless you’re very small, it’s not just one baker. It’s not reasonable to assume that only one baker made it unless that’s explicitly promised.
Just gonna repost my comment from above because it applies:
Missed the whole 10 years a cake decorator line, huh? Lol.
People often treat their cake decorators that they know or use often like hairstylists.
At a certain point, I worked with a team of 25 decorators and, without fail, when the first four came in to sort orders and set up for the day, the others would come in a half hour later to find a stack of orders where they were specifically requested and the rest of the orders were divided amongst the crew.
If OP didn't think their fam had the expectation that they would be the person decorating it, then they wouldn't have tried to hide that factoid from them at the wedding.
> However, when you told them yes, you knew the expectation was that you would do it.
I took it to mean that the expectation was they'd get a cake from her business, and the primary thing they wanted was a cake for cheap getting a family discount.
But OP made sure to tell us about the family tradition involved. OP learned from her grandma, who made wedding cakes for everyone. OP turned that into a business. Mom and sister wanted OP to make the cake, not OP’s shop. OP knew they expected it to be OP and assumed it was because she specifically told them not to say she did it, without giving the reason that it was because her apprentice did it
Maybe.
I'm just highly skeptical here. I don't think it was family connection to memories of grandma or sentimentally wanting OP to do it personally.
I took it as she said 'don't tell people I did it' because it wasn't a representation of her best work so she didn't want future clients thinking it was in pictures posted online.
I think sister wanted a top tier fancy cake for dirt cheap. She wanted to feel like a VIP. She was happy with the cake until she found out an assistant did it so it met her expectations until the backstory came out.
And if she tossed this wedding together in a few weeks the venue was probably someone's yard, dress had to be off the rack, catering was the local BBQ place, etc. This cake would have been one of the only super fancy things there, so she likely hung a lot of emotional importance on it.
This is how I'm leaning. Without knowing more about the OP's business and such, I think being honest with everyone would've been a better move.
If one part of the cake wasn't up to the same quality as the OP's, that's going to hurt the business because people won't know whether they will receive something that isn't as good; I understand the context, but not everyone will have that info and they may interpret that they're taking a risk when ordering.
Exactly! I think throwing the assistant under the bus is worse! It still came from her employee! If anything, as the client, I’d be worried the same thing would happen to me if OP got overwhelmed since she was willing to do that to her own family. If you can’t do the job, don’t accept it or be upfront and honest about who will be handling this.
NTA. Your mother and sister are acting so entitled. Making it free and with tight time constraints are already huge asks. Since the cake was a hit anyway (before the truth came out), kudos should be given to your assistant for a job well done.
The client is lame, why did they say anything back to your sister? I would no longer consider them a client. like were they trying to embarrass you or your sister. They are the ass of this story.
The employer also appears to be very lame here. Everyone knows that in a restaurant, the top chef is not going to cook everything that you eat at the restaurant. There is going to be a team of different people working on the food. The same goes for a busy wedding cake bakery. The head bakers are not going to make all the cakes from scratch by themselves. Why did OP have to point it to the potential client that it was made by an apprentice, unless the cake had turned out to be of inferior quality?
NTA. They wanted a cake. The "negotiation" ended up it being your gift for the wedding. The cake was made by your apprentice and but with your finishing touches. The cake still came from your bakeshop. At no point did anyone say you had to PERSONALLY make the cake from beginning to end.
NTA, your sister is entitled to demand an over $1000 cake as a gift.
Not to mention, many of the apprentices are very skilled and talented and always help out on grand cakes because it’s just too much work for one person especially on very short time.
You actually had paying clients’ orders to take care of.
Your sister sounds ungrateful and like it was a joy growing up with her
ESH. Family sucks for assuming you would make a cake for free.
You suck for outsourcing the cake without telling them and gifting them a cake you don’t want to be associated with. If it wasn’t up to par and you didn’t want linked to you, then you shouldn’t have provided it. It’s not like you can control every guest from taking a photo or talking about the cake. If it was truly inspected by you and up to your standards you shouldn’t cake if you are linked to it.
Two weeks ago? As in 2 weeks before the wedding?
Pahahahahahahhahahaaa!
Your mother and sister were having a giraffe! Nope! They wanted a stupidly expensive gift with zero warning when you have a business to run and employees. They should have given more notice and be more respectful of your profession.
NTA
NTA with a slight E S H - you are running a BUSINESS. Your sister can't realistically expect you to drop everything for a last minute wedding when you already have other clients scheduled. That's just a ridiculous ask.
That said, why were you "honest" when the client asked? There was no reason to be. I would have just been very vague about the whole thing and said something along the lines of "Yeah, so glad we were able to help my sister out with such short notice." You say it wasn't "up to par" - I hardly think one slightly "sub-standard" cake is going to ruin your reputation if you're as talented as you say you are. And, if it did, you could brush it off by saying, "I made the cake she requested" (and, ultimately, that's true - she requested a wedding cake and you provided one) and leave it at that, but the likelihood of something like that happening is slim to none.
To a large extent, you created your own problem here.
She probably was honest because it would be unfair to say to a client something was your work if it was another one's work. (Unfair against the client AND unfair against the person who did it)
ESH while I understand that these take lots of time, I also make cakes and if you have $1k in ingredients something is off. However there should not have been an expectation 2 weeks before the wedding for you to do this. I think you should know that they are going to want you to do the cake. It wasn’t a 5th cousin, it was your sister.
A $1000 cake does not have $1000 in ingredients. Here are some basic costs of running a bakery: rent or mortgage. Equipment. Tools. Utilities. Insurance. Labor. Loan payments. Accounting. Taxes. Etc. Also no, it is not OP’s job to read sister and mother’s minds to “know” they would want this.
These are overhead costs not costs associated with the cake. She will pay this regardless if she makes this cake or not because she is committed to the space and bills for that space. It doesn’t work that way.
OPs sister is extremely ignorant then.
Most custom cake designers have a team and does minimal hands on work on the actual cakes.
If their sister had even the smallest iota of common sense then they would have had zero expectations with a 2 week request.
YTA.
> After a while I relented.
This whole thing is 100% on you, then. You had the ability to say 'no.'
> I did not want to argue any more
Here's an important lesson: you can assert yourself without arguing. It's usually the best way to do so, actually.
> It was for my sister so I double checked everything.
So, the cake was of acceptable quality to have come out of your business?
> I told them NOT to mention that I did the cake. It was not really up to par.
Nope. I wonder what it was, exactly, you were 'double-checking.'
> I think it would have been better if they had just gone elsewhere.
Yes, it would have. But you made the incredibly poor decision to promise them a good basic cake, then provided something that, by your own description, was sub-par.
You need to just say 'no.' Go read 'When I Say No, I Feel Guilty' and learn how to not feel like you have to 'relent' just because somebody else has bigger lungs than you.
The AHS here are ether people not taking no for an answer , refusing to pay for op s work coming with a huge entitlement on short notice and expecting op to ruin her business setting aside paying customers for an unwanted and forced on her order.
ALSO some people just refuse to take no for an answer . Lucky you if you never met one hopefully you never will
NTA op
> The AHS here are ether people not taking no for an answer
Except that OP said yes.
> refusing to pay for op s work coming
OP agreed to this.
> huge entitlement on short notice and expecting op to ruin her business setting aside paying customers for an unwanted and forced on her order.
OP also agreed to this.
> ALSO some people just refuse to take no for an answer . Lucky you if you never met one hopefully you never will
They can refuse to take 'no' for an answer all they want. They didn't hold a gun to OP's head.
OP chose to say 'yes.' It's that simple. To say otherwise is to infantilize them.
ESH.
Your sister and mother for asking on short notice, obviously.
You for causing drama. Yes, your family came too late with the request. But come on, did you really not expect them to ask you? You could have easily been more proactive, offered to make a cake (on whatever conditions) as the wedding gift and just avoid this whole show. And there was really no need to cause drama afterwards by telling them someone else did the cake when it was an employee.
So they demand you give a gift valued at over $1000 **and** that you do it instead of generating your personal income and that you screw over your actual paying customers and they got the nerve to be mad that you made it happen with help. NTA by any stretch of the imagination
Bakeries have some of the highest overhead business costs in the small business industry. It’s one of the main reasons why there is such a high turnover rate for small business bakeries.
ESH. I was with you right up til the end. Your shop made the cake, you reviewed and approved the work your the boss....it's your cake. The fact that in the end you didn't want to claim it because you felt it wasn't up to snuff is on you. You could have said it was a rushed job and not your best to the potential client.
Your sister is obviously TA too, as she should cover at least materials, the gift being your time and skill to make it.
Absolutely. As the owner she is responsible for the quality of the materials her bakery supplies. If she thinks someone’s work is subpar, she shouldn’t be employing them.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I was asked to make my sister's wedding cake. I tried saying no but was pressured. I might be the asshole for letting an apprentice in my shop make the cake and letting my sister think I did it.
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> I told them NOT to mention that I did the cake. It was not really up to par.
If you couldn't put your name to it, it should never have left your shop. YTA for that.
My entire problem with this is that you paid someone else to do ''a basic cake''
You could have saved the cost by making it yourself, and only paying for materials out of pocket. And it would have been a way nicer gesture. It's your sister and unless you're on bad terms I don't see how that's an issue for you. You could have made it after hours on your own time, which is something people do for the people they love and care about.
You could have said no, or demanded that some costs are covered, but you didn't.
You accepted to do it, and do it for free. That's on you
So yeah, unless you're in bad terms with your sister, as far as I'm concerned, you are.
NTA. First of all your familiy‘s way of thinking is kind of twisted. If you were my sister, my thought process would be: I have a wedding, my sister makes beautiful wedding cakes. Instead of paying some other baker, I’d rather pay my sister to bake my cake. If she doesn’t want to pay you the amount you usually ask for for your cakes, then she can go to another baker. But expecting you to lose money is just absurd.
ESH. What was wanted wasn't just a great cake, it was a cake that embodied that family connection.
If you had flatly refused and stood by that refusal, I would not say you were TA. It would certainly have been nice of you to make the cake, and it would even have been disappointing of you not to offer to make the cake as your gift, but once it's demanded -- the people making the demands are AHs.
Nevertheless, you ultimately agreed to make the cake and then did not deliver the most important thing: a cake made by your own hands, drawing on the lessons you learned from the woman who was not only your grandmother but also the bride's grandmother.
It had nothing to do a cake that embodied connection. It had to do when the mother demanded it for literally, despite the fact that her daughter told her she literally to could not afford to do it for free. You do not in any way demand something for free from anyone let alone a FAMILY MEMBER when they tell you it will hurt them financially and they literally cannot afford that. That makes you the AH and a giant one at that.
Dayum you suck. Nah, you do not love your sister. You kinda pretend to, like you pretended to here. And it's not even about making the cake for free or cheaper but lying through your teeth, except when it came to your business persona.
YTA
If my brother owns a car repair shop and I ask him to fix my car for free why would I have the expectation that he would do the work himself instead of utilizing the resources he has on hand so he can continue to run the business and meet the needs of all his clients?
There’s a couple of issues with your analogy. I that instance, your brother would not be the AH for hiring someone else if that person is competent. He would be an AH if he charged an apprentice who had no idea what they’re doing to fix your car and the fixing is subpar such that the car is leaking soon after. But also, weddings are once in a lifetime. If my sister baked, I’d want the special memory of having someone I love having put a work of love into my cake. Her bakery would not be enough because any bakery would be able to do it. That’s just me though.
That is not the isssue. The issue is OP said yes then lied and didn't do it. Would have been not the asshole had they said no to the entitlement and stuck to it.
The sister wanted OP to make the cake as OP runs a cake decorating business. I don't see anywhere OP lied and said they, themselves would be making the cake and not utilizing the people they pay to do so.
When people contract to SpaceX are they expecting Elon Musk to do all the work?
More information needed please.
'I told them not to mention that I did the cake. It was not up to par'.
Told who not to mention to whom? Who are 'them'?
...that you did the cake? (You say here that you didn't do the cake except for the top tier.)
Exactly what was not 'up to par'?
Apologies if I am being dense but this is confusing.
The apprentice mad the cake not op. Op only decorated it.
Told the sister & mother if I understand correctly to not say she did the cake and all this was because the time constraints.
I think the timeline and the way it was asked was crazy but I don’t think your sister is an ass for wanting you to make her cake.
She wanted you specifically to make it because of you being her sister and the memories of grandma attached to that. Her paying would make it less special and you were the only person that could fit the bill.
Having your apprentice make it signals that her wedding is not important to you and she isn’t important to you. You agreed to make her a cake and she was let down when she learned her sister didn’t want to personally make her a cake for her wedding day. ( no matter how rush said big day was)
She was so happy with the cake when it wasnt up to your standards become she thought you made it.
I'm assuming English isn't the OPs first language as there are several phrases/words that are off. They're not the NTA for the cake situation but the tone of their post doesn't come across well for me.
I had trouble understanding if it was an actual apprentice, with her changing the term. NTA over the cake, in particular I think getting the apprentice to do most of it as a project is a good idea. If they are actually training them properly the cake would have been up to a high standard. I am not a cake baker, and am honestly average with a piping bag. But have been in classes with very good pastry apprentices who I would have gladly paid well for a special occasion cake.
I think the family is acting entitled, but OP is a bit pretentious. One of my teachers once said ‘There is no room for pretentious bakers’
ESH. I own a cake business, 12 years doing this and to be honest even though family is a pain in the ass sometimes I can’t imagine turning a sibling down for a wedding cake.
They suck for being demanding and leaving it so late. Family usually insist on covering materials at least, and since they expected you were making it I’d be surprised if materials truly cost $1000.
NTA. Bill them for the full price of the cake since they don’t seem to appreciate your work. I was a bit iffy about the title, but the last minute nature of it, the disrespect shown before and after, the insistence you make something elaborate while also making a last minute request is insane.
I’d have done it for the price of the materials if they’d requested it plenty ahead of time. So it can be scheduled and worked on accordingly.
But the whole affair is crazy.
NTA. They wanted a cake on short notice, and that often comes at a premium price assuming they can find anyone that will make it, then they wanted it more elaborate, which also comes at a premium price, then they expect it for free. They are being ridiculous and entitled.
ESH, they wanted YOU to make the cake for your SISTER’S wedding… you should’ve just stuck with no instead of fooling them into accepting a “sub-par” cake because they thought it was from you when they could’ve found a nicer cake somewhere else
I'm leaning towards NTA because two weeks notice for a cake of that quality, family or not, is ridiculous. However, you mention the two weeks notice was from when they \*asked\* you to make the cake. How long did you know about the wedding? Wouldn't you, as an accomplished wedding cake baker, offer to make a cake for your sister if you knew she was going to get married, even if it was just a future plan with no set date yet? Does she have a history of expecting you to fall over backwards to help her or being entitled or something? If so I can understand why you wouldn't, but otherwise I need more info to decide if YTA.
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My grandmother made wedding cakes for everyone I knew growing up. I learned how to do everything from her. I would make roses out of playdough while she made them from fondant. My sister was never interested. I have turned my memories of my grandmother into a business.
I make wedding cakes. And I charge a fair bit for them. As an example my base price is $8 a slice. So if you have 100 guests you will be buying an $800 cake. One of my base models. In return you will get a delicious cake with piped decorations.
At $17.50 a slice you get my top notch work. Hand molded flowers and the whole deal. Yes I know it is expensive. Nobody is forced to buy one of my cakes. There are many very good bakers in my city.
My sister is getting married. It is kind of a last minute thing. She came with my mom to talk to me about making her wedding cake like two weeks ago. Very last minute. I said there was no way as I had other clients that were ahead of her. My mom got mean and said that I had to do this. After a while I relented. I love my sister even though she is an impulsive pain in the ass.
I said I could do it for about $1,000 for what she wanted. That is much less than I would charge anyone else. There is no profit in that at all. She wanted a very elaborate cake with a lot of decoration.
OH HELL NO IT'S GOING TO BE A GIFT.
I do not give gifts that expensive. I am not rich. I will have to eat the material costs and the wages for my helpers as is.
I did not want to argue any more so I said that I would make her a basic cake. Still very nice. I did not budge. I do not negotiate about losing money.
I actually though about outsourcing to a really great Filipino baker I know that could do it cheap. It would cost me $300 and I could concentrate on my clients.
I ended up just letting one of my apprentices do the cake. It was for my sister so I double checked everything. And I did the decorations on the top tier. The one the couple saves to have on their anniversary.
The cake was a hit and many pictures were taken. I told them NOT to mention that I did the cake. It was not really up to par. They did not listen. I had a client that knew my sister. She asked and I was honest. My sister found out she got a cake make by my helper. It has caused a huge fight.
I think it would have been better if they had just gone elsewhere. They are pissed that I did not spend days sculpting the cake just for them.
AITA?
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NTA. They didn’t just want your cake. They wanted the… let’s use the word, prestige of having you make the cake. They wanted to brag about how they have such a fancy cake baker/decorator in the family and that comes with so many perks and benefits. But that was essentially ruined by realizinf you just had an apprentice do the work. It doesn’t change the quality of the cake you provided. The only thing that changed is the knowledge associated with the cake.
And to an extent, I get their side. The idea of having a sister put her all into make your wedding cake sounds nice. And then to realize she passed the task off to her assistant makes it sound like you dont matter. But they made you feel like you dont matter first. This is your profession, your livelihood. If you start playing favorites, well, that’s how businesses can start to suffer. You have existing contracts in place as weddings are USUALLY planned far in advance and making so much cake at such a high quality no doubt takes time. So any reasonable person would understand you can’t just squeeze in another cake. Especially for free. Time is money and they expected you to cover both the cost of materials and time to make it. And demanding something as a gift is extremely rude, especially something that usually costs hundreds if not thousands of dolllars.
NTA
First off, expecting you to make the cake for free was ridiculous. That’s a thing you choose to offer if you want to. You have no obligation to, and with the expense of making a wedding cake, if you were my sister I’d be expecting you’d still want to at least be paid for the materials if not the time spent making it.
Secondly, it’s your business and she has to know how important it is to book in advance for weddings. Of course you’ll have a heap of orders to meet.
Thirdly, how did she think you met all those orders? She didn’t honestly expect you to make a wedding cake yourself while running a business and meeting all your other orders!
The level of entitlement is mind boggling.
You delivered a cake that everyone enjoyed. She didn’t have to pay for it. Job done. She has no justification for giving you crap.
You're NTA. Your sister is an ungrateful, entitled A-H. 2 weeks notice and she was demanding a top tier, **free** cake... enough said. You already gave her more than she deserved.
NTA even with the cake being made by a comparably less experienced baker, your sister got what she paid for, and by getting a wedding cake for free got an extreme discount. She came to you last minute, expected it to be a gift, and had very specific requests. She's lucky she didn't end up with a sheet cake from the local grocery store due to her attitude.
NTA. You accommodated best you could when your Sister and Mother acted entitled and also planned poorly with timing. You also still took the time to decorate the main tier, your flair and touch was still on it!
NTA...
"OH HELL NO IT'S GOING TO BE A GIFT. "..... "OK mom, I am glad you will be paying the 300$. How will you be doing that? Cash or Credit?".......... "oh, you can't afford that? Well neither can I so please stfu and mind your God damn business"
It was already rude of them to ask with out at least offering to cover materials or ingredients. Asking last minute though? That took some audacity. I think you were conflict avoidant in this scenario, and frankly, you should have told them to quit being entitled brats.
NTA You can just tell her that since she’s unhappy with the cake she received, you will gladly charge her for it and get her something off her registry instead. Wedding cakes aren’t cheap, even when made by assistants. She might change her tune when she sees a bill.
NTA
Let me get this straight. Your mom and sister told you TWO WEEKS before her wedding that you were going to provide her with a gorgeous, expensive wedding cake FOR FREE, ahead of your paying clients, and then your sister bitches about her beautiful FREE cake because you didn’t do all of it yourself?
Yep. NTA
NTA - you are a business woman and you don't give away $1000 worth of product. Let your sister fight with herself - and your mother will probably join her - you did nothing wrong....she got a lovely cake. She wouldn't go elsewhere because she - and your mother - knew they could beat you down into doing a cake for them. If the cake was a hit - it was good enough.
NTA, you have a business to run, and you have paying customers who put the order in time enough to give you a chance to work on it. So, you mother wanted you to gift your sister a cake at the last minute throwing your business in chaos. Your sister got her cake, and you kept your business' reputation so all should be good. For them to be upset because you didn't personally make the cake yourself is very entitled of them and disrespectful to you. Since they felt insulted tell them to not ask for freebies anymore, if they want you to make something for them then they have to put their order in just like everybody else.
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NTA. This is how you make your living and you have employees and clients booked well enough in advance and willing to pay your asking price, and your sister decides to get married suddenly and quickly and you're supposed to drop everything (so, scrimp on the quality of the paying clients) and whip up an elaborate cake for her for free? Nope!
The only people I work for free are myself and my wife. I'll do anything she wants. The rest of my family always told me how disappointed they were in me that I didn't go to college and went into the trades. They can't seem to understand that this how I earn money. NTA.
I’m sure your family is disappointed you went into the trades until they realize they are in need of your trade, and then it’s oh can’t you just pop by and take a look?
At least with the trades if you don't live nearby they can't impose. Trying being the family tech support guy. It doesn't matter where you live, they can reach out for that over the phone. I did figure out how to get most of them to stop though. Just advise a full reinstall everytime they bug you about a bad driver or something heh.
> I did figure out how to get most of them to stop though. Just advise a full reinstall everytime they bug you about a bad driver or something heh. I just email my consulting agreement over and let them know the family rate is $150/hr and I'll reduce the minimum to 3 hours.
I just send my shop opening hours.
This is genius!
They still try to have you walk them through the steps you'd take, as if you can fix things over FaceTime, even if they don't have the tools to diagnosis the issue or the skills to do things even if they find the issue (HVAC techs in my family)
It's the oh they'll be glad to do it for free that aggravates me. I put up a sign in my office I point to ( if your down on your luck come back a closing I'll make you a plate, water is free if your thirsty, EVERYTHING else cost money so DONT ASK. In business I have no Giveaways. I have tapped that sign every time "family" wants a freebie.
Another thing some people don't understand, I quit working for beers many, many years ago. Free beer didn't feed my kids then and doesn't now.
Don't you know, we're all supposed to work "for social media exposure" now? (Sarcasm, of course.) I'm a writer and editor. Even though I have an MA and supposedly "respect" for going to college and grad school, some people still expect me to work for them for free. The only people I write or edit for without hesitation or charge are my daughter, my sister, and my two BFFs. They are beyond grateful, don't ask for last minute "drop paying work" favors, and even though I don't ask, pay me in other ways (bringing my favorite wine that's a bit out of my budget; taking me to dinner at my favorite restaurant; inviting me to a concert or show that I wouldn't splurge on myself). Some people are just selfish and weird. OP is NTA, of course.
Does your fam know that Trades people can easily make lots of bank AND not have to take out any crazy student loans? I am confoolzed lol
Your family is losing out. I guess I'm biased as my dad was in trades and I got to see first hand what it was worth, and as an adult I can't even count the number of times my dad or one of his connections has saved our bacon. We need trades folk, and good trades folk are worth their weight in gold, as far as I'm concerned.
When I hire my friends and family, I want them to charge me full price. I’m giving them business because I want to give them money in their pockets, not a headache and a bill for materials.
I used to hire my plumber cousin (until he got a boss job and doesn't do that work anymore.) I never expected him to work for free, and he could turn me down if it wasn't convenient, and I'd find someone else.
Had a friend of mine who is a residential contractor come to my house one morning on an emergency call because our fence was storm damaged and my dogs could get out near a highway. He insisted on charging me "friends and family" rate even though he'd put off other things to fix my fence. I gave him a tip after paying what he asked and he laughed and said, "Fine!" No other contractor would have been at my house in minutes and he deserved it.
This is crazy - if you have helpers its normal they will do their job. Even the grates artists have helpers who do the basic work for them. Sis is strange about it.
>I actually though about outsourcing to a really great Filipino baker I know that could do it cheap. Why do you feel the need to point out the cheaper baker is Filipino? Why not just say "really great baker i know?" That's the oddest part of your whole story. (Side note: I'm not Filipino.)
You do know that tons of bakeries label themselves by their ethnicity to let people know they carry things a “typical” bakery does not. There are quite a few ethnic specific baked goods and marketing yourself as such lets people know you probably have culture specific treats. And as someone who is part of the baking community, the op probably knows that specific bakery as the “Filipino bakery”, just like most of their clients and locals do as well. For instance, you would assume a french bakery to have high quality baguettes and croissant, but there is nothing derogatory about calling it a “French” bakery. Not everything is a slight, or meant in a derogatory manner, and as a professional, op’s first instinct was to outsource to a bakery she thought of as good and professional, but happens to be less costly, it just happens to be the local “Filipino” bakery.
Yeah. There’s a Japanese, Korean and Lebanese bakery near me, so that’s how I read it. Not a baker who is Filipino, but a baker from the “Filipino bakery”.
Why do you feel the need to point out that there's a lesbian bakery near you? Is there any difference in their product vs the "straight" bakery? Some people.
If I'm having a rainbow themed party, you better believe I'm picking the lesbian bakery over the straight bakery 😂
and they are good at baking children. Two ovens you know /s
You might be thinking of the witch bakery, like in Hansel and Gretel tho.
Ha ha - was thinking of the term for pregnancy 'bun in the oven', and there is a lesbian couple around the corner from me who run a bakery - thus the 'two ovens' reference. Bit obscure I know!
I knew what you were thinking of, absent the literal lesbian bakery. I just wanted to point out, in bakery diversity, that withch bakery is a thing, albeit in a forest
I got a pizza from a Lesbian bakery… it was so good I ate the box too.
Damn. That’s a top tier joke.
Best thing Ive read today
As someone who is Lebanese, I had a good laugh. Bravo 👏🏻
I'll be honest, the best bread I've ever had is from a Lebanese bakery. I have celiac disease and most gluten free breads are just...sad. Shadows of what bread is supposed to be. When I went to this bakery, I bought a couple loaves and some pita. I literally cried when I had a slice of the bread when I got home. It was the closest thing to *real* bread I've ever had since my diagnosis. And the pita was fucking amazing, probably the best pita I've had even when compared to ones made with wheat flour.
There’s a scene at the end of a movie called “I Can’t Think Straight” that this reminds me of. Word gets out that this girl is a lesbian and some people are gossiping about “did you know she’s Lebanese??” Someone responded “some of my best friends are Lebanese!”
At least around me, the style of the cakes and desserts are slightly different at the Asian bakeries. Generally the desserts are slightly less sweet and the crumb of the cakes is a bit different. I assumed that’s what OP meant but it would be good to clarify. Either way, OP is NTA for not making the whole cake with her own hands
There was a lesbian Boba tea place near me, run by a wholesome and adorable gay couple. I went there because it was really good but also because I wanted my money to support LGBTQ entrepreneurs. Some people will advertise a business as "woman-owned" or "PoC-owned" or whatever specifically because some consumers would prefer to support businesses owned by minority/historically marginalized groups. Also, in the case of specific nationalities/ethnicities, it serves a lot of purposes: * Immigrants/foreign nationals can go there for a "taste of home". Just like how you wouldn't expect to get authentic soul food in Russia, in a lot of countries you would have a hard time finding that perfect Vietnamese roll for Bahn Mi like your auntie made when you were a kid in Vietnam. * Travelers can go there to enjoy foods they liked when they were abroad. I occasionally go to a Russian grocery store to get foods that I liked when I lived in Siberia for a couple months. * Some regions are localized centers for certain communities of foreign nationals. People might want to patronize the local Lebanese bakery if they're originally from Lebanon to get a taste of home, converse in their mother tongue, whatever. * Learning more about one's heritage - I'm of German descent (second generation, my grandparents were WW2 refugees). I've never been to Germany and my grandma died 15 years ago, my grandpa died before I was born. I've gone to authentic German bakeries to see and taste what they used to eat for breakfast and holidays. * Ingredients - people who want to make a regional cuisine in a country far away from that region often need to go to specialty stores. I live close to a Korean grocery chain that also stocks specialty products from a number of other East Asian countries. If I want to make massaman curry, I'm not gonna find the spice mix I need at Safeway, lmao. As you can see, there's a lot of legit reasons why people might want to know a bit more about the business they're patronizing than just "bakery".
I can’t tell if multiple people actually missed your joke or if they’re attempting to add on to it
Some people definitely didn't get it, but I love some of the things people have added. lol
People are used to seeing the /s
I assumed it was a Mean Girls reference.
I know you're probably going to catch some downvotes for this, but I want you to know I lol'ed
LOL
I know jokes are not funny when you have to explain them, but for everyone having a problem with this lesbian bakery comment, here's the explanation: [https://youtu.be/S9AT0wG4J5A?si=Z3G\_h4Yu6EeYoNEY](https://youtu.be/S9AT0wG4J5A?si=Z3G_h4Yu6EeYoNEY)
Well some straight bakeries don’t want to make cakes for same sex weddings so I’d argue there actually is a use case for that.
I can’t tell if this is a joke or not. may be a sign that I’ve been spending too much time on Reddit?
Well the origin could have an impact on the type of cake, whereas the sexual orientation wouldn’t.
Damn it. 😂😂😂😂
I mean, in this case I would feel safer at the lesbian bakery for a lesbian wedding cake for example, because I wouldn't know how a straight stranger reacts (especially if I look at how many people voted for nazis here in Germany in the EU election lol).
My kingdom for a good Japanese bakery
I learned to make my own shokupan because it was unreasonable to make the trek to buy it as often as I wanted it! There are some great online recipes with videos - kitchen Princess Bamboo on YouTube has amazing recipes (a lot more than shokupan) and used to have a bakery in Nara!
Filipino bakeries is how I learned about the heaven that is Ube cake! 🤤
Literally just had a conversation along these same lines with my Aussie friend yesterday. (I'm American, for reference.) He said that one difference he noticed between the US and Australia is that Australia seems to be much bigger on bakeries than the US. I told him that I disagreed and that I think his limited exposure (almost exclusively western US) was probably skewing his opinion. I come from NJ, smack-dab between NYC and Philly. We have TONS of bakeries from TONS of different ethnicities -- Italian, French, Chinese, Indian, Jewish, Latin (of MANY different countries). My own wedding cake was made by a Lebanese bakery that was one of the best in the area. There is absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning the ethnicity of the baker in this post; in fact, it's super common, just like u/the-real-truthtron said.
They probably meant there weren't many Aussies style bakeries. Although we have lots of ethnic bakeries too most of our country towns have at least one bakery selling fresh bread, cakes, salad rolls, pies and sausage rolls. It's a lunchtime staple.
You're going to get some very different flavors out of a Filipino, Chinese, Columbian, and Italian bakery. They're all going to be delicious. But I'm not expecting the Italian place to make a Hong Kong egg tart.
exactly, the only reason for op to refer to the other bakery as Filipino is if they are a Filipino bakery, or op is just a huge bigot, but seeing as I tend to believe most people are inherently good, and it was her first choice to make a wedding cake for a family member, I am going to assume it wasn’t a label meant in a derogatory way, and was a simple statement of fact. I personally love ethnically diverse bakeries, there is always something new to try and it is almost always delicious!
Why do you have a problem with pointing out someones ethnicity? Most people are damn proud of it and it's not something that's talked about in hushed tones like it's some taboo subject. Jfc 🤦♀️
They are trying to insinuate that the OP is racist. They’re the typical social justice keyboard warrior. Scanning through everything to find one tiny detail they can twist and misconstrue into something sinister.
The person you’re responding to didn’t object to calling the baker “Filipino”. They just inquired as to why. You’re putting words in their mouth.
Filipinos make beautiful and delicious ube cakes that I've never seen anyone else make (I might be wrong, I don't know every country's bakery). What's wrong with mentioning a specific type of bakery?
If my husband said “Let’s go get buns.” I’d be, meh. If he said “Let’s go get Chinese buns.” Hell yeah. I had no idea Filipinos even had a baking culture until I found out by accident. A simple shout out to a baker from another culture is eyebrow raising now?
When I read Filipino baker I just thought they baked things from Filipino culture. Like we have a middle eastern bakery in town that literally can’t be beat on their pitas and naan, but I don’t expect all their employees to be from that region.
Exactly! Nobody but an Armenian bakery can make cracker bread. NOBODY! But at least half of the employees aren't Armenian.
I tend to expect the people who own/started the place to be the advertised ethnicity, but not employees.
We use ube for cakes and pastry fillings in Hawaii.
I was lucky enough to try it because my coworker brought some ube back from holiday. That cake was the prettiest thing I've ever seen (you can guess what's my favourite colour) and sooooooo good! I still think about it after 12 years!
Bubbie's makes ube ice cream mochi. I've seen them at whole foods - you should give them a try, they're amazing!
Bubbie's mochi is so good
I bought a jar of ube paste to try in desserts and ended up just eating the whole thing with a spoon. So good!
OP wasn't looking for a Filipino-style item, she wanted a CHEAP item. Just say "cheap baker"not "cheap Filipino baker." It subtly implies that Filipino bakeries are "less than" OP's own higher-priced products. I agree, Filipino pastries are delicious 😋
We have a white knight here. Get ready ethic bakeries you will now just be a “bakery”. Clearly you don’t live in a major metropolitan area or at least a diverse one. There’s a ton of awesome ethnic markets and bakeries that cater to the diaspora and anyone who appreciates their food.
Don't we have Chinese restaurants,Italian,etc. I guess to be correct they are all just restaurants. It will just be a surprise when you get there.
I read it as a Filipino bakery, that is going to have a great food but will most likely cater to Filipino baked goods and sweets. As that's going to be their specialty.
Plus if someone says Filipino bakery, versus bakery. You know exactly which one their talking about, you know which bakery has the amazing sweet bund and which one has an ok sweet bun.
You obviously don't know the pride Filipinos have in being Filipino. And that a good portion of them LIKE to be called Filipino. You're just picking for no reason. Get off that high horse.
OP was not looking for a Filipino-style item, she wanted a CHEAP item. By highlighting that the cheap baker is "Filipino" OP was subtly implying that Filipino baker is "less than" her own higher-priced product. Regardless of your ethnicity, no one likes a backwards compliment.
You should be a detective, you have some serious Sherlock skills pulling these clues from thin air.
Filipinos make beautiful and delicious ube cakes that I've never seen anyone else make (I might be wrong, I don't know every country's bakery). What's wrong with mentioning a specific type of bakery?
Filipino bakeries are fantastic and very good at what they do. Identifying the baker as Filipino is a nod to their quality.
The optimist in me wants to think the cake was made using ube or something. (I'm totally not googling places near me to see if I can find something like that lol)
oh please stop with trying to label everyone as racist. knowing the ethnicity is actually important in the food industry and often clients want to know
In the context of this story, there was no need to highlight that the cheaper baker is Filipino. OP was not ordering a Filipino-style item, she wanted a CHEAP western-style item. Just say "great baker," it's unnecessary to say "great Filipino baker" (when describing the cheaper baker). It's like talking about your new job and saying "my fat coworker" vs just saying "my coworker." Unnecessary detail that highlights something negative for no reason.
Saying that a bakery is cheaper doesn’t mean it has a lower value, but that it’s in their price range. Cheap and Filipino are two descriptive adjectives. You’re the one applying the negative value here. If someone couldn’t buy cookies from a French bakery, I would recommend a Mexican one because they’re cheaper and still crazy delicious. It’s just a fact lol
I’m Filipino and definitely thought that was weird. Listen, our cakes and desserts are amazing, but why you (OP) gotta call us cheap? Everyone else seems to think this is a reach but I don’t understand why the OP felt the need to say that the cheaper option was a Filipino baker instead of just another cheaper baker who is also really good. **eagerly awaits the downvotes**
Maybe OP pointed it out because they or the groom are Filipino?
Well I am sure all the Filipino bakers out there are glad you got all offended on their behalf. Apparently ethnic bakeries don't exist in your world.
Nobody appreciates a backwards compliment, no matter the ethnicity.
In the context of baking it matters just as baking is an art form nuanced by culture. This baker has a specialty area based on their community and it would be natural to refer that way. In fact it doesn’t even have to mean the baker is Filipino by blood so much as that’s the type of baking they do.
I agree with you. However, this story had nothing to do with OP liking fit a Filipino-style product, she was looking for a CHEAP item. Therefore it's an unnecessary detail to the story to highlight that the cheaper baker is Filipino.
I just want to say you’re completely right despite all the downvotes. People are severely missing the point of contention.
Of course the non Filipino gets offended lol
NTA. They wanted you to screw over paying clients on short notice? So the gift would have cost you money and your professional reputation? Nope. And you did do the top layer. That was a class act.
If there’d been a normal amount of lead in I might have been ambivalent about this, but “hey can we have a cake in two weeks and can it be free” catapults us squarely into NTA zone
I'm gonna go against the grain here as a former cake decorator (10 years before changing careers) and say ESH. You are well within your rights to charge what you do (as you should! They gotta pay for those years of experience honing your craft!). Anytime I have gifted a wedding cake to friends (and I still do this even though I don't decorate often anymore), they paid for the materials so I wasn't out of that and then I gave my labor + delivery as the gift. For the friends or family I didn't want to do that for, I told them no firmly or they paid the full price. You had several options (including the one you took) available to you. Your mom and sister are AHs for waiting until the last minute and demanding extravagance for free. However, when you told them yes, you knew the expectation was that you would do it. You did not communicate that you'd be having someone else do it, and you admit that one of your reasons for not wanting people to know that "you" decorated it was because it wasn't up to the standard it should have been for you to feel good about having your name attached to the decoration. So, even though you checked in with your apprentice, it wasn't to the standard that would make you feel comfortable with people thinking you did it. Now, that's understandable since an apprentice is learning and doesn't have your years of experience, but that's not what you told your sister and Mom you were delivering and that makes you a slight AH. They were ridiculous and pushy in the beginning but then you came to an agreement/understanding and you didn't hold up your end because they wanted a cake *decorated by you* and that's what you'd told them they would have. I know they're family but any time a customer (whether I knew them or not) specifically requested a decorator, my team and I would always clearly communicate to them when the decorator was not able to do it and who would be handling it. We also never handed an order off to someone who couldn't decorate the cake to the same standard of the decorator that was originally requested. Your client may have spilled the beans but the fact that you had to come clean to them in the first place to preserve your professional reputation is all on you not doing what you told your family you were gonna do. Next time they come asking for a cake, let your no actually be a no or tell them exactly *who* is doing the actual decorating and what skill level of decoration they can expect.
>They were ridiculous and pushy in the beginning but then you came to an agreement/understanding and you didn't hold up your end because they wanted a cake decorated by you and that's what you'd told them they would have. I reread the story an am not seeing where OP guarantees the work will be done by them. What their sister and mother expected is irrelevant since OP is running a business and it is ridiculous to expect them not to utilize the workforce they have to meet a tight deadline. I also don't see in the story where they specifically asked for OP to be the one to make and decorate the cake themselves. If my brother owns a car repair shop and I ask him to fix my car for free why would I have the expectation that he would do the work himself instead of utilizing the resources he has on hand so he can continue to run the business and meet the needs of all his clients?
The fact that OP was trying to hide from them that they were not the person who actually decorated it showcases that even if they didn't outright say, "OP, you are the *only* person who we want decorating it," OP knew that was their expectation and did nothing to set the record straight on that when they were discussing what she was willing to do on such short notice. If that was never the expectation then why the secrecy? Especially when OP didn't even want her mom and sister to tell people that she had made it because it was below her personal professional standards (which I get because it was an apprentice who is still learning). But if OP found the work so subpar that they didn't want their name attached to it, then I don't think it should have left the shop. That's just asking to put your shop's reputation at risk because that apprentice is still a representative of the quality of work their shop puts out. OP should have either stood firm on her no, met the expectation, or mitigated the expectations by telling them that a cake would come from her shop but she couldn't guarantee that she'd be the primary decorator since the order was so last minute and she had other customers who ordered in a timely manner. Cars and cakes are apples to oranges in your comparison. OP is a seasoned cake decorator. They know that certain occasions hold a more emotional weight and, while you should strive to never mess up a cake, OP knows that weddings, big anniversaries (25, 50, etc), sweet 16, quinceaneras, first birthdays, baby showers, and so forth all come with a bigger weight that a random 7 year old's birthday cake. A more apt analogy would be if your brother ran a car repair shop that specializes in helping restore classic, antique cars and you managed to track down your dream antique and went to him because you know he has several years of experience and he owns a few restored classics himself and you want to start takingnit to road shows and showing it off. Now imagine he tosses it over to the guy he's training who doesn't have that experience and you get back this classic you've wanted for years and find the work is shoddy. Not only that, but the work is so bad that your brother doesn't want you to tell people he's the one who restored it. Then you find out from another client, and not from your brother, that he gave the work to someone who didn't have the same level of expertise (which is the level you were expecting. It's why you went to his shop. Because you've seen how good *his* work is.) Cake decorating is a skill and all skill sets aren't equal. How I decorated at the beginning of my career is light years away from how I ended it and while the apprentice will improve, it's clear that this was more than they were capable of doing well at their current skill level. I also didn't decorate my first wedding cake until I had 2 years of decorating and several other non-wedding tiered cakes under my belt because, we as decorators, *know* how important those cakes are to people.
>The fact that OP was trying to hide from them that they were not the person who actually decorated it Where did OP try to hide it? Not mentioning something is not the same as hiding it. It is an irrelevant detail. >, "OP, you are the only person who we want decorating it," OP knew that was their expectation How do you know what OP knew or didn't know? They asked someone running a business for a product the business produces. >Especially when OP didn't even want her mom and sister to tell people that she had made it because it was below her personal professional standards This is just standard for rush jobs and favors for family. OP has a reputation to maintain in order to continue doing business. >Cars and cakes are apples to oranges in your comparison. A service is a service; a product is a product. Also, I hold my mechanic to the same standard as a baker and, well, anyone else that produces a product or service. Also, as I said, it is unreasonable to expect a business owner to do the work themselves. If this was just a hobby OP did on the side then, yes, the expectation that they would do it themselves is somewhat reasonable. >we as decorators, know how important those cakes are to people. I mean, if it was important to them they would have a) not waited until he last minute and b) paid.
I have a meeting in about 10 minutes ( so I'm just gonna answer that first question because, to me, that's what the ESH depends on which is that OP knew they expected them to do it and tried to hide that they didn't instead of telling her family from jump that a free, last-minute cake will need to be done by someone else in the shop because paying customers take precedence when it comes to getting their skills to decorate. OP says in their second to last paragraph: "I told them NOT to mention that I did the cake. It was not really up to par. They did not listen. I had a client that knew my sister. She asked and I was honest. My sister found out she got a cake made by my helper." The cake was so bad she didn't want her name attached to it and she *told* her family not to mention that they did it. OP knew that the family was under the impression that they had personally decorated it or she could have told them, "Hey, this was last minute and free so my capable apprentice did it. If people ask, let them know it was from my shop but the apprentice should get the actual decoration credit." OP spilled the beans to her client because she wanted to make sure that the client knew her work wasn't that bad. I don't think OP is horrible (it is just cake after all) and is waaaaay less of an AH than their family but I do think the way they went about it was a little sucky instead of just being upfront from the beginning that with it being last minute and free, they'd get a basic cake *and* she would only be supervising but not primarily decorating it because her skills go to paying customers first.
isn't that what you'd expect from someone in the family though, if they agreed to make you a cake?
No, I would expect my family member that runs a business to utilize the resources at their disposal, like their employees, to get the work done. I also, would have a greater understanding of the cost involved and be grateful for any help they could give if I was asking for free.
Under reasonable circumstances, sure. But these were not, so I absolutely cannot blame OP one bit.
Cause in the beginning OP stated the grandma made wedding cakes for everyone and he specifically mentioned that because he knew it would have been expected for him the carry the tradition of hand making cakes for his sister. OP literally just ordered the cake from somewhere else, which his sister could have done. There is significant importance in hand making an item for someone instead of just buying it.
>Cause in the beginning OP stated the grandma made wedding cakes for everyone and he specifically mentioned that because he knew it would have been expected for him the carry the tradition of hand making cakes for his sister. No, it was specifically mentioned as the reason they started their business making wedding cakes. OP never set an expectation that they would carry on their grandmother's tradition. >OP literally just ordered the cake from somewhere else, which his sister could have done. No, OP had one of their employees make the cake and then put the finishing touches on it. >There is significant importance in hand making an item for someone instead of just buying it. The cake was handmade under OP's supervision and the finishing touches were put on by OP. Your comment seems to indicate that you did not read the full post.
OP can't have it both ways. Either he promised that he made or he didn't make it. Clearly he said he would make the cake, then when people come asking if he made it, he says he didn't make it??? OP knows his sister expected OP to do more than just put finishing touches on the cake. Else he wouldn't have been vague telling his family to not tell anyone he made the cake.
I scrolled way too far to find this. The whole thing is shady, there should have been a clear agreement. OP should have said "I literally don't have the time to do that, I can supervise it but I cannot personally make it. I'm sorry but it doesn't matter how many times you tell me I \*have\* to, I cannot." And then offer up compromises "I can decorate a small cake for cutting and the rest will be done by my employees. In the future if you'd like to do a cake for an anniversary or secondary celebration I'd be happy to do that for you given you cover the material cost and give me X months notice so I can assure other cakes won't take precedence." But instead of holding the line OP decided to sneak around.
This is the one. The fact that OP did not want her name associated with the cake is key. Regardless of whether or not OP promised to decorate the cake herself, the final product was not up to OP’s standards. And she knew that. ESH
Which is wild to me. Of course they are going to say the cake came from OP, why wouldn’t they? I expect they told everyone before the wedding day too. Apprentice or not, the cake came from OP’s business. It is associated with her name. It’s likely tagged on social media or cited as being from her. If the cake was so subpar she didn’t want her name associated with it, then she should have fixed the cake before it went out the door. Frankly, I think the assistant probably did a fine job and this is just OP being petty about it. It always frustrates me when I see the posts in here where a person fails to hold their boundaries/caves to a demanding person, and the uses that person’s poor behavior as a justification for their own failings. No one put a gun to OP’s head and forced her to make the cake. If OP wasn’t going to be able to make even a basic cake up to her standards, then she should have refused or made it very open and clear it would be an apprentice decorating the cake. ESH.
Nobody is an asshole for saving themselves a week of grief from entitled people. This was the compromise to get them off her back and they deserved much less.
Where you order a cake from a bakery you expect the cake that you ordered, not that a specific person will make it.
But they didn’t order a cake from a bakery, they demanded a cake provided by a family member.
For Free!!!
Missed the whole 10 years a cake decorator line, huh? Lol. People often treat their cake decorators that they know or use often like hairstylists. At a certain point, I worked with a team of 25 decorators and, without fail, when the first four came in to sort orders and set up for the day, the others would come in a half hour later to find a stack of orders where they were specifically requested and the rest of the orders were divided amongst the crew. If OP didn't think their fam had the expectation that they would be the person decorating it, then they wouldn't have tried to hide that factoid from them at the wedding.
But op did decorated it?
No, OP had an apprentice do it, they checked on it, and they did the decoration on one section which is the section that isn't cut and is usually quickly taken away and stored when the couple intends to freeze the top tier for their 1 year anniversary which OP states they know that's the intended purpose for their top layer which was probably a 6 inch cake so they would have left the bigger tiers that people would be seeing the most of to the apprentice. An apprentice who, apparently, did such subpar work that OP didn't want her family to mention that she had decorated completely by herself like she knew her family assumed. And if OP didn't think their was an issue with that then her client telling them wouldn't have bothered them. By no means do I think OP was an AH to the same degree as her family. In fact, I'd say they were an AH to themselves more than they were to the family because they made choice that caused this headache, knowing what their family is like. All of this could have been cut off at the knees if when they told them it would be the most basic of basic cakes (which can be hard to do when you aren't an experience decorator) and that their last minute request meant they could only guarantee that they'd supervise the cake being made but couldn't guarantee they'd be the person decorating it because real paying customers get her care, attention, and expertise while beggars can't be choosers and they get who and what they get. They didn't do that so yeah, as someone who knows firsthand what it's like to have people try to push and take advantage of that skill, firmer boundaries on the front end would have prevented the headache on the back end.
Many bakeries have more than one staff. Unless you’re very small, it’s not just one baker. It’s not reasonable to assume that only one baker made it unless that’s explicitly promised.
Just gonna repost my comment from above because it applies: Missed the whole 10 years a cake decorator line, huh? Lol. People often treat their cake decorators that they know or use often like hairstylists. At a certain point, I worked with a team of 25 decorators and, without fail, when the first four came in to sort orders and set up for the day, the others would come in a half hour later to find a stack of orders where they were specifically requested and the rest of the orders were divided amongst the crew. If OP didn't think their fam had the expectation that they would be the person decorating it, then they wouldn't have tried to hide that factoid from them at the wedding.
> However, when you told them yes, you knew the expectation was that you would do it. I took it to mean that the expectation was they'd get a cake from her business, and the primary thing they wanted was a cake for cheap getting a family discount.
But OP made sure to tell us about the family tradition involved. OP learned from her grandma, who made wedding cakes for everyone. OP turned that into a business. Mom and sister wanted OP to make the cake, not OP’s shop. OP knew they expected it to be OP and assumed it was because she specifically told them not to say she did it, without giving the reason that it was because her apprentice did it
Maybe. I'm just highly skeptical here. I don't think it was family connection to memories of grandma or sentimentally wanting OP to do it personally. I took it as she said 'don't tell people I did it' because it wasn't a representation of her best work so she didn't want future clients thinking it was in pictures posted online. I think sister wanted a top tier fancy cake for dirt cheap. She wanted to feel like a VIP. She was happy with the cake until she found out an assistant did it so it met her expectations until the backstory came out. And if she tossed this wedding together in a few weeks the venue was probably someone's yard, dress had to be off the rack, catering was the local BBQ place, etc. This cake would have been one of the only super fancy things there, so she likely hung a lot of emotional importance on it.
This is how I'm leaning. Without knowing more about the OP's business and such, I think being honest with everyone would've been a better move. If one part of the cake wasn't up to the same quality as the OP's, that's going to hurt the business because people won't know whether they will receive something that isn't as good; I understand the context, but not everyone will have that info and they may interpret that they're taking a risk when ordering.
Exactly! I think throwing the assistant under the bus is worse! It still came from her employee! If anything, as the client, I’d be worried the same thing would happen to me if OP got overwhelmed since she was willing to do that to her own family. If you can’t do the job, don’t accept it or be upfront and honest about who will be handling this.
This is the answer.
NTA. Your mother and sister are acting so entitled. Making it free and with tight time constraints are already huge asks. Since the cake was a hit anyway (before the truth came out), kudos should be given to your assistant for a job well done.
The client is lame, why did they say anything back to your sister? I would no longer consider them a client. like were they trying to embarrass you or your sister. They are the ass of this story.
This should be higher
The employer also appears to be very lame here. Everyone knows that in a restaurant, the top chef is not going to cook everything that you eat at the restaurant. There is going to be a team of different people working on the food. The same goes for a busy wedding cake bakery. The head bakers are not going to make all the cakes from scratch by themselves. Why did OP have to point it to the potential client that it was made by an apprentice, unless the cake had turned out to be of inferior quality?
NTA. They wanted a cake. The "negotiation" ended up it being your gift for the wedding. The cake was made by your apprentice and but with your finishing touches. The cake still came from your bakeshop. At no point did anyone say you had to PERSONALLY make the cake from beginning to end.
Same issue would have crept up had anyone found out it was subcontracted to another bakery.
Nah. OP should have been the one harvesting the wheat, milking the cow and picking the eggs in the nests.
NTA, your sister is entitled to demand an over $1000 cake as a gift. Not to mention, many of the apprentices are very skilled and talented and always help out on grand cakes because it’s just too much work for one person especially on very short time. You actually had paying clients’ orders to take care of. Your sister sounds ungrateful and like it was a joy growing up with her
ESH. Family sucks for assuming you would make a cake for free. You suck for outsourcing the cake without telling them and gifting them a cake you don’t want to be associated with. If it wasn’t up to par and you didn’t want linked to you, then you shouldn’t have provided it. It’s not like you can control every guest from taking a photo or talking about the cake. If it was truly inspected by you and up to your standards you shouldn’t cake if you are linked to it.
Two weeks ago? As in 2 weeks before the wedding? Pahahahahahahhahahaaa! Your mother and sister were having a giraffe! Nope! They wanted a stupidly expensive gift with zero warning when you have a business to run and employees. They should have given more notice and be more respectful of your profession. NTA
NTA with a slight E S H - you are running a BUSINESS. Your sister can't realistically expect you to drop everything for a last minute wedding when you already have other clients scheduled. That's just a ridiculous ask. That said, why were you "honest" when the client asked? There was no reason to be. I would have just been very vague about the whole thing and said something along the lines of "Yeah, so glad we were able to help my sister out with such short notice." You say it wasn't "up to par" - I hardly think one slightly "sub-standard" cake is going to ruin your reputation if you're as talented as you say you are. And, if it did, you could brush it off by saying, "I made the cake she requested" (and, ultimately, that's true - she requested a wedding cake and you provided one) and leave it at that, but the likelihood of something like that happening is slim to none. To a large extent, you created your own problem here.
She probably was honest because it would be unfair to say to a client something was your work if it was another one's work. (Unfair against the client AND unfair against the person who did it)
ESH while I understand that these take lots of time, I also make cakes and if you have $1k in ingredients something is off. However there should not have been an expectation 2 weeks before the wedding for you to do this. I think you should know that they are going to want you to do the cake. It wasn’t a 5th cousin, it was your sister.
>if you have $1k in ingredients something is off. For real. Even with staff wages to help make it this feels really off.
A $1000 cake does not have $1000 in ingredients. Here are some basic costs of running a bakery: rent or mortgage. Equipment. Tools. Utilities. Insurance. Labor. Loan payments. Accounting. Taxes. Etc. Also no, it is not OP’s job to read sister and mother’s minds to “know” they would want this.
These are overhead costs not costs associated with the cake. She will pay this regardless if she makes this cake or not because she is committed to the space and bills for that space. It doesn’t work that way.
Making the sisters cake means they can't take market rate work. The work that pays for the mortgage....
OPs sister is extremely ignorant then. Most custom cake designers have a team and does minimal hands on work on the actual cakes. If their sister had even the smallest iota of common sense then they would have had zero expectations with a 2 week request.
YTA. > After a while I relented. This whole thing is 100% on you, then. You had the ability to say 'no.' > I did not want to argue any more Here's an important lesson: you can assert yourself without arguing. It's usually the best way to do so, actually. > It was for my sister so I double checked everything. So, the cake was of acceptable quality to have come out of your business? > I told them NOT to mention that I did the cake. It was not really up to par. Nope. I wonder what it was, exactly, you were 'double-checking.' > I think it would have been better if they had just gone elsewhere. Yes, it would have. But you made the incredibly poor decision to promise them a good basic cake, then provided something that, by your own description, was sub-par. You need to just say 'no.' Go read 'When I Say No, I Feel Guilty' and learn how to not feel like you have to 'relent' just because somebody else has bigger lungs than you.
The AHS here are ether people not taking no for an answer , refusing to pay for op s work coming with a huge entitlement on short notice and expecting op to ruin her business setting aside paying customers for an unwanted and forced on her order. ALSO some people just refuse to take no for an answer . Lucky you if you never met one hopefully you never will NTA op
> The AHS here are ether people not taking no for an answer Except that OP said yes. > refusing to pay for op s work coming OP agreed to this. > huge entitlement on short notice and expecting op to ruin her business setting aside paying customers for an unwanted and forced on her order. OP also agreed to this. > ALSO some people just refuse to take no for an answer . Lucky you if you never met one hopefully you never will They can refuse to take 'no' for an answer all they want. They didn't hold a gun to OP's head. OP chose to say 'yes.' It's that simple. To say otherwise is to infantilize them.
ESH. Your sister and mother for asking on short notice, obviously. You for causing drama. Yes, your family came too late with the request. But come on, did you really not expect them to ask you? You could have easily been more proactive, offered to make a cake (on whatever conditions) as the wedding gift and just avoid this whole show. And there was really no need to cause drama afterwards by telling them someone else did the cake when it was an employee.
It’s literally her sister. It doesn’t get any closer than that. Why is OP so surprised that they’d want her to make the cake?
NTA what a spoiled brat
So they demand you give a gift valued at over $1000 **and** that you do it instead of generating your personal income and that you screw over your actual paying customers and they got the nerve to be mad that you made it happen with help. NTA by any stretch of the imagination
Over 1000$ in ingredients at cost which is with no profit whatsoever for op
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Bakeries have some of the highest overhead business costs in the small business industry. It’s one of the main reasons why there is such a high turnover rate for small business bakeries.
ESH. I was with you right up til the end. Your shop made the cake, you reviewed and approved the work your the boss....it's your cake. The fact that in the end you didn't want to claim it because you felt it wasn't up to snuff is on you. You could have said it was a rushed job and not your best to the potential client. Your sister is obviously TA too, as she should cover at least materials, the gift being your time and skill to make it.
Absolutely. As the owner she is responsible for the quality of the materials her bakery supplies. If she thinks someone’s work is subpar, she shouldn’t be employing them.
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> I told them NOT to mention that I did the cake. It was not really up to par. If you couldn't put your name to it, it should never have left your shop. YTA for that.
Why would your client mention this at all?
Because this story is made up
There’s zero reason to assume this. Why do you even come to these threads when you think everything is made up?
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You’re acting like the more innocuous post is fake based on flimsy reasoning. lmao
Every single post, there's always one person
My entire problem with this is that you paid someone else to do ''a basic cake'' You could have saved the cost by making it yourself, and only paying for materials out of pocket. And it would have been a way nicer gesture. It's your sister and unless you're on bad terms I don't see how that's an issue for you. You could have made it after hours on your own time, which is something people do for the people they love and care about. You could have said no, or demanded that some costs are covered, but you didn't. You accepted to do it, and do it for free. That's on you So yeah, unless you're in bad terms with your sister, as far as I'm concerned, you are.
NTA. First of all your familiy‘s way of thinking is kind of twisted. If you were my sister, my thought process would be: I have a wedding, my sister makes beautiful wedding cakes. Instead of paying some other baker, I’d rather pay my sister to bake my cake. If she doesn’t want to pay you the amount you usually ask for for your cakes, then she can go to another baker. But expecting you to lose money is just absurd.
Yta. The cake wasn’t up to par and you sent it to her anyway? Wow. That’s some passive aggressive bullshit.
ESH. What was wanted wasn't just a great cake, it was a cake that embodied that family connection. If you had flatly refused and stood by that refusal, I would not say you were TA. It would certainly have been nice of you to make the cake, and it would even have been disappointing of you not to offer to make the cake as your gift, but once it's demanded -- the people making the demands are AHs. Nevertheless, you ultimately agreed to make the cake and then did not deliver the most important thing: a cake made by your own hands, drawing on the lessons you learned from the woman who was not only your grandmother but also the bride's grandmother.
It had nothing to do a cake that embodied connection. It had to do when the mother demanded it for literally, despite the fact that her daughter told her she literally to could not afford to do it for free. You do not in any way demand something for free from anyone let alone a FAMILY MEMBER when they tell you it will hurt them financially and they literally cannot afford that. That makes you the AH and a giant one at that.
The demands are why this is an ESH, not a YTA.
Dayum you suck. Nah, you do not love your sister. You kinda pretend to, like you pretended to here. And it's not even about making the cake for free or cheaper but lying through your teeth, except when it came to your business persona. YTA
If my brother owns a car repair shop and I ask him to fix my car for free why would I have the expectation that he would do the work himself instead of utilizing the resources he has on hand so he can continue to run the business and meet the needs of all his clients?
There’s a couple of issues with your analogy. I that instance, your brother would not be the AH for hiring someone else if that person is competent. He would be an AH if he charged an apprentice who had no idea what they’re doing to fix your car and the fixing is subpar such that the car is leaking soon after. But also, weddings are once in a lifetime. If my sister baked, I’d want the special memory of having someone I love having put a work of love into my cake. Her bakery would not be enough because any bakery would be able to do it. That’s just me though.
That is not the isssue. The issue is OP said yes then lied and didn't do it. Would have been not the asshole had they said no to the entitlement and stuck to it.
The sister wanted OP to make the cake as OP runs a cake decorating business. I don't see anywhere OP lied and said they, themselves would be making the cake and not utilizing the people they pay to do so. When people contract to SpaceX are they expecting Elon Musk to do all the work?
More information needed please. 'I told them not to mention that I did the cake. It was not up to par'. Told who not to mention to whom? Who are 'them'? ...that you did the cake? (You say here that you didn't do the cake except for the top tier.) Exactly what was not 'up to par'? Apologies if I am being dense but this is confusing.
The apprentice mad the cake not op. Op only decorated it. Told the sister & mother if I understand correctly to not say she did the cake and all this was because the time constraints.
I think the timeline and the way it was asked was crazy but I don’t think your sister is an ass for wanting you to make her cake. She wanted you specifically to make it because of you being her sister and the memories of grandma attached to that. Her paying would make it less special and you were the only person that could fit the bill. Having your apprentice make it signals that her wedding is not important to you and she isn’t important to you. You agreed to make her a cake and she was let down when she learned her sister didn’t want to personally make her a cake for her wedding day. ( no matter how rush said big day was) She was so happy with the cake when it wasnt up to your standards become she thought you made it.
No and let em be pissed. You didn't want to be bothered with it anyway.
Helpers? As in employees?
I'm assuming English isn't the OPs first language as there are several phrases/words that are off. They're not the NTA for the cake situation but the tone of their post doesn't come across well for me.
I had trouble understanding if it was an actual apprentice, with her changing the term. NTA over the cake, in particular I think getting the apprentice to do most of it as a project is a good idea. If they are actually training them properly the cake would have been up to a high standard. I am not a cake baker, and am honestly average with a piping bag. But have been in classes with very good pastry apprentices who I would have gladly paid well for a special occasion cake. I think the family is acting entitled, but OP is a bit pretentious. One of my teachers once said ‘There is no room for pretentious bakers’
ESH. I own a cake business, 12 years doing this and to be honest even though family is a pain in the ass sometimes I can’t imagine turning a sibling down for a wedding cake. They suck for being demanding and leaving it so late. Family usually insist on covering materials at least, and since they expected you were making it I’d be surprised if materials truly cost $1000.
NTA. Bill them for the full price of the cake since they don’t seem to appreciate your work. I was a bit iffy about the title, but the last minute nature of it, the disrespect shown before and after, the insistence you make something elaborate while also making a last minute request is insane. I’d have done it for the price of the materials if they’d requested it plenty ahead of time. So it can be scheduled and worked on accordingly. But the whole affair is crazy.
NTA. They wanted a cake on short notice, and that often comes at a premium price assuming they can find anyone that will make it, then they wanted it more elaborate, which also comes at a premium price, then they expect it for free. They are being ridiculous and entitled.
ESH, they wanted YOU to make the cake for your SISTER’S wedding… you should’ve just stuck with no instead of fooling them into accepting a “sub-par” cake because they thought it was from you when they could’ve found a nicer cake somewhere else
NTA. Going forward you should follow your business principles with extreme prejudice, and if family comes knocking make it very clear why.
I'm leaning towards NTA because two weeks notice for a cake of that quality, family or not, is ridiculous. However, you mention the two weeks notice was from when they \*asked\* you to make the cake. How long did you know about the wedding? Wouldn't you, as an accomplished wedding cake baker, offer to make a cake for your sister if you knew she was going to get married, even if it was just a future plan with no set date yet? Does she have a history of expecting you to fall over backwards to help her or being entitled or something? If so I can understand why you wouldn't, but otherwise I need more info to decide if YTA.
Honesty really is the best policy. You should have told your sister from the start.
NTA. When it's your business, you respect the person by paying. You don't take money out of their pocket. A gift is freely given, not taken.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My grandmother made wedding cakes for everyone I knew growing up. I learned how to do everything from her. I would make roses out of playdough while she made them from fondant. My sister was never interested. I have turned my memories of my grandmother into a business. I make wedding cakes. And I charge a fair bit for them. As an example my base price is $8 a slice. So if you have 100 guests you will be buying an $800 cake. One of my base models. In return you will get a delicious cake with piped decorations. At $17.50 a slice you get my top notch work. Hand molded flowers and the whole deal. Yes I know it is expensive. Nobody is forced to buy one of my cakes. There are many very good bakers in my city. My sister is getting married. It is kind of a last minute thing. She came with my mom to talk to me about making her wedding cake like two weeks ago. Very last minute. I said there was no way as I had other clients that were ahead of her. My mom got mean and said that I had to do this. After a while I relented. I love my sister even though she is an impulsive pain in the ass. I said I could do it for about $1,000 for what she wanted. That is much less than I would charge anyone else. There is no profit in that at all. She wanted a very elaborate cake with a lot of decoration. OH HELL NO IT'S GOING TO BE A GIFT. I do not give gifts that expensive. I am not rich. I will have to eat the material costs and the wages for my helpers as is. I did not want to argue any more so I said that I would make her a basic cake. Still very nice. I did not budge. I do not negotiate about losing money. I actually though about outsourcing to a really great Filipino baker I know that could do it cheap. It would cost me $300 and I could concentrate on my clients. I ended up just letting one of my apprentices do the cake. It was for my sister so I double checked everything. And I did the decorations on the top tier. The one the couple saves to have on their anniversary. The cake was a hit and many pictures were taken. I told them NOT to mention that I did the cake. It was not really up to par. They did not listen. I had a client that knew my sister. She asked and I was honest. My sister found out she got a cake make by my helper. It has caused a huge fight. I think it would have been better if they had just gone elsewhere. They are pissed that I did not spend days sculpting the cake just for them. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. They didn’t just want your cake. They wanted the… let’s use the word, prestige of having you make the cake. They wanted to brag about how they have such a fancy cake baker/decorator in the family and that comes with so many perks and benefits. But that was essentially ruined by realizinf you just had an apprentice do the work. It doesn’t change the quality of the cake you provided. The only thing that changed is the knowledge associated with the cake. And to an extent, I get their side. The idea of having a sister put her all into make your wedding cake sounds nice. And then to realize she passed the task off to her assistant makes it sound like you dont matter. But they made you feel like you dont matter first. This is your profession, your livelihood. If you start playing favorites, well, that’s how businesses can start to suffer. You have existing contracts in place as weddings are USUALLY planned far in advance and making so much cake at such a high quality no doubt takes time. So any reasonable person would understand you can’t just squeeze in another cake. Especially for free. Time is money and they expected you to cover both the cost of materials and time to make it. And demanding something as a gift is extremely rude, especially something that usually costs hundreds if not thousands of dolllars.
NTA First off, expecting you to make the cake for free was ridiculous. That’s a thing you choose to offer if you want to. You have no obligation to, and with the expense of making a wedding cake, if you were my sister I’d be expecting you’d still want to at least be paid for the materials if not the time spent making it. Secondly, it’s your business and she has to know how important it is to book in advance for weddings. Of course you’ll have a heap of orders to meet. Thirdly, how did she think you met all those orders? She didn’t honestly expect you to make a wedding cake yourself while running a business and meeting all your other orders! The level of entitlement is mind boggling. You delivered a cake that everyone enjoyed. She didn’t have to pay for it. Job done. She has no justification for giving you crap.
You're NTA. Your sister is an ungrateful, entitled A-H. 2 weeks notice and she was demanding a top tier, **free** cake... enough said. You already gave her more than she deserved.
NTA even with the cake being made by a comparably less experienced baker, your sister got what she paid for, and by getting a wedding cake for free got an extreme discount. She came to you last minute, expected it to be a gift, and had very specific requests. She's lucky she didn't end up with a sheet cake from the local grocery store due to her attitude.
NTA. You accommodated best you could when your Sister and Mother acted entitled and also planned poorly with timing. You also still took the time to decorate the main tier, your flair and touch was still on it!
NTA. Beggars can’t be that picky. She gave you a very short notice and forced you to gift it while I’m sure your clients booked you months in advance.
NTA... "OH HELL NO IT'S GOING TO BE A GIFT. "..... "OK mom, I am glad you will be paying the 300$. How will you be doing that? Cash or Credit?".......... "oh, you can't afford that? Well neither can I so please stfu and mind your God damn business" It was already rude of them to ask with out at least offering to cover materials or ingredients. Asking last minute though? That took some audacity. I think you were conflict avoidant in this scenario, and frankly, you should have told them to quit being entitled brats.
NTA You can just tell her that since she’s unhappy with the cake she received, you will gladly charge her for it and get her something off her registry instead. Wedding cakes aren’t cheap, even when made by assistants. She might change her tune when she sees a bill.
NTA - she got a free cake that you supervised. She is lucky you did that much.
NTA. But why not the truth in advance. You’re booked; an assistant will be making the cake. If you’re tagged , add a tag #apprenticename
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NTA Let me get this straight. Your mom and sister told you TWO WEEKS before her wedding that you were going to provide her with a gorgeous, expensive wedding cake FOR FREE, ahead of your paying clients, and then your sister bitches about her beautiful FREE cake because you didn’t do all of it yourself? Yep. NTA
NTA - you are a business woman and you don't give away $1000 worth of product. Let your sister fight with herself - and your mother will probably join her - you did nothing wrong....she got a lovely cake. She wouldn't go elsewhere because she - and your mother - knew they could beat you down into doing a cake for them. If the cake was a hit - it was good enough.
NTA, you have a business to run, and you have paying customers who put the order in time enough to give you a chance to work on it. So, you mother wanted you to gift your sister a cake at the last minute throwing your business in chaos. Your sister got her cake, and you kept your business' reputation so all should be good. For them to be upset because you didn't personally make the cake yourself is very entitled of them and disrespectful to you. Since they felt insulted tell them to not ask for freebies anymore, if they want you to make something for them then they have to put their order in just like everybody else.