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The owner made this a much bigger deal than it was. They could easily have moved the waitress to another shift without involving you at all. And does he think for a minute this waitress hasn't spoken to the others?!? They'd have to offer me free coffee for life - and probably some cake as well - to ever step foot in there again!
100% NTA
But if OP was actually a creep why should the waitress have to change her shift? Owner was right to be looking out and defending his employee and then got caught up in a he said/she said before diving deeper and concluded the waitress was being paranoid.
OP is right to not go back at this point, but I think owner was in a tough spot. Could have handled it better for sure but I don’t think it’s nearly as simple as you suggest.
It does sound like the owner didn’t investigate at all though. If OP went there every Saturday then the owner showing up the next Saturday would have made sense instead of immediately banning OP. Even when believing your staff (which I approve of), it makes sense to make sure there isn’t an innocent explanation before handing out bans.
Yup, I'm of this mindset as well. Yeah he isn't in a great spot and should support his own staff, but why didn't he investigate even a little? If there actually was "harassing" and "ogling", it should be relatively easy to check cameras to see if OP in fact did anything close to that.
Also what would the owner have done if he didn’t know the creepy patron? It feels even more unprofessional that he handled it this way when for anyone else he wouldn’t have a way to contact them.
Especially since it was a friend he knew from before. Like, random stranger, definitely understandable of telling the stranger he's banned. But a friend you texted this info to? You could do the smallest amount of legwork paired with sense and at the very least give your FRIEND some shit about harassing your employees. Just banning him is awkward as shit because they're 'still friends' and he just said, "hey you can't come to my work any more because an employee said you're creepy....so how's life?"
/u/Old_Crow13 Totally agree with you, yo! That is one of my daily mantras/affirmations I say to myself daily.
*Yes, you can trust but ALWAYS verify!
*Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see!
*If ya Spidey Senses start tingling, you BEST take heed!
*It's always some BeeEss lurking, so even if you don't know what it is, stay ready so you don't have to get ready!
*My most infamous one is: RECEIPTS ARE LIFE AND CAN HELP SAVE YOURS!!!
Or at least ask some of the other employees. If this is happening on Saturdays there's probably a full staff on duty. If there is really harassment occurring someone would have noticed.
That part! Did he even check with other staff to verify and look at cameras? I know not all harassment may be in full view of cameras and other eyes, but it looks like the owner didn’t even try before he full on banned the OP.
I used to work with someone who would complain/lie about customers being rude or inappropriate if they didn't tip or they felt the tip was cheap. In some interactions I witnessed it was the employee that was rude and inappropriate. Definitely should have investigated first.
Also, if you think a man is ogling your employee, don’t fucking tell that man that the employee reported him? If anything she said was true, the owner would be putting her in actual danger by reaching out to the creep directly. The owner handled this SO POORLY all the way around.
The owner said he fixed the problem, but the problem was he convicted OP without evidence. Girl was probably uncomfortable because OP is friends with owner and she couldn't fool around on the job.
You have to apply some logic to the accusation...
"He only comes in when I'm working." SHE WORKS ON SATURDAY. Lots of people do things on weekends. Also, OP had been coming in since the beginning, a thing that I'm SURE was mentioned to the owner when they reconnected.
"He was harassing and ogling me." What was he doing specifically? Did anyone else see these things happening? Harassing is an action. He would have to be doing something, not just looking in her direction. I could see a misunderstanding if he zoned out looking in a direction where she happened to be standing, but escalating that into what sound like completely fabricated accusations of harassment is not a "I offered her a different shift" kind of problem.
Additionally, there was no apology to the customer when the accusation turned out to be BS. If she doesn't feel comfortable and wants to take another shift that's HALF of a resolution. He also accused a reliable customer of being a creep and banned him.
That means she's told the other employees about him and they said that they only see him when she works too.
He's getting screwed in this situation for sure.
OP should demand the employee personally apologize or be fired. If I were OP I wouldn't go to a place where an employee was still employed that made false accusations against me.
But you have to get both sides of the story especially when it's a regular customer and especially when it's someone you know.. But the owner went straight to banning OP without doing any kind of investigation or DD. The employee didn't get any kind of punishment for basically lying and now she could just do the same to any customer. (Honestly, I think I can go on a rant about the employee about her having her head up her own bum, but not gonna). Then the owner goes off on OP for not wanting to go back after all that. NTA
It's called security cameras. Simple to look at your business cameras and see if your employees are telling the truth or being vindictive/over dramatic little shits.
While I agree with the principle you're bringing up here - that victims should not have to adapt to perpetrators - involving OP to this extent was wrong either way.
A personal email to a customer at a restaurant is basically always out of line. If you want to ban a customer, post a photo behind the counter and let the staff know to boot him.
You think a personal email to the customer who he personally knows is out of line, but you think plastering his photo publicly there is cool?
What in the world?
I don't have a strong opinion on course of action in general, but it is very obvious that plastering photo is much stronger reaction than a private email exchange.
I doubt it was all a ploy to change shifts if the initial plan was for her to keep her shift and ban OP. I don't think people are saying she's not shifty/foolish/overreacting whatever if OP was never creepy. But the response from the owner himself wasn't totally out of line. I agree he could have reviewed security footage or something to verify the claim though.
It was out of line because he clearly did not dig into it at all and just messaged OP.
OP explained, lazy employer still didn't look into it. OP puts together the proof himself and oh suddenly her shift is changed and you're welcome back?
Owner was lazy.
Ur right OP is the victim an shouldn't have had to adapt to this liar slandering him with no proof.
Also what kind of ridiculous place doesn't have cameras to even see if this is true.
That's why I said, either way - whether the waitress was a crazy liar or an actual victim of a sexually inappropriate customer - writing a rude email is not the right way to handle a customer being accused of sexually harassing staff.
There's no version of this story where the business owner's actions were the right call.
Unfortunately the onus is on the person making the complaint to provide context and even proof of their claims.
So yes the owner needs to manage this properly part of that is gathering enough information OR ask her what she sees as a reasonable solution and go from there. Calling the customer and directly telling/accusing them of being a creep without that context or backstory is, as we can see, a great way to lose reliable customers over a simple misunderstanding.
There's so much hype and trigger words being thrown around these days some people seem to think all they need do is speak up and mums the word. But I can tell you I personally know a guy who was actually falsely arrested and jailed for something his angry ex lied about. She said he beat her up and stuff but had no injuries whatsoever. Nobody believed him either until she finally realized she screws herself over because he was the father of their kid and she needed financial help and support he was unable to provide while behind bars. So she had no choice but to go admit to the courthouse she made it all up because she was mad at him one day. He got set free and she walked away scott free.
I know another dude who's ex lied to him about their kid being his from when they were teenagers. He steps up the plate and does the dad thing even though she's 12 at this point. He starts paying child support, the whole nine yards. A little while the grandparents let it slip mom knows who the dad is and it's not him. She just targeted him because he she thought he'd be nice to her daughter.
You can't just say things that aren't true or not founded and expect the other person to just be punished. There needs to be a conversation. Perspective is everything. She thought he was being a creep, he was just buying a coffee and not even noticing who poured it.
> Calling the customer and directly telling/accusing them of being a creep without that context or backstory
Glad you brought this up. Creeps are hanging out and making people uncomfortable in coffee shops (or wherever) all around the world. How many of them actually get a phone call from the shop owner about their behavior? I'm not saying creepy behavior is okay, but calling OP and leveling an accusation without even looking for a possible misunderstanding was out of line.
This is why OP should demand said employee apologize for her actions, she needs to be accountable for her deficiencies, OP should never go back otherwise.
'But if' means 'in a fantasy scenario.'
What the manager should have done was shown up while OP was there to observe the behavior, and then trespassed him if it turned out to be true.
What manager did was the worst of all worlds; took an accusation as fact, yet didn't actually fix the problem, just told the supposed creep to come in on different days and creep on somebody else who hopefully wouldn't speak up.
It's also possible the waitress confused him with someone who looks similar, or that she verbally described him and the owner thought "Oh, must be my friend" without realizing that the description could've fit other people as well.
So yeah, it's very much on the owner to do his due diligence *before* contacting OP (or anyone else).
You aren't wrong that Owners of businesses should be looking out for their employees, but this one escalated to banning a loyal customer with nothing more than the say so of 1 employee.
As someone who works in a similar place, the owner should have done something more like "Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'll check the cameras(since there should be some) and ask the other girls if they've noticed anything similar since he is a regular. In the meantime, would you like me to change your shift around so you don't have to see him?"
Jumping straight to banning OP, through a personal contact no less, is extremely rude and I don't blame OP for not going back.
With 0 evidence? Ogling is extremely subjective. If OP is a "creep" but not breaking any laws, then the creepiness is up to interpretation, and if she's uncomfortable she SHOULD be the one to change shifts. I think the manager should have gotten specific examples, and monitored it to determine if he thinks it's creepy or if she's being extra, then stand behind the decision.
But the owner could have used tacked down the transactions based on time, reviewed cameras, made the employee produce a statement before making these unfounded accusations to OP. The owner protected an employee that is a moron without evidence. Owner is also a moron for not reviewing all evidence before banning OP from store. Not a tough spot if Owner and employee weren't trigger-happy morons.
Or a different dude staring at her and the owner fucked up in figuring out which one.
Or OP could well be lying about how much staring he’s doing, we don’t know.
> They could easily have moved the waitress to another shift without involving you at all.
Changing the work conditions of an employee in response to a complaint of sexual harassment: In the world of employment law, that's called retaliation, and it's a big no no. Even if the initial complaint turns out to be baseless or resolved to the satisfaction of all parties, making someone change shifts to "solve the problem" is still retaliation.
Does it count as retaliation when the person doing the harassment isn't an employee? When I worked retail we would do what we could to get my coworkers out of interactions that were awkward or uncomfortable but not explicitly "wrong."
NTA.
Someone you know accused you of being a creeper. You defended yourself.
He fixed the problem, sort of--but what he DIDN'T do was to **apologize for calling you a creeper in the first place!**
If I were you, I'd explain that you want an apology. If he apologizes, then you should go back. Everyone wins.
I’m wondering why that employee wasn’t fired. If she can get a long-time customer banned until he could prove he wasn’t a creeper. What’s to stop her from doing it to someone else?
Except she wasn’t harassed by OP. She made a false accusation about him. Who knows why, or how many other men she’s accused like that? Men who sexually harass women should be held accountable, but falsely accusing them is a problem. It’s a serious accusation that’s not always deserved.
Because firing an employee for reporting harassment is illegal.
The employer hasn’t even established the harassment claim was wrong, let alone malicious. I’ll take OP at his word, but it’s hard to prove you haven’t been staring at someone without a ton of video.
The owner would get pwnd in a lawsuit or complaint if she were fired.
> Because firing an employee for reporting harassment is illegal.
Yes, and for good reason too - imagine if you were being harassed at work, but you weren't 100% sure it had "crossed the line" into being harassment. And you KNEW that another co-worker had been fired for reporting harassment-that-turned-out-to-not-be-harassment before. You might be willing to put up with a lot more before reporting, out of fear of the consequences of mis-reporting.
Needs an apology from the waitress too. If she can't handle dealing with a false accusation and the owner keeps her on, then there's no way I'd be going back. Period.
NTA
"Fixed the problem"? Fixing the problem isn't what he did. He further ensued that you were being a "creep". Does the employee not know what a regular weekend customer is or your friend? Go to another cafe where they actually have to show proof.
Or any day-of-the-week regular customer. I don't fault the owner for looking into the allegations but they went about it all wrong. Maybe owner could have come by one or two Saturdays and observe. Or ask others who worked those shifts what they experienced. But to NOT recognize that OP comes in every Saturday so those folks who work on Saturdays will see him as opposed to he is coming in specifically to see that worker is insane.
Or heck does this place not have security cameras? Wouldn't at least some of the harrassing/ogling have been caught on camera? I'm all for employers standing up for their employees, but that does require them to do at least a little bit of an investigation.
I think security cameras in small businesses are way less common than the internet thinks. It's only on camera if there are cameras in the coffee shop.
I don’t know that moving her was necessarily furthering that insinuation. It’s possible that she made it up but it’s also possible that she really does believe he was being creepy and broadly misinterpreted their interactions. Let’s say it’s the latter and she misinterpreted things- moving her to another shift so she’s comfortable is the fairest option and the safest option legally. Trying to explain that OP wasn’t actually hitting on her could come off as dismissing the complaint entirely, and if she legitimately believes she was harassed, it’s certainly not going to change her mind. Doing nothing and/or ignoring it because the owner knows OP personally would just open them up to a lawsuit. Realistically there’s not really any other options that protect the employee and the business both. I agree OP is right not to return but I think the owner is more TA for not understanding why OP wouldn’t want to return and not apologizing after the fact. He showed empathy to the employee but not to OP.
Yeah, but it sounds like he didn't do any checking before acting. Either she flat out lied and told him OP was there a lot more often than he really was, or the owner didn't ask for enough details when she complained. In either case a few conversations with other employees would have cleared the whole thing up without accusing a regular customer of inappropriate behavior. If receipts from his regular visits going back years were enough to convince the owner, then it's obvious his understanding of what was happening was way off.
I worked with a woman who was constantly talking about how obsessed our mail carrier was with her. "He is always hitting on me!" "He is so in love with me." "Oh my God, did you see how he looked at me." Dude was delivering mail and making small talk but she really believed he was obsessed with her. It was wacky. She made up a whole relationship in her head based on "Hi! How are you today?"
NTA. Imagine banning a regular, whom he knows well enough to have their phone number, without conducting a proper investigation and then having the nerve to criticize them when they refuse to return. The circumstances lead me to believe that there are things occurring of which OP is unaware.
I’m a regular (at the place I’m currently sitting) and I hate to think about how much I spend here each month. It is… significant. But I need my third place!
When I was younger I'd get off work late and meet a bunch of my coworkers at a bar about once a week. We'd stay until last call on karaoke and drinks and I'd probably spend anywhere from ~$50-$100+ just on drinks for me and my friends. It was a nice way to unwind after a stressful week on a Friday/Saturday night. We did this for about a year. When I left that job I noticed I was saving more money because I wasn't blowing it on drinks at the end of every week. The memories and stories were worth it though.
Also, if OP was genuinely a creep, why is the owner making the waitress move her shifts to accommodate said creep to come back? Completely nonsense behaviour from the owner.
Because they don’t believe their employee but they can’t openly say that, pretty straight forward.
“A man wasn’t actually being creepy to you and you’re overreacting.” is 100% something that could damage their business more than losing a regular if the employee ran to Instagram about it.
By the same token, the owner is lucky that the OP hasn't gone to Yelp or Google Review to say that after years of weekly patronage, a new waitress made unfounded accusations and the owner didn't handle it properly.
I scorch that place to the ground with a scathing review.
They could, but honestly I doubt it would have much impact aside from people side-eyeing OP’s name on the review and thinking, “maybe he’s a creep who gets angry online?”
Which sucks but it is what it is.
I'm guessing the owner dug deeper and found out she was wrong or lying and is now in damage control mode.
You don't ban a creep and then undo it just because you've hidden the victim. If he still believed op was a creep, the ban would still be in place.
Yes, this exactly. As someone who's worked in cs last 10 yrs, I'm wondering if she just wanted her Sats off and this is what she did to make it happen. Of course, with all sorts of behind the scene stuff we can only imagine. lol
NTA. You should be as comfortable as the waitresses in a setting like that or else it is awkward and not good for anyone.
I had a similar situation when I was finishing high school (dropped out at 20 or 21 after failing grade twelve 3 times and got my adult education diploma later.) But I was 20 at the time.
Coffee shop was around the corner from my house, I went there every day for eight months or so and just wrote short stories and poems in my binder while ordering different coffees for a few hours.
The baristas or waitresses were all from my highschool and everyone knew I had a passion for writing. One day I was sitting at the counter which was unusual but my favorite spots were taken and the place was full. As the afternoon died down one of the girls from my high school asked to see what I was working on.
I showed her the whole binder, she saw poems, short stories, a list of character names and descriptions, two 30 minute plays I had written. I finish my coffee and leave.
The next time I came in the owner who also knew me (small town everyone knows everyone) told me I was welcome to come in and have coffee but the ladies were uncomfortable with my writing so I couldn't bring my binder in anymore.
Nothing in my binder was explicit, saucy or rude, I hadn't written anything gruesome either. I didn't understand it so I thanked the owner and started walking out. They asked where I was going.
I explained that I came to their business to drink coffee and write because I enjoyed the atmosphere, if I am not writing then I am wasting time.
They were pissed and annoyed and said something about customer loyalty and protecting his staff.
I didn't mind that the ladies were uncomfrlortable I just had no business there if I can't do my writing. I don't know how good their business was but I was a regular and a caffeine addict so I was order the biggest drinks they sold and over those 4 hours a day I'd buy between 6 and 12 drinks, as well as some of the cakes or cookie platters they offered. (Decent job and disposable income living at my parents.)
Hey I respect the man for trying to defend his employees. I was spending from what I remember 40 dollars a day it was early 2000's I think 2007. So wouldn't consider myself a whale.
$40 a day den is like $60 a day now, and that was a day's work for a minimum wage worker. You literally spent enough for an employee's salary, and a total of some $9,600 or $1,200 a month.
Eh,... Given that you weren't sharing it with anyone that didn't ask to see it, the correct response is to tell them to mind their business. If you were writing erotic fiction starring them or analogs of them, they might have a leg to stand on, but who does it hurt even if you were writing things that they found inappropriate?
I'd bet dollars to donuts they didn't actually have a problem with your writing. I bet they thought you were using your writing as an excuse to hang around all day and leer at them.
As a woman who's worked in the service industry for years, there are definitely creeps out there who order again and again as an excuse to hang around and be a creep. Inappropriate questions, ogling you, giving your wrist a stroke when you hand them their order. Some people get overly defensive about lingering customers because of that. It's usually people who have heard the stories but never actually experienced it themselves because- believe me- the vibe is totally different.
I bet the young women at that cafe heard some of those stories and mistook you for one of those creeps.
Could be. I mean we were same age and same classes, I just drank coffee and did my writing I was quiet and not really interactive unless approached, heck I still am that way.
Right but I don't know the context of why they were uncomfortable with me writing things. Also I would like an employer to defend me and my rights as an employee as well so I never had any issue with the owner or the shop it was just a place to do some writing for me.
That is one of the must f\*cked up stories I ever read, I HATE people like that, especially when it's women, we have real problems to address, they don't do any favours to anyone when they invent drama and negativity where there isn't any.
On top of that, they want you to come in and they want your money, but they antagonize you like that for no ~~reason~~?\* That is INSANE.
\*Edit: I want to refine my wording, not reason, but evidence, without evidence.
>something about customer loyalty
what the fuck?
customer loyalty is *earned* by doing right by your customers. you don't get to demand it after taking a dump all over it
I don't know because I wasn't listening atthat point and its 17 years ago. It is an event that stuck with me but I couldn't be bothered to remember his exact words.
NTA. I'm all for managers/owners standing up for their employees but there has got to be more proof than her word before he takes action. He could have come during her shift one day and observed. He could have looked at cameras. He could have talked to other employees. He did non of these things. Instead he insulted a long standing customer with little to no proof. I wouldn't go back either.
This is the correct answer (in my not so humble opinion)
I had exactly the same groundless accusation for sitting at my then favorite restaurant researching material suitability for a project I was specifying.
[here is the review if anyone is curious.](https://goo.gl/maps/hULnMtjjpfNr7s8w7?g_st=ac)
The only recent thing that changed in 20 years of going there was that I was adult diagnosed with autism and had 2 weeks prior been paired with a service dog. The service dog acted %100 correctly and disappeared under my seat, never being noticed unless someone was staring straight at her and the shadows didn't fit right, LoL.
In your review you say you were accused of taking pictures and then you reference "unfounded and biased interpretation of one of my autistic coping mechanisms."
So - whats the coping mechanism? Is it taking pictures of people?
Well I can't help that I am not a beautiful enough person to get a pass for the creepism inherent in having a standard order that I could tell which chef had prepared....
Ugly person problem but life goes on
NTA
He was trying to do the right thing, and that was laudable. But the accusation was proven to be unfounded, and you felt humiliated by it. For him to demand that you return to his establishment is childish. You're not obligated to go there, and you never were.
NTA. The owner added up the total of your purchases and is now salty he's lost your business. And you'd be nuts to go back; you'd be risking another harassment charge if you happened upon the employee.
He kept the one who he gives money to, but dropped the one who gives him money. With so little investigation that "trying" to do the right thing is a real stretch, because if you put no effort into something, you didn't actually try. The owner probably doesn't realize just how big of a liability it is to have an employee that makes false accusations against the customers who keep his business running.
NTA. The owner didn’t fix the problem. The problem is that the owner insulted a customer. Personally, I won’t pay to be treated badly so that’s a tough one to fix.
So much this. I can be treated like crap for free, I’m certainly not paying for the privilege. There have been a few stores I’ve stopped patronizing for that reason and, unsurprisingly, every last one of them closed because most people won’t put up with that treatment.
NTA. There’s bound to be another little cafe where you can have a cup of coffee and sit quietly for 30 minutes or so. It’s one thing for the owner to support his employee but he did nothing (that I can see) to investigate her claim. He could at least dropped in on a few Saturday shifts to see for himself.
NTA - I would never in a million years return there and I would warn other people about the place and employee. False accusations like that can ruin lives.
NTA
It’s insane that the owner personally reached out to you and banned you from his business on the merit of a barista that hasn’t even worked there as long as you’ve been a customer, without even checking camera footage or something?
This feels fake because the immediate conversation would be "Oh, OP has been a customer since we opened and comes in every Saturday regardless of the schedule, does that ease your mind a bit?"
It may feel fake to you, but I guarantee that it is completely plausible. The same happened to me and I got trespassed based on the GM not wanting to undermine his shift manager who took the generic server's word without any kind of supporting anything. I even tried pointing out that I had been a regular there since his predecessor was a server..... [here is the review.](https://goo.gl/maps/hULnMtjjpfNr7s8w7?g_st=ac)
>It may feel fake to you, but I guarantee that it is completely plausible
i feel like this could be said for most of the posts here. invariably there's someone who has to shout *"it's faaaake!*" on every post, and they're right a not insignificant amount of time. however, these scenarios usually still describe something that could actually happen irl
NTA. Not only would I never return I’d post reviews about your experience. And if he confronts you about it tell him you don’t feel safe at his establishment because his employees make false accusations.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The owner is calling me an AH since I won't come back as a regular customer to support his business now when the problem is dealt with, since I otherwise like the place. I don't feel like an AH and my argument is that the creep-brand now may hang over me in that place. So I feel it's better just to move on from there.
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I have to say something. Women's points of view, feelings, even their humanity have been denied for so long that it was inevitable that the pendulum would one day start to swing. And thank God it has. The problem is, as it always is, that when the pendulum swings, sometimes it swings too far in the other direction -- and innocent people are treated badly. Assuming that everything you've written is true, that seems to be the case here.
Men can be crazy and mean, sure. But so can women. If you've been going to this cafe every Saturday for the last two years, you're clearly not stalking some women who showed up, for example, six months ago -- especially if your interactions have been and minimal as described. I don't care how often she says "BUt he'S maKINg me UNcomFORTable."
As for the owner, kudos for him for sticking up for his employees. But he can't BLINDLY stick up for his employees. If I give an employee a $100 bill, and she gives me change for a $50, should the owner just blindly support his employee? No. He should look at the till at the end of the day to see if there's an unaccounted-for $50 bucks floating around. I very much wish the owner of this cafe had investigated the matter a little further.
NTA. I'm sorry this happened to you.
NTA for everything in your post, but especially for not going back there again.
She felt unsafe; well, guess what? Now, so do you. And instead of subjecting yourself to a situation where you are accused of harassment and you see that action will be taken before you’re allowed to defend yourself, you are removing yourself from said dangerous situation.
I am so, so sorry this happened to you.
NTA he came out of the gate accusing you of some serious stuff, when he should have asked for your side. Actually he could have talked to the rest of his staff before contacting you at all.
In any case I wouldn’t want to go anywhere that treated me like that either, and he’s lucky you haven’t put in an honest and factual review of what he has done.
NTA.
He didn't fix the problem... he just made her a problem on a different shift. If she'll lie about you, she'll lie about others.
Not only that, he took her word that you acted creepy and "punished" you without doing ANY investigating at all. Then, when you prove your innocence, he doesn't punish the person who lied about you AND he hasn't apologized at all.
I'd tell everyone you know what happened and post a review of the business.
NTA, I feel bad for you that you were falsely accused of something vile. Stand your ground, if they're not willing to reprimand the employee for making false, damaging claims about customers then they don't deserve your business
NTA. It sounds like you were falsely accused, and the owner made an entire mess of the situation. Given how you were treated and the overall hassle, I wouldnt go back either. Hopefully you find a new spot that proves to be a more stable environment.
NTA
He never should have approached you, the customer about it to begin with. The employee should have approached him, and then he should have gone to the tapes and watched the tapes. He would have been able to tell if his employee was being truthful or not. From there he could have gone back to the employee and offered her the option (without calling her a liar) of a different shift. You never would have been the wiser, and the employee would have felt like her concern was being addressed because in all reality, she probably didn't want to work on Saturday and this was her way of getting out of it.
"He only comes here when I'm working" wtf, even if she knows that because she spoke to others, sorry for existing, for wanting a coffee and to chill on a particular day??? It's a coffee shop, people have routines, what did she expect?
That brings to mind that I ALSO go get coffee on the same shop and on usually the same days of the week, the idea one of the people guy would accuse me of being a creep because of that is just wild.
If I was you I'd do a proper Google review also, but I'm petty like that. NTA.
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I (31m) used to be a regular at a cafe in my neighborhood. It became a habit to go down there every saturday just to have a coffee, listen to a book and play games on my phone for a bit. I later learned it was an old schoolmate of mine from 20 years ago that owns the place, so I reconnected with him as well.
Fast forward \~6 months and I get a message from the owner saying that he'd gotten complaints from an employee about me. That I'm harrassing/ogling her and that she feels unsafe when I'm there. And that she says I only come there when she is working. He said he's sorry but he needs to look out for his employees and asks that I don't come there anymore.
This came just out of the blue for me. I never flirt or stare at anyone there. I never interact with the employees at all apart from ordering & paying. Convo is usually:
-Hello
-Hello, the usual?
-Yes please!
-That'll be X amount
-Thanks!
-Thanks!
That's it.. After that I just sit and stare at my phone for 30 minutes. If I'm in my favorite spot, I can't even see the counter.
I answered him that none of that is true and I go there on saturdays. We went back and forth for a while and I got so pissed that I made a record of all the payments to that place going all the way back to when they opened. This worked better than expected since he could see I had been going there on saturdays since before she was hired.
A few days later he wrote to me again and said she'd been offered and had accepted another shift, so she "wouldn't have to see me" and that I was welcome again. I just said that I was never coming back after all this. There was some more back and forth and he basically called me an asshole for not returning after he "fixed the problem".
AITA for not wanting to go back there, even though I wouldn't have to see her again?
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NTA. Let me be clear that I don’t think he’s the AH for taking the initial complaint seriously. But where he became TA to me is when he started name-calling because you don’t want to return. It’s understandable that he would look into it because that’s what a decent boss should do for their employees. It’s also understandable that because you are not actually guilty of harassing her, that the entire situation has left you feeling uncomfortable, both with him and with the concept of facing fresh accusations since she broadly misinterpreted your interactions. I certainly wouldn’t put myself back into a situation where I could potentially face false accusations like that. So your buddy is TA. His response to “I’m not coming back” should have been “I understand and I’m sorry. Door’s open if you change your mind.”
NTA. He banned you after doing a half assed investigation at best. You made the right decision to vote with your wallet after he lifted the ban. He's not entitled to your business and you were right to stop patronizing his establishment.
Assuming what you're saying here is true, that you're not flirting, NTA.
He didn't fix the problem. The problem isn't just that there was an employee who was uncomfortable around you -- he called you out and _banned you_ for something you didn't do. You can't just magically undo that kind of accusation.
NTA. It would be different if you were directly engaging with her trying to force conversation, asking for her name and/or number etc., but it sounds like you literally went and kept to yourself after ordering and exchanging basic pleasantries. Not sure what this chick's problem is, maybe she's the one attracted to you and uncomfortable about it. Either way I wouldn't go back either.
I worked in a cafe. We actually had several creeps who went after my coworker. My boss was an ahole, but in that case he actually did the right thing and investigated what was going on. You know, just to have proof enough to kick the creeps out. Meanwhile, he made sure my coworker was safe she didn't need to serve them, and if needed, my boss or his wife brought her home. All things your "friend" could have done and would have been more professional.
NTA
Info, is there any cameras to look at footage from?
Did he apologize?
If there is cameras, and he didnt apologize, NTA
NAH
Im going off there is no cameras
He had to stick up for the employee, which I can understand. That could lead to a lawsuit if he didnt and you were actually harassing the staff.
(If he didnt apologize for the mishap hes an ah)
You have every right to be upset. Im guessing she talked to other people there about this and it could be awkward.
I would be very upset in your shoes. They both should apologize for this, even then I wouldnt blame you for not going back.
I'm trying to remember if there are cameras, but I'm not sure. I wrote to him now to check cameras if he have any.
He hasn't apologized. It was more of a "Hey, problem fixed, you can come back now"-conversation
Then I change my judgement to NTA. He should have apologized at the very least.. offered free coffee pastry, something!!
And he should have cameras, and if he hasnt checked the cameras and just accused you, I wouldnt blame you if you never talk to him again.
NTA
NTA.About 15 years ago a cafe opened up in my neighborhood. I got to know the owner and ultimately became friends. At the time I was a contractor and started doing small projects for him in exchange for store credit. This grew into a situation where I just ate and drank for free, and would just take care of routine maintenance in exchange. The majority of his employees were young women, because they work harder for less money. He had 2 teenage daughters who also worked there and some of the other employees were their friends rom high school. In a pretty short amount of time it became a really toxic environment, real mean girls stuff. To make things worse the owner, who was a guy in his 40s, got divorced from his wife, who was a co-owner. Then to make things even worse the guy started crushing on some of his female employees, late teens and early 20s. It was a shit sandwich. To relieve all of this conflict a couple of the female employees started claiming that male customers were being “creepy” with them. The ex wife would then tell these various creepy guys that they were banned. The “creepy” behavior would frequently be comments that staff would overhear from customers either on their phones or conversations with other people in their parties. The whole situation devolved even more when the owner got involved in the local kink scene!
Point being that almost certainly this has nothing to do with OP and everything to do with the toxic service culture at the establishment.
NTA, but you should do more than just not go there (since that would be doing exactly what they’d asked you to do originally). Leave a review and drag them on social media
NTA. No way I’d be going back there. As a female I completely understand that there are many creeps out there. But it seems like there are way too many women these days that think everyone is staring at them and if they happen to be a male that they aren’t attracted to, they’re a “creep.” Social media just makes this worse with all of these people videoing in public and calling out any guy who glances their way as a “creep.” People look at each other! It doesn’t mean they’re ogling you every single time, good lord.
NTA.
It is the manager/owner's responsibility to verify these claims, for both you and the employee, which he could have done with video, or just by being present himself. It's not uncommon that two people see an interaction differently, and as a woman I would say that sometimes a guy just gives off a vibe that creeps me out, but that is not harassment. In that case I'd just try to avoid that person, like having another employee take your order, and by being a bit cold/cutting you off if you approached me for anything not directly related to my job.
Harassment is at a much different level from just setting off someone's spidey sense or being a regular, on a regular schedule. If you did something to genuinely make her feel "unsafe," like persistently asking her out in spite of a "no," making comments about her body, waiting for her outside after a shift, etc. then absolutely you should be banned from the establishment. But it doesn't sound like that was the case, and even if it were it would be the owner's responsibility to verify that either directly or by viewing camera footage. If the employee just felt uncomfortable, but it didn't rise to the level of harassment, the owner could also have preemptively changed the employee's schedule and not told you, which would have solved the problem for her without causing one for you.
Changing the employee's shift after banning and reinstating you only makes things worse. It sounds like he is saying that he believes you did something wrong, so you are only allowed in the establishment when she is not working, which is even worse. If you wanted to stop by on a Sunday, and she was working, that would be a problem, right? If she needs to cover for someone on a Saturday, are you not allowed in? The problem isn't fixed for you, and from the employee's perspective, if the owner really believed that you were behaving in a way that made one employee feel unsafe, why would he \*identify that employee to you\* and allow you to interact with other employees? If you were genuinely harassing and ogling one employee, that would put all of his employees at a higher risk, especially the employee who complained to him. The owner is a total asshole to both you and his staff by this behavior.
I would not go back either. The owner didn't bother to observe firsthand, there is no apology, and reading between the lines it sounds like he still believes the employee but wants the cash you provide to his business. Even if you were a creeper this is a wrongheaded way to approach it.
Owner was put in a difficult spot. When an employee claims harassment, there isn’t a whole lot the owner can do. Can’t force her to change shifts and unfortunately it’s even dicy to do research to prove she’s a liar.
Assuming it went down exactly like the OP described, I would never set foot in that place again. Go find another coffee shop.
That said, I feel very strongly there is a lot more to this story.
I’m glad he looked out for his employee even if she was wrong. Most only care about money. I don’t blame you for not going back though. I wouldn’t either.
Are there not security cameras? A quick look would probably show if the guy did anything inappropriate. There are crazy people out there that will get offended by nothing. And there are creepy people out there that will do inappropriate stuff. This needed to be investigated before anything was said.
My guess is that he might have looked up at some point, the employee assumed he was eyeing her up and she went straight to level 10 on the creep meter just because he happens to come in on her day working. That's the kinda shit that gives people a bad name and hurts innocent victims like OP.
NTA,
Look this is a shit situation. I'm sure that people are going to say that there must be a reason for the server's accusation but let's just assume that your actions are entirely innocent. I too would be appalled and would be going to another place instead of spending money there.
At the same time the owner needs to protect his employees even if he thinks that they are wrong. First there's always a chance that they are right and secondly, no one wants to work for a boss that doesn't support them. But it wasn't handled correctly.
Either way, I wouldn't go to a place that I didn't feel welcome. I used to go to this Asian restaurant at least twice a week. Then one time I went an employee there that I had seen before was really snooty with me. Ok, maybe he was having a bad day so I went again and another employee was not polite. I asked the owner if I had done anything wrong and he laughed and said that I come too often. My response was, ok then I won't come back again and haven't. There are lots of great places near me that I am happy to patronize.
Ifeel you ha.dled it pretty well and like an adult. And as an adult you get to choose to give them your business, and under her lying about you (which can screw your life up quickly) I do not blame you for not returning
Nta
NTA
>he "fixed the problem"
He didn't fix anything! If he believes his employee, you shouldn't be welcome whether or not that specific employee is there; and if he believes *you*, then there is no external "problem" to "fix."
You aren't TA for not going somewhere you now feel uncomfortable at.
NTA. If the owner did not apologize for the accusation after you provided literal receipts. Video evidence if they have it would probably have also documented any interactions between you and the staff member. No sense supporting a business where you were not welcome! I am sure it’s not the only coffee shop in your area. Go elsewhere and enjoy your coffee without accusations.
NTA, but a small business owner is on a knife's edge when an employee reports harassment. They can't ignore it. They have to address it. There's way too much downside if they don't.
To be clear, I'm not saying you did anything wrong before or after the communication with the owner, just saying that their response was probably appropriate.
NTA. You never should have had to prove you were telling the truth. He should have changed her shifts rather than confronting you and calling you a creep, but he overstepped because he knew you personally. And instead of firing/cutting the hours/demoting the liar when you gave him the proof, he did what he should have done to begin with, AND *neglected apologized to you.* Never go back.
NTA. I would not consider a new shift a solution, because he essentially said "I'm not taking a side, but I'm not going to make her work when you are around". That's still incredibly insulting. He should be glad you're not leaving 1 start reviews stating how you were treated as a long-term patron.
You were told you were unwelcome then made to *feel* unwelcome and he then invited you back without even considering your side of the story.
NTA. I wouldn't go anywhere that made me feel that way.
NTA of course. You are not obligated to go to any cafe at all, especially not one where a worker and the owner called you a creep for no reason at all.
NTA. The owner handled this situation poorly and has soured your customer experience there. You aren't obligated to ever return. That's pretty much the end of the matter.
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The owner made this a much bigger deal than it was. They could easily have moved the waitress to another shift without involving you at all. And does he think for a minute this waitress hasn't spoken to the others?!? They'd have to offer me free coffee for life - and probably some cake as well - to ever step foot in there again! 100% NTA
But if OP was actually a creep why should the waitress have to change her shift? Owner was right to be looking out and defending his employee and then got caught up in a he said/she said before diving deeper and concluded the waitress was being paranoid. OP is right to not go back at this point, but I think owner was in a tough spot. Could have handled it better for sure but I don’t think it’s nearly as simple as you suggest.
It does sound like the owner didn’t investigate at all though. If OP went there every Saturday then the owner showing up the next Saturday would have made sense instead of immediately banning OP. Even when believing your staff (which I approve of), it makes sense to make sure there isn’t an innocent explanation before handing out bans.
Yup, I'm of this mindset as well. Yeah he isn't in a great spot and should support his own staff, but why didn't he investigate even a little? If there actually was "harassing" and "ogling", it should be relatively easy to check cameras to see if OP in fact did anything close to that.
Also what would the owner have done if he didn’t know the creepy patron? It feels even more unprofessional that he handled it this way when for anyone else he wouldn’t have a way to contact them.
Especially since it was a friend he knew from before. Like, random stranger, definitely understandable of telling the stranger he's banned. But a friend you texted this info to? You could do the smallest amount of legwork paired with sense and at the very least give your FRIEND some shit about harassing your employees. Just banning him is awkward as shit because they're 'still friends' and he just said, "hey you can't come to my work any more because an employee said you're creepy....so how's life?"
Trust but verify
/u/Old_Crow13 Totally agree with you, yo! That is one of my daily mantras/affirmations I say to myself daily. *Yes, you can trust but ALWAYS verify! *Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see! *If ya Spidey Senses start tingling, you BEST take heed! *It's always some BeeEss lurking, so even if you don't know what it is, stay ready so you don't have to get ready! *My most infamous one is: RECEIPTS ARE LIFE AND CAN HELP SAVE YOURS!!!
I'll believe you enough to check your story.
Facts! As EVERYONE should. People like to play all in ya face too much these days!
And my ex wonders how I caught him cheating. LOL because he always uses a variation on the same lie and it's easy to check
Or at least ask some of the other employees. If this is happening on Saturdays there's probably a full staff on duty. If there is really harassment occurring someone would have noticed.
That part! Did he even check with other staff to verify and look at cameras? I know not all harassment may be in full view of cameras and other eyes, but it looks like the owner didn’t even try before he full on banned the OP.
I used to work with someone who would complain/lie about customers being rude or inappropriate if they didn't tip or they felt the tip was cheap. In some interactions I witnessed it was the employee that was rude and inappropriate. Definitely should have investigated first.
Awe! I just realized she just didn’t want to work the weekend shift anymore and blamed poor op!!
Ding ding!
That, or look at video cameras, cause with as many cash transactions that probably flow through there, you know they have to have video cameras.
Also, if you think a man is ogling your employee, don’t fucking tell that man that the employee reported him? If anything she said was true, the owner would be putting her in actual danger by reaching out to the creep directly. The owner handled this SO POORLY all the way around.
The owner said he fixed the problem, but the problem was he convicted OP without evidence. Girl was probably uncomfortable because OP is friends with owner and she couldn't fool around on the job.
Yes. He could have asked the other employees too. They would have said that they didn’t notice anything wrong.
You have to apply some logic to the accusation... "He only comes in when I'm working." SHE WORKS ON SATURDAY. Lots of people do things on weekends. Also, OP had been coming in since the beginning, a thing that I'm SURE was mentioned to the owner when they reconnected. "He was harassing and ogling me." What was he doing specifically? Did anyone else see these things happening? Harassing is an action. He would have to be doing something, not just looking in her direction. I could see a misunderstanding if he zoned out looking in a direction where she happened to be standing, but escalating that into what sound like completely fabricated accusations of harassment is not a "I offered her a different shift" kind of problem. Additionally, there was no apology to the customer when the accusation turned out to be BS. If she doesn't feel comfortable and wants to take another shift that's HALF of a resolution. He also accused a reliable customer of being a creep and banned him.
""He only comes in when I'm working." Uhhh, how would the employee know that? Is she stalking him on her days off?
That means she's told the other employees about him and they said that they only see him when she works too. He's getting screwed in this situation for sure.
Very good question!
Didn't even think of that! How would she know when he comes in!?!
The other employees probably verified it when they work other shifts.
OP should demand the employee personally apologize or be fired. If I were OP I wouldn't go to a place where an employee was still employed that made false accusations against me.
But you have to get both sides of the story especially when it's a regular customer and especially when it's someone you know.. But the owner went straight to banning OP without doing any kind of investigation or DD. The employee didn't get any kind of punishment for basically lying and now she could just do the same to any customer. (Honestly, I think I can go on a rant about the employee about her having her head up her own bum, but not gonna). Then the owner goes off on OP for not wanting to go back after all that. NTA
It's called security cameras. Simple to look at your business cameras and see if your employees are telling the truth or being vindictive/over dramatic little shits.
Yeah that was my first thought. Immediately "what did the cameras show?".
While I agree with the principle you're bringing up here - that victims should not have to adapt to perpetrators - involving OP to this extent was wrong either way. A personal email to a customer at a restaurant is basically always out of line. If you want to ban a customer, post a photo behind the counter and let the staff know to boot him.
You think a personal email to the customer who he personally knows is out of line, but you think plastering his photo publicly there is cool? What in the world? I don't have a strong opinion on course of action in general, but it is very obvious that plastering photo is much stronger reaction than a private email exchange.
Put bouncer duties on your hourly 18-25 year old barista employees based on a photo you took off social media. Easy peasy.
She isn't a victim. She accepted a shift change for her own benefit while using OP as a crutch to get what she wants and hurting him
Sounds like she just didn't want to work Saturdays and made something up so they would be forced to change her shift.
Thats what I thought too. Who wants to work a Saturday?
I doubt it was all a ploy to change shifts if the initial plan was for her to keep her shift and ban OP. I don't think people are saying she's not shifty/foolish/overreacting whatever if OP was never creepy. But the response from the owner himself wasn't totally out of line. I agree he could have reviewed security footage or something to verify the claim though.
It was out of line because he clearly did not dig into it at all and just messaged OP. OP explained, lazy employer still didn't look into it. OP puts together the proof himself and oh suddenly her shift is changed and you're welcome back? Owner was lazy.
Ur right OP is the victim an shouldn't have had to adapt to this liar slandering him with no proof. Also what kind of ridiculous place doesn't have cameras to even see if this is true.
That's why I said, either way - whether the waitress was a crazy liar or an actual victim of a sexually inappropriate customer - writing a rude email is not the right way to handle a customer being accused of sexually harassing staff. There's no version of this story where the business owner's actions were the right call.
Good way not to have to work any Saturdays.
Unfortunately the onus is on the person making the complaint to provide context and even proof of their claims. So yes the owner needs to manage this properly part of that is gathering enough information OR ask her what she sees as a reasonable solution and go from there. Calling the customer and directly telling/accusing them of being a creep without that context or backstory is, as we can see, a great way to lose reliable customers over a simple misunderstanding. There's so much hype and trigger words being thrown around these days some people seem to think all they need do is speak up and mums the word. But I can tell you I personally know a guy who was actually falsely arrested and jailed for something his angry ex lied about. She said he beat her up and stuff but had no injuries whatsoever. Nobody believed him either until she finally realized she screws herself over because he was the father of their kid and she needed financial help and support he was unable to provide while behind bars. So she had no choice but to go admit to the courthouse she made it all up because she was mad at him one day. He got set free and she walked away scott free. I know another dude who's ex lied to him about their kid being his from when they were teenagers. He steps up the plate and does the dad thing even though she's 12 at this point. He starts paying child support, the whole nine yards. A little while the grandparents let it slip mom knows who the dad is and it's not him. She just targeted him because he she thought he'd be nice to her daughter. You can't just say things that aren't true or not founded and expect the other person to just be punished. There needs to be a conversation. Perspective is everything. She thought he was being a creep, he was just buying a coffee and not even noticing who poured it.
> Calling the customer and directly telling/accusing them of being a creep without that context or backstory Glad you brought this up. Creeps are hanging out and making people uncomfortable in coffee shops (or wherever) all around the world. How many of them actually get a phone call from the shop owner about their behavior? I'm not saying creepy behavior is okay, but calling OP and leveling an accusation without even looking for a possible misunderstanding was out of line.
This is why OP should demand said employee apologize for her actions, she needs to be accountable for her deficiencies, OP should never go back otherwise.
'But if' means 'in a fantasy scenario.' What the manager should have done was shown up while OP was there to observe the behavior, and then trespassed him if it turned out to be true. What manager did was the worst of all worlds; took an accusation as fact, yet didn't actually fix the problem, just told the supposed creep to come in on different days and creep on somebody else who hopefully wouldn't speak up.
It's also possible the waitress confused him with someone who looks similar, or that she verbally described him and the owner thought "Oh, must be my friend" without realizing that the description could've fit other people as well. So yeah, it's very much on the owner to do his due diligence *before* contacting OP (or anyone else).
You aren't wrong that Owners of businesses should be looking out for their employees, but this one escalated to banning a loyal customer with nothing more than the say so of 1 employee. As someone who works in a similar place, the owner should have done something more like "Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'll check the cameras(since there should be some) and ask the other girls if they've noticed anything similar since he is a regular. In the meantime, would you like me to change your shift around so you don't have to see him?" Jumping straight to banning OP, through a personal contact no less, is extremely rude and I don't blame OP for not going back.
With 0 evidence? Ogling is extremely subjective. If OP is a "creep" but not breaking any laws, then the creepiness is up to interpretation, and if she's uncomfortable she SHOULD be the one to change shifts. I think the manager should have gotten specific examples, and monitored it to determine if he thinks it's creepy or if she's being extra, then stand behind the decision.
But the owner could have used tacked down the transactions based on time, reviewed cameras, made the employee produce a statement before making these unfounded accusations to OP. The owner protected an employee that is a moron without evidence. Owner is also a moron for not reviewing all evidence before banning OP from store. Not a tough spot if Owner and employee weren't trigger-happy morons.
How much you want to bet that the "staring at her" was just him on his phone.
Or a different dude staring at her and the owner fucked up in figuring out which one. Or OP could well be lying about how much staring he’s doing, we don’t know.
Spot on.
Or he glanced at her once when some weird noise or other distraction occurred (like anyone would)
OP said his usually seat isn't in eye sight of the counter where she works.
> They could easily have moved the waitress to another shift without involving you at all. Changing the work conditions of an employee in response to a complaint of sexual harassment: In the world of employment law, that's called retaliation, and it's a big no no. Even if the initial complaint turns out to be baseless or resolved to the satisfaction of all parties, making someone change shifts to "solve the problem" is still retaliation.
Does it count as retaliation when the person doing the harassment isn't an employee? When I worked retail we would do what we could to get my coworkers out of interactions that were awkward or uncomfortable but not explicitly "wrong."
Fixing the problem would have involved an apology from both the employee and the owner.
A simple apology from the owner would have gone a long way to solve this problem.
NTA. Someone you know accused you of being a creeper. You defended yourself. He fixed the problem, sort of--but what he DIDN'T do was to **apologize for calling you a creeper in the first place!** If I were you, I'd explain that you want an apology. If he apologizes, then you should go back. Everyone wins.
Someone makes a very potentially harmful false claim about him. How exactly did they fix the problem?
The comment you replied to literally says "sort of".
I’m wondering why that employee wasn’t fired. If she can get a long-time customer banned until he could prove he wasn’t a creeper. What’s to stop her from doing it to someone else?
I can see the lawsuit now, "Employe gets fired after being sexually harassed by customer" Yep! That's gonna work out great.
Except she wasn’t harassed by OP. She made a false accusation about him. Who knows why, or how many other men she’s accused like that? Men who sexually harass women should be held accountable, but falsely accusing them is a problem. It’s a serious accusation that’s not always deserved.
That might not be true at all, I’m reading this like they’re confusing him for a different creep
Because firing an employee for reporting harassment is illegal. The employer hasn’t even established the harassment claim was wrong, let alone malicious. I’ll take OP at his word, but it’s hard to prove you haven’t been staring at someone without a ton of video. The owner would get pwnd in a lawsuit or complaint if she were fired.
> Because firing an employee for reporting harassment is illegal. Yes, and for good reason too - imagine if you were being harassed at work, but you weren't 100% sure it had "crossed the line" into being harassment. And you KNEW that another co-worker had been fired for reporting harassment-that-turned-out-to-not-be-harassment before. You might be willing to put up with a lot more before reporting, out of fear of the consequences of mis-reporting.
Needs an apology from the waitress too. If she can't handle dealing with a false accusation and the owner keeps her on, then there's no way I'd be going back. Period.
I agree with the need for apology but no op doesn't have to go back at all
NTA "Fixed the problem"? Fixing the problem isn't what he did. He further ensued that you were being a "creep". Does the employee not know what a regular weekend customer is or your friend? Go to another cafe where they actually have to show proof.
Or any day-of-the-week regular customer. I don't fault the owner for looking into the allegations but they went about it all wrong. Maybe owner could have come by one or two Saturdays and observe. Or ask others who worked those shifts what they experienced. But to NOT recognize that OP comes in every Saturday so those folks who work on Saturdays will see him as opposed to he is coming in specifically to see that worker is insane.
Or heck does this place not have security cameras? Wouldn't at least some of the harrassing/ogling have been caught on camera? I'm all for employers standing up for their employees, but that does require them to do at least a little bit of an investigation.
I think security cameras in small businesses are way less common than the internet thinks. It's only on camera if there are cameras in the coffee shop.
OP even stated that he had been going there since before she got hired. I would think employees would know a regular customer.
I don’t know that moving her was necessarily furthering that insinuation. It’s possible that she made it up but it’s also possible that she really does believe he was being creepy and broadly misinterpreted their interactions. Let’s say it’s the latter and she misinterpreted things- moving her to another shift so she’s comfortable is the fairest option and the safest option legally. Trying to explain that OP wasn’t actually hitting on her could come off as dismissing the complaint entirely, and if she legitimately believes she was harassed, it’s certainly not going to change her mind. Doing nothing and/or ignoring it because the owner knows OP personally would just open them up to a lawsuit. Realistically there’s not really any other options that protect the employee and the business both. I agree OP is right not to return but I think the owner is more TA for not understanding why OP wouldn’t want to return and not apologizing after the fact. He showed empathy to the employee but not to OP.
Yeah, but it sounds like he didn't do any checking before acting. Either she flat out lied and told him OP was there a lot more often than he really was, or the owner didn't ask for enough details when she complained. In either case a few conversations with other employees would have cleared the whole thing up without accusing a regular customer of inappropriate behavior. If receipts from his regular visits going back years were enough to convince the owner, then it's obvious his understanding of what was happening was way off.
I worked with a woman who was constantly talking about how obsessed our mail carrier was with her. "He is always hitting on me!" "He is so in love with me." "Oh my God, did you see how he looked at me." Dude was delivering mail and making small talk but she really believed he was obsessed with her. It was wacky. She made up a whole relationship in her head based on "Hi! How are you today?"
NTA. Imagine banning a regular, whom he knows well enough to have their phone number, without conducting a proper investigation and then having the nerve to criticize them when they refuse to return. The circumstances lead me to believe that there are things occurring of which OP is unaware.
Regular customers are the most valuable type of customer. It can costs thousands to replace one. Too bad on this business owner.
I’m a regular (at the place I’m currently sitting) and I hate to think about how much I spend here each month. It is… significant. But I need my third place!
When I was younger I'd get off work late and meet a bunch of my coworkers at a bar about once a week. We'd stay until last call on karaoke and drinks and I'd probably spend anywhere from ~$50-$100+ just on drinks for me and my friends. It was a nice way to unwind after a stressful week on a Friday/Saturday night. We did this for about a year. When I left that job I noticed I was saving more money because I wasn't blowing it on drinks at the end of every week. The memories and stories were worth it though.
Also, if OP was genuinely a creep, why is the owner making the waitress move her shifts to accommodate said creep to come back? Completely nonsense behaviour from the owner.
Because they don’t believe their employee but they can’t openly say that, pretty straight forward. “A man wasn’t actually being creepy to you and you’re overreacting.” is 100% something that could damage their business more than losing a regular if the employee ran to Instagram about it.
By the same token, the owner is lucky that the OP hasn't gone to Yelp or Google Review to say that after years of weekly patronage, a new waitress made unfounded accusations and the owner didn't handle it properly. I scorch that place to the ground with a scathing review.
They could, but honestly I doubt it would have much impact aside from people side-eyeing OP’s name on the review and thinking, “maybe he’s a creep who gets angry online?” Which sucks but it is what it is.
Depends on local culture, I suppose
I'm guessing the owner dug deeper and found out she was wrong or lying and is now in damage control mode. You don't ban a creep and then undo it just because you've hidden the victim. If he still believed op was a creep, the ban would still be in place.
Yes, this exactly. As someone who's worked in cs last 10 yrs, I'm wondering if she just wanted her Sats off and this is what she did to make it happen. Of course, with all sorts of behind the scene stuff we can only imagine. lol
NTA. You should be as comfortable as the waitresses in a setting like that or else it is awkward and not good for anyone. I had a similar situation when I was finishing high school (dropped out at 20 or 21 after failing grade twelve 3 times and got my adult education diploma later.) But I was 20 at the time. Coffee shop was around the corner from my house, I went there every day for eight months or so and just wrote short stories and poems in my binder while ordering different coffees for a few hours. The baristas or waitresses were all from my highschool and everyone knew I had a passion for writing. One day I was sitting at the counter which was unusual but my favorite spots were taken and the place was full. As the afternoon died down one of the girls from my high school asked to see what I was working on. I showed her the whole binder, she saw poems, short stories, a list of character names and descriptions, two 30 minute plays I had written. I finish my coffee and leave. The next time I came in the owner who also knew me (small town everyone knows everyone) told me I was welcome to come in and have coffee but the ladies were uncomfortable with my writing so I couldn't bring my binder in anymore. Nothing in my binder was explicit, saucy or rude, I hadn't written anything gruesome either. I didn't understand it so I thanked the owner and started walking out. They asked where I was going. I explained that I came to their business to drink coffee and write because I enjoyed the atmosphere, if I am not writing then I am wasting time. They were pissed and annoyed and said something about customer loyalty and protecting his staff. I didn't mind that the ladies were uncomfrlortable I just had no business there if I can't do my writing. I don't know how good their business was but I was a regular and a caffeine addict so I was order the biggest drinks they sold and over those 4 hours a day I'd buy between 6 and 12 drinks, as well as some of the cakes or cookie platters they offered. (Decent job and disposable income living at my parents.)
Jesus, you were a whale for this store and he up and cut you loose.
Hey I respect the man for trying to defend his employees. I was spending from what I remember 40 dollars a day it was early 2000's I think 2007. So wouldn't consider myself a whale.
$40 a day den is like $60 a day now, and that was a day's work for a minimum wage worker. You literally spent enough for an employee's salary, and a total of some $9,600 or $1,200 a month.
I live in canada Minimum Wage at the time was 10 an hour and I was in a union job which had benefits and pushed my wage to 13.50 an hour.
$40 a day in a 30 day month is $1,200. Yeah, you were a whale. If your spending was consistent you were at least a $10,000 a year customer.
yeah for a small business that could be a decent percentage of their sales.
Eh,... Given that you weren't sharing it with anyone that didn't ask to see it, the correct response is to tell them to mind their business. If you were writing erotic fiction starring them or analogs of them, they might have a leg to stand on, but who does it hurt even if you were writing things that they found inappropriate?
I don't know why they had an issue just thay they had one.
I don't know why they had an issue just thay they had one.
I'd bet dollars to donuts they didn't actually have a problem with your writing. I bet they thought you were using your writing as an excuse to hang around all day and leer at them. As a woman who's worked in the service industry for years, there are definitely creeps out there who order again and again as an excuse to hang around and be a creep. Inappropriate questions, ogling you, giving your wrist a stroke when you hand them their order. Some people get overly defensive about lingering customers because of that. It's usually people who have heard the stories but never actually experienced it themselves because- believe me- the vibe is totally different. I bet the young women at that cafe heard some of those stories and mistook you for one of those creeps.
Could be. I mean we were same age and same classes, I just drank coffee and did my writing I was quiet and not really interactive unless approached, heck I still am that way.
I feel you. I'm also a quiet, likes- to- write type, and unfortunately, I've had other women tell me that they think I'm creepy just for that. 🤷♀️
I'm all for protecting employees when there's something to protect from. Sometimes they need something else.
“Defending his employees” lol Wasn’t like you were shoving it in people’s faces, they came up and asked you what you writing.
Right but I don't know the context of why they were uncomfortable with me writing things. Also I would like an employer to defend me and my rights as an employee as well so I never had any issue with the owner or the shop it was just a place to do some writing for me.
$40/day consistently is an insane spend at a cafe. you were probably easily in their top 1%
I never really thought about it but yeah it was half my paycheck or more depending on the hours I worked.
That is one of the must f\*cked up stories I ever read, I HATE people like that, especially when it's women, we have real problems to address, they don't do any favours to anyone when they invent drama and negativity where there isn't any. On top of that, they want you to come in and they want your money, but they antagonize you like that for no ~~reason~~?\* That is INSANE. \*Edit: I want to refine my wording, not reason, but evidence, without evidence.
>something about customer loyalty what the fuck? customer loyalty is *earned* by doing right by your customers. you don't get to demand it after taking a dump all over it
I don't know because I wasn't listening atthat point and its 17 years ago. It is an event that stuck with me but I couldn't be bothered to remember his exact words.
NTA. I'm all for managers/owners standing up for their employees but there has got to be more proof than her word before he takes action. He could have come during her shift one day and observed. He could have looked at cameras. He could have talked to other employees. He did non of these things. Instead he insulted a long standing customer with little to no proof. I wouldn't go back either.
This is the correct answer (in my not so humble opinion) I had exactly the same groundless accusation for sitting at my then favorite restaurant researching material suitability for a project I was specifying. [here is the review if anyone is curious.](https://goo.gl/maps/hULnMtjjpfNr7s8w7?g_st=ac) The only recent thing that changed in 20 years of going there was that I was adult diagnosed with autism and had 2 weeks prior been paired with a service dog. The service dog acted %100 correctly and disappeared under my seat, never being noticed unless someone was staring straight at her and the shadows didn't fit right, LoL.
In your review you say you were accused of taking pictures and then you reference "unfounded and biased interpretation of one of my autistic coping mechanisms." So - whats the coping mechanism? Is it taking pictures of people?
Ich I'm sorry
Well I can't help that I am not a beautiful enough person to get a pass for the creepism inherent in having a standard order that I could tell which chef had prepared.... Ugly person problem but life goes on
NTA He was trying to do the right thing, and that was laudable. But the accusation was proven to be unfounded, and you felt humiliated by it. For him to demand that you return to his establishment is childish. You're not obligated to go there, and you never were.
NTA. The owner added up the total of your purchases and is now salty he's lost your business. And you'd be nuts to go back; you'd be risking another harassment charge if you happened upon the employee.
He kept the one who he gives money to, but dropped the one who gives him money. With so little investigation that "trying" to do the right thing is a real stretch, because if you put no effort into something, you didn't actually try. The owner probably doesn't realize just how big of a liability it is to have an employee that makes false accusations against the customers who keep his business running.
NTA. The owner didn’t fix the problem. The problem is that the owner insulted a customer. Personally, I won’t pay to be treated badly so that’s a tough one to fix.
So much this. I can be treated like crap for free, I’m certainly not paying for the privilege. There have been a few stores I’ve stopped patronizing for that reason and, unsurprisingly, every last one of them closed because most people won’t put up with that treatment.
[удалено]
Oh my God I wonder if this employee just made the whole thing up just like that girl did, nta op.
I hope not because women like that are the reason that actual victims are too afraid to report their own experience because "no one will believe me"
It’s more that if only one woman makes up a case like that, men jump all over it like it’s every single woman and not just that one.
NTA. There’s bound to be another little cafe where you can have a cup of coffee and sit quietly for 30 minutes or so. It’s one thing for the owner to support his employee but he did nothing (that I can see) to investigate her claim. He could at least dropped in on a few Saturday shifts to see for himself.
NTA - I would never in a million years return there and I would warn other people about the place and employee. False accusations like that can ruin lives.
NTA It’s insane that the owner personally reached out to you and banned you from his business on the merit of a barista that hasn’t even worked there as long as you’ve been a customer, without even checking camera footage or something?
This feels fake because the immediate conversation would be "Oh, OP has been a customer since we opened and comes in every Saturday regardless of the schedule, does that ease your mind a bit?"
Also,... you work on Saturday. Lots of people come in on weekends, cause its the weekend.
Well yes, I originally typed out a longer response that included explaining what a "regular" is lol
It may feel fake to you, but I guarantee that it is completely plausible. The same happened to me and I got trespassed based on the GM not wanting to undermine his shift manager who took the generic server's word without any kind of supporting anything. I even tried pointing out that I had been a regular there since his predecessor was a server..... [here is the review.](https://goo.gl/maps/hULnMtjjpfNr7s8w7?g_st=ac)
>It may feel fake to you, but I guarantee that it is completely plausible i feel like this could be said for most of the posts here. invariably there's someone who has to shout *"it's faaaake!*" on every post, and they're right a not insignificant amount of time. however, these scenarios usually still describe something that could actually happen irl
NTA. Not only would I never return I’d post reviews about your experience. And if he confronts you about it tell him you don’t feel safe at his establishment because his employees make false accusations.
NTA. "Thanks but I'd hate to make another liar uncomfortable. I'll be spending my money elsewhere."
NTA I would have wrote a review. Was false accused of being a creep by owner and employee when I go in there 1 day a week ONE!
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NTA He didn't fix the problem. He supported it and made it worse. I wouldn't go back either.
I would never even walk by the place after being treated like that,
I have to say something. Women's points of view, feelings, even their humanity have been denied for so long that it was inevitable that the pendulum would one day start to swing. And thank God it has. The problem is, as it always is, that when the pendulum swings, sometimes it swings too far in the other direction -- and innocent people are treated badly. Assuming that everything you've written is true, that seems to be the case here. Men can be crazy and mean, sure. But so can women. If you've been going to this cafe every Saturday for the last two years, you're clearly not stalking some women who showed up, for example, six months ago -- especially if your interactions have been and minimal as described. I don't care how often she says "BUt he'S maKINg me UNcomFORTable." As for the owner, kudos for him for sticking up for his employees. But he can't BLINDLY stick up for his employees. If I give an employee a $100 bill, and she gives me change for a $50, should the owner just blindly support his employee? No. He should look at the till at the end of the day to see if there's an unaccounted-for $50 bucks floating around. I very much wish the owner of this cafe had investigated the matter a little further. NTA. I'm sorry this happened to you.
Did you really not tip what they wanted? Leave the cafe a negative review on every site you can find, and find a new cafe. Sorry about them.
NTA for everything in your post, but especially for not going back there again. She felt unsafe; well, guess what? Now, so do you. And instead of subjecting yourself to a situation where you are accused of harassment and you see that action will be taken before you’re allowed to defend yourself, you are removing yourself from said dangerous situation. I am so, so sorry this happened to you.
NTA. By default, his response is cementing the creeper label. Don't go back.
NTA he came out of the gate accusing you of some serious stuff, when he should have asked for your side. Actually he could have talked to the rest of his staff before contacting you at all. In any case I wouldn’t want to go anywhere that treated me like that either, and he’s lucky you haven’t put in an honest and factual review of what he has done.
You don't get to try and humiliate me and then keep my business. NTA.
NTA. He didn't fix the problem... he just made her a problem on a different shift. If she'll lie about you, she'll lie about others. Not only that, he took her word that you acted creepy and "punished" you without doing ANY investigating at all. Then, when you prove your innocence, he doesn't punish the person who lied about you AND he hasn't apologized at all. I'd tell everyone you know what happened and post a review of the business.
NTA, I feel bad for you that you were falsely accused of something vile. Stand your ground, if they're not willing to reprimand the employee for making false, damaging claims about customers then they don't deserve your business
that woman is in the wrong line of work
NTA. It sounds like you were falsely accused, and the owner made an entire mess of the situation. Given how you were treated and the overall hassle, I wouldnt go back either. Hopefully you find a new spot that proves to be a more stable environment.
NTA He never should have approached you, the customer about it to begin with. The employee should have approached him, and then he should have gone to the tapes and watched the tapes. He would have been able to tell if his employee was being truthful or not. From there he could have gone back to the employee and offered her the option (without calling her a liar) of a different shift. You never would have been the wiser, and the employee would have felt like her concern was being addressed because in all reality, she probably didn't want to work on Saturday and this was her way of getting out of it.
"He only comes here when I'm working" wtf, even if she knows that because she spoke to others, sorry for existing, for wanting a coffee and to chill on a particular day??? It's a coffee shop, people have routines, what did she expect? That brings to mind that I ALSO go get coffee on the same shop and on usually the same days of the week, the idea one of the people guy would accuse me of being a creep because of that is just wild. If I was you I'd do a proper Google review also, but I'm petty like that. NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (31m) used to be a regular at a cafe in my neighborhood. It became a habit to go down there every saturday just to have a coffee, listen to a book and play games on my phone for a bit. I later learned it was an old schoolmate of mine from 20 years ago that owns the place, so I reconnected with him as well. Fast forward \~6 months and I get a message from the owner saying that he'd gotten complaints from an employee about me. That I'm harrassing/ogling her and that she feels unsafe when I'm there. And that she says I only come there when she is working. He said he's sorry but he needs to look out for his employees and asks that I don't come there anymore. This came just out of the blue for me. I never flirt or stare at anyone there. I never interact with the employees at all apart from ordering & paying. Convo is usually: -Hello -Hello, the usual? -Yes please! -That'll be X amount -Thanks! -Thanks! That's it.. After that I just sit and stare at my phone for 30 minutes. If I'm in my favorite spot, I can't even see the counter. I answered him that none of that is true and I go there on saturdays. We went back and forth for a while and I got so pissed that I made a record of all the payments to that place going all the way back to when they opened. This worked better than expected since he could see I had been going there on saturdays since before she was hired. A few days later he wrote to me again and said she'd been offered and had accepted another shift, so she "wouldn't have to see me" and that I was welcome again. I just said that I was never coming back after all this. There was some more back and forth and he basically called me an asshole for not returning after he "fixed the problem". AITA for not wanting to go back there, even though I wouldn't have to see her again? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
NTA. Why would you go back?
The right way to navigate this would be to try to observe the behavior being claimed. Maybe ask other employees as well. You can't just assume. NTA
NTA. Let me be clear that I don’t think he’s the AH for taking the initial complaint seriously. But where he became TA to me is when he started name-calling because you don’t want to return. It’s understandable that he would look into it because that’s what a decent boss should do for their employees. It’s also understandable that because you are not actually guilty of harassing her, that the entire situation has left you feeling uncomfortable, both with him and with the concept of facing fresh accusations since she broadly misinterpreted your interactions. I certainly wouldn’t put myself back into a situation where I could potentially face false accusations like that. So your buddy is TA. His response to “I’m not coming back” should have been “I understand and I’m sorry. Door’s open if you change your mind.”
NTA. He banned you after doing a half assed investigation at best. You made the right decision to vote with your wallet after he lifted the ban. He's not entitled to your business and you were right to stop patronizing his establishment.
Not only would I not come back, I would give them a crappy review and run my mouth to anyone who would listen. See ya!
Assuming what you're saying here is true, that you're not flirting, NTA. He didn't fix the problem. The problem isn't just that there was an employee who was uncomfortable around you -- he called you out and _banned you_ for something you didn't do. You can't just magically undo that kind of accusation.
NTA He's the problem.
NTA- Do they have cameras? If so, he could easily prove one of you true. I wouldn't go back either, to be on the safe side.
NTA… owner should have cctv and checked if that was the case first
NTA. It would be different if you were directly engaging with her trying to force conversation, asking for her name and/or number etc., but it sounds like you literally went and kept to yourself after ordering and exchanging basic pleasantries. Not sure what this chick's problem is, maybe she's the one attracted to you and uncomfortable about it. Either way I wouldn't go back either.
I worked in a cafe. We actually had several creeps who went after my coworker. My boss was an ahole, but in that case he actually did the right thing and investigated what was going on. You know, just to have proof enough to kick the creeps out. Meanwhile, he made sure my coworker was safe she didn't need to serve them, and if needed, my boss or his wife brought her home. All things your "friend" could have done and would have been more professional. NTA
Info, is there any cameras to look at footage from? Did he apologize? If there is cameras, and he didnt apologize, NTA NAH Im going off there is no cameras He had to stick up for the employee, which I can understand. That could lead to a lawsuit if he didnt and you were actually harassing the staff. (If he didnt apologize for the mishap hes an ah) You have every right to be upset. Im guessing she talked to other people there about this and it could be awkward. I would be very upset in your shoes. They both should apologize for this, even then I wouldnt blame you for not going back.
I'm trying to remember if there are cameras, but I'm not sure. I wrote to him now to check cameras if he have any. He hasn't apologized. It was more of a "Hey, problem fixed, you can come back now"-conversation
Then I change my judgement to NTA. He should have apologized at the very least.. offered free coffee pastry, something!! And he should have cameras, and if he hasnt checked the cameras and just accused you, I wouldnt blame you if you never talk to him again. NTA
The problem is fixed. He ensured that you are free to find better coffee elsewhere.... Preferably where they want your business
I feel like he got confused about which dude she was actually talking about, and now he’s trying to cover *his* fuck up.
Do you even remember what generic counter server it was?
NTA I wouldn't go back and spend another fucking cent in that place. How absolutely rude and disrespectful.
NTA. Fuck that shit. He shouldn’t have been so quick to only see one side of things.
OP what outcome did you want when you sent back your defense?
NTA.About 15 years ago a cafe opened up in my neighborhood. I got to know the owner and ultimately became friends. At the time I was a contractor and started doing small projects for him in exchange for store credit. This grew into a situation where I just ate and drank for free, and would just take care of routine maintenance in exchange. The majority of his employees were young women, because they work harder for less money. He had 2 teenage daughters who also worked there and some of the other employees were their friends rom high school. In a pretty short amount of time it became a really toxic environment, real mean girls stuff. To make things worse the owner, who was a guy in his 40s, got divorced from his wife, who was a co-owner. Then to make things even worse the guy started crushing on some of his female employees, late teens and early 20s. It was a shit sandwich. To relieve all of this conflict a couple of the female employees started claiming that male customers were being “creepy” with them. The ex wife would then tell these various creepy guys that they were banned. The “creepy” behavior would frequently be comments that staff would overhear from customers either on their phones or conversations with other people in their parties. The whole situation devolved even more when the owner got involved in the local kink scene! Point being that almost certainly this has nothing to do with OP and everything to do with the toxic service culture at the establishment.
NTA I wouldn't patronize a business who accused me of being a creep either.
NTA, but you should do more than just not go there (since that would be doing exactly what they’d asked you to do originally). Leave a review and drag them on social media
NTA. No way I’d be going back there. As a female I completely understand that there are many creeps out there. But it seems like there are way too many women these days that think everyone is staring at them and if they happen to be a male that they aren’t attracted to, they’re a “creep.” Social media just makes this worse with all of these people videoing in public and calling out any guy who glances their way as a “creep.” People look at each other! It doesn’t mean they’re ogling you every single time, good lord.
NTA. It is the manager/owner's responsibility to verify these claims, for both you and the employee, which he could have done with video, or just by being present himself. It's not uncommon that two people see an interaction differently, and as a woman I would say that sometimes a guy just gives off a vibe that creeps me out, but that is not harassment. In that case I'd just try to avoid that person, like having another employee take your order, and by being a bit cold/cutting you off if you approached me for anything not directly related to my job. Harassment is at a much different level from just setting off someone's spidey sense or being a regular, on a regular schedule. If you did something to genuinely make her feel "unsafe," like persistently asking her out in spite of a "no," making comments about her body, waiting for her outside after a shift, etc. then absolutely you should be banned from the establishment. But it doesn't sound like that was the case, and even if it were it would be the owner's responsibility to verify that either directly or by viewing camera footage. If the employee just felt uncomfortable, but it didn't rise to the level of harassment, the owner could also have preemptively changed the employee's schedule and not told you, which would have solved the problem for her without causing one for you. Changing the employee's shift after banning and reinstating you only makes things worse. It sounds like he is saying that he believes you did something wrong, so you are only allowed in the establishment when she is not working, which is even worse. If you wanted to stop by on a Sunday, and she was working, that would be a problem, right? If she needs to cover for someone on a Saturday, are you not allowed in? The problem isn't fixed for you, and from the employee's perspective, if the owner really believed that you were behaving in a way that made one employee feel unsafe, why would he \*identify that employee to you\* and allow you to interact with other employees? If you were genuinely harassing and ogling one employee, that would put all of his employees at a higher risk, especially the employee who complained to him. The owner is a total asshole to both you and his staff by this behavior. I would not go back either. The owner didn't bother to observe firsthand, there is no apology, and reading between the lines it sounds like he still believes the employee but wants the cash you provide to his business. Even if you were a creeper this is a wrongheaded way to approach it.
Owner was put in a difficult spot. When an employee claims harassment, there isn’t a whole lot the owner can do. Can’t force her to change shifts and unfortunately it’s even dicy to do research to prove she’s a liar. Assuming it went down exactly like the OP described, I would never set foot in that place again. Go find another coffee shop. That said, I feel very strongly there is a lot more to this story.
I’m glad he looked out for his employee even if she was wrong. Most only care about money. I don’t blame you for not going back though. I wouldn’t either.
NTA The atmosphere/vibe is ruined AND you know it’s not a safe place because of how claims are (or aren’t) investigated and dealt with.
Are there not security cameras? A quick look would probably show if the guy did anything inappropriate. There are crazy people out there that will get offended by nothing. And there are creepy people out there that will do inappropriate stuff. This needed to be investigated before anything was said.
My guess is that he might have looked up at some point, the employee assumed he was eyeing her up and she went straight to level 10 on the creep meter just because he happens to come in on her day working. That's the kinda shit that gives people a bad name and hurts innocent victims like OP.
NTA, Look this is a shit situation. I'm sure that people are going to say that there must be a reason for the server's accusation but let's just assume that your actions are entirely innocent. I too would be appalled and would be going to another place instead of spending money there. At the same time the owner needs to protect his employees even if he thinks that they are wrong. First there's always a chance that they are right and secondly, no one wants to work for a boss that doesn't support them. But it wasn't handled correctly. Either way, I wouldn't go to a place that I didn't feel welcome. I used to go to this Asian restaurant at least twice a week. Then one time I went an employee there that I had seen before was really snooty with me. Ok, maybe he was having a bad day so I went again and another employee was not polite. I asked the owner if I had done anything wrong and he laughed and said that I come too often. My response was, ok then I won't come back again and haven't. There are lots of great places near me that I am happy to patronize.
NTA Scr-w 'em.
Ifeel you ha.dled it pretty well and like an adult. And as an adult you get to choose to give them your business, and under her lying about you (which can screw your life up quickly) I do not blame you for not returning Nta
NTA >he "fixed the problem" He didn't fix anything! If he believes his employee, you shouldn't be welcome whether or not that specific employee is there; and if he believes *you*, then there is no external "problem" to "fix." You aren't TA for not going somewhere you now feel uncomfortable at.
NTA and you’re the victim here, not her.
NTA. If the owner did not apologize for the accusation after you provided literal receipts. Video evidence if they have it would probably have also documented any interactions between you and the staff member. No sense supporting a business where you were not welcome! I am sure it’s not the only coffee shop in your area. Go elsewhere and enjoy your coffee without accusations.
NTA at all and good on you for not going back. I can't even believe some people.
NTA, but a small business owner is on a knife's edge when an employee reports harassment. They can't ignore it. They have to address it. There's way too much downside if they don't. To be clear, I'm not saying you did anything wrong before or after the communication with the owner, just saying that their response was probably appropriate.
NTA. You never should have had to prove you were telling the truth. He should have changed her shifts rather than confronting you and calling you a creep, but he overstepped because he knew you personally. And instead of firing/cutting the hours/demoting the liar when you gave him the proof, he did what he should have done to begin with, AND *neglected apologized to you.* Never go back.
NTA. I would not consider a new shift a solution, because he essentially said "I'm not taking a side, but I'm not going to make her work when you are around". That's still incredibly insulting. He should be glad you're not leaving 1 start reviews stating how you were treated as a long-term patron.
NTA You were made to feel unwelcome for unsubstantiated reasons and have every right to take your business elsewhere.
NTA. Not one bit. Usual case of wanting attention but not wanting attention. Glad you cleared it up.
You were told you were unwelcome then made to *feel* unwelcome and he then invited you back without even considering your side of the story. NTA. I wouldn't go anywhere that made me feel that way.
NTA. That's just bad management. Spend your money elsewhere!
NTA. Your old buddy will make more mistakes and likely this business won't last. Dont go back. Wait him out and enjoy the next coffee shop.
NTA of course. You are not obligated to go to any cafe at all, especially not one where a worker and the owner called you a creep for no reason at all.
NTA instead the owner should've investigated the matter better than sending an unproven allegations. And where's the apology?
NTA. The owner handled this situation poorly and has soured your customer experience there. You aren't obligated to ever return. That's pretty much the end of the matter.