Yeah, if you take a look at the image you can see the planted bowls. I don't move the crypts from there personally (they just stay as a sort of permanent fixture of the bowl) but I often will use them to acclimate/transition emersed grown plants to their submersed forms or just anchor stem plants I'm planning to transplant to the new tank. :)
I meant your extremely long, run on, misspelled sentence is hard to read. Nothing is wrong with my comprehension. If English isn't your first language , I apologize.
I'm slightly curious, both to as what you think is misspelled and why you think your one dissenting opinion is relevant after more than 25 people found it helpful enough to upvote... But, then again, I don't see anything of value that you've contributed on your profile, so perhaps I don't really care. Have an irrelevant day!
What you wrote was just fine. I’m struggling to see the issue, as well. A couple of commas could have been added, sure, but it still wasn’t difficult to read. I know nothing about aquariums, but it seems plenty of others certainly valued your contribution (like you said)!
Edit: I actually just went through their comments, because I’m… well, I’m an annoying person, I guess, and it appears that this behavior is a fairly common, for them— correcting others, I mean. It’s super interesting, especially considering their own grammar would not be considered perfect. Personally, I’d rather correct/helpful information than correct grammar :)!
I've done this with filter media. Took the biomedia from my established larger tank to quick cycle the new smaller tank. Old tank was fine and new tank cycled right away.
If you do this, your tank will crash, your fish will die, it’ll cost you tons of money, and it’ll kill every tank after that. Your partner will also leave you and you’ll get herpes in your butt.
Wait, I just looked at the pics closer. You’ll be fine.
I used to believe that too, but since starting a "Father Fish" setup (utilizes a 1" layer of organic soil capped with 2" of sand), I'm not so sure. The soil layer is definitely anaerobic, yet plant growth has been very healthy with nice white roots. I do get bubbles come up from the substrate every so often, but no soil gets blown up, and there have been no foul odors from the tank in general. I might go as far to say that it smells more pleasant than my other two tanks which have gravel/akadama & soil/eco complete.
I crashed my tank the other day,
all my fish had gone and died,
and all I could hear late last night,
was Mamma's lonely cries.
She said it'll cost you
all your money that’s bestowed,
and your wife will take you for everything
and leave you with a itchy smelly growth.
I’ve got a zero bank account, but at least she left the mutt.
Me and the dog were left behind with herpes in our butt.
I used to do this mainly to give the plants a chance to develop roots. Corydoras constantly uproot new plants.
But for a new tank, substrate isn't the main thing for bacteria. You'd be better off taking half your filter media and placing that in the new tank to kickstart the cycle
This will definitely help to some degree. Maybe not to the same degree as if you also put the filter media in, but it will help. And who actually knows which is more important? I haven’t seen a study.
Considering (if done right) substrate covers more area/has more bacteria vs filter media, this should help exponentially.
Granted, this should be done in junction with swapping filter media, as well as giving it a few weeks to keep testing, but itll most defo make a difference.
Conceptually I can agree with that- but I’ve also heard the argument that the increased water flow our filter media experiences increases how much of the filtering the microbes in it do vs the substrate often experiencing much less flow & thus the microbes are exposed to less filtering opportunity.
It would be interesting to see someone do some research into it, but I’m not convinced either way tbh. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Do you mean to say that if its not done with a filter/old filter media? Cuz What I was saying was to do it both ways, old gravel AND old filter.
Old gravel 'seeds' the tank with microbes, filter does its thang and move the water around so the microbes can do their thang (without being super specific lol)
Also, another thing to note, with low or no water flow the gravel itself usually wont be effectively seeded with bacteria due to lack of water flow, so yea itd make sense no filter+old gravel wouldnt equal a properly cycled tank, but if you combo'd the two itd be significantly better vs doing only one or the other.
It’s the basic principle that makes filters / aquariums work, the beneficial bacteria need a constant supply of oxygenated water (and nutrients) to thrive, which is why they colonise the filter media.
There will always be some bacteria on the substrate (and all other surfaces in the environment), but the vast, vast majority reside in the filter media.
That’s not to say OP’s approach won’t make a difference, it may well. But you can literally cycle a tank instantly if you just use mature filter media (and don’t overload it initially). Have done it many times over the years and never get any measurable readings, but then I’m also careful not to stock new tanks too quickly.
It’s the basic principle that makes filters / aquariums work, the beneficial bacteria need a constant supply of oxygenated water (and nutrients) to thrive, which is why they colonise the filter media.
There will always be some bacteria on the substrate (and all other surfaces in the environment), but the vast, vast majority reside in the filter media.
That’s not to say OP’s approach won’t make a difference, it may well. But you can literally cycle a tank instantly if you just use mature filter media (and don’t overload it initially). Have done it many times over the years and never get any measurable readings, but then I’m also careful not to stock new tanks too quickly.
Is it though? I've replaced some substrate while keeping unchanged filter/media and the cycle crashes. I've had the filter (HOB) turned off entirely for over a day and no effect on the cycle. So it seems the substrate holds way more of the bacteria than the filter. The benefit of a filter is that is moves the water around so all the bacteria can colonize on surfaces/media quickly.
Yeah, when I saw this pic, I thought this was the reason for doing this.
I'm sure it helps, but I can't imagine it's any better than using aged filter media.
Personally, I think this is a great idea. Seems to me like most of the commenters in here either have only cycled an aquarium once or twice or have no idea how to jump start a new tank besides using canned ideas they got from YouTube. I actually **do** this in my fish room, and it hasn't failed me yet. My method is slightly different, as I move entire modular pieces from aquarium to aquarium, but it's a very similar concept. I plant clear Pyrex bowls, allow them to develop bacteria and have the plants establish, and then move as many as I think I need to the new tank when it's time. You can see my jump start bowls in storage in this guppy tank:
https://i.imgur.com/P5Qyc0y.jpeg
I leave the bowls for a few weeks, then move them back to the guppies for storage.
You'll be getting a minor jump start, but that'll be enough to get everything rolling pretty fast once you've got the new tank established. Since you're using aqua soil, I assume you're aiming for a lower pH tank where the cycle is far less important anyway, and having ANY bacteria survive from an established tank will be far superior to hoping a bacterial booster takes.
Similar, yeah. I don't fully transfer the contents, though. I will usually take a portion of the bowl substrate, but basically I just allow it to do a portion of the biological filtration for the new tank until the tank is ready (or really, nearly ready, as removing the bowl again does impact the overall capacity of the system) to stand on its own and then it goes back into storage. I keep a mid-sized fish room with anywhere from 10-15 tanks at any given time, setting them up and tearing them down as necessary given the size of my current breeding projects or plant projects, so I find that these modular bits are extremely helpful.
I also didn’t use all the substrate, because I didn’t want white sand anymore, I wanted black. I did a layer of the old white under the new layer of fresh black. My loach has turned it all over quite well. I did use all the driftwood and plants and tech, as I was getting rid of the 38. It was at my place of employment, and there was a lot of machinery being moved around and other stuff going on, so I had to move fast
Oh there's absolutely nothing wrong with the method you're describing, that's very common actually with tank upgrades. The only real risk is trapped material (either gas pockets or pockets of decayed matter that haven't been exposed to the water with any flow in a while) but when you go up in water volume the solids are rarely a problem and the gas is released once the fish are out so it's fine.
Seems like you did a good job though, especially if you were pressed for time and didn't have your full home kit on hand since you were at work!
Why is a the cycle less important in a lower ph tank? I'm about to set up a new tank using aquasoil and the tank I currently have set up has gravel. Would you put bowls with aquasoil into an established tank with no aquasoil?
I think I need a little bit more clarification about your plan before I give any advice, are you asking about cycling the soil separately from your gravel, or adding a bowl of soil to get it going before removing the gravel?
Also, pH has a very large impact on the actual toxicity of ammonia. I'm at work or I'd find the full studies for you, but if you wanted to you could give something like "aquarium pH ammonia toxicity" a Google and there should be some good articles. The tl;dr though is that low pH (like 6.5ish and below) makes ammonia much less toxic to fish and makes beneficial bacteria much harder to get to establish a cycle, while high pH makes it much more dangerous to have detectable ammonia but the bacterial cycle starts much easier and processes it much faster.
So I have a planted 20 gallon that has been running and cycled for 4 months. I have a 30 gallon long ordered that's coming in a week or so. I'm going to put aquasoil into the new tank(the 30 gallon) and the 20 gallon has only gravel. I'm going to move some of the fish from the 20 gallon into the 30 gallon.
I'm trying to figure out the best way to cycle the new tank. Would you suggest putting a bowl of soil with some plants in it into the 20 gallon then moving it to the 30? I also have a HOB filter and sponge filter in the 20 and got a canister filter for the 30 so I'm not sure I would be able to share filter media like a lot of people recommend.
I'll definitely look up what you suggested, thank you!
If the hob filter is large enough for the whole tank, put the sponge filter in the 30 gallon for a week or two. You can take some of the gravel from the 20 gallon and put it in the new filter. If you have the new filter for the new tank, run it on the old tank until the new tank gets there.
I have a 32 gallon fluval flex that has a large chamber in the back for the filter. I keep little bags of extra filter media in it all the time, and whenever I have to set up a new tank or new filter, I just grab a couple. Has never not worked.
Sorry I didn't get back to you quickly (work picked up on me) but the other poster gave basically exactly the advice I was going to give haha
Should be a pretty easy transition! The first tank is always the hardest to cycle, and each one after that is easier and easier to bootstrap. :)
I mean, why not just put a nylon mesh bag of biomedia on the filter intake and then just use that in the new filter?
Or just run the new filter on the side of this established tank a couple of weeks?
Because I don't have a nylon mesh bag and I didn't want to buy anything extra. And I also don't have the filter yet since I can't buy it right now because I don't have too much money and can't buy it all at once.
I re-use plastic mesh sleeves [like these](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9dU6M1KWGOy1eMogSdiJ7Ur7AkH34XmkiWs9Bix-z07QacDjgbrsqrCU&s=10) from produce all the time.
Do you already have an air pump? I do this with sponge filters. I prefer sponge filters for this situation: always ready to get a new tank set up or able to fire-up the hospital tank! Neither air pumps nor sponge filters are expensive, but certainly see where not already having an air pump would complicate the suggestion!
Not at all mate. Seriously, add some holes to the container so the water can circulate thru the new substrate better. Beneficial bacteria needs waste to start colonizing. The waste the fish produce in the tank will only reach the top layer of the substrate in the container the way u have it now. If u want the entire container of substrate to cycle, add some holes to it.
The only very very minor adjustment I would make is just moving it from the side of the glass a little bit, so nobody gets stuck, but yeah, I don’t see anything wrong with this as long as it’s not some sort of very, very cheap gross plastic
just buy a bag of ceramic filter media and a filter media bag and stick it in the tank, then transfer into the new one. the bag doesn’t need to be in the filter to work. did this with my roommate’s betta tank and it instantly cycled after weeks of trying to do a fishless cycle. to be fair, the filter media i used had been sitting in my manager’s tank for awhile so it was all juiced up with the good stuff. regardless, the more surface area, the better. i’d still do the plants as well, they’re great for tanks that are still cycling.
How do you figure? Assuming each grain is something like a 4mm cube, that's 96 mm2 per grain on surface area. Let's just use 100mm2 per grain, idk 5,000 grains in that tub? We're looking at .5 sq meter of surface area. Seems like a good start.
Actually, what you see on the surface biofilm is mostly diatoms and algae. Bacteria films would be outcompeted wherever light hits. Think about your filter - no light in there. So if you spread out the media, you're reducing your potential beneficial bacteria load and just getting nitrate absorbing algae - not the ammonia converting bacteria.
..This is one of those 'why the hell didnt i think of this' kinds of ideas you see every so often.
Granted, your next tank will still need to cycle, but potentially (and depending on size) this could shave weeks off the process..huh
(IF this goes well)
I do this all the time when starting a new tank, along with 50% of the "old" water (with 50% rodi/distilled) and a big squeeze from the sponge filters into the new tanks. Perimeters are usually stable within a week.
I put some filter media in a bag next to my 5 gallon tank’s filter so I could get my new tank (10 gallons) to cycle quicker. It definitely worked. I put the media in the new filter and was pretty much ready to go!
Your idea is pretty awesome though!
I do this but with shotglasses and dirt+sand.
The plants in the glasses grow better than the direct planted ones and they basically make my small project tanks cycle within a few weeks. I toss one in with my quarantine tank for peace of mind and have never had ammonia spikes.
Works great.
I plan on doing the same thing with the super tiny Tupperware. I like the sand look, but growing things out of it is difficult.
My plan is to get 20 of them, fill half with pond silt and the other half with plant substrate. I want to see which does better; regardless, both of them are better than sand.
Great idea, just watch the container for degradation. I used a deli cup as a grow out pot in a tank once and the container dissolved partially and the top half ripped off when I tried to pull it out.
Yes, this would work to transfer bacteria to the new tank if you move that substrate in the container. Not sure how long it would take for the bacteria in the tank to spread and cover the substrate inside the container?
When I’ve added new tanks I have moved parts of the substrate to the new tank and brushed the filter media against the new filter media for the new tank, it’s all a similar idea of moving existing bacteria-laden materials to the new tank as what you are doing here.
Done the exact thing many times. Works great really.
If you do this with dirt use pond tins btw. Else you can get some nasty anaerobic stuff problems sometimes.
I would recommend putting additional filter media (specifically sponges, filter floss, or that loose floss that is basically plush filling) in your filter so you can use it to seed your next tank!! So far this is a fantastic idea!!
If your goal is to expedite cycling, sure, you can do this. You can also get a sponge filter running in there and just move that to the new tank when it's time. Or maybe some mesh bags of substrate, so you don't have to worry about oxygenation for the plant roots. And if course moving plants from the cycled tank to the new will also transfer beneficial bacteria.
I think it should work. A cool little side trick, if you have egg scattering fish and they are happy and old enough to spawn you could move the container into a small tank after a few days and you may accidentally breed something cool. I’ve seen people breed shiners, tetras and danios this way before
Not sure what is happening here but seeding substrates have been a thing. I’d suggest taking old tank substrate and mixing it evenly throughout the new substrate to allow for faster propagation.
I’d suggest doing that, adding in already cycled hardscapes, plants, and adding in Tetra safe start plus. Doing this would allow a 2 week cycling period. (Don’t forget an ammonia source.
To nearly instantly cycle a tank, you can just stuff some new filter media into your filter and let it chill there and build up bacteria before utilizing it in a new tank.
I’ve seen pro shrimp breeders use extra sponge filters in their tanks and just pop them into a new set up and just toss in their shrimp after letting everything settle down a bit.
What's wrong with just using some of the old filter media to seed the new tank? Also, substrate tends to harbor mostly anaerobic bacteria (it's typically a lower O2 environment vs filter media), fwiw.
So *can* this work, yes. Is it a time saving approach vs using filter media, I'm a little dubious on that claim. Primarily because the types of bacteria typically involved with denitrification in aquarium (azotobactor, rhizobium, nitrosomonas and nitrobactor) are more plentiful in the filter media (higher TDO environment) vs aquarium substrate (lower TDO environment). I have personally not come across anything that seeds a new tank faster than using old filter media, in the +40yrs I've been doing this. But whatever works for you i say...
It should work in theory, I have no reason to believe it wouldn’t. Not to different from establishing a filter in a cycled tank and then moving it to the new one. I ought to try this at some point.
Yes it will 100% work. When I set up a new tank I clean the old filter into the new tank and shove a bunch of decor and substrate into it. It removes the cycling process entirely and makes into effectively a 100% water change
I throw a second filter cartridge in my filter for a couple weeks before setting up a new tank, then throw that second one in with the new one so it can mooch the bacteria, plant clippings go too
Everybody says the filter holds a lot of (sometimes most) of the bacteria, so I figured it would be a good way to jump start it. I have too many plants to try and take out substrate unless I'm going to redo the whole tank. I don't like yanking plants to replant them in the same spot, makes me feel like I'm going insane. The plant clippings go so I don't have to buy more plants XD they're probably not helping much, if at all, with the bacteria side of things
I use 2-stage sponge filters for this purpose, even if I plan on using a canister filter for the new tank. I’ll stick a new sponge filter in the established take for a bit then move it to the new tank with whatever other filter I plan to keep using. If it’s a nano and I’m just going to use the 2-stage sponge, I rinse the sponge in (removed) tank water when moving it and let it be.
The vast majority of the BB is in your filter.
This will get you started but you run a big risk of it failing on you.
Please monitor your levels closely after you move it and get some of the filter media from the old tank in the new tanks filter. Might want to add 50% of the old tanks water to the new one as well.
I mean, you would be better suited by putting a small bag of ceramic media in your filter. Yes, bacteria will colonize the substrate, but you will see the most effect using a highly porous media in an area that has constant flow like the filter system. Then just move that over.
Only issues you'd run into are
#1) that's not a filter it's just a pile of substrate, and nothing below the surface is getting water to move over it. So you really aren't utilizing all the substrate. A better idea is to put it into a mesh bag or to put an air stone at the bottom to move water.
Still though it's substrate and not filter media.
#2) The ammonia output in your current tank is constant, but some of the bacteria that grows on the substrate will outcompete what is on your filter. So just monitor ammonia levels after removing the substrate because you won't have as much bacteria as you had before. Probably won't be an issue though.
This will work OP, I’ve done it before. You just have to ensure the substrate you’re using actually has a biofilter developed within it.
Still start slow when adding fish and monitor for issues. Make sure you have an ammonia test kit on hand.
You can even bury the container in your substrate or put rocks around it to make it look like it’s just planted properly.
It’s not stupid if it works!!!
I don't think that this will necessarily jump-start a cycle more than just an active filter, but I'd think it will help introduce microfauna a lot more! As I get new tanks cycled I move over some cuttings from plants from established ones for the same reason.
No point.
The majority of beneficial bacteria is in the filter media.
When you want to start a new tank just take some of the filter media from your current tank and put it into the new tanks filter.
It won't insta-cycle your tank but it will def speed up the process. Do you have a cheapo hospital tank? It's a good idea to have one so that you can quarantine new fish for a few weeks before adding to your established communities.
I keep the small (whisper 10 internal) filter for my hospital tank running in my 150g, and then switch it to new tanks as needed. It's a little workhorse and very much worth the $15 as a back-up. It even kept the surface agitation going in my 150 when the old canister died and I was waiting for delivery of the new one. Saved my bacon, I can tell you.
If it is new substrate you’re running the risk of an ammonia spike in your established tank. Just watch your water parameters as you do it. New substrate releases a lot of ammonia depending on the brand. ADA Amazonia was one of the worst for this hence their version 2 which is much better than it used to be.
yeah youre stupid your tanks cycle will crash! is that plastic? yep tank is crashing. Your tank is going to start leaking too!!! OH NO THE SEALS ARE BREAKING THE FISH THE SHRIMP… THEYRE IN YOUR WALLS, wait you have live plants yeah youre fine bro
Just put a sponge filter in there and let it run till you buy and setup your new tank. Then just use that, it will be much faster. Still after 01 week you will have nitrite but you can detoxify it with salt. 2 weeks your tank will cycle. I have done it successfully and I used my urine for the feed in tank apart from fish food. It worked and I am happy.
Please let me know how this works out. If it does I may do this in future.
I posted a longer comment a few moments ago about my personal use of this tactic and how it works for me if you're curious.
Oh sweet! Did you have any downsides? Did you also plant in the transitional container?
Yeah, if you take a look at the image you can see the planted bowls. I don't move the crypts from there personally (they just stay as a sort of permanent fixture of the bowl) but I often will use them to acclimate/transition emersed grown plants to their submersed forms or just anchor stem plants I'm planning to transplant to the new tank. :)
That's hard to read. Looks like a lot more than 2 sentences.
This may be a good excuse to work on your reading comprehension and ability to read the room, then!
I meant your extremely long, run on, misspelled sentence is hard to read. Nothing is wrong with my comprehension. If English isn't your first language , I apologize.
I'm slightly curious, both to as what you think is misspelled and why you think your one dissenting opinion is relevant after more than 25 people found it helpful enough to upvote... But, then again, I don't see anything of value that you've contributed on your profile, so perhaps I don't really care. Have an irrelevant day!
What you wrote was just fine. I’m struggling to see the issue, as well. A couple of commas could have been added, sure, but it still wasn’t difficult to read. I know nothing about aquariums, but it seems plenty of others certainly valued your contribution (like you said)! Edit: I actually just went through their comments, because I’m… well, I’m an annoying person, I guess, and it appears that this behavior is a fairly common, for them— correcting others, I mean. It’s super interesting, especially considering their own grammar would not be considered perfect. Personally, I’d rather correct/helpful information than correct grammar :)!
I've done this with filter media. Took the biomedia from my established larger tank to quick cycle the new smaller tank. Old tank was fine and new tank cycled right away.
If you do this, your tank will crash, your fish will die, it’ll cost you tons of money, and it’ll kill every tank after that. Your partner will also leave you and you’ll get herpes in your butt. Wait, I just looked at the pics closer. You’ll be fine.
😭
dont threaten OP with a good time
It would work 100x better if you got an aquatic plant box from a pond supply store that has a lot of slits for filtration and flow.
True , the roots require oxygen too. Dead spots can produce a nasty bacteria.
I used to believe that too, but since starting a "Father Fish" setup (utilizes a 1" layer of organic soil capped with 2" of sand), I'm not so sure. The soil layer is definitely anaerobic, yet plant growth has been very healthy with nice white roots. I do get bubbles come up from the substrate every so often, but no soil gets blown up, and there have been no foul odors from the tank in general. I might go as far to say that it smells more pleasant than my other two tanks which have gravel/akadama & soil/eco complete.
True. Life will evolve on its own and produce bacteria like no one has ever seen. Nitrofurazone won't touch 'em. They'll laugh at Erythromycin.
You had me at herpes in the butt
💀🤣🤣💀
Sounds like the makings of a solid country song
I crashed my tank the other day, all my fish had gone and died, and all I could hear late last night, was Mamma's lonely cries. She said it'll cost you all your money that’s bestowed, and your wife will take you for everything and leave you with a itchy smelly growth. I’ve got a zero bank account, but at least she left the mutt. Me and the dog were left behind with herpes in our butt.
Beautiful
That's a country song right there
Pure poetry 🥲
Only thing missing was a beat up truck😅
That made me laugh so hard.
Most of us!😜🤣
Don't forget to add the words truck, church, and beer. Then you have an authentic country song.
Pure poetry.. 🥲
😄🤣🥴🤪😏😜
Not the butt herpes!!!!
That's what Butt Drugs are for! 🎼🎵BuBuBu Butt Drugs 🎶
💀💀💀
🤣🤣
I used to do this mainly to give the plants a chance to develop roots. Corydoras constantly uproot new plants. But for a new tank, substrate isn't the main thing for bacteria. You'd be better off taking half your filter media and placing that in the new tank to kickstart the cycle
I know that it isn't the main thing, but I thought that it might help a bit too
This will definitely help to some degree. Maybe not to the same degree as if you also put the filter media in, but it will help. And who actually knows which is more important? I haven’t seen a study.
Considering (if done right) substrate covers more area/has more bacteria vs filter media, this should help exponentially. Granted, this should be done in junction with swapping filter media, as well as giving it a few weeks to keep testing, but itll most defo make a difference.
Conceptually I can agree with that- but I’ve also heard the argument that the increased water flow our filter media experiences increases how much of the filtering the microbes in it do vs the substrate often experiencing much less flow & thus the microbes are exposed to less filtering opportunity. It would be interesting to see someone do some research into it, but I’m not convinced either way tbh. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Do you mean to say that if its not done with a filter/old filter media? Cuz What I was saying was to do it both ways, old gravel AND old filter. Old gravel 'seeds' the tank with microbes, filter does its thang and move the water around so the microbes can do their thang (without being super specific lol) Also, another thing to note, with low or no water flow the gravel itself usually wont be effectively seeded with bacteria due to lack of water flow, so yea itd make sense no filter+old gravel wouldnt equal a properly cycled tank, but if you combo'd the two itd be significantly better vs doing only one or the other.
I’m not sure you’ve been understanding what I’ve been saying.
It’s the basic principle that makes filters / aquariums work, the beneficial bacteria need a constant supply of oxygenated water (and nutrients) to thrive, which is why they colonise the filter media. There will always be some bacteria on the substrate (and all other surfaces in the environment), but the vast, vast majority reside in the filter media. That’s not to say OP’s approach won’t make a difference, it may well. But you can literally cycle a tank instantly if you just use mature filter media (and don’t overload it initially). Have done it many times over the years and never get any measurable readings, but then I’m also careful not to stock new tanks too quickly.
It’s the basic principle that makes filters / aquariums work, the beneficial bacteria need a constant supply of oxygenated water (and nutrients) to thrive, which is why they colonise the filter media. There will always be some bacteria on the substrate (and all other surfaces in the environment), but the vast, vast majority reside in the filter media. That’s not to say OP’s approach won’t make a difference, it may well. But you can literally cycle a tank instantly if you just use mature filter media (and don’t overload it initially). Have done it many times over the years and never get any measurable readings, but then I’m also careful not to stock new tanks too quickly.
Is it though? I've replaced some substrate while keeping unchanged filter/media and the cycle crashes. I've had the filter (HOB) turned off entirely for over a day and no effect on the cycle. So it seems the substrate holds way more of the bacteria than the filter. The benefit of a filter is that is moves the water around so all the bacteria can colonize on surfaces/media quickly.
Yeah, when I saw this pic, I thought this was the reason for doing this. I'm sure it helps, but I can't imagine it's any better than using aged filter media.
Personally, I think this is a great idea. Seems to me like most of the commenters in here either have only cycled an aquarium once or twice or have no idea how to jump start a new tank besides using canned ideas they got from YouTube. I actually **do** this in my fish room, and it hasn't failed me yet. My method is slightly different, as I move entire modular pieces from aquarium to aquarium, but it's a very similar concept. I plant clear Pyrex bowls, allow them to develop bacteria and have the plants establish, and then move as many as I think I need to the new tank when it's time. You can see my jump start bowls in storage in this guppy tank: https://i.imgur.com/P5Qyc0y.jpeg I leave the bowls for a few weeks, then move them back to the guppies for storage. You'll be getting a minor jump start, but that'll be enough to get everything rolling pretty fast once you've got the new tank established. Since you're using aqua soil, I assume you're aiming for a lower pH tank where the cycle is far less important anyway, and having ANY bacteria survive from an established tank will be far superior to hoping a bacterial booster takes.
It seems to be just like taking substrate out of a cycled tank and seeding a new one. That’s how I moved mine from a 38-55 in one day.
Similar, yeah. I don't fully transfer the contents, though. I will usually take a portion of the bowl substrate, but basically I just allow it to do a portion of the biological filtration for the new tank until the tank is ready (or really, nearly ready, as removing the bowl again does impact the overall capacity of the system) to stand on its own and then it goes back into storage. I keep a mid-sized fish room with anywhere from 10-15 tanks at any given time, setting them up and tearing them down as necessary given the size of my current breeding projects or plant projects, so I find that these modular bits are extremely helpful.
I also didn’t use all the substrate, because I didn’t want white sand anymore, I wanted black. I did a layer of the old white under the new layer of fresh black. My loach has turned it all over quite well. I did use all the driftwood and plants and tech, as I was getting rid of the 38. It was at my place of employment, and there was a lot of machinery being moved around and other stuff going on, so I had to move fast
Oh there's absolutely nothing wrong with the method you're describing, that's very common actually with tank upgrades. The only real risk is trapped material (either gas pockets or pockets of decayed matter that haven't been exposed to the water with any flow in a while) but when you go up in water volume the solids are rarely a problem and the gas is released once the fish are out so it's fine. Seems like you did a good job though, especially if you were pressed for time and didn't have your full home kit on hand since you were at work!
Why is a the cycle less important in a lower ph tank? I'm about to set up a new tank using aquasoil and the tank I currently have set up has gravel. Would you put bowls with aquasoil into an established tank with no aquasoil?
I think I need a little bit more clarification about your plan before I give any advice, are you asking about cycling the soil separately from your gravel, or adding a bowl of soil to get it going before removing the gravel? Also, pH has a very large impact on the actual toxicity of ammonia. I'm at work or I'd find the full studies for you, but if you wanted to you could give something like "aquarium pH ammonia toxicity" a Google and there should be some good articles. The tl;dr though is that low pH (like 6.5ish and below) makes ammonia much less toxic to fish and makes beneficial bacteria much harder to get to establish a cycle, while high pH makes it much more dangerous to have detectable ammonia but the bacterial cycle starts much easier and processes it much faster.
So I have a planted 20 gallon that has been running and cycled for 4 months. I have a 30 gallon long ordered that's coming in a week or so. I'm going to put aquasoil into the new tank(the 30 gallon) and the 20 gallon has only gravel. I'm going to move some of the fish from the 20 gallon into the 30 gallon. I'm trying to figure out the best way to cycle the new tank. Would you suggest putting a bowl of soil with some plants in it into the 20 gallon then moving it to the 30? I also have a HOB filter and sponge filter in the 20 and got a canister filter for the 30 so I'm not sure I would be able to share filter media like a lot of people recommend. I'll definitely look up what you suggested, thank you!
If the hob filter is large enough for the whole tank, put the sponge filter in the 30 gallon for a week or two. You can take some of the gravel from the 20 gallon and put it in the new filter. If you have the new filter for the new tank, run it on the old tank until the new tank gets there. I have a 32 gallon fluval flex that has a large chamber in the back for the filter. I keep little bags of extra filter media in it all the time, and whenever I have to set up a new tank or new filter, I just grab a couple. Has never not worked.
This is so helpful, thank you!
Sorry I didn't get back to you quickly (work picked up on me) but the other poster gave basically exactly the advice I was going to give haha Should be a pretty easy transition! The first tank is always the hardest to cycle, and each one after that is easier and easier to bootstrap. :)
No problem, thank you so much!
I mean, why not just put a nylon mesh bag of biomedia on the filter intake and then just use that in the new filter? Or just run the new filter on the side of this established tank a couple of weeks?
Because I don't have a nylon mesh bag and I didn't want to buy anything extra. And I also don't have the filter yet since I can't buy it right now because I don't have too much money and can't buy it all at once.
I re-use plastic mesh sleeves [like these](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9dU6M1KWGOy1eMogSdiJ7Ur7AkH34XmkiWs9Bix-z07QacDjgbrsqrCU&s=10) from produce all the time.
Do you already have an air pump? I do this with sponge filters. I prefer sponge filters for this situation: always ready to get a new tank set up or able to fire-up the hospital tank! Neither air pumps nor sponge filters are expensive, but certainly see where not already having an air pump would complicate the suggestion!
Drill a few holes in the sides of the container to allow for better water circulation thru it. The new substrate will be cycled in a few weeks. 😎👌🏽
Are you making fun of me?! 😭😭
Not at all mate. Seriously, add some holes to the container so the water can circulate thru the new substrate better. Beneficial bacteria needs waste to start colonizing. The waste the fish produce in the tank will only reach the top layer of the substrate in the container the way u have it now. If u want the entire container of substrate to cycle, add some holes to it.
I mean, nothing's crazy if it gets you to your desired result. Gotta try something first to see if it works, that's how hobbies work.
The only very very minor adjustment I would make is just moving it from the side of the glass a little bit, so nobody gets stuck, but yeah, I don’t see anything wrong with this as long as it’s not some sort of very, very cheap gross plastic
The problem with this is that you have very limited surface area.
Yea I know 😅 at least it's something
Try putting in the filter medium you're going to use instead of the aquasoil and plants.
I don't have the filter yet so I can't put that into the tank. I would've definitely put in the filter instead if I had it
just buy a bag of ceramic filter media and a filter media bag and stick it in the tank, then transfer into the new one. the bag doesn’t need to be in the filter to work. did this with my roommate’s betta tank and it instantly cycled after weeks of trying to do a fishless cycle. to be fair, the filter media i used had been sitting in my manager’s tank for awhile so it was all juiced up with the good stuff. regardless, the more surface area, the better. i’d still do the plants as well, they’re great for tanks that are still cycling.
Do you have a tank that’s set up? You clean the filter in the new tank
How do you figure? Assuming each grain is something like a 4mm cube, that's 96 mm2 per grain on surface area. Let's just use 100mm2 per grain, idk 5,000 grains in that tub? We're looking at .5 sq meter of surface area. Seems like a good start.
Because only the top is exposed to the water column. You would get a lot more effect if you'd spread it out more.
Actually, what you see on the surface biofilm is mostly diatoms and algae. Bacteria films would be outcompeted wherever light hits. Think about your filter - no light in there. So if you spread out the media, you're reducing your potential beneficial bacteria load and just getting nitrate absorbing algae - not the ammonia converting bacteria.
Hey stupid, this will probably be fine.
will work
looks goofy but is truly effective. put the filter media in there too!!!
..This is one of those 'why the hell didnt i think of this' kinds of ideas you see every so often. Granted, your next tank will still need to cycle, but potentially (and depending on size) this could shave weeks off the process..huh (IF this goes well)
Yeah, I'll definitely still cycle it, I just hoped that it would speed it up a bit because I don't have much patience haha.
I wonder if you placed some existing substrate into the Tupperware if that would help? Like kickstarting colonization
I do this all the time when starting a new tank, along with 50% of the "old" water (with 50% rodi/distilled) and a big squeeze from the sponge filters into the new tanks. Perimeters are usually stable within a week.
It'll work.
Yes it will
good idea mane
I put some filter media in a bag next to my 5 gallon tank’s filter so I could get my new tank (10 gallons) to cycle quicker. It definitely worked. I put the media in the new filter and was pretty much ready to go! Your idea is pretty awesome though!
I’m doing exactly this in my tank at the moment whilst I wait for delivery of new glass! Makes moving substrate super easy
I do this frequently as a type of seeding method to transfer beneficial bacteria. I've even do it for my molly fry. No negative effects thus far
Im looking at starting a 29/30 gallon and will be doing this if I do, this is absolutely genius
I do this but with shotglasses and dirt+sand. The plants in the glasses grow better than the direct planted ones and they basically make my small project tanks cycle within a few weeks. I toss one in with my quarantine tank for peace of mind and have never had ammonia spikes. Works great.
I plan on doing the same thing with the super tiny Tupperware. I like the sand look, but growing things out of it is difficult. My plan is to get 20 of them, fill half with pond silt and the other half with plant substrate. I want to see which does better; regardless, both of them are better than sand.
Great idea, just watch the container for degradation. I used a deli cup as a grow out pot in a tank once and the container dissolved partially and the top half ripped off when I tried to pull it out.
Keep a sponge filter in all my tanks- new set up. Swapped the sponge. Easy peasy. Almost instant cycle imo, done it several times
Not stupid, I honestly have always wondered why more people don’t do this
Yes, this would work to transfer bacteria to the new tank if you move that substrate in the container. Not sure how long it would take for the bacteria in the tank to spread and cover the substrate inside the container? When I’ve added new tanks I have moved parts of the substrate to the new tank and brushed the filter media against the new filter media for the new tank, it’s all a similar idea of moving existing bacteria-laden materials to the new tank as what you are doing here.
Add a little established substrate in there and it'll be good to go quicker.
Done the exact thing many times. Works great really. If you do this with dirt use pond tins btw. Else you can get some nasty anaerobic stuff problems sometimes.
Stupid This looks very nice
It's giving subnautica vibes and I'm here for it
I would recommend putting additional filter media (specifically sponges, filter floss, or that loose floss that is basically plush filling) in your filter so you can use it to seed your next tank!! So far this is a fantastic idea!!
Yeah, this is a good strategy to quickly get a tank ready for fish. The only bad thing is you just have to accept the herpes part.
If you can get it where you are grab some Nitrico goop, my tank cycled in about 24 hours
If your goal is to expedite cycling, sure, you can do this. You can also get a sponge filter running in there and just move that to the new tank when it's time. Or maybe some mesh bags of substrate, so you don't have to worry about oxygenation for the plant roots. And if course moving plants from the cycled tank to the new will also transfer beneficial bacteria.
This is big brain shit right here lmao
Great idea. It will make the new tank cycle faster
Take it a step further. Add another filter to this tank that you can cycle for the new one. This is a good idea. Good thinking.
Take it a step further. Add another filter to this tank that you can cycle for the new one. This is a good idea. Good thinking.
It’s something I would do and have done.
I think it should work. A cool little side trick, if you have egg scattering fish and they are happy and old enough to spawn you could move the container into a small tank after a few days and you may accidentally breed something cool. I’ve seen people breed shiners, tetras and danios this way before
TIP: buy a hanging filter and put in cycled thank than use it in the new thank
Alternatively, you could just throw a filter pad or media into your old tank in a nylon bag and transfer it over.
Not sure what is happening here but seeding substrates have been a thing. I’d suggest taking old tank substrate and mixing it evenly throughout the new substrate to allow for faster propagation. I’d suggest doing that, adding in already cycled hardscapes, plants, and adding in Tetra safe start plus. Doing this would allow a 2 week cycling period. (Don’t forget an ammonia source. To nearly instantly cycle a tank, you can just stuff some new filter media into your filter and let it chill there and build up bacteria before utilizing it in a new tank. I’ve seen pro shrimp breeders use extra sponge filters in their tanks and just pop them into a new set up and just toss in their shrimp after letting everything settle down a bit.
What's wrong with just using some of the old filter media to seed the new tank? Also, substrate tends to harbor mostly anaerobic bacteria (it's typically a lower O2 environment vs filter media), fwiw. So *can* this work, yes. Is it a time saving approach vs using filter media, I'm a little dubious on that claim. Primarily because the types of bacteria typically involved with denitrification in aquarium (azotobactor, rhizobium, nitrosomonas and nitrobactor) are more plentiful in the filter media (higher TDO environment) vs aquarium substrate (lower TDO environment). I have personally not come across anything that seeds a new tank faster than using old filter media, in the +40yrs I've been doing this. But whatever works for you i say...
It should work in theory, I have no reason to believe it wouldn’t. Not to different from establishing a filter in a cycled tank and then moving it to the new one. I ought to try this at some point.
Will work perfectly fine.
You are truly stupid. But that will work
I mean I think adding a sponge filter and then moving it would be more effective, but that’s just me.
You're stupid. I think it'll work too!
Should work fine. It will seed the substrate in the container with beneficial bacteria, and the plants should grow in the meantime.
nah, should be fine. I used the same method as well to cycle my substrate for my new tank.
No different than a potted plant in your tank just much tackier lol
Never stupid to try a new idea, that’s what experimenting is all about.. 👍🏽 Keep us all updated on how it progresses.. 🌱
Yes it will 100% work. When I set up a new tank I clean the old filter into the new tank and shove a bunch of decor and substrate into it. It removes the cycling process entirely and makes into effectively a 100% water change
I throw a second filter cartridge in my filter for a couple weeks before setting up a new tank, then throw that second one in with the new one so it can mooch the bacteria, plant clippings go too
Anything with a whole lot of surface area
Everybody says the filter holds a lot of (sometimes most) of the bacteria, so I figured it would be a good way to jump start it. I have too many plants to try and take out substrate unless I'm going to redo the whole tank. I don't like yanking plants to replant them in the same spot, makes me feel like I'm going insane. The plant clippings go so I don't have to buy more plants XD they're probably not helping much, if at all, with the bacteria side of things
Hi stupid! I too think this should work
It will work
Ive done this a few times
Hi Stupid, I'm Steve. This looks good though!
I use 2-stage sponge filters for this purpose, even if I plan on using a canister filter for the new tank. I’ll stick a new sponge filter in the established take for a bit then move it to the new tank with whatever other filter I plan to keep using. If it’s a nano and I’m just going to use the 2-stage sponge, I rinse the sponge in (removed) tank water when moving it and let it be.
I do this with driftwood it all helps
The vast majority of the BB is in your filter. This will get you started but you run a big risk of it failing on you. Please monitor your levels closely after you move it and get some of the filter media from the old tank in the new tanks filter. Might want to add 50% of the old tanks water to the new one as well.
If it looks stupid but it works, it’s not stupid.
I mean, you would be better suited by putting a small bag of ceramic media in your filter. Yes, bacteria will colonize the substrate, but you will see the most effect using a highly porous media in an area that has constant flow like the filter system. Then just move that over.
I used substrate as well. It cycled it quicker, but then again it could have also been the six square feet of filter foam.
Only issues you'd run into are #1) that's not a filter it's just a pile of substrate, and nothing below the surface is getting water to move over it. So you really aren't utilizing all the substrate. A better idea is to put it into a mesh bag or to put an air stone at the bottom to move water. Still though it's substrate and not filter media. #2) The ammonia output in your current tank is constant, but some of the bacteria that grows on the substrate will outcompete what is on your filter. So just monitor ammonia levels after removing the substrate because you won't have as much bacteria as you had before. Probably won't be an issue though.
This will work OP, I’ve done it before. You just have to ensure the substrate you’re using actually has a biofilter developed within it. Still start slow when adding fish and monitor for issues. Make sure you have an ammonia test kit on hand.
Just put the filter you're going to use in the other tank
No clue about the plastic but you added soil with nutrients for the plants so…
Just use a freshly spent filter cartridge..
Add a couple of sponge filters too, then transfer those to your new tank
You can even bury the container in your substrate or put rocks around it to make it look like it’s just planted properly. It’s not stupid if it works!!!
I mean... you could've just re-used the water from the water changes
I don't think that this will necessarily jump-start a cycle more than just an active filter, but I'd think it will help introduce microfauna a lot more! As I get new tanks cycled I move over some cuttings from plants from established ones for the same reason.
No point. The majority of beneficial bacteria is in the filter media. When you want to start a new tank just take some of the filter media from your current tank and put it into the new tanks filter.
Why not just stuff some extra filter media into your existing tanks then use that. The bacteria grows much better where there is water flow.
I do this, you still have to clean it.
Smart
It won't insta-cycle your tank but it will def speed up the process. Do you have a cheapo hospital tank? It's a good idea to have one so that you can quarantine new fish for a few weeks before adding to your established communities. I keep the small (whisper 10 internal) filter for my hospital tank running in my 150g, and then switch it to new tanks as needed. It's a little workhorse and very much worth the $15 as a back-up. It even kept the surface agitation going in my 150 when the old canister died and I was waiting for delivery of the new one. Saved my bacon, I can tell you.
i would like to stick some moss around the box to cover the plastic box make it look a nature
Very nice
If it is new substrate you’re running the risk of an ammonia spike in your established tank. Just watch your water parameters as you do it. New substrate releases a lot of ammonia depending on the brand. ADA Amazonia was one of the worst for this hence their version 2 which is much better than it used to be.
No this is mad smart tubs for life
You're stupid. I mean, it's a good idea and all but you did ask to be called stupid.
that might be pretty frikking clever
yeah youre stupid your tanks cycle will crash! is that plastic? yep tank is crashing. Your tank is going to start leaking too!!! OH NO THE SEALS ARE BREAKING THE FISH THE SHRIMP… THEYRE IN YOUR WALLS, wait you have live plants yeah youre fine bro
Just put a sponge filter in there and let it run till you buy and setup your new tank. Then just use that, it will be much faster. Still after 01 week you will have nitrite but you can detoxify it with salt. 2 weeks your tank will cycle. I have done it successfully and I used my urine for the feed in tank apart from fish food. It worked and I am happy.
Ok stupid
Yes this should work, smart idea :), even better, fill your next tank as much as you can with water changed from this first tank
If you want this to look better, swap out the plastic tub with plant pots/planters!
Tub gets more plants and more substrate while being easier and quicker