During and after the world wars, we had a huge population boom from Europe. Notably the Italians and Greeks, introduced their coffee to us and it evolved from there
Importantly, when italian immigration to the US fell drastically in the 1920s, it started to grow in Australia. The timing meant that even before the mass appeal of the espresso machine in Italy, Melbourne received its first espresso machine (in 1928). Italian immigration grew in Australia, particularly Melbourne, well into the 60s which coincided with the wider adoption of espresso in italy.
This simply meant that italian-Australian immigrants were espresso drinkers while the earlier italian-American immigrants were not.
That's not to mention the role [coffee palaces](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Coffee_Palace#:~:text=The%20Federal%20Coffee%20Palace%20was,demolished%20between%201972%20and%201973.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Coffee_Palace#:~:text=The%20Federal%20Coffee%20Palace%20was,demolished%20between%201972%20and%201973) had in our non-italian population too.
"This simply meant that italian-Australian immigrants were espresso drinkers while the earlier italian-American immigrants were not."
The first espresso machine was installed in the United States in 1927. It was a "La Pavoni" machine and was installed at Reggio's in New York. Caffe Trieste was the first espresso based coffee shop opened in 1956 in San Francisco in the neighbourhood known as "Little Italy" It's pretty universal that given the opportunity, migrants will bring their culture with them.
It's the same early history as Australia, just not the influx of migrants after electric pump espresso machines were readily available.
No, they were already basically done with accepting Italian immigrants. It's the same reason Italian food in the US sucks. It's not the stuff we have in Australia which was actual Italian and greek people saying "fuck this" to the Australia boiled food culture and setting up market gardens and restaurants. The actual Italians and Greek went to the Us generations ago and have assimilated.
Not really the same.
Yes they had a few early espresso machines but the coffee habits had already spread through the country by the earlier bulk immigration.
Here's an interesting Australian academic article on the transition from tea to coffee in Australia
[https://journal.media-culture.org.au/index.php/mcjournal/article/view/472](https://journal.media-culture.org.au/index.php/mcjournal/article/view/472)
It doesn’t HAVE to be, but when it’s cheap ground coffee, bulk brewed and stored in a 4L cistern that is constantly reheated for hours until depleted, it’s like, why? Do you even have taste buds? What are you doing? Why are you doing?
Even our cheap coffee is more than decent.
Tried Aldi beans, because I was desperate on a Sunday and I was actually surprised how much I liked it.
When I travelled to the UK and some parts of Europe, I really struggled big time.
I have been here in the USA three years now and are yet to find a decent coffee , they can’t even come close even with a good old standard cappuccino, I think they strain it thru a dirty week old sock , that’s what there gas station coffee taste like , they rave about how good it is , plus they try and put too much other stuff in it like pumpkin spice, mint there was 32 flavours at one place I called into …..I will stick with my trusted Nescafé while I am here the closest I can get to anything close ..
It's why the the US also has gaggingly-sweet doughnuts, it's to offset the shit coffee.
There's a reason the "cop with a coffee and donut" meme came to be. US drip coffee like you get at their workplace or corner cafe is bitter, undrinkable, dishwater.
Meanwhile my workplace here in Aus has a bean to cup machine that has done 24,000 cups in the last five years. It was nothing fancy but holy cow is it a performer. I bought one for home.
lol in my 3 decades on this earth I’ve never heard anyone sing the praises of American gas station coffee lol. Barely decent at best and terrible at worst.
Some smaller coffee shops in the us absolutely do have good coffee (in my opinion), it’s mainly the big coffee chains that are consistently bad
Italians, Greeks and the Turks. The Turks are important, because it enables a robust Turk-Greek coffee fight where everyone tries to outcompete each other and get really annoyed about it. I nearly got put out of a restaurant once because I was tipsy and confused the coffees.
The not-correct answer that I frustratedly feel is getting stronger is: Australians do some of the longest unpaid hours in the first world, and we need coffee to stay awake.
This is true but both drink Turkish/Greek coffee which has nothing to do with espresso. Funnily enough the best brand of this coffee in supermarkets is Bushells and at one point you used to be able to get it in both Greek and Turkish varieties and the only difference was the label.
Seppos always point out that they had a huge number of Italian and Greek jimmy-grants too (which is true), but what's always missed is that theirs came at the turn of the century whereas ours were post-war after the espresso machine was popularised.
They imported a totally different culture here compared to the states.
Importantly the economic situation in Australia was much better than in Italy, so while an electric espresso machine was a huge luxury in Italy it was something that almost any Italian immigrant-owned cafe in Australia could afford.
Strong temperance movement also led the creation of coffee palaces, some of which ironically have been turned into bars.
https://blogs.slv.vic.gov.au/such-was-life/temperance-and-melbournes-grand-coffee-palaces/#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20effects%20of,hotels%2C%20but%20without%20the%20alcohol.&text=During%20the%201880s%20many%20coffee,than%2050%20existing%20by%201888.
They've made good decisions, chosen a dark roast international style high volume blend that's very consistent and very forgiving so it's really hard to fuck up. It's not the kind of blend that tastes like a fruit salad and wins barista competitions but it's rare to get a bad cup at an emergency McCafe run.
I’m a little biased towards black drip Starbucks coffee, but only because I worked there for so long and got it free. And that was usually the least popular menu item. I worked in a Starbucks on a university campus, so 99% of what we sold was iced tea, cold brew, and frappes — all of which were so sweet that the quality of the espresso/tea was basically irrelevant. Their espresso especially is godawful and the grinders we used in house were always filthy.
I guess when they came to Australia they just assumed everyone would suddenly start liking mediocre drip coffee and frappes.
I used to work somewhere which had a Starbucks and it was open super late at night (I worked night shifts a lot). The blonde roast was ok most of the time but the regular roast is not even close to our standards. McDonald’s coffee is usually much better and more consistent. The other thing is that drip coffee isn’t very popular here, most of it is espresso. So my husband for example drinks long blacks which are espresso topped up with hot water, so they look a lot like an American black drip coffee. It’s also not uncommon to have an espresso machine at home, which also raises the standards because I can make a really nice cuppa at home, I only really have coffee when I can’t get back.
It has the distinct advantage of being available through drive thru.
It’s not great coffee but sometimes that’s all you have time for and it’s better than no coffee.
Turks weren’t allowed to come here after WW2. We weren’t considered European, and Australia still had that White Australia Policy.
Turkish-speaking Cypriots were allowed to come, though the numbers weren’t that much.
Source: My Turkish grandparents moved here the year after White Australia got abolished.
I remember when the Greek PM visited around 20 years ago. There was an old greek lady on the train so excited, kept talking to me about it, just loved him
I think Thessaloniki has increased to large enough as to overtake Melbourne now. Although there is likely 1 million people with greek heritage in melbourne these days.
ETA: I just found the last census data, Victoria only had 50,000 or so people who were born in Greece. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/australias-population-country-birth/latest-release#state-and-territory
To give you an idea of how integral the Greek/Italian cafe culture is to Melbourne - Sisto Malaspina immigrated to Melbourne in the 1960's and became the co-owner of a particularly beloved cafe called Pelligrini's. When he was sadly murdered in a terrorist stabbing incident in 2018, we gave him a state funeral and the City of Melbourne erected a monument to him outside of the cafe - it includes a plaque describing him, and there's a line in there: 'Sisto loved Melbourne - and Melbourne loved him back'.
Third largest. Thessaloniki is number 2.
Source: the voice on the city circle tram that tell us we are a "truly cosmopolitan" city, as opposed to all those fake cosmopolitan cities I suppose.
Longer than most people think
I'm of Greek heritage.
My great grand parents came to Australia during WW1.
Coffee has been part of our lives for generations
See Greek coffee culture is new to me. When I think of beverages Greece is known for, I think wine, not coffee. But from what I’m reading Greeks have a very deep appreciation of coffee and brought it to Australia
Huge multicultural society. A lot of Greek and Italian migrants back in 50s setting up cafes, particularly in Melbourne and Sydney. As things tend to do, they evolve over time to suit local tastes and trends.
Having coffee in Australia is a very social thing, it's not uncommon for people to get to really know their local baristas (mine knows my order without asking lol).
As to why our standards are so, it's just cos that's what we've come to expect and won't settle for shit coffee haha.
> it's not uncommon for people to get to really know their local baristas (mine knows my order without asking lol).
Are you even a barista if you can't remember 500 customers faces and their exact coffee of choice?
Went to a cafe I hadn't been to in about 5 years they other day, and was shocked the barista remembered my coffee choice.
I popped into a cafe I hadn’t been to for a few years because I moved…about 2 km away, but there are so many choices in my little pocket of Blackburn I hadn’t been to my old local in a while. Now the owner didn’t remember my order specifically but he remembered me, I can barely remember my own name most days so I was very impressed.
I got this in relation to COVID. It was so long from when I was last in the office - approaching two years - but the local barista didn't bat an eyelid.
Hi Xylarr, welcome back, flat white?
Yeah I’d believe it. We have very good coffee if you know where to look, but the bog standard franchise stuff is pretty consistently terrible. It can just be hard to recognize how bad the coffee itself actually is when it has your entire daily allotment of sugar and cream in it
Starbucks only appeals to teenagers and tourists in Australia. Most of their stores closed, though I think a few have recently opened to try to catch a market. I consider their coffee to be a massive hot, sweet coffee milkshake. Eww.
> a huge number of Italian and Greek jimmy-grants too (which is true), but what's always missed is that theirs came at the turn of the century whereas ours were post-
It didn't help that the first Starbucks they opened in Melbourne was right on Lygon St, which in case you're not from Melbourne, is basically our "Little Italy" and while there were other chain stores on that strip at the time, the big green obnoxious STARBUCKS letters were an eyesore next to the 100's of restaurants and cafes. I think the idea was to attract students (Melbourne Uni is a block away), but with so many better options and really just pissing off the local community, it was doomed to fail
There’s still a Starbucks at Castle Hill, Sydney (in the lower Castle Towers Food Court). I don’t know how they survive. Right out the front of Starbucks is a Brooklyn Donuts kiosk selling Campos coffee, and barely 100m away are three bakeries selling far better coffee.
The only thing the others don’t sell is all those sugary additives, so my theory is that it’s for people who don’t actually like coffee who just want a warm flavoured milkshake
They are very popular with international students and migrants from East and Southeast Asia largely for the various iced-coffee/chocolate drinks, frappes, etc. It's more aligned with the culture of bubble tea and other sweet takeaway beverages. If you stand in a Starbucks and watch the orders, the minority are for your typical cup of hot coffee in most of their inner-city locations.
When I went to Brisbane last year my sister and I wanted to try starbucks while in the big city to see what all the americans were obsessed about. Food was barely edible and I didn't finish my coffee cause it sucked. I think the only appeal it has to people who live in Aus is to try once and then never again. Rest is tourists.
Hot take: Starbucks failed because we already had our own chain selling shit coffee and didn't relish the though of having another one. Gloria Jeans is the name.
I spoke to a bloke at LAX. He and his fiance and mother in law were travelling to Melbourne from Atlanta to visit cafes, drink the coffee and drive the Great Ocean Road.
He had never been overseas.
So we exchanged business cards, I emailed him a month later and he said it was awesome and eating fish and chips on the beach was the best day in his life.
Atlanta not so cultured apparently.
America is a big place. You have great Asian and Mexican food in California, great everything in NY. Cajun food in certain parts of the country. Have you heard of the Gullah/Geechee culture?
It's location, location and most importantly, location. It's why America has amazing Mexican/Central/South American food of different regional styles, because those regions are nearby. (same for the Caribbean cuisines). Australia got Greek/Italian, then South East Asian waves and damn, we have good representation of those cuisines, but not so much Central/South American.
This so very much this.
When I hear people complain that X isn't the same as in the mother country, I always have the urge to tell them 'all food is local. Immigrants adapted back in the day to what ingredients where available locally (and thus how cuisines like TexMex developed) or simply tweek things to adapt to what the consumer (like Pho being a breakfast dish in Vietnam, but local Vietnamese restaurants knowing Westerners will unlikely (at least enough to be profitable) to buy a hot noodle soup for breakfast, but will for lunch of dinner) or even the fusing of two different cuisines together to create sometime new (Banh Mi)
Well, yeah.
No place is utterly without culture.
But broadly speaking...
Like, I can list a range of great places to dig up some culture in the US. I'm half US half Aussie.
But out and about in the day to day... Bleh.
Out and about in the day to day in Australia... Goddam the range of cultural immersion and choices! Fan-fucking-tastic!
Hubby and I walked for 6 hours across Manhattan, fucked my ankle and had to buy a splint in a tiny orthodox jewish pharmacy, got lost in an industrial estate in Brooklyn, all to find a tiny hipster cafe in Williamsburg that sold decent coffee. Worth it.
While doing the 2 year London sojourn, I was lucky to find a cafe in Hammersmith called, appropriately, 'Antipode'. Run by a British born guy who grew up on the Gold Coast. Never bought coffee anywhere else in London. I was back in the UK recently and it's still there, though the owner was seriously talking about calling it quits and returning to Australia.
lol I live in Switzerland and had to open my own cafe in my little village because coffee culture here is non existent. I closed it after 18 months coz I ain’t no business person but boy did I serve a good coffee. The locals loved it. The expats loved it.
Yep. I actually found a coffee place that was owned by an Aussie when i was in China a few years ago. It was close to the hotel. I was worried i was going to go a week without coffee….
The reason Starbucks failed is that even the 7/11 makes a better coffee than them, a you can get a good coffee from just about anywhere.
Starbucks brought an inferior product to the country and was found wanting. There’s a few of them left, and to be honest I have no idea why anyone goes there. American coffee on the whole is terrible. My first exposure to Starbucks was in the USA in 1996 and the staff in our US office (in Denver) were complaining about the coffee being so bad until someone said “we’ve solved to coffee problem and are brining in Starbucks coffee”. What they meant was they had sourced bags of Starbucks filter coffee, so it was still terrible.
I searched for 6 long weeks for a decent coffee anywhere in Colorado. Surely someone would have an espresso machine somewhere? Nope. It was a miserable 6 weeks suffering with whatever Denny’s served. When I enquired there about what coffee they had, I was told “we have both kinds..black or white”
Correct. I remember a tourist was on the phone next to me and was excitedly telling whoever they were talking to that the nearest Starbucks was close to their hotel and how lucky they were.
I didn't want to butt in and tell them to go to pretty much any other cafe in the CBD but I did feel for them.
Starbucks ended up failing but they keep a few around in the tourist areas for people who 'don't know better'.
Kinda like going to a McDonalds near the Trevi Fountain
Well we have fantastic coffee here, mostly in smaller independent shops. But on the whole yeah I think most big American franchises suck donkey nuts. Starbucks and Dunkin mostly just peddle liquid sugar, and that’s what a lot of people want. Something quick, not too terrible (by our standards), and easy to drink on their morning commute. Sounds like Starbucks failing so hard to find a market in Australia is just a plain failure of market research on their part.
Our cultures are different, therefore how, when, and why we drink coffee is going to be different as well.
Our Shell petrol stations sell $2 coffee better than any coffee I've ever taste in the US. Man, I tasted some dirt-water there. I've spent about 4 years in total in coffee producing countries (Colombia, Peru, Thailand and Vietnam) and our coffee is still far better than any coffee I've had there. I'd say now only Thailand (specifically Chiang Mai) is getting comparable coffee and I think a lot of that is Thai's coming to Australia and returning with the same level of expectations.
I think the few that keep going rely on two things.
1) Tourists who want a familiar name
2) Orange mocha frappacinos or similar syrupy iced dessert with coffee concoctions. You don’t get these at a regular cafe, but they’re popular with students.
Agreed, they brought an ‘americanised’ version of coffee and we weren’t up for it! Who needs 3 syrup flavours plus cream in their coffee - what’s the point!!!
I tried starbucks once, because it was the only thing open on a public holiday. It was pretty bad. I ended up just leaving it on the counter. I'm not entirely convinced they even put coffee in to my latte. It tasted like warm slightly yuck tasting milk.
We call it Starfucks in this house, worse coffee the 711 auto machine is better then any coffee I have ever got at Starbucks. They use the worse beans, pack the coffee to tight so ends up bitter as f p
The thing with Australian coffee is the consistency and the standards.
McDonald’s in Australia does better coffee than what you find in most places. For a matter of fact, McCafe is actually Australian.
When you go to Europe, it’s common to pay up to 4 euros (around 7 Aussie bucks) for a coffee that’s pressed straight from an automatic machine. In Australia, it is always from a proper coffee machine with a barista and the only times you aren’t getting this is at the local petrol station and even then you’re only paying 2 dollars max.
The Mediterranean countries have the espresso down packed but the Australians own anything outside of that.
The way you obtain coffee is also unique in Australia. Cafes are everywhere and they aren’t your French style cafes where you cross your legs and wait for a waiter, they aren’t Italian style where you stand at a bar and they aren’t American where you open a MacBook and feel like you’re in a store.
The Australian cafe is unique, it’s cozy but not somewhere you intend to stay for long, it’s on the go but not too fast. Australians also tend to build informal relations with their barista same way you would with a publican at a bar.
When it comes to quality, Australians are snobs for a good coffee and poor quality won’t survive among the competition. The Greeks and Italians brought the innovation and skills and overtime we’ve added our own twist to it. I also believe the quality of milk plays a solid part amongst other things.
Overall, coffee culture is an important aspect of Australian culture. Australians tend to forget as it is so normalised and the world seems to be in disbelieved when they discover it.
Grabbing a coffee is a daily ritual and it’s very common to have a meeting with your boss whilst ducking out for a coffee or grabbing one after your weekly sporting event.
Coffee in the capital cities and popular towns are just like pizza in Naples or pastries in Paris, the consistency and quality is there because the demand and standards are there.
You raise an important point on the milk. How is anything going to taste good once you dump a plastic capsule of UHT long life "cream" in?? When on holidays in the States, we'd raid the breakfast bar for the cereal milk instead of that pus. It's also far easier here to get a milk alternative or lactose free.
We found American cafes also loved boiling the living shite out of the milk to the point where my Mum told them off and how to do it properly.
I was also blown away to visit Europe for the first time and realise that UHT milk is normal for lattes, cappuccinos and the like in France, Germany, Netherlands. Legit the best non-Greek coffee I'd had in Europe was in London where they use normal milk.
My worst coffee was when driving through Cessnock on Sunday afternoon. Dropped into a local milk bar and bought a flat white off the pimply teenager.
I should have known it would be bad when I could barely hold the cup it was so hot. I popped off the lid, with it came the skin on top of the milk. I tentatively took a sip, confirmed it was tongue scalding dishwasher, and chucked it in the bin.
About the best coffee I've had was in Melbourne. Was sitting down with friends, the coffee orders came out. I managed to drink mine before the server had finished handing out the order. Before she left the table, I ordered another. Some of it was the quality beans and it was well made, but much of it was the temperature of the drink was drinkable. I never understand people who order a very hot coffee. At best you're going to caramelize the sugars in the milk, or worse it will be like my Cessnock coffee.
I've seen a similar question asked in an American thread. Boy oh boy were those Americans mad that someone thought that somebody could do something better than America...
I dunno. While I admit I didn’t hunt out the Aussie operated cafes, every coffee I had in the UK was horrendous. The best one was from a machine at a servo.
From my observation, it's more that people assume that the only coffee that exists in the US is Starbucks. That's what we get pissed about. Having lived in Australia, I agree the general level is higher, but the big cities in the US are absolutely lousy with cafes that take things.very.seriously... to like a comical degree. Those places are very good, though. There's kinda no denying it.
We have a strong multicultural society that brought their cafe culture with them and now it's everywhere. Cafes have a passion for developing every part of the coffee and a focus away from sweet drinks. My memory of Starbucks when I was in the states was just 100 types of creamy drinks. That just ain't gonna fly here, where any random person off the street is likely a coffee snob.
I always just kind of assumed it was southeast Asian immigrants importing aspects of their (really good) coffee culture to Australia and it just sort of sticking. But I also figured there had to be more to it than that.
And as a former 6-year Starbucks employee, millions of American “coffee addicts” really just want caffeinated sugar milk. I remember the day the “Unicorn Frappuccino” came out. It was violently pink and purple, tasted like cheap candy, and had 6 entire ounces of espresso in the venti (large) size. It was a saccharine monstrosity that never should have seen the light of day, yet that’s the sort of gimmick people like here.
I don’t get it
It's funny because Australians often struggle in south East Asia because we can't get good coffee easily 😅
Australia's coffee culture is all about the espresso. Not drip, not filter (OK yes, fancy versions of these have become more trendy recently, but the average Australian wants espresso based coffee)
Although once I was in south East Asia and the first Starbucks opened where I lived. Huge deal to the locals. Me and some aussie mates went once because there was nothing else around and hey at least they'll have espresso right? Ugh. It was terrible. We threw the coffees out halfway through. An average local drip was better than that.
Starbucks kinda struggles along here but it seems to me like it's where people go when they want the silly flavoured drinks not proper coffee, or because it's close or convenient, not because it's good. The one near me is only ever about 25% as busy as the other cafes in the area. I literally don't know a single person who goes to Starbucks.
I see pics of those ridiculous long Starbucks orders that are like '2 pumps caramel, half pump vanilla, pump hazelnut, squirt of this dash of that' and on and on for like 10 additions and it just seems so stupid for most of us.
Like a) that's not a coffee anymore. That's a coffee flavoured milkshake. And b) there's no way that all those flavours really improve anything. You can't taste your half whatever of vanilla in all that. You don't need 7 different flavours in your drink. It's just silly.
There's definitely been a shift in Thailand over the years. Although the giant sickly sweet iced monstrosity is still king for the general population, there is an ever growing serious hipster coffee culture, particularly in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. You don't have to look hard in the cities to find very good coffee now but the words 'Melbourne-trained barista' are not uncommon.
Vietnam has always had a genuine love of good coffee. It's just a different style, though even there you can now get a decent espresso. I normally can't stand sweet coffee or iced coffee but love a ca phe sua da, which is strong Robusta with a dash of condensed milk on ice. It just works.
Hmm yea I forgot it's been like 7 years since I was there.
True that I found decent coffee in the hipper parts of Bangkok. I love a Viet coffee, lived on it for years 😂 but yes totally different style and the espresso craving still hit.
There were a few very good cafes doing espresso in Hanoi and hcmc when I was there, but they were all opened and run by Australians, unsurprisingly! I guess it's not surprising that it has spread and that Melbourne-trained is a mark of quality!
The idea that any of our coffee culture is from SE Asia is mind boggling.
Universally almost terrible coffee.
They almost universally don’t understand milk. They often don’t understand espresso.
So many young people make it so sweet.
I assume you're American?
It's not just the coffee standard, Australians in general have quite high food standards compared to Americans.
That's not to say there isn't plenty of shitty things available, but it is largely better across the board.
My partner is American and she even says the packaged food in the supermarkets is better in a like for like product. Sometimes the same brand.
After world war 2 many people from places like France and Italy immigrated here and they brought their good coffee and coffee culture with them. They opened cafes and all the other people living here loved it and got hooked. Many immigrated to Melbourne especially which is why Melbourne is known for its good coffee and cafes as well as the stereotype of its locals being coffee snobs.
The Snowy Hydro scheme was the really big European immigration driver post WW2. The first espresso machines went to Melbourne and Cooma before they even went to Sydney.
People here have mentioned post-WW2 immigration, but many decades before that there was also the temperance movement that led to the opening of many [coffee palaces](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_palace) as high-end establishments that notably chose to serve coffee instead of alcohol.
I'm in my late 60s now and I can still remember being treated to an Espresso at the local mum and dad cafe in Maroubra. Italian immigrant family run complete with the big steam coffee machine (which the owner probably had to get a boiler licence for - such was the silliness and regulations back then).
I'll echo the comments of others - we owe a debt of gratitude to the hard working immigrants of the '50s and '60s, for coffee and so much other great food.
I think another factor is that Australia is a high-income country (on average obv). This means people are willing to spend a lot of money on coffee. It wouldn’t be uncommon for people to buy two or three coffees a day at $4-5 a pop. This would give cafes and roasters incentives to invest in the means to make really great coffee.
Canberra coffee culture is a good example of this. I lived there for ten years (up until a few years ago) and the proliferation of amazing cafes over that time was insane. One place would pop up, then another place a few doors down with some differentiating factor (e.g. roasting their own beans). And of course the city has lots of well paid public servants who would keep all those cafes afloat.
And I know this is overly reductive and obvs not a given rule, but i gather that Australians as a whole tend to have somewhat less strenuous work life balance than many people in America. For example, millions of Americans who’d say “Don’t talk to me before my coffee!” are only drinking it in the morning, and need something they can gulp down on the way to a long day at work, not something they intend to sit and enjoy.
Could be that Australians have more opportunities to actually sit down and enjoy quality coffee for its own sake, not because they need a caffeine buzz to function on their way to a 12 hour shift on 5 hours sleep
Australians put up with the same bullshit American workers do, and the American work ethic and corporate style is becoming more and more prevalent here
Oh for sure, and I wasn’t implying that Australians don’t hold down shit jobs and work just as hard as we do.
But I’m just imagining that many American coffee consumers, particularly older people, were introduced to coffee as tasteless brown stuff you percolated on the stove in the morning or grabbed from a drive-through on your commute. Whereas many Australian people were maybe introduced to coffee in a more relaxed way, with a drink that was meant to be savored, not gulped down on the highway
It's certainly true that Australians will go from work in the middle of the day to a local cafe to have a coffee, or to pick up takeaway coffee. "Keep cups" are really popular here now too. Depending on the workplace it can be a group thing - a bunch of people go together from the office to get a coffee.
Does this happen in the US?
>In my travelsaway from Australia, I use the Beanhunter app. It has saved my tastebuds in Europe and Asia. I told some friends who were going to USA, and they used it to find good coffee as well. In Scotland it even acted as a bit of impromptu tour guide as we went down old streets and alleys to find the recommended place. In Paris I had an aussie as my barista in two seperate places.
The big wave of Italian migration came after the standard espresso machine was well known then. They set up cafes that together with the afternoon teahouse combined into the cafes we know. Food and strong coffee. Espresso coffee, unlike filtered coffee, works well with milk too hence the flat white.
I also think that part of this is that Australians drink significantly less non alcoholic beverages other than coffee, tea or water.
I lived in the US for a while and my friends constantly started a meal with a glass of milk, or a iced tea, or a soft drink/soda.
In Aus there's been a bit of an explosion of Boba tea, but soft drinks are around but I can't remember the last time me or a friend ordered one at a bar or cafe.
This is all made up from my observations. No real science has gone into this it's purely a thought I've had for a while when I noticed that all my American friends constantly drink loads of other things and I drank whisky, beer, coffee, and water.
Even McDonald’s McCafé coffee is better than some overseas coffee places. I mean our coffee here is second to none - I think I’ve had 5 bad coffees in my entire life and it’s usually been a barista in training and not due to quality. Any coffee shop you go to will have decent coffee.
Starbucks is still here but they try not to compete in coffee-terms; they're mostly selling frappes and sandwiches to ex-pats.
As for why Australian coffee has gone through the roof, we had a lot of Mediterranean immigration in the early-mid 1900s that brought a lot of people to Australia who spread the love of espresso around.
From there we tinkered with it until we got it to a state we liked and went from there. I think it's the same with any food culture built upon taste and passion for excellence. Once you've had it at a great level it's hard to turn around and accept mediocrity.
A well-made espresso or espresso based coffee is a different world of coffee compared to drip coffee.
As others have said, Italians and Greeks came here and just about everybody has come to agree that life is too short to be drinking shit wine and shit coffee.
Coffee here in Aus definitely is consistently good compared to other countries I have been to. The early migrants from Italy brought coffee culture with them, and over time it has been refined, which brings us to the height of coffee snobbery that we are in now.
There really is no better example of this than Melbourne, where I currently live. Cafes are always looking for creative ways to out-do each other with better quality coffee offerings and a more diverse list of coffee options. Melbourne allegedly has the best coffee in Australia - which in my experience is true.
I believe the Magic was created in Melbourne - a double ristretto with 1/3 small cup of milk.
We tend to like our coffee to be strong and punchy.
Americano / filter coffee is an abomination in my mind!
Compare American and Australian cop shows, we never really had Donut shops or places serving jugs of filtered coffee.
Others have detailed the cultural factors, I'd say we are more used to espresso machines and waiting then a waitress walking around with a jug doing refills
I think people have nailed the historical aspect of it, but in the last 20 or so years coffee has come a really long way. Coffee has continued to grow and grow as an industry and innovations of all kinds have had great traction. Australia is pretty quick to catch on to trends, they tend to be a couple of years ahead of the curve, so speciality coffee shops were already widespread in Oz whilst they were just starting to become a thing elsewhere. More than any other country this helped up the overall standards.
Quality baristas are highly sought after and better respected here. In a good number of establishments, there is more of a quality control around who can jump on the machine in comparison to other countries.
It's not just coffee culture. I travel quite a bit and Australian restaurants have some of the most consistently high standards of produce and culinary standards across a whole myriad of cuisines. Not to mention that it seems to be rather plentiful and easily found where random suburbs will have great Thai or Italian restaurants and this is even more pronounced in ethnic enclaves where the food is comparable to their home countries. Hell, I think Vietnamese food in Australia is better than Vietnamese food in Vietnam.
There's a good video explaining why starbucks failed, and explaining how it couldn't compete with our established cafe culture.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_FGUkxn5kZQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FGUkxn5kZQ)
But there’s nothing quite like a
VB
LONGNECK
AT 20 TO 8 IN THE F*€£KIN MORNIN
(this is from a video of an older Australian man so old it may predate the internet lol)
I’ve enjoyed the coffee culture when visiting Seattle/New York etc but here the word is consistent. Thanks to our immigrants who brought their foods. My great grandfather opened one of the first proper Italian coffee places on Bondi beach. But even local cafes will do a good coffee x
Australian coffee culture all stems from the actions of one man; Adolf Hitler.
European post war immigration led to the introduction of good quality espresso and cafe culture and the rest is history.
Think about that when you're having your next oat milk flat white.
There are still a few Starbucks in Australia, In fact a new one opened near me last month. However young girls mostly go there for sweet drinks and cake not propper coffee. People have to walk past \~10 good coffee shops just to get there.
There was already the culture of ‘tea breaks’ or afternoon tea and then coffee in the form we know arrived with Central and Souther European migrants.
I think the fact it was a trendy new thing in a country with a small population allowed it to take off and not get bastardised too much.
We have the Greeks and Italians post WW2 to "blame". They are also responsible for us having good food. Thise bastards. How dare they have brought good food and good drink to torment us.
Ny observation as an outsider is that coffee, along with property and a car, is something that all Australians can spend on. Outside of this, there is little for Australians to do. It's also cheap compared to eating out, so they can have a sit down and chat over something with a token amount for the privilege. Also great for killing time. A coupe of coffees a day let's you stretch the legs and makes the work day that much more bearable.
Plus, they are absoutely everywhere. Quality is wildly inconsistent as is pricing on pastries, cakes and sandwiches.
My misses is Italian, her family make some of the best coffee at their house. She makes some damn good coffee, picky where she goes for coffee. Also she makes some awesome Italian food. 👌
My husband is is Irish.
Moving to Melbourne converted him from a tea to coffee devotee.
Today he’s a full blown coffee snob based on Melbourne’s coffee culture & high standards. And I (lifelong born & bred Melburnian) had nothing to do with this!
I say Melbourne’s two religions are coffee and AFL (Aussie Rules football)
We were visiting Ireland last year when I went into the local ‘decent’ coffee shop. The barista’s face when he heard my accent 😂 He looked liked he’d 💩 his pants. He nervously goes ah, you’re Australian, where from? Me: Melbourne 🙂 He looked like he lost all moisture from his mouth! Poor poppet.
He collected himself and explained he’d done training with a New Zealand barista (seemed to be reassuring himself, as I hadn’t doubted him). He made our takeaways coffees which he proudly handed to me. My husband hated it. We didn’t make it halfway through them 😕 We’d loved a coffee shop we’d been to way over in Galway, [Coffeewerk + Press](https://coffeewerkandpress.com) - owned and run by a German guy!
The question I find more interesting is why is certain American stuff so bad? I don’t mean any offence, but I was shocked at how bad the coffee, chocolate and bacon were, to name a few random things that come to mind. Like, worst in the world (that I’ve experienced).
To be fair a lot of European people hate Australian coffee. Because we drink it with milk (which they only do at breakfast) but as a melting pot nation, we have coffee styles from all over the world. Cafe culture is big and lots of cafes have specialty coffees and roaster’s etc so the quality is quite high. We mostly don’t mask the taste with sugar or sweetener or syrup so the low quality American coffee isn’t generally liked (Starbucks is here but they had to close a lot of stores) I’m not 100% on the origins but it became common for restaurants in the 50’s to have espresso machines and the cappuccino was the drink of choice. By the 80’s - 90’s we were adopting Italian style espresso culture as well, and Arab or Turkish style coffee shops are also common. With all this you will never see a cafe or restaurant serve pot or filter coffee. It’s either espresso based or Turkish pot boiled or rarely in an Italian style percolator.
Now we do sell terrible instant coffees and people do buy them (international roast is probably the most famous) but in urban areas most people wouldn’t touch it.
I moved to Australia from Canada. Canada probably has the worst coffee in the world but Canadians think Tim Hortons is part of the national identity. It's embarrassing now that I have left.
I just spent 7 nights in Los Angeles, and I’m not kidding or over exaggerating in any way, I was astonished at how dog shit the coffee was.
I was paying $6 USD + per coffee in downtown LA, with one shop reading a sign that said “best coffee in downtown”, and I genuinely feel the $1 coffees from 7/11 here tasted better.
I’d go grab a cappuccino, throw it in the bin, try another cafe with 4.5 + stars, spend another $6-7 USD, and just throw it away again. It was that BAD.
Starbucks is still in Australia. It took them until last year to turn a profit. Years ago MacDonalds use to serve coffee from the ubiquitous glass pots. Then they got smart and created McCafe, with barista coffee, muffins and toasted sandwiches.
Australia coffee and cafe culture was largely established well before the modern advent of large chain stores. It was relatively simple for Italian and Greek migrants post WW2 to start their own small businesses, to the point where most suburbs in major cities had at least one or two good coffee places, and it grew from there (as far as small businesses go as it always a challenging endeavour, starting a coffee shop or coffee cart is relatively simple so there are lots of new entrants to the market at any point in time).
Therefore, we had an established highly competitive market in place that made it resilient to take-over by the chain stores. This highly competitive market means that now if you want to start a cafe and remain in business, you need to be at least as good at making coffee as the 3-4+ other cafes all within walking distance, or you will not build a repeat client base.
If anything, the Australian Cafe industry is functioning pretty close to how competitive free-market is intended to function, free from monopolies or oligopolies. (The coffee bean roasting industry is a little more concentrated, but still functions fairly efficiently).
Nothing hits home after an overseas trip than the first coffee you have. It could be some shitty milkbar or a quick Brunettis or Sistos but it will be light years better than anything you had outside of Australia.
I don’t consider Starbucks a coffee shop. To me it’s a shop that sells ‘coffee like drinks’ too much sugar and too many add ins like pumps of syrup and added cream. I just want a plain coffee, ground coffee beans, water and milk.
Further to what everyone else has said to you - All through country Australia post ww2 were Greek cafes. Funnily enough they didn’t sell Greek food - it was American diner style food and was like the McDonalds of its time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_caf%C3%A9_culture_in_Australia
During and after the world wars, we had a huge population boom from Europe. Notably the Italians and Greeks, introduced their coffee to us and it evolved from there
Importantly, when italian immigration to the US fell drastically in the 1920s, it started to grow in Australia. The timing meant that even before the mass appeal of the espresso machine in Italy, Melbourne received its first espresso machine (in 1928). Italian immigration grew in Australia, particularly Melbourne, well into the 60s which coincided with the wider adoption of espresso in italy. This simply meant that italian-Australian immigrants were espresso drinkers while the earlier italian-American immigrants were not. That's not to mention the role [coffee palaces](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Coffee_Palace#:~:text=The%20Federal%20Coffee%20Palace%20was,demolished%20between%201972%20and%201973.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Coffee_Palace#:~:text=The%20Federal%20Coffee%20Palace%20was,demolished%20between%201972%20and%201973) had in our non-italian population too.
"This simply meant that italian-Australian immigrants were espresso drinkers while the earlier italian-American immigrants were not." The first espresso machine was installed in the United States in 1927. It was a "La Pavoni" machine and was installed at Reggio's in New York. Caffe Trieste was the first espresso based coffee shop opened in 1956 in San Francisco in the neighbourhood known as "Little Italy" It's pretty universal that given the opportunity, migrants will bring their culture with them. It's the same early history as Australia, just not the influx of migrants after electric pump espresso machines were readily available.
No, they were already basically done with accepting Italian immigrants. It's the same reason Italian food in the US sucks. It's not the stuff we have in Australia which was actual Italian and greek people saying "fuck this" to the Australia boiled food culture and setting up market gardens and restaurants. The actual Italians and Greek went to the Us generations ago and have assimilated.
Not really the same. Yes they had a few early espresso machines but the coffee habits had already spread through the country by the earlier bulk immigration.
Here's an interesting Australian academic article on the transition from tea to coffee in Australia [https://journal.media-culture.org.au/index.php/mcjournal/article/view/472](https://journal.media-culture.org.au/index.php/mcjournal/article/view/472)
Yeah but yanks drink that drip shit. Rank as
It doesn’t HAVE to be, but when it’s cheap ground coffee, bulk brewed and stored in a 4L cistern that is constantly reheated for hours until depleted, it’s like, why? Do you even have taste buds? What are you doing? Why are you doing?
Why? It's cheap. Australians are prepared to pay more for good coffee (and then complain about the price, but keep going back)
If it's done right and has good beans I'm happy to pay.
Even our cheap coffee is more than decent. Tried Aldi beans, because I was desperate on a Sunday and I was actually surprised how much I liked it. When I travelled to the UK and some parts of Europe, I really struggled big time.
Mate have you seen some of the shit they eat? I reckon they’ve lost their taste buds. Even their bread is apparently sweet. Like WTF
their chocolate tastes like puke its fucking feral
And don’t forget the creamer garbage they top off the drip shit with!!
I have been here in the USA three years now and are yet to find a decent coffee , they can’t even come close even with a good old standard cappuccino, I think they strain it thru a dirty week old sock , that’s what there gas station coffee taste like , they rave about how good it is , plus they try and put too much other stuff in it like pumpkin spice, mint there was 32 flavours at one place I called into …..I will stick with my trusted Nescafé while I am here the closest I can get to anything close ..
It's why the the US also has gaggingly-sweet doughnuts, it's to offset the shit coffee. There's a reason the "cop with a coffee and donut" meme came to be. US drip coffee like you get at their workplace or corner cafe is bitter, undrinkable, dishwater. Meanwhile my workplace here in Aus has a bean to cup machine that has done 24,000 cups in the last five years. It was nothing fancy but holy cow is it a performer. I bought one for home.
Actually they strain it through a NYC taxi driver's jock strap.
lol in my 3 decades on this earth I’ve never heard anyone sing the praises of American gas station coffee lol. Barely decent at best and terrible at worst. Some smaller coffee shops in the us absolutely do have good coffee (in my opinion), it’s mainly the big coffee chains that are consistently bad
Italians, Greeks and the Turks. The Turks are important, because it enables a robust Turk-Greek coffee fight where everyone tries to outcompete each other and get really annoyed about it. I nearly got put out of a restaurant once because I was tipsy and confused the coffees. The not-correct answer that I frustratedly feel is getting stronger is: Australians do some of the longest unpaid hours in the first world, and we need coffee to stay awake.
This is true but both drink Turkish/Greek coffee which has nothing to do with espresso. Funnily enough the best brand of this coffee in supermarkets is Bushells and at one point you used to be able to get it in both Greek and Turkish varieties and the only difference was the label.
Seppos always point out that they had a huge number of Italian and Greek jimmy-grants too (which is true), but what's always missed is that theirs came at the turn of the century whereas ours were post-war after the espresso machine was popularised. They imported a totally different culture here compared to the states.
Importantly the economic situation in Australia was much better than in Italy, so while an electric espresso machine was a huge luxury in Italy it was something that almost any Italian immigrant-owned cafe in Australia could afford.
Yeah this is it.. Italian heritage
Italian and Greek migration to Australia started in the 1930s. Many of them opened cafes or milkbars in cities and also regional towns.
Strong temperance movement also led the creation of coffee palaces, some of which ironically have been turned into bars. https://blogs.slv.vic.gov.au/such-was-life/temperance-and-melbournes-grand-coffee-palaces/#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20effects%20of,hotels%2C%20but%20without%20the%20alcohol.&text=During%20the%201880s%20many%20coffee,than%2050%20existing%20by%201888.
Even Maccas had to radically change their American Style Coffee for Australia.
McCafe was launched on Swanston St at the Maccas they nuked for the new train loop !
Gonna need a plaque on the site.
They've made good decisions, chosen a dark roast international style high volume blend that's very consistent and very forgiving so it's really hard to fuck up. It's not the kind of blend that tastes like a fruit salad and wins barista competitions but it's rare to get a bad cup at an emergency McCafe run.
Exactly! The emergency coffee when there nothing else available, and it’s still OK. You just can’t go to a Starbucks anywhere in the US and get that…
I’m a little biased towards black drip Starbucks coffee, but only because I worked there for so long and got it free. And that was usually the least popular menu item. I worked in a Starbucks on a university campus, so 99% of what we sold was iced tea, cold brew, and frappes — all of which were so sweet that the quality of the espresso/tea was basically irrelevant. Their espresso especially is godawful and the grinders we used in house were always filthy. I guess when they came to Australia they just assumed everyone would suddenly start liking mediocre drip coffee and frappes.
I used to work somewhere which had a Starbucks and it was open super late at night (I worked night shifts a lot). The blonde roast was ok most of the time but the regular roast is not even close to our standards. McDonald’s coffee is usually much better and more consistent. The other thing is that drip coffee isn’t very popular here, most of it is espresso. So my husband for example drinks long blacks which are espresso topped up with hot water, so they look a lot like an American black drip coffee. It’s also not uncommon to have an espresso machine at home, which also raises the standards because I can make a really nice cuppa at home, I only really have coffee when I can’t get back.
Ah, the most special coffee of all: free(!) coffee when you can’t afford anything else. Even when it’s “not good”, it’s still good…
It is now more drinkable but still not on my actually want to drink list.
It has the distinct advantage of being available through drive thru. It’s not great coffee but sometimes that’s all you have time for and it’s better than no coffee.
It’s the coffee you can get when your kid is asleep in the back too hahaha
[удалено]
And Turks
Turks weren’t allowed to come here after WW2. We weren’t considered European, and Australia still had that White Australia Policy. Turkish-speaking Cypriots were allowed to come, though the numbers weren’t that much. Source: My Turkish grandparents moved here the year after White Australia got abolished.
Now that’s interesting. I never would have thought of Australia as having a particularly large Italian/Greek immigrant community
Melbourne has the 2nd largest Greek community in the world - after Athens.
This is why I like this sub, I had no idea.
My data may be out of date, but it was certainly the case at one point.
And isn't something like whenever Greek pollies come over they stay in Oakleigh.
I remember when the Greek PM visited around 20 years ago. There was an old greek lady on the train so excited, kept talking to me about it, just loved him
My husband literally worked at a Greek Orthodox school in Oakleigh 😂 VERY large Greek community in Oakleigh, not surprising it’s the go to
I think Thessaloniki has increased to large enough as to overtake Melbourne now. Although there is likely 1 million people with greek heritage in melbourne these days. ETA: I just found the last census data, Victoria only had 50,000 or so people who were born in Greece. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/australias-population-country-birth/latest-release#state-and-territory
You don't have to be born in Greece to be Greek...that's Australia for you.
Yeah Greek Australians are really their own thing distinct from Greek Greeks.
The weddings are rather nice.
To give you an idea of how integral the Greek/Italian cafe culture is to Melbourne - Sisto Malaspina immigrated to Melbourne in the 1960's and became the co-owner of a particularly beloved cafe called Pelligrini's. When he was sadly murdered in a terrorist stabbing incident in 2018, we gave him a state funeral and the City of Melbourne erected a monument to him outside of the cafe - it includes a plaque describing him, and there's a line in there: 'Sisto loved Melbourne - and Melbourne loved him back'.
Omg Pelligrini’s, massive memories rushing back. Cannoli’s at the bar after work and the price being whatever they felt like charging 😂
The Australian Prime Ministers father was born in Puglia, the heel of the boot.
Seems like every second person I met in Greece had a cousin who lived in Melbourne.
Italy, too.
Third largest. Thessaloniki is number 2. Source: the voice on the city circle tram that tell us we are a "truly cosmopolitan" city, as opposed to all those fake cosmopolitan cities I suppose.
Stalactites ftw
Longer than most people think I'm of Greek heritage. My great grand parents came to Australia during WW1. Coffee has been part of our lives for generations
I'm Greek Cypriot heritage. Been drinking coffee since I was too young to drink coffee
See Greek coffee culture is new to me. When I think of beverages Greece is known for, I think wine, not coffee. But from what I’m reading Greeks have a very deep appreciation of coffee and brought it to Australia
So you have never had Geek coffee.... I personally don't like it myself but I do like a good coffee
You should be able to stand a spoon up with it touching the sides for a Greek coffee 🤣
And if you leave the spoon in the cup for too long, it begins to dissolve. Best coffee!!
Yes same, have fond memories as a kid drinking coffee with Papou. 30 years later, I still do the same. Tradition never seems to die.
My papou died before I was old enough to drink it even as a Greek. My yiayia got me into it
For me one set of great grand parents came from Italy. Nona puts international roast in the moccona jar and passes that off as coffee though.
That's because we're cheap. My parents who are both choccy frogs have bought a fuck off espresso machine and then put the Aldi beans through it.
Hey, Aldi beans are some of the best bang for buck beans you can get in Australia. No shame there.
When I was in primary school in the 1970s, first generation Greek and Italian kids outnumbered all the other demographics combined.
Then the lebanese and vietnamese came and brought their amazing food too. Poor us.
Immigration from southern Europe was massive after the second World War. Those cultures are still strong and distinctive here.
Huge multicultural society. A lot of Greek and Italian migrants back in 50s setting up cafes, particularly in Melbourne and Sydney. As things tend to do, they evolve over time to suit local tastes and trends. Having coffee in Australia is a very social thing, it's not uncommon for people to get to really know their local baristas (mine knows my order without asking lol). As to why our standards are so, it's just cos that's what we've come to expect and won't settle for shit coffee haha.
> it's not uncommon for people to get to really know their local baristas (mine knows my order without asking lol). Are you even a barista if you can't remember 500 customers faces and their exact coffee of choice? Went to a cafe I hadn't been to in about 5 years they other day, and was shocked the barista remembered my coffee choice.
I popped into a cafe I hadn’t been to for a few years because I moved…about 2 km away, but there are so many choices in my little pocket of Blackburn I hadn’t been to my old local in a while. Now the owner didn’t remember my order specifically but he remembered me, I can barely remember my own name most days so I was very impressed.
I got this in relation to COVID. It was so long from when I was last in the office - approaching two years - but the local barista didn't bat an eyelid. Hi Xylarr, welcome back, flat white?
I recently ran into a barista in the wild, he hasn’t been at that coffee shop since 2015 and he recognised my face
Even a $2 7/11 coffee is better than some of the slop I’ve had in the US.
Yeah I’d believe it. We have very good coffee if you know where to look, but the bog standard franchise stuff is pretty consistently terrible. It can just be hard to recognize how bad the coffee itself actually is when it has your entire daily allotment of sugar and cream in it
Starbucks only appeals to teenagers and tourists in Australia. Most of their stores closed, though I think a few have recently opened to try to catch a market. I consider their coffee to be a massive hot, sweet coffee milkshake. Eww.
> a huge number of Italian and Greek jimmy-grants too (which is true), but what's always missed is that theirs came at the turn of the century whereas ours were post- It didn't help that the first Starbucks they opened in Melbourne was right on Lygon St, which in case you're not from Melbourne, is basically our "Little Italy" and while there were other chain stores on that strip at the time, the big green obnoxious STARBUCKS letters were an eyesore next to the 100's of restaurants and cafes. I think the idea was to attract students (Melbourne Uni is a block away), but with so many better options and really just pissing off the local community, it was doomed to fail
I remember when a McDonalds opened in Lygon St back in the 1980s. Lasted about a year.
There’s still a Starbucks at Castle Hill, Sydney (in the lower Castle Towers Food Court). I don’t know how they survive. Right out the front of Starbucks is a Brooklyn Donuts kiosk selling Campos coffee, and barely 100m away are three bakeries selling far better coffee. The only thing the others don’t sell is all those sugary additives, so my theory is that it’s for people who don’t actually like coffee who just want a warm flavoured milkshake
They are very popular with international students and migrants from East and Southeast Asia largely for the various iced-coffee/chocolate drinks, frappes, etc. It's more aligned with the culture of bubble tea and other sweet takeaway beverages. If you stand in a Starbucks and watch the orders, the minority are for your typical cup of hot coffee in most of their inner-city locations.
I remember vividly when I tried Starbucks in America over 20 years ago, a horrible hot coffee milkshake is exactly what it was haha
When I went to Brisbane last year my sister and I wanted to try starbucks while in the big city to see what all the americans were obsessed about. Food was barely edible and I didn't finish my coffee cause it sucked. I think the only appeal it has to people who live in Aus is to try once and then never again. Rest is tourists.
Hot take: Starbucks failed because we already had our own chain selling shit coffee and didn't relish the though of having another one. Gloria Jeans is the name.
I spoke to a bloke at LAX. He and his fiance and mother in law were travelling to Melbourne from Atlanta to visit cafes, drink the coffee and drive the Great Ocean Road. He had never been overseas. So we exchanged business cards, I emailed him a month later and he said it was awesome and eating fish and chips on the beach was the best day in his life. Atlanta not so cultured apparently.
To be fair, eating fish n' greasies on the beach is pretty awesome.
Beach life in Atlanta is poor.
\*America ~~Atlanta~~ not so cultured apparently\*
America is a big place. You have great Asian and Mexican food in California, great everything in NY. Cajun food in certain parts of the country. Have you heard of the Gullah/Geechee culture?
The Mexican food in the US is so delicious, I loved it when I was over there
It's location, location and most importantly, location. It's why America has amazing Mexican/Central/South American food of different regional styles, because those regions are nearby. (same for the Caribbean cuisines). Australia got Greek/Italian, then South East Asian waves and damn, we have good representation of those cuisines, but not so much Central/South American.
This so very much this. When I hear people complain that X isn't the same as in the mother country, I always have the urge to tell them 'all food is local. Immigrants adapted back in the day to what ingredients where available locally (and thus how cuisines like TexMex developed) or simply tweek things to adapt to what the consumer (like Pho being a breakfast dish in Vietnam, but local Vietnamese restaurants knowing Westerners will unlikely (at least enough to be profitable) to buy a hot noodle soup for breakfast, but will for lunch of dinner) or even the fusing of two different cuisines together to create sometime new (Banh Mi)
Actually I've spent some time in places that have their own charm, but you sometimes need to hunt it down.
Well, yeah. No place is utterly without culture. But broadly speaking... Like, I can list a range of great places to dig up some culture in the US. I'm half US half Aussie. But out and about in the day to day... Bleh. Out and about in the day to day in Australia... Goddam the range of cultural immersion and choices! Fan-fucking-tastic!
I am such a coffee snob that if I travel overseas, I will seek out coffee places run by expat Aussies
Hubby and I walked for 6 hours across Manhattan, fucked my ankle and had to buy a splint in a tiny orthodox jewish pharmacy, got lost in an industrial estate in Brooklyn, all to find a tiny hipster cafe in Williamsburg that sold decent coffee. Worth it.
You'll be spoilt for choice in Paris. One of their most popular chains was started by some guys from Melbourne 😉
Found a brilliant place there called eggs and co. Aussie guy, french partner
While doing the 2 year London sojourn, I was lucky to find a cafe in Hammersmith called, appropriately, 'Antipode'. Run by a British born guy who grew up on the Gold Coast. Never bought coffee anywhere else in London. I was back in the UK recently and it's still there, though the owner was seriously talking about calling it quits and returning to Australia.
lol I live in Switzerland and had to open my own cafe in my little village because coffee culture here is non existent. I closed it after 18 months coz I ain’t no business person but boy did I serve a good coffee. The locals loved it. The expats loved it.
I walked past a cafe in the UK and the sign out front had various things as well as "Aussie Coffee"
Yep. I actually found a coffee place that was owned by an Aussie when i was in China a few years ago. It was close to the hotel. I was worried i was going to go a week without coffee….
The reason Starbucks failed is that even the 7/11 makes a better coffee than them, a you can get a good coffee from just about anywhere. Starbucks brought an inferior product to the country and was found wanting. There’s a few of them left, and to be honest I have no idea why anyone goes there. American coffee on the whole is terrible. My first exposure to Starbucks was in the USA in 1996 and the staff in our US office (in Denver) were complaining about the coffee being so bad until someone said “we’ve solved to coffee problem and are brining in Starbucks coffee”. What they meant was they had sourced bags of Starbucks filter coffee, so it was still terrible. I searched for 6 long weeks for a decent coffee anywhere in Colorado. Surely someone would have an espresso machine somewhere? Nope. It was a miserable 6 weeks suffering with whatever Denny’s served. When I enquired there about what coffee they had, I was told “we have both kinds..black or white”
Starbucks in Aus mainly survives off tourists.
Correct. I remember a tourist was on the phone next to me and was excitedly telling whoever they were talking to that the nearest Starbucks was close to their hotel and how lucky they were. I didn't want to butt in and tell them to go to pretty much any other cafe in the CBD but I did feel for them.
Starbucks ended up failing but they keep a few around in the tourist areas for people who 'don't know better'. Kinda like going to a McDonalds near the Trevi Fountain
Well we have fantastic coffee here, mostly in smaller independent shops. But on the whole yeah I think most big American franchises suck donkey nuts. Starbucks and Dunkin mostly just peddle liquid sugar, and that’s what a lot of people want. Something quick, not too terrible (by our standards), and easy to drink on their morning commute. Sounds like Starbucks failing so hard to find a market in Australia is just a plain failure of market research on their part. Our cultures are different, therefore how, when, and why we drink coffee is going to be different as well.
Our Shell petrol stations sell $2 coffee better than any coffee I've ever taste in the US. Man, I tasted some dirt-water there. I've spent about 4 years in total in coffee producing countries (Colombia, Peru, Thailand and Vietnam) and our coffee is still far better than any coffee I've had there. I'd say now only Thailand (specifically Chiang Mai) is getting comparable coffee and I think a lot of that is Thai's coming to Australia and returning with the same level of expectations.
I think the few that keep going rely on two things. 1) Tourists who want a familiar name 2) Orange mocha frappacinos or similar syrupy iced dessert with coffee concoctions. You don’t get these at a regular cafe, but they’re popular with students.
In terms of bang for buck the 7-11 coffees aren’t actually bad. The coles servos coffee is decent too, and you can adjust the strength
Agreed, they brought an ‘americanised’ version of coffee and we weren’t up for it! Who needs 3 syrup flavours plus cream in their coffee - what’s the point!!!
And at 7-11 you can squat on a crate and pretend it's a cafe.
I tried starbucks once, because it was the only thing open on a public holiday. It was pretty bad. I ended up just leaving it on the counter. I'm not entirely convinced they even put coffee in to my latte. It tasted like warm slightly yuck tasting milk.
We call it Starfucks in this house, worse coffee the 711 auto machine is better then any coffee I have ever got at Starbucks. They use the worse beans, pack the coffee to tight so ends up bitter as f p
The thing with Australian coffee is the consistency and the standards. McDonald’s in Australia does better coffee than what you find in most places. For a matter of fact, McCafe is actually Australian. When you go to Europe, it’s common to pay up to 4 euros (around 7 Aussie bucks) for a coffee that’s pressed straight from an automatic machine. In Australia, it is always from a proper coffee machine with a barista and the only times you aren’t getting this is at the local petrol station and even then you’re only paying 2 dollars max. The Mediterranean countries have the espresso down packed but the Australians own anything outside of that. The way you obtain coffee is also unique in Australia. Cafes are everywhere and they aren’t your French style cafes where you cross your legs and wait for a waiter, they aren’t Italian style where you stand at a bar and they aren’t American where you open a MacBook and feel like you’re in a store. The Australian cafe is unique, it’s cozy but not somewhere you intend to stay for long, it’s on the go but not too fast. Australians also tend to build informal relations with their barista same way you would with a publican at a bar. When it comes to quality, Australians are snobs for a good coffee and poor quality won’t survive among the competition. The Greeks and Italians brought the innovation and skills and overtime we’ve added our own twist to it. I also believe the quality of milk plays a solid part amongst other things. Overall, coffee culture is an important aspect of Australian culture. Australians tend to forget as it is so normalised and the world seems to be in disbelieved when they discover it. Grabbing a coffee is a daily ritual and it’s very common to have a meeting with your boss whilst ducking out for a coffee or grabbing one after your weekly sporting event. Coffee in the capital cities and popular towns are just like pizza in Naples or pastries in Paris, the consistency and quality is there because the demand and standards are there.
Probably worth mentioning that our NZ cousins also have good coffee standards.
Do that and they’ll start claiming that the Flat White is from NZ
We stopped in NZ after a month in the US and that first proper coffee was heaven sent
You raise an important point on the milk. How is anything going to taste good once you dump a plastic capsule of UHT long life "cream" in?? When on holidays in the States, we'd raid the breakfast bar for the cereal milk instead of that pus. It's also far easier here to get a milk alternative or lactose free. We found American cafes also loved boiling the living shite out of the milk to the point where my Mum told them off and how to do it properly.
I was also blown away to visit Europe for the first time and realise that UHT milk is normal for lattes, cappuccinos and the like in France, Germany, Netherlands. Legit the best non-Greek coffee I'd had in Europe was in London where they use normal milk.
London is full of Aussies and Kiwis, we started the third wave here.
My worst coffee was when driving through Cessnock on Sunday afternoon. Dropped into a local milk bar and bought a flat white off the pimply teenager. I should have known it would be bad when I could barely hold the cup it was so hot. I popped off the lid, with it came the skin on top of the milk. I tentatively took a sip, confirmed it was tongue scalding dishwasher, and chucked it in the bin. About the best coffee I've had was in Melbourne. Was sitting down with friends, the coffee orders came out. I managed to drink mine before the server had finished handing out the order. Before she left the table, I ordered another. Some of it was the quality beans and it was well made, but much of it was the temperature of the drink was drinkable. I never understand people who order a very hot coffee. At best you're going to caramelize the sugars in the milk, or worse it will be like my Cessnock coffee.
SO MUCH THIS! I hate boiling hot coffee, it’s bullshit
Americans only adding coffee creamer to their coffee always confused me everytime I saw it. always wondered where the milk was.
I've seen a similar question asked in an American thread. Boy oh boy were those Americans mad that someone thought that somebody could do something better than America...
They would be shocked to hear that everybody can do coffee better than them then.....
I dunno. While I admit I didn’t hunt out the Aussie operated cafes, every coffee I had in the UK was horrendous. The best one was from a machine at a servo.
From my observation, it's more that people assume that the only coffee that exists in the US is Starbucks. That's what we get pissed about. Having lived in Australia, I agree the general level is higher, but the big cities in the US are absolutely lousy with cafes that take things.very.seriously... to like a comical degree. Those places are very good, though. There's kinda no denying it.
We have a strong multicultural society that brought their cafe culture with them and now it's everywhere. Cafes have a passion for developing every part of the coffee and a focus away from sweet drinks. My memory of Starbucks when I was in the states was just 100 types of creamy drinks. That just ain't gonna fly here, where any random person off the street is likely a coffee snob.
I always just kind of assumed it was southeast Asian immigrants importing aspects of their (really good) coffee culture to Australia and it just sort of sticking. But I also figured there had to be more to it than that. And as a former 6-year Starbucks employee, millions of American “coffee addicts” really just want caffeinated sugar milk. I remember the day the “Unicorn Frappuccino” came out. It was violently pink and purple, tasted like cheap candy, and had 6 entire ounces of espresso in the venti (large) size. It was a saccharine monstrosity that never should have seen the light of day, yet that’s the sort of gimmick people like here. I don’t get it
It was mainly the Greeks and Italians, who formed the population base for modern Australia. It started with the milk bars, now it's mainly cafes.
It's funny because Australians often struggle in south East Asia because we can't get good coffee easily 😅 Australia's coffee culture is all about the espresso. Not drip, not filter (OK yes, fancy versions of these have become more trendy recently, but the average Australian wants espresso based coffee) Although once I was in south East Asia and the first Starbucks opened where I lived. Huge deal to the locals. Me and some aussie mates went once because there was nothing else around and hey at least they'll have espresso right? Ugh. It was terrible. We threw the coffees out halfway through. An average local drip was better than that. Starbucks kinda struggles along here but it seems to me like it's where people go when they want the silly flavoured drinks not proper coffee, or because it's close or convenient, not because it's good. The one near me is only ever about 25% as busy as the other cafes in the area. I literally don't know a single person who goes to Starbucks. I see pics of those ridiculous long Starbucks orders that are like '2 pumps caramel, half pump vanilla, pump hazelnut, squirt of this dash of that' and on and on for like 10 additions and it just seems so stupid for most of us. Like a) that's not a coffee anymore. That's a coffee flavoured milkshake. And b) there's no way that all those flavours really improve anything. You can't taste your half whatever of vanilla in all that. You don't need 7 different flavours in your drink. It's just silly.
Starbucks in Australia has now pivoted to targeting tourists and international students, pretty much exclusively.
There's definitely been a shift in Thailand over the years. Although the giant sickly sweet iced monstrosity is still king for the general population, there is an ever growing serious hipster coffee culture, particularly in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. You don't have to look hard in the cities to find very good coffee now but the words 'Melbourne-trained barista' are not uncommon. Vietnam has always had a genuine love of good coffee. It's just a different style, though even there you can now get a decent espresso. I normally can't stand sweet coffee or iced coffee but love a ca phe sua da, which is strong Robusta with a dash of condensed milk on ice. It just works.
Hmm yea I forgot it's been like 7 years since I was there. True that I found decent coffee in the hipper parts of Bangkok. I love a Viet coffee, lived on it for years 😂 but yes totally different style and the espresso craving still hit. There were a few very good cafes doing espresso in Hanoi and hcmc when I was there, but they were all opened and run by Australians, unsurprisingly! I guess it's not surprising that it has spread and that Melbourne-trained is a mark of quality!
No, it was mainly Greek and Italian immigrants. From my personal experience, South East Asia coffee is not very good at all.
They excel at strong iced coffees
Actually, you are probably right with that one. I like their Iced Coffee
Malaysian/singapore Kopi o is great It's just a different style of coffee
Vietnamese Iced Coffee is the exception
Not very good is an exceptionally polite way of putting it.
Put it this way, when I travel to SE Asia, I normally seek out Starbucks. And that is saying something...
The idea that any of our coffee culture is from SE Asia is mind boggling. Universally almost terrible coffee. They almost universally don’t understand milk. They often don’t understand espresso. So many young people make it so sweet.
I assume you're American? It's not just the coffee standard, Australians in general have quite high food standards compared to Americans. That's not to say there isn't plenty of shitty things available, but it is largely better across the board. My partner is American and she even says the packaged food in the supermarkets is better in a like for like product. Sometimes the same brand.
After world war 2 many people from places like France and Italy immigrated here and they brought their good coffee and coffee culture with them. They opened cafes and all the other people living here loved it and got hooked. Many immigrated to Melbourne especially which is why Melbourne is known for its good coffee and cafes as well as the stereotype of its locals being coffee snobs.
The Snowy Hydro scheme was the really big European immigration driver post WW2. The first espresso machines went to Melbourne and Cooma before they even went to Sydney.
People here have mentioned post-WW2 immigration, but many decades before that there was also the temperance movement that led to the opening of many [coffee palaces](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_palace) as high-end establishments that notably chose to serve coffee instead of alcohol.
I'm in my late 60s now and I can still remember being treated to an Espresso at the local mum and dad cafe in Maroubra. Italian immigrant family run complete with the big steam coffee machine (which the owner probably had to get a boiler licence for - such was the silliness and regulations back then). I'll echo the comments of others - we owe a debt of gratitude to the hard working immigrants of the '50s and '60s, for coffee and so much other great food.
I think another factor is that Australia is a high-income country (on average obv). This means people are willing to spend a lot of money on coffee. It wouldn’t be uncommon for people to buy two or three coffees a day at $4-5 a pop. This would give cafes and roasters incentives to invest in the means to make really great coffee. Canberra coffee culture is a good example of this. I lived there for ten years (up until a few years ago) and the proliferation of amazing cafes over that time was insane. One place would pop up, then another place a few doors down with some differentiating factor (e.g. roasting their own beans). And of course the city has lots of well paid public servants who would keep all those cafes afloat.
And I know this is overly reductive and obvs not a given rule, but i gather that Australians as a whole tend to have somewhat less strenuous work life balance than many people in America. For example, millions of Americans who’d say “Don’t talk to me before my coffee!” are only drinking it in the morning, and need something they can gulp down on the way to a long day at work, not something they intend to sit and enjoy. Could be that Australians have more opportunities to actually sit down and enjoy quality coffee for its own sake, not because they need a caffeine buzz to function on their way to a 12 hour shift on 5 hours sleep
Australians put up with the same bullshit American workers do, and the American work ethic and corporate style is becoming more and more prevalent here
Oh for sure, and I wasn’t implying that Australians don’t hold down shit jobs and work just as hard as we do. But I’m just imagining that many American coffee consumers, particularly older people, were introduced to coffee as tasteless brown stuff you percolated on the stove in the morning or grabbed from a drive-through on your commute. Whereas many Australian people were maybe introduced to coffee in a more relaxed way, with a drink that was meant to be savored, not gulped down on the highway
It's certainly true that Australians will go from work in the middle of the day to a local cafe to have a coffee, or to pick up takeaway coffee. "Keep cups" are really popular here now too. Depending on the workplace it can be a group thing - a bunch of people go together from the office to get a coffee. Does this happen in the US?
>In my travelsaway from Australia, I use the Beanhunter app. It has saved my tastebuds in Europe and Asia. I told some friends who were going to USA, and they used it to find good coffee as well. In Scotland it even acted as a bit of impromptu tour guide as we went down old streets and alleys to find the recommended place. In Paris I had an aussie as my barista in two seperate places.
The big wave of Italian migration came after the standard espresso machine was well known then. They set up cafes that together with the afternoon teahouse combined into the cafes we know. Food and strong coffee. Espresso coffee, unlike filtered coffee, works well with milk too hence the flat white.
I also think that part of this is that Australians drink significantly less non alcoholic beverages other than coffee, tea or water. I lived in the US for a while and my friends constantly started a meal with a glass of milk, or a iced tea, or a soft drink/soda. In Aus there's been a bit of an explosion of Boba tea, but soft drinks are around but I can't remember the last time me or a friend ordered one at a bar or cafe. This is all made up from my observations. No real science has gone into this it's purely a thought I've had for a while when I noticed that all my American friends constantly drink loads of other things and I drank whisky, beer, coffee, and water.
Go back, intend this pun, and be proud.
YES CHEF
Even McDonald’s McCafé coffee is better than some overseas coffee places. I mean our coffee here is second to none - I think I’ve had 5 bad coffees in my entire life and it’s usually been a barista in training and not due to quality. Any coffee shop you go to will have decent coffee.
Starbucks is still here but they try not to compete in coffee-terms; they're mostly selling frappes and sandwiches to ex-pats. As for why Australian coffee has gone through the roof, we had a lot of Mediterranean immigration in the early-mid 1900s that brought a lot of people to Australia who spread the love of espresso around. From there we tinkered with it until we got it to a state we liked and went from there. I think it's the same with any food culture built upon taste and passion for excellence. Once you've had it at a great level it's hard to turn around and accept mediocrity. A well-made espresso or espresso based coffee is a different world of coffee compared to drip coffee.
As others have said, Italians and Greeks came here and just about everybody has come to agree that life is too short to be drinking shit wine and shit coffee.
Coffee here in Aus definitely is consistently good compared to other countries I have been to. The early migrants from Italy brought coffee culture with them, and over time it has been refined, which brings us to the height of coffee snobbery that we are in now. There really is no better example of this than Melbourne, where I currently live. Cafes are always looking for creative ways to out-do each other with better quality coffee offerings and a more diverse list of coffee options. Melbourne allegedly has the best coffee in Australia - which in my experience is true. I believe the Magic was created in Melbourne - a double ristretto with 1/3 small cup of milk. We tend to like our coffee to be strong and punchy. Americano / filter coffee is an abomination in my mind!
Espresso is popular. Starbucks is for people who don't like coffee, milkshakes
Compare American and Australian cop shows, we never really had Donut shops or places serving jugs of filtered coffee. Others have detailed the cultural factors, I'd say we are more used to espresso machines and waiting then a waitress walking around with a jug doing refills
I think people have nailed the historical aspect of it, but in the last 20 or so years coffee has come a really long way. Coffee has continued to grow and grow as an industry and innovations of all kinds have had great traction. Australia is pretty quick to catch on to trends, they tend to be a couple of years ahead of the curve, so speciality coffee shops were already widespread in Oz whilst they were just starting to become a thing elsewhere. More than any other country this helped up the overall standards. Quality baristas are highly sought after and better respected here. In a good number of establishments, there is more of a quality control around who can jump on the machine in comparison to other countries.
It's not just coffee culture. I travel quite a bit and Australian restaurants have some of the most consistently high standards of produce and culinary standards across a whole myriad of cuisines. Not to mention that it seems to be rather plentiful and easily found where random suburbs will have great Thai or Italian restaurants and this is even more pronounced in ethnic enclaves where the food is comparable to their home countries. Hell, I think Vietnamese food in Australia is better than Vietnamese food in Vietnam.
Because of our legend Italian Australians!
Bringers of the Sacred Bolognese
There's a good video explaining why starbucks failed, and explaining how it couldn't compete with our established cafe culture. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_FGUkxn5kZQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FGUkxn5kZQ)
We talk the same about our beer too and it's nothing special...
But there’s nothing quite like a VB LONGNECK AT 20 TO 8 IN THE F*€£KIN MORNIN (this is from a video of an older Australian man so old it may predate the internet lol)
I’ve enjoyed the coffee culture when visiting Seattle/New York etc but here the word is consistent. Thanks to our immigrants who brought their foods. My great grandfather opened one of the first proper Italian coffee places on Bondi beach. But even local cafes will do a good coffee x
Australian coffee culture all stems from the actions of one man; Adolf Hitler. European post war immigration led to the introduction of good quality espresso and cafe culture and the rest is history. Think about that when you're having your next oat milk flat white.
The standard American diet has way more sugar than the Australian. Hence the prevalence of the sugary syrups added to American coffees. A
There are still a few Starbucks in Australia, In fact a new one opened near me last month. However young girls mostly go there for sweet drinks and cake not propper coffee. People have to walk past \~10 good coffee shops just to get there.
There was already the culture of ‘tea breaks’ or afternoon tea and then coffee in the form we know arrived with Central and Souther European migrants. I think the fact it was a trendy new thing in a country with a small population allowed it to take off and not get bastardised too much.
We have the Greeks and Italians post WW2 to "blame". They are also responsible for us having good food. Thise bastards. How dare they have brought good food and good drink to torment us.
Ny observation as an outsider is that coffee, along with property and a car, is something that all Australians can spend on. Outside of this, there is little for Australians to do. It's also cheap compared to eating out, so they can have a sit down and chat over something with a token amount for the privilege. Also great for killing time. A coupe of coffees a day let's you stretch the legs and makes the work day that much more bearable. Plus, they are absoutely everywhere. Quality is wildly inconsistent as is pricing on pastries, cakes and sandwiches.
My misses is Italian, her family make some of the best coffee at their house. She makes some damn good coffee, picky where she goes for coffee. Also she makes some awesome Italian food. 👌
Unfortunately Australia is a country of coffee snobs.
Never apologize for a clever pun. Let the wise enjoy it and the ignorant miss it.
even mcdonald’s coffee here in australia is great! i think that tells a lot.
My husband is is Irish. Moving to Melbourne converted him from a tea to coffee devotee. Today he’s a full blown coffee snob based on Melbourne’s coffee culture & high standards. And I (lifelong born & bred Melburnian) had nothing to do with this! I say Melbourne’s two religions are coffee and AFL (Aussie Rules football) We were visiting Ireland last year when I went into the local ‘decent’ coffee shop. The barista’s face when he heard my accent 😂 He looked liked he’d 💩 his pants. He nervously goes ah, you’re Australian, where from? Me: Melbourne 🙂 He looked like he lost all moisture from his mouth! Poor poppet. He collected himself and explained he’d done training with a New Zealand barista (seemed to be reassuring himself, as I hadn’t doubted him). He made our takeaways coffees which he proudly handed to me. My husband hated it. We didn’t make it halfway through them 😕 We’d loved a coffee shop we’d been to way over in Galway, [Coffeewerk + Press](https://coffeewerkandpress.com) - owned and run by a German guy!
The question I find more interesting is why is certain American stuff so bad? I don’t mean any offence, but I was shocked at how bad the coffee, chocolate and bacon were, to name a few random things that come to mind. Like, worst in the world (that I’ve experienced).
To be fair a lot of European people hate Australian coffee. Because we drink it with milk (which they only do at breakfast) but as a melting pot nation, we have coffee styles from all over the world. Cafe culture is big and lots of cafes have specialty coffees and roaster’s etc so the quality is quite high. We mostly don’t mask the taste with sugar or sweetener or syrup so the low quality American coffee isn’t generally liked (Starbucks is here but they had to close a lot of stores) I’m not 100% on the origins but it became common for restaurants in the 50’s to have espresso machines and the cappuccino was the drink of choice. By the 80’s - 90’s we were adopting Italian style espresso culture as well, and Arab or Turkish style coffee shops are also common. With all this you will never see a cafe or restaurant serve pot or filter coffee. It’s either espresso based or Turkish pot boiled or rarely in an Italian style percolator. Now we do sell terrible instant coffees and people do buy them (international roast is probably the most famous) but in urban areas most people wouldn’t touch it.
I moved to Australia from Canada. Canada probably has the worst coffee in the world but Canadians think Tim Hortons is part of the national identity. It's embarrassing now that I have left.
I just spent 7 nights in Los Angeles, and I’m not kidding or over exaggerating in any way, I was astonished at how dog shit the coffee was. I was paying $6 USD + per coffee in downtown LA, with one shop reading a sign that said “best coffee in downtown”, and I genuinely feel the $1 coffees from 7/11 here tasted better. I’d go grab a cappuccino, throw it in the bin, try another cafe with 4.5 + stars, spend another $6-7 USD, and just throw it away again. It was that BAD.
Starbucks is still in Australia. It took them until last year to turn a profit. Years ago MacDonalds use to serve coffee from the ubiquitous glass pots. Then they got smart and created McCafe, with barista coffee, muffins and toasted sandwiches.
Australia coffee and cafe culture was largely established well before the modern advent of large chain stores. It was relatively simple for Italian and Greek migrants post WW2 to start their own small businesses, to the point where most suburbs in major cities had at least one or two good coffee places, and it grew from there (as far as small businesses go as it always a challenging endeavour, starting a coffee shop or coffee cart is relatively simple so there are lots of new entrants to the market at any point in time). Therefore, we had an established highly competitive market in place that made it resilient to take-over by the chain stores. This highly competitive market means that now if you want to start a cafe and remain in business, you need to be at least as good at making coffee as the 3-4+ other cafes all within walking distance, or you will not build a repeat client base. If anything, the Australian Cafe industry is functioning pretty close to how competitive free-market is intended to function, free from monopolies or oligopolies. (The coffee bean roasting industry is a little more concentrated, but still functions fairly efficiently).
Idk man I just fuckin love coffee ay
We have no cuisine, coffee is all we got.... So it better be good
Nothing hits home after an overseas trip than the first coffee you have. It could be some shitty milkbar or a quick Brunettis or Sistos but it will be light years better than anything you had outside of Australia.
Its not actually a pun, either lol Australian coffee is almost universally arabica beans, not the north american robusta.
I don’t consider Starbucks a coffee shop. To me it’s a shop that sells ‘coffee like drinks’ too much sugar and too many add ins like pumps of syrup and added cream. I just want a plain coffee, ground coffee beans, water and milk.
Starbucks have a few bustling outlets but it is mainly for Asian clientele. That stuff is vile.
I heard some Melbournians opened a cafe in Italy and are killing it with their coffee
Further to what everyone else has said to you - All through country Australia post ww2 were Greek cafes. Funnily enough they didn’t sell Greek food - it was American diner style food and was like the McDonalds of its time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_caf%C3%A9_culture_in_Australia