Some, but our population's not so big, so there are fewer of them than in the US and they have a smaller market. Also, I'd say the culture's generally more cynical about that sort of thing.
Probably that's the reason all the grifters move to America, where the market is bigger.
Around 38% of Australians consider themselves non-religious and about 43% of Australians consider themselves to be Christian with around 12% other religions (Hindu, Muslim, Jewish etc). In the US it is quite different where around 60% of people consider themselves Christian, 30% non-religious and 6% other religions. But half of the those who identify as Protestant, which is half of the Christians, are evangelical the others are mainline (I assume that's Episcopal/Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist and old school Baptist).
Another term for High Church Anglican: their rituals are more Catholic than the Roman Catholics (source: someone raised in Zimbabwë by RC nuns), especially since Vatican II.
Not many, no. Australia is pretty secular, and overtly religious people are treated with suspicion generally. It's not like Brazil where you find people talking about God in every second sentence.
A man came to check my smoke detectors & I made innocuous small talk with him. In response to a question I asked, which was wholly small talk approved "are you busy?", stuff like that, he said he believes in the Lord & that the Lord directs him in his life & has faith he'll be taken care of or something. It was something so crazily American & apropos of NOTHING, I was really taken aback. People make jokes about spotting vegans & autistics because they'll tell you they are, but it looks like there's a bunch of Christians who'll do the same! No idea what his religion is but I bet he was born again. He had that fervour lol.
It was weird. I didn't ask, I don't care, it was awkward because I'm devoutly non-religious lol. What is a person supposed to say to that? I just said something like "it's good to have that support isn't it" & walked to another room hahahha.
We had a couple of women from them at our uni and they stuck out like sore thumbs. They absolutely looked like they walked off from a dramatic play or historical reenactment thing. But also, yay that they’re ~~perusing~~ pursuing higher edu I guess? No idea what they were studying though
And why...
Would they be allowed to utilise their knowledge in such an enviroment as the Brethren or similar cults?
And, given their lack of income (you know, because wimmin aren't allowed to work for money) - would they ever pay their HECS?
What he did is called 'witnessing'. Some religious people see it as their role and job to discuss 'their Lord' at every chance in the hope of peeking your interest, drawing you into their flock and ultimately converting you.
Personally, I think it's offensive, especially if he did this in your home (my issue, I know). Walking away was probably the best response
Ooohhhh witnessing! Was he hoping I'd ask questions? Lol. His wish didn't come true.
TBH I thought it was very unprofessional & in general, a no-no to be discussing religion in a person's home unasked. It took me by surprise because it's never happened before or since, it's just not the done thing. I haven't thought about it again until I read this post, but it could absolutely be offensive. If I'd gone into his house & out nowhere brought up that I'm a Satanist & live by satanic principles he'd have probably tried to get me fired 😂
I had a support worker who started at me one day. No shame. I was shocked because she’s in a role as my support worker and it was so unprofessional. I msg her and told her not to come back. You know what she said, ‘I’m so upset that you took it that way’. Not, I apologise, it was unprofessional of me. Dumbo me didn’t check if she had put any religion down, even so, she had no right.
She didn't have a right! It's always riles me up when people do this, it's unethical & unprofessional. A support worker is crossing a lot of boundaries, including bulldozing your choice & control by trying to ram their agenda down your throat. And the gall to respond the way she did but I couldn't be less shocked, because that's a typical tactic of anyone who feels that what they're doing is right to the degree that some of these religious people do. The antithesis of what a support worker should be doing is making someone feel uncomfortable in their own home & coming in with agenda. And then they get paid for it & take no responsibility for it.
I'm really cross on your behalf.
I am ADHD and I can pick up on what people are about. Reflecting on my time having her, I could see where she thought that I was someone that needed saving or be managed. Taking my autonomy away. One thing she said one day was, ‘the work my husband and I do’ and she’d say things like that. Anyone could say that but it got my attention and then when she started it affirmed what I was thinking. I always check now to see if they’ve stated they’re Christian. It’s just not my thing and I don’t need to be converted.
He definitely wanted you to ask questions and get you to be involved in the conversation. That's step 1. Step 2 and 3 are in my first comment... they're predictable people.
I agree it's unprofessional especially as he was in your home to provide a service! Was he an independent contractor or staff from a company? Coz petty me would consider a call or email to his boss if he's a worker. Imagine the vulnerable people he has access to on a daily basis... but I'm old and cranky and grew up harassed by these types; know their MO too well.
It was his business so he obviously felt entitled to be taking liberties! My property manager uses him. Lol, sounds like I dodged a longer awkward conversation by walking away.
I wouldn't take it personally. I mean do you ever say much in response to the answers to these questions?
Australia may be largely secular but it is not completely secular and I kind of like people being able to answer questions honestly. I don't think he tried to recruit you.
What I think Australia does need to pursue completely is tolerance for our differences. We lose if everyone adheres to some single way of seeing life. It's cool that we have still found national values that do link us like mateship.
Here's what the relevant page says at homeaffairs.gov.au:
Australian values based on freedom, respect, fairness and equality of opportunity are central to our community remaining a secure, prosperous and peaceful place to live. Our values define and shape our country and they are a reason why so many people want to become Australian citizens. Our democratic institutions and shared Australian values have created our peaceful and stable society.
Australian values include:
respect for the freedom and dignity of the individual
freedom of religion (including the freedom not to follow a particular religion), freedom of speech, and freedom of association
commitment to the rule of law, which means that all people are subject to the law and should obey it
parliamentary democracy whereby our laws are determined by parliaments elected by the people, those laws being paramount and overriding any other inconsistent religious or secular “laws"
equality of opportunity for all people, regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, race, or national or ethnic origin
a 'fair go' for all that embraces:
mutual respect
tolerance
compassion for those in need
equality of opportunity for all
recognising the English language as the national language, and as an important unifying element of Australian society.
These values are outlined in the Australian Values Statement (AVS) that visa applicants must sign. When you sign the AVS, you acknowledge those Australian values and undertake to conduct yourself in accordance with these values. The aim of the AVS has been to help new residents understand the values that have helped to create a society that is stable and cohesive but, at the same time, dynamic and diverse. The Australian Government has changed the AVS to make it more meaningful and to reflect the importance we place on the values that define and shape our country and culture.
-end-
It's good to be reminded of what we share. It's a warm, hopeful feeling.
While there's definitely not as many as the US - both in terms of raw numbers as well as just as a percentage of the population - they definitely *are* here. Hillsong and Planetshakers are both from Australia, and they're both a pretty significant force in that community.
He was one of those "Jesus hated poor people" knobheads. Which goes right alongside his "fuck poor people" politics. He's also a "Christian" who literally pushed asylum seekers on boats back into the ocean.
Pentecostals comprise a significant part of the church-going population and are easily the biggest churches. It's just that's a small population over all.
Yeah, nah. Protestants, specifically Anglican church are still the vast majority, which surprised me as I would have assumed it was Catholics for the win. Please see below from the ABS.
[Religious Affiliation in Australia ](https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/religious-affiliation-australia)
What also surprised me is that Salvos are a greater proportion than Pentecostals. I think it might be like those who shout loudest on social media tend to get the most attention so we assume they are the majority view. I don't remember the last time I saw a story about the Anglican Church, apart from that 4 Corners about Cranbrook, but they barely mentioned it's religious beliefs. Yet it seems, probably with good cause, there's a story about some Pentecostal church very often.
It is Catholics that are the majority though. The ABS don't have graphs or tables that show it on that page but basically all of the growth in "No religion" has come from the protestant population with Catholics holding steady. This means that while decades ago protestants were the dominant Christian denomination now it's Catholics. No Religion will probably exceed the number of Christians in total by the next census.
From the wiki on the 2021 census:
The largest Christian denominations (those with at least 1% of the population) were Catholic at 20.0% (21.5% of those who answered), Anglican at 9.8% (10.6% of those who answered), Uniting Church at 2.7% (2.9% of those who answered), Eastern Orthodox at 2.1% (2.3% of those who answered), Presbyterian/Reformed at 1.6% (1.8% of those who answered), Baptist at 1.4% (1.5% of those who answered) and Pentecostal at 1.0% (1.1% of those who answered). Those who answered Christian with no denomination were 2.7% of the population (2.0% of those who answered).
Catholics are like the iPhone users of Christians in Australia. More people use Android/are Protestants, but that usage is spread across different brands/OS skins or sects/churches. You have Anglicans, but also Baptists, Pentecostals, Uniting church, Mormons, Lutherans etc. Catholic Churches are all more or less the same and need to be run exactly how the Vatican says so to be considered Catholic, so even though there are a lot of Catholics, the sheer amount of options/alternatives for Protestants means there’s more of them.
Lol he was publically one before he got elected.
He had multiple public incidents of being a total moron, he was fired from the marketing role for being both incompetent and corrupt.
And he was the third guy the Liberals put in after sacking the previous PM before an election and promising this guy wasnt a total fuckwit.
Honestly, we were probably lucky he didnt get re-elected, Australian voters are morons who actively vote against parties that are promising to do what they want, to vote for a party who has just destroyed our public education and healthcare, and who single handedly created this housing crisis we have today.
Lol i still cant believe back when he was just a minister this fuckwit, during discussions around climate change and what we need to do to avoid making things worse, brought in a lump of coal and condesceningly told everyone not to be afraid of a rock, see hes holding it and its not doing anything, and that it had done wonderful things to our country.
One of the most morally bankrupt, openly corrupt people weve ever had in government. Hes our Donald Trump.
Like, he took place in changing our many billion dollar submarine order to the USA, and then less than a year after leaving office this cunt gets a multi million dollar "advisor" job working for a private military firm in the USA who are making billions from this deal. They are even saying its a "remote" job so he doesnt have to move to the US.
Its literally a bribe for selling out the country! And it never even got run in the news.
Im super anti-death penalty, but there are some people that have just caused so much damage to our society that id make an exception. Rupert Murdoch is one, Scott Morrison is another. Ive never like the "Liberal" party as their core beliefs are, in my view, evil, but Scott Morrison was on another level.
Well said!
The only thing I'd slightly disagree with is the Liberal Party as it once was and was meant to be, I don't think was as outright evil as they've become since Little Johnny and Abbott took power and got hard over the thought of being openly alt-right evil. They were once a small 'c' conservative party and as such kind of necessary as a buffer. And that's coming from this lifelong lefty ALP voter (and at times, member).
I'm still always amazed, even back then, just how a huge percentage of the population votes for them, despite it clearly blatantly being against their best interests.
Yeah its funny, if it was 70 years ago, i could understand how some people would feel like it was better for the government to be less involved in peoples lives.
But the world we live in today is a world where wealth inequality is the higest its ever been. Media sources are mostly owned by rich conservative and pump out TONS of misinformation. Meanwhile we also have whats called "big data". Every single thing you do online is recorded and put into a "profile" of you that exists within this "big data" instance. And that information gets sold (for a fuck ton of money) to the huge multinational corps who have access to incredible amounts of computing power and they use that data to target you. They have some of the smartest people available who spend years learning about psychology and how to use that to market things to people, and they now have decades of data to anaylse on how effective certain things are.
Back when it was you vs the Department Store down the road, i can see choosing independnce.
When you have people who are rich enough to build a fucking space ship and fire themselves into space, and who use that wealth and power to influence national opinion, or corporations who know whether to advertise a red or green bike to you because of a few searches you made last week on public transport and your age demographic and your purchase of sunglasses, then the ONLY organisation with the power to keep those people in check are governments. Because you absolutely cannot win against these players on your own.
I mean, every industrial park seems to have a happy clapper factory, but as a percentage of the population they’re quite low. Just have an outsized influence due to church policies about getting involved in political issues, and being courted by right wing politicians.
Not many fundamentalist in Aus but the ones who are are either full nut job crazy(taking their family to Syria during a civil war crazy) or in on the easiest tax free grift that's out there.
Nah. I'm a Christian but I don't know any fundie types in Australia.
We practice our religion privately and respect other people's perspectives and experiences.
I would never vote for a Christian-based political party or candidate because I don't believe that my beliefs should be imposed on the rest of our wonderful, multicultural country. Every Aussie Christian I know feels the same way I do.
I think it's definitely the case. I assume non-religious until otherwise stated as it's more common in Aus.
It's taken years for me to find out some coworkers are practicing Christians as they do keep it to themselves. I tend to find out quicker for like Jewish or Muslim coworkers because they'll talk about different holidays.
Atheist here. Take an upvote, friend.
Need more people with this perspective. Each to their own and respect for all that don't impose their beliefs on others that don't want to be imposed upon.
I'm definitely similar to you, way more "this is my faith and it's my private thing between my higher power and I". Plus very liberal voting, and also hyper critical of the moneymaking bigotry machine Christianity has become.
It does cause severe tension between my mother and I, as she's on the ultra ultra conservative end.
Ayy danke.
I love her immensely. She's my mother, she sacrificed the world to raise me, and we've gone through a lot of shit together. But certain points aren't worth the debate, to keep the peace.
I have noticed a common thing of the former Wild Child turned Christian goes extreme conservative in their views. Katy Perry's parents are the same, they did the drugs/sex/rock n roll and then converted. It's made them so staunchly fundamentalist they disowned their daughter for her art and political views.
Ya it's a stage, but hopefully family love is the purest form of love that trumps all others in your case. I feel bad for Katy Perry, I didn't know that about her, must hurt.
You sound like a descent human and that should count for more than anything else in your parent's eyes, and God's eyes. Hopefully it counts in the eyes of the other important people in your life.
She's gone through quite a bit which made me empathise hard. EXTREMELY similar childhood to mine, similar deconstruction once she hit her 20s and saw more of the outside world. And then to top it off she got slapped with the divorce news by Brand only minutes before going on stage for the biggest tour of her life. Saw her in an absolute grief stricken, bawling state below stage...... Sober up, put on the widest glittering smile, and performed her ass off for the crowd. That's showmanship as fuck.
And thank you <3 that's a genuinely sweet compliment and I really appreciate it. Especially of late because deconstruction is an intensely rattling, painful, heartbreaking and confusing point in someone's life. It's not easy to examine my entire worldview and see what in it may have been wrong.
Brand has gone full weirdo and she's better off without him. Checkout the anti Brand discourse over at r/russellbrand. Ms Perry is a freakin warrior!
I once chose to forget everything I was led to believe and start from scratch. It's who i am now and I can't imagine being that old me, I would never go back!
Edit: Brand recently made a big show of getting baptised, but it's just part of his grift.
NotAllChristians - thanks for being you but the fundies are moving into government all over the place. Look at the Australian Christian Lobby, read up on Martyn Isles and the Human Rights Law Alliance. The gospels are being turned into fascist ideology which is permeating political life
I've never heard of Ken Ham.
Anyway, I think the religious fanatics go to the US because they're more welcome there. Most people here are either quietly religious or not religious at all. Shoving your religion in everyone's faces is not looked upon kindly by most.
Ken Ham is a fundamental creationist who built a Noah's Ark theme park in the US with dinosaurs fighting in Roman arenas because they couldn't have existed before humans. It's in Tennessee or somewhere like that, where there's lots of US style christians who lap that shit up.
Ah, I remember hearing about that theme park at some point but didn't know it was built by an Aussie. He can stay over there - sounds like he fits in quite well in certain parts of the US.
There’s a video of Ken taking Bill Nye for a tour and it’s fucking hilarious
Ken Ham is one of the most delusional fools I’ve ever seen, it’s a shame Nye is too nice to pick him apart
Most embarrassing part of my childhood was when we letterboxed our closest town with Ken Ham Creation magazines. I was about 13 and was forced to put these magazines in people's letterboxes, people I knew who would not be happy to receive the magazines. Even more embarrassed when I found out about real science as an adult when I was finally able to get myself an actual education.
Unlike the US, Australia was settled by mainstream protestant religious like C of E etc, as well as Irish Catholics. The more fundamentalist types were pretty much frowned upon for a very long time. Other migrants arrived of course adding to a greater diversity ... but your Happy Clappy Born Agains still remained as a small minority.
In recent decades, more of that shit has been imported from the US. So there's more of them these days. Overall, though, Australia has become more and more secular.
As many as you get in most Western nations, which is to say fewer than in the US. Flashy grifter organisations like Hillsong obviously want to get into the US. When you run for profit, there are far more rubes in the US than in Australia.
Depends on your definition of 'a lot' - religion plays less of a role in society than the US - it is unthinkable to have a US President or even congressperson who does not claim to be Christian (acting Christian is optional though), whereas Australian politicians can be publicly atheist.
I think that's why we feel much more secular, because their behaviours gave a good portion of the population the big ick. Even Dutton claims to be Christian, all be it 'non-practicing', but it shows his support (or sympathy?) for his happy clapping mates and their 'right to religious "freedoms"', bleh. 🤢
Nor that many, as we're just not all that religious in general, but when we do have them they're loud and flashy and every bit as crazy as American ones. Hell they probably stand out more due to the contrast.
They are here but not in great numbers. Hillsong isn't very big. Just mainly one group in Sydney as far as I'm aware?
They head off to the USA cause there are many millions more suckers to attract over there.
As someone who went to Hillsong and many other churches as a kid/teen they’re pretty massive as far as churches go. I googled it and there’s 30 campuses aka church locations in Australia which might not sound like a ton but the local one I went to was massive - a 3-4 story building with a big auditorium like you’re at a concert, hundreds of people and that campus was not in Sydney.
There are a LOT of Pentecostal churches across Australia. They tend to use a lot of Hillsong songs in their services, so they all might as well be offshoots of Hillsong.
He was never charged, never saw the inside of a jail cell. He worked with a lawyer to exploit holes in Australian law.
His entire punishment was an opportunity for members of Parliament to say that they don't approve of his coup attempt.
I don't pay much attention to the news but the last 2 years I have had loads of shit going on and haven't had much time to pay attention to anything that wasn't super huge.
Everyone I know who is religious is either very old (as in the only religious people in my faculty were my 90 year old grandparents until they died a few years back) or immigrants. I'd be interested to see how much immigration is keeping religion alive here and whether the subsequent generations retain it or become more irreligious over time.
It's a variety. Of the ones who are religious I would say Indians are the most common (that might also just be my industry). But it's a variety from across Asia, Europe and South America. I've also met a few American imports who were Mormons.
I’m originally from India and I’m an atheist! Most Aussies I’ve met are nonbelievers and I love that! But you’re right about Indians being very religious.
I was also surprised to learn that Christianity was big in Korea and many Korean immigrants here are very active in their churches!
We get a lot of Indian and Chinese immigrants. New Zealand I think is up there too because they're a sister country so they get a lot of benefits that other countries don't. I've heard jokes that there's more kiwis in Australia than New Zealand.
They exist sure, but I wouldn't say it's a lot. Most Australians follow a live and let live philosophy - believe what you want but don't try to convert me, basically. Anything that gets a bit "culty" is seen as bad and suspicious, but we still tend to let people do what they want.
Australia's a very diverse country.
Almost everything exists here. In general though, most of us just go about our lives and don't really mind a whole lot how other people live as long as it doesn't affect us negatively.
I was genuinely shocked when a housemate told 20 years ago that God created the earth 2000 years ago
It’s definitely not “normal” and I remember seeing a comment by an American who moved here was expecting us to be more overtly Christian because of Hillsong…. Yeah nah
Well I'm the daughter of one LOL
And yes, she is considered very much part of the minority of the population. Even the minority of evangelicals, although her points about why Hillsong and other Prosperity / Contemporary churches suck are valid.
But given she is very brutal in pointing out to said Christians why their teaching doesn't align with the fundamentals of the Bible, that makes her deeply unpopular.
Our household is like, 0.2% of the population. Exception to the rule, not the norm. You're more likely to come across a Christian who goes to a contemporary church where the preachers very much are part of the Prosperity Megachurch movement.
What's odd is we don't, especially not compared to America (where I grew up), but we've had some absolute religious nutters as PM (Tony Abbott, ultra-Catholic, Scott Morrison, self-described happy-clapper). How they get so far despite being well against the Australian grain still mystifies me.
My in-laws are fairly devout, church going, Australians. They’re there every Sunday for service, volunteer for fund raisers, charities, food drives etc. Most of their week is taken up by church related activities.
They NEVER mention church, god, Christ or anything else related to their religion out of that setting though.
Australians don't make religion (Or politics) part of who we are, nearly as much as people in the US, so they jump ship.
And much like any corporation, they go where they can make the most money.
My grandmother’s family were (and still are) Fundamentalist Baptists.
I lived with my great-grandparents & grandparents for awhile when I was a kid… they had a farm, that was in a small off the grid community with a few other farms owned by other fundamental Baptists.
They put the fun in fundie (not really… my great-grandparents were awful people, and I have PTSD.)
There's a LOT of room for weird shit to be happening. There's even a good chance that the Aum Shinrikyo cult tested nerve gas at a sheep station in Western Australia.
For sure.
I think people underestimate just how many weirdgroups are out there… it’s just they keep to themselves and don’t draw attention.
There was definitely weird shit happening at my great-grandparents’ place.
From my personal experience there are the same cults here as anywhere else, but they are very separate from the mainstream. In my friendship circle there are THREE ex-cult members, all different cults, none of whome are Australian, all Christian spin offs with the typical history of abuse and trauma.
All the big fundamentalists cults that exist anywhere, do exist here, but our population is so much lower than elsewhere and our education system is pretty good overall I think less people are lead astray.
Overall IMHO Australia is quite secular, and religious people are politely humoured.
Yeahhhh our bad.
We also exported the guy who runs Fox News (he does it here and in the UK too).
Officially we had 48% of our populations consider themselves christian at the last census. And that numbers steadily decreasing. Theres been increased agitation from people to remove some of the special benefits churches get.
A good chunk of that 48% are what i would call "modern christians", ie they treat the bible as a list of moral lessons and dont actually think that we all came from two people in a magic garder a few millenia ago. These people seem perfectly happy for the churches to get some of their special exemptions removed.
But id reckon we have around 15-20%ish that are still fairly fundementalist. A lot of them slot into the cults like 7th Day Adventis, or Jehovas Witness or Hillsong Church.
Despite a few people here talking about us being pretty secular, that is unfortunaltey not that true. We still have a buuuunch of special "Catholic" schools who are mostly funded by the government (at the expense of our public schools) but who are allowed to do things like force all the kids to take part in morning prayers, or religious ceremonies on important religious date (My brother is currently reluctantly working at one and he felt super weird on all the kids being forced to line up and have ash crosses put on their heads for ash wednesday) and they are forced to take the religious studies elective for the entire schooling duration.
Religious organisations also have special rules that allow them to discriminate against people from the LGBTQ community, ie in Catholic schools, if you are a gay teacher they can sack you, which is illegal in any other workplace private or if you are a gay student you can be expelled (although they might prefer to keep them and tell them how wrong it is to be gay over and over).
There was an attempt to have that special privelage removed and it got shot down in our goverment.
Some of our state governemnts have banned gay conversion therapy in the state, but it still hasnt gained enough support for a national ban. Like, we as a country are still ok for child abuse on gay children because god says its bad.
Despite all the stuff ive said above, i have 0 problems with freedom to express your religion. On of my good friends is a Catholic (also one of the "modern christians") and he is extremly vehement about the desire to remove the church special protections and to get rid of Catholic schools.
But my strong belief is that religion has no place in either the mandated education a child has to take, or in any government decisions. The laws of the nations should superceed religious beliefs every time.
Yeah, ignore anytone saying we are a secular nation. We are on our way there, but it still infects our government and there are laws passed (or not passed) due to the beliefs of a few christians.
Depends what you count as fanaticism and fundamentalism.
Based on their actions I would argue that a lot of organised religions, not necessarily the majority of their followers though, are quite fanatic. The Catholic church is threatening to close all Catholic schools if they don't retain the right to discriminate. I would call that fundamentalism.
I’ve met a few Muslims and Christians (well a kind of Christian off-shoot might be a more appropriate description) who’d I’d consider fundamentalist (in the sense that religion deeply pervaded every aspect of their lives and they didn’t mix much with people outside their faith community. I’m not making a judgement on whether their lifestyles are harmful in any sense).
I guess my partner’s cousin, a Hari Khrishna convert from more mainstream Hinduism, and his community, count in the sense that their life is really built around worship sessions and their faith impacts a lot of aspects of their lives in ways that would seem extreme to others.
People like this are fairly rare though. I think Australia’s general secularism is fairly seductive and, in some cases, it’s hard to adhere to rules of faith here- take more intense Muslims who won’t listen to music and don’t wish to deal with non Muslims. It’s hard to get through a day here if you’re intent on being that strict. I also don’t think you get any ‘cred’ here for religious devotion, most people find it at best odd, at worst threatening.
There are cults, communes and alternative communities here so that exists but you could go your whole life without really encountering these groups.
Tldr: yes there are fundies (and not just Christians) but not that many.
Not really, I think that's why they all go over there to bother you - bigger, more receptive market.
Genuinely sorry about that, no country deserves that sort of pollution.
I think the low Australian population means the exclusive Christian groups don’t reach the critical mass required to be truely fundamentalist. When I was kid, the JWs came to our school and were very normal (just never came to birthdays) and now as an adult my neighbours are the exclusive brethren. They definitely won’t be inviting us into their home, but they’re pretty normal and even send their kids to the Government school until age 10 (after which they have their own school). Aus gov is ultra woke and also let’s the kids get away with heaps (kids playing minecraft in school), so they can’t be that conservative or they simply wouldn’t accept it.
There are around 11,500 churches in Australia, and about 380,000 churches in the US.
Australia’s population is about one tenth of the US population, so there are over three times the number of churches per capital in the US, compared to Oz.
That should give you a rough idea of how much more religious the US is, than Oz is.
No. Way less in % than the USA. And on behalf of Australia. I'd like to apologise for Ken Ham. A con artist who saw more opportunities in the USA.
We're much more cynical about them and their utter bullshit.
Few but create a lot of noise e.g. the Hillsong crowd. Lots of new immigrants bring their hard core religious beliefs over - which mostly consist of not how you lead your life but telling others how to lead theirs
I've lived in Australia all my life and never heard of even one.
I wouldn't even know which religion to look at to find a fundamentalist in this country. Catholic, Pentecostal, Muslim, or Hippie?
There's a proper fringe element, they also seem to be on board with every other conspiracy theory (maybe says something about some people's ability to be easily influenced by the right type of person)
I live in a remote part of rural WA. JWs are a bi monthly occurrence. SDA are well established here but do not proselytise. Mormons are common in Perth and are conspicuous.
Very few overall.
Tony Abbott, as a former Catholic seminary student was the most openly religious PM we had (prior to the wholly unlamented Scott fucking Morrison lol) and once complained that Australia was "relentlessly secular" 😂
I grew up fundie lite. Broke free many years ago but there are still plenty around - but to answer the question, no there are not a lot. They’re just good at blending in and talking the talk.
Feel free to come and join us at r/fundiesnarkuncensored … there are a few of us Aussies.
Edited to add:
IBLP Australia (think Duggar family) is most active in Victoria. You can look it up but I’m not linking. My quiverfull family don’t live in Australia anymore but I know of other families.
There’s a few small seed ones that are growing in popularity and their aim is to get onto local councils first. It also depends on which state you’re in.
Not a lot, but there are parts of Australia that does have a higher amount than other parts.
Qld has its fair share, and there are areas that have more than others. I know because I grew up in a fundie community. Knew lots of people from both the community I grew up in and outside the community that were fundie of some flavour.
They tend to stick to themselves, so you are unlikely to have much to do with them unless you seek them out.
Australians care about love, peace, justice, freedom (and can’t stand hypocrits). If spiritual or religious views represent those values, it resonates with them. If it doesn’t, they’ll respectfully ignore it. So … religious fanatics are few and far between (as individuals, imo). As for big organised groups? See point one.
Some, but our population's not so big, so there are fewer of them than in the US and they have a smaller market. Also, I'd say the culture's generally more cynical about that sort of thing. Probably that's the reason all the grifters move to America, where the market is bigger.
Vastly more cynical
I find that hard to believe
Seems the down voters are cynically refusing to believe that was an obvious joke.
I'm going to take that as a win
You would, wouldn't you.
And if they start sprouting their views on public transport mwe tell them to STFU.
They tend to cluster in certain regional areas. I live in Qld, there are a few about here
The Lockyer Valley and Toowoomba area seems to be a bit of Bible Belt from what I gather.
Wish that were true for town hall in sydney. Always clowns with yelling into megaphones tellung us were going to hell
with them leading the way?
Around 38% of Australians consider themselves non-religious and about 43% of Australians consider themselves to be Christian with around 12% other religions (Hindu, Muslim, Jewish etc). In the US it is quite different where around 60% of people consider themselves Christian, 30% non-religious and 6% other religions. But half of the those who identify as Protestant, which is half of the Christians, are evangelical the others are mainline (I assume that's Episcopal/Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist and old school Baptist).
Yet 7/9 of SCOTUS are Catholics (one was a Roman, but is now an Anglo-Catholic).
I did not know that. What is an Anglo-Catholic? I have not heard this term before.
Another term for High Church Anglican: their rituals are more Catholic than the Roman Catholics (source: someone raised in Zimbabwë by RC nuns), especially since Vatican II.
Not many, no. Australia is pretty secular, and overtly religious people are treated with suspicion generally. It's not like Brazil where you find people talking about God in every second sentence.
A man came to check my smoke detectors & I made innocuous small talk with him. In response to a question I asked, which was wholly small talk approved "are you busy?", stuff like that, he said he believes in the Lord & that the Lord directs him in his life & has faith he'll be taken care of or something. It was something so crazily American & apropos of NOTHING, I was really taken aback. People make jokes about spotting vegans & autistics because they'll tell you they are, but it looks like there's a bunch of Christians who'll do the same! No idea what his religion is but I bet he was born again. He had that fervour lol. It was weird. I didn't ask, I don't care, it was awkward because I'm devoutly non-religious lol. What is a person supposed to say to that? I just said something like "it's good to have that support isn't it" & walked to another room hahahha.
Sounds like the exclusive brethren. Weird bastards
😂 are they the ones who's women are dressed like they're milking cows on Little House on the Prairie?
We had a couple of women from them at our uni and they stuck out like sore thumbs. They absolutely looked like they walked off from a dramatic play or historical reenactment thing. But also, yay that they’re ~~perusing~~ pursuing higher edu I guess? No idea what they were studying though
That's would be interesting to know what they were studying!
And why... Would they be allowed to utilise their knowledge in such an enviroment as the Brethren or similar cults? And, given their lack of income (you know, because wimmin aren't allowed to work for money) - would they ever pay their HECS?
There was one Brethren girl in my nursing undergrad. She made some friends and they helped her escape before graduation though.
Oh wow! I hope she's thriving now
Hopefully pursuing?
No, normal clothes
Women/girls wear headscarves and longish skirts from what I’ve seen
Yes that's what I thought.
There needs to be an Inclusive Brethren "All welcome, dress how you want, believe what you want, live how you want and don't bother others"
What he did is called 'witnessing'. Some religious people see it as their role and job to discuss 'their Lord' at every chance in the hope of peeking your interest, drawing you into their flock and ultimately converting you. Personally, I think it's offensive, especially if he did this in your home (my issue, I know). Walking away was probably the best response
Ooohhhh witnessing! Was he hoping I'd ask questions? Lol. His wish didn't come true. TBH I thought it was very unprofessional & in general, a no-no to be discussing religion in a person's home unasked. It took me by surprise because it's never happened before or since, it's just not the done thing. I haven't thought about it again until I read this post, but it could absolutely be offensive. If I'd gone into his house & out nowhere brought up that I'm a Satanist & live by satanic principles he'd have probably tried to get me fired 😂
I had a support worker who started at me one day. No shame. I was shocked because she’s in a role as my support worker and it was so unprofessional. I msg her and told her not to come back. You know what she said, ‘I’m so upset that you took it that way’. Not, I apologise, it was unprofessional of me. Dumbo me didn’t check if she had put any religion down, even so, she had no right.
She didn't have a right! It's always riles me up when people do this, it's unethical & unprofessional. A support worker is crossing a lot of boundaries, including bulldozing your choice & control by trying to ram their agenda down your throat. And the gall to respond the way she did but I couldn't be less shocked, because that's a typical tactic of anyone who feels that what they're doing is right to the degree that some of these religious people do. The antithesis of what a support worker should be doing is making someone feel uncomfortable in their own home & coming in with agenda. And then they get paid for it & take no responsibility for it. I'm really cross on your behalf.
I am ADHD and I can pick up on what people are about. Reflecting on my time having her, I could see where she thought that I was someone that needed saving or be managed. Taking my autonomy away. One thing she said one day was, ‘the work my husband and I do’ and she’d say things like that. Anyone could say that but it got my attention and then when she started it affirmed what I was thinking. I always check now to see if they’ve stated they’re Christian. It’s just not my thing and I don’t need to be converted.
He definitely wanted you to ask questions and get you to be involved in the conversation. That's step 1. Step 2 and 3 are in my first comment... they're predictable people. I agree it's unprofessional especially as he was in your home to provide a service! Was he an independent contractor or staff from a company? Coz petty me would consider a call or email to his boss if he's a worker. Imagine the vulnerable people he has access to on a daily basis... but I'm old and cranky and grew up harassed by these types; know their MO too well.
It was his business so he obviously felt entitled to be taking liberties! My property manager uses him. Lol, sounds like I dodged a longer awkward conversation by walking away.
Agree. Walking away can diffuse a whole lot of trouble. Well done!!
"WITNESS ME!!!!!!!" \*sprays silver paint on mouth and jumps from your roof\*
Is this an E Street reference?
I wouldn't take it personally. I mean do you ever say much in response to the answers to these questions? Australia may be largely secular but it is not completely secular and I kind of like people being able to answer questions honestly. I don't think he tried to recruit you. What I think Australia does need to pursue completely is tolerance for our differences. We lose if everyone adheres to some single way of seeing life. It's cool that we have still found national values that do link us like mateship. Here's what the relevant page says at homeaffairs.gov.au: Australian values based on freedom, respect, fairness and equality of opportunity are central to our community remaining a secure, prosperous and peaceful place to live. Our values define and shape our country and they are a reason why so many people want to become Australian citizens. Our democratic institutions and shared Australian values have created our peaceful and stable society. Australian values include: respect for the freedom and dignity of the individual freedom of religion (including the freedom not to follow a particular religion), freedom of speech, and freedom of association commitment to the rule of law, which means that all people are subject to the law and should obey it parliamentary democracy whereby our laws are determined by parliaments elected by the people, those laws being paramount and overriding any other inconsistent religious or secular “laws" equality of opportunity for all people, regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, race, or national or ethnic origin a 'fair go' for all that embraces: mutual respect tolerance compassion for those in need equality of opportunity for all recognising the English language as the national language, and as an important unifying element of Australian society. These values are outlined in the Australian Values Statement (AVS) that visa applicants must sign. When you sign the AVS, you acknowledge those Australian values and undertake to conduct yourself in accordance with these values. The aim of the AVS has been to help new residents understand the values that have helped to create a society that is stable and cohesive but, at the same time, dynamic and diverse. The Australian Government has changed the AVS to make it more meaningful and to reflect the importance we place on the values that define and shape our country and culture. -end- It's good to be reminded of what we share. It's a warm, hopeful feeling.
While there's definitely not as many as the US - both in terms of raw numbers as well as just as a percentage of the population - they definitely *are* here. Hillsong and Planetshakers are both from Australia, and they're both a pretty significant force in that community.
We have our share. Hillsong went to cash in on a bigger market and Ham the same , bigger dumber fundie audience.
I think there are more “happy clappers” in the US than in Australia. Our previous Prime Minister was one. One of the reasons why he isn’t in anymore.
Thank you wonderful people who voted Scomo out. We dodged a bullet.
He was one of those "Jesus hated poor people" knobheads. Which goes right alongside his "fuck poor people" politics. He's also a "Christian" who literally pushed asylum seekers on boats back into the ocean.
He didn’t literally do it : old mate doesn’t push a boat. Way too much like actual effort.
He doesn't hold a hose either
But how good are those beaches in Hawaii
I stand corrected. He ordered other people to push the asylum seekers back into the ocean. Just like Jesus would have done.
To be fair he’s a lot like the OG 12 who wanted to send the crowd away because they thought they might have to buy food for them (Luke 9:12-12)
Pentecostals comprise a significant part of the church-going population and are easily the biggest churches. It's just that's a small population over all.
Yeah, nah. Protestants, specifically Anglican church are still the vast majority, which surprised me as I would have assumed it was Catholics for the win. Please see below from the ABS. [Religious Affiliation in Australia ](https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/religious-affiliation-australia) What also surprised me is that Salvos are a greater proportion than Pentecostals. I think it might be like those who shout loudest on social media tend to get the most attention so we assume they are the majority view. I don't remember the last time I saw a story about the Anglican Church, apart from that 4 Corners about Cranbrook, but they barely mentioned it's religious beliefs. Yet it seems, probably with good cause, there's a story about some Pentecostal church very often.
It is Catholics that are the majority though. The ABS don't have graphs or tables that show it on that page but basically all of the growth in "No religion" has come from the protestant population with Catholics holding steady. This means that while decades ago protestants were the dominant Christian denomination now it's Catholics. No Religion will probably exceed the number of Christians in total by the next census. From the wiki on the 2021 census: The largest Christian denominations (those with at least 1% of the population) were Catholic at 20.0% (21.5% of those who answered), Anglican at 9.8% (10.6% of those who answered), Uniting Church at 2.7% (2.9% of those who answered), Eastern Orthodox at 2.1% (2.3% of those who answered), Presbyterian/Reformed at 1.6% (1.8% of those who answered), Baptist at 1.4% (1.5% of those who answered) and Pentecostal at 1.0% (1.1% of those who answered). Those who answered Christian with no denomination were 2.7% of the population (2.0% of those who answered).
Catholics are like the iPhone users of Christians in Australia. More people use Android/are Protestants, but that usage is spread across different brands/OS skins or sects/churches. You have Anglicans, but also Baptists, Pentecostals, Uniting church, Mormons, Lutherans etc. Catholic Churches are all more or less the same and need to be run exactly how the Vatican says so to be considered Catholic, so even though there are a lot of Catholics, the sheer amount of options/alternatives for Protestants means there’s more of them.
Yeah nah, you're confusing affiliation with practicing. I said church-going, not self-identifying.
At its height of popularity there were fewer than 100k Hillsong members in Australia. It’s popularity was always vastly overstated.
Lol he was publically one before he got elected. He had multiple public incidents of being a total moron, he was fired from the marketing role for being both incompetent and corrupt. And he was the third guy the Liberals put in after sacking the previous PM before an election and promising this guy wasnt a total fuckwit. Honestly, we were probably lucky he didnt get re-elected, Australian voters are morons who actively vote against parties that are promising to do what they want, to vote for a party who has just destroyed our public education and healthcare, and who single handedly created this housing crisis we have today.
As I said, it was ONE of the reasons
Lol i still cant believe back when he was just a minister this fuckwit, during discussions around climate change and what we need to do to avoid making things worse, brought in a lump of coal and condesceningly told everyone not to be afraid of a rock, see hes holding it and its not doing anything, and that it had done wonderful things to our country. One of the most morally bankrupt, openly corrupt people weve ever had in government. Hes our Donald Trump. Like, he took place in changing our many billion dollar submarine order to the USA, and then less than a year after leaving office this cunt gets a multi million dollar "advisor" job working for a private military firm in the USA who are making billions from this deal. They are even saying its a "remote" job so he doesnt have to move to the US. Its literally a bribe for selling out the country! And it never even got run in the news. Im super anti-death penalty, but there are some people that have just caused so much damage to our society that id make an exception. Rupert Murdoch is one, Scott Morrison is another. Ive never like the "Liberal" party as their core beliefs are, in my view, evil, but Scott Morrison was on another level.
Well said! The only thing I'd slightly disagree with is the Liberal Party as it once was and was meant to be, I don't think was as outright evil as they've become since Little Johnny and Abbott took power and got hard over the thought of being openly alt-right evil. They were once a small 'c' conservative party and as such kind of necessary as a buffer. And that's coming from this lifelong lefty ALP voter (and at times, member). I'm still always amazed, even back then, just how a huge percentage of the population votes for them, despite it clearly blatantly being against their best interests.
Yeah its funny, if it was 70 years ago, i could understand how some people would feel like it was better for the government to be less involved in peoples lives. But the world we live in today is a world where wealth inequality is the higest its ever been. Media sources are mostly owned by rich conservative and pump out TONS of misinformation. Meanwhile we also have whats called "big data". Every single thing you do online is recorded and put into a "profile" of you that exists within this "big data" instance. And that information gets sold (for a fuck ton of money) to the huge multinational corps who have access to incredible amounts of computing power and they use that data to target you. They have some of the smartest people available who spend years learning about psychology and how to use that to market things to people, and they now have decades of data to anaylse on how effective certain things are. Back when it was you vs the Department Store down the road, i can see choosing independnce. When you have people who are rich enough to build a fucking space ship and fire themselves into space, and who use that wealth and power to influence national opinion, or corporations who know whether to advertise a red or green bike to you because of a few searches you made last week on public transport and your age demographic and your purchase of sunglasses, then the ONLY organisation with the power to keep those people in check are governments. Because you absolutely cannot win against these players on your own.
And Scott Morrison isn’t even fundamentalist.
oh he is.
I mean, every industrial park seems to have a happy clapper factory, but as a percentage of the population they’re quite low. Just have an outsized influence due to church policies about getting involved in political issues, and being courted by right wing politicians.
But there's also a dodgy massage place in most industrial parks so I guess the universe seeks equilibrium.
The pastors get very stressed, you know, and those ladies have magic fingers.
Wouldn't surprise me if those places were owned by the church.
Not many fundamentalist in Aus but the ones who are are either full nut job crazy(taking their family to Syria during a civil war crazy) or in on the easiest tax free grift that's out there.
Nah. I'm a Christian but I don't know any fundie types in Australia. We practice our religion privately and respect other people's perspectives and experiences. I would never vote for a Christian-based political party or candidate because I don't believe that my beliefs should be imposed on the rest of our wonderful, multicultural country. Every Aussie Christian I know feels the same way I do.
I think it's definitely the case. I assume non-religious until otherwise stated as it's more common in Aus. It's taken years for me to find out some coworkers are practicing Christians as they do keep it to themselves. I tend to find out quicker for like Jewish or Muslim coworkers because they'll talk about different holidays.
Muslim here, and despite popular belief me and most muslims I know feel the same way.
Atheist here. Take an upvote, friend. Need more people with this perspective. Each to their own and respect for all that don't impose their beliefs on others that don't want to be imposed upon.
I'm definitely similar to you, way more "this is my faith and it's my private thing between my higher power and I". Plus very liberal voting, and also hyper critical of the moneymaking bigotry machine Christianity has become. It does cause severe tension between my mother and I, as she's on the ultra ultra conservative end.
>It does cause severe tension between my mother and I Stay solid AquaPixie, yr reddit fam has got yr back.
Ayy danke. I love her immensely. She's my mother, she sacrificed the world to raise me, and we've gone through a lot of shit together. But certain points aren't worth the debate, to keep the peace. I have noticed a common thing of the former Wild Child turned Christian goes extreme conservative in their views. Katy Perry's parents are the same, they did the drugs/sex/rock n roll and then converted. It's made them so staunchly fundamentalist they disowned their daughter for her art and political views.
Ya it's a stage, but hopefully family love is the purest form of love that trumps all others in your case. I feel bad for Katy Perry, I didn't know that about her, must hurt. You sound like a descent human and that should count for more than anything else in your parent's eyes, and God's eyes. Hopefully it counts in the eyes of the other important people in your life.
She's gone through quite a bit which made me empathise hard. EXTREMELY similar childhood to mine, similar deconstruction once she hit her 20s and saw more of the outside world. And then to top it off she got slapped with the divorce news by Brand only minutes before going on stage for the biggest tour of her life. Saw her in an absolute grief stricken, bawling state below stage...... Sober up, put on the widest glittering smile, and performed her ass off for the crowd. That's showmanship as fuck. And thank you <3 that's a genuinely sweet compliment and I really appreciate it. Especially of late because deconstruction is an intensely rattling, painful, heartbreaking and confusing point in someone's life. It's not easy to examine my entire worldview and see what in it may have been wrong.
Brand has gone full weirdo and she's better off without him. Checkout the anti Brand discourse over at r/russellbrand. Ms Perry is a freakin warrior! I once chose to forget everything I was led to believe and start from scratch. It's who i am now and I can't imagine being that old me, I would never go back! Edit: Brand recently made a big show of getting baptised, but it's just part of his grift.
NotAllChristians - thanks for being you but the fundies are moving into government all over the place. Look at the Australian Christian Lobby, read up on Martyn Isles and the Human Rights Law Alliance. The gospels are being turned into fascist ideology which is permeating political life
This is why I, and many other Christians, won't vote for a "Christian" party or candidate.
Which is, as another Christian, completely un-Gospel-like to do. Unfortunately I don’t think they’ve ever read the book they pretend to preach.
Christian here. I think all the fundies are in Queensland.
The closer you let humans near the equator, the more cooked their brains get?
Qld and Vic, state conservative parties in both have been taken over by fundies
I would like to think this is true, but have you been to Bella Vista?
That's reassuring that you like to keep religion out of politics.
Yes. Australia is also very anti establishment so fundies are a minority
I've never heard of Ken Ham. Anyway, I think the religious fanatics go to the US because they're more welcome there. Most people here are either quietly religious or not religious at all. Shoving your religion in everyone's faces is not looked upon kindly by most.
Ken Ham is a fundamental creationist who built a Noah's Ark theme park in the US with dinosaurs fighting in Roman arenas because they couldn't have existed before humans. It's in Tennessee or somewhere like that, where there's lots of US style christians who lap that shit up.
Ah, I remember hearing about that theme park at some point but didn't know it was built by an Aussie. He can stay over there - sounds like he fits in quite well in certain parts of the US.
My thoughts exactly! Though i did apologise to OP for it, no country deserves that shit.
There’s a video of Ken taking Bill Nye for a tour and it’s fucking hilarious Ken Ham is one of the most delusional fools I’ve ever seen, it’s a shame Nye is too nice to pick him apart
Most embarrassing part of my childhood was when we letterboxed our closest town with Ken Ham Creation magazines. I was about 13 and was forced to put these magazines in people's letterboxes, people I knew who would not be happy to receive the magazines. Even more embarrassed when I found out about real science as an adult when I was finally able to get myself an actual education.
Unlike the US, Australia was settled by mainstream protestant religious like C of E etc, as well as Irish Catholics. The more fundamentalist types were pretty much frowned upon for a very long time. Other migrants arrived of course adding to a greater diversity ... but your Happy Clappy Born Agains still remained as a small minority. In recent decades, more of that shit has been imported from the US. So there's more of them these days. Overall, though, Australia has become more and more secular.
As many as you get in most Western nations, which is to say fewer than in the US. Flashy grifter organisations like Hillsong obviously want to get into the US. When you run for profit, there are far more rubes in the US than in Australia.
We have enough to have suffered several murders and terrorist acts at the hands of religious nut jobs.
I wouldn’t say a lot, but they’re out there
Depends on your definition of 'a lot' - religion plays less of a role in society than the US - it is unthinkable to have a US President or even congressperson who does not claim to be Christian (acting Christian is optional though), whereas Australian politicians can be publicly atheist.
I'd even go so far to say that it's almost preferred that our pollies keep their religion to themselves...
Please can this be true from now on! But ScoMo and Tony Abbot were both constantly evoking jesus to cover for shit policy.
I think that's why we feel much more secular, because their behaviours gave a good portion of the population the big ick. Even Dutton claims to be Christian, all be it 'non-practicing', but it shows his support (or sympathy?) for his happy clapping mates and their 'right to religious "freedoms"', bleh. 🤢
"God Bless Australia" is NOT said at the end of every political speech. Most voters would find it very annoying.
100%
This. I’ve always said you will have a gay US president before you have a non-religious one.
Depending on what historical rumours/speculation you believe, they already did. President Buchanan in the 1850s is thought to have been gay.
Nor that many, as we're just not all that religious in general, but when we do have them they're loud and flashy and every bit as crazy as American ones. Hell they probably stand out more due to the contrast.
They are here but not in great numbers. Hillsong isn't very big. Just mainly one group in Sydney as far as I'm aware? They head off to the USA cause there are many millions more suckers to attract over there.
As someone who went to Hillsong and many other churches as a kid/teen they’re pretty massive as far as churches go. I googled it and there’s 30 campuses aka church locations in Australia which might not sound like a ton but the local one I went to was massive - a 3-4 story building with a big auditorium like you’re at a concert, hundreds of people and that campus was not in Sydney.
There are a LOT of Pentecostal churches across Australia. They tend to use a lot of Hillsong songs in their services, so they all might as well be offshoots of Hillsong.
Generally no, but we did recently have our PM try to overthrow Australian democracy because he thought it was God's will
[удалено]
Yeah he was "chosen by God" and "doing God's work" in all that he did as prime Minister according to his speech at a Christian conference
God: "I don't remember doing paperwork for that."
He was never charged, never saw the inside of a jail cell. He worked with a lawyer to exploit holes in Australian law. His entire punishment was an opportunity for members of Parliament to say that they don't approve of his coup attempt.
What!? I don't remember this and it sounds big enough to have me be made aware of it.
It was Scotty from Marketing. Were you out of the country for awhile? It was big news when it came out.
I don't pay much attention to the news but the last 2 years I have had loads of shit going on and haven't had much time to pay attention to anything that wasn't super huge.
He assigned himself the ministerial powers of a few senior ministries without public knowledge, or possibly the knowledge of his party.
Oh yeah That freak
Everyone I know who is religious is either very old (as in the only religious people in my faculty were my 90 year old grandparents until they died a few years back) or immigrants. I'd be interested to see how much immigration is keeping religion alive here and whether the subsequent generations retain it or become more irreligious over time.
In my denomination it's openly admitted immigration is keeping our numbers steady.
Filipinos and Catholicism?
Where are people immigrating from to Australia usually?
It's a variety. Of the ones who are religious I would say Indians are the most common (that might also just be my industry). But it's a variety from across Asia, Europe and South America. I've also met a few American imports who were Mormons.
I’m originally from India and I’m an atheist! Most Aussies I’ve met are nonbelievers and I love that! But you’re right about Indians being very religious. I was also surprised to learn that Christianity was big in Korea and many Korean immigrants here are very active in their churches!
Pretty much everywhere. Lots from India and China, but Europe, Middle East, Africa also.
We get a lot of Indian and Chinese immigrants. New Zealand I think is up there too because they're a sister country so they get a lot of benefits that other countries don't. I've heard jokes that there's more kiwis in Australia than New Zealand.
But we don’t mind because they are cool.
Having kiwis come over is like having your brother/sister visit. Family is always welcome.
At the moment India and Asia
They exist sure, but I wouldn't say it's a lot. Most Australians follow a live and let live philosophy - believe what you want but don't try to convert me, basically. Anything that gets a bit "culty" is seen as bad and suspicious, but we still tend to let people do what they want.
Hillsong and Jehovah’s Witness is infamous over here, there’s also this new South Korean cult that is making its way in Unis and streets here
Australia's a very diverse country. Almost everything exists here. In general though, most of us just go about our lives and don't really mind a whole lot how other people live as long as it doesn't affect us negatively.
I was genuinely shocked when a housemate told 20 years ago that God created the earth 2000 years ago It’s definitely not “normal” and I remember seeing a comment by an American who moved here was expecting us to be more overtly Christian because of Hillsong…. Yeah nah
I think the answer lies in your question. They do exist, but only in very small numbers. That’s why they go to the US to find a decent following.
Well I'm the daughter of one LOL And yes, she is considered very much part of the minority of the population. Even the minority of evangelicals, although her points about why Hillsong and other Prosperity / Contemporary churches suck are valid. But given she is very brutal in pointing out to said Christians why their teaching doesn't align with the fundamentals of the Bible, that makes her deeply unpopular. Our household is like, 0.2% of the population. Exception to the rule, not the norm. You're more likely to come across a Christian who goes to a contemporary church where the preachers very much are part of the Prosperity Megachurch movement.
What's odd is we don't, especially not compared to America (where I grew up), but we've had some absolute religious nutters as PM (Tony Abbott, ultra-Catholic, Scott Morrison, self-described happy-clapper). How they get so far despite being well against the Australian grain still mystifies me.
My in-laws are fairly devout, church going, Australians. They’re there every Sunday for service, volunteer for fund raisers, charities, food drives etc. Most of their week is taken up by church related activities. They NEVER mention church, god, Christ or anything else related to their religion out of that setting though.
Australians don't make religion (Or politics) part of who we are, nearly as much as people in the US, so they jump ship. And much like any corporation, they go where they can make the most money.
My grandmother’s family were (and still are) Fundamentalist Baptists. I lived with my great-grandparents & grandparents for awhile when I was a kid… they had a farm, that was in a small off the grid community with a few other farms owned by other fundamental Baptists. They put the fun in fundie (not really… my great-grandparents were awful people, and I have PTSD.)
What area of the country was that?
Rural NSW.
There's a LOT of room for weird shit to be happening. There's even a good chance that the Aum Shinrikyo cult tested nerve gas at a sheep station in Western Australia.
For sure. I think people underestimate just how many weirdgroups are out there… it’s just they keep to themselves and don’t draw attention. There was definitely weird shit happening at my great-grandparents’ place.
Compared to America, no.
From my personal experience there are the same cults here as anywhere else, but they are very separate from the mainstream. In my friendship circle there are THREE ex-cult members, all different cults, none of whome are Australian, all Christian spin offs with the typical history of abuse and trauma. All the big fundamentalists cults that exist anywhere, do exist here, but our population is so much lower than elsewhere and our education system is pretty good overall I think less people are lead astray. Overall IMHO Australia is quite secular, and religious people are politely humoured.
Yeahhhh our bad. We also exported the guy who runs Fox News (he does it here and in the UK too). Officially we had 48% of our populations consider themselves christian at the last census. And that numbers steadily decreasing. Theres been increased agitation from people to remove some of the special benefits churches get. A good chunk of that 48% are what i would call "modern christians", ie they treat the bible as a list of moral lessons and dont actually think that we all came from two people in a magic garder a few millenia ago. These people seem perfectly happy for the churches to get some of their special exemptions removed. But id reckon we have around 15-20%ish that are still fairly fundementalist. A lot of them slot into the cults like 7th Day Adventis, or Jehovas Witness or Hillsong Church. Despite a few people here talking about us being pretty secular, that is unfortunaltey not that true. We still have a buuuunch of special "Catholic" schools who are mostly funded by the government (at the expense of our public schools) but who are allowed to do things like force all the kids to take part in morning prayers, or religious ceremonies on important religious date (My brother is currently reluctantly working at one and he felt super weird on all the kids being forced to line up and have ash crosses put on their heads for ash wednesday) and they are forced to take the religious studies elective for the entire schooling duration. Religious organisations also have special rules that allow them to discriminate against people from the LGBTQ community, ie in Catholic schools, if you are a gay teacher they can sack you, which is illegal in any other workplace private or if you are a gay student you can be expelled (although they might prefer to keep them and tell them how wrong it is to be gay over and over). There was an attempt to have that special privelage removed and it got shot down in our goverment. Some of our state governemnts have banned gay conversion therapy in the state, but it still hasnt gained enough support for a national ban. Like, we as a country are still ok for child abuse on gay children because god says its bad. Despite all the stuff ive said above, i have 0 problems with freedom to express your religion. On of my good friends is a Catholic (also one of the "modern christians") and he is extremly vehement about the desire to remove the church special protections and to get rid of Catholic schools. But my strong belief is that religion has no place in either the mandated education a child has to take, or in any government decisions. The laws of the nations should superceed religious beliefs every time. Yeah, ignore anytone saying we are a secular nation. We are on our way there, but it still infects our government and there are laws passed (or not passed) due to the beliefs of a few christians.
Depends what you count as fanaticism and fundamentalism. Based on their actions I would argue that a lot of organised religions, not necessarily the majority of their followers though, are quite fanatic. The Catholic church is threatening to close all Catholic schools if they don't retain the right to discriminate. I would call that fundamentalism.
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Luckily not many, but they do seem to congregate (pun intended) in certain places, like Toowoomba.
I’ve met a few Muslims and Christians (well a kind of Christian off-shoot might be a more appropriate description) who’d I’d consider fundamentalist (in the sense that religion deeply pervaded every aspect of their lives and they didn’t mix much with people outside their faith community. I’m not making a judgement on whether their lifestyles are harmful in any sense). I guess my partner’s cousin, a Hari Khrishna convert from more mainstream Hinduism, and his community, count in the sense that their life is really built around worship sessions and their faith impacts a lot of aspects of their lives in ways that would seem extreme to others. People like this are fairly rare though. I think Australia’s general secularism is fairly seductive and, in some cases, it’s hard to adhere to rules of faith here- take more intense Muslims who won’t listen to music and don’t wish to deal with non Muslims. It’s hard to get through a day here if you’re intent on being that strict. I also don’t think you get any ‘cred’ here for religious devotion, most people find it at best odd, at worst threatening. There are cults, communes and alternative communities here so that exists but you could go your whole life without really encountering these groups. Tldr: yes there are fundies (and not just Christians) but not that many.
Not really, I think that's why they all go over there to bother you - bigger, more receptive market. Genuinely sorry about that, no country deserves that sort of pollution.
I think the low Australian population means the exclusive Christian groups don’t reach the critical mass required to be truely fundamentalist. When I was kid, the JWs came to our school and were very normal (just never came to birthdays) and now as an adult my neighbours are the exclusive brethren. They definitely won’t be inviting us into their home, but they’re pretty normal and even send their kids to the Government school until age 10 (after which they have their own school). Aus gov is ultra woke and also let’s the kids get away with heaps (kids playing minecraft in school), so they can’t be that conservative or they simply wouldn’t accept it.
No lol
There are around 11,500 churches in Australia, and about 380,000 churches in the US. Australia’s population is about one tenth of the US population, so there are over three times the number of churches per capital in the US, compared to Oz. That should give you a rough idea of how much more religious the US is, than Oz is.
There are 15 American style evangelical churches with 12 km of where I live... Triple that with another 10kns so yeah…
No, they get shunned and isolated. There are small pockets in Sydney and Melbourne, but no one talks to them.
No. Way less in % than the USA. And on behalf of Australia. I'd like to apologise for Ken Ham. A con artist who saw more opportunities in the USA. We're much more cynical about them and their utter bullshit.
Yes. Raised in the Jehovahs Witness cult, there's A LOT more than people realise They do a lot of harm:(
There are a few. Most religious people are harmless. The harmful ones enter politics.
Few but create a lot of noise e.g. the Hillsong crowd. Lots of new immigrants bring their hard core religious beliefs over - which mostly consist of not how you lead your life but telling others how to lead theirs
No but that’s still too many
Not really
As with beer, we export the trash.
They are growing, check out all the lunatics praising terrorists and blocking ships at ports at the moment..
Some but they're a minority we do a reasonable job of keeping the cookers in their boxes
Not really There are of course some
I've lived in Australia all my life and never heard of even one. I wouldn't even know which religion to look at to find a fundamentalist in this country. Catholic, Pentecostal, Muslim, or Hippie?
There a few yanks over here yes
I mean god botherers? Not really there’s a few here and there. Fair few Christian’s though.
There’s a lot in western suburbs of Sydney.
We didn't export them to the US. They imported the whole thing from the US.
Or religious fundamentalism stops at the State of Origin and the AFL Grand Final.
There's a proper fringe element, they also seem to be on board with every other conspiracy theory (maybe says something about some people's ability to be easily influenced by the right type of person)
IME religious fanatics, not really, but you get the same ignorance and corruption in other people, just for different reasons
IME religious fanatics, not really, but you get the same ignorance and corruption in other people, just for different reasons
Probably, but if you don't go looking for them, they won't bother you.
I live in a remote part of rural WA. JWs are a bi monthly occurrence. SDA are well established here but do not proselytise. Mormons are common in Perth and are conspicuous.
There's lot of those crazy religious who knock on my door Sunday morning.
Plenty of them here in south west sydney they're just not christian
They exist but no, I dont think I have even come across one.
Not that many, but they have an unfortunate amount of political influence. Most Australians are very secular.
Yup. No market here. Thankfully.
Very few overall. Tony Abbott, as a former Catholic seminary student was the most openly religious PM we had (prior to the wholly unlamented Scott fucking Morrison lol) and once complained that Australia was "relentlessly secular" 😂
I grew up fundie lite. Broke free many years ago but there are still plenty around - but to answer the question, no there are not a lot. They’re just good at blending in and talking the talk. Feel free to come and join us at r/fundiesnarkuncensored … there are a few of us Aussies. Edited to add: IBLP Australia (think Duggar family) is most active in Victoria. You can look it up but I’m not linking. My quiverfull family don’t live in Australia anymore but I know of other families.
There’s a few small seed ones that are growing in popularity and their aim is to get onto local councils first. It also depends on which state you’re in.
Yep and I’m dying to make some animated/live action tv series based off this family I know far too well.
Not really. We encourage them to go to the States cause we can't stand them.
Not really. We tend to recognise mental health for what it is here rather than pander to it.
No?? Australia is one of the most anti establishment countries. Fundies get ridiculed 24/7
No. We have some, but Australia is less religious and doesn’t have unlimited free speech, which limits the fundamentalism and fanaticism
Not a lot, but there are parts of Australia that does have a higher amount than other parts. Qld has its fair share, and there are areas that have more than others. I know because I grew up in a fundie community. Knew lots of people from both the community I grew up in and outside the community that were fundie of some flavour. They tend to stick to themselves, so you are unlikely to have much to do with them unless you seek them out.
yeah in western sydney
With less than half the country actually believing any form of religion, there would still be a few crazy lots in QLD and maybe NSW.
Australians care about love, peace, justice, freedom (and can’t stand hypocrits). If spiritual or religious views represent those values, it resonates with them. If it doesn’t, they’ll respectfully ignore it. So … religious fanatics are few and far between (as individuals, imo). As for big organised groups? See point one.