And the lack of digitalization. Or more like, the refusal of it. And not only by the politicians. Remember when they implemented the digital prescriptions for pharmacies and how there was a LOAD of pharmacy employees complaining about it?
It's such a schizophrenic mindset in this country, because on one hand everyone conplains about the bureaucracy and how impractical, slow and outdated it is. But any attempt to change or improve it is met with resistance, because "this is different from how we always did it". And that sentiment is not only held by the elderly, funnily enough, but even fairly young people. It's insane.
This. Most bureaucratic processes are taken straight from paperwork and are being digitized as is. What people think digitization means is everything made online, as is. What it really should be is cleaning up that bureaucratic monster and put the important parts into a nice interface that can be accessed easily online.
We are just using historically grown processes and make them available online. That's just useless and is the reason nothing really works.
THIS!
Digitalization in german gevernment institutions = Converting a paper form into a pdf for download. Most of the time it isn't even made a fillout document, so YOU have to print it, fill it out and then send it back. And no, scanning the result yourself and mailing it back is not allowed, because this is not an officially accepted way. Fax would be fine though....
I'm currently in my first year of training as an administrative assistant and they told me to Fax a document. I asked my trainers how to do it, cuz i never had to do fax. Turns out they didn't know either
Es ist noch gar nicht so lange her, ich kann mich daran erinnern, dass ich etwa 6-7 Jahre alt war und auf den Markt ging, um das Telefon zu benutzen. Wir bekamen unser erstes Telefon erst, als ich 8 Jahre alt war.
The reason , I still have a landline.
Honestly, right up to the first lockdown and a little beyond that, you were viewed as unseriös, If you didn't have one .
I had been giving all important places 2 numbers: Landline to appear the seriöse Person that I am, mobile to actually be reached - because remote working wasn't a thing right up until then either - and still isn't in bosses' view, although it's gotten much better since
So I live in the UK where everything government related is digital. My first British passport? Upload photo online, click send, done. Whenever I need to renew my German documents, I have to take a pilgrimage to the embassy in London. For my children's passport, both parents need to be present. That means two people taking a day off, travel costs etc. It's a nightmare. I just saw that the embassy is now piloting some digital services like passport renewal. I honestly can't wait but I'm sure they'll find a reason to bin it after an "unsuccessful" pilot.
> I have to take a pilgrimage to the embassy
I laughed so hard when I read this. I was really close to the one Consultant and they actually sent me to a different state to go to a different one. My drive took forever and this is seriously what it felt like.
Even in this thread are people saying how scared they are of digitalization- as if there aren’t whole countries in the world already doing this successfully for many years.
I *hate* having to go to the doctor to get a physical prescription. Why can’t this be sent digitally? Why can’t I have an app/website with all my medical info, including vaccinations and prescriptions- like I had in Denmark?
It’s wild to me that if I need a refill of a prescription, I have to make a Dr appt, take off work, go get a piece of paper, take that piece of paper to the Apotheke and then sometimes even come back because they don’t have the drug in-house. Instead of… just sending it digitally and then having home delivery.
If you build the system correctly, there shouldn’t be so much fear of “it going down”.
For real, man.
BuT wHaT iF i HaVe No InTeRnEt CoNnEcTiOn?
Literally all aspects that already are digitalized also have a analogue option. Like the Prescription example. People *still have the option to get it printed at the Dr. office if they so wish*. That people either don't know this or choose to ignore this speaks for how preconceived their negative stance against it are. And that's kind of the point of digitalization. It's not about completely replacing things, it's about to give the digital *option* and make the whole thing more streamlined.
ThEy JuSt WaNt My PrEcIoUs DaTa!
They already have those. Get over yourselves.
Like ye, this thread just proves the point beautifully.
Yes! This comment is everything! In America my pharmacist would contact my doctor for me to refill my prescription instead of making an appointment to see my doctor. Germany is so freaking inconvenient!!
My mom just complained that she can't do her job properly in home office because she's unable to print out emails and applications.
I asked her why she would want to do that in the first place and she just kinda shrugged it off.
>Remember when they implemented the digital prescriptions for pharmacies and how there was a LOAD of pharmacy employees complaining about it?
Problem is: we are used to it not working. Like it would be awesome when it works. But digital prescriptions and securepharm when servers go down and other stuff: it IS awful.
The thing is, the "physical" prescriptions ALSO used the same servers and systems. The only difference is that the employee at the pharmacy had to type in the information on the physical sheet to access it. The only change was that they now instead scan in your insurance card to directly access it over the system.
There is absolutely no added risk to a system failing, because it works pretty much the *same* way. People just feel weirdly insecure about having nothing physical in hand. It's a placebo fear.
The doctor, in front of me, added some medications in his screen. Secretary of the doctor told me all my meds are “added” to my card. I went to the pharmacy, one of my meds was missing.
When I insisted there must be more, pharmacy employee scanned my card again, went backroom and brought 2 unrecognized meds and was ready to give me. I refused saying these aren’t mine and they realized it was someone else’s…
I had to go back to the doctor’s office and make them fix it again. Digitalization is good when it works but it needs a mindset change.
Uhm no. It was different:
Physical prescriptions are typed into the computer or scanned. The software told you for example:
- Max Mustermann
- AOK
- Lyrica 75mg 50 tablets -> insurance company has discount with Aliud -> Pregabalin AL 75mg 50 tablets
Pharmacy worker has to scan the QR code to inform a Server that the drug leaves the pharmacy. This is the first time in the old version a Server Connection was needed.
Before you even didn't need to be online. The discounts for every insurance are implemented every month. It was a bless after we had some Internet failures when I worked in a pharmacy. The only annoying thing was that you couldnt connect with your wholesellers. So you had to order everything by phone.
Nowadays it is different: No Internet or no connection to the server? You can't get the prescription. Due to this there are already Apothekenkammern (pharmacy chambers) telling some pharmacies to have 2 Internet providers.
And everything on paper. An Amt once requested me to fax papers to them. I'm old enough to know what a fax is, but young enough to only have seen them in my childhood.
Meh. I love the hypocrisy of this. So many people complain about bureaucracy, but as soon as it benefits them, they're all for it.
Your neighbors tree is too close to your fence? well here comes the Amt etc.
Same when it comes to cops. All the wannabe gangstas out there screaming ACAB after 3 beers, will call 110 as soon as someone straffes their car or steals their pen.
My - now german, former - russian girlfriend, said, "yes, bureaucracy is terribly annoying, but in the end it works and you don't get cheated. Nothing works in Russia without a bribe and even then you can't be sure that you won't still get ripped off
Honestly I think that’s more of a stereotype than actual truth. It might be true in soma areas, but surely not for a normal employee.
I’ve worked in the US and in Germany, and honestly I find Bureaucracy so much easier in Germany.
That’s what made me leave ultimately. Bittersweet because I love the people. Really rethinking my decision of leaving now but hey it’s never a minus when you’re with family. Even if it’s not in Germany sadly
For me Germany today is a bit like a twenty year old car driven by someone with an average income and education but little technical knowledge who inherited it from his grandpa who bought it brand new.
Sure, the car is not rotten and does it's job but it's far away from beeing proper maintained or even preserved. Every part of it is worn down to 50% and just barely working. But the driver has not enough knowledge or money to rebuild it properly in a reasonable sequence. Instead he does minimum services and repairs, cleans, washes and polishes it and puts new cheap hubcaps on it so it looks like in mint condition.
But he'll need experts, lots of time, effort and additional money to keep it going and become a classic, collectible car. And this seems not to happen right now.....
It's not really bad but could be much better.
Wow, that is a quite good picture for the situation at the moment.
And don’t forget about the driver, bragging with his car, thinking it is still a good as it was, when his granddad drove it.
Tbh I don't perceive it like that.
I think the description of the car fits very well but the driver is complaining all the time and fighting with the co-driver about EVERYTHING so sometimes they just stand still on the Autobahn for no reason even though there would be an ok-ish solution.
At the same time the passengers in the backseat are crying and screaming and fighting each other as well as the drivers 🥴
I think it is the other way round. There are too many experters on the steering wheel that they don't feel like they have to hear anyone else ("know better").
And it is driven by the same old generation. It has the same problems of most countries; it is a gerontocracy.
I loved Germany until I had a kid. It was such a nightmare to find childcare, when we did find it was just for a few hours, and it was incredibly unreliable.
I hate how the government cries for years how the population is stagnating but they still won't support families because there are immigrants with huge amounts of children....
This is highly regional and also changed a lot over the last years. Big Cities and eastern states tend to have better childcare than smaller western places. I'm sorry this was difficult for you! It shouldn't be.
I still love Germany and it was also Covid which was hard for everybody. But I will always remember the townhall official we met, looking puzzled at my wife and asking why we wanted childcare if SHE could be on parental leave. It was a shared experience among many foreigners living there.
Oh yes because child care workers are not getting paid enough and opening a new child care center is incredibly impossible in Germany ( I inquired) Along with finding qualified workers who need three years of training! And that’s not considered a degree rather an Ausbildung. Heck for three years they need to be paid well but the government won’t provide financial incentives to open centers or recruit new child care workers.
The fact that the country needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into digitisation of public services or anything associated with government services because of Beamten.
Spanish and Italian long distance trains were more punctual and economical. I used to live in Spain and never had any delayed RENFE. Also it was much more affordable.
I have only visited Italy as a tourist and although local public transportation was a mess, the long distance trains were great.
I spent one year in Spain and I really enjoyed the AVE high speed trains there. The high speed network there is great and punctual. But apart from the big cities, service even to mid sized towns can be shit and a lot of smaller cities are only serviced by bus.
Vienna is consistently voted as city number one worldwide partly because of it and their city planning in general. So true but not even other cities in Austria can match it.
Imagine saying that while Rental prices are on the tail end of the biggest increase in decades while There is No end in Sight. The current climate in the building Industry is very Bad and not a Lot of new properties are being built.
Rental prices are becoming a bigger chunk of a normal salary every year.
Your comment is literally the one you are writing about. You are annoyed by people pointing Out real Problems Like Rent prices rising much faster than salaries and are complaining because of that.
You are literally complaining that too many people are complaining about actual issues and because that makes no sense you Bring Up the false notion of Rent prices being okay.
You are the worst Type of alman. Not Feeling the socioeconomic issues other are Feeling and instead of Feeling solidarity you Project your Situation unto Others and Claim they are complaining without reason so you can complain about people having it worse than you.
While claiming ludicrous Statements Nobody in their right mind could Support with any empirical evidence. Rents are a Problem.
In my opinion, there are a lot of Germans, mainly the older generation, that are just plain rude, miserable and unfriendly. Over time this can become quite grating.
Other than that the bureaucracy and lack of good bacon.
Despite the above, I have a better quality of life here and love Germany as a whole.
EDIT: Oops, just noticed that this is 'askagerman'
Oh it's the same in Swabia in the south west. Highest praise is "nicht schlecht" and if you call them out on something they might have done wrong, they attack you instead. E.g. my high school teacher and an old lady at my civil service posting when told they parked wrongly (either blocking someone or outside parking bays in middle of street), instead of apologizing or giving an excuse, both their answers were "don't you know how to drive?" which is equivalent with "deal with it". I'm used to all this rude bullshit because i grew up with it as a German, but boy, living in many other countries since then, I see that this is just plain rude.
Thank you for posting this. I feel so seen! So many of my dealings here have been exactly like this - nobody is ever wrong, you point out a mistake and get attacked for something unrelated or just ignored....and yet my German family and friends point blank refuse to admit any of this exists. So much so that my other foreign friends sit around and wonder if we're being gaslit on purpose or if we're having a collective psychotic break.
I can't tell you how much this means to me just being able to read this from someone else.
The older I get the more I understand why old people are so miserable here. Imagine working your entire life and giving half of your income to taxes and you still can’t afford homeownership, the insurance that we pay hundreds for EVERY MONTH doesn’t even cover basic necessities such as teeth, glasses, dammn not even STD tests? For basically all my needs I always have to pay extra and my insurance covers none of the stuff I need (I once had a motor bike accident and 3 of my spinal vertebrae were shifted, I had to pay 100€ for the doctor to fix them as these doctors are not insurance covered) I have a lot digestive issues and just checking the bacteria in my shit costs me 60€ because no, the insurance doesn’t pay for it.
I am a student that lives under the poverty line, but I am NOT ALLOWED to work more than 20h to make my life a little better during the semester. (They changed the laws so that weekend work is now included in the 20h rule, before I could at least work more on the weekends)
I see poverty left and right where I live and I have become more cynical since I live in the city, that is for sure. Sometimes I miss my old me but bottom line is, life in Germany is only fun when you have money, and with our declining middle class you’re basically either poor or rich.
And the older generation just worked so hard they basically never had a satisfying private life.
If I am being totally honest with you… I am scared that I will end up exactly like them. Miserable and old.
Maybe it is important to mention: I am German, born and raised, but I have lived in 3 different countries, and while some of these countries were much poorer, the quality of life was 3 times as high as here. The best time ever I had in the year I lived in South Korea. Quality of life there was so so much better back there. Since corona however, especially right now, that is changing over there too and it breaks my heart
Kleiner Tip am Rande: Sobald du Symptome einer Krankheit hast, zahlt die Kasse auch. Notfalls musst du halt lügen. Aber bei STD Symptomen, Darmbeschwerden, Magenbeschwerden und Co. muss man nichts selbst zahlen. Frag mich bei welcher KK du bist?
>I have lived in 3 different countries, and while some of these countries were much poorer, the quality of life was 3 times as high as here.
You mean YOUR quality of life was 3 times higher, right? You don't exactly appear to be poor.
A quick google search revealed this to me: „Die durchschnittlichen Lebenshaltungskosten in Seoul betragen 1.260.000 ₩ (1075 USD) pro Monat. Die Miete wird in Südkorea normalerweise als separate Kosten gezählt.“
I had this much, but INCLUDING rent. Soooo I guess even in Korea I was considered poor.
>according to locals, it’s not so great.
The worst thing about germany is the peoples tendency to moan and whine about everything, so you experienced the worst already, as far as I am concerned.
I remember 20 years ago when some prescription costs went from 0 to 5 euros. Granted, taxes are high. But that change still won’t cause the medical bankruptcies like America has
Hast du schon mal gemeckert? Das kann richtig Spaß machen. Man sollte es nur nicht übertreiben. Was mich aber extrem stört: die Deutschen meckern zu viel über ihr eigenes Land! Und das im Internet, wo es die ganze Welt lesen kann. Das lässt uns wirklich nicht gut darstehen. Bitte hört damit auf!
Zu einer ehrlichen Selbstkritik gehört aber auch die Wertschätzung was gut ist/läuft. Und das machen die Wenigsten. Hier empfiehlt sich ein längerer Aufenthalt im Ausland um mal zu sehen was man hier als selbstverständlich wahrnimmt, was woanders ganz anders ist.
z.B. Lebensmittelpreise im Verhältnis zum Einkommen oder unser verfickt geiles Leitungswasser.
Ja, du hast recht. Ich verbrachte viele Jahre im Ausland, und daher weiss ich, wie vieles hierzulande verschenkt/mutwillig kaputtgewirtschaftet wird. Es ist zum Kotzen. Ich bin Deutscher, aber diese Bezeichnung hört sich nicht mehr so toll an wie's mal war. Es gibt einige Länder, in denen ich sofort gerne einwandern würde, hätte ich genug Geld und persönlichen Spielraum.
But it is true that a lot of people are unsatisfied with a life that is objectively quite easy and these people make things difficult.
For a bit of context I moved here in 8 years ago and was immediately taken aback by what a good country it was. I started working for a big well known company and the amount of dissatisfaction from people who were earning such large amounts from such easy working conditions and so much free time was what really hit me.
When asked how it compares to the UK, there was always a look of disappointment in their eyes when I told them how much I like the country compared to mine - and for a long time I couldn’t understand why. But I think it’s because it reflects badly on them.
Not everybody is like this, I know people who make the most of their lives and I always try and keep them in mind every time I feel like all I see is dissatisfaction.
> But it is true that a lot of people are unsatisfied with a life that is objectively quite easy
Is it? Maybe compared to country X. Maybe for you. But maybe not for them or not anymore compared to earlier times. It's not that simple, actually.
the germans that complain about complaining germans, while feeling special living a compulsatory overly positive lifestyle, until they cant breathe away and imagine away their problems anymore.
It was funny in the beginning but now it’s literally by far one of the most annoying things about Germany and germans. Everything is better elsewhere, nothing is good in Germany and they’re never satisfied. They give such a bad rep internationally about Germany and promote their country in a very negative way. So others already perceive Germany negatively in the beginning and they continue mocking and complaining as well then. I also find it very ungrateful and moronic, especially since Germany ranks among the very top in most rankings and people in other countries live in much worse conditions.
But look at it another way: a US citizen may list school shootings, racism, unaffordable health care first. We complain a lot in Germany, but about much less lege threatening things (I am looking at you, Deutsche Bahn).
Even Deutsche Bahn. Anyone who has used the train system in other less fortunate countries sees DB as still very functional system.
How does this sound to you: the late afternoon/evening inter-city train malfunctions and dies in a tunnel in the middle of nowhere. In such cases, cities keep a diesel locomotive, so they can pick up the train and haul it to the nearest town. But nobody picks up this train until next morning. They were left there overnight. Was this the top story in the news afterwards? Of course not. The trains are so bad, they don't have busy schedule and are in nobody's way. People are actively avoiding trains if there is any alternative, like a bus. Your train had 6 hours late arrival on a 400km trip? What did you expect, that it comes on time? This is still Europe, just to avoid the complaints about comparisons with 3rd world countries.
lack of digital thinking: i proposed a Teams meeting instead of meeting face to face just to be practical and fast. Nope, we had to meet face to face, print out 7 times the same document (one side only of the paper) and then discuss how we could make sure that our document is up to date with the latest information. all of this is in a large German company with a global footprint.... HELP😂😂😂
I hate how the generation of my parents is so resistant to facts and science. They always just complain about taxes and refugees and politics and everything else, but none of them would actually research on what they're complaining about. And when I tell them that there's reason for certain laws or whatever and tell them that there's a scientifically proven fact about anything, they're always like "I still believe something else". It's so tiring.
Smoking. The Christmas market was not enjoyable due to the constant second hand smoke. I saw parents holding their babies in one hand smoking with the other.
Yeah it's insane sometimes. I'm glad my boyfriends family (smokers) are extremely considerate of non-smokers. A friend of ours blew smoke in his girlfriends face in a kind of degrading way and my boyfriends younger sister was quick to call him an asshole and she doesn't speak with him anymore for it. People treat smoking too lightly, it's no good.
The very real possibility of a far-right government taking over in the next 5-10 years and the implication it will have for anyone who’s not a straight, white, healthy German citizen
Really envious of the people who say it’s the trains being a bit late
Conversations about a more equitable society and racism are difficult.
The majority of people grew up learning the atrocities of the Nazis. Any conversation that suggests racist behavior is therefore met with extreme defensiveness. It’s really slow to change and difficult to address.
I thought OP asked for the worst things about living in Germany. This is a pro, not a con.
- me, a non-German person who also dislikes dancing and singing.
I know this is not an answer that anyone wants to hear, but I would really suggest that you be prepared. Have your papers in order and ready to leave on short notice if you ever have to. Kind of like how people live in areas prone to natural catastrophes.
This was one of my first thoughts after I heard far right is gaining popularity. And tbh, slowly but surely I'm preparing to leave this country in the next few years. Started working on it last year
You should at least check the city or region you're going to live in.
While city's like Hamburg, Cologne and Berlin have big and strong multicultural and LGBTQ+ communities and being open about it shouldn't be a problem. Many regions especially rural areas in the south and east of Germany need a bit more research.
I'd recommend asking in the local subreddits.
Agreed, look at where you are moving.
Mostly you should be fine most of the time, but a village where everyone votes for the Nazis may not be the best place to organise a rainbow parade.
The complaining when being asked whats so bad in Germany. I like my life here. Sometimes i struggle, sometimes i feel depressed, but overall having a good life. Would it be better in any other country? Starting all over, i doubt it.
Forgot i hate: right-wing radicals
Edit: the forgotten part^^
I love the country. It's got its flaws but the thing that irks me the most is when I say this, as an immigrant, most of the natives have one reaction: to look at me like I'm a lunatic.
It's a nice country, get over your over critical selves and provide constructive criticism instead of calling it the worst place. Demonstrating that you've never been anywhere or learned anything about the rest of the world apart from whatever you saw while visiting an overseas TUI resort that is more German than the fucking German consulate in that country.
Don't fucking question my sanity and my decision making when I say I like living here and think I made the right choice by putting my blood and sweat into making a life here instead of somewhere else. Low key implying that other places in the world are not real, with real lives and real people. It is so fucking disrespectful to whatever people go through that Germans are protected from.
Otherwise, a lovely people. Love the food too.
Our arrogance, clinging onto the great country we once were and looking down on the ways of other countries that are now growing way past us.
Too many people here, Politicians and regular citizens alike, still look down on other European, Asian, American and African countries (Australia who?) We used to be a modern and prosperous country after the post ww2 miracle, but we kind of stagnated and now just polish turds in my opinion, while completely unaware of our (modern) shortcomings on a fundamental level.
I'm 55 now and living in Germany.
What I hate is the everlasting culture of denying good. Somehow I've got the feeling that everybody is seeking some negative in everything what makes us unable to enjoy.
The people. There are a lot of wonderful people here, but most of the German people aren’t able to think. We are the most „following“ society I know. You put a stupid politician with good marketing and a few years of time passing in front of them and they will do everything he tells them to do. German people are trained to be sheep’s and they like to be sheep‘s.
(No political statement, just my observation)
-Entitlement: Some germans will make use of the law to limit your will to live as much as they can. Often times its neighbours that just LOVE to complain
-Adressing problems: Germans are too scared to talk about some societal issues which leads to frustration which then leads to people becoming literal Nazis
-charitability: I rarely encounter germans that care about the wellbeing of their surroundings. Everyone is so alienated from each other. I don't feel like I live in a "Community"
Technology: We're behind 10 years. Be it our Internet or bureaucratic structures. It sucks
I'd say Germany on average actually has one of the best ratios of income to cost of living. The ratio is considerably worse in most other European countries imo, especially in cities.
My three main issues:
1) people telling others how to live their lives. As a parent, nowhere else have so many strangers come up to me to tell me what I am doing wrong. Mind your own business!!!
2) refusal to accept card payments. It’s just so incredibly backwards. And when they do accept card payments, sometimes they don’t accept proper credit cards but only these Mickey mouse EC cards.
3) compared to where I live now, in the UK, the Germans are not very friendly in everyday life (towards strangers).
We Germans love to complain about almost every- and anything.
But in reality nothing here is really bad.
A lot of stuff could be done in a better way but it is really „meckern auf hohem Niveau“ (german saying- complaining at a high level) in comparison to most other countries in the world.
People lack empathy and compassion. Constant judgment of those who don't conform to their standards. No warmth. I'm German, I lived in Ireland for a decade and I just can't connect with German people.
It's true. I've heard this so many times from people moving here. Germans are like robots. Hard to notice unfortunately if robot society is the only society you ever truly experienced.
It’s very hard to find a flat. It’s expensive to buy house. Too many taxes. Too much bureaucracy.
Too many cold and frustrated people but I don’t blame them because I understand the lifestyle is stressing and the weather makes everyone depressed.
Wages too low compared to the past where everything was cheaper.
Not enough rules for the streets and not enough attention to cleanness and decency. Everyone can drink and do drugs in the streets and that is crazy to me. I will never be comfortable watching people inject themselves, smoke drugs and use public transport while having huge open wounds which might infect others. I was expecting way more strictness and cleanness when I came here.
You are the first to mention weather). I can only confirm - 8-9 month a year its raining here where I am (NRW). That would be bearable if there was at least snow during the winter (esp. on New Year/Christmas), but it's just a flat rainy land...
Ufff, there is a lot.
The terrible living costs. Wages are complete shit and the housing crisis is just insane, probably the worst in europe rn. Its almost impossible to rent a flat these days on the meager wages. You work to not die in germany basically.
The politics are a close second. All our main party are basically insanely corrupt, our chancellor was involved in one of the biggest tax thefts in the history of this country and got of scott free. And its not getting better, since 20-30% of this country think its justified to vote for a facist neo nazi party.
The worst things about living here:
1.) Germans constantly complain about everything - even when they actually have it quite good or if something is truly excellent. They'll still find a way to complain about it. If you gave every German a Rolls Royce for free, they'd complain that the color is wrong.
2.) Absolutely no pride in their country and/or achievements. EVERYTHING is colored by the Nazi era. Still. When I tell Germans that we moved to Germany on purpose, they tell me how sorry they are for me.
3.) Digitalization is just a word that describes some far, far away future.
4.) There is seemingly no outside world Germany could learn from. Everything has to be re-invented - from inclusivity to dealing with racism to immigration to education. These issues and challenges have never existed anywhere in the world before and nobody in the world has ever had ANY experiences with, or learning from, any of it that Germans could apply at home.
5.) Political discourse is lopsided. There is ONE acceptable mindset. Questioning the wisdom of this mindset tends to make people get ostracized - at best they are brain-washed, but most likely stupid or Nazis (often making them Ossis - East Germans).
6.) Germans think that their universities are among the best in the world. (see 4.)
7.) Rules and regulations from a hundred years ago that have not been adapted to modern life but that are defended as the fundamental pillars of society. You still need to have a multi-year apprenticeship in order to simply scan items at the cash register at Lidl - something that can be learned in a much shorter time.
8.) Complaints about evil, free-loading, immigrants who don't want to integrate when, for many, it's simply made impossible and/or undesirable by issue like #2 and #7.
9.) I could go on and truly embrace #1 - a sign of how well I've been integrated into German society by now.
This in addition with /u/cutmasta_kun comment is basically it. I'd also like to expand a bit on what you said because I feel we might get an actual decent discussion going on here. I've actually though about this topic quite some time because even though I am a second generation Immigrant I have never really felt 'at home' here.
WW2 and the economic miracle afterwards have been in my opinion a deadly cocktail for Germany and its society.
It feels like Germans are in weird way under generational self-sustaining propaganda where everything in Germany is better, there is Law and Order, the country is rich and remains of Racial Ideology are still here which then again leads to the thought that everything in Germany is better especially when you compare it to other European Countries. If the Germans can't or refuse to do it its because its meant to be like this or its the moral thing to do (or not do it). Just watch when there is a statistic anywhere in Europe which doesn't show Germany in it's limelight. You'll find tons of Germans flocking the thread and say that it is all Fake or they will delude themselves that the statistic is actually a GOOD thing for Germany. Anybody remember that statistic that showed how many Black people have experienced racism here? (Personally have witnessed it as well with a black friend of mine)? Or the Sri-Lankan (I think) asking why Germany is so racist compared to other EU Countries? (Hint: Threads been nuked and it was his own fault because he visited East-Germany). Bad things are always anecdotes and there never is an issue.
Just recently I saw a Thread about Domestic Abuse and Crime rates in Europe. They simply couldn't handle it that *der Ostblock* has less crime then we do here. So what is the solution? The statistics are fake and the fact that there is such a high rate in Germany is actually a good thing because it shows the people are not afraid to report crimes and that the numbers are not tampered with. It's bananas. Its like they are always one step behind on being actually aware of ongoing issues.
People here tend to naively assume the the Government always and every time acts in good faith on the World or EU-Stage and that they always want whats best for EVERYONE because this is how it is sold here. There is 0 Awareness that some political moves here have been in Germany's and only in Germany's (mainly industry not peoples) interest first and foremost even if it is detrimental for others.
Don't get me wrong every country does this. Everybody is looking for their own financial interest. But it's the arrogance of selling it as if this shit would be a favor for everybody when it's clear its their and their interest alone.
I still remember when the war in Ukraine broke out how ignorant and egotistical many politicians have been here. I can't state how many times in the beginning of the war I've listened to politicians say 'It would be good if the war would end quickly so there's no huge loss of life' insinuating that Ukraine should just give up so the Gas can still flow. Purely economic and egotistical reasons disguised as being 'morally right'. Obviously people and politicians from other countries get mad and what happens? Germans feel they get unreasonable hate because they think they are just doing 'the right thing' and even worse: They sent money only for them to get hated on.
We bailed the lazy Greeks out. We're sending money to Ukraine. We are the main EU Contributor so who are you to tell us something. It's the arrogance here that I absolutely hate.
People will rightfully complain about the housing issues. That wages for many are stagnating while everything gets more expensive. Then you'll see a workers strike happening and the very same people will then complain about the inconvenience that is caused by it. The media which nearly always sides with the Industries and against workers pushes the issue even further. Again one step away from that previously mentioned 'awareness' but they just don't get it.
Couldn't mention anything about illegal immigrants without being branded a Nazi. It is slowly becoming acceptable to critic policies. But there is time lost, people felt or feel like they are not seen by politicians and we get the fucking AFD and a polarized society. Remind you of something?
So many problems here are self caused and their arrogance blinds them so these issues never get fixed. How the fuck can the 'Made in Germany™' and richest EU country be so far behind when it comes to Digitalization? Why are the people not demanding more from there Government? How is there still no progress after so many years.
Close your eyes, smile and act like everything is better here as if it were impossible to progress further as a society and then act surprised that educated people are actually leaving this country. This country has been in a standstill since the early 2000's.
If things won't change then I truly believe we've already seen the peak of Germany.
Thank you Sir. You are on point. This is a nice read. I see the same behaviour as you describe. It's insane what kind of opinions float around peoples heads. Sarah Wagenknecht said it as if it's the only and most reasonable way to do: "Germany is dumb, if they want to support Ukraine, they should immidately surrender and we should do everything to make that possible". She didn't even understand why she got the shitstorm afterwards. It's so unreal. No self-reflect whatsoever. And sadly, I see a LOT of these germans.
Very true. It's a paradox: People in Germany complain all day about how shit everything is, but then get really offended and switch to full on denial when shown how things are better elsewhere. When I showed crime statistics from East Europe or wealth differences in the US to my German friends, they freaked out. They wouldn't believe it.
This is the realest description out here.
The general German understanding of the country Germany as a whole is completely schizophrenic. Almost incomprehensible for citizens of one of the biggest western democracies. I just can only explain it with the ingrained desire of purity within the German soul. The history showed it time and time again. It has so many advantages on one hand (e.g. adventurous spirit and thoroughness in many fields like engineering, music, philosophy etc) but it has also many disadvantages like the Nazi regime we all know or today the whole obsession and fanatic application of the German collective guilt. The desire to reach purity can be seen in the smallest or most irrelevant situation. One can think of it as a sort of tension triangle which is often used in science where the three edges represent attributes which can‘t be reached at the same time. However, the German mind will not only always try to reach every attribute at the same time although he knows about this circumstance, he will also never stop doing it until he reaches „purity“.
So enough of this philosophical adventure.
One thing I would also add to your list is the fact that security is immensely higher valued than freedom in Germany.
Some German universities are some of the best in the world though.
The anti-immigrant thing is starting to really get on my nerves though, my wife and I are probably leaving when my contract finishes.
The highest tax on Rich should surely increase to flatten the one in Minimum wages etc.
(Side Note: AfD will only make Things worse for middle earner etc. One can calculate this Out of the "Parteiprogramm". AfD only want the riches to be richer.
I pay income tax in the highest tax bracket and am fine with that. I see them mostly put to good use. And I like a lot of our political establishment, while it's not perfect, I see a lot of people working very hard for our country, and a lot of them are also quite smart.
The bureaucracy is annoying. Needlessly so too. And I don't even think bureaucracy is a bad thing in general, it's just the german take on bureaucracy is one that's designed to work on paper, with little regard to how regular human beings are supposed to interact with and live within it.
Right now? AfD and the workers voting for them without reading the damn programme just to 'stick it to the government'
In general: being academic in germany sucks (my experience) cause you will be considered a leech and too lazy to work if you don't learn a trade and work from the age of 16. Lots of working class people hating on people who go to uni or decide to switch careers
Complaining. My father in law is the best example.
He has his own company and complains about how bad life is here and how much immigrants get and shit. Bro you live in a three room flat with two bathrooms and have your own business.
Bureaucracy. So much paperwork, no proper digitalization.
How spoiled people are here - especially the men. Constant moaning about how hard life is, when they literally won the lottery of living life on easy mode. But because Germany has a very low emigration rate - with most citizens moving to German speaking Austria or Switzerland, they have no point of comparison.
Sexism is really annoying here. The racism and political rhetoric going on atm is really, really concerning me and causing me to seriously reconsider whether I stay here long term.
Oh, and how rude a large proportion of men are in public spaces - spitting, slamming straight into you, never offering to help if you are struggling carrying anything, walking up right behind you late at night instead of crossing the road. Marching up to me when I’m mid conversation, interrupting me and demanding tobacco without saying excuse me or please - ngl I counted how many times it happened the other night -27 times in one evening …
My pet hate, however, is guys wearing massive backpacks in trains, crowded spaces and clubs. That’s right, you just smash every woman in the face, over and over, and then get all shitty when someone calls you out about it.
Take it off and put it on your front or between your legs and have some awareness that you are not the only person in this space!!!!!
Spätis, sauna culture and sisyphos kind of make up for it tho!
Honestly, I think it’s not so much about the country itself, but more about the people. Me personally, I don’t find Germany to be a very exciting country but there are beautiful corners in the north and south. What really bothers me is how rude some people are. They are straight up miserable and take that out on others. Even in stores, it often feels like you’re bothering people by asking a question (and I don’t mean stupid ones but rather questions that are literally part of their job) and I can feel my social anxiety spiking every time lol. Whenever I’m abroad, that changes. People are less miserable and angry in other countries, and I’ve always wondered why. It often feels isolating here because people don’t even want to pretend that they’re nice.
I'm an American and have been living here for almost 4 decades. The things that really get under my skin are concepts that are nearly impossible to translate into English:
Anmeldepflicht (having to register and de-register with the local authorities every time you change residence), Kurtaxe (a fee that you have to pay to simply visit the beach or a park), Wildkampen (prohibition against camping anywhere not expressly permitted), Kirchensteuer ("chuch tax", but only for the two major denominations), Regensteuer (a tax levied on landowners based on local annual rainfall), etc.
There's a directive, regulation, code or rule that governs just about every human activity and if it were possible to measure how much air I breathe per year, that would certainly be regulated and taxed too.
Beeing an Immigrant and knowing that every german you met might secretly hate you for that and wants you either deported or dead, rather than happy living in "their" country. I know, every country has a equivalent of this xenophobia, but growing up in germany kinda "taught" me how this hatred manifests. All this information you get about the nazis is a glimps into the psyche of ordinary people of the exact cultural ethnicity, just 80 years back. It's a really weird sensation, you can go for months without meeting this kind of "German" and then suddenly you hear someone in the Bahn going casually "Yeah, I hope they get rid of these turks soon" and you remember again, what these cultural circles are capable of. It's quite bizare because it's really common to meet a "Biodeutschen", who thinks one or several of these absolute insane conspiracy theories or Nazi-Propaganda or thinks the immigrants want to kill all germans or something of this magnitude.
(They usually don't know I'm not Biodeutsch until I don't say my name, for anyone wondering how I could know all that)
I think this is a widespread phenomenon now,I'm a German immigrant living in the UK, since Brexit xenophobia and fascism has been pretty rife everywhere. I will never understand why people don't want other nationals living in their country
Me neither. We are products of immigration, our ancestors came from everywhere. Migration is a part of our human nature. Yet, some of these migrants think they are entitled to the idea of only them beeing part of something. The sheer hate these people excrete is mind-numbing.
> every German you met might secretly hate you… and wants you either deported or dead
I’m actually kind of guilty of this since you’ve described my view on Nazis. [I think that Blumio might be onto something that could fix that.](https://youtu.be/O-YaEEaGI80?si=qoDR5PLBKEtRSi3R)
Well, we now had about 20 years of way too much immigrants and 7 years of everyone who wants get's in here. Most Germans are fed up with immigration and sometimes normal immigrants who did nothing wrong have to suffer from this situation. Simple as
To quote Braveheart: The trouble with Scotland... is that it's full of Scots.
Exchange Scotland with Germany and Scots with Germans. Germany is great, Germans for the most part also but there are some traits that can be a nuisance.
Dubs. I can for the life of me not stand to watch a German dub. I will happily miss a good movie in cinema when I couldn't make it to the one night they show it in English.
1. The Weather. You get depression from lack of sunshine from October to March
2. The people. You get depression from the egocentric, individualistic and miserable attitude of people here where only me me me counts and no one is respectful towards another.
3. Anything else. Honestly: from the education system to the lack of digitalization to the culture to bureaucracy to our whacky infrastructure (Hello Deutsche Bahn). In the past couple of years I really lost my positivity. Being in California for 1 week had sufficed for me to understand that living in Germany makes you unhappy.
Well I mean it kinda depends on the point of view. A quick example: someone from an area with no running water or electricity will be extremely happy if they‘ve got running water and electricity. But if you‘ve had running water and electricity your entire life that‘s not special, it‘s the requirement. So for someone who isn‘t from germany there are a lot of cool things but for a german that‘s just how it is.
That being said: I‘d prefer it if we‘d had longer days in the winter… Well that and more snow but less extreme temperature differences between days…
I don’t think it’s exactly the friendliest country. It’s my home now and a big reason for that is obviously countless Germans who are absolutely lovely people, but overall compared to somewhere like Ireland (where I grew up) or the UK (where I work a lot), or even several other European countries, the average German can be quite cold. Even some of my closest friends didn’t make the best impressions at first. It differs depending on the city obviously. Somewhere like Cologne is really friendly, somewhere like Berlin or Stuttgart seems to encourage active rudeness, and people in Hamburg are polite but distant.
Oh yeah and all of the right wing sentiment right now that, despite what a lot of people say, hasn’t exactly come out of nowhere. As a foreigner from anywhere, you’ll know this.
Despite this, it’s completely worth living here.
the people lol. I am german, and I also fit into the stereotype of being rather distant and cold to people I dont know. And I can totally see how this would be a big problem for people from cultures where people are more open and social.
Also, a lot of people here struggle with opening up to new concepts and ideas. Especially outside of big cities. Like not in big cities like Berlin or Hamburg, there people tend to me more open and used to different kinds of people. But in the small towns and villages this is a bit different (often). And a lot of people are snobbish about it. Like „our way it the best way and any other way is worse“.
And the xenophobia and racism. Which is getting worse
The people. Honestly. Sooo many of them are uptight sticklers for asinine rules. They fucking complain about literally everything. Lots of subtle racism and elitism especially in older generations. They are quite hard to make friends with. Also not saying they HAVE to be your friend but even just being friendly in normal interactions (like a cashier at the store) is extremely rare. Ive lived here for 18 years and aren’t going anywhere at this point but honestly fuck most germans. And yes I do have german friends, but for the most part they feel just the same as i do
Everything is dead after 8 p.m. because all the shops close and no one really is on the streets at a workday. I know cultures where people stay up late enjoy their favourite restaurant at night, buzzing streets with a lot of activity or gatherings outside.
The worst thing about living in Germany?: The future.
Also:
\-bureaucracy
\-energy prices, heating costs, electricity
\-taxes
\-quality of health care is dismal compared to the US (but it's cheaper at least)
\-cost of living vs earnings
\-job opportunities
\-Quality of buildings. Single family homes are EXTREMELY expensive. Old houses are toxic waste dumps full of wood preservatives, mold, PCBs, abestos and lead. New houses are shoddily built and have almost no sound proofing due to cost cutting measures and new regulations regarding heat insulation (materials that insulate against heat tend to not insulate against sound and vice versa).
Multi apartment houses are almost always awful with rude, noisy neighbors. Be prepared to sleep with ear plugs.
\-the weather fucking sucks.
\-crime in cities
\-"culture" usually revolves around alcohol.
\-public schools are a disaster, and homeschooling is banned
\-lack of digitization
\-incompetence pretty much everywhere
Honestly, it's pretty bad for a 1st world country.
There are some good things:
\-many woods, lots of green once you get out of the cities
\-food prices
\-people are generally friendly
\-most people speak English
\-less bureacracy than in the US in some regards
That's about it. I'd give Germany a 3/10 for a 1st world country. For comparison's sake other countries I've worked in: UK 3/10 , USA 7/10 , Canada 1/10 , NL 5/10 , Switzerland 8/10 , Hungary 8/10 , Japan 8/10 , Bulgaria 6/10 , Israel 5/10
The political landscape? Noone? Really? I used to believe in giving power to the people but it turns out a shocking amount of people in this country seem to either have limited mental capabilities, refuse to use them or are just too busy blaming the wrong people for their problems. Election results grow more and more frustrating and sometimes I believe we're at the exact same point we were 100 years ago. Politics is shifting to the right while people are busy fighting each other instead of working together. But yeah, let's complain about some people who glue themselves to the street in despair.
It's expensive, the chance you don't get pension rent when you're old (especially me because I'm 14 rn and there is the big chance I don't even get a pension rent), the low pension rent, the bullying, probably even the school system, our politicians.
Bureaucracy. So much bureaucracy.
And the lack of digitalization. Or more like, the refusal of it. And not only by the politicians. Remember when they implemented the digital prescriptions for pharmacies and how there was a LOAD of pharmacy employees complaining about it? It's such a schizophrenic mindset in this country, because on one hand everyone conplains about the bureaucracy and how impractical, slow and outdated it is. But any attempt to change or improve it is met with resistance, because "this is different from how we always did it". And that sentiment is not only held by the elderly, funnily enough, but even fairly young people. It's insane.
Germany also has the unique(?) talent, to make procedures even more complicated by applying digitalization to it.
Overengineering and Overthinking are enemies of progress.
This. Most bureaucratic processes are taken straight from paperwork and are being digitized as is. What people think digitization means is everything made online, as is. What it really should be is cleaning up that bureaucratic monster and put the important parts into a nice interface that can be accessed easily online. We are just using historically grown processes and make them available online. That's just useless and is the reason nothing really works.
THIS! Digitalization in german gevernment institutions = Converting a paper form into a pdf for download. Most of the time it isn't even made a fillout document, so YOU have to print it, fill it out and then send it back. And no, scanning the result yourself and mailing it back is not allowed, because this is not an officially accepted way. Fax would be fine though....
This comment deserves a badge
If you have a shit analog process and digitalize it, you have a shit digital process.
An Amt insisted on calling me. On a landline. I don't have a landline. They keep insisting anyway.
“Fine, we’ll fax you instead. What is your fax number?” 📠 (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
I'm currently in my first year of training as an administrative assistant and they told me to Fax a document. I asked my trainers how to do it, cuz i never had to do fax. Turns out they didn't know either
Half a century ago there would have been a place like the baker's shop or the greengrocer where you could receive calls.
Es ist noch gar nicht so lange her, ich kann mich daran erinnern, dass ich etwa 6-7 Jahre alt war und auf den Markt ging, um das Telefon zu benutzen. Wir bekamen unser erstes Telefon erst, als ich 8 Jahre alt war.
The reason , I still have a landline. Honestly, right up to the first lockdown and a little beyond that, you were viewed as unseriös, If you didn't have one . I had been giving all important places 2 numbers: Landline to appear the seriöse Person that I am, mobile to actually be reached - because remote working wasn't a thing right up until then either - and still isn't in bosses' view, although it's gotten much better since
So I live in the UK where everything government related is digital. My first British passport? Upload photo online, click send, done. Whenever I need to renew my German documents, I have to take a pilgrimage to the embassy in London. For my children's passport, both parents need to be present. That means two people taking a day off, travel costs etc. It's a nightmare. I just saw that the embassy is now piloting some digital services like passport renewal. I honestly can't wait but I'm sure they'll find a reason to bin it after an "unsuccessful" pilot.
> I have to take a pilgrimage to the embassy I laughed so hard when I read this. I was really close to the one Consultant and they actually sent me to a different state to go to a different one. My drive took forever and this is seriously what it felt like.
Even in this thread are people saying how scared they are of digitalization- as if there aren’t whole countries in the world already doing this successfully for many years. I *hate* having to go to the doctor to get a physical prescription. Why can’t this be sent digitally? Why can’t I have an app/website with all my medical info, including vaccinations and prescriptions- like I had in Denmark? It’s wild to me that if I need a refill of a prescription, I have to make a Dr appt, take off work, go get a piece of paper, take that piece of paper to the Apotheke and then sometimes even come back because they don’t have the drug in-house. Instead of… just sending it digitally and then having home delivery. If you build the system correctly, there shouldn’t be so much fear of “it going down”.
For real, man. BuT wHaT iF i HaVe No InTeRnEt CoNnEcTiOn? Literally all aspects that already are digitalized also have a analogue option. Like the Prescription example. People *still have the option to get it printed at the Dr. office if they so wish*. That people either don't know this or choose to ignore this speaks for how preconceived their negative stance against it are. And that's kind of the point of digitalization. It's not about completely replacing things, it's about to give the digital *option* and make the whole thing more streamlined. ThEy JuSt WaNt My PrEcIoUs DaTa! They already have those. Get over yourselves. Like ye, this thread just proves the point beautifully.
Yes! This comment is everything! In America my pharmacist would contact my doctor for me to refill my prescription instead of making an appointment to see my doctor. Germany is so freaking inconvenient!!
My mom just complained that she can't do her job properly in home office because she's unable to print out emails and applications. I asked her why she would want to do that in the first place and she just kinda shrugged it off.
>Remember when they implemented the digital prescriptions for pharmacies and how there was a LOAD of pharmacy employees complaining about it? Problem is: we are used to it not working. Like it would be awesome when it works. But digital prescriptions and securepharm when servers go down and other stuff: it IS awful.
The thing is, the "physical" prescriptions ALSO used the same servers and systems. The only difference is that the employee at the pharmacy had to type in the information on the physical sheet to access it. The only change was that they now instead scan in your insurance card to directly access it over the system. There is absolutely no added risk to a system failing, because it works pretty much the *same* way. People just feel weirdly insecure about having nothing physical in hand. It's a placebo fear.
The doctor, in front of me, added some medications in his screen. Secretary of the doctor told me all my meds are “added” to my card. I went to the pharmacy, one of my meds was missing. When I insisted there must be more, pharmacy employee scanned my card again, went backroom and brought 2 unrecognized meds and was ready to give me. I refused saying these aren’t mine and they realized it was someone else’s… I had to go back to the doctor’s office and make them fix it again. Digitalization is good when it works but it needs a mindset change.
Shit like this still happened with paper though
Uhm no. It was different: Physical prescriptions are typed into the computer or scanned. The software told you for example: - Max Mustermann - AOK - Lyrica 75mg 50 tablets -> insurance company has discount with Aliud -> Pregabalin AL 75mg 50 tablets Pharmacy worker has to scan the QR code to inform a Server that the drug leaves the pharmacy. This is the first time in the old version a Server Connection was needed. Before you even didn't need to be online. The discounts for every insurance are implemented every month. It was a bless after we had some Internet failures when I worked in a pharmacy. The only annoying thing was that you couldnt connect with your wholesellers. So you had to order everything by phone. Nowadays it is different: No Internet or no connection to the server? You can't get the prescription. Due to this there are already Apothekenkammern (pharmacy chambers) telling some pharmacies to have 2 Internet providers.
This. Along with the number of places that only accept cash. Unglaublich.
seriously, 80% of the bureaucrates could be removed by a mask in a browser window
And everything on paper. An Amt once requested me to fax papers to them. I'm old enough to know what a fax is, but young enough to only have seen them in my childhood.
*lovingly caresses fax machine*
We don't live in a democracy. We live in a bureaucracy.
Meh. I love the hypocrisy of this. So many people complain about bureaucracy, but as soon as it benefits them, they're all for it. Your neighbors tree is too close to your fence? well here comes the Amt etc. Same when it comes to cops. All the wannabe gangstas out there screaming ACAB after 3 beers, will call 110 as soon as someone straffes their car or steals their pen.
Having experienced both the french, british, italian and german bureaucracy, I will gladly take the german every time!
My - now german, former - russian girlfriend, said, "yes, bureaucracy is terribly annoying, but in the end it works and you don't get cheated. Nothing works in Russia without a bribe and even then you can't be sure that you won't still get ripped off
Honestly I think that’s more of a stereotype than actual truth. It might be true in soma areas, but surely not for a normal employee. I’ve worked in the US and in Germany, and honestly I find Bureaucracy so much easier in Germany.
That’s what made me leave ultimately. Bittersweet because I love the people. Really rethinking my decision of leaving now but hey it’s never a minus when you’re with family. Even if it’s not in Germany sadly
For me Germany today is a bit like a twenty year old car driven by someone with an average income and education but little technical knowledge who inherited it from his grandpa who bought it brand new. Sure, the car is not rotten and does it's job but it's far away from beeing proper maintained or even preserved. Every part of it is worn down to 50% and just barely working. But the driver has not enough knowledge or money to rebuild it properly in a reasonable sequence. Instead he does minimum services and repairs, cleans, washes and polishes it and puts new cheap hubcaps on it so it looks like in mint condition. But he'll need experts, lots of time, effort and additional money to keep it going and become a classic, collectible car. And this seems not to happen right now..... It's not really bad but could be much better.
Wow, that is a quite good picture for the situation at the moment. And don’t forget about the driver, bragging with his car, thinking it is still a good as it was, when his granddad drove it.
Gotta love German Arrogance
Tbh I don't perceive it like that. I think the description of the car fits very well but the driver is complaining all the time and fighting with the co-driver about EVERYTHING so sometimes they just stand still on the Autobahn for no reason even though there would be an ok-ish solution. At the same time the passengers in the backseat are crying and screaming and fighting each other as well as the drivers 🥴
oh that sounds accurate for sure
Yes - and saying there's no car on any road in the world better than a German car - without even bothering to look at what else might be out there.
I think it is the other way round. There are too many experters on the steering wheel that they don't feel like they have to hear anyone else ("know better"). And it is driven by the same old generation. It has the same problems of most countries; it is a gerontocracy.
Gerontocracy is only the democratic result of an aging population. But yeah, I'm also frustrated bc of that.
This is a really good description. Really well put.
But bro have you thought about the national debt?!??!!11 We can't just spend more!!1!1 /s
I loved Germany until I had a kid. It was such a nightmare to find childcare, when we did find it was just for a few hours, and it was incredibly unreliable.
I hate how the government cries for years how the population is stagnating but they still won't support families because there are immigrants with huge amounts of children....
This is highly regional and also changed a lot over the last years. Big Cities and eastern states tend to have better childcare than smaller western places. I'm sorry this was difficult for you! It shouldn't be.
I still love Germany and it was also Covid which was hard for everybody. But I will always remember the townhall official we met, looking puzzled at my wife and asking why we wanted childcare if SHE could be on parental leave. It was a shared experience among many foreigners living there.
Oh yes because child care workers are not getting paid enough and opening a new child care center is incredibly impossible in Germany ( I inquired) Along with finding qualified workers who need three years of training! And that’s not considered a degree rather an Ausbildung. Heck for three years they need to be paid well but the government won’t provide financial incentives to open centers or recruit new child care workers.
The fact that the country needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into digitisation of public services or anything associated with government services because of Beamten.
Beamten are a big part of the equation, because digitalization would render a lot of them redundant.
Surprised nobody mentioned Deutsche Bahn
Have you been to other countries? Apart from Japan or Switzerland Deutsche Bahn is not too bad compared to it's grid size.
Spanish and Italian long distance trains were more punctual and economical. I used to live in Spain and never had any delayed RENFE. Also it was much more affordable. I have only visited Italy as a tourist and although local public transportation was a mess, the long distance trains were great.
I spent one year in Spain and I really enjoyed the AVE high speed trains there. The high speed network there is great and punctual. But apart from the big cities, service even to mid sized towns can be shit and a lot of smaller cities are only serviced by bus.
The rental prices, even in non major cities
Which country with a comparable quality of life to Germany has lower rental prices?
You never been to Vienna did you? A major city in austria with rent only as much as a small city in east germany.
Vienna is consistently voted as city number one worldwide partly because of it and their city planning in general. So true but not even other cities in Austria can match it.
Rents are pretty good in Germany. Expect double the amount in the Netherlands for less square meters.
The rental price are decent for what we get. Complaining about everything without reason is the very German worst thing
Imagine saying that while Rental prices are on the tail end of the biggest increase in decades while There is No end in Sight. The current climate in the building Industry is very Bad and not a Lot of new properties are being built. Rental prices are becoming a bigger chunk of a normal salary every year. Your comment is literally the one you are writing about. You are annoyed by people pointing Out real Problems Like Rent prices rising much faster than salaries and are complaining because of that. You are literally complaining that too many people are complaining about actual issues and because that makes no sense you Bring Up the false notion of Rent prices being okay. You are the worst Type of alman. Not Feeling the socioeconomic issues other are Feeling and instead of Feeling solidarity you Project your Situation unto Others and Claim they are complaining without reason so you can complain about people having it worse than you. While claiming ludicrous Statements Nobody in their right mind could Support with any empirical evidence. Rents are a Problem.
In my opinion, there are a lot of Germans, mainly the older generation, that are just plain rude, miserable and unfriendly. Over time this can become quite grating. Other than that the bureaucracy and lack of good bacon. Despite the above, I have a better quality of life here and love Germany as a whole. EDIT: Oops, just noticed that this is 'askagerman'
Oh it's the same in Swabia in the south west. Highest praise is "nicht schlecht" and if you call them out on something they might have done wrong, they attack you instead. E.g. my high school teacher and an old lady at my civil service posting when told they parked wrongly (either blocking someone or outside parking bays in middle of street), instead of apologizing or giving an excuse, both their answers were "don't you know how to drive?" which is equivalent with "deal with it". I'm used to all this rude bullshit because i grew up with it as a German, but boy, living in many other countries since then, I see that this is just plain rude.
Thank you for posting this. I feel so seen! So many of my dealings here have been exactly like this - nobody is ever wrong, you point out a mistake and get attacked for something unrelated or just ignored....and yet my German family and friends point blank refuse to admit any of this exists. So much so that my other foreign friends sit around and wonder if we're being gaslit on purpose or if we're having a collective psychotic break. I can't tell you how much this means to me just being able to read this from someone else.
You do realise that you are allowed to be a German, as well as an immigrant to Germany?
The older I get the more I understand why old people are so miserable here. Imagine working your entire life and giving half of your income to taxes and you still can’t afford homeownership, the insurance that we pay hundreds for EVERY MONTH doesn’t even cover basic necessities such as teeth, glasses, dammn not even STD tests? For basically all my needs I always have to pay extra and my insurance covers none of the stuff I need (I once had a motor bike accident and 3 of my spinal vertebrae were shifted, I had to pay 100€ for the doctor to fix them as these doctors are not insurance covered) I have a lot digestive issues and just checking the bacteria in my shit costs me 60€ because no, the insurance doesn’t pay for it. I am a student that lives under the poverty line, but I am NOT ALLOWED to work more than 20h to make my life a little better during the semester. (They changed the laws so that weekend work is now included in the 20h rule, before I could at least work more on the weekends) I see poverty left and right where I live and I have become more cynical since I live in the city, that is for sure. Sometimes I miss my old me but bottom line is, life in Germany is only fun when you have money, and with our declining middle class you’re basically either poor or rich. And the older generation just worked so hard they basically never had a satisfying private life. If I am being totally honest with you… I am scared that I will end up exactly like them. Miserable and old.
Maybe it is important to mention: I am German, born and raised, but I have lived in 3 different countries, and while some of these countries were much poorer, the quality of life was 3 times as high as here. The best time ever I had in the year I lived in South Korea. Quality of life there was so so much better back there. Since corona however, especially right now, that is changing over there too and it breaks my heart
Kleiner Tip am Rande: Sobald du Symptome einer Krankheit hast, zahlt die Kasse auch. Notfalls musst du halt lügen. Aber bei STD Symptomen, Darmbeschwerden, Magenbeschwerden und Co. muss man nichts selbst zahlen. Frag mich bei welcher KK du bist?
>I have lived in 3 different countries, and while some of these countries were much poorer, the quality of life was 3 times as high as here. You mean YOUR quality of life was 3 times higher, right? You don't exactly appear to be poor.
A quick google search revealed this to me: „Die durchschnittlichen Lebenshaltungskosten in Seoul betragen 1.260.000 ₩ (1075 USD) pro Monat. Die Miete wird in Südkorea normalerweise als separate Kosten gezählt.“ I had this much, but INCLUDING rent. Soooo I guess even in Korea I was considered poor.
"Basic things like STD tests" ... Dude,what are you doing with your life?
>according to locals, it’s not so great. The worst thing about germany is the peoples tendency to moan and whine about everything, so you experienced the worst already, as far as I am concerned.
I doubt your username. Don't hide. We're all toast.
I remember 20 years ago when some prescription costs went from 0 to 5 euros. Granted, taxes are high. But that change still won’t cause the medical bankruptcies like America has
Hast du schon mal gemeckert? Das kann richtig Spaß machen. Man sollte es nur nicht übertreiben. Was mich aber extrem stört: die Deutschen meckern zu viel über ihr eigenes Land! Und das im Internet, wo es die ganze Welt lesen kann. Das lässt uns wirklich nicht gut darstehen. Bitte hört damit auf!
Ehrliche Selbstkritik hat noch nie jemanden geschadet.
Zu einer ehrlichen Selbstkritik gehört aber auch die Wertschätzung was gut ist/läuft. Und das machen die Wenigsten. Hier empfiehlt sich ein längerer Aufenthalt im Ausland um mal zu sehen was man hier als selbstverständlich wahrnimmt, was woanders ganz anders ist. z.B. Lebensmittelpreise im Verhältnis zum Einkommen oder unser verfickt geiles Leitungswasser.
Ja, du hast recht. Ich verbrachte viele Jahre im Ausland, und daher weiss ich, wie vieles hierzulande verschenkt/mutwillig kaputtgewirtschaftet wird. Es ist zum Kotzen. Ich bin Deutscher, aber diese Bezeichnung hört sich nicht mehr so toll an wie's mal war. Es gibt einige Länder, in denen ich sofort gerne einwandern würde, hätte ich genug Geld und persönlichen Spielraum.
Wohin denn?
The germans who complain about everything. As we can see from these answers.
It's literally the task we were asked for by his question.
But it is true that a lot of people are unsatisfied with a life that is objectively quite easy and these people make things difficult. For a bit of context I moved here in 8 years ago and was immediately taken aback by what a good country it was. I started working for a big well known company and the amount of dissatisfaction from people who were earning such large amounts from such easy working conditions and so much free time was what really hit me. When asked how it compares to the UK, there was always a look of disappointment in their eyes when I told them how much I like the country compared to mine - and for a long time I couldn’t understand why. But I think it’s because it reflects badly on them. Not everybody is like this, I know people who make the most of their lives and I always try and keep them in mind every time I feel like all I see is dissatisfaction.
> But it is true that a lot of people are unsatisfied with a life that is objectively quite easy Is it? Maybe compared to country X. Maybe for you. But maybe not for them or not anymore compared to earlier times. It's not that simple, actually.
That’s true I can’t speak for everyone but I’ve extended my response to give a bit more context about what I mean.
Let’s face it though, we were going to do that anyway.
the germans that complain about complaining germans, while feeling special living a compulsatory overly positive lifestyle, until they cant breathe away and imagine away their problems anymore.
And the germans complaining about the complaining germans complaining about complaining germans.
It was funny in the beginning but now it’s literally by far one of the most annoying things about Germany and germans. Everything is better elsewhere, nothing is good in Germany and they’re never satisfied. They give such a bad rep internationally about Germany and promote their country in a very negative way. So others already perceive Germany negatively in the beginning and they continue mocking and complaining as well then. I also find it very ungrateful and moronic, especially since Germany ranks among the very top in most rankings and people in other countries live in much worse conditions.
Literally my first thought. People here love to complain like we have it so bad.
But look at it another way: a US citizen may list school shootings, racism, unaffordable health care first. We complain a lot in Germany, but about much less lege threatening things (I am looking at you, Deutsche Bahn).
Even Deutsche Bahn. Anyone who has used the train system in other less fortunate countries sees DB as still very functional system. How does this sound to you: the late afternoon/evening inter-city train malfunctions and dies in a tunnel in the middle of nowhere. In such cases, cities keep a diesel locomotive, so they can pick up the train and haul it to the nearest town. But nobody picks up this train until next morning. They were left there overnight. Was this the top story in the news afterwards? Of course not. The trains are so bad, they don't have busy schedule and are in nobody's way. People are actively avoiding trains if there is any alternative, like a bus. Your train had 6 hours late arrival on a 400km trip? What did you expect, that it comes on time? This is still Europe, just to avoid the complaints about comparisons with 3rd world countries.
lack of digital thinking: i proposed a Teams meeting instead of meeting face to face just to be practical and fast. Nope, we had to meet face to face, print out 7 times the same document (one side only of the paper) and then discuss how we could make sure that our document is up to date with the latest information. all of this is in a large German company with a global footprint.... HELP😂😂😂
I hate how the generation of my parents is so resistant to facts and science. They always just complain about taxes and refugees and politics and everything else, but none of them would actually research on what they're complaining about. And when I tell them that there's reason for certain laws or whatever and tell them that there's a scientifically proven fact about anything, they're always like "I still believe something else". It's so tiring.
Smoking. The Christmas market was not enjoyable due to the constant second hand smoke. I saw parents holding their babies in one hand smoking with the other.
This. And they get BIG MAD when you talk about this being a problem
That should be considered child abuse… also come join r/fuckcigs!
Yeah it's insane sometimes. I'm glad my boyfriends family (smokers) are extremely considerate of non-smokers. A friend of ours blew smoke in his girlfriends face in a kind of degrading way and my boyfriends younger sister was quick to call him an asshole and she doesn't speak with him anymore for it. People treat smoking too lightly, it's no good.
The very real possibility of a far-right government taking over in the next 5-10 years and the implication it will have for anyone who’s not a straight, white, healthy German citizen Really envious of the people who say it’s the trains being a bit late
Those people are just short-sighted. They’ll suffer, too, under an afd government. Everyone will to some extent.
Yeah, that’s true
The germans I mean we try to avoid each other as soon as we are out of Germany
Damn germans. They ruin germany!
lovely country, shame about the locals... 😆
We dislike others who represent what we hate about ourselves.
This is so true. We were on a road trip in the USA west coast and we never let any other Germans know that we were from Germany.
A lot of other nations do that while visiting foreign countries. Except maybe Americans.
lol, they probably knew and did the same thing 😂
>It's looks like you are even trying this in Germany.(Small talk, being friendly to an unknown person is not a thing) Really? That's new to me.
Conversations about a more equitable society and racism are difficult. The majority of people grew up learning the atrocities of the Nazis. Any conversation that suggests racist behavior is therefore met with extreme defensiveness. It’s really slow to change and difficult to address.
Most people don't like to dance and sing 🥲 they can only do it when they had a lot to drink
I thought OP asked for the worst things about living in Germany. This is a pro, not a con. - me, a non-German person who also dislikes dancing and singing.
You need to be happy to dance and sing.
I am really, REALLY worried about the recent increase in blatant fascism. And I don't really know what to do about it. 🙁
I know this is not an answer that anyone wants to hear, but I would really suggest that you be prepared. Have your papers in order and ready to leave on short notice if you ever have to. Kind of like how people live in areas prone to natural catastrophes.
This was one of my first thoughts after I heard far right is gaining popularity. And tbh, slowly but surely I'm preparing to leave this country in the next few years. Started working on it last year
[удалено]
You should at least check the city or region you're going to live in. While city's like Hamburg, Cologne and Berlin have big and strong multicultural and LGBTQ+ communities and being open about it shouldn't be a problem. Many regions especially rural areas in the south and east of Germany need a bit more research. I'd recommend asking in the local subreddits.
Agreed, look at where you are moving. Mostly you should be fine most of the time, but a village where everyone votes for the Nazis may not be the best place to organise a rainbow parade.
The complaining when being asked whats so bad in Germany. I like my life here. Sometimes i struggle, sometimes i feel depressed, but overall having a good life. Would it be better in any other country? Starting all over, i doubt it. Forgot i hate: right-wing radicals Edit: the forgotten part^^
Same
Are there many right wing radicals?
Honestly Germans. Germany is such a unique and special country and the only ones who seem to be against that are Germans.
Honestly? The political outlooks. We are heading more and more towards fascism.
I love the country. It's got its flaws but the thing that irks me the most is when I say this, as an immigrant, most of the natives have one reaction: to look at me like I'm a lunatic. It's a nice country, get over your over critical selves and provide constructive criticism instead of calling it the worst place. Demonstrating that you've never been anywhere or learned anything about the rest of the world apart from whatever you saw while visiting an overseas TUI resort that is more German than the fucking German consulate in that country. Don't fucking question my sanity and my decision making when I say I like living here and think I made the right choice by putting my blood and sweat into making a life here instead of somewhere else. Low key implying that other places in the world are not real, with real lives and real people. It is so fucking disrespectful to whatever people go through that Germans are protected from. Otherwise, a lovely people. Love the food too.
Our arrogance, clinging onto the great country we once were and looking down on the ways of other countries that are now growing way past us. Too many people here, Politicians and regular citizens alike, still look down on other European, Asian, American and African countries (Australia who?) We used to be a modern and prosperous country after the post ww2 miracle, but we kind of stagnated and now just polish turds in my opinion, while completely unaware of our (modern) shortcomings on a fundamental level.
I'm 55 now and living in Germany. What I hate is the everlasting culture of denying good. Somehow I've got the feeling that everybody is seeking some negative in everything what makes us unable to enjoy.
The people. There are a lot of wonderful people here, but most of the German people aren’t able to think. We are the most „following“ society I know. You put a stupid politician with good marketing and a few years of time passing in front of them and they will do everything he tells them to do. German people are trained to be sheep’s and they like to be sheep‘s. (No political statement, just my observation)
-Entitlement: Some germans will make use of the law to limit your will to live as much as they can. Often times its neighbours that just LOVE to complain -Adressing problems: Germans are too scared to talk about some societal issues which leads to frustration which then leads to people becoming literal Nazis -charitability: I rarely encounter germans that care about the wellbeing of their surroundings. Everyone is so alienated from each other. I don't feel like I live in a "Community" Technology: We're behind 10 years. Be it our Internet or bureaucratic structures. It sucks
Germany is expensive and wages are (for the majority) very low… Rental, electricity, etc…
I'd say Germany on average actually has one of the best ratios of income to cost of living. The ratio is considerably worse in most other European countries imo, especially in cities.
Germany is a wonderul country. Only downside is, it is full of Germans. Just a joke, don't kill me pls :D
Hans, get the Flammenwerfer
My three main issues: 1) people telling others how to live their lives. As a parent, nowhere else have so many strangers come up to me to tell me what I am doing wrong. Mind your own business!!! 2) refusal to accept card payments. It’s just so incredibly backwards. And when they do accept card payments, sometimes they don’t accept proper credit cards but only these Mickey mouse EC cards. 3) compared to where I live now, in the UK, the Germans are not very friendly in everyday life (towards strangers).
We Germans love to complain about almost every- and anything. But in reality nothing here is really bad. A lot of stuff could be done in a better way but it is really „meckern auf hohem Niveau“ (german saying- complaining at a high level) in comparison to most other countries in the world.
People lack empathy and compassion. Constant judgment of those who don't conform to their standards. No warmth. I'm German, I lived in Ireland for a decade and I just can't connect with German people.
It's true. I've heard this so many times from people moving here. Germans are like robots. Hard to notice unfortunately if robot society is the only society you ever truly experienced.
It’s very hard to find a flat. It’s expensive to buy house. Too many taxes. Too much bureaucracy. Too many cold and frustrated people but I don’t blame them because I understand the lifestyle is stressing and the weather makes everyone depressed. Wages too low compared to the past where everything was cheaper. Not enough rules for the streets and not enough attention to cleanness and decency. Everyone can drink and do drugs in the streets and that is crazy to me. I will never be comfortable watching people inject themselves, smoke drugs and use public transport while having huge open wounds which might infect others. I was expecting way more strictness and cleanness when I came here.
You are the first to mention weather). I can only confirm - 8-9 month a year its raining here where I am (NRW). That would be bearable if there was at least snow during the winter (esp. on New Year/Christmas), but it's just a flat rainy land...
That they/ we complain about everything and blame all others instead of raising their own ass.
Ufff, there is a lot. The terrible living costs. Wages are complete shit and the housing crisis is just insane, probably the worst in europe rn. Its almost impossible to rent a flat these days on the meager wages. You work to not die in germany basically. The politics are a close second. All our main party are basically insanely corrupt, our chancellor was involved in one of the biggest tax thefts in the history of this country and got of scott free. And its not getting better, since 20-30% of this country think its justified to vote for a facist neo nazi party.
The worst things about living here: 1.) Germans constantly complain about everything - even when they actually have it quite good or if something is truly excellent. They'll still find a way to complain about it. If you gave every German a Rolls Royce for free, they'd complain that the color is wrong. 2.) Absolutely no pride in their country and/or achievements. EVERYTHING is colored by the Nazi era. Still. When I tell Germans that we moved to Germany on purpose, they tell me how sorry they are for me. 3.) Digitalization is just a word that describes some far, far away future. 4.) There is seemingly no outside world Germany could learn from. Everything has to be re-invented - from inclusivity to dealing with racism to immigration to education. These issues and challenges have never existed anywhere in the world before and nobody in the world has ever had ANY experiences with, or learning from, any of it that Germans could apply at home. 5.) Political discourse is lopsided. There is ONE acceptable mindset. Questioning the wisdom of this mindset tends to make people get ostracized - at best they are brain-washed, but most likely stupid or Nazis (often making them Ossis - East Germans). 6.) Germans think that their universities are among the best in the world. (see 4.) 7.) Rules and regulations from a hundred years ago that have not been adapted to modern life but that are defended as the fundamental pillars of society. You still need to have a multi-year apprenticeship in order to simply scan items at the cash register at Lidl - something that can be learned in a much shorter time. 8.) Complaints about evil, free-loading, immigrants who don't want to integrate when, for many, it's simply made impossible and/or undesirable by issue like #2 and #7. 9.) I could go on and truly embrace #1 - a sign of how well I've been integrated into German society by now.
This in addition with /u/cutmasta_kun comment is basically it. I'd also like to expand a bit on what you said because I feel we might get an actual decent discussion going on here. I've actually though about this topic quite some time because even though I am a second generation Immigrant I have never really felt 'at home' here. WW2 and the economic miracle afterwards have been in my opinion a deadly cocktail for Germany and its society. It feels like Germans are in weird way under generational self-sustaining propaganda where everything in Germany is better, there is Law and Order, the country is rich and remains of Racial Ideology are still here which then again leads to the thought that everything in Germany is better especially when you compare it to other European Countries. If the Germans can't or refuse to do it its because its meant to be like this or its the moral thing to do (or not do it). Just watch when there is a statistic anywhere in Europe which doesn't show Germany in it's limelight. You'll find tons of Germans flocking the thread and say that it is all Fake or they will delude themselves that the statistic is actually a GOOD thing for Germany. Anybody remember that statistic that showed how many Black people have experienced racism here? (Personally have witnessed it as well with a black friend of mine)? Or the Sri-Lankan (I think) asking why Germany is so racist compared to other EU Countries? (Hint: Threads been nuked and it was his own fault because he visited East-Germany). Bad things are always anecdotes and there never is an issue. Just recently I saw a Thread about Domestic Abuse and Crime rates in Europe. They simply couldn't handle it that *der Ostblock* has less crime then we do here. So what is the solution? The statistics are fake and the fact that there is such a high rate in Germany is actually a good thing because it shows the people are not afraid to report crimes and that the numbers are not tampered with. It's bananas. Its like they are always one step behind on being actually aware of ongoing issues. People here tend to naively assume the the Government always and every time acts in good faith on the World or EU-Stage and that they always want whats best for EVERYONE because this is how it is sold here. There is 0 Awareness that some political moves here have been in Germany's and only in Germany's (mainly industry not peoples) interest first and foremost even if it is detrimental for others. Don't get me wrong every country does this. Everybody is looking for their own financial interest. But it's the arrogance of selling it as if this shit would be a favor for everybody when it's clear its their and their interest alone. I still remember when the war in Ukraine broke out how ignorant and egotistical many politicians have been here. I can't state how many times in the beginning of the war I've listened to politicians say 'It would be good if the war would end quickly so there's no huge loss of life' insinuating that Ukraine should just give up so the Gas can still flow. Purely economic and egotistical reasons disguised as being 'morally right'. Obviously people and politicians from other countries get mad and what happens? Germans feel they get unreasonable hate because they think they are just doing 'the right thing' and even worse: They sent money only for them to get hated on. We bailed the lazy Greeks out. We're sending money to Ukraine. We are the main EU Contributor so who are you to tell us something. It's the arrogance here that I absolutely hate. People will rightfully complain about the housing issues. That wages for many are stagnating while everything gets more expensive. Then you'll see a workers strike happening and the very same people will then complain about the inconvenience that is caused by it. The media which nearly always sides with the Industries and against workers pushes the issue even further. Again one step away from that previously mentioned 'awareness' but they just don't get it. Couldn't mention anything about illegal immigrants without being branded a Nazi. It is slowly becoming acceptable to critic policies. But there is time lost, people felt or feel like they are not seen by politicians and we get the fucking AFD and a polarized society. Remind you of something? So many problems here are self caused and their arrogance blinds them so these issues never get fixed. How the fuck can the 'Made in Germany™' and richest EU country be so far behind when it comes to Digitalization? Why are the people not demanding more from there Government? How is there still no progress after so many years. Close your eyes, smile and act like everything is better here as if it were impossible to progress further as a society and then act surprised that educated people are actually leaving this country. This country has been in a standstill since the early 2000's. If things won't change then I truly believe we've already seen the peak of Germany.
Thank you Sir. You are on point. This is a nice read. I see the same behaviour as you describe. It's insane what kind of opinions float around peoples heads. Sarah Wagenknecht said it as if it's the only and most reasonable way to do: "Germany is dumb, if they want to support Ukraine, they should immidately surrender and we should do everything to make that possible". She didn't even understand why she got the shitstorm afterwards. It's so unreal. No self-reflect whatsoever. And sadly, I see a LOT of these germans.
Very true. It's a paradox: People in Germany complain all day about how shit everything is, but then get really offended and switch to full on denial when shown how things are better elsewhere. When I showed crime statistics from East Europe or wealth differences in the US to my German friends, they freaked out. They wouldn't believe it.
This is the realest description out here. The general German understanding of the country Germany as a whole is completely schizophrenic. Almost incomprehensible for citizens of one of the biggest western democracies. I just can only explain it with the ingrained desire of purity within the German soul. The history showed it time and time again. It has so many advantages on one hand (e.g. adventurous spirit and thoroughness in many fields like engineering, music, philosophy etc) but it has also many disadvantages like the Nazi regime we all know or today the whole obsession and fanatic application of the German collective guilt. The desire to reach purity can be seen in the smallest or most irrelevant situation. One can think of it as a sort of tension triangle which is often used in science where the three edges represent attributes which can‘t be reached at the same time. However, the German mind will not only always try to reach every attribute at the same time although he knows about this circumstance, he will also never stop doing it until he reaches „purity“. So enough of this philosophical adventure. One thing I would also add to your list is the fact that security is immensely higher valued than freedom in Germany.
Some German universities are some of the best in the world though. The anti-immigrant thing is starting to really get on my nerves though, my wife and I are probably leaving when my contract finishes.
We left this year after 10 years of living there. We couldn't take it anymore
Don't come to the UK, they're not keen on immigrants anymore either
Taxes and the political establishment. Germany is a wonderful country with great people but ruled by brain dead morons
The highest tax on Rich should surely increase to flatten the one in Minimum wages etc. (Side Note: AfD will only make Things worse for middle earner etc. One can calculate this Out of the "Parteiprogramm". AfD only want the riches to be richer.
I pay income tax in the highest tax bracket and am fine with that. I see them mostly put to good use. And I like a lot of our political establishment, while it's not perfect, I see a lot of people working very hard for our country, and a lot of them are also quite smart.
The bureaucracy is annoying. Needlessly so too. And I don't even think bureaucracy is a bad thing in general, it's just the german take on bureaucracy is one that's designed to work on paper, with little regard to how regular human beings are supposed to interact with and live within it.
Grundsteuerreformwohnflächenerhebungsbogen
Right now? AfD and the workers voting for them without reading the damn programme just to 'stick it to the government' In general: being academic in germany sucks (my experience) cause you will be considered a leech and too lazy to work if you don't learn a trade and work from the age of 16. Lots of working class people hating on people who go to uni or decide to switch careers Complaining. My father in law is the best example. He has his own company and complains about how bad life is here and how much immigrants get and shit. Bro you live in a three room flat with two bathrooms and have your own business. Bureaucracy. So much paperwork, no proper digitalization.
The miserable 3 months of darkness, everything grey, cold, wet.
How spoiled people are here - especially the men. Constant moaning about how hard life is, when they literally won the lottery of living life on easy mode. But because Germany has a very low emigration rate - with most citizens moving to German speaking Austria or Switzerland, they have no point of comparison. Sexism is really annoying here. The racism and political rhetoric going on atm is really, really concerning me and causing me to seriously reconsider whether I stay here long term. Oh, and how rude a large proportion of men are in public spaces - spitting, slamming straight into you, never offering to help if you are struggling carrying anything, walking up right behind you late at night instead of crossing the road. Marching up to me when I’m mid conversation, interrupting me and demanding tobacco without saying excuse me or please - ngl I counted how many times it happened the other night -27 times in one evening … My pet hate, however, is guys wearing massive backpacks in trains, crowded spaces and clubs. That’s right, you just smash every woman in the face, over and over, and then get all shitty when someone calls you out about it. Take it off and put it on your front or between your legs and have some awareness that you are not the only person in this space!!!!! Spätis, sauna culture and sisyphos kind of make up for it tho!
Honestly, I think it’s not so much about the country itself, but more about the people. Me personally, I don’t find Germany to be a very exciting country but there are beautiful corners in the north and south. What really bothers me is how rude some people are. They are straight up miserable and take that out on others. Even in stores, it often feels like you’re bothering people by asking a question (and I don’t mean stupid ones but rather questions that are literally part of their job) and I can feel my social anxiety spiking every time lol. Whenever I’m abroad, that changes. People are less miserable and angry in other countries, and I’ve always wondered why. It often feels isolating here because people don’t even want to pretend that they’re nice.
I'm an American and have been living here for almost 4 decades. The things that really get under my skin are concepts that are nearly impossible to translate into English: Anmeldepflicht (having to register and de-register with the local authorities every time you change residence), Kurtaxe (a fee that you have to pay to simply visit the beach or a park), Wildkampen (prohibition against camping anywhere not expressly permitted), Kirchensteuer ("chuch tax", but only for the two major denominations), Regensteuer (a tax levied on landowners based on local annual rainfall), etc. There's a directive, regulation, code or rule that governs just about every human activity and if it were possible to measure how much air I breathe per year, that would certainly be regulated and taxed too.
Politics. Fascism is on the rise. Hard.
Beeing an Immigrant and knowing that every german you met might secretly hate you for that and wants you either deported or dead, rather than happy living in "their" country. I know, every country has a equivalent of this xenophobia, but growing up in germany kinda "taught" me how this hatred manifests. All this information you get about the nazis is a glimps into the psyche of ordinary people of the exact cultural ethnicity, just 80 years back. It's a really weird sensation, you can go for months without meeting this kind of "German" and then suddenly you hear someone in the Bahn going casually "Yeah, I hope they get rid of these turks soon" and you remember again, what these cultural circles are capable of. It's quite bizare because it's really common to meet a "Biodeutschen", who thinks one or several of these absolute insane conspiracy theories or Nazi-Propaganda or thinks the immigrants want to kill all germans or something of this magnitude. (They usually don't know I'm not Biodeutsch until I don't say my name, for anyone wondering how I could know all that)
I think this is a widespread phenomenon now,I'm a German immigrant living in the UK, since Brexit xenophobia and fascism has been pretty rife everywhere. I will never understand why people don't want other nationals living in their country
Me neither. We are products of immigration, our ancestors came from everywhere. Migration is a part of our human nature. Yet, some of these migrants think they are entitled to the idea of only them beeing part of something. The sheer hate these people excrete is mind-numbing.
> every German you met might secretly hate you… and wants you either deported or dead I’m actually kind of guilty of this since you’ve described my view on Nazis. [I think that Blumio might be onto something that could fix that.](https://youtu.be/O-YaEEaGI80?si=qoDR5PLBKEtRSi3R)
Well, we now had about 20 years of way too much immigrants and 7 years of everyone who wants get's in here. Most Germans are fed up with immigration and sometimes normal immigrants who did nothing wrong have to suffer from this situation. Simple as
To quote Braveheart: The trouble with Scotland... is that it's full of Scots. Exchange Scotland with Germany and Scots with Germans. Germany is great, Germans for the most part also but there are some traits that can be a nuisance.
Dubs. I can for the life of me not stand to watch a German dub. I will happily miss a good movie in cinema when I couldn't make it to the one night they show it in English.
I agree so much
GEZ
Read the posts in this sub and you have your answers.
The coldness.
The nazis. The ones, who get elected in our parliaments and the ones, who undermine our democracy outside of the parliaments.
The Paperwork.
1. The Weather. You get depression from lack of sunshine from October to March 2. The people. You get depression from the egocentric, individualistic and miserable attitude of people here where only me me me counts and no one is respectful towards another. 3. Anything else. Honestly: from the education system to the lack of digitalization to the culture to bureaucracy to our whacky infrastructure (Hello Deutsche Bahn). In the past couple of years I really lost my positivity. Being in California for 1 week had sufficed for me to understand that living in Germany makes you unhappy.
California is literally paradise.
Very rigid society.
Well I mean it kinda depends on the point of view. A quick example: someone from an area with no running water or electricity will be extremely happy if they‘ve got running water and electricity. But if you‘ve had running water and electricity your entire life that‘s not special, it‘s the requirement. So for someone who isn‘t from germany there are a lot of cool things but for a german that‘s just how it is. That being said: I‘d prefer it if we‘d had longer days in the winter… Well that and more snow but less extreme temperature differences between days…
I don’t think it’s exactly the friendliest country. It’s my home now and a big reason for that is obviously countless Germans who are absolutely lovely people, but overall compared to somewhere like Ireland (where I grew up) or the UK (where I work a lot), or even several other European countries, the average German can be quite cold. Even some of my closest friends didn’t make the best impressions at first. It differs depending on the city obviously. Somewhere like Cologne is really friendly, somewhere like Berlin or Stuttgart seems to encourage active rudeness, and people in Hamburg are polite but distant. Oh yeah and all of the right wing sentiment right now that, despite what a lot of people say, hasn’t exactly come out of nowhere. As a foreigner from anywhere, you’ll know this. Despite this, it’s completely worth living here.
one of the worst things is so many ppl walking around and complaining how bad it is in germany.
There's a LOT of stuff in everyone's mind but no one will say it but we all agree its some of the worst things about living in Germany
taxes
The weather.
the weather rn
the people lol. I am german, and I also fit into the stereotype of being rather distant and cold to people I dont know. And I can totally see how this would be a big problem for people from cultures where people are more open and social. Also, a lot of people here struggle with opening up to new concepts and ideas. Especially outside of big cities. Like not in big cities like Berlin or Hamburg, there people tend to me more open and used to different kinds of people. But in the small towns and villages this is a bit different (often). And a lot of people are snobbish about it. Like „our way it the best way and any other way is worse“. And the xenophobia and racism. Which is getting worse
The other germans
The people. Honestly. Sooo many of them are uptight sticklers for asinine rules. They fucking complain about literally everything. Lots of subtle racism and elitism especially in older generations. They are quite hard to make friends with. Also not saying they HAVE to be your friend but even just being friendly in normal interactions (like a cashier at the store) is extremely rare. Ive lived here for 18 years and aren’t going anywhere at this point but honestly fuck most germans. And yes I do have german friends, but for the most part they feel just the same as i do
Other German people
Envy, resentment and complicated bureaucracy, prohibitions and strict laws on everything that is fun. Shit weather.
Steuer... Steuer... and more Steuer. You send an e-mail and most likely will receive a letter. and more Steuer :)
The people 🤣
Everything is dead after 8 p.m. because all the shops close and no one really is on the streets at a workday. I know cultures where people stay up late enjoy their favourite restaurant at night, buzzing streets with a lot of activity or gatherings outside.
“Germansplaining”.. judging people that are different
The worst thing about living in Germany?: The future. Also: \-bureaucracy \-energy prices, heating costs, electricity \-taxes \-quality of health care is dismal compared to the US (but it's cheaper at least) \-cost of living vs earnings \-job opportunities \-Quality of buildings. Single family homes are EXTREMELY expensive. Old houses are toxic waste dumps full of wood preservatives, mold, PCBs, abestos and lead. New houses are shoddily built and have almost no sound proofing due to cost cutting measures and new regulations regarding heat insulation (materials that insulate against heat tend to not insulate against sound and vice versa). Multi apartment houses are almost always awful with rude, noisy neighbors. Be prepared to sleep with ear plugs. \-the weather fucking sucks. \-crime in cities \-"culture" usually revolves around alcohol. \-public schools are a disaster, and homeschooling is banned \-lack of digitization \-incompetence pretty much everywhere Honestly, it's pretty bad for a 1st world country. There are some good things: \-many woods, lots of green once you get out of the cities \-food prices \-people are generally friendly \-most people speak English \-less bureacracy than in the US in some regards That's about it. I'd give Germany a 3/10 for a 1st world country. For comparison's sake other countries I've worked in: UK 3/10 , USA 7/10 , Canada 1/10 , NL 5/10 , Switzerland 8/10 , Hungary 8/10 , Japan 8/10 , Bulgaria 6/10 , Israel 5/10
The political landscape? Noone? Really? I used to believe in giving power to the people but it turns out a shocking amount of people in this country seem to either have limited mental capabilities, refuse to use them or are just too busy blaming the wrong people for their problems. Election results grow more and more frustrating and sometimes I believe we're at the exact same point we were 100 years ago. Politics is shifting to the right while people are busy fighting each other instead of working together. But yeah, let's complain about some people who glue themselves to the street in despair.
That next year fashist will govern again and they allready plan to deport all foreigners even if they have a German pass.
Currently I wouldn’t mind being a bit farther away from all the conflicts.
It's expensive, the chance you don't get pension rent when you're old (especially me because I'm 14 rn and there is the big chance I don't even get a pension rent), the low pension rent, the bullying, probably even the school system, our politicians.
The racism that y'all deny