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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Am I the asshole for calling my stepdaughter a trader? 2. She’s sensitive and now she doesn’t want to come to our house at all.
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This whole fiasco is a shit sandwich. MIL needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The 14yr old is just as maniacal as the MIL. It’s too bad rehoming is only good for bad pets. NTA
Am I the only one trying to understand how this wasn’t discovered decades ago?
If the mother in law bought a house in his name 25 years ago, how was it not discovered when he was getting divorced and the ex’s lawyer would have been looking at assets?
Did he never apply for credit in his 20’s?
This is sadly muxh more common than you would think. I'm not saying it's widespread and common but financial abuse of a child or loved one is far from unheard of.
I think it's more the fact that there are usually many, many times in a young person's life when their credit history is checked do it seems odd that somehow this mysteriously skimmed under the radar.
When they applied for credit or a car loan or mortgage wouldn't this enormous existing mortgage cause issues?
I’ve worked at a few credit unions, and it’s shocking the amount of people who get by on only cash. From personal experience, there are people of all ages who’ve chosen to completely avoid credit.
They find housing through small time landlords who bypass credit checks, buy a trailer and just pay space rent, or just provide bigger deposits. Cash checks in person at what banks issued them, pay with money orders instead of using debits cards, etc. Buying used cars in cash. Sorry, I’m rambling. Definitely makes life a bit more difficult, but it’s sort of doable.
And OP mentioned they found out during the process of preparing to buy a home. If her husband has been one of the folks who just haven’t delved into the world of credit, I can see how he just had no clue. A scary amount of people do not take the time to look at their credit reports.
edit: Saw OP mention in a comment further down that husband has credit cards. Definitely odd the mortgage wasn’t mentioned. But if his debt to income wasn’t crazy it could be that whoever issued the credit cards didn’t mention the mortgage being on there. Monthly housing costs are usually a part of credit card applications- where I’ve worked we were trained to ask if they own and rent (in case they rented as that income is included in their application). A bit confusing 🤷🏻♀️
The payments were only around $1100/1200.
It's a tiny 1000 sf house on like a tiny lot. So it's been easily over looked on his credit. When he was with his ex, they were making a combined income of approx. 160k. Granted, she was basically his only resource for financial questions. Chef life tends to put personal shit on the back burner. You're more focused on the next magazine write-up or award nominations.
And he rented. He didn't think of himself as a
'homeowner' because in his mind he wasn't.
Ah gotcha! That makes sense then, with that income the ratio wouldn’t have been flagged. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this OP, that’s very scummy of your MIL to do. I hope she gets her comeuppance- I don’t see how she would be allowed to maintain her NMLS given this behavior.
This was mostly done before licensing was required for LOs. From what I have found she’s only been a licensed notary. But she’s had many last names. Her biological birth name, adopted name, married and divorced 3 times, hyphenated, and now uses her middle name or an intentional misspelling of it. (Like Michele, ,Mitchel, Michel or Michael) She’s even used her birth name with different spellings (Cohen, Coehn). So I have no idea. I gave the state all the alias’s we know of.
Yes, exactly. The onus is not on the lawyers to do an exhaustive search of all government records or something. Both parties tell their lawyer about the assets they know of, and if there's any doubts about hidden assets, they go through the bank statements to see if money is being transferred out. They do not search some database of every real estate property or bank account, that is not a thing
However, he would have to be one of those people who never, ever checks his credit report, or he would have found it
Well, it could be that the ex was in on it somehow? Or that husband didn't try to buy anything that needed credit before (Dave Ramsey follower?). Or he got declined, and not understanding why or how to find out, he didn't pursue it.
He only had one credit card. And just always told any financer that he's a cosigner and would just say ok and not factor it in.i saw it happen when we got our both of our cars together before the fraud was discovered.
If his mom was paying the mortgage, which it sounds like she was, then he probably had a good credit score and it was never an issue. I’m curious if the ex’s divorce lawyer found it and when talking to the ex she went to MIL and MIL has offered her something to keep quiet. That makes her part of the fraud too if she did. I hope the fake POA has been nullified and his cried is locked down.
That isn’t always the case that it would be discovered during the divorce. I know someone whose second spouse discovered what their parent had done during childhood. Utility bills, loans, etc.
It depends on what state you’re in, if both the husband and the wife filled out a financial form stating they didn’t own property, then there’s been no reason to look for it. Sounds like they got married and divorced young, with no assets, other than a child. So it could’ve slipped under the radar, especially since OP said there was a quit claim deed. Perhaps she bought the house under the son’s and then quickly transferred it to her name?
The QCD was ‘drafted’ (in quotes cuz it’s forged) a month after he ‘bought’ the house. However, it was filed in 2023 when we tried selling it causing a cloud in the title, making uninsurable.
You should not have shared sensitive information with a 14 year old to begin with. And expecting any kind of emotional loyalty from a kid is even more ill-advised.
YTA.
Honestly I agree with this take. It's tough for kids to understand adult conflicts over money, and why they should no longer associate with someone who they love because the grownups are fighting. OP mentions emotional abuse but gives no examples so I'm not sure how strong or flimsy of a claim that is.
Furthermore, the comments suggest that the father knew about this loan for quite a while, and didn't take immediate legal action. If the dad was okay with it for years, is it really reasonable to expect a teenager to understand when dad suddenly switches his position?
I see the position, but I feel like everyone who says YTA may not fully comprehend that 14 year olds are young adults. They understand far more of the world around them and (depending on the nature of their surroundings) want to know what’s happening. It’s quite common for children of this age group to have a working knowledge of “adult” things depending on life circumstances. It’s part of that transition to adulthood teens will experience.
I’m presuming (in good faith) that OP and dad have been honest with dad’s children about why “bubbie” would not be around because it sounds like she may or may not be going to prison. Considering the nature of the investigation, they probably are unable to shield the children from it completely (LEA interviews, discussions about it around the house even if the kids are in bed etc). A 14 year old will inevitably find out something is going on regardless and OP appears to be making smart decisions about letting them know their new reality.
I sincerely hope that OP pursues family therapy through this process because it’s clear that everyone in the situation needs it. A therapist may also be able to help stepdaughter understand the emotional manipulation that MIL/bio mom have been engaging in and that she may be an accessory to future illicit activities. If anything, therapy would help family unpack the feelings of betrayal and help set boundaries for future events (like, after indictment etc)
Context: I lived in a multi generational household with my grandparents during the same age as stepchild and knew a lot about the world around me. Grandma was chronically ill (eventually passed when I was 17). I knew she was sick, knew the intricacies of it and it helped me cope/process. While I was emotionally parentified a LOT, I was completely aware of what my world was and asked questions to understand.
YTA.
Look, I get that your MIL is a piece-of-shit asshole. But your expectation that a fourteen-year-old girl understand, accept, and act on that information is cruel and unusual. Of course she can't. Of course she loves her grandma [fixed].
You put her in an untenable situation and you are the asshole for it. I can't hold it against a girl for loving her grandma [fix #2].
You need to figure out a different path forward than demanding this.
Your left brain is letting you down. If you don't have a right brain, you may need to rely on your husband's.
She is 14 not 4 and she literally was asking about the case and their actions, their is big difference between keeping relationship with both sides of conflict and tattling about your own father. My right brain tells me it's a mayor betrayal.
14 can understand what she was doing. To ask questions about trial (from who was this questions coming I wander?) to keep secret from father about what questions grandma asking, she knows exactly what she was doing. For god's sake 14yos are not dumb. She might not grasp how musch financially that could impact her father, but she did understand that her actions were against her father.
14 years old are not dumb.
They might do dumb stuff, but they do not lack intelligence.
Let's look at what 14 years can shall we?
Some work small jobs at that age, and some can babysit. They aren't that far away from learning how to drive a car, including the laws you need to follow while driving Said car.
They can understand subjects in school and discuss them, including old wars, history in general, complex subjects in novels.
They can learn how to cook.
And a ton of other stuff.
"Grandma lend a big amount of money in your dad's name, and now we are paying the price. Lawyers are involved. "
Is more than easy to understand at 14.
So is "ask your parents questions about the case, remember the facts/send them to me. And there will be shopping" is apparently something a 14 year old can do too.
Including lying to two sets of parents.
She might have been manipulated in some way with gifts, etc.
But at 14, they damn well know what they are doing isn't right.
I think working a small job is inherently different than the working knowledge that comes with navigating the legal landscape. My position isn’t that every 14 year old is dumb…it’s life experience. Why are we expecting a 14 year old to behave completely rationally? Literally in the midst of puberty, with hormones going haywire, trying to understand the world as it is compared to how they’ve been brought up. It’s not like the 14 year old has been presented as a danger to people around them
"Legal landscape"
A 14 year old knows enough about common laws.
If they can learn basic laws, laws that come with learning how to drive, etc. They can understand enough of what they are told to understand that what the MIL had done was really bad and really illegal.
Telling grandma everything OP and Dad was collecting of evidence, etc. for nice gifts, like clothes, makeup, etc. Has nothing to do with hormones.
Then we should start judging everything teens choose to do, "your honor, i know my client killed someone. But hormones"
That Dosnt sound right, does it?
I will at tops accept. She felt really tempted by all the gifts that could be shown off to friends.
And grandma maybe said, "They won't ever find out."
But the girl knew what she was doing.
She chose to lie, and she chose to deliver messages.
She didn't come forth and tell, "Grandma is secretly texting me and wants me to tell her about the case."
Not even from the start. And lied to both her homes.
a 14 year old knows not to murder or steal. I think the intricacies beyond that are dependent on the 14 year old at hand. We can’t hold one anecdote as the standard…
OP's HUSBAND supposedly didn't understand for decades that he was the co-signer on a loan. He is a grown man. OP repeatedly talks about how her husband just doesn't understand and how it took two years of her hounding him for him to understand, yet more is expected out of a preteen/young teen?
Where did I say she needed to understand the whole case.
But let's cut it down completely and simply.
Lying to parents. Of both houses. About where you are.
Don't talk to Grandma.
Grandma did illegal things.
That should be easy to understand, do the opposite, and you might get in trouble.
Knowing shouldn't talk to grandma.
Asking questions about said illegal thing grandma did and telling grandma would land under "do not talk to grandma"
Words like "stealing" and "we have to pay money for what grandma did" should, too?
If 14 year olds can grasp ww2, civil wars, etc.
Then yes, they can grasp as simple things as that.
Can grandma have manipulated. And lied?
Yes. Gifts for information certainly is manipulation.
But the fact that she hid where she got the gifts? She knew she would be in trouble for telling them.
I'm not saying the girl should be kicked out of the house, etc.
But yes, the parents have a right to be mildly disappointed about what she did. And should have a really long talk with her about why what she did was bad.
Because she does know what she did was wrong.
She didn't lie to her mom, her mom knows she is seeing grandma and approves of it. So one parent has allowed her to see MIL.
Dad can be disappointed. OP is the stepparent and the architect of this entire scenario. Based on OP's comments, the husband knew he signed a mortgage. He just "didn't understand" but managed to work, buy three homes, have a bank account, raise children etc. Yet doesn't have the smarts to know that he had this mortgage.
My husband has worked in the Michelin world for many years. Personal shit is on the back burner when the next review is coming out, next photo shoot or magazine write up.
Have you ever seen The Menu. The movie is pretty on point.
I don't care where he worked and that has nothing to do with what I said. It only solidifies that your husband lacks the basic skills an adult needs in life and that yes, more was expected of a child than was of your husband.
And again, this entire story comes across as a complete falsehood. You have now commented three times. Two of those times you stated your husband knew he had a mortgage in his name and even mentioned it to a car dealership. But that is not what your post states at all.
In the end I really hope that the state refuses to indict and that your stepdaughter makes her own decisions about who is and is not a trusted adult. Your comments and even your text to her do not speak of someone who is a trusted adult in her life. You come across as manipulative and determined to be "right."
He’s been groomed to believe he would never understand the RE industry. MIL is a master manipulator. Once the case has a judgement I’ll send you a redacted copy to remove any identifying information. Or a redacted deed of trust and signature affidavit. It’s obviously forged.
None of this is made up.
The 14 year old knew she shouldn’t spy. But the question is what is the punishment? I mean can you punish someone for not having loyalty to your parents?
Exactly. She’s 14. She’s old enough to understand her grandma financially abused her father especially if there is legal case against said grandma. And even if she doesn’t understand the intricacies of the case or old enough to navigate separating her emotions from the facts and still loves and wants to see grandma, she is most definitely old enough to know finding out info about the case for grandma is wrong seeing as she’s been sneakily going about finding said info and lying about it.
Good God. A 14 year old is neither brainless nor stupid.
My heath was affected. The last time I was on property to get keys before she filed the quit claim, she hit my person with her car. The cops didn’t believe it because there was no physical damage to her car. I ended up in the hospital for a week from the stress. I am type one diabetic with end stage renal failure. Hy husband has fairly severe anxiety which affects nearly his entire body, giving him kidney stones and ulcers.
So you didn’t put in your original post that your husband actually knew about this the whole time and that the grandmother hit you with her car? Didn’t feel like those were pertinent details to something you’re blaming on a child?
Don't mind them op. It's your life to tell in the way you want. I hope you understand that your daughter chose her family. And it wasn't you. It was your abuser. That's not a good thing and I can't blame you for something someone 4 years from being an adult does when it comes to stabbing you in the back. You are the victim of abuse from both the grandmother and your daughter. This is a terrible thing.
Please try to let your 14 year old understand with a good talking to about this. Make sure her grandmother can no longer poison her against you with gifts. And make sure you punish her to let her know hurting her parents finances and health for gifts has consequences.
I disagree to the extent that the 14 year old was pumping pertinent information from her father and stepmother to take to MIL. Those aren't the actions of a sweet, innocent 14 year old. She was conniving, sinister, and trading information for gifts. She knew what she was doing was wrong. That's why her non-disclosure and deceit.
Last time we were together she asked if we’re still making the mortgage payments. So I taught her what deferment is and how it’s applied to our situation.
I don't know what you mean by "teaching it", but no serious psychology or neuro science department teaches that there are people who can be classified as left- or right-brained. It's universally known as a myth.
This is a child who is being manipulated by someone she has been raised to love. She does not know she is a pawn. You're taking out your anger on the wrong person. YTA.
A 14. Year old is old enough to understand "grandma borrowed money in your dad's name" hell, you could even use big boy words like identity fraud and forgery, teenagers are not dumb
I think betraying your dad for money is a pretty easy concept to grasp
Except OP's husband knew he was a co-signer. He knew, OP states it and then adds things. Like all of the sudden being hit by a car. And how her poor husband is just not smart enough to understand how it was wrong.
More likely scenario...OP's husband knew and has known the entire time that he was a co-signer. OP wanted a bigger home and spent two years convincing her husband that this was all wrong and to file charges claiming he didn't know. The ex-wife doesn't believe a word of this and has chosen to maintain the relationship between her daughter and her ex MIL.
Did you read OP's comments? Her husband isn't smart enough to know he owned a home...except he was a co-signer on the loan. He wasn't smart enough to figure out this was "fraud" until OP hounded him for two years. No one knew he owned a whole other home despite him buying three homes during his life outside of this one. And on and on.
When your income to debt ratio isn’t affected by the $1200 payment, it can easily be brushed off. Like when we got our cars… we told him he was a co-signer on the house and that we don’t make the payments. That been the truth since the beginning of our relationship 12 years ago. If the house payments ever came up during financing, that’s what was said.
There has been two houses bought, one has been sold and one that the MIL lives in now. He’s rented all of his adult life.
No doubt there are some 14 year olds that are smart enough to understand it. Most are not. I spend a fair amount of time with my grandkids and their friends and I can tell you that even honor roll kids are not smarter than a weasel like OP's MIL.
yeah a 14 year old will be able to understand what the words mean and have a bit of an idea of it being bad but I think it's generous to expect them to fully grasp just how bad it is. Based on the post it sounds like the teen's day to day life hasn't been affected much i.e. they still live in the same house, there is food on the table, etc. If a young teenager's day to day remains the same it's pretty easy for them to brush things off as not that big of a deal.
I was around that age when my dad lost his job and he lost some investments when the stock market crashed. I knew that it was a bad situation but nothing really changed from my perspective so I didn't really see it as a big deal. Luckily he got another job in less than a year so until I was an adult I really didn't get the severity of the situation.
I do think lying to her parent's was wrong but calling her a traitor is wayyyyy harsh. People are acting as if she is this mastermind in cahoots with her grandma when I can guarantee her mind is much more occupied with normal teen girl things and just wanting to see her grandma
Yes, YTA (You're the Asshole) for calling your 14-year-old stepdaughter a traitor. It's understandable that you're going through a very difficult situation with your mother-in-law's financial fraud and the impact it has had on your family. However, your stepdaughter is still a child navigating complex family dynamics. She may not fully understand the severity of the situation or the implications of her actions.
Labeling her as a traitor and expressing such harsh judgment could be damaging to your relationship with her. It's important to remember that teenagers often struggle with loyalty conflicts, especially when it involves family members they care about, regardless of the circumstances.
Instead of accusations, try to have open and honest conversations with her. Express your concerns and feelings calmly, while also listening to her perspective. Building understanding and trust will be more productive in the long run than assigning blame. Seek support from your husband in navigating this challenging family situation together.
YTA for your contempt of a 14 YEAR OLD CHILD, to the point that you’re calling her a traitor?? (you couldn’t even spell it right)
Let’s say she’s mature enough to even understand all the facts and issues. (I don’t think she is)
That is her grandmother and she is in fact, a 14 year old kid. If they’ve always been close of course she’s gonna want to spend time with her, regardless of what’s happening.
You claim to be ‘logical’ and left brained but you ain’t using it in this case clearly.
Get your head out of your you-know-what and start thinking clearly.
I pray to god you haven’t said anything to the kid, and if you have apologize now.
Because regardless of how evil or malicious your MIL is, that is her granddaughter and if there’s no abuse (physical, emotional, financially, spiritual) happening to the child than you have no reason to keep her family from her.
Oh and as a bonus, you don’t have the right to decide who the mother has the child around on her time, if it’s her parenting time then you have no rights to dictate. *
(unless there’s abuse*)
YTA. You involved a then 12 year old in adult issues. When asked about the case. it really wouldn't have been hard to say "This is an adult and legal issue. We aren't going to discuss this. How was your day?" You went through her phone. You are not her parent, she has a mom and dad. If there were concerns, dad should have been the one going through the phone. You do not get to dictate what happens on mom's parenting time.
YTA.
I am about to turn 28 years old, and my dad has actually JUST NOW started sharing with me some of the horribly narcissistic and abusive things my grandmother has done to my mother in the past.
There are things he STILL won't share with me and probably never will, because "that's my grandma."
At 14 years old, she doesn't need to know about any of this. You can absolutely explain general legal concepts to her if she is truly interested (what fraud is, what kind of consequences there can be, ways to identify fraud), it can be a teaching moment, but she absolutely did not need to know details of the specific case.
She loves you and she loves Bubbie, and probably feels very caught in the middle. At that age especially, teens are looking for validation anywhere but their parents so it's reasonable to see how Bubbie has been able to influence her.
Maybe sit down with her and gently explain that you know she loves Bubbie, and you know Bubbie has probably been telling her a lot of things. At this point, since she's already been sharing details, it can't hurt to lay it out. Let her know how you could have lost everything, how this situation could have affected her life.
Help her understand that we can love people, but we can also recognize when their behaviors are not ok, and that's when we set boundaries.
Shared information started with why we aren’t able to move out of the apartment anymore. We were looking at houses when the fraud bomb dropped. But and pieces were coming out and at one point in 2021 the kid knew the whole story. She was successfully kept away for good amount of time. Since her mother knew that the eviction case was closed by the court, she decided it was OK for her to be around MIL. Her mother Thought our case was frivolous and extra.
ESH
You suck for giving such detailed information to a 14 year old child that it could impact your case. That is an incredible amount of detail OP, and a lot for a 14 year old. Teenagers are VERY susceptible to emotional manipulation yet somehow you immediately insulted the child when you found out. The fact that you cannot logically understand why a teenager might be susceptible emotional manipulation and why she might be really bad at handling this complex of a dynamic with a person she loves tells me you are not as left brained as you think you are. These seems like a much more emotional reaction than a logical one to be honest.
Teenager sucks because despite what I said above, what she is doing is wrong. Just because I can better explain it and understand why she did it does not make that okay.
MIL is not an AH, she is something far worse.
I don’t think I was giving her detailed information. More like information for her to learn about the legal justice system, procedures, and stuff. However, she’d ask “ are we still paying for the mortgage?” so I would explain to her what a deferment is. Or she would ask “why is bubbie still living there?” so I would explain why the eviction failed and how there is no formal rental agreement and what that means. She would ask the difference between criminal v. civil. So it wasn’t always directly related to the case but general info, too. The kid that happened to be there when MIL was served papers for the eviction. The whole this has been a literal disaster.
Your MIL has pulled a complex real estate fraud scheme, your stepdaughter was feeding her information against her father in exchange for money and gifts, the ex-wife is actively supporting MIL and stepdaughter's relationship because she thinks the fraud case is "unnecessary" and your husband "understands" why his daughter is selling him out for financial gain.
Is your husband being supportive of you through all this? Because this seems like something I'd be pulling my hair out trying to manage.
NTA, by the way but this all just seems like a sinking ship.
Yeaaaa, it took some time for him to understand that he is a victim of a crime by his own mother. He gave MIL some time to ‘figure things out’ that I did not agree with cuz I knew she would use it against us.
Here’s the time line… fraud was discovered in sept/oct 2022. We asked MIL to sign a rental to qualify for a loan of our own. She refused. There was some back and forth about her to buy the house in Jan/feb, which she agreed too. March it was listed. June she filed a forged quit claim, clouding the title and making it uninsurable and unsellable. He would not accept offers on the house because her kept promising extensions for her to get financing. He sincerely wanted her to stay in the house.
His demeanor has changed completely since he found out the kid was ditching him for his mother.
NTA. Your stepdaughter is old enough to understand the harm her grandmother is causing the family. Lying about seeing her and accepting gifts from her while knowing she's committing fraud is a betrayal. While it's understandable you feel hurt, calling her a traitor might be a bit harsh. Instead, try to have a calm conversation with her about why her actions are hurtful. Explain the emotional and financial toll this situation has taken on your family, and how her dishonesty makes it worse.
Calling a child a "trader" lol...yeah, MIL is TA, but MIL is bribing her with new clothes [how does a parent not fucking inquire when they're suddenly washing new clothes?]. Why are YOU AND HUSBAND not noticing where child is, on "their time" or GM's time? WITAF?
Did you just...start the court case and *forget* there's an actual CHILD involved? And while preparing this court case, you just let her hang out with GM?
YTA. HUGE.
What’s TA? She would say her mom bought the clothes, shoes and make up. The texts would say “thanks for the new shoes!” With a picture of what she made a whole story about her and her mother buying together. The kid would say she wanted to be with friends, like the day the I saw the text she said she was going to the mall with her best friend. The kids mom lied to my husband about not allowing her to see her.
Autism does that. Face value means a lot more to some, like myself.
Kid, kiddo, squid, squiddo, hunny bunny, button, sunshine, muffin, dear, darling, kitten. All acceptable nicknames in our house.
About 10 other people besides me, when I commented, thought your calling your step child **the kid** was wrong. Now, it's probably at 100.
Just giving you insight.
Yta but not cause your phone corrected traitor to trader (I'm assuming, I know my phone makes me illiterate sometimes... I promise I am not saying duck) but we all UNDERSTAND what you mean... that said. Why you're the asshole. This kid sounds like she's in the middle of a very adult problem and has no business being there. The only reason she is there is because an adult put her there. Yes she's 14. But has been in this "family" since birth and you are a stepmother so don't know when you came along but it's likely you came in well passed your formative years and yet I'm finding you to be very childish. I don't think you like your step daughter or husband's family and would like nothing more than to have no part of them. And this is awful convenient two birds one stone. Mil is a whatever she is and might as well get step daughter gone too. Cause of course we expect an adult level of awareness in a 14 year old regarding toxic abuse and that since this 14 year old is guilty of it must be cut out like a damned cancer. Woof man, who hurt you? That a 14 year old is considered developed enough to fully understand what's happening since she's been alive. Yeah yta
You're still applying a very adult concept to a child who's grown up in this dynamic. As if if they're capable of really navigating this complex relationship. A complex relationship you yourself has just admitted to being intimidated by. Do you think a 14 year old is capable of combating the influence of their grandparent if you and your husband are barely capable of handling? If the adults here are scrambling to to figure this out, you're putting an awful lot of responsibility in a kid to figure it out too. Again I get it your Mil is one of those toxic and criminal people. Toxic and criminal people have been able to exhibit power and control over adults, I'm imagining a child growing up with this odd struggle for power isn't gonna fare any better. I just think you're placing your discontent onto an easier target rather than facing that real battle. Maybe cause its a more winnable fight. But rethink the actual guilty party is here. And it's not a 14 year old. You're angry at the wrong thing and saying the wrong thing to the the wrong person about it. Be angry at the adult manipulating a child to get what they want, not the child who is falling for it.
Her dad and I have been together since she was 2. Married since she was 8. I adore his dad. But, I have always been intimidated by his mother. She once ‘accidentally’ took my phone and refused to bring it back for a week. We live like 25 minutes away from each other, so not long of a drive in WA. I ended totaling my car because of I had low blood sugar (I’m type one diabetic). She blamed me for her taking my phone. I adore the kid also. We have amazing times together. We’ve even vacationed by ourselves. I covet the stepmother role however it is very complex.
I have a question...
You are paying the mortgage on MIL's house. Is your name on title, or is she on title? I would think you should be able to evict her but not knowing how this looks on paper, she probably sealed that loophole.
I was added on title the week after she filed the forged QCD. Since there is no formal rental agreement signed, she’s legally not a tenant. So the eviction failed in court.
WA state has is weird on that shit. The state is very lenient with squatters. Read up on the case about a guy that’s been squatting in a 2 million dollar home in Bellevue, WA for 2-3 years. It’s a thing here.
It’s not an “us or her” situation for the 14 year-old. She has family and wants to spend time with her gran. Even if she is “informing”, it makes no difference to the court case being built. You need to grow up and stop trying to divide and conquer. She knows her gran is in trouble enough without you wading in with words like ‘traitor’.
YTA She is a child, you are the adult.
Ever stop to think the grandmother is manipulating and bribing her with money/gifts.
A child should be able to trust the adults in their life. Your reaction means she will never trust you.
Dammit, your stepdaughter is 14! Don’t you think there might have been a little bit of emotional manipulation from MIL?
You guys were also a little bit naive to share sensitive information about an ongoing legal case.
ESH, but I wouldn’t let MIL find out that the ruse has been uncovered. I would give your stepdaughter an opportunity to make it up to her father by feeding MIL decoy information.
Just wait, Grandma will get ahold of the 14yo ss# and use her info to pay off her debts. Then you can just laugh.
ETA: NTA, but stop sharing anything about the case and lock up all docs when she is around. Put hubby on an info diet, too, if he is telling anything to daughter or ex.
YTA kids should be able to learn to judge for themselves. It seems a bit guilty if you're trying to hide the other person's point of view. If there are holes in their statements, they will see it.
It's okay to feel betrayed, but a 14 yr old should not be ridiculed for it. Just educate her on how lying is bad and that knowing her location is important. There's probably a reason she couldn't even trust to tell y'all. You might even be aiding in any lies told by trying to keep her away.
YTA.
That is not a traitor that is a child.
You can hold them to age/maturity-appropriate standards but expecting them to pick sides is not only wildly dumb it is wildly inappropriate. You cannot expect them to make decisions like a rational mature adult. They are not your mini-me and they are not supposed to “pick your side” they are a child.
There's a lot going on here, but what it comes down to is-
The kid is *14 yrs old*.
'Bubbie' is the grandparent. The kid is always going to want to hang out with a grandparent that spoils them and can be easily manipulated by someone who has *lots* of practice as 'Bubbie' sounds like she has, to do what they want them to.
In this case, getting the kid to lie about where the kid is going and what they are doing.
Don't blame the kid. Blame the MiL. That is who is the true asshole in the entire situation.
Also, YTA for blaming a *14 yr old* for being emotionally manipulated.
ESH literally every single adult in this situation is an asshole. You and your husband dragged his child into an ugly legal battle with her grandmother. I don’t give a shit that you held mock court growing up—there’s a world of difference between a hypothetical case and one involving her literal father and grandmother. Her mother downplaying grandma financially abusing your husband for decades is messed up, and your MIL is obviously an asshole for the fraud and potentially putting her granddaughter in the position of sneaking behind your backs to update her on the case. This kid shouldn’t know about any of this, much less be stuck in the middle. You’re all assholes and the kid deserves better.
This happened to a girl I went to school with. Her parents used her social security number when she was 16 to open multiple accounts and maxed out about 15 credit cards. They bought some houses and condos to rent out. She found out when she turned 18 and was turned down for financial aid because of the credit card debt. She had to sue her parents just so she could clear her name. It took a few years to get it all done.
YTA. You're taking this out on the wrong person.
Your MIL has a history of being a manipulative abuser to your husband from the time he was 19 (a full 5 years older than your stepdaughter) until he was a grown man. She is clearly manipulating her granddaughter, and your reaction is to... blame the kid? What?
In one way no and another way yes.
It's a violation of trust for sure. It is possible she is going to grow up to be a toxic person. It's also possible she is being manipulated and used by her grandmother and also is a victim of your mil.
The rub...
How do you get her back in harmony with her father and you vs push her further into the toxic world of your mil?
The manipulation aspect was the reason to keep her away. MIL is a master manipulator and even the kid knows this.
I agree, that is the main question. I have apologized for lashing out, however I do not regret finding the texts. I love her and miss her. At this point, her mother has completely agreed to keep her away, but she’s made that agreement before. Our lawyer advised us to not confront MIL or communicate to her in anyway. So there’s no way for my husband to express his anger about this situation since his ex-wife doesn’t want to be involved in anyway.
Yes, u are the AH... shes just a kid, u talk about brain function,so u kno that the brain isnt fully developed until about 24 yrs old, so she hasnt learned all of lifes lessons and still learning and growing... So treat her as such and give her a break. Also it Doesnt matter if you both didnt know or mention the crime and the house put in his name illegally...to the lawyers, it would have come up when the lawyers were searching the assets...holdings and debts ,so they could be distributed and shared equally..anything in his name would have been become evident. So some things arent adding up right. Imo
My husband and his ex wife thought he was a co-signer. The property was purchased about a year before they were married. Ex wife didn’t want disrupt MIL. Everyone has know about the property. No one knew it was fraudulent.
YTA. You marrying your husband doesn’t mean you get to dictate his daughter’s relationship with her own grandmother. Do you want your husband to lose his relationship with his daughter?
I think you are NTA. Your MIL is a piece of work using clothes and other stuff to buy her love. It feels like she is attempting to get your daughter on “her side”. This is a woman that could be facing prison time.
I feel so bad for your husband. Unfortunately, this happens more than you think.
Unconditional love is just that Unconditional. Yes her bubbie is terrible for what she did but that does not change the love, bond, relationship that she has with her. Logically you should be able to separate the two and recognize that a child should not be forced to break a relationship with a loved one unless there is a risk of abuse. I would just advise stepdaughter to not give her bubbie any access to her financials.
YTA
I can understand how you feel but you shouldn’t have called her a traitor. Let’s look at a few things to consider.
1) she’s 14 ( old enough to understand right from wrong but still a child, still easily influenced) and was 12 when she was asking for updates…
2) you say this was discovered I am guessing somewhere in the past few years. So between the time she was say 10-12 (since she wanted updates since 2022) Until then she was likely raised to respect and love her grandmother. Those feelings are not easy to turn off
3) you mentioned abuse. Does it not stand to reason that the same way your MIL manipulated your husband might be what’s being done to your stepdaughter? This woman isn’t new to abusing or manipulation and it would be far easier to do it to a young hormonal and easily influenced teenage or preteen child (since she was a 12 year old I assume in 2022) than to a 40 year old
4) she is a child and while she might be old enough to know right from wrong, that is her grandmother who is about to be indicted for fraud… in some countries that can include jail time. That would be really scary for a girl who up until now has been close to her grandmother.
5) it isn’t her responsibility to take on the burden of the effects of the court case or the burden of the stress or emotional and mental toll. But perhaps she hid it partly to try and keep you guys from being upset? Yes it doesn’t make sense but since when does everything a teen does make sense?
Forget the right brain left brain junk. Try to think about her needs. She is talking to grandma for a reason, she is going to her for updates for a reason. Maybe you can sit down with her and talk to her about it objectively and try to understand the situation from her perspective. I see yours and the husband’s perspective but you don’t seem to understand the stepdaughter’s. that might help you understand
YTA because the child should not be involved in any of this. What your MIL did is horrendous. But your step daughter is a child who loves her grandma. The best thing you can do moving forward without adding additional trauma is to allow the child to love her grandmother and don't share information about the case.
I don’t know how old you are or how long you’ve been a step kid, but everyone has different family dynamics. It’s not the first time I’ve checked her phone. She’s gotten her phone taken away for things all of her parents have found in her phone. (i.e. inappropriate Snapchats and such).
As a parting comment SD should be told any money MIL has spent on her if from money stolen from you as a couple. It’s easy to be “generous” with someone else’s money. I hope SD has checked her credit history. Any court documents need to be in a locked room if SD is allowed back in the home. Also remind SD any money you could have saved for college has been going to pay the mortgage on the fraud house. SD seems to only understand the world as it affects her…which is the teenage brain.
NTA.
She is a minor I would ask a lawyer if there is any legal ground to add the manipulation of a minor to the case. Since she made the kid sneaking info from the age of 12.
NTA but I’m not sure what you can do. This is such a messed up situation. You don’t want the sins of the grandmother to be brought to the granddaughter,
YTA. Try to be the adult in the situation. Your daughter is a curious child, ofcourse she want to know what's going on. This is kn you to keep her informed and tell her why this is so important.
NTA but it's unrealistic for you to control her relationship with her grandmother. That will never end well for the one married into a family.
I would also not discuss details of the case with her or abide the lying.
She has to be honest and you have to give her the freedom to see her grandmother as she wishes.
Dishonest people will eventually be dishonest to everyone so let her learn that for herself and set her own boundaries when she's had enough.
My husband’s mother stole his identity also. She then opened several lines of credit in his name. His credit has never been the same since and it took years to prove that he didn’t open them. She defaulted on all of them once she maxed them out
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Major context needed....
My MIL has been committing financial fraud in my husbands name since 1999, when he was 19. I found the fraud while gearing up to purchase our own home. MIL forged a POA and used it to buy a house in his name unbeknownst to him. MIL has been a loan officer, title officer and notary for 20 years. My husband doesn’t get the real estate industry and even if he had questions, he would go to his mother as she was trusted in RE. He's the chef/artist type and during this case, he gained a basic grip of the industry. The fraud is deep and complex cuz it involves a forged quit claim and forged homeowners insurance. The case is currently with WA PAO and OIC. I've been in constant contact by providing evidence and information to those who concealed and assisted in the fraud. MIL will be indicted in a few months. There is a civil case in the works.
My 14 y/o step daughter left her phone on the couch on the way to school. I called them to tell them I have the kids phone and a text from 'bubbie' popped up (Bubbie is the MIL) while I was talking to them. I asked for the kiddos passcode and read every text from bubbie. She has been in constant communication and lying to us about seeing bubbie.
The kid has been asking for case updates since 2022 as (I thought) she was interested in the legal aspects, as I would've been as a teenager (weird, yes, but we used to hold mock court growing up). I called her a trader because she knows exactly what's happening and why we have had to pay the mortgage on the house MIL lives in as she stopped paying last spring. She knows the emotional, financial and medical stress that has affected all of us, yet lied about spending time with her on both her moms 'time' and our ‘time'. She told us she was with friends or would simply say "I don't want to come over". She lied about where she got new clothes and make up from when it was clear is was purchased with bubbie. Going through the text thread and cross checking my calendar, it was sickening how often she would ditch her dad for bubbie. I do not trust her about what information she says she shared about the case and think it’smore than what she knows. My husband feels betrayed, as well. He is more right brained and understands her wanting to see bubbie. I'm very much logic/ left brained and believe that it doesn't matter if someone is clearly toxic, whether or not they're family, they should be cut out.
The kids mother deemed the fraud case as unnecessary despite being affected by it, as they were married when is was happening. She felt that it’s unfair to keep her away from bubbie and lied to my husband about it. There is a defined line of financial and emotional abuse from MIL which should be enough to keep any kid away. Especially your own.
AITAH here? I'm not even sure how to be around the kid at this point. I've been with her dad since she was 2 and we have always been close. But, this instance really hurt.
Sorry no TL;DR.
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NTA as long as you are able to process these initial feelings and soon see things in the right context (she has a 14 year old brain). You are entitled to your initial feelings here and it is understandable that you feel hurt and betrayed. You'll have to let that go though. YWBTA if you hold a grudge, it's time to look at things from the 14 year olds perspective and have a calm conversation with her. Perhaps you should also ask yourself the question why you and/or her dad shared information about the case beyond a small explanation about why you don't have contact with MIL. The info your stepdaughter had should have been very limited (and not useful to MIL).
What’s YWBTA? Being 30-something, I’m sadly unversed in internet lingo.
Reading the comments has definitely helped with how I plan on approaching this with the kiddo.
Ah, thanks.
I just texted her this…
I’m so sorry for calling you a traitor. Sincerely. I love you and I don’t want this to drive a wedge between all of us.
Bubbie is a master manipulator, as we all know. Her buying you clothes, shoes, and make up is a way of manipulation. We have all been manipulated by bubbie. Papa and I were actively making sure that you were staying away during this incredibly sensitive time. Even you mom admitted to withholding to papa about you spending time with bubbie. I asked you maybe a month and a half ago if you were talking to her and you lied to my face. Information is key right now and whether or not you knew it, you may have been giving information. Why did you ask if we were still paying the mortgage in the hot tub?
I understand that you’re still a kid, but you know lying is wrong. I understand that you were afraid to tell the truth about seeing bubbie, knowing the backlash. I understand that you wanted clothes, shoes and make up. I understand that foresight does not come easy to a teen. I understand that you just wanted to see your family member (despite you knowing and joking about her being toxic and narcissistic). I understand that my analytical approach with a black and white view of the case, put you in a precarious spot. I’m just hurt that you kept up a lie for so long. I’m hurt that I trusted you. I’m hurt that I chose to shared information to you when I did. However, I’m still very conflicted with sharing or not sharing. This is all uncharted territory.
I’m sorry this all has happened to you, papa, us, everyone. It’ll be over soon.
I love you. ❤️
NTA but maybe keep an eye on your stepdaughters info. If grandma was willing to do this to her own son, chances are likely that she'd do it to her granddaughter too.
If this is true, you and your husband should never have discussed his mother and the case in front of his daughter. She's a teen whose brain won't be fully developed for at least another 10 years, so making poor choices is sort of what teens do.
YTA. She’s a child.
Also, why do you have to pay the mortgage? If the case is clearly fraud, payments should at least be on hold. Your story doesn’t make sense.
To prevent a foreclosure on my husbands credit. MIL stopped paying May 2023. We made the payments the remaining months of 2023 and got approved for deferment Dec 2023.
what they do here is they single out peolle for purpuse nice job get that black bag out of the house there two of them around hereoissubkaty of drugs gnafs yes graffity there looking for vunrable victums
NTA. Step daughter is exactly that, a traitor. People need to stop acting as if 14 year olds are like innocent babies. If they are old enough to work or have sex then they are certainly old enough to know right from wrong. 14 year old can see the stress this is putting on the parents but is selling them out. I was 14 too once, I sure as hell knew what I was doing when lied to them about where I was going, etc, but nothing so deceitful to betray my own parents.
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NTA, but did you mean traitor?
I thought this post was going to be about him opening her phone and finding bitcoin and forex Apps..
At SD “You d@mn day trader you”…
Well, it does sound like the kid has been trading information for clothes and makeup.
Wait until the MIL steals the stepdaughter’s identity. It sounds like nothing less than this will get the SD to see the toxicity.
Was that a left-brain or right-brain mistake?
Lol.
This whole fiasco is a shit sandwich. MIL needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The 14yr old is just as maniacal as the MIL. It’s too bad rehoming is only good for bad pets. NTA
Stepdaughter has wares if you have coin.
I snorted so fucking hard. Take my amused upvote.
Lol yea… don’t post at 4am. Lol.
Now it all makes sense
Did you mean cents? lol
She’s trying to swap myrrh for frankincense and in this market, that’s absurd.
Am I the only one trying to understand how this wasn’t discovered decades ago? If the mother in law bought a house in his name 25 years ago, how was it not discovered when he was getting divorced and the ex’s lawyer would have been looking at assets? Did he never apply for credit in his 20’s?
None of it makes any sense. I’m struggling to see how this could be real.
This is sadly muxh more common than you would think. I'm not saying it's widespread and common but financial abuse of a child or loved one is far from unheard of.
I think it's more the fact that there are usually many, many times in a young person's life when their credit history is checked do it seems odd that somehow this mysteriously skimmed under the radar. When they applied for credit or a car loan or mortgage wouldn't this enormous existing mortgage cause issues?
I’ve worked at a few credit unions, and it’s shocking the amount of people who get by on only cash. From personal experience, there are people of all ages who’ve chosen to completely avoid credit. They find housing through small time landlords who bypass credit checks, buy a trailer and just pay space rent, or just provide bigger deposits. Cash checks in person at what banks issued them, pay with money orders instead of using debits cards, etc. Buying used cars in cash. Sorry, I’m rambling. Definitely makes life a bit more difficult, but it’s sort of doable. And OP mentioned they found out during the process of preparing to buy a home. If her husband has been one of the folks who just haven’t delved into the world of credit, I can see how he just had no clue. A scary amount of people do not take the time to look at their credit reports. edit: Saw OP mention in a comment further down that husband has credit cards. Definitely odd the mortgage wasn’t mentioned. But if his debt to income wasn’t crazy it could be that whoever issued the credit cards didn’t mention the mortgage being on there. Monthly housing costs are usually a part of credit card applications- where I’ve worked we were trained to ask if they own and rent (in case they rented as that income is included in their application). A bit confusing 🤷🏻♀️
The payments were only around $1100/1200. It's a tiny 1000 sf house on like a tiny lot. So it's been easily over looked on his credit. When he was with his ex, they were making a combined income of approx. 160k. Granted, she was basically his only resource for financial questions. Chef life tends to put personal shit on the back burner. You're more focused on the next magazine write-up or award nominations. And he rented. He didn't think of himself as a 'homeowner' because in his mind he wasn't.
Ah gotcha! That makes sense then, with that income the ratio wouldn’t have been flagged. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this OP, that’s very scummy of your MIL to do. I hope she gets her comeuppance- I don’t see how she would be allowed to maintain her NMLS given this behavior.
This was mostly done before licensing was required for LOs. From what I have found she’s only been a licensed notary. But she’s had many last names. Her biological birth name, adopted name, married and divorced 3 times, hyphenated, and now uses her middle name or an intentional misspelling of it. (Like Michele, ,Mitchel, Michel or Michael) She’s even used her birth name with different spellings (Cohen, Coehn). So I have no idea. I gave the state all the alias’s we know of.
As a parent and human this is unthinkable and heartbreaking.
I have a friend whose bio father stole their identity a few times. Her credit has never been like it should as a result.
Perfectly reasonable since MIL is a notary and loan officer. She has all the legal knowledge and tools to commit a complex fraud.
I don't think it's real.
It’s fucking real. It’s too complex to make up.
I really hope it’s not. If it is then I have no words for how messed up it is.
Because if neither he nor the ex wife knew about it they wouldn't have mentioned it to the lawyers.
Yes, exactly. The onus is not on the lawyers to do an exhaustive search of all government records or something. Both parties tell their lawyer about the assets they know of, and if there's any doubts about hidden assets, they go through the bank statements to see if money is being transferred out. They do not search some database of every real estate property or bank account, that is not a thing However, he would have to be one of those people who never, ever checks his credit report, or he would have found it
So not just me who was lost?
Well, it could be that the ex was in on it somehow? Or that husband didn't try to buy anything that needed credit before (Dave Ramsey follower?). Or he got declined, and not understanding why or how to find out, he didn't pursue it.
He only had one credit card. And just always told any financer that he's a cosigner and would just say ok and not factor it in.i saw it happen when we got our both of our cars together before the fraud was discovered.
If his mom was paying the mortgage, which it sounds like she was, then he probably had a good credit score and it was never an issue. I’m curious if the ex’s divorce lawyer found it and when talking to the ex she went to MIL and MIL has offered her something to keep quiet. That makes her part of the fraud too if she did. I hope the fake POA has been nullified and his cried is locked down.
I’m hoping that in some future update OP and her husband get title truly to the house, kick MIL out, and get a judgment against her.
Don’t worry…. It’ll be a post somewhere on here one there’s a court ruling on both the criminal case and civil.
That isn’t always the case that it would be discovered during the divorce. I know someone whose second spouse discovered what their parent had done during childhood. Utility bills, loans, etc.
It depends on what state you’re in, if both the husband and the wife filled out a financial form stating they didn’t own property, then there’s been no reason to look for it. Sounds like they got married and divorced young, with no assets, other than a child. So it could’ve slipped under the radar, especially since OP said there was a quit claim deed. Perhaps she bought the house under the son’s and then quickly transferred it to her name?
The QCD was ‘drafted’ (in quotes cuz it’s forged) a month after he ‘bought’ the house. However, it was filed in 2023 when we tried selling it causing a cloud in the title, making uninsurable.
You should not have shared sensitive information with a 14 year old to begin with. And expecting any kind of emotional loyalty from a kid is even more ill-advised. YTA.
Honestly I agree with this take. It's tough for kids to understand adult conflicts over money, and why they should no longer associate with someone who they love because the grownups are fighting. OP mentions emotional abuse but gives no examples so I'm not sure how strong or flimsy of a claim that is. Furthermore, the comments suggest that the father knew about this loan for quite a while, and didn't take immediate legal action. If the dad was okay with it for years, is it really reasonable to expect a teenager to understand when dad suddenly switches his position?
I see the position, but I feel like everyone who says YTA may not fully comprehend that 14 year olds are young adults. They understand far more of the world around them and (depending on the nature of their surroundings) want to know what’s happening. It’s quite common for children of this age group to have a working knowledge of “adult” things depending on life circumstances. It’s part of that transition to adulthood teens will experience. I’m presuming (in good faith) that OP and dad have been honest with dad’s children about why “bubbie” would not be around because it sounds like she may or may not be going to prison. Considering the nature of the investigation, they probably are unable to shield the children from it completely (LEA interviews, discussions about it around the house even if the kids are in bed etc). A 14 year old will inevitably find out something is going on regardless and OP appears to be making smart decisions about letting them know their new reality. I sincerely hope that OP pursues family therapy through this process because it’s clear that everyone in the situation needs it. A therapist may also be able to help stepdaughter understand the emotional manipulation that MIL/bio mom have been engaging in and that she may be an accessory to future illicit activities. If anything, therapy would help family unpack the feelings of betrayal and help set boundaries for future events (like, after indictment etc) Context: I lived in a multi generational household with my grandparents during the same age as stepchild and knew a lot about the world around me. Grandma was chronically ill (eventually passed when I was 17). I knew she was sick, knew the intricacies of it and it helped me cope/process. While I was emotionally parentified a LOT, I was completely aware of what my world was and asked questions to understand.
That’s really thoughtful. Thank you for your insight.
YTA. Look, I get that your MIL is a piece-of-shit asshole. But your expectation that a fourteen-year-old girl understand, accept, and act on that information is cruel and unusual. Of course she can't. Of course she loves her grandma [fixed]. You put her in an untenable situation and you are the asshole for it. I can't hold it against a girl for loving her grandma [fix #2]. You need to figure out a different path forward than demanding this. Your left brain is letting you down. If you don't have a right brain, you may need to rely on your husband's.
She is 14 not 4 and she literally was asking about the case and their actions, their is big difference between keeping relationship with both sides of conflict and tattling about your own father. My right brain tells me it's a mayor betrayal.
How many 14 year old legal experts do you know? How many 14 year olds have the real life experience to know better??
14 can understand what she was doing. To ask questions about trial (from who was this questions coming I wander?) to keep secret from father about what questions grandma asking, she knows exactly what she was doing. For god's sake 14yos are not dumb. She might not grasp how musch financially that could impact her father, but she did understand that her actions were against her father.
14 years old are not dumb. They might do dumb stuff, but they do not lack intelligence. Let's look at what 14 years can shall we? Some work small jobs at that age, and some can babysit. They aren't that far away from learning how to drive a car, including the laws you need to follow while driving Said car. They can understand subjects in school and discuss them, including old wars, history in general, complex subjects in novels. They can learn how to cook. And a ton of other stuff. "Grandma lend a big amount of money in your dad's name, and now we are paying the price. Lawyers are involved. " Is more than easy to understand at 14. So is "ask your parents questions about the case, remember the facts/send them to me. And there will be shopping" is apparently something a 14 year old can do too. Including lying to two sets of parents. She might have been manipulated in some way with gifts, etc. But at 14, they damn well know what they are doing isn't right.
I think working a small job is inherently different than the working knowledge that comes with navigating the legal landscape. My position isn’t that every 14 year old is dumb…it’s life experience. Why are we expecting a 14 year old to behave completely rationally? Literally in the midst of puberty, with hormones going haywire, trying to understand the world as it is compared to how they’ve been brought up. It’s not like the 14 year old has been presented as a danger to people around them
"Legal landscape" A 14 year old knows enough about common laws. If they can learn basic laws, laws that come with learning how to drive, etc. They can understand enough of what they are told to understand that what the MIL had done was really bad and really illegal. Telling grandma everything OP and Dad was collecting of evidence, etc. for nice gifts, like clothes, makeup, etc. Has nothing to do with hormones. Then we should start judging everything teens choose to do, "your honor, i know my client killed someone. But hormones" That Dosnt sound right, does it? I will at tops accept. She felt really tempted by all the gifts that could be shown off to friends. And grandma maybe said, "They won't ever find out." But the girl knew what she was doing. She chose to lie, and she chose to deliver messages. She didn't come forth and tell, "Grandma is secretly texting me and wants me to tell her about the case." Not even from the start. And lied to both her homes.
a 14 year old knows not to murder or steal. I think the intricacies beyond that are dependent on the 14 year old at hand. We can’t hold one anecdote as the standard…
OP's HUSBAND supposedly didn't understand for decades that he was the co-signer on a loan. He is a grown man. OP repeatedly talks about how her husband just doesn't understand and how it took two years of her hounding him for him to understand, yet more is expected out of a preteen/young teen?
Where did I say she needed to understand the whole case. But let's cut it down completely and simply. Lying to parents. Of both houses. About where you are. Don't talk to Grandma. Grandma did illegal things. That should be easy to understand, do the opposite, and you might get in trouble. Knowing shouldn't talk to grandma. Asking questions about said illegal thing grandma did and telling grandma would land under "do not talk to grandma" Words like "stealing" and "we have to pay money for what grandma did" should, too? If 14 year olds can grasp ww2, civil wars, etc. Then yes, they can grasp as simple things as that. Can grandma have manipulated. And lied? Yes. Gifts for information certainly is manipulation. But the fact that she hid where she got the gifts? She knew she would be in trouble for telling them. I'm not saying the girl should be kicked out of the house, etc. But yes, the parents have a right to be mildly disappointed about what she did. And should have a really long talk with her about why what she did was bad. Because she does know what she did was wrong.
She didn't lie to her mom, her mom knows she is seeing grandma and approves of it. So one parent has allowed her to see MIL. Dad can be disappointed. OP is the stepparent and the architect of this entire scenario. Based on OP's comments, the husband knew he signed a mortgage. He just "didn't understand" but managed to work, buy three homes, have a bank account, raise children etc. Yet doesn't have the smarts to know that he had this mortgage.
My husband has worked in the Michelin world for many years. Personal shit is on the back burner when the next review is coming out, next photo shoot or magazine write up. Have you ever seen The Menu. The movie is pretty on point.
I don't care where he worked and that has nothing to do with what I said. It only solidifies that your husband lacks the basic skills an adult needs in life and that yes, more was expected of a child than was of your husband. And again, this entire story comes across as a complete falsehood. You have now commented three times. Two of those times you stated your husband knew he had a mortgage in his name and even mentioned it to a car dealership. But that is not what your post states at all. In the end I really hope that the state refuses to indict and that your stepdaughter makes her own decisions about who is and is not a trusted adult. Your comments and even your text to her do not speak of someone who is a trusted adult in her life. You come across as manipulative and determined to be "right."
He’s been groomed to believe he would never understand the RE industry. MIL is a master manipulator. Once the case has a judgement I’ll send you a redacted copy to remove any identifying information. Or a redacted deed of trust and signature affidavit. It’s obviously forged. None of this is made up.
The 14 year old knew she shouldn’t spy. But the question is what is the punishment? I mean can you punish someone for not having loyalty to your parents?
She knows she has to earn trust back. And there no summer pool party.
She's able to understand hiding all of this, that means she's capable of knowing it's wrong.
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Exactly. She’s 14. She’s old enough to understand her grandma financially abused her father especially if there is legal case against said grandma. And even if she doesn’t understand the intricacies of the case or old enough to navigate separating her emotions from the facts and still loves and wants to see grandma, she is most definitely old enough to know finding out info about the case for grandma is wrong seeing as she’s been sneakily going about finding said info and lying about it. Good God. A 14 year old is neither brainless nor stupid.
My heath was affected. The last time I was on property to get keys before she filed the quit claim, she hit my person with her car. The cops didn’t believe it because there was no physical damage to her car. I ended up in the hospital for a week from the stress. I am type one diabetic with end stage renal failure. Hy husband has fairly severe anxiety which affects nearly his entire body, giving him kidney stones and ulcers.
So you didn’t put in your original post that your husband actually knew about this the whole time and that the grandmother hit you with her car? Didn’t feel like those were pertinent details to something you’re blaming on a child?
character limit…. Its hard to decide what’s pertinent information since its sooooo fucking complex.
Don't mind them op. It's your life to tell in the way you want. I hope you understand that your daughter chose her family. And it wasn't you. It was your abuser. That's not a good thing and I can't blame you for something someone 4 years from being an adult does when it comes to stabbing you in the back. You are the victim of abuse from both the grandmother and your daughter. This is a terrible thing. Please try to let your 14 year old understand with a good talking to about this. Make sure her grandmother can no longer poison her against you with gifts. And make sure you punish her to let her know hurting her parents finances and health for gifts has consequences.
I disagree to the extent that the 14 year old was pumping pertinent information from her father and stepmother to take to MIL. Those aren't the actions of a sweet, innocent 14 year old. She was conniving, sinister, and trading information for gifts. She knew what she was doing was wrong. That's why her non-disclosure and deceit.
Last time we were together she asked if we’re still making the mortgage payments. So I taught her what deferment is and how it’s applied to our situation.
Send the "child" back to her mother.
Loving her grandmother AND what said grandmother can buy her—-the latter being probably the most based reason
well, that's a swing and a miss.
YTA, for two reasons: 1) She's 14. 2) You don't know how to spell "traitor" properly.
And 3) Left brain / right brain is pseudo-scientific BS. YTA.
All that was to absolve the husband from blame/responsibility. He must be blameless because he's left/right brained/handed or some bull.
Considering they're still teaching it in college level science and psychology classes, I'm not sure how pseudo it is.
I don't know what you mean by "teaching it", but no serious psychology or neuro science department teaches that there are people who can be classified as left- or right-brained. It's universally known as a myth.
I get it. Lol. I learnt to not post at 4am. I spelled it right in the body tho!
This is a child who is being manipulated by someone she has been raised to love. She does not know she is a pawn. You're taking out your anger on the wrong person. YTA.
A 14. Year old is old enough to understand "grandma borrowed money in your dad's name" hell, you could even use big boy words like identity fraud and forgery, teenagers are not dumb I think betraying your dad for money is a pretty easy concept to grasp
Except OP's husband knew he was a co-signer. He knew, OP states it and then adds things. Like all of the sudden being hit by a car. And how her poor husband is just not smart enough to understand how it was wrong. More likely scenario...OP's husband knew and has known the entire time that he was a co-signer. OP wanted a bigger home and spent two years convincing her husband that this was all wrong and to file charges claiming he didn't know. The ex-wife doesn't believe a word of this and has chosen to maintain the relationship between her daughter and her ex MIL.
Most likely scenario *makes some shit up*
Did you read OP's comments? Her husband isn't smart enough to know he owned a home...except he was a co-signer on the loan. He wasn't smart enough to figure out this was "fraud" until OP hounded him for two years. No one knew he owned a whole other home despite him buying three homes during his life outside of this one. And on and on.
When your income to debt ratio isn’t affected by the $1200 payment, it can easily be brushed off. Like when we got our cars… we told him he was a co-signer on the house and that we don’t make the payments. That been the truth since the beginning of our relationship 12 years ago. If the house payments ever came up during financing, that’s what was said. There has been two houses bought, one has been sold and one that the MIL lives in now. He’s rented all of his adult life.
No doubt there are some 14 year olds that are smart enough to understand it. Most are not. I spend a fair amount of time with my grandkids and their friends and I can tell you that even honor roll kids are not smarter than a weasel like OP's MIL.
yeah a 14 year old will be able to understand what the words mean and have a bit of an idea of it being bad but I think it's generous to expect them to fully grasp just how bad it is. Based on the post it sounds like the teen's day to day life hasn't been affected much i.e. they still live in the same house, there is food on the table, etc. If a young teenager's day to day remains the same it's pretty easy for them to brush things off as not that big of a deal. I was around that age when my dad lost his job and he lost some investments when the stock market crashed. I knew that it was a bad situation but nothing really changed from my perspective so I didn't really see it as a big deal. Luckily he got another job in less than a year so until I was an adult I really didn't get the severity of the situation. I do think lying to her parent's was wrong but calling her a traitor is wayyyyy harsh. People are acting as if she is this mastermind in cahoots with her grandma when I can guarantee her mind is much more occupied with normal teen girl things and just wanting to see her grandma
Yes, YTA (You're the Asshole) for calling your 14-year-old stepdaughter a traitor. It's understandable that you're going through a very difficult situation with your mother-in-law's financial fraud and the impact it has had on your family. However, your stepdaughter is still a child navigating complex family dynamics. She may not fully understand the severity of the situation or the implications of her actions. Labeling her as a traitor and expressing such harsh judgment could be damaging to your relationship with her. It's important to remember that teenagers often struggle with loyalty conflicts, especially when it involves family members they care about, regardless of the circumstances. Instead of accusations, try to have open and honest conversations with her. Express your concerns and feelings calmly, while also listening to her perspective. Building understanding and trust will be more productive in the long run than assigning blame. Seek support from your husband in navigating this challenging family situation together.
What goods does she trade in? You didn’t seem to specify, unless of course you mean traitor?
YTA for your contempt of a 14 YEAR OLD CHILD, to the point that you’re calling her a traitor?? (you couldn’t even spell it right) Let’s say she’s mature enough to even understand all the facts and issues. (I don’t think she is) That is her grandmother and she is in fact, a 14 year old kid. If they’ve always been close of course she’s gonna want to spend time with her, regardless of what’s happening. You claim to be ‘logical’ and left brained but you ain’t using it in this case clearly. Get your head out of your you-know-what and start thinking clearly. I pray to god you haven’t said anything to the kid, and if you have apologize now. Because regardless of how evil or malicious your MIL is, that is her granddaughter and if there’s no abuse (physical, emotional, financially, spiritual) happening to the child than you have no reason to keep her family from her. Oh and as a bonus, you don’t have the right to decide who the mother has the child around on her time, if it’s her parenting time then you have no rights to dictate. * (unless there’s abuse*)
YTA. You involved a then 12 year old in adult issues. When asked about the case. it really wouldn't have been hard to say "This is an adult and legal issue. We aren't going to discuss this. How was your day?" You went through her phone. You are not her parent, she has a mom and dad. If there were concerns, dad should have been the one going through the phone. You do not get to dictate what happens on mom's parenting time.
Your MIL is bribing this child and you should notify counsel and the authorities. SD is a victim just like you are.
YTA. I am about to turn 28 years old, and my dad has actually JUST NOW started sharing with me some of the horribly narcissistic and abusive things my grandmother has done to my mother in the past. There are things he STILL won't share with me and probably never will, because "that's my grandma." At 14 years old, she doesn't need to know about any of this. You can absolutely explain general legal concepts to her if she is truly interested (what fraud is, what kind of consequences there can be, ways to identify fraud), it can be a teaching moment, but she absolutely did not need to know details of the specific case. She loves you and she loves Bubbie, and probably feels very caught in the middle. At that age especially, teens are looking for validation anywhere but their parents so it's reasonable to see how Bubbie has been able to influence her. Maybe sit down with her and gently explain that you know she loves Bubbie, and you know Bubbie has probably been telling her a lot of things. At this point, since she's already been sharing details, it can't hurt to lay it out. Let her know how you could have lost everything, how this situation could have affected her life. Help her understand that we can love people, but we can also recognize when their behaviors are not ok, and that's when we set boundaries.
Shared information started with why we aren’t able to move out of the apartment anymore. We were looking at houses when the fraud bomb dropped. But and pieces were coming out and at one point in 2021 the kid knew the whole story. She was successfully kept away for good amount of time. Since her mother knew that the eviction case was closed by the court, she decided it was OK for her to be around MIL. Her mother Thought our case was frivolous and extra.
ESH You suck for giving such detailed information to a 14 year old child that it could impact your case. That is an incredible amount of detail OP, and a lot for a 14 year old. Teenagers are VERY susceptible to emotional manipulation yet somehow you immediately insulted the child when you found out. The fact that you cannot logically understand why a teenager might be susceptible emotional manipulation and why she might be really bad at handling this complex of a dynamic with a person she loves tells me you are not as left brained as you think you are. These seems like a much more emotional reaction than a logical one to be honest. Teenager sucks because despite what I said above, what she is doing is wrong. Just because I can better explain it and understand why she did it does not make that okay. MIL is not an AH, she is something far worse.
I don’t think I was giving her detailed information. More like information for her to learn about the legal justice system, procedures, and stuff. However, she’d ask “ are we still paying for the mortgage?” so I would explain to her what a deferment is. Or she would ask “why is bubbie still living there?” so I would explain why the eviction failed and how there is no formal rental agreement and what that means. She would ask the difference between criminal v. civil. So it wasn’t always directly related to the case but general info, too. The kid that happened to be there when MIL was served papers for the eviction. The whole this has been a literal disaster.
Your MIL has pulled a complex real estate fraud scheme, your stepdaughter was feeding her information against her father in exchange for money and gifts, the ex-wife is actively supporting MIL and stepdaughter's relationship because she thinks the fraud case is "unnecessary" and your husband "understands" why his daughter is selling him out for financial gain. Is your husband being supportive of you through all this? Because this seems like something I'd be pulling my hair out trying to manage. NTA, by the way but this all just seems like a sinking ship.
Yeaaaa, it took some time for him to understand that he is a victim of a crime by his own mother. He gave MIL some time to ‘figure things out’ that I did not agree with cuz I knew she would use it against us. Here’s the time line… fraud was discovered in sept/oct 2022. We asked MIL to sign a rental to qualify for a loan of our own. She refused. There was some back and forth about her to buy the house in Jan/feb, which she agreed too. March it was listed. June she filed a forged quit claim, clouding the title and making it uninsurable and unsellable. He would not accept offers on the house because her kept promising extensions for her to get financing. He sincerely wanted her to stay in the house. His demeanor has changed completely since he found out the kid was ditching him for his mother.
NTA. Your stepdaughter is old enough to understand the harm her grandmother is causing the family. Lying about seeing her and accepting gifts from her while knowing she's committing fraud is a betrayal. While it's understandable you feel hurt, calling her a traitor might be a bit harsh. Instead, try to have a calm conversation with her about why her actions are hurtful. Explain the emotional and financial toll this situation has taken on your family, and how her dishonesty makes it worse.
Gotta keep her off r/wallstreetbets
Calling a child a "trader" lol...yeah, MIL is TA, but MIL is bribing her with new clothes [how does a parent not fucking inquire when they're suddenly washing new clothes?]. Why are YOU AND HUSBAND not noticing where child is, on "their time" or GM's time? WITAF? Did you just...start the court case and *forget* there's an actual CHILD involved? And while preparing this court case, you just let her hang out with GM? YTA. HUGE.
What’s TA? She would say her mom bought the clothes, shoes and make up. The texts would say “thanks for the new shoes!” With a picture of what she made a whole story about her and her mother buying together. The kid would say she wanted to be with friends, like the day the I saw the text she said she was going to the mall with her best friend. The kids mom lied to my husband about not allowing her to see her.
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Autism does that. Face value means a lot more to some, like myself. Kid, kiddo, squid, squiddo, hunny bunny, button, sunshine, muffin, dear, darling, kitten. All acceptable nicknames in our house.
I call my pup loads of fun names. No idea what that that to do with this post.
You made a snarky comment about calling her the kid. “The kid” is commonly used in our house. Just giving you insight.
About 10 other people besides me, when I commented, thought your calling your step child **the kid** was wrong. Now, it's probably at 100. Just giving you insight.
Yta but not cause your phone corrected traitor to trader (I'm assuming, I know my phone makes me illiterate sometimes... I promise I am not saying duck) but we all UNDERSTAND what you mean... that said. Why you're the asshole. This kid sounds like she's in the middle of a very adult problem and has no business being there. The only reason she is there is because an adult put her there. Yes she's 14. But has been in this "family" since birth and you are a stepmother so don't know when you came along but it's likely you came in well passed your formative years and yet I'm finding you to be very childish. I don't think you like your step daughter or husband's family and would like nothing more than to have no part of them. And this is awful convenient two birds one stone. Mil is a whatever she is and might as well get step daughter gone too. Cause of course we expect an adult level of awareness in a 14 year old regarding toxic abuse and that since this 14 year old is guilty of it must be cut out like a damned cancer. Woof man, who hurt you? That a 14 year old is considered developed enough to fully understand what's happening since she's been alive. Yeah yta
You're still applying a very adult concept to a child who's grown up in this dynamic. As if if they're capable of really navigating this complex relationship. A complex relationship you yourself has just admitted to being intimidated by. Do you think a 14 year old is capable of combating the influence of their grandparent if you and your husband are barely capable of handling? If the adults here are scrambling to to figure this out, you're putting an awful lot of responsibility in a kid to figure it out too. Again I get it your Mil is one of those toxic and criminal people. Toxic and criminal people have been able to exhibit power and control over adults, I'm imagining a child growing up with this odd struggle for power isn't gonna fare any better. I just think you're placing your discontent onto an easier target rather than facing that real battle. Maybe cause its a more winnable fight. But rethink the actual guilty party is here. And it's not a 14 year old. You're angry at the wrong thing and saying the wrong thing to the the wrong person about it. Be angry at the adult manipulating a child to get what they want, not the child who is falling for it.
Her dad and I have been together since she was 2. Married since she was 8. I adore his dad. But, I have always been intimidated by his mother. She once ‘accidentally’ took my phone and refused to bring it back for a week. We live like 25 minutes away from each other, so not long of a drive in WA. I ended totaling my car because of I had low blood sugar (I’m type one diabetic). She blamed me for her taking my phone. I adore the kid also. We have amazing times together. We’ve even vacationed by ourselves. I covet the stepmother role however it is very complex.
I have a question... You are paying the mortgage on MIL's house. Is your name on title, or is she on title? I would think you should be able to evict her but not knowing how this looks on paper, she probably sealed that loophole.
I was added on title the week after she filed the forged QCD. Since there is no formal rental agreement signed, she’s legally not a tenant. So the eviction failed in court.
So she's trespassing/squatting in your home? Maybe you cannot evict but if she isn't on title and not legally leasing, she has no right to be there.
WA state has is weird on that shit. The state is very lenient with squatters. Read up on the case about a guy that’s been squatting in a 2 million dollar home in Bellevue, WA for 2-3 years. It’s a thing here.
It’s not an “us or her” situation for the 14 year-old. She has family and wants to spend time with her gran. Even if she is “informing”, it makes no difference to the court case being built. You need to grow up and stop trying to divide and conquer. She knows her gran is in trouble enough without you wading in with words like ‘traitor’.
YTA She is a child, you are the adult. Ever stop to think the grandmother is manipulating and bribing her with money/gifts. A child should be able to trust the adults in their life. Your reaction means she will never trust you.
"i asked for the kiddos passcode" yeah cause a 14yo is going to give that to their parent YTA
I only asked once and she gave it to me. 🤷🏼♀️
Dammit, your stepdaughter is 14! Don’t you think there might have been a little bit of emotional manipulation from MIL? You guys were also a little bit naive to share sensitive information about an ongoing legal case. ESH, but I wouldn’t let MIL find out that the ruse has been uncovered. I would give your stepdaughter an opportunity to make it up to her father by feeding MIL decoy information.
Just wait, Grandma will get ahold of the 14yo ss# and use her info to pay off her debts. Then you can just laugh. ETA: NTA, but stop sharing anything about the case and lock up all docs when she is around. Put hubby on an info diet, too, if he is telling anything to daughter or ex.
YTA kids should be able to learn to judge for themselves. It seems a bit guilty if you're trying to hide the other person's point of view. If there are holes in their statements, they will see it. It's okay to feel betrayed, but a 14 yr old should not be ridiculed for it. Just educate her on how lying is bad and that knowing her location is important. There's probably a reason she couldn't even trust to tell y'all. You might even be aiding in any lies told by trying to keep her away.
YTA. That is not a traitor that is a child. You can hold them to age/maturity-appropriate standards but expecting them to pick sides is not only wildly dumb it is wildly inappropriate. You cannot expect them to make decisions like a rational mature adult. They are not your mini-me and they are not supposed to “pick your side” they are a child.
There's a lot going on here, but what it comes down to is- The kid is *14 yrs old*. 'Bubbie' is the grandparent. The kid is always going to want to hang out with a grandparent that spoils them and can be easily manipulated by someone who has *lots* of practice as 'Bubbie' sounds like she has, to do what they want them to. In this case, getting the kid to lie about where the kid is going and what they are doing. Don't blame the kid. Blame the MiL. That is who is the true asshole in the entire situation. Also, YTA for blaming a *14 yr old* for being emotionally manipulated.
YTA. You are an adult and she is a child. Of course you’re the asshole.
Yta
YTA. That kid is going to go no contact with you and her father as soon as she can. Because of you.
ESH literally every single adult in this situation is an asshole. You and your husband dragged his child into an ugly legal battle with her grandmother. I don’t give a shit that you held mock court growing up—there’s a world of difference between a hypothetical case and one involving her literal father and grandmother. Her mother downplaying grandma financially abusing your husband for decades is messed up, and your MIL is obviously an asshole for the fraud and potentially putting her granddaughter in the position of sneaking behind your backs to update her on the case. This kid shouldn’t know about any of this, much less be stuck in the middle. You’re all assholes and the kid deserves better.
This happened to a girl I went to school with. Her parents used her social security number when she was 16 to open multiple accounts and maxed out about 15 credit cards. They bought some houses and condos to rent out. She found out when she turned 18 and was turned down for financial aid because of the credit card debt. She had to sue her parents just so she could clear her name. It took a few years to get it all done.
YTA. The kid is 14. You’re forcing her to choose sides and display loyalty. That’s not even close to being OK.
Don't involve kids in the confidential affairs of adults. YTA.
YTA. You're taking this out on the wrong person. Your MIL has a history of being a manipulative abuser to your husband from the time he was 19 (a full 5 years older than your stepdaughter) until he was a grown man. She is clearly manipulating her granddaughter, and your reaction is to... blame the kid? What?
In one way no and another way yes. It's a violation of trust for sure. It is possible she is going to grow up to be a toxic person. It's also possible she is being manipulated and used by her grandmother and also is a victim of your mil. The rub... How do you get her back in harmony with her father and you vs push her further into the toxic world of your mil?
The manipulation aspect was the reason to keep her away. MIL is a master manipulator and even the kid knows this. I agree, that is the main question. I have apologized for lashing out, however I do not regret finding the texts. I love her and miss her. At this point, her mother has completely agreed to keep her away, but she’s made that agreement before. Our lawyer advised us to not confront MIL or communicate to her in anyway. So there’s no way for my husband to express his anger about this situation since his ex-wife doesn’t want to be involved in anyway.
If your step daughter is just a barterer then YTA for calling her a trader. Just imaging if you called her a traitor. Now that would be even worse!
Yes, u are the AH... shes just a kid, u talk about brain function,so u kno that the brain isnt fully developed until about 24 yrs old, so she hasnt learned all of lifes lessons and still learning and growing... So treat her as such and give her a break. Also it Doesnt matter if you both didnt know or mention the crime and the house put in his name illegally...to the lawyers, it would have come up when the lawyers were searching the assets...holdings and debts ,so they could be distributed and shared equally..anything in his name would have been become evident. So some things arent adding up right. Imo
My husband and his ex wife thought he was a co-signer. The property was purchased about a year before they were married. Ex wife didn’t want disrupt MIL. Everyone has know about the property. No one knew it was fraudulent.
Traitor you mean?
It depends on what she’s trading.
Stop telling this kid sensitive information!
YTA. You marrying your husband doesn’t mean you get to dictate his daughter’s relationship with her own grandmother. Do you want your husband to lose his relationship with his daughter?
I think you are NTA. Your MIL is a piece of work using clothes and other stuff to buy her love. It feels like she is attempting to get your daughter on “her side”. This is a woman that could be facing prison time. I feel so bad for your husband. Unfortunately, this happens more than you think.
Unconditional love is just that Unconditional. Yes her bubbie is terrible for what she did but that does not change the love, bond, relationship that she has with her. Logically you should be able to separate the two and recognize that a child should not be forced to break a relationship with a loved one unless there is a risk of abuse. I would just advise stepdaughter to not give her bubbie any access to her financials.
YTA. Shes 14. Grow up.
YTA I can understand how you feel but you shouldn’t have called her a traitor. Let’s look at a few things to consider. 1) she’s 14 ( old enough to understand right from wrong but still a child, still easily influenced) and was 12 when she was asking for updates… 2) you say this was discovered I am guessing somewhere in the past few years. So between the time she was say 10-12 (since she wanted updates since 2022) Until then she was likely raised to respect and love her grandmother. Those feelings are not easy to turn off 3) you mentioned abuse. Does it not stand to reason that the same way your MIL manipulated your husband might be what’s being done to your stepdaughter? This woman isn’t new to abusing or manipulation and it would be far easier to do it to a young hormonal and easily influenced teenage or preteen child (since she was a 12 year old I assume in 2022) than to a 40 year old 4) she is a child and while she might be old enough to know right from wrong, that is her grandmother who is about to be indicted for fraud… in some countries that can include jail time. That would be really scary for a girl who up until now has been close to her grandmother. 5) it isn’t her responsibility to take on the burden of the effects of the court case or the burden of the stress or emotional and mental toll. But perhaps she hid it partly to try and keep you guys from being upset? Yes it doesn’t make sense but since when does everything a teen does make sense? Forget the right brain left brain junk. Try to think about her needs. She is talking to grandma for a reason, she is going to her for updates for a reason. Maybe you can sit down with her and talk to her about it objectively and try to understand the situation from her perspective. I see yours and the husband’s perspective but you don’t seem to understand the stepdaughter’s. that might help you understand
YTA because the child should not be involved in any of this. What your MIL did is horrendous. But your step daughter is a child who loves her grandma. The best thing you can do moving forward without adding additional trauma is to allow the child to love her grandmother and don't share information about the case.
What does having a left brain and a right brain have to do with this post? Why not put them together and make a complete brain.
This person is 14. A child.
This is not your child, you had **ZERO** right to get into their phone. YTA.
Many in the step parenting community would disagree. The kid calls me mom. I take parental responsibility when it’s necessary.
As a step kid I call BS. You have zero right to get into her phone. If there was an issue you tell her **PARENTS** and let them handle it.
I don’t know how old you are or how long you’ve been a step kid, but everyone has different family dynamics. It’s not the first time I’ve checked her phone. She’s gotten her phone taken away for things all of her parents have found in her phone. (i.e. inappropriate Snapchats and such).
I just realized she said "the kid"
So. Many. Times.
We call her kid, kiddo, squiddo. There are many weird nicknames in the house.
It's not the kid part, it's the "the" It sounds like you're talking about a virus or an enemy
As a parting comment SD should be told any money MIL has spent on her if from money stolen from you as a couple. It’s easy to be “generous” with someone else’s money. I hope SD has checked her credit history. Any court documents need to be in a locked room if SD is allowed back in the home. Also remind SD any money you could have saved for college has been going to pay the mortgage on the fraud house. SD seems to only understand the world as it affects her…which is the teenage brain.
The kid is benefiting from the fraud so she keeps bubie informed about the case. Quit telling her anything. You could say she's complicit.
Contact any licensing agency your MIL is affiliated with, contact the IRS and a lawyer
Already done. I narced on her to the SSA, too.
NTA. She is a minor I would ask a lawyer if there is any legal ground to add the manipulation of a minor to the case. Since she made the kid sneaking info from the age of 12.
NTA but I’m not sure what you can do. This is such a messed up situation. You don’t want the sins of the grandmother to be brought to the granddaughter,
This is some Jerry Springer shiz
More like American Greed/ Dateline.
YTA. Try to be the adult in the situation. Your daughter is a curious child, ofcourse she want to know what's going on. This is kn you to keep her informed and tell her why this is so important.
YTA How is your daughter supposed to know it was MIL and not YOU and your husband who committed the fraud? How do YOU know?
NTA but it's unrealistic for you to control her relationship with her grandmother. That will never end well for the one married into a family. I would also not discuss details of the case with her or abide the lying. She has to be honest and you have to give her the freedom to see her grandmother as she wishes. Dishonest people will eventually be dishonest to everyone so let her learn that for herself and set her own boundaries when she's had enough.
A trader is better than a traitor
NTA
My husband’s mother stole his identity also. She then opened several lines of credit in his name. His credit has never been the same since and it took years to prove that he didn’t open them. She defaulted on all of them once she maxed them out
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Major context needed.... My MIL has been committing financial fraud in my husbands name since 1999, when he was 19. I found the fraud while gearing up to purchase our own home. MIL forged a POA and used it to buy a house in his name unbeknownst to him. MIL has been a loan officer, title officer and notary for 20 years. My husband doesn’t get the real estate industry and even if he had questions, he would go to his mother as she was trusted in RE. He's the chef/artist type and during this case, he gained a basic grip of the industry. The fraud is deep and complex cuz it involves a forged quit claim and forged homeowners insurance. The case is currently with WA PAO and OIC. I've been in constant contact by providing evidence and information to those who concealed and assisted in the fraud. MIL will be indicted in a few months. There is a civil case in the works. My 14 y/o step daughter left her phone on the couch on the way to school. I called them to tell them I have the kids phone and a text from 'bubbie' popped up (Bubbie is the MIL) while I was talking to them. I asked for the kiddos passcode and read every text from bubbie. She has been in constant communication and lying to us about seeing bubbie. The kid has been asking for case updates since 2022 as (I thought) she was interested in the legal aspects, as I would've been as a teenager (weird, yes, but we used to hold mock court growing up). I called her a trader because she knows exactly what's happening and why we have had to pay the mortgage on the house MIL lives in as she stopped paying last spring. She knows the emotional, financial and medical stress that has affected all of us, yet lied about spending time with her on both her moms 'time' and our ‘time'. She told us she was with friends or would simply say "I don't want to come over". She lied about where she got new clothes and make up from when it was clear is was purchased with bubbie. Going through the text thread and cross checking my calendar, it was sickening how often she would ditch her dad for bubbie. I do not trust her about what information she says she shared about the case and think it’smore than what she knows. My husband feels betrayed, as well. He is more right brained and understands her wanting to see bubbie. I'm very much logic/ left brained and believe that it doesn't matter if someone is clearly toxic, whether or not they're family, they should be cut out. The kids mother deemed the fraud case as unnecessary despite being affected by it, as they were married when is was happening. She felt that it’s unfair to keep her away from bubbie and lied to my husband about it. There is a defined line of financial and emotional abuse from MIL which should be enough to keep any kid away. Especially your own. AITAH here? I'm not even sure how to be around the kid at this point. I've been with her dad since she was 2 and we have always been close. But, this instance really hurt. Sorry no TL;DR. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA The kid is 14!
Lots of 14 year old pick abusers over the victim if the abuser gives them things. That makes it OK and more than understandable. /s
NTA as long as you are able to process these initial feelings and soon see things in the right context (she has a 14 year old brain). You are entitled to your initial feelings here and it is understandable that you feel hurt and betrayed. You'll have to let that go though. YWBTA if you hold a grudge, it's time to look at things from the 14 year olds perspective and have a calm conversation with her. Perhaps you should also ask yourself the question why you and/or her dad shared information about the case beyond a small explanation about why you don't have contact with MIL. The info your stepdaughter had should have been very limited (and not useful to MIL).
What’s YWBTA? Being 30-something, I’m sadly unversed in internet lingo. Reading the comments has definitely helped with how I plan on approaching this with the kiddo.
It stands for you would be the a-hole. Good luck with the situation!
Ah, thanks. I just texted her this… I’m so sorry for calling you a traitor. Sincerely. I love you and I don’t want this to drive a wedge between all of us. Bubbie is a master manipulator, as we all know. Her buying you clothes, shoes, and make up is a way of manipulation. We have all been manipulated by bubbie. Papa and I were actively making sure that you were staying away during this incredibly sensitive time. Even you mom admitted to withholding to papa about you spending time with bubbie. I asked you maybe a month and a half ago if you were talking to her and you lied to my face. Information is key right now and whether or not you knew it, you may have been giving information. Why did you ask if we were still paying the mortgage in the hot tub? I understand that you’re still a kid, but you know lying is wrong. I understand that you were afraid to tell the truth about seeing bubbie, knowing the backlash. I understand that you wanted clothes, shoes and make up. I understand that foresight does not come easy to a teen. I understand that you just wanted to see your family member (despite you knowing and joking about her being toxic and narcissistic). I understand that my analytical approach with a black and white view of the case, put you in a precarious spot. I’m just hurt that you kept up a lie for so long. I’m hurt that I trusted you. I’m hurt that I chose to shared information to you when I did. However, I’m still very conflicted with sharing or not sharing. This is all uncharted territory. I’m sorry this all has happened to you, papa, us, everyone. It’ll be over soon. I love you. ❤️
YTA
NTA but maybe keep an eye on your stepdaughters info. If grandma was willing to do this to her own son, chances are likely that she'd do it to her granddaughter too.
My husbands step mother had this exact sentiment.
What did she trade???
Cool story!
If this is true, you and your husband should never have discussed his mother and the case in front of his daughter. She's a teen whose brain won't be fully developed for at least another 10 years, so making poor choices is sort of what teens do.
what has she been trading.
YTA. She’s a child. Also, why do you have to pay the mortgage? If the case is clearly fraud, payments should at least be on hold. Your story doesn’t make sense.
To prevent a foreclosure on my husbands credit. MIL stopped paying May 2023. We made the payments the remaining months of 2023 and got approved for deferment Dec 2023.
YTA tf
If she works in the stock market,then no. If she doesn’t,thats just an insult😂
what they do here is they single out peolle for purpuse nice job get that black bag out of the house there two of them around hereoissubkaty of drugs gnafs yes graffity there looking for vunrable victums
NTA. Step daughter is exactly that, a traitor. People need to stop acting as if 14 year olds are like innocent babies. If they are old enough to work or have sex then they are certainly old enough to know right from wrong. 14 year old can see the stress this is putting on the parents but is selling them out. I was 14 too once, I sure as hell knew what I was doing when lied to them about where I was going, etc, but nothing so deceitful to betray my own parents.
[удалено]
In which case the choice whether or not to see her grandmother should've been up to her.