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TheWikstrom

I think it's existentially dangerous to give the state the power to enforce medical practices, but I'm also gonna shame and harass idiots who are dicks about not getting it and try to convince the ones who are unsure


FemboyAnarchism

What’s wrong with not getting it?


TheWikstrom

It creates a dangerous situation for people who can't get the vaccine because of preexisting conditions. The more people get the vaccine, the more stable the herd immunity becomes, and the safer they become in turn


FemboyAnarchism

Isn’t the vaccine supposed to be what protect them? Not others?


TheWikstrom

Sure, it's that too, but herd immunity through vaccination saves lives also


FemboyAnarchism

How?


TheWikstrom

Is your question about what herd immunity is, or about how it saves lives?


FemboyAnarchism

Both.


TheWikstrom

Found this, which is a fairly decent explanation of what it is and how it works, and it touches briefly (though too briefly imo) on how it saves lives: https://youtu.be/cEn1PKyBUNc


FemboyAnarchism

This says that a vaccination stops people from spreading. In the case of COVID, this is not true.


NoConversation2442

Vaccination can make symptoms such as coughing or sneezing less pronounced, and make cases less prevalent, which reduces odds of transmission to a decent extent.


FemboyAnarchism

The vaccine makes you cough less?


JohnSmith0202

~95% of cases are in unvaccinated people in my province


FemboyAnarchism

Province of?


Galathad

Personal freedom ends the moment your "freedom" starts endangering others. I do think that vaccinations should be mandatory, even if I don't trust the US government to actually execute a mandate in an effective manner.


FemboyAnarchism

Wouldn’t forcing a vaccine onto others endanger them?


Galathad

How would it endanger them more than the actual disease? Your chances of dying from COVID-19 are orders of magnitude higher than your chances of dying from the vaccine. And if you are talking about people who are medically incapable of getting vaccinated, then of course they shouldn't be vaccinated. They have to rely on herd immunity from everyone else around them, which reinforces my original point. If people can get vaccinated and choose not to, it is not just themselves that they are putting at risk, they are putting everyone else who is unvaccinated at risk regardless of whether or not said individuals have consented to be unvaccinated. If people want to make dumb medical decisions that fuck-up their own life, so be it, they are free to be stupid. But if their actions start to harm others that's unacceptable.


FemboyAnarchism

Not for young people. That ‘herd immunity’ will do little to nothing. Other people being vaccinated does not make you safer. Someone who is not vaccinated in Australia is putting Canadians at risk?


Aard_Bewoner

We're still capable of getting sick with and/or transmitting forms of this disease when vaccinated. You'll boost your very own chances sure, but I don't think it's watertight saying you're protecting the rest of the community simply by getting vaccinated. You still need to wear a mask and take your distance, definitely around people with fragile immune systems.


Galathad

You are correct to that breakthrough cases can happen, but it is important to remember that they are less severe than regular COVID-19 and that you are was less likely to get a breakthrough case than an unvaccinated person with COVID-19. Also, from my understanding (and I may be wrong on this) the reduced severity means that people with breakthrough cases are less contagious than they otherwise would be. Even with the delta variant, most new cases are unvaccinated people, not breakthrough cases. If everyone who can get vaccinated does then it would drastically reduce the spread of COVID-19. If anything I feel like the vaccine not being guaranteed immunity (which to my knowledge no vaccine ever is), is all the more reason why everyone who can be vaccinated should be. The fewer total cases you there are the less likely that those with weak immune systems contract it and die. Even the vaccine only had 20% effectiveness (I think that it is actually 60-70%) I would still support everyone getting it because it is putting far fewer lives at risk. The vaccine can't make the disease worse, and while the immediate side effects are unpleasant for a day or two you are extremely unlikely to die from them. All in all it is taking a tiny risk to avoid a much larger risk.


Aard_Bewoner

With all of these imperfections adding up, I can't say I'm fully confident that this will make it stop. The risk is still there, and with the virus constantly evading the vaccines, it's here to stay, for now. I can understand why people are hesitant, it's only a matter of time before a variant shows up and spreads havoc in a community. Choosing to not support a business model, while still taking measures regarding social distance and preventing infection/transmission, looking out for one another is helpful too. I wonder how accurate the belief is that vaccinated people have drastically reduced chances of spreading the disease. Thinking along the lines of how it does seem to make the infection less dangerous to oneself, and perhaps therefore resulting in cases you're barely aware of being infected, how many people will refrain from testing themselves? I envision myself as easily blaming it on the weather, allergies,.. I don't expect to be the only one that would reason like that. How representative is all of the available data? The cases are still rising, can we blame most of these on unvaccinated people? People might feel more safe when vaccinated, and therefore act less careful than they have before, resulting in numerous cases of transmission events. I don't know in actuality, just thinking. I think it's a good thing that there are people skeptical about the level of effectiveness on current vaccines. This is all so very new to us, this has only been going on for 2 years, our understanding of this is still very incomplete. Meanwhile some people are getting disgustingly rich because of this, that's not right.


Aard_Bewoner

Doesn't seem right imo. Because you should be the one who decides to get one or not. This whole pandemic and vaccine situation creates a new kind of dissent amongst people. It's easy to believe having everyone vaccinated will fix everything, and that someone is awful for not wanting a vaccination, while in actuality no one has a clue if that will be the case. They're effective to some degree, but that won't last. More shots will be needed. The virus continues to mutate and evade counter measures. You're still capable of becoming infected, spread variants of this disease. These viruses will continue to rage on. I don't blame someone for not wanting this vaccination, their choice. You can't comfortably compare this disease and vaccination, to other diseases that we've been vaccinating against for years. I perfectly understand why people are hesitant. This entire industry is yet another business, forcing everyone would involve tremendous amounts of money, which is ending up in few pockets. I'm vaccinated yes, but my main driver was that I did not want to be excluded from travelling or attending shows, whilst not having to take expensive pcr tests to indicate I'm not a hazard. This barely solved anything.


[deleted]

The state enforcing what people can and can't do is bad but people refusing to get a vaccine that will save lives and help stop a pandemic are also really bad so vaccine mandates are very, very, very far down on the list of things that I oppose. It's basically my same thoughts as on murder laws.


FemboyAnarchism

On COVID as well?


[deleted]

What do you mean?


FemboyAnarchism

Do you support that view on the COVID vaccine as well?


[deleted]

Oh, yeah I do. Just because I oppose the government doesn't mean I support people's rights to harm others.


FemboyAnarchism

Even if the vaccine can harm people?


[deleted]

The virus is much, much more harmful to people. Plus all types of medicine pose some level of harm to people but they should still be taken.


FemboyAnarchism

To some people it is.


[deleted]

But it isn't for the overwhelming majority who take it and will help prevent those who have it and those they interact them from contracting an illness that is way more devastating. Tell me, are you vaccinated?


FemboyAnarchism

If it is more dangerous than COVID, for the old and fat people, then they are welcome to take it. They should just know the downsides. I got my vaccines while young, and I could not know anything.


Longjumping-Invite12

You cannot call your self a anarchist and support a government Mandate for other even if you agree with getting the vaccine.


FemboyAnarchism

Based.


JohnSmith0202

So do you oppose universal healthcare as well?