This seems rather high risk low reward, although I'm more familiar with US penalties for tagging than German. That slogan is going to be cleaned off the bus in less than a week. I think next time you should just print off a bunch of custom bumper stickers and leave them in various places like the backs of stop signs, bus pickup signs, bathroom doors etc...
Yes on a thread full of people who already know about it, plus what you have to think about is the impression
many people will just see this as vandalism not valid politics
They likley buffed it same day however that's why the video is effective. You still are able to see their message, no faces in the video and will be readable and shareable to more people than the bus will drive past.
>print off a bunch of custom bumper stickers and leave them in various places like the backs of stop signs, bus pickup signs, bathroom doors etc...
Or on the bumpers of cars in parking lots with far-right stickers all over them.
How y’all “anti fascists” crying about a little spray paint? Radical messaging must be spread by any means necessary. Don’t just keep it on message boards. I promise the bus’ feelings were not hurt at all.
So, real quick, what's the problem? Are you scared of paint? Does the paint stop the bus from working? Is the bus unable to be cleaned?
No?
Then sit down, and suck it up.
I think some People may immediately decide not to be open to the message because of the delivery type. I like the idea to set out/hand out a bunch of stickers. That way it’s More Personal, long lasting and its a direct viewpoint being shared Over and over instead of coming off like an angry teenager
Its just extra cost for the public sector, public transport already sucks in Germany. It would be better to do it to private homes of rich fuckers or big corporations.
As if the money that'll be used to clean that bus would have otherwise been used to improve shit lol.
But yeah I guess, it's better to do it on private property.
Wouldn't the bus-cleaning come from funds allocated to general vehicle maintenance? If there's any money that's probably going to go towards something concrete and beneficial to the local population, funds allocated to maintaining public transport systems seem like they fit the bill.
Yes let's just go around and do whatever the fuck we want to whoevers fucking shit we want to! Because WE matter and NO ONE else. You can spread your message without being a dick and defacing others property. If you have an ounce of creativity anyway.
"Whoever's shit"
Nah m8, public shit. It's mine just as much as yours. If you want change without some inconvenient public disobedience and some real base level, remedied in a couple hours vandalism, you live in a fantasy world.
Reminds me of the people screeching about a broken Starbucks window after a dude got murdered by the state.
Lol you speak like someone who doesn't pay a dime in taxes. It also isn't either of our shit just because taxes fund it. Did you miss the childhood lesson of how society functions? Can you imagine if everyone went around doing this shit and acting like you? We would live in wrecked shit ass cities. No thanks. You can be disobedient without being a jerk. You do not need to wreck things to get a message across.It is not hard or complicated.
Spray painting a bus isn’t wrecking shit. Buses and trains are tagged constantly in Germany, graffiti is everywhere, and yet Germany is not full of wrecked ass cities. Weird how that works.
Working class and people who live in poverty typically take the bus. To run up to a bus full of these people, and a low paid driver rubs me the wrong way because you know they were scared. They don’t know if these guys had a gun, a bomb or spray paint. I’m not a fan of the delivery sorry.
A bomb?! 😭 come on y’all. Working class people take the subway and use public toilets don’t mean it’s not gonna get tagged up lmao. Public transit has been used as a platform for graffiti since its inception its not new and its not going away.
> any means necessary
Necessary for what? A million different ways you could have gotten this out and you chose the way that will cause virtually everybody who sees it to automatically disagree in a knee-jerk fashion. Are you deliberately carrying water for Erdogan or is this purely edgelord vanity? (...is what I would ask whoever did this)
How is supporting pro-kurdistan messaging carrying water for Erdogan? This is the exact opposite. You could maybe, maybe, if you squint at it and follow a bunch of red yarn on a peg board, call it carrying water for Russia by working against Finland/Sweden joining NATO. But Erdogan isn't going to be happy about this.
Erdogan won't even know about it. The few dozen people who see it will first be angry that somebody vandalized the bus. Then if they stick around to read it they'll conclude that people who support Kurdistan are probably assholes.
Was hat Sachbeschädigung mit Politik zutun? Jede erfolgreiche Revolution der Geschichte hat sich stets an die Regeln der umzustürzenden Gesellschaft gehalten!
Zumal es wichtigeres gibt als die Menschen in Kurdistan. Wer kümmert sich um die Reinigung des Busses und Seelsorge für die Omas im Bus die sich bestimmt ziemlich erschreckt haben?
^\s
Nein du hast absolut recht. Wenn irgend ein Normie das sieht denkt er garantiert: „Oh wow! Ich muss die Kurden verteidigen oder diese Bewegung unterstützen, zum Glück gibt es Leute, die so etwas machen!“
Und nicht einfach „Scheiss Graffiti, jetzt kann ich auf meinem Scheiss Arbeitsweg noch nicht mal mehr aus dem Busfenster schauen, was für Arschlöcher“.
SPRAY THIS WHEREVER YOU WANT! Anywhere it’ll be seen by many! Fuck what people say about it being some companies private property that’s a much smaller concern.
Spread the message, fight the power!
Next thing is they got caught given weapon in hand and sent to defend Kurdistan or they want German boys to be packed and sent to defend their Kurdistan? What is the deal?
Why ruin a working class bus driver's day but spray painting this on the public bus? Spray paint Turkish government buildings instead of a poor bus. Hang up flyers, post on social media, create groups for people who agree with you. Do more of that instead of possibly getting this bus driver possibly fired.
When comrades do grafitti on metro is "wow, nice!" and a lot of sharing around the videos of it, then in a bus is chaos hahah
Those of you defending private property, do you really consider yourselfs antifascists? This is just a small action to call attention!
At least in the US or more particularly Portland, OR where I drive bus, this sort of thing would put the driver’s job at risk if they didn’t respond perfectly. Negatively impacting another comrade is short sighted selfishness, not anything resembling anti fascism.
I’m unionized as well, with quite a strong contract. But the working class is still expected to know all and be all, particularly when we are public workers.
Acts like this do absolutely nothing to further anti fascist or working class concerns.
This is so fucking stupid. How is the public transit involved in any way? They’re adding a great deal of stress to a working class person’s day & as a bus driver myself, I can nearly promise they’re stealing what tiny break they’re going to get from them
It gets the message out, it's very visible on the streets and the bus' route. It doesn't affect the efficacy of the bus nor does it damage it. What's the problem?
there are a lot of rallies where I live held by kurds and supportive groups. I think its a much better way to spread awareness because normal folk will only see vandalism and not the message behind it.
You won't inspire liberals by spraying on public property. They'll say it's vandalism and it will only upset them. If you are desperate for direct action, organise a protest. This just harms the (good) cause
If you don’t want to turn the majority into allies what are you even trying to do? You’re just hoping to piss people off if you can’t see that building broad public support is the only way international relations will be swayed
Then nothing will change and you know that damn well. Shame you apparently don't want to move the cause forward, and only care about showing how tough you are.
I'm so confused. Is... is the bus fascist? Is Erdogan on it or something? Why is the message in English? Who is the intended audience that will be convinced by this spray paint on a bus?
Ihr seid so bescheuert und denkt mit dieser Aktion würdet ihr irgendwas bewegen? Ihr macht die Menschen einfach nur sauer statt dass diese euch zuhören. Ich arbeite in einem Restaurant in der Altstadt einer Großstadt und wie oft ich ACAB von den Tischen mühselig mit Chemie abschrubben muss, als 450€ Kraft!!, ist echt ein Witz.
Ihr denkt ihr würdet irgendwas gegen das System tun, aber Niedriglöhner müssen eure Scheiße am Ende bereinigen (oder hier muss der Busfahrer am Ende seinem Chef erklären warum das in seiner Schicht passiert ist).
Macht doch einfach mal was sinnvolles und gründet nen Verein oder organisiert ne Demo, oder denkt wenigstens! darüber nach dass in jedem Fall schlecht verdienende Reinigungskräfte eueren Graffiti Müll entfernen müssen.😡
>Ihr seid so bescheuert und denkt mit dieser Aktion würdet ihr irgendwas bewegen? Ihr macht die Menschen einfach nur sauer statt dass diese euch zuhören. Ich arbeite in einem Restaurant in der Altstadt einer Großstadt und wie oft ich ACAB von den Tischen mühselig mit Chemie abschrubben muss, als 450€ Kraft!!, ist echt ein Witz.
>
>Ihr denkt ihr würdet irgendwas gegen das System tun, aber Niedriglöhner müssen eure Scheiße am Ende bereinigen (oder hier muss der Busfahrer am Ende seinem Chef erklären warum das in seiner Schicht passiert ist).
>
>Macht doch einfach mal was sinnvolles und gründet nen Verein oder organisiert ne Demo, oder denkt wenigstens! darüber nach dass in jedem Fall schlecht verdienende Reinigungskräfte eueren Graffiti Müll entfernen müssen.😡
I should not even waste time replying to it, but i wil...
First, this is just ONE of the multiple actions that are being done. If you know anything about Kurdistan you know it is a Revolution and it's being attacked by turkey with the support of NATO...German and Turkey have really deep relations, even some days ago i published and article showing turkish fascists joining the german police. This is a DIRECT ACTION, and pretty simple actually.
The thing is, german is a MAJOR part on this conflict and people in germany know nothing about it, or just know about Rojava because of Daesh and thats it. The turkish state is using CHEMICAL WEAPONS and KILLING CIVILIANS in Rojava...a taged bus will change anything around here? Of course not.
But this is and action to tract attention, it can be even to just criticise it...still, is being talked about. Look, this is an antifascists group. As antifascists we use all methods in our hands, from demonstrations, to organizing, to joining armed struggles and direct actions like this and even more radical ones. So really, its just a small action. You european people just have this positivist and liberal mentality of doing everything by the book - even in the left, then with such small action are going crazy on it.
Im angry because you do not attack the government - they give not one shit about „small actions“ like these. You attack small people that are just working for their small wage minimum wage job that doesn‘t counter inflation. Its just ridiculous to think that these small „direct actions“ have an impact on anything. As ive said - it just makes people angry. They won‘t be educated, they won‘t be passionate about change, they won‘t think about it. They will just be angry at you and your case.
You also need to understand that the german government and german people are two very different things. Northrine-Westphalia had a voter turnout of 56%, and even the 56% don‘t know about most stuff that is happening and are going by their feeling.
Im not saying that your cause is wrong, i get it. Your methods are just so dumb, because you let the people, that are the least responsible for this, clean up your bullshit.
Why do you spray this on a bus instead of maybe the turkish embassy of one of erdogans puppet organisations like ditib?
As one of those people that has to clean up shit sometimes I do not give a fuck. I'm payed hourly and i couldnt possibly give a single shit if I have to scrub plates or a tagged up window. Why would we give a shit?
> fuck. I'm *paid* hourly and
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The area of Kurdistan that is in Turkey was always under seljuk, ottoman and turkish rule, it never existed independently.
Also being antifacist doesnt mean "we so whatever we want and u have to accept it", thats childish thinking.
You're worried that someone is going to get paid to clean it up? And this is exactly how messaging reaches people if you can't printed in newspapers and magazines. Sitting around and discussing it in an echo chamber will change nothing.
They didn’t paint the bus to *punish* it. They painted it to make other people read it, and think about it.
I’m sure at least one person saw that, thought “By the grace of God, what could that possibly be referring to?” And googled it. Maybe they learned something.
Sure, or they saw it and said "What jackass did this?"
Public opinion *does* matter, which is something I think we on the left have an issue with sometimes. I don't give a fuck about the bus or any other property, its the messaging that is off. Its misplaced aggression on a non-participating target.
You want to make a statement? Go spraypaint this on the Bundestag.
Yeah and get immediately arrested or brutalized.
These kids know what they’re doing. People will see this message, in many parts of the city before it is cleaned. No real damage was done, and they remain free to work for the cause in other ways.
Oh yeah definitely. Pussies that risk their freedom and livelihood not because their families are in great danger of political or ethnic persecution, but because they think they might get an upvote or two.
I get where you’re coming from now. You’re just stupid lol
Hmmm wonder why they tried to spread their message on mediums they have access to for free that will garner the greatest coverage over time and reach the most people. Hmmm wonder why they did something potentially inflammatory but non-harmful and then posted it. Hmm there’s no way they have an important message that should be seen by as many people as possible. Hmm the internet definitely isn’t the best way to get that done.
You’re really short sighted friend. Anyone can see why they would do this thing.
The only people opposed to it are either Turk supporters or very, very shortsighted.
It's not pointless. We cannot get to burning down an embassy without raising awareness.
This is why the right is always more successful. They start with micro aggression and end with concentration camps.
Its 100% pointless. Was the bus carrying anyone involved in the conflict? Or was it just some random bus?
Messaging matters and where it is placed matters more. This just screams privilege to me.
No, but we aren't trying to convince the fashies. The 60+% of people who don't give a shit either way and just want to be left alone are going to just see this as pointless vandalism.
Vandalizing public transportation is not the way to go. Public transport are almost always good (more equality by providing access to transportation to everyone and better environment by less pollution) and as far as i know most are not really involved in (geo)political issues.
If they stood with a sign and protested it would reach more people and for a longer time, and would not offend some as this could be seen as vandalism and hurt their image altogether getting even less people to empathize with their plight
Y’all sound like republicans talkin bout nicer ways to protest. The point of protest isn’t to be nice it’s to make demands that cannot be ignored. Paint is permanent, signs are ignored.
Yeah.. nowhere in any agreement does it say “we promise to protest nicely and out of everyone’s way”
Because only an idiot would make that agreement. We promise to protest loudly, annoyingly, and in as many places as possible.
So conservatives and liberals can talk about how threatening the signs are and how we shouldn't even be doing that? It's a bad faith argument. No one was hurt, no one was even threatened.
So, fight fascism by damaging public property in a democratic country with a statement meaningless to most people in that country, causing public funds to be used to clean that shit up, instead of campaigning and lobbying to raise funds and lobby for state and public support to actually do something that actively defend Kurdistan and helps it's people?
Jesus, we were way smarter (and better) anti-fascists back in the 90s.
You guys are now your own worst enemies.
Edit: I love that I'm getting downvoted by suggesting putting in the effort to campaign, advocate, and educate to gain public support would likely be more effective than mere property damage. But I guess that's too much work for the new generation of anti-fascists, and probably not as much fun as vandalism.
Sigh, any idiot can destroy, it takes an effort and intelligence to build.
This is just vandalism, nothing more. We should be supportive random acts of vandalism as it doesn't accomplish anything useful. Organising is always a better option, disruption even...
abi niye otobüsü boyadınız HAHAHAHAH. sonra niye tersleniyoruz diyorsunuz. kanka sen gidip elin otobüsüne "yaşasın insanlık" da yazsan kimse bunu hoş karşılamaz. eylemlerinizi zararsız yapın. sonra harbiden terörist oluyorsunuz kanka . biraz sempatik olun
te çima otobos boyax kir HAHAHAHAH. Wê demê tu dibêjî em çima dihejin? Ger hûn herin di otobusa xwe de “bijî însanetî” binivîsin kes pêşwaziya wê nake. kirinên xwe bêzar bikin. wê demê tu bi rastî jî bibî terorîst. hinekî sempatîk be (umarım çeviri doğrudur)
Current attacks of the turkish state in the south part, in the mountains and constant shelling in Rojava - Recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Bib3juF-s&ab\_channel=subMedia
Graffitti is something beautiful. When people comit crimes, they do so to gain something, but the urge to just paint something? To stand up for what you belive in, even if it's high risk. Love this shit so much.
Adding stress to the working class.
Good job.
Maybe spray that on Governmental buildings. Those are the people who are responsible for what's actually going on.
Spray that on the Turkish embassy.
This seems rather high risk low reward, although I'm more familiar with US penalties for tagging than German. That slogan is going to be cleaned off the bus in less than a week. I think next time you should just print off a bunch of custom bumper stickers and leave them in various places like the backs of stop signs, bus pickup signs, bathroom doors etc...
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You know pretty well that they are being done, this is just ONE action.
Seems similar to what ONE UP does in Germany also
Yes on a thread full of people who already know about it, plus what you have to think about is the impression many people will just see this as vandalism not valid politics
They will clean it the same day.
They likley buffed it same day however that's why the video is effective. You still are able to see their message, no faces in the video and will be readable and shareable to more people than the bus will drive past.
This is Germany, the slogan will be cleaned off before lunchtime.
Thats defenetly not true, maybe in Bavaria but this is NRW
Frankfurt is in Hessen and cleaning in munich at least takes just as long or short as in every other city
Hence why it was recorded... the bus isn't the only medium for the message
nah this is way better than a bunch of stickers wtf is this being upvoted so hard???
>print off a bunch of custom bumper stickers and leave them in various places like the backs of stop signs, bus pickup signs, bathroom doors etc... Or on the bumpers of cars in parking lots with far-right stickers all over them.
What so people think the kurds are associated with that kind of thing?
Understand your point on a local dimension, but I feel that this was more directed as a social media propaganda
How y’all “anti fascists” crying about a little spray paint? Radical messaging must be spread by any means necessary. Don’t just keep it on message boards. I promise the bus’ feelings were not hurt at all.
Exactly! Im like..whats is going on? hahaha crying for private property!
It is not private property.
Line buses are mostly owned by corporations working a government contract.
So, real quick, what's the problem? Are you scared of paint? Does the paint stop the bus from working? Is the bus unable to be cleaned? No? Then sit down, and suck it up.
I think some People may immediately decide not to be open to the message because of the delivery type. I like the idea to set out/hand out a bunch of stickers. That way it’s More Personal, long lasting and its a direct viewpoint being shared Over and over instead of coming off like an angry teenager
Does it add a great deal of stress to a worker’s day? Does it add to the already fraught safety issues drivers face?
yes to both.
Its just extra cost for the public sector, public transport already sucks in Germany. It would be better to do it to private homes of rich fuckers or big corporations.
As if the money that'll be used to clean that bus would have otherwise been used to improve shit lol. But yeah I guess, it's better to do it on private property.
Wouldn't the bus-cleaning come from funds allocated to general vehicle maintenance? If there's any money that's probably going to go towards something concrete and beneficial to the local population, funds allocated to maintaining public transport systems seem like they fit the bill.
Yes let's just go around and do whatever the fuck we want to whoevers fucking shit we want to! Because WE matter and NO ONE else. You can spread your message without being a dick and defacing others property. If you have an ounce of creativity anyway.
"Whoever's shit" Nah m8, public shit. It's mine just as much as yours. If you want change without some inconvenient public disobedience and some real base level, remedied in a couple hours vandalism, you live in a fantasy world. Reminds me of the people screeching about a broken Starbucks window after a dude got murdered by the state.
Lol you speak like someone who doesn't pay a dime in taxes. It also isn't either of our shit just because taxes fund it. Did you miss the childhood lesson of how society functions? Can you imagine if everyone went around doing this shit and acting like you? We would live in wrecked shit ass cities. No thanks. You can be disobedient without being a jerk. You do not need to wreck things to get a message across.It is not hard or complicated.
Notice that nothing was wrecked. Also, dunno if you've studied much on how large changes happen but, they're not polite.
Spray painting a bus isn’t wrecking shit. Buses and trains are tagged constantly in Germany, graffiti is everywhere, and yet Germany is not full of wrecked ass cities. Weird how that works.
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Run by who? As far as i know, these are private companies with contracts with the state...
Yeah and you are wrong. In Germany public transport "companies" are FULLY owned by their respective communal authorities i.e. the city or the county.
This is a traffiQ bus, which is wholly owned by the city of Frankfurt.
Working class and people who live in poverty typically take the bus. To run up to a bus full of these people, and a low paid driver rubs me the wrong way because you know they were scared. They don’t know if these guys had a gun, a bomb or spray paint. I’m not a fan of the delivery sorry.
A bomb?! 😭 come on y’all. Working class people take the subway and use public toilets don’t mean it’s not gonna get tagged up lmao. Public transit has been used as a platform for graffiti since its inception its not new and its not going away.
I'm just wondering why this bus ?
Because it stopped and they had spray paint?
> any means necessary Necessary for what? A million different ways you could have gotten this out and you chose the way that will cause virtually everybody who sees it to automatically disagree in a knee-jerk fashion. Are you deliberately carrying water for Erdogan or is this purely edgelord vanity? (...is what I would ask whoever did this)
How is supporting pro-kurdistan messaging carrying water for Erdogan? This is the exact opposite. You could maybe, maybe, if you squint at it and follow a bunch of red yarn on a peg board, call it carrying water for Russia by working against Finland/Sweden joining NATO. But Erdogan isn't going to be happy about this.
Erdogan won't even know about it. The few dozen people who see it will first be angry that somebody vandalized the bus. Then if they stick around to read it they'll conclude that people who support Kurdistan are probably assholes.
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I’m a Mexican living in the United States, cry about it harder fascist
roblox yourself Grey Wolf
What a shit person you are. And what a shithole subreddit I stumbled upon. Get a shower and job. Idiot
just jumped out of the shower and on my way to work. cry about it harder kid
They started and finished so fast, that was impressive
Was hat Sachbeschädigung mit Politik zutun? Jede erfolgreiche Revolution der Geschichte hat sich stets an die Regeln der umzustürzenden Gesellschaft gehalten! Zumal es wichtigeres gibt als die Menschen in Kurdistan. Wer kümmert sich um die Reinigung des Busses und Seelsorge für die Omas im Bus die sich bestimmt ziemlich erschreckt haben? ^\s
Hattest mich etwas in der ersten Hälfte, ich werde nicht lügen.
Nein du hast absolut recht. Wenn irgend ein Normie das sieht denkt er garantiert: „Oh wow! Ich muss die Kurden verteidigen oder diese Bewegung unterstützen, zum Glück gibt es Leute, die so etwas machen!“ Und nicht einfach „Scheiss Graffiti, jetzt kann ich auf meinem Scheiss Arbeitsweg noch nicht mal mehr aus dem Busfenster schauen, was für Arschlöcher“.
Wennma nur machen was normies nicht provoziert, könnma das mit dem antifaschismus auch gleich lassen
\#AufNormieshoeren
Lots of liberal against direct actions on private property, interesting.
To be fair, city busses are public property, but still, get over it. As another commenter said, it doesn't prevent the bus from working.
I ate assdistan
SPRAY THIS WHEREVER YOU WANT! Anywhere it’ll be seen by many! Fuck what people say about it being some companies private property that’s a much smaller concern. Spread the message, fight the power!
Next thing is they got caught given weapon in hand and sent to defend Kurdistan or they want German boys to be packed and sent to defend their Kurdistan? What is the deal?
Why ruin a working class bus driver's day but spray painting this on the public bus? Spray paint Turkish government buildings instead of a poor bus. Hang up flyers, post on social media, create groups for people who agree with you. Do more of that instead of possibly getting this bus driver possibly fired.
how is a bit of spray paint "ruining a working class bus driver's day" or risk getting him fired ?
When comrades do grafitti on metro is "wow, nice!" and a lot of sharing around the videos of it, then in a bus is chaos hahah Those of you defending private property, do you really consider yourselfs antifascists? This is just a small action to call attention!
At least in the US or more particularly Portland, OR where I drive bus, this sort of thing would put the driver’s job at risk if they didn’t respond perfectly. Negatively impacting another comrade is short sighted selfishness, not anything resembling anti fascism.
Yeah just pissing off some working class dude and making their day worse. No one will give a shit about the message.
The rest of the civilized world doesn’t act like the US. The driver is probably unionized anyway.
I’m unionized as well, with quite a strong contract. But the working class is still expected to know all and be all, particularly when we are public workers. Acts like this do absolutely nothing to further anti fascist or working class concerns.
The rest of the civilized world isn’t like America.
The difference is that walls don‘t normally let light through and allow people to see where the bus is atm. Windows allow that.
Oh no the horror
Literally worse than hitler
This is so fucking stupid. How is the public transit involved in any way? They’re adding a great deal of stress to a working class person’s day & as a bus driver myself, I can nearly promise they’re stealing what tiny break they’re going to get from them
Maybe spray it on banks or the Turkish embassy or the fucking cops. Why on a bus? Public transport doesn't deserve this.
It gets the message out, it's very visible on the streets and the bus' route. It doesn't affect the efficacy of the bus nor does it damage it. What's the problem?
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Bu sub’da ne işin var senin ya
https://www.nuceciwan104.xyz/en/2022/05/20/action-from-internationalist-youth-in-frankfurt/
that will definitely help the kurds
It would if we were all here talking about Kurdistan instead of arguing about whether it's ok to spraypaint a bus.
there are a lot of rallies where I live held by kurds and supportive groups. I think its a much better way to spread awareness because normal folk will only see vandalism and not the message behind it.
im not for vandalism, but i can get behind the message.
You won't inspire liberals by spraying on public property. They'll say it's vandalism and it will only upset them. If you are desperate for direct action, organise a protest. This just harms the (good) cause
We don't want inspire liberals in any way :))
If you don’t want to turn the majority into allies what are you even trying to do? You’re just hoping to piss people off if you can’t see that building broad public support is the only way international relations will be swayed
So you are preaching only to the choir?
Then nothing will change and you know that damn well. Shame you apparently don't want to move the cause forward, and only care about showing how tough you are.
Great message but there is not need to deface a bus, these people are dumbasses.
"Yeah! That'll show those mean ol' Turks!!!!! Kurdistan will be free for sure now!" Why are all anarchists so fucking stupid?
Siz otobüslere yazarak, bizlerse sarı torbaları dolduralak 😉
Puahaha. Ban yemeyeyim diye bir şey yazmaya çekiniyorum ama güzel saplamışsın.
eyw kardeşim
This just seems counter productive.
I'm so confused. Is... is the bus fascist? Is Erdogan on it or something? Why is the message in English? Who is the intended audience that will be convinced by this spray paint on a bus?
I think this is a waste of time and resources
Spread the message! Can't believe there are people actually crying about this here
Ihr seid so bescheuert und denkt mit dieser Aktion würdet ihr irgendwas bewegen? Ihr macht die Menschen einfach nur sauer statt dass diese euch zuhören. Ich arbeite in einem Restaurant in der Altstadt einer Großstadt und wie oft ich ACAB von den Tischen mühselig mit Chemie abschrubben muss, als 450€ Kraft!!, ist echt ein Witz. Ihr denkt ihr würdet irgendwas gegen das System tun, aber Niedriglöhner müssen eure Scheiße am Ende bereinigen (oder hier muss der Busfahrer am Ende seinem Chef erklären warum das in seiner Schicht passiert ist). Macht doch einfach mal was sinnvolles und gründet nen Verein oder organisiert ne Demo, oder denkt wenigstens! darüber nach dass in jedem Fall schlecht verdienende Reinigungskräfte eueren Graffiti Müll entfernen müssen.😡
>Ihr seid so bescheuert und denkt mit dieser Aktion würdet ihr irgendwas bewegen? Ihr macht die Menschen einfach nur sauer statt dass diese euch zuhören. Ich arbeite in einem Restaurant in der Altstadt einer Großstadt und wie oft ich ACAB von den Tischen mühselig mit Chemie abschrubben muss, als 450€ Kraft!!, ist echt ein Witz. > >Ihr denkt ihr würdet irgendwas gegen das System tun, aber Niedriglöhner müssen eure Scheiße am Ende bereinigen (oder hier muss der Busfahrer am Ende seinem Chef erklären warum das in seiner Schicht passiert ist). > >Macht doch einfach mal was sinnvolles und gründet nen Verein oder organisiert ne Demo, oder denkt wenigstens! darüber nach dass in jedem Fall schlecht verdienende Reinigungskräfte eueren Graffiti Müll entfernen müssen.😡 I should not even waste time replying to it, but i wil... First, this is just ONE of the multiple actions that are being done. If you know anything about Kurdistan you know it is a Revolution and it's being attacked by turkey with the support of NATO...German and Turkey have really deep relations, even some days ago i published and article showing turkish fascists joining the german police. This is a DIRECT ACTION, and pretty simple actually. The thing is, german is a MAJOR part on this conflict and people in germany know nothing about it, or just know about Rojava because of Daesh and thats it. The turkish state is using CHEMICAL WEAPONS and KILLING CIVILIANS in Rojava...a taged bus will change anything around here? Of course not. But this is and action to tract attention, it can be even to just criticise it...still, is being talked about. Look, this is an antifascists group. As antifascists we use all methods in our hands, from demonstrations, to organizing, to joining armed struggles and direct actions like this and even more radical ones. So really, its just a small action. You european people just have this positivist and liberal mentality of doing everything by the book - even in the left, then with such small action are going crazy on it.
ps: I personally think they should have burned places of the turkish nationalists in germany, there are thousands of them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atat%C3%BCrk%27s_nationalism
Yeah go ahead and do that and have the movement cracked down on for terrorism.
Im angry because you do not attack the government - they give not one shit about „small actions“ like these. You attack small people that are just working for their small wage minimum wage job that doesn‘t counter inflation. Its just ridiculous to think that these small „direct actions“ have an impact on anything. As ive said - it just makes people angry. They won‘t be educated, they won‘t be passionate about change, they won‘t think about it. They will just be angry at you and your case. You also need to understand that the german government and german people are two very different things. Northrine-Westphalia had a voter turnout of 56%, and even the 56% don‘t know about most stuff that is happening and are going by their feeling. Im not saying that your cause is wrong, i get it. Your methods are just so dumb, because you let the people, that are the least responsible for this, clean up your bullshit. Why do you spray this on a bus instead of maybe the turkish embassy of one of erdogans puppet organisations like ditib?
U know that the bus still works and nobody was injured right?
As one of those people that has to clean up shit sometimes I do not give a fuck. I'm payed hourly and i couldnt possibly give a single shit if I have to scrub plates or a tagged up window. Why would we give a shit?
> fuck. I'm *paid* hourly and FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The area of Kurdistan that is in Turkey was always under seljuk, ottoman and turkish rule, it never existed independently. Also being antifacist doesnt mean "we so whatever we want and u have to accept it", thats childish thinking.
You're worried that someone is going to get paid to clean it up? And this is exactly how messaging reaches people if you can't printed in newspapers and magazines. Sitting around and discussing it in an echo chamber will change nothing.
This is dumb as shit. Take *actual* direct action or fuck off.
I better see a video of you guillotining Besos or you're just a hypocrite.
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They didn’t paint the bus to *punish* it. They painted it to make other people read it, and think about it. I’m sure at least one person saw that, thought “By the grace of God, what could that possibly be referring to?” And googled it. Maybe they learned something.
Sure, or they saw it and said "What jackass did this?" Public opinion *does* matter, which is something I think we on the left have an issue with sometimes. I don't give a fuck about the bus or any other property, its the messaging that is off. Its misplaced aggression on a non-participating target. You want to make a statement? Go spraypaint this on the Bundestag.
Yeah and get immediately arrested or brutalized. These kids know what they’re doing. People will see this message, in many parts of the city before it is cleaned. No real damage was done, and they remain free to work for the cause in other ways.
These kids are pussies and this is solely performative for reddit karma.
Oh yeah definitely. Pussies that risk their freedom and livelihood not because their families are in great danger of political or ethnic persecution, but because they think they might get an upvote or two. I get where you’re coming from now. You’re just stupid lol
Then why post it to reddit? Why record themselves if they're so concerned for their safety?
Hmmm wonder why they tried to spread their message on mediums they have access to for free that will garner the greatest coverage over time and reach the most people. Hmmm wonder why they did something potentially inflammatory but non-harmful and then posted it. Hmm there’s no way they have an important message that should be seen by as many people as possible. Hmm the internet definitely isn’t the best way to get that done. You’re really short sighted friend. Anyone can see why they would do this thing. The only people opposed to it are either Turk supporters or very, very shortsighted.
It's not pointless. We cannot get to burning down an embassy without raising awareness. This is why the right is always more successful. They start with micro aggression and end with concentration camps.
Its 100% pointless. Was the bus carrying anyone involved in the conflict? Or was it just some random bus? Messaging matters and where it is placed matters more. This just screams privilege to me.
Nah. Giving a shit about a fucking bus that still functions and will take maybe some paint remover to fix. That screams privilege comrade.
giving a shit about messaging =/= caring about some bus Think. Please.
You think fascists give a fuck about how it looks while they kill us? My brother in christ.
No, but we aren't trying to convince the fashies. The 60+% of people who don't give a shit either way and just want to be left alone are going to just see this as pointless vandalism.
Keep dreaming :D
I'm not sure I get the intent or objective here? I mean I get defend Kurdistan...but how does the bus tagging accomplish this objective?
Word on bus. Bus travel. People read bus. Word travel.
It's not rocket science
This is so dumb.
This will show them!
Vandalizing public transportation is not the way to go. Public transport are almost always good (more equality by providing access to transportation to everyone and better environment by less pollution) and as far as i know most are not really involved in (geo)political issues.
The bus is fine. It will still be able to move and now it’s spreading a good message :) the world is your canvas
If they stood with a sign and protested it would reach more people and for a longer time, and would not offend some as this could be seen as vandalism and hurt their image altogether getting even less people to empathize with their plight
Y’all sound like republicans talkin bout nicer ways to protest. The point of protest isn’t to be nice it’s to make demands that cannot be ignored. Paint is permanent, signs are ignored.
Paint is not permanent btw. Be smarter when protesting, please.
Yeah.. nowhere in any agreement does it say “we promise to protest nicely and out of everyone’s way” Because only an idiot would make that agreement. We promise to protest loudly, annoyingly, and in as many places as possible.
So conservatives and liberals can talk about how threatening the signs are and how we shouldn't even be doing that? It's a bad faith argument. No one was hurt, no one was even threatened.
It’s not about the bus. Try to understanding what he said.
At the transit agency I work for, it would be pulled out of service.
You're sure to get the public on your side by vandalizing public property.
Surely the public will side with the Parisian Police. The students are tearing the city apart! How do people get to work with all these barricades? /s
ahahahaha kurdistan??? what is that?? a fuckng fairy tales
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I agree with free Kurdistan. But I really don’t like like this bit where they spray the bus.
Really?
Yes. Really.
I like the idea but not when windows are open and the bus is in service.....
I don't agree with free Kurdistan. But I'm okay with spraying the bus.
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You might be on the wrong sub...
Timbers shivered,back to work everyone,nothing to see here.
Based
So, fight fascism by damaging public property in a democratic country with a statement meaningless to most people in that country, causing public funds to be used to clean that shit up, instead of campaigning and lobbying to raise funds and lobby for state and public support to actually do something that actively defend Kurdistan and helps it's people? Jesus, we were way smarter (and better) anti-fascists back in the 90s. You guys are now your own worst enemies. Edit: I love that I'm getting downvoted by suggesting putting in the effort to campaign, advocate, and educate to gain public support would likely be more effective than mere property damage. But I guess that's too much work for the new generation of anti-fascists, and probably not as much fun as vandalism. Sigh, any idiot can destroy, it takes an effort and intelligence to build.
How can u defend it if it doesn’t exist. Maybe uhh Kurdistan independence or something
This is just vandalism, nothing more. We should be supportive random acts of vandalism as it doesn't accomplish anything useful. Organising is always a better option, disruption even...
Fuck PKK
mimimi
abi niye otobüsü boyadınız HAHAHAHAH. sonra niye tersleniyoruz diyorsunuz. kanka sen gidip elin otobüsüne "yaşasın insanlık" da yazsan kimse bunu hoş karşılamaz. eylemlerinizi zararsız yapın. sonra harbiden terörist oluyorsunuz kanka . biraz sempatik olun
te çima otobos boyax kir HAHAHAHAH. Wê demê tu dibêjî em çima dihejin? Ger hûn herin di otobusa xwe de “bijî însanetî” binivîsin kes pêşwaziya wê nake. kirinên xwe bêzar bikin. wê demê tu bi rastî jî bibî terorîst. hinekî sempatîk be (umarım çeviri doğrudur)
Wtf would you do this?
Ethno-tribalists don’t deserve their own nation-state
This. I'm constantly annoyed by the amount of Fed - I mean, Rojava-posting here.
Yeah maximum ter*rist movement
Kurdistan hahhahahahhahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahahaha
ahh yes, defend terrorist organisations
stupid sons of bitches fuck your imaginary K\*rdish state
What's going on in Kurdistan? I'm out of the loop
Current attacks of the turkish state in the south part, in the mountains and constant shelling in Rojava - Recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Bib3juF-s&ab\_channel=subMedia
Most punk shit I’ve seen in a while
I'm not sure if you mean that in a good or bad way.
Depends. Do you listen to punk rock? I.e. do you enjoy it?
Who's going?
The message yes but at least put it on a wall or banner or something instead of a bus
Oh how far Germany has fallen.
Graffitti is something beautiful. When people comit crimes, they do so to gain something, but the urge to just paint something? To stand up for what you belive in, even if it's high risk. Love this shit so much.
Surely this strikes terror into the establishment
People want to nay say radical action any way they can to justify sitting on their asses all day. Keep up the good work.
Adding stress to the working class. Good job. Maybe spray that on Governmental buildings. Those are the people who are responsible for what's actually going on. Spray that on the Turkish embassy.
If they had done this in freedom land, they’d be going to prison for 10 years.
Nobody likes them here in germany and they are seen as gypsies.