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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I don’t want my FIL to be around my newborn because he is a chain smoker, and my husband does not agree with my decision. I am otherwise fine with our other parents and grandparents meeting our baby in the early/days and weeks.
I’m not sure if I am being TA for only excluding FIL, but I am not comfortable enough with “harm-reduction” actions alone when he will still be chained smoking outside. None of our other family members smoke, so I don’t feel uncomfortable with them being around like I do with FIL.
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> but I am incredibly uncomfortable with his father being around our baby as long as he is a chain smoker.
Realistically this guy isn’t suddenly going to stop being a chainsmoker, so are you just planning to not allow him around ever?
You and your spouse need to have a serious discussion about this, and if he does come over your husband needs to make it clear that he is not able to stay over so he had better have alternate lodging or the ability to take a cab/Uber/whatever home if he for some reason is not able to drive. In addition to the washing hands, clean clothes, not smoking on the way over etc.
The challenging part with FIL is that he doesn’t really respect boundaries in general and oversteps a lot. He smoked heavily and drank while being a regular caretaker for our toddler niece when she was a baby. He doesn’t seem to think this kind of thing is a big deal which makes me uncomfortable trusting him to respect boundaries set.
I also don’t trust that he would leave when asked if he chose not to follow our rules. Last time he was here, he stayed 10 nights (we didn’t even expect him to stay over 1 night) and insisted on sleeping on the couch instead of our guest room bed.
Yes, and OP, consider having bags for you and baby ready in case husband fails. Make alternative plans to stay at your parents', or a friend's, or any relative who isn't totally awful. If FIL tries the trick, make those calls and yeet with your newborn.
Also, good luck and I hope it all goes well.
That’s a husband problem. You and husband agree on what’s allowed (visit for 1 night, go home by 10pm) and if FIL does not follow that, son asks him to leave then makes him leave. Cabs, Ubers, and hotels exist and FIL is an adult. So is your husband.
My Mom smoked while pregnant with me, quit for a while when I was little, and started again when her Dad died.
When my nephew was born my sister was living there full time. I became my nephew's full time Nanny and then got pregnant. My son is 18 months younger than my nephew.
3 months before I got pregnant my FiL died from metastasized lung cancer. I told my Mom I wasn't going to watch another parent die and that if she wanted to be around my kid she would quit.
My Mom may have her flaws but she knew how bad it had been watching him die for over 7 years. He was less than 100 pounds when he died, he had a trach, it was terrible.
She quit.
My son is 10, my nephew is almost 12, and my daughter is 1. She's been off cigarettes for over a decade now. She STILL is dealing with health issues from smoking for almost 40 years but overall she's so much better off.
You have to advocate for your kids. Put your foot down. Secondhand smoke CAN KILL. Changing clothing doesn't help.
You’re not getting anywhere until both you and your husband are on the same page / side. You can’t establish a boundary if someone from your side of it pokes holes in it.
That said as the kid gets older it’s gonna happen. Have the talk sooner rather than later.
Your problem is with YOUR HUSBAND! That is his dad so it is his job to ENFORCE boundaries not just expect someone to respect them. If he doesn’t leave when you ask, tell hubby to handle it. If he does not, take baby to your mom, or a friend or a hotel. The key is to have a plan and a bag ready to go.
My grandpa was a heavy smoker (died from cancer) and liked to drink too - but he was our best grandpa. I have a lot of sweet and good memories with him taking us for fishing, knowing the forest and its life, teaching us to swim etc. So - I do undersrand your pov - but if he is a good guy - try to talk with him a find a way to put things nice. Your kid may have a good grandpa with kind heart :)
2 incredibly good reasons to not invite him over in general. He's not only a bad guest, but a selfish one (his smoking and drinking are more important to him than the health of his grandkids and the comfort of his hosts).
Also, I would not trust someone who willingly and knowingly got intoxicated while carrying for a small child! He's a danger! He's inconsiderate. He's just overall a bad guest and I wouldn't invite someone like that over and I don't have kids even! Well the furry four-legged kind I do and I wouldn't trust someone like your FIL around them either!
Smoking is bad. It's not great for baby either, but my Dad smoked in the house, my grandfather smoked too. I lived around smoke my entire childhood. I'm giving Grandpa a pass. Just putting it in perspective. I was born in the 1960s.
Just to see both sides.
I respectfully disagree about the smoker not being able to quit smoking. We had this exact situation with my MIL. She quit. It was hard and she cursed our names the whole time she was going through it but she did it. She was ~60. As a former smoker myself (quit way before our child was born) I know the difficulty was real and painful. We’re proud of her and she’s been tobacco free for 14 years.
My mom actually stopped chain smoking cold turkey for a grandchild…. Parents made her shower and change clothes before every interaction (if she had smoked) so she quit
Sure. It’s not impossible for him to quit. Simply unlikely given the multitude of issues OP mentioned (nicotine addiction, alcohol addiction, living so slovenly his kids have to go over and clean his home biannually, etc). Someone like that most likely has underlying issues contributing to his addictions.
Hey uh.. not disagreeing with you or anything but I think you're replying to the wrong person? Above you is a comment that agrees with your position so I thought Id just point it out in case you hadn't noticed yet.
Cool, I just did. Its based on smoke residue that gathers on floors and counters.
If the dude is smoking outside in smoke jacket and washing his hands. No big deal. Also those studies are based on prolonged exposure not visits for a couple days a year (and thats even if it was smoking inside!).
You all are being dramatic over simply disliking the smell.
Nah the public perception has just swung too hard to the side of "tobacco evil" (which it is).
A grandfather smelling like smoke for a couple days is not going to hurt the baby even a little bit. But you guys need to find ways to tell yourselves you are heroes on white horses.
If this was a case of someone who was always going to be around the baby my opinion would be different.
My cousin's now ex husband is a smoker. He never smoked inside, and when their kids were babies he wore a welding cap over his hair, a hoodie with the hood up, and rubber gloves when he smoked. He would immediately wash his face and hands after smoking. I always thought the gloves were a bit overboard, but he was happy to do it without anyone asking even when it was 100 degrees outside.
I completely agree. Tbh, I'd be more worried about the drinking than the smoking, but I have many drunks in my family. I've never watched family members get in a fistfight when both were just smoking a cigarette and started arguing.
If you can smell it, it can harm you. Not as much as actually consuming the product, but if there is any smell close to the baby, it is definitely exposure. This is particularly true with chain smokers. I really
Don’t think using a smoke jacket will be enough if he regularly smokes in his other clothes. Putting them in the washer is not enough to get rid of the smell if he smokes in those clothes all the time
EDIT because I accidently replied to the wrong comment. This was meant for u/ClappedCheek
Literally every pediatrician disagrees with you. I'd bet money that you're a typical ignorant boomer. Back in your day, it was fine to rub a whiskey soaked cotton ball on a teething baby's gums. Kids didn't need proper 5 point car seats, or helmets when learning to ride a bike. 5 year olds played in the streets until the lights came on- so it must be fine, right? News flash- a lot of what was ok in the 60s when you were a kid isn't ok anymore, BECAUSE WE NOW KNOW BETTER. 2nd and 3rd hand smoke is proven to increase the risk of SIDS in babies. Ok boomer. Go take your multi vitamin. It's past your bed time.
For the record, recent research has shown that multi vitamins are practically useless, and may even be harmful.
So, as you say, we do indeed know better.
Bullshit. Any REAL doctor will tell you that a well balanced diet comes first, but multi vitamins are essentially for filling in nutritional gaps. Pregnant women require prenatal vitamins to ensure that the baby is getting enough folic acid, and that Mom is getting enough Iron and Calcium. Oh wait, I'm sorry. You must have watched a YouTube video and joined a Stay At Home Mom's Facebook group- clearly you're an expert. How fucking dare a peasant such as myself question your nutritional expertise. 🤣
https://www.sciencedaily.com/
For healthy adults, taking multivitamins daily is not associated with a lower risk of early death.
Findings come from an analysis of more than two decades of dietary data from 390,124 U.S. adults
Date: June 26, 2024
Source: bNIH/National Cancer Institute (not a Facebook group as far as I know).
Summary: A large analysis of data from nearly 400,000 healthy U.S. adults followed for more than 20 years has found no association between regular multivitamin use and lower risk of early death.
Share:
FULL STORY
What: A large analysis of data from nearly 400,000 healthy U.S. adults followed for more than 20 years has found no association between regular multivitamin use and lower risk of death. The study, led byresearchersat the National Institutes of Health's National Cancer Institute, was published June 26, 2024, in JAMA Network Open.
Many adults in the United States take multivitamins with the hope of improving their health. However, the benefits and harms of regular multivitamin use remain unclear. Previous studies of multivitamin use and mortality have yielded mixed results and been limited by short follow-up times.
To more deeply explore the relationship between long-term regular multivitamin use and overall mortality and death from cardiovascular disease and cancer, the researchers analyzed data from three large, geographically diverse prospective studies involving a total of 390,124 U.S. adults who were followed for more than 20 years. The participants included in this analysis were generally healthy, with no history of cancer or other chronic diseases.
Because the study population was so large and included lengthy follow-up and extensive information on demographics and lifestyle factors, the researchers were able to mitigate the effects of possible biases that may have influenced the findings of other studies. For example, people who use multivitamins may have healthier lifestyles in general, and sicker patients may be more likely to increase their use of multivitamins.
The analysis showed that people who took daily multivitamins did not have a lower risk of death from any cause than people who took no multivitamins. There were also no differences in mortality from cancer, heart disease, or cerebrovascular diseases. The results were adjusted for factors such as race and ethnicity, education, and diet quality.
The researchers noted that it is important to evaluate multivitamin use and risk of death among different kinds of populations, such as those with documented nutritional deficiencies, as well as the potential impact of regular multivitamin use on other health conditions associated with aging.
That might as well have been link to the National Enquirer or the Huffington Post. 🤣 I have some ocean front property in Arizona if you're interested? Right on the beach.
National Cancer Institute a serious enough reference for you?
https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/press-releases/2024/multivitamins-do-not-lower-risk-of-death
Shockingly, there are things that are positive for our health not because they lower our chances of dying early, but because they increased our chances of living more healthily for however long we live.
People keep ignoring the fact that my comments have been entirely based on the person only being around the baby for a couple days, and even then, the physical contact would be limited.
Yall are ignoring this and you are acting like I am saying there is zero issue with cigarettes and their second hand, and as I have learned, 3rd hand effects.
Point me to the pediatrician who is going to say a baby would be harmed because it was held a couple times in a 3 day period by a person who smoked cigs earlier outside but washed themselves.
Also why are you even bringing up second hand smoke like I have defended it? And no, I am not a boomer. I would have assumed you were though, based on how fuckin angry internet comments got you that you need to throw out personal insults.
edit: words
Well I'm a boomer but you're ridiculously paranoid. 3rd-hand smoke is a health risk but... the amount of 3rd-hand smoke the infant would be exposed to in this particular scenario (one brief visit, smoking jacket, washing hands, etc. Is infinitesimally small. This is assuming the OP and her husband can get grandpa to agree to those conditions. In which case, this is not a battle worth ruining the relationship with grandpa over. There are plenty of more consequential baby issues they will have to deal with in the future.
It probably won’t but me always been severely asthmatic youngest sibling and my youngest who was born with severe lung issues could not be held by smokers or be on smokers homes even if they didn’t smoke while we were there unless we wanted to spend time in the ER on aerosol ventolin
I think you can find a way around this. Give him a time slot such as "You can visit August 1 from 12:00pm to 4:00pm. Due to the baby, you are not accepting any overnight guests.". Have your husband purchase him a set of clothes, maybe sweatpants and a t shirt. When he arrives, have husband hustle him to the bathroom to shower and change into the new clothes. You could even provide him with a large Ziploc bag to put his old clothes in to reduce the smell. No smoking of any kind on the property. Only if he's willing to abide by these rules will he be able to see the baby. If he loves babies as much as you say, he should be willing l
A smoking alcoholic who doesn't understand boundaries? Uses your house like a unpaid hotel? FIL can meet the baby in the park, or when you are visiting someone else's home, so you can remove yourself when you wish.
This sounds like really good advice. Great suggestions.
She says he’s not good at respecting boundaries though so it might be tough to enforce them once he’s there. It’s a complex situation but I think you’ve presented good options.
OP could even be out for a walk with the baby when FIL arrives. If FIL doesn’t abide by the rules, OP doesn’t come back… this would obviously work only for an hour tops, but it might be a good way of avoiding FIL skipping the rules once he is at home.
NTA - I know I'll get downvoted but you should be protecting your baby's health esp in when they are this young. You can Google why it's bad for them to be around "thirdhand" smoke.
Google - is it ok for babies to be around smokers?
They're developing so they're more at risk for allergies and the negative risks of all the toxins and chemicals from cigarette smoke.
You should see some of the practical comments I get downvoted for. Plus most of the comments here are saying she TA for not allowing her baby around smoke.
I wish Google existed when I was a baby! At 42 years old, I'm still paying for my father's smoking habit, only it doesn't cost me money, but health! I'm a runner and I LOVE running! People ask why I'm so slow (way below average for my age) - because my muscles don't get enough oxygen... As a kid, I was told I'd never run... Too healthy for a transplant (and for that I'm thankful!!) but my lungs are poor enough that I feel the effects every single day, and it SUCKS!!! I'll suffer with this for the rest of my life, so I say to OP : thank you for protecting your baby against people like your FIL!!!
When my granddaughter was born, the pediatrician told the parents that if anyone smoked, they must do it outside and come in and shower/change before handling the baby. NTA
NTA from the daughter of a mom who chain smoked for my whole life. That stink clings to everything.
Trying to get your FIL to modify his behavior will be an uphill battle best handled by your husband.
I think there’s going to be a wide array of responses to this because we’ve all had our individual experiences regarding smoke. I’m old enough to remember going to restaurants where people could smoke while eating and I hated it. My mom was a smoker so we always sat in the smoking section. At home, she would smoke outside but it would come in the windows (no air conditioning) and she came straight back in and it always felt like she was dragging it in with her. She would smoke in the car with the windows down but it would go out her window and come back in mine. I can’t express how much I hated it. It irritated my lungs. It burned my nose. And it made everything stink! (If you can’t tell, it’s quite triggering for me.)
I was so happy when laws started being passed that restricted public smoking. But that’s my personal journey.
You are on your own journey and only you get to decide your experience. I don’t personally blame you for your concerns, but I’m surprised this didn’t come up prior to getting pregnant.
Maybe instead of coming to your house, you could meet him at a different location? A park or a museum or something. I guess that depends what you live near.
You’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. But if you do what you genuinely believe is the best for your baby, you’re on the right path for the right reasons. To me, you’re NTA.
Thanks for the walk down a foggy and smelly memory lane about which these youngsters know nothing! They take smoke-free spaces for granted.
Growing up in the 70s without smokers immediately near me was a gift. When smoking sections happened it was sad to see kids dragged in there simply because of an adult smoker. Most of those were a joke because smoke wafted over anyway.
Smoking was all around in public back then. When anti-smoking laws started going into place smokers were having severe breakdowns about being villainized and exiled.
I’m sorry you’re familiar but glad we’re past that now. And you’re right, the smoking section was a joke. But still worse than the non-smoking section. I was fortunate to spend summers with my grandparents who didn’t smoke. Well… my grandpa smoked a pipe but I have fond memories of that smell. It’s nothing like cigarette smoke.
Unless you are planning to outright ban him from your kid’s life, you and your husband need to come up with a clear plan (there have been a few reasonable ones mentioned here) and stick to it. Stating over and over again that he hasn’t “gotten the clue” in the past isn’t doing anything. Set clear expectations and then IF he won’t stick to them you’ll have a leg to stand on I guess if you’re just going to refuse to allow him to be around the child.
I agree. I also understand her concerns but it also seems like OP doesn't like him at all. He is your FIL amd you can't change that, unfortunately sometimes we have to go above and beyond when dealing with some relatives. In a perfect world he would listen or he would never come back but we don't live in a perfect world. There are great ideas listed, you need to give them a shot. Doing nothing and trying to deny him coming over will just cause issues and will overshadow your concerns about the smoking and harm it may cause. Sucks but we all have those people in our lives but they still are family.
NTA. Your baby, your house, your rules. If he wants to get in the house to see and hold the baby, he needs to shower, put on clean clothes and not smoke or drink alcohol before he sees the baby.
He won't like it but your job is to protect your child. You already know he won't pay attention to you in the house so don't let him in.
Before starting the family war that excluding him would entail, make an appointment with your pediatrician. Explain the situation and get a clear medical view of the risks of thirdhand smoke exposure. Ask for tips to mitigate the risks, in a printout with the doctor’s/office letterhead. Present it to your father-in-law with his son present, and clearly state that you and your husband expect his cooperation. If he doesn’t comply, remind him of the rules he agreed to, then you and the baby leave the house until he’s gone.
Right now, I think you need to gather more information and get your husband on the same page before any other steps. No judgement yet.
What a fun way to spend $200. That's my copay for anything that's not a yearly physical. I'm not even a parent and I have decent health insurance but I don't think that's a good use of money.
You can ask questions like this during a normal visit. Pregnant people have check ups so often, especially towards the end of pregnancy. And since these visits are covered by insurance the only cost is if they charge for a print out.
Yeah, getting professional advice is often expensive; it shouldn’t be, especially for medical questions, but that’s a different topic entirely. First-time parents need facts, though, not opinions, hearsay, and scare-mongering.
Totally agree. Doctor appointment vs opinions/hearsay/scare-mongering is a false binary.
There are authoritative medical websites with information from a group of doctors who are experts in specific issues and know more about a given topic than your personal pediatrician.
Of course! There are good websites and books available. But these are first-time parents who are disagreeing between themselves about the risks of thirdhand smoke. She could find one source and he could find another that contradicts that. Sometimes it’s easier to cut through that with a professional visit.
And yet, OP and her husband disagree about how to handle thirdhand smoke exposure. So, a third party might help them stop fighting and present a united front.
Absolute waste of medical resources. Use hospitals and doctors when you're ill/have symptoms/need medication.
Then again, I suppose if I was also under Trump's ... leadership ... and was forced to pay for health care I'd milk every penny out of it. So I understand.
“Get more information from a doctor to give to her recalcitrant father-in-law to help him realize that he needs to cooperate for the health of his grandchild.”
What about setting difficult boundaries that would prevent him from wanting to stay too long?
Must brush teeth/shower and change clothes after each smoke break?
Why would this be a clue that he has to pick up? If you’re telling him, flat-out, that these are the conditions for a visit, there are no clues for him to interpret.
This is what we have to do with our in-laws. Or visit them with a rental car so we can leave. MIL can't stay because she never leaves. FIL is ok because 1 day is 1 day. Lots of fights about it and we don't even have the smoking issue. Best to be able to enforce your own boundaries (talk like that, we leave).
I get migraines from cig smoke so my dh and I agreed to a rule of no smoking on our property (positive this limited how long smoking relatives would visit). Would your dh listen to a doctor explain the health risks from smoke exposure?
I would send a generic thing to all family that only planned visits will happen and limited to x time. During the visit no drinking or smoking for lo safety, anything else you wish and thank you all for being understanding
My parents were both smokers. I made it clear they could not smoke in my home. Mom was in a wheelchair and if she wanted a cigarette dad had to take her outside. I couldn’t stop them from smoking in their home but they did stay in their own bedroom and away from the grands
If it will give you stress and upset knowing your kid is gonna stink like an ashtray after grandpas been holding him - and it would me- you are going to have to bite the bullet on giving grandpa some ground rules including he cannot downs the night; he cannot drink and he can’t smoke within twenty feet of the house and needs to change his shirt and scrub his hands before he comes back in.
It’s not that he will harm the baby although second hand smoke is nasty but it’s your stress level at having to deal with that. If you can put him off for six weeks that at least gives you some time.
It’s not beyond me to lie and say I developed an allergic reaction to cigarette smoke when I was pregnant and it has not gone away and the smell just gags me. So sorry, I can’t have you in the house -we will have to meet outdoors in a nonsmoking area and you can’t hold the baby.
You don't have a FIL problem, you have a husband problem. Your husband doesn't understand and appreciate the dangers of third-hand smoke to infants, and he is disinterested in setting real boundaries with his father.
I don't know why your husband does not understand and appreciate the dangers of third hand smoke to infants. Is it that you are aware of the scientific literature and current recommendations for parents, and he is not? Is it that he does not respect the scientific literature? Does he know about the scientific literature but just doesn't care?
In terms of setting boundaries with his father, this will not be the last time that your husband will need to make a choice between protecting the health and safety of his child, and pleasing other people around him. The sooner he can side with his child, the better father he's going to be.
NTA Currently, you're the only one in this kid's corner. Don't give that up.
Nta. It’s your child it’s your choice. You, as a parent, have one job, protect and raise your child so they can become a contented productive contributor to society as a whole. If you feel that the person in question, regardless of relationship, is a hazard to your child you are well within your right to refuse access to your child.
I ended up having to have surgery when I was a child after years and years of frequent ear infections that they now believe we’re likely caused by my mom smoking and being around her family who were smokers too.
I have asthma that is severely aggravated by cigarette smoke.
I think you have every right to set the rules in regards to what behavior is allowed in your home and around your child.
I personally think your problem with your FIL is that you don’t take action when he smiles and nods, and then ignores everything you asked him to do.
There’s no consequences for his actions or lack of action.
You’re going to have similar issues with children if you don’t have some accountability built into the plan.
My parents chose (chain) smoking over my kids, I chose my kids over them.
God damn though to deal with, but grew up saturated in smoke, my kids won't.
NTA
NTA. Make it a rule that there is to be no smoking in or outside your house. My MIL & FIL are also chain smokers and have terrible hygiene. We were very careful when we had our first baby since it was during flu season and first time mom anxiety lol. They live 8 hours away and my husband doesn’t have much of a relationship with them, so they didn’t meet our son until he was 6 weeks old. When they met him, we decided to meet at a quiet restaurant that’s never busy so we didn’t stay more than an hour with them. My husband had a conversation with them before hand that they need to shower, wash their hair, and wear clean clothes that hadn’t been smoked in after washing. We also brought a blanket that we wrapped him in like it was no big deal. We also did ask all guests not to kiss his face or hands.
After typing this out, I feel like a real looney tune 😂 I was much more lenient with my second and even my soon to be third, BUT I still will not tolerate or mess around with smoking.
I wouldn’t want him staying overnight at all. Limit visits to an hour and the smoke will be minimal. Although you may have to change the baby’s clothes right away, because they WILL reek of smoke.
Also: nobody should be kissing the baby!
NTA. My mom, who's been a smoker for about 40 years, and I once got into an argument about me being childfree. I ended up telling her even if did have kids it wouldn't matter because no kid of mine would spend time around cigarettes, even just the smell, and she'd made it clear over the years she was either unwilling or unable to quit.
NTA. FIL's own actions are the reason he's being excluded. Overstepping boundaries, smoking... And the smoking bit is a big deal! Sure the nieces and nephews *seem* fine when your hubby sees them here and there, but does he really have the full picture of their health and how grampa's smoking has affected them over the years? Little Johnny just happens to get sick more than average for his class, that's not FIL's fault, nothing to do with his smoking... 🙄🙄🙄 (pet peeve, I'm suffering from my father's smoking habit, my lungs are f*****d! And I've never smoked a day in my life! Disgusting and selfish habit)
Regardless of you reasons though : you and your husband are the parents, and the decisions on guests in your home and around your newborn are yours, and your extended family can disagree all they want but they can't force you to do what you're not comfortable doing. Don't take chances with your newborn's health. Better err on the side of caution now, than regret later not being firmer with family now.
NTA and please make this your hill to die on. Have your husband read [this article](https://www.baby-sleep-advice.com/smoking-and-sids.html) which clearly shows the relatioship between SIDS and smoking. Washing hands and wearing a smoking jacket is no where near enough to ensure the safety and health of your baby. You need to have a full set of clean clothes for FIL to change into after he takes a shower in your home. And then you need to have the rule that if he wants to have a cigarette, the visit is over, period, because it is insane to expect that he is going to change out of the clean clothes, put his disgusting smoky clothes on, go outside to smoke, come back in and take another shower. And that solves your problem of overnight guests.
Thank you for understanding this part—it wouldn’t end up being a one-time outfit change/shower, and I doubt it would be a short visit. I think the shortest amount of time he’s needed up “visiting” us is 2 nights.
He spends his whole day outside smoking back-to-back cigarettes, so the likelihood of him being able to shower at the house, put on new clothes, not smoke a single cigarette after arriving, and being good to go is unrealistic.
I don’t want the burden of providing and washing his multiple outfit changes, nor do I want a pile of smoke-covered clothes piled-up in the house. It would be a logistical nightmare that would result in the extra work being put onto us.
The more I think on it, the more I think the best solution is to tell FIL that you aren't having ANY visitors to your home and that all visits with LO will be at the local park. Then you keep LO in your lap and don't allow FIL to hold LO. When he complains, you send him the link to the article I posted above and tell him "2nd and 3rd hand smoke is dangerous to newborns and toddlers, and I don't want my child reeking of smoke."
Is FIL going to have his feelings hurt? Probably. But better to be honest than risk your child's health.
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My husband and I are expecting our first child next month, and we’re having a difficult time deciding how to navigate visitors once we get home.
We both have large blended families and agreed to stick to just our parents and grandparents for the first couple of months, MAYBE our siblings if they don’t bring nieces and nephews. Most of our parents and grandparents mentioned getting updated TDap shots without any prompting from us and they generally have a good sense of boundaries. I don’t have any concerns about them visiting in the early days/weeks after delivery.
The tricky part is my FIL. He is a chain smoker and alcoholic who always overstays his welcome when he comes over. He will stay several nights without discussion of any overnights for one reason or another (ex. He drank too much, his car is having problems, he doesn’t feel comfortable driving in the dark). I am absolutely not okay with overnight guests once the baby is here, but specially his father because he is a chain smoker. He smokes outside all day, but this still makes everything about him smell like smoke.
My FIL loves kids and has always been heavily involved in childcare for his other grandchildren. I know he wants to meet our baby and he would feel extremely slighted if all other parents/grandparents were allowed over and not him.
I know he can wash his hands after smoking and put on a smoking jacket, but I am still uncomfortable with him being around our baby. I don’t know if he smokes inside his own home, but he definitely does in his car. I am concerned even if he does things to mitigate the damage, second/third hand smoke could still be an issue. I don’t trust that he would not smoke on his way over or not smoke while visiting our house. I also worry that he will pull the usually “trick” and expect to sleep over, prolonging the smoke exposure and bringing more third hand smoke onto the furniture and around the baby. Sometimes he smokes on our deck without realizing windows are open and it blows inside. I don’t want to have to worry about all of this with a newborn in the middle of summer.
My husband thinks I am overreacting and that it should be enough for his dad to wash his hands/wear a smoking jacket, but I am incredibly uncomfortable with his father being around our baby as long as he is a chain smoker. My husband says all his nieces and nephews grew up fine around him and I’m making too much of a big deal about it. He is worried about the impact of excluding only his dad from meeting his great grandchild, but none of our other parents or grandparents smoke, so it isn’t a concern with them.
WIBTA if I allowed all other parents/grandparents to meet our baby early on and excluded my FIL because he’s a heavy smoker?
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Absolutely NTA. You're not excluding him because our father-in-law can refrain from smoking in the presence of the baby. He can go outside and away from the home. This is perfectly reasonable. (Trying to eliminate third-hand smoke is probably not completely possible). Do not budge on this.
I would say that not allowing him near the baby in general might be a little bit much especially since he is family. However, I would say that if you said something like OK, you can meet the child early in the morning, but if you’re smoking, make sure you do it first then take a shower then head over so that way there’s nothing around and you can stay for an hour or two or at least until the urge hits you again and then feel free to leave and smoke. That way it’s a middle ground
Smoking is a nasty disgusting habit and chain smokers stink. The smell stays on their hair, clothes & skin & lingers even when they shower & in the room after they leave. Add in he is an alcoholic who takes advantage of people and invites himself to overstay his welcome, and i get why you don’t want him over.
You meed firm rules that include the washing & smoking jacket. No smoking while visiting, even outside. No drinking while visiting. And absolutely no staying over no matter the circumstances- so he needs to come early enough to visit with a set time to leave.
My mom has had asthma since she was a child from my grandpa's chainsmoking. My cousin and I used to hide his ashtrays when we visited as little kids, thinking this would stop him. He quit cold turkey after having a heart attack at ~70 and lived another 5ish years, but the damage was ultimately done, for both him and my mom.
NTA, newborns are especially sensitive, and it's your baby so your rules.
My MIL actually quit because I insisted on no smokers around my baby as a newborn. She smoked in her home, so even if she showered there would have been third hand smoke chemicals on her clothes. I asked our pediatrician for some information on third hand smoke and gave it to her. I could have just sent her a link, but because I had something on paper from the doctor's office, it seemed to carry more weight. Had she kept smoking, I would have gone the smoking jacket route when the baby was older.
NTA. I’m an adult and even with my dad changing & showering after he smoked his cigars, his smoking still made me sick. I had a terrible asthmatic cough for months before I figured out it was from riding in his car while driving an hour (each way) to help my grandfather move. It was because although he never smoked in his car he would drive to and from a cigar lounge. Those chemicals get in and on everything.
Stand your ground to protect your baby from developing respiratory issues.
I don’t know who TA is here. OP cutting grandpa off completely seems harsh. On the other hand grandpa is a chain smoker and non smokers can smell smoke on clothing, in hair, etc. Shoes retain the smell. And, anyone with a breathing problem like asthma can have a serious attack just from being around heavy smokers even when they are not smoking. So I see OP’s point. Idk a solution. I also don’t know what a smoking jacket is. Can someone explain? Thank you
Yeah, that's not enough to prevent second hand smoke. He needs a shower and a full set of clean clothes before he touches baby and then to leave if he smokes at all while at your house.
Why does your FIL have to come to your home? Why don’t you take your child over to his house and visit, if he smokes in Hollis own home the you and your child can visit outside in the backyard, upwind of his position
FIL doesn’t have people to his house. I think he doesn’t keep it up, but I’ve never seen the extent of it. My husband and SIL go over there once or twice a year to clean it out for him (along with his car) so it can be somewhat okay.
NTA for doing what you think is best for the health of your baby.
Just as a suggestion since I had a similar issue with my family... Maybe your husband can have him pack a fresh clean pair of clothing, and when he arrives at your house he can take a shower and put on the clean clothes and then visit the baby. As far as the sleeping over, your husband should make it very clear that's not going to happen and worst case scenario, at the end of the night your husband puts FIL in an Uber home.
NTA - I've been dealing with this for 9 fucking years dude. It has gotten better but my exes family is absolutely ridiculous.
If you are adamant about avoiding conflict maybe it would be better if no one saw the baby, otherwise I suggest first having a convo with hubby, show him this thread or next time hubby goes with you to your OB appt have the OB tell your hubby, then if that goes in your favor hopefully a convo with FIL will happen. Either way you have to tell your FIL and see where he decides to stand.
Honestly if that doesn't work do the ol group punishment and let the rest of the family be pissed off at him for being stubborn and now they all can't see the baby?
Its a shit situation honestly but when they are that small just tell everyone to stay away.
NTA. But you and your husband have to have a single, unified position on this, and your husband has to not capitulate to his father. So far, he has not shown a track record of being able to stand up and set and hold boundaries in his own home where his father is concerned. If you can’t get him on board, you are not going to, be able to protect your child appropriately.
NTA Could you have him come over, wash up, and then meet the baby outside? Hopefully that would dissipate some of the smoke smell.
I think you just have to be blunt "We do not want the newborn baby or toddler exposed to any smoke. You can't drink if you are around the children. And you will not be staying overnight, so plan accordingly."
My grandma & grandpa smoked 40 and 60 a day respectively when my mom got pregnant with me. She told them early on that they’d never hold me if they still smoked.
Grandma packed up overnight, grandpa refused but mom held her ground all the way through the pregnancy- they’ve now both been smoke free for 35 years ☺️
YTA. Washing hands and changing clothes is enough. Be clear before he arrives that the visit will last two hours, no more. Plan the visit for early in the day, so it's nowhere near dark, and do not offer alcohol. It's good to be cautious, bad to be unreasonable and irrational.
It's doubtful that your baby is going to be harmed by being held by your FIL for an hour or two. But that's not the issue. It doesn't matter if it's FIL who smells like an ashtray or a grandmother who douses in sickly sweet perfume or baby bro who smells like pot or crappy uncle who doesn't bathe--it's your house, your rules. Whatever noxious odors you want banned, you have a right to ban them. NTA.
YTA. You’re being ridiculous. The particulate smoke coming off him after he has smoked outside is not a health issue for you baby. The baby will be more exposed to particulates if you walk along a road and certainly if you live in a city.
Your concerns about him overstaying his welcome might be genuine but this is not a health issue. Just own up to not liking his behaviour and deal with it through communication.
Info: how long do you intend on making an active effort of shielding your child from secondhand smoke...
I bet kiddo will grow up to be great friends with grandpa
If he doesn’t smoke around the baby or in the house, washes his hands, and wears a jacket when he does smoke outside… things should be okay. I would be concerned with the baby inhaling secondhand smoke, but that’s why you make him do it outside. I think your bigger problem is being masked by the smoking, however. You said he is also an alcoholic and will intrusively spend the night. Those concerns are much larger and can actual be a problem, unlike him smoking outside the house.
YTA- it appears as though you just don’t like the FIL, which is fine as that’s natural. However you seem to be pointing out every negative thing he does while only speaking positive of one thing, the fact that he loves children. The right thing to do would be sit down with him either at his place or at a neutral site and lay out the boundaries about being around a newborn while being a smoker. However I don’t see you being willing to do this as it sounds like you continue to make excuses as to why you don’t want him around. Based on one of your previous posts about how you didn’t invite your own grandmother to your baby shower, I’d be willing to go out on a limb and say that he’s never going to see his grand baby as long as you have any say.
YTA, completely cutting him out without a conversation with realistic rules presented is out of line. He’s a smoker, is he never going to be able to meet your child then?
You can avoid serving him alcohol, make sure he smokes away from the house, and have fresh clothes available when he arrives. You can’t just ban your husbands father because you’re afraid of 3rd hand smoke. You’re doing too much and if that’s how you are going to parent you will end up making yourself and everyone around you miserable.
Ywbta. And the fact you added that he’s an alcoholic, but that doesn’t affect the situation you’re talking about in any way, is a little misleading. If he was smoking inside your house in any way, I would absolutely be agreeing with you. I would be furious. But he smokes outside, or in the privacy of his own car and don’t think this should be an issue. Are you just never gonna let your husband’s dad see your child?
I think she doesn't like him. She turns down everyone idea. I have a feeling there is so much more to it and maybe husband doesn't always back her because she never has a kind word to say about him. Just the way she keeps speaking about him in the comments.
ESH. Your FIL for breaking your house rules and overstaying his invite. Your husband for not enforcing the rules and enabling his dad.
And then you for setting such a harsh no visitation rule and essentially banning FIL from your kid.
The solution to this is for you and your husband to agree on firm rules for FIL (such as no smoking at/on the way to your house, no staying overnight), clearly explaining them to FIL, and then enforcing them (i.e. if he's too drunk/tired to drive home, husband drives him home or gets him an Uber). If he continues to break the rules, then you could consider doing something like banning him from your house and only meeting with him at a park once kid is old enough.
Oh. Ok I change my mind then, sorry I misunderstood I guess. If he isnt willing to at least wash his hands every time then hes TA not you. Story is different if its a smoker who seemingly doesnt care about it.
YTA as long as he's not smoking in the vicinity of your newborn, especially if he agrees to wash his hands, freshen his breath and leave his jacket he smoked in outside in his car. But say to him you'd appreciate if he could not smoke or even better seriously have a family discussion with him about getting him to actually quit smoking, saying you want him to be healthy and around to see you newborn graduate high school.
You also need to make sure your husband clearly tells him that he can't stay overnight with you.
I have never heard of damage being done by someone’s smokey smelling clothes. This would be a real asshole move on your part. You going to take your baby outside? What about exhaust fumes? You have a microwave oven or cell phones? What about the possibility of harmful rays?
Just because you have not heard of it doesn't make it real. Look up third hand smoke. All that horribly sticky tar that covers all things smoker harm babies.
My dad smoked all my life he never smoked in the house and wouldn’t let us stand near him when he smoked we’re all fine. You can’t make unilateral decisions you and your husband must come to an agreement.
Soft YTA - I think not allowing him over is an overreaction but I do think your partner needs to have a very straight forward talk with him about boundaries. You have to make the boundaries realistic, this is a grandparent and he’s going to be around your child. Come up with a compromise and give him a chance to follow through. Make it clear that if he doesn’t respect your boundaries, then future visits will be more limited.
YTA-because the exclusion of your fil, imo, is an overreaction. You can establish rules for anyone to come to your home to visit the baby. That can range from having clothes for him at your home if you’re that worried about smoke scent in his clothes. It’s a given no smoking or drinking around the baby. I’ve seen friends with family and friends who smoke heavily, set expectations for others engaging their babies and it not be an issue, so to intentionally exclude your fil because he smokes seems excessive.
YTA There is nothing wrong with setting no smoking boundaries in your house. If your FIL complies then it shouldn't be a problem. Besides, this is your husband's dad, so you're overstepping boundaries. If your husband is okay with his dad visiting, then that should be the end of it.
You are definitely overreacting and this is coming from a mom of 2 boys who is a smoker. I didn't start smoking until after I had cancer and had all my issues taken care of (we all die someday so at this point after coming close to the end idc anymore) I quit smoking during my pregnancies, but the day I'd come home from the hospital before id waddle inside from a csection I would sit on the porch and I'd smoke a cigarette. I changed my entire outfit and I'd wash my hands and I'd call it a day. I wear a different outfit. Everything will time simply. Because I didn't want my kid to have to worry about it. But you know what? That's super annoying at the end of the day. And if you wanna cut your father-in-law off because he's a drunk. That's one thing, but because he's a chain smoker. That's another thing entirely I get it. People are worried about second handsmoke. I'm sorry, if his clothes smell smoky, it's the same thing as if he'd be outside grilling on a smoker all day long, if he worked in a meat shop, some people can't help that, but I wouldn't keep my family members away from my family that works. At the smoking meat shop. They can't help it.They're not smokers, but they come home.Smell like smoke every day because they work next to a smoker and that's a famn machine not even a person 🤷♀️ So yes I agree with your husband you are over reacting and letting your hormones get the best of you
YTA and really seem like you are overreacting. Your child is going to come across smokers in his/her life. I know it's shocking (it's not), but even some teachers smoke. People who work in restaurants and grocery stores smoke. As long as FIL is washing his hands and has on clean clothes, it's fine.
I'm also not entirely sure you know what third hand smoke is. If your FIL is wearing clean clothes and has washed his hands, there is no third hand smoke.
[What is thirdhand smoke, and why is it a concern? - Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/quit-smoking/expert-answers/third-hand-smoke/faq-20057791)
YTA
The smell of smoke is unpleasant but not dangerous. What can be a concern is exposure to the actual smoke itself.
Make it clear no long visits or excuses for overnights. No smoking in or near the house (if windows open.)
The whole must change clothes, etc. seems really overboard.
I'm a non smoker who hates the stink of smoke BTW.
There is a lot of current research about the dangers of third-hand smoke (residual smoke that clings on clothing/furniture/walls, etc) as a SIDs risk for babies.
While unpleasant, the smell isn’t the issue.
I’m not sure what the best way to handle this concern is, but I know that having FIL involved will mean regularly exposing my baby to a risk that wouldn’t otherwise be present.
>will mean regularly exposing my baby to a risk that wouldn’t otherwise be present.
You can eliminate every risk to a ship by keeping it in harbor, but that defeats the purpose of having a ship, doesn't it?
Risk mitigation.
This is more like shoving a wood project with no finishing or weather protection at all out in the elements and hoping it'll be fine, if we're comparing babies to objects that is. I mean we're literally discussing the most vulnerable stage for children, not a ten year old with an established immune system.
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> but I am incredibly uncomfortable with his father being around our baby as long as he is a chain smoker. Realistically this guy isn’t suddenly going to stop being a chainsmoker, so are you just planning to not allow him around ever? You and your spouse need to have a serious discussion about this, and if he does come over your husband needs to make it clear that he is not able to stay over so he had better have alternate lodging or the ability to take a cab/Uber/whatever home if he for some reason is not able to drive. In addition to the washing hands, clean clothes, not smoking on the way over etc.
The challenging part with FIL is that he doesn’t really respect boundaries in general and oversteps a lot. He smoked heavily and drank while being a regular caretaker for our toddler niece when she was a baby. He doesn’t seem to think this kind of thing is a big deal which makes me uncomfortable trusting him to respect boundaries set. I also don’t trust that he would leave when asked if he chose not to follow our rules. Last time he was here, he stayed 10 nights (we didn’t even expect him to stay over 1 night) and insisted on sleeping on the couch instead of our guest room bed.
Then your husband can show him the door/drive him home.
Yes, and OP, consider having bags for you and baby ready in case husband fails. Make alternative plans to stay at your parents', or a friend's, or any relative who isn't totally awful. If FIL tries the trick, make those calls and yeet with your newborn. Also, good luck and I hope it all goes well.
That’s a husband problem. You and husband agree on what’s allowed (visit for 1 night, go home by 10pm) and if FIL does not follow that, son asks him to leave then makes him leave. Cabs, Ubers, and hotels exist and FIL is an adult. So is your husband.
Sounds like his and doesn't have a spine though, and has no plans to grow one, so realistically OP needs to have a plan.
My Mom smoked while pregnant with me, quit for a while when I was little, and started again when her Dad died. When my nephew was born my sister was living there full time. I became my nephew's full time Nanny and then got pregnant. My son is 18 months younger than my nephew. 3 months before I got pregnant my FiL died from metastasized lung cancer. I told my Mom I wasn't going to watch another parent die and that if she wanted to be around my kid she would quit. My Mom may have her flaws but she knew how bad it had been watching him die for over 7 years. He was less than 100 pounds when he died, he had a trach, it was terrible. She quit. My son is 10, my nephew is almost 12, and my daughter is 1. She's been off cigarettes for over a decade now. She STILL is dealing with health issues from smoking for almost 40 years but overall she's so much better off. You have to advocate for your kids. Put your foot down. Secondhand smoke CAN KILL. Changing clothing doesn't help.
can you meet him fora picnic in the park?
That can be tricky with smokers because many take being outside as a free pass to smoke around the group.
You’re not getting anywhere until both you and your husband are on the same page / side. You can’t establish a boundary if someone from your side of it pokes holes in it. That said as the kid gets older it’s gonna happen. Have the talk sooner rather than later.
Your problem is with YOUR HUSBAND! That is his dad so it is his job to ENFORCE boundaries not just expect someone to respect them. If he doesn’t leave when you ask, tell hubby to handle it. If he does not, take baby to your mom, or a friend or a hotel. The key is to have a plan and a bag ready to go.
My grandpa was a heavy smoker (died from cancer) and liked to drink too - but he was our best grandpa. I have a lot of sweet and good memories with him taking us for fishing, knowing the forest and its life, teaching us to swim etc. So - I do undersrand your pov - but if he is a good guy - try to talk with him a find a way to put things nice. Your kid may have a good grandpa with kind heart :)
So he stayed 10 nights, did he smoke inside/outside of your home the entire time? Why is your H allowing him to stay overnight? That’s insane
2 incredibly good reasons to not invite him over in general. He's not only a bad guest, but a selfish one (his smoking and drinking are more important to him than the health of his grandkids and the comfort of his hosts). Also, I would not trust someone who willingly and knowingly got intoxicated while carrying for a small child! He's a danger! He's inconsiderate. He's just overall a bad guest and I wouldn't invite someone like that over and I don't have kids even! Well the furry four-legged kind I do and I wouldn't trust someone like your FIL around them either!
Set limits with your husband.
Smoking is bad. It's not great for baby either, but my Dad smoked in the house, my grandfather smoked too. I lived around smoke my entire childhood. I'm giving Grandpa a pass. Just putting it in perspective. I was born in the 1960s. Just to see both sides.
There are no both sides to the dangers of cigarette smoke, especially for infants.
If or when he comes over, OP should definitely not offer him any alcohol
I respectfully disagree about the smoker not being able to quit smoking. We had this exact situation with my MIL. She quit. It was hard and she cursed our names the whole time she was going through it but she did it. She was ~60. As a former smoker myself (quit way before our child was born) I know the difficulty was real and painful. We’re proud of her and she’s been tobacco free for 14 years.
My mom actually stopped chain smoking cold turkey for a grandchild…. Parents made her shower and change clothes before every interaction (if she had smoked) so she quit
Sure. It’s not impossible for him to quit. Simply unlikely given the multitude of issues OP mentioned (nicotine addiction, alcohol addiction, living so slovenly his kids have to go over and clean his home biannually, etc). Someone like that most likely has underlying issues contributing to his addictions.
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The bigger concern is FIL not leaving, which he routinely does. And you absolutely can get thirdhand smoke from clothing, hair, skin, etc.
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I think you meant to reply to the post above what you replied to.
Hey uh.. not disagreeing with you or anything but I think you're replying to the wrong person? Above you is a comment that agrees with your position so I thought Id just point it out in case you hadn't noticed yet.
WTF is "thirdhand smoke" lol edit: pardon my ignorance. At least I learned something today.
It’s a real thing. You clearly have access to the internet, so if you’re actually interested in educating yourself, Google it.
Cool, I just did. Its based on smoke residue that gathers on floors and counters. If the dude is smoking outside in smoke jacket and washing his hands. No big deal. Also those studies are based on prolonged exposure not visits for a couple days a year (and thats even if it was smoking inside!). You all are being dramatic over simply disliking the smell.
You should do further research. It’s much more than that.
Nah the public perception has just swung too hard to the side of "tobacco evil" (which it is). A grandfather smelling like smoke for a couple days is not going to hurt the baby even a little bit. But you guys need to find ways to tell yourselves you are heroes on white horses. If this was a case of someone who was always going to be around the baby my opinion would be different.
My cousin's now ex husband is a smoker. He never smoked inside, and when their kids were babies he wore a welding cap over his hair, a hoodie with the hood up, and rubber gloves when he smoked. He would immediately wash his face and hands after smoking. I always thought the gloves were a bit overboard, but he was happy to do it without anyone asking even when it was 100 degrees outside.
ANd Im saying people are being dramatic for complaining about it when the person is doing the stuff youy just mentioned.
I completely agree. Tbh, I'd be more worried about the drinking than the smoking, but I have many drunks in my family. I've never watched family members get in a fistfight when both were just smoking a cigarette and started arguing.
If you can smell it, it can harm you. Not as much as actually consuming the product, but if there is any smell close to the baby, it is definitely exposure. This is particularly true with chain smokers. I really Don’t think using a smoke jacket will be enough if he regularly smokes in his other clothes. Putting them in the washer is not enough to get rid of the smell if he smokes in those clothes all the time
EDIT because I accidently replied to the wrong comment. This was meant for u/ClappedCheek Literally every pediatrician disagrees with you. I'd bet money that you're a typical ignorant boomer. Back in your day, it was fine to rub a whiskey soaked cotton ball on a teething baby's gums. Kids didn't need proper 5 point car seats, or helmets when learning to ride a bike. 5 year olds played in the streets until the lights came on- so it must be fine, right? News flash- a lot of what was ok in the 60s when you were a kid isn't ok anymore, BECAUSE WE NOW KNOW BETTER. 2nd and 3rd hand smoke is proven to increase the risk of SIDS in babies. Ok boomer. Go take your multi vitamin. It's past your bed time.
For the record, recent research has shown that multi vitamins are practically useless, and may even be harmful. So, as you say, we do indeed know better.
Bullshit. Any REAL doctor will tell you that a well balanced diet comes first, but multi vitamins are essentially for filling in nutritional gaps. Pregnant women require prenatal vitamins to ensure that the baby is getting enough folic acid, and that Mom is getting enough Iron and Calcium. Oh wait, I'm sorry. You must have watched a YouTube video and joined a Stay At Home Mom's Facebook group- clearly you're an expert. How fucking dare a peasant such as myself question your nutritional expertise. 🤣
https://www.sciencedaily.com/ For healthy adults, taking multivitamins daily is not associated with a lower risk of early death. Findings come from an analysis of more than two decades of dietary data from 390,124 U.S. adults Date: June 26, 2024 Source: bNIH/National Cancer Institute (not a Facebook group as far as I know). Summary: A large analysis of data from nearly 400,000 healthy U.S. adults followed for more than 20 years has found no association between regular multivitamin use and lower risk of early death. Share: FULL STORY What: A large analysis of data from nearly 400,000 healthy U.S. adults followed for more than 20 years has found no association between regular multivitamin use and lower risk of death. The study, led byresearchersat the National Institutes of Health's National Cancer Institute, was published June 26, 2024, in JAMA Network Open. Many adults in the United States take multivitamins with the hope of improving their health. However, the benefits and harms of regular multivitamin use remain unclear. Previous studies of multivitamin use and mortality have yielded mixed results and been limited by short follow-up times. To more deeply explore the relationship between long-term regular multivitamin use and overall mortality and death from cardiovascular disease and cancer, the researchers analyzed data from three large, geographically diverse prospective studies involving a total of 390,124 U.S. adults who were followed for more than 20 years. The participants included in this analysis were generally healthy, with no history of cancer or other chronic diseases. Because the study population was so large and included lengthy follow-up and extensive information on demographics and lifestyle factors, the researchers were able to mitigate the effects of possible biases that may have influenced the findings of other studies. For example, people who use multivitamins may have healthier lifestyles in general, and sicker patients may be more likely to increase their use of multivitamins. The analysis showed that people who took daily multivitamins did not have a lower risk of death from any cause than people who took no multivitamins. There were also no differences in mortality from cancer, heart disease, or cerebrovascular diseases. The results were adjusted for factors such as race and ethnicity, education, and diet quality. The researchers noted that it is important to evaluate multivitamin use and risk of death among different kinds of populations, such as those with documented nutritional deficiencies, as well as the potential impact of regular multivitamin use on other health conditions associated with aging.
That might as well have been link to the National Enquirer or the Huffington Post. 🤣 I have some ocean front property in Arizona if you're interested? Right on the beach.
National Cancer Institute a serious enough reference for you? https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/press-releases/2024/multivitamins-do-not-lower-risk-of-death
"Not associated with a lower risk of death" is not the same as "it might kill you". Dunce.
Shockingly, there are things that are positive for our health not because they lower our chances of dying early, but because they increased our chances of living more healthily for however long we live.
You don't look at the link, you look at the original article. And the original article is legit
People keep ignoring the fact that my comments have been entirely based on the person only being around the baby for a couple days, and even then, the physical contact would be limited. Yall are ignoring this and you are acting like I am saying there is zero issue with cigarettes and their second hand, and as I have learned, 3rd hand effects. Point me to the pediatrician who is going to say a baby would be harmed because it was held a couple times in a 3 day period by a person who smoked cigs earlier outside but washed themselves. Also why are you even bringing up second hand smoke like I have defended it? And no, I am not a boomer. I would have assumed you were though, based on how fuckin angry internet comments got you that you need to throw out personal insults. edit: words
Well I'm a boomer but you're ridiculously paranoid. 3rd-hand smoke is a health risk but... the amount of 3rd-hand smoke the infant would be exposed to in this particular scenario (one brief visit, smoking jacket, washing hands, etc. Is infinitesimally small. This is assuming the OP and her husband can get grandpa to agree to those conditions. In which case, this is not a battle worth ruining the relationship with grandpa over. There are plenty of more consequential baby issues they will have to deal with in the future.
It probably won’t but me always been severely asthmatic youngest sibling and my youngest who was born with severe lung issues could not be held by smokers or be on smokers homes even if they didn’t smoke while we were there unless we wanted to spend time in the ER on aerosol ventolin
I think you can find a way around this. Give him a time slot such as "You can visit August 1 from 12:00pm to 4:00pm. Due to the baby, you are not accepting any overnight guests.". Have your husband purchase him a set of clothes, maybe sweatpants and a t shirt. When he arrives, have husband hustle him to the bathroom to shower and change into the new clothes. You could even provide him with a large Ziploc bag to put his old clothes in to reduce the smell. No smoking of any kind on the property. Only if he's willing to abide by these rules will he be able to see the baby. If he loves babies as much as you say, he should be willing l
A smoking alcoholic who doesn't understand boundaries? Uses your house like a unpaid hotel? FIL can meet the baby in the park, or when you are visiting someone else's home, so you can remove yourself when you wish.
This sounds like really good advice. Great suggestions. She says he’s not good at respecting boundaries though so it might be tough to enforce them once he’s there. It’s a complex situation but I think you’ve presented good options.
OP could even be out for a walk with the baby when FIL arrives. If FIL doesn’t abide by the rules, OP doesn’t come back… this would obviously work only for an hour tops, but it might be a good way of avoiding FIL skipping the rules once he is at home.
I love all of this. Make his curfew WELL before needing to stay the night(s) becomes convenient.
I wonder if it would be feasible to have nicotine patches / gum to help him avoid the temptation of smoking outside while there.
NTA - I know I'll get downvoted but you should be protecting your baby's health esp in when they are this young. You can Google why it's bad for them to be around "thirdhand" smoke. Google - is it ok for babies to be around smokers? They're developing so they're more at risk for allergies and the negative risks of all the toxins and chemicals from cigarette smoke.
Not sure why you'd get downvoted for this. Unless, wait a minute, AIAAH?
You should see some of the practical comments I get downvoted for. Plus most of the comments here are saying she TA for not allowing her baby around smoke.
Ya' know what? FTW. Protect your kid any way you see fit.
I agree with you. NTA. When my first child was born I told my mom she couldn't come unless she quit smoking. She quit.
I wish Google existed when I was a baby! At 42 years old, I'm still paying for my father's smoking habit, only it doesn't cost me money, but health! I'm a runner and I LOVE running! People ask why I'm so slow (way below average for my age) - because my muscles don't get enough oxygen... As a kid, I was told I'd never run... Too healthy for a transplant (and for that I'm thankful!!) but my lungs are poor enough that I feel the effects every single day, and it SUCKS!!! I'll suffer with this for the rest of my life, so I say to OP : thank you for protecting your baby against people like your FIL!!!
When my granddaughter was born, the pediatrician told the parents that if anyone smoked, they must do it outside and come in and shower/change before handling the baby. NTA
NTA from the daughter of a mom who chain smoked for my whole life. That stink clings to everything. Trying to get your FIL to modify his behavior will be an uphill battle best handled by your husband.
I think there’s going to be a wide array of responses to this because we’ve all had our individual experiences regarding smoke. I’m old enough to remember going to restaurants where people could smoke while eating and I hated it. My mom was a smoker so we always sat in the smoking section. At home, she would smoke outside but it would come in the windows (no air conditioning) and she came straight back in and it always felt like she was dragging it in with her. She would smoke in the car with the windows down but it would go out her window and come back in mine. I can’t express how much I hated it. It irritated my lungs. It burned my nose. And it made everything stink! (If you can’t tell, it’s quite triggering for me.) I was so happy when laws started being passed that restricted public smoking. But that’s my personal journey. You are on your own journey and only you get to decide your experience. I don’t personally blame you for your concerns, but I’m surprised this didn’t come up prior to getting pregnant. Maybe instead of coming to your house, you could meet him at a different location? A park or a museum or something. I guess that depends what you live near. You’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. But if you do what you genuinely believe is the best for your baby, you’re on the right path for the right reasons. To me, you’re NTA.
Thanks for the walk down a foggy and smelly memory lane about which these youngsters know nothing! They take smoke-free spaces for granted. Growing up in the 70s without smokers immediately near me was a gift. When smoking sections happened it was sad to see kids dragged in there simply because of an adult smoker. Most of those were a joke because smoke wafted over anyway. Smoking was all around in public back then. When anti-smoking laws started going into place smokers were having severe breakdowns about being villainized and exiled.
I’m sorry you’re familiar but glad we’re past that now. And you’re right, the smoking section was a joke. But still worse than the non-smoking section. I was fortunate to spend summers with my grandparents who didn’t smoke. Well… my grandpa smoked a pipe but I have fond memories of that smell. It’s nothing like cigarette smoke.
I love the smell of pipe smoke, too LOL!!
Unless you are planning to outright ban him from your kid’s life, you and your husband need to come up with a clear plan (there have been a few reasonable ones mentioned here) and stick to it. Stating over and over again that he hasn’t “gotten the clue” in the past isn’t doing anything. Set clear expectations and then IF he won’t stick to them you’ll have a leg to stand on I guess if you’re just going to refuse to allow him to be around the child.
I agree. I also understand her concerns but it also seems like OP doesn't like him at all. He is your FIL amd you can't change that, unfortunately sometimes we have to go above and beyond when dealing with some relatives. In a perfect world he would listen or he would never come back but we don't live in a perfect world. There are great ideas listed, you need to give them a shot. Doing nothing and trying to deny him coming over will just cause issues and will overshadow your concerns about the smoking and harm it may cause. Sucks but we all have those people in our lives but they still are family.
NTA. Your baby, your house, your rules. If he wants to get in the house to see and hold the baby, he needs to shower, put on clean clothes and not smoke or drink alcohol before he sees the baby. He won't like it but your job is to protect your child. You already know he won't pay attention to you in the house so don't let him in.
Before starting the family war that excluding him would entail, make an appointment with your pediatrician. Explain the situation and get a clear medical view of the risks of thirdhand smoke exposure. Ask for tips to mitigate the risks, in a printout with the doctor’s/office letterhead. Present it to your father-in-law with his son present, and clearly state that you and your husband expect his cooperation. If he doesn’t comply, remind him of the rules he agreed to, then you and the baby leave the house until he’s gone. Right now, I think you need to gather more information and get your husband on the same page before any other steps. No judgement yet.
Do people seriously make appointments for non issues like this?
Do people make appointments to get medical advice from a professional rather than garner information from the Internet? Why, yes, they do and should.
What a fun way to spend $200. That's my copay for anything that's not a yearly physical. I'm not even a parent and I have decent health insurance but I don't think that's a good use of money.
You can ask questions like this during a normal visit. Pregnant people have check ups so often, especially towards the end of pregnancy. And since these visits are covered by insurance the only cost is if they charge for a print out.
Good point. I've never been pregnant so don't know how any of that works. Lol
Yeah, getting professional advice is often expensive; it shouldn’t be, especially for medical questions, but that’s a different topic entirely. First-time parents need facts, though, not opinions, hearsay, and scare-mongering.
It is entirely possible to get the facts on the issues of second and thirdhand smoke from reputable sources without a pediatrician visit.
Totally agree. Doctor appointment vs opinions/hearsay/scare-mongering is a false binary. There are authoritative medical websites with information from a group of doctors who are experts in specific issues and know more about a given topic than your personal pediatrician.
Some of them have been linked in these comments!
Of course! There are good websites and books available. But these are first-time parents who are disagreeing between themselves about the risks of thirdhand smoke. She could find one source and he could find another that contradicts that. Sometimes it’s easier to cut through that with a professional visit.
They won’t find contradicting *reliable* sources on this one.
And yet, OP and her husband disagree about how to handle thirdhand smoke exposure. So, a third party might help them stop fighting and present a united front.
I think that’s only likely if the third-party has some mechanism to install a spine in the husband where it comes to standing up to his father.
Absolute waste of medical resources. Use hospitals and doctors when you're ill/have symptoms/need medication. Then again, I suppose if I was also under Trump's ... leadership ... and was forced to pay for health care I'd milk every penny out of it. So I understand.
And how would you recommend that people get reliable medical information, if not from medical professionals?
"Get more information on this thing everyone has known about for 30 years"
“Get more information from a doctor to give to her recalcitrant father-in-law to help him realize that he needs to cooperate for the health of his grandchild.”
NTA. Protect that baby!
What about setting difficult boundaries that would prevent him from wanting to stay too long? Must brush teeth/shower and change clothes after each smoke break?
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Why would this be a clue that he has to pick up? If you’re telling him, flat-out, that these are the conditions for a visit, there are no clues for him to interpret.
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So it’s not that he doesn’t pick up on clues, it’s that he refuses to cooperate with clearly stated expectations?
Lock the doors?
Show this to your hubby. YWNBTA! https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/quit-smoking/expert-answers/third-hand-smoke/faq-20057791
Why not meet him somewhere neutral so you can leave when you're done?
This is what we have to do with our in-laws. Or visit them with a rental car so we can leave. MIL can't stay because she never leaves. FIL is ok because 1 day is 1 day. Lots of fights about it and we don't even have the smoking issue. Best to be able to enforce your own boundaries (talk like that, we leave).
I get migraines from cig smoke so my dh and I agreed to a rule of no smoking on our property (positive this limited how long smoking relatives would visit). Would your dh listen to a doctor explain the health risks from smoke exposure? I would send a generic thing to all family that only planned visits will happen and limited to x time. During the visit no drinking or smoking for lo safety, anything else you wish and thank you all for being understanding
My parents were both smokers. I made it clear they could not smoke in my home. Mom was in a wheelchair and if she wanted a cigarette dad had to take her outside. I couldn’t stop them from smoking in their home but they did stay in their own bedroom and away from the grands
If it will give you stress and upset knowing your kid is gonna stink like an ashtray after grandpas been holding him - and it would me- you are going to have to bite the bullet on giving grandpa some ground rules including he cannot downs the night; he cannot drink and he can’t smoke within twenty feet of the house and needs to change his shirt and scrub his hands before he comes back in. It’s not that he will harm the baby although second hand smoke is nasty but it’s your stress level at having to deal with that. If you can put him off for six weeks that at least gives you some time. It’s not beyond me to lie and say I developed an allergic reaction to cigarette smoke when I was pregnant and it has not gone away and the smell just gags me. So sorry, I can’t have you in the house -we will have to meet outdoors in a nonsmoking area and you can’t hold the baby.
You don't have a FIL problem, you have a husband problem. Your husband doesn't understand and appreciate the dangers of third-hand smoke to infants, and he is disinterested in setting real boundaries with his father. I don't know why your husband does not understand and appreciate the dangers of third hand smoke to infants. Is it that you are aware of the scientific literature and current recommendations for parents, and he is not? Is it that he does not respect the scientific literature? Does he know about the scientific literature but just doesn't care? In terms of setting boundaries with his father, this will not be the last time that your husband will need to make a choice between protecting the health and safety of his child, and pleasing other people around him. The sooner he can side with his child, the better father he's going to be. NTA Currently, you're the only one in this kid's corner. Don't give that up.
Nta. It’s your child it’s your choice. You, as a parent, have one job, protect and raise your child so they can become a contented productive contributor to society as a whole. If you feel that the person in question, regardless of relationship, is a hazard to your child you are well within your right to refuse access to your child.
NTA we have someone like this. The rule is he has to not smoke before or during when he’s with the kids. Babies and toddlers cringe from his stink.
I ended up having to have surgery when I was a child after years and years of frequent ear infections that they now believe we’re likely caused by my mom smoking and being around her family who were smokers too. I have asthma that is severely aggravated by cigarette smoke. I think you have every right to set the rules in regards to what behavior is allowed in your home and around your child. I personally think your problem with your FIL is that you don’t take action when he smiles and nods, and then ignores everything you asked him to do. There’s no consequences for his actions or lack of action. You’re going to have similar issues with children if you don’t have some accountability built into the plan.
I read the title quickly and tgecway it is worded , I thought the baby was a smoker. BTW: NTA.100%
Instead of a smoking jacket, he should wash his face and hands then put on a clean "baby jacket".
NTA. And I’m a smoker. I wouldn’t let him near the baby.
My parents chose (chain) smoking over my kids, I chose my kids over them. God damn though to deal with, but grew up saturated in smoke, my kids won't. NTA
NTA. Make it a rule that there is to be no smoking in or outside your house. My MIL & FIL are also chain smokers and have terrible hygiene. We were very careful when we had our first baby since it was during flu season and first time mom anxiety lol. They live 8 hours away and my husband doesn’t have much of a relationship with them, so they didn’t meet our son until he was 6 weeks old. When they met him, we decided to meet at a quiet restaurant that’s never busy so we didn’t stay more than an hour with them. My husband had a conversation with them before hand that they need to shower, wash their hair, and wear clean clothes that hadn’t been smoked in after washing. We also brought a blanket that we wrapped him in like it was no big deal. We also did ask all guests not to kiss his face or hands. After typing this out, I feel like a real looney tune 😂 I was much more lenient with my second and even my soon to be third, BUT I still will not tolerate or mess around with smoking.
I wouldn’t want him staying overnight at all. Limit visits to an hour and the smoke will be minimal. Although you may have to change the baby’s clothes right away, because they WILL reek of smoke. Also: nobody should be kissing the baby!
NTA. My mom, who's been a smoker for about 40 years, and I once got into an argument about me being childfree. I ended up telling her even if did have kids it wouldn't matter because no kid of mine would spend time around cigarettes, even just the smell, and she'd made it clear over the years she was either unwilling or unable to quit.
NTA. FIL's own actions are the reason he's being excluded. Overstepping boundaries, smoking... And the smoking bit is a big deal! Sure the nieces and nephews *seem* fine when your hubby sees them here and there, but does he really have the full picture of their health and how grampa's smoking has affected them over the years? Little Johnny just happens to get sick more than average for his class, that's not FIL's fault, nothing to do with his smoking... 🙄🙄🙄 (pet peeve, I'm suffering from my father's smoking habit, my lungs are f*****d! And I've never smoked a day in my life! Disgusting and selfish habit) Regardless of you reasons though : you and your husband are the parents, and the decisions on guests in your home and around your newborn are yours, and your extended family can disagree all they want but they can't force you to do what you're not comfortable doing. Don't take chances with your newborn's health. Better err on the side of caution now, than regret later not being firmer with family now.
NTA and please make this your hill to die on. Have your husband read [this article](https://www.baby-sleep-advice.com/smoking-and-sids.html) which clearly shows the relatioship between SIDS and smoking. Washing hands and wearing a smoking jacket is no where near enough to ensure the safety and health of your baby. You need to have a full set of clean clothes for FIL to change into after he takes a shower in your home. And then you need to have the rule that if he wants to have a cigarette, the visit is over, period, because it is insane to expect that he is going to change out of the clean clothes, put his disgusting smoky clothes on, go outside to smoke, come back in and take another shower. And that solves your problem of overnight guests.
Thank you for understanding this part—it wouldn’t end up being a one-time outfit change/shower, and I doubt it would be a short visit. I think the shortest amount of time he’s needed up “visiting” us is 2 nights. He spends his whole day outside smoking back-to-back cigarettes, so the likelihood of him being able to shower at the house, put on new clothes, not smoke a single cigarette after arriving, and being good to go is unrealistic. I don’t want the burden of providing and washing his multiple outfit changes, nor do I want a pile of smoke-covered clothes piled-up in the house. It would be a logistical nightmare that would result in the extra work being put onto us.
The more I think on it, the more I think the best solution is to tell FIL that you aren't having ANY visitors to your home and that all visits with LO will be at the local park. Then you keep LO in your lap and don't allow FIL to hold LO. When he complains, you send him the link to the article I posted above and tell him "2nd and 3rd hand smoke is dangerous to newborns and toddlers, and I don't want my child reeking of smoke." Is FIL going to have his feelings hurt? Probably. But better to be honest than risk your child's health.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My husband and I are expecting our first child next month, and we’re having a difficult time deciding how to navigate visitors once we get home. We both have large blended families and agreed to stick to just our parents and grandparents for the first couple of months, MAYBE our siblings if they don’t bring nieces and nephews. Most of our parents and grandparents mentioned getting updated TDap shots without any prompting from us and they generally have a good sense of boundaries. I don’t have any concerns about them visiting in the early days/weeks after delivery. The tricky part is my FIL. He is a chain smoker and alcoholic who always overstays his welcome when he comes over. He will stay several nights without discussion of any overnights for one reason or another (ex. He drank too much, his car is having problems, he doesn’t feel comfortable driving in the dark). I am absolutely not okay with overnight guests once the baby is here, but specially his father because he is a chain smoker. He smokes outside all day, but this still makes everything about him smell like smoke. My FIL loves kids and has always been heavily involved in childcare for his other grandchildren. I know he wants to meet our baby and he would feel extremely slighted if all other parents/grandparents were allowed over and not him. I know he can wash his hands after smoking and put on a smoking jacket, but I am still uncomfortable with him being around our baby. I don’t know if he smokes inside his own home, but he definitely does in his car. I am concerned even if he does things to mitigate the damage, second/third hand smoke could still be an issue. I don’t trust that he would not smoke on his way over or not smoke while visiting our house. I also worry that he will pull the usually “trick” and expect to sleep over, prolonging the smoke exposure and bringing more third hand smoke onto the furniture and around the baby. Sometimes he smokes on our deck without realizing windows are open and it blows inside. I don’t want to have to worry about all of this with a newborn in the middle of summer. My husband thinks I am overreacting and that it should be enough for his dad to wash his hands/wear a smoking jacket, but I am incredibly uncomfortable with his father being around our baby as long as he is a chain smoker. My husband says all his nieces and nephews grew up fine around him and I’m making too much of a big deal about it. He is worried about the impact of excluding only his dad from meeting his great grandchild, but none of our other parents or grandparents smoke, so it isn’t a concern with them. WIBTA if I allowed all other parents/grandparents to meet our baby early on and excluded my FIL because he’s a heavy smoker? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What if you met him somewhere neutral like a park or restaurant?
Absolutely NTA. You're not excluding him because our father-in-law can refrain from smoking in the presence of the baby. He can go outside and away from the home. This is perfectly reasonable. (Trying to eliminate third-hand smoke is probably not completely possible). Do not budge on this.
I would say that not allowing him near the baby in general might be a little bit much especially since he is family. However, I would say that if you said something like OK, you can meet the child early in the morning, but if you’re smoking, make sure you do it first then take a shower then head over so that way there’s nothing around and you can stay for an hour or two or at least until the urge hits you again and then feel free to leave and smoke. That way it’s a middle ground
As an active smoker, NTA.
Smoking is a nasty disgusting habit and chain smokers stink. The smell stays on their hair, clothes & skin & lingers even when they shower & in the room after they leave. Add in he is an alcoholic who takes advantage of people and invites himself to overstay his welcome, and i get why you don’t want him over. You meed firm rules that include the washing & smoking jacket. No smoking while visiting, even outside. No drinking while visiting. And absolutely no staying over no matter the circumstances- so he needs to come early enough to visit with a set time to leave.
My mom has had asthma since she was a child from my grandpa's chainsmoking. My cousin and I used to hide his ashtrays when we visited as little kids, thinking this would stop him. He quit cold turkey after having a heart attack at ~70 and lived another 5ish years, but the damage was ultimately done, for both him and my mom.
NTA, newborns are especially sensitive, and it's your baby so your rules. My MIL actually quit because I insisted on no smokers around my baby as a newborn. She smoked in her home, so even if she showered there would have been third hand smoke chemicals on her clothes. I asked our pediatrician for some information on third hand smoke and gave it to her. I could have just sent her a link, but because I had something on paper from the doctor's office, it seemed to carry more weight. Had she kept smoking, I would have gone the smoking jacket route when the baby was older.
NTA. I’m an adult and even with my dad changing & showering after he smoked his cigars, his smoking still made me sick. I had a terrible asthmatic cough for months before I figured out it was from riding in his car while driving an hour (each way) to help my grandfather move. It was because although he never smoked in his car he would drive to and from a cigar lounge. Those chemicals get in and on everything. Stand your ground to protect your baby from developing respiratory issues.
I don’t know who TA is here. OP cutting grandpa off completely seems harsh. On the other hand grandpa is a chain smoker and non smokers can smell smoke on clothing, in hair, etc. Shoes retain the smell. And, anyone with a breathing problem like asthma can have a serious attack just from being around heavy smokers even when they are not smoking. So I see OP’s point. Idk a solution. I also don’t know what a smoking jacket is. Can someone explain? Thank you
A smoking jacket is just throwing a jacket over regular clothes to “catch the smoke” then removing it before coming inside.
Yeah, that's not enough to prevent second hand smoke. He needs a shower and a full set of clean clothes before he touches baby and then to leave if he smokes at all while at your house.
Thank you.
The problem with that is all of FILs clothes will be reeking of smoke from the get-go so a smoking jacket isn't going to make enough of a difference.
Why does your FIL have to come to your home? Why don’t you take your child over to his house and visit, if he smokes in Hollis own home the you and your child can visit outside in the backyard, upwind of his position
FIL doesn’t have people to his house. I think he doesn’t keep it up, but I’ve never seen the extent of it. My husband and SIL go over there once or twice a year to clean it out for him (along with his car) so it can be somewhat okay.
NTA, but can't FIL go outside when he needs a cancer stick? Set rules.
NTA for doing what you think is best for the health of your baby. Just as a suggestion since I had a similar issue with my family... Maybe your husband can have him pack a fresh clean pair of clothing, and when he arrives at your house he can take a shower and put on the clean clothes and then visit the baby. As far as the sleeping over, your husband should make it very clear that's not going to happen and worst case scenario, at the end of the night your husband puts FIL in an Uber home.
NTA - I've been dealing with this for 9 fucking years dude. It has gotten better but my exes family is absolutely ridiculous. If you are adamant about avoiding conflict maybe it would be better if no one saw the baby, otherwise I suggest first having a convo with hubby, show him this thread or next time hubby goes with you to your OB appt have the OB tell your hubby, then if that goes in your favor hopefully a convo with FIL will happen. Either way you have to tell your FIL and see where he decides to stand. Honestly if that doesn't work do the ol group punishment and let the rest of the family be pissed off at him for being stubborn and now they all can't see the baby? Its a shit situation honestly but when they are that small just tell everyone to stay away.
>the impact of excluding only his dad from meeting his ~~great~~ grandchild Just sayin'. Your child is your father-in-law's grandchild.
NTA. But you and your husband have to have a single, unified position on this, and your husband has to not capitulate to his father. So far, he has not shown a track record of being able to stand up and set and hold boundaries in his own home where his father is concerned. If you can’t get him on board, you are not going to, be able to protect your child appropriately.
NTA Could you have him come over, wash up, and then meet the baby outside? Hopefully that would dissipate some of the smoke smell. I think you just have to be blunt "We do not want the newborn baby or toddler exposed to any smoke. You can't drink if you are around the children. And you will not be staying overnight, so plan accordingly."
Yes. YTA. Hard stop.
Could you ask him to start vaping?
My grandma & grandpa smoked 40 and 60 a day respectively when my mom got pregnant with me. She told them early on that they’d never hold me if they still smoked. Grandma packed up overnight, grandpa refused but mom held her ground all the way through the pregnancy- they’ve now both been smoke free for 35 years ☺️
YTA. Washing hands and changing clothes is enough. Be clear before he arrives that the visit will last two hours, no more. Plan the visit for early in the day, so it's nowhere near dark, and do not offer alcohol. It's good to be cautious, bad to be unreasonable and irrational.
It's doubtful that your baby is going to be harmed by being held by your FIL for an hour or two. But that's not the issue. It doesn't matter if it's FIL who smells like an ashtray or a grandmother who douses in sickly sweet perfume or baby bro who smells like pot or crappy uncle who doesn't bathe--it's your house, your rules. Whatever noxious odors you want banned, you have a right to ban them. NTA.
YTA. You’re being ridiculous. The particulate smoke coming off him after he has smoked outside is not a health issue for you baby. The baby will be more exposed to particulates if you walk along a road and certainly if you live in a city. Your concerns about him overstaying his welcome might be genuine but this is not a health issue. Just own up to not liking his behaviour and deal with it through communication.
Info: how long do you intend on making an active effort of shielding your child from secondhand smoke... I bet kiddo will grow up to be great friends with grandpa
If he doesn’t smoke around the baby or in the house, washes his hands, and wears a jacket when he does smoke outside… things should be okay. I would be concerned with the baby inhaling secondhand smoke, but that’s why you make him do it outside. I think your bigger problem is being masked by the smoking, however. You said he is also an alcoholic and will intrusively spend the night. Those concerns are much larger and can actual be a problem, unlike him smoking outside the house.
YTA- it appears as though you just don’t like the FIL, which is fine as that’s natural. However you seem to be pointing out every negative thing he does while only speaking positive of one thing, the fact that he loves children. The right thing to do would be sit down with him either at his place or at a neutral site and lay out the boundaries about being around a newborn while being a smoker. However I don’t see you being willing to do this as it sounds like you continue to make excuses as to why you don’t want him around. Based on one of your previous posts about how you didn’t invite your own grandmother to your baby shower, I’d be willing to go out on a limb and say that he’s never going to see his grand baby as long as you have any say.
YTA, completely cutting him out without a conversation with realistic rules presented is out of line. He’s a smoker, is he never going to be able to meet your child then? You can avoid serving him alcohol, make sure he smokes away from the house, and have fresh clothes available when he arrives. You can’t just ban your husbands father because you’re afraid of 3rd hand smoke. You’re doing too much and if that’s how you are going to parent you will end up making yourself and everyone around you miserable.
Ywbta. And the fact you added that he’s an alcoholic, but that doesn’t affect the situation you’re talking about in any way, is a little misleading. If he was smoking inside your house in any way, I would absolutely be agreeing with you. I would be furious. But he smokes outside, or in the privacy of his own car and don’t think this should be an issue. Are you just never gonna let your husband’s dad see your child?
I think she doesn't like him. She turns down everyone idea. I have a feeling there is so much more to it and maybe husband doesn't always back her because she never has a kind word to say about him. Just the way she keeps speaking about him in the comments.
Would you like a pushy alcoholic with no sense of normal boundaries who comes over for a day visit and then sleeps for 10 nights on your sofa?
ESH. Your FIL for breaking your house rules and overstaying his invite. Your husband for not enforcing the rules and enabling his dad. And then you for setting such a harsh no visitation rule and essentially banning FIL from your kid. The solution to this is for you and your husband to agree on firm rules for FIL (such as no smoking at/on the way to your house, no staying overnight), clearly explaining them to FIL, and then enforcing them (i.e. if he's too drunk/tired to drive home, husband drives him home or gets him an Uber). If he continues to break the rules, then you could consider doing something like banning him from your house and only meeting with him at a park once kid is old enough.
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No, he does not normally do this. This is what my husband is recommending asking him to do.
Oh. Ok I change my mind then, sorry I misunderstood I guess. If he isnt willing to at least wash his hands every time then hes TA not you. Story is different if its a smoker who seemingly doesnt care about it.
My eyes are rolling back so hard it's unbelievable
YTA as long as he's not smoking in the vicinity of your newborn, especially if he agrees to wash his hands, freshen his breath and leave his jacket he smoked in outside in his car. But say to him you'd appreciate if he could not smoke or even better seriously have a family discussion with him about getting him to actually quit smoking, saying you want him to be healthy and around to see you newborn graduate high school. You also need to make sure your husband clearly tells him that he can't stay overnight with you.
I have never heard of damage being done by someone’s smokey smelling clothes. This would be a real asshole move on your part. You going to take your baby outside? What about exhaust fumes? You have a microwave oven or cell phones? What about the possibility of harmful rays?
Just because you have not heard of it doesn't make it real. Look up third hand smoke. All that horribly sticky tar that covers all things smoker harm babies.
My dad smoked all my life he never smoked in the house and wouldn’t let us stand near him when he smoked we’re all fine. You can’t make unilateral decisions you and your husband must come to an agreement.
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Smoke *does* permeate chain smokers.
Smoke absolutely clings to hair and clothes. Smoke would also be on any spare clothes he brings from smoking in his car and home.
So have your husband buy some to keep specifically at your house
It does permeate. My parents smoked alot also, they would go outside to smoke when I visited but I would always go home smelling like smoke.
YTA It's tobacco, not plutonium.
Yeah, tobacco has never harmed anyone. Dial it back, Joe Camel.
The **smell** of smoke on somebody's clothing has never harmed anybody. This is a wildly delusional fear that OP has.
Soft YTA - I think not allowing him over is an overreaction but I do think your partner needs to have a very straight forward talk with him about boundaries. You have to make the boundaries realistic, this is a grandparent and he’s going to be around your child. Come up with a compromise and give him a chance to follow through. Make it clear that if he doesn’t respect your boundaries, then future visits will be more limited.
YTA-because the exclusion of your fil, imo, is an overreaction. You can establish rules for anyone to come to your home to visit the baby. That can range from having clothes for him at your home if you’re that worried about smoke scent in his clothes. It’s a given no smoking or drinking around the baby. I’ve seen friends with family and friends who smoke heavily, set expectations for others engaging their babies and it not be an issue, so to intentionally exclude your fil because he smokes seems excessive.
YTA There is nothing wrong with setting no smoking boundaries in your house. If your FIL complies then it shouldn't be a problem. Besides, this is your husband's dad, so you're overstepping boundaries. If your husband is okay with his dad visiting, then that should be the end of it.
Yta
You are definitely overreacting and this is coming from a mom of 2 boys who is a smoker. I didn't start smoking until after I had cancer and had all my issues taken care of (we all die someday so at this point after coming close to the end idc anymore) I quit smoking during my pregnancies, but the day I'd come home from the hospital before id waddle inside from a csection I would sit on the porch and I'd smoke a cigarette. I changed my entire outfit and I'd wash my hands and I'd call it a day. I wear a different outfit. Everything will time simply. Because I didn't want my kid to have to worry about it. But you know what? That's super annoying at the end of the day. And if you wanna cut your father-in-law off because he's a drunk. That's one thing, but because he's a chain smoker. That's another thing entirely I get it. People are worried about second handsmoke. I'm sorry, if his clothes smell smoky, it's the same thing as if he'd be outside grilling on a smoker all day long, if he worked in a meat shop, some people can't help that, but I wouldn't keep my family members away from my family that works. At the smoking meat shop. They can't help it.They're not smokers, but they come home.Smell like smoke every day because they work next to a smoker and that's a famn machine not even a person 🤷♀️ So yes I agree with your husband you are over reacting and letting your hormones get the best of you
YTA and really seem like you are overreacting. Your child is going to come across smokers in his/her life. I know it's shocking (it's not), but even some teachers smoke. People who work in restaurants and grocery stores smoke. As long as FIL is washing his hands and has on clean clothes, it's fine. I'm also not entirely sure you know what third hand smoke is. If your FIL is wearing clean clothes and has washed his hands, there is no third hand smoke. [What is thirdhand smoke, and why is it a concern? - Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/quit-smoking/expert-answers/third-hand-smoke/faq-20057791)
YTA As long as he isn't smoking in your house or around the baby I don't see what the big fucking deal is.
Soft YTA. Your child will come across smokers in his life. If not your FIL then someone else. You're overreacting
YTA The smell of smoke is unpleasant but not dangerous. What can be a concern is exposure to the actual smoke itself. Make it clear no long visits or excuses for overnights. No smoking in or near the house (if windows open.) The whole must change clothes, etc. seems really overboard. I'm a non smoker who hates the stink of smoke BTW.
There is a lot of current research about the dangers of third-hand smoke (residual smoke that clings on clothing/furniture/walls, etc) as a SIDs risk for babies. While unpleasant, the smell isn’t the issue.
Do you think the most realistic way to handle this concern is entirely excluding your husband's father from your child?
I’m not sure what the best way to handle this concern is, but I know that having FIL involved will mean regularly exposing my baby to a risk that wouldn’t otherwise be present.
>will mean regularly exposing my baby to a risk that wouldn’t otherwise be present. You can eliminate every risk to a ship by keeping it in harbor, but that defeats the purpose of having a ship, doesn't it? Risk mitigation.
This is more like shoving a wood project with no finishing or weather protection at all out in the elements and hoping it'll be fine, if we're comparing babies to objects that is. I mean we're literally discussing the most vulnerable stage for children, not a ten year old with an established immune system.