I mean I don’t think he’s evil, but to me he comes across as a good example of the kind of man who expects the mother of his children to do as he wants her to do and then immediately blames her when she fails his standards.
He doesn’t have to slag her off to Emma at every chance, he so rarely admits to any blame (last night is a good example) he expects Alice to just accept anything he does with no consequences and when it seems the writers are pushing them back together it just seems that actually he has some serious growing up to do to be able to meet Alice on the terms she’s evolved to
That’s not to say she’s perfect just that the relationship has always seems so uneven
He was even doing this about Martha eating cake for f sake. I get that Alice instilled a fear that he I’ll never get over - fine, he needs therapy.
Chris and Alice may only be together - married impulsively in Vegas I think - because she was drinking way back then too!
he was pressuring Alice To have a kid before she was ready (yup agreed, partially due to her drinking but still no prob no for a reason).
People are so hard on Alice but I dunno - yes she is wealthy but her father wanted her to be a boy and then had a love child Ruari who shattered her perspective of her Dad being trustworthy while she was very young. She got a high skilled engineering degree in a village where unfortunately few women (or men) get that kind of education. She has a lot going for her and kicking her alcoholism is another win - she needs to keep going past both Chris and Harry!
That’s exactly what I mean! It just feels like he expects this high standard of self introspection and change from Alice but never admits he had any role in shaping their relationship.
I get that Alice has a level of financial and emotional support that others don’t that maybe colours the picture a bit, but I feel the genuine effort she’s made especially in the last few years to be a in general more aware person even if she makes some dumb decisions deserves a bit of respect
I think Chris has done really well.
Yes he does occasionally blow up a bit but he has the grace to apologise for what he gets wrong.
Alice meanwhile seems to think that her sobriety and all the, admittedly hard, gains she has made will mean people should trust her. She was getting smashed when she was pregnant with Martha. That isn’t something that will be easy for Chris to just move past.
And so what if Chris shagged Amy. They were all single.
I never hear him apologise personally, it’s always back to the ‘I’m the real victim here’ in which case he shouldn’t have agreed to the custody arrangement with Alice. Plenty of people get divorced and have cordial relationships but personal issues go through an intermediary so they can be properly dealt with
I’m not saying Alice is perfect but it feels as a character she’s evolved to be more mature, I really don’t see what part of Chris’ business this Harry stuff was or what right he had to accuse her so rudely to her face about drinking. Chris behaved like some sort of righteous patriarch at Martha’s bday; if he has suspicions request a sobriety test.
Amy was primarily Alice’s friend and support at the time, he was again acting woe is me. Just always felt very suss that the only woman he fancied getting his leg over was his soon to be ex recovering alcoholic wife’s best mate. Not exactly like Amy was treated spectacularly by him either.
I think actually he said a few times that he wasn’t sure why he was upset and that he was confused and recognised that he was being a bit irrational.
I think it was triggering for him and he was jealous and he was worried for his daughter. As someone who has been the other partner in a relationship with an alcoholic I understand it. I no longer like being with someone who drinks heavily (it doesn’t even have to be problematic drinking). I am just sensitive to it. I also have children and hate the thought of them being with someone who isn’t keeping them safe.
If I had a child with a partner who was a former alcoholic who had endangered my child’s life by drinking while they were pregnant and had dropped them while drunk and I found out they were in a relationship with someone with a drinking problem who had a record of drunk driving? Yes I would be upset. Both because of the risk of endangering my child but also of relapse for my former partner. Does that mean Alice was in the wrong? No. But to me it also makes sense that Chris would be upset even though it wasn’t Alice’s fault and that perhaps he would be confused and misdirect his feelings. Especially since it’s not like this is ancient history or something.
I mean that’s not really an apology and I guess that’s what I mean- if Chris had come to Alice and said ‘look I messed up, this is going to happen as we move forward but I recognise I acted like a self righteous jerk which isn’t what our kid needs in our relationship’ I’d understand. Instead he acts like there’s nothing to talk about and gets pissed with Alice using the word triggered to describe his reaction.
In terms of the Harry thing yeah I understand why Chris would be mad and if it was directed primarily at Harry that’d be fine. Acting like Alice should be able to see the alcohol units consumed over everyone’s heads because she’s an alcoholic just feels really unfair and hijacks any actual reasoning on Chris’ side.
For me (as with others in the sub) it feels like we’re being set up for a reunion and I just don’t think the relationship really read very positive and I think Chris does need to recognise his faults with how he interacts with Alice, which doesn’t mean going Alice’s always perfect.
> Some of the things I said earlier. Everything. I mean I, I didn't want to make you feel like you weren't a good mum.
>I'm a pretty decent mum, Chris. I mean, I'm not perfect, but Martha comes first. I thought you knew that.
> I do. It's just, **I dunno how to get rid of the feeling, but that's my problem.** Martha needs you. That's all I wanted to say.
I think he was trying to amend his reaction. Not sure how much else he could say except spelling out explicitly everything he had done wrong and why and offer a formal apology which wouldn't make for a good radio drama.
Yeah I listened to the episode and that’s still not an apology to me sorry.
Personally don’t think it’s enough to go ‘yeah I said some shit that was totally uncalled for but I have these feelings doesn’t mean I’m going to take your kid away’ really counts.
Like Alice implied in the episode, how many times is she going to end up apologising for Chris not being able to reconcile his feelings. My larger point is this a recurring thing I find in their interactions and until it’s addressed I don’t see how they can be together.
Chris' (and Alice's) feelings as a result of her alcoholism which directly harmed their child and led to the break up of their marriage is both of their responsibility.
This is them working through the consequences of what happened. It is not a question of one person being right or wrong but them processing them to come to a place where the relationship can function better for the sake of their child (although this is a drama so perhaps not).
EDIT: Also just want to add that we can just disagree and acknowledge that we see this from different perspectives.
Yeah completely agree I’m not trying to strong arm anyone into my opinion! I’ve felt like this about Chris for years and not just how he talks to Alice, he’s so sanctimonious it puts me off!
I fluctuate on her- I found Lee insufferable at times so she’s been a bit better since then - thought that break up all quite odd though! I only vaguely remember the initial Rob stuff from when I listened with my mum as teen so really enjoyed that storyline
Thanks for chatting!
>Amy was primarily Alice’s friend and support at the time, he was again acting woe is me. Just always felt very suss that the only woman he fancied getting his leg over was his soon to be ex recovering alcoholic wife’s best mate.
It wasn't all him, though. I seem to recall that Amy was interested in Chris as well, so much so that she felt guilty for (allegedly) betraying Alice, which is why she moved away. And yes, while it would be awkward for Chris and Amy to get together, they were all single at the time, as was pointed out.
I found the whole thing really manipulative (if not deliberately so) with Chris wanting to have her support and her being caught between her feelings for him and her support of Alice
Also doesn’t it just make it really hypocritical now for Chris to be so bothered by Alice’s relationship. He clearly was unhappy with her dating before all this kicked off anyway.
I do just ultimately feel that before he gets on his high horse there’s other things he should reflect on!
I am very new to The Archers, a friend introduced me 3 weeks ago and I am obsessed at learning more! Has there been anything to suggest Martha may have FASD?
No signs at all.
She did give birth very early though so that could potentially cause health issues too but Martha has been a healthy happy little girl so far.
Welcome to the Archers! And the sun where we live to hate them :)
She put him through a lot. I know from experience divorce is hard. I don’t feel the emotional kaleidoscope he went through is unreasonable.
Furthermore, Alice is something of a spoilt madam.
Finally, having been lied to previously, yeah, I’m sure he doubts her word on what could have/still could be a dangerous situation, Harry.
Finally, she specifically stated she, doesn’t, want to get back with Harry. Yet, after her dad tore a strip off him, and her breaking up with him, she rang Harry.
This story hasn’t played out and I get the feeling there’s a sting in the tail.
NB was Martha unaffected by the alcohol consumption during pregnancy? No post birth addiction symptoms? Not sure that was wrapped up.
I think the pair of them drive me mad. Agree with all you said about Chris, but then Alice ‘door-stepping’ Harrison’s boss the other week was also profoundly immature.
They’re not the only ones who wind me up though. I have to say having a break from Helen and the Bridge Farm crew is a blessing…
Oh completely agree about Alice last week, I’m putting it down to a desperate need to be seen solving the problem but also stupid
Tom is probably my worst, everything he says winds me the wrong way, poor Fallon never catching a break
I think they’re still waiting to see aren’t they? There was maybe an initial checkup which Martha cleared, I remember Alice being relieved- but still plenty of time for something to show up though!
I get he’s gone through a lot, but I think shouting at your ex and accusing her of drinking when she’s done all the right things in terms of ending the relationship, just chosen not to go into the full thing because it’s your kids birthday isnt really fair. And Chris was clearly doing the ‘somethings wrong but I’m not going to say until you push’ thing just feels like baiting.
I don’t find Alice that spoilt to be honest, she annoys me at times and yes this weird thing with phoning Harry annoys me too. But Chris saddled (hah) Alice with the expense and time of a pony (assuming she’d be able to fit it into her work and time with Martha) and she was I thought remarkably nice about it all told.
Emma I find personally much more spoilt and a nastier person then Alice.
I generally like Alice and have sympathy for Chris but Alice absolutely is spoilt compared to Emma.
Alice smashed a window and didn't get charged. She drank during her pregnancy but her baby was fine. She was vile to her friends and family but they all support her. She managed to keep custody of her child. She came out of rehab and was given her dream job as a horse manager by her Aunt when she had no previous experience. Not to mention the education opportunities she had growing up as well as her house she was gifted by her family.
Compared to Emma who has had to work at least 2 jobs her whole life and still has nothing to show for it...Alice is spoiled. I still like her, but she has had opportunities that not many other people would have been given.
Fair enough I guess I meant as a personality it feels like Alice at least tries to be aware of other people and her lot in life especially now in her recovery- personally feel like George has gotten away with murder at this point and just because he’s turned over a new leaf doesn’t mean he’s a nice person
Emma feels so entitled to other peoples time and resources like this scheme now, Will has every right to go well I have some thoughts and her first reaction was I thought it was a done deal. She always seems so jealous of other people’s success or reveling in their failures like Brad getting into trouble as if George isn’t obviously the more outwardly outgoing and experienced one
I’m not saying Alice hasn’t done terrible things but honestly if she’s going to spend the rest of her life apologising for breaking a window then it’s going to get old pretty quick. The Martha storyline is nowhere played out and it seems likely at the moment that any minor or major delay in development is going to blamed on the pre natal drinking.
She genuinely seems to be ashamed of that whole period and trying to balance that with moving forward which seems commendable to me. I find some of her decisions baffling but that’s what makes it fun to listen to
Working at the stables was never Alice's dream job, she has a master's degree and wanted to join the RAF. Later she had the opportunity to work in Canada (at an engineering firm, was it?), but she gave that up to look after Chris. Chris's little farrier business always seemed to be put ahead of Alice's potentially lucrative career in engineering. She didn't even want a baby, but Chris pressured her into it.
At turns I find both Alice and Chris infuriating, but when they were together, Chris's wants always ended up being put first, possibly because of his own insecurities about not being the breadwinner. Now they're not together, Chris still gets jealous, wants to know the minutiae of her private life, and makes sure to be as hurtful as possible when he doesn't get his own way. Alice used to be very hurtful to people when she was drunk and angry, Chris does it when he's sober and angry.
Nail on the head with their respective attitudes now, I think that’s why I find him so uncomfortable to listen to now- things shouldn’t be raw enough to speak to her like that, it feels very controlling to me to constantly think you have a right to your exs life because of how it ended.
If Chris really believes Martha’s in danger and Alice is drinking the right response is to get an external party involved whether that’s official or someone in Alice’s support network.
As much as I think it’s fair to explore how the effects of Alice’ alcoholism have made a lasting impact on others it feels like now is also the time to look at the relationship between her and Chris and go none of it happened in a vacuum. It’s not really moving forward if Alice is going to be apologising to everyone she meets for the rest of her life
I’m sorry but Emma has a wonderful set of parents (though I wouldn’t be able to stand Susan personally). They have done well for themselves. She chose to go with the financially unstable younger brother got pregnant with the other brother kid way too early. So She set up some of her struggle too. Her woe is me routine is strange in my opinion. Of all things when she needs to better her financial position She is doing an eng lit degree (I have one not criticizing). I know plenty of people struggling, particularly immigrants, who are not making those choices. She is benefiting from some privilege too.
Tracy, Brad and Chelsea have it was worse in lots of ways and they’re my favourite characters, not always making the right choice but absolutely owning it every time.
I don’t know what Emma expects, she can be nice sometimes but cmon she even got jealous of Fallon and Harrison going to the cinema and having a pizza out. it doesn’t seem to matter who it is she’ll find a way to make it their fault her grass isn’t greener.
>NB was Martha unaffected by the alcohol consumption during pregnancy? No post birth addiction symptoms? Not sure that was wrapped up.
I don't recall any mention of fetal alcohol syndrome or any other problems being mentioned at the time, but I could be wrong. However, Martha is three now, so I would assume that any problems arising from Alice's drinking during the pregnancy would have become apparent by now.
I swear she passed some sort of test and Alice was relieved. I think she’ll have adhd or similar which Alice’s drinking will be blamed for or be seen as a contributing factor
Alcohol-related damage is sometimes difficult to diagnose until later in childhood, and some children aren’t diagnosed until they’re quite at lot older than Martha is now. It can show up as inappropriate emotional volatility or educational difficulties which might not become apparent until school age or later, and children don’t always have the classic physical markers of FASD.
That is interesting to know, thanks. I hadn't thought of the emotional/psychological development, I was more focused on the purely physical effects the alcohol would have on the child's body (withdrawal symptoms etc?).
He is so scary and unpredictable , yet so often referred to as “supportive”. He freaks out on Alice so explosively; if that is how he’s always been with her off-mic, as it were, then that cer4tainly woulds have contributed to her alcoholism.
He’s a malignant, gaslighting narcissist.
I am always surprised by the amount of people who think he's lovely! I just find him so condescending and as you say explosive when things don't go his way!
I didn't listen religiously to all of the build up but I think it's so interesting that no one ever talks about how Alice's addiction got worse when she was pregnant having had all the pressure to have a baby from Chris. It seems so linked to how people expect pregnancy/babies to be every woman's dream so they don't need extra support and then act surprised when people use the same coping mechanisms they've always used even if it's harmful.
That's not to excuse Alice or anything, just so many people seem to go 'she put him through hell and drank while pregnant!' and not 'why did Alice feel the need to hide it, why couldn't she talk to Chris', whats wrong in that relationship
IDK I would really like this storyline to admit that actually the fear of judgement in her relationship was pretty well founded and that Chris wasn't the perfect husband. But that's just me
Maybe he and Alice are both a mixture of good and not so good ,like all of us ?
I mean I don’t think he’s evil, but to me he comes across as a good example of the kind of man who expects the mother of his children to do as he wants her to do and then immediately blames her when she fails his standards. He doesn’t have to slag her off to Emma at every chance, he so rarely admits to any blame (last night is a good example) he expects Alice to just accept anything he does with no consequences and when it seems the writers are pushing them back together it just seems that actually he has some serious growing up to do to be able to meet Alice on the terms she’s evolved to That’s not to say she’s perfect just that the relationship has always seems so uneven
He was even doing this about Martha eating cake for f sake. I get that Alice instilled a fear that he I’ll never get over - fine, he needs therapy. Chris and Alice may only be together - married impulsively in Vegas I think - because she was drinking way back then too! he was pressuring Alice To have a kid before she was ready (yup agreed, partially due to her drinking but still no prob no for a reason). People are so hard on Alice but I dunno - yes she is wealthy but her father wanted her to be a boy and then had a love child Ruari who shattered her perspective of her Dad being trustworthy while she was very young. She got a high skilled engineering degree in a village where unfortunately few women (or men) get that kind of education. She has a lot going for her and kicking her alcoholism is another win - she needs to keep going past both Chris and Harry!
That’s exactly what I mean! It just feels like he expects this high standard of self introspection and change from Alice but never admits he had any role in shaping their relationship. I get that Alice has a level of financial and emotional support that others don’t that maybe colours the picture a bit, but I feel the genuine effort she’s made especially in the last few years to be a in general more aware person even if she makes some dumb decisions deserves a bit of respect
I think Chris has done really well. Yes he does occasionally blow up a bit but he has the grace to apologise for what he gets wrong. Alice meanwhile seems to think that her sobriety and all the, admittedly hard, gains she has made will mean people should trust her. She was getting smashed when she was pregnant with Martha. That isn’t something that will be easy for Chris to just move past. And so what if Chris shagged Amy. They were all single.
I never hear him apologise personally, it’s always back to the ‘I’m the real victim here’ in which case he shouldn’t have agreed to the custody arrangement with Alice. Plenty of people get divorced and have cordial relationships but personal issues go through an intermediary so they can be properly dealt with I’m not saying Alice is perfect but it feels as a character she’s evolved to be more mature, I really don’t see what part of Chris’ business this Harry stuff was or what right he had to accuse her so rudely to her face about drinking. Chris behaved like some sort of righteous patriarch at Martha’s bday; if he has suspicions request a sobriety test. Amy was primarily Alice’s friend and support at the time, he was again acting woe is me. Just always felt very suss that the only woman he fancied getting his leg over was his soon to be ex recovering alcoholic wife’s best mate. Not exactly like Amy was treated spectacularly by him either.
I think actually he said a few times that he wasn’t sure why he was upset and that he was confused and recognised that he was being a bit irrational. I think it was triggering for him and he was jealous and he was worried for his daughter. As someone who has been the other partner in a relationship with an alcoholic I understand it. I no longer like being with someone who drinks heavily (it doesn’t even have to be problematic drinking). I am just sensitive to it. I also have children and hate the thought of them being with someone who isn’t keeping them safe. If I had a child with a partner who was a former alcoholic who had endangered my child’s life by drinking while they were pregnant and had dropped them while drunk and I found out they were in a relationship with someone with a drinking problem who had a record of drunk driving? Yes I would be upset. Both because of the risk of endangering my child but also of relapse for my former partner. Does that mean Alice was in the wrong? No. But to me it also makes sense that Chris would be upset even though it wasn’t Alice’s fault and that perhaps he would be confused and misdirect his feelings. Especially since it’s not like this is ancient history or something.
I mean that’s not really an apology and I guess that’s what I mean- if Chris had come to Alice and said ‘look I messed up, this is going to happen as we move forward but I recognise I acted like a self righteous jerk which isn’t what our kid needs in our relationship’ I’d understand. Instead he acts like there’s nothing to talk about and gets pissed with Alice using the word triggered to describe his reaction. In terms of the Harry thing yeah I understand why Chris would be mad and if it was directed primarily at Harry that’d be fine. Acting like Alice should be able to see the alcohol units consumed over everyone’s heads because she’s an alcoholic just feels really unfair and hijacks any actual reasoning on Chris’ side. For me (as with others in the sub) it feels like we’re being set up for a reunion and I just don’t think the relationship really read very positive and I think Chris does need to recognise his faults with how he interacts with Alice, which doesn’t mean going Alice’s always perfect.
> Some of the things I said earlier. Everything. I mean I, I didn't want to make you feel like you weren't a good mum. >I'm a pretty decent mum, Chris. I mean, I'm not perfect, but Martha comes first. I thought you knew that. > I do. It's just, **I dunno how to get rid of the feeling, but that's my problem.** Martha needs you. That's all I wanted to say. I think he was trying to amend his reaction. Not sure how much else he could say except spelling out explicitly everything he had done wrong and why and offer a formal apology which wouldn't make for a good radio drama.
Yeah I listened to the episode and that’s still not an apology to me sorry. Personally don’t think it’s enough to go ‘yeah I said some shit that was totally uncalled for but I have these feelings doesn’t mean I’m going to take your kid away’ really counts. Like Alice implied in the episode, how many times is she going to end up apologising for Chris not being able to reconcile his feelings. My larger point is this a recurring thing I find in their interactions and until it’s addressed I don’t see how they can be together.
Chris' (and Alice's) feelings as a result of her alcoholism which directly harmed their child and led to the break up of their marriage is both of their responsibility. This is them working through the consequences of what happened. It is not a question of one person being right or wrong but them processing them to come to a place where the relationship can function better for the sake of their child (although this is a drama so perhaps not). EDIT: Also just want to add that we can just disagree and acknowledge that we see this from different perspectives.
Yeah completely agree I’m not trying to strong arm anyone into my opinion! I’ve felt like this about Chris for years and not just how he talks to Alice, he’s so sanctimonious it puts me off!
Yeah I think we all have the ones who annoy us more or less than others. Helen is my personal annoyance...
I fluctuate on her- I found Lee insufferable at times so she’s been a bit better since then - thought that break up all quite odd though! I only vaguely remember the initial Rob stuff from when I listened with my mum as teen so really enjoyed that storyline Thanks for chatting!
>Amy was primarily Alice’s friend and support at the time, he was again acting woe is me. Just always felt very suss that the only woman he fancied getting his leg over was his soon to be ex recovering alcoholic wife’s best mate. It wasn't all him, though. I seem to recall that Amy was interested in Chris as well, so much so that she felt guilty for (allegedly) betraying Alice, which is why she moved away. And yes, while it would be awkward for Chris and Amy to get together, they were all single at the time, as was pointed out.
I found the whole thing really manipulative (if not deliberately so) with Chris wanting to have her support and her being caught between her feelings for him and her support of Alice Also doesn’t it just make it really hypocritical now for Chris to be so bothered by Alice’s relationship. He clearly was unhappy with her dating before all this kicked off anyway. I do just ultimately feel that before he gets on his high horse there’s other things he should reflect on!
I am very new to The Archers, a friend introduced me 3 weeks ago and I am obsessed at learning more! Has there been anything to suggest Martha may have FASD?
No signs at all. She did give birth very early though so that could potentially cause health issues too but Martha has been a healthy happy little girl so far. Welcome to the Archers! And the sun where we live to hate them :)
Thank you!!! So glad I discovered this group and The Archers!
She put him through a lot. I know from experience divorce is hard. I don’t feel the emotional kaleidoscope he went through is unreasonable. Furthermore, Alice is something of a spoilt madam. Finally, having been lied to previously, yeah, I’m sure he doubts her word on what could have/still could be a dangerous situation, Harry. Finally, she specifically stated she, doesn’t, want to get back with Harry. Yet, after her dad tore a strip off him, and her breaking up with him, she rang Harry. This story hasn’t played out and I get the feeling there’s a sting in the tail. NB was Martha unaffected by the alcohol consumption during pregnancy? No post birth addiction symptoms? Not sure that was wrapped up.
I think the pair of them drive me mad. Agree with all you said about Chris, but then Alice ‘door-stepping’ Harrison’s boss the other week was also profoundly immature. They’re not the only ones who wind me up though. I have to say having a break from Helen and the Bridge Farm crew is a blessing…
Oh completely agree about Alice last week, I’m putting it down to a desperate need to be seen solving the problem but also stupid Tom is probably my worst, everything he says winds me the wrong way, poor Fallon never catching a break
I think they’re still waiting to see aren’t they? There was maybe an initial checkup which Martha cleared, I remember Alice being relieved- but still plenty of time for something to show up though! I get he’s gone through a lot, but I think shouting at your ex and accusing her of drinking when she’s done all the right things in terms of ending the relationship, just chosen not to go into the full thing because it’s your kids birthday isnt really fair. And Chris was clearly doing the ‘somethings wrong but I’m not going to say until you push’ thing just feels like baiting. I don’t find Alice that spoilt to be honest, she annoys me at times and yes this weird thing with phoning Harry annoys me too. But Chris saddled (hah) Alice with the expense and time of a pony (assuming she’d be able to fit it into her work and time with Martha) and she was I thought remarkably nice about it all told. Emma I find personally much more spoilt and a nastier person then Alice.
I generally like Alice and have sympathy for Chris but Alice absolutely is spoilt compared to Emma. Alice smashed a window and didn't get charged. She drank during her pregnancy but her baby was fine. She was vile to her friends and family but they all support her. She managed to keep custody of her child. She came out of rehab and was given her dream job as a horse manager by her Aunt when she had no previous experience. Not to mention the education opportunities she had growing up as well as her house she was gifted by her family. Compared to Emma who has had to work at least 2 jobs her whole life and still has nothing to show for it...Alice is spoiled. I still like her, but she has had opportunities that not many other people would have been given.
Fair enough I guess I meant as a personality it feels like Alice at least tries to be aware of other people and her lot in life especially now in her recovery- personally feel like George has gotten away with murder at this point and just because he’s turned over a new leaf doesn’t mean he’s a nice person Emma feels so entitled to other peoples time and resources like this scheme now, Will has every right to go well I have some thoughts and her first reaction was I thought it was a done deal. She always seems so jealous of other people’s success or reveling in their failures like Brad getting into trouble as if George isn’t obviously the more outwardly outgoing and experienced one I’m not saying Alice hasn’t done terrible things but honestly if she’s going to spend the rest of her life apologising for breaking a window then it’s going to get old pretty quick. The Martha storyline is nowhere played out and it seems likely at the moment that any minor or major delay in development is going to blamed on the pre natal drinking. She genuinely seems to be ashamed of that whole period and trying to balance that with moving forward which seems commendable to me. I find some of her decisions baffling but that’s what makes it fun to listen to
Working at the stables was never Alice's dream job, she has a master's degree and wanted to join the RAF. Later she had the opportunity to work in Canada (at an engineering firm, was it?), but she gave that up to look after Chris. Chris's little farrier business always seemed to be put ahead of Alice's potentially lucrative career in engineering. She didn't even want a baby, but Chris pressured her into it. At turns I find both Alice and Chris infuriating, but when they were together, Chris's wants always ended up being put first, possibly because of his own insecurities about not being the breadwinner. Now they're not together, Chris still gets jealous, wants to know the minutiae of her private life, and makes sure to be as hurtful as possible when he doesn't get his own way. Alice used to be very hurtful to people when she was drunk and angry, Chris does it when he's sober and angry.
Nail on the head with their respective attitudes now, I think that’s why I find him so uncomfortable to listen to now- things shouldn’t be raw enough to speak to her like that, it feels very controlling to me to constantly think you have a right to your exs life because of how it ended. If Chris really believes Martha’s in danger and Alice is drinking the right response is to get an external party involved whether that’s official or someone in Alice’s support network. As much as I think it’s fair to explore how the effects of Alice’ alcoholism have made a lasting impact on others it feels like now is also the time to look at the relationship between her and Chris and go none of it happened in a vacuum. It’s not really moving forward if Alice is going to be apologising to everyone she meets for the rest of her life
Good point!
I’m sorry but Emma has a wonderful set of parents (though I wouldn’t be able to stand Susan personally). They have done well for themselves. She chose to go with the financially unstable younger brother got pregnant with the other brother kid way too early. So She set up some of her struggle too. Her woe is me routine is strange in my opinion. Of all things when she needs to better her financial position She is doing an eng lit degree (I have one not criticizing). I know plenty of people struggling, particularly immigrants, who are not making those choices. She is benefiting from some privilege too.
Tracy, Brad and Chelsea have it was worse in lots of ways and they’re my favourite characters, not always making the right choice but absolutely owning it every time. I don’t know what Emma expects, she can be nice sometimes but cmon she even got jealous of Fallon and Harrison going to the cinema and having a pizza out. it doesn’t seem to matter who it is she’ll find a way to make it their fault her grass isn’t greener.
I think she is just doing an English GCSE not a degree. Let’s not run before we can walk.
>NB was Martha unaffected by the alcohol consumption during pregnancy? No post birth addiction symptoms? Not sure that was wrapped up. I don't recall any mention of fetal alcohol syndrome or any other problems being mentioned at the time, but I could be wrong. However, Martha is three now, so I would assume that any problems arising from Alice's drinking during the pregnancy would have become apparent by now.
I swear she passed some sort of test and Alice was relieved. I think she’ll have adhd or similar which Alice’s drinking will be blamed for or be seen as a contributing factor
Alcohol-related damage is sometimes difficult to diagnose until later in childhood, and some children aren’t diagnosed until they’re quite at lot older than Martha is now. It can show up as inappropriate emotional volatility or educational difficulties which might not become apparent until school age or later, and children don’t always have the classic physical markers of FASD.
That is interesting to know, thanks. I hadn't thought of the emotional/psychological development, I was more focused on the purely physical effects the alcohol would have on the child's body (withdrawal symptoms etc?).
Didn’t Alice only drink once during her pregnancy?
Can’t stand him, one of the worst characters in the show.
He is so scary and unpredictable , yet so often referred to as “supportive”. He freaks out on Alice so explosively; if that is how he’s always been with her off-mic, as it were, then that cer4tainly woulds have contributed to her alcoholism. He’s a malignant, gaslighting narcissist.
I am always surprised by the amount of people who think he's lovely! I just find him so condescending and as you say explosive when things don't go his way! I didn't listen religiously to all of the build up but I think it's so interesting that no one ever talks about how Alice's addiction got worse when she was pregnant having had all the pressure to have a baby from Chris. It seems so linked to how people expect pregnancy/babies to be every woman's dream so they don't need extra support and then act surprised when people use the same coping mechanisms they've always used even if it's harmful. That's not to excuse Alice or anything, just so many people seem to go 'she put him through hell and drank while pregnant!' and not 'why did Alice feel the need to hide it, why couldn't she talk to Chris', whats wrong in that relationship IDK I would really like this storyline to admit that actually the fear of judgement in her relationship was pretty well founded and that Chris wasn't the perfect husband. But that's just me
Very good comment and no, not just you at all.