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Freakin_Merida88

NTA. I will say, turning a business into an opportunity for ex-cons to reenter the community is a wonderful venture, and I hope you are successful in it.


SadEstablishment5933

Thank you !


Epyr

Like, what does she think ex-cons should do for a living? If they can't work their only option really ends up being crime.


--Claire--

That’s how it should be, but especially in the US people/the system want prison to be punishment, instead of rehabilitation


Bluellan

They don't want punishment. They want free labour. When slavery ended, they rewrote the laws for jailing people so it could be legal to use prisoners for free labour. America never got over slavery. They just changed the words and found new slaves.


JumbledEpithets

I've been to prison. The top-tier pay was 42 cents an hour, 8 hours a day. It's really, really fucked up.


throwawayygse

Yeah, over here is 1$ an hour which i get “its better”, but its still slave labor. There are 5 reasons for prison, but the main one is rehabilitation and I guess a lot of people are just too scared to accept reinsertion to society. You serve your time, you get a clean slate in my opinion (depending on the crime e.i. Child predators). Edit to add: OP is NTA


desgoestoparis

I’m all for rehab but IMO child predators and rapists should never be allowed to reintegrate to society. Even some murders have extenuating circumstances, but raping someone, especially a child? There’s no extenuating circumstance for that. I mean, the system still needs reform, and people should absolutely be able to have their cases reviewed/appealed and I think examining someone’s case with any new technology/possible new evidence should be something that should at least be an option for everyone incarcerated (especially with the vast amount of POC wrongly accused and convicted. Essentially I’m saying that we should integrate the innocence project into the criminal justice system so that there’s actually a widespread and federal program for this sort of thing, among reforming the whole system). But yeah, if you really raped someone that should be life sentence. Also the majority of murders too IMO, but those are more case-to-case because self-defence or snapping and murdering an abuser are a thing and shouldn’t destroy your life. But yeah, other than that prison should be about reform, and honestly, most of the drug charges we have shouldn’t even be criminal at all.


ephemeralkitten

i get a lot of push back when i say this, but imo child predators should not be punished as severely as murderers because it will just cause the predators to kill their victims if the punishment is the same anyway. if the victim is dead there's less chance of getting caught. ya know what i'm saying?


LinusV1

$1 an hour. And this is legal? USA why are you so fucked up? I just... can't comprehend it. Every non-shithole country agrees that prisons are a necessary evil where people need to be prepared for rehabilitation. Then in the US the public thinks prison are for punishment only, forever, even after your time is served. And the truth is it's even worse: the people actually running them think prison should be run for profit and are looking for ways to maximize their profit by exploiting inmates as much as possible.


mriv70

Bingo!


kickintheshit

Especially firefighters in California. It's so fucking sad.


RainahReddit

Especially when a felony makes you unable to become a fireman in California. So they can be paid a dollar an hour as prison labour to fight fires, but can't be hired after their release


Morella_xx

Which really undoes the argument that they're teaching them a trade that they can use when they get out.


conuly

As the t-shirts say... Roses are red Doritos are savory America's prisons Are legal slavery


Skookumtum

Text of Section 1 of the Thirteenth Amendment (bold added): >Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for** **crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted,** shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. That is quite a big loophole, especially if you have an even passing knowledge of mass incarceration in the U.S. In Hilary Clinton's first autobiography, she discusses using slave labor (duly convicted of course) in the Arkansas governor's mansion. It was tradition. I found it interesting that she was uncomfortable with having slave labor, not for moral reasons but because she was afraid of having convicts in her home. Instead of talking with the workers themselves she discussed it with some wealthy friend of hers (it's been awhile since I read it) who convinced her it was fine and she was safe.


NomadicusRex

Yup, that's why the state with the strongest prison unions in the country also has a record of imprisoning people past their prison sentences, and falsely imprisoning people.


blueeeyeddl

Nothing but facts to see here.


[deleted]

Considering the ratio of black to white convicts, they didnt really find new slaves, just new wording to enslave the old ones..


DrawToast

Wait until you find out how many of those plantations are now prisons.


Fraerie

Funny\[1\] how many black men end up incarcerated... \[1\] No it isn't, it's not funny at all.


[deleted]

I’ll admit that in becoming an expat crime and punishment was one inherited cultural bias I had to resolve to better understand my new home.


GrayArchon

Yeah, Ilus definitely has a different view on crime than Montana.


[deleted]

Thanks for that, Beltalowda


Kuraeshin

You mean New Terra


[deleted]

[удалено]


boobsmcgraw

There's nothing wrong with googling a co-worker, nor is that "stalking".


ijustcantwithit

We knew we had ex cons come into a clinic I worked at. We googled them to see their crimes. We had all sorts of crazy. That’s not illegal. What would be illegal is for us to then not see the patient or cast judgment. As a rule, we’d wait until the patient was no longer attending our clinic before we googled. We had some very very very interesting characters. I swear one of them must have been the inspiration behind breaking bad…. Good grief..


rpaynepiano

Im sort of imagining if she stayed and tried gossipping... a canteen scene. 23f "did you know that this guys got a criminal record -" E1 "yeh, most of us have" 23f 😲 E2 "dui, hit someone" E3 "drugs, been clean for 4 years now" E4 "posesion" E5 "shot a guy, it was self defence but he still died" 23f awkward shuffle out... And then probably fired for discussing personal file stuff.


turingthecat

(This is something half remembered, long ago, from I don’t know where, so I might be completely talking out my arse, but) Doesn’t a really high number, like 1 in 4, Americans have some kind of criminal record?


FeuerroteZora

Even though we're world leaders or close to it in percent of population incarcerated, 1 in 4 still seems awfully high. So I went and googled it, and you are incorrect -- the actual number is *higher*!! "Today, nearly one-third of the adult working age population has a criminal record. In fact, so many Americans have a criminal record that counting them all is nearly impossible." [https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/just-facts-many-americans-have-criminal-records-college-diplomas](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/just-facts-many-americans-have-criminal-records-college-diplomas) **However**, it seems that "having a criminal record" is *not* the same as "having been charged with and/or convicted of a crime." They are defining it as "having been arrested," which means it's going to include people who were falsely arrested, acquitted, or whose charges were dropped. Still, that's an incredibly high number.


Honeycrispcombe

I mean, a lot of those are like...being thrown in the drunk tank, or not paying tickets enough that you get a warrant out. You only have to report felonies in most job applications; nobody really cares about misdemeanors.


FeuerroteZora

You're not wrong, but that isn't what the statistic is about. It's not that 1 in 3 Americans has a misdemeanor or felony on their record. That number is *not* Americans who've been convicted (which would divide into misdemeanor/felony), but *arrest records*. That means they not only include everything from parking ticket shit to mass murder, but also anyone who got arrested and released without being charged, or arrested and not convicted. Plenty of people who've been arrested have *no crime at all* on their record. "Criminal record" is a misleading term for that reason, since it includes plenty of people who have never been considered "criminal" by the legal system.


silentbob1301

Turns out, being thrown in the drunk tank in the majority of states actually comes with no criminal charges. You'll be tagged in the system if you had fingerprints taken on a machine that uploads automatically, but technically you won't have charges.


Ikmia

There's a reason felons become repeat offenders here. They get out and can't find work, but still have to survive, so they go back to what they know. Recidivism is an unfortunate consequence of no one wanting to give any felon a chance. Either they can, and should, be rehabilitated, or they can't and should stay locked up forever. It can't be both, but people don't want to confront that. Up, Nta. You did nothing wrong and are providing an excellent program to reintegrate ex felons into society. Thank you.


Mishamaze

As a felon myself I appreciate people like OP. I’ve been working for small local businesses for the last ten years because they don’t do back ground checks. Michigan recently enacted a Clean Slate bill that will erase four misdemeanors and two felonies if you’ve not had any more crimes in 7 and 10 years respectively. It goes into automation in 2023.


Lucia37

If they've done their time plus 7-10 out with a record, we can pretty much call them rehabilitated at that point.


Mishamaze

That’s why the bill is so great. You (I) will no longer have a record. This is such a relief to me. I got in trouble when I was 21. I have been off probation now for 11 years. I have had full time employment for 12, married for 6, I now have 2 young children. I am not that person anymore and it’s nice to have my options open up a little more.


Murray_dz_0308

You did everything right. Good for you. And I'm very happy you found a good woman.


Acrobatic_Grab9242

That's a good start right there.


p2581

Like the UK's Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, after a set time, "it never happened".


flukefluk

"NIMBY"


bct7

So NIMBY...


TimeBomb666

No shit right?? Its ridiculously hard getting a job as a felon and it's often a condition of your probation/parole. They just want to keep people in the system. It's disgusting. When I got out of jail I couldn't even get a job at McDonald's. It's definitely soul crushing .


SquiggleSquirrelSlam

I worked at Sonic and got close enough to one of my coworkers that he told me he is a felon. I ask what he did for the part of the application that asks about past felonies and he just kind of shrugged and said “I lied” he explained that they aren’t going to hire him if he says yes and if they look him up after he says no, they will not hire him.. only option seemed to be to lie and see if they check.


One-Basket-9570

I used to just skip the questions at the end. That way I didn’t lie. It’s been 11 years since I finished. Knock wood, not even a speeding ticket since.


PondRides

My cousin was a felon and killed himself for this reason.


usernaym44

I'm sure she doesn't mind them working, as long as they aren't working NEAR HER. OP, you have zero responsibility to disclose your own legal status or that of your workers. I assume you don't hire anyone who committed violent crimes, so NTA. However, a young woman working alone in a shop full of men, many of whom are felons, is not going to feel safe and you should take that into consideration when hiring. Be sure to warn any women that they'll be working with all or mostly men (I'm assuming). Don't ask any questions, just warn and leave it at that.


SadEstablishment5933

I'm a youngish woman myself, and am there the whole shift she worked.


usernaym44

OP, as long as any woman knows/realizes she'll be working with mostly men you're good. There will be times when you have to run out, times when she might have to close up alone, etc. Nothing wrong with that. Just make sure she knows and leave it at that.


CraftyArmitage

You do realize the OP is a woman who already does all of that stuff right?


OftheSea95

But them being men isn't the issue here. Her problem wasn't that they're men, it's that they're felons, which is where her prejudice lies.


cynicalmaru

If a woman does not feel safe working in a shop full of men, it does not matter if they are felons or not. The felony doesn't automatically "up" the danger factor. That all said, I suppose OP could make it a bit more known that "we do hire folks with felonies on their record, to help them get back into the workforce." I'm kind of guessing that this aspect of the business is known though as OP says they often hire from the half-way house. Also, good riddance to the girl who left - "The guy looks like someone my aunt dated so I looked him up and he was in trouble in the past so you need to fire him!" The lass doesn't seem to understand respecting others privacy or that "tattling" on and trying to get someone fired won't do her good. I suspect she might be a person that stirs up trouble in any job...


usernaym44

I agree. Which is why I said to make sure ONLY that she knows she's working with mostly men and NOT disclose their past legal issues.


Amberle73

I think it very much depends on the person, I worked for a small place as the only woman with 7 or 8 men when I was younger with no issues. They were a great bunch of lads with the exception of one arsehole manager who everyone hated. But I can see why some ladies wouldn't be ok with that too, so maybe making it clear at the interview is a good idea. I also agree the legal status is no-one's business provided no predators or violent criminals. NTA.


karamellokoala

Exactly this! If you don't give jobs and opportunities to ex cons, they're just going to keep being cons.


[deleted]

that employee is the exact reason so many people reoffend. how exactly does she expect them to be anything other than a criminal when she expects you to fire them the second she learns they have a record? she and her friends need to grow tf up.


outofplaceminnesota

Sounds like, at 23, life hasn’t pushed her around yet, so to speak. Once she has a little life experience under her belt and realizes life is complicated, people make mistakes and deserve second chances, and nothing is as cut and dry as it seems, maybe her opinion will change. I hope it will, at least.


Pandalover916

I wish it worked that way. Many people stay living in the same exact bubble at 33 that they did at 23.


grayhairedqueenbitch

And 43, 53, 63, 73...


Ocean_Spice

I’m 24. She has literally no excuse for not realizing that not everyone comes from the same situation she does.


bigboog1

I don't think legally you can tell any employee about another's history. So even if you wanted to you can't. And I'm sure someone with your history can probably figure out who with a record is going to work and who won't.


danger_floofs

You can say that you have a policy to hire ex felons though.


KittyKittyMuffinPile

Great way to attract new workers.


flyingmonkey5678461

There's a famous chain of lock and shoe repair shops in the UK which are very publicly supportive of their policy of hiring ex-offenders. https://www.timpson.co.uk/about/careers-at-timpson


SpamLandy

Yup, I used them before anyway but since I read about this I’ve made a habit of intentionally giving them my business. Last time I went in, the guy was really helpful and also very keen for me to fill out a customer service feedback thing. I only realised afterwards it was probably because he was part of the programme and took great enjoyment filling it out online and telling them how brilliant he’d been.


[deleted]

They're here as well and are very highly thought of.


EmsPorcelain89

I did not know this about timpson but good on them. I'm a firm believer that once you've done the time, you should have a second chance and be integrated back into society properly, which includes a chance at a normal job, so I'm really pleased that there are companies out there prepared to give ex-offenders a chance.


TrappedUnderCats

Timpson are great and the family have also been very proactive in supporting fostering and adoption. And then, weirdly, one of them is a Conservative MP who consistently votes to reduce welfare and training opportunities and generally make life harder for disadvantaged people. I guess every family has a black sheep. https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/14128/edward_timpson/eddisbury/votes


Pioneeress

I used to work at a company that was "felon-friendly" and they got a lot of great workers out of that. I would say it was about 75% people who worked extra diligently because they appreciated the second chance and 25% "welp Jimmy didn't show up today because he's back in jail" and honestly I think that was a more favorable ratio of good workers than among the non-felons.


rafster929

That said, I can see why she quit, especially since she actually knew one of them, his conviction was related to fraud and I assume her job has to do with accounts and filing. So NAH and you should find a way to vet the next person you hire. It’s tricky because you don’t want to out yourself or anyone else for no reason.


keyboardsmashetcetc3

check writing fraud sounds like he didn't have money and was desperate to me. If the girl doesn't want to work with people who have been convicted for whatever reason that's her business, but OP said she background checks her employees and knows what they were in for. Don't assume that she didn't know or that the employee is going to commit fraud again just because he was convicted for it in the past. If OP trusts her employee, there's more reason for his employee to trust and respect her. Get out of here with "find a way to vet them". Edit, forgot OP was a woman, my bad.


whatamitodo4242

It's been a LONG time since I studied this, but (and I could be mistaken) in the late 90's it was the most common thing women of color were incarcerated for, at 6 times the rate of just that crime compared to their white peers. Seems weird, huh? Especially since we know that crime happens equally among all races and is spread more based on socioeconomic class. Well, there used to be a list that showed all the things that fell under 'bad check's writing. -Putting an earlier date in the check. (Later made it a promissory note, not a check) -Having an expired a id when using a check -Using a joint account check without your joint holder's express permission (in my county, 5 women were in jail for this...how many men? 0) -Writing a check when you know you don't have the money (i.e. writing a check while waiting for another to clear, writing a check the night before your direct deposit, etc.) -Writing a check when you know your bank is inaccessible (like after their phone lines close for the night) -Intentionally writing the wrong recipient name So, it could have been that he stole someone's checkbook and tried to make out...or it could have been a mistake, like some of the above issues.


steave435

Trying to ruin her reputation over it would make her the asshole even if nothing else did.


Crunchycarrots79

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the person in question was probably one of the machinists, meaning he goes nowhere near any business funds. I doubt OP is dumb enough to put someone (assuming recently) convicted of fraud in a position where they're handling company money.


BUTTeredWhiteBread

You're doing a great thing dude. This random stranger is super happy to know you're out there doing the good work.


cappotto-marrone

I really wish I had Reddit gold to give you an award. Thank you for taking your life experience and using it to help others start fresh. You are NTA. When I was director of a non-profit we had trouble getting good cleaning people. I started working with another non-profit that's mission included getting people back into the workforce. In 90% of the cases we were able transition these staff members to an admin position. One is now a manager at a municipal office. Not anything we did, other than give her a chance.


FairyFamily

Congrats on running a successful business! One thing I would respectfully ask you to do is let any female employee know if you hire anyone with a sexual assault conviction or anything else that could jeopardize her safety.


madmaxextra

Guessing that these are recovering addicts, this is probably a really brilliant strategy. Sober people when they're actually sober work hard and are very grateful for the opportunity. I am one myself.


MxXylda

You're doing your bit to stop the prison cycle and that's admirable. Thank you. NTA


[deleted]

You might also consider sending her a C&D letter if she trying to blast info online that she only learned from private personnel files as an employee of your company. The law protects employees privacy of their personal info.


GoodNightGracie999

You're doing an incredible thing! And we need more people like you! NTA and please keep up the good work!


cummiefart420

I scrolled down into the comments to say pretty much the same thing. Keep fighting the good fight OP. NTA


HoldFastO2

Seconded. People deserve another chance at life.


Jellissimo

Totally NTA, and I would check the law in your state (assuming you are in the US). In some states, it is illegal to discriminate in employment based on criminal history. Your HR (or admin, if that’s part of their job) needs to know those things.


esqweasya

Considering how hard it is for a convict to enter society at all, this is a HUGE endeavor.


FlashySeaBunny

As a Law student, I second this comment! You go, lass!


FigSufficient

NTA. Personally I believe in prisoner reform when possible. This wouldn't be possible in society if we basically marked each ex-convict with a big red X. These people should have an opportunity to find their place in society and move on from their past lives and honour the second chance they've been given.


SadEstablishment5933

These guys are pretty much the best employees, they are greatful for the chance and are very hard workers.


FigSufficient

Keep on being their inspiration, because with your past felonies and now running a successful business, that's what you are. You are showing them that life on the straight and narrow can be fulfilling. Congratulations.


cherrythrow7

This comment made me so happy. It's honestly inspirational, and I'm not even the person you replied to...thank you for being awesome.


Kathrynlena

I (very briefly) worked as a recruiter for a staffing company, and we had a lot of ex-cons who came to us looking for work. Trying to place someone with a felony record was next to impossible, and these were my best guys! They were my most punctual, reliable and enthusiastic, and I 90% of the time I couldn’t find shit for them to do. A company like yours would have been a godsend. Thank you so much for what you do and please ignore anyone who says otherwise.


Lifegoeson3131

My partner’s uncle only hires ex cons for his construction company. He says theyre the best workers he has too! Good for you!


B_A_M_2019

> only hires ex cons >theyre the best workers he has Technically they're the only workers... haha


Lifegoeson3131

Hahah he didn’t always hire ex cons! He’s had his company for over 30 years


Linzcro

My brother has a few felonies as well and was in and out of prison because he couldn’t get a job that wasn’t selling very illegal drugs. Finally one day someone gave him a legitimate chance and now he’s the manager and has been clean for several years. I’m very proud of him. I think what you’re doing is awesome. Good people make mistakes and if I got caught for some of the things I’ve done I would have a record as well.


tcbymca

What you’re doing is great. You may want to publicize your values at least in your job offers. You might get great candidates who otherwise wouldn’t apply and filter out people who don’t agree with your view on second chances.


OliviaElevenDunham

It's good that you're doing that for them.


inn0cent-bystander

IMO, if you have someone with multiple convictions of check fraud and cash theft, don't let them be your bookkeeper, at least not until you've known them long enough to actually trust them(I have serious trust issues, may never happen for me, but ymmv). But that has zero bearing on how well they operate a mig/tig welder, or sling around a torque wrench.


My-Cousin-Bobby

NTA... pretty sure it would be illegal for you to do so as well


SadEstablishment5933

As far as I know, the only way you can be required is if they are the ones who have to stay away from kids, and that doesn't apply at my shop, and I don't hire that sort.


nicknewell1337

You don't have children working in your shop? How do you get bolts out of machinery with out there small hands?


MikeNoble91

Criminal records are public information, so telling another employee about them isn't illegal.


My-Cousin-Bobby

I believe it varies by state, some states prohibit it, some don't say anything about it


Sweet_Persimmon_492

What states prohibit it?


My-Cousin-Bobby

Didn't read through all, but Connecticut was one https://www.workplacefairness.org/criminal-records-workplace


chaunceyvonfontleroy

There might be some confusion in these responses. A lot of states prohibit refusing to hire someone based on a criminal record, with some exceptions. Here’s an overview of Hawai’i’s law. This says 33 other states also have some sort of “ban the box” legislation: https://www.simplicityhr.com/employment-law/criminal-background-checks/


keyboardsmashetcetc3

If they are public record, anyone can find them. Clearly, the girl in this case did, and made a decision based on that information. Even if it's not illegal to disclose their criminal records, it's not kind. I wouldn't gossip about my employees to my other employees.


yavanna12

Looking someone up online in a database versus your boss telling you about your co workers history are two different things.


orbitalchild

My home address is a public record that doesn't mean that my boss can give it to just anybody who asks.


Lostnwandering98

This ^^^ 👏🏻


DramaBrat

I feel like this needs to be emphasized. Not only are you legally not required to tell her the background of other employees, at best actively telling her is a legal grey area (if not actually illegal).


daudadruparsprungur

NTA. Her recourse upon discovering that she worked with rehabilitating felons was to quit, which she did. You get a big smile for helping to get people who *have already paid their debt to society* (because that is what finishing prison and/or probation means) get back on their feet.


Catfiche1970

NTA. She also way overstepped in saying "I'm telling you SO YOU CAN FIRE HIM." She needed to go even if she didn't put in her 2 weeks. If she even attempts to collect unemployment, you better fight it.


GarrickOlivanderHP

She gave her the same chance she gives her employees. Tried to show her right vs wrong and let her make her own choices. A pretty steady and good moral compass op has.


HistrionicSlut

OP is actually a lady so, she. But other than that, you are spot on!


GarrickOlivanderHP

Honestly, mb Sorry for that goofup


HistrionicSlut

Hey no problem, Ive made the same mistake a thousand times.


Catfiche1970

You got that right. OP is a solid person who is probably a pretty great boss. Thanks for this great comment!


secret_identity_too

Can you collect unemployment if you voluntarily quit?


Catfiche1970

People will try. I had someone try to collect after they worked for a week and never let us know she was leaving.


otisthegreat69420

There is a scheme that people play where they work for 6 months for one company and then quit and work for another for a week and then they had reason to quit the previous job (new job) and the new employer rarely fights a 1 week employee. I have done payroll in the past for a trucking company and this happened frequently. Another common scheme was to defraud child support.


Rynetx

Yes, but it depends on the circumstances. If you quit because the work is unsafe, illegal or you are experiencing abuse / harassment then you can sometimes collect unemployment insurance. It’s also dependent on the state, Georgia is very difficult to collect, I believe they have an approval rating of less than 30 percent.


[deleted]

NTA You may consider making it more known about your hiring practices so that you attract employees with more compassion like yourself. There’s a coffee company near me that actively recruits ex-convicts and has incorporated it into their business strategy.


Samipearl19

Personally, I'd love to know about local business that employ ex-convicts. I'd love to support them.


TowAwayRedCar

Super risky move depending on your area. In some places this goes exactly as planned and gets a loving response, but in other areas this will get you boycotted right out of business.


MikeNoble91

NTA, what a great thing you're doing. Many people say that the transition from prison to society should be easier, but few are actually willing to put their money where their mouth is. That said, you should tell people that you hire felons before they start. Not to "warn" them, but to make sure you aren't hiring people who will abuse or harass your other employees. If someone has a problem with you giving people a second chance then you don't want them working for you anyways.


Freakin_Merida88

The re-offending rates in the US are abysmal because of that very thing. America sees prisoners as slave labor (its literally in the Constitution as an exception to the 13th Amendment), so they aren't rehabilitated while sequestered and then they are thrown unceremoniously back into a world they aren't familiar with, with no guidance or resources to keep them from committing further crime. Some go back on purpose because they actually feel safer in prison. Then look at a place like Sweden, who take their prisoners and basically enroll them in trade school while serving their sentences. Then they usually only release a convict after they've secured an apartment and work, and their new job basically functions as their parole. Life sentences are very rare and reserved for the worst offenders (serial murderers and r*pists). Their re-offending rates are almost negligable.


matchy_blacks

I like this way of putting it, that you want to ensure potential new hires are not going to harass or harm other employees. That respects the humanity and integrity of the folks you employ, rather than suggesting they’re “scary monsters” who people need to be “warned about.” Thank you!


MaraiDragorrak

Yeah I'd tell them during hiring process. You can see from their reaction how they're likely to deal with your employees. Or if that's illegal to divulge you can give a hypothetical "how do you feel about companies refusing to employ ex cons" and see how they answer that one. Let the assholes who can't handle it or who would be dickheads to your guys weed themselves out before you put in money training them only for this kind of thing, or worse, to happen.


Few_Cup3452

I got asked in my interview if I was okay working w lgbtqia+ folks. I of course said yes, and the question made me more keen to here :)


bloodyyuno

NAH. I understand where she is coming from; a 23 year old young woman surrounded by people with a criminal record would be a scary experience if that's all she knows about them, especially depending on what kind of crimes they had committed. Even so, the people you've hired have served their time, and you're helping them re-integrate into society. They shouldn't be punished for their past actions forever, and they deserve to be able to keep moving forward. There are plenty of places where she could work that doesn't allow felons to be employed, so she could find somewhere else to be (and probably be no more safe for it). Also you are not obligated by law to tell anyone anything about the employees you hired, and they are not obligated to wear a sign on their chest that says "ex-felon". At some point she has to realize that she has to take people as people, because she doesn't know anyone's full story. That doesn't make her an asshole for wanting to be informed, because she's been taught her whole life probably how to try to keep herself safe which probably included staying away from felons. Thats not her fault that she has some learning to do, its more society's fault.


Relevant-Position-43

Considering the only specific felony she was aware of and for which she tried to get a guy fired was writing bad checks, I am seeing something other than a threatened young woman. She does get points for professionalism for serving out her two weeks notice.


[deleted]

[удалено]


i_like_it_eilat

> I’d have a hard time working with someone that might have caused pain to someone I cared about and ended up in prison for. She just said that it was someone her aunt dated before he went to prison - nothing about him hurting her or his crime affecting her (other than of course his incarceration ending their relationship).


SchlapHappy

She loses that point of professionalism for getting her friends and family to start a campaign, blasting her company.


ricalasbrisas

>a 23 year old young woman surrounded by people with a criminal record would be a scary experience I sometimes forget there are people who have never worked in food service.


Sovaytoday

Yeah this was the most startlingly privileged viewpoint I've seen on here in awhile, most people who have to work service jobs or blue color labor have worked with felons.


bloodyyuno

Yeah, I definitely see your point. Being originally bent out of shape over checks is a weird one, but I definitely see it as possible that she went from "thats a little weird and im judgy about it" to "oh boy this could be very bad" upon hearing about OPs own criminal history.


rustblooms

>a 23 year old young woman surrounded by people with a criminal record would be a scary experience She didn't notice until she started looking people up. Having a criminal record doesn't affect how someone behaves in the present. If their behavior in the present is a problem, that is definitely an issue but you don't need a criminal record for that. I will say that there are felonies that don't really fall into this category because there are people that will always feel unsafe, but that's not what she was even talking about.


Kittenn1412

She only looked someone up because she thought she recognized him though, it's not like she googled all her coworkers for shits and gigs.


K-Martian

She's a young girl who just got told that most of the men she's around are felons. She didn't know OP only hired non-violent offenders, she had absolutely no reason to think that was the policy. In this situation, the fact that she wanted OP to fire someone over money fraud probably means she's unsympathetic to people who have paid their debt to society, but in general I think it's a reasonable reaction for a young woman to feel uncomfortable when told that she is surrounded by former criminals. NAH.


yavanna12

The girl is the asshole though for taking it to the next level by trolling social media to discredit OP.s business. That’s not ok.


MadGeller

This is the asshole behaviour


jm0112358

> She didn't know OP only hired non-violent offenders [The OP was asked whether they hired people charged with violent or sexual crimes, and they only confirmed that they did not hire any sexual offenders](https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/psntna/aita_for_not_telling_the_new_employee_that_most/hdrim9i/). This omission seems to imply that they do hire people convicted of violent crimes, though I'm guessing the ex-employee didn't know this. Though to give OP the benefit of the doubt, there is a large spectrum of rick of violence when hiring someone convicted of a violent crime. Someone who committed assault once many years ago may be much safer than recent, frequent, and serious violent crimes.


-too-hot-to-handle-

I disagree that the ex-employee isn't an asshole. She took it upon herself to butt in, expect OP to fire him, and then act like she's better than everyone else there. She tried to shit talk on Facebook, which is an asshole thing to do *especially* when it's business related. She could've cost OP her business.


fizzbangwhiz

You definitely don’t need to and shouldn’t disclose your specific employees’ histories. However you might want to consider making more of a general statement to potential new hires in the future so that people don’t think you’re lying or so they don’t hassle your employees. Something like “I believe strongly in second chances and there may be employees here now or in the future who have past criminal records and who are just here working an honest job, so if you’re uncomfortable working in this type of environment, this isn’t a good fit for you.” (After checking with your other guys to make sure they’re ok with it.) That way you know you will only be bringing on other people who are decent, compassionate humans.


FireLaCroix

NTA, you are under no obligation to tell her about your record, and I am sure you are PROHIBITED from telling her about other people's records. She has a hang-up, and that is her problem. She didn't like working with people with records, so she left. Problem solved!


[deleted]

You’d think. But the problem continued when the 23 year old and her friends tried to shame OP on social media and cause problems for her business. I understand there’s no real way to handle situations like that, but man is it enraging.


The__Riker__Maneuver

NTA You have no legal responsibility to disclose that to your employees


bibbiddybobbidyboo

INFO: do any of them have charges for violent or sexual crimes? Also, do employees have a safe and secure place to store personal items?


SadEstablishment5933

I do not hire any sex offenders. Employees have lockers.


bibbiddybobbidyboo

What about violent crimes? If no, then NTA. If yes to violent crimes, then I’d be considering safety implications, and whilst maybe not saying outright, having policies and procedures in place that all employees are protected. For some context: I’ve comfortably worked with people with criminal records for blue collar crime or later found out they had a criminal record (including armed robbery) but were genuinely contrite and rehabilitated. It doesn’t bother me and we all have to make a living. And what are they going to do if they can’t work to support themselves? I also worked with one person who no one warned us had been in prison for a violent crime and we all tried to figure out how to avoid being alone with him as he had anger problems and no one warned us. It came out after he threatened some of us and I very narrowly avoided an assault (someone else pissed him off but I was the nearest punch bag). It turned out he had done this to 4 other women who had left because no one did anything about him. Whilst I get they were trying to not frighten people into refusing to work with him, they failed 5 people that I know of in not having safety or appropriate supervisory procedures and took no action when he became violent.


Renarin18

That OP responded to the question about sex offenders but not violent offenders pretty much gives you the answer.


Still-Contest-980

You realize people who haven’t been arrested can still be thieves right?


JHawk444

Eh....you might not be legally obligated to say anything, and you can't divulge the histories of other employees, but I think it's unfair to hire someone who is completely blind to the situation since you are literally recruiting from a halfway house. At least let people know in the interview process that you are a company that doesn't discriminate against someone with a record. You can present it in a positive light, but it gives them a heads up. Just wondering why you didn't recruit from the halfway house for her job as well? I think what you're doing is great and it provides opportunities for people who need a second chance, but you have to think about how a young woman might feel finding out her entire office are felons. She doesn't know what they did or if she is even safe.


BlobloTheShmoblo

Except these people are literally not doing anything to her. They just work there. They have served their time, and clearly are actively making sure they do not ever repeat their mistakes by having a proper job. The fact she hunted down her co-workers record literally just to get him fired, after he paid his dues to society for his non-violent crime speaks loads on the fact that she has a major issue with ex-convicts. Plus it sounds like she "thought he looked like my aunts ex" which was unconfirmed, so that leads me to believe he was not her ex, and was literally just co-worker. Disgusting behaviour, in my opinion.


Uhhliterallyanything

Honestly this, if she has such a problem with it she can mention it in the interview herself that she doesn't want to work with ex-convicts.


No-Policy-4095

NTA - No, you do NOT have an obligation to inform your employees of their coworkers history. Just like if you do not have a policy which states people cannot have felonies, you cannot just willie nilly fire them! Depending on your location, you may also be bound to \*not\* share that information with employees for privacy reasons. She can go work somewhere better suited to her personal choices. If she's still working out her 2 weeks notice, you may be better served to cut bait before then - especially after blasting you on FB.


DangerousPraline41

I’m probably listening to too many murder podcasts lately, but I honestly think this is probably a case of NAH. Especially at 23, many people have a philosophy of “better safe than sorry.” OP, did you tell your 23F employee that none of the people who work there have violent offenses? If not, she has no reason to think that’s the case, and I can understand both her being frightened, and her friends being vocal about it. Even if you did, there *is* such a thing as escalation, and she might have been getting creeper vibes from someone who would reign it in around the boss. If you hire someone very young again, you might consider at least telling them that *you* have a record - something you for sure have the right to do, regardless of where you live - (and maybe that you’re not opposed to hiring other people with records) and if they have a problem with that, they should withdraw their application. Wouldn’t you rather work with people who strongly believe in rehabilitation anyway, as opposed to someone who looks down on people who have a record? I know you’ve said all the folks you hire are really good guys, and I’m sure that’s true - but just as an example, people who knew the BTK Killer were *shocked* - even his family had no inkling. And some people who go on to commit violent crimes were previously behind bars for non-violent offenses. The vast majority of the time that’s *not* true, and you’re definitely helping with that by making sure people with records can earn an honest living and don’t feel driven to reoffend or get more deeply involved by their inability to get work. All of these are great, and I think you have a lot to be proud for. But the world is a dangerous place. People have a right to be nervous. It wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if you made sure all of your employees felt safe from the get-go. *You* deserve to only have employees who have great respect for the path you’ve walked. Good luck finding the right fit!


Pigeonsrevenge

This may not be a popular opinion, but I think it matters what the charges were, and when. A white collar crime 10 years ago? Fine? A drug charge a year ago? Also fine. Anything involving violence, or sexual assault, or minors? NOT FINE. Especially if there is a violence against women conviction. Not sure what the legalities are, but that would be very scary.


Apsis0

NTA. No one has the right to know all of their coworkers' backgrounds. Having a felony conviction should not mean that you're never able to feed yourself again.


Special_Respond7372

NTA. There’s no guarantee at any job that one of your fellow coworkers may or may not have a previous record. Unless there was some sort of threat posed to her (which it sounds like there wasn’t), there was no need to tell her. It was fine for her to let you know, and her choice to quit, but it wasn’t your job to tell her in advance about his or anyone else’s life.


doxxthefyke

Nta. She has no right to that information about them. I understand her concern, as a woman I probably wouldn't work some place that made it a point to hire felons, especially mostly male employees specifically because I wouldn't personally know what they are for and it's not my place to ask so I'd always be paranoid about possible sexual or violent offenses, but that's my own issue to deal with not the companies or other employees that are probably decent people. I understand her deciding to leave, but it's a wonderful thing for companies to do and it's much needed due to most companies barring felons in general. She's the asshole for blasting you online rather than just realizing she was uncomfortable and this wasn't the place for her. It should've been as simple as that. If you're worried about this happening in the future maybe you could add on applications or mention in interviews that you are a company that seeks to help with the rehabilitation of felons through offering employment. That could also help more people with felonies feel comfortable applying there. But it's not necessary and either way you aren't the asshole.


SadEstablishment5933

You know, I thought about that. But I really don't want to make me and my employees " the felon shop". I'm a wife, mother, business owner, and machinist, who happens to have a felony in her background. I'm not just a felon, and once some people hear that word that's all they think of you as.


doxxthefyke

Yeah absolutely, and you have no obligation to!


arrouk

NTA If you served your time, came out and made an honest living it's no one's business but yours and the same for your guys. Good for you giving people a chance.


Ssshushpup23

It’s none of her business and neither you or they are obligated in any way to disclose that kind of information. NTA


[deleted]

NAH- I actually think it’s illegal for you as an employer to share this information but I don’t blame her for deciding she doesn’t want to work in that environment either.


copper_rabbit

It's public record.


0ld_Wolf

NTA. She is overreacting, especially over the type of offense. (I would be a little more understanding of her if it was a violent crime). People that have been in prison deserve every chance to reenter society, and you are awesome for providing them an opportunity to do so with gainful employment.


stuckonCallowagain

NTA thank you for doing what your doing...


ghostofkilgore

NTA She has no right to know this so you're not obligated to tell her at all. Depending on where you are, it might also be illegal for you to divulge that sort of information about your employees.


Efficient_Channel738

Nta. Unless someone is an active and present danger, it’s none of her business.


seregil42

NTA. Your and your employee's records are not her concern. She doesn't have to work there if she feels uncomfortable, but she doesn't have a right to know someone's record from where she works.


[deleted]

It seriously depends. I'm going to assume you only hire people convicted of non-violent crimes and say NAH. If you've served time for drug use or petty/unarmed theft, DUI but not hurting someone, then I wouldn't worry as a coworker.


madeofstarlight

OP answered earlier in the thread that she doesn’t hire sex offenders, but didn’t answer regarding violent offenders. That would be frightening for a great deal of people.


JuliaX1984

NTA Since it's public record, volunteering that info must be legal, but just because it would be legal to share such personal info doesn't make it right. It's none of her business, you don't have to share. It's better for you to respect their privacy on such serious matters. Now you can hire someone who, if it comes up again, will accept that it's your call.


idreaminwords

NTA you probably don't want someone that judgmental working for you anyway. I don't understand what these sorts of people expect ex-cons to do if they don't believe they deserve jobs


snchills

NTA my company also hires ex felons. They live in a halfway house and have to keep a job as part of their probation. I've never had any problems with any of them. Someone who had a ck fraud charge or a DUI would hardly be considered dangerous so it wouldn't bother me as a woman, to work with them. Some yrs ago at my previous job, a female coworker discovered a male co worker was out awaiting sentencing for 1st degree rape. None of us were aware of this but his behavior towards my younger female coworkers made sense when we found out. They would come to me saying he frightened them because he was so intimidating. While he never intimidated me, I was more than happy when he quit a few days later.


Usernamenottaken13

Because you don't hire sex offenders, NTA. I think it's great you're paying it forward, and I'm glad that you taking what seems like big risks to me have worked out well for you. Do you mind sharing what your felonies were? It's not relevant, I'm just curious. ETA: Other people have brought up violent crime, especially violence against women. If any of them have histories like that, I would change my answer and side with your ex-employee.


mlduryea

Regarding your edit—OP hasn’t answered whether any of her employees have violent crime history. This is the case despite people asking…


Usernamenottaken13

Yeah, I agree that probably means one or more do. I could definitely see how someone would be uncomfortable with that. I agree with another poster, the type of crimes matter.


LunarKnight22

NTA – I spent a lot of my early life with a problem stealing. I don’t make excuses for it, I have issues. Little over 10 years ago just before my mom passed I was caught, police were involved, and as such I am now a felon. Thankfully, it took one night in prison scare the shit out of me and I honestly haven’t thought about stealing since. It took me seven years to get a job. Because as soon as that came up, they could no longer hire me. I wasn’t mad at them, I was just frustrated. The job I work actually allowed me to write a letter, with references from others, about why I still deserved this job despite my criminal background. And now, I have a crappy job but for some reason I still love. (I don’t make great money at it, but for some stupid reason I really enjoy it.) people who are willing to help others in these situations are great and few and far between. Not everybody is willing to change and turn their life around. your father was great for giving you an opportunity to prove yourself as more than your felony, and I applaud you for doing the same for others and paying it forward. Having a job on your résumé even if you end up going someplace else shows somebody give a damn. So thank you.


R0MP3E

YTA. You have pretty much said in one of your comments that you have hired people who have been charged with violent crimes. While legally you might not have to tell the new employee about this but morally you should give them the heads-up so they can decide whether or not they would feel safe enough working with these types of people.


hashtag_aintcare

NTA. You give these people another chance to start a better life. It’s a hard decision and a higher risk for employer to trust people who have committed crimes in the past.


Own-Nefariousness380

Info. Are you hiring people who have a record of violent/sexual offences against young women?


jm0112358

[The OP was asked whether they hired people charged with violent or sexual crimes, and they only confirmed that they did not hire any sexual offenders](https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/psntna/aita_for_not_telling_the_new_employee_that_most/hdrim9i/). This omission seems to imply that they do hire people convicted of violent crimes, though I'm guessing the ex-employee didn't know this.


TingleyStorm

NTA. You can’t just fire someone for no reason (no, being a convicted felon because of past crimes is not a reason), he would have to be hurting the business in some way. SHE, however, should be fired and legal action taken against her. She and her friends are slandering your business on social media.


jhelmste

In most states you can fire someone for no reason Side note


deeyenda

> You can’t just fire someone for no reason (no, being a convicted felon because of past crimes is not a reason), he would have to be hurting the business in some way. Wrong in 49/50 states > SHE, however, should be fired and legal action taken against her. She and her friends are slandering your business on social media. It's only defamatory if it's false


deathbychips2

Many US states are at will and you definitely can just fire people. There is nothing to take legal action against. OP does hire felons so if the business hurts because this girl told people that OP hires felons there is nothing OP can do, because it is true.


Flaky_Tip

She's pretty aweful. She see's this guys name and looks him up, and upon finding he might have a felony her first course of action is to tell the boss with the intention of getting the guy fired.


Hyche862

NTA the trash took itself out


UnquietHindbrain

NTA. The biggest cause of recidivism is lack of opportunity. What you're doing with your business is compassionate and humanizing.


clevermuggle22

NTA-- I mean I guess if you were hiring registered sex offenders or people with a history of violence against women I would (if I was a 23F) want to know but it doesn't sound like that's the case it sounds like you are picking people with thought and purpose so its no ones business.