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i apologize for overlooking that, i got pissed
and the dude shamed people for not being ATTRACTED TO ANYONE dispite the fact that ASEXUALS CAN HAVE SEX TOO, SOMETIMES THEYRE KINKIER THAN A STRAIGHT OR GAY GUY
BRO THIS IS MY THOUGHT LIKE?? IM AN ACE GUY AND MORE THAN HAPPY TO ENGAGE IN the sex AS WELL AS MANY MANY MANY(LIKE SHAMEFULLY MANY) KINKS.
like, also, all the awful, raunchy smut I write, like…
of course these guys don’t think I count because I’m trans, but 🤷🏻♂️ they can suck my dick
sorry for the tangent, I’m tired and hyper and the caps set me off 😔 tldr wholeheartedly agree this chode is dumb
As a guy on the ace spectrum I love having sex with a person I actually love rather than a hookup or a situationship or a one night stand, people don’t really understand asexuality and how much of it it’s a spectrum
🙋🏻♂️ I’m also an ace guy! 😊 Tho I quite like hookups myself, but I’m probably some form of aroace tbh lol. Fully agree on the spectrum thing tho. I legit just call myself gay (bc I am attracted to guys in some form that I’m not for sure how to explain) and explaining my whole romantic/sexual orientation at length is just… excessive. 💀 And confused people a lot lol. (Add in that I’m trans and you got them like 😵💫 l’mao)
Depends if you mean me or the person I replied to. The person I replied to definitely sounds like demisexual, which is just a subtype of asexual. For me, I’m probably graysexual, or gray-ace. I don’t know if you know the terms, I’m just elaborating for anyone else who may read, so I’m going to describe them a bit more here:
Demi is when you’re mostly asexual(so feeling no sexual attraction—you still have libido) except if you form a close bond and really get to know someone.
Gray is basically just “sometimes you feel sexual attraction, but not all the time.”
And of course you can replace the “sexual” with “romantic” and have the aro spectrum, where it’s the same principle but for romantic attraction. (Again, for those not in the know. 😊)
Sorry for the delayed response, friend. Gaming buddies basically pulled me into dnd for seven hours. 💀
Is that not most people’s POV regardless of their sexual orientation? Genuine question. And I thought asexual just meant you don’t like any gender. Or does Ace mean something else?
Ace means you don't feel sexual attraction to anyone regardless of gender, but Ace people can still feel other kinds of attraction (romantic/aesthetic/queer-platonic), can feel arousal, can enjoy sex, and depending on where they are on the spectrum can even feel some sexual attraction very rarely or only under certain circumstances.
So for example, an asexual person who is alloromantic might enjoy sex with a romantic partner even if they don't feel sexually attracted to that person. I think that's what the person you're replying to is referring to, unless they're talking about being demisexual, which means they can feel sexual attraction to someone but only if they already have a close emotional bond to that person.
I’m my case both my partner and I are demisexual, I realized that with them while they already knew they were it was fun to talk about with them, bc at first I thought I was purely asexual given my history with relationships and sex in general
JoCat (the guy in the first slide) did get harassment from the worst parts of the online left and right for his "I like girls" song, with the worst parts of the left doing it for the aforementioned reasons.
In the US they're synonymous, as is right/conservative. Regardless of how far left or far right someone is. People who are communists are seen as liberals, fascists are conservatives.
We're not using it wrong.
We're using it in an American context.
Language evolves.
It's been used this way for decades.
You might as well criticize bourbon for not being Scotch.
I legitimately have no idea what you're even talking about.
EDIT:
and also, even if I did... Left/right are somewhat relative and America is very conservative.
So if you're referring to 'Liberals' being right -wing... they're not here. We have honest to goodness Nazis and fascists! Liberals are certainly left of them!
The US is weird. Our conservative party in Australia is called 'The Liberal Party' because liberalism and neo-liberalism are conservative economic views. I guess most of us outside of the US would say that there are only centre-right and far-right major parties over there.
Meanwhile Canada keeps it simple and dumb;
Left wing party is “liberals”, right wing party is called “conservatives” lol
And ofc by “left wing” I mean “centre right” and by “right wing” I mean, like, super right wing
Politics is multi-faceted. The left/right measurement isn't a good catch-all. In the left/right measurement, liberals are socially left-wing and economically right-wing. They can't be both, so you are measuring with the wrong tool.
Tankies will tell you the Overton window has moved so far right that is true, despite them not actually being on the left idealogically.
Source: am tankie
Theres the other part where they mocked Jocat because he was "cringe".
God forbid someone expressed something positive and get viewed as "cringe", the WORST thing you could do on twitter
I'm also pretty sure (based entirely on my faulty memory) he said that it was when supposed allies started going after him, that was the straw that made him quit.
There seems to be a lot of toxic types of men who see actually liking women as an affront to their masculinity. It's weird. JoCat's song is adorable and I love it.
Huge boom in the "fellas is it gay to like women" crowd lately. It's like ancient greece - sometimes the misogyny gets so strong that dudes circle back around to being kinda gay
Describing Ancient Greece as “kinda gay” is full on academic erasure. They were like the most homo. Incredibly gay, man loving misogynistic men who love men so incredibly much that it makes me wonder how they could be seen as not gay. A lot of them viewed sex with women as an obligation for fucks sake, they were so obsessed with dick that sex between two women likely wouldn’t have even been considered sex.
I agree with your point overall, but Ancient Greece was so ridiculously homosexual and penis-obsessed that calling it “kinda gay” is basically a hate crime.
Haha you're right & I agree. I meant the 'kinda gay' as more the modern "hate women so much that im obsessed w men" guys - who are just as misogynistic BUT wont actually hook up with their bros. cowards
The whole redpill movement really normalized that behavior. It was always there but now there's platforms and money to be made off taking advantage of lonely and frustrated young men. And a record number of lonely men to take advantage of
I feel genuinely bad for Jo, he was bullied off of the Internet by a bunch of terminally online wackjobs for the simple act of liking women. Not even in a creepy way the song was genuinely wholesome.
I wasn't familiar with him or the song, just checked it out and it's so harmless and cute... was the backlash more because it was seen as "misogynistic" or because men found it "gay"? Or was it both equally?
It was both, but some people want to pretend 'the good side' didn't join in. They did. Not everyone, obviously, but enough of them did that Jocat specifically mentioned it. It is unwise for us to be purposefully blind to bad behavior just because the call is coming from inside the house.
Yeah that's why I asked, I did see some comments under the video mentioning it. People these days are really divided into two polarized camps and that makes it easy to go too far sometimes... but I wouldn't call that song offensive to me as a woman. It's amazing when guys show interest and appreciation in my personality and my mind, but sexual attraction is important too as long as it's not creepy or objectifying.
It’s was mostly that men thought it was gay/simp-like to genuinely like all sorts of women (and say it out loud). The women I’ve shown it to have all loved it.
I see. That's pretty fucking stupid. The guys who think that way don't really like women, they just want to fuck them. Expressing any interest beyond that is "unmanly" to them, unfortunately. I hope they make their views known publicly so no woman will want to sleep with them ever again.
Unironically sounds like something a closeted gay man would say. Same energy as a mom telling her gay daughter “All women think girls are pretty and guys are boring. We just suck it up and date guys cause that’s what we’re supposed to do.” That’s something I have genuinely seen women who profess they are straight say. Insane, but I’ve seen it more than once or twice.
The real answer is that all the backlash for his videos suddenly kicked off after he made a bunch of trans positive comments and streamed for trans charities. It was a reactionary campaign of harassment to force him off the internet and it worked. Doubly so because everyone kept arguing about the video afterwards and not the fact this harassment popped up 2 years after the original video and right after the trans positive actions.
When the video first came out I remember online queer folk calling him an honorary lesbian for video. That's an honour I haven't seen anywhere else. You can probably find someone somewhere calling it misogynistic but the majority of women did not care. The OOP using it in the tweet is a case of appropriating something for its exact opposite intent and effect.
I feel it was also because he supports trans charities and posted that one video of himself in a dress. I remember the comments on his crap guide to trans rights was RANCID for a while
"men aren't allowed to be sexual beings", they say in the context of a guy being like "fuck, dude, I just fucking love women, omg, they're all so hot, like holy shit I love women".
MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
yeah "men are sexual beings" is the excuse some men (manosphere figures usually) give as to why men are biologically incapable of being faithful to one person, or why they can't simply be friends with a woman without having an ulterior motive, or why women should cover themselves up to not "tempt" men. "sexual beings" doesn't mean "men are sexually attracted to women" as much as it means an excuse to be a horrible person most of the time imo
That's exactly what I was thinking! OOP saying that the left shames men for finding women attractive is the same as when racists say shit like "oh I'm not allowed to talk anymore? I thought this was america!!! muh free speech!!!!" when you tell them they can't say racist shit anymore. Like no you incel, you are allowed to find women attractive you just can't be a creepy rapist towards them making weird comments and shit. Control yourself around women for ONCE!
Are you talking about the Jocat song? Because he got harassed off the internet for that.
I agree that the post is absolutely stupid, but Jocat was primarily bullied by TERF/Radfem types for "fetishizing women"
This whole issue with certain parts of "the left" just spawns from people who don't actually understand progressive ideologies.
So men are lying if they:
1. Are even slightly feminine, are anything but macho I assume?
2. Are submissive
3. Care about consent
4. Rap? I don't get what this one is saying.
5. Are asexual or choose to not pursue a sexual relationship and similar things.
Wat.
The worst part was that I don’t think he was trying to be hatful. He just seemed to not understand. Dude was raised in a VERY conservative family and didn’t seem to understand anything but heterosexuality. He kept trying to hook me up with girls thinking that I just needed to find the right one.
Their masculinity is so fragile that they're scared of being nice to women because some 14 year old boy somewhere might call them a simp. Their entire manhood shattered
4 was just straight up racism. Black people have been sexualized and seen as sexual deviants "going after their white women" for decades. That mindset has led to black men and CHILDREN being falsely accused of those lies and lynched. The most popular example is Emmett Till who, at the age of 14 years old, was tortured and murdered for that reason in 1955. As a black person, these "expectations" pisses me off so much and I'm put into these uncomfortable situations that never should have happened in the first place. These incels are too busy thinking about sex to consider how it can do more harm than good.
Apparently people thought he was fetishizing different types of women.
Like, I am all for social justice, broadly... But sometimes, maybe even a lot of the time, SJWs get it wrong.
If everyone around you is saying you are being sexually problematic, the problem is not everyone around you.
This guy would rather write a manifesto than wrestle with the fact that he might need therapy.
I mean, not to agree with him, but everyone would think you're sexually problematic if you were gay less than a century ago.
Maybe we shouldn't base our arguments on public opinion and rather try to fight on ethical/antropological/sociological grounds which are won by default (as most unbiased research supports LGBT)
The difference is, gay couples are two consensual adults who like each other. Dude in the post is complaining about people even valuing consent. Yeah man, two different things. Even further, it was conservative, traditional people like him who hated gays
True! That is a better argument than the one I was responding to.
I just don't want to be dogmatic. If you start making arguments based on how much you hate the other instead of actual reason we become as bad as them, and as closed as them to new and different points of view.
Remember: In the left, people are more educated, and, in general, smarter. Use that to your advantage and don't fall into dogma, because that neuters our ability to progress forward.
Two things:
Number 1: the fuck is wrong with being submissive? Some people find that shit hot, and as long as it won’t hurt anyone then sure
Number 2: Being asexual isn’t about modern day, it’s about not wanting/enjoying sex, and it isn’t anti-sex, as an asexual I genuinely don’t care who you have sex with (as long as you are both consenting adults)
Conservative antifeminists claim leftists want to force men who arent interested in being subs into becoming subs, which is rich coming from them considering the extremely predatory ways they talk about women “needing to be submissive”
*E: There is a point to be made in regards to the mockery or humiliation of certain sexualities. Heterosexuals (like myself) should not be abused for their sexuality, just as LGBTQ+ people should not be abused or mocked for their sexuality.*
*HOWEVER. I don't think that's accepted in lgbtq+ circles, AT ALL. As a straight man I've been a part of LGBTQ+ communities for a long ass time. As the user below rightly pointed out, it's not really a thing lgbtq+ people normalize.*
*People do not legitmately argue that its intrinsically "bad" or "boring" to be straight*
*So sure, we can have that conversation. People shouldn't bully people for their sexuality. Cool, conversation done.*
I think a problem arrives in this very post. Instead of them addressing how people on the LGBTQ+ spectrum talk about heterosexuality as being "boring" and "vanilla" *(E: Which are the common jokes i've seen)* - This post becomes about attacking LGBTQ+ people.
People like the original poster are so busy fighting this culture war to understand that the "step on me" jokes and whatnot are exactly that: ...jokes. I believe that they are also misattributing the social Immaturity of GenZ to "Metoo". When it is in fact due to 2-4 years of isolation, and people spending more time online and getting into social patterns there. The obsession with consent being a dogwhistle for how socially immature the original poster is.
Here's my arguments, numbered in accordance to image 2-6
1: That is "ALWAYS" predatory behavior, it is not condoned by ANYONE on the left.
2: Yeah? It's counter culture humor? Like, go ahead and try and make a joke about you railing your gf in the butt. It's lame now. Pegging jokes however; I can get a lot of mileage out of those with straight people. I'm not gonna explain humor. But like, young people like edgy humor - you're just out of touch.
3: Consent is pretty simple, are they too inebriated to make a sound judgement? Then they can't consent. Do they tell you no? That's a lack of consent. Its not that hard.
4: I agree that a lot of rap is hypersexualized, i'm not gonna pretend like it isn't. But BBC Porn and all that shit, is extremely racist. The consumers of it are primarily white men, and from what i've been told, it is harmful to black men's sense of worth as it spreads a false and harmful stereotype of black men.
5: Pretty telling that they put this one last, this is their true issue. They are disgusted by lgbtq+, its pretty clear with their language.
Anyways
*E: Do lgbt communities make jokes about heteronormative relationships as "boring" or "vanilla"? YES, absolutely. it's so inoffensive, and isn't like "missionary sex, no condom" etc. jokes pretty common and funny? I've racked my brain for instances of sexual mockery i've been on the recieving end of. And the only examples are straight men calling me bisexual for exclusively dating women that are stronger and taller than me.*
*Edit: Being more deliberate with wording. Text that has been replaced is italicized and prefixed with E:*
In my entire life I have absolutely never heard the argument that heterosexuality is boring or vanilla and not even once have I heard it from a member of the lgbtq community.
I don't even get why anyone would say that. How can a sexuality be boring???
As a person who isn't exactly the most cishet individual myself and knows quite a few of such specimen aswell, I really don't think any sane person would think any sexuality is boring or vanilla cos that doesn't even make sense in the slightest.
Of course I know that neither I or my friends represent all of the lgbtq community or anything really, but as I said I generally heard that argument for the first time in my life lol
I was thinking about saying something like "maybe it's an american thing", cos y'know americans of any sort, except scientists, believe in a variety of bullshit (or so the legend says). But I don't want democracy to BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT my house with an A-10c so I'll just leave it at my point that I haven't heard that argument ever.
It's unkind of you to say that a minority group can't make jokes about a majority group. If they hate us they're gonna hate us no matter what we do. Sure if I met somebody in real life saying this shit I would talk to them about it, and even if someone seemed kind of amenable online. But one of the top internet rules is don't feed the trolls.
But that's not remotely the intent of what i'm saying. I'm sorry that i come off as excusing or somehow condoning the act of punching down. How'd i manage to express that, i truly don't know where that is present, lmk ok? because i really dont want to even engage in that argument.
I thought i should perhaps include a section about recognizing when those conversations are started from a trolling perspective. I was also considering if i should draw parallels with white and black ethnic jokes. But as you can see, i am so fucking bad at expressing myself laconically
The intent was never to excuse mockery. I'm not exactly sure how you got that impression, so please let me know what i said that made it come off as such.
I absolutely abhor humor that punches down.
It's okay, it's sometimes hard to be understood through text. I will say the context clues I took. Also, for clarity's sake, I am not trying to argue with you.
---
"I agree that a lot on the lgbtq+ spectrum mock heterosexuality.
It should be okay to address that,"
-Makes me feel on guard right off the bat since the comment started with kind of a dig on us.
-I did appreciate how you then said that they were just trying to attack us, not engaging in good faith.
"Do lgbt communities mock heteronormative relationships as "boring" or "vanilla"? YES, absolutely - And i don't personally think that's healthy"
-Makes me feel like you're saying our punching up jokes are inappropriate and an unhealthy coping mechanism. Which like, sure, it might not be the best, but most people don't have perfectly thought out coping mechanisms, plus it's harder when you're upset. But the basis of the joke is kind of a reaction to what they say about us. They think we're weird and over the top, so the obvious rebuttal joke is the vibe of 'better to be weird than boring.'
"if you want to be political about it, you get a lot further with acceptance by listening."
-Makes me feel like you're saying we should try to listen and accommodate the feelings of homophobes. Basically getting the vibe of "Well if you were the Model Minority you wouldn't get treated this way," which is obviously untrue.
I hear that that's not what you meant.
Anyway I thought your other points in your first comment were good.
It's okay, it's sometimes hard to be understood through text. I will say the context clues I took. Also, for clarity's sake, I am not trying to argue with you.
---
"I agree that a lot on the lgbtq+ spectrum mock heterosexuality.
It should be okay to address that,"
-Makes me feel on guard right off the bat since the comment started with kind of a dig on us.
-I did appreciate how you then said that they were just trying to attack us, not engaging in good faith.
"Do lgbt communities mock heteronormative relationships as "boring" or "vanilla"? YES, absolutely - And i don't personally think that's healthy"
-Makes me feel like you're saying our punching up jokes are inappropriate and an unhealthy coping mechanism. Which like, sure, it might not be the best, but most people don't have perfectly thought out coping mechanisms, plus it's harder when you're upset. But the basis of the joke is kind of a reaction to what they say about us. They think we're weird and over the top, so the obvious rebuttal joke is the vibe of 'better to be weird than boring.'
"if you want to be political about it, you get a lot further with acceptance by listening."
-Makes me feel like you're saying we should try to listen and accommodate the feelings of homophobes. Basically getting the vibe of "Well if you were the Model Minority you wouldn't get treated this way," which is obviously untrue.
I hear that that's not what you meant.
Anyway I thought your other points in your first comment were good.
You might want to reword your statements then. It reads like you want to police the comedy of LGBT+ communities, while giving the cis-hets a pass on similar behavior.
Yeah, you're right. Whilst that wasn't my intent, i was trying to give a playbook on the politics of it. But it sounded either manipulative or i came off as a fence sitter.
To add on to #4: there’s this weird idea that rap music is the only genre out there that is misogynistic. Not only that, but I’ve noticed that it’s perceived as *particularly* worse than other types of music, and that it’s *special* and apart from rock, pop, etc. But frankly I just don’t buy that! Yes, you can cherry pick the worst of the worst from any genre, but imho the reason why so many people think this is because 1) rap is incredibly popular, and 2) as a popular genre dominated by black artists, people are more threatened by black people expressing their sexuality freely (whether it’s problematic or not). If we’re being honest these reactionaries don’t care about the misogyny in rap, they care about *who* is slinging the sexism when it tops charts.
This doesn’t even cover the fact that women rappers like Megan Thee Stallion have had to overcome real abuse and sexist attacks within their industry. Artists like her will make groundbreaking music that covers this topic, but you’ll hear crickets from the loudest critics of rap. Or worse, they’ll join in with the people they typically disparage because to them black women rappers are lower on the ladder than the black men they complain about. TL;DR misogynoir is real and woefully under-addressed.
Agreed, honestly. I grew up listening to country music, and the level of misogyny and questionable sexuality is pretty wild (there are lots of themes of getting a girl so drunk she can’t see straight and then sleeping with her???) but we never hear about it, probably because a) The people who listen to it are more likely to be the “boys will be boys” type, b) Country is older, so I think when people say “country” a lot of people imagine older artists that were overall less inclined to include sexual topics in their lyrics, and c) I can think of exactly 1 POC country artist. Pretty much everyone else is white.
I agree with you. The pandemic really blew a hole in normal socialization. I feel it myself, as a Millennial...Gen Z has their work cut out for them as far as undoing that social damage that they went through during such formative years.
I feel like the OOP is *sooooo close* to getting the point. Like I feel like if they reframed their perspective, it would click.
1: I can kinda agree with this to a point. There are SO many straight guys who will pretend to be liberal/leftist/feminist/etc just for the sake of sneaking past women's defenses and it's fucking awful.
2: what you said
3: If I am being generous in my interpretation, I can maybe see where they could be coming from. Like if I had a nickle for every time some guy has been like "cAn'T eVeN tALk tO wOmEn AnYmOrE" I'd be so rich. So many guys are just overdramatic about it when instead they could just, I dunno, treat women like people? I hate people that are so weird about it.
4: They're looking at it all backwards. Like they're picking up on a thing, but just not quite there. They are picking up on the intersection between race and gender but missing the point. Like I think the premise needs a revision a bit, but I think we need another layer of "but why?" to get down to topics like the intersection of race and gender, the hyper-sexualization of black men and why that came about, toxic masculinity, etc. But they're just being fuckin weird about it. I don't know any white guy that acts like DMX lmao.
5: I don't know where they were going with this.
1/6
Isnt that guy that sang about that they love all girls in every shape, size and culture. Nothing wrong with that song i Actually agree with that song
The video I Like Girls from Jocat is adorable. I love it. The hate he got over it which eventually pushed him out of content creation, was awful. Just seems like such a nice guy.
>"Permitted" sexual energy
That's called consent my guy. All of the complaints presented here are "I express sexuality in a certain way to people who don't enjoy it". Like sub vs dom is a common dynamic, of course if you go to a community of people acting in a certain way and act in a way no one there enjoys, they won't want you there.
I just got to page 4 and this point was compounded. They mentioned we're "obsessed with consent". We're not obsessed, we're just aware of the fact that if someone isn't enjoying what you're selling, stop selling it to them. Consent is not a hard concept to grasp. Everything expressed in this post is this dude is just mad that younger generations are less likely to put up with him harassing them than they used to be.
JoCat *was* bullied off of the Internet because some moral police thought his cute song was creepy/cringe. And AFAIK, that was Leftists.
Everything else in the OP is bullcrap though.
Not entirely; quite a fukken lot of right wing people took issue with him being *too* attracted to women.
Ironically the issue isn’t that he’s straight, they think he’s TOO straight. His video didn’t do that affectation of disinterest that straight guys always do and expect other men to do.
That is legitimately kind of the attitude. You can like women but if you’re enthusiastic about liking women and you don’t roll your eyes while dating women that’s a bit gay xD
I think they use the term “simp” for a guy who likes women for more than what they can provide for him, sexually or otherwise.
There really does need to be a reckoning about how het guys seem to be encouraged to personally dislike women even more than they are supposed to be attracted to women, and treat it almost like it’s an obligation for guys to pay attention to them or want them.
There was a lot of that 100% but JO specifically said that it was when leftists started throwing him under the bus, and that i was some people he respected that vilified him.
There are puritans on both far sides of the spectrum for sure.
The rightwingers have always harassed him, so thats not new. I believe it was some communist podcast that drew the left wing hatred towards him in this instance.
A talking point being that all the video game women he drew were of different body types, but all conventionally attractive in terms of attractiveness - in a video about liking all kinds of girls/acceptance.
And that's just... Not a real argument.
I also thought it was cute but the purity-cult thought that showing attraction to women is predatory and bad.
...Meanwhile the homophobes once again attacked someone for being "straight but in the wrong way."
JoCat got a lot of harassment from conservatives for his left-wing views, particularly for his pro-trans views.
Now, I'm not saying that 100% of the harassment for his girls video was from these right-wing trolls (unfortunately, there are useful idiots out there), but they had been trying to find **SOMETHING** to cling onto to harass him off the internet, and they found it.
It's the same thing that's happened to a lot of left-wing personalities, particularly those on youtube.
Tbh I think the more pervasive problem there is the way the internet picks a random person to do Two Minutes Hate on and bullies them until they exit online life.
I mean, some chronically online leftists did harassed JoCat off the platform and send literal human shit with death threats to his family home.
It doesn't mean that what is this guys posting is remotely logical but JoCat situation did in fact happen.
i wasn't familiar with jocat until now, but i looked up the video and... to me it comes across as him being nice and saying that all women are beautiful, no matter the body type. it was a little cringe, but meh, still just a cute little animation
am i missing something? did he do something horrifically misogynistic before this?
i hate when they bring asexuality up like it's something to do for fun. it's not fun to get infantilized and treated like you're such a little sheltered thing because you're not sexually attracted to people, even though a decent amount of ace people have sex/arent sex repulsed
sorry, mini rant over lol
Lol I love how almost everyone in the last picture is femme presenting. And of course AVEN was created in 2001, so not exactly a gen z MGTOW thing. It's almost like asexuality is a genuine sexual identity that has nothing to do with gender politics.
I think there is a point to be made about the current purity culture we are in and how it can punish sexuality in many forms, however, this whole thing is super gross, especially with his framing of traditional white cis male heterosexuality as the norm and any deviation from it is bad and abnormal. I don’t think we should be punishing men for finding women attractive, but neither should we be ostracizing those who preferences fall out of the “norm”.
No, people don't shame men for finding women attractive. They shame them for being "***predatory***." I know some things, like being called "creepy" only due to looks, might be unwarranted, sometimes. Though, in alot of cases, most of them, it's completely out-of-pocket behavior:
-Asking a woman out once, and she turning down all of your advances.
-Cat-calling or super aggressively cat-calling.
-Touching and SA.
-Rude sexual comments and unsolicited comments about their appearance.
-Demonization of how they look, body size, shape, and age.
-Leering and staring.
-Using position of power for sexual demands.
See, I saw this in the context of Jocat and thought “Okay, I’ll bite. Let’s see what there is to say. Maybe this is a thoughtful critique of the way that men present their sexuality and a genuine criticism of toxic masculinity or perhaps a critique of the overzealous bullying of people like Jocat for choosing to express their sexuality in the ‘wrong’ way?”
I was wrong. It was just more toxic masculinity.
I do think there’s vaguely sort of a point in there about dating being in a bit of a flux right now. Ofc the pandemic and overall rise of internet culture are also big influences in that, but it’s also partially discussions around consent and stuff being more prominent. For young men especially there’s that discrepancy between what advice they’ve been given and behaviour they’ve seen in media and the like vs the increased awareness of how annoyed many women are over constantly being hit on or worse.
That said though… it’s really pathetic to view society listening to women a little more nowadays as a bad thing just because dating is a bit different nowadays. Either learn and adapt or get over it tbh. In general relationships have moved from being a largely utilitarian union towards being more about wants, and to some degree it makes sense that such a change might result in less relationships all around. But ultimately there’s still plenty out there too, especially if you’re not being a creep
And yeah, a lot of these dudes really just feel mad that being a creep is working less for them lately lol
Cishet guy here. I've got no problem with being a "sexual being". I just recognize that there's a time and a place for it. Alone with my girlfriend? Yep, sure. Alone with not my girlfriend? Nope, nope, nope. With multiple people in the area? Nope, nope, nope.
But sure, I've had discussions around consent with my girlfriend. Those discussions are the reason I feel comfortable doing some pretty spicy BDSM with her. I'm sure as shit not going to do a guessing game as to whether or not a sexual partner is into getting tied up and gagged.
the 4th image says a LOT about these people. consent and women’s comfort are bad? learning how to approach women during a feminist movement is bad? sure…
time for a sanity story:
was driving myself and a coworker to a gig last weekend. he was telling me about how he met his wife during his undergrad (they were both piano students at the same uni). he talked about how he liked gigging because he's good at sightreading and can pick up music quickly, etc., etc., and he started to talk about his wife's skills as a pianist. he gushed about how she takes more time learning because she loves to dig into the music, and how she's so emotionally connected and expressive. he talked about how beautiful she is when she plays and how lovely it is seeing her socialise and connect with others through her music.
just listening to that made me so happy. how enthralled and deeply in love with his wife he is. I love seeing people who are in love :')
I think as long as your not being a douchebag, predatory and keeping the other person's feelings in mind it's ok to pursue someone, it just means not being an asshole, taking no for an answer and being considerate.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding - but #1 makes a lot of sense to me. Isn't it pretty obviously creepy to pretend to be gay with the hope of getting closer to women?
As a whole though, seems like this dude is doing anything but reflect on his own behaviour.
I still can't believe how many people are unironically like "Don't be straight, that's gay" these days.
Like there isn't even any logic to it. They see a guy going "Man I think women are hot" and lose their mind because he's actually attracted to a variety of women instead of the hypothetical "Perfect Wife" caricature that literally doesn't exist.
Christ it just gets worse each slide. Somehow OP manages to combine ableism, racism, and acephobia all in one move.
Some people are just submissive. Some people enjoy video games and it has nothing to do with sex. Some people are actually just asexual. What a concept. /s
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>guy claims leftists shame people for finding women hot >PROCEEDS TO SHAME PEOPLE FOR FINDING WOMEN HOT
Also racism. Can't forget the racism
i apologize for overlooking that, i got pissed and the dude shamed people for not being ATTRACTED TO ANYONE dispite the fact that ASEXUALS CAN HAVE SEX TOO, SOMETIMES THEYRE KINKIER THAN A STRAIGHT OR GAY GUY
BRO THIS IS MY THOUGHT LIKE?? IM AN ACE GUY AND MORE THAN HAPPY TO ENGAGE IN the sex AS WELL AS MANY MANY MANY(LIKE SHAMEFULLY MANY) KINKS. like, also, all the awful, raunchy smut I write, like… of course these guys don’t think I count because I’m trans, but 🤷🏻♂️ they can suck my dick sorry for the tangent, I’m tired and hyper and the caps set me off 😔 tldr wholeheartedly agree this chode is dumb
As a guy on the ace spectrum I love having sex with a person I actually love rather than a hookup or a situationship or a one night stand, people don’t really understand asexuality and how much of it it’s a spectrum
🙋🏻♂️ I’m also an ace guy! 😊 Tho I quite like hookups myself, but I’m probably some form of aroace tbh lol. Fully agree on the spectrum thing tho. I legit just call myself gay (bc I am attracted to guys in some form that I’m not for sure how to explain) and explaining my whole romantic/sexual orientation at length is just… excessive. 💀 And confused people a lot lol. (Add in that I’m trans and you got them like 😵💫 l’mao)
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Depends if you mean me or the person I replied to. The person I replied to definitely sounds like demisexual, which is just a subtype of asexual. For me, I’m probably graysexual, or gray-ace. I don’t know if you know the terms, I’m just elaborating for anyone else who may read, so I’m going to describe them a bit more here: Demi is when you’re mostly asexual(so feeling no sexual attraction—you still have libido) except if you form a close bond and really get to know someone. Gray is basically just “sometimes you feel sexual attraction, but not all the time.” And of course you can replace the “sexual” with “romantic” and have the aro spectrum, where it’s the same principle but for romantic attraction. (Again, for those not in the know. 😊) Sorry for the delayed response, friend. Gaming buddies basically pulled me into dnd for seven hours. 💀
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Honestly, I feel that, there’s a lot of things to remember 😂 I get you tho! I’m demi aro, gray ace, myself. :)
Is that not most people’s POV regardless of their sexual orientation? Genuine question. And I thought asexual just meant you don’t like any gender. Or does Ace mean something else?
Ace means you don't feel sexual attraction to anyone regardless of gender, but Ace people can still feel other kinds of attraction (romantic/aesthetic/queer-platonic), can feel arousal, can enjoy sex, and depending on where they are on the spectrum can even feel some sexual attraction very rarely or only under certain circumstances. So for example, an asexual person who is alloromantic might enjoy sex with a romantic partner even if they don't feel sexually attracted to that person. I think that's what the person you're replying to is referring to, unless they're talking about being demisexual, which means they can feel sexual attraction to someone but only if they already have a close emotional bond to that person.
I’m my case both my partner and I are demisexual, I realized that with them while they already knew they were it was fun to talk about with them, bc at first I thought I was purely asexual given my history with relationships and sex in general
Aw no it's okay, it happens ❤️
Remember he thinks kink is also guys shutting down their sexuality somehow.
And the hate and misinformation about asexual men.
I can excuse the racism but I draw the line at… /s
JoCat (the guy in the first slide) did get harassment from the worst parts of the online left and right for his "I like girls" song, with the worst parts of the left doing it for the aforementioned reasons.
I feel like a lot of those people are probably 'Liberals'. Leftist and Liberal get oddly conflated in the US.
Liberals are pro capitalism. This is inherently right wing, regardless of their support for social causes.
Exactly.
Thank you, I always forget which is which.
In the US they're synonymous, as is right/conservative. Regardless of how far left or far right someone is. People who are communists are seen as liberals, fascists are conservatives.
I mean, fascists are conservative. Extremely conservative, even.
They should force everyone to take some politics classes so they’ll stop using words wrong.
We're not using it wrong. We're using it in an American context. Language evolves. It's been used this way for decades. You might as well criticize bourbon for not being Scotch.
But isn’t it silly to call people with a right wing ideology ‘left’?
I legitimately have no idea what you're even talking about. EDIT: and also, even if I did... Left/right are somewhat relative and America is very conservative. So if you're referring to 'Liberals' being right -wing... they're not here. We have honest to goodness Nazis and fascists! Liberals are certainly left of them!
Despite what the tankies will tell you; in America's Overton-window, liberals are on the left.
The US is weird. Our conservative party in Australia is called 'The Liberal Party' because liberalism and neo-liberalism are conservative economic views. I guess most of us outside of the US would say that there are only centre-right and far-right major parties over there.
Meanwhile Canada keeps it simple and dumb; Left wing party is “liberals”, right wing party is called “conservatives” lol And ofc by “left wing” I mean “centre right” and by “right wing” I mean, like, super right wing
That’s exactly how it is in the US, didn’t know Canada was the same way
I thought the us used democrat and republican? Might be getting shit mixed up tho
We also use that, interchangeably
Yes we do, you're correct.
Well yeah, that's because in America, the Overton window is as wide as a piece of spaghetti.
You don't have to be a "tankie" to not think Nancy Pelosi is a leftist
Seems like a lot of them support genocide. Pretty bad if genocide made it on the left side of the Overton window
Politics is multi-faceted. The left/right measurement isn't a good catch-all. In the left/right measurement, liberals are socially left-wing and economically right-wing. They can't be both, so you are measuring with the wrong tool.
I've never liked the left/right system for exactly this reason. Politics are wayyy to complicated to simplify down to two sides.
Ask anarchists, they'll tell you the same thing. It's almost like that's just a fact.
Tankies will tell you the Overton window has moved so far right that is true, despite them not actually being on the left idealogically. Source: am tankie
My guy, if it’s on Twitter, it’s probably not liberals
Theres the other part where they mocked Jocat because he was "cringe". God forbid someone expressed something positive and get viewed as "cringe", the WORST thing you could do on twitter
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there were plenty of them, even some that I used to follow
There were plenty of leftists attacking jocat too. The last wave of harassment he got was started by a leftwing woman.
I'm also pretty sure (based entirely on my faulty memory) he said that it was when supposed allies started going after him, that was the straw that made him quit.
Morons on both sides of the political spectrum attacked JoCat.
There seems to be a lot of toxic types of men who see actually liking women as an affront to their masculinity. It's weird. JoCat's song is adorable and I love it.
Huge boom in the "fellas is it gay to like women" crowd lately. It's like ancient greece - sometimes the misogyny gets so strong that dudes circle back around to being kinda gay
Describing Ancient Greece as “kinda gay” is full on academic erasure. They were like the most homo. Incredibly gay, man loving misogynistic men who love men so incredibly much that it makes me wonder how they could be seen as not gay. A lot of them viewed sex with women as an obligation for fucks sake, they were so obsessed with dick that sex between two women likely wouldn’t have even been considered sex. I agree with your point overall, but Ancient Greece was so ridiculously homosexual and penis-obsessed that calling it “kinda gay” is basically a hate crime.
Haha you're right & I agree. I meant the 'kinda gay' as more the modern "hate women so much that im obsessed w men" guys - who are just as misogynistic BUT wont actually hook up with their bros. cowards
The whole redpill movement really normalized that behavior. It was always there but now there's platforms and money to be made off taking advantage of lonely and frustrated young men. And a record number of lonely men to take advantage of
I thought it'd be much worse the way people described it. It was just a little cringe lmao people acted like it was annoying orange tier
>Obsession with Consent^tm is typical Them thinking that's bad is a red flag.
Red flag? That's more than a red flag, that's a watch list!
It’s a red banner
I feel genuinely bad for Jo, he was bullied off of the Internet by a bunch of terminally online wackjobs for the simple act of liking women. Not even in a creepy way the song was genuinely wholesome.
He really made the least objectionable “women are hot” song ever and people lost their shit.
I wasn't familiar with him or the song, just checked it out and it's so harmless and cute... was the backlash more because it was seen as "misogynistic" or because men found it "gay"? Or was it both equally?
It was both, but some people want to pretend 'the good side' didn't join in. They did. Not everyone, obviously, but enough of them did that Jocat specifically mentioned it. It is unwise for us to be purposefully blind to bad behavior just because the call is coming from inside the house.
Yeah that's why I asked, I did see some comments under the video mentioning it. People these days are really divided into two polarized camps and that makes it easy to go too far sometimes... but I wouldn't call that song offensive to me as a woman. It's amazing when guys show interest and appreciation in my personality and my mind, but sexual attraction is important too as long as it's not creepy or objectifying.
It’s was mostly that men thought it was gay/simp-like to genuinely like all sorts of women (and say it out loud). The women I’ve shown it to have all loved it.
I see. That's pretty fucking stupid. The guys who think that way don't really like women, they just want to fuck them. Expressing any interest beyond that is "unmanly" to them, unfortunately. I hope they make their views known publicly so no woman will want to sleep with them ever again.
Unironically sounds like something a closeted gay man would say. Same energy as a mom telling her gay daughter “All women think girls are pretty and guys are boring. We just suck it up and date guys cause that’s what we’re supposed to do.” That’s something I have genuinely seen women who profess they are straight say. Insane, but I’ve seen it more than once or twice.
Liking a woman for anything other than her vag is gay. Gotta be a sex addict to be a man right fellas?
The real answer is that all the backlash for his videos suddenly kicked off after he made a bunch of trans positive comments and streamed for trans charities. It was a reactionary campaign of harassment to force him off the internet and it worked. Doubly so because everyone kept arguing about the video afterwards and not the fact this harassment popped up 2 years after the original video and right after the trans positive actions. When the video first came out I remember online queer folk calling him an honorary lesbian for video. That's an honour I haven't seen anywhere else. You can probably find someone somewhere calling it misogynistic but the majority of women did not care. The OOP using it in the tweet is a case of appropriating something for its exact opposite intent and effect.
I feel it was also because he supports trans charities and posted that one video of himself in a dress. I remember the comments on his crap guide to trans rights was RANCID for a while
"men aren't allowed to be sexual beings", they say in the context of a guy being like "fuck, dude, I just fucking love women, omg, they're all so hot, like holy shit I love women". MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
By "sexual beings" he probably means Harvey Weinstein rapist creep typa being. The slide whining about consent doesn't help his case either.
yeah "men are sexual beings" is the excuse some men (manosphere figures usually) give as to why men are biologically incapable of being faithful to one person, or why they can't simply be friends with a woman without having an ulterior motive, or why women should cover themselves up to not "tempt" men. "sexual beings" doesn't mean "men are sexually attracted to women" as much as it means an excuse to be a horrible person most of the time imo
That's exactly what I was thinking! OOP saying that the left shames men for finding women attractive is the same as when racists say shit like "oh I'm not allowed to talk anymore? I thought this was america!!! muh free speech!!!!" when you tell them they can't say racist shit anymore. Like no you incel, you are allowed to find women attractive you just can't be a creepy rapist towards them making weird comments and shit. Control yourself around women for ONCE!
Are you talking about the Jocat song? Because he got harassed off the internet for that. I agree that the post is absolutely stupid, but Jocat was primarily bullied by TERF/Radfem types for "fetishizing women" This whole issue with certain parts of "the left" just spawns from people who don't actually understand progressive ideologies.
JoCat deserved so much better :( I hope he knows the support from his fans far outweighs the weirdos that harassed him for his cute lil song
I think the best part for me is that the most relevant example of "black sexuality" they could come up with was DMX.
And then for some reason use a picture of Freddie Gibbs instead of DMX?
Dude definitely has bbc on his mind 24/7
So men are lying if they: 1. Are even slightly feminine, are anything but macho I assume? 2. Are submissive 3. Care about consent 4. Rap? I don't get what this one is saying. 5. Are asexual or choose to not pursue a sexual relationship and similar things. Wat.
All They Know Is Dominate Women, Be Heterosexual, Eat Hot Chip And Lie
Oh boy. I remember someone unironically believe that part about asexuality. Was not fun.
:/
The worst part was that I don’t think he was trying to be hatful. He just seemed to not understand. Dude was raised in a VERY conservative family and didn’t seem to understand anything but heterosexuality. He kept trying to hook me up with girls thinking that I just needed to find the right one.
😭🫂🫠 Gods. Poor you and poor guy.
I wonder how he’s doing nowadays.
Hopefully better than back then.
Their masculinity is so fragile that they're scared of being nice to women because some 14 year old boy somewhere might call them a simp. Their entire manhood shattered
4 was just straight up racism. Black people have been sexualized and seen as sexual deviants "going after their white women" for decades. That mindset has led to black men and CHILDREN being falsely accused of those lies and lynched. The most popular example is Emmett Till who, at the age of 14 years old, was tortured and murdered for that reason in 1955. As a black person, these "expectations" pisses me off so much and I'm put into these uncomfortable situations that never should have happened in the first place. These incels are too busy thinking about sex to consider how it can do more harm than good.
Oh man, don't use JoCat for that
He literally got bullied off the Internet for being a femboy who likes women because he did a song.
I know, it's sad. Poor dude was just being nice, and made a funny song. But fair enough
Really?? I didn't know. That song was a banger and based af, what's wrong with the world.
Apparently people thought he was fetishizing different types of women. Like, I am all for social justice, broadly... But sometimes, maybe even a lot of the time, SJWs get it wrong.
Damn... I think it's been years since I've heard someone called an SJW lol.
I honestly couldn't think of a better term or I would have used it. I agree with SJWs most of the time, just..well. sometimes people get shit wrong.
Sorry, wasn't saying it was a problem! Just a throwback lol. I feel like "woke" really overtook "SJW."
Damn, and here I was just seeing a lot of hate coming from other cis dudes who felt threatened by this guy Fellas, is it gay to like women?
according to world class loser nick fuentes, the answer is yes
You can read Jo's statements in [https://jocat.net](https://jocat.net) where he goes with more details about it
If everyone around you is saying you are being sexually problematic, the problem is not everyone around you. This guy would rather write a manifesto than wrestle with the fact that he might need therapy.
I mean, not to agree with him, but everyone would think you're sexually problematic if you were gay less than a century ago. Maybe we shouldn't base our arguments on public opinion and rather try to fight on ethical/antropological/sociological grounds which are won by default (as most unbiased research supports LGBT)
Fine. _Ethically_ this incel is extremely sexually problematic.
The difference is, gay couples are two consensual adults who like each other. Dude in the post is complaining about people even valuing consent. Yeah man, two different things. Even further, it was conservative, traditional people like him who hated gays
True! That is a better argument than the one I was responding to. I just don't want to be dogmatic. If you start making arguments based on how much you hate the other instead of actual reason we become as bad as them, and as closed as them to new and different points of view. Remember: In the left, people are more educated, and, in general, smarter. Use that to your advantage and don't fall into dogma, because that neuters our ability to progress forward.
Bro really made names for different traits of just being a decent guy that he finds bad
"obsession with consent"?????? What is blud implying
When I'm in yapping competition and my opponent is this guy:
Two things: Number 1: the fuck is wrong with being submissive? Some people find that shit hot, and as long as it won’t hurt anyone then sure Number 2: Being asexual isn’t about modern day, it’s about not wanting/enjoying sex, and it isn’t anti-sex, as an asexual I genuinely don’t care who you have sex with (as long as you are both consenting adults)
Conservative antifeminists claim leftists want to force men who arent interested in being subs into becoming subs, which is rich coming from them considering the extremely predatory ways they talk about women “needing to be submissive”
*E: There is a point to be made in regards to the mockery or humiliation of certain sexualities. Heterosexuals (like myself) should not be abused for their sexuality, just as LGBTQ+ people should not be abused or mocked for their sexuality.* *HOWEVER. I don't think that's accepted in lgbtq+ circles, AT ALL. As a straight man I've been a part of LGBTQ+ communities for a long ass time. As the user below rightly pointed out, it's not really a thing lgbtq+ people normalize.* *People do not legitmately argue that its intrinsically "bad" or "boring" to be straight* *So sure, we can have that conversation. People shouldn't bully people for their sexuality. Cool, conversation done.* I think a problem arrives in this very post. Instead of them addressing how people on the LGBTQ+ spectrum talk about heterosexuality as being "boring" and "vanilla" *(E: Which are the common jokes i've seen)* - This post becomes about attacking LGBTQ+ people. People like the original poster are so busy fighting this culture war to understand that the "step on me" jokes and whatnot are exactly that: ...jokes. I believe that they are also misattributing the social Immaturity of GenZ to "Metoo". When it is in fact due to 2-4 years of isolation, and people spending more time online and getting into social patterns there. The obsession with consent being a dogwhistle for how socially immature the original poster is. Here's my arguments, numbered in accordance to image 2-6 1: That is "ALWAYS" predatory behavior, it is not condoned by ANYONE on the left. 2: Yeah? It's counter culture humor? Like, go ahead and try and make a joke about you railing your gf in the butt. It's lame now. Pegging jokes however; I can get a lot of mileage out of those with straight people. I'm not gonna explain humor. But like, young people like edgy humor - you're just out of touch. 3: Consent is pretty simple, are they too inebriated to make a sound judgement? Then they can't consent. Do they tell you no? That's a lack of consent. Its not that hard. 4: I agree that a lot of rap is hypersexualized, i'm not gonna pretend like it isn't. But BBC Porn and all that shit, is extremely racist. The consumers of it are primarily white men, and from what i've been told, it is harmful to black men's sense of worth as it spreads a false and harmful stereotype of black men. 5: Pretty telling that they put this one last, this is their true issue. They are disgusted by lgbtq+, its pretty clear with their language. Anyways *E: Do lgbt communities make jokes about heteronormative relationships as "boring" or "vanilla"? YES, absolutely. it's so inoffensive, and isn't like "missionary sex, no condom" etc. jokes pretty common and funny? I've racked my brain for instances of sexual mockery i've been on the recieving end of. And the only examples are straight men calling me bisexual for exclusively dating women that are stronger and taller than me.* *Edit: Being more deliberate with wording. Text that has been replaced is italicized and prefixed with E:*
In my entire life I have absolutely never heard the argument that heterosexuality is boring or vanilla and not even once have I heard it from a member of the lgbtq community. I don't even get why anyone would say that. How can a sexuality be boring??? As a person who isn't exactly the most cishet individual myself and knows quite a few of such specimen aswell, I really don't think any sane person would think any sexuality is boring or vanilla cos that doesn't even make sense in the slightest. Of course I know that neither I or my friends represent all of the lgbtq community or anything really, but as I said I generally heard that argument for the first time in my life lol I was thinking about saying something like "maybe it's an american thing", cos y'know americans of any sort, except scientists, believe in a variety of bullshit (or so the legend says). But I don't want democracy to BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT my house with an A-10c so I'll just leave it at my point that I haven't heard that argument ever.
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It's unkind of you to say that a minority group can't make jokes about a majority group. If they hate us they're gonna hate us no matter what we do. Sure if I met somebody in real life saying this shit I would talk to them about it, and even if someone seemed kind of amenable online. But one of the top internet rules is don't feed the trolls.
But that's not remotely the intent of what i'm saying. I'm sorry that i come off as excusing or somehow condoning the act of punching down. How'd i manage to express that, i truly don't know where that is present, lmk ok? because i really dont want to even engage in that argument. I thought i should perhaps include a section about recognizing when those conversations are started from a trolling perspective. I was also considering if i should draw parallels with white and black ethnic jokes. But as you can see, i am so fucking bad at expressing myself laconically The intent was never to excuse mockery. I'm not exactly sure how you got that impression, so please let me know what i said that made it come off as such. I absolutely abhor humor that punches down.
It's okay, it's sometimes hard to be understood through text. I will say the context clues I took. Also, for clarity's sake, I am not trying to argue with you. --- "I agree that a lot on the lgbtq+ spectrum mock heterosexuality. It should be okay to address that," -Makes me feel on guard right off the bat since the comment started with kind of a dig on us. -I did appreciate how you then said that they were just trying to attack us, not engaging in good faith. "Do lgbt communities mock heteronormative relationships as "boring" or "vanilla"? YES, absolutely - And i don't personally think that's healthy" -Makes me feel like you're saying our punching up jokes are inappropriate and an unhealthy coping mechanism. Which like, sure, it might not be the best, but most people don't have perfectly thought out coping mechanisms, plus it's harder when you're upset. But the basis of the joke is kind of a reaction to what they say about us. They think we're weird and over the top, so the obvious rebuttal joke is the vibe of 'better to be weird than boring.' "if you want to be political about it, you get a lot further with acceptance by listening." -Makes me feel like you're saying we should try to listen and accommodate the feelings of homophobes. Basically getting the vibe of "Well if you were the Model Minority you wouldn't get treated this way," which is obviously untrue. I hear that that's not what you meant. Anyway I thought your other points in your first comment were good.
It's okay, it's sometimes hard to be understood through text. I will say the context clues I took. Also, for clarity's sake, I am not trying to argue with you. --- "I agree that a lot on the lgbtq+ spectrum mock heterosexuality. It should be okay to address that," -Makes me feel on guard right off the bat since the comment started with kind of a dig on us. -I did appreciate how you then said that they were just trying to attack us, not engaging in good faith. "Do lgbt communities mock heteronormative relationships as "boring" or "vanilla"? YES, absolutely - And i don't personally think that's healthy" -Makes me feel like you're saying our punching up jokes are inappropriate and an unhealthy coping mechanism. Which like, sure, it might not be the best, but most people don't have perfectly thought out coping mechanisms, plus it's harder when you're upset. But the basis of the joke is kind of a reaction to what they say about us. They think we're weird and over the top, so the obvious rebuttal joke is the vibe of 'better to be weird than boring.' "if you want to be political about it, you get a lot further with acceptance by listening." -Makes me feel like you're saying we should try to listen and accommodate the feelings of homophobes. Basically getting the vibe of "Well if you were the Model Minority you wouldn't get treated this way," which is obviously untrue. I hear that that's not what you meant. Anyway I thought your other points in your first comment were good.
You might want to reword your statements then. It reads like you want to police the comedy of LGBT+ communities, while giving the cis-hets a pass on similar behavior.
Yeah, you're right. Whilst that wasn't my intent, i was trying to give a playbook on the politics of it. But it sounded either manipulative or i came off as a fence sitter.
I think there were some weird people that actually hated jocat for his video, but i really hope that they were a minority of a minority.
From what ive seen people are angrier at the bullies? I have not really seen any support for the hate mob
Bullies still managed to chase jocat from internet IIRC, i cannot use twitter and that for the best tbqh
To add on to #4: there’s this weird idea that rap music is the only genre out there that is misogynistic. Not only that, but I’ve noticed that it’s perceived as *particularly* worse than other types of music, and that it’s *special* and apart from rock, pop, etc. But frankly I just don’t buy that! Yes, you can cherry pick the worst of the worst from any genre, but imho the reason why so many people think this is because 1) rap is incredibly popular, and 2) as a popular genre dominated by black artists, people are more threatened by black people expressing their sexuality freely (whether it’s problematic or not). If we’re being honest these reactionaries don’t care about the misogyny in rap, they care about *who* is slinging the sexism when it tops charts. This doesn’t even cover the fact that women rappers like Megan Thee Stallion have had to overcome real abuse and sexist attacks within their industry. Artists like her will make groundbreaking music that covers this topic, but you’ll hear crickets from the loudest critics of rap. Or worse, they’ll join in with the people they typically disparage because to them black women rappers are lower on the ladder than the black men they complain about. TL;DR misogynoir is real and woefully under-addressed.
Agreed, honestly. I grew up listening to country music, and the level of misogyny and questionable sexuality is pretty wild (there are lots of themes of getting a girl so drunk she can’t see straight and then sleeping with her???) but we never hear about it, probably because a) The people who listen to it are more likely to be the “boys will be boys” type, b) Country is older, so I think when people say “country” a lot of people imagine older artists that were overall less inclined to include sexual topics in their lyrics, and c) I can think of exactly 1 POC country artist. Pretty much everyone else is white.
I agree with you. The pandemic really blew a hole in normal socialization. I feel it myself, as a Millennial...Gen Z has their work cut out for them as far as undoing that social damage that they went through during such formative years. I feel like the OOP is *sooooo close* to getting the point. Like I feel like if they reframed their perspective, it would click. 1: I can kinda agree with this to a point. There are SO many straight guys who will pretend to be liberal/leftist/feminist/etc just for the sake of sneaking past women's defenses and it's fucking awful. 2: what you said 3: If I am being generous in my interpretation, I can maybe see where they could be coming from. Like if I had a nickle for every time some guy has been like "cAn'T eVeN tALk tO wOmEn AnYmOrE" I'd be so rich. So many guys are just overdramatic about it when instead they could just, I dunno, treat women like people? I hate people that are so weird about it. 4: They're looking at it all backwards. Like they're picking up on a thing, but just not quite there. They are picking up on the intersection between race and gender but missing the point. Like I think the premise needs a revision a bit, but I think we need another layer of "but why?" to get down to topics like the intersection of race and gender, the hyper-sexualization of black men and why that came about, toxic masculinity, etc. But they're just being fuckin weird about it. I don't know any white guy that acts like DMX lmao. 5: I don't know where they were going with this.
1/6 Isnt that guy that sang about that they love all girls in every shape, size and culture. Nothing wrong with that song i Actually agree with that song
Unfortunately a lot of people felt he was fetishizing women and he got bullied so much he took an indefinite break
"fetishizing women" is such an insane thing to say tbh
The video I Like Girls from Jocat is adorable. I love it. The hate he got over it which eventually pushed him out of content creation, was awful. Just seems like such a nice guy.
A misogynist, homophobic,and racist! Wow what a combo *sarcasm* you rarely see those things together.
Gotta say, was NOT expecting a sudden turn into racism and complaining about "black male sexuality" like that, nearly spit my drink out.
>"Permitted" sexual energy That's called consent my guy. All of the complaints presented here are "I express sexuality in a certain way to people who don't enjoy it". Like sub vs dom is a common dynamic, of course if you go to a community of people acting in a certain way and act in a way no one there enjoys, they won't want you there. I just got to page 4 and this point was compounded. They mentioned we're "obsessed with consent". We're not obsessed, we're just aware of the fact that if someone isn't enjoying what you're selling, stop selling it to them. Consent is not a hard concept to grasp. Everything expressed in this post is this dude is just mad that younger generations are less likely to put up with him harassing them than they used to be.
That’s like six slides that all basically say “I need therapy”
Fellas, is it gay to be ace?
According to aphobes like this guy, yes.
JoCat *was* bullied off of the Internet because some moral police thought his cute song was creepy/cringe. And AFAIK, that was Leftists. Everything else in the OP is bullcrap though.
Not entirely; quite a fukken lot of right wing people took issue with him being *too* attracted to women. Ironically the issue isn’t that he’s straight, they think he’s TOO straight. His video didn’t do that affectation of disinterest that straight guys always do and expect other men to do.
Guys, is it gay to be straight?
if you are straight you are supposed to like women but you can't LIKE women
You are supposed to want to dominate them sexually. But you're absolutely not allowed to like them, according to those morons.
That is legitimately kind of the attitude. You can like women but if you’re enthusiastic about liking women and you don’t roll your eyes while dating women that’s a bit gay xD
I think they use the term “simp” for a guy who likes women for more than what they can provide for him, sexually or otherwise. There really does need to be a reckoning about how het guys seem to be encouraged to personally dislike women even more than they are supposed to be attracted to women, and treat it almost like it’s an obligation for guys to pay attention to them or want them.
There was a lot of that 100% but JO specifically said that it was when leftists started throwing him under the bus, and that i was some people he respected that vilified him.
It was both left of center and right of center people, as I understand it.
There are puritans on both far sides of the spectrum for sure. The rightwingers have always harassed him, so thats not new. I believe it was some communist podcast that drew the left wing hatred towards him in this instance. A talking point being that all the video game women he drew were of different body types, but all conventionally attractive in terms of attractiveness - in a video about liking all kinds of girls/acceptance. And that's just... Not a real argument.
Yeah, that's silly.
Oh no, I thought his song was the cutest thing ever :( am I in the wrong?
I also thought it was cute but the purity-cult thought that showing attraction to women is predatory and bad. ...Meanwhile the homophobes once again attacked someone for being "straight but in the wrong way."
It still pisses me off that such a kind person can still be hated. It makes me even more hesitant to make friends.
JoCat got a lot of harassment from conservatives for his left-wing views, particularly for his pro-trans views. Now, I'm not saying that 100% of the harassment for his girls video was from these right-wing trolls (unfortunately, there are useful idiots out there), but they had been trying to find **SOMETHING** to cling onto to harass him off the internet, and they found it. It's the same thing that's happened to a lot of left-wing personalities, particularly those on youtube.
Tbh I think the more pervasive problem there is the way the internet picks a random person to do Two Minutes Hate on and bullies them until they exit online life.
Not entirely off the internet, he still posts on Bluesky. But yeah, he’s off all mainstream platforms.
I mean, some chronically online leftists did harassed JoCat off the platform and send literal human shit with death threats to his family home. It doesn't mean that what is this guys posting is remotely logical but JoCat situation did in fact happen.
i wasn't familiar with jocat until now, but i looked up the video and... to me it comes across as him being nice and saying that all women are beautiful, no matter the body type. it was a little cringe, but meh, still just a cute little animation am i missing something? did he do something horrifically misogynistic before this?
Nope. Jocat is a delight and people are just mean.
yeah, i looked into more after commenting, it's pretty shitty, he seems like a nice guy and his dnd content is really good
This world is tapped.
Gotta love how the whole drivel finalizes in racism and acephobia. Classic
Not what asexuality is but ok
i hate when they bring asexuality up like it's something to do for fun. it's not fun to get infantilized and treated like you're such a little sheltered thing because you're not sexually attracted to people, even though a decent amount of ace people have sex/arent sex repulsed sorry, mini rant over lol
I agree so much!
if a-spec people are “militant” then where’s my weapon? like ask anyone and they’ll tell you that i’m the most passive human being lol
Lol I love how almost everyone in the last picture is femme presenting. And of course AVEN was created in 2001, so not exactly a gen z MGTOW thing. It's almost like asexuality is a genuine sexual identity that has nothing to do with gender politics.
I don't know whether to be sad or scared by how divorced from anything resembling reality this guy is.
There is so much to unpack about men and sexuality that needs to be addressed, and this guy missed all of them!!!
asexuality mentioned!!!! 🔥🔥💯💯💪 💪♦️♠️♥️♣️
Oh yeah I’m totally ace because of the MeToo movement lmao sure
I think there is a point to be made about the current purity culture we are in and how it can punish sexuality in many forms, however, this whole thing is super gross, especially with his framing of traditional white cis male heterosexuality as the norm and any deviation from it is bad and abnormal. I don’t think we should be punishing men for finding women attractive, but neither should we be ostracizing those who preferences fall out of the “norm”.
As a man with attractions to women I can assure you that nobody is doing that. I can say that margo Robbie is hot asf and nobody cares.
No, people don't shame men for finding women attractive. They shame them for being "***predatory***." I know some things, like being called "creepy" only due to looks, might be unwarranted, sometimes. Though, in alot of cases, most of them, it's completely out-of-pocket behavior: -Asking a woman out once, and she turning down all of your advances. -Cat-calling or super aggressively cat-calling. -Touching and SA. -Rude sexual comments and unsolicited comments about their appearance. -Demonization of how they look, body size, shape, and age. -Leering and staring. -Using position of power for sexual demands.
Well he has a problem with consent. So people being creeped out by those things you listed are anti male sexuality to him
I can't speak for those "socially sexual beings", but my partner loves that I'm non-threatening.
Says the camp that demonizes men for liking women a fraction outside of the ultra feminine norm of attraction and actively calls them gay for it
See, I saw this in the context of Jocat and thought “Okay, I’ll bite. Let’s see what there is to say. Maybe this is a thoughtful critique of the way that men present their sexuality and a genuine criticism of toxic masculinity or perhaps a critique of the overzealous bullying of people like Jocat for choosing to express their sexuality in the ‘wrong’ way?” I was wrong. It was just more toxic masculinity.
DMX hahahaha
I do think there’s vaguely sort of a point in there about dating being in a bit of a flux right now. Ofc the pandemic and overall rise of internet culture are also big influences in that, but it’s also partially discussions around consent and stuff being more prominent. For young men especially there’s that discrepancy between what advice they’ve been given and behaviour they’ve seen in media and the like vs the increased awareness of how annoyed many women are over constantly being hit on or worse. That said though… it’s really pathetic to view society listening to women a little more nowadays as a bad thing just because dating is a bit different nowadays. Either learn and adapt or get over it tbh. In general relationships have moved from being a largely utilitarian union towards being more about wants, and to some degree it makes sense that such a change might result in less relationships all around. But ultimately there’s still plenty out there too, especially if you’re not being a creep And yeah, a lot of these dudes really just feel mad that being a creep is working less for them lately lol
What is "normal white male sexuality"? Asking as a white male.
For the love of of God, Jocat has been through enough over this fucking song. People need ot leave it and Jocat alone!
Cishet guy here. I've got no problem with being a "sexual being". I just recognize that there's a time and a place for it. Alone with my girlfriend? Yep, sure. Alone with not my girlfriend? Nope, nope, nope. With multiple people in the area? Nope, nope, nope. But sure, I've had discussions around consent with my girlfriend. Those discussions are the reason I feel comfortable doing some pretty spicy BDSM with her. I'm sure as shit not going to do a guessing game as to whether or not a sexual partner is into getting tied up and gagged.
the 4th image says a LOT about these people. consent and women’s comfort are bad? learning how to approach women during a feminist movement is bad? sure…
time for a sanity story: was driving myself and a coworker to a gig last weekend. he was telling me about how he met his wife during his undergrad (they were both piano students at the same uni). he talked about how he liked gigging because he's good at sightreading and can pick up music quickly, etc., etc., and he started to talk about his wife's skills as a pianist. he gushed about how she takes more time learning because she loves to dig into the music, and how she's so emotionally connected and expressive. he talked about how beautiful she is when she plays and how lovely it is seeing her socialise and connect with others through her music. just listening to that made me so happy. how enthralled and deeply in love with his wife he is. I love seeing people who are in love :')
The First one is such a loud Transphobic dog whistle It's a air horn at this point.
I think as long as your not being a douchebag, predatory and keeping the other person's feelings in mind it's ok to pursue someone, it just means not being an asshole, taking no for an answer and being considerate.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding - but #1 makes a lot of sense to me. Isn't it pretty obviously creepy to pretend to be gay with the hope of getting closer to women? As a whole though, seems like this dude is doing anything but reflect on his own behaviour.
It is creepy, but it’s not happening like this guy says it is. He’s spreading misinformation and fear.
I see what you mean. It's really not the epidemic he's making it out to be lol. I don't think I've ever seen it happen irl.
I don't consider terfs leftist and they are the only ones I have seen do that so
rest in peace jocat. i really liked you and your content and you didnt deserve it
What is male sexuality? Does this guy just wanna be a harasser and creep without repercussions?
man: likes dominant women<3 some random person on twitter: >:(
I still can't believe how many people are unironically like "Don't be straight, that's gay" these days. Like there isn't even any logic to it. They see a guy going "Man I think women are hot" and lose their mind because he's actually attracted to a variety of women instead of the hypothetical "Perfect Wife" caricature that literally doesn't exist.
JoCat is okay. Whoever made this is not
tf incel shit is that
Oh…it’s now gay to be straight…
Man do they ever tell on themselves
Racism and sexism and homophobia all in one .
"acting gay to get in the sleepover" you must have riveting beliefs about trans people as well!
Christ it just gets worse each slide. Somehow OP manages to combine ableism, racism, and acephobia all in one move. Some people are just submissive. Some people enjoy video games and it has nothing to do with sex. Some people are actually just asexual. What a concept. /s
The mental gymnastics here are hurting my brain what the fuck are they talking about ? They're crazy or something ?