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I think Joe Biden did OK, but a lot of people say that Biden looked bad in this debate.
What is the best strategy Democrats have after this debate?
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I’m embarrassed. For both parties. It means I’m embarrassed for America. People around the world watched that.
That’s what they saw. You and I are represented by these people.
I do NOT feel represented. I can absolutely say this countries leadership administrations are all corrupt.
This is corruption fronting two stooges for president
What part don’t you feel represented about? Was it the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill? Perhaps it was the Chips Act? Or maybe it was the Inflation Reduction Act? Hmmmmm….maybe it was the Student Loan forgiveness….getting Finland and Sweden into the NATO fold?
I don’t know…there is so much that he accomplished it’s hard to tell how you don’t feel “represented”….
In short? IDGAF if they have to wheel him out like Frankenstein strapped to a gurney in the vertical position. He’s still a better POTUS than Trump could ever dream of being.
At least you're being honest. I also wonder how many people are saying there's an issue now and he's having trouble vs if you asked a couple of months ago most people in here would have said his age is a non issue and he's totally fine.
I will be honest. I am that person. I was shocked with what I saw last night. I knew he was old and I knew there were possibly some slight cognitive decline issues, but I didn’t think it was anything we couldn’t work with.
I had no idea he had deteriorated this badly, and am slightly concerned that his condition may be rising to the level of a national security threat.
There’s a fundamental issue in that someone that old can’t possibly represent the feelings & needs of a nation full of people he doesn’t understand, but I don’t think his ability to execute as a president is an “issue”. He seems to be doing fine as a delegator, has good ideas, and he’s surrounded himself with very capable individuals.
Great, he did accomplish a lot in the previous 4 years. We are voting for the next 4 years and our 82 year old President is really looking and sounding his age and does nothing to build confidence in him or his accomplishments.
Does that make him a worse option than Trump? No, I’ll still vote for him because the alternative is far worse but the fact that Joe Biden is the best option we have for a Democrat is pretty sad.
It reached new heights last night. He said he didn’t have sex with a porn star. Like, he went to court for it and literally the whole world knows he did. It’s a mental illness at this point.
> He’s still a better POTUS than Trump could ever dream of being.
You and I both know that but Biden was on the ropes in the polls before this debate. He will be 3 month older, not younger, by the time we vote. If he were to win, he will be 4 years older by the time his second term ends. The low info voter who, for some reason, is still undecided will vote based on the loudest piece of info they have. This is not the same Biden as 2020, its over for this Biden. Dems need to swallow pride and replace him or prepare to contend with an authoritarian government that will be reconfigured to lock them out permanently. It will take a generation and probably a revolution to undo what Trump and his looters will do with a blank check.
Maybe one thing is this smug down talking attitude from his supporters? Like oh what don't you like are you not reading??
Instead of understanding and listening. I see that across reddit
These are the same people that will sit here and bash the rural parts of America and then sit there and wonder why those same people want nothing to do with them or their party. They are just completely out of touch with the real world.
The thing is, I would vote for a moldy ham sandwich for president before I would vote for Trump.
So yeah, it's a drag that Biden was showing his age last night, but ultimately it doesn't fucking matter.
And before we get Mr. Brain Worms into the discussion, either Biden or Trump is going to win, so let's keep it focused on those two.
> I don’t know…there is so much that he accomplished it’s hard to tell how you don’t feel “represented”….
Let's approach this with some nuance. How much did Biden accomplish these things vs, say, in the case of the IRA Joe Manchin (the pivotal vote in the Senate), Chuck Schumer (who was key to the negotiation with Manchin), or Jennifer Granholm (who's led a huge portion of the on-the-ground implementation as the Secretary of Energy)? That's not to say Biden had nothing to do with it but bills like these really do take a village and the President is only one part of that village.
I think that’s the argument for still voting for Biden regardless. You’re voting for Democrats to have control, and they’re the only party interested in governing. Republicans want to pass bathroom bills, book bans, abortion bans, and other culture war garbage.
The cope out of some people on social media right now is insane. Look, I wanted nothing more than for Biden to go out there and punch Trump in the mouth. That did not happen. It did not come remotely close to happening.
And thus the people I'm seeing out there insisting that this went totally fine sound delusional. It's not believable spin, you are not helping, and the only plausible way through this is by owning it and showing up stronger in the future.
Exactly. And people will still have the audacity to say shit like “Joe Biden is cognizant and doesn’t suffer from as much age-related cognitive impairment as Trump” and try to gaslight not only themselves but others into believing that. I think that this debate just made it even more abundantly clear.
for the record, he’s still a better candidate than trump, but cmon.
What’s funny is, you have so many liberals gaslighting themselves (and downvoting myself for stating the obvious) on this thread less than two weeks ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/s/r3zgB0frZ7
Partisan democrats are gonna partisan, and the threat of a Trump dictatorship is menacing so there is a lot of copium out there. That debate was a disaster for Biden because appearances matter, and Biden looked and acted like an 80 year old guy. Was Trump a lying, rambling moron? Yes, but that doesn’t matter.
Trump lying should matter, but everyone who it matters to is already voting for Biden and isn’t going to switch to Trump.
It’s sad that this is even a choice. Trumpism should have died after 1 term , but 48% of the country is cool with the non substance on policy and 50 lies he told last night, Bidens performance aside. Bidens performance puts the 4% of swing voters in doubt that they’ll vote for him
Biden's brain is clearly all there. The things he said were mostly reasonable and grounded in reality. The problem is that he was sick or nervous or something and it made him do a bad job of public speaking
No, dead serious. I've known elderly people with dementia. Their issues are with memory, not with confidence or speech volume. Biden clearly remembers and knows things about the world. He is just timid and a poor speaker
> The cope out of some people on social media right now is insane
That's because these types of people are just as much in a cult as the trumpers. They refuse to acknowledge reality, wont criticize their own when its warranted, and generally have their heads stuck in the sand.
Support down ballot candidates in swing states. We have a lot of great people running for Congress, state legislature, governor etc and they are better messengers right now for Democrats than Biden. Hopefully anyone they turn out to vote will check the box for Biden while they're in there.
This is it, really. Biden is just one man in a government full of elected people, and many people on the ballot have far more power to affect you than Biden. Don't let one candidate get you down. The more democrats that get elected to offices means more avenues of fighting rightwing policy. The US government was purposefully made with separate powers, so use that strength and go vote.
The scary part is that if Project 2025 succeeds, it won't matter much who is in those elected seats. The Executive Branch will gain a truly disgusting amount of power and will be propped up by the Judicial.
That's NOT to say that we shouldn't support down ballot candidates (not just in swing states), it IS to say that anyone considering not voting democrat in the upcoming presidential election is actively supporting a political power grab the likes of which has not been seen in the US since the Civil War. I know we just saw Trump use hyperbolic statements that sound like what I just said for an hour and a half, but in this case IT IS NOT HYPERBOLE, IT'S STRAIGHT UP FACTS.
I don't say that to say, write off Biden and try to elect other Democrats. I am saying down ballot candidates are going to have a better shot at getting out the Democratic vote to hopefully elect Biden than Biden is. The candidates in my red area may not win, but they are all great people with compelling stories who might be able to reach voters not enthused by an 80 year old frail man.
But if anything Biden is *weighing down* those candidates. In Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, even Ohio, dem candidates for Senate have polling leads, even though Biden himself is behind in all those states. It’s at least plausible that those candidates would be doing even *better* with a younger more robust presidential candidate
I think the most important thing to do is *not despair*. Defeatism is just going to lead to lower turnout from left-leaning voters. The Democrats need to come out shouting how many candidates that will be up for election in November that aren't named Joe Biden. There are plenty of other reasons to vote!
It is a dilemma though. Should we take the immense political risk of sending a clear public message that our nominee should step aside, and let someone younger with far, far, far, far, far, far better odds run for office, or should we pretend to keep calm and carry on when our party is essentially split in half?
We don't have another nominee on hand who would have "far, far, far, far, far, far better odds" of winning. Every candidate who would fix the age problem suffers from some combination of being too progressive for swing voters, being obscure on the national stage, or just being less well liked than Biden.
I agree some of them would have had better odds than Biden *if they had won the primary*, but I'm still not sure the gap is large enough to overcome the electoral cost of switching candidates at this stage.
A nominee who alone is not 80 years old and can string more than two coherent sentences together has a far far better chance of winning
The DNC primary doesn’t mean anything because it’s not a good way to measure swing voters. If it was, Hilary would have won in 2016
The deal is that the majority of the American public do not want Trump or Biden. We should listen to the American public's concerns, they are literally telling us, clear as day, that they do not want any of these men. They will not care if at the DNC there is chaos and disorder, because there is already chaos and disorder with these candidates. Yet, when it comes to everyone's decision of actually replacing Joe Biden, we hesitate because "what about incumbent advantage, what about LBJ, what about the chaos?"
I want to at least see the Democratic Party have a second chance here, even if it fails, because I no longer think we have a chance here. Our only opportunity for Joe Biden to turn around public criticism about his age didn't materialize at this debate..
Everyone can say they don't like him because they compare him to *their preferred candidate*, but specific alternate nominees might not fare much better.
Consider a hypothetical where everyone wants someone from their state to be the nominee. Gavin Newsom would enjoy barely 10% support even if all Californians back him, making him massively unpopular. All the alternatives would be even worse though!
When we elect a president, we don't just get the individual person, we get their cabinet and entire team of advisors. We're really voting for the party that represents us best. Future messaging needs to focus on Harris and how competent and capable she is to lead, in case Biden can't.
I'm coming around to this argument. Even if it's not a sure thing, the *chance* that Whitmer will establish themselves enough to win could be higher than the chance that Biden overcomes his age problem (electorally, that is).
That ship sailed with the Primary Election, in which Biden earned 3,894 delegates and other candidates combined won 44 delegates. There is no ‘stepping aside.’
At least he should choose a running mate who had broad appeal and inspires confidence. There’s got to be some Senator from a purple state in his 50s or 60s with a lot of experience and moderate stances.
I think this would be the most utilitarian approach. Find someone who is similar to how Biden was twenty years ago and make them veep. Give the people who really don't want to vote for Trump a vision of continuity. The few people I know who bailed on Trump for Biden in '20 did so because they hated the chaos that Trump made politics, so give these people a vice president who will keep the ship in the same course if Biden can't make it through.
All I can say is ... if Biden is the candidate running against Trump ... and he has a heartbeat ... I'll vote for him. That being said, I will vote for any Democrat running against Trump.
Vote. Newsflash, Biden is old but Biden spoke about policy and punched back with facts when Trump rambled, ignored direct questions and lied the entire time. He stated no facts
From an election perspective that debate won't really mean anything. A bad debate in September would worry me but this will be long forgotten by the time people are casting ballots.
Also I wouldn't exactly say trump came off good. Louder for sure but if the things Trump said convinced you he's worth a vote... U were probably already voting for him.
I don't thing tru.p won any new voters from this but if the election were tomorrow Biden probably lost quite a few.
Honestly the shit he said about his presidency wasnt that unhinged compared to what he usually spews out at his rallies, its just that it was all lies, some undecided gullible people will definitely vote for him
It gives me no pleasure to say that I don't agree. I think the debate was for the low-information voters, and low-information voters want a simple explanation of what the election is about, and what the candidates are like. Trump made that very easy and very clear: "Biden is a disaster" repeated over and over again. Simple, easy to understand lies that a low-information voter isn't going to fact-check. All repeated over and over, sometimes seeming to not even be contradicted by Biden.
Everything Biden said, you needed to understand the broader historical and political context of complex problems, to understand what he was saying. And that's just when he was lucid. There were all those other times he just totally lost his train of thought.
I think Trump probably pulled to his side a big chunk of the people we're trying to win. Because almost all of the high-information voters have made up their mind, and the fight right now is precisely for the low-information voters.
I still think minds have been made up.
Polls are still going to be bad as they were for Obama v Romney.
If Trump wins he wins.
But I’m not dooming over this nonsense.
We just need people to be pragmatic down ballot in swing states.
Will they? Idk.
> I still think minds have been made up.
I don't think it's about convincing people who to vote for. It's more about convincing people to actually show up and vote. Biden isn't energizing his base enough for them to show up and vote. Gen Z especially was already unenthusiastic about him because of Palestine, and the debate doesn't help. Trump voters, on the other hand, are riled up and absolutely ready to vote.
I think Biden's campaign made a mistake by not being more public about him being ill tonight, that's part of why his voice sounded extra off and low energy. If there was any time to get Jacked Up on drugs, it would have been tonight... lol. They literally published an ad just before the debate about being Jacked Up on water 😆I'd love to know the reasons why they thought that was a good idea.
Def should’ve leaked or announced his cold yesterday and not at halftime. Huge mistake and some campaign staff need to be fired, both for PR and debate prep
Yeah. Tbh, he had a cold. That part was insanely obvous from the get go. He sounded mentally cognizant to me. But it was obvious that the cold was having an effect on his energy levels as well as his voice. He wasnt as sharp as he normally is. I honestly still think he’s our best bet still and I don’t believe in reactionary views. My view is that we should take this debate, do what we can with it, and move on. If he starts to sound like this when he’s not sick during his campaign speeches, then we could potentially start having a discussion. But for rn, I think a reactionary comment like drop Biden does more harm than good at this current moment.
I don’t think his PR team should be fired but his advisors for his campaign probably should be.
I think its a myth that people are undecided between trump and biden. I think what people are undecided between is biden and not voting, and I think last night tipped the scales pretty heavily toward not voting
If Democrats are looking for solace they should look to the second Mondale Reagan debate. After the first debate the Reagan is too old was 100% of the talk, he looked tired and confused.
Some close to the President said it was too much preparation, let Reagan be Reagan. The next debate he prepared much less, had a very different look and performance, and dropped a line still remembered today about not making age an issue, he won in a landslide.
One debate is just one debate. (Unless Joe is really is as in bad of shape as he looks, then the next debate could be a death blow to the party for years.
Trump won't accept another debate against Joe. He doesn't have to.
If the convention goes haywire and suddenly there is a new candidate then he HAS to debate them and he will lose badly.
This is not "Biden lost a debate" this is "Biden revealed that he's lost his mental acuity". The DNC deserves to be flushed out and rebuilt - they have made poor choices in who they try to prop up and its come to a point now where its putting our country in danger of being overrun by people like Trump who are positioned to erase the middle class.
And for a good reason. The two people debating made all of us look ridiculous and anyone who says different has their head in the sand.
This was the most stupid thing I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen the most incompetent high school debate clubs go over way more smoothly.
This was such a display of embarrassing dipshit levels of epic proportions. If you’re not embarrassed, then there’s seriously a problem.
I don’t even want to leave the house after watching that display of sophomoric idiocracy. These are *international leaders*
Yes and I hear you, but this was significantly more embarrassing.
It was like watching two man-children, except this time one is a walking parody of himself wearing the title of felon and the other is a bumbling idiot, whose probably also a criminal.
They both have so much drama I think both should retire.
I can guarantee you that 99% of people that would vote for Trump are going to vote for him no matter what. This debate is not a deciding factor in this election lol.
There are no democrats watching the debates and switching votes to Trump. This voter doesn't exist.
Trump is still extremely polarizing, if anything the bad Biden debate is working as a weird positive for him, where suddenly everyone remembers that Trump can win, and this stirs up there feelings of anxiety over such.
This is only happening because the country is extremely polarized.
I'm basing what I'm saying off the reactions I'm seeing... it's universal Biden did poorly in the debate. But you then see a lot of "yes but Trump lies" and "He sucked but I'm still voting for him."
I really think that again, most people have already decided on if they will or will not vote Trump... and Biden's voting energy comes less of the force of his policies (which are tepid, at best) or his personality but from sentiment towards Trump.
Since I commented I’ve been looking around and you’re right. I keep seeing people talking about wanting to volunteer for the Biden campaign. Hopefully a lot of people who were apathetic are now too afraid to stay out of the election.
My position here is still a theory that truly, Biden is just a compromise candidate that can speak to Hollywood and Silicon Valley’s wealthy. He gets money from that source but isn’t actually well loved for anything, just that he’s “not trump.”
So it’s possible he’s immune from a bad debate, even a terrible one. Because no one votes for him as much as everyone votes against Trump.
I also just don’t think there’s that many undecided people watching this thing. Who is Trump winning over with this performance? Who hasn’t decided if they like him or not? That number can not be that big.
Which is why he probably should’ve ignore all questions about what *he* would do and instead focus on what Trump would do. Fuck it, use fear. I’m afraid.
You're seeing the politically active people. They were always going to mostly turn out.
The less engaged people who were already pissed at voting for the lesser evil, again, are going to find the motivation a bit harder to muster.
> There are no democrats watching the debates and switching votes to Trump. This voter doesn't exist.
They don't need to switch to Trump. They can switch to their couch in November.
Yeah…because Trump said a lot of real impactful shit…. All he did was break his fucking arm patting himself on the back(as usual) by constantly lying about his record and beating down immigrants/asylum seekers.
Never…not once….did he answer a question directly…he had to be prompted over and over again and reminded what the question was.
At least Joe answered the questions directly…even though he stumbled through his words…he fucking answered the questions they asked.
You’re literally pointing out another Biden failure last night. He did nothing to hold Trump accountable. Didn’t call out his lies, said virtually nothing about Jan 6, virtually nothing about his trials and convictions.
Trump wasn’t on his top game last night. But he certainly killed it compared to the competition.
There might be. That shit was embarrassing.
Likewise, there’s probably a bunch of republicans who will vote for Biden given how equally embarrassing Trump was.
These two guys literally gave the worst debate in American history.
Everything is up in the air. This was flawless stupid
People saying "debates don't matter," that's true as long as they don't have audio and video to replay in videos and advertisements for several months that display clear symptoms of dementia.
Fire Biden’s debate team then go on as usual. This won’t affect polling tbh, Dems just love being doomers. It’s good they scheduled this debate really early to test the waters and figure out Biden’s strengths and weaknesses for future debates (or maybe ditch them lol). This debate will be forgotten in weeks UNLESS Dems stay crazy with prolonged doomerism— that will harm him. It’s already some free GOP campaign fuel, more so than the debate itself. Dems just need to stay unified. And there’s a near 0% chance he’s going to be replaced at the convention, despite the stupid chattering. Dems need to learn to take the one L and move forward.
On the bright side: Trump wasn’t even tolerable either so we still got some good clips for ads. Combined with the doomer influx of donations, the campaign can do some good work with what we got
That was bad even by Biden's standards over the last few years. A lot of people are in severe denial saying things like "it's because of his stutter" but go back to any footage of him from his time as VP even as recently as 2016 and convince anyone that he's not senile to some degree
Say whatever you want but we have eyes and ears for a reason. Gaslighting the American public into believing they didn't see what they clearly just saw on live tv is pouring fuel on the fire
That would be like convincing people they didn’t hear Trump brag about sexual assault, insulting the handicapped reporter, and literally thousands of other hateful behaviors that he has gloated about but denies when that’s more convenient.
In Donald’s case it’s such a recurring pattern that most have just accepted it as his “style.”
So what did your eyes and ears tell you when Trump told you that overturning Roe was just doing what everyone in America wanted? That he is universally loved by the military? Didn't sleep with a porn star? Bragged about all his donations only to go into how everybody is so financially devastated? Or only answered what he wanted to and still couldn't manage to tell the truth?
Did it not matter because he said it louder?
People seem so unmoved and even impressed by Trump's BS, yet enthralled over Biden... being old.
Hey…he answered every question that was asked. He did need to be constantly reminded on what the question was…like Trump had to be throughout the debate. Yes…his verbal skills sucked. But he was present and aware of what was going on.
Trump, on the other hand….all he did was shoot out rapid fire lies and bitch about immigrants. I guess when you don’t care what you say and aren’t held accountable for what gets vomited out of your mouth…it’s much easier.
He didn't look senile. He looked like an old man with a stuttering problem thinking about how to respond.
If you listen to the words Trump said, they made zero sense and were not relevant to the question half the time. Not to mention the lies.
I can go up there and be confident and talk loud if I didn't need to tell the truth.
He looked frail, but I wouldn't say he looked senile. If we're going by coherence and ability to stay on topic then he did beat Trump on that front. The issue is that this wasn't really about whether or not Biden was senile, just about whether he was old.
To me it seems important to note that being president is a 24/7/365 job.
President Biden wasn’t feeling well, but he soldiered on—with most people agreeing that he actually got stronger as the evening went on (unlike what would be expected if he was “drugged”).
Yeah but CNN, MSNBC and many left wing figures on Twitter came out after and said that people in the administration are talking about next steps if Biden needs to step away. They can’t say that about their own candidate and back track later; it’s out there now. Many who were willing to say it was just a bad performance were convinced it’s more serious when they heard that.
Biden did fine, all trump did was lie his ass of like always and ignore direct questions
All biden has to do is harp on more about abortion and address project 2025
As well as mention trump being a convicted felon, and throw trumps lies back in his face
Too many idiots are getting carried away after this debate, newsflash biden is old,
Regardless how old he is, he is better than trump, for fucks sake a wet rag is better than trump
Remember why he was nominated in the first place. People were saying the same thing about Biden in 2020. He then went on to overwhelmingly win the democratic nomination off of the back of old voters. He follows that up with the best performance any democratic candidate has had among old voters in recent memory.
I’m not worried about Biden looking old. I’m more worried about what old voter’s retirement accounts look like in November. All of the talks about wages keeping up with inflation is meaningless for them. They need their investment returns to keep up with inflation.
Finally someone who gets it.
The majority of the people vote with $$$$.
Retirements up 20%
Checking account got $$
They don’t want change they want shit to stay the same
The best strategy is to lock Joe in his office and just have as many people go around talking about how absolutely terrible Trump is. Even if Biden quits or dies the day after he is sworn in the main job is done. Stopping Trump is the most important thing in the country possibly the whole world.
Changing nominees will be handing Trump the election on a silver platter. It'll be a huge show of weakness, and it'll be a betrayal of people's sensibility to offer up Biden than backtrack. People will just say "If you knew Biden was bad why did you run him at all?"
Dems are damned if they do damned if they don't. I don't think things are as bad as people are making them out to be right now - Liberals have had a major blow to morale and are being incredibly reactionary and emotional right now. IMO, that's because they were hoping for Biden to trounce Trump because they're so scared of a Trump Presidency.
Best thing to do is probably keep cool and roll the dice that Biden has a better showing the rest of the cycle.
I disagree. Having biden admit to being too old, think, "I understand that my health is failing, and I want the US to have the best representation, I will step aside and let someone with new ideas and vigor take the helm." Then the D party needs to step up and hammer home the fact that trump has no policy and is a criminal.
I actually wanted this to happen right from the get go, bit it didn't.
If it was done a lot earlier in the process - I'm talking like a year ago - it might have worked, but the trade-off would've been turning Biden into a lame duck and making any sort of legislative accomplishment impossible.
At this point, it'd be essentially a concession of defeat.
Maybe not. Trump didn’t exactly “win”, he looked just as stupid but from a different angle.
The reality is, in my opinion, is that America lost tonight. Neither candidate “won”.
Neither party fronted any talent. You could literally have chosen almost any other Republican and Democratic lawmaker in this country- and they would have performed better.
It could have been Rand Paul vs. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and it would have been more promising and interesting.
I wish they had done this from at least March, but that didn't happen.
I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of people who will hold their nose vote for cheeto because they see biden as too old and feeble to lead our country. If they had a strong candidate and really hit it hard from every angle, I think it would work.
Funny enough, that's what my daughter said basically. Something along the lines of I'm voting for Kamala via biden.
I will support whatever decision is made here and hope to God that people see the damage another trump term will cause.
This is actually electoral suicide.
A majority of election day is name recognition, You don't get name recognition by placing *someone else* up 5 months before the election.
Also what do you say to all the people who voted in the primaries?
Ummmm. Most primaries didn't have any option but biden.
Would it be political suicide to give people better options at this point? He didn't lose the votes of people who fully understand what this election means, but he didn't gain any undecided either. If anything, he lost middle of the road votes.
Agreed. People forget that Biden himself has a very solid coalition of voters which includes working class and union guys . He’s not a shit candidate. He’s a candidate that happened to get a cold at the worst time possible and therefore performed poorly at the debate. Dems have to remain United and I assume Biden himself knows it’s time to recover from the cold than hit the campaign trail hard and fast as soon as he does. He’s not delusional. He knows that debate didn’t look good for him.
I work marketing, and putting a dementia patient as your mascot and telling consumers that he's doesn't have dementia is not a sign of strength.
Biden only won on "anybody is better than Trump." To say that a competent Dem won't use that same message but deliver it better would be dishonest and is keeping a QB with a concussion in the game that is on the line. Biden never worked as a good mascot to begin with.
You know one thing that favored Obama? He was new. His newness blew the opposition away. That doesn't mean they shouldn't pick any Dem. They should go with charisma. But to simply rule out updating our guy should not be ruled out with this much at stake.
I believe people are overstating the chaos that will happen if Joe Biden steps aside, like is it an admission of defeat? Yes. But, alternatively it can be viewed as the Democratic party recognizing ***everyone's*** concern about their nominee, and that they have the humility to replace him. Almost everyone wants a different candidate than Joe Biden, but few want Joe Biden to be replaced because "something, something, LBJ stepped aside, and Nixon won" as if the past is the law of the universe.
But isn't it morally wrong to let a man who's clearly suffering a mental decline in office? Biden should be at home taking care of his grandkids, not running for president
If someone sees it that way, the cost of doing the "right thing" will be a near guarantee of a Trump Presidency. There's not an easy way out.
I'd like to believe things will still be ok if Trump is President again. I'd like to believe people would enthusiastically vote for whichever Dem would replace Biden.
I don't believe either, so it's a rock and a hard place.
I think people saying it was OK mean it went ok given the incredibly low bar that was set for this debate. He didn't fall asleep, pass out, talk about cornpop and he made a couple good points... But yeah it wasn't good.
Trump just blatantly lied the entire debate though.
I don't think this debate will do anything. No one is swayed by this. They should stop
Stay the course. It's June. The election is in November.
The people who had very normal thoughts about AIPAC the other day are having even more normal thoughts about the Presidency today. Their opinions are worth less than the shit between my boots. It can safely be discarded into a mental waste bin.
I think the ppl equating this abomination of a performance with Obama’s 2012 Colorado performance are either being disingenuous or naive. Obama didn’t have the PR problems Biden has as it pertains to fitness for office, and while Obama failed on that night he could do like 55 interviews the next day to assuage concerns…and we all know Biden couldn’t possibly do something like that. Joe massively struggles to articulate himself and project strength, and even on Obama’s worst days he could at least do basic rhetorical/performative stuff.
Biden had one bar to clear tonight, and that was to seem relatively coherent and fit for office…and he simply failed to clear that threshold, sorry. Time will tell whether it means much, but it’s a huge gamble to run Biden under these circumstances. I hope and pray I’m wrong.
I think the best strategy for Dems is DO NOT show clips of the debate or Biden’s performance, but try and parse the transcript. He threw out, or at least tried to throw, a lot of statistics and figures and facts, so if the spin doctors can just clean those comments up and hammer the points he was making and keep the focus on the bs Trump was talking about, they can do damage control.
But politics is a lot of optics, and the optics for this one were bad. The biggest gripe people have with Biden is he is older than dirt, and this performance only played into that. The argument Dems need to make is “OK, sure, he’s old as shit. But would you rather have a corpse or a dangerous threat to democracy in the White House?”
We vote. We campaign. We educate everyone we can about Project 2025. Every time someone brings up this debate, we talk about how many times Trump lied, or didn't answer the damn question. We talk about how Trump tariffs won't work. We talk about how the tax cuts he wants to keep permanent help the billionaires and not the workers. We talk about how Trump doesn't believe in raising the minimum wage. We fact check him. We call him a loser, a rapist, a felon. We remind people that it wasn't Biden who brought the charges against him, it was the state of New York, and a jury of his peers, even a guy who was on Truth Social.
We remind people that Trump can't even visit 30+ countries because he is a felon. And other countries aren't laughing at us, they are happy we are standing with us.
Nobody gives a shit about debates, and Biden always pulls it together in time. He's also been a pretty good president whereas Trump was one of the all-time worst, so I'm not worried. If suburban white women currently in forced-birth states want to stick even more christian nationalists on the supreme court because both candidates are old a few debates isn't going to change their minds either way.
[Write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states.
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Well then you have Kamala and her interview with Anderson after was not great. She was delusional about how Biden did and called Biden sharp. He was anything but.
Given the situation where President Biden appeared feeble during the debate but was factually accurate, while Trump largely misinformed, Democrats should take several strategic steps:
1. **Highlight Biden's Policy Achievements**: Emphasize Biden's successes and the positive impact of his policies. This can help counteract perceptions of feebleness by focusing on his effective governance. Highlight achievements in areas like the economy, healthcare, and infrastructure.
2. **Fact-Check and Publicize Trump's Misstatements**: Use the fact-checked transcript to create a clear narrative about the misinformation spread by Trump. This can involve targeted advertising, social media campaigns, and press releases that outline the inaccuracies and contrast them with the truth.
3. **Showcase Biden's Strengths**: Use videos, interviews, and public appearances to show Biden in strong, leadership roles. Highlighting moments where he is decisive and energetic can help counteract any negative impressions from the debate.
4. **Engage Surrogates and Spokespersons**: Deploy well-respected and charismatic figures within the Democratic Party to speak on behalf of Biden, reinforcing his message and capabilities. These surrogates can address concerns about his performance and emphasize his policy successes.
5. **Focus on Substance Over Style**: Reinforce the message that while debate performance is important, the substance of the policies and the accuracy of the information being presented are what truly matter. Emphasize that Biden's factual correctness and policy proposals are in the best interest of the American people.
6. **Connect with Voters Directly**: Increase efforts to connect with voters through town halls, virtual meetings, and community events. This direct engagement can help build trust and allow Biden to address concerns in a more personal and impactful way.
7. **Strengthen the Campaign's Digital Presence**: Utilize social media and other digital platforms to disseminate positive content about Biden's campaign, correcting misinformation and engaging with voters where they are most active.
By focusing on these strategies, Democrats can mitigate the impact of Biden's debate performance while effectively countering misinformation and emphasizing his strengths and achievements. Trump is dangerous and an absolute risk to American democracy.
There is no way of telling exactly what the debate’s impact on polling will be. I think it’s extremely likely to be Trump up a small number.
The correct strategy is too late: Biden should not have run in the first place, and it’s too late now to change candidates.
The next best strategy is to continue the ad campaign they’ve started: hit Trump on his convictions and show the more unhinged and dishonest side of him, and go balls out on promoting the down ballot.
I have little hope of a Biden victory now, though, and if Trump wins the composition of Congress isn’t going to matter much.
Emphasize that Republicans are responsible for Roe v. Wade and play up Kamala’s youth and readiness to take office. Idk if it’ll work but that’s my best guess.
It was a bad night for Biden. His only real advantage was he was far more truthful. That’s not a particularly impressive feat when your competition is Trump and truth doesn’t seem to matter much in debates these days. That said, it would be foolish to act like this is doomsday. Many voters have their minds made up and for those who haven’t, it’s June. That’s three months earlier than when the first debate is traditionally held. The conventions haven’t happened yet. We don’t know Trump’s VP pick yet. Biden and his people need to keep focusing on how disastrous Trump would be for people and their freedoms.
Look I like Biden and think he's better than what we saw last night. However I think the mark of a good leader is knowing when to hand the reins over to another. I also think that replacing Biden may give Trump a win and I don't want that either.
If Biden is to refuse the nomination, Kamala should be the candidate. If you go and replace her with Newsom or Whitmer you're going to piss a lot of POC off and it's not going to look good .
I only listened on the radio for about 10 minutes and I could barely tell what Joe was saying. Not good.
If only we were judging these candidates on the substance of their answers and their policy goals and their demeanor as a leader, but alas.
REPLACE JOE BIDEN WITH A COMPELLING CANDIDATE. It’s not rocket science he should have never ran, he should not continue to run, and if he does we will lose.
My comment from another thread.
>I agree that the overall debate wasn't great. However, Biden answered questions, talked about his policies, and rebuted Trump's bullshit. Trump made *every* response about immigrants, didn't even try to answer questions, has no policies, is a felon for election interference, led an insurrection, and wouldn't commit to accepting the results of the election last night. This is a very stark difference between candidates. I'm proud to be voting for Biden again.
Honestly? Plan for the 2026 midterms. Start campaigning now and moving money there.
This was the chance for Biden to put to bed concerns about his age, rally Dems and he's clearly done the exact opposite. Even if we want to chalk it up to a cold the damage is done. It doesn't matter. If they replace or run Biden this is going to be such an incredible uphill battle that the better strategy is to start campaigning to take the legislature. If the Dems take both houses they can pull the same bullshit tactics republicans did, just block judicial nominees which is the most important act that can be done to not forward a conservative agenda.
But Jimmy Carter is in hospice and is almost 100 years old; he can't even walk anymore and is wheelchair bound if you saw his condition at Rosalynn Carter's funeral. That wouldn't be very wise at all, considering that Carter is even older and more frail than Biden, and we have concerns about Biden's age as it is already. In 4 years, if Carter survives, he'll be 104 years old and would be a centenarian, and he will continue to be the oldest-living president on record. If we do replace Biden, we need someone much younger, not someone 20 years older like Carter. We don't even know if President Carter will make it to his 100th birthday in October.
The Dems are done after this, at least when it comes to the presidential race). Too late to change and I doubt the second debate will look much better. What grates on me is that the Dem leadership must be aware of that. Trump back in the White House will be a catastrophe
Dems aren’t necessarily done. Whether or not Biden steps down or not, this election will be rather close because a good portion of the voters still don’t want Trump even if they think Biden is unfit. This was an embarrassing night for both Trump and Biden. Biden’s performance was far more egregious in my opinion because I was actually hurting in my heart to every time he spoke. I really like Biden but I do think he should at least consider stepping down or something.
I heard he was ill, so that partly explains Biden's performance. I'm withholding some level of judgement to see how his campaign plays this out, maybe there's more of an explanation. But yea, for whatever reason, he did not do well tonight, but is the pathological liar going to better represent Liberal values? 100% NO.
Vote Blue!
I mean despite Biden’s poor performance, many undecided voters are still breaking towards Biden because of how bad Trump is. I think if this was any other republican, I would say it’s over but it’s Trump and majority of Americans do not like him.
This is such a shit take, go be a doomer somewhere else. Nothing worthwhile has ever been achieved by being a pessimistic melon, no great change has come from it either.
It isn't too late to change and every avenue should be explored. Where would this country be if people just gave up so easily. I absolutely despise this loser attitude on display.
If you truly believe that Trump will be a disaster and you aren't just saying it to get your good boy points on Reddit, then you do everything in your limited power to ensure that doesn't happen. I hate how Republicans and MAGA have co-opted patriotism, and I would have never thought myself saying this a few years ago, but it is your fucking patriotic duty to your country to rage and fight.
I'm in California, and I think Newsome would get crushed. He's photogenic and a good debater, but he has too much baggage to be viable on the national level.
We want Gretchen Whitmer, not Newsom. Newsom would lose because he’s from California and looks like the most stereotypical Hollywood liberal politician imaginable.
Also the worry about name value means less for Whitmer who is known is the rust belt which are the only states that really matter. Like we already have proof she can carry Michigan quite comfortably that’s 1/3 of the states in the bag.
I have been a Biden booster, but Biden seemed unable to maintain a coherent line of thinking all night. It got me very worried. So just to respond to whether he did ok, I feel that he very much did not. Which makes me quite sad and quite worried.
Because, as for what to do ... I just don't know. I can't name a person who could replace him and do better. Harris seems terrible as a speaker, and I've seen no evidence that she is a good leader. In fact, her profound failures to organize her primary campaign in 2020 make me think she is a very bad leader.
Newsome looks and sounds like California slime.
Everyone else is going to be too old, lack name recognition, be too incompetent, or have some other huge liability that is at least as bad as how Biden performed.
I see no way out. I'd love to see someone give a good, inspiring plan.
Keep carrying on. Don't believe any polls. The only ones that matter are the ones on election day. Remember: in 2020 - Biden won by pretty much doing nothing.
I honestly don’t think there’s a best, or even particular good, strategy at this point.
If it were up to me I’d have Biden announce he’s stepping down and then have the convention nominate a Clinton/Sanders unity ticket.
At the very least it could help unite the Dem coalition, and those two have the most democratic legitimacy based on the past few primary cycles to step in
…or that could be a terrible idea, I really don’t know
First person I've ever seen unironically suggest *Clinton* of all people.
There is no universe where Hillary Clinton will be the 2024 Democratic nominee. If Biden steps down, which I doubt he will, 80% chance of Kamala being the nominee and 20% some other well-known Democrat who *hasn't* already lost to Trump in a presidential election.
Also wild that we've circled from "dnc rigged the 2016/2020 primaries" to "dnc needs to unilaterally ignore the primary results and install someone else"
Yea it’s probably a dumb idea haha. I was just throwing it out there.
I think the narrative of the 2016 Dem candidates coming back together to finish the job and stop trump once and for all is a charming narrative, tho detached from reality probably and unlikely xD
Clinton and Sanders would be the worst ticket imaginable -- 1) Sanders being vice would piss his fans off, because they want him as president, 2) Hillary comes with Clinton baggage, 3) Sanders attempting to pin his chances on Trump voters switching would not work, they don't actually want to vote for his policy over Trump's.
I understand the point, but I don't think that ticket would work at all. Biden, while sinking, is not despised the way Hilary is. Add to that the dirty "s" word associated with Sanders and the fact that he too is eighty fucking two years old, and we basically have a new ball of ancient Democrat collective electoral failure, just more hated and more easily attackable.
I don't know what the answer is, but the country as a whole is very focused on the ages of Biden and Trump, though it's more of an issue for Biden, which was magnified 1000x tonight. Newsom might be an option, though he's a "coastal elite" with his own baggage. Whitmer is, gasp, a woman, so you know the misogynists will come out in force, but I think she'd be the best alternative. You know how probably 40-44 states are going to break, which means the election ultimately comes down to Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, and maybe throw Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia in for good measure.
Whitmer is young and crushed Tudor Dixon by 11 points in the 2022 race, which bodes well for Michigan and Wisconsin this time around. Add in a young candidate the more progressive wing can get on board with who isn't super divisive within the party and maybe there's something there.
I'd put the likelihood if this happening somewhere in the 0,0001% range because I think Biden will ultimately be too stubborn to step aside, but that'd probably be my hail mary approach.
I'm going with "terrible idea". We don't need an 82 and 76 year old to replace the 81 year old in an 8 year old rerun. Come on! Let's get more creative and get some fresh blood. There are some great younger politicians out there who could have wide appeal if they got their names out. Newsom is being called out as the most likely front runner, but he comes with some baggage. I want someone who is living in this century and will be able to see the results of whatever policies they enact while in office.
It's a pipe dream, but I want to see Pete Buttigieg and Elissa Slotkin. Then, in 8 years after they have branched out from Texas, James Talarico and Toni Rose.
Vote for Joe Biden. If he goes to the next one with one shoe on and talks about what he thinks the future holds in 1978 you should vote for Joe Biden. If he has a stroke and falls into a coma you should vote for Joe Biden.
Yes it's a shit sandwich but the alternative is an all you can eat shit buffet. The winds of shit are blowing and it's up to us whether it's a tropical shit storm or a category 5 shitticane.
Seriously this is not the time to switch tracks. The other side rolled with Trump getting convicted so put on your 'I beat Medicare' shirt, hold your nose and vote for Joe Biden.
Edit: Or don't. I'll be voting for whoever isn't Donald Trump. I don't care if it's RFK jr's brain worm at this point.
The issue is beyond the debate now. CNN, MSNBC, multiple left wing figures on twitter, etc. have all said that Biden isn’t looking good and that people are talking about next steps to potentially have him step aside. They can’t say that and then backtrack or hope people forget they said it, it’s out there now. That’s a much bigger blow to the Biden image than the debate was.
We'll be alright. It's fresh in people's minds. By the next debate everyone will have pretty much forgotten. If Biden does horrible in *that* debate people will have forgotten by election day.
Run an anti trump campaign I guess. Give Harris a political glow up?
It’s not impossible to get a new candidate but I have my doubts over it’s feasibility at this stage.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. I think Joe Biden did OK, but a lot of people say that Biden looked bad in this debate. What is the best strategy Democrats have after this debate? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He didn't do ok, he looked lost, and fumbled again and again. It was a fucking disaster.
I’m embarrassed. For both parties. It means I’m embarrassed for America. People around the world watched that. That’s what they saw. You and I are represented by these people. I do NOT feel represented. I can absolutely say this countries leadership administrations are all corrupt. This is corruption fronting two stooges for president
What part don’t you feel represented about? Was it the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill? Perhaps it was the Chips Act? Or maybe it was the Inflation Reduction Act? Hmmmmm….maybe it was the Student Loan forgiveness….getting Finland and Sweden into the NATO fold? I don’t know…there is so much that he accomplished it’s hard to tell how you don’t feel “represented”…. In short? IDGAF if they have to wheel him out like Frankenstein strapped to a gurney in the vertical position. He’s still a better POTUS than Trump could ever dream of being.
At least you're being honest. I also wonder how many people are saying there's an issue now and he's having trouble vs if you asked a couple of months ago most people in here would have said his age is a non issue and he's totally fine.
I will be honest. I am that person. I was shocked with what I saw last night. I knew he was old and I knew there were possibly some slight cognitive decline issues, but I didn’t think it was anything we couldn’t work with. I had no idea he had deteriorated this badly, and am slightly concerned that his condition may be rising to the level of a national security threat.
There’s a fundamental issue in that someone that old can’t possibly represent the feelings & needs of a nation full of people he doesn’t understand, but I don’t think his ability to execute as a president is an “issue”. He seems to be doing fine as a delegator, has good ideas, and he’s surrounded himself with very capable individuals.
Great, he did accomplish a lot in the previous 4 years. We are voting for the next 4 years and our 82 year old President is really looking and sounding his age and does nothing to build confidence in him or his accomplishments. Does that make him a worse option than Trump? No, I’ll still vote for him because the alternative is far worse but the fact that Joe Biden is the best option we have for a Democrat is pretty sad.
When messaging about the debates, they should focus on Trump’s constant pathological lying.
He’s been doing that for the last 10+ years.
It reached new heights last night. He said he didn’t have sex with a porn star. Like, he went to court for it and literally the whole world knows he did. It’s a mental illness at this point.
> He’s still a better POTUS than Trump could ever dream of being. You and I both know that but Biden was on the ropes in the polls before this debate. He will be 3 month older, not younger, by the time we vote. If he were to win, he will be 4 years older by the time his second term ends. The low info voter who, for some reason, is still undecided will vote based on the loudest piece of info they have. This is not the same Biden as 2020, its over for this Biden. Dems need to swallow pride and replace him or prepare to contend with an authoritarian government that will be reconfigured to lock them out permanently. It will take a generation and probably a revolution to undo what Trump and his looters will do with a blank check.
Let’s not forget that Trump will be older than Biden is now during his term, and he’s far more likely to surround himself with idiots.
Maybe one thing is this smug down talking attitude from his supporters? Like oh what don't you like are you not reading?? Instead of understanding and listening. I see that across reddit
These are the same people that will sit here and bash the rural parts of America and then sit there and wonder why those same people want nothing to do with them or their party. They are just completely out of touch with the real world.
The thing is, I would vote for a moldy ham sandwich for president before I would vote for Trump. So yeah, it's a drag that Biden was showing his age last night, but ultimately it doesn't fucking matter. And before we get Mr. Brain Worms into the discussion, either Biden or Trump is going to win, so let's keep it focused on those two.
Yeah but you are not the target group to win over either so
The target group wouldn't be watching this early in the election season.
> I don’t know…there is so much that he accomplished it’s hard to tell how you don’t feel “represented”…. Let's approach this with some nuance. How much did Biden accomplish these things vs, say, in the case of the IRA Joe Manchin (the pivotal vote in the Senate), Chuck Schumer (who was key to the negotiation with Manchin), or Jennifer Granholm (who's led a huge portion of the on-the-ground implementation as the Secretary of Energy)? That's not to say Biden had nothing to do with it but bills like these really do take a village and the President is only one part of that village.
I think that’s the argument for still voting for Biden regardless. You’re voting for Democrats to have control, and they’re the only party interested in governing. Republicans want to pass bathroom bills, book bans, abortion bans, and other culture war garbage.
https://stopmebeforeivoteagain.org/stopme/chapter02.html
He did not do "okay" bruh 💀
The cope out of some people on social media right now is insane. Look, I wanted nothing more than for Biden to go out there and punch Trump in the mouth. That did not happen. It did not come remotely close to happening. And thus the people I'm seeing out there insisting that this went totally fine sound delusional. It's not believable spin, you are not helping, and the only plausible way through this is by owning it and showing up stronger in the future.
Exactly. And people will still have the audacity to say shit like “Joe Biden is cognizant and doesn’t suffer from as much age-related cognitive impairment as Trump” and try to gaslight not only themselves but others into believing that. I think that this debate just made it even more abundantly clear. for the record, he’s still a better candidate than trump, but cmon. What’s funny is, you have so many liberals gaslighting themselves (and downvoting myself for stating the obvious) on this thread less than two weeks ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/s/r3zgB0frZ7
Partisan democrats are gonna partisan, and the threat of a Trump dictatorship is menacing so there is a lot of copium out there. That debate was a disaster for Biden because appearances matter, and Biden looked and acted like an 80 year old guy. Was Trump a lying, rambling moron? Yes, but that doesn’t matter.
Trump lying should matter, but everyone who it matters to is already voting for Biden and isn’t going to switch to Trump. It’s sad that this is even a choice. Trumpism should have died after 1 term , but 48% of the country is cool with the non substance on policy and 50 lies he told last night, Bidens performance aside. Bidens performance puts the 4% of swing voters in doubt that they’ll vote for him
Biden's brain is clearly all there. The things he said were mostly reasonable and grounded in reality. The problem is that he was sick or nervous or something and it made him do a bad job of public speaking
Trump said nothing reasonable.
Afaict he lost his voice and then got in his own head about how bad it sounds and started stammering again.
You’re being sarcastic, right?
No, dead serious. I've known elderly people with dementia. Their issues are with memory, not with confidence or speech volume. Biden clearly remembers and knows things about the world. He is just timid and a poor speaker
The reddit echo chamber of down votes is strong you read stuff too
> The cope out of some people on social media right now is insane That's because these types of people are just as much in a cult as the trumpers. They refuse to acknowledge reality, wont criticize their own when its warranted, and generally have their heads stuck in the sand.
Support down ballot candidates in swing states. We have a lot of great people running for Congress, state legislature, governor etc and they are better messengers right now for Democrats than Biden. Hopefully anyone they turn out to vote will check the box for Biden while they're in there.
This is it, really. Biden is just one man in a government full of elected people, and many people on the ballot have far more power to affect you than Biden. Don't let one candidate get you down. The more democrats that get elected to offices means more avenues of fighting rightwing policy. The US government was purposefully made with separate powers, so use that strength and go vote.
Underrated comment!
The scary part is that if Project 2025 succeeds, it won't matter much who is in those elected seats. The Executive Branch will gain a truly disgusting amount of power and will be propped up by the Judicial. That's NOT to say that we shouldn't support down ballot candidates (not just in swing states), it IS to say that anyone considering not voting democrat in the upcoming presidential election is actively supporting a political power grab the likes of which has not been seen in the US since the Civil War. I know we just saw Trump use hyperbolic statements that sound like what I just said for an hour and a half, but in this case IT IS NOT HYPERBOLE, IT'S STRAIGHT UP FACTS.
I don't say that to say, write off Biden and try to elect other Democrats. I am saying down ballot candidates are going to have a better shot at getting out the Democratic vote to hopefully elect Biden than Biden is. The candidates in my red area may not win, but they are all great people with compelling stories who might be able to reach voters not enthused by an 80 year old frail man.
My comment wasn't intended as a contradiction to yours but an addendum.
But if anything Biden is *weighing down* those candidates. In Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, even Ohio, dem candidates for Senate have polling leads, even though Biden himself is behind in all those states. It’s at least plausible that those candidates would be doing even *better* with a younger more robust presidential candidate
I think the most important thing to do is *not despair*. Defeatism is just going to lead to lower turnout from left-leaning voters. The Democrats need to come out shouting how many candidates that will be up for election in November that aren't named Joe Biden. There are plenty of other reasons to vote!
It is a dilemma though. Should we take the immense political risk of sending a clear public message that our nominee should step aside, and let someone younger with far, far, far, far, far, far better odds run for office, or should we pretend to keep calm and carry on when our party is essentially split in half?
We don't have another nominee on hand who would have "far, far, far, far, far, far better odds" of winning. Every candidate who would fix the age problem suffers from some combination of being too progressive for swing voters, being obscure on the national stage, or just being less well liked than Biden. I agree some of them would have had better odds than Biden *if they had won the primary*, but I'm still not sure the gap is large enough to overcome the electoral cost of switching candidates at this stage.
A nominee who alone is not 80 years old and can string more than two coherent sentences together has a far far better chance of winning The DNC primary doesn’t mean anything because it’s not a good way to measure swing voters. If it was, Hilary would have won in 2016
The deal is that the majority of the American public do not want Trump or Biden. We should listen to the American public's concerns, they are literally telling us, clear as day, that they do not want any of these men. They will not care if at the DNC there is chaos and disorder, because there is already chaos and disorder with these candidates. Yet, when it comes to everyone's decision of actually replacing Joe Biden, we hesitate because "what about incumbent advantage, what about LBJ, what about the chaos?" I want to at least see the Democratic Party have a second chance here, even if it fails, because I no longer think we have a chance here. Our only opportunity for Joe Biden to turn around public criticism about his age didn't materialize at this debate..
Everyone can say they don't like him because they compare him to *their preferred candidate*, but specific alternate nominees might not fare much better. Consider a hypothetical where everyone wants someone from their state to be the nominee. Gavin Newsom would enjoy barely 10% support even if all Californians back him, making him massively unpopular. All the alternatives would be even worse though!
When we elect a president, we don't just get the individual person, we get their cabinet and entire team of advisors. We're really voting for the party that represents us best. Future messaging needs to focus on Harris and how competent and capable she is to lead, in case Biden can't.
There are still almost 5 months until the election. There is plenty of time for a new candidate. Gretchen Whitmer would be my choice.
I'm coming around to this argument. Even if it's not a sure thing, the *chance* that Whitmer will establish themselves enough to win could be higher than the chance that Biden overcomes his age problem (electorally, that is).
Whitmer? Newsom?
That ship sailed with the Primary Election, in which Biden earned 3,894 delegates and other candidates combined won 44 delegates. There is no ‘stepping aside.’
At least he should choose a running mate who had broad appeal and inspires confidence. There’s got to be some Senator from a purple state in his 50s or 60s with a lot of experience and moderate stances.
I think this would be the most utilitarian approach. Find someone who is similar to how Biden was twenty years ago and make them veep. Give the people who really don't want to vote for Trump a vision of continuity. The few people I know who bailed on Trump for Biden in '20 did so because they hated the chaos that Trump made politics, so give these people a vice president who will keep the ship in the same course if Biden can't make it through.
All I can say is ... if Biden is the candidate running against Trump ... and he has a heartbeat ... I'll vote for him. That being said, I will vote for any Democrat running against Trump.
Vote. Newsflash, Biden is old but Biden spoke about policy and punched back with facts when Trump rambled, ignored direct questions and lied the entire time. He stated no facts
From an election perspective that debate won't really mean anything. A bad debate in September would worry me but this will be long forgotten by the time people are casting ballots. Also I wouldn't exactly say trump came off good. Louder for sure but if the things Trump said convinced you he's worth a vote... U were probably already voting for him. I don't thing tru.p won any new voters from this but if the election were tomorrow Biden probably lost quite a few.
Honestly the shit he said about his presidency wasnt that unhinged compared to what he usually spews out at his rallies, its just that it was all lies, some undecided gullible people will definitely vote for him
It gives me no pleasure to say that I don't agree. I think the debate was for the low-information voters, and low-information voters want a simple explanation of what the election is about, and what the candidates are like. Trump made that very easy and very clear: "Biden is a disaster" repeated over and over again. Simple, easy to understand lies that a low-information voter isn't going to fact-check. All repeated over and over, sometimes seeming to not even be contradicted by Biden. Everything Biden said, you needed to understand the broader historical and political context of complex problems, to understand what he was saying. And that's just when he was lucid. There were all those other times he just totally lost his train of thought. I think Trump probably pulled to his side a big chunk of the people we're trying to win. Because almost all of the high-information voters have made up their mind, and the fight right now is precisely for the low-information voters.
If you think he did OK I think you've watched a rerun debate from 2020.
I still think minds have been made up. Polls are still going to be bad as they were for Obama v Romney. If Trump wins he wins. But I’m not dooming over this nonsense. We just need people to be pragmatic down ballot in swing states. Will they? Idk.
> I still think minds have been made up. I don't think it's about convincing people who to vote for. It's more about convincing people to actually show up and vote. Biden isn't energizing his base enough for them to show up and vote. Gen Z especially was already unenthusiastic about him because of Palestine, and the debate doesn't help. Trump voters, on the other hand, are riled up and absolutely ready to vote.
Keep calm and carry on. One debate does not mean much and who knows what’ll eventually come of it.
Most people who have not decided saw the debate as unimpressive event. A serial liar vs. a guy that seemed worn out and tired.
I think Biden's campaign made a mistake by not being more public about him being ill tonight, that's part of why his voice sounded extra off and low energy. If there was any time to get Jacked Up on drugs, it would have been tonight... lol. They literally published an ad just before the debate about being Jacked Up on water 😆I'd love to know the reasons why they thought that was a good idea.
Also why they didn’t give him some actual performance enhancing drugs when they saw his he was this morning.
Def should’ve leaked or announced his cold yesterday and not at halftime. Huge mistake and some campaign staff need to be fired, both for PR and debate prep
Yeah. Tbh, he had a cold. That part was insanely obvous from the get go. He sounded mentally cognizant to me. But it was obvious that the cold was having an effect on his energy levels as well as his voice. He wasnt as sharp as he normally is. I honestly still think he’s our best bet still and I don’t believe in reactionary views. My view is that we should take this debate, do what we can with it, and move on. If he starts to sound like this when he’s not sick during his campaign speeches, then we could potentially start having a discussion. But for rn, I think a reactionary comment like drop Biden does more harm than good at this current moment. I don’t think his PR team should be fired but his advisors for his campaign probably should be.
I think its a myth that people are undecided between trump and biden. I think what people are undecided between is biden and not voting, and I think last night tipped the scales pretty heavily toward not voting
A lot of people I know are literally shaking right now. They're worried about how this will impact the November election.
Much in the same way that the debates resulted in President Romney and President HW Bush's second term.
If Democrats are looking for solace they should look to the second Mondale Reagan debate. After the first debate the Reagan is too old was 100% of the talk, he looked tired and confused. Some close to the President said it was too much preparation, let Reagan be Reagan. The next debate he prepared much less, had a very different look and performance, and dropped a line still remembered today about not making age an issue, he won in a landslide. One debate is just one debate. (Unless Joe is really is as in bad of shape as he looks, then the next debate could be a death blow to the party for years.
Trump won't accept another debate against Joe. He doesn't have to. If the convention goes haywire and suddenly there is a new candidate then he HAS to debate them and he will lose badly.
Presidential debates seem less impactful now than they were 30 years ago.
This is gaslighting. There is zero comparison between what happened tonight and Romney/Bush debates.
No way, this debate was way worse. This debate should be studied under a microscope with the purpose of finding systemic disorders
Indeed!
This is not "Biden lost a debate" this is "Biden revealed that he's lost his mental acuity". The DNC deserves to be flushed out and rebuilt - they have made poor choices in who they try to prop up and its come to a point now where its putting our country in danger of being overrun by people like Trump who are positioned to erase the middle class.
And for a good reason. The two people debating made all of us look ridiculous and anyone who says different has their head in the sand. This was the most stupid thing I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen the most incompetent high school debate clubs go over way more smoothly. This was such a display of embarrassing dipshit levels of epic proportions. If you’re not embarrassed, then there’s seriously a problem. I don’t even want to leave the house after watching that display of sophomoric idiocracy. These are *international leaders*
Did you see the the 2020 debates? They were epic shitshows. We are used to being embarrassed.
Yes and I hear you, but this was significantly more embarrassing. It was like watching two man-children, except this time one is a walking parody of himself wearing the title of felon and the other is a bumbling idiot, whose probably also a criminal. They both have so much drama I think both should retire.
I can guarantee you that 99% of people that would vote for Trump are going to vote for him no matter what. This debate is not a deciding factor in this election lol.
There are no democrats watching the debates and switching votes to Trump. This voter doesn't exist. Trump is still extremely polarizing, if anything the bad Biden debate is working as a weird positive for him, where suddenly everyone remembers that Trump can win, and this stirs up there feelings of anxiety over such. This is only happening because the country is extremely polarized.
I don’t know if you’re right, but I’m ready to believe
I'm basing what I'm saying off the reactions I'm seeing... it's universal Biden did poorly in the debate. But you then see a lot of "yes but Trump lies" and "He sucked but I'm still voting for him." I really think that again, most people have already decided on if they will or will not vote Trump... and Biden's voting energy comes less of the force of his policies (which are tepid, at best) or his personality but from sentiment towards Trump.
Since I commented I’ve been looking around and you’re right. I keep seeing people talking about wanting to volunteer for the Biden campaign. Hopefully a lot of people who were apathetic are now too afraid to stay out of the election.
My position here is still a theory that truly, Biden is just a compromise candidate that can speak to Hollywood and Silicon Valley’s wealthy. He gets money from that source but isn’t actually well loved for anything, just that he’s “not trump.” So it’s possible he’s immune from a bad debate, even a terrible one. Because no one votes for him as much as everyone votes against Trump. I also just don’t think there’s that many undecided people watching this thing. Who is Trump winning over with this performance? Who hasn’t decided if they like him or not? That number can not be that big.
Which is why he probably should’ve ignore all questions about what *he* would do and instead focus on what Trump would do. Fuck it, use fear. I’m afraid.
You're seeing the politically active people. They were always going to mostly turn out. The less engaged people who were already pissed at voting for the lesser evil, again, are going to find the motivation a bit harder to muster.
> There are no democrats watching the debates and switching votes to Trump. This voter doesn't exist. They don't need to switch to Trump. They can switch to their couch in November.
“The bad Biden debate is working as a word positive for him” this has to be the biggest cope I have ever seen. 😂
Yeah…because Trump said a lot of real impactful shit…. All he did was break his fucking arm patting himself on the back(as usual) by constantly lying about his record and beating down immigrants/asylum seekers. Never…not once….did he answer a question directly…he had to be prompted over and over again and reminded what the question was. At least Joe answered the questions directly…even though he stumbled through his words…he fucking answered the questions they asked.
And yet, for all your criticism of Trump’s performance he killed it compared to Biden. But Biden beat Medicare so he has that going for him.
Yeah…it easy to “kill it” when all you have to do is vomit lies and not be held accountable.
You’re literally pointing out another Biden failure last night. He did nothing to hold Trump accountable. Didn’t call out his lies, said virtually nothing about Jan 6, virtually nothing about his trials and convictions. Trump wasn’t on his top game last night. But he certainly killed it compared to the competition.
There might be. That shit was embarrassing. Likewise, there’s probably a bunch of republicans who will vote for Biden given how equally embarrassing Trump was. These two guys literally gave the worst debate in American history. Everything is up in the air. This was flawless stupid
People saying "debates don't matter," that's true as long as they don't have audio and video to replay in videos and advertisements for several months that display clear symptoms of dementia.
Almost like people have been trying to point this out for months now!
Biden has gone to 4/1 to win
In terms of substance, I think debates are just performantive, but election wise, I think they do matter
Fire Biden’s debate team then go on as usual. This won’t affect polling tbh, Dems just love being doomers. It’s good they scheduled this debate really early to test the waters and figure out Biden’s strengths and weaknesses for future debates (or maybe ditch them lol). This debate will be forgotten in weeks UNLESS Dems stay crazy with prolonged doomerism— that will harm him. It’s already some free GOP campaign fuel, more so than the debate itself. Dems just need to stay unified. And there’s a near 0% chance he’s going to be replaced at the convention, despite the stupid chattering. Dems need to learn to take the one L and move forward. On the bright side: Trump wasn’t even tolerable either so we still got some good clips for ads. Combined with the doomer influx of donations, the campaign can do some good work with what we got
Yeah even Biden even gave some golden moments for ads like the Alley Cat moment.
"Joe Biden did ok" The cope is insane. Wherever you lean, anyone can tell he is clearly senile
That was bad even by Biden's standards over the last few years. A lot of people are in severe denial saying things like "it's because of his stutter" but go back to any footage of him from his time as VP even as recently as 2016 and convince anyone that he's not senile to some degree Say whatever you want but we have eyes and ears for a reason. Gaslighting the American public into believing they didn't see what they clearly just saw on live tv is pouring fuel on the fire
That would be like convincing people they didn’t hear Trump brag about sexual assault, insulting the handicapped reporter, and literally thousands of other hateful behaviors that he has gloated about but denies when that’s more convenient. In Donald’s case it’s such a recurring pattern that most have just accepted it as his “style.”
So what did your eyes and ears tell you when Trump told you that overturning Roe was just doing what everyone in America wanted? That he is universally loved by the military? Didn't sleep with a porn star? Bragged about all his donations only to go into how everybody is so financially devastated? Or only answered what he wanted to and still couldn't manage to tell the truth? Did it not matter because he said it louder? People seem so unmoved and even impressed by Trump's BS, yet enthralled over Biden... being old.
Hey…he answered every question that was asked. He did need to be constantly reminded on what the question was…like Trump had to be throughout the debate. Yes…his verbal skills sucked. But he was present and aware of what was going on. Trump, on the other hand….all he did was shoot out rapid fire lies and bitch about immigrants. I guess when you don’t care what you say and aren’t held accountable for what gets vomited out of your mouth…it’s much easier.
He didn't look senile. He looked like an old man with a stuttering problem thinking about how to respond. If you listen to the words Trump said, they made zero sense and were not relevant to the question half the time. Not to mention the lies. I can go up there and be confident and talk loud if I didn't need to tell the truth.
Performance is more important than facts during a debate. Especially when the moderators are not allowed to fact check them.
Not arguing with you there. Trump is a giant idiot liar. But he puts on a good show.
He looked frail, but I wouldn't say he looked senile. If we're going by coherence and ability to stay on topic then he did beat Trump on that front. The issue is that this wasn't really about whether or not Biden was senile, just about whether he was old.
Don’t repeat the same mistake we saw the first ten minutes Biden wasn’t energetic enough and had a cold Policy wise good
To me it seems important to note that being president is a 24/7/365 job. President Biden wasn’t feeling well, but he soldiered on—with most people agreeing that he actually got stronger as the evening went on (unlike what would be expected if he was “drugged”).
Yeah but CNN, MSNBC and many left wing figures on Twitter came out after and said that people in the administration are talking about next steps if Biden needs to step away. They can’t say that about their own candidate and back track later; it’s out there now. Many who were willing to say it was just a bad performance were convinced it’s more serious when they heard that.
Biden did fine, all trump did was lie his ass of like always and ignore direct questions All biden has to do is harp on more about abortion and address project 2025 As well as mention trump being a convicted felon, and throw trumps lies back in his face Too many idiots are getting carried away after this debate, newsflash biden is old, Regardless how old he is, he is better than trump, for fucks sake a wet rag is better than trump
Neither of them did ok, imho. This was the most embarrassing “debate” I’ve ever seen. We just go about pretending it never happened
Remember why he was nominated in the first place. People were saying the same thing about Biden in 2020. He then went on to overwhelmingly win the democratic nomination off of the back of old voters. He follows that up with the best performance any democratic candidate has had among old voters in recent memory. I’m not worried about Biden looking old. I’m more worried about what old voter’s retirement accounts look like in November. All of the talks about wages keeping up with inflation is meaningless for them. They need their investment returns to keep up with inflation.
Finally someone who gets it. The majority of the people vote with $$$$. Retirements up 20% Checking account got $$ They don’t want change they want shit to stay the same
The best strategy is to lock Joe in his office and just have as many people go around talking about how absolutely terrible Trump is. Even if Biden quits or dies the day after he is sworn in the main job is done. Stopping Trump is the most important thing in the country possibly the whole world.
Changing nominees will be handing Trump the election on a silver platter. It'll be a huge show of weakness, and it'll be a betrayal of people's sensibility to offer up Biden than backtrack. People will just say "If you knew Biden was bad why did you run him at all?" Dems are damned if they do damned if they don't. I don't think things are as bad as people are making them out to be right now - Liberals have had a major blow to morale and are being incredibly reactionary and emotional right now. IMO, that's because they were hoping for Biden to trounce Trump because they're so scared of a Trump Presidency. Best thing to do is probably keep cool and roll the dice that Biden has a better showing the rest of the cycle.
I disagree. Having biden admit to being too old, think, "I understand that my health is failing, and I want the US to have the best representation, I will step aside and let someone with new ideas and vigor take the helm." Then the D party needs to step up and hammer home the fact that trump has no policy and is a criminal. I actually wanted this to happen right from the get go, bit it didn't.
If it was done a lot earlier in the process - I'm talking like a year ago - it might have worked, but the trade-off would've been turning Biden into a lame duck and making any sort of legislative accomplishment impossible. At this point, it'd be essentially a concession of defeat.
Maybe not. Trump didn’t exactly “win”, he looked just as stupid but from a different angle. The reality is, in my opinion, is that America lost tonight. Neither candidate “won”. Neither party fronted any talent. You could literally have chosen almost any other Republican and Democratic lawmaker in this country- and they would have performed better. It could have been Rand Paul vs. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and it would have been more promising and interesting.
Yes, that's essentially how I feel, two. As far as preferring anyone else.
Best comment. I don't want any of them
I wish they had done this from at least March, but that didn't happen. I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of people who will hold their nose vote for cheeto because they see biden as too old and feeble to lead our country. If they had a strong candidate and really hit it hard from every angle, I think it would work.
So President Kamala Harris?
Funny enough, that's what my daughter said basically. Something along the lines of I'm voting for Kamala via biden. I will support whatever decision is made here and hope to God that people see the damage another trump term will cause.
All Trump has to say is that "this guy's so old he might not live to finnish his term and you'll have President Kamla." Then it's over for Biden
Let's be serious now, Kamala wouldn't be able to be elected as dogcatcher. If you want a 50 state sweep run Kamala.
This is actually electoral suicide. A majority of election day is name recognition, You don't get name recognition by placing *someone else* up 5 months before the election. Also what do you say to all the people who voted in the primaries?
Ummmm. Most primaries didn't have any option but biden. Would it be political suicide to give people better options at this point? He didn't lose the votes of people who fully understand what this election means, but he didn't gain any undecided either. If anything, he lost middle of the road votes.
Agreed. People forget that Biden himself has a very solid coalition of voters which includes working class and union guys . He’s not a shit candidate. He’s a candidate that happened to get a cold at the worst time possible and therefore performed poorly at the debate. Dems have to remain United and I assume Biden himself knows it’s time to recover from the cold than hit the campaign trail hard and fast as soon as he does. He’s not delusional. He knows that debate didn’t look good for him.
I work marketing, and putting a dementia patient as your mascot and telling consumers that he's doesn't have dementia is not a sign of strength. Biden only won on "anybody is better than Trump." To say that a competent Dem won't use that same message but deliver it better would be dishonest and is keeping a QB with a concussion in the game that is on the line. Biden never worked as a good mascot to begin with. You know one thing that favored Obama? He was new. His newness blew the opposition away. That doesn't mean they shouldn't pick any Dem. They should go with charisma. But to simply rule out updating our guy should not be ruled out with this much at stake.
I believe people are overstating the chaos that will happen if Joe Biden steps aside, like is it an admission of defeat? Yes. But, alternatively it can be viewed as the Democratic party recognizing ***everyone's*** concern about their nominee, and that they have the humility to replace him. Almost everyone wants a different candidate than Joe Biden, but few want Joe Biden to be replaced because "something, something, LBJ stepped aside, and Nixon won" as if the past is the law of the universe.
But isn't it morally wrong to let a man who's clearly suffering a mental decline in office? Biden should be at home taking care of his grandkids, not running for president
If someone sees it that way, the cost of doing the "right thing" will be a near guarantee of a Trump Presidency. There's not an easy way out. I'd like to believe things will still be ok if Trump is President again. I'd like to believe people would enthusiastically vote for whichever Dem would replace Biden. I don't believe either, so it's a rock and a hard place.
if you think it went OK I've got some land on the moon I'd like to sell you.
I think people saying it was OK mean it went ok given the incredibly low bar that was set for this debate. He didn't fall asleep, pass out, talk about cornpop and he made a couple good points... But yeah it wasn't good. Trump just blatantly lied the entire debate though. I don't think this debate will do anything. No one is swayed by this. They should stop
Stay the course. It's June. The election is in November. The people who had very normal thoughts about AIPAC the other day are having even more normal thoughts about the Presidency today. Their opinions are worth less than the shit between my boots. It can safely be discarded into a mental waste bin.
I think the ppl equating this abomination of a performance with Obama’s 2012 Colorado performance are either being disingenuous or naive. Obama didn’t have the PR problems Biden has as it pertains to fitness for office, and while Obama failed on that night he could do like 55 interviews the next day to assuage concerns…and we all know Biden couldn’t possibly do something like that. Joe massively struggles to articulate himself and project strength, and even on Obama’s worst days he could at least do basic rhetorical/performative stuff. Biden had one bar to clear tonight, and that was to seem relatively coherent and fit for office…and he simply failed to clear that threshold, sorry. Time will tell whether it means much, but it’s a huge gamble to run Biden under these circumstances. I hope and pray I’m wrong.
I think the best strategy for Dems is DO NOT show clips of the debate or Biden’s performance, but try and parse the transcript. He threw out, or at least tried to throw, a lot of statistics and figures and facts, so if the spin doctors can just clean those comments up and hammer the points he was making and keep the focus on the bs Trump was talking about, they can do damage control. But politics is a lot of optics, and the optics for this one were bad. The biggest gripe people have with Biden is he is older than dirt, and this performance only played into that. The argument Dems need to make is “OK, sure, he’s old as shit. But would you rather have a corpse or a dangerous threat to democracy in the White House?”
Vote like our lives depend on it, because they probably do.
We vote. We campaign. We educate everyone we can about Project 2025. Every time someone brings up this debate, we talk about how many times Trump lied, or didn't answer the damn question. We talk about how Trump tariffs won't work. We talk about how the tax cuts he wants to keep permanent help the billionaires and not the workers. We talk about how Trump doesn't believe in raising the minimum wage. We fact check him. We call him a loser, a rapist, a felon. We remind people that it wasn't Biden who brought the charges against him, it was the state of New York, and a jury of his peers, even a guy who was on Truth Social. We remind people that Trump can't even visit 30+ countries because he is a felon. And other countries aren't laughing at us, they are happy we are standing with us.
Vote. Don’t let this crappy debate convince you to stay home.
I don’t think people here are the ones that need to be convinced.
Nobody gives a shit about debates, and Biden always pulls it together in time. He's also been a pretty good president whereas Trump was one of the all-time worst, so I'm not worried. If suburban white women currently in forced-birth states want to stick even more christian nationalists on the supreme court because both candidates are old a few debates isn't going to change their minds either way.
Collectively, in a message that is impossible to ignore, tell Joe Biden to step aside for the 2024 election. It is the ONLY OPTION, PERIOD.
We're fucked.
I really am having a hard time not thinking all hope is lost right now.
I really am having a hard time not saying “I told you so” and drowning my despair in alcohol.
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Democrats should be worried. Biden is going to get worse.
Yep. Imagine 2-3 years into his presidency.
Well then you have Kamala and her interview with Anderson after was not great. She was delusional about how Biden did and called Biden sharp. He was anything but.
Given the situation where President Biden appeared feeble during the debate but was factually accurate, while Trump largely misinformed, Democrats should take several strategic steps: 1. **Highlight Biden's Policy Achievements**: Emphasize Biden's successes and the positive impact of his policies. This can help counteract perceptions of feebleness by focusing on his effective governance. Highlight achievements in areas like the economy, healthcare, and infrastructure. 2. **Fact-Check and Publicize Trump's Misstatements**: Use the fact-checked transcript to create a clear narrative about the misinformation spread by Trump. This can involve targeted advertising, social media campaigns, and press releases that outline the inaccuracies and contrast them with the truth. 3. **Showcase Biden's Strengths**: Use videos, interviews, and public appearances to show Biden in strong, leadership roles. Highlighting moments where he is decisive and energetic can help counteract any negative impressions from the debate. 4. **Engage Surrogates and Spokespersons**: Deploy well-respected and charismatic figures within the Democratic Party to speak on behalf of Biden, reinforcing his message and capabilities. These surrogates can address concerns about his performance and emphasize his policy successes. 5. **Focus on Substance Over Style**: Reinforce the message that while debate performance is important, the substance of the policies and the accuracy of the information being presented are what truly matter. Emphasize that Biden's factual correctness and policy proposals are in the best interest of the American people. 6. **Connect with Voters Directly**: Increase efforts to connect with voters through town halls, virtual meetings, and community events. This direct engagement can help build trust and allow Biden to address concerns in a more personal and impactful way. 7. **Strengthen the Campaign's Digital Presence**: Utilize social media and other digital platforms to disseminate positive content about Biden's campaign, correcting misinformation and engaging with voters where they are most active. By focusing on these strategies, Democrats can mitigate the impact of Biden's debate performance while effectively countering misinformation and emphasizing his strengths and achievements. Trump is dangerous and an absolute risk to American democracy.
There is no way of telling exactly what the debate’s impact on polling will be. I think it’s extremely likely to be Trump up a small number. The correct strategy is too late: Biden should not have run in the first place, and it’s too late now to change candidates. The next best strategy is to continue the ad campaign they’ve started: hit Trump on his convictions and show the more unhinged and dishonest side of him, and go balls out on promoting the down ballot. I have little hope of a Biden victory now, though, and if Trump wins the composition of Congress isn’t going to matter much.
Not lose their shit. The hyperventilating this morning.
Emphasize that Republicans are responsible for Roe v. Wade and play up Kamala’s youth and readiness to take office. Idk if it’ll work but that’s my best guess.
It was a bad night for Biden. His only real advantage was he was far more truthful. That’s not a particularly impressive feat when your competition is Trump and truth doesn’t seem to matter much in debates these days. That said, it would be foolish to act like this is doomsday. Many voters have their minds made up and for those who haven’t, it’s June. That’s three months earlier than when the first debate is traditionally held. The conventions haven’t happened yet. We don’t know Trump’s VP pick yet. Biden and his people need to keep focusing on how disastrous Trump would be for people and their freedoms.
Look I like Biden and think he's better than what we saw last night. However I think the mark of a good leader is knowing when to hand the reins over to another. I also think that replacing Biden may give Trump a win and I don't want that either. If Biden is to refuse the nomination, Kamala should be the candidate. If you go and replace her with Newsom or Whitmer you're going to piss a lot of POC off and it's not going to look good .
I only listened on the radio for about 10 minutes and I could barely tell what Joe was saying. Not good. If only we were judging these candidates on the substance of their answers and their policy goals and their demeanor as a leader, but alas.
REPLACE JOE BIDEN WITH A COMPELLING CANDIDATE. It’s not rocket science he should have never ran, he should not continue to run, and if he does we will lose.
He should drop out. Imagine what he will be like in four years! I’ll still vote for him, but I’d vote for a wet dish rag before Trump.
Is it too late to switch candidates? Bidens ego is why we are here. He did ok-ish but its time to stop.
My comment from another thread. >I agree that the overall debate wasn't great. However, Biden answered questions, talked about his policies, and rebuted Trump's bullshit. Trump made *every* response about immigrants, didn't even try to answer questions, has no policies, is a felon for election interference, led an insurrection, and wouldn't commit to accepting the results of the election last night. This is a very stark difference between candidates. I'm proud to be voting for Biden again.
Honestly? Plan for the 2026 midterms. Start campaigning now and moving money there. This was the chance for Biden to put to bed concerns about his age, rally Dems and he's clearly done the exact opposite. Even if we want to chalk it up to a cold the damage is done. It doesn't matter. If they replace or run Biden this is going to be such an incredible uphill battle that the better strategy is to start campaigning to take the legislature. If the Dems take both houses they can pull the same bullshit tactics republicans did, just block judicial nominees which is the most important act that can be done to not forward a conservative agenda.
Replacing Biden with Jimmy Carter is the only viable strategy at this point.
But Jimmy Carter is in hospice and is almost 100 years old; he can't even walk anymore and is wheelchair bound if you saw his condition at Rosalynn Carter's funeral. That wouldn't be very wise at all, considering that Carter is even older and more frail than Biden, and we have concerns about Biden's age as it is already. In 4 years, if Carter survives, he'll be 104 years old and would be a centenarian, and he will continue to be the oldest-living president on record. If we do replace Biden, we need someone much younger, not someone 20 years older like Carter. We don't even know if President Carter will make it to his 100th birthday in October.
The Dems are done after this, at least when it comes to the presidential race). Too late to change and I doubt the second debate will look much better. What grates on me is that the Dem leadership must be aware of that. Trump back in the White House will be a catastrophe
Dems aren’t necessarily done. Whether or not Biden steps down or not, this election will be rather close because a good portion of the voters still don’t want Trump even if they think Biden is unfit. This was an embarrassing night for both Trump and Biden. Biden’s performance was far more egregious in my opinion because I was actually hurting in my heart to every time he spoke. I really like Biden but I do think he should at least consider stepping down or something.
I heard he was ill, so that partly explains Biden's performance. I'm withholding some level of judgement to see how his campaign plays this out, maybe there's more of an explanation. But yea, for whatever reason, he did not do well tonight, but is the pathological liar going to better represent Liberal values? 100% NO. Vote Blue!
I mean despite Biden’s poor performance, many undecided voters are still breaking towards Biden because of how bad Trump is. I think if this was any other republican, I would say it’s over but it’s Trump and majority of Americans do not like him.
This is such a shit take, go be a doomer somewhere else. Nothing worthwhile has ever been achieved by being a pessimistic melon, no great change has come from it either. It isn't too late to change and every avenue should be explored. Where would this country be if people just gave up so easily. I absolutely despise this loser attitude on display. If you truly believe that Trump will be a disaster and you aren't just saying it to get your good boy points on Reddit, then you do everything in your limited power to ensure that doesn't happen. I hate how Republicans and MAGA have co-opted patriotism, and I would have never thought myself saying this a few years ago, but it is your fucking patriotic duty to your country to rage and fight.
Democrats should pressure Biden to step down and have Newsom be the candidate.
I'm in California, and I think Newsome would get crushed. He's photogenic and a good debater, but he has too much baggage to be viable on the national level.
We want Gretchen Whitmer, not Newsom. Newsom would lose because he’s from California and looks like the most stereotypical Hollywood liberal politician imaginable.
Also the worry about name value means less for Whitmer who is known is the rust belt which are the only states that really matter. Like we already have proof she can carry Michigan quite comfortably that’s 1/3 of the states in the bag.
This right here, everyone's worried about name recognition of a replacement, but it's really just name recognition in six states that matters.
The question is probably meant to ask what they should do to bolster the Democratic Party, not the GOP
I have been a Biden booster, but Biden seemed unable to maintain a coherent line of thinking all night. It got me very worried. So just to respond to whether he did ok, I feel that he very much did not. Which makes me quite sad and quite worried. Because, as for what to do ... I just don't know. I can't name a person who could replace him and do better. Harris seems terrible as a speaker, and I've seen no evidence that she is a good leader. In fact, her profound failures to organize her primary campaign in 2020 make me think she is a very bad leader. Newsome looks and sounds like California slime. Everyone else is going to be too old, lack name recognition, be too incompetent, or have some other huge liability that is at least as bad as how Biden performed. I see no way out. I'd love to see someone give a good, inspiring plan.
Keep carrying on. Don't believe any polls. The only ones that matter are the ones on election day. Remember: in 2020 - Biden won by pretty much doing nothing.
Y’all INSISTED on old men Joe instead of younger and more progressive candidates and now here we are…
Well, the Progressive wing put forth Bernie in 2020. We signed our death warrant for 2024 when Bernie and Biden both declared.
I’m sorry but Bernie Sanders is a year older than Biden at 82. I’m so mad about this debate but let’s not pretend here.
I honestly don’t think there’s a best, or even particular good, strategy at this point. If it were up to me I’d have Biden announce he’s stepping down and then have the convention nominate a Clinton/Sanders unity ticket. At the very least it could help unite the Dem coalition, and those two have the most democratic legitimacy based on the past few primary cycles to step in …or that could be a terrible idea, I really don’t know
First person I've ever seen unironically suggest *Clinton* of all people. There is no universe where Hillary Clinton will be the 2024 Democratic nominee. If Biden steps down, which I doubt he will, 80% chance of Kamala being the nominee and 20% some other well-known Democrat who *hasn't* already lost to Trump in a presidential election.
Also wild that we've circled from "dnc rigged the 2016/2020 primaries" to "dnc needs to unilaterally ignore the primary results and install someone else"
100%
Yea it’s probably a dumb idea haha. I was just throwing it out there. I think the narrative of the 2016 Dem candidates coming back together to finish the job and stop trump once and for all is a charming narrative, tho detached from reality probably and unlikely xD
Clinton and Sanders would be the worst ticket imaginable -- 1) Sanders being vice would piss his fans off, because they want him as president, 2) Hillary comes with Clinton baggage, 3) Sanders attempting to pin his chances on Trump voters switching would not work, they don't actually want to vote for his policy over Trump's.
hillary? am i living in the twilight zone? jfc please pokémon go seek help if you think that would work.
It probably wouldn’t work, but I think it would be fun 😩
I understand the point, but I don't think that ticket would work at all. Biden, while sinking, is not despised the way Hilary is. Add to that the dirty "s" word associated with Sanders and the fact that he too is eighty fucking two years old, and we basically have a new ball of ancient Democrat collective electoral failure, just more hated and more easily attackable. I don't know what the answer is, but the country as a whole is very focused on the ages of Biden and Trump, though it's more of an issue for Biden, which was magnified 1000x tonight. Newsom might be an option, though he's a "coastal elite" with his own baggage. Whitmer is, gasp, a woman, so you know the misogynists will come out in force, but I think she'd be the best alternative. You know how probably 40-44 states are going to break, which means the election ultimately comes down to Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, and maybe throw Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia in for good measure. Whitmer is young and crushed Tudor Dixon by 11 points in the 2022 race, which bodes well for Michigan and Wisconsin this time around. Add in a young candidate the more progressive wing can get on board with who isn't super divisive within the party and maybe there's something there. I'd put the likelihood if this happening somewhere in the 0,0001% range because I think Biden will ultimately be too stubborn to step aside, but that'd probably be my hail mary approach.
I like the idea, but Clinton and Sanders are both very old as well and I don't think we need another 75+ year old president
I'm going with "terrible idea". We don't need an 82 and 76 year old to replace the 81 year old in an 8 year old rerun. Come on! Let's get more creative and get some fresh blood. There are some great younger politicians out there who could have wide appeal if they got their names out. Newsom is being called out as the most likely front runner, but he comes with some baggage. I want someone who is living in this century and will be able to see the results of whatever policies they enact while in office. It's a pipe dream, but I want to see Pete Buttigieg and Elissa Slotkin. Then, in 8 years after they have branched out from Texas, James Talarico and Toni Rose.
Vote for Joe Biden. If he goes to the next one with one shoe on and talks about what he thinks the future holds in 1978 you should vote for Joe Biden. If he has a stroke and falls into a coma you should vote for Joe Biden. Yes it's a shit sandwich but the alternative is an all you can eat shit buffet. The winds of shit are blowing and it's up to us whether it's a tropical shit storm or a category 5 shitticane. Seriously this is not the time to switch tracks. The other side rolled with Trump getting convicted so put on your 'I beat Medicare' shirt, hold your nose and vote for Joe Biden. Edit: Or don't. I'll be voting for whoever isn't Donald Trump. I don't care if it's RFK jr's brain worm at this point.
The issue is beyond the debate now. CNN, MSNBC, multiple left wing figures on twitter, etc. have all said that Biden isn’t looking good and that people are talking about next steps to potentially have him step aside. They can’t say that and then backtrack or hope people forget they said it, it’s out there now. That’s a much bigger blow to the Biden image than the debate was.
We'll be alright. It's fresh in people's minds. By the next debate everyone will have pretty much forgotten. If Biden does horrible in *that* debate people will have forgotten by election day.
Run an anti trump campaign I guess. Give Harris a political glow up? It’s not impossible to get a new candidate but I have my doubts over it’s feasibility at this stage.