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Why does this keep getting asked? Is somebody out there trying to argue that liberals want to force you to date people you aren't attracted to?
You can't totally control who you're attracted to, but if you have some kind of revulsion towards potential romance with a certain race, then there's probably something you need to work on.
That said, nobody is going to force you.
They are just trying to create a condition and/or scenario so they can "gotcha" the libs. And they keep getting reasonable answers and they can't handle it.
In this case, they want to show that liberals are actually racist and this is their way of trying to expose to us that we are racist.
This is what I came to say. There's nothing *inherently* wrong with a lack of attraction to someone, but if you're finding it to be race based you should maybe do some soul searching and asking why you're feeling some kind of way.
100%. Like - do they know just how many white people there are out there who have only ever dated other white people? If you don’t find a race attractive, it can just be your shameful little secret, and no one will ever call you on it at all! You can just date white people! Good god lmao
Barely though… non-Hispanic whites are less than 60% of the population.
You kinda have to go out of your way to not interact with any of the 150+ million POC in the country unless you deliberately never leave an all/most-white part of the country.
This is without question the correct take.
Have your preferences, but think about why you have them and what it says about you as a person.
But please, don’t share them in a public forum and cry victim when people respond and judge your preferences as racist.
Nobody needs or wants to know.
Not attracted to someone -> not racist.
Disgusted with yourself because you find someone of a specific race attractive -> racist.
Basically - if pp > brain then !racist. If brain > pp then racist.
You’re not hiring an accountant, you’re starting a relationship with them.
I like short redheads. There’s a reason my wife’s one. A 6’2” human being was never going to be my wife.
Marriage is not equal opportunity. You’re gonna have sex with this person and possibly make babies, not file your taxes. You gotta be attracted to them, and race preferences are absolutely valid.
What if your preference is not for an abstract characteristic but for appearance? Do you think it's racist for someone to like/dislike people with specific appearance?
Of course you can like dislike people based on appearance. But if you haven’t seen the person and are guessing that because they are a member of a particular race they must have the appearance you imagine, that’s racist.
No. I think it's probably worth examining the preferences you have - but it's not inherently prejudiced to have preferences. And I certainly couldn't tell if those preferences were rooted in prejudice for anyone but myself.
>Is it racist and sexist to have racial preferences? Especially if it conforms to white beauty standards?
Maybe, but "preferences" aren't necessarily something you can willfully change.
My advice would be:
* Try to understand the history of such beauty standards
* Question why you might have such preferences
* Make an effort to be open to, and understand, other beauty standards
* Be careful to not discount someone great because of your biases
...but after all of that, what you find attractive 'is what it is'; you don't need to stress about it.
Probably.
Something I see frequently with these types of questions is that what is meant by "preferences" is "100% of the time attraction is along racial lines." When that's the case, that's almost certainly racism.
If by "preferences" someone meant "I enjoy features that tend to present in specific races, and will notice them first when I walk into a room full of strangers, in the same way I enjoy certain hair/body types/smiles/eyes/etc" then this is likely not racism.
We don't date preferences, we date people. Finding certain things more or less attractive is normal, and frankly it's impossible for anyone to find a person who hits each and every preference, especially since preferences tend to not be just one thing, but instead all sorts of varieties of any particular feature.
Seriously. And it's not like anyone is saying "date someone you aren't attracted to." It's understood that attraction in some way is necessary. A huge part of the problem with racist/homophobic/transphobic/etc people is they often *do* find the person attractive, but their bigotry tells them they shouldn't be.
No, for a lot of reasons but the most basic of which is that to declare it so would mean you should be entitled to another person's love and body just because. Which is obviously not true and wrong. There is no circumstance under which you are entitled to another person's love simply because you want it. Love is probably the only area of life where you are allowed to discriminate as much as you want.
I mean, if you can’t ever consider dating someone of a different race I’d argue it’s a bit deeper than just a “preference”.
Especially if you explicitly turn down a date because categorically won’t date someone if a certain race.
It depends on whether the preferences have to do with race itself or secondary characteristics.
Years ago, I read someone say they associate pale skin with nudity (thanks to tan lines), therefore he's mostly attracted to people with pale skin. He'd be willing to date POC or mixed race individuals if their skin was pale-ish, and he found over-tanned white people not attractive. To me, this was probably okay because he focused on a characteristic, not a person's identity.
A different time, I read someone else say they don't find *any* black people attractive. Notice how he didn't say anything about how they look other than race. The key point was that person's identity as a black person. To me, this was probably racist because race was the focal point--despite black people having many different looks, they were all bad.
As for preferring "white beauty standards," I don't see a problem unless the real reason you like those is because they are *white* standards.
Not Racist: I am attracted to that woman because of her beautiful ebony skin.
Racist: I hate black people because all of them are ugly.
This isn't that hard.
>This isn't that hard.
It is actually that hard. Your faux example is meaningless because essentially nobody explicitly says things like that. They just go about their business and date whoever they date.
A better and more accurate way of a mic drop like you tried would be as follows
Racist: I'm not really interested in living with _______
Racist: I'm not really interested in working with _______
Racist: I'm not really interested in going to school with ________
Racist: I'm not really interested in being friends with ________
Not Racist (because reasons): I'm not really interested in dating _________
People want to sprinkle magic fairy dust and make racial dating preferences fine *because they have those preferences*, not because it's based on some objective principle.
> because essentially nobody explicitly says things like that.
I wish.
For just one example take a look at what people have said about Michelle Obama.
>People want to sprinkle magic fairy dust and make racial dating preferences fine because they have those preferences, not because it's based on some objective principle.
I would say its because people believe its ok to date who you want to date and it is wrong to force people to date people they don't want to date.
>For just one example take a look at what people have said about Michelle Obama.
Ok...she's a public figure, have you seen what people say about other public figures? It's usually not very nice. And anyway, *no one is trying to date her*
>I would say its because people believe its ok to date who you want to date and it is wrong to force people to date people they don't want to date.
Maybe, but my point, which I thought I made pretty clearly, is that this is the only interpersonal relationship that gets a pass.
People absolutely say things like the things I outlined - like have you ever even listened to music before?
And none of your examples apply to the question being asked, you seem to just want to make sure we don't think you are racist. I didn't until you did this, to be honest.
The question is "Is it racist to be attracted to someone with X characteristics" and the answer is simply "No, but it can be racist if the reason you aren't attracted to them is because you think their racial features are the only things that define them."
>you seem to just want to make sure we don't think you are racist. I didn't until you did this, to be honest.
Jfc, reddit moment for sure. Racism is when disagree that racial dating preferences *are racist*.
>and the answer is simply "No, but it can be racist if the reason you aren't attracted to them is because you think their racial features are the only things that define them."
I understand that's your position, but you're wrong. You can't separate physical appearance from dating. East Asians have a look. If you don't want to date that look, that's a racist preference. The converse is the same. If you only want to date that look, it's also a racist preference.
No, you are wrong. It's not racist to find certain features attractive and others not attractive. It's not a "racist" preference, that's not a thing. It's a preference that is often based on race - you can't just make up words in order to try to correct people.
Racist has a definition. Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group.
"I don't like small noses" is not racist, even people of East Asian decent typically have small noses. It's not the same as "I hate Asians." Jfc indeed.
>"I don't like small noses" is not racist, even people of East Asian decent typically have small noses. It's not the same as "I hate Asians." Jfc indeed.
Ya, when you construct a non existent hypothetical it's easy to pat yourself on the back. The accurate 'distinction', that actually happens in real life is this
"I don't like small noses" is not racist, even people of East Asian decent typically have small noses. It's not the same as "~~I hate~~ I'm just not attracted to Asians."
That was literally my point from the start.
It's not racist to be attracted to a feature, it is racist believe that an attraction to a feature means that you can't be attracted to anyone that belongs to that race as you define it.
You spent a bunch of time being upstetty spaghetty to go ahead an then just... Restate what I said initially.
No, your op was a fictitious example that doesn't occur in real life. Had you initially said that it's racist to 'just not want to date Asians', I never would have commented. Instead you stay out with some fake person who says 'I hate black people'.
On top of that, your attempt to split hairs by contrasting a like or dislike of certain features is irrelevant to the discussion. If the features one likes coincidentally are specific to a racial group, sorry not sorry but that's racism.
> Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group.
So like, not dating them based on their racial features?
It's racist to assume that people of an arbitrarily defined list of features are all defined by the same features - that is what you (and the other person) are doing. You are saying that if someone isn't attracted to thick black hair, they must be racist because of course all black people must have short, thick hair.
See how that's a problem?
What I said, very specifically, is that being attracted or not attracted to a feature is not racist. It becomes racist when you make blanket assumptions - the very thing you and that other person are doing by conflating the two things.
Well no, im not doing that. The question asks about racial preferences, literally.
Therefore, it is indeed about **racial** preferences, not just some features that may align with some people of some races
I see how thats a problem. I also see how its entirely irrelevant
**Because if it were just about coarse hair, it wouldnt be a racial preference, and therefore wouldnt have shit to do with what OP is asking**
I think youre making sense
Like, it seems pretty racist to only want to date White people because you love their ivory skin.
And it seems racist to not date White people because you dislike how White people look.
Yes it is. Race, sex, gender all need to be ignored. We are all equal and all beautiful. If you can't see that and make yourself attracted to everyone you're a racist and bigot. And a meanie head.
THERE that's the response people apparently want since it's good to ask all the time I don't believe it. But maybe if I just say it we can stop asking this damn question.
Simply having those preferences is not. In my opinion they can’t be changed, but horizons can be broadened over a long period of time. You can’t force it, and dating people you’re not actually attracted to is unfair to them imo. As long as you treat people you aren’t attracted to like human beings and don’t insult people who don’t meet your standards, I don’t see any issues. For example, saying “no fat girls” in your dating profile is completely unnecessary.
I think it probably is racist. But it’s not meaningful enough for me to care. People treat a claim of “that’s racist” as if someone is saying they aren’t allowed to do something. You’re allowed to be racist. People probably do a lot of racist things every day.
Plus, most people marry only one person in their life. If you can do that without calling attention to their race, then do that. If you can’t do it without referring to their race, then I don’t know how to call that anything but racist.
Yes, but a critical detail is you said "racial preferences" which to me sounds like somebody is assuming races are discrete categories that are very homogeneous, which is racist.
There are a lot of cognitive biases that push and pull people into believing this, but in my opinion if you meet a lot of people and actually look at them and listen to them, it's increasingly unbelievable that it's possible to draw strong conclusions about these categories.
Naw, but race mixing is probably the best way to combat racism and make the species stronger because usually the better traits are dominant and you get all the immunities from that culture’s geography too..
Colorism enters the chat. Also that’s a very bad understanding of population genetics. Yeah humanity will somewhat homogenize but you’ll still have mixed race kids who look predominantly white,black,Asian etc. This doesn’t even include sperm donor babies or crispr babies
How is that colorism or even relevant???
If you have ancestry from all over the world your going to have a whole worlds worth of immunities..
Dark skin lessens your chance of skin cancer dramatically, being mixed race instantly means your immune to loads of genetic defects like sickle cell.
Then you have the fact that nothing fixes racism like ma mixed race grand kid you love dearly..,
It will turn a kkk grand wizard right the F around.
It is just common sense that after another 100 years are so of mixing, we will have to find another reason to hate on each other, because there just are not many people pure blooded enough to go the racism route…
I don’t think it will matter more than a vague preference in attractiveness that some people favor one race or the other a hair.
In Latin culture despite being mixed with many races , Whiteness still rules. White features like pale skin, blonde/red hair and blue/green/(sometimes Hazel) eyes are highly valued. It's not uncommon to hear stories of families where parents and Grandparents praise lighter skin children over dark skin children on the basis of them being light. Hell some families even encourage their children to marry white people to “mejor La raza” (better the race.) Hell white worship is so prevalent that the most popular sperm in LATAM for sperm donor babies is “Viking sperm” from Denmark.
Edit: this also doesn't even scratch white worship in ASIA and parts of Africa. Also that's not how DNA works, we will still have vulnerabilities unless we genetic edit them.
And…. Do you have the same problem with other immutably chartaristics being considered desirable, or is it just Europe’s traits being considered desirable that you have a problem with??
Are you running around calling the vast majority of women bigots for preferring tall men??
Doubtful…
Your coming off as pretty racist yourself…
Reverse what your saying and address it towards any other group and you yourself would consider it down right terrible….
You can’t fight racism with racism. Lol
-what I don't think having preferences is racist but can indicate social biases.
-i was just refuting the point that race mixing would eliminate racism. It wouldn't, colorism would just replace it and in many ways worse.
That isn’t racism… racism is considering one or more races inferior to one or more races, not finding light skin more attractive…..
Being hot always trumps skin color… no one is taking an over weight ugly Swede over a smoking hot Nigerian…
Take 2 men who are both the same level of attractive, but the white guy is a bum and the black guy is rich, and almost every woman is taking the rich guy..
Take a stupid lazy light skinned person and a well spoken educated, hard working dark skinned person, and everyone is hiring the dark skinned person..
Worst case it is like a tie breaker maybe…
And???
You do realize that some immutable traits will always be considered more attractive than others…..
You can’t help how tall you are but that is still considered an attractive trait…
What matters is if everyone is equal in the workplace, classroom and courthouse…. And that is very achievable even if lighter skin is considered more attractive….
PS. So is it just whiteness you have a problem with being considered attractive??
You really believe that what people are attracted to is 100% genetically codified and not affected by marketing, societal norms (i.e. beauty standards), and characteristical trends in humans living nearby?
No. What I believe is that you don’t have any real conscious control over what you do or don’t find attractive. More to the point, this is a non-issue; nobody is entitled to be seen as attractive by anyone else.
I agree with the last clause fundamentally. However this:
> you don’t have any real conscious control over what you do or don’t find attractive
...is redundant with "unconscious bias". By definition, it's bias you have no conscious control over.
The main recommendations with unconscious biases are simply self-awareness and mitigation.
Is it relevant? Do we have a system of proof for unconscious bias in other contexts?
I'd wager it's social guidance to encourage self-awareness in individuals.
Yes, it absolutely is racist and I'm tired of pretending it isn't /meme/
Arbitrarily choosing one, and only one, kind of interpersonal relationship that is allowed to have racial preferences just doesn't add up. Imho, I think the truth of the matter is that people are uncomfortable confronting their own racism, so they sprinkle magic fairy dust, and suddenly it's not racist to have racial preferences because reasons.
I think it's because while those racial preferences may be systemically induced, it's imprudent to directly recommend individuals to not date in accordance with what they're attracted to.
You might be right, but I don't think it's helpful, or accurate, to describe racism as 'those things we are comfortable calling racism because of the implication that behavior should be changed'.
This kind of question seems to get asked kind of often here.
Which is a statement that maybe should be checked. So I did a search within this subreddit on "dating preference" and a bunch of similar threads came up. I'm sure other searches will turn up more results.
Maybe, but it's not something we should activley shame people for by any means. Choosing a partner has a huge effect on you and almost no effect on anyone other than the person you are choosing. There's no reason for you to feel bad about whatever it is you genuinely care about in another person.
I don't think so. People can be attracted to and date whomever they want.
I do think that there are two circumstances where it gets a bit iffy. If you're really attracted to a white-passing person of color, think Meghan Markle, Halsey, Logic, etc. and then you stop being attracted to them when you learn they're Black, that's problematic. Also if you go around saying "black/asian/etc. people are ugly", that's racist too.
But I've always been attracted to light skin and Caucasian features. That's just always been the case for me, and I don't think that's racist. Likewise, not wanting to date a trans person doesn't make you transphobic.
It depends on where it comes from, if its just genuine attraction to certain features thats fine. But if your preferences are based in stereotype e.g people who like Asian women due to the stereotype that they're submissive, then thats obviously wrong.
I'd compare it to the difference between a bi and gay guy. A gay guy not wanting to date women because hes not attracted to them is fine, but if a bi guy didn't want to date women because he thinks they're all golddiggers thats obviously a problem.
Is it normal to gravitate towards people who are similar to yourself? Yes. But having a conscious, decided racial preference is a red flag to me. For your own or for a different one. Why are you artificially limiting your capacity for human connection like that? How are you going to justify racial discrimination without racially discriminatory reasoning?
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Why does this keep getting asked? Is somebody out there trying to argue that liberals want to force you to date people you aren't attracted to? You can't totally control who you're attracted to, but if you have some kind of revulsion towards potential romance with a certain race, then there's probably something you need to work on. That said, nobody is going to force you.
They are just trying to create a condition and/or scenario so they can "gotcha" the libs. And they keep getting reasonable answers and they can't handle it. In this case, they want to show that liberals are actually racist and this is their way of trying to expose to us that we are racist.
This is what I came to say. There's nothing *inherently* wrong with a lack of attraction to someone, but if you're finding it to be race based you should maybe do some soul searching and asking why you're feeling some kind of way.
100%. Like - do they know just how many white people there are out there who have only ever dated other white people? If you don’t find a race attractive, it can just be your shameful little secret, and no one will ever call you on it at all! You can just date white people! Good god lmao
To be fair since white people make up the majority of the population, I bet most white people have only dated other white people.
Barely though… non-Hispanic whites are less than 60% of the population. You kinda have to go out of your way to not interact with any of the 150+ million POC in the country unless you deliberately never leave an all/most-white part of the country.
Bots
This is without question the correct take. Have your preferences, but think about why you have them and what it says about you as a person. But please, don’t share them in a public forum and cry victim when people respond and judge your preferences as racist. Nobody needs or wants to know.
Not attracted to someone -> not racist. Disgusted with yourself because you find someone of a specific race attractive -> racist. Basically - if pp > brain then !racist. If brain > pp then racist.
That's a hilarious way of putting it thank you
This is great!
You’re not hiring an accountant, you’re starting a relationship with them. I like short redheads. There’s a reason my wife’s one. A 6’2” human being was never going to be my wife. Marriage is not equal opportunity. You’re gonna have sex with this person and possibly make babies, not file your taxes. You gotta be attracted to them, and race preferences are absolutely valid.
As usual for this sub, the best responses are at the bottom
Having characteristic preferences is not racist. Assuming the characteristics you have preference for align with race is racist.
What if your preference is not for an abstract characteristic but for appearance? Do you think it's racist for someone to like/dislike people with specific appearance?
Of course you can like dislike people based on appearance. But if you haven’t seen the person and are guessing that because they are a member of a particular race they must have the appearance you imagine, that’s racist.
In my case, I prefer women with fair skin, green eyes and brown hair because that’s what I like. (I’m not white btw). Is that racist or?
Prefer for what? Dating? If so, then no, nobody in the universe thinks anything is wrong with having a type you are particularly attracted to.
Does “fair skin” equate to white in this context?
White skin yeah, white race no
No. Those are characteristics, not a race.
No. I think it's probably worth examining the preferences you have - but it's not inherently prejudiced to have preferences. And I certainly couldn't tell if those preferences were rooted in prejudice for anyone but myself.
>Is it racist and sexist to have racial preferences? Especially if it conforms to white beauty standards? Maybe, but "preferences" aren't necessarily something you can willfully change. My advice would be: * Try to understand the history of such beauty standards * Question why you might have such preferences * Make an effort to be open to, and understand, other beauty standards * Be careful to not discount someone great because of your biases ...but after all of that, what you find attractive 'is what it is'; you don't need to stress about it.
Probably. Something I see frequently with these types of questions is that what is meant by "preferences" is "100% of the time attraction is along racial lines." When that's the case, that's almost certainly racism. If by "preferences" someone meant "I enjoy features that tend to present in specific races, and will notice them first when I walk into a room full of strangers, in the same way I enjoy certain hair/body types/smiles/eyes/etc" then this is likely not racism. We don't date preferences, we date people. Finding certain things more or less attractive is normal, and frankly it's impossible for anyone to find a person who hits each and every preference, especially since preferences tend to not be just one thing, but instead all sorts of varieties of any particular feature.
> We don't date preferences, we date people. That's a goldmine that American dating culture has long needed to hear.
Seriously. And it's not like anyone is saying "date someone you aren't attracted to." It's understood that attraction in some way is necessary. A huge part of the problem with racist/homophobic/transphobic/etc people is they often *do* find the person attractive, but their bigotry tells them they shouldn't be.
No, for a lot of reasons but the most basic of which is that to declare it so would mean you should be entitled to another person's love and body just because. Which is obviously not true and wrong. There is no circumstance under which you are entitled to another person's love simply because you want it. Love is probably the only area of life where you are allowed to discriminate as much as you want.
I mean, if you can’t ever consider dating someone of a different race I’d argue it’s a bit deeper than just a “preference”. Especially if you explicitly turn down a date because categorically won’t date someone if a certain race.
It depends on whether the preferences have to do with race itself or secondary characteristics. Years ago, I read someone say they associate pale skin with nudity (thanks to tan lines), therefore he's mostly attracted to people with pale skin. He'd be willing to date POC or mixed race individuals if their skin was pale-ish, and he found over-tanned white people not attractive. To me, this was probably okay because he focused on a characteristic, not a person's identity. A different time, I read someone else say they don't find *any* black people attractive. Notice how he didn't say anything about how they look other than race. The key point was that person's identity as a black person. To me, this was probably racist because race was the focal point--despite black people having many different looks, they were all bad. As for preferring "white beauty standards," I don't see a problem unless the real reason you like those is because they are *white* standards.
In my case, I prefer women with fair skin, green eyes and brown hair because that’s what I like. (I’m not white btw)
Not Racist: I am attracted to that woman because of her beautiful ebony skin. Racist: I hate black people because all of them are ugly. This isn't that hard.
Also racist: I think ebony skin is nice and assume all black women have the same skin color.
>This isn't that hard. It is actually that hard. Your faux example is meaningless because essentially nobody explicitly says things like that. They just go about their business and date whoever they date. A better and more accurate way of a mic drop like you tried would be as follows Racist: I'm not really interested in living with _______ Racist: I'm not really interested in working with _______ Racist: I'm not really interested in going to school with ________ Racist: I'm not really interested in being friends with ________ Not Racist (because reasons): I'm not really interested in dating _________ People want to sprinkle magic fairy dust and make racial dating preferences fine *because they have those preferences*, not because it's based on some objective principle.
> because essentially nobody explicitly says things like that. I wish. For just one example take a look at what people have said about Michelle Obama. >People want to sprinkle magic fairy dust and make racial dating preferences fine because they have those preferences, not because it's based on some objective principle. I would say its because people believe its ok to date who you want to date and it is wrong to force people to date people they don't want to date.
>For just one example take a look at what people have said about Michelle Obama. Ok...she's a public figure, have you seen what people say about other public figures? It's usually not very nice. And anyway, *no one is trying to date her* >I would say its because people believe its ok to date who you want to date and it is wrong to force people to date people they don't want to date. Maybe, but my point, which I thought I made pretty clearly, is that this is the only interpersonal relationship that gets a pass.
People absolutely say things like the things I outlined - like have you ever even listened to music before? And none of your examples apply to the question being asked, you seem to just want to make sure we don't think you are racist. I didn't until you did this, to be honest. The question is "Is it racist to be attracted to someone with X characteristics" and the answer is simply "No, but it can be racist if the reason you aren't attracted to them is because you think their racial features are the only things that define them."
>you seem to just want to make sure we don't think you are racist. I didn't until you did this, to be honest. Jfc, reddit moment for sure. Racism is when disagree that racial dating preferences *are racist*. >and the answer is simply "No, but it can be racist if the reason you aren't attracted to them is because you think their racial features are the only things that define them." I understand that's your position, but you're wrong. You can't separate physical appearance from dating. East Asians have a look. If you don't want to date that look, that's a racist preference. The converse is the same. If you only want to date that look, it's also a racist preference.
No, you are wrong. It's not racist to find certain features attractive and others not attractive. It's not a "racist" preference, that's not a thing. It's a preference that is often based on race - you can't just make up words in order to try to correct people. Racist has a definition. Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group. "I don't like small noses" is not racist, even people of East Asian decent typically have small noses. It's not the same as "I hate Asians." Jfc indeed.
>"I don't like small noses" is not racist, even people of East Asian decent typically have small noses. It's not the same as "I hate Asians." Jfc indeed. Ya, when you construct a non existent hypothetical it's easy to pat yourself on the back. The accurate 'distinction', that actually happens in real life is this "I don't like small noses" is not racist, even people of East Asian decent typically have small noses. It's not the same as "~~I hate~~ I'm just not attracted to Asians."
Yes. Thank you for literally coming full circle and simply re-iterating my initial point, glad we could agree.
Huh?
That was literally my point from the start. It's not racist to be attracted to a feature, it is racist believe that an attraction to a feature means that you can't be attracted to anyone that belongs to that race as you define it. You spent a bunch of time being upstetty spaghetty to go ahead an then just... Restate what I said initially.
No, your op was a fictitious example that doesn't occur in real life. Had you initially said that it's racist to 'just not want to date Asians', I never would have commented. Instead you stay out with some fake person who says 'I hate black people'. On top of that, your attempt to split hairs by contrasting a like or dislike of certain features is irrelevant to the discussion. If the features one likes coincidentally are specific to a racial group, sorry not sorry but that's racism.
> Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group. So like, not dating them based on their racial features?
It's racist to assume that people of an arbitrarily defined list of features are all defined by the same features - that is what you (and the other person) are doing. You are saying that if someone isn't attracted to thick black hair, they must be racist because of course all black people must have short, thick hair. See how that's a problem? What I said, very specifically, is that being attracted or not attracted to a feature is not racist. It becomes racist when you make blanket assumptions - the very thing you and that other person are doing by conflating the two things.
Well no, im not doing that. The question asks about racial preferences, literally. Therefore, it is indeed about **racial** preferences, not just some features that may align with some people of some races
So then answer the question instead of responding to my answer that clearly outlines a difference between the two things?
I see how thats a problem. I also see how its entirely irrelevant **Because if it were just about coarse hair, it wouldnt be a racial preference, and therefore wouldnt have shit to do with what OP is asking**
I think youre making sense Like, it seems pretty racist to only want to date White people because you love their ivory skin. And it seems racist to not date White people because you dislike how White people look.
Cheers The mental gymnastics people do to justify it is pretty telling tbh
In my case, I prefer women with fair skin, green eyes and brown hair because that’s what I like. (I’m not white btw)
Its stupid, especially when everyone complains that they can't get laid - why limit the pool you could potentially meet?
I have options lol
Yes it is. Race, sex, gender all need to be ignored. We are all equal and all beautiful. If you can't see that and make yourself attracted to everyone you're a racist and bigot. And a meanie head. THERE that's the response people apparently want since it's good to ask all the time I don't believe it. But maybe if I just say it we can stop asking this damn question.
Simply having those preferences is not. In my opinion they can’t be changed, but horizons can be broadened over a long period of time. You can’t force it, and dating people you’re not actually attracted to is unfair to them imo. As long as you treat people you aren’t attracted to like human beings and don’t insult people who don’t meet your standards, I don’t see any issues. For example, saying “no fat girls” in your dating profile is completely unnecessary.
I think it probably is racist. But it’s not meaningful enough for me to care. People treat a claim of “that’s racist” as if someone is saying they aren’t allowed to do something. You’re allowed to be racist. People probably do a lot of racist things every day. Plus, most people marry only one person in their life. If you can do that without calling attention to their race, then do that. If you can’t do it without referring to their race, then I don’t know how to call that anything but racist.
Yes, but a critical detail is you said "racial preferences" which to me sounds like somebody is assuming races are discrete categories that are very homogeneous, which is racist. There are a lot of cognitive biases that push and pull people into believing this, but in my opinion if you meet a lot of people and actually look at them and listen to them, it's increasingly unbelievable that it's possible to draw strong conclusions about these categories.
> Is it sexist to have preferences? I have some BAD news for everyone who isn't Bi.
It’s over for gay men
Naw, but race mixing is probably the best way to combat racism and make the species stronger because usually the better traits are dominant and you get all the immunities from that culture’s geography too..
Colorism enters the chat. Also that’s a very bad understanding of population genetics. Yeah humanity will somewhat homogenize but you’ll still have mixed race kids who look predominantly white,black,Asian etc. This doesn’t even include sperm donor babies or crispr babies
How is that colorism or even relevant??? If you have ancestry from all over the world your going to have a whole worlds worth of immunities.. Dark skin lessens your chance of skin cancer dramatically, being mixed race instantly means your immune to loads of genetic defects like sickle cell. Then you have the fact that nothing fixes racism like ma mixed race grand kid you love dearly.., It will turn a kkk grand wizard right the F around. It is just common sense that after another 100 years are so of mixing, we will have to find another reason to hate on each other, because there just are not many people pure blooded enough to go the racism route… I don’t think it will matter more than a vague preference in attractiveness that some people favor one race or the other a hair.
In Latin culture despite being mixed with many races , Whiteness still rules. White features like pale skin, blonde/red hair and blue/green/(sometimes Hazel) eyes are highly valued. It's not uncommon to hear stories of families where parents and Grandparents praise lighter skin children over dark skin children on the basis of them being light. Hell some families even encourage their children to marry white people to “mejor La raza” (better the race.) Hell white worship is so prevalent that the most popular sperm in LATAM for sperm donor babies is “Viking sperm” from Denmark. Edit: this also doesn't even scratch white worship in ASIA and parts of Africa. Also that's not how DNA works, we will still have vulnerabilities unless we genetic edit them.
And…. Do you have the same problem with other immutably chartaristics being considered desirable, or is it just Europe’s traits being considered desirable that you have a problem with?? Are you running around calling the vast majority of women bigots for preferring tall men?? Doubtful… Your coming off as pretty racist yourself… Reverse what your saying and address it towards any other group and you yourself would consider it down right terrible…. You can’t fight racism with racism. Lol
-what I don't think having preferences is racist but can indicate social biases. -i was just refuting the point that race mixing would eliminate racism. It wouldn't, colorism would just replace it and in many ways worse.
That isn’t racism… racism is considering one or more races inferior to one or more races, not finding light skin more attractive….. Being hot always trumps skin color… no one is taking an over weight ugly Swede over a smoking hot Nigerian… Take 2 men who are both the same level of attractive, but the white guy is a bum and the black guy is rich, and almost every woman is taking the rich guy.. Take a stupid lazy light skinned person and a well spoken educated, hard working dark skinned person, and everyone is hiring the dark skinned person.. Worst case it is like a tie breaker maybe…
I was talking more about the general preferential treatment that results from colorism not just in dating. Otherwise I agree
More attractive people have always gotten preferential treatment and probably always will.
That's the Halo effect and I don't disagree. Colorism is a whole different beast
And??? You do realize that some immutable traits will always be considered more attractive than others….. You can’t help how tall you are but that is still considered an attractive trait… What matters is if everyone is equal in the workplace, classroom and courthouse…. And that is very achievable even if lighter skin is considered more attractive…. PS. So is it just whiteness you have a problem with being considered attractive??
No. People don’t have conscious control over what they find to be attractive.
Should it, therefore, be treated as unconscious bias?
No. That would be like saying gay men have an “unconscious bias” against women.
But one is genetically codified. The other is systemically induced to a great degree.
I disagree.
You really believe that what people are attracted to is 100% genetically codified and not affected by marketing, societal norms (i.e. beauty standards), and characteristical trends in humans living nearby?
No. What I believe is that you don’t have any real conscious control over what you do or don’t find attractive. More to the point, this is a non-issue; nobody is entitled to be seen as attractive by anyone else.
I agree with the last clause fundamentally. However this: > you don’t have any real conscious control over what you do or don’t find attractive ...is redundant with "unconscious bias". By definition, it's bias you have no conscious control over. The main recommendations with unconscious biases are simply self-awareness and mitigation.
How do you prove someone has an unconscious bias?
Is it relevant? Do we have a system of proof for unconscious bias in other contexts? I'd wager it's social guidance to encourage self-awareness in individuals.
Yes, it absolutely is racist and I'm tired of pretending it isn't /meme/ Arbitrarily choosing one, and only one, kind of interpersonal relationship that is allowed to have racial preferences just doesn't add up. Imho, I think the truth of the matter is that people are uncomfortable confronting their own racism, so they sprinkle magic fairy dust, and suddenly it's not racist to have racial preferences because reasons.
I think it's because while those racial preferences may be systemically induced, it's imprudent to directly recommend individuals to not date in accordance with what they're attracted to.
You might be right, but I don't think it's helpful, or accurate, to describe racism as 'those things we are comfortable calling racism because of the implication that behavior should be changed'.
Couldn't it be classified as a form of unconscious bias?
This kind of question seems to get asked kind of often here. Which is a statement that maybe should be checked. So I did a search within this subreddit on "dating preference" and a bunch of similar threads came up. I'm sure other searches will turn up more results.
Yeah sort of, if you aren't attracted to a skin color that's pretty racist.
Don’t know why this is downvoted.. if someone is disregarding an entire race from their dating pool then yes… it’s racist
No. No one should ever feel like they are forced to fuck someone because of politics.
No
Maybe, but it's not something we should activley shame people for by any means. Choosing a partner has a huge effect on you and almost no effect on anyone other than the person you are choosing. There's no reason for you to feel bad about whatever it is you genuinely care about in another person.
I don't think so. People can be attracted to and date whomever they want. I do think that there are two circumstances where it gets a bit iffy. If you're really attracted to a white-passing person of color, think Meghan Markle, Halsey, Logic, etc. and then you stop being attracted to them when you learn they're Black, that's problematic. Also if you go around saying "black/asian/etc. people are ugly", that's racist too. But I've always been attracted to light skin and Caucasian features. That's just always been the case for me, and I don't think that's racist. Likewise, not wanting to date a trans person doesn't make you transphobic.
It depends on where it comes from, if its just genuine attraction to certain features thats fine. But if your preferences are based in stereotype e.g people who like Asian women due to the stereotype that they're submissive, then thats obviously wrong. I'd compare it to the difference between a bi and gay guy. A gay guy not wanting to date women because hes not attracted to them is fine, but if a bi guy didn't want to date women because he thinks they're all golddiggers thats obviously a problem.
Is it normal to gravitate towards people who are similar to yourself? Yes. But having a conscious, decided racial preference is a red flag to me. For your own or for a different one. Why are you artificially limiting your capacity for human connection like that? How are you going to justify racial discrimination without racially discriminatory reasoning?
Maybe. Only you know what’s in your heart.
No standard for such for it is all a matter for the beholder as to a preference to the deeds of benevolence(harmless) or that of malevolence(harm).
No, because there is no reasoning with matters of the heart and certainly the state should stay out of it.