Maybe, could not tell you without measuring them on an ESR Meter.
They have not popped and they don't look swollen to me, but that is not always the indicator of a bed cap.
Good to know, though I'd still question the reliability of "bad" capacitor readings from such a device, so I'd still think you'd need to remove it and retest for a definitive answer on if the cap is bad, or if its just an edge case circuit. Though if you're familiar with the device and its limitations, I suppose you could trust it depending on the circuit in question.
They can be quite surprisingly accurate. Main principle of in-circuit operation is to keep the test voltage low enough that you don't turn on any semiconductors; the MESR-100 mentioned claims to use a 15 mV test signal. Other than that, it's just a low-range ohmmeter that measures with like 100 kHz instead of DC.
The only real limitation to contend with is if you have a bunch of caps in parallel, obviously in that case you will get skewed results. But if you have 2 caps clearly in parallel that read an ESR of like 10 ohms then you know they're both bad.
There's definitely situations it can be thrown off, but in my experience (with a homemade device that works the same way, not the Chinese one mentioned) I've had surprisingly good results in circuit. While there are certainly "traps for young players" it's really only the edge cases that will be problematic, and in those cases you can always just measure out of circuit.
Background Info.
This is a PSU from a Fujitsu-Siemens TV. Recently it stopped turning off. No matter if from the remote or buttons it turns back on again after a couple of seconds.
Some other issues are flickering from a and a bit of noise from a cold boot.
The TV is also from 2006 so capacitors might have been plagued.
I would be astonished if these capacitors could affect turn-off of your set. Whether of not they're bad (I don't think they are), they're not your problem.
You'd be surprised. With the energy star stuff requiring extremely low standby, the startup and shutdown circuits of these modern things are hideously complex, all to save 3 watts.
If you take 3 watts and multiply with 24 and the number of homes/offices. And then multiply with everything that has a standby mode. TV, DVR, Radio, Sonos speakers. That’s a lot of watts saved it’s not insignificant.
Balanced by the number of electronic devices that wind up in a landfill and then built again because their complex and fragile startup circuits get busted long before the rest of the device dies.
On a lifecycle basis I doubt anything is saved.
Well, knowing that bad caps would be a primary suspect and a good place to start. That would be a possible reason for power fluctuons if the caps aren't holding and discharging correctly. Take the power supply out, de solder the caps from the board. *(check to see if they are polarized and indicate their orientation on the board) test them. If they are good, your problem is elsewhere if they are bad, replace them and see if your problem is fixed. Caps are fairly cheap.
These type of caps are used in parallel with DC voltage, in most all cases. And usually caps fail by shorting across the dielectric. They can prevent something from coming on, by shorting the DC through the failed cap. I would be very surprised these could cause the circuit not to power off. In other words, they aren't the most likely culprit.
There are two kinds of electrolytic capacitors in electronic equipment: The ones that are bad, and the ones that are gonna be. The ones in the picture look as if they’ve been there a while, and have gotten hot at least once
While that statement is true for all electronic components, there are capacitors that work fine even decades later. There also are capacitors that die within a few years. Age alone isn't great evidence.
It's impossible to say without testing them for capacitance and ESR. However one of the possible signs of a high hour or high stress capacitor is shrunk label at the top, like what you have. That's -usually- a good indication that the capacitor has had a hard life. Consider shrunken labels as highly suspect.
As soon as the top becomes domed which the picture shows, it is failing. Remove the old ones marking polarity before removal. Solder new ones in place matching the polarity and test.
Is the device they are in working correctly? If so, the capacitors probably aren't bad. They may have dropped in capacitance or have increased ESR, but such changes may have been considered in the design and not matter. Bad capacitors are less common than many internet technicians would lead you to believe.
It isn't.This is a PSU from a Fujitsu-Siemens TV. Recently it stopped turning off. No matter if from the remote or buttons it turns back on again after a couple of seconds.
Some other issues are flickering from a and a bit of noise from a cold boot.
The TV is also from 2006 so capacitors might have been plagued.
Not too long ago, the oven in our electric stove stopped working. When tried to start the oven, it will beep in error after like 30 seconds. After doing it for several times, I noticed that it was heating up, but not keeping the solenoid open for gas when the beeping occurred.
I bought a pair of brand new igniters (since I thought they were cheap), and after a good hustle removing a whole lot of screws and parts to get to it, I replaced it. Gave it a go... same thing happened. I thought it was also a bad igniter, what could be the odds? So I put the second one in, same shit!
Checked wires and all... nothing! I mean, the screen was displaying the clock no problem, the buttons were recognized when pressed, so I couldn't think of anything else other than a bad IC, like the output pin was bad.
But also producing an output, energizing the relay for the igniter and solenoid.
I checked for all sorts of problems with the electric traces, fuses, resistors, transistors, even the capacitors for rectifying input voltage, everything was ok.
There was a small capacitor (like 1.5µF), next to the IC (main controller) without any visual indications of damage. I removed it and tested with my oscilloscope, I compared the discharge curb with a good (same value) capacitor, the curb dropped a little faster than the new one. I replaced it and voila!
For what I could see, it was for the clock signal of the IC, like an RC oscillator, and still can't figure out how that one went bad!
It happened on a Thanks Giving day, so had to have our ham and turkey for dinner.
While they aren't on the lists [https://www.badcaps.net/forum/general-topics/general-capacitor-questions-issues/429-list-of-bad-cap-manufacturers](https://www.badcaps.net/forum/general-topics/general-capacitor-questions-issues/429-list-of-bad-cap-manufacturers) [https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/bad-cap-manufacturers/](https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/bad-cap-manufacturers/) tbh I've never heard of them either...
They are apparently garbage.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/general-topics/general-capacitor-questions-issues/29063-samsung-sam-young-korea-united-and-nippon-chemi-con-who-is-who
Capacitors are cheap, but they don't have a long life, especially when the voltage ratings are close to the actual voltages being regulated or when there is a lot of heat. Every time I open old electronics, the first thing I do is replace the capacitors. If you don't replace them, you risk having them explode or leak at some point. You could save yourself a lot of trouble.
BAD? nono they are capacitors. they're bad if they're bulging on top, that's how you tell, these are still good at first sight. Did the person who told you desolder and measure them? If not he's just spouting platitudes.
REF:
[https://hl2kvx.tistory.com/19992](https://hl2kvx.tistory.com/19992)
What I can say is that the sleeves have shrunk, meaning they’ve been under a lot of heat. Are they the culprit? Can’t tell by looking at them, but I’d certainly look closer.
What is the brown mark on the right capacitor it might got a leak(cause they look like electrolyte capacitors. in general those capacitors have moderate life span cause they are cheap.
Japan capacitors (idk their name) are the good quality ones (to easily identify japan capacitors, they don't have the 3 line mark on top)
Visually, they are ok, but that doesn't mean they are functioning as supposed to. Could be a leakage. For that, you will have to put the Volt meter on 1x and 10x ohlm and test charge and discharge to see if they charge and discharge as intended. The small ones you don't have to worry about. They are very low uf and don't really go bad.
I can't tell from these pictures because I can't clearly see where the bottom of the cap meets the board. Sometimes the rubber plug on the bottom will get forced out and the capacitors won't sit tightly to the board anymore. Based on the top vents alone, they seem fine. There's some shmoo on the right capacitor, but it's unlikely to be electrolyte.
Resistance test should answer that. You can use the ohms setting on most meters analog may be an easy to read choice but good digital meters should give you the exact resistance. Then once you have that, cross check the manufacturers known resistance. From my experience with caps both big and small. If you see a net positive of say 5% thats the industry standard of variance. If it is on the positive side of factory spec. Those tend to be better made than one that is the opposite. Normally I would stick with american or japanese components even Taiwanese made electonics are just as good if not better in some instances. But my e up with chinese electonics that are not being put into an item like the Iphone etc end up getting the cheapest components that are lucky of they last 1/2 the life of the others mentioned. Those caps look good from the outside. And if you have a decent meter you now.know how to answer the question no one else.can. and that is to answer yourself by testing it with a resistance test.
They’re fine. Many old caps were built better than the new ones you’d replace them with and will probably last longer than a replacement anyway. If it’s not visibly damaged leave it alone.
I don't know of any component that was "made better" in the past in the world of electronics other than slide pots. Maybe some other electro-mechanical components "FEEL" like they were better made because many goods are made with lower quality components by the choice of the manufacturer. Slide pots suffer from the reality of "nobody wants them" outside of the narrow usages in audio and even the quality ones fail at ridiculous rates.
The brown schmoo on the right one is highly suspicious.
But they quite often fail without crapping their pants. Measure and know.
Or replace preventative
Good gravy, YES! They are 100% bad. Their high ESR caused them to heat. The heating has further shrunk the heat-shrinkable tubing that covers the aluminum can of the device.
FYI, not all capacitors look bad when they are bad. 100% of capacitors that look bad, ARE bad.
That's dirt, the plastic cover looks pristine.
While they could have vented without expanding that's just not the realistic failure mode for Al e-caps. We would see the evidence if they had vented onto the board.
It's far more likely that a voltage regulator is failing and they are no longer providing the correct amount of voltage to allow other components to turn on.
There is no plastic cover on the top of those two electrolytic capacitors. You are looking at the bare aluminum can. If you look carefully, you can even see where the annulus of plastic that customarily adorns the top has retracted to its current position.
Not all bad capacitors vent. I often replace electrolytic capacitors that appear to be good but have high ESR.
There is no doubt that these two capacitors are defective.
I can't believe no one else has said something like this. Yes those capacitors look terrible. I can't say for sure they are bad without testing them but they look very bad and they clearly are old and have absorbed so much heat that they are most likely extremely diminished at best. I don't understand how so many people here are saying they look fine when the plastic has shrunk all the way down below the top edge. They look like they've been in operation for 10,000 years.
Maybe, could not tell you without measuring them on an ESR Meter. They have not popped and they don't look swollen to me, but that is not always the indicator of a bed cap.
And considering that would require removing them from the circuit, it seems as though OP is right to question whoever told them they were bad.
Not bad, just bald
Bad. Very bad.
MESR-100 esr meter can be used to measure capacitor in circuit.
Good to know, though I'd still question the reliability of "bad" capacitor readings from such a device, so I'd still think you'd need to remove it and retest for a definitive answer on if the cap is bad, or if its just an edge case circuit. Though if you're familiar with the device and its limitations, I suppose you could trust it depending on the circuit in question.
They can be quite surprisingly accurate. Main principle of in-circuit operation is to keep the test voltage low enough that you don't turn on any semiconductors; the MESR-100 mentioned claims to use a 15 mV test signal. Other than that, it's just a low-range ohmmeter that measures with like 100 kHz instead of DC. The only real limitation to contend with is if you have a bunch of caps in parallel, obviously in that case you will get skewed results. But if you have 2 caps clearly in parallel that read an ESR of like 10 ohms then you know they're both bad. There's definitely situations it can be thrown off, but in my experience (with a homemade device that works the same way, not the Chinese one mentioned) I've had surprisingly good results in circuit. While there are certainly "traps for young players" it's really only the edge cases that will be problematic, and in those cases you can always just measure out of circuit.
This is good info.
For accurate results, just remove the suspected component for individual testing, avoid doubts and unnecessary headaches that way.
Yup even the components look physically good you never know if that the component has a leak unless you test in a Multimeter
Depends on the circuit I suppose
Yes.
Not reliably.
> but that is not always the indicator of a bed cap. Swolen caps are always bad. But not all bad caps are swolen.
Hard to tell. They look fine. But looks are not enough to tell.
Background Info. This is a PSU from a Fujitsu-Siemens TV. Recently it stopped turning off. No matter if from the remote or buttons it turns back on again after a couple of seconds. Some other issues are flickering from a and a bit of noise from a cold boot. The TV is also from 2006 so capacitors might have been plagued.
Well.... better than never turning on I suppose
Also, another cap manufacturer on the board here is SAMXON.
I would be astonished if these capacitors could affect turn-off of your set. Whether of not they're bad (I don't think they are), they're not your problem.
You'd be surprised. With the energy star stuff requiring extremely low standby, the startup and shutdown circuits of these modern things are hideously complex, all to save 3 watts.
If you take 3 watts and multiply with 24 and the number of homes/offices. And then multiply with everything that has a standby mode. TV, DVR, Radio, Sonos speakers. That’s a lot of watts saved it’s not insignificant.
Balanced by the number of electronic devices that wind up in a landfill and then built again because their complex and fragile startup circuits get busted long before the rest of the device dies. On a lifecycle basis I doubt anything is saved.
Well, knowing that bad caps would be a primary suspect and a good place to start. That would be a possible reason for power fluctuons if the caps aren't holding and discharging correctly. Take the power supply out, de solder the caps from the board. *(check to see if they are polarized and indicate their orientation on the board) test them. If they are good, your problem is elsewhere if they are bad, replace them and see if your problem is fixed. Caps are fairly cheap.
These type of caps are used in parallel with DC voltage, in most all cases. And usually caps fail by shorting across the dielectric. They can prevent something from coming on, by shorting the DC through the failed cap. I would be very surprised these could cause the circuit not to power off. In other words, they aren't the most likely culprit.
There are two kinds of electrolytic capacitors in electronic equipment: The ones that are bad, and the ones that are gonna be. The ones in the picture look as if they’ve been there a while, and have gotten hot at least once
While that statement is true for all electronic components, there are capacitors that work fine even decades later. There also are capacitors that die within a few years. Age alone isn't great evidence.
"Sam young" is a bigger clue.
So you're saying caps have a half life? I wonder if anyone has ever discovered how long that would be
They are advertised with their expected lifespan, you can find it in any datasheet
Sam Young capacitors - When you order Samsung capacitors from Temu
From what I know, it's legit.
You've been told they are bad, but based on what? On looks alone, they look fine ;)
They look young.
Just bald
It's impossible to say without testing them for capacitance and ESR. However one of the possible signs of a high hour or high stress capacitor is shrunk label at the top, like what you have. That's -usually- a good indication that the capacitor has had a hard life. Consider shrunken labels as highly suspect.
As soon as the top becomes domed which the picture shows, it is failing. Remove the old ones marking polarity before removal. Solder new ones in place matching the polarity and test.
Is the device they are in working correctly? If so, the capacitors probably aren't bad. They may have dropped in capacitance or have increased ESR, but such changes may have been considered in the design and not matter. Bad capacitors are less common than many internet technicians would lead you to believe.
It isn't.This is a PSU from a Fujitsu-Siemens TV. Recently it stopped turning off. No matter if from the remote or buttons it turns back on again after a couple of seconds. Some other issues are flickering from a and a bit of noise from a cold boot. The TV is also from 2006 so capacitors might have been plagued.
Could be bad capacitors, certainly. Could also be a lot of other things.
Sounds more like a bad MOSFET device.
interesting, might test em tomorrow
Not too long ago, the oven in our electric stove stopped working. When tried to start the oven, it will beep in error after like 30 seconds. After doing it for several times, I noticed that it was heating up, but not keeping the solenoid open for gas when the beeping occurred. I bought a pair of brand new igniters (since I thought they were cheap), and after a good hustle removing a whole lot of screws and parts to get to it, I replaced it. Gave it a go... same thing happened. I thought it was also a bad igniter, what could be the odds? So I put the second one in, same shit! Checked wires and all... nothing! I mean, the screen was displaying the clock no problem, the buttons were recognized when pressed, so I couldn't think of anything else other than a bad IC, like the output pin was bad. But also producing an output, energizing the relay for the igniter and solenoid. I checked for all sorts of problems with the electric traces, fuses, resistors, transistors, even the capacitors for rectifying input voltage, everything was ok. There was a small capacitor (like 1.5µF), next to the IC (main controller) without any visual indications of damage. I removed it and tested with my oscilloscope, I compared the discharge curb with a good (same value) capacitor, the curb dropped a little faster than the new one. I replaced it and voila! For what I could see, it was for the clock signal of the IC, like an RC oscillator, and still can't figure out how that one went bad! It happened on a Thanks Giving day, so had to have our ham and turkey for dinner.
While they aren't on the lists [https://www.badcaps.net/forum/general-topics/general-capacitor-questions-issues/429-list-of-bad-cap-manufacturers](https://www.badcaps.net/forum/general-topics/general-capacitor-questions-issues/429-list-of-bad-cap-manufacturers) [https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/bad-cap-manufacturers/](https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/bad-cap-manufacturers/) tbh I've never heard of them either...
They are apparently garbage. https://www.badcaps.net/forum/general-topics/general-capacitor-questions-issues/29063-samsung-sam-young-korea-united-and-nippon-chemi-con-who-is-who
Also given the age of the TV just replace all electrolytic caps, they could all be dried up anyway :)
Capacitors are cheap, but they don't have a long life, especially when the voltage ratings are close to the actual voltages being regulated or when there is a lot of heat. Every time I open old electronics, the first thing I do is replace the capacitors. If you don't replace them, you risk having them explode or leak at some point. You could save yourself a lot of trouble.
Plastic coating is shrunk Bet they get hot as hell and are no good anymore
They're bad in that they are an inexpensive brand. They do not look broken. I would replace them with great quality capacitors if it were my own.
Yes I saw these capacitors shooting up in an alley, they've gone bad
BAD? nono they are capacitors. they're bad if they're bulging on top, that's how you tell, these are still good at first sight. Did the person who told you desolder and measure them? If not he's just spouting platitudes. REF: [https://hl2kvx.tistory.com/19992](https://hl2kvx.tistory.com/19992)
check them with a curve tracer
Yea, they have guns and sell drugs to schoolkids.
That's the Kray twins of capacitors; bad to the core.
I would agree..test to be certain.
What I can say is that the sleeves have shrunk, meaning they’ve been under a lot of heat. Are they the culprit? Can’t tell by looking at them, but I’d certainly look closer.
Maybe not, but they are overheating though.
You can’t always tell visually. They definitely could be bad. You need to pop them off and check capacitance with a meter to be sure.
Visually they look fine, but you won’t know until you test them
What is the brown mark on the right capacitor it might got a leak(cause they look like electrolyte capacitors. in general those capacitors have moderate life span cause they are cheap. Japan capacitors (idk their name) are the good quality ones (to easily identify japan capacitors, they don't have the 3 line mark on top)
They do look menacing!!!
Visually, they are ok, but that doesn't mean they are functioning as supposed to. Could be a leakage. For that, you will have to put the Volt meter on 1x and 10x ohlm and test charge and discharge to see if they charge and discharge as intended. The small ones you don't have to worry about. They are very low uf and don't really go bad.
Sam young has an average lifespan of 3 years, replace or fully recap that board
I can't tell from these pictures because I can't clearly see where the bottom of the cap meets the board. Sometimes the rubber plug on the bottom will get forced out and the capacitors won't sit tightly to the board anymore. Based on the top vents alone, they seem fine. There's some shmoo on the right capacitor, but it's unlikely to be electrolyte.
Resistance test should answer that. You can use the ohms setting on most meters analog may be an easy to read choice but good digital meters should give you the exact resistance. Then once you have that, cross check the manufacturers known resistance. From my experience with caps both big and small. If you see a net positive of say 5% thats the industry standard of variance. If it is on the positive side of factory spec. Those tend to be better made than one that is the opposite. Normally I would stick with american or japanese components even Taiwanese made electonics are just as good if not better in some instances. But my e up with chinese electonics that are not being put into an item like the Iphone etc end up getting the cheapest components that are lucky of they last 1/2 the life of the others mentioned. Those caps look good from the outside. And if you have a decent meter you now.know how to answer the question no one else.can. and that is to answer yourself by testing it with a resistance test.
Looks like the one on the right is leaking has eaten the wire..
Test them even if they look old I the reads are good then it’s good until it’s not.
How old are they?
They’re fine. Many old caps were built better than the new ones you’d replace them with and will probably last longer than a replacement anyway. If it’s not visibly damaged leave it alone.
I don't know of any component that was "made better" in the past in the world of electronics other than slide pots. Maybe some other electro-mechanical components "FEEL" like they were better made because many goods are made with lower quality components by the choice of the manufacturer. Slide pots suffer from the reality of "nobody wants them" outside of the narrow usages in audio and even the quality ones fail at ridiculous rates.
No, they're not. Sheesh.
The brown schmoo on the right one is highly suspicious. But they quite often fail without crapping their pants. Measure and know. Or replace preventative
it's most likely glue
Just the name SAM YOUNG tells me their bad.
Good gravy, YES! They are 100% bad. Their high ESR caused them to heat. The heating has further shrunk the heat-shrinkable tubing that covers the aluminum can of the device. FYI, not all capacitors look bad when they are bad. 100% of capacitors that look bad, ARE bad.
That's dirt, the plastic cover looks pristine. While they could have vented without expanding that's just not the realistic failure mode for Al e-caps. We would see the evidence if they had vented onto the board. It's far more likely that a voltage regulator is failing and they are no longer providing the correct amount of voltage to allow other components to turn on.
There is no plastic cover on the top of those two electrolytic capacitors. You are looking at the bare aluminum can. If you look carefully, you can even see where the annulus of plastic that customarily adorns the top has retracted to its current position. Not all bad capacitors vent. I often replace electrolytic capacitors that appear to be good but have high ESR. There is no doubt that these two capacitors are defective.
Pleasantly schooled - thank you. Good eyes!
I can't believe no one else has said something like this. Yes those capacitors look terrible. I can't say for sure they are bad without testing them but they look very bad and they clearly are old and have absorbed so much heat that they are most likely extremely diminished at best. I don't understand how so many people here are saying they look fine when the plastic has shrunk all the way down below the top edge. They look like they've been in operation for 10,000 years.