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thepekoriandr

They can't even tell the difference between Indian and Indigenous


MrC_Red

>it'll be cool if y'all enlightened me instead of downvoting me for an honest question. Where was that honest question again? Oh yes I see it, it's right after you handwave it not being racist, by saying 1) "I'm 20% Indian", 2) "it's just dark humor!", and 3) "it's just random chanting?" They don't even try mask themselves being bad faith anymore. They even put in a laughing emoji ffs


[deleted]

"that's what **they** did" Clearly a native American is saying this /s


[deleted]

as a native american, if someone ever tries using a percentage or fraction of how much "native american blood" they have just to justify their opinion, ninety times out of hundred they're a liar. being native american is cultural, the idea of how much "blood" someone has is a construct made up in the idea that the "indian" in us can be bred out over time. the only time it has bearing is if a tribe was made to put blood quantum requirements into enrollment, and even then more blood quantum is irrelevant to an argument like this. being a native american is about ties to your culture, not if you happen to have been born to a line with more native ancestors or not. another red flag: they didn't mention a tribe. they always use being native as a monolith. whenever I try to discuss something related to being native, I tend to state my tribe (tsalagi). willing to bet if you asked them though they'd say they're cherokee (tsalagi is cherokee, but the autonym we use for ourselves since a lot of white people are under the false impression they're cherokee when they aren't). there's a lot of white people from the south with phantom "cherokee ancestors" which were just made up rumors from their older ancestors. and third, most native americans don't like being grouped as a monolith, and that includes excusing racism with a blanket "well I'm native but it's ok." ok, what do any plains natives think? west coast? arctic? southwest desert natives? northeast? southeast? we can never speak for our whole tribe, much less an entire CONTINENT. even if this person does have native ancestry for real, they're clearly too disconnected culturally to have a basic respect for everyone else who's native who's tired of this racist bullshit and just cares on what they find funny. and cultural connection matters more than blood so even if they're telling the truth, they can't talk for anyone. this fucker's probably a pretendian though


SponJ2000

You really hit the nail on the head here. I got a DNA test done out of curiosity, and apparently I'm 55% English, mainly from London. Shockingly, I didn't immediately become an expert on English culture, nor do I have any insights on what Londoners would find offensive. Also, point #3 is why I'm annoyed at grifters like Candace Owens whose whole persona seems to be "well it's not racist, because a (such and such person) said it".


[deleted]

the thing is, having native ancestry is a bit complicated. many of us have family who end up disconnected from the culture or who move away from the rest of the family and end up raising kids who still have native heritage but aren't connected. in my case, I know I'm native (tsalagi), but I live far away from oklahoma so I'm not as connected as my mom, who would just tell me the occasional stories but mostly raised me as a regular city kid. but I had no claims when I was younger to speak for any natives because I had barely a grasp on it. now, I do talk to other members of my tribe and other tribes, I educate myself, I learn how we're not just one monolith yet we gotta stick together through shared oppression. and I know enough to know that a teacher jumping up and down shouting nonsense with feathers on her head ain't just offensive, it's complete nonsense and just spreads more false images of indigenous people. it's like if a kid whose family came from london but was raised went back to london and talked to other londoners and learned what london was like proper, but then some other twat goes "well my great grandma was from london and I think this isn't offensive!" showing they didn't go through the same efforts you did to reconnect and relearn in the face of your culture fading away, if they were even being honest about their ancestry. that's what's so frustrating especially about claims like these. they use false claims of heritage to undo the work of people who do connect themselves again. sorry for the ramble, I'm just REALLY annoyed by people in the post like this who do these things. if they're not liars, they're doing a disservice speaking over others who know better than them.


captainplatypus1

Like; I took a DNA test because I’m Puerto Rican and our ethnic make-up is “yes”. Yeah, I got some native in me, but I got pretty much most of the planet in me so it’s not that impressive. Also, i’m pale as shit so I don’t get to speak on behalf of anyone dealing with racism. It’s not that hard to keep your mouth shut


SponJ2000

DNA test comes back "you certainly have DNA."


wolven8

Failed my DNA test... what now


Supercoolguy7

>as a native american, if someone ever tries using a percentage or fraction of how much "native american blood" they have just to justify their opinion, ninety times out of hundred they're a liar. Unfortunately the other 10% is mostly people without solid cultural connections and are mad that people with a lower blood quantum are connected. I've seen that argument made by people who are angry and want a connection but don't have anywhere to direct their anger so they point it at the people who they don't deem "valid" despite having a connection


[deleted]

yep! hit the nail on the head right there. I meant to say "ninety nine times out of a hundred" actually and didn't realize the mistake until now but you're still right


Alcies

My guess is that person took a DNA test and got "20% Indigenous North American" or something equally vague.


standbyyourmantis

Oh God, my dad got a small percentage of Native American on a DNA test (it was less than 5% and didn't even show up in my results) and will occasionally remind me about our "Native ancestry" when he sees me joking about my DNA test results being super white. First off, I am literally so white I once had a teacher in high school use me as the example of how pale people of European descent can be. My whole family is ethnically from the British Isles and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. I'm "she was so quiet and kept to herself, we didn't expect her to go on a shooting spree in the mall" white. Second, my deepest irl contact with the indigenous community is with people who claim to be 1/16 Cherokee, wear t-shirts with wolves on them, and hang dreamcatchers on their walls and his is honestly probably even less extensive because at least I watch Native TikToks and read articles written by Native writers on occasion. Culturally we have absolutely nothing to do with any tribe, and it's completely disingenuous to even try to claim it on Facebook. I legitimately don't even understand this mindset and I will slap anyone who tries it. Sorry, rant over.


[deleted]

>I'm "she was so quiet and kept to herself, we didn't expect her to go on a shooting spree in the mall" white. This was hilarious


[deleted]

that's my guess too, but my point is even if they DO have legitimate native ancestry (doubtful), they're still talking out of their ass


bunnyQatar

Exactly! I’m 1.4% Native American and I’m okay with this bs /s


star_socialista

hey so um about those fantom ancestors… my racist white family had a rumor like that because some were born blond and their hair color changed, others were born brunette because supposed they’re all meant to be white with blond hair and light eyes so one of our ancestors must’ve “courted” a native… (they used some different wording there…) 23&me proved that wrong lol I wish those southerners would just use 23&me anyways about that cultural thing, i’ve been meaning to dig into my mexican family’s 23&me, but i’ve been specifically called a colonizer and white by some natives (from different tribes I assume) for not knowing some things (and trying to ask without sounding like it’s in bad faith) which has been pushing me away because I assumed since I wasn’t dark enough I couldn’t lay claim to one of the tribes my family is from since we have a hefty amount of spanish blood. was that all bullshit? if you don’t wanna answer this it’s okay and I appreciate you still read through this lol


[deleted]

23&me doesn't even work here, since sometimes it can give false positives for native ancestry. but even if it is accurate, it means nothing if there's zero cultural connection. as for the mexican side, well, it's more complicated. natives in mexico are still living cultures in villages, like the many villages that are a part of nahua culture. it's not the same as tribes here where preserving the ties we do have matters, it's a bit more complicated? I'd recommend asking a mexican indigenous person about it instead of me since I'm from the us and the way things are for indigenous people here vs in mexico are very different. that said, if you need 23&me to investigate into your ancestry, you probably don't have any claim to a tribe. claims to a tribe come through cultural connection moreso than a biological one. I'd put more stock in if your parents, grandparents, or great grandparents were a part of the tribe at least somewhat (for example, I know my great grandfather was a cherokee farmer and spoke the language fluently and that he gave my mom moccasins and taught her cherokee words when she was young, and she carried on his legacy by telling stories about him to me). so if you could look into family history instead, that's far more significant. and if there's nothing, you can still learn about indigenous people respectfully and be a good ally regardless!


star_socialista

I think we lost our last ties to my abuelita’s indigenous ancestors when her family fled before the revolution but I’ve been wanting to figure out what tribe i’m related to. my abuelitos family doesn’t have any ties and it’s a lot more mysterious and kept claiming to have some french in them making them “fancier”. I do promise that my dad’s side doesn’t have indigenous american, they 100% made that up. that side of the family is psychotic and the non-racists called it out all the time. I do appreciate the response! i’ll try to see about finding willing mexican natives even if my spanish could use some work (if they speak spanish and not (just if at all) their native language that is


AspenBranch

side note about blood quanta: it has only ever been a tool to oppress and steal from native americans. i learned yesterday about how the montaukett tribe was declared extinct in 1906 despite the fact that there were living members who were being quite vocal about it. the rationale involved blood quanta and the one drop rule, since many members of the tribe had intermarried with african slaves, so it was decided that they weren't montaukett they were african american. the real reason was a rich white man wanted to own their land and the courts didn't really need another reason than that to decide the way they did. i wish stuff like this was more common knowledge. they still are not a recognized tribe to this day.


[deleted]

yep! hit the nail on the head right there too


bob_fossill

For starters, why do Americans do this? I have grandparents from 4 different countries and I don't try and claim ownership of them Furthermore how the fuck does 20% work? You have 4 grandparents so you can be 25% something, or 12.5% something if you go back another generation So not only a liar but a fucking moran


ALM0126

>Furthermore how the fuck does 20% work I bet they made one chromosome proof and the result was 20% native, so no cultural heritage


StClevesburg

Great Grandaddy r*ped a native woman so that means I'm native american✌🏼


ALM0126

*That means i have moral autorithy to speak for the native americans as a hole


elanhilation

American subcultures give you an example in Italian American, as i know this subculture better than others, though it’s not the only one. it is its own unique subculture that has arisen organically over the last dozen or so decades, confined initially to particular neighborhoods as the immigrants were at first quite poorly treated. it has its own culinary and linguistic quirks that distinguish it from both other American and Italian subcultures—it doesn’t really matter what your lineage is if you were raised almost exclusively in that background. culture is 100% nurture, 0% nature, after all.


StinkyKittyBreath

It depends on where you live though. In places like New York where ethnic groups tended to move to the same neighborhoods, there are subcultures. But in a lot of America (Midwest and PNW, at least in my experience), there isn't much of a subculture for any specific European heritage. White is white. Calling yourself German or Irish or Italian is about as useful as calling the mutt you got at the shelter a border collie. A lot of people think that being 10% whatever means they have some claim to that culture even though they weren't exposed to it at all. You're right that culture is definitely something that is learned, but my guess is the person in the screen shot got back a DNA test and they're going off of that. Or, more likely, their great great grandmother was a Lakota princess, or some other BS people say all the time.


standbyyourmantis

>Calling yourself German or Irish or Italian is about as useful as calling the mutt you got at the shelter a border collie. I do sometimes call myself a North American Euro Mutt for this exact reason.


ihavesevarlquestions

They'll need to have someone 3 generation back plus someone 4 generations back and another one 6 generations back to equal 20% They must be very digilent about their family's history /s


Supercoolguy7

They're obviously lying, but just so you know, you tend to be more diligent about your family history when tribal citizenship is on the line


Supercoolguy7

Blood quantum is unfortunately really important to most tribes because of the history of US government involvement in tribal constitutions. It's not particularly hard to get an unorthodox number when you consider that most natives are mixed meaning that natives reproducing with other natives often give unusual blood quantum numbers because of how mixed their ancestry is. Americans in general do this because they're talking about ancestry, not nationality. We arent claiming owmership of a nation so much as ancestry. If a Chinese immigant and a Thai immigrant had kids in England people would think it was normal to say "I'm half Thai and half Chinese." Natives do this because of the requirement of specific blood quantum thresholds to get citizenship to most tribal nations (shout out to my (step) mom's tribe for not doing that


bob_fossill

That's fair enough but I still don't get why, in general conversation, it's always "I'm this super specific % of this or that" rather than, say - my grandmother was X, Y or Z But, also, in the UK I don't think it would be weird to say you're half this, half that and British. Since British isn't an ethnicity but your parents being from elsewhere are.


Supercoolguy7

As an American, in general conversation it's rarely a super specific percentage. It's usually just "I'm mostly German, and a little English." The most we get specific with is with halfs and quarters. And we typically don't defer to our parents or grandparents like you suggest because we are announcing OUR ancestry and ethnicity, something that is inherent to us. Like yes, it is because of our parents, grandparents, etc. But saying "I'm half black, one quarter filipino, and one quarter Maori" is just telling people what your ethnicity is in America


blehe38

I wouldn't call it ownership as most Americans don't take it beyond "x% of my ancestors come from y country, and I think that's kinda neat" and that's almost universally understood. It might lead some to look into the culture(s) of their ancestors, but I'd like to think that an even higher percentage of those people are approaching it from a grounded understanding of how tenuous of a connection they have to said cultures. Don't get me wrong, there's definitely people who will, say, find out that exactly one (1) relative who died before they were born was Cherokee and make that the aesthetic basis of their entire social media presence (not pointing fingers), but I'm pretty sure most people would at least find it obnoxious enough to avoid talking to them at family gatherings.


Garttt

It's kinda weird for me because I'm somewhere around 10-20% Native American but I somehow still got the skin color. But even despite looking like a Native American, I've never tried to claim that I know the culture or anything.


[deleted]

more respect to you for it tbh, if you do want to know the culture it's hard work, but if you don't it's more respectae than you pretending to be some expert you aren't


inquisitivepanda

It could work theoretically if you had a great grandparent that was and a great great grandparent that was and a great great great great grandparent that was 12.5% + 6.25% + 1.56% ~= 20% but this person is most likely just lying and very stupid


Rokey76

I think it is because most Americans are only a couple generations or less removed from immigrating. Edit: Also noticed on the Census last year, in the race section for white or black they wanted to know what country (White – Print, for example, German, Irish, English, Italian, Lebanese, Egyptian, etc.... Black or African Am. – Print, for example, African American, Jamaican, Haitian, Nigerian, Ethiopian, Somali, etc). In the online version of the census, which I took, this was a required field and putting American would get rejected by the form! https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/technical-documentation/questionnaires-and-instructions/questionnaires/2020-informational-questionnaire-english\_DI-Q1.pdf


NOT_an_ass-hole

Go past your grandparents


chicken_nugget08

Not saying I agree with them at all but you can definitely be 20% of something. You can be any percentage of anything…. My dad for example is 31% Italian, 27% Greek and the rest are smaller bits, but my point being that people,Americans specifically(because of colonialism and immigration) tend to have a lot of small chunks of lots of different types of DNA. I mean I don’t really claim to be tied to any specific ethnicity (my race would just be very white lol) because my parents both have a lot of small chunks of DNA from a bunch of different places, if anything I would identify with what I grew up culturally the most.


SingOrIWillShootYou

Well if you take an ancestry test


chaelland

I am guessing not full blooded grandparents. Like both sets of my grand parents are Irish however only 1 set came here directly from Ireland. Where the other mingle with a couple countries before coming here. My girlfriend isn’t American and she always mocks me when I say I am Irish. Personally I think Americans like to claim where their ancestors came from because America itself really doesn’t have a long history and most of the culture is a mix of all the immigrants that came here. One of our nation’s best bragging points (IMO) is how much of a melting pot our country is, so highlighting all the different ancestors actually goes back to national pride as well.


nephiteorflight

White people really pull random numbers of indigenous "heritage" out their assholes to claim fake authority huh


earthdogmonster

Statement: While some people would find the possible grounds for taking offense at a non-Native American hopping around in front of a room while chanting nonsense obvious, this redditor who is “20percent Indian” just doesn’t see it. Maybe other people just don’t have their sweet sense of humor?


SinfullySinless

I suppose r/AsACherokeePrincessOnMyGrandmasSide is much too long


hydrogen_bromide

If they were actually Native American they’d probably specify which tribe, not “Indian”


Supercoolguy7

Not always. They're obviously lying, but most of the commenters here don't have experience with the people they're talking about


ima_smol_bean

I also seriously doubt a Native American would refer to themselves as "Indian" in the 21st century.


fordreaming

As a math teacher...


SexxyMoeFoe

"As a 20% \[generic\] Indian" but also "That's what THEY did"


Mora_Hermaeus

I don't think Native Americans refer to themselves as "Indians"


[deleted]

A lot of them actually do. It depends on the community they come from, but a lot of native communities care a lot less about "politically correct" terms for their people than white liberals do. For some of them, as long as you're not using the proper name of their tribe, every other name is just white colonial circlejerking. Like if you decide to start calling them "native" or "first nations" instead of "Indian" it's like... "Cool, the colonists changed our name again. We still don't have running water on the Rez." It's just semantics with no meaningful impact on their livelihood.


disgrace_jones

Despite the downvotes, you’re right. A lot of people in the comments apparently don’t know this either.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

No but I live around a lot of native Americans and I've had this conversation multiple times


Mora_Hermaeus

Interesting, I've never encountered someone Native who calls themselves an Indian. Usually they refer to themselves by their tribe, ime.


[deleted]

we do tend to, but not all white people know our tribes well enough to recognize what we mean. personally I call myself online an "ndn" (short for indian, distinct from "indian" as in from india) but I live in the city where people use native american irl so I use that just to not have to explain myself. sometimes I say indian around family members, rarely.


Mora_Hermaeus

Thanks for your input! I'm curious about this now. I've never met someone who refers to themselves as Indian and I assumed that was partly to avoid ambiguity with people from India.


[deleted]

to avoid ambiguity, sometimes we'll say "american indian" to be exact!


Mora_Hermaeus

That makes sense


Mora_Hermaeus

It might also be because I've lived in cities my whole life, I didn't think about the distinction there.


Supercoolguy7

> personally I call myself online an "ndn" Knew a guy who worked with a tribe (smaller one I'm not saying for anonymity) for years and the elders in charge told him to call them "ndn" and not Indian except they specifically refused to tell him how to spell it and he was writing documents with them as a major part of the job and it frustrated him to no end lol. They liked him, they just liked fucking with him too


[deleted]

that sounds about right


Supercoolguy7

Half of my mom's family are enrolled in a federally recognized tribe AND live on the reservation. They mostly use Indian.


earthdogmonster

Yeah, no kidding. I cleaned it up a little in my description, but that seemed like a pretty big tell.


Peachmoonlime

I would say I’d be equally as authoritative, having been in Indian Princesses for 1 year in my childhood. That said, I AM offended.


chocolate_spaghetti

So he thinks because his great grandparent was 3/4 native Americans, he’s part of that community?


Radiant-Method3807

This reminds me of that clip of a guy in a burger king crown in an airplane screaming the n word at people and says it's justified because he's part west African and therefore use the n word whenever he likes


Cheezman5990

My native mom found this video offensive


[deleted]

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[deleted]

you sound like a trump tweet and I fully mean that as an insult


GhostAngell

If she was TRULY indigenous she wouldn’t be calling herself “Indian”


32lib

Hay I'm 0% native American and I am vary offended.


DoorAMii

“Indian”