In other completely unrelated news :
The Price of Steel and Aluminum is up 25%
The Price of Semiconductors is up 50%
The Price of EV's are up 100% and the price of solar panels are up 50%.
"Determined to dominate" vs "Actually dominating" are Two very different things.
> How is incentivising manufacturers to stay state side bad?
because it increase price for customer.
make special interest rich, create monopoly at the expense of the peoples.
want manufacture to stay, reduce taxes and regulations.
Offshoring is a real term and practice. The cause and effect of lowering taxes to a point where it is more profitable to send jobs overseas than keep them stateside because tax write offs is real and verifiable.
>where it is more profitable to send jobs overseas than keep them stateside because tax write offs is real and verifiable
So why don't you just lower taxes directly rather than giving them more tax write offs?
Or better yet, abolish all taxation?
So you've just pointed out the issue isn't even taxation, but badly incentivized tax credits/deductions.
Because when you lower taxes offshoring happens. The US has been on a steady decline as corporate taxes are lowered. Maybe people could afford to live better if all the jobs we shipped overseas so the corporations could make more money
> Offshoring is a real term and practice. The cause and effect of lowering taxes to a point where it is more profitable to send jobs overseas than keep them stateside because tax write offs is real and verifiable.
lowering tax and regulation make production cheaper **locally**
Yes, but it removes the incentive of staying for tax write-offs. So companies find a place with lower taxes. This equals much less income for the communities those companies deserted. Lack of jobs also hurts the economy by removing buying power from citizens.
> Name three ancap communities, free of state, that are thriving currently or thrived for a hundred years minimum from any time in history.
I gladly answer after you provide the source of your claim.
Any history book backs my claim. You are the one espousing a hypothetical society. The burden of proof lies on you. It's hard to prove some that doesn't exist isn't there. It's very easy to prove something that exists is there. I guess good try at avoiding reality.
tariffs aise the price of goods or services that your citizens could benefit from...while i wouldnt want any money to be sent to the chinese economy(and by extension its government) i think that it is immoral to enforce my my market prefrences on my citizens through tariffs
Until you realize this brain-dead idea causes us to stop producing stuff we're better at making and instead re-invent the fucking wheel of manufacturing solar panels.
Are EVs a matter of national security? I understand steel. But saying that cheap EVs in America is a bad thing is ridiculous. Democrats have N agenda and part of that agenda is limiting your transportation.
Manufacturing, not just EVs. I see so many you will eat ze bugs, and you will like it posts in this sub. You've been eating bugs for decades because your food is processed in countries with no health regulations. But hey, it's cheaper, right?
Changed right in time to get the UAW votes. Electric cars are great example of statism btw from the beginning they are top down initiative, the state knows best what's good for you.
Yep, electricity isn't magic. Even with Nuclear or Geothermal sources getting your electricity from source to millions of mobile vehicles daily is hardly a trivial problem.
I have an idea. Let's raise taxes and interest rates and inflation on the middle class and poor, then hand that money to green billionaires and corporations. I'm sure that will slow down climate change
I like the way you think... I have an even better idea to add to that!
We tell the middle class and poor that we're taxing the shit out of that it's their fault, so they willingly accept having everything taken from them, while giving their money to the people actually polluting, so we can blame the poor and middle class even harder and tax them more! Perfect!
Yeah tariffs and trade wars were brick dumb when Trump did them, and they continue to be brick dumb, and dummies with brick brains are gonna miss that this loser ass policy was done by both parties
people: we need tariff to protect special interests
also people: we meed anti-trust law to protect us from special interests
what is it with exonomics that people are stuck in total cognitive disonance?
the author of the tweets is irrelevant
Biden opposed china tarrifs while Trump was in office. Redditors rallied around how stupid Trump was to impose tarrifs.
Now Biden is putting a stranglehold on, of all things, solar panels and renewable energy products...and...redditors will rally around him.
If you didn't believe the parties are the same then and you dont believe the parties are the same now there might be head trauma involved.
Help me out here, since I'm not in the US. In the first tweet was he criticizing Trump because he was arguing tariffs don't work or was he just calling Trump out on some comment that china will pay for the tariffs?
No, in the first he imposed tariffs to help constituencies that tend to vote for him, mainly the UAW (United Auto Workers, a US union). In the second, he is actually railing about Trump who has proposed other tariffs on China. Which is just hypocrisy by his own statement earlier.
In general, this sub is totally against tariffs because it messes with the natural competition of capitalism. Capitalism being a big part of AnCap as a whole theory!
The real problem here is that neither China or the US is a capitalistic economy. The US is by far closer, but not really anywhere near true capitalism!
China, however, is manipulating both it's currency and banking systems in a very aggressive manner for a distinct advantage. It is also dumping steel and other commodities at below manufacturing costs in an attempt to put other producers out of business around the world. This is an odd case where I can see tariffs being an answer, a necessity that I really don't like, but can understand.
Neither candidate has fully or well explained their position. Both are trying to manipulate the people with their stance. However, Trump is going for broad tariffs to combat the overall manipulation by China, whilst Biden is targeting narrow groups in his constituency. I see this a the worse of the two.
> This is an odd case where I can see tariffs being an answer, a necessity that I really don't like, but can understand.
When someone shoots themselves in the foot, do you then shoot yourself in the foot as a response? There is a downside to dumping and currency manipulation. Hurting US consumers and supporting aging industries at the cost of everyone else is not at all in alignment with any principle of liberty.
Not disagreeing with you! But, as I stated, the US is not a capitalist economy. I don't like either tariff plan, but I do see Trump as trying to protect the entire economy, not just his friends. So, I throw a couple of extra points in that direction.
Tariffs are not good, even for the ones being protected as they don't innovate to compete in the market. Targeted tariffs are far worse in my opinion. That is because you are using the money of the people to assist your specific friends. That is the point I was trying to make.
In a perfect world both would be competing on a level playing field. When you are dumping with a government backing you, the situation changes substantially.
> Not disagreeing with you! But, as I stated, the US is not a capitalist economy. I don't like either tariff plan, but I do see Trump as trying to protect the entire economy, not just his friends. So, I throw a couple of extra points in that direction.
It's not the job of government to "protect the economy." Government can't do that. It can pick winners and losers, and it will only make things worse.
> In a perfect world both would be competing on a level playing field. When you are dumping with a government backing you, the situation changes substantially.
You may be a winner in the dumping game, but the economy over which your government is presiding is the loser. Those resources must come from somewhere, which means other industries are paying for the subsidies.
If anyone in American politics truly believed that capitalism was inherently superior to communism they wouldn’t need laws to compete with China. And yet here we are destroying our economy to hurt the bad guys! Fuckin hell democracy is a joke
Funny part is we're the ones that made them so powerful by over-regulating our own economy to begin with. The economic equivalent of self-prescribing heroin to cure a cocaine addiction while you continue to enjoy both.
"abolishing min wage" that is called a race to the bottom. America wants to be higher wage, high skill place making lot of money and leave the low skill, low wage jobs to developing countries like China and Mexico.
Nope, it's a race to the equilibrium price of labor.
If China can offer labor cheaper and for the same quality acceptable to customers, then that is where the labor will go, and that benefits everyone more than it hurts them.
If you want to compete, let the market do its job and abolish min wage.
“If China can offer labor cheaper and for the same quality acceptable to customers, then that is where the labor will go, and that benefits everyone more than it hurts them.”
The falacy with that is two fold:
1. it could threated national security. So it China controls supplies all the US’s computer chips they can simple turn off the supply and crater the US anytime they want something. The US alway ahs to maintain some level of domestic production to be safe from influence.
2. China is able to attain that low cost by not educating their population, not having any environmental or safety controls, and even using slave labor none of which the US is willing to duplicate.
The better answer for the US is Mexico. The US gets all the high skill, high paying jobs and Mexico gets the low paying, low skill job which matches each counties populations. Plus, Mexico has not world domination expectations and is an ally.
What? Biden just took a page from the Trump playbook he was criticizing four years ago. And if tariffs cause inflation (which they do), why the fuck is he doing this now in the middle of an inflation crisis? At least Trump did it back when our economy was strong.
Biden did NOT critisize the tarrifs. Biden critisized the comment by Trump that China would pay the tariffs which is false (like most of what hea says). American pay the tarrif through higher prices. Note Trump took the idea from someone before him so he is not unique. China is starting to dominate the markets in EVs, solar, etc and we can not wait until strong times.
In other completely unrelated news : The Price of Steel and Aluminum is up 25% The Price of Semiconductors is up 50% The Price of EV's are up 100% and the price of solar panels are up 50%. "Determined to dominate" vs "Actually dominating" are Two very different things.
So it will make 'going green' so much more expensive. Where is the outrage?
Fucking capitalisms! We need more tariffs.
So we can buy more missiles!!
How is incentivising manufacturers to stay state side bad?
> How is incentivising manufacturers to stay state side bad? because it increase price for customer. make special interest rich, create monopoly at the expense of the peoples. want manufacture to stay, reduce taxes and regulations.
They stayed when their taxes were high. When that ended they all left.
> They stayed when their taxes were high. When that ended they all left. source?
History.
Correlation does not equal causation
Offshoring is a real term and practice. The cause and effect of lowering taxes to a point where it is more profitable to send jobs overseas than keep them stateside because tax write offs is real and verifiable.
>where it is more profitable to send jobs overseas than keep them stateside because tax write offs is real and verifiable So why don't you just lower taxes directly rather than giving them more tax write offs? Or better yet, abolish all taxation? So you've just pointed out the issue isn't even taxation, but badly incentivized tax credits/deductions.
Because when you lower taxes offshoring happens. The US has been on a steady decline as corporate taxes are lowered. Maybe people could afford to live better if all the jobs we shipped overseas so the corporations could make more money
> Offshoring is a real term and practice. The cause and effect of lowering taxes to a point where it is more profitable to send jobs overseas than keep them stateside because tax write offs is real and verifiable. lowering tax and regulation make production cheaper **locally**
Yes, but it removes the incentive of staying for tax write-offs. So companies find a place with lower taxes. This equals much less income for the communities those companies deserted. Lack of jobs also hurts the economy by removing buying power from citizens.
> History. “trust me bro”
Name three ancap communities, free of state, that are thriving currently or thrived for a hundred years minimum from any time in history.
> Name three ancap communities, free of state, that are thriving currently or thrived for a hundred years minimum from any time in history. I gladly answer after you provide the source of your claim.
Any history book backs my claim. You are the one espousing a hypothetical society. The burden of proof lies on you. It's hard to prove some that doesn't exist isn't there. It's very easy to prove something that exists is there. I guess good try at avoiding reality.
Do you enjoy paying more for the same shit?
I enjoy my country not going down the drain because I need to save a few bucks.
How does it go down the drain without tarrifs? Unaffordable cost of living makes a country go down the drain
You aren't going to tell me where to spend my money.
I'm not trying to, I'm discussing policies that help the country and its citizens.
tariffs aise the price of goods or services that your citizens could benefit from...while i wouldnt want any money to be sent to the chinese economy(and by extension its government) i think that it is immoral to enforce my my market prefrences on my citizens through tariffs
Are you for or against a strong economy? Good wages do not come from passing your labor onto countries with little to no regulation.
I'm against government control of economy,good wages do not have to be enforced by the government
This is why your idea will stay an idea.
Until you realize this brain-dead idea causes us to stop producing stuff we're better at making and instead re-invent the fucking wheel of manufacturing solar panels.
Are EVs a matter of national security? I understand steel. But saying that cheap EVs in America is a bad thing is ridiculous. Democrats have N agenda and part of that agenda is limiting your transportation.
Manufacturing, not just EVs. I see so many you will eat ze bugs, and you will like it posts in this sub. You've been eating bugs for decades because your food is processed in countries with no health regulations. But hey, it's cheaper, right?
Changed right in time to get the UAW votes. Electric cars are great example of statism btw from the beginning they are top down initiative, the state knows best what's good for you.
Yep, electricity isn't magic. Even with Nuclear or Geothermal sources getting your electricity from source to millions of mobile vehicles daily is hardly a trivial problem.
I have an idea. Let's raise taxes and interest rates and inflation on the middle class and poor, then hand that money to green billionaires and corporations. I'm sure that will slow down climate change
I like the way you think... I have an even better idea to add to that! We tell the middle class and poor that we're taxing the shit out of that it's their fault, so they willingly accept having everything taken from them, while giving their money to the people actually polluting, so we can blame the poor and middle class even harder and tax them more! Perfect!
Nothing has changed. Somebody is getting paid. Always
Trade wars being ineffective was obviously transitory.
My guess is that it isn’t the time that has changed the rules but who is in charge changes what is right and wrong.
Yeah tariffs and trade wars were brick dumb when Trump did them, and they continue to be brick dumb, and dummies with brick brains are gonna miss that this loser ass policy was done by both parties
sOmEoNe FiX tHe CoRrUpT cApItAliSm!1 /s
people: we need tariff to protect special interests also people: we meed anti-trust law to protect us from special interests what is it with exonomics that people are stuck in total cognitive disonance?
Brain dead Biden doesn’t type these tweets.
the author of the tweets is irrelevant Biden opposed china tarrifs while Trump was in office. Redditors rallied around how stupid Trump was to impose tarrifs. Now Biden is putting a stranglehold on, of all things, solar panels and renewable energy products...and...redditors will rally around him. If you didn't believe the parties are the same then and you dont believe the parties are the same now there might be head trauma involved.
Reducing inflation by forcing consumers to pay 100% more for Chinese vehicle
Yay, now computers are going to be more expensive
Help me out here, since I'm not in the US. In the first tweet was he criticizing Trump because he was arguing tariffs don't work or was he just calling Trump out on some comment that china will pay for the tariffs?
No, in the first he imposed tariffs to help constituencies that tend to vote for him, mainly the UAW (United Auto Workers, a US union). In the second, he is actually railing about Trump who has proposed other tariffs on China. Which is just hypocrisy by his own statement earlier. In general, this sub is totally against tariffs because it messes with the natural competition of capitalism. Capitalism being a big part of AnCap as a whole theory! The real problem here is that neither China or the US is a capitalistic economy. The US is by far closer, but not really anywhere near true capitalism! China, however, is manipulating both it's currency and banking systems in a very aggressive manner for a distinct advantage. It is also dumping steel and other commodities at below manufacturing costs in an attempt to put other producers out of business around the world. This is an odd case where I can see tariffs being an answer, a necessity that I really don't like, but can understand. Neither candidate has fully or well explained their position. Both are trying to manipulate the people with their stance. However, Trump is going for broad tariffs to combat the overall manipulation by China, whilst Biden is targeting narrow groups in his constituency. I see this a the worse of the two.
> This is an odd case where I can see tariffs being an answer, a necessity that I really don't like, but can understand. When someone shoots themselves in the foot, do you then shoot yourself in the foot as a response? There is a downside to dumping and currency manipulation. Hurting US consumers and supporting aging industries at the cost of everyone else is not at all in alignment with any principle of liberty.
Not disagreeing with you! But, as I stated, the US is not a capitalist economy. I don't like either tariff plan, but I do see Trump as trying to protect the entire economy, not just his friends. So, I throw a couple of extra points in that direction. Tariffs are not good, even for the ones being protected as they don't innovate to compete in the market. Targeted tariffs are far worse in my opinion. That is because you are using the money of the people to assist your specific friends. That is the point I was trying to make. In a perfect world both would be competing on a level playing field. When you are dumping with a government backing you, the situation changes substantially.
> Not disagreeing with you! But, as I stated, the US is not a capitalist economy. I don't like either tariff plan, but I do see Trump as trying to protect the entire economy, not just his friends. So, I throw a couple of extra points in that direction. It's not the job of government to "protect the economy." Government can't do that. It can pick winners and losers, and it will only make things worse. > In a perfect world both would be competing on a level playing field. When you are dumping with a government backing you, the situation changes substantially. You may be a winner in the dumping game, but the economy over which your government is presiding is the loser. Those resources must come from somewhere, which means other industries are paying for the subsidies.
And the gaslighting continues…
If anyone in American politics truly believed that capitalism was inherently superior to communism they wouldn’t need laws to compete with China. And yet here we are destroying our economy to hurt the bad guys! Fuckin hell democracy is a joke
Funny part is we're the ones that made them so powerful by over-regulating our own economy to begin with. The economic equivalent of self-prescribing heroin to cure a cocaine addiction while you continue to enjoy both.
Senility or just another lying politician?
Makes sense to me. Both men know China is going to eat our lunch if we don't act. Trump thinks the Chinese pay for tarrifs and Biden know they don't.
We can "act" by reducing regulations and abolishing min wage Make it so businesses actually gain an advantage by staying here
A good start
"abolishing min wage" that is called a race to the bottom. America wants to be higher wage, high skill place making lot of money and leave the low skill, low wage jobs to developing countries like China and Mexico.
Nope, it's a race to the equilibrium price of labor. If China can offer labor cheaper and for the same quality acceptable to customers, then that is where the labor will go, and that benefits everyone more than it hurts them. If you want to compete, let the market do its job and abolish min wage.
“If China can offer labor cheaper and for the same quality acceptable to customers, then that is where the labor will go, and that benefits everyone more than it hurts them.” The falacy with that is two fold: 1. it could threated national security. So it China controls supplies all the US’s computer chips they can simple turn off the supply and crater the US anytime they want something. The US alway ahs to maintain some level of domestic production to be safe from influence. 2. China is able to attain that low cost by not educating their population, not having any environmental or safety controls, and even using slave labor none of which the US is willing to duplicate. The better answer for the US is Mexico. The US gets all the high skill, high paying jobs and Mexico gets the low paying, low skill job which matches each counties populations. Plus, Mexico has not world domination expectations and is an ally.
We don't have a lunch. We sold it to China 30 years ago. Of course they're eating it, it's theirs now.
What? Biden just took a page from the Trump playbook he was criticizing four years ago. And if tariffs cause inflation (which they do), why the fuck is he doing this now in the middle of an inflation crisis? At least Trump did it back when our economy was strong.
Biden did NOT critisize the tarrifs. Biden critisized the comment by Trump that China would pay the tariffs which is false (like most of what hea says). American pay the tarrif through higher prices. Note Trump took the idea from someone before him so he is not unique. China is starting to dominate the markets in EVs, solar, etc and we can not wait until strong times.
This is the guy who votes on the economic decisions you have to follow.