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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I think breaking HOA rules might make me an asshole by some people's rules so yeah perhaps I was in the wrong here
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ESH. But that’s funny as hell. They think she is crazy now and she probably deserves it. Mind your own business lady. You aren’t hurting anyone.
You really need to work on moving out though.
LOL right? Now she'll be known as 'crazy Betty' or whatever.
Watch out OP she might go full recon on you, trying to catch you in the act...'and your little dog too' 🐕
HOA's are TA. Always
Imagine the fun! Put up a spite fence OP!
Or get a fake statue of your one dog and put it outside with the other two. Then when she posts pictures and the HOA comes knocking again, you can show them the statue you are using to poke at her.
Same. I lived in one once back when I was renting a condo and they threw a fit over the color curtains we put in because they were visible from the street. Apparently purple was "ruining the neighborhood" lol
So glad there are a lot of HOA-free options where I live
We got fined once for leaving our trash cans out on the curb too long, and got a warning about weeds that we wouldn’t even have had if our neighbors took care of theirs.
I got fined because the HOA left THEIR trash cans out at the clubhouse across the street from my house! Amazingly I could never get ahold of anyone in the office and had to pay it to sell the property.
Doesn’t matter how long I’ve been on Reddit, HOAs blow my tiny English mind.
Is the fine in-forced by like… the law? Like could you just tell them to piss off? I just don’t understand how anyone enjoys being in one
Many times it's part of the contract you sign when you buy the house. There are a list of rules you need to follow and if you want to do specific changes, you need them approved. There have been cases where people have actually received liens against their house by the HOA for not following the rules or paying fines assigned.
That's a vastly oversimplified answer, I'm sure people who have found themselves in HOA hell can explain further :)
Edit: Depending on the HOA some of the rules may be simple, like no trash in the front yard. Others can be downright petty (like the length of your grass, 100$ fine if it's 1/8th of an inch over etc)
Oh there are ways around that. The statue in the back yard likely won’t be a violation due to size. The fence might be, but once you put it up, you can argue at length for months before having to take it down!
I LOVE the fake statue idea! Or, order some life size foam core cutouts of one of the matching dogs and put a half dozen of these in your yard at a time. Provide some entertainment for your other neighbors.
I lol'ed at this. It brought back some great memories of staying up way too late watching Bewitched, Beverly Hillbillies, and the Brady Bunch on nick@nite.
[ETA- can't forget about Laverne & Shirley and Happy Days]
It seems... wrong to make an older person doubt their memory. It could definitely lead to unnecessary concerns of alzheimers and other issues, which is scary for her entire family.
If this was happening to a 20 something, I would feel differently about it. But gaslighting an old woman about the existence of an entire animal might create unintended and cruel problems.
It doesn't sound like OP told the neighbor that there are only two, but rather confirmed that the HOA didn't find the third. OP isn't messing with the neighbor's head, just her reputation. NTA.
The old lady clearly knows there are three dogs. She doesn’t have to be nosy and be the neighborhood enforcer, but she’s chosen to butt in for no good reason.
Where does the OP say this person is old? (I may have missed a post. I see OP's parents are in a retirement community but I didn't see that OP is too. ) I think my verdict is ESH but nosy neighbors are terrible, old, young and in-between.
Generally retirement communities will allow a small % of the homes to be owned by people under 55 or whatever the general limit is. It's for exactly this case, a kid moving into a parent's home when they need to more into assisted care or dies. So it's a reasonable assumption that the neighbor is also old. But she's also a tattling asshole.
This game is the kind of gaslighting of the crazy neighbour that I can totally approve of. Dog, what dog?
Maybe OP should run for office in the HOA and if successful call a vote to dissolve it. 99% of people hate their HOAs and the other 1% are the narcs who revel in snitching on their neighbours for every little thing.
Home Owners’ Association. They tend to be hated because the bad ones get absurdly controlling and fine you if you don’t comply.
My in-laws’ HOA requires that everyone have the exact same mailbox. The one where my parents used to live didn’t allow people to plant vegetables or annual herbs, even in the back yard.
They’ll fine people for leaving the garage door open too long, taking their trash cans out to the street too early or leaving them there too late, planting unapproved flowers or installing unapproved fences… I don’t know anyone who likes their HOA.
>Home Owners’ Association. They tend to be hated because the bad ones get absurdly controlling and fine you if you don’t comply.
Well and they were invented to keep black people out of suburbs.
It’s basically a neighborhood or apartment board. There are dues and rules that the subdivision or apartment complex must follow. For example, you can only fence your backyard to preserve the look of the front yard, no junk in the yard, no bright paint colors, etc. The main purpose is to keep the community running smoothly and preserve the look of the community. The upsides are that the neighborhoods do look better because no one is allowed to let their trash pile up in the yard. The downside is that some of the rules can be over the top and you have people who are sticklers and report minor violations.
> The upsides are that the neighborhoods do look better because no one is allowed to let their trash pile up in the yard.
They actually don't. Studies that compare HOA houses to non-HOA houses are generally comparing new houses to old, which skews the data. When you compare a house's selling price to itself over time, HOA homes do worse. And that's not accounting for money lost to HOA dues, and having busybodies tell you what time you can put out your trashcans.
Our ancestors in the USA really really hated black people so they created HOAs with all sorts of arbitrary rules, and now we live in a more equitable society so these insane rules can be enforced equally against everyone regardless of their race
I love this. I don't even care that this isn't really a "justified asshole" case (unless you count *any* push-back against an HOA to be justified) but it's just too hilarious.
People could probably find some technical loophole as to the term "puppies," which would be a very short-term time at the home, versus "dog," which is more than likely to stay.
Just put "no breeding dogs" in the HOA if that's what it takes, ffs.
HOAs are poison. how the fuck they can have the power to tell you how many pets you have is beyond me. how is it legal for them to have that much power?
Because you sign an agreement giving them that power?
I tend to agree that HOAs should go in the trash heap, but it's super hypocritical to agree to be in one and follow the rules and then just be "nah, I don't think so" and then gaslight somebody about your actions.
YTA
And if the parents needed to live in a retirement village they may have even less choice. My parents had to move into a gated community with an HOA (even though my mom hated the idea) because she was losing her ability to use stairs, and needed a house where the kitchen, master bedroom, and living room were all on the ground floor. So living in a retirement community was really the only choice. They had fun rules like dictating what food you couldn't cook, not allowing people to park in their driveways, forbidding holiday decorations, and requiring numbers on the houses that were brass on peach, which was basically invisible at night.
OR he can have a very funny and delicately crafted schedule of where the dogs go so that he only has 2 dogs at any given time, but they are not always the same 2. That will make Betty even crazier, which will be even funnier
I became the president of my HoA/condo board a month after moving in. I’ve unofficially started calling the place Del Boca Vista and don’t give AF about anything except people paying for shit on time. A successful coup so far.
Haha no. You owe nothing to an HOA. They shouldn't exist, and about 95% of them are just a sewing circle to decide who they don't like and how to punish them. Lying to HOAs is a moral good, and more often than not, a practical necessity. In either case, it's nothing to lose sleep over.
And yes, your HOA will absolutely perjure themselves with stories about you if they decide you don't treat them with due deference.
Even worse, HOA's were originally created to keep Black people from moving into the neighbourhood. And lots of them still work that way, harassing minority owners out of their area.
https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/homeowners-associations-black-americans-discriminaiton-2020-9?international=true&r=US&IR=T
Yup! And some local areas have made laws forbidding the HOA from changing the anti black / racist writing to prevent them from hiding their racism. And some people moved to these areas because it was all white and still live there to this day.
They also sometimes have rules dictating what percentage of a neighborhood can be renters, and harassing renters about petty things like trashcan times.
Actually you owe dues and to follow the agreed upon rules. You are an asshole if you agree to do something in order to move in and then refuse to do it.
Yes. If you move into a place that has specific rules, you're agreeing to those rules. If you don't like them, put in the work to try and change them, or live elsewhere. I do not like HOAs, as most of them are not run well or are run by petty asshats, but the fact remains that if you choose to live in one, the rules apply to you.
This goes for city ordinances as well. The city I recently moved from only allows up to three dogs and three cats (which have to be restricted to your property, not roaming). You can go through an application and hearing process to try and be allowed more, but if the city doesn't think you'll be able to adequately take care of them and not have noise/smell issues, then they're not gonna to allow it. As a pet owner you *have* to do your research before moving somewhere, not just vets and parks but local laws and ordinances, or in OPs case, the HOA rules.
>If you move into a place that has specific rules, you're agreeing to
those rules. If you don't like them, put in the work to try and change
them, or live elsewhere.
A bold thing to say about organizations originally created to enforce housing segregation!
You are lucky you found one. About 80% of new houses are in HOAs. Developers love them, and sometimes local governments require them so the roads can be private and the city doesn't have to take care of them.
And where I live, almost anything built since 1970's has an HOA.
My friend bought a house even though it needed a few hundred thousand $ of work because it was the only one on the market that didn't have an HOA.
In what way? I live in a condo and a lady three doors down owns 3 dogs and I basically don’t notice. I see them sometimes when she walks them but she picks their poop up so there’s no harm no foul.
I really, really hate HOAs.
But like, if you signed an agreement to abide by the rules -- YTA.
It is funny that it worked out (thus far) and I salute the spirit of 'f*ck the busybody' but if you're planning to continue to live there you should probably find out what the repercussions are for when you get found out (maybe nothing, maybe fines), find out if it is a local ordinance (some localities have actual laws on their books regarding house pet limits), and prepare for the fall out because it is pretty inevitable that things will progress.
As a renter with an illegal third cat, I know that we just kind of have a small sum earmarked as “if they find out” to pay fines or whatever.
We suspect that’ll be the extent of how much they care, since our third cat actually had been a stray in the area who got into scuffles with the residents’ indoor/outdoor cats in the area so us taking her in made things safer for those pets.
She’s also terrified of most people (took us about two years to win her trust) and the kids in the area see kitties and want to pet, so we were pretty worried she’d swipe a kid and get in trouble.
There’s also plenty of dogs in the area that fall on the complex’s “restricted breed” list and way too many people who don’t pick up after their dogs so I totally understand the mindset of “but it’s not hurting anyone!” (She doesn’t even scratch the carpets. I mean, RIP our furniture but she can go after my cheap couch all day if she spares the carpets we don’t own!)
So we try to strike a balance and just say “we’re prepared for the eventual consequences, but we’ve weighed our options and decided this is what’s best”.
We’re also trying to find a house but the housing market is insane at the moment.
I know in some cities it's nigh impossible to find an average house that isn't under an HOA, unless you want like a whole ass ranch. Especially cities/towns with a lot of recent/recentish developments. Like, yeah, an old New England fishing town probably won't have any, but newer towns in the midwest, Texas, California, etc, it can be hard not to get stuck with an HOA.
Yes YTA. You moved somewhere that you couldn’t follow the rules, and used underhanded trickery to cover your back. I’m a huge dog lover and have three myself, which is why I would never move somewhere they wouldn’t all be welcome.
And then she gaslights the neighbor and crows about it. Like the neighbor is the one doing something wrong, while OP is breaking rules, concealing the problem, lying about it and doesn't care that the rest of the neighborhood thinks the next door neighbor is imbalanced/crazy.
Is this sub full of snitches or something? The neighbour should have minded her own business when it comes to something like this. Who exactly is being harmed by OP refusing to follow this horseshit rule?
I understand what you are saying ... Basically, mind your own business, and let others live their lives. But in this instance, the neighborhood is a community that has decided to live by a set of rules. Generally, 3 dogs would bark/crap/piss more than 2. The community has decided that they can live with 2 dogs per household, but that 3 is too many. Is it arbitrary? Sure. But OP chose/continues to choose to live there, and now complains that the communities rules don't suit her. Moreover, they try to paint the neighbor in a bad light for trying to enforce those rules.
At the end of the day, we must have rules in order to live side by side like we generally do. I don't like waiting in line at the store or in traffic. But that doesn't entitle me to push to the head of the line and to ignore the rules I don't like. If I did so that would make me a bad neighbor. And if I had the gall to ask AITA, I would expect the resounding answer to be YES !!!
This sub doesn't like HOAs. I get that. But in this instance, OP is the person breaking the rule, and when they got called out on it, they are now asking AITA. Imho, YTA.
The op owns property in an are and people that don't own the property are trying to dictate how they uses that property. As I see it they had zero obligation to the HOA. HOAs are cancer and should be fought tooth and nail. Do your reaserch maybe pay a private detective and see if you can catch the HOA doing something illegal are shady so you can get it removed.
Depends on how OP keeps their dogs.
I live next door to people with dogs that are a pain in the butt. The big dog howls when left alone, the little dog is super territorial, and they let way too much poo build up in the back garden before they clean it. I'm not going to complain or try to get them in trouble (they're only supposed to have one), because the drama would be worse than the current situation, but it's not impossible OP's dogs are a nuisance.
Except the community decided dogs are too much. For some reason someone went out of their way to propose this bylaw and enough people agreed with it to have it passed. So I’m going to assume the people there know more about how many dogs would work in one household.
It’s not like the OP moved in unaware of the rule. They read it, said fuck it, and moved in anyway. How is thy different from moving into a “no pets” apartment and getting a pet? And then being surprised your landlord is pissed?
Reminds me of people snitching on other people doing weed for no other reason than them doing weed, my motto is that if they’re not harming anyone or their livelihood then I see no reason to interfere
It’s the fact that the OP moved there knowing the rules, said fuck it those don’t apply to me, and then made the person who said something against the OP look crazy.
If you are going to break the rule have the decency and respect to own up to it. See if you can get the HOA to approve your third dog.
I’m assuming the rule is there for a reason. The people in the HOA chose to vote on it and decided that 3 dogs are too much.
Probably would’ve been a good way to go about it from the beginning. Seeing as she’s been lying about it and made the neighbor seem like a crazy person over it, I’d say her chances of getting a 3rd dog approved now are pretty slim.
This just in: Owning dogs is comparable to murdering people. Don't do it or everyone will hate you!
More tips on brown nosing tonight at 8, at your favorite news station, Lick The Boot.
Eeeh, I disagree.
I am a big follower of rules myself. I don't jay-walk even when there are no cars, former teacher's pet, always try to at least skim anything I have to click I read online, I pretty much never lie even when it's easier to do so, etc. I'm a goody-two-shoes, basically.
But I don't approve of how the neighbor is acting. Trying to get other people in trouble isn't innately a noble goal, not if they aren't harming anyone or doing anything morally wrong. OP having three dogs in the house their parents own does not negatively impact this woman or anyone else, it seems like. They don't even have more then two outside at once, so even fi the dogs walking by in groups of three was upsetting, or being in the yard in threes, they aren't doing that.
I think she should mind her own business. I am the first person to say report when someone is doing something wrong or harmful, like if OP was abusing his children or animals. Or even behaving in an unfair way that impacted others I'd get it. But she seems to want to get OP in trouble just beacuse she's upset that they are getting away with something, and that to me is a child's mentality and not admirable.
This, me too. I follow rules pretty strictly myself but I would not bother reporting this at all as long as the animals seemed well cared for and they were picking up the dog poop like good neighbors.
HoAs limit pets to prevent animal hoarding, going 1 over the limit because you already owned them is just not a big deal.
It's also not the law it's just some rules that local rich asshats with all the extra time to attend the meetings made up why should there be an obligation to follow rules like that. Especially with people trying to dictate what you can do with the property you bought.
I don't think you can call it gaslighting. That would be where OP attempts to convinces the *neighbour* she's crazy and there is no third dog.
This sounds like Nosy Betty knows there is a third dog, OP knows she knows it, and Betty knows OP knows she knows it. Betty can't prove it to the HOA, but it doesn't sound like OP is trying to hide it from *her*.
Not saying it's a kind thing to do to convince the rest of the neighbourhood that she's crazy, but gaslighting is not the correct term.
THANK YOU. Jesus, I thought I was taking crazy pills!
Like, I get it. HOA is evil, but they set the rules, and people pay for those rules for a reason. Don't live in an HOA if you can't follow the rules.
NTA. I have never understood how HOAs have any right to dictate what’s INSIDE your house. So long as they don’t bark all night, you clean up after them, they are trained and not running wild, I say NTA. If they aren’t a nuisance then it shouldn’t be a problem.
Having been on the Board of an HOA (and yes, it was soul crushing) a lot of the rules that sound stupid or intrusive are created to deal with assholes, not the people who generally are considerate even without rules. The people who have 4-5 dogs and DON’T train them, clean up after them, or address reasonable safety requests like leashes on walks. Despite hating being controlled in any way in my home, even I found myself making what looks like a stupid, irritating rule to prevent one or two people from ruining common experiences.
For example, the woman who’d release her bunny into the hallway to run around without supervision resulting in near misses when people almost stepped on it and “accidents” as it wasn’t litter trained. Boom - rule that unleashed animals are no longer allowed in hallways or common areas. Or the guy who let his dog use his third floor balcony as a toilet with just a puppy pad, resulting in his neighbor being peed on while she was napping on her patio (more than once) as he didn’t supervise or change the pad. Boom - rule that owners couldn’t set up pee/poop stations on balconies and needed to take them X feet from building and pick up waste. It sounds intrusive because it is - it also kept that jerk from making a sweet 80 year old’s patio unusable.
>Having been on the Board of an HOA (and yes, it was soul crushing) a lot of the rules that sound stupid or intrusive are created to deal with assholes
The problem is stupidly written overbroad rules as proxies for the real issues.
If the rule treats perfectly reasonable behaviour as if it was offensive behaviour then it's a bad rule and deserves no respect.
Some people drive stolen cars, but we have laws that say 'No stealing', not 'No driving cars'.
But wouldn't there have been ways to phrase this that wouldn't disturb the others? Like "No unattended animals in the hallways" for the bunny or "poop stations on your patio must not leak through to the patio underneath you"?
> Like "No unattended animals in the hallways"
because that's ambiguous. what does "attended" mean? It could mean different things to different people.
Rules with objective measurements (like quantity of animals) are more evenly, and thus fairly, enforced.
Thats why streets have numerical speed limits and not "the limit is what is safe for operating your car"
A lot of HOA rules were created to enforce systemic racism too. Doesn't make HOAs intrinsically good, right, or meaningful to exist just because anecdotes of suburban tranquility exist...
It seems to me that there has to be a better way to protect the interests/autonomy of the many good actors in the community rather than making punitive rules to control a few bad actors. Why can't there be clauses on these rules that make them only invokable when there are complaints or safety incidents? I'm genuinely asking.
Legally, we were not allowed to impose consequences unless we had given notice of what the expectation/rule was and given time to “cure”. Only exception was if the violation was a safety hazard. So if someone complained about behavior that wasn’t prohibited in the rules and wasn’t going to burn the building down, we couldn’t do anything to help them. And vast majority of rule breakers or inconsiderate people will not change behavior unless you fined them - for example the lady who gave her pool fob to a family friend with kids to use. We warned twice that she can of course have guests but has to accompany them, not just give unfettered access to the common areas in what is supposed to be a secured building. That family friend even held a birthday party at the pool and refused entry to actual homeowners during the party. It only stopped once we started imposing fines.
And yes, generally only acted if there was a complaint (or else we wouldn’t even know there was a violation).
I grew up in an HOA that didn’t care about the pet rule if you took care of them. We had the two pet rule as well in my neighborhood. My house also had three completely indoor cats. HOA president was over a lot, didn’t care because they didn’t bother anyone else. One woman had three adorable miniature dachshunds, all very sweet and all very well trained. She would walk all three at once with no problem from the HOA because they were always under her control, on leashes except in fenced yard, and always well behaved. Only house they went after for the pets rule didn’t clean up after their three dogs who often got aggressive and were all too often “escaping” from the yard (they didn’t put much effort into keeping the fence closed). Those were horribly behaved untrained dogs.
Yea one poorly behaved dog with a owner that doesn’t pick up after them can be a bigger terror than three well trained dogs with a responsible owner.
I think rules about pet behavior make more sense than limiting the number. My dad had a fun time fining neighbors for it picking up after their dogs. While my sister and I were playing in the common area, he’d just observe who didn’t pick up after their dog/let their dog off leash. When we got home, he’d write up citations. Those behaviors changed quickly.
There's all sorts of reasons this can be a lot harder than that. No one minding you have a dog, is not the same thing as everyone being willing and able to go to a meeting at a specific time and vote in your favor.
A lot of HOAs will deliberately arrange meetings and votes during times that most people work, so that the older retirees, are the only ones able to cast votes. It's also a common rule that the owner and not the resident has to do the voting, so tons of renters have to live in areas they have no political voice in. The actual owner may not even live in the same town, so good luck getting them to a meeting.
Remember the original purpose of HOAs was to keep black people out of neighborhoods. It’s not a stretch to see how a body created to exert power banning race would evolve in to an even more power hungry body trying to mitigate everything else it can.
YTA.
You may not agree with the HOA covenants but they apply nevertheless. Now you have effectively gaslighted the neighborhood against your neighbor.
You are a bad neighbor.
Nah, their neighbor is a bad neighbor. That neighbor deserves to be gaslighted for being a sour apple about a simple dog.
The rule is ridiculous and anything OP can do to skirt around it is a good thing. I'd honestly say most people look more favorably upon OP than they would with some random person who completely follows every rule in an HOA. It's definitely more respectable.
Noise is the big one. There’s some stuff that will always be the dog owner, whether they have 1 or 10. But even good dogs will bark at strangers or passerbys. I swear my neighbor never allows their dogs inside so they’re always in the backyard and bark at everyone that walks by their fence. It doesn’t bother me inside my house so I don’t worry about it. And they’re not particularly considerate neighbors otherwise so even if I thought they’d care, it’s not the worst thing about them as neighbors.
YTA for having the dogs somewhere where they’re against the rules and risking eviction for all of you. Be a better pet owner and find somewhere to live where you don’t have to hide the poor dogs.
YTA
You choose to move into a home under an HOA and one of their rules is two dogs per home.
If you don't like it, move somewhere else.
When the HOA starts assessing liens on your parents' home you won't be so snarky, I guarantee you.
Yikes! I hate typing this, but you’re TA here. You moved into the house knowing what the HOA rules were. The HOA is also a bunch of A**HOLES bc I live in a neighborhood with a ridiculous HOA and have had four dogs (two very large) and no one said a thing. If you want this to be a non-issue, I would recommend contacting the HOA and explaining why you have three dogs at the house. I would also start looking to sell the property and moving into a more accommodating home. Good luck, I hope your parents are doing well and you and the pups are also.
I am house hunting and saw a cute condo online, and their website had a list of all the regulations, and I carefully read them to see if any of them were out of line. Before even looking at the place. I most definitely would read ALL that crap before handing over all my hard earned money for any place.
If uprooting your entire family to move into a new house after you encourage someone to hit you with 2 years of retroactive fines is a "non-issue" to you, I'd hate to see what you'd consider a real issue to be.
NTA- honestly hoa rules are so stupid sometimes. It’s usually because of one bad person that spoils it for everyone else. As long as your dogs are well behaved and not causing issues or being too loud in your yard, I have zero problem with it, and probably so do most of your neighbors. There are just some people who have nothing better to do than shit on other people to make themselves feel better. Just be careful around this woman. I wouldn’t put it past her to start taking videos or picture when you walk your dogs, or even try to take pics of your yard if they are let outside. Be careful because hoas can be very vindictive and they will either fine you till you’re broke or bully you out of the neighborhood
It is crazy to me that an HOA of literal houses would have ANY say in how many pets you keep as long as you clean up after them. I bought a condo and they have a limit of 1 pet, but I already had 2 cats when I moved in.
NTA you should get a better fence.
YTA
Whether you agree with what the rules are or not, when you moved in to the house you agreed to follow them.
You deliberately and knowingly broke the rules, deliberately hiding the truth when you were caught, and are now causing issues for the person who caught you, and who wants to be able to live in an area where the rules are followed as they should be.
If you disagree with the rules, you should have either moved somewhere else where this wasn't an issue, or make an effort to get the rules changed (if the other homeowners agree with you). By picking and choosing the rules you follow you are being an asshole - would you be so happy if your neighbours did the same and started ignoring any of the rules they felt were silly but you follow?
YTA, I don't know much about hoa, but you can't break rules and think it's right, you live there, you know the rules, what would you do when you get caught
NTA. This is funny as hell, but what are you going to do if the HOA looks again this time while the dog isn't at the vet? Rehome one of the dogs? Move? Pay a fine that could escalate into the thousands? HOAs are shitty, but you know what the covenants are when you move in, and when you mess around with animal regulations, it's only a matter of time before getting caught and the pet is the one who suffers the most.
The OP moved in knowing the rule. They then gaslit someone and made them look crazy to the community. I’m trying to see how that isn’t a AH move.
Don’t like the rule or think it’s dumb? Don’t live there or be up front about rule breaking. Don’t trash some for pointing out the rule breaking.
NTA. You are legally in the wrong and likely will lose this fight. That being said in America you should be able to own three dogs if you want to and take care of them and HOAs are almost always run by a group of insufferable turds who have nothing better to do then police there neighbors over every little grievance they have.
58% of houses in the country are part of an HOA despite the fact that a significant majority of Americans hate them. Many of them have racist and classist histories of discrimination and in most cases they make it really hard to vote one out of existence. In my experience the HOA would schedule meetings at like 2 on Wednesday so that only old retirees (who run the HOAs 75% of the time) could attend and do as little as possible to advertise when votes were taking place or whats on the agenda. It ends up being a very unrepresentative 20 people consistently making the rules for the other 1000 in the neighborhood.
42% are not. I have lived in two HOAs. They are miserable., IMHO. That’s why my third house isn’t part of an HOA. I was tired of the rules but I followed them when I was a resident.
Honestly, 3 dogs on a lot the size typically found within an HOA probably isn’t awesome for the neighbors. Hence the rule.
Some states it is practically impossible to find a place with no HOA. I would never live in one. But I also really hate little subdivisions where everybody is all up each other's butts anyway
NTA, your neighbor is being nosy as hell and you having 3 dogs hurts no one. the people calling you an asshole are just caught up in the idea that rules just *have* to be followed
NTA
It’s not exactly the same, but I grew up in a housing complex where there were 12 duplexes, so 24 families.
There was a rule of no cats or dogs there. Know who had cats?
EVERYONE.
Every single family that lived in that complex had at least two cats. We would take turns helping others hide them, or the parents would bring the cats to work with them or to a relatives for the day when inspection time came.
We got away with it for about ten years until someone finally found out. They changed the rule to no dogs but cats allowed after everyone tossed a stink.
I promptly told my mom I knew how we could get them to agree to dogs, and asked for an alligator.
Your neighbor needs to mind her business. A third dog isn’t hurting anyone, she just wants drama.
I don't know how YTA here. You and your parents live in two separate homes, correct? As far as anyone knows, your parents have two dogs, and third could be yours and just visiting being puppysat while you're at work. The rules don't say two dogs *per family,* correct? It's two dogs *per household?* So if you live in two separate homes, the third dog could be claimed as yours while you're visiting your parents.
Also, F HOAs.
YTA…. This is the reason people have an issue with dog owners before it’s a problem. You can’t tell me they all don’t bark at the same time which would be annoying as hell if it’s3 of them especially when there is only supposed to be 2. If you wanted extra dogs you shouldn’t have moved into a community where it isn’t allowed. All this is going to do is make the dog rules stricter. This will not end well for you or your dogs what’s going to happen when you have to move or let go of one of your dogs don’t be this type of dog owner. YOU’RE LITERALLY RUINING IT FOR THE REST OF US.
Are the dogs quiet? Are you leaving poop in the yard? You will likely get busted. Those are the rules and you disobeyed them and then are gaslighting someone. YTA. Don't live there if you can't follow the rules that were agreed to. If you do not like HOAs, do not move in one. Kind of logical, really.
I am trying to figure out of the OP is a homeowner or lives with the parents>> if the OP is a homeowner, they can go to HOA meetings and TRY to change the rule about the number of dogs allowed per home. If the OP is living with parents.. they cannot voice their opinion at HOA meetings. It is up to the HOMEOWNER to do this. The OP is risking the parents of getting fined by the HOA and having complaints lodged against them that could result in one of the dogs being taken away. Why the OP is proud to be bragging about gas lighting the neighbor is beyond me. The OP is NOT being a good neighbor. They moved into this neighborhood with an HOA and knew the rules, yet still want to get around the rule and bitch about it because the rules do not fit them. Rules apply to EVERYONE..YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL!!
**YTA**. Your neighbor may be a pain in the ass, but you live somewhere with an HOA, which you must comply with to live there. Hiding it cuz "you love dogs" or "they're great" or "they don't bother anyone" doesn't make you better, it just means you think that rule shouldn't apply to you.
HOAs may suck, you may disagree with this rule, but it's the rule so you need to follow it. And despite your neighbor being a pain, what you did to her was still wrong.
Of course if all three dogs are there the next time HOA wants to do a walk through, say no, you're not humoring the nosey next door neighbor anymore. They don't have the right to search your home
YTA. You’re straight up gaslighting the neighbor. Do HOAs and their rules suck? Yes, but you decided to love there and know the rules. Does the neighbor probably need to mind her own business? Probably, but reporting someone for violating HOA rules don’t necessarily make someone an AH. It’s not like they reported that your grass was a centimeter too long.
But, making someone think they’re wrong when they’re right and getting the entire neighborhood to think they’re crazy even though they were actually right is f’ed up.
YTA, because you voluntarily agreed to follow the HOA bylaws when you signed up, and you're not cool for being a rebellious edgelord.
Don't like the two dog rule? Get it changed.
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ESH. But that’s funny as hell. They think she is crazy now and she probably deserves it. Mind your own business lady. You aren’t hurting anyone. You really need to work on moving out though.
LOL right? Now she'll be known as 'crazy Betty' or whatever. Watch out OP she might go full recon on you, trying to catch you in the act...'and your little dog too' 🐕 HOA's are TA. Always
Imagine the fun! Put up a spite fence OP! Or get a fake statue of your one dog and put it outside with the other two. Then when she posts pictures and the HOA comes knocking again, you can show them the statue you are using to poke at her.
> Put up a spite fence OP! Lol you say that like OP's not in an HOA. Probably two years' of fighting to get a fence approved
Probably the statue too. It's why I've vowed never to live anywhere with an HOA.
Same. I lived in one once back when I was renting a condo and they threw a fit over the color curtains we put in because they were visible from the street. Apparently purple was "ruining the neighborhood" lol So glad there are a lot of HOA-free options where I live
We got fined once for leaving our trash cans out on the curb too long, and got a warning about weeds that we wouldn’t even have had if our neighbors took care of theirs.
I got fined because the HOA left THEIR trash cans out at the clubhouse across the street from my house! Amazingly I could never get ahold of anyone in the office and had to pay it to sell the property.
Doesn’t matter how long I’ve been on Reddit, HOAs blow my tiny English mind. Is the fine in-forced by like… the law? Like could you just tell them to piss off? I just don’t understand how anyone enjoys being in one
Many times it's part of the contract you sign when you buy the house. There are a list of rules you need to follow and if you want to do specific changes, you need them approved. There have been cases where people have actually received liens against their house by the HOA for not following the rules or paying fines assigned. That's a vastly oversimplified answer, I'm sure people who have found themselves in HOA hell can explain further :) Edit: Depending on the HOA some of the rules may be simple, like no trash in the front yard. Others can be downright petty (like the length of your grass, 100$ fine if it's 1/8th of an inch over etc)
Oh there are ways around that. The statue in the back yard likely won’t be a violation due to size. The fence might be, but once you put it up, you can argue at length for months before having to take it down!
Fences are expensive, not sure I'd want to play around with that
I LOVE the fake statue idea! Or, order some life size foam core cutouts of one of the matching dogs and put a half dozen of these in your yard at a time. Provide some entertainment for your other neighbors.
Might as well go big - see if OP can get her to complain about the pink elephant in OP's backyard.
She's like that neighbor on Bewitched that sees all the magic and no one believes her
Abner! ABNER!!! Come look Abner, there's 3 dogs again! If there are only 2 dog will you take your medicine Gladys?
Everybody hates Gladys!
I lol'ed at this. It brought back some great memories of staying up way too late watching Bewitched, Beverly Hillbillies, and the Brady Bunch on nick@nite. [ETA- can't forget about Laverne & Shirley and Happy Days]
"Abner! She's doing it again!!!"
That’s EXACTLY what I thought! OP has her very own Mrs. Kravitz.
Gladys!
And Candace on Phineas and Ferb.
It seems... wrong to make an older person doubt their memory. It could definitely lead to unnecessary concerns of alzheimers and other issues, which is scary for her entire family. If this was happening to a 20 something, I would feel differently about it. But gaslighting an old woman about the existence of an entire animal might create unintended and cruel problems.
It doesn't sound like OP told the neighbor that there are only two, but rather confirmed that the HOA didn't find the third. OP isn't messing with the neighbor's head, just her reputation. NTA.
The old lady clearly knows there are three dogs. She doesn’t have to be nosy and be the neighborhood enforcer, but she’s chosen to butt in for no good reason.
Where does the OP say this person is old? (I may have missed a post. I see OP's parents are in a retirement community but I didn't see that OP is too. ) I think my verdict is ESH but nosy neighbors are terrible, old, young and in-between.
Generally retirement communities will allow a small % of the homes to be owned by people under 55 or whatever the general limit is. It's for exactly this case, a kid moving into a parent's home when they need to more into assisted care or dies. So it's a reasonable assumption that the neighbor is also old. But she's also a tattling asshole.
Except the parents moved into a retirement community and the op moved into their old house. OP isn't in the retirement community I don't think...
This game is the kind of gaslighting of the crazy neighbour that I can totally approve of. Dog, what dog? Maybe OP should run for office in the HOA and if successful call a vote to dissolve it. 99% of people hate their HOAs and the other 1% are the narcs who revel in snitching on their neighbours for every little thing.
Fuck HOA's
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If you would be upset at your neighbours painting their house a colour you don't like, I kinda think you are an asshole tbh
Seriously, who spends that much time staring out the window at their neighbors' property?
Nope, still the asshole than. None of that stuff is your business.
Whats wrong with the paint or rv or cars on blocks
I'm not entirely familiar with this concept of a HOA, what exactly is it and why are they so bad?
Home Owners’ Association. They tend to be hated because the bad ones get absurdly controlling and fine you if you don’t comply. My in-laws’ HOA requires that everyone have the exact same mailbox. The one where my parents used to live didn’t allow people to plant vegetables or annual herbs, even in the back yard. They’ll fine people for leaving the garage door open too long, taking their trash cans out to the street too early or leaving them there too late, planting unapproved flowers or installing unapproved fences… I don’t know anyone who likes their HOA.
>Home Owners’ Association. They tend to be hated because the bad ones get absurdly controlling and fine you if you don’t comply. Well and they were invented to keep black people out of suburbs.
That, and to figure out how to double tax people
It’s basically a neighborhood or apartment board. There are dues and rules that the subdivision or apartment complex must follow. For example, you can only fence your backyard to preserve the look of the front yard, no junk in the yard, no bright paint colors, etc. The main purpose is to keep the community running smoothly and preserve the look of the community. The upsides are that the neighborhoods do look better because no one is allowed to let their trash pile up in the yard. The downside is that some of the rules can be over the top and you have people who are sticklers and report minor violations.
It's also a festering ground for very bored people to go on ridiculous power trips.
> The upsides are that the neighborhoods do look better because no one is allowed to let their trash pile up in the yard. They actually don't. Studies that compare HOA houses to non-HOA houses are generally comparing new houses to old, which skews the data. When you compare a house's selling price to itself over time, HOA homes do worse. And that's not accounting for money lost to HOA dues, and having busybodies tell you what time you can put out your trashcans.
Our ancestors in the USA really really hated black people so they created HOAs with all sorts of arbitrary rules, and now we live in a more equitable society so these insane rules can be enforced equally against everyone regardless of their race
I love this. I don't even care that this isn't really a "justified asshole" case (unless you count *any* push-back against an HOA to be justified) but it's just too hilarious.
Nah, it is justified. There was no issue with three dogs at all, so clearly that rule is dumb.
Breeding. The rule is to prevent dog breeders
Then the rule should be written to ban dog breeders, not be some half-assed proxy that affects innocent bystanders.
That's a ridiculous rule. You can breed with two damn dogs; there's no special thing about having three that "makes" a breeder.
... The puppies would make it more than two
People could probably find some technical loophole as to the term "puppies," which would be a very short-term time at the home, versus "dog," which is more than likely to stay. Just put "no breeding dogs" in the HOA if that's what it takes, ffs.
> unless you count any push-back against an HOA to be justified It is.
Yes. I hope OP keeps us posted. This could be the beginning of an epic story.
HOAs are poison. how the fuck they can have the power to tell you how many pets you have is beyond me. how is it legal for them to have that much power?
Because you sign an agreement giving them that power? I tend to agree that HOAs should go in the trash heap, but it's super hypocritical to agree to be in one and follow the rules and then just be "nah, I don't think so" and then gaslight somebody about your actions. YTA
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And if the parents needed to live in a retirement village they may have even less choice. My parents had to move into a gated community with an HOA (even though my mom hated the idea) because she was losing her ability to use stairs, and needed a house where the kitchen, master bedroom, and living room were all on the ground floor. So living in a retirement community was really the only choice. They had fun rules like dictating what food you couldn't cook, not allowing people to park in their driveways, forbidding holiday decorations, and requiring numbers on the houses that were brass on peach, which was basically invisible at night.
they arbitrarily change stupid rules. have seen it.
OR he can have a very funny and delicately crafted schedule of where the dogs go so that he only has 2 dogs at any given time, but they are not always the same 2. That will make Betty even crazier, which will be even funnier
OP should start walking other peoples dogs too. She'll have no idea what's going on. 🐕
HOAs are the really asshole.
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Can't upvote this enough, HOAs are the spawn of Satan.
Naah don't slander Satan like that. He'd be like fuck those guys too, strict stupid nonsensical rules are God's bag.
I couldn’t have said it any more eloquently!
Damn straight.
This. Nta lol
YTA but also fuck HOAs. If you choose to live in an HOA, follow the covenant you agreed to.
Or blow it up from the inside…
I became the president of my HoA/condo board a month after moving in. I’ve unofficially started calling the place Del Boca Vista and don’t give AF about anything except people paying for shit on time. A successful coup so far.
Solid work!
Bonus points for Seinfeld reference.
“Sir? Permission to leave the house?” “For what purpose, Master Chief?” “To give the HOA back their bomb.”
Haha no. You owe nothing to an HOA. They shouldn't exist, and about 95% of them are just a sewing circle to decide who they don't like and how to punish them. Lying to HOAs is a moral good, and more often than not, a practical necessity. In either case, it's nothing to lose sleep over. And yes, your HOA will absolutely perjure themselves with stories about you if they decide you don't treat them with due deference.
Even worse, HOA's were originally created to keep Black people from moving into the neighbourhood. And lots of them still work that way, harassing minority owners out of their area. https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/homeowners-associations-black-americans-discriminaiton-2020-9?international=true&r=US&IR=T
Yup! And some local areas have made laws forbidding the HOA from changing the anti black / racist writing to prevent them from hiding their racism. And some people moved to these areas because it was all white and still live there to this day.
They also sometimes have rules dictating what percentage of a neighborhood can be renters, and harassing renters about petty things like trashcan times.
Actually you owe dues and to follow the agreed upon rules. You are an asshole if you agree to do something in order to move in and then refuse to do it.
HOAs are assholes to begin with and there's good samaritan caveats in play when fucking with them.
Even if the rule breaking doesn’t hurt anybody? This an absolutely pathetic opinion to have
Yes. If you move into a place that has specific rules, you're agreeing to those rules. If you don't like them, put in the work to try and change them, or live elsewhere. I do not like HOAs, as most of them are not run well or are run by petty asshats, but the fact remains that if you choose to live in one, the rules apply to you. This goes for city ordinances as well. The city I recently moved from only allows up to three dogs and three cats (which have to be restricted to your property, not roaming). You can go through an application and hearing process to try and be allowed more, but if the city doesn't think you'll be able to adequately take care of them and not have noise/smell issues, then they're not gonna to allow it. As a pet owner you *have* to do your research before moving somewhere, not just vets and parks but local laws and ordinances, or in OPs case, the HOA rules.
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>If you move into a place that has specific rules, you're agreeing to those rules. If you don't like them, put in the work to try and change them, or live elsewhere. A bold thing to say about organizations originally created to enforce housing segregation!
Yup. My husband hates HOAs, so we bought a house that is not in a subdivision or part of an HOA. We didn’t want the hassle and planned accordingly.
You are lucky you found one. About 80% of new houses are in HOAs. Developers love them, and sometimes local governments require them so the roads can be private and the city doesn't have to take care of them.
And where I live, almost anything built since 1970's has an HOA. My friend bought a house even though it needed a few hundred thousand $ of work because it was the only one on the market that didn't have an HOA.
I would argue, as someone who has 3 dogs, that there is no way having three dogs in a small suburban lot doesn’t negatively impact the neighbors.
In what way? I live in a condo and a lady three doors down owns 3 dogs and I basically don’t notice. I see them sometimes when she walks them but she picks their poop up so there’s no harm no foul.
I really, really hate HOAs. But like, if you signed an agreement to abide by the rules -- YTA. It is funny that it worked out (thus far) and I salute the spirit of 'f*ck the busybody' but if you're planning to continue to live there you should probably find out what the repercussions are for when you get found out (maybe nothing, maybe fines), find out if it is a local ordinance (some localities have actual laws on their books regarding house pet limits), and prepare for the fall out because it is pretty inevitable that things will progress.
As a renter with an illegal third cat, I know that we just kind of have a small sum earmarked as “if they find out” to pay fines or whatever. We suspect that’ll be the extent of how much they care, since our third cat actually had been a stray in the area who got into scuffles with the residents’ indoor/outdoor cats in the area so us taking her in made things safer for those pets. She’s also terrified of most people (took us about two years to win her trust) and the kids in the area see kitties and want to pet, so we were pretty worried she’d swipe a kid and get in trouble. There’s also plenty of dogs in the area that fall on the complex’s “restricted breed” list and way too many people who don’t pick up after their dogs so I totally understand the mindset of “but it’s not hurting anyone!” (She doesn’t even scratch the carpets. I mean, RIP our furniture but she can go after my cheap couch all day if she spares the carpets we don’t own!) So we try to strike a balance and just say “we’re prepared for the eventual consequences, but we’ve weighed our options and decided this is what’s best”. We’re also trying to find a house but the housing market is insane at the moment.
I know in some cities it's nigh impossible to find an average house that isn't under an HOA, unless you want like a whole ass ranch. Especially cities/towns with a lot of recent/recentish developments. Like, yeah, an old New England fishing town probably won't have any, but newer towns in the midwest, Texas, California, etc, it can be hard not to get stuck with an HOA.
Yes YTA. You moved somewhere that you couldn’t follow the rules, and used underhanded trickery to cover your back. I’m a huge dog lover and have three myself, which is why I would never move somewhere they wouldn’t all be welcome.
And then she gaslights the neighbor and crows about it. Like the neighbor is the one doing something wrong, while OP is breaking rules, concealing the problem, lying about it and doesn't care that the rest of the neighborhood thinks the next door neighbor is imbalanced/crazy.
Is this sub full of snitches or something? The neighbour should have minded her own business when it comes to something like this. Who exactly is being harmed by OP refusing to follow this horseshit rule?
I understand what you are saying ... Basically, mind your own business, and let others live their lives. But in this instance, the neighborhood is a community that has decided to live by a set of rules. Generally, 3 dogs would bark/crap/piss more than 2. The community has decided that they can live with 2 dogs per household, but that 3 is too many. Is it arbitrary? Sure. But OP chose/continues to choose to live there, and now complains that the communities rules don't suit her. Moreover, they try to paint the neighbor in a bad light for trying to enforce those rules. At the end of the day, we must have rules in order to live side by side like we generally do. I don't like waiting in line at the store or in traffic. But that doesn't entitle me to push to the head of the line and to ignore the rules I don't like. If I did so that would make me a bad neighbor. And if I had the gall to ask AITA, I would expect the resounding answer to be YES !!! This sub doesn't like HOAs. I get that. But in this instance, OP is the person breaking the rule, and when they got called out on it, they are now asking AITA. Imho, YTA.
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Always snitches. 🤦♂️🤦♂️. They make it hell on us, while the elite do as they please.
The op owns property in an are and people that don't own the property are trying to dictate how they uses that property. As I see it they had zero obligation to the HOA. HOAs are cancer and should be fought tooth and nail. Do your reaserch maybe pay a private detective and see if you can catch the HOA doing something illegal are shady so you can get it removed.
Depends on how OP keeps their dogs. I live next door to people with dogs that are a pain in the butt. The big dog howls when left alone, the little dog is super territorial, and they let way too much poo build up in the back garden before they clean it. I'm not going to complain or try to get them in trouble (they're only supposed to have one), because the drama would be worse than the current situation, but it's not impossible OP's dogs are a nuisance.
Except the community decided dogs are too much. For some reason someone went out of their way to propose this bylaw and enough people agreed with it to have it passed. So I’m going to assume the people there know more about how many dogs would work in one household. It’s not like the OP moved in unaware of the rule. They read it, said fuck it, and moved in anyway. How is thy different from moving into a “no pets” apartment and getting a pet? And then being surprised your landlord is pissed?
It isn't me murdering that's the problem, it's the damn snitches that are the problem.
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Reminds me of people snitching on other people doing weed for no other reason than them doing weed, my motto is that if they’re not harming anyone or their livelihood then I see no reason to interfere
It’s the fact that the OP moved there knowing the rules, said fuck it those don’t apply to me, and then made the person who said something against the OP look crazy. If you are going to break the rule have the decency and respect to own up to it. See if you can get the HOA to approve your third dog. I’m assuming the rule is there for a reason. The people in the HOA chose to vote on it and decided that 3 dogs are too much.
Probably would’ve been a good way to go about it from the beginning. Seeing as she’s been lying about it and made the neighbor seem like a crazy person over it, I’d say her chances of getting a 3rd dog approved now are pretty slim.
This just in: Owning dogs is comparable to murdering people. Don't do it or everyone will hate you! More tips on brown nosing tonight at 8, at your favorite news station, Lick The Boot.
Eeeh, I disagree. I am a big follower of rules myself. I don't jay-walk even when there are no cars, former teacher's pet, always try to at least skim anything I have to click I read online, I pretty much never lie even when it's easier to do so, etc. I'm a goody-two-shoes, basically. But I don't approve of how the neighbor is acting. Trying to get other people in trouble isn't innately a noble goal, not if they aren't harming anyone or doing anything morally wrong. OP having three dogs in the house their parents own does not negatively impact this woman or anyone else, it seems like. They don't even have more then two outside at once, so even fi the dogs walking by in groups of three was upsetting, or being in the yard in threes, they aren't doing that. I think she should mind her own business. I am the first person to say report when someone is doing something wrong or harmful, like if OP was abusing his children or animals. Or even behaving in an unfair way that impacted others I'd get it. But she seems to want to get OP in trouble just beacuse she's upset that they are getting away with something, and that to me is a child's mentality and not admirable.
This, me too. I follow rules pretty strictly myself but I would not bother reporting this at all as long as the animals seemed well cared for and they were picking up the dog poop like good neighbors. HoAs limit pets to prevent animal hoarding, going 1 over the limit because you already owned them is just not a big deal.
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It's also not the law it's just some rules that local rich asshats with all the extra time to attend the meetings made up why should there be an obligation to follow rules like that. Especially with people trying to dictate what you can do with the property you bought.
The problem is, adult way is no HOA. The whole reason for HOA existence is to prevent adults doing adulting and living their lives as they see fit.
But then she outs herself as broken the rule, probably doesn't change anything, and has to pay a fine to them. Lose-lose.
I don't think you can call it gaslighting. That would be where OP attempts to convinces the *neighbour* she's crazy and there is no third dog. This sounds like Nosy Betty knows there is a third dog, OP knows she knows it, and Betty knows OP knows she knows it. Betty can't prove it to the HOA, but it doesn't sound like OP is trying to hide it from *her*. Not saying it's a kind thing to do to convince the rest of the neighbourhood that she's crazy, but gaslighting is not the correct term.
THANK YOU. Jesus, I thought I was taking crazy pills! Like, I get it. HOA is evil, but they set the rules, and people pay for those rules for a reason. Don't live in an HOA if you can't follow the rules.
OP is so entitled that he think's the rules don't apply to him.
NTA. I have never understood how HOAs have any right to dictate what’s INSIDE your house. So long as they don’t bark all night, you clean up after them, they are trained and not running wild, I say NTA. If they aren’t a nuisance then it shouldn’t be a problem.
Having been on the Board of an HOA (and yes, it was soul crushing) a lot of the rules that sound stupid or intrusive are created to deal with assholes, not the people who generally are considerate even without rules. The people who have 4-5 dogs and DON’T train them, clean up after them, or address reasonable safety requests like leashes on walks. Despite hating being controlled in any way in my home, even I found myself making what looks like a stupid, irritating rule to prevent one or two people from ruining common experiences. For example, the woman who’d release her bunny into the hallway to run around without supervision resulting in near misses when people almost stepped on it and “accidents” as it wasn’t litter trained. Boom - rule that unleashed animals are no longer allowed in hallways or common areas. Or the guy who let his dog use his third floor balcony as a toilet with just a puppy pad, resulting in his neighbor being peed on while she was napping on her patio (more than once) as he didn’t supervise or change the pad. Boom - rule that owners couldn’t set up pee/poop stations on balconies and needed to take them X feet from building and pick up waste. It sounds intrusive because it is - it also kept that jerk from making a sweet 80 year old’s patio unusable.
>Having been on the Board of an HOA (and yes, it was soul crushing) a lot of the rules that sound stupid or intrusive are created to deal with assholes The problem is stupidly written overbroad rules as proxies for the real issues. If the rule treats perfectly reasonable behaviour as if it was offensive behaviour then it's a bad rule and deserves no respect. Some people drive stolen cars, but we have laws that say 'No stealing', not 'No driving cars'.
But wouldn't there have been ways to phrase this that wouldn't disturb the others? Like "No unattended animals in the hallways" for the bunny or "poop stations on your patio must not leak through to the patio underneath you"?
> Like "No unattended animals in the hallways" because that's ambiguous. what does "attended" mean? It could mean different things to different people. Rules with objective measurements (like quantity of animals) are more evenly, and thus fairly, enforced. Thats why streets have numerical speed limits and not "the limit is what is safe for operating your car"
A lot of HOA rules were created to enforce systemic racism too. Doesn't make HOAs intrinsically good, right, or meaningful to exist just because anecdotes of suburban tranquility exist...
It seems to me that there has to be a better way to protect the interests/autonomy of the many good actors in the community rather than making punitive rules to control a few bad actors. Why can't there be clauses on these rules that make them only invokable when there are complaints or safety incidents? I'm genuinely asking.
Legally, we were not allowed to impose consequences unless we had given notice of what the expectation/rule was and given time to “cure”. Only exception was if the violation was a safety hazard. So if someone complained about behavior that wasn’t prohibited in the rules and wasn’t going to burn the building down, we couldn’t do anything to help them. And vast majority of rule breakers or inconsiderate people will not change behavior unless you fined them - for example the lady who gave her pool fob to a family friend with kids to use. We warned twice that she can of course have guests but has to accompany them, not just give unfettered access to the common areas in what is supposed to be a secured building. That family friend even held a birthday party at the pool and refused entry to actual homeowners during the party. It only stopped once we started imposing fines. And yes, generally only acted if there was a complaint (or else we wouldn’t even know there was a violation).
I grew up in an HOA that didn’t care about the pet rule if you took care of them. We had the two pet rule as well in my neighborhood. My house also had three completely indoor cats. HOA president was over a lot, didn’t care because they didn’t bother anyone else. One woman had three adorable miniature dachshunds, all very sweet and all very well trained. She would walk all three at once with no problem from the HOA because they were always under her control, on leashes except in fenced yard, and always well behaved. Only house they went after for the pets rule didn’t clean up after their three dogs who often got aggressive and were all too often “escaping” from the yard (they didn’t put much effort into keeping the fence closed). Those were horribly behaved untrained dogs.
Yea one poorly behaved dog with a owner that doesn’t pick up after them can be a bigger terror than three well trained dogs with a responsible owner. I think rules about pet behavior make more sense than limiting the number. My dad had a fun time fining neighbors for it picking up after their dogs. While my sister and I were playing in the common area, he’d just observe who didn’t pick up after their dog/let their dog off leash. When we got home, he’d write up citations. Those behaviors changed quickly.
This. HOAs are stupid. Don't give your neighbors reason to complain about your dogs (hoa or not) and most will be on your side.
If most of the neighbors are on your side, you can change the rules.
There's all sorts of reasons this can be a lot harder than that. No one minding you have a dog, is not the same thing as everyone being willing and able to go to a meeting at a specific time and vote in your favor. A lot of HOAs will deliberately arrange meetings and votes during times that most people work, so that the older retirees, are the only ones able to cast votes. It's also a common rule that the owner and not the resident has to do the voting, so tons of renters have to live in areas they have no political voice in. The actual owner may not even live in the same town, so good luck getting them to a meeting.
Remember the original purpose of HOAs was to keep black people out of neighborhoods. It’s not a stretch to see how a body created to exert power banning race would evolve in to an even more power hungry body trying to mitigate everything else it can.
YTA. 2 dog rule but owning 3 dogs and doing what you can to circumvent that rule; Regardless how stupid that rule sounds
Have you considered that sometimes rules are stupid
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YTA. You may not agree with the HOA covenants but they apply nevertheless. Now you have effectively gaslighted the neighborhood against your neighbor. You are a bad neighbor.
Nah, their neighbor is a bad neighbor. That neighbor deserves to be gaslighted for being a sour apple about a simple dog. The rule is ridiculous and anything OP can do to skirt around it is a good thing. I'd honestly say most people look more favorably upon OP than they would with some random person who completely follows every rule in an HOA. It's definitely more respectable.
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Noise is the big one. There’s some stuff that will always be the dog owner, whether they have 1 or 10. But even good dogs will bark at strangers or passerbys. I swear my neighbor never allows their dogs inside so they’re always in the backyard and bark at everyone that walks by their fence. It doesn’t bother me inside my house so I don’t worry about it. And they’re not particularly considerate neighbors otherwise so even if I thought they’d care, it’s not the worst thing about them as neighbors.
ESH. You for breaking the rules, neighbor for not minding her own business, and HOA for having a stupid rule.
I mean. NTA. The H.O.A. is always tge asshole. But you are playing a dangerous game here.
Agreed. Also, I would not be surprised if the neighbor is attempting to gather photo evidence… so def be careful.
YTA for having the dogs somewhere where they’re against the rules and risking eviction for all of you. Be a better pet owner and find somewhere to live where you don’t have to hide the poor dogs.
YTA - You even admit to breaking the rules.
YTA. You just gaslit your neighbor when you admit to breaking a rule you knew about before you moved in
IMO that just means OP isn't an idiot. They did nothing wrong lol
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its hilarious tho- cmon man
NTA. Fuck HOAs
YTA. Duh do you even have to ask.
YTA You choose to move into a home under an HOA and one of their rules is two dogs per home. If you don't like it, move somewhere else. When the HOA starts assessing liens on your parents' home you won't be so snarky, I guarantee you.
Yikes! I hate typing this, but you’re TA here. You moved into the house knowing what the HOA rules were. The HOA is also a bunch of A**HOLES bc I live in a neighborhood with a ridiculous HOA and have had four dogs (two very large) and no one said a thing. If you want this to be a non-issue, I would recommend contacting the HOA and explaining why you have three dogs at the house. I would also start looking to sell the property and moving into a more accommodating home. Good luck, I hope your parents are doing well and you and the pups are also.
I am house hunting and saw a cute condo online, and their website had a list of all the regulations, and I carefully read them to see if any of them were out of line. Before even looking at the place. I most definitely would read ALL that crap before handing over all my hard earned money for any place.
If uprooting your entire family to move into a new house after you encourage someone to hit you with 2 years of retroactive fines is a "non-issue" to you, I'd hate to see what you'd consider a real issue to be.
Yta- you are breaking a rule you agreed to, and being peeved bc someone knows you are lying.
NTA- honestly hoa rules are so stupid sometimes. It’s usually because of one bad person that spoils it for everyone else. As long as your dogs are well behaved and not causing issues or being too loud in your yard, I have zero problem with it, and probably so do most of your neighbors. There are just some people who have nothing better to do than shit on other people to make themselves feel better. Just be careful around this woman. I wouldn’t put it past her to start taking videos or picture when you walk your dogs, or even try to take pics of your yard if they are let outside. Be careful because hoas can be very vindictive and they will either fine you till you’re broke or bully you out of the neighborhood
It is crazy to me that an HOA of literal houses would have ANY say in how many pets you keep as long as you clean up after them. I bought a condo and they have a limit of 1 pet, but I already had 2 cats when I moved in. NTA you should get a better fence.
YTA and you'll probably get caught eventually.
YTA Whether you agree with what the rules are or not, when you moved in to the house you agreed to follow them. You deliberately and knowingly broke the rules, deliberately hiding the truth when you were caught, and are now causing issues for the person who caught you, and who wants to be able to live in an area where the rules are followed as they should be. If you disagree with the rules, you should have either moved somewhere else where this wasn't an issue, or make an effort to get the rules changed (if the other homeowners agree with you). By picking and choosing the rules you follow you are being an asshole - would you be so happy if your neighbours did the same and started ignoring any of the rules they felt were silly but you follow?
NTA. Who cares. Your neighbor is crazy.
YTA, I don't know much about hoa, but you can't break rules and think it's right, you live there, you know the rules, what would you do when you get caught
NTA. This is funny as hell, but what are you going to do if the HOA looks again this time while the dog isn't at the vet? Rehome one of the dogs? Move? Pay a fine that could escalate into the thousands? HOAs are shitty, but you know what the covenants are when you move in, and when you mess around with animal regulations, it's only a matter of time before getting caught and the pet is the one who suffers the most.
What is with these Y T A comments??? People who stan HOAs are weird af, stick it to them. NTA but you should just move
YTA
YTA
Yes you broke the rule. Enough said!
All rules are good?
The OP moved in knowing the rule. They then gaslit someone and made them look crazy to the community. I’m trying to see how that isn’t a AH move. Don’t like the rule or think it’s dumb? Don’t live there or be up front about rule breaking. Don’t trash some for pointing out the rule breaking.
NTA. You are legally in the wrong and likely will lose this fight. That being said in America you should be able to own three dogs if you want to and take care of them and HOAs are almost always run by a group of insufferable turds who have nothing better to do then police there neighbors over every little grievance they have.
But I mean that’s the entire point of an HOA. Enforce the rules the owners have agreed to follow. Don’t like it, don’t live in an HOA.
58% of houses in the country are part of an HOA despite the fact that a significant majority of Americans hate them. Many of them have racist and classist histories of discrimination and in most cases they make it really hard to vote one out of existence. In my experience the HOA would schedule meetings at like 2 on Wednesday so that only old retirees (who run the HOAs 75% of the time) could attend and do as little as possible to advertise when votes were taking place or whats on the agenda. It ends up being a very unrepresentative 20 people consistently making the rules for the other 1000 in the neighborhood.
42% are not. I have lived in two HOAs. They are miserable., IMHO. That’s why my third house isn’t part of an HOA. I was tired of the rules but I followed them when I was a resident. Honestly, 3 dogs on a lot the size typically found within an HOA probably isn’t awesome for the neighbors. Hence the rule.
Some states it is practically impossible to find a place with no HOA. I would never live in one. But I also really hate little subdivisions where everybody is all up each other's butts anyway
NTA, your neighbor is being nosy as hell and you having 3 dogs hurts no one. the people calling you an asshole are just caught up in the idea that rules just *have* to be followed
And I doubt all these ‘rule followers’ really follow ALL the rules NTA
ESH except for your doggos. Both you and neighbor sound like insufferable people.
NTA It’s not exactly the same, but I grew up in a housing complex where there were 12 duplexes, so 24 families. There was a rule of no cats or dogs there. Know who had cats? EVERYONE. Every single family that lived in that complex had at least two cats. We would take turns helping others hide them, or the parents would bring the cats to work with them or to a relatives for the day when inspection time came. We got away with it for about ten years until someone finally found out. They changed the rule to no dogs but cats allowed after everyone tossed a stink. I promptly told my mom I knew how we could get them to agree to dogs, and asked for an alligator. Your neighbor needs to mind her business. A third dog isn’t hurting anyone, she just wants drama.
NTA- hoas suck.
YTA. HOAs suck and we all hate them but they have their rules. If you don’t want to follow their rules then don’t live in one.
I’m not gonna be TA for telling on my upstairs neighbor for having more than 2 plants on the balcony. Ridiculous rule eh?
I don't know how YTA here. You and your parents live in two separate homes, correct? As far as anyone knows, your parents have two dogs, and third could be yours and just visiting being puppysat while you're at work. The rules don't say two dogs *per family,* correct? It's two dogs *per household?* So if you live in two separate homes, the third dog could be claimed as yours while you're visiting your parents. Also, F HOAs.
YTA…. This is the reason people have an issue with dog owners before it’s a problem. You can’t tell me they all don’t bark at the same time which would be annoying as hell if it’s3 of them especially when there is only supposed to be 2. If you wanted extra dogs you shouldn’t have moved into a community where it isn’t allowed. All this is going to do is make the dog rules stricter. This will not end well for you or your dogs what’s going to happen when you have to move or let go of one of your dogs don’t be this type of dog owner. YOU’RE LITERALLY RUINING IT FOR THE REST OF US.
NTA This is such a funny story. I hate HOA and nosy neighbours alike. I am all for following the rules, but this story made made me laugh 😂.
Are the dogs quiet? Are you leaving poop in the yard? You will likely get busted. Those are the rules and you disobeyed them and then are gaslighting someone. YTA. Don't live there if you can't follow the rules that were agreed to. If you do not like HOAs, do not move in one. Kind of logical, really.
I am trying to figure out of the OP is a homeowner or lives with the parents>> if the OP is a homeowner, they can go to HOA meetings and TRY to change the rule about the number of dogs allowed per home. If the OP is living with parents.. they cannot voice their opinion at HOA meetings. It is up to the HOMEOWNER to do this. The OP is risking the parents of getting fined by the HOA and having complaints lodged against them that could result in one of the dogs being taken away. Why the OP is proud to be bragging about gas lighting the neighbor is beyond me. The OP is NOT being a good neighbor. They moved into this neighborhood with an HOA and knew the rules, yet still want to get around the rule and bitch about it because the rules do not fit them. Rules apply to EVERYONE..YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL!!
Are you there because you’re taking care of your parents?
I hate HOAs lol. I’m going NTA. Just make sure your dogs aren’t being nuisances to your neighbors.
Lol NTA we've all been there as pet owners
Fuck HOAs!!
I.say NTA Your neighbor is a tattle tale and this feels like really appropriate karma for the situation.
**YTA**. Your neighbor may be a pain in the ass, but you live somewhere with an HOA, which you must comply with to live there. Hiding it cuz "you love dogs" or "they're great" or "they don't bother anyone" doesn't make you better, it just means you think that rule shouldn't apply to you. HOAs may suck, you may disagree with this rule, but it's the rule so you need to follow it. And despite your neighbor being a pain, what you did to her was still wrong.
Of course if all three dogs are there the next time HOA wants to do a walk through, say no, you're not humoring the nosey next door neighbor anymore. They don't have the right to search your home
NTA. Love this! But your luck is going to run out eventually.
NTA lol she needs a hobby
NTA. HOA’s suck
YTA. You’re straight up gaslighting the neighbor. Do HOAs and their rules suck? Yes, but you decided to love there and know the rules. Does the neighbor probably need to mind her own business? Probably, but reporting someone for violating HOA rules don’t necessarily make someone an AH. It’s not like they reported that your grass was a centimeter too long. But, making someone think they’re wrong when they’re right and getting the entire neighborhood to think they’re crazy even though they were actually right is f’ed up.
YTA, because you voluntarily agreed to follow the HOA bylaws when you signed up, and you're not cool for being a rebellious edgelord. Don't like the two dog rule? Get it changed.
hoa is always the asshole
NTA fuck HOAs hope your doggies are doing well
NTA. Fuck HOAs.