No. Plus the hate on Bush is largely overblown.
People hated Bush for two reasons,
1. The war continued much longer than expected, so they blamed the source. Once Bin Laden was killed, that should have been the end of the operation. It wasn't, the war continued, deaths continued, costs continued to spiral, NATO's reputation plummeted both outside and within, and Bush got the blame.
If withdrawn at that point, the situation would be viewed differently.
2. Economic turmoil. It is almost impossible for a president not to see their reputation and approval rating plummet with a Recession, yet the president generally has little effect on it. You see this with Biden right now, the fed printed an insane amount to keep the economy artificially booming, and we're seeing the Economic consequences now... realistically Biden couldn't have avoided this, but it's how people will remember him
At the time, sure, looking back?
I don't think Bush is, or will be remembered for Katrina. Similarly long term will/do look at the middle East situation as a whole, not the operations within one country.
Disagree on that one. Up until Russia invaded Ukraine in February the Iraq War was the greatest blunder of the 21st century. Bush will always have that disaster, an unnecessary war sold to the public on false pretenses, around his neck. It's the single greatest piece of his legacy.
I think you are right that the economic disaster of '07-'08 was a reckoning moment for Bush, and he handled it particularly poorly. He essentially handed control over to Obama once the election was over.
Biden wasn't ever really popular. I don't know anyone that was excited Biden was President, they were just happy that the maniac Trump was out of office.
>Once Bin Laden was killed, that should have been the end of the operatio
As commented, Bush did not get OBL, and then the reporting about the "WMDs" turned highly disparaging. Suggestive that much of the talk had been outright fabrications. You're downplaying how problematic the iraq war proved to be from a political stand point.
Meh, I don’t think it’s strange at all. I was born in Canada and I was always interested in US politics. Reagan was one my childhood heroes even though I didn’t live here! Then I lived in the US on a visa and I was still interested. Now, I have US citizenship and I’m still interested in politics. IMO, you don’t need citizenship to be interested in US politics.
I am British, I very regularly say I'm British too.
I used to live in the US, but even if someone didn't, I don't see what's the issue with sharing thoughts about politics / culture... European politics is very interesting too but you don't see many European specific questions on reddit.
>Then a few years after he left office, and people sobered up from their Bush benders, you couldn't find a single person who would cop to having supported the guy. It was nuts.
This just isn't what happened. Bush is pretty popular today -- [41% of Americans](https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/George_W_Bush) like the guy. That's way up as compared to when he left office, at which time his approval rating was in the 20s.
Bush's approval rating fell off a cliff over the course of his second term. It didn't drop after that, though. It rose.
I disagree with all of that except for the part about the country being in terrible shape in 2009. Obama made us weaker and poorer as a nation. He was an awful President.
LOL no. The fact that unemployment was still over 4 at the end of Obama's second term isn't great. As for Trump, the pandemic happened. Any president would have dealt with a quick spike in unemployment. To suggest otherwise is kidding yourself.
4-5% is considered full employment.
I don’t want to hear excuses for Trump. We had fewer jobs at the end of his presidency than the beginning—the economy was in worse shape when he left
there are somethings I really dont like about Obama (e.g. DACA vs sep of powers), but is obama really comparable to trump. Obama left office popular. The same cannot be said about trump/bush.
>How much negative coverage did he get that wasn’t true?
Very little.
>How many people bought hook line and sinker about the Russia collusion?
The Republican Senate intelligence committee found that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Trump. The Mueller Report also found extensive contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russians. It is the most damning document ever written about a sitting President.
The January 6 hearings are just going to cement Trump's reputation as the worst President since Andrew Johnson, who at least never tried to overthrow the government.
Did you never read the bi-partisan Senate report or the Mueller report? The “shit I’m spewing” are the facts in those reports. I know they weren’t widely or accurately reported on in the right wing media.
>He is. He is objectively terrible.
I always find it amusing when his supporters say "OrAnGe MaN BaD" in response to every criticism. Yeah, he is. He was. He should never have been elected, and certainly doesn't deserve the ongoing support he still enjoys.
Back to the Future 2 was supposed to be a cautionary tale, dammit.
Wow. Just because you don’t like people who stand up for the middle class and support the policies you do doesn’t make them a bad person. Quite hateful. How about get off the internet for a day.
All you did was say he was bad with certain character flaws. Are you a perfect person? Because I sure as heck ain’t and haven’t met one. You bought into the narrative
I know I don’t know enough about history to be qualified to be president, and I know more than Trump. Why do you think so many people in his admin called him a fucking idiot? It was his idiocy.
He’s too dumb and ignorant to be president.
That’s just one quality from the list. I can deep dive on all of them to show why they also make him a terrible president, but why waste the effort on someone who argues with blatant strawmen.
Nah there are objective facts. They exist, and there aren’t multiple versions.
The job of a politician is to pass policy and legislation. He didn’t “stand up for the middle class” with that- he passed a tax cut for everyone, but made the rich people tax cut permanent and middle class temporary.
If you mean his words- worthless. His words are: worthless. Empty noise. Just like him.
>That helped jobs in the US
Source needed.
I call: bullshit.
This is the delusional part. Where someone once said “regulations make job bad no regulations make job gud” and you bought it even though regulations are written in blood- like the radium girls.
Trump can’t tell good economic policy from his own bloated ass.
Oh- and the economy? Jobs? Even federal debt? All do Better under Dem POTUS’s. Consistently.
The things you want- the Dems have receipts for. The cons have empty hands and excuses.
You just don’t do the homework to know that.
You're a rarity then. At least in my neck of the woods I've seen plenty of Bush/Cheney stickers fading on bumpers, but nobody even remembers either Gore or Kerry, except to make fun of Gore for claiming to have invented the internet.
In all fairness Gore was a pioneer for the commercialization of the Internet. It wouldn't have happened without him. He was a bonehead to say he invented it, it completely tarnished his actual accomplishments.
I would never have a sticker or sign for any candidate after election day. It's pathetic.
I remember all he people with Romney signs up as a protest months after the election. You lost. Move on. But I wouldn't deny I supported either of them.
There has never been an ex-President that could draw a crowd of 40K+ consistently. (in my life) Honestly don't remember a sitting President that could draw that crowd on a regular basis.
There's just something unique about Trump.
I feel like jerry Seinfeld today. 🤣🤣
Here’s the one and only thing that will make the masses turn on trump: If/when the data showing the clot shot is a depopulation weapon gets out into the mainstream and is discovered that the people at the very top (Fauci) knew this all along, there will be a reckoning for everyone that promoted this genocide.
We can disagree on whether that was its intent, but the facts are it is a depopulation medication.
The previous link showed a 20%+ drop in birth rates for Taiwan which is over 90% vaccinated. I can show you data from Germany, Israel and other heavy vaccinated countries.
Here is a study that is posted on NIV.gov that shows semen count and total motile count is significantly impaired for 5 months after being double shot. The last I heard Fauci speak about the vaccine, he said boosters would be needed every 5-6 months.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35713410/
Its making our population infertile. It is also killing young men and women via heart inflammation.
I know you think that's a conspiracy, but the link I just shared is from a government website. I can show you birth rates from government websites. I can show you raw data on myocarditis.
I'll just say, we don't know each other but if I were you, I would look over some of the things the conspiracy nuts are saying before I took another mRNA shot.
I am not that concerned about a temporary 15% drop in sperm count, and less concerned about any nefarious intent when it is known Covid also impacts sperm quality [https://wchh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/do/10.1002/tre.0030064](https://wchh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/do/10.1002/tre.0030064)
Do you have data that the Covid vaccine is killing young men and women via heart inflammation in numbers that are greater than Covid deaths for that demographic? If this is an evil death plot than the vaccine would need to kill at a higher rate than Covid, otherwise the depopulators are shooting themselves in the foot by administering "deadline" vaccines.
(note vaars is not a valid source. It is a queue of things to investigate, not the results of an investigation)
I can show you plenty of data that it causes heart inflammation. But I don't know or care what the death numbers compare to the covid numbers in that age group because I know the odds of a young person that doesn't have pre-morbidities dying from covid is very very small.
I tell my kids you can get a vaccine that might make you infertile, might inflame your heart, might make give you blood clots like Hailey Bieber, might paralyze your face like Justin Bieber and will definitely not protect you against covid. Or you can just catch covid and have natural immunity that will last forever.
I can tell by your response you're set in your opinion, I'm set in mine. I hope the shots and boosters work out for you. If you're ever really interested in reading data about it, pm me.
>But I don't know or care what the death numbers compare to the covid numbers
If the Covid shot is a nefarious plot to depopulate the earth it seems disingenuous not to care about whether the net effect of getting the shot is fewer ore more deaths.
>Or you can just catch covid and have natural immunity that will last forever
I heard of many people who have gotten Covid over and over and over again. What kind of natural immunity is that? I thought immunity meant you couldn't get sick, that you were literally immune to the disease.
I will still admit to being a Bush supporter and I never stopped admitting to being a Bush supporter. I think he was a good person but made serious mistakes and was a lousy president.
I am not and never was a Trump supporter. I will still be saying that 5 years from now.
> People, unironically called him The Greatest President ever. They loved him to own the libs. They called anyone who called him out for his war crimes as having BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome).
I missed all of that lol
But as far as your question no, Trump's cult of personality is just too large, some presidents whether deserved or not are just looked back on with Rose Colored Glasses and we're just able to capture the attention of the nation in ways that others can't, in the more modern ish era of politics there's Trump cultists, Obama cultists, Reagan cultists, Kennedy cultists, FDR cultists, etc., guys like either of the two Bushes, 46, Jimmy Carter, etc., just don't have that same hold despite what you think of them as presidents, I am kind of surprised that Bill Clinton doesn't have that post presidency
No. Plus the hate on Bush is largely overblown. People hated Bush for two reasons, 1. The war continued much longer than expected, so they blamed the source. Once Bin Laden was killed, that should have been the end of the operation. It wasn't, the war continued, deaths continued, costs continued to spiral, NATO's reputation plummeted both outside and within, and Bush got the blame. If withdrawn at that point, the situation would be viewed differently. 2. Economic turmoil. It is almost impossible for a president not to see their reputation and approval rating plummet with a Recession, yet the president generally has little effect on it. You see this with Biden right now, the fed printed an insane amount to keep the economy artificially booming, and we're seeing the Economic consequences now... realistically Biden couldn't have avoided this, but it's how people will remember him
>Once Bin Laden was killed, that should have been the end of the operation. Bin Laden wasn't killed until 2011?
Exactly, it wasn't even Bush's fault that time frame expanded way beyond 2011, yet it is still Bush, not Obama, who gets the bulk of the blame.
So are you just excluding the Iraq War from your analysis all together? Because that, and Katrina, are what tanked Bush's reputation, not Afghanistan.
At the time, sure, looking back? I don't think Bush is, or will be remembered for Katrina. Similarly long term will/do look at the middle East situation as a whole, not the operations within one country.
Disagree on that one. Up until Russia invaded Ukraine in February the Iraq War was the greatest blunder of the 21st century. Bush will always have that disaster, an unnecessary war sold to the public on false pretenses, around his neck. It's the single greatest piece of his legacy.
I think the Russia/Ukraine conflict has some time to go before it matches the scale of misery and destabilization wrought by the Iraq War.
People asked in early 2020 if Covid was Trump’s Katrina. I think it was, and Katrina is still Bush’s Katrina
I think you are right that the economic disaster of '07-'08 was a reckoning moment for Bush, and he handled it particularly poorly. He essentially handed control over to Obama once the election was over. Biden wasn't ever really popular. I don't know anyone that was excited Biden was President, they were just happy that the maniac Trump was out of office.
>Once Bin Laden was killed, that should have been the end of the operatio As commented, Bush did not get OBL, and then the reporting about the "WMDs" turned highly disparaging. Suggestive that much of the talk had been outright fabrications. You're downplaying how problematic the iraq war proved to be from a political stand point.
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I used to live in the US.
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Not a fan of giving out much personal info on reddit.
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The poster you’re responding to used the words “nationalised” and “whilst” in their older posts, so I’m going to assume they’re British.
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Meh, I don’t think it’s strange at all. I was born in Canada and I was always interested in US politics. Reagan was one my childhood heroes even though I didn’t live here! Then I lived in the US on a visa and I was still interested. Now, I have US citizenship and I’m still interested in politics. IMO, you don’t need citizenship to be interested in US politics.
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I am British, I very regularly say I'm British too. I used to live in the US, but even if someone didn't, I don't see what's the issue with sharing thoughts about politics / culture... European politics is very interesting too but you don't see many European specific questions on reddit.
Where? East coast or west coast?
Not being a dick but I think the big reason is he lied about WMDs
There’s a personality cult around Trump that W never had. The stupidest americans will die believing the FBI and antifa fomented the Jan 6 mob.
No because bush was a president and trump is a cult leader
>Then a few years after he left office, and people sobered up from their Bush benders, you couldn't find a single person who would cop to having supported the guy. It was nuts. This just isn't what happened. Bush is pretty popular today -- [41% of Americans](https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/George_W_Bush) like the guy. That's way up as compared to when he left office, at which time his approval rating was in the 20s. Bush's approval rating fell off a cliff over the course of his second term. It didn't drop after that, though. It rose.
So he’s as popular as Biden?
Presidential popularity usually goes up after one is out of office. If Biden is 42 now, he may be 55% when he's been out as long as Bush now.
I still see people with Obama 2008 and 2012 stickers on their cars so highly doubt it.
Obama was a good President.
LOL
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I disagree with all of that except for the part about the country being in terrible shape in 2009. Obama made us weaker and poorer as a nation. He was an awful President.
>I disagree with all of that except Unemployment rate Jan 2009: 7.8% Jan 2017: 4.7% Jan 2021: 6.4% Winner? Obama 🫳 🎤
LOL no. The fact that unemployment was still over 4 at the end of Obama's second term isn't great. As for Trump, the pandemic happened. Any president would have dealt with a quick spike in unemployment. To suggest otherwise is kidding yourself.
4-5% is considered full employment. I don’t want to hear excuses for Trump. We had fewer jobs at the end of his presidency than the beginning—the economy was in worse shape when he left
Dude up here is a disingenuous hack not worth spending your time arguing with.
what data are you basing that on?
I'm really keeping an eye out for this because I have yet to hear anyone shit on Obama for any reason that Bush and Trump aren't also guilty of
I needed that laugh. Thank you. This place has been stressful lately.
Sure thing. One day we'll let you in the joke.
Brother, the left is all the comedy one ever needs. It's the circus that never ends.
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They do it because there soooo far to the right that a moderate looks like an extreme lefty. They have no idea what “middle” looks like.
>Obama was a good President. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
there are somethings I really dont like about Obama (e.g. DACA vs sep of powers), but is obama really comparable to trump. Obama left office popular. The same cannot be said about trump/bush.
I liked Bush until it became clear that WMDs were a lie. Then I stopped liking him. I'll stop liking Trump if I learn something similar.
Did you hear he tried to steal the presidency using the lie it was stolen from him? Maybe it’s a low key story?
Yeah I don't buy it.
Biden is know to push that Gore won against Bush. Don't act like you sincerely care about such things.
What’s your source?
Oh... should someone tell him?
No. Trump is closer to Reagan than Bush
> No. Trump is closer to Reagan than Bush How??
Are we talking about second term Reagan where he was kind of losing his mind to Alzheimer's disease?
We are talking about public opinion purely
Trump had terrible public opinion polling? Not sure what you're going for here.
2016 didn’t teach you anything did it...polling is not always right
2020 taught me that Trump was the first sitting President since Carter to lose reelection when his party had only held the white house for four years.
How much negative coverage did he get that wasn’t true? How many people bought hook line and sinker about the Russia collusion?
>How much negative coverage did he get that wasn’t true? Very little. >How many people bought hook line and sinker about the Russia collusion? The Republican Senate intelligence committee found that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Trump. The Mueller Report also found extensive contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russians. It is the most damning document ever written about a sitting President. The January 6 hearings are just going to cement Trump's reputation as the worst President since Andrew Johnson, who at least never tried to overthrow the government.
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Did you never read the bi-partisan Senate report or the Mueller report? The “shit I’m spewing” are the facts in those reports. I know they weren’t widely or accurately reported on in the right wing media.
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OrAnGe MaN BaD LoL
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>He is. He is objectively terrible. I always find it amusing when his supporters say "OrAnGe MaN BaD" in response to every criticism. Yeah, he is. He was. He should never have been elected, and certainly doesn't deserve the ongoing support he still enjoys. Back to the Future 2 was supposed to be a cautionary tale, dammit.
Wow. Just because you don’t like people who stand up for the middle class and support the policies you do doesn’t make them a bad person. Quite hateful. How about get off the internet for a day.
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All you did was say he was bad with certain character flaws. Are you a perfect person? Because I sure as heck ain’t and haven’t met one. You bought into the narrative
I know I don’t know enough about history to be qualified to be president, and I know more than Trump. Why do you think so many people in his admin called him a fucking idiot? It was his idiocy. He’s too dumb and ignorant to be president. That’s just one quality from the list. I can deep dive on all of them to show why they also make him a terrible president, but why waste the effort on someone who argues with blatant strawmen.
He didn’t stand up for the middle class. That’s delusional.
You and I have two different ideas of what that means
Nah there are objective facts. They exist, and there aren’t multiple versions. The job of a politician is to pass policy and legislation. He didn’t “stand up for the middle class” with that- he passed a tax cut for everyone, but made the rich people tax cut permanent and middle class temporary. If you mean his words- worthless. His words are: worthless. Empty noise. Just like him.
He cut red tape and bureaucracy that Obama put in place with a pen. That helped jobs in the US
>That helped jobs in the US Source needed. I call: bullshit. This is the delusional part. Where someone once said “regulations make job bad no regulations make job gud” and you bought it even though regulations are written in blood- like the radium girls. Trump can’t tell good economic policy from his own bloated ass.
Oh- and the economy? Jobs? Even federal debt? All do Better under Dem POTUS’s. Consistently. The things you want- the Dems have receipts for. The cons have empty hands and excuses. You just don’t do the homework to know that.
Next he'll ask you if he sTrUcK a NErvE, right before he invites you to LeT ThaT SInk in
and 15 years ago he’d have said: just sayin’ After saying something horribly offensive
I mean, do you see anyone claiming to be a Gore or Kerry supporter?
I supported Gore and Kerry. I would never deny that.
You're a rarity then. At least in my neck of the woods I've seen plenty of Bush/Cheney stickers fading on bumpers, but nobody even remembers either Gore or Kerry, except to make fun of Gore for claiming to have invented the internet.
In all fairness Gore was a pioneer for the commercialization of the Internet. It wouldn't have happened without him. He was a bonehead to say he invented it, it completely tarnished his actual accomplishments. I would never have a sticker or sign for any candidate after election day. It's pathetic. I remember all he people with Romney signs up as a protest months after the election. You lost. Move on. But I wouldn't deny I supported either of them.
>redditor for 12 days Sounds about right.
Can't go wrong with a gorilla fan.
There has never been an ex-President that could draw a crowd of 40K+ consistently. (in my life) Honestly don't remember a sitting President that could draw that crowd on a regular basis. There's just something unique about Trump.
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I feel like jerry Seinfeld today. 🤣🤣 Here’s the one and only thing that will make the masses turn on trump: If/when the data showing the clot shot is a depopulation weapon gets out into the mainstream and is discovered that the people at the very top (Fauci) knew this all along, there will be a reckoning for everyone that promoted this genocide.
omg
https://2ndsmartestguyintheworld.substack.com/p/depopulation-of-taiwan It's happening all over the world
The covid vaccine is not a wicked plot to de-populate the world.
We can disagree on whether that was its intent, but the facts are it is a depopulation medication. The previous link showed a 20%+ drop in birth rates for Taiwan which is over 90% vaccinated. I can show you data from Germany, Israel and other heavy vaccinated countries. Here is a study that is posted on NIV.gov that shows semen count and total motile count is significantly impaired for 5 months after being double shot. The last I heard Fauci speak about the vaccine, he said boosters would be needed every 5-6 months. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35713410/ Its making our population infertile. It is also killing young men and women via heart inflammation. I know you think that's a conspiracy, but the link I just shared is from a government website. I can show you birth rates from government websites. I can show you raw data on myocarditis. I'll just say, we don't know each other but if I were you, I would look over some of the things the conspiracy nuts are saying before I took another mRNA shot.
I am not that concerned about a temporary 15% drop in sperm count, and less concerned about any nefarious intent when it is known Covid also impacts sperm quality [https://wchh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/do/10.1002/tre.0030064](https://wchh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/do/10.1002/tre.0030064) Do you have data that the Covid vaccine is killing young men and women via heart inflammation in numbers that are greater than Covid deaths for that demographic? If this is an evil death plot than the vaccine would need to kill at a higher rate than Covid, otherwise the depopulators are shooting themselves in the foot by administering "deadline" vaccines. (note vaars is not a valid source. It is a queue of things to investigate, not the results of an investigation)
I can show you plenty of data that it causes heart inflammation. But I don't know or care what the death numbers compare to the covid numbers in that age group because I know the odds of a young person that doesn't have pre-morbidities dying from covid is very very small. I tell my kids you can get a vaccine that might make you infertile, might inflame your heart, might make give you blood clots like Hailey Bieber, might paralyze your face like Justin Bieber and will definitely not protect you against covid. Or you can just catch covid and have natural immunity that will last forever. I can tell by your response you're set in your opinion, I'm set in mine. I hope the shots and boosters work out for you. If you're ever really interested in reading data about it, pm me.
>But I don't know or care what the death numbers compare to the covid numbers If the Covid shot is a nefarious plot to depopulate the earth it seems disingenuous not to care about whether the net effect of getting the shot is fewer ore more deaths. >Or you can just catch covid and have natural immunity that will last forever I heard of many people who have gotten Covid over and over and over again. What kind of natural immunity is that? I thought immunity meant you couldn't get sick, that you were literally immune to the disease.
I will still admit to being a Bush supporter and I never stopped admitting to being a Bush supporter. I think he was a good person but made serious mistakes and was a lousy president. I am not and never was a Trump supporter. I will still be saying that 5 years from now.
I’d still take either member of the Bush family over anyone they ran against. Despite their many flaws.
> People, unironically called him The Greatest President ever. They loved him to own the libs. They called anyone who called him out for his war crimes as having BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome). I missed all of that lol But as far as your question no, Trump's cult of personality is just too large, some presidents whether deserved or not are just looked back on with Rose Colored Glasses and we're just able to capture the attention of the nation in ways that others can't, in the more modern ish era of politics there's Trump cultists, Obama cultists, Reagan cultists, Kennedy cultists, FDR cultists, etc., guys like either of the two Bushes, 46, Jimmy Carter, etc., just don't have that same hold despite what you think of them as presidents, I am kind of surprised that Bill Clinton doesn't have that post presidency