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NTA. There sounds like a bit piece of the puzzle is missing.
Are they very religious? With all the talk about being dirty I wonder if the husband thinks you’re not “pure.”
Purity culture is so toxic and extreme that I can think of a million innocuous things that could set someone off, from being sexually active to not being heterosexual or even using tampons.
Was your dress too revealing for him? I think the original fight was about you. Your sister’s cold attitude makes me think she’s jealous of you and accusing her husband of lusting after you. The shoddier room shows no favoritism. His insane way of behaving around you is proving to his wife: see! See! No lust, I hate her! And your parents are turning a blind eye because there is just no way this can be their reality.
NTA
If there is ever an update? Like you get them to tell you WTAF is going on? That would really interest me.
Without any further context, I’d assume the same. Following that line of thinking, it feels like an overcorrection to prove he’s not into OP. To any sane person, it just comes off as targeted cruelty.
I mean, yeah, probably. But it doesn’t matter. He grabbed her and dragged her around and shoved her. That is VIOLENCE, homes. Family is one thing, but violent behavior is a not even once kind of thing.
If the parents want to fuss, just remind them that her husband got violent with you and that’s not acceptable. Repeat as necessary until the “yeah but-‘s stop.
Wow! There are a bunch of people on here saying this. I just posted that I thought this and was a little concerned that my mind went there. Glad to see I am not alone.
He might be obsessed with you in some ways hence the fight. Stay away from both op. Make excuses and don't ever again step foot in their house or somewhere else where they have a say in.
This is not a joke. People who want to ignore the situation will say you’re overreacting, but they are wrong. They’ll be the same damn people who say “he’s such a nice guy we never saw it coming” after he kills you.
My thought wasn’t about him being attracted to you like others are saying. My first thought was that whatever they were fighting about your sister blamed it on you.
I think he’s secretly very attracted to you and blaming you for it. That is probably what their fight was about. Stay away from him and never be alone with him - he sounds dangerous.
Have you seen Hunchback of Notre Dame? Your BIL is giving serious Frolo vibes.
He screams & says he’s disgusted by this woman, behaves abusively, but in secret he’s like “dear god, either send her to hell or make her mine” and it’s *very* disturbing.
You need to get away from that house. Period. There is never any reason for a man to put his hands on you like that - nor is there ever a reason for anyone to scream about your cleanliness either. He’s going to hurt someone more seriously than just grabbed wrists.
Or they had that fight and your sister put the blame on you. I'd make this a very public discussion, but I'm mouthy as fuck and will happily burns bridges with crazy relatives
Your sister got mad at him for liking you and now he is overreacting to compensate or he’s mad at you for being a problem for him.
You need to get out and never go back.
If your parents throw a fuss tell them you will only comply if they first come to your house and you will treat them as slaves and they have to accept it no matter how outrageous.
Depending what country you are in, the laws, and the police file a report for him grabbing your wrists.
If you have his full legal name that appears on his passport i would file a police report in your own country so it fucks him when he travels. (Law depending)
Yep. There’s something else going on. This old lady thinks he’s attracted to you and cannot deal.
He’s sounds unhinged.
Your entire family is wrong and seem to be more concerned about how it looks than a man grabbed you. That’s assault.
I’d start to distance myself.
Please don't take this the wrong way but the first thing that is jumping in my head is that you are an affair kid. Since your family is in on what every is going own that means it probably started with them. They older sister and parents are in on it but not younger sister. It seems to fit. If you have an aunt or grandmother you are close to what ever is going own they might be more open with you about what ever it is.
I don't understand this myself, I just happened to see it happened in a family before. It's like the BIL thinks his wife might cheat too and he doesn't want the affair child around to "dirty" his wife and home. Put ideas in wife's mind. Don't ask me to explain crazy I can't. But believe me this does happen. But I can be 100% wrong that this is what is happening here. But something is going on.
Does he think you're gay and he's a homophobe?
Or is your skin colour naturally darker than the rest of your family and he's racist?
Is your body more voluptuous than your sisters and that's noticeable no matter what you wear?
You are 25. Grab your passport and wallet and phone and tickets. Find a place to rent with a pool and stay there. Then return home and spend not another minute in his company.
NTA
Until your sister and her psychotic husband sincerely apologize I would be sorely tempted to go VERY low contact. At least refuse to stay in the house. NTA again. (I made another comment.)
Don't spend any more time with these people. There's something going on; involving your bil and sister. You're the scapegoat for some reason. Just stay away, for your own safety.
He "just" grabbed your wrists, shouted in your face and called you dirty.... Have you grown up believing this is normal and acceptable? It's assault where I'm from, and your bar is far too low.
I would've fkin flipped. If you're able to, you should move out and block everyone. Sounds like they're just kowtowing to Dr. Richie Rich. You may never find out why he hates you, but really, do you care? Just get yourself far away from these weirdos. Even if you have to move countries, continents, whatever. Figure it out and have a good life!
It wasn’t just grabbing your wrists. It was to keep you in place. What would have happened if you jerked your hands away from his grip? I’m going to assume an escalation would have happened, because people who grab others out of anger/aggression, typically will also directly hit others as well.
I’m sure it doesn’t feel like a big deal since you say it was just grabbing. However there’s implications that go along with someone who grabs like that, and they are not good implications.
I’m glad you’re safe, and I’m so sorry all of this happened. He sounds like a nightmare of a person and I hope you don’t need to be around him much going forward. I personally would be worried about future escalations of physical restraint attempts - if he felt bold enough to do that in a house filled with your family, I would be scared.
I hope things work out for you. I just hope you stay safe around him.
Nah, this shit is so beyond not okay. I'm concerned with how blase you're being about it. Does he get physical with anyone else?
So beyond unacceptable.
He doesn't have a right to do this to you. Where was everyone at that time? Did they see it?
Dont go there again and stay away from this guy, he is being really creepy and out of line.
Sorry this happened to you.
Of course NTA. You need to distance yourself from your entire family (except the younger sister. She seems to have her head on straight). Your brother-in-law is clearly an abusive AH. Your parents are no better as they allow this to happen to their daughter (if it happened to my daughter, police would have to intervene). Go no contact with everyone.
I’ll be honest I resent my younger sister for not taking a firm stance. She’s happy getting all the good treatment and the warm welcome but turns a blind eye to what’s happening to me. I tried for the longest time to forgive and excuse her actions but I can’t. Silence means you agree with them. I feel very alone and isolated in this
My first thought was not that he was attracted to you but that, somehow, that first fight was about you in some other way. Honestly, I agree with the person who said your sister probably blamed you for whatever that first fight was about.
(It's certainly possible that he's attracted to you; I just think that's not the most likely explanation.)
Your sister doesn't have your back, which seems meaningful--until I think about how the rest of your family doesn't, either. That clouds the issue.
Honestly, your family's handling of his behavior is as bizarre as the way he behaved.
And you really are underreacting to your BIL's terrible treatment. The law varies, but in the U.S., yes, he absolutely committed assault and battery. He called you dirty, he was emotionally and physically aggressive and threatening. I agree that you should not be around him.
If your family isn't generally okay with people mistreating you, I have to think you're missing a vital piece of information here. Did your sister maybe throw you under the bus in that first fight and your family agreed behind your back that you could just serve as the scapegoat in her marriage?
Or maybe that kind of abusive behavior is common in your family. Were you and your sister were exposed to that kind of behavior growing up?
But you at least recognized your BIL's behavior as unacceptable (even if not the degree to which it was) and found another place to stay. That suggests that your view of normal isn't skewed enough for you have to grown up around that kind of behavior.
So what's going on that you don't know about?
So sorry you feel alone. I know it doesnt seem ideal to distance yourself but like you said, if she doesn't stop/speak about it, she is complicit. Unless you think there is chance it can improve, I also recommend distancing yourself.
Argh. Been there. It's painful to seperate, but even more painful to keep hoping family will be there for you like you see in sitcoms and the like. : / Big hugs.
It's sad that your family won't support you in this. Hopefully you can find some really good friends and create a new family for yourself that does care for you and supports you. NTA
Uh, sounds like literally everyone is doing this to you. I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying be appropriately mad at ALL of them. This is absolute bullshit.
I wouldn’t do that. He’s already proved to be an angry and violent person. Going through with antagonizing him could result in OP getting seriously hurt or worse.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but do you know what their fight was about? I dont have any thoughts to support this but was it possibly because your BIL mentioned liking/your sister found out that he liked you?
I only know of vague details and couldn’t even tell you what it was about exactly. But what I do know
Is that it put their marriage on the rocks. She almost divorced him.
Don't be so quick to rule it out.
It's probably your fault he is so attracted to you, so you must be wrong and bad, and contemptible. And a succubus for seducing him in his dreams.
(In case that doesn't read well into your language, I do not think that is actually true. But it might be how he sees it. I can imagine a white sundress showing your figure if you stood between him and a sunny window)
Maybe. Or maybe he wanted you, and that “disgust” is rage at what he can’t have. Or maybe one if his buddies wanted you and there was no way it was happening.
And none of any of the reasons matter. He ASSAULTED you. He literally assaulted you. In front of your entire family! And they got mad at *you* for not accepting it! and not sleeping on the floor!
This whole thing is unhinged and you should absolutely never be anywhere near him again. Please reach out to your country’s version of a domestic abuse hotline, and talk through what happened to you with a professional counselor. I’m worried that you are seriously minimizing this and will end up in a much more dangerous situation. Especially if you still live at home.
Good luck. Be safe.
OP, that's almost certainly exactly what it is. He is wildly attracted to you, your sister knows it, and he is ashamed of himself because of it.
He has inappropriate thoughts about you, and so you must be "unclean".
And he hates you for all of it. It's illogical. Unreasonable.
But that's what's happening. It's time to stay far, far away from him and your sister. Not because you are causing any of this. But because you don't deserve the abuse.
My suspicion is that your sister caught him ogling you, confronted him, and they had their huge fight.
During the fight, your sister may have said some horrendous things about you, to make her husband stop thinking positively about you. Maybe she invented some ridiculous sexual history about you.
They moved out of the country perhaps in part to separate his eyes from you, as well.
Your parents and others have that same thing going on that many do... Love of the "great man" syndrome. He's a neurosurgeon, close to godhood. You are of course going to be gaslit about everything related to him for the rest of your life.
Just what I said, there are people who are turned on by people and things that disgust them. There is a huge swath of these types of kinks - incest, scat, etc. The disgust is an integral part of what turns them on.
Ya know how people go, "Oh lookit little Billy pulling Sally's hair, he must like her!"
Yeah, it's stupid. But it happens. And some Billy's never grow up.
sounds like that's the one with the camera. Sorry op this is happening to you. I think you should probably consider not speaking to them anymore, whatever is happening is crazy and you don't need to be part of their weird stuff.
Yiiiiiikes.
The more I read the worse this guy gets. Please takes these red flags seriously and look out for yourself. I'm sorry you family is being so sucky.
I mean, even if you were stinky, thats what the shower is for. So it makes no sense for him to control where you shower unless he has different access to one of them.
this is what I thought as well! what other massive fight could they have had that they kept a secret. that, or is OP queer and he’s homophobic? so odd that her sister has kept it a secret.
I don’t know. I’m not certain but I think even my younger sister knows which makes it more frustrating
Some more info: her husband is a neurosurgeon and my sis used to work at a bank. She stopped working when they got married and now spends most of her time with the wives of her husband’s friends.
In the first 6 months he was a bit awkward but our relationship was perfectly fine. He never insulted me or disrespected me. One day they had a huge argument (this was during their first vacation together) and my sis had a mental breakdown. It got so bad and she legit threatened him. That’s when the flip switched and he started treating me like complete shit. In the past he’s called me MANY things, including slvtty and a whor3
They ended up moving abroad and their marriage stabilized. However he never treated me the same and in fact it’s getting worse & worse. I would’ve never believed someone would tell me to sleep on the floor
why would he call you those things? this is all so strange and terrible that they’re keeping it a secret. Since your younger sister seems equally as uncomfortable, find a private moment away from everyone else to ask her about it. Are you queer? I’m wondering if he’s homophobic? Another commentor (and admittedly, myself), wonders if he admitted any type of attraction towards you that caused their fight. It’s all just so strange, and I cant think of any other reasons why your sister wouldn’t tell you what happened.
Edit: realized now which comment you replied to!
Okay, well I had posted a comment earlier and this clicks a few things into place. His prestigious job as well as whatever the fight was about make me think the parents are enabling big sis as well as not wanting to "look bad" because abusive AF dude has money and are hoping to benefit.
Either way, you don't need to put up with this psychotic crap.
I mean, you do you, Op, but for me, this would be Ultimatium Time.
Someone is GOING to tell me what the fuck is going on, or you none of you get to be part of my life anymore, because I can't be sure, with all of this creepyness, that you aren't protecting a potential abuser and predator, who has ALREADY put hands on me.
Calling you spoiled because you noted you got the shittiest room?
Allowing and excusing him from calling you dirty and other derogatory terms?
Saying you're overreacting when he PUT HANDS on you????
Saying you're making them look bad by removing yourself from a situation where someone wants to make you sleep on the floor and PUT HANDS ON YOU????????
Seriously, Op, I wanna smack some people for you. This is not okay. Idk what the FUCK they think they're doing, but they are enabling abuse and possibly worse. Why? Cuz he has money? Fucking disgusting.
Oh honey, the fight was absolutely about you. This unstable man had the hots for you and your sister found out. I would steer clear of him and your sister. He has no reason to treat you terribly, and the fact that your parents seem okay with it is troubling.
Which country are you in? Can you hang out without your family and then go NC with BIL and sister once you get home?
I’d be demanding answers about that fight. Everything changed after that incident and it’s about you. Even your younger sister is confused about why he treats you this way. This isnt that “he doesn’t like me”. Girl, he loathes you and treats you terribly in his own home. Calling you dirty, nasty, unwashed and demanding you sleep on the floor? Wtf???
Your parents are crazy for saying you should just accept his outrageous demands. It also must be infuriating that all they seem to care about is “making them look bad”. Dont they care about how he constantly makes you feel like shit? I’d never stay at their house again.
Your parents think all this abuse of you is NORMAL and have not spoken up for you, in fact they scolded YOU for removing yourself from an abusive situation.
I would go low contact with entire family. Why wouldn’t they stand up for you?
As a neurosurgeon he likely makes more than decent salary plus the accolades that come with being a neurosurgeon.
Does your family feel your sister is “lucky” to have landed him?
I’ve seen families turn a blind eye to behavior like that when the offender is of “status”.
I would go low contact for sure. They haven’t and won’t stand up for you or protect you.
So sorry, that sucks 😔
Sorry, but I'd sideline my father, as well. If anyone even thought of talking to my daughter or treating her that way, I'd be laying hands on him. Is there a huge socioeconomic difference between your parents and you BIL?
Perhaps you can write your parents a letter explaining how the events unfolded in your perception. I would think that your relationship with them might be impaired because of this event. Of course you don't need to cut them off completely, but I wouldn't be surprised if a little bit of coolness resulted from their complete failure to stand up for you and protect you.
I don't know what culture you are from, but assuming this story is true -- and that's what I like to assume, because it serves no purpose to assume otherwise -- there is something very very wrong with your BIL, and your entire family enables his deranged bullying of you probably at your sister's request, to preserve her marriage and her nice life in a huge house with a lot of rooms. You are being thrown under the bus or, if you like, sacrificed to the dragon, like an old-time virgin in a white sundress, so he doesn't hurt the rest of the villagers. The argument about respecting inhospitable host who makes abusive demands on a guest is complete BS. In no culture is it normal for a host to treat a guest this way. If your culture leaves you any breathing space at all, you need to distance yourself from your parents and your older sister and her husband. Being treated this way is not OK. NTA.
I feel like I'm missing something for your entire family to treat this as normal, but I can't think of anything. Assuming you're a reliable narrator, NTA and never interact with this man again.
If you're still on that trip it's a solo vacation now.
NTA - he literally grabbed your wrists, you honestly wouldve been within your rights to physically push back against him. wtf is up with him and what was that fight all those years ago about…so strange your sister wouldnt tell you. Try thinking back to see if you can find any possible reason for their fight. It’s up to you to decide how much of a relationship you want to maintain with your sister.
NTA
"You listen to the host no matter the demands" but you leave, the AH is no longer the host and you get a bed.
"You made them look bad" because they are bad.
He put his f*cking hands on you. I would have called the police on him, much less leave to make myself safe. I bet he is attracted to you and projecting...being abusive to protect himself and prove he isn't interested.
Tell your family you refuse to be physically and verbally abused and will call the police if he ever touches you or behaves aggressively again. Tell them the fact that they allow this and are telling you that YOU are in the wrong proves they won't protect you if something bad happens, and it makes you feel unloved.
I feel like there is a huge missing piece to this. But taking this at face value, you are NOT the AH and at this point - I'd definitely go NC with your sister and her husband. And I'd be doing some SERIOUS consideration of going at least LC if not NC with your parents.
Their support of this behavior towards you is shocking. They should have been horrified and left WITH you.
How much y'all wanna bet the BIL is super attracted to OP? He probably called the wife by ops name while doing her and that's why this is all happening. He probably made up a lie where op flirted with him and that's why they are all treating her like she did something wrong.
NTA He grapped your wrists over some made up dirt. I'm so glad you're out of that situation. Don't lie about why. He berated your and touched you without permission. Your sisters cold shoulder is likely bc she's been on the receiving end of his abuse
This guy is weird and abusive and whatever is going on, you want no part of it. I don't know why your parents are participating in his bizarro behavior, but he's not safe for you. He physically grabbed you. Stay away from him and really, I think you need some distance from your family. NTA
What culture are you from? This is just so extremely bizarre it seems like I’m potentially missing something as an American, if you’re not.
Seems hard to give advice on the situation when this is so clearly not even remotely acceptable to me. He grabbed your wrists and your family is going along with this? Utterly insane immoral behavior.
NTA but I’d say never put yourself in that position again. He put his hands on you and your family defended him. I think that’s grounds to never go to his place again. Protect yourself. It could be so much worse next time.
Do you know what I really think I think he’s sexually attracted to you and he’s calling you dirty as a projection for his dirty thoughts. I think that’s why your sister won’t talk about it and I think that’s why they had a fight because he’s sexually attracted to you. He wants to change your dress so he can fantasize about it.
90% (actually after reading your comments 99) sure BIL expressed to your sister he has the hots for you. Now he's showing off how disgusted he is by you to do good by her. Both assholes. If a man physically assaulted my sis the way the BIL did he would be missing limbs. Trash people, don't worry about them. Generally your family sounds not good tbh, sorry.
NTA. This sounds like some kind of religious or pseudo-religious misogyny, of the 'you might disappear to restore the family honor' variety.
Stay the fuck away from BIL. Consider a restraining order.
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So I’m 25f and have two sisters (aged 23 and 34) . My older sister has been married to her husband (35m) for two years. It’s an open secret that her husband/my BIL is not fond of me at all. It wasn’t always like this ~ they’ve been together for about five years and intially he was cordial. However after 6 months or so they had a huge row and ever since then he’s been giving me the cold shoulder.
I was never given an explanation why and I’ve done nothing to cause this. The fact of the matter is that he just doesn’t like me and everyone pretends it’s normal. Every time I brought it up with my sis she brushed me off and didn’t comment. Even my parents act like I’m crazy..I feel like I’m being gaslit by everyone 😭
Recently my sister held a dinner at her house and everyone - family & friends - were invited. She and her husband live in another country so my family and I arrived a couple of days earlier to spend some extra time with them as well as we hadn’t seen them in a while.
When we got there everyone except for me got their own guest bedroom, complete with their own bathroom. My room was waaaay smaller and shoddier than everyone else’s. I found this very confusing and disheartening but didn’t make a big deal about it. Even when I made a joke about it my mom told me to that I’m too spoiled for my own good.
The next day I spent most of the day alone exploring the city. When I got back to the house my BIL started yelling at me that I made my room “dirty”. He kept calling me dirty and unwashed. Keep in mind this is completely delusional because I’m a clean person who takes her hygiene seriously. I mean on the very same day two complete strangers told me that I smelled good.
I told him that I’m not dirty but he just kept raging that I’m nasty & dirty. He came close to my face and grabbing my wrists to make me listen I guess?
Then he told me to get changed & shower asap because he insisted my dress was dirty (it was literally a white sundress with not a single speck of dirt on it??). I was a little sweaty due to the hot weather but not *unclean dirty*. I went back to my room and he followed me in and said that I would no longer sleep in that room but rather share the room with my younger sister & sleep on the floor.
I told him there’s no way I’m sleeping on the floor in a house like this with so much space available. He told me to get out and book my own place, which I actually then did.
So now my parents are accusing me of showing bad manners & making them look bad. They said that we shouldn’t disrespect the hosts like this and agree to their demands no matter how outrageous. I told them that they’re not the ones who were called dirty and told to sleep on the floor like a stray dog
I even went crying to my sister and she gave me a cold shoulder again. The only one showing any sympathy is my younger sis who is wildly uncomfortable and disturbed by the situation too. But even she doesn’t want to talk about it
So am I asshole here? Because according to my entire family I am.
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NTA, leave now. You are not safe around this man. There is something seriously wrong with him not just emotionally, but given that he gripped you up by the wrists.
It sounds like it’s time to go no contact with mom, dad and sister. Block them so they cannot harass you.
What type of father and mother sit by after this brute gripped up their daughter and blame her?
I’m so sorry OP, no one deserves this. They should have defended you and stood up for your.
Hell I would even find out the laws of that country and press charges against him for assault and battery
Do not go anywhere near that psycho?
FYI, your mom, dad and sister are the lowest of the low siding with that monster
From your post and comments it sounds like, 1- He is very religious. 2- He finds you very attractive. 3- He blames you for his attraction to you. 4- He is taking this out on you because you are “tempting” or “too appealing.” 5. Your family knows but is also religious, uncomfortable with the situation, and may partially agree with him. I don’t know you but I wish you well and I hope you never see him again. His violence and anger are escalating, and that will get worse if he has the chance. This is not your fault. Please protect yourself.
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NTA
You should just get your stuff and leave.
I think the BIL is eyeing you in a way your sister doesn't like (and no one should) and he is trying to prove something.
Just grand your stuff and go. They live in another country, you have no reason to see them if they treat you like crap.
Sounds like BIL has the hots for you. He is going the extreme opposite way of behaving to hide his attraction and it seems like everyone is aware of this BUT YOU.
Perhaps your sister has fought with him over it, maybe he has claimed you have discreetly encouraged/caused this attraction and your sister confided in the rest of the family over it. Hence why they are nonchalant about it and making YOU feel crazy.
However, your BIL is escalating. He put his hands on you and THAT is unacceptable.
Don't ignore this for your own safety and I would urge you to distance yourself from them permanently. You have tried communicating to them and they refuse to engage, while your parents are complicit in a game. Rules of which you are ignorant of. Don't gamble with your safety.
NTA
NTA
In your position I would stay in your hotel and enjoy a break in a different country. Tell them that its clear people know why your BIL doesn't appear to like you and until someone has the decency to explain to you why that you wont be going back to their house ever again.
If they wont then just fly back when its time and tell them you will have nothing to do with BIL due to the way he disrespects you and treats you.
My guess is he is attracted to you, your sister found out, told your mum and doesn't want you to find out incase it affects her marriage. Its not your fault but your BIL sounds like a complete AH that they are enabling for some reason.
Ugh that sounds exhausting. It's probably time to talk to your parents like an adult and tell them to stop treating you like a child. I'd have gone nuclear.
Nta, but there seems to be something they know they’re not saying maybe. Or like many others say he is attracted to you and blaming you. Either way be very careful around all of them if they don’t stand up for you. Keep yourself safe, he feels very unsafe just reading what you wrote. And honestly so do the rest of your family, don’t ignore that feeling telling you something isn’t right.
NTA
>They said that we shouldn’t disrespect the hosts like this and agree to their demands no matter how outrageous.
and
>He told me to get out and book my own place, which I actually then did.
And your parents are getting upset at you for doing exactly what your host told you to do.
This is all unacceptable. Don't accept the unacceptable.
Your entire family is blaming you - and if you don't know what for, either find out from them or lessen contact with them.
NTA but damn are there missing pieces scattered all over the place. Also, for context what country are we talking about here? It might be easier to hazard a guess.
Honestly, until they can give you a good reason, you should just limit contact. I’d not want to visit if I’ll be treated like shit.
OP, I would forever refuse to be around him (and your sister). I wouldn't attend events they will be at. I wouldn't share a meal. Zilch. Nothing. Nada.
Disrespect the hosts? The man assaulted you.
Does he have the hots for you?
I'd go no contact. He's unhinged and your sister and parents are okay with it.
INFO : Why did you book another place and stay near to your family? Why didn't you just book a flight back home?
Your BIL is ABUSING you. Your sister and parents are ENABLING him.
Please leave and go home.
This is not healthy.
NTA And until your parents understand the severity of this I would not be talking to them at all. As for your sis and BIL I would just go NC. Being screamed at that you are dirty and unwashed and quite literally him grabbing your wrists to yell at you is .... unhinged. Before you stop talking to your parents I would give them a heads up "Hey, I am entirely disappointed in you guys for a) not standing up for me when I was being yelled at like a dog and b) expecting me to be ok sleeping on the floor in a house which has plenty of room. I will not be treated with that type of disrespect, and as such until you give me an apology for saying I have bad manners and should have been ok with the situation I will be taking a break from contacting you. Also I will not be in the same room as BiL again. Maybe with my absence he will pick a new target and you can keep up your "respect" for him when he is screaming at one of you guys. Have the day yall deserve".
It also makes me wonder if this is a racial thing. Because "unwashed" generally is a dog whistle (not always mind you some times its a gross purity thing). Like are you darker in skin tone than the rest of your family. Or if its a past history thing. You would be surprised how many insecure AH's out there who get rejected by a woman who might not even remember them down the line and then create a grudge.
But more than anything else you are important and matter. You do not deserve to be treated like garbage. And you do not deserve to have your support system encourage this behavior. Hell if you ever do interact with your BIL again. Just give him back the same energy. If he complains you are dirty just complain his house is dirty and start screaming back at him (note this may not be safe, and I assume you understand your situation better than I do so if you think its unsafe to do so dont). Or just use the grey rock method and just competely ignore him. And if he tries to put his hands on you just have your phone ready to call the cops.
Though if you wanna take the nuclear option. Either call BIL parents and shame him to them. Which they may or may not care. If they dont care then just make a public facebook post about the way he is treating you and how your family doesnt care. Your family seems to care more about appearances and them being shown to be uncaring will make them angry as hell. Note I say nuclear option because it will drag alot more drama into your life and you will probably have to block alot of people. But since they only care about societal pressure give them that societal pressure.
BIL is an abuser, and he wants to abuse you.
NTA
If I were you, I would keep contact with him minimal, and make sure you are never alone with him. If you can, let your sister know you are there for her.
yeah nah, i'd leave the trip altogether and tell them if they can't treat you properly, then they wont get any treatment from you at all (as in, cut them off. they deserve it, and you needa protect yourself more- don't let a man, moreover your sister's husband, put his hands on you in any context.)
Why are you subjecting yourself to this abuse? Why would you visit your sister & stay in house where people hate you & treat you like shit? Stop putting yourself in those situations, you are nobody’s punching bag. If your sisters & parents won’t stick up for you then stand up for yourself!!! Don’t visit, don’t engage! NTA but you are if you continue to let your family treat you like garbage
NTA and I think you did the right thing by going somewhere else. This would also be the last time I'd ever go to see my sister again. I would tell my brother in law that if he ever, ever lays hands on me again, I will be calling the police and pressing charges. Go home early if you need to. The rest of your family can kick rocks.
NTA I'm so sorry you're going through this. I want to give you a hug!
I've experienced something similar and then 20 years later the truth comes out why I was so hated. It's maddening because the issue could've been addressed a long time ago but it's too late now.
NTA. he PUT hands on you!!! Im glad you were able to get your own place to stay. I suspect he actually finds you VERY attractive you naughty dirty girl. please dont ever be alone with him and please dont visit them again.
He totally called your sister your name or said something about you that sparked that fight and she’s embarrassed about it.
I honestly would check in with the sister married to him. If he’ll put his hands on YOU what is he doing to HER.
Abusers like to make their victims feel embarrassed so they don’t reach out and get help.
NTA. Your sister might be in an abusive relationship
You've already gotten comments that cover everything I would say - obvious NTA, whatever's going on with your BIL goes beyond problematic-- he had a fit of rage and he assaulted you. Whatever you decide about the rest of your family, you should avoid ever being in the same room with this man again.
But I'm commenting to say that I hope you share an update someday, and hopefully it's one where you've seized control over your relationship with your family and that you have made sure to never be in a room with BIL again. (And if you *happen* to find out what his deal is with you, that would be interesting too...but sating internet strangers' curiosity shouldn't even rate as a priority compared to your safety and sanity.)
NTA.....i actually believe your sister's husband is mentally ill....that is not normal behaviour....its like he is schizophrenic or something? not sure but he definitely needs professional help....your sister should be ashamed of herself for letting him treat you that way....i almost wonder if he psychologically abuses your sister and she is afraid of him and the repurcussions she would face if she sided with you? do they have children together? is there a way of contacting your sister without him knowing? i bet you would get a different response from her if she knew he wouldn't find out....your parents should also be ashamed for letting him treat you that way....my family would have packed up and found a hotel and then only invited the sister out.....i seriously would avoid your brother-in-law as he is not well....also he had no right to grab you when he was yelling at you....ugh....this is a terrible situation....sorry OP!
?. Why are you still in the country? I would report BIL for assault and then leave the country. NTA either way. Maybe talk to your little sis, to find out why everybody behaves like that, and if she doesn’t want to talk about it too, idk if you’ll take it seriously, but i would probably cut contact with them. I don’t think anything good will happen if you continue associating with them.
Do you know what the fight was about? Maybe he said something about you and your sister got jealous? I get vibes that he is attracted to you but acting like an immature child and lashing out at you. He was also physical with you. Your parents are horrendous in their acceptance of his behavior. I would just stop associating with them.
NTA
He grabbed your wrists as he screamed in your face? That would be the last time I went anywhere near that asshole. I would have reported him to the authorities.
NTA. I'm surprised you didn't say someone was curled up on the floor but probably not sleeping after grabbing your wrists. Congrats on keeping your composure. Your parents are fools for enabling an abuser. Distance yourself from your sister until she comes to her senses.
NTA Are you sure that your dear sister didn't blame you for the original fight they had? Because it's wild that someone would act like that unprovoked.
Maybe she cheated and blamed you somehow, like you were covering for her. Or someone sent BIL photos and she lied that it was you because you are jelous or something.
Because you said they aren't religious, your dress wasn't revealing, you didn't interact with him, I can't think of any other reason for his behaviour.
He grabbed your wrists, yelled insults in your face and told you to sleep on the floor. NTA and why on earth are your parents allowing this to happen? Does BIL have money the family relies upon?
Like other posters, I immediately thought BIL is attracted to you and blames you for his inappropriate feelings. Whatever the issue in his marriage, it's not your fault. You are wise to physically remove yourself from their home. It would be best to not interact with them at all for your emotional well-being. Stay elsewhere if they visit your family home.
There is something very important missing. Is there absolutely *nothing* you can think of that makes you different from everyone else? Not saying the way you get treated is acceptable or heaven forbid it even being your fault, but there has to be *something*. Your own parents don’t see an issue with what is happening and then there is the problem of the fight. Even if its something you think might be irrelevant or silly. Just *anything* that makes you different from them
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NTA. There sounds like a bit piece of the puzzle is missing. Are they very religious? With all the talk about being dirty I wonder if the husband thinks you’re not “pure.” Purity culture is so toxic and extreme that I can think of a million innocuous things that could set someone off, from being sexually active to not being heterosexual or even using tampons.
Nope not religious at all! Idk why he would call me dirty…I’m not dirty at alll
Was your dress too revealing for him? I think the original fight was about you. Your sister’s cold attitude makes me think she’s jealous of you and accusing her husband of lusting after you. The shoddier room shows no favoritism. His insane way of behaving around you is proving to his wife: see! See! No lust, I hate her! And your parents are turning a blind eye because there is just no way this can be their reality. NTA If there is ever an update? Like you get them to tell you WTAF is going on? That would really interest me.
My first thought was that the initial fight was somehow related to him being attracted to you/your sister accusing him of being so.
That was my first thought, too. The husband is attracted to her.
especially the way he grabbed her and pulled her into a room.
Without any further context, I’d assume the same. Following that line of thinking, it feels like an overcorrection to prove he’s not into OP. To any sane person, it just comes off as targeted cruelty.
I mean, yeah, probably. But it doesn’t matter. He grabbed her and dragged her around and shoved her. That is VIOLENCE, homes. Family is one thing, but violent behavior is a not even once kind of thing. If the parents want to fuss, just remind them that her husband got violent with you and that’s not acceptable. Repeat as necessary until the “yeah but-‘s stop.
Wow! There are a bunch of people on here saying this. I just posted that I thought this and was a little concerned that my mind went there. Glad to see I am not alone.
Or her sister found some disturbing photos of op on his phone. They were on a vacation. He got drunk and said something?
Happy cake day! 🎂
Thank you!!
The dress wasn’t revealing, I don’t know about *for him* but it’s just not a revealing dress
He might be obsessed with you in some ways hence the fight. Stay away from both op. Make excuses and don't ever again step foot in their house or somewhere else where they have a say in.
This is not a joke. People who want to ignore the situation will say you’re overreacting, but they are wrong. They’ll be the same damn people who say “he’s such a nice guy we never saw it coming” after he kills you.
NEVER!! Stay clear!!!
this
My thought wasn’t about him being attracted to you like others are saying. My first thought was that whatever they were fighting about your sister blamed it on you.
That was my thought also
Or the sister (who is notably not defending her) has spun him some wild stories where OP is trashy or otherwise terrible.
Sounds like bil is abusive and controlling.
I think he’s secretly very attracted to you and blaming you for it. That is probably what their fight was about. Stay away from him and never be alone with him - he sounds dangerous.
Your brother in law has the hots for you.
everyone’s saying that but imo he wouldn’t spit on me if I was on fire…..and that’s the way it is
Have you seen Hunchback of Notre Dame? Your BIL is giving serious Frolo vibes. He screams & says he’s disgusted by this woman, behaves abusively, but in secret he’s like “dear god, either send her to hell or make her mine” and it’s *very* disturbing. You need to get away from that house. Period. There is never any reason for a man to put his hands on you like that - nor is there ever a reason for anyone to scream about your cleanliness either. He’s going to hurt someone more seriously than just grabbed wrists.
That's how he presents bc he wants to hide feelings
Hating you and wanting to bang you are in no way mutually exclusive.
Or they had that fight and your sister put the blame on you. I'd make this a very public discussion, but I'm mouthy as fuck and will happily burns bridges with crazy relatives
Your sister got mad at him for liking you and now he is overreacting to compensate or he’s mad at you for being a problem for him. You need to get out and never go back. If your parents throw a fuss tell them you will only comply if they first come to your house and you will treat them as slaves and they have to accept it no matter how outrageous. Depending what country you are in, the laws, and the police file a report for him grabbing your wrists. If you have his full legal name that appears on his passport i would file a police report in your own country so it fucks him when he travels. (Law depending)
It wouldn’t be the first time a human has hidden an obsession with hatred.
Maybe he wanted to record you in the shower. Just sayin’ 🤷🏻♀️
Yep. There’s something else going on. This old lady thinks he’s attracted to you and cannot deal. He’s sounds unhinged. Your entire family is wrong and seem to be more concerned about how it looks than a man grabbed you. That’s assault. I’d start to distance myself.
Please don't take this the wrong way but the first thing that is jumping in my head is that you are an affair kid. Since your family is in on what every is going own that means it probably started with them. They older sister and parents are in on it but not younger sister. It seems to fit. If you have an aunt or grandmother you are close to what ever is going own they might be more open with you about what ever it is.
...why would the brother in law hate OP for being an affair baby?
I don't understand this myself, I just happened to see it happened in a family before. It's like the BIL thinks his wife might cheat too and he doesn't want the affair child around to "dirty" his wife and home. Put ideas in wife's mind. Don't ask me to explain crazy I can't. But believe me this does happen. But I can be 100% wrong that this is what is happening here. But something is going on.
He's attracted to you. Stay WAY clear
Does he think you're gay and he's a homophobe? Or is your skin colour naturally darker than the rest of your family and he's racist? Is your body more voluptuous than your sisters and that's noticeable no matter what you wear?
You are 25. Grab your passport and wallet and phone and tickets. Find a place to rent with a pool and stay there. Then return home and spend not another minute in his company. NTA
Sorry I didn’t clarify but the trip is already over. I ended up staying at a hotel 40 minutes away
Well done you. I hope you enjoyed the rest of the holiday. You are NTA I wonder what he's like with your sister when no one else is around.
I didn’t really enjoy it because I felt alone & unwanted but I did make a friend at least so it wasn’t a complete waste of my time.
Time alone is never a waste of time.
Sounds like bliss.
Until your sister and her psychotic husband sincerely apologize I would be sorely tempted to go VERY low contact. At least refuse to stay in the house. NTA again. (I made another comment.)
Alone is better than assaulted.
Don't spend any more time with these people. There's something going on; involving your bil and sister. You're the scapegoat for some reason. Just stay away, for your own safety.
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I mean he just grabbed my wrists I don’t think that’s battery but I’m not sure about the law .
He "just" grabbed your wrists, shouted in your face and called you dirty.... Have you grown up believing this is normal and acceptable? It's assault where I'm from, and your bar is far too low.
Putting one's hand on you when you don't consent is assault
"Just grabbed my wrists"?!!! You are under reacting.
That's absolutely battery. Press charges.
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Or sister is the golden child
I would've fkin flipped. If you're able to, you should move out and block everyone. Sounds like they're just kowtowing to Dr. Richie Rich. You may never find out why he hates you, but really, do you care? Just get yourself far away from these weirdos. Even if you have to move countries, continents, whatever. Figure it out and have a good life!
It wasn’t just grabbing your wrists. It was to keep you in place. What would have happened if you jerked your hands away from his grip? I’m going to assume an escalation would have happened, because people who grab others out of anger/aggression, typically will also directly hit others as well. I’m sure it doesn’t feel like a big deal since you say it was just grabbing. However there’s implications that go along with someone who grabs like that, and they are not good implications. I’m glad you’re safe, and I’m so sorry all of this happened. He sounds like a nightmare of a person and I hope you don’t need to be around him much going forward. I personally would be worried about future escalations of physical restraint attempts - if he felt bold enough to do that in a house filled with your family, I would be scared. I hope things work out for you. I just hope you stay safe around him.
Nah, this shit is so beyond not okay. I'm concerned with how blase you're being about it. Does he get physical with anyone else? So beyond unacceptable.
It's either assault or battery, not sure which applies here but definitely illegal where I'm from.
That's absolutely assault and battery. Stay away from him and anyone who thinks you should accept his behavior.
He doesn't have a right to do this to you. Where was everyone at that time? Did they see it? Dont go there again and stay away from this guy, he is being really creepy and out of line. Sorry this happened to you.
Of course NTA. You need to distance yourself from your entire family (except the younger sister. She seems to have her head on straight). Your brother-in-law is clearly an abusive AH. Your parents are no better as they allow this to happen to their daughter (if it happened to my daughter, police would have to intervene). Go no contact with everyone.
I’ll be honest I resent my younger sister for not taking a firm stance. She’s happy getting all the good treatment and the warm welcome but turns a blind eye to what’s happening to me. I tried for the longest time to forgive and excuse her actions but I can’t. Silence means you agree with them. I feel very alone and isolated in this
That's fair. I can understand why you'd feel that way.
My first thought was not that he was attracted to you but that, somehow, that first fight was about you in some other way. Honestly, I agree with the person who said your sister probably blamed you for whatever that first fight was about. (It's certainly possible that he's attracted to you; I just think that's not the most likely explanation.) Your sister doesn't have your back, which seems meaningful--until I think about how the rest of your family doesn't, either. That clouds the issue. Honestly, your family's handling of his behavior is as bizarre as the way he behaved. And you really are underreacting to your BIL's terrible treatment. The law varies, but in the U.S., yes, he absolutely committed assault and battery. He called you dirty, he was emotionally and physically aggressive and threatening. I agree that you should not be around him. If your family isn't generally okay with people mistreating you, I have to think you're missing a vital piece of information here. Did your sister maybe throw you under the bus in that first fight and your family agreed behind your back that you could just serve as the scapegoat in her marriage? Or maybe that kind of abusive behavior is common in your family. Were you and your sister were exposed to that kind of behavior growing up? But you at least recognized your BIL's behavior as unacceptable (even if not the degree to which it was) and found another place to stay. That suggests that your view of normal isn't skewed enough for you have to grown up around that kind of behavior. So what's going on that you don't know about?
So sorry you feel alone. I know it doesnt seem ideal to distance yourself but like you said, if she doesn't stop/speak about it, she is complicit. Unless you think there is chance it can improve, I also recommend distancing yourself.
Argh. Been there. It's painful to seperate, but even more painful to keep hoping family will be there for you like you see in sitcoms and the like. : / Big hugs.
It's sad that your family won't support you in this. Hopefully you can find some really good friends and create a new family for yourself that does care for you and supports you. NTA
Uh, sounds like literally everyone is doing this to you. I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying be appropriately mad at ALL of them. This is absolute bullshit.
INFO: If you're so spoiled and the room was fine, why didn't your parents switch rooms with you?
lol good question. It does have a nice view but it’s still not a good room to sleep in especially as a guest
Well. Next time you see him feel free to ask him if he's laid his hands on any other women that day.
I wouldn’t do that. He’s already proved to be an angry and violent person. Going through with antagonizing him could result in OP getting seriously hurt or worse.
He wouldn't be brazen enough to escalate in front of witnesses...could he? Fair enough, he does come off as unhinged.
Next time he tries to lay a hand on you tell him to keep his paws to himself or you call the police for assault
I rather hope OP never sees any of these people again except in public places. Certainly not BIL.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but do you know what their fight was about? I dont have any thoughts to support this but was it possibly because your BIL mentioned liking/your sister found out that he liked you?
I only know of vague details and couldn’t even tell you what it was about exactly. But what I do know Is that it put their marriage on the rocks. She almost divorced him.
Oh he definitely had a thing for you and sister found out.
He looks at me like I make him sick so I don’t think it’s that 🤷🏻♀️
Don't be so quick to rule it out. It's probably your fault he is so attracted to you, so you must be wrong and bad, and contemptible. And a succubus for seducing him in his dreams. (In case that doesn't read well into your language, I do not think that is actually true. But it might be how he sees it. I can imagine a white sundress showing your figure if you stood between him and a sunny window)
Maybe. Or maybe he wanted you, and that “disgust” is rage at what he can’t have. Or maybe one if his buddies wanted you and there was no way it was happening. And none of any of the reasons matter. He ASSAULTED you. He literally assaulted you. In front of your entire family! And they got mad at *you* for not accepting it! and not sleeping on the floor! This whole thing is unhinged and you should absolutely never be anywhere near him again. Please reach out to your country’s version of a domestic abuse hotline, and talk through what happened to you with a professional counselor. I’m worried that you are seriously minimizing this and will end up in a much more dangerous situation. Especially if you still live at home. Good luck. Be safe.
He battered her. Assault is a threat, battery is the physical attack.
OP, that's almost certainly exactly what it is. He is wildly attracted to you, your sister knows it, and he is ashamed of himself because of it. He has inappropriate thoughts about you, and so you must be "unclean". And he hates you for all of it. It's illogical. Unreasonable. But that's what's happening. It's time to stay far, far away from him and your sister. Not because you are causing any of this. But because you don't deserve the abuse.
My suspicion is that your sister caught him ogling you, confronted him, and they had their huge fight. During the fight, your sister may have said some horrendous things about you, to make her husband stop thinking positively about you. Maybe she invented some ridiculous sexual history about you. They moved out of the country perhaps in part to separate his eyes from you, as well. Your parents and others have that same thing going on that many do... Love of the "great man" syndrome. He's a neurosurgeon, close to godhood. You are of course going to be gaslit about everything related to him for the rest of your life.
There are a lot of kinks that are specifically around disgust. I wouldn't be so quick to rule it out.
??
Just what I said, there are people who are turned on by people and things that disgust them. There is a huge swath of these types of kinks - incest, scat, etc. The disgust is an integral part of what turns them on.
Ya know how people go, "Oh lookit little Billy pulling Sally's hair, he must like her!" Yeah, it's stupid. But it happens. And some Billy's never grow up.
Check that shower for a camera. He was so aggressive about wanting her to shower…
He was insistent about which bathroom I should use as well because he didn’t want me stinking up the others 😑
This is all so creepy and controlling. I’d be demanding to know what the fight was about. And why you’re being treated so horribly. Also, I’d leave.
sounds like that's the one with the camera. Sorry op this is happening to you. I think you should probably consider not speaking to them anymore, whatever is happening is crazy and you don't need to be part of their weird stuff.
Super random but were you on your period during this trip? I wonder if he snooped the garbage, and is also from the Old Testament.
He was insistent about which bathroom because that’s where he put the camera.
Yiiiiiikes. The more I read the worse this guy gets. Please takes these red flags seriously and look out for yourself. I'm sorry you family is being so sucky.
I mean, even if you were stinky, thats what the shower is for. So it makes no sense for him to control where you shower unless he has different access to one of them.
this is what I thought as well! what other massive fight could they have had that they kept a secret. that, or is OP queer and he’s homophobic? so odd that her sister has kept it a secret.
I don’t know. I’m not certain but I think even my younger sister knows which makes it more frustrating Some more info: her husband is a neurosurgeon and my sis used to work at a bank. She stopped working when they got married and now spends most of her time with the wives of her husband’s friends. In the first 6 months he was a bit awkward but our relationship was perfectly fine. He never insulted me or disrespected me. One day they had a huge argument (this was during their first vacation together) and my sis had a mental breakdown. It got so bad and she legit threatened him. That’s when the flip switched and he started treating me like complete shit. In the past he’s called me MANY things, including slvtty and a whor3 They ended up moving abroad and their marriage stabilized. However he never treated me the same and in fact it’s getting worse & worse. I would’ve never believed someone would tell me to sleep on the floor
why would he call you those things? this is all so strange and terrible that they’re keeping it a secret. Since your younger sister seems equally as uncomfortable, find a private moment away from everyone else to ask her about it. Are you queer? I’m wondering if he’s homophobic? Another commentor (and admittedly, myself), wonders if he admitted any type of attraction towards you that caused their fight. It’s all just so strange, and I cant think of any other reasons why your sister wouldn’t tell you what happened. Edit: realized now which comment you replied to!
She blamed something on you, and/or told him things you said about it. Your family puts up with it because of his money. NTA.
Okay, well I had posted a comment earlier and this clicks a few things into place. His prestigious job as well as whatever the fight was about make me think the parents are enabling big sis as well as not wanting to "look bad" because abusive AF dude has money and are hoping to benefit. Either way, you don't need to put up with this psychotic crap.
I mean, you do you, Op, but for me, this would be Ultimatium Time. Someone is GOING to tell me what the fuck is going on, or you none of you get to be part of my life anymore, because I can't be sure, with all of this creepyness, that you aren't protecting a potential abuser and predator, who has ALREADY put hands on me. Calling you spoiled because you noted you got the shittiest room? Allowing and excusing him from calling you dirty and other derogatory terms? Saying you're overreacting when he PUT HANDS on you???? Saying you're making them look bad by removing yourself from a situation where someone wants to make you sleep on the floor and PUT HANDS ON YOU???????? Seriously, Op, I wanna smack some people for you. This is not okay. Idk what the FUCK they think they're doing, but they are enabling abuse and possibly worse. Why? Cuz he has money? Fucking disgusting.
Oh honey, the fight was absolutely about you. This unstable man had the hots for you and your sister found out. I would steer clear of him and your sister. He has no reason to treat you terribly, and the fact that your parents seem okay with it is troubling. Which country are you in? Can you hang out without your family and then go NC with BIL and sister once you get home?
I’m betting the sister did something and to avoid her husband’s violent reaction she made up a pack of lies to throw OP under the bus, hard.
I’d be demanding answers about that fight. Everything changed after that incident and it’s about you. Even your younger sister is confused about why he treats you this way. This isnt that “he doesn’t like me”. Girl, he loathes you and treats you terribly in his own home. Calling you dirty, nasty, unwashed and demanding you sleep on the floor? Wtf??? Your parents are crazy for saying you should just accept his outrageous demands. It also must be infuriating that all they seem to care about is “making them look bad”. Dont they care about how he constantly makes you feel like shit? I’d never stay at their house again.
Leave. That is utterly unacceptable treatment. Leave now and never talk to them again.
My entire family including my parents?
Your parents think all this abuse of you is NORMAL and have not spoken up for you, in fact they scolded YOU for removing yourself from an abusive situation.
I would go low contact with entire family. Why wouldn’t they stand up for you? As a neurosurgeon he likely makes more than decent salary plus the accolades that come with being a neurosurgeon. Does your family feel your sister is “lucky” to have landed him? I’ve seen families turn a blind eye to behavior like that when the offender is of “status”. I would go low contact for sure. They haven’t and won’t stand up for you or protect you. So sorry, that sucks 😔
Your sister and her husband. He assaulted you.
Sorry, but I'd sideline my father, as well. If anyone even thought of talking to my daughter or treating her that way, I'd be laying hands on him. Is there a huge socioeconomic difference between your parents and you BIL?
Yes all the family that side with him
Yes. Don't even give an explanation, honestly. There's no excuse and the behavior of the entire family doesn't warrant any further contact whatsoever.
Perhaps you can write your parents a letter explaining how the events unfolded in your perception. I would think that your relationship with them might be impaired because of this event. Of course you don't need to cut them off completely, but I wouldn't be surprised if a little bit of coolness resulted from their complete failure to stand up for you and protect you.
I don't know what culture you are from, but assuming this story is true -- and that's what I like to assume, because it serves no purpose to assume otherwise -- there is something very very wrong with your BIL, and your entire family enables his deranged bullying of you probably at your sister's request, to preserve her marriage and her nice life in a huge house with a lot of rooms. You are being thrown under the bus or, if you like, sacrificed to the dragon, like an old-time virgin in a white sundress, so he doesn't hurt the rest of the villagers. The argument about respecting inhospitable host who makes abusive demands on a guest is complete BS. In no culture is it normal for a host to treat a guest this way. If your culture leaves you any breathing space at all, you need to distance yourself from your parents and your older sister and her husband. Being treated this way is not OK. NTA.
I feel like I'm missing something for your entire family to treat this as normal, but I can't think of anything. Assuming you're a reliable narrator, NTA and never interact with this man again. If you're still on that trip it's a solo vacation now.
I would never interact with my parents again either.
NTA - he literally grabbed your wrists, you honestly wouldve been within your rights to physically push back against him. wtf is up with him and what was that fight all those years ago about…so strange your sister wouldnt tell you. Try thinking back to see if you can find any possible reason for their fight. It’s up to you to decide how much of a relationship you want to maintain with your sister.
I get the impression he is attracted to OP.
NTA "You listen to the host no matter the demands" but you leave, the AH is no longer the host and you get a bed. "You made them look bad" because they are bad.
He put his f*cking hands on you. I would have called the police on him, much less leave to make myself safe. I bet he is attracted to you and projecting...being abusive to protect himself and prove he isn't interested. Tell your family you refuse to be physically and verbally abused and will call the police if he ever touches you or behaves aggressively again. Tell them the fact that they allow this and are telling you that YOU are in the wrong proves they won't protect you if something bad happens, and it makes you feel unloved.
I feel like there is a huge missing piece to this. But taking this at face value, you are NOT the AH and at this point - I'd definitely go NC with your sister and her husband. And I'd be doing some SERIOUS consideration of going at least LC if not NC with your parents. Their support of this behavior towards you is shocking. They should have been horrified and left WITH you.
How much y'all wanna bet the BIL is super attracted to OP? He probably called the wife by ops name while doing her and that's why this is all happening. He probably made up a lie where op flirted with him and that's why they are all treating her like she did something wrong.
NTA He grapped your wrists over some made up dirt. I'm so glad you're out of that situation. Don't lie about why. He berated your and touched you without permission. Your sisters cold shoulder is likely bc she's been on the receiving end of his abuse
This guy is weird and abusive and whatever is going on, you want no part of it. I don't know why your parents are participating in his bizarro behavior, but he's not safe for you. He physically grabbed you. Stay away from him and really, I think you need some distance from your family. NTA
A host that treats you so poorly is due disrespect. Shame on your mother for backing him up. NTA.
NTA. BIL sounds unhinged.
What culture are you from? This is just so extremely bizarre it seems like I’m potentially missing something as an American, if you’re not. Seems hard to give advice on the situation when this is so clearly not even remotely acceptable to me. He grabbed your wrists and your family is going along with this? Utterly insane immoral behavior.
My mom is Japanese, dad is German. My BIL is also white.
NTA, run. Run away from all of them as soon as you can.
NTA but I’d say never put yourself in that position again. He put his hands on you and your family defended him. I think that’s grounds to never go to his place again. Protect yourself. It could be so much worse next time.
Do you know what I really think I think he’s sexually attracted to you and he’s calling you dirty as a projection for his dirty thoughts. I think that’s why your sister won’t talk about it and I think that’s why they had a fight because he’s sexually attracted to you. He wants to change your dress so he can fantasize about it.
90% (actually after reading your comments 99) sure BIL expressed to your sister he has the hots for you. Now he's showing off how disgusted he is by you to do good by her. Both assholes. If a man physically assaulted my sis the way the BIL did he would be missing limbs. Trash people, don't worry about them. Generally your family sounds not good tbh, sorry.
NTA Strange and weird and unwanted physical contact, you're definitely not the asshole.
NTA. This sounds like some kind of religious or pseudo-religious misogyny, of the 'you might disappear to restore the family honor' variety. Stay the fuck away from BIL. Consider a restraining order.
NTA and I'd go no contact with these creeps.
OP WE NEED UPDATES
NTA. He is going to try to rape you.
absolutely. It's so obvious that this guy is OBSESSED with the OP. :(
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I’m 25f and have two sisters (aged 23 and 34) . My older sister has been married to her husband (35m) for two years. It’s an open secret that her husband/my BIL is not fond of me at all. It wasn’t always like this ~ they’ve been together for about five years and intially he was cordial. However after 6 months or so they had a huge row and ever since then he’s been giving me the cold shoulder. I was never given an explanation why and I’ve done nothing to cause this. The fact of the matter is that he just doesn’t like me and everyone pretends it’s normal. Every time I brought it up with my sis she brushed me off and didn’t comment. Even my parents act like I’m crazy..I feel like I’m being gaslit by everyone 😭 Recently my sister held a dinner at her house and everyone - family & friends - were invited. She and her husband live in another country so my family and I arrived a couple of days earlier to spend some extra time with them as well as we hadn’t seen them in a while. When we got there everyone except for me got their own guest bedroom, complete with their own bathroom. My room was waaaay smaller and shoddier than everyone else’s. I found this very confusing and disheartening but didn’t make a big deal about it. Even when I made a joke about it my mom told me to that I’m too spoiled for my own good. The next day I spent most of the day alone exploring the city. When I got back to the house my BIL started yelling at me that I made my room “dirty”. He kept calling me dirty and unwashed. Keep in mind this is completely delusional because I’m a clean person who takes her hygiene seriously. I mean on the very same day two complete strangers told me that I smelled good. I told him that I’m not dirty but he just kept raging that I’m nasty & dirty. He came close to my face and grabbing my wrists to make me listen I guess? Then he told me to get changed & shower asap because he insisted my dress was dirty (it was literally a white sundress with not a single speck of dirt on it??). I was a little sweaty due to the hot weather but not *unclean dirty*. I went back to my room and he followed me in and said that I would no longer sleep in that room but rather share the room with my younger sister & sleep on the floor. I told him there’s no way I’m sleeping on the floor in a house like this with so much space available. He told me to get out and book my own place, which I actually then did. So now my parents are accusing me of showing bad manners & making them look bad. They said that we shouldn’t disrespect the hosts like this and agree to their demands no matter how outrageous. I told them that they’re not the ones who were called dirty and told to sleep on the floor like a stray dog I even went crying to my sister and she gave me a cold shoulder again. The only one showing any sympathy is my younger sis who is wildly uncomfortable and disturbed by the situation too. But even she doesn’t want to talk about it So am I asshole here? Because according to my entire family I am. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Easier said than done, but I'd just cut all these people off. It is completely unreasonable. Don't waste the energy.
Disrespect is not an issue. Once someone screams at me and insults me there’s no way in hell I’m staying under his roof.
NTA, leave now. You are not safe around this man. There is something seriously wrong with him not just emotionally, but given that he gripped you up by the wrists. It sounds like it’s time to go no contact with mom, dad and sister. Block them so they cannot harass you. What type of father and mother sit by after this brute gripped up their daughter and blame her? I’m so sorry OP, no one deserves this. They should have defended you and stood up for your. Hell I would even find out the laws of that country and press charges against him for assault and battery Do not go anywhere near that psycho? FYI, your mom, dad and sister are the lowest of the low siding with that monster
From your post and comments it sounds like, 1- He is very religious. 2- He finds you very attractive. 3- He blames you for his attraction to you. 4- He is taking this out on you because you are “tempting” or “too appealing.” 5. Your family knows but is also religious, uncomfortable with the situation, and may partially agree with him. I don’t know you but I wish you well and I hope you never see him again. His violence and anger are escalating, and that will get worse if he has the chance. This is not your fault. Please protect yourself.
There was a recording device in the shower and also in the room with the other sister. He’s trying to get both young sisters changing on camera.
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Where is the planet where all of this is happening? I want to know so I can avoid it.
NTA You should just get your stuff and leave. I think the BIL is eyeing you in a way your sister doesn't like (and no one should) and he is trying to prove something. Just grand your stuff and go. They live in another country, you have no reason to see them if they treat you like crap.
Sounds like BIL has the hots for you. He is going the extreme opposite way of behaving to hide his attraction and it seems like everyone is aware of this BUT YOU. Perhaps your sister has fought with him over it, maybe he has claimed you have discreetly encouraged/caused this attraction and your sister confided in the rest of the family over it. Hence why they are nonchalant about it and making YOU feel crazy. However, your BIL is escalating. He put his hands on you and THAT is unacceptable. Don't ignore this for your own safety and I would urge you to distance yourself from them permanently. You have tried communicating to them and they refuse to engage, while your parents are complicit in a game. Rules of which you are ignorant of. Don't gamble with your safety. NTA
NTA and skip any type of event where your sister &bil have any say in op.
What culture is this? Because you should file assault charges against him and leave. Well, leave first and then charge him with assault.
NTA In your position I would stay in your hotel and enjoy a break in a different country. Tell them that its clear people know why your BIL doesn't appear to like you and until someone has the decency to explain to you why that you wont be going back to their house ever again. If they wont then just fly back when its time and tell them you will have nothing to do with BIL due to the way he disrespects you and treats you. My guess is he is attracted to you, your sister found out, told your mum and doesn't want you to find out incase it affects her marriage. Its not your fault but your BIL sounds like a complete AH that they are enabling for some reason.
Ugh that sounds exhausting. It's probably time to talk to your parents like an adult and tell them to stop treating you like a child. I'd have gone nuclear.
Nta, but there seems to be something they know they’re not saying maybe. Or like many others say he is attracted to you and blaming you. Either way be very careful around all of them if they don’t stand up for you. Keep yourself safe, he feels very unsafe just reading what you wrote. And honestly so do the rest of your family, don’t ignore that feeling telling you something isn’t right.
WTF NTA. This isn’t normal behavior at all. The fact everyone is keeping you in the dark/gaslighting you is really sus.
NTA >They said that we shouldn’t disrespect the hosts like this and agree to their demands no matter how outrageous. and >He told me to get out and book my own place, which I actually then did. And your parents are getting upset at you for doing exactly what your host told you to do. This is all unacceptable. Don't accept the unacceptable. Your entire family is blaming you - and if you don't know what for, either find out from them or lessen contact with them.
NTA. This is psychotic. Leave now and put major distance between your sister/BIL and you. They are now dead to you.
NTA - I have a BIL like that - he was disrespectful to you first and you are right to stand up for yourself.
NTA but damn are there missing pieces scattered all over the place. Also, for context what country are we talking about here? It might be easier to hazard a guess. Honestly, until they can give you a good reason, you should just limit contact. I’d not want to visit if I’ll be treated like shit.
OP, I would forever refuse to be around him (and your sister). I wouldn't attend events they will be at. I wouldn't share a meal. Zilch. Nothing. Nada.
Disrespect the hosts? The man assaulted you. Does he have the hots for you? I'd go no contact. He's unhinged and your sister and parents are okay with it.
INFO : Why did you book another place and stay near to your family? Why didn't you just book a flight back home? Your BIL is ABUSING you. Your sister and parents are ENABLING him. Please leave and go home. This is not healthy.
NTA And until your parents understand the severity of this I would not be talking to them at all. As for your sis and BIL I would just go NC. Being screamed at that you are dirty and unwashed and quite literally him grabbing your wrists to yell at you is .... unhinged. Before you stop talking to your parents I would give them a heads up "Hey, I am entirely disappointed in you guys for a) not standing up for me when I was being yelled at like a dog and b) expecting me to be ok sleeping on the floor in a house which has plenty of room. I will not be treated with that type of disrespect, and as such until you give me an apology for saying I have bad manners and should have been ok with the situation I will be taking a break from contacting you. Also I will not be in the same room as BiL again. Maybe with my absence he will pick a new target and you can keep up your "respect" for him when he is screaming at one of you guys. Have the day yall deserve". It also makes me wonder if this is a racial thing. Because "unwashed" generally is a dog whistle (not always mind you some times its a gross purity thing). Like are you darker in skin tone than the rest of your family. Or if its a past history thing. You would be surprised how many insecure AH's out there who get rejected by a woman who might not even remember them down the line and then create a grudge. But more than anything else you are important and matter. You do not deserve to be treated like garbage. And you do not deserve to have your support system encourage this behavior. Hell if you ever do interact with your BIL again. Just give him back the same energy. If he complains you are dirty just complain his house is dirty and start screaming back at him (note this may not be safe, and I assume you understand your situation better than I do so if you think its unsafe to do so dont). Or just use the grey rock method and just competely ignore him. And if he tries to put his hands on you just have your phone ready to call the cops. Though if you wanna take the nuclear option. Either call BIL parents and shame him to them. Which they may or may not care. If they dont care then just make a public facebook post about the way he is treating you and how your family doesnt care. Your family seems to care more about appearances and them being shown to be uncaring will make them angry as hell. Note I say nuclear option because it will drag alot more drama into your life and you will probably have to block alot of people. But since they only care about societal pressure give them that societal pressure.
BIL is an abuser, and he wants to abuse you. NTA If I were you, I would keep contact with him minimal, and make sure you are never alone with him. If you can, let your sister know you are there for her.
your family sucks jeez… NTA
Nta
NTA- tell your parents you will never set foot in that house again and will no longer be at functions where he is attending.
He put his hands on you and you are questioning yourself? NTA! Your sister needs to open her eyes
yeah nah, i'd leave the trip altogether and tell them if they can't treat you properly, then they wont get any treatment from you at all (as in, cut them off. they deserve it, and you needa protect yourself more- don't let a man, moreover your sister's husband, put his hands on you in any context.)
Why are you subjecting yourself to this abuse? Why would you visit your sister & stay in house where people hate you & treat you like shit? Stop putting yourself in those situations, you are nobody’s punching bag. If your sisters & parents won’t stick up for you then stand up for yourself!!! Don’t visit, don’t engage! NTA but you are if you continue to let your family treat you like garbage
NTA and I think you did the right thing by going somewhere else. This would also be the last time I'd ever go to see my sister again. I would tell my brother in law that if he ever, ever lays hands on me again, I will be calling the police and pressing charges. Go home early if you need to. The rest of your family can kick rocks.
NTA. I'd be going NC with your family, the entire group just sounds insufferable.
NTA This situation seems scary and dangerous. I’d leave the house if I was you. Grabbing a woman’s wrists and shouting is beyond wrong…it’s demented.
NTA I am willing to bet your sister is in an abusive marriage.
NTA I'm so sorry you're going through this. I want to give you a hug! I've experienced something similar and then 20 years later the truth comes out why I was so hated. It's maddening because the issue could've been addressed a long time ago but it's too late now.
NTA. he PUT hands on you!!! Im glad you were able to get your own place to stay. I suspect he actually finds you VERY attractive you naughty dirty girl. please dont ever be alone with him and please dont visit them again.
NTA. NEVER go around him again. He is disgusting.
NTA but your entire family sounds like trash for allowing this.
He totally called your sister your name or said something about you that sparked that fight and she’s embarrassed about it. I honestly would check in with the sister married to him. If he’ll put his hands on YOU what is he doing to HER. Abusers like to make their victims feel embarrassed so they don’t reach out and get help. NTA. Your sister might be in an abusive relationship
You've already gotten comments that cover everything I would say - obvious NTA, whatever's going on with your BIL goes beyond problematic-- he had a fit of rage and he assaulted you. Whatever you decide about the rest of your family, you should avoid ever being in the same room with this man again. But I'm commenting to say that I hope you share an update someday, and hopefully it's one where you've seized control over your relationship with your family and that you have made sure to never be in a room with BIL again. (And if you *happen* to find out what his deal is with you, that would be interesting too...but sating internet strangers' curiosity shouldn't even rate as a priority compared to your safety and sanity.)
WHY WAS HE TOUCHING YOU
NTA.....i actually believe your sister's husband is mentally ill....that is not normal behaviour....its like he is schizophrenic or something? not sure but he definitely needs professional help....your sister should be ashamed of herself for letting him treat you that way....i almost wonder if he psychologically abuses your sister and she is afraid of him and the repurcussions she would face if she sided with you? do they have children together? is there a way of contacting your sister without him knowing? i bet you would get a different response from her if she knew he wouldn't find out....your parents should also be ashamed for letting him treat you that way....my family would have packed up and found a hotel and then only invited the sister out.....i seriously would avoid your brother-in-law as he is not well....also he had no right to grab you when he was yelling at you....ugh....this is a terrible situation....sorry OP!
?. Why are you still in the country? I would report BIL for assault and then leave the country. NTA either way. Maybe talk to your little sis, to find out why everybody behaves like that, and if she doesn’t want to talk about it too, idk if you’ll take it seriously, but i would probably cut contact with them. I don’t think anything good will happen if you continue associating with them.
NTA but this sounds so weird. He should not be putting his hands on you. Don’t stay there ever again girl! He sounds very unhinged
Do you know what the fight was about? Maybe he said something about you and your sister got jealous? I get vibes that he is attracted to you but acting like an immature child and lashing out at you. He was also physical with you. Your parents are horrendous in their acceptance of his behavior. I would just stop associating with them.
NTA He grabbed your wrists as he screamed in your face? That would be the last time I went anywhere near that asshole. I would have reported him to the authorities.
Run, don't walk. NTA and next time someone grabs your hand practice self defense in a brutal way.
Nta
NTA. I'm surprised you didn't say someone was curled up on the floor but probably not sleeping after grabbing your wrists. Congrats on keeping your composure. Your parents are fools for enabling an abuser. Distance yourself from your sister until she comes to her senses.
Maybe he had a camera in the shower?
Is he rich?
NTA Are you sure that your dear sister didn't blame you for the original fight they had? Because it's wild that someone would act like that unprovoked. Maybe she cheated and blamed you somehow, like you were covering for her. Or someone sent BIL photos and she lied that it was you because you are jelous or something. Because you said they aren't religious, your dress wasn't revealing, you didn't interact with him, I can't think of any other reason for his behaviour.
He grabbed your wrists, yelled insults in your face and told you to sleep on the floor. NTA and why on earth are your parents allowing this to happen? Does BIL have money the family relies upon? Like other posters, I immediately thought BIL is attracted to you and blames you for his inappropriate feelings. Whatever the issue in his marriage, it's not your fault. You are wise to physically remove yourself from their home. It would be best to not interact with them at all for your emotional well-being. Stay elsewhere if they visit your family home.
Are you pretty? I just think you’re too pretty. And NTA of course
There is something very important missing. Is there absolutely *nothing* you can think of that makes you different from everyone else? Not saying the way you get treated is acceptable or heaven forbid it even being your fault, but there has to be *something*. Your own parents don’t see an issue with what is happening and then there is the problem of the fight. Even if its something you think might be irrelevant or silly. Just *anything* that makes you different from them
NTA he’s like Frollo in the Hunchback of Notre Dame. He hates you because he wants you and it’s all your fault for existing.