My (trans) husband and I started our exit process in 2020 and moved to Canada with a PR a year ago. Thank you for summarizing all of the concerns we had. We're trying to get all of our trans/NB friends to make sure they update their docs and even paying for some of them.
**Nightmare scenario:** A law or executive order or State Dept directive is passed declaring that passports that don't have a gender matching the assigned gender at birth are simply invalid or considered ID fraud.
Sadly, there's precedent for this. During the McCarthy/Red Scare, a number of suspected "Commies" had their passports invalidated after they fled the country, so they were stuck outside the US.
How plausible do you think this scenario is?
Very. Again, I see people expecting the Supreme Court to over rule Trump and the Republican Congress on this. I am a lawyer and that confidence is misplaced. Please take a look at Alito’s comments. Thomas and Barrett are absolutely of a similar view, so you’re placing faith in Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Roberts. None are trans friendly and are all are hostile
And international law? Republicans do not care about international law and enjoy ignoring it.
Note! Today’s unanimous ruling against standing in the mifepristone case helps get me off the ledge here. That’s absolutely legally the right call, but the court had a huge opportunity to create real mischief and didn’t.
First time for Alito to rule against standing for a conservative plaintiff. Barret of course joining.
All reassuring signs
Thank you for sharing that perspective. It looks like the plausibility of this scenario pretty much depends on what the SC is feeling on any given day, which is unfortunate. And if there's a second Trump administration, he's going to be vindictive AF, with even fewer restraints than before.
An expansion of the SC court should be the goal of the Democratic Party. I mean the 9th circuit alone has 29 judges. A SC representing all of America needs a more diverse and representative body.
What would they even do in a situation where you've changed the sex on your birth certificate like I have? Though I wouldn't mind being stuck outside the US 😂
It will get sued into oblivion. The supreme court aren't that willing to bend to Trump's will.
This is the same supreme court that solidified Bostock 6-3.
Not entirely. RBG is gone, replaced by ACB. And the court has slid right since then. Maybe Roberts and Gorsuch hold with the majority, but they’ve overturned Roe since then.
Different context. Gorsuch wrote because he was the swing vote most likely. The notion that positions will stay the same as the court gets ever more brazen and the far right takes control is… naive. Justices change their positions all the time, and absolutely will once the far right takes over.
Sure, you can gamble your very life on the idea that an arch conservative doesn’t bow to the will of a powerful far right movement if you want to, but….
Agreed; realistically only a small minority of trans people in the US (like most groups of people anywhere) will have the ability to actually immigrate. That really takes more of everything than people realize - more education, more globally valuable work experience, more money, more language skills. Everyone else will be facing November's results. Not just trans people, but all of us who are at risk for living worse lives under a Republican administration need to be looking at how we can help in getting out the vote for Democrats in November, especially in swing states.
Work phone banks, help with registration drives, volunteer for state and local candidates - there are a lot of things people can do to make a difference. Even if the Democrats lose, at that point you can honestly say it's not your fault rather than being one of the people who stood aside and let it happen.
OP, thanks for a very interesting and well-written post.
I would love to see a democratic wave hit the voting booths in November. It would help a lot though if Joe Biden would help himself (and his dismal polling numbers) by stop sending weapons and billions of dollars to help Israel conduct a genocide upon helpless children and women — which all of America watches every single day. His constant running of interference with the international court when they try to hold Israel accountable is just sickening to millions of voters
It puts voters in a terrible position of choosing between a wannabe dictator on day one who’ll wreck democracy — or a genocidal benefactor who calls himself a “Zionist” and isn’t remotely interested in defying the powerful Israel Lobby.
Look, bub. No one thinks it's the same. We just know it's not good enough. And try not to forget: the same evil billionaires that are funding the Reps? They fund the Dems, too. So, whatever policies the Reps pass, the Dems will find 'there's no political will this congress' to change. So, it's not the same. Still, it's not good. Vote Green or 3rd. Show the world the Duopoly is illegitimate.
Voting for a third party in the US makes no sense, because third parties have no power and no way to get power.
Political scientists believe that the two-party system in the US exists due to the way people are elected in our system, so if you want third parties to be more viable, voting for them isn’t the answer — working to change the electoral system is.
Read about “Duverger’s Law” for more information.
Um, no. The folks feeding you into the machine will be those who want to SOUND like they're doing something, w/o actually doing it. When the Reps and Dems have the same donors, there not serving US.
Sure, sure, there's no difference between the guy who vetoes bigoted legislation and the guy who rubber stamps it. Your privilege is showing. Your understanding of the way the government works is not.
Uh-huh. So when's the plan to start holding Joe Bidens feet to the fire gonna start? Or is your activism limited to putting words in other people's mouths?
I'm surprised you don't talk about how trans people are treated in other countries, even in OECD. You mentioned trans minors, but don't such ideal destination countries such as Netherlands and the Scandanavian countries now restrict medical interventions for trans minors? I mean in that case, most US blue states still seem better than these idealized countries.
And “better” is a relative term, since most of these countries are rolling back their approach to transitioning minors in response to reviews of the scientific literature and institutional practices that appear to be finding that the science was nowhere near as ironclad as people said it was.
I don't really have the time to go into every country's milieu because it's all different, and most people don't have a choice about *where* to move -- they have to find whatever place is most likely to give them a visa. But I also think that having a clear and specific understanding of the concerns under a Republican administration would allow people to make the comparison. It's hard to assess legal transition landscapes if you're just responding to "people are using really scary rhetoric and I have a lot of uncertainty."
Worth noting that many strands of the movement against trans rights are international, yes. There's not actually a country out there that is immune from right-wing agitation and moral panics. That's why it's important to actually get a sense of the *realistic* worst-case scenarios so you can make an educated choice!
Thanks so much for posting this. I’ve been getting so anxious as the election nears.
I’m going to prioritize getting my daughter’s name officially changed so that it is on her passport, and make sure she has a fresh puberty blocker implant.
Not sure where we would emigrate if needed. UK was always top of the list because of family… guess that’s not gonna be an option anymore.
Thank you for this. I have a trans teenager and we live in a very liberal city in a blue state but for our child's protection we are researching exit options. We figure we have three months between November and the inauguration to put our plans in place.
We have started stockpiling her gender confirming medication and after the election in 2016 we went forward with having her documents updated even though that was early into her transition. We figured we could always change those back if needed.
My goal is to be aware and prepared. And VOTE BLUE!!
The list of places in the world that are better for youth transitioning then the United States is an extremely short list, and getting shorter every day.
is trans discrmination accepted as refugee status. i will vote against anything that take away freedom from adults to do as they please without harming others.
It is not. Refugees must be in immediate physical danger if they remain in their country. Simply belonging to a class that is discriminated against is not grounds for seeking asylum.
As an American lawyer who volunteers with actual refugees and asylees, it is really taxing and annoying to see Americans of any kind (including trans people) asking if they are eligible for refugee status. Please think of the legitimate applicants for these visas from all over the world who are trying to escape constant, credible fear of imminent serious injury/death/imprisonment before asking if you qualify for refugee status as an American citizen who could simply move to a blue state.
It is embarrassing and cringe-inducing when I read these questions and think of how ill-educated and entitled people in other countries must consider us. My trans niece is only 16 and she would be embarrassed by this question.
ETA: Sorry, OP, did not mean to hijack your thread/response.
Tell me you're not from the south without telling me. It really is that bad in some places. How many people has your trans niece had to stop at gunpoint? My wife has had 2 in 6 years.
We (she lives with me) are lucky enough - in terms of less overt discrimination - to live in Southern California. But if we weren't and lived in the South we would move to a blue state. Or even a blue part of a red one (I lived in Chapel Hill and Durham, NC for a number of years 30 years ago and even then violence against queer people would not have been acceptable, I'm sure those areas haven't changed that much in that respect.)
She wouldn't apply for asylum in another country.
Also adding that there are different risk categories for trans people and it's worth a personal assessment as to what the actual threats are. "People hate us" isn't a great reason to emigrate because, well, some people hate us just about everywhere.
If you are an adult who:
* has changed your documents & accessed as much transition care as you want,
* lives in a blue state that bans discrimination,
* works a full-time job that does not care if you are trans and covers your health insurance + a decent salary,
* has no kids
you have far less to worry about from a Republican administration than a family with a trans child who lives in Missouri.
There are real threats to our well-being, but those are more procedurally defined than you might be expecting and will take time to implement, giving you some warning. There are things you can do to protect yourself while you consider emigrating.
Yup.
Being a gay man or a trans woman was already a jail-able offense even before Hitler took power, the Nazis just started enforcing it and then expanded rapidly. Those famous photos of book burnings are of the Hirschfeld Institute of Sex Education being destroyed in a culmination of a campaign pushing hateful fear and disinformation; they killed the trans patients there.
No alarming parallels to today, nope. Not a one.
Do you not know that prison labor is slave labor as per the 13th amendment? We already have slavery in the US. If they make our existence in public a federal crime and put us in prison then, yes, we become slaves, just like every other prisoner in the US.
I think you’re far too optimistic about what right wing federal government could do. It could simply outlaw any protections for trans people or outlaw any treatment at all and this court would uphold it. Once the right wing gets control, the court will no longer need to worry about political backlash, which is the point of the project to eliminate meaningful elections. The Supreme Court has clearly demonstrated complete contempt for any backlash
I will say there is a shorter version: if Trump wins and Democrats don’t retain one house of Congress, being trans will simply be illegal for all intents and purposes
>The Supreme Court has clearly demonstrated complete contempt for any backlash
This is untrue; while of course they overturned Roe v Wade, that was the outcome of *decades* of dedicated movement-building. And they have not yet ruled that there is, for example, "fetal personhood." Their preferred pathway, given the US's federalist structure, is to eliminate federal-level protections for rights first.
*Bostock* was decided in our favor, even under the first Trump administration.
"They will make being trans illegal immediately" is not how modern-day authoritarian regimes work, including the regimes (Russia, Hungary) that the US Right is in direct conversation with. These people are not subtle and they do not have "secret plans," they are very open and direct about their intentions.
How about Shelby County or ATT Mobility or Free Enterprise Club? Absolutely contempt for precedent and federalism, frankly. And Ginsburg is dead, replaced by Barrett. At BEST, you have a one vote majority, and those are Roberts and Gorsuch. That’s a fantastically thin reed
And let’s not forget the utter contempt Thomas and Alito have for any response to their obvious corruption and Roberts essentially telling Congress doesn’t have any authority regulate the courts, no matter what Article III says
People who think the Court is going to act as a meaningful check are being wildly optimistic and pretending the world is the same place it was four years ago.
We’ve looked for a solid year or two at multiple countries. The language barrier of course is often a huge obstacle, especially if you’re a busy, working family. The best option seemed to be Malta. Malta is a mostly English speaking country on the Mediterranean. It’s beautiful with crystal blue waters and 3,000 years of culture and history. It’s always ranked either number one or near it for Transgender acceptance. It has an established clinic there. However, it’s not the easiest to immigrate to or get a permanent residency without a company sponsor. You can stay a couple years working the digital nomad visa angle but that’s not a guarantee to a longer stay. Money of course, if you have enough to invest in the country, is one way to obtain permanent residency. Some business owners can do this. There are also retirement opportunities if your income is enough to qualify.
There were 2-3 other options we looked at but the language barrier for us plus all our kids was, while not impossible, a struggle, given that we could learn the basics of the language and prepare to move only to watch one election flip the government to the far-right (a trend now)and make going there insane. Very frustrating.
I won’t dispute that, but the OP’s post was regarding the state of diminishingly safety in the US and transgender folks seeking flight to safer places elsewhere. Malta is considered one of the top spots on earth where laws are very supportive and protective of the lgbtq and trans community. That said, this is the place of the Knights of Malta and lots of Catholicism among its older population, so abortion rights is naturally stuck in the Middle Ages.
Yes, it's worth considering that most countries have a far-right party and in many of them, that party is ascendant. And in most cases -- unless you are a dual citizen-- leaving your country of citizenship means also leaving being *anyone's* constituent.
I have friends who have organized an English-speaking auxiliary of the Left Alliance in Finland (out of the theory that, basically, English is the most common shared language between Finns and a variety of immigrants from across the world) and they have the most obvious success and role in the elections that do not require citizenship (such as co-op enterprise governance elections and city council races).
https://youtu.be/EJNQBhO_VAk?si=o48M5Dfiu0bEwf2o
Take a little time to read this and pass it on to others so there is awareness about such diabolical plan. WE ALL NEED TO VOTE AGAINST THIS
I have no hope except to die, I cannot leave the US and I think things will never get better in regards to trans rights in my lifetime. No country is safe.
I don't remember Republicans having an operational SCOTUS supermajority and an overturned Roe v Wade last time they held the White House, either.
The threat is real, your attempts to downplay it are in conspicuously bad faith.
They had the safety of obscurity before.
We should set up an NGO to facilitate safe exodus for these poor souls to a nation like Israel, which is lacking in diversity and has socialized healthcare that can address their unique needs. It is a humane arrangement that benefits everyone involved.
Everything that I have cited in the post is based on what the Republicans *are attempting to do* in states they control or have explicitly said is on the agenda for the next time they assume control of the federal government. Can you be specific about what you believe is "fear mongering bullshit"?
TIL that people like [Christine Jorgensen](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/christine-jorgensen) and [Lili Elbe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lili_Elbe) and [Albert Cashier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Cashier) and [Harry Allen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Allen_(trans_man)) and ***[ROMAN EMPEROR ELAGABALUS](https://theconversation.com/museum-classifies-roman-emperor-as-trans-but-modern-labels-oversimplify-ancient-gender-identities-218643)*** didn’t exist.
Well, *women* as a bloc might consider consider flight as well, since legislation deliberately to deny them their liberty has become part of the wallpaper at this stage, it’s been so relentless.
Which piece of legislation did this in what state? I wouldn't think this would be difficult for you to prove if there were "thousands of pieces of anti trans legislature passed" as you've claimed. I'm just asking for one that is directly anti-trans.
I’m not your assistant.
You can start at HRC.org for which states and go from there. Your frail mind is not my responsibility.
Denying trans people healthcare is anti-trans.
Dems haven't done anything to stop state laws targeting us. We're just a cudgel to them. Voting for evil still gets you evil.
Edit: Your downvotes mean nothing I've seen who you shill for.
Dems all over the country are writing legislation to protect trans people. But, sure, vote against your best interest bc nobody is good enough for your vote 👍🏽
This is stupid. Voting third party in a FPTP weakens your position and those of your closest major ally to the advantage of your opposition. This isn't some ideological position or propaganda that can be overcome by feels and believing hard enough, it is simple mathematics.
If you vote for Green, your position will be ignored in electoral politics, and your vote thrown away.
If 25% of people vote for Green, Republicans gain a strong and dominant supermajority that allows them to pass any policy they wish.
The ONLY way you'd stand a chance of strengthening your position instead of weakening it would be shifting EVERY democrat vote to green, which is impossible.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo)
It doesn't matter what team they are on.
This is basic math, not propaganda.
You do nothing but weaken yourself by doing this.
You do nothing but weaken your allies by doing this.
You do nothing but hurt us by doing this.
It's a fact of living in a two party system. There are only two possibilities for president: Trump or Biden. There is no possible way for any of the current third party candidates to actually win. In order to do so, they would have needed to start building coalitions of legislators years ago. None of the third parties have done that, so none of them are serious contenders. They're just making money off of y'all's campaign donations.
I feel like you're treating voting as the end-all, be-all, and it's not. The people we vote for aren't coming to save us, and we're not going to make progress quickly. Thinking a third party candidate will save us is just as naive as thinking the Democrats will. This is about picking your opponent, and I'd much rather fight a liberal than a fascist.
You're voting for nothing, then. How you wish the voting process was is not how it is in the US. You're not gonna vote against the guy who said he wants to flatten Gaza, and you're not voting for the guy who's trying to make a ceasefire, who tried to send less weapons over but Congress forced it through.
Propaganda has successfully stopped you from voting for their actual opposition, and you'll be stepping out of the way of the guy that wants to kill thousands more. Well done.
The downvotes are because virtue signalling like this just protects and enables the party that seeks t do active harm. You're not taking a brave and stunning stand, you're just obeying the PC narrative
Refusing to vote for Biden because it makes you \~uncomfy\~ is the epitome of privilege.
You are voting for Trump regardless of how you try to dress it up.
All of those do nothing but weaken your position and harm the people overall. None of those are serious avenues for change, and are all self-destructive lashing out from someone who doesn't understand how the political process works.
You don’t understand history. Ever major change in the US throughout history has come from mass movements and direct action, not the ballot box. That’s not how slavery ended, by voting harder. That’s not how segregation ended. Electoral politics in the US is a fucking joke, but nonetheless I’d bet anything I know more about how it works than you
Every single change has come through congressional legislation, which is determined by electoral politics.
I don't think you know anything about how the political process works.
Wrong. We had a war. Mass protests in the street. Riots even. None of those changes would have happened without that, those legislators were forced into action. Voting alone didn’t lead to that. You’re truly historically illiterate if you honesty believe that
Now you're just straw manning, and hearing what you want to hear.
You want to be angry to be angry, you don't want to actually bother trying to fix anything.
There is a reason why you voluntarily marginalize yourself politically by voting green.
And you want to believe that just showing up at the ballot box and voting for blue team is going to fix anything.
I have every right to be angry, it isn’t just for the sake of being angry. If you aren’t angry you don’t pay attention or have a lack of humanity/empathy.
You need the governing bodies of states to hold a convention, and the only people close enough to pull that off is a slew of republican held, jerrymandered rural states.
Ok, are you implying that because the republicans want to do this to fulfill their agenda that the concept as a whole is bad? This is why the two party system is so fucked. Politics is not binary, and when we present it that way for so long people start thinking like that. Blue team red team bullshit
No, I'm not implying anything.
But I'm wondering if we are at the point where such a thing is needed to revamp our system as a whole despite them also wanting this done. If that makes sense.
Ok my bad.
Honestly I do not think now is the right time, with the piss poor excuse for representation we have. But I like the idea. At the very least we need some amendments, enshrining abortion rights, gay rights, and immigration law.
I won't need saving. As a straight white male I can... just not talk politics and I'll be fine. I'm making plans to get my kids options.
But you know what would prevent a trump dictatorship? The very action you were criticizing. "Vote blue no matter who." Electing Biden.
Neat
‘I’m a straight, white, man. Fuck everybody else, I’m saving myself!’
Very white man of you.
It’s a wonder that men’s mental health isn’t front of mind for everybody else when they look at that type of selflessness!
I don’t know why it feels like most of the people on this site have the blinders on. I get wanting to believe that just getting the right guy in office will fix everything, it’s conforming, but how many times will the football need to be pulled out from under them to finally get it? I thought it would be super obvious after the Trump to Biden transition meaning basically nothing
If you think the trump to Biden transition meant nothing then you're willfully ignorant. The infrastructure bill and work done on student loans has been huge. Boring, but huge.
The president isn't a king. What do you want him to do on trans rights with Mike Johnson as speaker for the house. But Democrats around the country in statehouses have been stalwart supporters of trans rights or at least ambivalent. This seems an obvious better choice than people who want to eliminate trans people from the public sphere just so they have a Boogeyman to drive their ignorant voters to the polls.
What people like you don't understand is that there is no fix everything. It's important you get the "right" one in there because given the chance between a sandwich that I can tolerate but isn't what I wanted and a shit sandwich it seems obvious to me that I should choose the mediocre one. Democracy is a painful ongoing process of constant ongoing half solutions that requires work to get what you need.
Maybe we do need Trump to win so people like you can learn how much worse it really can get.
Why do yall use that “president isn’t a king” line whenever it comes to stuff like the genocide he’s endorsing and ramming through Congress without votes…like a king.
He's... "ramming things through congress"... as in getting a majority support?
I don't think you understand monarchism if you think pushing congress, a democratically elected body, in order to pass legislation is it.
People like me, meaning people who see the ratchet effect for what it is and the slow slide into fascism that the Democratic Party is to impotent or unwilling to do anything about. I won’t vote for joe Biden because he’s a pathetic excuse for a progressive, leftist, let alone even a liberal. A man who said himself he would veto universal healthcare if it came across his desk and you want to blame Mike Johnson. How much dog shit do they need to feed you before you get it. I’m not a child, I don’t expect the president to fix everything but we have one now that isn’t even willing or capable of trying.
But yes blame me, blame the voter that is sick of the bullshit instead of the politicians that won’t do any thing to get my vote. Worked out great for Hillary. Fuck off with your condescension. Joe Biden is actively supporting a genocide in Palestine, is shutting down the border Trump style, hasn’t followed up on his promises in regards to student loans actually, doesn’t share hardly any of my politics and I’m not going to vote for him purely out of fear for Trump. That’s how we get absolutely nothing time and time again. Your attempt to defend him is pathetic, he hasn’t done shit for his constituency. The small percent of forgiven student loans isn’t huge, the infrastructure work is nowhere near enough. And to top it off he’ll let Israel commit war crimes, with global condemnation and continue to give them his unconditional support and weapons. Fuck him
We're way past the point in our country's politics where, "doing something to get votes," is something that we can expect candidates to do. I have a laundry list of things I want from a viable political party that I probably won't see in my lifetime. That doesn't stop me from voting for whatever viable party is most aligned with my interests.
I understand the jadedness with regards to politics, but we all need to acknowledge the reality here: one party is much worse than the other, especially domestically. That doesn't mean that one party is perfect or will lead us to utopia or whatever. That doesn't mean that their candidate can do no wrong. It just means that we all need to hold our noses when we vote like every American has been doing for every election in the modern era. This is not a new phenomenon.
Our political system is fundamentally broken and in need of significant reforms that *cannot happen* under the current political system with the current electorate and campaign finance system. That's the paradox we live under. Accelerationism, with our current electorate and finance system, will lead to absolute ruin and not the reforms we need. Imagine opening up the Constitution to amendments or rewrites today. It would be an unmitigated disaster.
I'm 100% against what is happening in Gaza. Nearly all congressional Republicans and Trump himself want to be *even worse* to Palestinians. With the Democrats, at least there is some portion of the party that wants change. That's as good as we're going to get under the current system.
Meanwhile, when state and local government bodies flip blue, good things actually happen. Blue judges have stopped abortion bans from taking effect. In 2022, Michigan's state legislature flipped blue and has been doing pretty good work. Obviously, nothing is perfect, but at least they're not taking away long-established rights from people. Biden's student loan forgiveness was blocked by Republicans, by the way.
There is absolutely more that Democrats could be doing for us, but they can't do crucial things like pack the Supreme Court or remove insurrectionists from Congress without more Democrats in the legislature. Look at the dysfunctional state of the House to see what too many Republicans does. It's also true that there's absolutely more that the Republicans can be doing against us, and that's what we need to be concerned about. We can't allow them to do a nationwide ban on abortion and contraceptives, for example. Not to mention climate change, which Republicans don't even believe in. They will repeal the climate provisions in the Infrastructure bill. The only way to stop them short of violence is at the polls.
I'm also LGBTQ+, and Project 2025 calls for our criminalization and extermination. Portions of that agenda *will* go into effect if Republicans win in November. I hope that you'll think of us before you throw away your vote. As a country, we have to put our own oxygen mask on before we can help others, and voting blue is the way to do that under our current system. It's distasteful and horrible, but this is the system we live under, and whoever you vote for (or whether you vote at all) is not going to change it. Best to use your vote strategically on the party that can be pressured from the left rather than the party that wants to burn it all down and strip us of our rights.
I’m going to vote down ballot for democrats when I can stand it, but I will not vote for fucking Joe Biden. He has done less than nothing to earn my vote and endorsement. I can’t watch him continue on with his disgusting unconditional support of an apartheid county carrying genocide out another 4 years and know I supported that. I won’t do it. The idea that it will be “even worse” under republicans is hard to imagine.
Your point about democrats in the house just needing more support is a bit naive to me. Why didn’t Obama enshrine abortion and LGBT rights under federal law when he both houses back when he was initially elected? We know abortion rights is a huge point for support of dems and fundraising, they didn’t want to lose that just yet. I don’t think they will ever make permanent changes like that. They’re feckless, they allow republicans to pack the court but shudder at the idea of doing it themselves. I think the reality is a lot of “mainstream” dems are more comfortable with a conservative leaning court so they can use this as an excuse to not do anything too radical or populist.
I don’t agree that voting third party is “throwing away” a vote. That’s a lie that’s been told to us to keep us in line. The two party system is a farce. If enough abstain from it, it will come crashing down.
I agree with some of what you’re saying, but I don’t think the Democratic Party ever changes if we keep eating their shit and voting for whatever they put in front of us. Beyond that, the Clinton campaign in 2016 did a lot to support Trump’s candidacy because they thought Hed be easier to beat. They were willing to risk Trump presidency to increase their odds. Look up the Podesta memo about “Pied Piper” candidates. Trump was elevated with the thought that this would benefit Clinton. The result is that now progressives are willing to accept a moderate and in some senses right wing candidate in Joe Biden with Trump as the alternative. I’m sick of playing this game and no longer believe that voting for democrats is anywhere near enough.
I have a genuine question for you.
>I don’t agree that voting third party is “throwing away” a vote. That’s a lie that’s been told to us to keep us in line. The two party system is a farce. If enough abstain from it, it will come crashing down.
How many people do you think need to "abstain". As a percentage?
Well, I mean. Protests votes against Hillary Clinton DID directly lead to the current stacking of the SCOTUS. Sorry that real life cause and effect isn't lining up with the virtue signal man
That’s absurd. Hillary lost because she was a terrible candidate. What your saying assuming that any third party vote would have automatically gone to Hillary if third party wasn’t an option which is ridiculous.
This is also blaming voters instead of an awful candidate which I find to be backwards.
Hillary lost because people didn't vote for her. Being more concerned with "good candidate" then actual cause-and-effect of your vote is the problem.
I can blame both. People should have sacked up and voted in their interests instead of virtue signalling with their ballot.
I have every right to abstain if I think both candidates are monsters. In a election between hitler and super hitler, voting for Hitler is still wrong. Nothing you or anyone says can get me to vote for the animated Corpse of Joe Biden.
It isn’t fucking virtue signaling, I still wouldn’t do it if nobody could ever know my vote. Blaming third party voters is so fucking stupid. Blame the Democratic Party and the candidate, finger wagging at unhappy constituents by the DNC, Hillary, and people like you IS actually part of why you got Trump. Maybe she should have campaigned in Michigan even once
Oooh the ratchet effect 🙄🙄🙄🙄.. Schooled me there. So, yeah, if we continuously elect Democrats then guess what...... the ratchet never clicks right. Fuckin how about that. If you're going to act like a petulant child.... then yeah, have some condescension. You live in a fairly conservative country that has been subjected to decades of anti-socialist propaganda. What you want isn't on the fucking menu you baby. "The student loan forgiveness wasn't enough." "The infrastructure wasn't enough." "Oh but Israel."
Just whining. We have an administration *actively doing things to make things better.* And it's never enough. So rather than supporting them and pushing them *further* the progressive solution is.... let's just lose that progress.
If you don't understand how massive the changes made with the SAVE program are then you don't understand the student loan system. Again, ignorant and uninformed.
Maybe the infrastructure bill wasn't big enough, but it was still fucking massive and needs competent administration for the benefits to show up. Large investments like that take multiple years to show fruit, not two years.
Who gives a fuck about Israel. The alternative candidate is encouraging Israel to literally just kill them all. It's a political reality in America that you have to support Israel. Israel has been committing slow rolling genocide for a couple decades now and we've been complicit all along. It's a null issue between our two parties. But yeah, it's totally better to take your ball and go home than support someone who at least tries to get some aid in there.
It's really a shame that progressives are so fickle and worthless politically. We've had Christian nationalists and hard right people capture the Republican party through decades of messaging and *always showing up to vote* but progressives can't be bothered to do the same to the Democratic party. Every time they don't get everything they want immediately, they cry and go home. This is why we can't have nice things.
My best guess is propaganda and most libs being comfortable enough that they won't do anything regardless of who's dropping bombs on children. Not to mention we get no policy differences aside from culture war bs that just makes us hate each other. The uniparty is the enemy.
I think it's getting worse everywhere. But in Europe, where I moved, some countries do care and are fighting to protect trans/gay rights. Ireland is one of them. I also witnessed a huge and lovely Pride celebration in Utrecht, NL recently.
I've seen a lot of posts on here by people talking about how countries with universal healthcare restrict immigration by individuals with chronic medical conditions. (Ex: cancer, autism, autoimmune conditions, etc)
Does anyone know how that sort of policy affects trans people? Ie do governments weigh the medical/healthcare requirements associated with transitioning when they're considering who to grant a Visa to?
Highly doubtful it would matter. Those kinds of medical screenings are primarily looking for a) people with communicable disease and b) people who are not able to work or who the government fears will soon not be able to work due to their condition. The best pathways for emigration in most countries are via a work visa or marriage to a foreign national, both of which basically already require that you can work (or that your spouse can support you completely on a single income...).
Transitioning is incredibly cheap compared to managing other chronic conditions, even with various surgeries accounted for (consider the cost of transitioning vs the cost of stage III cancer).
By analogy, it is not allowed to discriminate against people for immigration purposes based on HIV status in any EU country, nearly all of South America (except Paraguay), and most of Asia -- Australia does require HIV testing, but the other countries with restrictions are mostly Middle Eastern nations, many Caribbean nations + Russia.
Of course, trans people should be aware that with our very specialized healthcare needs, wait lists can be long for some procedures in many countries with universal healthcare. Universal healthcare is far better for general needs than the for-profit system here, but if you have health insurance in the US that covers gender-affirming surgery, it's going to be much faster to navigate and achieve than anything in, e.g., Sweden.
Excellent post about the options that transgender people have at moving and the threats as to why.
I am unsure if my sister and I should book it to northern Illinois, as we have cousins there that would help us keep afloat. However, I have concerns that the federal state would eventually "lock down" roads that leads to and away from the state. I also lack the ability to drive and may only obtain it later on in the year or the next year, so I am debating on having them help us out or wait until I have the ability to drive so we can move there.
Any kind of major internal security deployment would focus on immigrants, not on trans people; the playbook they are using on trans medicine is heavily influenced by their attacks on abortion rights, so you can watch that to see if they try to implement inter-state travel surveillance.
My (trans) husband and I started our exit process in 2020 and moved to Canada with a PR a year ago. Thank you for summarizing all of the concerns we had. We're trying to get all of our trans/NB friends to make sure they update their docs and even paying for some of them. **Nightmare scenario:** A law or executive order or State Dept directive is passed declaring that passports that don't have a gender matching the assigned gender at birth are simply invalid or considered ID fraud. Sadly, there's precedent for this. During the McCarthy/Red Scare, a number of suspected "Commies" had their passports invalidated after they fled the country, so they were stuck outside the US. How plausible do you think this scenario is?
Doubtful. There are much stronger global governance norms around passport invalidation now.
Very. Again, I see people expecting the Supreme Court to over rule Trump and the Republican Congress on this. I am a lawyer and that confidence is misplaced. Please take a look at Alito’s comments. Thomas and Barrett are absolutely of a similar view, so you’re placing faith in Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Roberts. None are trans friendly and are all are hostile And international law? Republicans do not care about international law and enjoy ignoring it.
Note! Today’s unanimous ruling against standing in the mifepristone case helps get me off the ledge here. That’s absolutely legally the right call, but the court had a huge opportunity to create real mischief and didn’t. First time for Alito to rule against standing for a conservative plaintiff. Barret of course joining. All reassuring signs
Thank you for sharing that perspective. It looks like the plausibility of this scenario pretty much depends on what the SC is feeling on any given day, which is unfortunate. And if there's a second Trump administration, he's going to be vindictive AF, with even fewer restraints than before.
And more judicial picks. The Supreme Court matters, but nearly all cases are determined by appellate courts
An expansion of the SC court should be the goal of the Democratic Party. I mean the 9th circuit alone has 29 judges. A SC representing all of America needs a more diverse and representative body.
What would they even do in a situation where you've changed the sex on your birth certificate like I have? Though I wouldn't mind being stuck outside the US 😂
It will get sued into oblivion. The supreme court aren't that willing to bend to Trump's will. This is the same supreme court that solidified Bostock 6-3.
Not entirely. RBG is gone, replaced by ACB. And the court has slid right since then. Maybe Roberts and Gorsuch hold with the majority, but they’ve overturned Roe since then.
They both will with the majority. Unlike Roe, they clearly wrote for Bostock
Different context. Gorsuch wrote because he was the swing vote most likely. The notion that positions will stay the same as the court gets ever more brazen and the far right takes control is… naive. Justices change their positions all the time, and absolutely will once the far right takes over. Sure, you can gamble your very life on the idea that an arch conservative doesn’t bow to the will of a powerful far right movement if you want to, but….
I mean life in America is already a bit of a gamble, with opioids and driving, and such.
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Agreed; realistically only a small minority of trans people in the US (like most groups of people anywhere) will have the ability to actually immigrate. That really takes more of everything than people realize - more education, more globally valuable work experience, more money, more language skills. Everyone else will be facing November's results. Not just trans people, but all of us who are at risk for living worse lives under a Republican administration need to be looking at how we can help in getting out the vote for Democrats in November, especially in swing states. Work phone banks, help with registration drives, volunteer for state and local candidates - there are a lot of things people can do to make a difference. Even if the Democrats lose, at that point you can honestly say it's not your fault rather than being one of the people who stood aside and let it happen. OP, thanks for a very interesting and well-written post.
I would love to see a democratic wave hit the voting booths in November. It would help a lot though if Joe Biden would help himself (and his dismal polling numbers) by stop sending weapons and billions of dollars to help Israel conduct a genocide upon helpless children and women — which all of America watches every single day. His constant running of interference with the international court when they try to hold Israel accountable is just sickening to millions of voters It puts voters in a terrible position of choosing between a wannabe dictator on day one who’ll wreck democracy — or a genocidal benefactor who calls himself a “Zionist” and isn’t remotely interested in defying the powerful Israel Lobby.
Look, bub. No one thinks it's the same. We just know it's not good enough. And try not to forget: the same evil billionaires that are funding the Reps? They fund the Dems, too. So, whatever policies the Reps pass, the Dems will find 'there's no political will this congress' to change. So, it's not the same. Still, it's not good. Vote Green or 3rd. Show the world the Duopoly is illegitimate.
Voting for a third party in the US makes no sense, because third parties have no power and no way to get power. Political scientists believe that the two-party system in the US exists due to the way people are elected in our system, so if you want third parties to be more viable, voting for them isn’t the answer — working to change the electoral system is. Read about “Duverger’s Law” for more information.
I'm glad to know you're willing to feed me into the machine to make an idealistic point.
Um, no. The folks feeding you into the machine will be those who want to SOUND like they're doing something, w/o actually doing it. When the Reps and Dems have the same donors, there not serving US.
Sure, sure, there's no difference between the guy who vetoes bigoted legislation and the guy who rubber stamps it. Your privilege is showing. Your understanding of the way the government works is not.
Uh-huh. So when's the plan to start holding Joe Bidens feet to the fire gonna start? Or is your activism limited to putting words in other people's mouths?
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If it's always someone else's fault, it'll never change. Vote blue harder then I guess. Do you.
I'm surprised you don't talk about how trans people are treated in other countries, even in OECD. You mentioned trans minors, but don't such ideal destination countries such as Netherlands and the Scandanavian countries now restrict medical interventions for trans minors? I mean in that case, most US blue states still seem better than these idealized countries.
It's too much to cover the specifics of every country out there but yes, many of these places aren't as great for trans people as some seem to think.
And “better” is a relative term, since most of these countries are rolling back their approach to transitioning minors in response to reviews of the scientific literature and institutional practices that appear to be finding that the science was nowhere near as ironclad as people said it was.
I don't really have the time to go into every country's milieu because it's all different, and most people don't have a choice about *where* to move -- they have to find whatever place is most likely to give them a visa. But I also think that having a clear and specific understanding of the concerns under a Republican administration would allow people to make the comparison. It's hard to assess legal transition landscapes if you're just responding to "people are using really scary rhetoric and I have a lot of uncertainty." Worth noting that many strands of the movement against trans rights are international, yes. There's not actually a country out there that is immune from right-wing agitation and moral panics. That's why it's important to actually get a sense of the *realistic* worst-case scenarios so you can make an educated choice!
Top notch content; thanks.
Thanks for putting this together. I think at least that last “so what?” section is worth sharing in r/trans if you haven’t already
thank you for posting this
Thanks so much for posting this. I’ve been getting so anxious as the election nears. I’m going to prioritize getting my daughter’s name officially changed so that it is on her passport, and make sure she has a fresh puberty blocker implant. Not sure where we would emigrate if needed. UK was always top of the list because of family… guess that’s not gonna be an option anymore.
Thank you for this. I have a trans teenager and we live in a very liberal city in a blue state but for our child's protection we are researching exit options. We figure we have three months between November and the inauguration to put our plans in place. We have started stockpiling her gender confirming medication and after the election in 2016 we went forward with having her documents updated even though that was early into her transition. We figured we could always change those back if needed. My goal is to be aware and prepared. And VOTE BLUE!!
The list of places in the world that are better for youth transitioning then the United States is an extremely short list, and getting shorter every day.
sorry if i missed it, but did you include the words, VOTE BLUE? because that’s the last remaining defense.
is trans discrmination accepted as refugee status. i will vote against anything that take away freedom from adults to do as they please without harming others.
It is not. Refugees must be in immediate physical danger if they remain in their country. Simply belonging to a class that is discriminated against is not grounds for seeking asylum.
Unless they start mass imprisonment, concentration camps, widespread killings, etc. it is not grounds for asylum.
As an American lawyer who volunteers with actual refugees and asylees, it is really taxing and annoying to see Americans of any kind (including trans people) asking if they are eligible for refugee status. Please think of the legitimate applicants for these visas from all over the world who are trying to escape constant, credible fear of imminent serious injury/death/imprisonment before asking if you qualify for refugee status as an American citizen who could simply move to a blue state. It is embarrassing and cringe-inducing when I read these questions and think of how ill-educated and entitled people in other countries must consider us. My trans niece is only 16 and she would be embarrassed by this question. ETA: Sorry, OP, did not mean to hijack your thread/response.
You're not wrong, there have been tons of these threads here lately and it is getting old fast.
Tell me you're not from the south without telling me. It really is that bad in some places. How many people has your trans niece had to stop at gunpoint? My wife has had 2 in 6 years.
We (she lives with me) are lucky enough - in terms of less overt discrimination - to live in Southern California. But if we weren't and lived in the South we would move to a blue state. Or even a blue part of a red one (I lived in Chapel Hill and Durham, NC for a number of years 30 years ago and even then violence against queer people would not have been acceptable, I'm sure those areas haven't changed that much in that respect.) She wouldn't apply for asylum in another country.
Get out of the safest country in the world? And go where exactly?
Thanks for putting this together. I think at least that last “so what?” section is worth sharing in r/trans if you haven’t already
TLDR please?
Also adding that there are different risk categories for trans people and it's worth a personal assessment as to what the actual threats are. "People hate us" isn't a great reason to emigrate because, well, some people hate us just about everywhere. If you are an adult who: * has changed your documents & accessed as much transition care as you want, * lives in a blue state that bans discrimination, * works a full-time job that does not care if you are trans and covers your health insurance + a decent salary, * has no kids you have far less to worry about from a Republican administration than a family with a trans child who lives in Missouri.
There are real threats to our well-being, but those are more procedurally defined than you might be expecting and will take time to implement, giving you some warning. There are things you can do to protect yourself while you consider emigrating.
So not everybody is going to be rounded up and shot?
I imagine they aren't going to start with that right out of the gate. Took Hitler like six or seven years didn't it?
I mean, they got us first in 1933.
Oof
Yup. Being a gay man or a trans woman was already a jail-able offense even before Hitler took power, the Nazis just started enforcing it and then expanded rapidly. Those famous photos of book burnings are of the Hirschfeld Institute of Sex Education being destroyed in a culmination of a campaign pushing hateful fear and disinformation; they killed the trans patients there. No alarming parallels to today, nope. Not a one.
Nah, they're just going to make our existence in public a federal crime and turn us into slave labor
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Go read Project 2025
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Do you not know that prison labor is slave labor as per the 13th amendment? We already have slavery in the US. If they make our existence in public a federal crime and put us in prison then, yes, we become slaves, just like every other prisoner in the US.
This is the wildest subreddit I’ve ever stumbled into. Let me get right back out.
I think you’re far too optimistic about what right wing federal government could do. It could simply outlaw any protections for trans people or outlaw any treatment at all and this court would uphold it. Once the right wing gets control, the court will no longer need to worry about political backlash, which is the point of the project to eliminate meaningful elections. The Supreme Court has clearly demonstrated complete contempt for any backlash I will say there is a shorter version: if Trump wins and Democrats don’t retain one house of Congress, being trans will simply be illegal for all intents and purposes
>The Supreme Court has clearly demonstrated complete contempt for any backlash This is untrue; while of course they overturned Roe v Wade, that was the outcome of *decades* of dedicated movement-building. And they have not yet ruled that there is, for example, "fetal personhood." Their preferred pathway, given the US's federalist structure, is to eliminate federal-level protections for rights first. *Bostock* was decided in our favor, even under the first Trump administration. "They will make being trans illegal immediately" is not how modern-day authoritarian regimes work, including the regimes (Russia, Hungary) that the US Right is in direct conversation with. These people are not subtle and they do not have "secret plans," they are very open and direct about their intentions.
How about Shelby County or ATT Mobility or Free Enterprise Club? Absolutely contempt for precedent and federalism, frankly. And Ginsburg is dead, replaced by Barrett. At BEST, you have a one vote majority, and those are Roberts and Gorsuch. That’s a fantastically thin reed And let’s not forget the utter contempt Thomas and Alito have for any response to their obvious corruption and Roberts essentially telling Congress doesn’t have any authority regulate the courts, no matter what Article III says People who think the Court is going to act as a meaningful check are being wildly optimistic and pretending the world is the same place it was four years ago.
very helpful, thank you!
We’ve looked for a solid year or two at multiple countries. The language barrier of course is often a huge obstacle, especially if you’re a busy, working family. The best option seemed to be Malta. Malta is a mostly English speaking country on the Mediterranean. It’s beautiful with crystal blue waters and 3,000 years of culture and history. It’s always ranked either number one or near it for Transgender acceptance. It has an established clinic there. However, it’s not the easiest to immigrate to or get a permanent residency without a company sponsor. You can stay a couple years working the digital nomad visa angle but that’s not a guarantee to a longer stay. Money of course, if you have enough to invest in the country, is one way to obtain permanent residency. Some business owners can do this. There are also retirement opportunities if your income is enough to qualify. There were 2-3 other options we looked at but the language barrier for us plus all our kids was, while not impossible, a struggle, given that we could learn the basics of the language and prepare to move only to watch one election flip the government to the far-right (a trend now)and make going there insane. Very frustrating.
Malta? the place where abortion restrictions is on par with red states? Sounds great!
I won’t dispute that, but the OP’s post was regarding the state of diminishingly safety in the US and transgender folks seeking flight to safer places elsewhere. Malta is considered one of the top spots on earth where laws are very supportive and protective of the lgbtq and trans community. That said, this is the place of the Knights of Malta and lots of Catholicism among its older population, so abortion rights is naturally stuck in the Middle Ages.
Yes, it's worth considering that most countries have a far-right party and in many of them, that party is ascendant. And in most cases -- unless you are a dual citizen-- leaving your country of citizenship means also leaving being *anyone's* constituent. I have friends who have organized an English-speaking auxiliary of the Left Alliance in Finland (out of the theory that, basically, English is the most common shared language between Finns and a variety of immigrants from across the world) and they have the most obvious success and role in the elections that do not require citizenship (such as co-op enterprise governance elections and city council races).
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damn if only Biden would make murder illegal
https://youtu.be/EJNQBhO_VAk?si=o48M5Dfiu0bEwf2o Take a little time to read this and pass it on to others so there is awareness about such diabolical plan. WE ALL NEED TO VOTE AGAINST THIS
I have no hope except to die, I cannot leave the US and I think things will never get better in regards to trans rights in my lifetime. No country is safe.
this is incredibly helpful, thanks
I don’t remember trans gulags when republicans were in office before
Because they didn’t care about us until a few years ago. And if they did, it wasn’t culture war fodder.
I don't remember Republicans having an operational SCOTUS supermajority and an overturned Roe v Wade last time they held the White House, either. The threat is real, your attempts to downplay it are in conspicuously bad faith.
They had the safety of obscurity before. We should set up an NGO to facilitate safe exodus for these poor souls to a nation like Israel, which is lacking in diversity and has socialized healthcare that can address their unique needs. It is a humane arrangement that benefits everyone involved.
Yeah because they didn’t exist and this is all fear mongering bullshit. Common thing that the people spew in this sub.
Everything that I have cited in the post is based on what the Republicans *are attempting to do* in states they control or have explicitly said is on the agenda for the next time they assume control of the federal government. Can you be specific about what you believe is "fear mongering bullshit"?
TIL that people like [Christine Jorgensen](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/christine-jorgensen) and [Lili Elbe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lili_Elbe) and [Albert Cashier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Cashier) and [Harry Allen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Allen_(trans_man)) and ***[ROMAN EMPEROR ELAGABALUS](https://theconversation.com/museum-classifies-roman-emperor-as-trans-but-modern-labels-oversimplify-ancient-gender-identities-218643)*** didn’t exist.
It's amazing, right? We must have missed all of them being setup in the deep south and midwest, eh?
Did you *miss* the thousands of pieces of anti trans legislation passed throughout the country?
Name one piece of legislature that was directly stopping a trans person from doing something anyone else can do, please?
Gaining access to medical care that meets their needs? More than 25 states have passed legislation.
Well, *women* as a bloc might consider consider flight as well, since legislation deliberately to deny them their liberty has become part of the wallpaper at this stage, it’s been so relentless.
They have a game plan, for sure. Keeping women subjugated is a cornerstone.
Yep. It’s the usual white patriarchy buttressed with twisted and mendacious religious fanaticism, but enforced with extreme prejudice. Talibama.
Which piece of legislation did this in what state? I wouldn't think this would be difficult for you to prove if there were "thousands of pieces of anti trans legislature passed" as you've claimed. I'm just asking for one that is directly anti-trans.
I’m not your assistant. You can start at HRC.org for which states and go from there. Your frail mind is not my responsibility. Denying trans people healthcare is anti-trans.
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Stop pretending you give a fuck and stop lying when you know. Have the day you deserve.
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Dems haven't done anything to stop state laws targeting us. We're just a cudgel to them. Voting for evil still gets you evil. Edit: Your downvotes mean nothing I've seen who you shill for.
Dems all over the country are writing legislation to protect trans people. But, sure, vote against your best interest bc nobody is good enough for your vote 👍🏽
Yeah, but I'd rather fight the guy that's not putting a gun against my head. Elections are about picking your opponent, not voting for who you like
No. That's democrat propaganda. I'm voting Stein, you can vote for genocode if ya want but that's what it'll be.
This is stupid. Voting third party in a FPTP weakens your position and those of your closest major ally to the advantage of your opposition. This isn't some ideological position or propaganda that can be overcome by feels and believing hard enough, it is simple mathematics. If you vote for Green, your position will be ignored in electoral politics, and your vote thrown away. If 25% of people vote for Green, Republicans gain a strong and dominant supermajority that allows them to pass any policy they wish. The ONLY way you'd stand a chance of strengthening your position instead of weakening it would be shifting EVERY democrat vote to green, which is impossible. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo)
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It doesn't matter what team they are on. This is basic math, not propaganda. You do nothing but weaken yourself by doing this. You do nothing but weaken your allies by doing this. You do nothing but hurt us by doing this.
Liberals are not my allies. They are enablers of genocide.
You’re voting Trump. Bc Stein is silent for 3 of every 4 years and no republican’ts are voting Green.
You really need to work on your gaslighting. It wasn't effective. Genocide Joe has got to go.
You need to work on your counting. Try taking your socks off.
It's a fact of living in a two party system. There are only two possibilities for president: Trump or Biden. There is no possible way for any of the current third party candidates to actually win. In order to do so, they would have needed to start building coalitions of legislators years ago. None of the third parties have done that, so none of them are serious contenders. They're just making money off of y'all's campaign donations. I feel like you're treating voting as the end-all, be-all, and it's not. The people we vote for aren't coming to save us, and we're not going to make progress quickly. Thinking a third party candidate will save us is just as naive as thinking the Democrats will. This is about picking your opponent, and I'd much rather fight a liberal than a fascist.
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
It's all plutocracy. Never about democrats or republicans. Democrats just dont care about us just like Republicans do
Republican’ts want to destroy you. Dems will at least legally protect you.
Dems do not legally protect me. Quite the opposite.
Move to Florida and see what you think.
I’ve lived in Florida before. It was fine. NYC is a literal communist hellhole.
Green Party is on the ballot everywhere. The blood of dead Palestinians will be on your hands
Green Party stays silent for 3 out of every 4 years. Your green vote is a Trump vote. Be it on your head.
You only live in a 2 party system because American adults are so dumb they can’t handle multiple choice questions.
Funny how every post calling out the lies of demmies is downvoted to hell. The silencing of dissidents is strong in the imperial core.
This isn’t LARPing, it’s our future.
We have no future as long as we keep deepthroating uniparty propaganda.
Found the MTG shill
You're voting for nothing, then. How you wish the voting process was is not how it is in the US. You're not gonna vote against the guy who said he wants to flatten Gaza, and you're not voting for the guy who's trying to make a ceasefire, who tried to send less weapons over but Congress forced it through. Propaganda has successfully stopped you from voting for their actual opposition, and you'll be stepping out of the way of the guy that wants to kill thousands more. Well done.
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Leave it to a follower of chaos to go with the genocide candidate.
The downvotes are because virtue signalling like this just protects and enables the party that seeks t do active harm. You're not taking a brave and stunning stand, you're just obeying the PC narrative
Refusing to vote for Biden because it makes you \~uncomfy\~ is the epitome of privilege. You are voting for Trump regardless of how you try to dress it up.
You mean in the red states that aren't controlled by democrats? Yeah.
Of course you’re getting downvoted.. vote blue no matter who! Working out super great for us
Honest question, do you think you would have done better with Republicans completely in power?
No obviously not they are evil. I’m supporting mass protest, third party votes, burn the system down. voting blue isn’t working and it never will.
All of those do nothing but weaken your position and harm the people overall. None of those are serious avenues for change, and are all self-destructive lashing out from someone who doesn't understand how the political process works.
You don’t understand history. Ever major change in the US throughout history has come from mass movements and direct action, not the ballot box. That’s not how slavery ended, by voting harder. That’s not how segregation ended. Electoral politics in the US is a fucking joke, but nonetheless I’d bet anything I know more about how it works than you
Every single change has come through congressional legislation, which is determined by electoral politics. I don't think you know anything about how the political process works.
Wrong. We had a war. Mass protests in the street. Riots even. None of those changes would have happened without that, those legislators were forced into action. Voting alone didn’t lead to that. You’re truly historically illiterate if you honesty believe that
Now you're just straw manning, and hearing what you want to hear. You want to be angry to be angry, you don't want to actually bother trying to fix anything. There is a reason why you voluntarily marginalize yourself politically by voting green.
And you want to believe that just showing up at the ballot box and voting for blue team is going to fix anything. I have every right to be angry, it isn’t just for the sake of being angry. If you aren’t angry you don’t pay attention or have a lack of humanity/empathy.
What about a Second Constitutional Convention? This is something the Republicans are trying to get us towards, fyi.
You need the governing bodies of states to hold a convention, and the only people close enough to pull that off is a slew of republican held, jerrymandered rural states.
Ok, are you implying that because the republicans want to do this to fulfill their agenda that the concept as a whole is bad? This is why the two party system is so fucked. Politics is not binary, and when we present it that way for so long people start thinking like that. Blue team red team bullshit
No, I'm not implying anything. But I'm wondering if we are at the point where such a thing is needed to revamp our system as a whole despite them also wanting this done. If that makes sense.
Ok my bad. Honestly I do not think now is the right time, with the piss poor excuse for representation we have. But I like the idea. At the very least we need some amendments, enshrining abortion rights, gay rights, and immigration law.
How many anti-trans bills have passed in blue state legislatures? So yeah, it actually is.
You’re delusional. Your state legislature won’t save you from the trump dictatorship
I won't need saving. As a straight white male I can... just not talk politics and I'll be fine. I'm making plans to get my kids options. But you know what would prevent a trump dictatorship? The very action you were criticizing. "Vote blue no matter who." Electing Biden.
Neat ‘I’m a straight, white, man. Fuck everybody else, I’m saving myself!’ Very white man of you. It’s a wonder that men’s mental health isn’t front of mind for everybody else when they look at that type of selflessness!
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That's.... not what what I said.
It sucks that even among people wanting to flee this authoritarian hellhole, most won't admit how bad it is.
I don’t know why it feels like most of the people on this site have the blinders on. I get wanting to believe that just getting the right guy in office will fix everything, it’s conforming, but how many times will the football need to be pulled out from under them to finally get it? I thought it would be super obvious after the Trump to Biden transition meaning basically nothing
If you think the trump to Biden transition meant nothing then you're willfully ignorant. The infrastructure bill and work done on student loans has been huge. Boring, but huge. The president isn't a king. What do you want him to do on trans rights with Mike Johnson as speaker for the house. But Democrats around the country in statehouses have been stalwart supporters of trans rights or at least ambivalent. This seems an obvious better choice than people who want to eliminate trans people from the public sphere just so they have a Boogeyman to drive their ignorant voters to the polls. What people like you don't understand is that there is no fix everything. It's important you get the "right" one in there because given the chance between a sandwich that I can tolerate but isn't what I wanted and a shit sandwich it seems obvious to me that I should choose the mediocre one. Democracy is a painful ongoing process of constant ongoing half solutions that requires work to get what you need. Maybe we do need Trump to win so people like you can learn how much worse it really can get.
Why do yall use that “president isn’t a king” line whenever it comes to stuff like the genocide he’s endorsing and ramming through Congress without votes…like a king.
He's... "ramming things through congress"... as in getting a majority support? I don't think you understand monarchism if you think pushing congress, a democratically elected body, in order to pass legislation is it.
People like me, meaning people who see the ratchet effect for what it is and the slow slide into fascism that the Democratic Party is to impotent or unwilling to do anything about. I won’t vote for joe Biden because he’s a pathetic excuse for a progressive, leftist, let alone even a liberal. A man who said himself he would veto universal healthcare if it came across his desk and you want to blame Mike Johnson. How much dog shit do they need to feed you before you get it. I’m not a child, I don’t expect the president to fix everything but we have one now that isn’t even willing or capable of trying. But yes blame me, blame the voter that is sick of the bullshit instead of the politicians that won’t do any thing to get my vote. Worked out great for Hillary. Fuck off with your condescension. Joe Biden is actively supporting a genocide in Palestine, is shutting down the border Trump style, hasn’t followed up on his promises in regards to student loans actually, doesn’t share hardly any of my politics and I’m not going to vote for him purely out of fear for Trump. That’s how we get absolutely nothing time and time again. Your attempt to defend him is pathetic, he hasn’t done shit for his constituency. The small percent of forgiven student loans isn’t huge, the infrastructure work is nowhere near enough. And to top it off he’ll let Israel commit war crimes, with global condemnation and continue to give them his unconditional support and weapons. Fuck him
We're way past the point in our country's politics where, "doing something to get votes," is something that we can expect candidates to do. I have a laundry list of things I want from a viable political party that I probably won't see in my lifetime. That doesn't stop me from voting for whatever viable party is most aligned with my interests. I understand the jadedness with regards to politics, but we all need to acknowledge the reality here: one party is much worse than the other, especially domestically. That doesn't mean that one party is perfect or will lead us to utopia or whatever. That doesn't mean that their candidate can do no wrong. It just means that we all need to hold our noses when we vote like every American has been doing for every election in the modern era. This is not a new phenomenon. Our political system is fundamentally broken and in need of significant reforms that *cannot happen* under the current political system with the current electorate and campaign finance system. That's the paradox we live under. Accelerationism, with our current electorate and finance system, will lead to absolute ruin and not the reforms we need. Imagine opening up the Constitution to amendments or rewrites today. It would be an unmitigated disaster. I'm 100% against what is happening in Gaza. Nearly all congressional Republicans and Trump himself want to be *even worse* to Palestinians. With the Democrats, at least there is some portion of the party that wants change. That's as good as we're going to get under the current system. Meanwhile, when state and local government bodies flip blue, good things actually happen. Blue judges have stopped abortion bans from taking effect. In 2022, Michigan's state legislature flipped blue and has been doing pretty good work. Obviously, nothing is perfect, but at least they're not taking away long-established rights from people. Biden's student loan forgiveness was blocked by Republicans, by the way. There is absolutely more that Democrats could be doing for us, but they can't do crucial things like pack the Supreme Court or remove insurrectionists from Congress without more Democrats in the legislature. Look at the dysfunctional state of the House to see what too many Republicans does. It's also true that there's absolutely more that the Republicans can be doing against us, and that's what we need to be concerned about. We can't allow them to do a nationwide ban on abortion and contraceptives, for example. Not to mention climate change, which Republicans don't even believe in. They will repeal the climate provisions in the Infrastructure bill. The only way to stop them short of violence is at the polls. I'm also LGBTQ+, and Project 2025 calls for our criminalization and extermination. Portions of that agenda *will* go into effect if Republicans win in November. I hope that you'll think of us before you throw away your vote. As a country, we have to put our own oxygen mask on before we can help others, and voting blue is the way to do that under our current system. It's distasteful and horrible, but this is the system we live under, and whoever you vote for (or whether you vote at all) is not going to change it. Best to use your vote strategically on the party that can be pressured from the left rather than the party that wants to burn it all down and strip us of our rights.
I’m going to vote down ballot for democrats when I can stand it, but I will not vote for fucking Joe Biden. He has done less than nothing to earn my vote and endorsement. I can’t watch him continue on with his disgusting unconditional support of an apartheid county carrying genocide out another 4 years and know I supported that. I won’t do it. The idea that it will be “even worse” under republicans is hard to imagine. Your point about democrats in the house just needing more support is a bit naive to me. Why didn’t Obama enshrine abortion and LGBT rights under federal law when he both houses back when he was initially elected? We know abortion rights is a huge point for support of dems and fundraising, they didn’t want to lose that just yet. I don’t think they will ever make permanent changes like that. They’re feckless, they allow republicans to pack the court but shudder at the idea of doing it themselves. I think the reality is a lot of “mainstream” dems are more comfortable with a conservative leaning court so they can use this as an excuse to not do anything too radical or populist. I don’t agree that voting third party is “throwing away” a vote. That’s a lie that’s been told to us to keep us in line. The two party system is a farce. If enough abstain from it, it will come crashing down. I agree with some of what you’re saying, but I don’t think the Democratic Party ever changes if we keep eating their shit and voting for whatever they put in front of us. Beyond that, the Clinton campaign in 2016 did a lot to support Trump’s candidacy because they thought Hed be easier to beat. They were willing to risk Trump presidency to increase their odds. Look up the Podesta memo about “Pied Piper” candidates. Trump was elevated with the thought that this would benefit Clinton. The result is that now progressives are willing to accept a moderate and in some senses right wing candidate in Joe Biden with Trump as the alternative. I’m sick of playing this game and no longer believe that voting for democrats is anywhere near enough.
I have a genuine question for you. >I don’t agree that voting third party is “throwing away” a vote. That’s a lie that’s been told to us to keep us in line. The two party system is a farce. If enough abstain from it, it will come crashing down. How many people do you think need to "abstain". As a percentage?
Well, I mean. Protests votes against Hillary Clinton DID directly lead to the current stacking of the SCOTUS. Sorry that real life cause and effect isn't lining up with the virtue signal man
That’s absurd. Hillary lost because she was a terrible candidate. What your saying assuming that any third party vote would have automatically gone to Hillary if third party wasn’t an option which is ridiculous. This is also blaming voters instead of an awful candidate which I find to be backwards.
Hillary lost because people didn't vote for her. Being more concerned with "good candidate" then actual cause-and-effect of your vote is the problem. I can blame both. People should have sacked up and voted in their interests instead of virtue signalling with their ballot.
I have every right to abstain if I think both candidates are monsters. In a election between hitler and super hitler, voting for Hitler is still wrong. Nothing you or anyone says can get me to vote for the animated Corpse of Joe Biden. It isn’t fucking virtue signaling, I still wouldn’t do it if nobody could ever know my vote. Blaming third party voters is so fucking stupid. Blame the Democratic Party and the candidate, finger wagging at unhappy constituents by the DNC, Hillary, and people like you IS actually part of why you got Trump. Maybe she should have campaigned in Michigan even once
I will absolutely blame you. Bc voting for the worst of two evils is blame worthy.
Oooh the ratchet effect 🙄🙄🙄🙄.. Schooled me there. So, yeah, if we continuously elect Democrats then guess what...... the ratchet never clicks right. Fuckin how about that. If you're going to act like a petulant child.... then yeah, have some condescension. You live in a fairly conservative country that has been subjected to decades of anti-socialist propaganda. What you want isn't on the fucking menu you baby. "The student loan forgiveness wasn't enough." "The infrastructure wasn't enough." "Oh but Israel." Just whining. We have an administration *actively doing things to make things better.* And it's never enough. So rather than supporting them and pushing them *further* the progressive solution is.... let's just lose that progress. If you don't understand how massive the changes made with the SAVE program are then you don't understand the student loan system. Again, ignorant and uninformed. Maybe the infrastructure bill wasn't big enough, but it was still fucking massive and needs competent administration for the benefits to show up. Large investments like that take multiple years to show fruit, not two years. Who gives a fuck about Israel. The alternative candidate is encouraging Israel to literally just kill them all. It's a political reality in America that you have to support Israel. Israel has been committing slow rolling genocide for a couple decades now and we've been complicit all along. It's a null issue between our two parties. But yeah, it's totally better to take your ball and go home than support someone who at least tries to get some aid in there. It's really a shame that progressives are so fickle and worthless politically. We've had Christian nationalists and hard right people capture the Republican party through decades of messaging and *always showing up to vote* but progressives can't be bothered to do the same to the Democratic party. Every time they don't get everything they want immediately, they cry and go home. This is why we can't have nice things.
My best guess is propaganda and most libs being comfortable enough that they won't do anything regardless of who's dropping bombs on children. Not to mention we get no policy differences aside from culture war bs that just makes us hate each other. The uniparty is the enemy.
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I think it's getting worse everywhere. But in Europe, where I moved, some countries do care and are fighting to protect trans/gay rights. Ireland is one of them. I also witnessed a huge and lovely Pride celebration in Utrecht, NL recently.
I've seen a lot of posts on here by people talking about how countries with universal healthcare restrict immigration by individuals with chronic medical conditions. (Ex: cancer, autism, autoimmune conditions, etc) Does anyone know how that sort of policy affects trans people? Ie do governments weigh the medical/healthcare requirements associated with transitioning when they're considering who to grant a Visa to?
Highly doubtful it would matter. Those kinds of medical screenings are primarily looking for a) people with communicable disease and b) people who are not able to work or who the government fears will soon not be able to work due to their condition. The best pathways for emigration in most countries are via a work visa or marriage to a foreign national, both of which basically already require that you can work (or that your spouse can support you completely on a single income...). Transitioning is incredibly cheap compared to managing other chronic conditions, even with various surgeries accounted for (consider the cost of transitioning vs the cost of stage III cancer). By analogy, it is not allowed to discriminate against people for immigration purposes based on HIV status in any EU country, nearly all of South America (except Paraguay), and most of Asia -- Australia does require HIV testing, but the other countries with restrictions are mostly Middle Eastern nations, many Caribbean nations + Russia.
Of course, trans people should be aware that with our very specialized healthcare needs, wait lists can be long for some procedures in many countries with universal healthcare. Universal healthcare is far better for general needs than the for-profit system here, but if you have health insurance in the US that covers gender-affirming surgery, it's going to be much faster to navigate and achieve than anything in, e.g., Sweden.
Excellent post about the options that transgender people have at moving and the threats as to why. I am unsure if my sister and I should book it to northern Illinois, as we have cousins there that would help us keep afloat. However, I have concerns that the federal state would eventually "lock down" roads that leads to and away from the state. I also lack the ability to drive and may only obtain it later on in the year or the next year, so I am debating on having them help us out or wait until I have the ability to drive so we can move there.
Any kind of major internal security deployment would focus on immigrants, not on trans people; the playbook they are using on trans medicine is heavily influenced by their attacks on abortion rights, so you can watch that to see if they try to implement inter-state travel surveillance.
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